Micros~1 hiring Linux developers - comp.os.linux.advocacy

What exactly are Microsoft's plans for Linux on Windows? Joe Barr Aug 13 2004 A Linux developer .. has told NewsForge he was recently contacted by Microsoft and invited to a job interview. He accepted, and during the interview he asked the obvious question: Why was Microsoft interested in hiring someone with strong Linux skills? The reply was that Microsoft is working on an emulator that will allow Windows users to run Unix. Considering that Microsoft already has an emulator that will do just that, it's not crystal clear exactly what the monopoly has in mind for Linux on its desktop and/or server products. Microsoft purchased its Virtual PC product from Connectix early last year. [...] ... Why is Microsoft interviewing Linux developers? Are they needed to work on the Virtual PC product, or on Longhorn? I called Microsoft public relations .. and put the developer's question to them. The first response I received said "After speaking with my colleagues, I can confirm that Microsoft has no plans to port to Linux at this time." Since that was an answer to a question I hadn't asked, I asked again. The second response was unequivocal: "Unfortunately, we do not have further comment on your question." http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/12/2048237

Daeron wrote: > What exactly are Microsoft's plans for Linux on Windows? > Joe Barr Aug 13 2004 > > A Linux developer .. has told NewsForge he was recently contacted by > Microsoft and invited to a job interview. He accepted, and during the > interview he asked the obvious question: Why was Microsoft interested in > hiring someone with strong Linux skills? The reply was that Microsoft is > working on an emulator that will allow Windows users to run Unix. Interesting but it ain't gonna work for M$. As soon as GNU/Linux applications start running in emulating on M$ without a hickup, people are gonna want start using GNU/Linux because it will run faster without the emulation and is free. To stay alive, M$ is gonna have to pray they can make a windope emulator that runs OK in in GNU/Linux. Thats the only way Bill$. Release the source code and compete with wine! > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/12/2048237

Daeron <daeron@demon.com> wrote in message news: > Nobody is hiring Linux developers, why? Because nobody uses Linux. Get your MCSE + learn to develop for Windows, then you'll get a job! Peter Bilt

7 <website_has_email@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3uGTc.161781$a8.28459@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>... > Daeron wrote: > > > What exactly are Microsoft's plans for Linux on Windows? > > Joe Barr Aug 13 2004 > > > > A Linux developer .. has told NewsForge he was recently contacted by > > Microsoft and invited to a job interview. He accepted, and during the > > interview he asked the obvious question: Why was Microsoft interested in > > hiring someone with strong Linux skills? The reply was that Microsoft is > > working on an emulator that will allow Windows users to run Unix. > > Interesting but it ain't gonna work for M$. > As soon as GNU/Linux applications start running in emulating > on M$ without a hickup, people are gonna want > start using GNU/Linux because it will run faster without > the emulation and is free. To stay alive, M$ is gonna have > to pray they can make a windope emulator that runs OK in > in GNU/Linux. Thats the only way Bill$. Release the source > code and compete with wine! > > > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/12/2048237 Having grown up on the M$ roadmap, and being an MSCE from 3.51 => w2k, here are some thoughts: 1) Microsoft will develop tools which allow users to migrate Linux systems to the next version of windows. While few users will do this, it will give them the marketing perception that Linux is not the answer. They had a similiar tools they used to kill Novell Netware. 2) Hiring key Linux developers would allow M$ to lock them in to intellectual property agreements. This would effectively allow Microsoft to sue the community as SCO has. Even if M$ intellectual capitol was not stolen, again they would have the marketing perceptions. Even installing the products and agreeing to the EULA (End User License Agreement) can limit one's freedom publish benchmark of Windows. 3) M$ will contribute to the open source community to "pollute" the well. Remember how simple HTML was before M$ started setting up their own "standards". Marketing will talk about how M$ is nice enought to bring "standards" to the open community, etc. 4) Having saturated most of the Intel market, M$ is after Sun & IBM's Unix share of the server market. They are going after the large enterprise space where the real revenue lies, in databases, middleware, etc. They aren't going to do it with their current kernel. It would not surprise me if they released their own revenue generating binaries that sit on top of Linux. Eg, plug in's to active directory, etc. This appears to be the track Novell is taking with Suse. They might almost release their own "standards based" distribution and try to dilute the Redhat market. 5) M$'s next big revenue generating project is M$ Virtual Server, using a play on the name of IBM "MVS" mainframe operating system. They are getting beat up pretty bad for not supporting Linux. They are several generations behind VMware, and may want to appear more "open", just like IE2.0 was. 6) M$ will gladly steal/borrow from the open source community for products such like Services for Unix.

