f



Marek and challenges

Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
conclusion... as irrational as it is).

Cool.

So if MAREK cannot replicate each of these on Linux then Linux is -- by his
logic -- a failure.

    <https://youtu.be/S7k_Sw48thU>: Layout
    <https://youtu.be/y51qa2ey-54>: Common Searches
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/bar512/>: Animated Chart
    <https://youtu.be/NPM_WldEBs0>: Save / Edit / Email as PDF
    <https://youtu.be/aSNpnYpmKag>: Make screencast with focus
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/sandman/sandman-archive.pdf>
    <https://youtu.be/jYqMGjGiqHg>: Make video with layers
    <https://youtu.be/HOopcb6Aybc>: Copy all URLs
    <https://youtu.be/2i7zfhWTSG0>: Resize methods
    <https://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>: Basic image stuff in WP
    <https://youtu.be/331vMJGm8CY>: Owls' recipe download / conversion
    <https://youtu.be/ymE184jYNnk>: OWl's reference terminal windows

Come on, Marek... it is now up to you. If you fail Linux will be deemed a
failure [1].

So come on, Marek, let us see how you respond to the crap you spew. I bet
you run away crying.



----------




[1] Of course, with my being honest, I want to make it VERY clear that this
is a STUPID way of judging an OS. What Marek can or cannot do is of no
consequence. Though, well, it is true most of these cannot be done as well
on Linux (though some can be). But that is another topic. This is really
just to rub Marek's nose in his own mess. :)


-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 2:27:42 AM
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The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:

> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
> conclusion... as irrational as it is).

Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got 
your ass handed several times the last weeks?
0
Peter
12/23/2016 10:11:27 AM
On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
> conclusion... as irrational as it is).

Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies. 

Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition to
do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition. 

Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 2:40:21 PM
On 2016-12-23, Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>
>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>
> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got 
> your ass handed several times the last weeks?

+1

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 2:40:42 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:42 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:

> On 2016-12-23, Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>>
>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>
>> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got 
>> your ass handed several times the last weeks?
> 
> +1

Fact.
He changes the rules as he continues to lose and then refers back to
those changed rules as if it was the original challenge.

-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench
0
flatfish
12/23/2016 2:44:20 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:

> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
> 
> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies. 
> 
> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition to
> do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition. 
> 
> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA

The way I see it is this is very simple.

1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
errors etc when performing typical tasks.
That is his daily mantra.

2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.
So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
snit will object and declare victory.
It's a waste of time.

3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
same end result would be fine.

And that's the way I see this.
Quite simple.

-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench
0
flatfish
12/23/2016 2:51:57 PM
On 2016-12-23, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:42 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-23, Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>>>
>>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>>
>>> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got 
>>> your ass handed several times the last weeks?
>> 
>> +1
>
> Fact.
> He changes the rules as he continues to lose and then refers back to
> those changed rules as if it was the original challenge.

Exactly. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 3:01:37 PM
On 2016-12-23, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>> 
>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies. 
>> 
>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition to
>> do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition. 
>> 
>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA
>
> The way I see it is this is very simple.
>
> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
> That is his daily mantra.
>
> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
> don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
> going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
> indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.
> So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
> other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
> what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
> it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
> snit will object and declare victory.
> It's a waste of time.
>
> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
> again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
> same end result would be fine.

Any method at all. GUI, Shell, AppleScript, App he bought in the appStore.
ANYTHING at all. A vendor app. Anything. 

> And that's the way I see this.
> Quite simple.

Yes, quite simple. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 3:13:49 PM
flatfish+++ wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that
>>> HE wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this
>>> is somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is
>>> his conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>> 
>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
>> 
>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition
>> to do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition.
>> 
>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA
> 
> The way I see it is this is very simple.
> 
> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
> That is his daily mantra.
> 
> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
> don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
> going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
> indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.

It is. It is far beyond completely idiotic.
Nobody in his right mind would waste a second on that shite

> So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
> other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
> what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
> it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
> snit will object and declare victory.
> It's a waste of time.

It is. When he was shown that linux PDF capabilities blows apples "PDF-
services" rigth out of the water he went ballistic. Now he claims that that 
thread was showing how "inferior" the linux capabilities are, claiming the 
opposite of the result in that thread

> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
> again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
> same end result would be fine.
> 
> And that's the way I see this.
> Quite simple.
> 

It is simple. He has never been asked to run any scripts. And that lying 
imbecile now claims that OSX will likely be able to do that because Marek 
has *not* said that it can't is dishonesty on a new level. It is quite 
simple: Marek has never run those scripts on a Mac, so he simply can't know. 
To come to the conclusion Snit Michael Glasser did you have to be  extremely 
dishonest swine

0
Peter
12/23/2016 4:01:53 PM
On 23/12/2016 14:40 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, Marek Novotny posted:

> On 2016-12-23, Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>>
>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>
>> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got 
>> your ass handed several times the last weeks?
>
> +1

+ 1,000

-- 
Now, let's get out there & do it to them before they do it to us!
Sergeant Jablonski - Hill Street Blues

0
William
12/23/2016 4:05:00 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 7:40:28 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that=
 HE
> > wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
> > somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
> > conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>=20
> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.=20

"You throw "it" in my face... something which you can do, which I never sai=
d
I could do, which you have admitted requires you to have some host I do not=
,
and for which I did not do." - Snit

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/4cfPjWYz=
U1U/IhqmUlfIDQAJ>

Why categorize the entire episode as one lie when it encompasses several? F=
or example, his claim of requiring him to use a fixed host is a lie; that i=
t was made in the larger context of another lie shouldn't affect the overal=
l number of his lies when tallying.

> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition t=
o
> do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition.=20
>=20
> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology?
> Why do you focus on me so much, making up fan fiction.

Hehe ;) When he's closer to staying on topic his other focus is on the 'GUI=
',  which, despite his confusion, is not the same thing as 'the desktop'. N=
otably, he approaches things from the viewpoint of the "average" user (mark=
etshare arguments abound). His problem is that some of his challenges are b=
eyond the "average user", as evidenced by his forays into scripting. Someti=
mes he purposefully blurs the lines on things, I'm not sure that's the case=
 with the challenges, though, it might be... but I suspect he just overstep=
ped without realizing how idiotic he appears.

> Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA

You have it all "wrong", it's everyone else who is begging for his attentio=
n <eyeroll>.
0
Steve
12/23/2016 4:49:14 PM
On 12/23/16, 8:13 AM, in article
pJOdnV204cuwosDFnZ2dnUU7-K3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-23, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>> 
>>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
>>> 
>>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition to
>>> do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
>>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
>>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
>>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
>>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
>>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition.
>>> 
>>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
>>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA
>> 
>> The way I see it is this is very simple.
>> 
>> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
>> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
>> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
>> That is his daily mantra.
>> 
>> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
>> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
>> don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
>> going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
>> indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.
>> So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
>> other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
>> what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
>> it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
>> snit will object and declare victory.
>> It's a waste of time.
>> 
>> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
>> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
>> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
>> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
>> again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
>> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
>> same end result would be fine.
> 
> Any method at all. GUI, Shell, AppleScript, App he bought in the appStore.
> ANYTHING at all. A vendor app. Anything.
> 
>> And that's the way I see this.
>> Quite simple.
> 
> Yes, quite simple.

  Marek 1:
    -----
    Doesn't matter if you can do it.
    -----

  Marek 2 (from the same post!):
    -----
    I don't have to tell you if the Mac can or can't do this.
    That's your job. ... You present for the Mac side, if
    you can. If you can't then you lose. That simple.
    -----

All comes down to your ego... you did something I cannot. Cool for you. In
your mind I "lost" because *I* did not do it. Awesome! You get your gold
star and I do not even get a bronze! So very proud of you! You are a very,
very special snowflake indeed!

  Marek:
    -----
    | But not even YOU have suggested it would not work just fine under
    | macOS.
    I never opined.
    -----

Curious, any desktop tasks you think Linux handles better than the
competition?



-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:09:17 PM
On 12/23/16, 8:01 AM, in article
CradnVXC8-PMocDFnZ2dnUU7-QWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-23, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:42 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-12-23, Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>>>> 
>>>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>>> 
>>>> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got
>>>> your ass handed several times the last weeks?
>>> 
>>> +1
>> 
>> Fact.
>> He changes the rules as he continues to lose and then refers back to
>> those changed rules as if it was the original challenge.
> 
> Exactly. 

Nope. The question was about what things you think desktop Linux handles
better than the competition.

You changed the topic to your ego: what can YOU do that *I* cannot, because,
of course, you put me on a tech pedestal and in your mind I am the ONE to
"beat," even in areas I never claimed to have any expertise in.

And it is why you refuse to answer these simple questions:

1) Do you admit my tasks were generally easy (and you stated so)?

2) Do you admit you worked on one (the animated bar graph)?

3) Do you admit you failed to offer a completed example of the task?

4) Do you admit you brought up your VPN bash script?

5) Do you admit I failed to replicate it or its functionality?

6) Did you ever say it would fail on macOS (I do not think you did!)
 
7) Do you admit you started your script a months before the challenge?

8) Do you admit you posted it publicly and got feedback?

9) Do you admit you spoke of the Mac community failing your task?

At this point in your trolling you know you have completely destroyed
yourself. So do the others who troll COLA... hence why they are going to
come out in force to pretend to defend you. They know you cannot defend
yourself. You made a complete ass of yourself.

Again.


-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:11:42 PM
On 12/23/16, 7:51 AM, in article ec4s0dF7lg0U1@mid.individual.net,
"flatfish+++" <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>> 
>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
>> 
>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition to
>> do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition.
>> 
>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA
> 
> The way I see it is this is very simple.

And likely not accurate at all. But let us see.

> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
> That is his daily mantra.

OK, I focus on productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction and have asked
people to show where they think Linux handles desktop tasks better than the
competition. Fair enough.

> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it.

Not quite. Here was the task:

* From a single online recipe (or art project, lesson plan, online map,
whatever) save it and email a PDF version where you add notes to it. Now I
know this can be done on Linux; save, open, edit, email. Just curious to see
how you people would generally do it and how streamlined the workflow would
be. A couple ways I might: <https://youtu.be/NPM_WldEBs0>.

> I don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not going to
> read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking indicates THAT
> particular challenge is still open. So let's say snit won that one although
> I'm fairly certain there are other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the
> problem is no matter what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end
> result, if it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's
> version, snit will object and declare victory. It's a waste of time.

Not even close to true. People can do it however they want... in fact, THAT
is the idea... for people to do it in DIFFERENT ways and show how THEY do
it. That way we can learn DIFFERENT ways from DIFFERENT people.

You have it completely backward and wrong there. Completely.

And I never said anyone lost or anyone won. I have noted that none of the
"advocates" have taken on this simple task -- a task Marek and others have
noted it simple. They troll me non-stop so it is not a matter of not caring.
They (as a group) simply cannot find a way to do the task where Linux looks
good. Fine. No winning. No losing. We now just know a simple task that by
all appearances is not handled as well on Linux but nobody is saying cannot
be done.

Cool.

> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.

To a point right: he made it about HIM vs. ME. About his ego. Sure. Meaning
he left the topic of what each environment can do behind. Heck, he even
provided a solution which not even he says does not work on the competition.

And on that he got his gold star! He did something I cannot do. I do not
even have a VPN host... and sure as hell not going to try to get one for
him. So, boom, just on that he "wins" -- he has a VPN host. Even if I did I
likely could not replicate his script (with bash or other technologies).
Cool. He can call that a double win -- he "beat" me twice there. He has a
VPN host AND he was able to do a task *I* could not (nor anyone else in COLA
that we know of). His ego is safe!

He could have just stopped there and not pretended he was actually looking
at what the environments could do. He had his gold stars! But he decided to
lie to, I don't know, get more gold stars?

He made up a story about how Linux handles this better even though there is
no reason to think other environments do not handle his script just fine. In
fact, even he says he is not claiming Linux handles this better or even that
his OWN solution would not work fine elsewhere.

Boom! He went into la-la land and tried to pretend his ego-trolling was
about the question asked. Nope. He lied.

> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it.

Um, what? Really, what the hell are you talking about. Rules? Whining that I
cannot duplicate it? Really...

The "rules" I have been discussing: what does desktop Linux handle better
than the competition. So far NONE of this has to do with that because not
even Marek claims HIS solution would not work on the competition (no less
any other solution, but that is the only known one).

And whining about how I cannot do it... what? We ALL can do things others
cannot. No big deal. Marek wants me to be ashamed and is all proud he "beat"
me as he put me on a tech pedestal as the ONE to "beat." Seems silly to me
but whatever. In a way it is a compliment as people see me as so
knowledgeable about ALL areas of tech, but I have assured him repeatedly I
am NOT! 

> And again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the same end
> result would be fine.

Correct. He never defined any given method... but his method would likely
work fine on the competition and not even he says it would not. He has a Mac
and his VPN host to test it... and by now surely has. If it did not work he
would have let us know. No doubt.

> And that's the way I see this.
> Quite simple.

Sure: you assume things which are not true. Not surprising at all.


-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:29:40 PM
On 12/23/16, 7:44 AM, in article ec4ri4F7hslU1@mid.individual.net,
"flatfish+++" <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:42 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-12-23, Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>>> 
>>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>> 
>>> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got
>>> your ass handed several times the last weeks?
>> 
>> +1
> 
> Fact.
> He changes the rules as he continues to lose and then refers back to
> those changed rules as if it was the original challenge.

The initial question: what desktop tasks does Linux handle better than the
competition.

So far not even Marek claims this task fits that criteria.


  Marek:
    -----
    | But not even YOU have suggested it would not work just fine under
    | macOS.
    I never opined.
    -----

-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:30:25 PM
On 12/23/16, 7:40 AM, in article
EZSdnbN_3IX3qsDFnZ2dnUU7-W2dnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-23, Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>> 
>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>> 
>> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got
>> your ass handed several times the last weeks?
> 
> +1

  Marek 1:
    -----
    Doesn't matter if you can do it.
    -----

  Marek 2 (from the same post!):
    -----
    I don't have to tell you if the Mac can or can't do this.
    That's your job. ... You present for the Mac side, if
    you can. If you can't then you lose. That simple.
    -----

All comes down to your ego... you did something I cannot. Cool for you. In
your mind I "lost" because *I* did not do it. Awesome! You get your gold
star and I do not even get a bronze! So very proud of you! You are a very,
very special snowflake indeed!

  Marek:
    -----
    | But not even YOU have suggested it would not work just fine under
    | macOS.
    I never opined.
    -----

Curious, any desktop tasks you think Linux handles better than the
competition?



-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:30:35 PM
On 12/23/16, 7:40 AM, in article
EZSdnbB_3IXIqsDFnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
> 
> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
> 
> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition to
> do what I did. 

Wait... not it is not just that the Mac can do it but that it is easier.

As far as I know it is not.

Done. 

> No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would you need that old BASH
> scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain. Use the nectar of the Gods if
> you like. I chose the bash shell and OpenVPN, both open source. But you can
> use any VPN, closed or open. Any util from the Apple Store. Any app you
> purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this
> easier than the competition.
> 
> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA

And again you go into your ego... putting me on a tech pedestal as the ONE
to beat. Um, OK. You did it. Hazzzah! You have your gold star!

Curious, any desktop tasks you think Linux handles better than the
competition?


-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:32:52 PM
On 12/23/16, 3:11 AM, in article o3it5o$m44$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
> 
>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
> 
> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got
> your ass handed several times the last weeks?

In a way you cannot describe. Whatever. Not interested in the ego-pusturing
of those of you who troll.


-- 
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The
foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them
as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." --
Leviticus 19:33-34


0
Snit
12/23/2016 5:33:21 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 10:29:47 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote:

(snip incessant whining)

> In a way it is a compliment as people see me as so knowledgeable about 
> ALL areas of tech, but I have assured him repeatedly I am NOT! 

 <https://youtu.be/nWSiBgdrvGc?t=13> 
0
Steve
12/23/2016 5:46:24 PM
On 2016-12-23, Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that
>>>> HE wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this
>>>> is somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is
>>>> his conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>>> 
>>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
>>> 
>>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition
>>> to do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
>>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
>>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
>>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
>>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
>>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition.
>>> 
>>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
>>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA
>> 
>> The way I see it is this is very simple.
>> 
>> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
>> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
>> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
>> That is his daily mantra.
>> 
>> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
>> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
>> don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
>> going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
>> indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.
>
> It is. It is far beyond completely idiotic.
> Nobody in his right mind would waste a second on that shite
>
>> So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
>> other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
>> what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
>> it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
>> snit will object and declare victory.
>> It's a waste of time.
>
> It is. When he was shown that linux PDF capabilities blows apples "PDF-
> services" rigth out of the water he went ballistic. Now he claims that that 
> thread was showing how "inferior" the linux capabilities are, claiming the 
> opposite of the result in that thread
>
>> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
>> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
>> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
>> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
>> again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
>> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
>> same end result would be fine.
>> 
>> And that's the way I see this.
>> Quite simple.
>> 
>
> It is simple. He has never been asked to run any scripts. And that lying 
> imbecile now claims that OSX will likely be able to do that because Marek 
> has *not* said that it can't is dishonesty on a new level. It is quite 
> simple: Marek has never run those scripts on a Mac, so he simply can't know. 
> To come to the conclusion Snit Michael Glasser did you have to be  extremely 
> dishonest swine

One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen if
the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
for himself. I already know what the outcome will be. 

As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box. 

While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL. 

Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
because that will not have been EASIER than what I did. 

All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
competition. 

No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 5:57:46 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-23, Peter K=C3=B6hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> > flatfish+++ wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> >>=20
> >>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script t=
hat
> >>>> HE wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, th=
is
> >>>> is somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this i=
s
> >>>> his conclusion... as irrational as it is).
> >>>=20
> >>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
> >>>=20
> >>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competiti=
on
> >>> to do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why wo=
uld
> >>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain=
..
> >>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
> >>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. A=
ny
> >>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Gue=
ss
> >>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition=
..
> >>>=20
> >>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so mu=
ch,
> >>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAH=
AHA
> >>=20
> >> The way I see it is this is very simple.
> >>=20
> >> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
> >> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
> >> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
> >> That is his daily mantra.
> >>=20
> >> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
> >> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
> >> don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
> >> going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
> >> indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.
> >
> > It is. It is far beyond completely idiotic.
> > Nobody in his right mind would waste a second on that shite
> >
> >> So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
> >> other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
> >> what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
> >> it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
> >> snit will object and declare victory.
> >> It's a waste of time.
> >
> > It is. When he was shown that linux PDF capabilities blows apples "PDF-
> > services" rigth out of the water he went ballistic. Now he claims that =
that=20
> > thread was showing how "inferior" the linux capabilities are, claiming =
the=20
> > opposite of the result in that thread
> >
> >> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
> >> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
> >> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
> >> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
> >> again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
> >> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
> >> same end result would be fine.
> >>=20
> >> And that's the way I see this.
> >> Quite simple.
> >>=20
> >
> > It is simple. He has never been asked to run any scripts. And that lyin=
g=20
> > imbecile now claims that OSX will likely be able to do that because Mar=
ek=20
> > has *not* said that it can't is dishonesty on a new level. It is quite=
=20
> > simple: Marek has never run those scripts on a Mac, so he simply can't =
know.=20
> > To come to the conclusion Snit Michael Glasser did you have to be  extr=
emely=20
> > dishonest swine
>=20
> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen if
> the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
> Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
> for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.=20
>=20
> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.=20

I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I assume i=
t'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.

> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL.=20
>=20
> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
> competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
> in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
> because that will not have been EASIER than what I did.=20
>=20
> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
> competition.=20
>=20
> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge.=20

IRC, he failed my troubleshooting challenge to look at a web page and descr=
ibe a simple issue... he's kicking up at least as much of a fuss with this =
one, if not more. Good job ;)
0
Steve
12/23/2016 6:04:10 PM
On 12/23/16, 10:57 AM, in article
TtKdndKcGOYH-MDFnZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

.... 
>> It is simple. He has never been asked to run any scripts. And that lying
>> imbecile now claims that OSX will likely be able to do that because Marek
>> has *not* said that it can't is dishonesty on a new level. It is quite
>> simple: Marek has never run those scripts on a Mac, so he simply can't know.
>> To come to the conclusion Snit Michael Glasser did you have to be  extremely
>> dishonest swine
> 
> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen if
> the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
> Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
> for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.
> 
> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
> 
> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL.
> 
> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
> competition. And I believe it does.

You are FINALLY letting go of your ego war and saying that you think this is
easier on Linux. 

FINALLY!

Took you a long time and I am proud of you. Seriously, this clearly has been
hard for you to let go of your ego-focus and talk about the environments.
Well done!

If you can show where you made this claim before and I missed it I will
certainly owe you an apology (though if you did make it you did so buried in
so much nonsense about your ego it was easy to miss).

> Snit could hire the best programmer in the world, and I believe he'd still
> lose the challenge. Simply because that will not have been EASIER than what I
> did. 

I am sincerely proud of you for finally getting to this point!

> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
> competition. 

Excellent! It took you MONTHS but you finally answered the question!

Sincere thank you. This is a task you think is easier on Linux than on the
competition... you have now FINALLY explained why you think that is the case
AND as far as we know there is no contrary evidence.

Wonderful! 

So I can include it in the lost of "tasks" I sometimes share can you show a
simple video demonstrating it?

    <https://youtu.be/S7k_Sw48thU>: Layout
    <https://youtu.be/y51qa2ey-54>: Common Searches
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/bar512/>: Animated Chart
    <https://youtu.be/NPM_WldEBs0>: Save / Edit / Email as PDF
    <https://youtu.be/aSNpnYpmKag>: Make screencast with focus
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/sandman/sandman-archive.pdf>
    <https://youtu.be/jYqMGjGiqHg>: Make video with layers
    <https://youtu.be/HOopcb6Aybc>: Copy all URLs
    <https://youtu.be/2i7zfhWTSG0>: Resize methods
    <https://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>: Basic image stuff in WP
    <https://youtu.be/331vMJGm8CY>: Owls' recipe download / conversion
    <https://youtu.be/ymE184jYNnk>: OWl's reference terminal windows

If not, fine... for the text list I will add it to the ones I sometimes copy
and paste:

* From a single online recipe (or art project, lesson plan, online map,
whatever) save it and email a PDF version where you add notes to it. Now I
know this can be done on Linux; save, open, edit, email. Just curious to see
how you people would generally do it and how streamlined the workflow would
be. A couple ways I might: <https://youtu.be/NPM_WldEBs0>.

* Make a video, as Owl and I have been, but with cursor replacement /
resizing (post production), window highlighting, zooming, arbitrary area
highlighting. For me these were done just to show something else:
<https://youtu.be/aSNpnYpmKag>. I have many other options but picked these
because they fit the real-world example I did shortly before coming up with
the "challenge."

* Getting a WayBackArchive page and getting images of all links, the HTML
validation and CSS validation from W3.org, and a active link to the archive
page, as I did here (does not have to look the exact same, of course):
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/sandman/sandman-archive.pdf>.

* Download as PDFs all the recipes from the homepage of allrecipes.com (Owl
is the one who suggested this). I did several versions... here is one:
<https://youtu.be/_J4PppWroWY>. Mine not only worked, but the PDF had
selectable text and allowed me to do quick searches on ingredients and the
like... something Owl was never able to do on Linux. Worked so well that he
and Peter K�hlmann insisted it must have been faked.

* Starting with a spreadsheet 3D chart, have it be animated, including with
the top range expanding as needed and a color change with the bar. More
details here: <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/bar512> (also shows Owl's
solution).