mitchd wrote: > 7 <website_has_email@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message > news:<3uGTc.161781$a8.28459@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>... >> Daeron wrote: >> >> > What exactly are Microsoft's plans for Linux on Windows? >> > Joe Barr Aug 13 2004 >> > >> > A Linux developer .. has told NewsForge he was recently contacted by >> > Microsoft and invited to a job interview. He accepted, and during the >> > interview he asked the obvious question: Why was Microsoft interested >> > in hiring someone with strong Linux skills? The reply was that >> > Microsoft is working on an emulator that will allow Windows users to >> > run Unix. >> >> Interesting but it ain't gonna work for M$. >> As soon as GNU/Linux applications start running in emulating >> on M$ without a hickup, people are gonna want >> start using GNU/Linux because it will run faster without >> the emulation and is free. To stay alive, M$ is gonna have >> to pray they can make a windope emulator that runs OK in >> in GNU/Linux. Thats the only way Bill$. Release the source >> code and compete with wine! >> >> > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/12/2048237 > > Having grown up on the M$ roadmap, and being an MSCE from 3.51 => w2k, > here are some thoughts: > > 1) Microsoft will develop tools which allow users to migrate Linux > systems to the next version of windows. While few users will do > this, it will give them the marketing perception that Linux is not the > answer. They had a similiar tools they used to kill Novell Netware. Which mug is going to convert? They have to pay for the tools and pay for the OS. Instead without conversion, they can run free on GNU/Linux. > 2) Hiring key Linux developers would allow M$ to lock them in to > intellectual property agreements. This would effectively allow > Microsoft to sue the community as SCO has. Even if M$ intellectual > capitol was not stolen, again they would have the marketing > perceptions. Even installing the products and agreeing to the EULA > (End User License Agreement) can limit one's freedom publish benchmark > of Windows. Yes and no - its not that simple for a company to say oh look you thieved our code. Even hiring GPL programmers, is not the answer because what's been GPL'd cannot be undone. So if you add features, unless the GPL'd code itself belonged to one person, there is little practical way for the code to be forked with proprietory add ons. > 3) M$ will contribute to the open source community to "pollute" the > well. Remember how simple HTML was before M$ started setting up their > own "standards". > Marketing will talk about how M$ is nice enought to bring "standards" > to the open community, etc. And nobody will follow these shite standards. Remember, M$ is not relevant in the corportate development environment as Gate$ admitted himself, and as more GNU/Linux developers take lions share of research and development budgets, anyone pointing their finger and saying they have a propritory standard to license will be about as popular as a lead balloon in the corporate environment. I've been in the M$ corporate development environment and the number of times we got shafted because of the unavailability of source code, and the creeking toy products we have to fix, you can't persuade someone like me to invest millions in a windope future. There is no such future. There are so many open products out there, that even if I burn a LiveCD containing something new every day, I'd never finish for decades. I can pick up any one of these and make a corporate policy to enhance that GPL'd product to service all corporate needs. If I don't sell it, I don't need to show my code to others. If I do sell it - great - fair is fair, I got a leg up in my project with open source code, now I'll contribute something back. If I'm mean, I can make ancilliary private software tools that has to be used in conjunction with the enhanced GPL code to obfuscate direct access to proprietory information. It will slow my competition down everybody is a winner. > 4) Having saturated most of the Intel market, M$ is after Sun & IBM's > Unix share of the server market. They are going after the large > enterprise space where the real revenue lies, in databases, > middleware, etc. They aren't going to do it with their current > kernel. It would not surprise me if they released their own revenue > generating binaries that sit on top of Linux. Eg, plug in's to > active directory, etc. This appears to be the track Novell is taking > with Suse. > They might almost release their own "standards based" distribution and > try to dilute the Redhat market. I doubt it - even Gate$ admits they are no longer relevant in the corporate development environment. > 5) M$'s next big revenue generating project is M$ Virtual Server, > using a play on the name of IBM "MVS" mainframe operating system. > They are getting beat up pretty bad for not supporting Linux. They > are several generations behind VMware, and may want to appear more > "open", just like IE2.0 was. Them things and also thin clients have been around for ages and have no impact. > 6) M$ will gladly steal/borrow from the open source community for > products such like Services for Unix. They already do - the BSD code. Thats why I'm thankful for GPL code. I'd be even more grateful if GPL3 came out with a legally implementable properly thought out and debated option to prevent using the software on anything other than open sourced operating systems.

Can you telling me whether the applications for this job are? mitchd wrote: > 7 <website_has_email@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3uGTc.161781$a8.28459@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>... > >>Daeron wrote: >> >> >>>What exactly are Microsoft's plans for Linux on Windows? >>>Joe Barr Aug 13 2004 >>> >>>A Linux developer .. has told NewsForge he was recently contacted by >>>Microsoft and invited to a job interview. He accepted, and during the >>>interview he asked the obvious question: Why was Microsoft interested in >>>hiring someone with strong Linux skills? The reply was that Microsoft is >>>working on an emulator that will allow Windows users to run Unix. >> >>Interesting but it ain't gonna work for M$. >>As soon as GNU/Linux applications start running in emulating >>on M$ without a hickup, people are gonna want >>start using GNU/Linux because it will run faster without >>the emulation and is free. To stay alive, M$ is gonna have >>to pray they can make a windope emulator that runs OK in >>in GNU/Linux. Thats the only way Bill$. Release the source >>code and compete with wine! >> >> >>>http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/12/2048237 > > > Having grown up on the M$ roadmap, and being an MSCE from 3.51 => w2k, > here are some thoughts: > > 1) Microsoft will develop tools which allow users to migrate Linux > systems to the next version of windows. While few users will do > this, it will give them the marketing perception that Linux is not the > answer. They had a similiar tools they used to kill Novell Netware. > > 2) Hiring key Linux developers would allow M$ to lock them in to > intellectual property agreements. This would effectively allow > Microsoft to sue the community as SCO has. Even if M$ intellectual > capitol was not stolen, again they would have the marketing > perceptions. Even installing the products and agreeing to the EULA > (End User License Agreement) can limit one's freedom publish benchmark > of Windows. > > 3) M$ will contribute to the open source community to "pollute" the > well. Remember how simple HTML was before M$ started setting up their > own "standards". > Marketing will talk about how M$ is nice enought to bring "standards" > to the open community, etc. > > 4) Having saturated most of the Intel market, M$ is after Sun & IBM's > Unix share of the server market. They are going after the large > enterprise space where the real revenue lies, in databases, > middleware, etc. They aren't going to do it with their current > kernel. It would not surprise me if they released their own revenue > generating binaries that sit on top of Linux. Eg, plug in's to > active directory, etc. This appears to be the track Novell is taking > with Suse. > They might almost release their own "standards based" distribution and > try to dilute the Redhat market. > > 5) M$'s next big revenue generating project is M$ Virtual Server, > using a play on the name of IBM "MVS" mainframe operating system. > They are getting beat up pretty bad for not supporting Linux. They > are several generations behind VMware, and may want to appear more > "open", just like IE2.0 was. > > 6) M$ will gladly steal/borrow from the open source community for > products such like Services for Unix.

On 15 Aug 2004 10:05:53 -0700, Peter Bilt wrote: > Daeron <daeron@demon.com> wrote in message news: >> Nobody is hiring Linux developers, why? > > > Because nobody uses Linux. Get your MCSE + learn to develop for > Windows, then you'll get a job! Most of the places I've worked - Windows shops - as soon as they see the MCSE, the resume goes to the bottom of the pile and if it ever reaches the top, its owner _may_ be considered for a tech support position - but never for a development role. Seems that MCSEs have a bad reputation for having meaningless certifications instead of actual useful knowledge.