* Do a search for a number of names (or other terms) and each letter of the
alphabet to see what the common searches are for each letter. My results are
here: <https://youtu.be/QmUPMhiyIKE>. Owl also presented a solution for
Linux (and while he never showed the script running, no reason to think it
would not work well). Peter K�hlmann failed to recognize it as a repetitive
/ scripting challenge and thought it was about special search results per
OS. Weird.

* Make a video with an image appears to stay still even as the video bounces
some, and have the image disappear in a come-and-go fashion sort of like
seen on Doctor Who, and add multiple layers of sound. My end result here:
<https://youtu.be/jYqMGjGiqHg>.

I am happy to include in your task that it is yours and that nobody else was
able to show an easier way. Awesome!

> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge.

Not interested in your pissing contest.



-- 
"There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major
reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to
be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."
-- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/23/2016 6:11:19 PM
On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2016-12-23, Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> > flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:40:21 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On 2016-12-23, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that
>> >>>> HE wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this
>> >>>> is somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is
>> >>>> his conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>> >>> 
>> >>> Nope, added another lie of michael glassers endless quotable lies.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Your task is you use your Mac to show it is easier than the competition
>> >>> to do what I did. No scripting required. It's a mac after all. Why would
>> >>> you need that old BASH scripting thing... Use the GUI. Use your brain.
>> >>> Use the nectar of the Gods if you like. I chose the bash shell and
>> >>> OpenVPN, both open source. But you can use any VPN, closed or open. Any
>> >>> util from the Apple Store. Any app you purchase. ANYTHING at all. Guess
>> >>> Glasser can't show how the Mac makes this easier than the competition.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Hey Michael, why not talk of technology? Why do you focus on me so much,
>> >>> making up fan fiction. Sure do beg for my attention every day. HAHHAHAHA
>> >> 
>> >> The way I see it is this is very simple.
>> >> 
>> >> 1. Snit yapping about people demonstrating how Linux is better than
>> >> OSX or Windows in terms of productivity, ease of use, reduction in
>> >> errors etc when performing typical tasks.
>> >> That is his daily mantra.
>> >> 
>> >> 2. He posted some kind of hokey recipe manipulation routine that he
>> >> did with his Mac and asked the Linux community to duplicate it. I
>> >> don't believe anyone even tried. Not sure on that though as I'm not
>> >> going to read 2000 posts to find out. The fact he's still squawking
>> >> indicates THAT particular challenge is still open.
>> >
>> > It is. It is far beyond completely idiotic.
>> > Nobody in his right mind would waste a second on that shite
>> >
>> >> So let's say snit won that one although I'm fairly certain there are
>> >> other ways of accomplishing what snit did but the problem is no matter
>> >> what anyone posts, even if it accomplishes the same end result, if
>> >> it's not EXACTLY, down to the keystroke identical to snit's version,
>> >> snit will object and declare victory.
>> >> It's a waste of time.
>> >
>> > It is. When he was shown that linux PDF capabilities blows apples "PDF-
>> > services" rigth out of the water he went ballistic. Now he claims that that 
>> > thread was showing how "inferior" the linux capabilities are, claiming the 
>> > opposite of the result in that thread
>> >
>> >> 3. Marek posted his vpn manipulation routine demonstrating something
>> >> Linux does well and challenged snit to duplicate it under OSX.
>> >> At that point snit cranked up his circus, his snipping and changing
>> >> the rules, his whining and so forth because he can't duplicate it. And
>> >> again, as I'm reading it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there is no
>> >> criteria to write scripts. Any method as long as it accomplishes the
>> >> same end result would be fine.
>> >> 
>> >> And that's the way I see this.
>> >> Quite simple.
>> >> 
>> >
>> > It is simple. He has never been asked to run any scripts. And that lying 
>> > imbecile now claims that OSX will likely be able to do that because Marek 
>> > has *not* said that it can't is dishonesty on a new level. It is quite 
>> > simple: Marek has never run those scripts on a Mac, so he simply can't know. 
>> > To come to the conclusion Snit Michael Glasser did you have to be  extremely 
>> > dishonest swine
>> 
>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen if
>> the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
>> Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
>> for himself. I already know what the outcome will be. 
>> 
>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
>> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box. 
>
> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.

No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?

>> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
>> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
>> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
>> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
>> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
>> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL. 
>> 
>> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
>> competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
>> in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
>> because that will not have been EASIER than what I did. 
>> 
>> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
>> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
>> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
>> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
>> competition. 
>> 
>> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge. 
>
> IRC, he failed my troubleshooting challenge to look at a web page and
> describe a simple issue... he's kicking up at least as much of a fuss
> with this one, if not more. Good job ;)

Hey, I'm just showing that ancient command line is making a Monkey out
his GUI. My solution by the way is super portable to other Linux
distros. For example, under Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Mint,
Debian, Manjaro, fedora and others I have needed ZERO modifications. I
just execute my script AS IS on other distros and it works just fine. 

If I want add this function to my other machines, I merely copy the
script to the other machine. That's it. EASY. 

That's Linux making this EASIER than the competition. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 6:24:56 PM
On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen if
>>> the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
>>> Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
>>> for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.
>>> 
>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
>>> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>> 
>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.
> 
> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?

If it was with common software I think one could argue against that... but
in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not common.

It took you months but I think you FINALLY got to the point and have
explained why you think this is easier on Linux. I commend you for it.

>>> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
>>> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
>>> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
>>> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
>>> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
>>> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL.
>>> 
>>> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
>>> competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
>>> in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
>>> because that will not have been EASIER than what I did.
>>> 
>>> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
>>> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
>>> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
>>> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
>>> competition. 
>>> 
>>> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge.
>> 
>> IRC, he failed my troubleshooting challenge to look at a web page and
>> describe a simple issue... he's kicking up at least as much of a fuss
>> with this one, if not more. Good job ;)

That is just utter rubbish... to the point I have no clue what page he even
means. Maybe one where he said it worked in one browser but not another and
I showed the results were the EXACT same -- and useless (menus did not work
and the page did nothing of value in either browser)? I think he later said
there was some error the end user would NEVER see and wanted me to explain
it to him or something. Mostly saw his posts through quotes so maybe there
is more to it... whatever. Not giving him more attention over it. THAT is
his full goal in life.

> Hey, I'm just showing that ancient command line is making a Monkey out
> his GUI.

Wait: so now it is back to your ego and tying it to tech.

You act like I am against the command line... which is just weird. Heck,
while I have been speaking well of the CLI since the 1980s the oldest I can
find to show is this:

  <http://goo.gl/EDip> Jul 19 1995
    ----- 
    But UNIX does have some advantages over the Mac... a CLI
    would be a great addition to the Mac.  I would say that
    between Mac and UNIX you have the best operating systems
    around.
    ----- 

  <http://goo.gl/vrLf> Aug 10 1995
    ----- 
    The Mac is not the end all in computer technology.  Where it
    fails, UNIX excels. Between the two, there is almost no task
    that computers would be used for that can not be done.  And
    one or the other will beat the competition in almost every
    area. 
    ----- 
 
You act like I am somehow opposed to the use of the command line or
scripting with it. Just weird.

> My solution by the way is super portable to other Linux distros. For example,
> under Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Manjaro, fedora and
> others I have needed ZERO modifications. I just execute my script AS IS on
> other distros and it works just fine.
> 
> If I want add this function to my other machines, I merely copy the script to
> the other machine. That's it. EASY.
> 
> That's Linux making this EASIER than the competition.

I am sincerely proud of you for at least adding to your ego-trip an actual
focus on the tech you were asked to respond to.

So now the question is if you want it added to my list of tasks and if so if
you can help with a simple explanation of it and re-link to the video you
said you posted of it working. I will add your task to the lists I sometimes
share.


My current write-up:

* Write a script that monitors VPN connections so that if the connection
terminates the applications using that connection also terminate. Also have
the script detect apps not wanted to go over the VPN and end the connection
when appropriate. Challenge from Marek -- and so far he is the only one to
say he has completed it (though I cannot find the video showing it).


Will add a link to the video if you point me to it. Also happy to re-word to
make sure it is fair and accurate (though let us keep it brief!)



-- 
"This doesn't mean our work is over; most GNU/Linux distros today contain
nonfree software, and there are more things that we expect a system to do."
-- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/23/2016 6:35:44 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 11:25:02 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:

(snip)

> >> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
> >> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box. 
> >
> > I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
> > assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.
> 
> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?

Possibly true but I'd say that depends on what kind of 3rd party GUI apps exist. Being under the realm of IT (and 'IT Masters')  I'm not familiar with this field so I have no idea what's out there.

> >> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
> >> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
> >> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
> >> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
> >> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
> >> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL. 
> >> 
> >> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
> >> competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
> >> in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
> >> because that will not have been EASIER than what I did. 
> >> 
> >> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
> >> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
> >> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
> >> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
> >> competition. 
> >> 
> >> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge. 

Probably, but I can safely say: No matter what he does he'll continue to throw a tantrum.

> > IRC, he failed my troubleshooting challenge to look at a web page and
> > describe a simple issue... he's kicking up at least as much of a fuss
> > with this one, if not more. Good job ;)
> 
> Hey, I'm just showing that ancient command line is making a Monkey out
> his GUI. My solution by the way is super portable to other Linux
> distros. For example, under Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Mint,
> Debian, Manjaro, fedora and others I have needed ZERO modifications. I
> just execute my script AS IS on other distros and it works just fine. 

I'd argue that portability goes under the headings of 'efficiency' and 'productivity'; to that I'd add being able to tweak the code gives one an edge on 'error reduction'.

> If I want add this function to my other machines, I merely copy the
> script to the other machine. That's it. EASY. 
> 
> That's Linux making this EASIER than the competition. 

In this instance, no doubt... but unless I'm missing something I don't see why it couldn't be run on his Mac... other than his inability to get it to, obviously.
0
Steve
12/23/2016 6:47:42 PM
The lying imbecile Snit wrote:

> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen
>>>> if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
>>>> Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
>>>> for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.
>>>> 
>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if
>>>> you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>> 
>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.
>> 
>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
>> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
>> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
>> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that... but
> in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not common.

To imbeciles like you.

To a lot of people it is extremely common
0
Peter
12/23/2016 7:24:33 PM
On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 11:25:02 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
>> >> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
>> >> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box. 
>> >
>> > I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>> > assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.
>> 
>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
>> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
>> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
>> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>
> Possibly true but I'd say that depends on what kind of 3rd party GUI
> apps exist. Being under the realm of IT (and 'IT Masters')  I'm not
> familiar with this field so I have no idea what's out there.

Absolutely depends. For example, if there was some util app out there
that does all this for you and is readily available, that would be
better. But there will be no such app. The reason why is the varying
features that the script affords me. You might find an app that does one
part of this script, but you won't find an app that does everything this
script does. 

>> >> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
>> >> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
>> >> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
>> >> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
>> >> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
>> >> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL. 
>> >> 
>> >> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
>> >> competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
>> >> in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
>> >> because that will not have been EASIER than what I did. 
>> >> 
>> >> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
>> >> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
>> >> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
>> >> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
>> >> competition. 
>> >> 
>> >> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge. 
>
> Probably, but I can safely say: No matter what he does he'll continue
> to throw a tantrum.
>
>> > IRC, he failed my troubleshooting challenge to look at a web page and
>> > describe a simple issue... he's kicking up at least as much of a fuss
>> > with this one, if not more. Good job ;)
>> 
>> Hey, I'm just showing that ancient command line is making a Monkey out
>> his GUI. My solution by the way is super portable to other Linux
>> distros. For example, under Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Mint,
>> Debian, Manjaro, fedora and others I have needed ZERO modifications. I
>> just execute my script AS IS on other distros and it works just fine. 
>
> I'd argue that portability goes under the headings of 'efficiency'
> and 'productivity'; to that I'd add being able to tweak the code gives
> one an edge on 'error reduction'.
>
>> If I want add this function to my other machines, I merely copy the
>> script to the other machine. That's it. EASY. 
>> 
>> That's Linux making this EASIER than the competition. 
>
> In this instance, no doubt... but unless I'm missing something I don't
> see why it couldn't be run on his Mac... other than his inability to
> get it to, obviously.

It's less a question of if it could run on the mac. The real question is
even if you knew how to do it, could you do it more easily than what
I've shown. What I mean by that is this. Would it take less, the same or
more effort to duplicate this function even if the user is experienced.
The fact that OpenVPN is right in the repo is tough to beat. Any time I
say Linux makes installing something like slrn easier for example, I'd
win. How do get slrn on the Mac? I know how and all. I've done it. But
is it easier to do? No. On Linux all I have to do is say, sudo apt-get
install slrn. 

What would you have to do on the Mac to accomplish the same task? Quite
a bit more. 

Now you could say it is much easier to install Microsoft Office, right?
I'd have to go through hell and be tied to specific version and make use
of WINE or CrossOver. You get the idea. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/23/2016 7:30:29 PM
On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen
>>>>> if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the answer.
>>>>> Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what happens
>>>>> for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if
>>>>> you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>> 
>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.
>>> 
>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
>>> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
>>> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
>>> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>> 
>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that... but
>> in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not common.
> 
> To imbeciles like you.
> 
> To a lot of people it is extremely common

Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it is
common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this being
easier on Linux. 

Seriously, Peter, you would do yourself a favor and not comment on topics
you are completely lost about. :)


-- 
"In fact, the main goal of Linux might be called usability... the most
important thing is that it works well and people ... want to use it."
-- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/23/2016 7:31:03 PM
Snit wrote:

> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen
>>>>>> if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the
>>>>>> answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what
>>>>>> happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if
>>>>>> you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>>>>> commands.
>>>> 
>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
>>>> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less
>>>> out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
>>>> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>>> 
>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>>> common.
>> 
>> To imbeciles like you.
>> 
>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
> 
> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it is
> common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this being
> easier on Linux.

No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software than 
doing screencasting. 

You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero* 
software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this 
case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the VPN(s), 
the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac

> Seriously, Peter, you would do yourself a favor and not comment on topics
> you are completely lost about. :)
> 

The only one lost here is you. You don't have the foggiest how to do a 
similar task on a Mac 

0
Peter
12/23/2016 7:54:41 PM
On 12/23/16, 12:30 PM, in article
esudndrw27LI5sDFnZ2dnUU7-SHNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

.... 
>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
>>> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
>>> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
>>> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>> 
>> Possibly true but I'd say that depends on what kind of 3rd party GUI
>> apps exist. Being under the realm of IT (and 'IT Masters')  I'm not
>> familiar with this field so I have no idea what's out there.
> 
> Absolutely depends. For example, if there was some util app out there
> that does all this for you and is readily available, that would be
> better. But there will be no such app. The reason why is the varying
> features that the script affords me. You might find an app that does one
> part of this script, but you won't find an app that does everything this
> script does. 

Right... but as far as we know there is no such app. Your script would work
on macOS as far as we know, but it is dependant on tools which are not
common on macOS. With Linux you do not have to install them... so it is a
bit easier on Linux. Not much... but, hey, the question was just to find
such a task, not by how much.

We could get nit-picky and say it is not enough to "count" but I think that
would hurt your ego too much. So I say count it... if for no other reason
than it is clearly important to you. Whatever. Others can opt to accept it
or reject it as they please.

.... 
>> In this instance, no doubt... but unless I'm missing something I don't
>> see why it couldn't be run on his Mac... other than his inability to
>> get it to, obviously.

You Carroll, clearly have more experience with posting to Usenet via
proxies. Why don't you try your hand at it? Also would serve your trolling
needs well -- more socks and claims of being hacked and forged. You already
pointed to Tor Browser which you use... this might serve you even better.

> It's less a question of if it could run on the mac. The real question is
> even if you knew how to do it, could you do it more easily than what
> I've shown.

So back to being what *I* can do. You go back and forth on that a lot. Just
from one post:

  Marek 1:
    -----
    Doesn't matter if you can do it.
    -----

  Marek 2 (from the same post!):
    -----
    I don't have to tell you if the Mac can or can't do this.
    That's your job. ... You present for the Mac side, if
    you can. If you can't then you lose. That simple.
    -----

But, hey, I have admitted I do not even have a VPN host nor do I intent to
look for one. Even if I did the task would take me longer than I care to
spend on a COLA task... let us even just say I could not do it (maybe I
could... maybe not... but would certainly take time and research on my part
to even try).

> What I mean by that is this. Would it take less, the same or more effort to
> duplicate this function even if the user is experienced. The fact that OpenVPN
> is right in the repo is tough to beat.

Hmmm, I thought you said it was pre-installed. Looking in the macOS App
Store there are 73 apps that come up under the search of "VPN" -- but none
that I know of that fit the needs of your specific task. Might be able to
script them to do it but nothing jumps out with a quick look. Most, I think,
are just tools to use a specific VPN or even one you set, but do not quit
apps and the like. I would think that just preventing apps from running over
another connection would fit what you described, but do not even know of any
that do that.

Looking briefly now I see some that SHOW if you are connected to the VPN,
but you wanted, if I understand it, to have SOME apps be able to ONLY use
the VPN connection.

Can you describe your task in a few words?

You can use Opera with its built in proxy... so that would serve surfing
needs, but I think you said you wanted to use it with tools to download
stuff illegally. I am not into that and have no real experience with it.
Don't the torrent clients have that built in though? Seems like having the
app work over a specific connection would make more sense but I do not
recall all the details of your needs.

> Any time I say Linux makes installing something like slrn easier for example,
> I'd win.

What do you win? 

> How do get slrn on the Mac? I know how and all. I've done it. But is
> it easier to do? No. On Linux all I have to do is say, sudo apt-get install
> slrn.

If your point is that Linux has great command line tools and is a better
choice than macOS if you are mostly using the command line I think we are in
agreement. Does that mean I win, too?

If so, what are we winning?

> What would you have to do on the Mac to accomplish the same task? Quite a bit
> more.
> 
> Now you could say it is much easier to install Microsoft Office, right? I'd
> have to go through hell and be tied to specific version and make use of WINE
> or CrossOver. You get the idea.

Would not be fair to have a specific app... but you did not. You have a
task. And it seems it is handled better by Linux.

And in that we ALL win. Took you five months or so, but you finally made the
case for that.

Sincerely thankful... now maybe you and others trolling on this will PLEASE
stop trolling over it? Unlikely, I know... but I am an optimist!

-- 
"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children."
-- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/23/2016 8:14:08 PM
On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will happen
>>>>>>> if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit the
>>>>>>> answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and see what
>>>>>>> happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will be.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if
>>>>>>> you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>>>>>> commands.
>>>>> 
>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
>>>>> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less
>>>>> out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
>>>>> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>>>> 
>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>>>> common.
>>> 
>>> To imbeciles like you.
>>> 
>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>> 
>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it is
>> common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this being
>> easier on Linux.
> 
> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.

So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS. OK.
Whatever. It happens.

> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software than
> doing screencasting.
> 
> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero*
> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this
> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the VPN(s),
> the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac

It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely allow
you to more easily steal content... OK. Marek found a task where Linux is
easier.

Really, if you are focusing on things which are done better with the CLI,
Linux is going to do better than the Mac in many areas. Linux has a great
command line AND if that is your primary focus the fact Linux is free makes
it a GREAT choice.

>> Seriously, Peter, you would do yourself a favor and not comment on topics
>> you are completely lost about. :)
> 
> The only one lost here is you. You don't have the foggiest how to do a
> similar task on a Mac

Only Marek has shown he has any idea how to complete his task. OK.


-- 
"Maybe there is someone who considers it disgusting for a parrot to have sex
with a human. Or for a dolphin or tiger to have sex with a human. So what?
Others feel that all sex is disgusting." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/23/2016 8:19:50 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 12:30:36 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 11:25:02 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> >> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > (snip)
> >
> >> >> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen if you
> >> >> attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box. 
> >> >
> >> > I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
> >> > assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk commands.
> >> 
> >> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
> >> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The challenge
> >> is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition. The less out
> >> of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for making it
> >> EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
> >
> > Possibly true but I'd say that depends on what kind of 3rd party GUI
> > apps exist. Being under the realm of IT (and 'IT Masters')  I'm not
> > familiar with this field so I have no idea what's out there.
> 
> Absolutely depends. For example, if there was some util app out there
> that does all this for you and is readily available, that would be
> better. But there will be no such app. The reason why is the varying
> features that the script affords me. You might find an app that does one
> part of this script, but you won't find an app that does everything this
> script does. 

In general, when it comes to flexibility the GUI loses.

> >> >> While bash is bash, there are different versions of bash as you know.
> >> >> The Mac is using 3.x and Linux is using 4.x. Linux has openvpn in the
> >> >> repo. Does the Mac? Does the Mac use the same commands as Linux to
> >> >> identify the network adapter and virtual adapters? I think you see where
> >> >> I am going. So Snit is absolutely welcome to attempt to run my LINUX
> >> >> scripts on MacOS which is based on BSD and see how far he gets. LOL. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Remember, the challenge is to show that LINUX makes this EASIER than the
> >> >> competition. And I believe it does. Snit could hire the best programmer
> >> >> in the world, and I believe he'd still lose the challenge. Simply
> >> >> because that will not have been EASIER than what I did. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> All I needed to do was write a simple SHELL script to accomplish
> >> >> everything on that list of tasks and add openvpn from the repo. How easy
> >> >> was that? This easy. sudo apt-get install openvpn or sudo yum install
> >> >> openvpn. Not hard. And that's LINUX making this EASIER than the
> >> >> competition. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> No matter what he does, he will fail my challenge. 
> >
> > Probably, but I can safely say: No matter what he does he'll continue
> > to throw a tantrum.
> >
> >> > IRC, he failed my troubleshooting challenge to look at a web page and
> >> > describe a simple issue... he's kicking up at least as much of a fuss
> >> > with this one, if not more. Good job ;)
> >> 
> >> Hey, I'm just showing that ancient command line is making a Monkey out
> >> his GUI. My solution by the way is super portable to other Linux
> >> distros. For example, under Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Mint,
> >> Debian, Manjaro, fedora and others I have needed ZERO modifications. I
> >> just execute my script AS IS on other distros and it works just fine. 
> >
> > I'd argue that portability goes under the headings of 'efficiency'
> > and 'productivity'; to that I'd add being able to tweak the code gives
> > one an edge on 'error reduction'.
> >
> >> If I want add this function to my other machines, I merely copy the
> >> script to the other machine. That's it. EASY. 
> >> 
> >> That's Linux making this EASIER than the competition. 
> >
> > In this instance, no doubt... but unless I'm missing something I don't
> > see why it couldn't be run on his Mac... other than his inability to
> > get it to, obviously.
> 
> It's less a question of if it could run on the mac. The real question is
> even if you knew how to do it, could you do it more easily than what
> I've shown. What I mean by that is this. Would it take less, the same or
> more effort to duplicate this function even if the user is experienced.

That's what I meant by me possibly "missing something", I don't understand enough about this to know why it would be easier on Linux. If it's similar to what's you mention below, I'll take your word for it.

> The fact that OpenVPN is right in the repo is tough to beat. Any time I
> say Linux makes installing something like slrn easier for example, I'd
> win. How do get slrn on the Mac? I know how and all. I've done it. But
> is it easier to do? No. On Linux all I have to do is say, sudo apt-get
> install slrn. 
> 
> What would you have to do on the Mac to accomplish the same task? Quite
> a bit more. 

I am aware of differences of this nature, not so with the one above (unless it's a similar thing) because it's not something I have any experience with. 
0
Steve
12/23/2016 9:42:41 PM
The lying imbecile Snit babbled

> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit
>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and
>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will
>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen
>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition.
>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for
>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>>>>> common.
>>>> 
>>>> To imbeciles like you.
>>>> 
>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>>> 
>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it
>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this
>>> being easier on Linux.
>> 
>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
> 
> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS.
> OK. Whatever. It happens.
> 
>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software
>> than doing screencasting.
>> 
>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero*
>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this
>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
> 
> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely allow
> you to more easily steal content... 

So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing about
0
Peter
12/23/2016 9:42:42 PM
On 12/23/16 03:11, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> The lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser babbled:
>
>> Marek has decided if *I* cannot replicate the behavior of a script that HE
>> wrote, and one he does not even deny works on macOS just fine, this is
>> somehow a failure of macOS (he does not say how, but, hey, this is his
>> conclusion... as irrational as it is).
>
> Idiot. And all this complete rewrite of what has happened because you got
> your ass handed several times the last weeks?

I hope they were wearing latex gloves.

0
GreyCloud
12/23/2016 9:55:29 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:

(snip)

> You Carroll, clearly have more experience with posting to Usenet via
> proxies.=20

Bull. I know that the term refers to 'proxy server' but little else.

"A proxy server, also known as a "proxy" or "application-level gateway", is=
 a computer that acts as a gateway between a local network (e.g., all the c=
omputers at one company or in one building) and a larger-scale network such=
 as the Internet."

My router is the only thing between our computers and the internet. I would=
n't have the foggiest notion of what to do to set up a proxy server or how =
to use it. I don't know this kind of stuff, crackhead, it's only in your de=
lusions that I do. Why would I? If Marek recalls, he can tell you that awhi=
le back I was talking about SSHing into an ISP for web development, he info=
rmed me that was a VPN.


> Why don't you try your hand at it?=20

For the same reason I never have before... I'm not interested in it past wh=
at is required to do web development.

> Also would serve your trolling
> needs well -- more socks and claims of being hacked and forged.=20

Projecting your desires onto me again, Snit?

> You already
> pointed to Tor Browser which you use... this might serve you even better.

More BS.


(snip more whining)
0
Steve
12/23/2016 9:59:35 PM
On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> The lying imbecile Snit babbled
> 
>> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
>>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit
>>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and
>>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will
>>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen
>>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>>>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
>>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition.
>>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for
>>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>>>>>> common.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To imbeciles like you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>>>> 
>>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it
>>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this
>>>> being easier on Linux.
>>> 
>>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
>> 
>> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS.
>> OK. Whatever. It happens.
>> 
>>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software
>>> than doing screencasting.
>>> 
>>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero*
>>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this
>>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
>>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
>> 
>> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely allow
>> you to more easily steal content...
> 
> So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing about

I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.


-- 
"Linux desktop is why I got into Linux in the first place. I mean, I
have never, ever cared about really anything but the Linux desktop."
-- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/23/2016 10:17:05 PM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>=20
> > The lying imbecile Snit babbled
> >=20
> >> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> >> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> >>=20
> >>> Snit wrote:
> >>>=20
> >>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> >>>> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> >>>>=20
> >>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
> >>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> >>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
> >>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Sn=
it
> >>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac an=
d
> >>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome w=
ill
> >>>>>>>>> be.
> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happ=
en
> >>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but=
 I
> >>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
> >>>>>>>> commands.
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that w=
ill
> >>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
> >>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competit=
ion.
> >>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins=
 for
> >>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against tha=
t...
> >>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is no=
t
> >>>>>> common.
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> To imbeciles like you.
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say=
 it
> >>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of t=
his
> >>>> being easier on Linux.
> >>>=20
> >>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
> >>=20
> >> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS=
..
> >> OK. Whatever. It happens.
> >>=20
> >>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN softwa=
re
> >>> than doing screencasting.
> >>>=20
> >>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zer=
o*
> >>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in t=
his
> >>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
> >>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
> >>=20
> >> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely a=
llow
> >> you to more easily steal content...
> >=20
> > So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing a=
bout
>=20
> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.

JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth, then?! It=
 sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're like an entir=
e crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
0
Steve
12/23/2016 10:23:43 PM
On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>> > The lying imbecile Snit babbled
>> > 
>> >> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> >> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> Snit wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> >>>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >>>> 
>> >>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>> >>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> >>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
>> >>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit
>> >>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and
>> >>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will
>> >>>>>>>>> be.
>> >>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen
>> >>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>> >>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>> >>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>> >>>>>>>> commands.
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>> >>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
>> >>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition.
>> >>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for
>> >>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>> >>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>> >>>>>> common.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> To imbeciles like you.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it
>> >>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this
>> >>>> being easier on Linux.
>> >>> 
>> >>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
>> >> 
>> >> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS.
>> >> OK. Whatever. It happens.
>> >> 
>> >>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software
>> >>> than doing screencasting.
>> >>> 
>> >>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero*
>> >>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this
>> >>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
>> >>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
>> >> 
>> >> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely allow
>> >> you to more easily steal content...
>> > 
>> > So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing about
>> 
>> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
>
> JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
> then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're
> like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?

It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?

I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS. 

Something doesn't add up with Snit. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 12:11:43 AM
On 12/23/16, 5:11 PM, in article
fr2dnVe479yiIMDFnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

>>>> So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing about
>>> 
>>> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
>> 
>> JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
>> then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're
>> like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
> 
> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.

Interesting lie you are telling. Can I ask why?

> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
> 
> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.
> 
> Something doesn't add up with Snit.

The fact you feel the need to make stories up about me might be a big part
of it. 

Seriously: why would you make up such a story? What is the benefit for you?
Just points with those who troll now that you FINALLY, after four months,
did what I asked you do you feel you have to work to please them?


-- 
🙈🙉🙊


0
Snit
12/24/2016 12:18:07 AM
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> >> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
> >> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> > The lying imbecile Snit babbled
> >> >=20
> >> >> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Pete=
r
> >> >> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> >>=20
> >> >>> Snit wrote:
> >> >>>=20
> >> >>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Pe=
ter
> >> >>>> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> >>>>=20
> >> >>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
> >> >>>>>=20
> >> >>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
> >> >>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> >> >>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>=20
> >> >>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what wi=
ll
> >> >>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling=
 Snit
> >> >>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac=
 and
> >> >>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcom=
e will
> >> >>>>>>>>> be.
> >> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >> >>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will h=
appen
> >> >>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
> >> >>>>>>>>=20
> >> >>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" =
but I
> >> >>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or aw=
k
> >> >>>>>>>> commands.
> >> >>>>>>>=20
> >> >>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because tha=
t will
> >> >>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
> >> >>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the compe=
tition.
> >> >>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux w=
ins for
> >> >>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
> >> >>>>>>=20
> >> >>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against =
that...
> >> >>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is=
 not
> >> >>>>>> common.
> >> >>>>>=20
> >> >>>>> To imbeciles like you.
> >> >>>>>=20
> >> >>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
> >> >>>>=20
> >> >>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to =
say it
> >> >>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim o=
f this
> >> >>>> being easier on Linux.
> >> >>>=20
> >> >>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not ma=
cOS.
> >> >> OK. Whatever. It happens.
> >> >>=20
> >> >>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN sof=
tware
> >> >>> than doing screencasting.
> >> >>>=20
> >> >>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *=
zero*
> >> >>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux i=
n this
> >> >>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config th=
e
> >> >>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
> >> >>=20
> >> >> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safel=
y allow
> >> >> you to more easily steal content...
> >> >=20
> >> > So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothin=
g about
> >>=20
> >> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
> >
> > JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
> > then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're
> > like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
>=20
> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
>=20
> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.=20
>=20
> Something doesn't add up with Snit.=20

The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:

--
"When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the t=
ax
season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
get their system to work.

Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.

Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s=
16c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
--

Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the ef=
fort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If tha=
t doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.

In case anyone missed it:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>

0
Steve
12/24/2016 12:49:22 AM
On 2016-12-24, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>> >> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> >> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > The lying imbecile Snit babbled
>> >> > 
>> >> >> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> >> >> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >>> Snit wrote:
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> >> >>>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>> >> >>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> >> >>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
>> >> >>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit
>> >> >>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and
>> >> >>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will
>> >> >>>>>>>>> be.
>> >> >>>>>>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen
>> >> >>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>> >> >>>>>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>> >> >>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>> >> >>>>>>>> commands.
>> >> >>>>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>> >> >>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
>> >> >>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition.
>> >> >>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for
>> >> >>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>> >> >>>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>> >> >>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>> >> >>>>>> common.
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> To imbeciles like you.
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it
>> >> >>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this
>> >> >>>> being easier on Linux.
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS.
>> >> >> OK. Whatever. It happens.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software
>> >> >>> than doing screencasting.
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero*
>> >> >>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this
>> >> >>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
>> >> >>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely allow
>> >> >> you to more easily steal content...
>> >> > 
>> >> > So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing about
>> >> 
>> >> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
>> >
>> > JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
>> > then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're
>> > like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
>> 
>> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
>> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
>> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
>> 
>> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
>> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS. 
>> 
>> Something doesn't add up with Snit. 
>
> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
>
> --
> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the tax
> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
> get their system to work.
>
> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
>
> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
>
><https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s16c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
> --
>
> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the
> effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If
> that doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.
>
> In case anyone missed it:
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>

Snit's many years of UNIX experience. I guess in 6 years he never
experienced NFS. ;)

:[X]::::See:messages:below::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[_]:[<>]:

Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
bad with and what things people had trouble with.

I am one of the very few people you will meet who started learning all
three systems *literally* on the same day... though I did know the Apple
IIe well before then.

CF0456C3.2BE8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1. MS
seemed like they were trying to get the best of both worlds but failing
horribly... ending up with a monster in between that was always breaking
and even when it worked did nothing very well. Even then I was hoping for
a Mac like experience with a UNIX like back end... which we now have with
OS X and, to a much lesser extent, Linux. Still, Linux probably "wins"
somewhat with the CLI side and OS X "wins" hands down with the GUI side.

D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

A UNIX cannot help but act like a UNIX... unless it has damaged files
or is running on bad hardware or something. :)

os x is different from other unix variants, but that does not mean it
is not a unix. not only is it a unix, it is the world's most popular
unix. now being popular does not mean it is better - but to deny it is
a unix is like saying you like big dogs so a chihuahua is not a dog.

cf042510.2be3e%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

two labs. an edu lab with apple iie machines and a library lab with mac,
dos, and unix terminals. there was also another edu lab with macs but i
did not work there are first, and another lab in another building with
dos machines. i did later work in all of those labs and then ran the
edu labs (there were the two mentioned above plus two more in portables).

This was from 1987 to 1993 when I was working there. 

D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 3:37:41 AM
On 12/23/16, 8:37 PM, in article
_f6dnWiJYfoYcMDFnZ2dnUU7-IHNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

.... 
>>> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
>>> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
>>> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
>>> 
>>> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
>>> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.
>>> 
>>> Something doesn't add up with Snit.
>> 
>> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
>> 
>> --
>> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the tax
>> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
>> get their system to work.
>> 
>> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
>> 
>> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
>> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
>> 
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s16
>> c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
>> --
>> 
>> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the
>> effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If
>> that doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.

I used FileMaker Pro... and my solution worked well. Comes down to you do
not think what I did was possible AND you feel the need to troll me AND you
pull this up in connection with Linux / UNIX and networking -- which is not
relevant at all.

Yeah: more Carroll trolling.

>> In case anyone missed it:
>> 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>

That is you... no doubt.
 
> Snit's many years of UNIX experience. I guess in 6 years he never
> experienced NFS. ;)
> 
> :[X]::::See:messages:below::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[_]:[<>]:
> 
> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.

Right. And where do I say I ran the UNIX lab? I ran the Macs and some of the
PCs... and there were UNIX machines in the lab. Well, one of the labs -- the
main library lab of the college. I did work there quite a bit but did more
in the education lab... where they expanded it and I ran the cluster of
labs.

Mostly Macs though there were some PCs in one of the labs.

> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> 
> I am one of the very few people you will meet who started learning all
> three systems *literally* on the same day... though I did know the Apple
> IIe well before then.

All 100% true. OK.

> CF0456C3.2BE8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1. MS
> seemed like they were trying to get the best of both worlds but failing
> horribly... ending up with a monster in between that was always breaking
> and even when it worked did nothing very well. Even then I was hoping for
> a Mac like experience with a UNIX like back end... which we now have with
> OS X and, to a much lesser extent, Linux. Still, Linux probably "wins"
> somewhat with the CLI side and OS X "wins" hands down with the GUI side.

All 100% true.

> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> A UNIX cannot help but act like a UNIX... unless it has damaged files
> or is running on bad hardware or something. :)
> 
> os x is different from other unix variants, but that does not mean it
> is not a unix. not only is it a unix, it is the world's most popular
> unix. now being popular does not mean it is better - but to deny it is
> a unix is like saying you like big dogs so a chihuahua is not a dog.
> 
> cf042510.2be3e%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> two labs. an edu lab with apple iie machines and a library lab with mac,
> dos, and unix terminals. there was also another edu lab with macs but i
> did not work there are first, and another lab in another building with
> dos machines. i did later work in all of those labs and then ran the
> edu labs (there were the two mentioned above plus two more in portables).
> 
> This was from 1987 to 1993 when I was working there.
> 
> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.

Compare that to YOUR claim:
    -----
    He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
    in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
    -----

You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.

Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.

Feel free to prove me wrong.



-- 
"Necrophilia would be my second choice for what should be done with my
corpse, the first being scientific or medical use." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 3:53:14 AM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/23/16, 8:37 PM, in article
> _f6dnWiJYfoYcMDFnZ2dnUU7-IHNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
> ... 
>>>> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
>>>> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
>>>> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
>>>> 
>>>> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
>>>> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.
>>>> 
>>>> Something doesn't add up with Snit.
>>> 
>>> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
>>> 
>>> --
>>> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the tax
>>> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
>>> get their system to work.
>>> 
>>> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
>>> 
>>> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
>>> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
>>> 
>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s16
>>> c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the
>>> effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If
>>> that doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.
>
> I used FileMaker Pro... and my solution worked well. Comes down to you do
> not think what I did was possible AND you feel the need to troll me AND you
> pull this up in connection with Linux / UNIX and networking -- which is not
> relevant at all.
>
> Yeah: more Carroll trolling.
>
>>> In case anyone missed it:
>>> 
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>
>
> That is you... no doubt.
>  
>> Snit's many years of UNIX experience. I guess in 6 years he never
>> experienced NFS. ;)
>> 
>> :[X]::::See:messages:below::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[_]:[<>]:
>> 
>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>
> Right. And where do I say I ran the UNIX lab? I ran the Macs and some of the
> PCs... and there were UNIX machines in the lab. Well, one of the labs -- the
> main library lab of the college. I did work there quite a bit but did more
> in the education lab... where they expanded it and I ran the cluster of
> labs.
>
> Mostly Macs though there were some PCs in one of the labs.
>
>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>> 
>> I am one of the very few people you will meet who started learning all
>> three systems *literally* on the same day... though I did know the Apple
>> IIe well before then.
>
> All 100% true. OK.
>
>> CF0456C3.2BE8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
>> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
>> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
>> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
>> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
>> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1. MS
>> seemed like they were trying to get the best of both worlds but failing
>> horribly... ending up with a monster in between that was always breaking
>> and even when it worked did nothing very well. Even then I was hoping for
>> a Mac like experience with a UNIX like back end... which we now have with
>> OS X and, to a much lesser extent, Linux. Still, Linux probably "wins"
>> somewhat with the CLI side and OS X "wins" hands down with the GUI side.
>
> All 100% true.
>
>> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> A UNIX cannot help but act like a UNIX... unless it has damaged files
>> or is running on bad hardware or something. :)
>> 
>> os x is different from other unix variants, but that does not mean it
>> is not a unix. not only is it a unix, it is the world's most popular
>> unix. now being popular does not mean it is better - but to deny it is
>> a unix is like saying you like big dogs so a chihuahua is not a dog.
>> 
>> cf042510.2be3e%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> two labs. an edu lab with apple iie machines and a library lab with mac,
>> dos, and unix terminals. there was also another edu lab with macs but i
>> did not work there are first, and another lab in another building with
>> dos machines. i did later work in all of those labs and then ran the
>> edu labs (there were the two mentioned above plus two more in portables).
>> 
>> This was from 1987 to 1993 when I was working there.
>> 
>> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>
> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>
> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>     -----
>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>     -----

Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
all those posts above. What do you object to?

> You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.

You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
Sounds correct to me. 

I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.
Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
were connected to anything? Some lab...

And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
those six years, nothing? LOL.

> Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
> big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
> with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.

Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it. 

> Feel free to prove me wrong.

I think your posts already do that. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 4:22:09 AM
On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>> 
>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>     -----
>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>     -----
> 
> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
> all those posts above. What do you object to?

You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.

There is a difference between working in a lab with such machines and
helping people with the software on them and running the lab itself. A huge
difference.

With that said, hey, you remembered me talking about running labs and also
about UNIX being in the labs. You did the honest thing and even pulled up
quotes. That would be fine -- as would just asking me.

Now you have seen the quotes and heard where you went wrong. No big deal.

Just don't troll over it, please. Fair enough.

>> You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.
> 
> You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
> Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
> Sounds correct to me.

That is not at all correct, as you know. Now you are just trolling.
Remember, Peter specifically said he wanted a GUI tool so I found a GUI
tool. I *never* said one had to use that tool.

That is where you go wrong... you just make things up about other people and
then stick it no matter how wrong you are. Look how long it took you to say
you thought your VPN task was easier on Linux than on macOS... MONTHS.

You spend a LOT of time on your own ego and not on tech. When you focus on
tech, though, you actually present yourself well.

> I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.

I used UNIX... and helped people with it. I was not the one setting up the
network. 

> Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
> were connected to anything? Some lab...

See: this is you just twisting. Again, I did not set up the UNIX machines.
Not sure what else to tell you. Maybe you want to go around and around on it
for months before you get it, like you did with your VPN challenge?

Just silly.

> And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
> those six years, nothing? LOL.

See: that is just trolling from you. Instead of going through all I did I
will tell you AGAIN: I did not set up the networking on the UNIX machines.

Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend... other than you are
just trolling.

>> Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
>> big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
>> with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.
> 
> Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it.

And here you go... pushing your newest circus. Good grief.

>> Feel free to prove me wrong.
> 
> I think your posts already do that.

LOL! You are pushing to start a new circus now that your several-month long
one over VPN came to a crash around you when you finally answered the
question I asked at the very start, and now you seek to start a new one.

But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
for your trolling. Count on it.

Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)

-- 
"All of these acts [prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality,
possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia] should be
legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of
prejudice and narrowmindedness." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 4:39:56 AM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>> 
>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>     -----
>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>     -----
>> 
>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>
> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.

You said the following:

// start

Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
bad with and what things people had trouble with.

// end

You mentioned UNIX first. 

In another post you change it a little by saying this:

// start

I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...

// end

And it yet another post, you say it like this:

// start

Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
DOS, and UNIX terminals.

// end

So, I have to ask, what exactly did you learn on these UNIX terminals? 

> There is a difference between working in a lab with such machines and
> helping people with the software on them and running the lab itself. A huge
> difference.

Do tell. What exactly did you do with UNIX? What version? 

> With that said, hey, you remembered me talking about running labs and also
> about UNIX being in the labs. You did the honest thing and even pulled up
> quotes. That would be fine -- as would just asking me.
>
> Now you have seen the quotes and heard where you went wrong. No big deal.
>
> Just don't troll over it, please. Fair enough.
>
>>> You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.
>> 
>> You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
>> Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
>> Sounds correct to me.
>
> That is not at all correct, as you know. Now you are just trolling.
> Remember, Peter specifically said he wanted a GUI tool so I found a GUI
> tool. I *never* said one had to use that tool.

Peter said out of the box, not 3rd party. Selective memory much?

> That is where you go wrong... you just make things up about other people and
> then stick it no matter how wrong you are. Look how long it took you to say
> you thought your VPN task was easier on Linux than on macOS... MONTHS.

I said it was easier by making it the challenge. That's the whole point
of the challenge and I repeated this a zillion times, liar. 

> You spend a LOT of time on your own ego and not on tech. When you focus on
> tech, though, you actually present yourself well.

Na, you just like saying that cause you like misdirection. 

>> I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.
>
> I used UNIX... and helped people with it. I was not the one setting up the
> network. 

What did you use it for? Describe some things typical at that time done
in UNIX in that lab. 

>> Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
>> were connected to anything? Some lab...
>
> See: this is you just twisting. Again, I did not set up the UNIX machines.
> Not sure what else to tell you. Maybe you want to go around and around on it
> for months before you get it, like you did with your VPN challenge?
>
> Just silly.
>
>> And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
>> those six years, nothing? LOL.
>
> See: that is just trolling from you. Instead of going through all I did I
> will tell you AGAIN: I did not set up the networking on the UNIX machines.

// quote from you

I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1.

// end quote

So according to that post YOU RAN THE LAB. And you were a big fan of
UNIX according to your own post. You did this for 6 years!! You're
telling me a BIG FAN OF UNIX who RAN THE LAB for 6 years and you never
setup a single UNIX machine? You never used NFS? Cause the way you setup
NFS on the Mac, is via the nfs daemon. This is OLD SCHOOL. Why did you
need to run a GUI utility to do it having run an Apple Lab for 6 years
where you had UNIX and was BIG FAN OF UNIX. Doesn't add up to me at all.
What other way is there to share volumes in UNIX back in the days of
DOS? See I'm pretty sure NFS was around during your lab time... I don't
think SMB was, and if it was it sure wasn't popular...  So was this lab
a bunch of islands, or were the computers connected to something? 

> Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend... other than you are
> just trolling.

Just trying to get a feel for what this lab actually was and what your
so-called experience actually was. 

>>> Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
>>> big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
>>> with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.
>> 
>> Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it.
>
> And here you go... pushing your newest circus. Good grief.
>
>>> Feel free to prove me wrong.
>> 
>> I think your posts already do that.
>
> LOL! You are pushing to start a new circus now that your several-month long
> one over VPN came to a crash around you when you finally answered the
> question I asked at the very start, and now you seek to start a new one.

You're the one who told me I was lying so I pulled some old posts to
hash it out. 

> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
> for your trolling. Count on it.
>
> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 5:12:40 AM
On 12/23/16, 10:12 PM, in article
FdOdnaxKR6BVnsPFnZ2dnUU7-SvNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>> 
>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>     -----
>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>     -----
>>> 
>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>> 
>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
> 
> You said the following:
> 
> // start
> 
> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> 
> // end
> 
> You mentioned UNIX first.
> 
> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
> 
> // start
> 
> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
> 
> // end
> 
> And it yet another post, you say it like this:
> 
> // start
> 
> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
> 
> // end
> 
> So, I have to ask, what exactly did you learn on these UNIX terminals?
> 
>> There is a difference between working in a lab with such machines and
>> helping people with the software on them and running the lab itself. A huge
>> difference.
> 
> Do tell. What exactly did you do with UNIX? What version?
> 
>> With that said, hey, you remembered me talking about running labs and also
>> about UNIX being in the labs. You did the honest thing and even pulled up
>> quotes. That would be fine -- as would just asking me.
>> 
>> Now you have seen the quotes and heard where you went wrong. No big deal.
>> 
>> Just don't troll over it, please. Fair enough.
>> 
>>>> You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.
>>> 
>>> You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
>>> Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
>>> Sounds correct to me.
>> 
>> That is not at all correct, as you know. Now you are just trolling.
>> Remember, Peter specifically said he wanted a GUI tool so I found a GUI
>> tool. I *never* said one had to use that tool.
> 
> Peter said out of the box, not 3rd party. Selective memory much?
> 
>> That is where you go wrong... you just make things up about other people and
>> then stick it no matter how wrong you are. Look how long it took you to say
>> you thought your VPN task was easier on Linux than on macOS... MONTHS.
> 
> I said it was easier by making it the challenge. That's the whole point
> of the challenge and I repeated this a zillion times, liar.
> 
>> You spend a LOT of time on your own ego and not on tech. When you focus on
>> tech, though, you actually present yourself well.
> 
> Na, you just like saying that cause you like misdirection.
> 
>>> I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.
>> 
>> I used UNIX... and helped people with it. I was not the one setting up the
>> network. 
> 
> What did you use it for? Describe some things typical at that time done
> in UNIX in that lab.
> 
>>> Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
>>> were connected to anything? Some lab...
>> 
>> See: this is you just twisting. Again, I did not set up the UNIX machines.
>> Not sure what else to tell you. Maybe you want to go around and around on it
>> for months before you get it, like you did with your VPN challenge?
>> 
>> Just silly.
>> 
>>> And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
>>> those six years, nothing? LOL.
>> 
>> See: that is just trolling from you. Instead of going through all I did I
>> will tell you AGAIN: I did not set up the networking on the UNIX machines.
> 
> // quote from you
> 
> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1.
> 
> // end quote
> 
> So according to that post YOU RAN THE LAB. And you were a big fan of
> UNIX according to your own post. You did this for 6 years!! You're
> telling me a BIG FAN OF UNIX who RAN THE LAB for 6 years and you never
> setup a single UNIX machine? You never used NFS? Cause the way you setup
> NFS on the Mac, is via the nfs daemon. This is OLD SCHOOL. Why did you
> need to run a GUI utility to do it having run an Apple Lab for 6 years
> where you had UNIX and was BIG FAN OF UNIX. Doesn't add up to me at all.
> What other way is there to share volumes in UNIX back in the days of
> DOS? See I'm pretty sure NFS was around during your lab time... I don't
> think SMB was, and if it was it sure wasn't popular...  So was this lab
> a bunch of islands, or were the computers connected to something?
> 
>> Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend... other than you are
>> just trolling.
> 
> Just trying to get a feel for what this lab actually was and what your
> so-called experience actually was.
> 
>>>> Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
>>>> big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
>>>> with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.
>>> 
>>> Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it.
>> 
>> And here you go... pushing your newest circus. Good grief.
>> 
>>>> Feel free to prove me wrong.
>>> 
>>> I think your posts already do that.
>> 
>> LOL! You are pushing to start a new circus now that your several-month long
>> one over VPN came to a crash around you when you finally answered the
>> question I asked at the very start, and now you seek to start a new one.
> 
> You're the one who told me I was lying so I pulled some old posts to
> hash it out. 
> 
>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
>> for your trolling. Count on it.
>> 
>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)

You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how you
can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
instead of technology.

Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.

Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
cannot show I said it.

And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
will answer.

I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
spreadsheet, and database but also other software).

Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
programming classes.

I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance -- of
course not. But I did well.

But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
(which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
(yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
list!). 

Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as I
have shown -- I knew where its limits were.

From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.

That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!

Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)

But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
lab.

At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not kept
up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)

During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software. Whatever.

Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set them
up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There were
a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
am not the one who set them up.

Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used my
manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).

After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled the
help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got there).
Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
little with it.

Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
foundation)... we are talking some time back!

Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
not know the language they were using.

Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or Carroll
or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
their level or not.

With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer to
you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).

Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things I
do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.

That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the nonsense
where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)

Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.

Hopefully that gives you something to think about.


-- 
"In fact, the main goal of Linux might be called usability... the most
important thing is that it works well and people ... want to use it."
-- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/24/2016 7:51:40 AM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>> 
>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>     -----
>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>     -----
>>> 
>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>
>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
> 
> You said the following:
> 
> // start
> 
> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> 
> // end
> 
> You mentioned UNIX first. 
> 
> In another post you change it a little by saying this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g 

-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench
0
flatfish
12/24/2016 3:33:58 PM
On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>     -----
>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>     -----
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>>
>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>> 
>> You said the following:
>> 
>> // start
>> 
>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>> 
>> // end
>> 
>> You mentioned UNIX first. 
>> 
>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g 

I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:

// quote

I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...

D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

// end

and in another post he says this...

// quote

Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
DOS, and UNIX terminals.

D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

// end quote

It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
he ran the lab for 6 years. 

And in a today's posts:

// quote

During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
remember.)


D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com

// end quote

In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
called, Retrospect. That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for
system 9 and lower. Don't think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that
would have stuck in my head since I love rsync and use it all the time.
I even complain about how it doesn't support the HFS + resource fork on
MacOSX, so I dunno...  

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 4:01:16 PM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/23/16, 10:12 PM, in article
> FdOdnaxKR6BVnsPFnZ2dnUU7-SvNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>     -----
>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>     -----
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>> 
>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>> 
>> You said the following:
>> 
>> // start
>> 
>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>> 
>> // end
>> 
>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>> 
>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>> 
>> // start
>> 
>> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
>> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
>> 
>> // end
>> 
>> And it yet another post, you say it like this:
>> 
>> // start
>> 
>> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
>> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
>> 
>> // end
>> 
>> So, I have to ask, what exactly did you learn on these UNIX terminals?
>> 
>>> There is a difference between working in a lab with such machines and
>>> helping people with the software on them and running the lab itself. A huge
>>> difference.
>> 
>> Do tell. What exactly did you do with UNIX? What version?
>> 
>>> With that said, hey, you remembered me talking about running labs and also
>>> about UNIX being in the labs. You did the honest thing and even pulled up
>>> quotes. That would be fine -- as would just asking me.
>>> 
>>> Now you have seen the quotes and heard where you went wrong. No big deal.
>>> 
>>> Just don't troll over it, please. Fair enough.
>>> 
>>>>> You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.
>>>> 
>>>> You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
>>>> Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
>>>> Sounds correct to me.
>>> 
>>> That is not at all correct, as you know. Now you are just trolling.
>>> Remember, Peter specifically said he wanted a GUI tool so I found a GUI
>>> tool. I *never* said one had to use that tool.
>> 
>> Peter said out of the box, not 3rd party. Selective memory much?
>> 
>>> That is where you go wrong... you just make things up about other people and
>>> then stick it no matter how wrong you are. Look how long it took you to say
>>> you thought your VPN task was easier on Linux than on macOS... MONTHS.
>> 
>> I said it was easier by making it the challenge. That's the whole point
>> of the challenge and I repeated this a zillion times, liar.
>> 
>>> You spend a LOT of time on your own ego and not on tech. When you focus on
>>> tech, though, you actually present yourself well.
>> 
>> Na, you just like saying that cause you like misdirection.
>> 
>>>> I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.
>>> 
>>> I used UNIX... and helped people with it. I was not the one setting up the
>>> network. 
>> 
>> What did you use it for? Describe some things typical at that time done
>> in UNIX in that lab.
>> 
>>>> Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
>>>> were connected to anything? Some lab...
>>> 
>>> See: this is you just twisting. Again, I did not set up the UNIX machines.
>>> Not sure what else to tell you. Maybe you want to go around and around on it
>>> for months before you get it, like you did with your VPN challenge?
>>> 
>>> Just silly.
>>> 
>>>> And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
>>>> those six years, nothing? LOL.
>>> 
>>> See: that is just trolling from you. Instead of going through all I did I
>>> will tell you AGAIN: I did not set up the networking on the UNIX machines.
>> 
>> // quote from you
>> 
>> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
>> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
>> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
>> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
>> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
>> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1.
>> 
>> // end quote
>> 
>> So according to that post YOU RAN THE LAB. And you were a big fan of
>> UNIX according to your own post. You did this for 6 years!! You're
>> telling me a BIG FAN OF UNIX who RAN THE LAB for 6 years and you never
>> setup a single UNIX machine? You never used NFS? Cause the way you setup
>> NFS on the Mac, is via the nfs daemon. This is OLD SCHOOL. Why did you
>> need to run a GUI utility to do it having run an Apple Lab for 6 years
>> where you had UNIX and was BIG FAN OF UNIX. Doesn't add up to me at all.
>> What other way is there to share volumes in UNIX back in the days of
>> DOS? See I'm pretty sure NFS was around during your lab time... I don't
>> think SMB was, and if it was it sure wasn't popular...  So was this lab
>> a bunch of islands, or were the computers connected to something?
>> 
>>> Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend... other than you are
>>> just trolling.
>> 
>> Just trying to get a feel for what this lab actually was and what your
>> so-called experience actually was.
>> 
>>>>> Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
>>>>> big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
>>>>> with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.
>>>> 
>>>> Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it.
>>> 
>>> And here you go... pushing your newest circus. Good grief.
>>> 
>>>>> Feel free to prove me wrong.
>>>> 
>>>> I think your posts already do that.
>>> 
>>> LOL! You are pushing to start a new circus now that your several-month long
>>> one over VPN came to a crash around you when you finally answered the
>>> question I asked at the very start, and now you seek to start a new one.
>> 
>> You're the one who told me I was lying so I pulled some old posts to
>> hash it out. 
>> 
>>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
>>> for your trolling. Count on it.
>>> 
>>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)
>
> You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how you
> can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
> not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
> instead of technology.
>
> Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
> claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
> you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.
>
> Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
> there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
> you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
> cannot show I said it.
>
> And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
> you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
> complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
> shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
> and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
> will answer.
>
> I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
> computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
> the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
> the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
> spreadsheet, and database but also other software).
>
> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
> FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
> programming classes.
>
> I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
> people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
> help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
> explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
> also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
> Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
> used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
> look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance -- of
> course not. But I did well.
>
> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
> telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
> (yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
> command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
> that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
> list!). 
>
> Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
> knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
> Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
> But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
> the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as I
> have shown -- I knew where its limits were.
>
> From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
> systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
> of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
> could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
> for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
> myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
> system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
> they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.
>
> That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
> network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!
>
> Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
> piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
> AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)
>
> But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
> another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
> Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
> lab.
>
> At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
> clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not kept
> up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
> complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
> complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
> a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)
>
> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
> Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software. Whatever.
>
> Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
> they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set them
> up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There were
> a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
> am not the one who set them up.
>
> Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
> get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
> software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used my
> manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
> of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).
>
> After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
> special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
> County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled the
> help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
> access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
> later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
> the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
> 200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
> something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
> classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
> the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
> class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
> Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got there).
> Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
> did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
> for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
> station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
> little with it.
>
> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>
> Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
> it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
> not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
> students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
> not know the language they were using.
>
> Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or Carroll
> or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
> open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
> their level or not.
>
> With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer to
> you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
> over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).
>
> Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things I
> do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
> I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.
>
> That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the nonsense
> where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
> the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
> cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
> skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
> what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
> Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)
>
> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>
> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.

So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
ironic coming from you, Snit. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 4:03:03 PM
On 12/24/16, 8:33 AM, in article ec7ir7FracfU1@mid.individual.net,
"flatfish+++" <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>     -----
>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>     -----
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>> 
>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>> 
>> You said the following:
>> 
>> // start
>> 
>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>> 
>> // end
>> 
>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>> 
>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g

I am trying to cut his circus off... though likely I am just giving him and
others who troll COLA more fodder for their nonsense. Still, I prefer to
error on the side of being open and honest.


-- 
"Necrophilia would be my second choice for what should be done with my
corpse, the first being scientific or medical use." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 4:28:32 PM
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> >
> >> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
> >>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> >>><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
> >>>>>     -----
> >>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
> >>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> >>>>>     -----
> >>>> 
> >>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
> >>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
> >>>
> >>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
> >>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
> >> 
> >> You said the following:
> >> 
> >> // start
> >> 
> >> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> >> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> >> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> >> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> >> 
> >> // end
> >> 
> >> You mentioned UNIX first. 
> >> 
> >> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g 
> 
> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
> 
> // quote
> 
> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
> 
> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end
> 
> and in another post he says this...
> 
> // quote
> 
> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
> 
> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end quote
> 
> It's just so inconsistent. 

With one of Snit's little 'stories' it usually is:

"Right. And where do I say I ran the UNIX lab? I ran the Macs and some of the 
PCs... and there were UNIX machines in the lab. Well, one of the labs -- the 
main library lab of the college. I did work there quite a bit but did more 
in the education lab... where they expanded it and I ran the cluster of 
labs. "

Today it's morphed into a "cluster of labs."

I partially blame the meds (for him not being able to keep his lies straight).
0
Steve
12/24/2016 4:44:19 PM
On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

.... 
>>>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
>>>> for your trolling. Count on it.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)
>> 
>> You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how you
>> can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
>> not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
>> instead of technology.
>> 
>> Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
>> claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
>> you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.
>> 
>> Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
>> there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
>> you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
>> cannot show I said it.
>> 
>> And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
>> you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
>> complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
>> shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
>> and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
>> will answer.
>> 
>> I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
>> computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
>> the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
>> the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
>> spreadsheet, and database but also other software).
>> 
>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
>> FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
>> programming classes.
>> 
>> I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
>> people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
>> help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
>> explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
>> also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
>> Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
>> used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
>> look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance -- of
>> course not. But I did well.
>> 
>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>> telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
>> (yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
>> command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
>> that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
>> list!). 
>> 
>> Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
>> knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
>> Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
>> But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
>> the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as I
>> have shown -- I knew where its limits were.
>> 
>> From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
>> systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
>> of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
>> could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
>> for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
>> myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
>> system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
>> they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.
>> 
>> That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
>> network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!
>> 
>> Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
>> piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
>> AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)
>> 
>> But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
>> another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
>> Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
>> lab.
>> 
>> At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
>> clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not kept
>> up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
>> complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
>> complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
>> a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)
>> 
>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
>> Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software. Whatever.
>> 
>> Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
>> they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set them
>> up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There were
>> a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
>> am not the one who set them up.
>> 
>> Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
>> get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
>> software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used my
>> manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
>> of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).
>> 
>> After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
>> special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
>> County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled the
>> help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
>> access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
>> later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
>> the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
>> 200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
>> something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
>> classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
>> the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
>> class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
>> Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got there).
>> Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
>> did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
>> for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
>> station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
>> little with it.
>> 
>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>> 
>> Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
>> it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
>> not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
>> students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
>> not know the language they were using.
>> 
>> Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or Carroll
>> or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
>> open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
>> their level or not.
>> 
>> With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer to
>> you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
>> over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).
>> 
>> Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things I
>> do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
>> I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.
>> 
>> That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the nonsense
>> where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
>> the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
>> cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
>> skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
>> what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
>> Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)
>> 
>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>> 
>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
> 
> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?

Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
honorable. I would like to see you focus on technology and even as you are
trolling me and lying about me I showed a sign of peace by responding to
your request to talk about technology. While I did not sweep your crap under
the rug like you would like, I did not make it the focus.

As far as your comments, seems you are pissed I called you out on your flat
out lie about your last four months of trolling. One of those lies was:

  Marek 1:
    -----
    Doesn't matter if you can do it.
    -----

But your whole focus, until the last couple of days, was that YOU could do
what *I* could not. It was ALL about your ego. You went on and on and on
about how I "lost" and even how the whole Mac community did. When I asked
what I lost you never could say... it was not like I joined your pissing
contest or pretended to know how to when I did not. It was all you
fantasizing about some big tech battle between us that you "won" and where I
was humiliated for not doing something I never suggested I could do.

But, again, after about four months you DID finally answer the question and
I commended you for it. Let us move on from it.

And as a sign of doing just that... I saw elsewhere you spoke of what you
saw as an inconsistency in my speaking of tech: referencing UNIX terminals
in some places and UNIX machines in others.

When I got the college they had ADM terminals... clunky one-piece things
with a screen and keyboard. Later they got SUN machines with the optical
mice. Maybe laser... not sure. Anyway, there was a lot of confusion for
people -- they had never seen a mouse without a roller. To help clear up the
confusion I printed a big banner on green-bar paper that let people know:

    UNIX mice have no balls.

OK, technically not correct but it was the mice on the UNIX machines and the
banner had to be relatively short. For some reason my boss asked me to take
it down. Weird. :)

As time went on they got rid of the ADM terminals and moved to pure SUN
workstations. 

By the end of my six years there I was working in the EDU cluster of labs
which focused on Macs. In the end they did not even keep the UNIX machines
-- they were not used and were donated to another department (or traded or
whatever). And the above is not going into all detail nor even mentioning
all labs. There as also a lab in the humanities building where I sometimes
worked and a couple of other labs scattered around the college. I would
occasionally work in those either tutoring or helping to do set up or
troubleshoot or whatever but mostly I worked in the library lab and the EDU
lab / cluster of labs.

> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.

I do not find it surprising at all that you continue your trolling with
silly insanitation and you fail to actually respond to a thing I said about
your question dealing with technology.

Remember: AS you were ending a four month circus game of trolling me about
your VPN task, you happened to ask a question about tech (well, really, a
question about MY life and how *I* worked with the tech). I focused mostly
on that... and you just continue to troll.

Seriously, try to move past that. I really think you could if you wanted.
Yes, you would have to deal with the wrath of those who troll COLA. You
would likely be rejected by the "advocates" for daring to reduce trolling
and not push circuses and instead focus on technology. I know that is a
challenge for many... they fear the ostracization and the attacks that will
inevitably come to ANYONE in COLA who does not join their trolling.


-- 
"When making pornography involves real abuse of real children ... that does
not excuse censorship. No matter how disgusting published works might be,
censorship is more disgusting." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 4:46:44 PM
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
> JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

(snip)

> > So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> > your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> 
> Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
> honorable.

So you want to offer him a contract, then, like you did with CSMA posters? Yeah... that was pretty fun, wasn't it? ;)

Hmmm... maybe he should consult with ed on the matter first. Your thoughts? LOL!
0
Steve
12/24/2016 4:57:44 PM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
> JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
> ... 
>>>>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
>>>>> for your trolling. Count on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)
>>> 
>>> You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how you
>>> can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
>>> not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
>>> instead of technology.
>>> 
>>> Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
>>> claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
>>> you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.
>>> 
>>> Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
>>> there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
>>> you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
>>> cannot show I said it.
>>> 
>>> And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
>>> you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
>>> complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
>>> shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
>>> and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
>>> will answer.
>>> 
>>> I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
>>> computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
>>> the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
>>> the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
>>> spreadsheet, and database but also other software).
>>> 
>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
>>> FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
>>> programming classes.
>>> 
>>> I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
>>> people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
>>> help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
>>> explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
>>> also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
>>> Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
>>> used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
>>> look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance -- of
>>> course not. But I did well.
>>> 
>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>> telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
>>> (yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
>>> command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
>>> that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
>>> list!). 
>>> 
>>> Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
>>> knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
>>> Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
>>> But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
>>> the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as I
>>> have shown -- I knew where its limits were.
>>> 
>>> From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
>>> systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
>>> of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
>>> could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
>>> for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
>>> myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
>>> system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
>>> they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.
>>> 
>>> That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
>>> network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!
>>> 
>>> Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
>>> piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
>>> AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)
>>> 
>>> But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
>>> another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
>>> Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
>>> lab.
>>> 
>>> At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
>>> clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not kept
>>> up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
>>> complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
>>> complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
>>> a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)
>>> 
>>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
>>> Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software. Whatever.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
>>> they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set them
>>> up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There were
>>> a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
>>> am not the one who set them up.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
>>> get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
>>> software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used my
>>> manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
>>> of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).
>>> 
>>> After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
>>> special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
>>> County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled the
>>> help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
>>> access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
>>> later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
>>> the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
>>> 200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
>>> something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
>>> classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
>>> the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
>>> class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
>>> Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got there).
>>> Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
>>> did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
>>> for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
>>> station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
>>> little with it.
>>> 
>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>> 
>>> Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
>>> it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
>>> not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
>>> students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
>>> not know the language they were using.
>>> 
>>> Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or Carroll
>>> or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
>>> open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
>>> their level or not.
>>> 
>>> With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer to
>>> you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
>>> over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).
>>> 
>>> Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things I
>>> do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
>>> I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.
>>> 
>>> That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the nonsense
>>> where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
>>> the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
>>> cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
>>> skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
>>> what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
>>> Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)
>>> 
>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>> 
>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>> 
>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
>
> Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
> honorable. I would like to see you focus on technology and even as you are
> trolling me and lying about me I showed a sign of peace by responding to
> your request to talk about technology. While I did not sweep your crap under
> the rug like you would like, I did not make it the focus.
>
> As far as your comments, seems you are pissed I called you out on your flat
> out lie about your last four months of trolling. One of those lies was:
>
>   Marek 1:
>     -----
>     Doesn't matter if you can do it.
>     -----
>
> But your whole focus, until the last couple of days, was that YOU could do
> what *I* could not. It was ALL about your ego. You went on and on and on
> about how I "lost" and even how the whole Mac community did. When I asked
> what I lost you never could say... it was not like I joined your pissing
> contest or pretended to know how to when I did not. It was all you
> fantasizing about some big tech battle between us that you "won" and where I
> was humiliated for not doing something I never suggested I could do.
>
> But, again, after about four months you DID finally answer the question and
> I commended you for it. Let us move on from it.
>
> And as a sign of doing just that... I saw elsewhere you spoke of what you
> saw as an inconsistency in my speaking of tech: referencing UNIX terminals
> in some places and UNIX machines in others.
>
> When I got the college they had ADM terminals... clunky one-piece things
> with a screen and keyboard. Later they got SUN machines with the optical
> mice. Maybe laser... not sure. Anyway, there was a lot of confusion for
> people -- they had never seen a mouse without a roller. To help clear up the
> confusion I printed a big banner on green-bar paper that let people know:
>
>     UNIX mice have no balls.
>
> OK, technically not correct but it was the mice on the UNIX machines and the
> banner had to be relatively short. For some reason my boss asked me to take
> it down. Weird. :)
>
> As time went on they got rid of the ADM terminals and moved to pure SUN
> workstations. 
>
> By the end of my six years there I was working in the EDU cluster of labs
> which focused on Macs. In the end they did not even keep the UNIX machines
> -- they were not used and were donated to another department (or traded or
> whatever). And the above is not going into all detail nor even mentioning
> all labs. There as also a lab in the humanities building where I sometimes
> worked and a couple of other labs scattered around the college. I would
> occasionally work in those either tutoring or helping to do set up or
> troubleshoot or whatever but mostly I worked in the library lab and the EDU
> lab / cluster of labs.
>
>> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.
>
> I do not find it surprising at all that you continue your trolling with
> silly insanitation and you fail to actually respond to a thing I said about
> your question dealing with technology.
>
> Remember: AS you were ending a four month circus game of trolling me about
> your VPN task, you happened to ask a question about tech (well, really, a
> question about MY life and how *I* worked with the tech). I focused mostly
> on that... and you just continue to troll.
>
> Seriously, try to move past that. I really think you could if you wanted.
> Yes, you would have to deal with the wrath of those who troll COLA. You
> would likely be rejected by the "advocates" for daring to reduce trolling
> and not push circuses and instead focus on technology. I know that is a
> challenge for many... they fear the ostracization and the attacks that will
> inevitably come to ANYONE in COLA who does not join their trolling.