On 15 Aug 2004 14:17:24 -0700, mitchd wrote: > 3) M$ will contribute to the open source community to "pollute" the > well. Remember how simple HTML was before M$ started setting up their > own "standards". Umm.. actually, the complexity of HTML is largely the fault of the W3C. CSS is so complex that not a single browser has 100% compatibility. There's also not a single browser that even makes an effort to fully support all the W3C standards. > 5) M$'s next big revenue generating project is M$ Virtual Server, > using a play on the name of IBM "MVS" mainframe operating system. > They are getting beat up pretty bad for not supporting Linux. They > are several generations behind VMware, and may want to appear more > "open", just like IE2.0 was. Hmm.. odd, MS Virtual Server is just a rebadged Connectix Virtual PC, and that runs Linux just fine. What they got beat up over was their MacOS support. > 6) M$ will gladly steal/borrow from the open source community for > products such like Services for Unix. MS bought SFU, and they're following the GPL license so i'd hardly calling that "stealing".

On 15 Aug 2004 10:05:53 -0700, peterbilt_usa@hotmail.com (Peter Bilt) wrote: >Daeron <daeron@demon.com> wrote in message news: >> Nobody is hiring Linux developers, why? > > >Because nobody uses Linux. Get your MCSE + learn to develop for >Windows, then you'll get a job! > There are three types of people: 1. Those who make things happen 2. Those who see things happen 3. Those who wonder what has happened. People banking on a lifelong career with Windows will wake up one day wondering what has happened. Years ago a steam locomotive engineer knew that his employer would soon be wanting some electric loco enineers to work what was then the longest tunnel in the Southern Hemisphere (about 5 miles long). So he did a correspondence course in his own time on electric railway traction. Guess who was one of the first electric loco engineers hired. Windows techies who learn about Linux in their spare time will be all set for the inevitable destructive technology change.

Peter wrote: > On 15 Aug 2004 10:05:53 -0700, peterbilt_usa@hotmail.com (Peter Bilt) > wrote: > >>Daeron <daeron@demon.com> wrote in message news: >>> Nobody is hiring Linux developers, why? >> >> >>Because nobody uses Linux. Get your MCSE + learn to develop for >>Windows, then you'll get a job! >> > There are three types of people: > 1. Those who make things happen > 2. Those who see things happen > 3. Those who wonder what has happened. > > People banking on a lifelong career with Windows will wake up one day > wondering what has happened. > > Years ago a steam locomotive engineer knew that his employer would > soon be wanting some electric loco enineers to work what was then the > longest tunnel in the Southern Hemisphere (about 5 miles long). So he > did a correspondence course in his own time on electric railway > traction. Guess who was one of the first electric loco engineers > hired. > > Windows techies who learn about Linux in their spare time will be all > set for the inevitable destructive technology change. www.go-mono.com All of you fools who write compiled code are the dinosaurs. Java and c# are dominating the service oriented, highly messaged architecture... Linux is the best and most stable platform for the new frameworks for SOA. -- incognito, updated 8/14/2004 http://kentpsychedelic.blogspot.com

On 2004-08-16, Peter <peterwn@parazzdise.net.nz> sputtered: > On 15 Aug 2004 10:05:53 -0700, peterbilt_usa@hotmail.com (Peter Bilt) > wrote: > >>Daeron <daeron@demon.com> wrote in message news: >>> Nobody is hiring Linux developers, why? >> >> >>Because nobody uses Linux. Get your MCSE + learn to develop for >>Windows, then you'll get a job! >> > There are three types of people: > 1. Those who make things happen > 2. Those who see things happen > 3. Those who wonder what has happened. > > People banking on a lifelong career with Windows will wake up one day > wondering what has happened. Oh, they'll know. They'll have a couple of websites that keep preaching about the major comeback that's just on the horizon. They'll tout all of the "good news" that's happening every couple of years* as proof. Like some of the C-64 people do now. * Often in the form of another web page that hints at this imminent revitalization, or about someone in Dahka, Bangladesh mentioning needing one for a museum. -- It is easier to fix Linux than it is to live with XP.