No circus here Snit. You simply failed the challenge. And I bring it up
when you ask us to show things the Linux desktop makes easier than the
competition. If you don't want me to tell you what Linux makes easier
than the competition, don't ask. And by submitting that challenge I am
making saying Linux makes this easier. I don't have to tell you why I
think Linux makes it easier. It's simply up to you to show me how you'd
accomplish the same thing with the Mac. And then we can decide which was
in fact easier. I can't help it that you're so incompetent that you
can't even begin to show VPN working on the Mac at all. That's not my
problem. If you can't refute my claim then you can't. Sucks to be you. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 4:59:19 PM
On 12/24/16, 9:01 AM, in article
JdCdnerluPpRBsPFnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>>     -----
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>>> 
>>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>>> 
>>> You said the following:
>>> 
>>> // start
>>> 
>>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>>> 
>>> // end
>>> 
>>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>>> 
>>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g
> 
> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
> 
> // quote
> 
> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
> 
> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end
> 
> and in another post he says this...
> 
> // quote
> 
> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
> 
> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end quote
> 
> It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
> Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
> are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
> machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
> he ran the lab for 6 years.
> 
> And in a today's posts:
> 
> // quote
> 
> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
> remember.)
> 
> 
> D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end quote
> 
> In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
> rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
> wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
> fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
> called, Retrospect.

I did use that, later in other areas but I do not think I ever did at the
college. I have a friend who worked for the company: Dantz. The company was
named in honor of the wife of the guy who started the company who was a
dancer. Or so I was told.

> That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for system 9 and lower. Don't
> think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that would have stuck in my head since
> I love rsync and use it all the time. I even complain about how it doesn't
> support the HFS + resource fork on MacOSX, so I dunno...

It was not retrospect it was a Mac version of a UNIX utility... but, yeah,
while rsync is the first name that comes to mind I think it was something
different --  again, this was 20+ years ago and just cannot remember the
name. Just looked up old command line backup solutions and did not find it
for sure. Whatever.

I also used Mac cron... which got me into some bad habits that I was
attacked over when I first came to COLA. I asked some questions about cron
when I was trying to set up a Linux machine to run a bell system and ran
into challenges. It was largely from the installation being bad with the
Linux system... re-installed and all worked fine, but I also made some
errors in how I tried to launch items with cron.

Also cannot remember the name of the software that set up permissions on the
Classic Mac... even though I wrote a manual on how to set it up for the
labs. Again, 20+ years ago. Just did a quick search and could not find it.
Oh well.

Comes down to you asked for my experience and I have now shared in quite
some detail.

And, as I said, I know the "advocates" will troll me over it. Does not
matter to them if they are being honest or not. Heck, from one of the quotes
you referenced Peter already trolled me over it:

  Peter K�hlmann <https://goo.gl/sXbJLw>:
    -----
    | I am one of the few people who literally started working with
    | UNIX, PCs, and Macs all on the same day (sometime in Sept.
    | 1987). 
    Pull the other one. At that time there was no OSX. That came 14
    years later So you had no "Unix" to play with...
    -----

Yeah... Peter trolled me based on the mistaken idea that one could not have
used UNIX until Mac OS X appeared on the scene... as if Apple invented UNIX.

Just weird nonsense trolling like that... in other words, the norm of the
COLA "advocates." Of course, my every word is examined and I am asked about
it repeatedly... but NONE of the herd ever asked Peter to explain why he
thought one needed OS X to have used UNIX.

But no double standards in this group! :)



-- 
"All of these acts [prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality,
possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia] should be
legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of
prejudice and narrowmindedness." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 5:11:29 PM
On 12/24/16, 9:59 AM, in article
ZpednWWYyLH6NMPFnZ2dnUU7-XfNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
>> JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ... 
>>>>>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold
>>>>>> stars
>>>>>> for your trolling. Count on it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)
>>>> 
>>>> You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how
>>>> you
>>>> can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
>>>> not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
>>>> instead of technology.
>>>> 
>>>> Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
>>>> claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
>>>> you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.
>>>> 
>>>> Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
>>>> there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
>>>> you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
>>>> cannot show I said it.
>>>> 
>>>> And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
>>>> you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
>>>> complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
>>>> shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
>>>> and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
>>>> will answer.
>>>> 
>>>> I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
>>>> computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
>>>> the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
>>>> the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
>>>> spreadsheet, and database but also other software).
>>>> 
>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
>>>> FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
>>>> programming classes.
>>>> 
>>>> I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
>>>> people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
>>>> help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
>>>> explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
>>>> also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
>>>> Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
>>>> used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
>>>> look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance --
>>>> of
>>>> course not. But I did well.
>>>> 
>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and
>>>> vi
>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>> telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
>>>> (yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
>>>> command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
>>>> that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
>>>> list!). 
>>>> 
>>>> Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
>>>> knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
>>>> Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
>>>> But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
>>>> the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as
>>>> I
>>>> have shown -- I knew where its limits were.
>>>> 
>>>> From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
>>>> systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
>>>> of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
>>>> could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
>>>> for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
>>>> myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
>>>> system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
>>>> they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.
>>>> 
>>>> That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
>>>> network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!
>>>> 
>>>> Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
>>>> piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
>>>> AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)
>>>> 
>>>> But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
>>>> another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
>>>> Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
>>>> lab.
>>>> 
>>>> At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
>>>> clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not
>>>> kept
>>>> up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
>>>> complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
>>>> complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
>>>> a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)
>>>> 
>>>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>>>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>>>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
>>>> Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software.
>>>> Whatever.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
>>>> they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set
>>>> them
>>>> up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There
>>>> were
>>>> a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
>>>> am not the one who set them up.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
>>>> get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
>>>> software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used
>>>> my
>>>> manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
>>>> of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).
>>>> 
>>>> After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
>>>> special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
>>>> County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled
>>>> the
>>>> help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
>>>> access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
>>>> later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
>>>> the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
>>>> 200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
>>>> something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
>>>> classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
>>>> the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
>>>> class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
>>>> Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got
>>>> there).
>>>> Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
>>>> did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
>>>> for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
>>>> station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
>>>> little with it.
>>>> 
>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>> gives
>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>>> 
>>>> Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
>>>> it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
>>>> not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
>>>> students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
>>>> not know the language they were using.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or
>>>> Carroll
>>>> or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
>>>> open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
>>>> their level or not.
>>>> 
>>>> With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer
>>>> to
>>>> you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
>>>> over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).
>>>> 
>>>> Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things
>>>> I
>>>> do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
>>>> I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.
>>>> 
>>>> That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the
>>>> nonsense
>>>> where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
>>>> the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
>>>> cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
>>>> skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
>>>> what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
>>>> Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)
>>>> 
>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>> 
>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>> 
>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
>> 
>> Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
>> honorable. I would like to see you focus on technology and even as you are
>> trolling me and lying about me I showed a sign of peace by responding to
>> your request to talk about technology. While I did not sweep your crap under
>> the rug like you would like, I did not make it the focus.
>> 
>> As far as your comments, seems you are pissed I called you out on your flat
>> out lie about your last four months of trolling. One of those lies was:
>> 
>>   Marek 1:
>>     -----
>>     Doesn't matter if you can do it.
>>     -----
>> 
>> But your whole focus, until the last couple of days, was that YOU could do
>> what *I* could not. It was ALL about your ego. You went on and on and on
>> about how I "lost" and even how the whole Mac community did. When I asked
>> what I lost you never could say... it was not like I joined your pissing
>> contest or pretended to know how to when I did not. It was all you
>> fantasizing about some big tech battle between us that you "won" and where I
>> was humiliated for not doing something I never suggested I could do.
>> 
>> But, again, after about four months you DID finally answer the question and
>> I commended you for it. Let us move on from it.
>> 
>> And as a sign of doing just that... I saw elsewhere you spoke of what you
>> saw as an inconsistency in my speaking of tech: referencing UNIX terminals
>> in some places and UNIX machines in others.
>> 
>> When I got the college they had ADM terminals... clunky one-piece things
>> with a screen and keyboard. Later they got SUN machines with the optical
>> mice. Maybe laser... not sure. Anyway, there was a lot of confusion for
>> people -- they had never seen a mouse without a roller. To help clear up the
>> confusion I printed a big banner on green-bar paper that let people know:
>> 
>>     UNIX mice have no balls.
>> 
>> OK, technically not correct but it was the mice on the UNIX machines and the
>> banner had to be relatively short. For some reason my boss asked me to take
>> it down. Weird. :)
>> 
>> As time went on they got rid of the ADM terminals and moved to pure SUN
>> workstations. 
>> 
>> By the end of my six years there I was working in the EDU cluster of labs
>> which focused on Macs. In the end they did not even keep the UNIX machines
>> -- they were not used and were donated to another department (or traded or
>> whatever). And the above is not going into all detail nor even mentioning
>> all labs. There as also a lab in the humanities building where I sometimes
>> worked and a couple of other labs scattered around the college. I would
>> occasionally work in those either tutoring or helping to do set up or
>> troubleshoot or whatever but mostly I worked in the library lab and the EDU
>> lab / cluster of labs.
>> 
>>> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.
>> 
>> I do not find it surprising at all that you continue your trolling with
>> silly insanitation and you fail to actually respond to a thing I said about
>> your question dealing with technology.
>> 
>> Remember: AS you were ending a four month circus game of trolling me about
>> your VPN task, you happened to ask a question about tech (well, really, a
>> question about MY life and how *I* worked with the tech). I focused mostly
>> on that... and you just continue to troll.
>> 
>> Seriously, try to move past that. I really think you could if you wanted.
>> Yes, you would have to deal with the wrath of those who troll COLA. You
>> would likely be rejected by the "advocates" for daring to reduce trolling
>> and not push circuses and instead focus on technology. I know that is a
>> challenge for many... they fear the ostracization and the attacks that will
>> inevitably come to ANYONE in COLA who does not join their trolling.
> 
> No circus here Snit. You simply failed the challenge.

And there you go: pushing your circus again. Sigh.

> And I bring it up when you ask us to show things the Linux desktop makes
> easier than the competition.

Why do you feel the need to rehash this AGAIN! Yes, Linux makes it slightly
easier in that openVNC is easier to install. You got your gold star!

> If you don't want me to tell you what Linux makes easier than the competition,
> don't ask. 

How about you just work on taking less than FOUR MONTHS to answer the damned
question... and even then your answer is frankly pretty weak: Linux makes it
easier because openVNC is easier to install.

I am sure we can come up with many other tasks where the known solutions are
done in the command line where Linux does great. It is a great command line
solution. 

> And by submitting that challenge I am making saying Linux makes this easier. I
> don't have to tell you why I think Linux makes it easier. It's simply up to
> you to show me how you'd accomplish the same thing with the Mac. And then we
> can decide which was in fact easier. I can't help it that you're so
> incompetent that you can't even begin to show VPN working on the Mac at all.
> That's not my problem. If you can't refute my claim then you can't. Sucks to
> be you. 

Good grief... four months of trolling me on your circus there was not enough
for you. You want to keep going with your nonense.

Sigh.


-- 
"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children."
-- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 5:15:53 PM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 9:01 AM, in article
> JdCdnerluPpRBsPFnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>>>> 
>>>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
>>>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>>>> 
>>>> You said the following:
>>>> 
>>>> // start
>>>> 
>>>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>>>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>>>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>>>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>>>> 
>>>> // end
>>>> 
>>>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>>>> 
>>>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g
>> 
>> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
>> 
>> // quote
>> 
>> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
>> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
>> 
>> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> // end
>> 
>> and in another post he says this...
>> 
>> // quote
>> 
>> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
>> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
>> 
>> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> // end quote
>> 
>> It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
>> Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
>> are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
>> machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
>> he ran the lab for 6 years.
>> 
>> And in a today's posts:
>> 
>> // quote
>> 
>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
>> remember.)
>> 
>> 
>> D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> // end quote
>> 
>> In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
>> rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
>> wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
>> fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
>> called, Retrospect.
>
> I did use that, later in other areas but I do not think I ever did at the
> college. I have a friend who worked for the company: Dantz. The company was
> named in honor of the wife of the guy who started the company who was a
> dancer. Or so I was told.
>
>> That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for system 9 and lower. Don't
>> think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that would have stuck in my head since
>> I love rsync and use it all the time. I even complain about how it doesn't
>> support the HFS + resource fork on MacOSX, so I dunno...
>
> It was not retrospect it was a Mac version of a UNIX utility... but, yeah,
> while rsync is the first name that comes to mind I think it was something
> different --  again, this was 20+ years ago and just cannot remember the
> name. Just looked up old command line backup solutions and did not find it
> for sure. Whatever.
>
> I also used Mac cron... which got me into some bad habits that I was
> attacked over when I first came to COLA. I asked some questions about cron
> when I was trying to set up a Linux machine to run a bell system and ran
> into challenges. It was largely from the installation being bad with the
> Linux system... re-installed and all worked fine, but I also made some
> errors in how I tried to launch items with cron.
>
> Also cannot remember the name of the software that set up permissions on the
> Classic Mac... even though I wrote a manual on how to set it up for the
> labs. Again, 20+ years ago. Just did a quick search and could not find it.
> Oh well.
>
> Comes down to you asked for my experience and I have now shared in quite
> some detail.
>
> And, as I said, I know the "advocates" will troll me over it. Does not
> matter to them if they are being honest or not. Heck, from one of the quotes
> you referenced Peter already trolled me over it:
>
>   Peter Köhlmann <https://goo.gl/sXbJLw>:
>     -----
>     | I am one of the few people who literally started working with
>     | UNIX, PCs, and Macs all on the same day (sometime in Sept.
>     | 1987). 
>     Pull the other one. At that time there was no OSX. That came 14
>     years later So you had no "Unix" to play with...
>     -----
>
> Yeah... Peter trolled me based on the mistaken idea that one could not have
> used UNIX until Mac OS X appeared on the scene... as if Apple invented UNIX.
>
> Just weird nonsense trolling like that... in other words, the norm of the
> COLA "advocates." Of course, my every word is examined and I am asked about
> it repeatedly... but NONE of the herd ever asked Peter to explain why he
> thought one needed OS X to have used UNIX.
>
> But no double standards in this group! :)

A troll being trolled is just payback. And you're the most dishonest
lying troll I've met so far. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 5:19:57 PM
On 12/24/16, 10:19 AM, in article
jMudnRpHAf-gM8PFnZ2dnUU7-aPNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 12/24/16, 9:01 AM, in article
>> JdCdnerluPpRBsPFnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>>>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You said the following:
>>>>> 
>>>>> // start
>>>>> 
>>>>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>>>>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>>>>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>>>>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>>>>> 
>>>>> // end
>>>>> 
>>>>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g
>>> 
>>> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
>>> 
>>> // quote
>>> 
>>> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
>>> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
>>> 
>>> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>> 
>>> // end
>>> 
>>> and in another post he says this...
>>> 
>>> // quote
>>> 
>>> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
>>> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
>>> 
>>> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>> 
>>> // end quote
>>> 
>>> It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
>>> Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
>>> are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
>>> machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
>>> he ran the lab for 6 years.
>>> 
>>> And in a today's posts:
>>> 
>>> // quote
>>> 
>>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
>>> remember.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>> 
>>> // end quote
>>> 
>>> In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
>>> rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
>>> wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
>>> fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
>>> called, Retrospect.
>> 
>> I did use that, later in other areas but I do not think I ever did at the
>> college. I have a friend who worked for the company: Dantz. The company was
>> named in honor of the wife of the guy who started the company who was a
>> dancer. Or so I was told.
>> 
>>> That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for system 9 and lower.
>>> Don't
>>> think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that would have stuck in my head
>>> since
>>> I love rsync and use it all the time. I even complain about how it doesn't
>>> support the HFS + resource fork on MacOSX, so I dunno...
>> 
>> It was not retrospect it was a Mac version of a UNIX utility... but, yeah,
>> while rsync is the first name that comes to mind I think it was something
>> different --  again, this was 20+ years ago and just cannot remember the
>> name. Just looked up old command line backup solutions and did not find it
>> for sure. Whatever.
>> 
>> I also used Mac cron... which got me into some bad habits that I was
>> attacked over when I first came to COLA. I asked some questions about cron
>> when I was trying to set up a Linux machine to run a bell system and ran
>> into challenges. It was largely from the installation being bad with the
>> Linux system... re-installed and all worked fine, but I also made some
>> errors in how I tried to launch items with cron.
>> 
>> Also cannot remember the name of the software that set up permissions on the
>> Classic Mac... even though I wrote a manual on how to set it up for the
>> labs. Again, 20+ years ago. Just did a quick search and could not find it.
>> Oh well.
>> 
>> Comes down to you asked for my experience and I have now shared in quite
>> some detail.
>> 
>> And, as I said, I know the "advocates" will troll me over it. Does not
>> matter to them if they are being honest or not. Heck, from one of the quotes
>> you referenced Peter already trolled me over it:
>> 
>>   Peter K�hlmann <https://goo.gl/sXbJLw>:
>>     -----
>>     | I am one of the few people who literally started working with
>>     | UNIX, PCs, and Macs all on the same day (sometime in Sept.
>>     | 1987). 
>>     Pull the other one. At that time there was no OSX. That came 14
>>     years later So you had no "Unix" to play with...
>>     -----
>> 
>> Yeah... Peter trolled me based on the mistaken idea that one could not have
>> used UNIX until Mac OS X appeared on the scene... as if Apple invented UNIX.
>> 
>> Just weird nonsense trolling like that... in other words, the norm of the
>> COLA "advocates." Of course, my every word is examined and I am asked about
>> it repeatedly... but NONE of the herd ever asked Peter to explain why he
>> thought one needed OS X to have used UNIX.
>> 
>> But no double standards in this group! :)
> 
> A troll being trolled is just payback. And you're the most dishonest
> lying troll I've met so far.

And you cannot let go of your circus. Comes down to you cannot actually show
me doing what you accuse but you use your accusations to excuse your own
trolling... and your trolling is likely done because you fear being
ostracized by the COLA herd.

The psychology of the COLA "advocates" and others who troll is truly
fascinating to me.

But to get back to the topic: you asked me about my work in the UNLV labs. I
think we can safely say I have given you a very complete answer! Hopefully
you are satisfied... but I suspect you will just troll me over it. Surely
others in COLA will.



-- 
"It is often hard to persuade the developers of one component to do what
improves the system as a whole rather than what will make their own
component more useful and successful." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 5:23:33 PM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 10:19 AM, in article
> jMudnRpHAf-gM8PFnZ2dnUU7-aPNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/24/16, 9:01 AM, in article
>>> JdCdnerluPpRBsPFnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>>>>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>>>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You said the following:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> // start
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>>>>>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>>>>>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>>>>>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> // end
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g
>>>> 
>>>> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
>>>> 
>>>> // quote
>>>> 
>>>> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
>>>> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
>>>> 
>>>> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>>> 
>>>> // end
>>>> 
>>>> and in another post he says this...
>>>> 
>>>> // quote
>>>> 
>>>> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
>>>> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
>>>> 
>>>> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>>> 
>>>> // end quote
>>>> 
>>>> It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
>>>> Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
>>>> are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
>>>> machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
>>>> he ran the lab for 6 years.
>>>> 
>>>> And in a today's posts:
>>>> 
>>>> // quote
>>>> 
>>>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>>>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>>>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
>>>> remember.)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>>> 
>>>> // end quote
>>>> 
>>>> In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
>>>> rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
>>>> wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
>>>> fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
>>>> called, Retrospect.
>>> 
>>> I did use that, later in other areas but I do not think I ever did at the
>>> college. I have a friend who worked for the company: Dantz. The company was
>>> named in honor of the wife of the guy who started the company who was a
>>> dancer. Or so I was told.
>>> 
>>>> That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for system 9 and lower.
>>>> Don't
>>>> think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that would have stuck in my head
>>>> since
>>>> I love rsync and use it all the time. I even complain about how it doesn't
>>>> support the HFS + resource fork on MacOSX, so I dunno...
>>> 
>>> It was not retrospect it was a Mac version of a UNIX utility... but, yeah,
>>> while rsync is the first name that comes to mind I think it was something
>>> different --  again, this was 20+ years ago and just cannot remember the
>>> name. Just looked up old command line backup solutions and did not find it
>>> for sure. Whatever.
>>> 
>>> I also used Mac cron... which got me into some bad habits that I was
>>> attacked over when I first came to COLA. I asked some questions about cron
>>> when I was trying to set up a Linux machine to run a bell system and ran
>>> into challenges. It was largely from the installation being bad with the
>>> Linux system... re-installed and all worked fine, but I also made some
>>> errors in how I tried to launch items with cron.
>>> 
>>> Also cannot remember the name of the software that set up permissions on the
>>> Classic Mac... even though I wrote a manual on how to set it up for the
>>> labs. Again, 20+ years ago. Just did a quick search and could not find it.
>>> Oh well.
>>> 
>>> Comes down to you asked for my experience and I have now shared in quite
>>> some detail.
>>> 
>>> And, as I said, I know the "advocates" will troll me over it. Does not
>>> matter to them if they are being honest or not. Heck, from one of the quotes
>>> you referenced Peter already trolled me over it:
>>> 
>>>   Peter Köhlmann <https://goo.gl/sXbJLw>:
>>>     -----
>>>     | I am one of the few people who literally started working with
>>>     | UNIX, PCs, and Macs all on the same day (sometime in Sept.
>>>     | 1987). 
>>>     Pull the other one. At that time there was no OSX. That came 14
>>>     years later So you had no "Unix" to play with...
>>>     -----
>>> 
>>> Yeah... Peter trolled me based on the mistaken idea that one could not have
>>> used UNIX until Mac OS X appeared on the scene... as if Apple invented UNIX.
>>> 
>>> Just weird nonsense trolling like that... in other words, the norm of the
>>> COLA "advocates." Of course, my every word is examined and I am asked about
>>> it repeatedly... but NONE of the herd ever asked Peter to explain why he
>>> thought one needed OS X to have used UNIX.
>>> 
>>> But no double standards in this group! :)
>> 
>> A troll being trolled is just payback. And you're the most dishonest
>> lying troll I've met so far.
>
> And you cannot let go of your circus. Comes down to you cannot actually show
> me doing what you accuse but you use your accusations to excuse your own
> trolling... and your trolling is likely done because you fear being
> ostracized by the COLA herd.

We show it all the time. Ignoring the truth doesn't make it go away
Snit. And by the way, you just lied again. You lie every day. It's
chronic with you. Get it, cron.... now Chronic. HAHAHHAHAHA

> The psychology of the COLA "advocates" and others who troll is truly
> fascinating to me.

Blah blah blah.... Your little deflection when hit with the truth.
You're a pathetic open book, Glasser. We see your bullshit a mile away. 

> But to get back to the topic: you asked me about my work in the UNLV labs. I
> think we can safely say I have given you a very complete answer! Hopefully
> you are satisfied... but I suspect you will just troll me over it. Surely
> others in COLA will.

::yawn:: 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 5:36:39 PM
On 12/24/16, 10:36 AM, in article
v8adnUD9EO-6L8PFnZ2dnUU7-Q-dnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 12/24/16, 10:19 AM, in article
>> jMudnRpHAf-gM8PFnZ2dnUU7-aPNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> On 12/24/16, 9:01 AM, in article
>>>> JdCdnerluPpRBsPFnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
>>>>>>>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said.
>>>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
>>>>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
>>>>>>>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>>>>>>>>     -----
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
>>>>>>>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You said the following:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> // start
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a
>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and
>>>>>>> Macs.
>>>>>>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>>>>>>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> // end
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You mentioned UNIX first.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> // quote
>>>>> 
>>>>> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
>>>>> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
>>>>> 
>>>>> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> // end
>>>>> 
>>>>> and in another post he says this...
>>>>> 
>>>>> // quote
>>>>> 
>>>>> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
>>>>> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
>>>>> 
>>>>> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> // end quote
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
>>>>> Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
>>>>> are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
>>>>> machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
>>>>> he ran the lab for 6 years.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And in a today's posts:
>>>>> 
>>>>> // quote
>>>>> 
>>>>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
>>>>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
>>>>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
>>>>> remember.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> // end quote
>>>>> 
>>>>> In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
>>>>> rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
>>>>> wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
>>>>> fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
>>>>> called, Retrospect.
>>>> 
>>>> I did use that, later in other areas but I do not think I ever did at the
>>>> college. I have a friend who worked for the company: Dantz. The company was
>>>> named in honor of the wife of the guy who started the company who was a
>>>> dancer. Or so I was told.
>>>> 
>>>>> That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for system 9 and lower.
>>>>> Don't
>>>>> think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that would have stuck in my head
>>>>> since
>>>>> I love rsync and use it all the time. I even complain about how it doesn't
>>>>> support the HFS + resource fork on MacOSX, so I dunno...
>>>> 
>>>> It was not retrospect it was a Mac version of a UNIX utility... but, yeah,
>>>> while rsync is the first name that comes to mind I think it was something
>>>> different --  again, this was 20+ years ago and just cannot remember the
>>>> name. Just looked up old command line backup solutions and did not find it
>>>> for sure. Whatever.
>>>> 
>>>> I also used Mac cron... which got me into some bad habits that I was
>>>> attacked over when I first came to COLA. I asked some questions about cron
>>>> when I was trying to set up a Linux machine to run a bell system and ran
>>>> into challenges. It was largely from the installation being bad with the
>>>> Linux system... re-installed and all worked fine, but I also made some
>>>> errors in how I tried to launch items with cron.
>>>> 
>>>> Also cannot remember the name of the software that set up permissions on
>>>> the
>>>> Classic Mac... even though I wrote a manual on how to set it up for the
>>>> labs. Again, 20+ years ago. Just did a quick search and could not find it.
>>>> Oh well.
>>>> 
>>>> Comes down to you asked for my experience and I have now shared in quite
>>>> some detail.
>>>> 
>>>> And, as I said, I know the "advocates" will troll me over it. Does not
>>>> matter to them if they are being honest or not. Heck, from one of the
>>>> quotes
>>>> you referenced Peter already trolled me over it:
>>>> 
>>>>   Peter K�hlmann <https://goo.gl/sXbJLw>:
>>>>     -----
>>>>     | I am one of the few people who literally started working with
>>>>     | UNIX, PCs, and Macs all on the same day (sometime in Sept.
>>>>     | 1987). 
>>>>     Pull the other one. At that time there was no OSX. That came 14
>>>>     years later So you had no "Unix" to play with...
>>>>     -----
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah... Peter trolled me based on the mistaken idea that one could not have
>>>> used UNIX until Mac OS X appeared on the scene... as if Apple invented
>>>> UNIX.
>>>> 
>>>> Just weird nonsense trolling like that... in other words, the norm of the
>>>> COLA "advocates." Of course, my every word is examined and I am asked about
>>>> it repeatedly... but NONE of the herd ever asked Peter to explain why he
>>>> thought one needed OS X to have used UNIX.
>>>> 
>>>> But no double standards in this group! :)
>>> 
>>> A troll being trolled is just payback. And you're the most dishonest
>>> lying troll I've met so far.
>> 
>> And you cannot let go of your circus. Comes down to you cannot actually show
>> me doing what you accuse but you use your accusations to excuse your own
>> trolling... and your trolling is likely done because you fear being
>> ostracized by the COLA herd.
> 
> We show it all the time. Ignoring the truth doesn't make it go away
> Snit. And by the way, you just lied again. You lie every day. It's
> chronic with you. Get it, cron.... now Chronic. HAHAHHAHAHA
> 
>> The psychology of the COLA "advocates" and others who troll is truly
>> fascinating to me.
> 
> Blah blah blah.... Your little deflection when hit with the truth.
> You're a pathetic open book, Glasser. We see your bullshit a mile away.
> 
>> But to get back to the topic: you asked me about my work in the UNLV labs. I
>> think we can safely say I have given you a very complete answer! Hopefully
>> you are satisfied... but I suspect you will just troll me over it. Surely
>> others in COLA will.
> 
> ::yawn:: 

All my damned unquotable lies. Got it. You fear upsetting the "advocates."

Well, Happy Chrismahanukwanzakah to you anyway.


-- 
"This doesn't mean our work is over; most GNU/Linux distros today contain
nonfree software, and there are more things that we expect a system to do."
-- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 5:47:03 PM
On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:57:46 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> > On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
> > JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> > <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
> > > So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> > > your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> > 
> > Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
> > honorable.
> 
> So you want to offer him a contract, then, like you did with CSMA posters? Yeah... that was pretty fun, wasn't it? ;)
> 
> Hmmm... maybe he should consult with ed on the matter first. Your thoughts? LOL!

Why don't you agree to stop trolling and lying?
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:01:10 PM
On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:59:26 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
> > JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> ><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >
> > ... 
> >>>>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
> >>>>> for your trolling. Count on it.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)
> >>> 
> >>> You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how you
> >>> can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
> >>> not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
> >>> instead of technology.
> >>> 
> >>> Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
> >>> claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
> >>> you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.
> >>> 
> >>> Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
> >>> there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
> >>> you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
> >>> cannot show I said it.
> >>> 
> >>> And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
> >>> you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
> >>> complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
> >>> shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
> >>> and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
> >>> will answer.
> >>> 
> >>> I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
> >>> computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
> >>> the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
> >>> the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
> >>> spreadsheet, and database but also other software).
> >>> 
> >>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
> >>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
> >>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
> >>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
> >>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
> >>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
> >>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
> >>> FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
> >>> programming classes.
> >>> 
> >>> I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
> >>> people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
> >>> help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
> >>> explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
> >>> also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
> >>> Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
> >>> used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
> >>> look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance -- of
> >>> course not. But I did well.
> >>> 
> >>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
> >>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
> >>> telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
> >>> (yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
> >>> command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
> >>> that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
> >>> list!). 
> >>> 
> >>> Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
> >>> knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
> >>> Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
> >>> But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
> >>> the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as I
> >>> have shown -- I knew where its limits were.
> >>> 
> >>> From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
> >>> systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
> >>> of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
> >>> could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
> >>> for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
> >>> myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
> >>> system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
> >>> they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.
> >>> 
> >>> That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
> >>> network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!
> >>> 
> >>> Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
> >>> piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
> >>> AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)
> >>> 
> >>> But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
> >>> another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
> >>> Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
> >>> lab.
> >>> 
> >>> At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
> >>> clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not kept
> >>> up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
> >>> complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
> >>> complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
> >>> a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)
> >>> 
> >>> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
> >>> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
> >>> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
> >>> Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software. Whatever.
> >>> 
> >>> Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
> >>> they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set them
> >>> up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There were
> >>> a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
> >>> am not the one who set them up.
> >>> 
> >>> Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
> >>> get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
> >>> software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used my
> >>> manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
> >>> of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).
> >>> 
> >>> After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
> >>> special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
> >>> County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled the
> >>> help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
> >>> access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
> >>> later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
> >>> the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
> >>> 200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
> >>> something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
> >>> classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
> >>> the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
> >>> class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
> >>> Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got there).
> >>> Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
> >>> did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
> >>> for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
> >>> station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
> >>> little with it.
> >>> 
> >>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
> >>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
> >>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
> >>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
> >>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
> >>> 
> >>> Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
> >>> it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
> >>> not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
> >>> students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
> >>> not know the language they were using.
> >>> 
> >>> Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or Carroll
> >>> or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
> >>> open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
> >>> their level or not.
> >>> 
> >>> With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer to
> >>> you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
> >>> over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).
> >>> 
> >>> Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things I
> >>> do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
> >>> I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.
> >>> 
> >>> That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the nonsense
> >>> where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
> >>> the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
> >>> cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
> >>> skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
> >>> what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
> >>> Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)
> >>> 
> >>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
> >>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
> >>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
> >>> 
> >>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
> >> 
> >> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> >> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> >
> > Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
> > honorable. I would like to see you focus on technology and even as you are
> > trolling me and lying about me I showed a sign of peace by responding to
> > your request to talk about technology. While I did not sweep your crap under
> > the rug like you would like, I did not make it the focus.
> >
> > As far as your comments, seems you are pissed I called you out on your flat
> > out lie about your last four months of trolling. One of those lies was:
> >
> >   Marek 1:
> >     -----
> >     Doesn't matter if you can do it.
> >     -----
> >
> > But your whole focus, until the last couple of days, was that YOU could do
> > what *I* could not. It was ALL about your ego. You went on and on and on
> > about how I "lost" and even how the whole Mac community did. When I asked
> > what I lost you never could say... it was not like I joined your pissing
> > contest or pretended to know how to when I did not. It was all you
> > fantasizing about some big tech battle between us that you "won" and where I
> > was humiliated for not doing something I never suggested I could do.
> >
> > But, again, after about four months you DID finally answer the question and
> > I commended you for it. Let us move on from it.
> >
> > And as a sign of doing just that... I saw elsewhere you spoke of what you
> > saw as an inconsistency in my speaking of tech: referencing UNIX terminals
> > in some places and UNIX machines in others.
> >
> > When I got the college they had ADM terminals... clunky one-piece things
> > with a screen and keyboard. Later they got SUN machines with the optical
> > mice. Maybe laser... not sure. Anyway, there was a lot of confusion for
> > people -- they had never seen a mouse without a roller. To help clear up the
> > confusion I printed a big banner on green-bar paper that let people know:
> >
> >     UNIX mice have no balls.
> >
> > OK, technically not correct but it was the mice on the UNIX machines and the
> > banner had to be relatively short. For some reason my boss asked me to take
> > it down. Weird. :)
> >
> > As time went on they got rid of the ADM terminals and moved to pure SUN
> > workstations. 
> >
> > By the end of my six years there I was working in the EDU cluster of labs
> > which focused on Macs. In the end they did not even keep the UNIX machines
> > -- they were not used and were donated to another department (or traded or
> > whatever). And the above is not going into all detail nor even mentioning
> > all labs. There as also a lab in the humanities building where I sometimes
> > worked and a couple of other labs scattered around the college. I would
> > occasionally work in those either tutoring or helping to do set up or
> > troubleshoot or whatever but mostly I worked in the library lab and the EDU
> > lab / cluster of labs.
> >
> >> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.
> >
> > I do not find it surprising at all that you continue your trolling with
> > silly insanitation and you fail to actually respond to a thing I said about
> > your question dealing with technology.
> >
> > Remember: AS you were ending a four month circus game of trolling me about
> > your VPN task, you happened to ask a question about tech (well, really, a
> > question about MY life and how *I* worked with the tech). I focused mostly
> > on that... and you just continue to troll.
> >
> > Seriously, try to move past that. I really think you could if you wanted.
> > Yes, you would have to deal with the wrath of those who troll COLA. You
> > would likely be rejected by the "advocates" for daring to reduce trolling
> > and not push circuses and instead focus on technology. I know that is a
> > challenge for many... they fear the ostracization and the attacks that will
> > inevitably come to ANYONE in COLA who does not join their trolling.
> 
> No circus here Snit. You simply failed the challenge. And I bring it up
> when you ask us to show things the Linux desktop makes easier than the
> competition. If you don't want me to tell you what Linux makes easier
> than the competition, don't ask. And by submitting that challenge I am
> making saying Linux makes this easier. I don't have to tell you why I
> think Linux makes it easier. It's simply up to you to show me how you'd
> accomplish the same thing with the Mac. And then we can decide which was
> in fact easier. I can't help it that you're so incompetent that you
> can't even begin to show VPN working on the Mac at all. That's not my
> problem. If you can't refute my claim then you can't. Sucks to be you. 
> 
> -- 
> Marek Novotny
> https://github.com/marek-novotny

Stop begging for Snit's attention.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:01:23 PM
On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > On 12/23/16, 10:12 PM, in article
> > FdOdnaxKR6BVnsPFnZ2dnUU7-SvNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> ><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
> >>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> >>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
> >>>>>     -----
> >>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
> >>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> >>>>>     -----
> >>>> 
> >>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
> >>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
> >>> 
> >>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
> >>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
> >> 
> >> You said the following:
> >> 
> >> // start
> >> 
> >> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> >> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> >> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> >> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> >> 
> >> // end
> >> 
> >> You mentioned UNIX first.
> >> 
> >> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
> >> 
> >> // start
> >> 
> >> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
> >> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
> >> 
> >> // end
> >> 
> >> And it yet another post, you say it like this:
> >> 
> >> // start
> >> 
> >> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
> >> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
> >> 
> >> // end
> >> 
> >> So, I have to ask, what exactly did you learn on these UNIX terminals?
> >> 
> >>> There is a difference between working in a lab with such machines and
> >>> helping people with the software on them and running the lab itself. A huge
> >>> difference.
> >> 
> >> Do tell. What exactly did you do with UNIX? What version?
> >> 
> >>> With that said, hey, you remembered me talking about running labs and also
> >>> about UNIX being in the labs. You did the honest thing and even pulled up
> >>> quotes. That would be fine -- as would just asking me.
> >>> 
> >>> Now you have seen the quotes and heard where you went wrong. No big deal.
> >>> 
> >>> Just don't troll over it, please. Fair enough.
> >>> 
> >>>>> You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.
> >>>> 
> >>>> You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
> >>>> Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
> >>>> Sounds correct to me.
> >>> 
> >>> That is not at all correct, as you know. Now you are just trolling.
> >>> Remember, Peter specifically said he wanted a GUI tool so I found a GUI
> >>> tool. I *never* said one had to use that tool.
> >> 
> >> Peter said out of the box, not 3rd party. Selective memory much?
> >> 
> >>> That is where you go wrong... you just make things up about other people and
> >>> then stick it no matter how wrong you are. Look how long it took you to say
> >>> you thought your VPN task was easier on Linux than on macOS... MONTHS.
> >> 
> >> I said it was easier by making it the challenge. That's the whole point
> >> of the challenge and I repeated this a zillion times, liar.
> >> 
> >>> You spend a LOT of time on your own ego and not on tech. When you focus on
> >>> tech, though, you actually present yourself well.
> >> 
> >> Na, you just like saying that cause you like misdirection.
> >> 
> >>>> I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.
> >>> 
> >>> I used UNIX... and helped people with it. I was not the one setting up the
> >>> network. 
> >> 
> >> What did you use it for? Describe some things typical at that time done
> >> in UNIX in that lab.
> >> 
> >>>> Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
> >>>> were connected to anything? Some lab...
> >>> 
> >>> See: this is you just twisting. Again, I did not set up the UNIX machines.
> >>> Not sure what else to tell you. Maybe you want to go around and around on it
> >>> for months before you get it, like you did with your VPN challenge?
> >>> 
> >>> Just silly.
> >>> 
> >>>> And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
> >>>> those six years, nothing? LOL.
> >>> 
> >>> See: that is just trolling from you. Instead of going through all I did I
> >>> will tell you AGAIN: I did not set up the networking on the UNIX machines.
> >> 
> >> // quote from you
> >> 
> >> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
> >> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
> >> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
> >> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
> >> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
> >> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1.
> >> 
> >> // end quote
> >> 
> >> So according to that post YOU RAN THE LAB. And you were a big fan of
> >> UNIX according to your own post. You did this for 6 years!! You're
> >> telling me a BIG FAN OF UNIX who RAN THE LAB for 6 years and you never
> >> setup a single UNIX machine? You never used NFS? Cause the way you setup
> >> NFS on the Mac, is via the nfs daemon. This is OLD SCHOOL. Why did you
> >> need to run a GUI utility to do it having run an Apple Lab for 6 years
> >> where you had UNIX and was BIG FAN OF UNIX. Doesn't add up to me at all.
> >> What other way is there to share volumes in UNIX back in the days of
> >> DOS? See I'm pretty sure NFS was around during your lab time... I don't
> >> think SMB was, and if it was it sure wasn't popular...  So was this lab
> >> a bunch of islands, or were the computers connected to something?
> >> 
> >>> Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend... other than you are
> >>> just trolling.
> >> 
> >> Just trying to get a feel for what this lab actually was and what your
> >> so-called experience actually was.
> >> 
> >>>>> Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
> >>>>> big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
> >>>>> with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it.
> >>> 
> >>> And here you go... pushing your newest circus. Good grief.
> >>> 
> >>>>> Feel free to prove me wrong.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I think your posts already do that.
> >>> 
> >>> LOL! You are pushing to start a new circus now that your several-month long
> >>> one over VPN came to a crash around you when you finally answered the
> >>> question I asked at the very start, and now you seek to start a new one.
> >> 
> >> You're the one who told me I was lying so I pulled some old posts to
> >> hash it out. 
> >> 
> >>> But do not worry... those who troll COLA will give you even more gold stars
> >>> for your trolling. Count on it.
> >>> 
> >>> Hope you have a big storage unit to hold them all. :)
> >
> > You just ended a four month circus where you focused on your ego and how you
> > can complete a task I cannot (one which requires a VPN host of which I do
> > not even have). Four months of you going on and on and on about you vs. me
> > instead of technology.
> >
> > Then, when you ended that game, you decided to make up a story about my
> > claiming to have set up the networking for UNIX machines in a lab. I noted
> > you were incorrect and NONE of your quotes says what you claim.
> >
> > Instead of being mature about it and admitting you goofed -- hey, I noted
> > there was UNIX in the labs and your error could have been an honest one --
> > you just doubled down on your claims. Claims of what *I* said though you
> > cannot show I said it.
> >
> > And now you want me to tell you what I did in those labs. Sigh. Well, hey,
> > you know me -- I am honest and open to a fault. Even though it would make
> > complete sense to tell you to shove your nonsense games where the sun don't
> > shine, you asked me about technology. Sure, you did it as you lied about me
> > and as you pushed your circus, but the question is about tech. So, yeah, I
> > will answer.
> >
> > I got a job at UNLV in 1987. At first the job was to help people with the
> > computer -- this was the library lab and it had Macs, PCs (DOS machines at
> > the time), and UNIX terminals. I knew nothing of any of them but I did know
> > the Apple IIe relatively well (esp. AppleWorks which had a word processor,
> > spreadsheet, and database but also other software).
> >
> > Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
> > where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
> > the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
> > Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
> > earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
> > progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
> > tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software... and programmed in C, Pascal,
> > FORTRAN, and other languages. I am not a programmer but I did take some
> > programming classes.
> >
> > I did well. Our job as tutors was not to know the languages but to help
> > people just navigate the systems... but I became known for being able to
> > help people with their software. Some of it was my just asking them to
> > explain things line by line and they often found their own errors, but I
> > also have a good sense of the logic of programming and used that as well.
> > Was I a top programmer -- not at all. Did I even know most of the languages
> > used... nope. Was I perfect and some form of Hollywood genius would could
> > look at the code and tell the person where they went wrong at a glance -- of
> > course not. But I did well.
> >
> > But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
> > (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
> > telnet (or maybe I knew that before from BBS? Do not recall) and gopher
> > (yeah, gopher!) and things such as piping and regex and other basic UNIX
> > command line concepts and commands (not going to try to list them all...
> > that would be silly, just know the above is clearly not meant as a fully
> > list!). 
> >
> > Not that I was an expert in any of them. I have forgotten much of what I
> > knew of regex and even at my "prime" I was never good with it... I see what
> > Owl and others post here and it goes over my head -- no shame in saying so.
> > But I learned the basics of the UNIX command line and learned to appreciate
> > the efficiency it offered. I liked the GUI of the Mac, but even then -- as I
> > have shown -- I knew where its limits were.
> >
> > From there the EDU lab asked if could work for them. They had Apple IIe
> > systems at the time. They not only had AppleWorks and the like but hundreds
> > of other software packages tossed into shelving units. Most of these you
> > could learn to use quickly if you had tech knowledge (hell, most were made
> > for kids... it did not take much!). But in my "down" time I took it on
> > myself to organize the programs and used the AppleWorks database to build a
> > system people could find stuff with. It eventually grew into a system where
> > they could even check software out to use elsewhere. Still, nothing fancy.
> >
> > That lab, too, was preset when I got there -- but there was no real
> > network... heck, to print you had to turn a dial on the printers!
> >
> > Then they moved to Macs in the lab. Older Macs, even for the time. The one
> > piece ones with 9-inch screens. I set up THAT network... but we are talking
> > AppleTalk. If you think that is hard you are insane. :)
> >
> > But I did set up that system and got it to run well. The EDU folks did have
> > another lab -- a teaching lab. They asked me to run that as well. I did.
> > Then I got a job teaching with Upward Bound on weekends... in that teaching
> > lab.
> >
> > At the time the people running the labs and Upward Bound often had
> > clashes... the Upward Bound teachers complained that they labs were not kept
> > up well and the software they needed was not there... the lab folks
> > complained the labs were left messy. Gee, for some reason there were NO
> > complaints about me on either (who would I complain about... ME!). I did do
> > a good job but having both jobs certainly helped. :)
> >
> > During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
> > backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
> > remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't remember.)
> > Also cannot recall the name of the security / permission software. Whatever.
> >
> > Anyway, the EDU department knew they wanted to open some more labs... and
> > they pushed their timeline forward to make sure I could be there to set them
> > up. I did.. but, again, we are talking Mac networking (pre OS X). There were
> > a couple UNIX machines in one of the labs which I helped people with but I
> > am not the one who set them up.
> >
> > Anyway, during my time at the college I ended up writing manuals on how to
> > get the software set up on the machines -- including the permissions
> > software and more. Another lab was opened in a new building and they used my
> > manuals to do it... and once I left they continued to use them for a number
> > of years (and asked for my help to come back and assist from time to time).
> >
> > After college I worked as a substitutive teacher for a year (K-12 and
> > special ed, not that it matters) and then got a job working for the Clark
> > County Public Education Foundation. I was one of two sysops plus handled the
> > help desk. It was quite the operation... we had phone banks for dial in
> > access hooked to a First Class system. I, along with the other sysop and
> > later some high school students and eventually another teacher, managed all
> > the tech issues as well as handled training and the help desk. This was for
> > 200 schools plus 100 United Way agencies. To do the training I went with
> > something that was pretty much unheard of back in 1994 or so... I had the
> > classes be mostly online. There was one face-to-face intro class and one at
> > the end (we had another teacher who handled most of those). The rest of the
> > class was online... with users having Mac and Windows clients. We ran on a
> > Mac server (which was a BIG mistake -- but it was there before I got there).
> > Eventually we moved to a NT server (MUCH better for the task). Later they
> > did move to Linux, but that was after I left (I still did some consulting
> > for them but had moved out of town). They did eventually have one SUN
> > station donated which I sometimes used but was not on my desk and I did
> > little with it.
> >
> > Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
> > left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
> > you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
> > it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
> > foundation)... we are talking some time back!
> >
> > Again, that is a VERY brief summary... and I am sure you will troll me over
> > it. Oh no, I did not list all the software and all my duties. Oh no, I did
> > not list anything technical enough to please you. Oh no, I noted how the
> > students in programming classes often came to me for help even though I did
> > not know the language they were using.
> >
> > Yes, I know you will nit pick and troll... or if you do not Peter or Carroll
> > or others who troll COLA will. Whatever. As I said, they know my honest and
> > open nature and use it against me. So be it... you can choose to sink to
> > their level or not.
> >
> > With me: I think it is clear I have given a pretty damned complete answer to
> > you... someone who has been trolling me for months and going on an ego trip
> > over how you did something I did not (and likely could not).
> >
> > Why not move past that? Why not move forward and say, hey, you know things I
> > do not and vice versa. Hey, you have a perspective on technology and so do
> > I. Hey, we can learn from each other even as we sometimes disagree.
> >
> > That would be my preference. Please, at least consider it. Drop the nonsense
> > where you feel you need to speak for me or accuse others of being me. Drop
> > the ego battles where you feel you need to prove you can do something I
> > cannot. I completely admit you can. No shame. No argument. I have some
> > skills. You have other skills. We can both get gold stars... but, tell you
> > what, I will give mine to you so you can add them to your collection.
> > Clearly they mean more to you than they do me. :)
> >
> > Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
> > intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
> > tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
> >
> > Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
> 
> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
> ironic coming from you, Snit. 
> 
> -- 
> Marek Novotny
> https://github.com/marek-novotny

Stop begging for Snit's attention.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:02:37 PM
On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:01:23 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:12:40 -0600, Marek Novotny wrote:
> >
> >> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> On 12/23/16, 9:22 PM, in article
> >>> roadnTqDSp9sasDFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> >>><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Compare that to YOUR claim:
> >>>>>     -----
> >>>>>     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
> >>>>>     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> >>>>>     -----
> >>>> 
> >>>> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
> >>>> all those posts above. What do you object to?
> >>>
> >>> You said I *ran* UNIX labs. I ran computer labs (mostly Mac) and worked in
> >>> labs with Macs, PC, and UNIX machines.
> >> 
> >> You said the following:
> >> 
> >> // start
> >> 
> >> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> >> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> >> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> >> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> >> 
> >> // end
> >> 
> >> You mentioned UNIX first. 
> >> 
> >> In another post you change it a little by saying this:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g 
> 
> I just find it so odd that in one post, Snit says this:
> 
> // quote
> 
> I went to college and got a job where I ran an Apple IIe lab
> but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines...
> 
> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end
> 
> and in another post he says this...
> 
> // quote
> 
> Two labs. An EDU lab with Apple IIe machines and a library lab with Mac,
> DOS, and UNIX terminals.
> 
> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end quote
> 
> It's just so inconsistent. I mean, are they Unix machines or are they
> Unix terminals? Seems to use whichever type he wants even though they
> are two completely different types. Maybe he means they have both UNIX
> machines and Terminals. But he says he didn't hook them up, even though
> he ran the lab for 6 years. 
> 
> And in a today's posts:
> 
> // quote
> 
> During this time I also set up security software on the Macs as well as
> backup systems (using Mac versions of rsync and chron... I think...
> remember, this is in the 1990s! Maybe it was not rsync... don't
> remember.)
> 
> 
> D483771C.85FCE%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> 
> // end quote
> 
> In fairness he says he's not sure if it was rsync. Just never heard of
> rsync for any Mac prior to AIX, MacOSXServer or MacOS X. And since OSX
> wasn't even release into beta until September of 2000 it sounds kinda
> fishy. When I dealt with backup prior to OSX it was an application
> called, Retrospect. That was the go to app and I only ever saw that for
> system 9 and lower. Don't think I ever say rsync, and I'd imagine that
> would have stuck in my head since I love rsync and use it all the time.
> I even complain about how it doesn't support the HFS + resource fork on
> MacOSX, so I dunno...  
> 
> -- 
> Marek Novotny
> https://github.com/marek-novotny

It is odd how much you obsess over Snit and beg for his attention and acceptance.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:03:04 PM
On Friday, 23 December 2016 17:49:26 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> > On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> > >> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
> > >> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> > >>=20
> > >> > The lying imbecile Snit babbled
> > >> >=20
> > >> >> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Pe=
ter
> > >> >> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> > >> >>=20
> > >> >>> Snit wrote:
> > >> >>>=20
> > >> >>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "=
Peter
> > >> >>>> K=C3=B6hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> > >> >>>>=20
> > >> >>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
> > >> >>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
> > >> >>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny=
"
> > >> >>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what =
will
> > >> >>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telli=
ng Snit
> > >> >>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the M=
ac and
> > >> >>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outc=
ome will
> > >> >>>>>>>>> be.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will=
 happen
> > >> >>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the bo=
x.
> > >> >>>>>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box=
" but I
> > >> >>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or =
awk
> > >> >>>>>>>> commands.
> > >> >>>>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because t=
hat will
> > >> >>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. Th=
e
> > >> >>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the com=
petition.
> > >> >>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux=
 wins for
> > >> >>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
> > >> >>>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue agains=
t that...
> > >> >>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software =
is not
> > >> >>>>>> common.
> > >> >>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>> To imbeciles like you.
> > >> >>>>>=20
> > >> >>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
> > >> >>>>=20
> > >> >>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want t=
o say it
> > >> >>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim=
 of this
> > >> >>>> being easier on Linux.
> > >> >>>=20
> > >> >>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
> > >> >>=20
> > >> >> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not =
macOS.
> > >> >> OK. Whatever. It happens.
> > >> >>=20
> > >> >>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN s=
oftware
> > >> >>> than doing screencasting.
> > >> >>>=20
> > >> >>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually=
 *zero*
> > >> >>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux=
 in this
> > >> >>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config =
the
> > >> >>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
> > >> >>=20
> > >> >> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to saf=
ely allow
> > >> >> you to more easily steal content...
> > >> >=20
> > >> > So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely noth=
ing about
> > >>=20
> > >> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
> > >
> > > JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
> > > then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You'r=
e
> > > like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
> >=20
> > It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
> > have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> > So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
> > day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
> >=20
> > I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
> > IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.=20
> >=20
> > Something doesn't add up with Snit.=20
>=20
> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
>=20
> --
> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the=
 tax
> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
> get their system to work.
>=20
> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
>=20
> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
>=20
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts=
2s16c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
> --
>=20
> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the =
effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If t=
hat doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.

Sadly you cannot even imagine someone doing something well with technology.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:04:18 PM
On Friday, 23 December 2016 14:59:38 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>=20
> (snip)
>=20
> > You Carroll, clearly have more experience with posting to Usenet via
> > proxies.=20
>=20
> Bull. I know that the term refers to 'proxy server' but little else.
>=20
> "A proxy server, also known as a "proxy" or "application-level gateway", =
is a computer that acts as a gateway between a local network (e.g., all the=
 computers at one company or in one building) and a larger-scale network su=
ch as the Internet."
>=20
> My router is the only thing between our computers and the internet. I wou=
ldn't have the foggiest notion of what to do to set up a proxy server or ho=
w to use it. I don't know this kind of stuff, crackhead, it's only in your =
delusions that I do. Why would I? If Marek recalls, he can tell you that aw=
hile back I was talking about SSHing into an ISP for web development, he in=
formed me that was a VPN.
>=20
>=20
> > Why don't you try your hand at it?=20
>=20
> For the same reason I never have before... I'm not interested in it past =
what is required to do web development.
>=20
> > Also would serve your trolling
> > needs well -- more socks and claims of being hacked and forged.=20
>=20
> Projecting your desires onto me again, Snit?
>=20
> > You already
> > pointed to Tor Browser which you use... this might serve you even bette=
r.
>=20
> More BS.
>=20
>=20
> (snip more whining)

You use proxies with your "aliases" and when you claim you are being forged=
..
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:04:56 PM
On Friday, 23 December 2016 21:22:15 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > On 12/23/16, 8:37 PM, in article
> > _f6dnWiJYfoYcMDFnZ2dnUU7-IHNnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> ><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >
> > ... 
> >>>> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
> >>>> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> >>>> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
> >>>> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
> >>>> 
> >>>> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
> >>>> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Something doesn't add up with Snit.
> >>> 
> >>> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the tax
> >>> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
> >>> get their system to work.
> >>> 
> >>> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
> >>> 
> >>> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
> >>> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
> >>> 
> >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s16
> >>> c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
> >>> --
> >>> 
> >>> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the
> >>> effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If
> >>> that doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.
> >
> > I used FileMaker Pro... and my solution worked well. Comes down to you do
> > not think what I did was possible AND you feel the need to troll me AND you
> > pull this up in connection with Linux / UNIX and networking -- which is not
> > relevant at all.
> >
> > Yeah: more Carroll trolling.
> >
> >>> In case anyone missed it:
> >>> 
> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>
> >
> > That is you... no doubt.
> >  
> >> Snit's many years of UNIX experience. I guess in 6 years he never
> >> experienced NFS. ;)
> >> 
> >> :[X]::::See:messages:below::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[_]:[<>]:
> >> 
> >> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> >> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> >
> > Right. And where do I say I ran the UNIX lab? I ran the Macs and some of the
> > PCs... and there were UNIX machines in the lab. Well, one of the labs -- the
> > main library lab of the college. I did work there quite a bit but did more
> > in the education lab... where they expanded it and I ran the cluster of
> > labs.
> >
> > Mostly Macs though there were some PCs in one of the labs.
> >
> >> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> >> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
> >> 
> >> I am one of the very few people you will meet who started learning all
> >> three systems *literally* on the same day... though I did know the Apple
> >> IIe well before then.
> >
> > All 100% true. OK.
> >
> >> CF0456C3.2BE8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> >> 
> >> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
> >> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
> >> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
> >> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
> >> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
> >> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1. MS
> >> seemed like they were trying to get the best of both worlds but failing
> >> horribly... ending up with a monster in between that was always breaking
> >> and even when it worked did nothing very well. Even then I was hoping for
> >> a Mac like experience with a UNIX like back end... which we now have with
> >> OS X and, to a much lesser extent, Linux. Still, Linux probably "wins"
> >> somewhat with the CLI side and OS X "wins" hands down with the GUI side.
> >
> > All 100% true.
> >
> >> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> >> 
> >> A UNIX cannot help but act like a UNIX... unless it has damaged files
> >> or is running on bad hardware or something. :)
> >> 
> >> os x is different from other unix variants, but that does not mean it
> >> is not a unix. not only is it a unix, it is the world's most popular
> >> unix. now being popular does not mean it is better - but to deny it is
> >> a unix is like saying you like big dogs so a chihuahua is not a dog.
> >> 
> >> cf042510.2be3e%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> >> 
> >> two labs. an edu lab with apple iie machines and a library lab with mac,
> >> dos, and unix terminals. there was also another edu lab with macs but i
> >> did not work there are first, and another lab in another building with
> >> dos machines. i did later work in all of those labs and then ran the
> >> edu labs (there were the two mentioned above plus two more in portables).
> >> 
> >> This was from 1987 to 1993 when I was working there.
> >> 
> >> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
> >
> > Those are not capitalized but look similar to things I have said. Yes.
> >
> > Compare that to YOUR claim:
> >     -----
> >     He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to have run UNIX
> >     in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
> >     -----
> 
> Actually, my claim looks just fine to me. Looks pretty accurate given
> all those posts above. What do you object to?
> 
> > You noted something does not add up... yup, YOUR story.
> 
> You couldn't make NFS work on a Mac without a $20 tool you had to buy.
> Which means you basically know nothing of NFS, correct or not correct?
> Sounds correct to me. 
> 
> I claimed you said you ran UNIX in a lab full of connected computers.
> Are you telling me the lab had a bunch of computers and none of them
> were connected to anything? Some lab...
> 
> And by your own claim you ran two labs, for 6 years. What did you do in
> those six years, nothing? LOL.
> 
> > Can you see where you were flat out wrong? Hey, if you admit you goofed no
> > big deal... we all make mistakes and I ran other labs and worked in a lab
> > with UNIX machines. But I bet you never admit to your error.
> 
> Please point out my error. No, I'm not seeing it. 
> 
> > Feel free to prove me wrong.
> 
> I think your posts already do that. 
> 
> -- 
> Marek Novotny
> https://github.com/marek-novotny

Your point: you want Snit's attention. He is stupid enough to give it to you.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:05:46 PM
On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:

// snip

>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>> ironic coming from you, Snit. 
>
> Stop begging for Snit's attention.

Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 6:06:14 PM
On 12/24/16, 11:06 AM, in article
X9udneXIh8yLJMPFnZ2dnUU7-fudnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:
> 
> // snip
> 
>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>> 
>> Stop begging for Snit's attention.
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
> long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And you are back to fully just trolling.

Well, it might get interesting: you pushed your last circus for FOUR MONTHS
before you answered the question.

What game will you play next to make sure the herd accepts you?


-- 
"Blocking adolescents� access to porn, or keeping them ignorant of sex in
any way, is likely to stunt their emotional growth and make them vulnerable
to mistakes that can hurt them badly." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 6:09:48 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 12:06:14 -0600
Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny
> > wrote:  
> 
> // snip
> 
> >> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking
> >> apart your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> >> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.   
> >
> > Stop begging for Snit's attention.  
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
> long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 

Merry Christmas! We in Serbia celebrate at 7th January per Julian
calendar ;p

-- 
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
0
Melzzzzz
12/24/2016 6:12:59 PM
On Saturday, 24 December 2016 11:09:55 UTC-7, Snit  wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 11:06 AM, in article
> X9udneXIh8yLJMPFnZ2dnUU7-fudnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>=20
> > On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny  wrote:
> >=20
> > // snip
> >=20
> >>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> >>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find th=
at
> >>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
> >>=20
> >> Stop begging for Snit's attention.
> >=20
> > Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
> > long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>=20
> And you are back to fully just trolling.
>=20
> Well, it might get interesting: you pushed your last circus for FOUR MONT=
HS
> before you answered the question.
>=20
> What game will you play next to make sure the herd accepts you?
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> "Blocking adolescents=C5=A1 access to porn, or keeping them ignorant of s=
ex in
> any way, is likely to stunt their emotional growth and make them vulnerab=
le
> to mistakes that can hurt them badly." -- Richard Stallman



Carroll has uses the same circuses for over a decade. Marek is a pussy.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:13:27 PM
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:13:00 AM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 12:06:14 -0600
> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny
> > > wrote:  
> > 
> > // snip
> > 
> > >> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking
> > >> apart your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> > >> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.   
> > >
> > > Stop begging for Snit's attention.  
> > 
> > Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
> > long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The possibility that it's a false flag operation still exists but, being that Snit has the history he does and that he's embraced this 'person' for 'support', he gets what he deserves for such a desperate act.

> Merry Christmas! We in Serbia celebrate at 7th January per Julian
> calendar ;p

 Serbia, birth place of:
<http://anapopovic.com/home>

(we can't say "Merry Christmas" here anymore without be 'Snitted' by someone)
0
Steve
12/24/2016 6:43:37 PM
On Saturday, 24 December 2016 11:43:39 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:13:00 AM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 12:06:14 -0600
> > Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny
> > > > wrote:  
> > > 
> > > // snip
> > > 
> > > >> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking
> > > >> apart your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> > > >> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.   
> > > >
> > > > Stop begging for Snit's attention.  
> > > 
> > > Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
> > > long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> The possibility that it's a false flag operation still exists but, being that Snit has the history he does and that he's embraced this 'person' for 'support', he gets what he deserves for such a desperate act.

Translation: Snit did nothing wrong but it is fine to troll him anyway because Steven Petruzzellis is a piece of shit obsessed with 2004.

> > Merry Christmas! We in Serbia celebrate at 7th January per Julian
> > calendar ;p
> 
>  Serbia, birth place of:
> <http://anapopovic.com/home>
> 
> (we can't say "Merry Christmas" here anymore without be 'Snitted' by someone)

Based on all those times Snit has asked people to not say Merry Christmas which Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll will quote soon.

Or never.

Because Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll is a lying piece of shit.
0
tmelmosfire
12/24/2016 6:47:40 PM
On 12/24/16, 11:47 AM, in article
8c586662-e187-4ce6-a882-88b38929b7c8@googlegroups.com, "tmelmosfire"
<tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 11:43:39 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:13:00 AM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 12:06:14 -0600
>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2016-12-24, tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:03:09 UTC-7, Marek Novotny
>>>>> wrote:  
>>>> 
>>>> // snip
>>>> 
>>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking
>>>>>> apart your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
>>>>>> I find that ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stop begging for Snit's attention.
>>>> 
>>>> Merry Christmas everyone. Snit's already in meltdown mode. Didn't take
>>>> long. He expects us to believe this isn't his sock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>> 
>> The possibility that it's a false flag operation still exists but, being that
>> Snit has the history he does and that he's embraced this 'person' for
>> 'support', he gets what he deserves for such a desperate act.
> 
> Translation: Snit did nothing wrong but it is fine to troll him anyway because
> Steven Petruzzellis is a piece of shit obsessed with 2004.

This is the idea. Those who troll COLA cannot find ME doing significant
wrong so they hold me accountable for the actions of others, make up claims
and falsely attribute them to me, etc.

We see Carroll doing BOTH in this one post. Above he says it is fine to hold
me accountable for your words even though he admits he has no clue if they
are mine (which is stupid in itself... of course your words are YOURS, not
mine) and below he flat out makes up claims about my view of the use of
"Merry Christmas."

He cannot be honest with his obsession of finding me doing wrong so he makes
things up. He lies.

Carroll lies more in one day than I do in a year.

>>> Merry Christmas! We in Serbia celebrate at 7th January per Julian
>>> calendar ;p
>> 
>>  Serbia, birth place of:
>> <http://anapopovic.com/home>
>> 
>> (we can't say "Merry Christmas" here anymore without be 'Snitted' by someone)
> 
> Based on all those times Snit has asked people to not say Merry Christmas
> which Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll will quote soon.
> 
> Or never.
> 
> Because Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll is a lying piece of shit.



-- 
"Maybe it wouldn't be quite as good, but we would all be okay."
- Richard Stallman, speaking about if his ideas were followed

0
Snit
12/24/2016 7:09:18 PM
On 12/23/16 20:37, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Steve Carroll<fretwizzer@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll<fretwizzer@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>> Köhlmann"<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The lying imbecile Snit babbled
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>>>> Köhlmann"<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>>>>>> Köhlmann"<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>>>>>>>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>>>>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that will
>>>>>>>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the competition.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins for
>>>>>>>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against that...
>>>>>>>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>>>>>>>>>>> common.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To imbeciles like you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say it
>>>>>>>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of this
>>>>>>>>> being easier on Linux.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS.
>>>>>>> OK. Whatever. It happens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN software
>>>>>>>> than doing screencasting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually *zero*
>>>>>>>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in this
>>>>>>>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
>>>>>>>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely allow
>>>>>>> you to more easily steal content...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing about
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
>>>>
>>>> JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
>>>> then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're
>>>> like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
>>>
>>> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
>>> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
>>> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
>>>
>>> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
>>> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.
>>>
>>> Something doesn't add up with Snit.
>>
>> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
>>
>> --
>> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the tax
>> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
>> get their system to work.
>>
>> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
>>
>> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
>> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
>>
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s16c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
>> --
>>
>> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the
>> effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If
>> that doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.
>>
>> In case anyone missed it:
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>
>
> Snit's many years of UNIX experience. I guess in 6 years he never
> experienced NFS. ;)
>
> :[X]::::See:messages:below::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[_]:[<>]:
>
> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>
> I am one of the very few people you will meet who started learning all
> three systems *literally* on the same day... though I did know the Apple
> IIe well before then.
>
> CF0456C3.2BE8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>
> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1. MS
> seemed like they were trying to get the best of both worlds but failing
> horribly... ending up with a monster in between that was always breaking
> and even when it worked did nothing very well. Even then I was hoping for
> a Mac like experience with a UNIX like back end... which we now have with
> OS X and, to a much lesser extent, Linux. Still, Linux probably "wins"
> somewhat with the CLI side and OS X "wins" hands down with the GUI side.
>
> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>
> A UNIX cannot help but act like a UNIX... unless it has damaged files
> or is running on bad hardware or something. :)
>
> os x is different from other unix variants, but that does not mean it
> is not a unix. not only is it a unix, it is the world's most popular
> unix. now being popular does not mean it is better - but to deny it is
> a unix is like saying you like big dogs so a chihuahua is not a dog.
>
> cf042510.2be3e%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>
> two labs. an edu lab with apple iie machines and a library lab with mac,
> dos, and unix terminals. there was also another edu lab with macs but i
> did not work there are first, and another lab in another building with
> dos machines. i did later work in all of those labs and then ran the
> edu labs (there were the two mentioned above plus two more in portables).
>
> This was from 1987 to 1993 when I was working there.
>
> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>

ROFLMAO!!!!

0
GreyCloud
12/24/2016 7:14:03 PM
On 12/24/16 11:01, tmelmosfire wrote:
> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:57:46 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>>> On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
>>> JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>  wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
>>>
>>> Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
>>> honorable.
>>
>> So you want to offer him a contract, then, like you did with CSMA posters? Yeah... that was pretty fun, wasn't it? ;)
>>
>> Hmmm... maybe he should consult with ed on the matter first. Your thoughts? LOL!
>
> Why don't you agree to stop trolling and lying?

LOL!!!  Ol' Thermos Bottle to the rescue.

0
GreyCloud
12/24/2016 7:14:47 PM
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-7, GreyCloud wrote:
> On 12/24/16 11:01, tmelmosfire wrote:
> > On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:57:46 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
> >> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> >>> On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
> >>> JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> >>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>  wrote:
> >>
> >> (snip)
> >>
> >>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> >>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
> >>>
> >>> Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest and
> >>> honorable.
> >>
> >> So you want to offer him a contract, then, like you did with CSMA posters? Yeah... that was pretty fun, wasn't it? ;)
> >>
> >> Hmmm... maybe he should consult with ed on the matter first. Your thoughts? LOL!
> >
> > Why don't you agree to stop trolling and lying?
> 
> LOL!!!  Ol' Thermos Bottle to the rescue.

Whenever Snit is being ignored puppets/shills pop in to provide 'company' for him. But we're not supposed to notice <eyeroll>.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-zLc80zO0>
0
Steve
12/24/2016 7:22:54 PM
On 12/24/16, 12:14 PM, in article o3mhcn$58l$5@dont-email.me, "GreyCloud"
<mist@cumulus.com> wrote:

> On 12/24/16 11:01, tmelmosfire wrote:
>> On Saturday, 24 December 2016 09:57:46 UTC-7, Steve Carroll  wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 12/24/16, 9:03 AM, in article
>>>> JdCdneXluPqqAcPFnZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> (snip)
>>> 
>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts?
>>>> 
>>>> Nope. My main point is I would prefer for you to join me in being honest
>>>> and
>>>> honorable.
>>> 
>>> So you want to offer him a contract, then, like you did with CSMA posters?
>>> Yeah... that was pretty fun, wasn't it? ;)
>>> 
>>> Hmmm... maybe he should consult with ed on the matter first. Your thoughts?
>>> LOL!
>> 
>> Why don't you agree to stop trolling and lying?
> 
> LOL!!!  Ol' Thermos Bottle to the rescue.
> 
You say that as you come in to rescue Carroll.

Of note, I do not need to be rescued... I simply remain honest and
honorable. 


-- 
"I started Linux as a desktop operating system. And it's the only area
where Linux hasn't completely taken over. That just annoys the hell out
of me." -- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/24/2016 7:24:22 PM
On 12/24/16, 12:14 PM, in article o3mhba$58l$4@dont-email.me, "GreyCloud"
<mist@cumulus.com> wrote:

> On 12/23/16 20:37, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2016-12-24, Steve Carroll<fretwizzer@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>> On 2016-12-23, Steve Carroll<fretwizzer@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 3:17:09 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 2:42 PM, in article o3k5lq$c3c$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>>> K�hlmann"<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The lying imbecile Snit babbled
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 12:54 PM, in article o3jvba$ll6$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>>>>> K�hlmann"<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 12:24 PM, in article o3jtiq$ena$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>>>>>>> K�hlmann"<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The lying imbecile Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/16, 11:24 AM, in article
>>>>>>>>>>>> s6-dndgj7MRl9sDFnZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> One minor correction. I have Macs and I know exactly what will
>>>>>>>>>>>> happen if the script is run on a Mac. I'm simply not telling Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>> the answer. Instead he should try to execute them on the Mac and
>>>>>>>>>>>> see what happens for himself. I already know what the outcome will
>>>>>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> As you own Macs as well, I am sure you can guess what will happen
>>>>>>>>>>>> if you attempt to execute openvpn on the Mac out of the box.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wasn't aware the challenge was limited to "out of the box" but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> assume it'd be like if you tried to execute certain sed or awk
>>>>>>>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> No such requirement. I only mention out of the box because that
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>> introduce added complexity thus making it more difficult. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge is to show the Mac making this EASIER than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> competition.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The less out of the box his solution becomes, the more Linux wins
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> making it EASIER than the competition, wouldn't you agree?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If it was with common software I think one could argue against
>>>>>>>>>>>> that...
>>>>>>>>>>>> but in this case that is NOT what is happening. The software is not
>>>>>>>>>>>> common.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> To imbeciles like you.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> To a lot of people it is extremely common
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm, I do not think it is common on macOS... but if you want to say
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is common then you have shot down the key part of Marek's claim of
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> being easier on Linux.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No. It is *that* common on linux, that it is right in the repos.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So you got confused on context and thought I meant Linux and not macOS.
>>>>>>>> OK. Whatever. It happens.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would guess that *at least* 10.000 times more people use VPN
>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>> than doing screencasting.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You can't beat ease of setup with a Mac, and can't for virtually
>>>>>>>>> *zero*
>>>>>>>>> software type. Your "easier to do task" is already gone to linux in
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> case, as all the other points are either about the same (config the
>>>>>>>>> VPN(s), the script etc etc) or more difficult to do on a Mac
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It seems like it is a bit easier to set up a Linux machine to safely
>>>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>> you to more easily steal content...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So VPN is just another of the many things you know absolutely nothing
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have not shown I know any more than you, correct.
>>>>> 
>>>>> JHC! So WTF is this Masters degree in IT you have actually worth,
>>>>> then?! It sounds like taxpayers were massively ripped off here. You're
>>>>> like an entire crate of $600 hammers, aren't you?
>>>> 
>>>> It's not just VPN. He has no knowledge of NFS either and yet claims to
>>>> have run UNIX in a lab full of connected computers way back in the day.
>>>> So I ask you, how did we connect UNIX for file sharing way back in the
>>>> day? Was it not the STANDARD to use NFS?
>>>> 
>>>> I can tell you that back in the day things were much different. I used
>>>> IPX, Token Ring and a MAUs. And on UNIX, we used NFS.
>>>> 
>>>> Something doesn't add up with Snit.
>>> 
>>> The hell you say! Snit's is a computer genius! Look at this:
>>> 
>>> --
>>> "When I worked at Intuit they needed a system to compute benefits for the
>>> tax
>>> season. Took the "expert programmers," a group of 4 I think, TWO YEARS to
>>> get their system to work.
>>> 
>>> Took me TWO WEEKS, alone, to have a working system.
>>> 
>>> Yes, when they completed theirs it was faster and better in many ways. No
>>> doubt. But it took them TWO tax seasons to get it to work. Insane."
>>> 
>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/gaR_ts2s1
>>> 6c/vzyp4GN5CgAJ>
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Of course, by his own admission, he's not a programmer... but it was the
>>> effort of the "other" guys (the Intuit programmers) that was "insane". If
>>> that doesn't tell you all you need to know about Snit nothing can.
>>> 
>>> In case anyone missed it:
>>> 
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder>
>> 
>> Snit's many years of UNIX experience. I guess in 6 years he never
>> experienced NFS. ;)
>> 
>> :[X]::::See:messages:below::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[_]:[<>]:
>> 
>> Took some programming classes, used Usenet and email, worked in a computer
>> lab where I helped people on UNIX, PCs (DOS and later Windows), and Macs.
>> This gave me a very broad view of the types of things each was good and
>> bad with and what things people had trouble with.
>> 
>> I am one of the very few people you will meet who started learning all
>> three systems *literally* on the same day... though I did know the Apple
>> IIe well before then.
>> 
>> CF0456C3.2BE8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> I used to have an Apple IIe at my house. I used that plus the Apple
>> IIes at my high school. I went to college and got a job where I ran an
>> Apple IIe lab but they also had Macs and DOS and UNIX machines... I had
>> never used any of them. I am one of the few people who can say I started
>> learning all three at the same time. I was a big fan of the Macs and of
>> UNIX but did not like DOS nor Windows when the college moved to 3.1. MS
>> seemed like they were trying to get the best of both worlds but failing
>> horribly... ending up with a monster in between that was always breaking
>> and even when it worked did nothing very well. Even then I was hoping for
>> a Mac like experience with a UNIX like back end... which we now have with
>> OS X and, to a much lesser extent, Linux. Still, Linux probably "wins"
>> somewhat with the CLI side and OS X "wins" hands down with the GUI side.
>> 
>> D00A8AA0.3CEDF%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> A UNIX cannot help but act like a UNIX... unless it has damaged files
>> or is running on bad hardware or something. :)
>> 
>> os x is different from other unix variants, but that does not mean it
>> is not a unix. not only is it a unix, it is the world's most popular
>> unix. now being popular does not mean it is better - but to deny it is
>> a unix is like saying you like big dogs so a chihuahua is not a dog.
>> 
>> cf042510.2be3e%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
>> two labs. an edu lab with apple iie machines and a library lab with mac,
>> dos, and unix terminals. there was also another edu lab with macs but i
>> did not work there are first, and another lab in another building with
>> dos machines. i did later work in all of those labs and then ran the
>> edu labs (there were the two mentioned above plus two more in portables).
>> 
>> This was from 1987 to 1993 when I was working there.
>> 
>> D00BD667.3CF94%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com
>> 
> 
> ROFLMAO!!!!

Would love to hear the tech background of others.


-- 
"I have never, ever cared about really anything but the Linux desktop."
-- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/24/2016 7:25:21 PM
Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
....

>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...

pan?

....

>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>> telnet

pan?

>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!

pan?

....
>>
>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>
>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
> 
> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
> ironic coming from you, Snit. 
> 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
<quote>
Initial release	July 30, 1999
</quote>

0
deplorable
12/24/2016 7:50:05 PM
On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> ...
>
>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>
> pan?
>
> ...
>
>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>> telnet
>
> pan?
>
>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>
> pan?
>
> ...
>>>
>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>
>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>> 
>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>> ironic coming from you, Snit. 
>> 
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
><quote>
> Initial release	July 30, 1999
></quote>

Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm? 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 7:56:19 PM
On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> 
>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>> 
>> pan?
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and
>>>> vi
>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>> telnet
>> 
>> pan?
>> 
>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>> gives
>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>> 
>> pan?
>> 
>> ...
>>>> 
>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>> 
>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>> 
>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>> 
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>> <quote>
>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>> </quote>
> 
> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?

The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
if they were there at the time. Whatever.

-- 
"Linux desktop is why I got into Linux in the first place. I mean, I
have never, ever cared about really anything but the Linux desktop."
-- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/24/2016 9:20:10 PM
On 12/24/16, 12:50 PM, in article ahjb003.ague@rooftop.invalid, "deplorable
owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> ...
> 
> 
>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
> 
> pan?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and vi
>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>> telnet
> 
> pan?
> 
>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it gives
>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
> 
> pan?
> 
> ...
> 
>>> 
>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>> 
>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>> 
>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
> <quote>
> Initial release July 30, 1999
> </quote>
> 

Yup... not pan. My mistake.


-- 
"I started Linux as a desktop operating system. And it's the only area
where Linux hasn't completely taken over. That just annoys the hell out
of me." -- Linus Torvalds

0
Snit
12/24/2016 10:24:11 PM
On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
> q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> ...
>>> 
>>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>>> 
>>> pan?
>>> 
>>> ...
>>> 
>>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and
>>>>> vi
>>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>>> telnet
>>> 
>>> pan?
>>> 
>>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>>> gives
>>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>> 
>>> pan?
>>> 
>>> ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>>> 
>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>> <quote>
>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>> </quote>
>> 
>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>
> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
> if they were there at the time. Whatever.

I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 10:59:29 PM
Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
>> q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> 
>>>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>>>> 
>>>> pan?
>>>> 
>>>> ...
>>>> 
>>>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and
>>>>>> vi
>>>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>>>> telnet
>>>> 
>>>> pan?
>>>> 
>>>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>>>> gives
>>>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>>> 
>>>> pan?
>>>> 
>>>> ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>>> </quote>
>>> 
>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>>
>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
> 
> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine. 
> 

I like how "pan and tin" becomes "tin".  Maybe he meant "paint", as in
MS Paint.


0
deplorable
12/24/2016 11:07:59 PM
On 12/24/16, 4:07 PM, in article hjga0b.3ug@rooftop.invalid, "deplorable
owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

>>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>>>> </quote>
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>>> 
>>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
>>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>> 
>> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine.
>> 
> 
> I like how "pan and tin" becomes "tin".  Maybe he meant "paint", as in
> MS Paint.

And as predicted my every word is going to be nit picked. Yup... I was wrong
about at least one program I used in a lab over 20 years ago. EVIL!

LOL!

It really is just sad how predictable the trolling in COLA has become.


-- 
🙈🙉🙊


0
Snit
12/24/2016 11:12:35 PM
On 12/24/16, 3:59 PM, in article
zYOdnQeqT4pMYMPFnZ2dnUU7-c2dnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>>> </quote>
>>> 
>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>> 
>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
> 
> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine.

I do not think we had pine... but could be. I did use it later elsewhere.
Also used pan through the years.


-- 
"All of these acts [prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality,
possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia] should be
legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of
prejudice and narrowmindedness." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 11:13:32 PM
On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
>>> q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>>>>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>>>>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>>>>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>>>>> 
>>>>> pan?
>>>>> 
>>>>> ...
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and
>>>>>>> vi
>>>>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>>>>> telnet
>>>>> 
>>>>> pan?
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>>>>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>>>>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>>>> 
>>>>> pan?
>>>>> 
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>>>>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>>>> </quote>
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>>>
>>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
>>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>> 
>> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine. 
>> 
>
> I like how "pan and tin" becomes "tin".  Maybe he meant "paint", as in
> MS Paint.

That's funny. It actually works. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/24/2016 11:15:43 PM
On 12/24/16, 4:15 PM, in article
bNednbqPqMgCnMLFnZ2dnUU7-a3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

>>>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>>>> 
>>>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not
>>>> sure
>>>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>>> 
>>> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine.
>>> 
>> 
>> I like how "pan and tin" becomes "tin".  Maybe he meant "paint", as in
>> MS Paint.
> 
> That's funny. It actually works.

Hmmmm, yes, during my time there we had MS Paint as well. I did not mention
it... but apparently for Linux folks it is noteworthy. Makes sense... on
Linux it would be considered a high end program. :)


-- 
"This doesn't mean our work is over; most GNU/Linux distros today contain
nonfree software, and there are more things that we expect a system to do."
-- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/24/2016 11:23:58 PM
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 3:59:35 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
> > q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
> ><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
> >>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>>=20
> >>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even=
 knowing
> >>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was worki=
ng with
> >>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it include=
d MS
> >>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and=
 an
> >>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other=
 DOS
> >>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used=
 pan,
> >>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
> >>>=20
> >>> pan?
> >>>=20
> >>> ...
> >>>=20
> >>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang o=
f) and
> >>>>> vi
> >>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin =
and
> >>>>> telnet
> >>>=20
> >>> pan?
> >>>=20
> >>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong =
and LOT
> >>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but=
 it
> >>>>> gives
> >>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six y=
ears and
> >>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
> >>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
> >>>=20
> >>> pan?
> >>>=20
> >>> ...
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you see=
m an
> >>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn =
about
> >>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
> >>>>=20
> >>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apar=
t
> >>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find t=
hat
> >>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
> >>>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
> >>> <quote>
> >>> Initial release July 30, 1999
> >>> </quote>
> >>=20
> >> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
> >> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
> >
> > The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not=
 sure
> > if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>=20
> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine.=20

LOL! It's Snit... whad'ya expect. I wouldn't assume this is just an honest =
mistake. I've pointed to a number of these little 'stories' of his where th=
e details kept changing. He either has a terrible memory (yet, somehow, he =
can recall his trolling BS when he needs just fine) or he's as chock full o=
f sh*t as he is on everything else he posts .  Gee... I wonder which one it=
 is <eyeroll>. There's really only one question here: WTF did we get for ou=
r taxpayer dollars?  Seriously, how the hell does someone so clueless get a=
 Masters degree in a field he knows so little about? I assume that certain =
segments in the IT field don't require a degree (similar to not needing  on=
e for web development) but how in hell do you get an advanced degree like t=
his? Is Kaplan that bad?

<http://www.kaplanuniversity.edu/information-technology/information-technol=
ogy-master-degree.aspx>
0
Steve
12/24/2016 11:37:51 PM
Steve Carroll wrote:

> LOL! It's Snit... whad'ya expect. I wouldn't assume this is just an
> honest mistake. I've pointed to a number of these little 'stories' of
> his where the details kept changing. He either has a terrible memory
> (yet, somehow, he can recall his trolling BS when he needs just fine) or
> he's as chock full of sh*t as he is on everything else he posts . 
> Gee... I wonder which one it is <eyeroll>. There's really only one
> question here: WTF did we get for our taxpayer dollars?  Seriously, how
> the hell does someone so clueless get a Masters degree in a field he
> knows so little about? I assume that certain segments in the IT field
> don't require a degree (similar to not needing  one for web development)
> but how in hell do you get an advanced degree like this? Is Kaplan that
> bad?

Is there any proof Glasser actually has a Masters' from Kaplan, other than 
his claim he does? There is just no fucking way. He's too goddamned stupid.
0
Dr
12/25/2016 12:16:25 AM
On 2016-12-24, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 3:59:35 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> > On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
>> > q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>> ><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>> >>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> >>> ...
>> >>> 
>> >>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even knowing
>> >>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working with
>> >>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>> >>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>> >>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>> >>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used pan,
>> >>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>> >>> 
>> >>> pan?
>> >>> 
>> >>> ...
>> >>> 
>> >>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of) and
>> >>>>> vi
>> >>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>> >>>>> telnet
>> >>> 
>> >>> pan?
>> >>> 
>> >>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and LOT
>> >>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>> >>>>> gives
>> >>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years and
>> >>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>> >>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>> >>> 
>> >>> pan?
>> >>> 
>> >>> ...
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>> >>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn about
>> >>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>> >>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>> >>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>> >>>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>> >>> <quote>
>> >>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>> >>> </quote>
>> >> 
>> >> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>> >> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>> >
>> > The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not sure
>> > if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>> 
>> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine. 
>
> LOL! It's Snit... whad'ya expect. I wouldn't assume this is just an
> honest mistake. I've pointed to a number of these little 'stories' of
> his where the details kept changing. He either has a terrible memory
> (yet, somehow, he can recall his trolling BS when he needs just fine)
> or he's as chock full of sh*t as he is on everything else he posts .
> Gee... I wonder which one it is <eyeroll>. There's really only one
> question here: WTF did we get for our taxpayer dollars?  Seriously,
> how the hell does someone so clueless get a Masters degree in a
> field he knows so little about? I assume that certain segments in
> the IT field don't require a degree (similar to not needing  one for
> web development) but how in hell do you get an advanced degree like
> this? Is Kaplan that bad?
>
><http://www.kaplanuniversity.edu/information-technology/information-technology-master-degree.aspx>

Well, if you don't use the skill you tend to lose it. Especially if a
couple decades pass. Story seems consistent enough. I give it a pass.
I'm just proving a point actually. He nitpicked like crazy so I'm just
returning the favor. 

I don't know about this whole tax payer thing. Anyone who goes to a
public college can be said to have done so on tax payer money. Honestly,
if it were up to me education would always be free. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/25/2016 12:23:23 AM
On 12/24/16, 5:23 PM, in article
J-mdnSxqpIbmjMLFnZ2dnUU7-V3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 3:59:35 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
>>>> q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even
>>>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>>>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>>>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>>>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used
>>>>>>>> pan,
>>>>>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pan?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of)
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> vi
>>>>>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>>>>>> telnet
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pan?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and
>>>>>>>> LOT
>>>>>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>>>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pan?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>>>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>>>> 
>>>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not
>>>> sure
>>>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>>> 
>>> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine.
>> 
>> LOL! It's Snit... whad'ya expect. I wouldn't assume this is just an
>> honest mistake. I've pointed to a number of these little 'stories' of
>> his where the details kept changing. He either has a terrible memory
>> (yet, somehow, he can recall his trolling BS when he needs just fine)
>> or he's as chock full of sh*t as he is on everything else he posts .
>> Gee... I wonder which one it is <eyeroll>. There's really only one
>> question here: WTF did we get for our taxpayer dollars?  Seriously,
>> how the hell does someone so clueless get a Masters degree in a
>> field he knows so little about? I assume that certain segments in
>> the IT field don't require a degree (similar to not needing  one for
>> web development) but how in hell do you get an advanced degree like
>> this? Is Kaplan that bad?
>> 
>> <http://www.kaplanuniversity.edu/information-technology/information-technolog
>> y-master-degree.aspx>
> 
> Well, if you don't use the skill you tend to lose it. Especially if a
> couple decades pass. Story seems consistent enough. I give it a pass.

Carroll is, of course, just trolling.

> I'm just proving a point actually. He nitpicked like crazy so I'm just
> returning the favor.

By all means do note what nits I picked.
 
> I don't know about this whole tax payer thing. Anyone who goes to a
> public college can be said to have done so on tax payer money. Honestly,
> if it were up to me education would always be free.

Carroll has no clue how I paid for my schooling... he is, again, just
trolling. 

He has been doing this non-stop since 2004... without my responding to him
directly since 2009 or so. Even then it was just once I think... then 2007
before that. Maybe I have the years off and he can freak out about that,
too.


-- 
"Blocking adolescents� access to porn, or keeping them ignorant of sex in
any way, is likely to stunt their emotional growth and make them vulnerable
to mistakes that can hurt them badly." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/25/2016 12:50:01 AM
On 2016-12-25, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 12/24/16, 5:23 PM, in article
> J-mdnSxqpIbmjMLFnZ2dnUU7-V3NnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
><marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 3:59:35 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 12/24/16, 12:56 PM, in article
>>>>> q5CdnceXfKt-T8PFnZ2dnUU7-YOdnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
>>>>> <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2016-12-24, deplorable owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2016-12-24, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Working in the lab was truly trial under fire... I started not even
>>>>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>>>>> where the on switches were. But I learned quickly. Soon I was working
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the software they had... I cannot give the full list but it included MS
>>>>>>>>> Word, MS Paint, and other Mac software... and Word Perfect 5.1 (and an
>>>>>>>>> earlier version the first year or two) as well as a number of other DOS
>>>>>>>>> progras... and later Windows ones. On the UNIX machines people used
>>>>>>>>> pan,
>>>>>>>>> tin, emacs, vi, some statistical software...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pan?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> But what I did do was work with emacs (which I never got the hang of)
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> vi
>>>>>>>>> (which I was reasonably adapt at). I got introduced to pan and tin and
>>>>>>>>> telnet
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pan?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Whew. This is getting long and I am sure I have some details wrong and
>>>>>>>>> LOT
>>>>>>>>> left out (and I went past the time of my college computer labs, but it
>>>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>>>> you some idea of my background). Remember, I worked there for six years
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> it was from 1987 to 1993 (and then into 1996 with working for the
>>>>>>>>> foundation)... we are talking some time back!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pan?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Really, when you are not getting caught up in such nonsense you seem an
>>>>>>>>> intelligent and helpful person. You seem to have a desire to learn
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> tech and a knack for it. On that level I respect you.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully that gives you something to think about.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So you're basically saying you don't appreciate someone picking apart
>>>>>>>> your every word and making a circus show out of your posts? I find that
>>>>>>>> ironic coming from you, Snit.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader)
>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>> Initial release July 30, 1999
>>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah, right about that. There wasn't any PAN around that time that I'm
>>>>>> aware of. Should I offer what I think he meant or let him squirm?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The newsreader was tin. Not Pan. Later on I used that and pine, but not
>>>>> sure
>>>>> if they were there at the time. Whatever.
>>>> 
>>>> I had a feeling you'd change Pan to Pine.
>>> 
>>> LOL! It's Snit... whad'ya expect. I wouldn't assume this is just an
>>> honest mistake. I've pointed to a number of these little 'stories' of
>>> his where the details kept changing. He either has a terrible memory
>>> (yet, somehow, he can recall his trolling BS when he needs just fine)
>>> or he's as chock full of sh*t as he is on everything else he posts .
>>> Gee... I wonder which one it is <eyeroll>. There's really only one
>>> question here: WTF did we get for our taxpayer dollars?  Seriously,
>>> how the hell does someone so clueless get a Masters degree in a
>>> field he knows so little about? I assume that certain segments in
>>> the IT field don't require a degree (similar to not needing  one for
>>> web development) but how in hell do you get an advanced degree like
>>> this? Is Kaplan that bad?
>>> 
>>> <http://www.kaplanuniversity.edu/information-technology/information-technolog
>>> y-master-degree.aspx>
>> 
>> Well, if you don't use the skill you tend to lose it. Especially if a
>> couple decades pass. Story seems consistent enough. I give it a pass.
>
> Carroll is, of course, just trolling.
>
>> I'm just proving a point actually. He nitpicked like crazy so I'm just
>> returning the favor.
>
> By all means do note what nits I picked.
>  
>> I don't know about this whole tax payer thing. Anyone who goes to a
>> public college can be said to have done so on tax payer money. Honestly,
>> if it were up to me education would always be free.
>
> Carroll has no clue how I paid for my schooling... he is, again, just
> trolling. 
>
> He has been doing this non-stop since 2004... without my responding to him
> directly since 2009 or so. Even then it was just once I think... then 2007
> before that. Maybe I have the years off and he can freak out about that,
> too.

You respond directly through your sock, snit. You're fooling yourself if
you think anyone believes otherwise. You'd have to be retarded not to
see through that kinda stupidity. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

0
Marek
12/25/2016 12:54:27 AM
On 12/24/16, 5:54 PM, in article
04qdncCQartehcLFnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"
<marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

>>> Well, if you don't use the skill you tend to lose it. Especially if a
>>> couple decades pass. Story seems consistent enough. I give it a pass.
>> 
>> Carroll is, of course, just trolling.
>> 
>>> I'm just proving a point actually. He nitpicked like crazy so I'm just
>>> returning the favor.
>> 
>> By all means do note what nits I picked.
>>  
>>> I don't know about this whole tax payer thing. Anyone who goes to a
>>> public college can be said to have done so on tax payer money. Honestly,
>>> if it were up to me education would always be free.
>> 
>> Carroll has no clue how I paid for my schooling... he is, again, just
>> trolling. 
>> 
>> He has been doing this non-stop since 2004... without my responding to him
>> directly since 2009 or so. Even then it was just once I think... then 2007
>> before that. Maybe I have the years off and he can freak out about that,
>> too.
> 
> You respond directly through your sock, snit. You're fooling yourself if
> you think anyone believes otherwise. You'd have to be retarded not to
> see through that kinda stupidity.

Ah, more of your frenzied trolling... all because your four month circus
blew up in your face AND I posted a video on Linux:
<https://youtu.be/8-m1rYIjdNA>.

Notice how NONE of the "advocates" are willing to admit to ANY of the issues
I show with the video.

You guys are weird. You tie your ego to an OS.

Me: hey, if you point out issues with macOS and its environment I am
thankful. I *like* to learn.


-- 
"Blocking adolescents� access to porn, or keeping them ignorant of sex in
any way, is likely to stunt their emotional growth and make them vulnerable
to mistakes that can hurt them badly." -- Richard Stallman

0
Snit
12/25/2016 1:57:10 AM
Reply: