f



Microsoft Forces Windows 10 Downloads Onto Windows 7 And Windows 8

The saga continues.

Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto 
Windows 7 and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade, 
Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one 
serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers 
even when users chose NOT to upgrade.

This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The 
Inquirer when a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded 
onto their computer despite the fact they expressly declined the 
opportunity to upgrade:

�The symptoms are repeated failed �Upgrade to Windows 10' in the 
WU update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled 
�$Windows.~BT�,� the reader explained. �I thought Microsoft 
[said] this �upgrade� was optional. If so, why is it being 
pushed out to so many computers where it wasn�t reserved, and 
why does it try to install over and over again?

He continued: �I know of two instances where people on metered 
connections went over their data cap for August because of this 
unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a 
week or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that�s what 
led me to it. Not only does it download, it tries to install 
every time the computer is booted.�

Microsoft Confirms New Policy

Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The 
Inquirer, Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are 
doing to all computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:

�For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates 
through Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for 
Windows 10 by downloading the files they�ll need if they decide 
to upgrade. When the upgrade is ready, the customer will be 
prompted to install Windows 10 on the device,� said a Microsoft 
spokesperson.

Now let�s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8 
�individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates 
through Windows Update� is essentially everyone.

So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates 
(not recommended), you will be receiving (and have already 
received) a 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points 
out, this can be found at: C:\$windows.~BT

Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File 
Explorer and go to: Organize > Folder Options > View > Show 
hidden files, folders, and drives.

The Fall Out

So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain 
divided over Windows 10�s forced updates, for Microsoft to 
presumptuously take a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and 
Windows 8 user�s storage (and data allowance) downloading 
Windows 10 even if they specifically state they do not want to 
upgrade is a big step too far.

Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve 
here. When a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large 
download to begin and there to be some waiting time. But 
Microsoft downloading Windows 10 anyway just to skip this wait 
for users who don�t want Windows 10 is complete madness.

So what are your options�

What To Do

For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space 
and/or Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options 
are limited.

The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely, 
but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual 
cycle of vetting every update to keep your computer update and 
secure.

Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 
10 downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the 
C:\$windows folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed 
whether it will simply start downloading it again!

I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here 
and will update the post when/if the company responds.

In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a 
dangerous crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 
and Windows 8 which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 
10 and now it is downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 
8 computers computers whether users want it or not.

Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up 
user trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a 
few months�

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/

0
Jeremy
9/12/2015 5:49:31 PM
comp.os.linux.advocacy 124139 articles. 3 followers. Post Follow

228 Replies
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On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
> The saga continues.
>
> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto
> Windows 7 and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
> serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers
> even when users chose NOT to upgrade.
>
> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The
> Inquirer when a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded
> onto their computer despite the fact they expressly declined the
> opportunity to upgrade:
>
> �The symptoms are repeated failed �Upgrade to Windows 10' in the
> WU update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
> �$Windows.~BT�,� the reader explained. �I thought Microsoft
> [said] this �upgrade� was optional. If so, why is it being
> pushed out to so many computers where it wasn�t reserved, and
> why does it try to install over and over again?
>
> He continued: �I know of two instances where people on metered
> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a
> week or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that�s what
> led me to it. Not only does it download, it tries to install
> every time the computer is booted.�
>
> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>
> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The
> Inquirer, Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are
> doing to all computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>
> �For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates
> through Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for
> Windows 10 by downloading the files they�ll need if they decide
> to upgrade. When the upgrade is ready, the customer will be
> prompted to install Windows 10 on the device,� said a Microsoft
> spokesperson.
>
> Now let�s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
> �individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates
> through Windows Update� is essentially everyone.
>
> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates
> (not recommended), you will be receiving (and have already
> received) a 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points
> out, this can be found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>
> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show
> hidden files, folders, and drives.
>
> The Fall Out
>
> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain
> divided over Windows 10�s forced updates, for Microsoft to
> presumptuously take a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and
> Windows 8 user�s storage (and data allowance) downloading
> Windows 10 even if they specifically state they do not want to
> upgrade is a big step too far.
>
> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve
> here. When a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large
> download to begin and there to be some waiting time. But
> Microsoft downloading Windows 10 anyway just to skip this wait
> for users who don�t want Windows 10 is complete madness.
>
> So what are your options�
>
> What To Do
>
> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space
> and/or Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options
> are limited.
>
> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual
> cycle of vetting every update to keep your computer update and
> secure.
>
> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows
> 10 downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the
> C:\$windows folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed
> whether it will simply start downloading it again!
>
> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here
> and will update the post when/if the company responds.
>
> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a
> dangerous crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7
> and Windows 8 which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows
> 10 and now it is downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows
> 8 computers computers whether users want it or not.
>
> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up
> user trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a
> few months�
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>
That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
Nor was it forced upon me.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/12/2015 7:48:05 PM
  I have had updates turned completely off for over a year now due 
to all the government and MS spying going on.  Never had any 
(known) problems since.  I am not so sure that turning off updates 
is really such a bad idea.  MS had plenty of time to work out any 
major bugs/security problems during the years W7 was auto updating 
my machine.  I know that new problems can arise, but is there 
really a bigger problem that MS doing this?  I keep all my private 
data in encrypted files on external drives that are plugged in only 
when I need to use the data.
Programs accessing the data are run in a sandbox.

0
Jack
9/12/2015 8:49:17 PM
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:

> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>> The saga continues.
>>
>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>
>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>
>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>> and over again?
>>
>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>> computer is booted.”
>>
>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>
>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>
>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>
>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>
>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>
>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>> files, folders, and drives.
>>
>> The Fall Out
>>
>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>
>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>> complete madness.
>>
>> So what are your options…
>>
>> What To Do
>>
>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>
>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>
>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>> downloading it again!
>>
>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>
>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>> whether users want it or not.
>>
>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>
>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>
> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
> Nor was it forced upon me.


Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/12/2015 10:28:03 PM
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
> 
>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>> The saga continues.
>>>
>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>
>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>
>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>>> and over again?
>>>
>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>> computer is booted.”
>>>
>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>
>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>
>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>
>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>
>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>
>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>
>>> The Fall Out
>>>
>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>
>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>> complete madness.
>>>
>>> So what are your options…
>>>
>>> What To Do
>>>
>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>
>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>> downloading it again!
>>>
>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>
>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>
>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>
>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>
>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>> Nor was it forced upon me.
> 
> 
> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
> 
> 

Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth

There are even articles around telling how to get rid of that unwanted 
"update". Which people get when they have "automatic updates" enabled 

You MS shills may deny the truth as long as you want, it does not change 
though. Even MS itself was forced to admit that they force that Win10 shite 
down peoples throats

0
Peter
9/12/2015 10:33:33 PM
In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>
> You MS shills

STFU FOAD.

0
Lehman
9/12/2015 10:46:00 PM
Lehman wrote:

> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You MS shills
> 
> STFU FOAD.

Idiot.

But then you are a dizumn coward. Abject stupidity does not nearly describe 
your mental "abilities". And you use windows
0
Peter
9/12/2015 10:59:05 PM
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:33:33 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>> 
>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>
>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>
>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>>>> and over again?
>>>>
>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>
>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>
>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>
>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>
>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>
>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>
>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>
>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>> complete madness.
>>>>
>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>
>>>> What To Do
>>>>
>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>
>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>>> downloading it again!
>>>>
>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>
>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>
>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>> 
>> 
>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>> 
>> 
> 
> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth

Wasn't forced on me either. 

+SHADDUP shit for brains 

 
> There are even articles around telling how to get rid of that unwanted 
> "update". Which people get when they have "automatic updates" enabled 
> 
> You MS shills may deny the truth as long as you want, it does not change 
> though. Even MS itself was forced to admit that they force that Win10 shite 
> down peoples throats



Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

-- 
p-0.0-h the cat

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the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, 
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snittish scumbag, liar, total ******* retard, shill, pooh-seur, 
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Signature integrity check
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0
p
9/12/2015 11:09:37 PM
p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:33:33 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> 
>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>> serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even
>>>>> when users chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>
>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>
>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>> this ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so
>>>>> many computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to
>>>>> install over and over again?
>>>>>
>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>
>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be
>>>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>
>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>
>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>
>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>
>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>>
>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>> folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply
>>>>> start downloading it again!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>> will update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>>
>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>
>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth
> 
> Wasn't forced on me either.

Lying comes natural to peabrains like you

> +SHADDUP shit for brains

Make me, dimbulb
0
Peter
9/12/2015 11:11:07 PM
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:11:07 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:33:33 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> 
>>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>>> serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even
>>>>>> when users chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>>> this ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so
>>>>>> many computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to
>>>>>> install over and over again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be
>>>>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>>> folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply
>>>>>> start downloading it again!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>>> will update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>>
>>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth
>> 
>> Wasn't forced on me either.
> 
> Lying comes natural to peabrains like you

Well I'm not lying dickhead, and I'm actually a lot lot smarter than you.
Partly that's genetic and partly I earned it. What's your excuse? Did life
deal you a bad hand?


>> +SHADDUP shit for brains
> 
> Make me, dimbulb



Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

-- 
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath, 
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, 
troll infâme, the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers]
lowlife troll, shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, 
sociopath, kook, smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, 
snittish scumbag, liar, total ******* retard, shill, pooh-seur, 
scouringerer, the most complete ignoid, and furball.

NewsGroups Numbrer One Terrorist
 
Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.

Signature integrity check
md5 Checksum: be0b2a8c486d83ce7db9a459b26c4896
0
p
9/12/2015 11:16:42 PM
On 9/12/2015 6:28 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:

>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>
>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>
>
> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.


Nor mine.


0
DFS
9/13/2015 2:56:45 AM
On 2015-09-12 7:11 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:33:33 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>>> serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even
>>>>>> when users chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>>> this ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so
>>>>>> many computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to
>>>>>> install over and over again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be
>>>>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>>> folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply
>>>>>> start downloading it again!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>>> will update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>>
>>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth
>>
>> Wasn't forced on me either.
> 
> Lying comes natural to peabrains like you
> 
>> +SHADDUP shit for brains
> 
> Make me, dimbulb

Oh, Peter the Klöwn is showing how tough he is. Watch it, people, he's
German. He submits to no one... except thousands of refugees from Syria
who gladly take over his house and kick his ass if he smells like alcohol.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/13/2015 2:59:03 AM
On 09/12/15 16:33, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>
>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>
>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>>>> and over again?
>>>>
>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>
>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>
>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>
>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>
>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>
>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>   Folder Options>   View>   Show hidden
>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>
>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>
>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>> complete madness.
>>>>
>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>
>>>> What To Do
>>>>
>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>
>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>>> downloading it again!
>>>>
>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>
>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>>  confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>
>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>
>>
>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>
>>
>
> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth
>

Hah!  It's pure FUD.

> There are even articles around telling how to get rid of that unwanted
> "update". Which people get when they have "automatic updates" enabled
>
> You MS shills may deny the truth as long as you want, it does not change
> though. Even MS itself was forced to admit that they force that Win10 shite
> down peoples throats
>

Still hasn't happened, liar.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/13/2015 2:59:25 AM
On 09/12/15 17:11, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:33:33 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>>> serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even
>>>>>> when users chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>>> this ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so
>>>>>> many computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to
>>>>>> install over and over again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be
>>>>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>   Folder Options>   View>   Show hidden
>>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>>> folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply
>>>>>> start downloading it again!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>>> will update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>>
>>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth
>>
>> Wasn't forced on me either.
>
> Lying comes natural to peabrains like you
>

And nutsos like you are a natural liar.

LOL!!!

>> +SHADDUP shit for brains
>
> Make me, dimbulb

Gee, there is a crack in your bulb.  Your lights are on but nobody is home.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/13/2015 3:00:41 AM
On 09/12/15 14:49, Jack Ryan wrote:
>    I have had updates turned completely off for over a year now due
> to all the government and MS spying going on.  Never had any
> (known) problems since.  I am not so sure that turning off updates
> is really such a bad idea.  MS had plenty of time to work out any
> major bugs/security problems during the years W7 was auto updating
> my machine.  I know that new problems can arise, but is there
> really a bigger problem that MS doing this?  I keep all my private
> data in encrypted files on external drives that are plugged in only
> when I need to use the data.
> Programs accessing the data are run in a sandbox.
>
I just set mine updates to "Let me look at them first".
I haven't needed any for over a year now, as most are designed to allow 
win7 update to win10.  I'm fine with win7 just the way it is.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/13/2015 3:02:31 AM
On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You MS shills
> 
> STFU FOAD.
> 

WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???

I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE, just to
irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
choice.

0
Big
9/13/2015 5:48:45 AM
On 09/12/15 13:49, Jack Ryan so wittily quipped:
>   I have had updates turned completely off for over a year now due 
> to all the government and MS spying going on.  Never had any 
> (known) problems since.  I am not so sure that turning off updates 
> is really such a bad idea.  MS had plenty of time to work out any 
> major bugs/security problems during the years W7 was auto updating 
> my machine.  I know that new problems can arise, but is there 
> really a bigger problem that MS doing this?  I keep all my private 
> data in encrypted files on external drives that are plugged in only 
> when I need to use the data.
> Programs accessing the data are run in a sandbox.
> 

that works ok for XP but I prefer to get the updates.  SO I turn all
"automatic" things off, INCLUDING 'download the update but let me
approve it'.  it's "manual only" for me.  *I* decide when to scan, when
to install, and which updates to do it with.  The updates in question
are generally 'optional' and there's a lot of info going around as to
which one.

I recently posted this in alt.hacker on 9/1 [note lots of cross-posting
on this thread, including AH] along with others before:

<quote>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/microsoft_backports_data_slurp_to_windows_78_via_patches/

"We recently mused, half seriously, whether the entire point of the
Windows 10 upgrade was to harvest your personal information. With
Microsoft suffering from a serious case of Google envy, perhaps it felt
it had some catching up to do."

that definitely seems to be the case, I'd say

"All the updates can be removed post-installation � but all ensure the
OS reports data to Microsoft even when asked not to, bypassing the hosts
file and (hence) third-party privacy tools."

same list as before:  KB3068708, KB3075249, KB3080149
</quote>


0
Big
9/13/2015 5:54:24 AM
On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You MS shills
>>
>> STFU FOAD.
>>
>
> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>
> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE, just to
> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
> choice.

You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...

0
Nobody
9/13/2015 8:56:14 AM
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <ba463e8e9a01b12fe54cda1be8f5f647@anemone.mooo.com>, Jeremy 
>Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> writes
>>So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not 
>>recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB 
>>silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found 
>>at: C:\$windows.~BT
>
>It's not actually necessary to switch of /all/ Windows updates. It's 
>sufficient to switch off "optional" updates, continuing to download 
>"essential" ones. I have always had optional updates switched off, and 
>there is no hidden C:\$windows.~BT on my Windows 7 machine.
>
>Of course it's always possible that at some time in the future Microsoft 
>will decide to upgrade the relevant updates from optional to essential.

And when that's not enough for Micro$py to hijack everyone's
Windows 7 installations, no doubt they'll go from "essential"
to completely forced updates to Win$py 10 without any options
whatsoever, like the "Borg" on StarTrek NG:

                     "Resistance is futile!"

-- 
Bub

0
Bubba
9/13/2015 12:16:51 PM
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015, chicagofan <me7@privacy.net> wrote:

>John Hall wrote:
>> In message <ba463e8e9a01b12fe54cda1be8f5f647@anemone.mooo.com>, Jeremy 
>> Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> writes
>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not 
>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 
>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be 
>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>
>> It's not actually necessary to switch of /all/ Windows updates. It's 
>> sufficient to switch off "optional" updates, continuing to download 
>> "essential" ones. I have always had optional updates switched off, and 
>> there is no hidden C:\$windows.~BT on my Windows 7 machine.
>>
>> Of course it's always possible that at some time in the future 
>> Microsoft will decide to upgrade the relevant updates from optional to 
>> essential.
>They are working their way there now.  :)
>
>I've noticed on my Win7 updates waiting for action lately, labels for 
>"optional" have disappeared, they moved to "recommended" briefly, and 
>way too many now, are labeled "security" ... with vague descriptions.   
>I feel MS thinks if they make investigating their "updates" too lengthy, 
>tiresome, and in some cases impossible ... we will all just give in and 
>turn our computers over to their key loggers and automatic updates.   
>Guess I'm just going to stop them ALL at that point.
>
M$ appears to be pulling out all the stops, which means
there are two possibilities.  They are desperate.  They
are under the thumbscrews of Big Brother.  Maybe both?
If M$ doesn't do a one-eighty on this forced version "10"
update Micro$py disaster, they're likely to lose more
business than they could ever expect to gain from it.

>After that, when Win7 becomes unusable on too many web sites, I'll 
>switch to Linux.
>bj

I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
so that might further motivate them to join forces and
standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.

-- 
Bub

0
Bubba
9/13/2015 1:14:15 PM
On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You MS shills
>>>
>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>
>>
>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>
>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE, just to
>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>> choice.
> 
> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
> 

it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.

people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.

So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".

And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
exclusive country club or clique.

So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.


0
Big
9/13/2015 5:38:21 PM
On 09/13/15 10:38, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>
>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>
>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE, just to
>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>> choice.
>>
>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>
> 
> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
> 

<snip>

> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.

I ought to mention something that's clearly obvious to the REST of us,
that if we went out to a bar and someone like *THAT* was there, it's
highly likely that this person would either be EJECTED by the bouncer,
or end up in a brawl, most likely a DESERVED one, and with a nice
hospital stay to go with it.

In other words, "STFU trolls" deserve a *SERIOUS* *ASS* *KICKING* IRL.


0
Big
9/13/2015 5:42:31 PM
On 09/13/15 07:14, Bubba wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015, chicagofan<me7@privacy.net>  wrote:
>
>> John Hall wrote:
>>> In message<ba463e8e9a01b12fe54cda1be8f5f647@anemone.mooo.com>, Jeremy
>>> Bentham<nobody@anemone.mooo.com>  writes
>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be
>>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>
>>> It's not actually necessary to switch of /all/ Windows updates. It's
>>> sufficient to switch off "optional" updates, continuing to download
>>> "essential" ones. I have always had optional updates switched off, and
>>> there is no hidden C:\$windows.~BT on my Windows 7 machine.
>>>
>>> Of course it's always possible that at some time in the future
>>> Microsoft will decide to upgrade the relevant updates from optional to
>>> essential.
>> They are working their way there now.  :)
>>
>> I've noticed on my Win7 updates waiting for action lately, labels for
>> "optional" have disappeared, they moved to "recommended" briefly, and
>> way too many now, are labeled "security" ... with vague descriptions.
>> I feel MS thinks if they make investigating their "updates" too lengthy,
>> tiresome, and in some cases impossible ... we will all just give in and
>> turn our computers over to their key loggers and automatic updates.
>> Guess I'm just going to stop them ALL at that point.
>>
> M$ appears to be pulling out all the stops, which means
> there are two possibilities.  They are desperate.  They
> are under the thumbscrews of Big Brother.  Maybe both?
> If M$ doesn't do a one-eighty on this forced version "10"
> update Micro$py disaster, they're likely to lose more
> business than they could ever expect to gain from it.
>
>> After that, when Win7 becomes unusable on too many web sites, I'll
>> switch to Linux.
>> bj
>
> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>

I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind of 
standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
But it can be done.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/13/2015 5:46:50 PM
On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>
>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>
>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE, just to
>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>> choice.
>>
>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>
>
> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>
> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>
> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>
> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
> exclusive country club or clique.
>
> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.

I like you Bob!

I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to 
comp.os.linux.advocacy.

0
Nobody
9/13/2015 6:26:42 PM
On 9/13/15, 10:38 AM, in article
-rydnZB-r5I5KWjInZ2dnUU7-RGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You MS shills
>>>> 
>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>> 
>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE, just to
>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>> choice.
>> 
>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>> 
> 
> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
> 
> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.

Yup. And the ones who beg others to not even talk to someone who has a
different view of technology. Just weird.

> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
> 
> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
> exclusive country club or clique.

Right. I say use what you like. If you happen to agree with me, great! If
you happen to disagree with me, great!

Meanwhile, in a forum on technology, let's talk about technology. My
personal focus is usability: how do you get tasks done and how well does a
system handle it. Others have other focuses. Great!

And we all make silly and wrong comments from time to time. Oh well. Admit
it and move on. 

> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.

I do not hate... but I recognize them for what they are.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/13/2015 6:33:43 PM
On 09/13/15 11:26, Nobody so wittily quipped:
> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>
>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>
>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>> just to
>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>>> choice.
>>>
>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>
>>
>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>
>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>
>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>
>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
>> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>
>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
> 
> I like you Bob!
> 
> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
> 

thanks - I do a lot with Linux as well (mostly Debian, Ubu, and Mint),
and write or modifie linux kernel drivers on occasion [did a bunch of
netfilter and wifi stuff within the last decade].  Mostly it's 'whatever
makes the most sense' for what I use for my day-to-day stuff.

There are some close ties between Debian and FreeBSD if you haven't
already noticed.  Debian having a BSD kernel option is only one of them.



0
Big
9/13/2015 6:37:50 PM
On 09/13/15 11:33, Snit so wittily quipped:
>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
> 
> I do not hate... but I recognize them for what they are.
> 

yeah I probably never got over the fact that I "got bigger" than the Jr.
High bullies.  pounding them can be *FUN*.  I wish I could go back in
time and put some of them in the hospital for extended stays.



0
Big
9/13/2015 6:39:16 PM
Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

>Right. I say use what you like. If you happen to agree with me, great! If
>you happen to disagree with me, great!
>
>Meanwhile, in a forum on technology, let's talk about technology. My
>personal focus is usability: how do you get tasks done and how well does a
>system handle it. Others have other focuses. Great!


Good to see you still supporting a free-spirited debate, Snit! :)

For the record, I upgraded to Windows 10 immediately when it was
available, and have had no trouble configuring it to control what kind
of information is collected about my usage.  I simply don't believe
the hype - whether one is using fully updated Windows 7 or 8.1, or
Windows 10, they can control their system just like they always could.

-- 
Joel Crump
0
Joel
9/13/2015 6:46:22 PM
On 09/13/15 10:46, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>>> After that, when Win7 becomes unusable on too many web sites, I'll
>>> switch to Linux.
>>> bj
>>
>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>
> 
> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind of
> standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
> But it can be done.
> 

Linux is the only serious competitive option (other than Apple, which is
for proprietary hardware) aside from Microsoft for desktop and notebook PCs.

[although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
time, but may in the future...]

Don't count out IBM.

Microsoft's success was based on MARKETING, and not quality of product.
 If you can sell ice cubes to Eskimos (I spit in the general direction
of political correctness), you can make MS Windows "that much of the
market".

Microsoft forgot that SOFTWARE made their OS popular.  They used to say
"developers developers developers developers".  but not any more.  Now
they say "here, developers, is a DUMBED DOWN API - NOW *USE* IT, DAMMIT!
 Because WE say so!".  Happened twice now, ".Not" then "the METRO".
'universal' is a *JOKE*.

In the Linux world, however, there aren't *ENOUGH* decent tools.  KDE
has commercial tools available for Qt, though. Not enough.

I started a project [wanted to do my own toolkit for X11] for a PROPER
IDE for POSIX systems.  Got bogged down in the *LACK* of actual
*STANDARDS* for things like the clipboard.  It's kinda hackish and ugly.

GTK is interesting but clumsy (especially for dialog boxen).  wxWidgets
is smarter, but kinda piggy (unless you're porting a Windows MFC
application, in which case it helps you do it faster).  I haven't done
much with Qt other than compile it for something else.


So yeah there's quite a bit of *FRAGMENTATION* here.  And for free
software that's a free download, where's the motivation to MARKET IT and
provide the necessary 'glue' to get things rolling?


0
Big
9/13/2015 6:49:05 PM
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:

> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.

Too funny. 


Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

-- 
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the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, 
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sociopath, kook, smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, 
snittish scumbag, liar, total ******* retard, shill, pooh-seur, 
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0
p
9/13/2015 6:56:41 PM
On 09/13/2015 01:46 PM, Joel wrote:
> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> Right. I say use what you like. If you happen to agree with me, great! If
>> you happen to disagree with me, great!
>>
>> Meanwhile, in a forum on technology, let's talk about technology. My
>> personal focus is usability: how do you get tasks done and how well does a
>> system handle it. Others have other focuses. Great!
>
>
> Good to see you still supporting a free-spirited debate, Snit! :)
>
> For the record, I upgraded to Windows 10 immediately when it was
> available, and have had no trouble configuring it to control what kind
> of information is collected about my usage.  I simply don't believe
> the hype - whether one is using fully updated Windows 7 or 8.1, or
> Windows 10, they can control their system just like they always could.

Now ask that "free spirit" about this:

"As noted: you lie and troll for attention. Remember when you used to 
speak about eating dog shit for attention? You have not changed." -- 
Micheal "Snit" Glasser

Ask the lying POS where his quotes are for that.

0
Nobody
9/13/2015 6:56:44 PM
On 09/13/2015 01:37 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/13/15 11:26, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>
>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>> just to
>>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>>>> choice.
>>>>
>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>
>>>
>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>
>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>
>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>
>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
>>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
>>> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
>>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>>
>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>
>> I like you Bob!
>>
>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>
>
> thanks - I do a lot with Linux as well (mostly Debian, Ubu, and Mint),
> and write or modifie linux kernel drivers on occasion [did a bunch of
> netfilter and wifi stuff within the last decade].  Mostly it's 'whatever
> makes the most sense' for what I use for my day-to-day stuff.

Impressive!

> There are some close ties between Debian and FreeBSD if you haven't
> already noticed.  Debian having a BSD kernel option is only one of them.

Yes, I've noticed.  Some of the internals use the BSD way of doing things.

I see all users of FOSS, whether it's Linux or BSD, to be allies.

0
Nobody
9/13/2015 7:02:16 PM
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>> The saga continues.
>>>
>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>
>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>
>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>>> and over again?
>>>
>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>> computer is booted.”
>>>
>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>
>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>
>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>
>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>
>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>
>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>
>>> The Fall Out
>>>
>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>
>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>> complete madness.
>>>
>>> So what are your options…
>>>
>>> What To Do
>>>
>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>
>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>> downloading it again!
>>>
>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>
>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>
>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>
>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>
>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>
>
>Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>
Me too, I installed / upgrade Win 10 on a few old boxes using the 
MediaCreationToolx64.exe
The Win 10 Update, KB3035583, is an optional update, I've seen it because I 
have updates set to "Let me look at them first".
I do not need KB3035583, so nothing was forced upon me.

0
Cola
9/13/2015 7:12:00 PM
Penis K�hlmann the Mainz Computer Guy yapped:
>
>Lehman wrote:
>
>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You MS shills
>>
>> STFU FOAD.
>
>Idiot.

Nice sig, Peter!
--
Kohlmann is a German slang for taking a shit.
Kohl-mann
'Coal-man'/Submit
verb
1.
discharge feces from the body.
synonyms:
excrete feces, defecate have a bowel movement, have a BM, evacuate one's 
bowels, relieve oneself, go to the bathroom; informaldo/go number two, poop, 
take a dump; vulgar slang take a crap
"nobody wants to see dogs taking a Kohlmann on the beach"

b.t.w.-
Peter K�hlmann lied in COLA: "I'm not on social media".

Google+: https://plus.google.com/109168722444410572286/posts
"Say hello to Peter"

0
Cola
9/13/2015 7:20:44 PM
On 9/13/15, 11:46 AM, in article 3lgbvapcupr4vqttqi6esgnsmbj3er7n0f@4ax.com,
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right. I say use what you like. If you happen to agree with me, great! If
>> you happen to disagree with me, great!
>> 
>> Meanwhile, in a forum on technology, let's talk about technology. My
>> personal focus is usability: how do you get tasks done and how well does a
>> system handle it. Others have other focuses. Great!
> 
> Good to see you still supporting a free-spirited debate, Snit! :)

Debate and discussion... it need not be contentious. A good example is Owl,
who I have disagreed with *strongly* on a number of occasions, gave a task
"challenge" to see if you could download all of the recipes linked from the
allrecipes.com website... and do it as PDFs.

He was able to do it on Linux. I was able to do it on OS X.

As long as the focus was on the task things went well. He and another person
were surprised the task was so easy on OS X and insisted that I had to be
lying about it, even though I provided my full script and a video of it
working (actually, multiple... but here is one):

<https://youtu.be/331vMJGm8CY>

Now if you fall asleep before the end of the video that is fine - really of
no value to anyone not interested in such task "challenges". And why this
task? Who knows... Owl never gave a reason for it, but hey, maybe someone
wants a bunch of chocolate chip cookie recipes - you can use the script with
the search results on allrecipes.com to get those, too.

I posted a number of other challenges which others have mostly avoided,
though with one "Nobody" tried, gave up, and said he would just send a link
and text instead of even trying to succeed with the challenge.

Here was the challenge:

* From a single online recipe (or art project, lesson plan, whatever) save
it and email a PDF version where you add notes to it. Now I know this can be
done on Linux; save, open, edit, email. Just curious to see how you people
would generally do it and how streamlined the workflow would be. A couple
ways I might: <https://youtu.be/NPM_WldEBs0>.

> For the record, I upgraded to Windows 10 immediately when it was
> available, and have had no trouble configuring it to control what kind
> of information is collected about my usage.

I got it the other day in a VM. Have only played with it a bit though.

> I simply don't believe the hype - whether one is using fully updated Windows 7
> or 8.1, or Windows 10, they can control their system just like they always
> could.

I was not a fan of Windows 8 - though with the free Classic Menu I was OK
with it. I liked Windows 7. With both I did not like the very wide window
borders, but I think they went too far the other way with Windows 10 - now
there are none though you do have almost OS X style shadowing (though even
less than OS X has, and they have toned it down in recent versions).



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/13/2015 7:24:55 PM
Senile twat Peter Köhlmann, GNU/Linux-using laughing stock yapped:
>
>p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:33:33 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>>> serious step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even
>>>>>> when users chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer 
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>>> this ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so
>>>>>> many computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to
>>>>>> install over and over again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>>> 3-6GB silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be
>>>>>> found at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously 
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. 
>>>>>> When
>>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space 
>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are 
>>>>>> limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual 
>>>>>> cycle
>>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>>> folder. Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply
>>>>>> start downloading it again!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>>> will update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft->>>
>>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Naturally not. Can't have telling the truth
>>
>> Wasn't forced on me either.
>
>Lying comes natural to peabrains like you
>
>> +SHADDUP shit for brains
>
>Make me, dimbulb
>
>
You criminal swine, you *will* pay for your outrageous claims, someday! 

0
Cola
9/13/2015 7:28:49 PM
On 09/12/2015 03:49 PM, Jack Ryan wrote:
>    I have had updates turned completely off for over a year now due
> to all the government and MS spying going on.  Never had any
> (known) problems since.  I am not so sure that turning off updates
> is really such a bad idea.  MS had plenty of time to work out any
> major bugs/security problems during the years W7 was auto updating
> my machine.  I know that new problems can arise, but is there
> really a bigger problem that MS doing this?  I keep all my private
> data in encrypted files on external drives that are plugged in only
> when I need to use the data.
> Programs accessing the data are run in a sandbox.
>

And I seldom if ever use MS programs to access the internet (browser, 
email, media player, FTP, etc...).

-- 
103 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Every one who publishes a blasphemous libel is guilty of an indictable
offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.
Criminal Code of Canada sec. 296(1) So, arrest me!"
0
Mark
9/13/2015 7:29:11 PM
On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>
> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind of
> standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
> But it can be done.
>
It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there 
are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with 
the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C 
(HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have 
"recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to standardize 
HTML than for Linux.

-- 
Best regards,

Neil
0
Neil
9/13/2015 7:32:18 PM
"Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> wrote in news:mt4iae$d4q$1@news.albasani.net:

> Nice

I see that the little Dutch punk Clogwog is still befouling Usenet with his oderous secretions. What a loser 
he is.
0
Dr
9/13/2015 8:08:00 PM
On 09/13/15 12:29, Mark Lloyd so wittily quipped:
> On 09/12/2015 03:49 PM, Jack Ryan wrote:
>>    I have had updates turned completely off for over a year now due
>> to all the government and MS spying going on.  Never had any
>> (known) problems since.  I am not so sure that turning off updates
>> is really such a bad idea.  MS had plenty of time to work out any
>> major bugs/security problems during the years W7 was auto updating
>> my machine.  I know that new problems can arise, but is there
>> really a bigger problem that MS doing this?  I keep all my private
>> data in encrypted files on external drives that are plugged in only
>> when I need to use the data.
>> Programs accessing the data are run in a sandbox.
>>
> 
> And I seldom if ever use MS programs to access the internet (browser,
> email, media player, FTP, etc...).
> 

a wise practice.  "Safe Surfing".  also helps NOT to have admin/root
level privs of whatever user is running the browser.

I actually had some W10 advocates in the 'Insider' program tell me that
it was OK now to use an admin user (with IE of course) to surf the
internet, telling me that the OS *now* protected you.

Then of course, last week, was a WHOLE PILE of vulnerability fixes for
every windows release SINCE VISTA (including W10), 2 of which involved
PRIVILEGE ELEVATION.  Oops.  At least one of those *might* have been
protected against if you didn't surf the web logged in with admin rights.

[and I bet that turning off scripting for all but 'white listed' web
sites, like what 'NoScript' does in Firefox, very well might protect you
THE REST OF THE WAY - and if I can't surf the site with NoScript
enabled, I don't "go there"]

"Safe Surfing", yeah.  Obvious STD/CONDOM reference is obvious.

0
Big
9/13/2015 8:18:56 PM
"Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> wrote in news:mt4ipj$dsh$1@news.albasani.net:

> You criminal swine, you *will* pay for your outrageous claims, someday! 

Clogwog the Douche loser has less of a life than Snot Michael Glasser.
0
Dr
9/13/2015 8:53:59 PM
Dr. John Grubor wrote:

> "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> wrote in
> news:mt4ipj$dsh$1@news.albasani.net:
> 
>> You criminal swine, you *will* pay for your outrageous claims, someday!
> 
> Clogwog the Douche loser has less of a life than Snot Michael Glasser.

Difficult at best. Snit Glasser has *no* life at all
0
Peter
9/13/2015 9:15:52 PM
Neil wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind of
>> standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>> But it can be done.
>>
> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there 
> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with 
> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C 
> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have 
> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to standardize 
> HTML than for Linux.

Microsoft can't find something and stick with it, either.

-- 
Tempt not a desperate man.
		-- William Shakespeare, "Romeo and Juliet"
0
Chris
9/13/2015 10:54:38 PM
On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:

> 
> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
> time, but may in the future...]
> 
> Don't count out IBM.
> 

Haha haaaa...

Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs now
('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit - an
'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the rug under
their feet. However they were always destined for mediocrity. May they
RIP ('Rot in Peace').
0
Jenny
9/14/2015 7:26:01 AM
In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
"p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple" 
<super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>
> > I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
> > this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
> > so that might further motivate them to join forces and
> > standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
> > version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
> > more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
> > hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
> > the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>
> Too funny.

Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went 
out the window.

These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of 
jobs and then send the work to India.

0
Anonymous
9/14/2015 8:46:40 AM
Anonymous wrote:

> In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>
>> > I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>> > this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>> > so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>> > standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>> > version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>> > more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>> > hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>> > the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>
>> Too funny.
> 
> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
> out the window.
> 
> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
> jobs and then send the work to India.

Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
0
Peter
9/14/2015 8:49:16 AM
On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>
>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>
>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>> just to
>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>>> choice.
>>>
>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>
>>
>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>
>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>
>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>
>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
>> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>
>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
> 
> I like you Bob!
> 
> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
> comp.os.linux.advocacy.

Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy doesn't
attract anything but Windows users and liars.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/14/2015 1:18:58 PM
On 2015-09-13 3:02 PM, Nobody wrote:
> On 09/13/2015 01:37 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 09/13/15 11:26, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>> just to
>>>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or
>>>>>> not.  my
>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>
>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>
>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>
>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>>>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>>>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>>>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
>>>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
>>>> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
>>>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>>>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>
>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are: 
>>>> ignorant,
>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>
>>> I like you Bob!
>>>
>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>
>>
>> thanks - I do a lot with Linux as well (mostly Debian, Ubu, and Mint),
>> and write or modifie linux kernel drivers on occasion [did a bunch of
>> netfilter and wifi stuff within the last decade].  Mostly it's 'whatever
>> makes the most sense' for what I use for my day-to-day stuff.
> 
> Impressive!
> 
>> There are some close ties between Debian and FreeBSD if you haven't
>> already noticed.  Debian having a BSD kernel option is only one of them.
> 
> Yes, I've noticed.  Some of the internals use the BSD way of doing things.
> 
> I see all users of FOSS, whether it's Linux or BSD, to be allies.

BSD users aren't interesting in having liars as allies.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/14/2015 2:02:03 PM
A.M wrote:

> On 2015-09-13 3:02 PM, Nobody wrote:
>> On 09/13/2015 01:37 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/13/15 11:26, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>> just to
>>>>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or
>>>>>>> not.  my
>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>
>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>
>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>>>>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>>>>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>>>>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most
>>>>> likely
>>>>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY*
>>>>> don't like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still
>>>>> in Jr.
>>>>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>>>>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>>
>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>
>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>
>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> thanks - I do a lot with Linux as well (mostly Debian, Ubu, and Mint),
>>> and write or modifie linux kernel drivers on occasion [did a bunch of
>>> netfilter and wifi stuff within the last decade].  Mostly it's 'whatever
>>> makes the most sense' for what I use for my day-to-day stuff.
>> 
>> Impressive!
>> 
>>> There are some close ties between Debian and FreeBSD if you haven't
>>> already noticed.  Debian having a BSD kernel option is only one of them.
>> 
>> Yes, I've noticed.  Some of the internals use the BSD way of doing
>> things.
>> 
>> I see all users of FOSS, whether it's Linux or BSD, to be allies.
> 
> BSD users aren't interesting in having liars as allies.
> 

That may very well be true. That is why you can't be any of their "allies"

0
Peter
9/14/2015 2:50:48 PM
On 2015-09-14 10:50 AM, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> A.M wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-09-13 3:02 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>> On 09/13/2015 01:37 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>> On 09/13/15 11:26, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>> just to
>>>>>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or
>>>>>>>> not.  my
>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>>>>>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>>>>>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>>>>>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most
>>>>>> likely
>>>>>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY*
>>>>>> don't like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still
>>>>>> in Jr.
>>>>>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>>>>>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>
>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks - I do a lot with Linux as well (mostly Debian, Ubu, and Mint),
>>>> and write or modifie linux kernel drivers on occasion [did a bunch of
>>>> netfilter and wifi stuff within the last decade].  Mostly it's 'whatever
>>>> makes the most sense' for what I use for my day-to-day stuff.
>>>
>>> Impressive!
>>>
>>>> There are some close ties between Debian and FreeBSD if you haven't
>>>> already noticed.  Debian having a BSD kernel option is only one of them.
>>>
>>> Yes, I've noticed.  Some of the internals use the BSD way of doing
>>> things.
>>>
>>> I see all users of FOSS, whether it's Linux or BSD, to be allies.
>>
>> BSD users aren't interesting in having liars as allies.
>>
> 
> That may very well be true. That is why you can't be any of their "allies"

After all of these years, I'm still waiting for you to quote me lying
just once.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/14/2015 3:53:21 PM
On 2015-09-14 3:26 AM, Jenny Telia wrote:
> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>>
>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
>> time, but may in the future...]
>>
>> Don't count out IBM.
>>
> 
> Haha haaaa...
> 
> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2?

A promising operating system ruined by IBM's general incompetence.

> The Chinese make their PCs now
> ('Lenovo')

And they are shit. My wife wanted to buy a Lenovo when she got her
laptop in 2012 and even though I told her that they are no longer made
by IBM, she was convinced that they were just as good. Three years
later, the hard disk is dying and the hinges holding the lcd to the rest
of the computer broke on their own. The LCD just hangs off of the
computer like Ahlstrom's limp dick. It's so worthless that I convinced
my wife that it was a perfect candidate for Linux.

> and IBM have become what they always were in spirit - an
> 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the rug under
> their feet. However they were always destined for mediocrity. May they
> RIP ('Rot in Peace').

Absolutely. The world of technology will be better once IBM becomes a
distant and ancient memory.

-- 
A.M
0
A
9/14/2015 4:06:37 PM
On 2015-09-14 12:06, A.M wrote:
> On 2015-09-14 3:26 AM, Jenny Telia wrote:
>> >On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>[although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
>>> >>time, but may in the future...]
>>> >>
>>> >>Don't count out IBM.
>>> >>
>> >
>> >Haha haaaa...
>> >
>> >Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2?
> A promising operating system ruined by IBM's general incompetence.

And the basis for Windows NT and its successors. MS had the contract to 
write OS/2, after version 1 IIRC, MS and IBM split, and each developed 
the OS further.

IBM never did understand the personal computer, and IMO still doesn't. I 
suspect in both companies internal politics have too much effect on 
what's developed and how. That always happens when an organisation 
becomes too large. Now that Jobs is gone, Apple will suffer the same 
distractions from core purpose. He was a dictator.

-- 
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
0
Wolf
9/14/2015 4:16:31 PM
On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s>
wrote:

> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>> just to
>>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>>>> choice.
>>>> 
>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>> 
>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>> 
>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>> 
>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
>>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
>>> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
>>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>> 
>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>> 
>> I like you Bob!
>> 
>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
> 
> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy doesn't
> attract anything but Windows users and liars.
> 
LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are honest
about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest about tech
(though right now he is talking about OneNote and how great it is without,
yet, saying what it does other software does not).


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 4:34:57 PM
On 09/13/15 13:12, Cola Zealot wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>
>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>
>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>>>> and over again?
>>>>
>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>
>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>
>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>
>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>
>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>
>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize> Folder Options> View> Show hidden
>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>
>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>
>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>> complete madness.
>>>>
>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>
>>>> What To Do
>>>>
>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>
>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>>> downloading it again!
>>>>
>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>
>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>
>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>
>>
>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>
> Me too, I installed / upgrade Win 10 on a few old boxes using the
> MediaCreationToolx64.exe
> The Win 10 Update, KB3035583, is an optional update, I've seen it
> because I have updates set to "Let me look at them first".
> I do not need KB3035583, so nothing was forced upon me.
>

I've set mine the same way.  There is nothing wrong with win7 for my 
uses.  I kept the win7 hard drive in a safe place till I need to do any 
software changes to a project I delivered a couple of years ago.  I 
bought a new hard drive and now using Solaris and find that it is 
actually faster than linux, plus it has system self fixing capabilities 
that linux just doesn't have.  Fun to use, but it is very easy to swap 
out the drives and boot into win7 when I want to.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/14/2015 5:42:19 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:06:37 -0400, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> wrote:

>On 2015-09-14 3:26 AM, Jenny Telia wrote:
>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
>>> time, but may in the future...]
>>>
>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>
>> 
>> Haha haaaa...
>> 
>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2?
>
>A promising operating system ruined by IBM's general incompetence.

	It still is a very good operating system, if it's not
connected to the internet.
>
>> The Chinese make their PCs now
>> ('Lenovo')
>
>And they are shit. My wife wanted to buy a Lenovo when she got her
>laptop in 2012 and even though I told her that they are no longer made
>by IBM, she was convinced that they were just as good. Three years
>later, the hard disk is dying and the hinges holding the lcd to the rest
>of the computer broke on their own. The LCD just hangs off of the
>computer like Ahlstrom's limp dick. It's so worthless that I convinced
>my wife that it was a perfect candidate for Linux.
	
	I know this will come as a shock, but all laptops come
equipped with hard drives made by  Asians. So even if you buy 100%
American, when you open it up, you will see it is not.
	As to the limp dick thing, I'm sure your wife has a share of
the blame. Don't get depressed, it will only make matters worse.
	Appreciate the good word for Linux. If Linux can solve HDon
/limp-dick issues, maybe it should have a bigger following.
	[]'s
	
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012
0
Shadow
9/14/2015 5:42:34 PM
On 09/13/15 12:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/13/15 10:46, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>>>> After that, when Win7 becomes unusable on too many web sites, I'll
>>>> switch to Linux.
>>>> bj
>>>
>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>
>>
>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind of
>> standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>> But it can be done.
>>
>
> Linux is the only serious competitive option (other than Apple, which is
> for proprietary hardware) aside from Microsoft for desktop and notebook PCs.
>
> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
> time, but may in the future...]
>
> Don't count out IBM.
>
> Microsoft's success was based on MARKETING, and not quality of product.
>   If you can sell ice cubes to Eskimos (I spit in the general direction
> of political correctness), you can make MS Windows "that much of the
> market".
>
> Microsoft forgot that SOFTWARE made their OS popular.  They used to say
> "developers developers developers developers".  but not any more.  Now
> they say "here, developers, is a DUMBED DOWN API - NOW *USE* IT, DAMMIT!
>   Because WE say so!".  Happened twice now, ".Not" then "the METRO".
> 'universal' is a *JOKE*.
>
> In the Linux world, however, there aren't *ENOUGH* decent tools.  KDE
> has commercial tools available for Qt, though. Not enough.
>
> I started a project [wanted to do my own toolkit for X11] for a PROPER
> IDE for POSIX systems.  Got bogged down in the *LACK* of actual
> *STANDARDS* for things like the clipboard.  It's kinda hackish and ugly.
>
> GTK is interesting but clumsy (especially for dialog boxen).  wxWidgets
> is smarter, but kinda piggy (unless you're porting a Windows MFC
> application, in which case it helps you do it faster).  I haven't done
> much with Qt other than compile it for something else.
>
>
> So yeah there's quite a bit of *FRAGMENTATION* here.  And for free
> software that's a free download, where's the motivation to MARKET IT and
> provide the necessary 'glue' to get things rolling?
>
>
It does appear to be an enigma.  Somebody may come around and solve the 
problem.
I still have my old vaxstation vlc with VMS 6 on it, but would really 
like to find some video adaptor plug from rgb coax to VGA.  The old 
cables deteriorated plus the monitor that used rgb coax is dead.

But for me the computing fun is long gone because things went to what 
you pointed out about the APIs.  It sort of reminds me of the CP/M 
stagnation days.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/14/2015 5:48:32 PM
On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind of
>> standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>> But it can be done.
>>
> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with
> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to standardize
> HTML than for Linux.
>
I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs 
"The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/14/2015 5:50:22 PM
On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> Anonymous wrote:
>
>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>
>>> Too funny.
>>
>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>> out the window.
>>
>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>
> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?

You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the 
engineering now.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/14/2015 5:52:11 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:

> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>> But it can be done.
>>>
>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with
>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>
> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.

The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside, depending on 
what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea 
of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.

But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.  
Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a commercial 
products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within the 
Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some 
commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of 
view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and the 
right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux 
community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying 
it.

Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 5:56:20 PM
On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>> Anonymous wrote:
>>
>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>
>>>> Too funny.
>>>
>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>> out the window.
>>>
>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>
>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
> 
> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
> engineering now.
> 
> 

heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
of mush' in the glory of leftism, radical environmentalism, and reverse
racism [it's all "whitey's" fault], and failing to educate in areas that
would actually STIMULATE creativity (music, art), and swapping in the
poetry of Maya Angeloo instead of the poetry of Robert Louis Stevensen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Louis_Stevenson#Politics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Child%27s_Garden_of_Verses

And don't forget teaching kids NOT to think for themselves.  It's harder
to *control* a free thinking person.  better start *EARLY* to PREVENT it...

And the "new new math" that's part of 'common core'...  Ew.

http://truthinamericaneducation.com/common-core-state-standards/common-core-math-problems/


These are *ALL* recipes for *FAIL* for the next generation.

and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.

nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!
Guess what HE ended up being like?  yeah.  take the best and brightest,
dumb them down, make the nail that sticks out GET THE HAMMER, train
people NOT to excel, NOT to do better, and NOT give rewards if they ever
*DO* do better.

Recipe for FAIL.

No WONDER Windows 10 looks the way it does!  it was designed by the
children of THIS kind of education system!


0
Big
9/14/2015 7:05:08 PM
On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>> just to
>>>>>> irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.  Or not.  my
>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>
>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>
>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>
>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they just
>>>> arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and tell
>>>> everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they have
>>>> some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their [most likely
>>>> thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't
>>>> like you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in Jr.
>>>> High School or something.  Too bad, they just can't have their little
>>>> exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>
>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>
>>> I like you Bob!
>>>
>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>
>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy doesn't
>> attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>
> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are honest
> about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest about tech
> (though right now he is talking about OneNote and how great it is without,
> yet, saying what it does other software does not).
> 
> 

'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the truth
is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use multiple
operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.


0
Big
9/14/2015 7:10:20 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:

> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>> <.m@nsn.s>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled. 
>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>
>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>
>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they
>>>>> just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and
>>>>> tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they
>>>>> have some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their
>>>>> [most likely thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be
>>>>> because *THEY* don't like you, and so they want you to go away,
>>>>> because they're still in Jr. High School or something.  Too bad,
>>>>> they just can't have their little exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>>
>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are: 
>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>
>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>
>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>
>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>
>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are
>> honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest
>> about tech (though right now he is talking about OneNote and how great
>> it is without, yet, saying what it does other software does not).
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the truth
> is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use multiple
> operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.

I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically all I 
do on one machine with pretty much any OS.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 7:12:40 PM
Penis K�hlmann the Mainz Computer Guy vomited:
>
>Dr. John Grubor wrote:
>
>> "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> wrote in
>> news:mt4ipj$dsh$1@news.albasani.net:
>>
>>> You criminal swine, you *will* pay for your outrageous claims, someday!
>>
>> Clogwog the Douche loser has less of a life than Snot Michael Glasser.
>
>Difficult at best. Snit Glasser has *no* life at all
>
Talking to yourselves once again, you double-dyed fool Dummkopf Peter 
K�hlmann.
"Dr. John Grubor", one of the many K�hlmann nyms.
--
Peter Kohlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> AKA
Msg-ID Larry
Paul-Wilhelm Hermsen <skitch_gruner@yahoo.com>
Jochen Lippert <usenet08@jlippert.net>
Peter Köhlmann
K�hlmannYW5u?=
Peter K�hlmann
Stefan Karstensen
Dr. John Grubor
Tori Wassermann
Walter Bubniak
Hans Lister
peter.traphagen
and many more............
Most people don't realize that Peter Kohlmann has posted many times as 
Flatfish (note the capital F)
<These brown nosing losers died in my killfile, I guess.> 

0
Cola
9/14/2015 7:44:02 PM
On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>
>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be controlled.
>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they
>>>>>> just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way" and
>>>>>> tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP, like they
>>>>>> have some kind of policing authority or it adds weight to their
>>>>>> [most likely thin] position or argument.  Alternately it may be
>>>>>> because *THEY* don't like you, and so they want you to go away,
>>>>>> because they're still in Jr. High School or something.  Too bad,
>>>>>> they just can't have their little exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>
>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>
>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>>
>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are
>>> honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest
>>> about tech (though right now he is talking about OneNote and how great
>>> it is without, yet, saying what it does other software does not).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the truth
>> is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use multiple
>> operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>
> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically all I
> do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>
"Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...

0
mike
9/14/2015 8:01:04 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:

> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be
>>>>>>>>> controlled.
>>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with
>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they
>>>>>>> just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way"
>>>>>>> and tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP,
>>>>>>> like they have some kind of policing authority or it adds weight
>>>>>>> to their [most likely thin] position or argument.  Alternately it
>>>>>>> may be because *THEY* don't like you, and so they want you to go
>>>>>>> away, because they're still in Jr. High School or something.  Too
>>>>>>> bad, they just can't have their little exclusive country club or
>>>>>>> clique.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>>>
>>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are
>>>> honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest
>>>> about tech (though right now he is talking about OneNote and how
>>>> great it is without, yet, saying what it does other software does
>>>> not).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use
>>> multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>
>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically all
>> I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>
> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...

iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep me 
with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 8:04:07 PM
On 9/14/15, 1:04 PM, in article d5onhnFjnioU1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use
>>>> multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>> 
>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically all
>>> I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>> 
>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
> 
> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep me
> with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.

You can get iTunes for Windows.

For me it is more about any one app but the whole of the environment. The
fact things tie together so well allows for very streamlined workflows. Apps
are also important, though, and since I do a lot of screencasting for me the
lack of anything to compete with ScreenFlow on other OSs is one thing that
keeps it my main OS. Also Keynote and others where there is nothing
comparable on other systems.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 8:14:36 PM
On 9/14/15, 12:10 PM, in article
MZedncIgh5wuhmrInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

....
>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:  ignorant,
>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>> 
>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>> 
>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>> 
>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy doesn't
>>> attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>> 
>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are honest
>> about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest about tech
>> (though right now he is talking about OneNote and how great it is without,
>> yet, saying what it does other software does not).
>> 
>> 
> 
> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the truth
> is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use multiple
> operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
> 
> 
On this I agree with you. I use multiple OSs and advocate for what I call
"informed computing". When you learn a second language you learn your own
better - in much the same way, as you learn a second OS / environment you
learn the pros and cons of your preferred one better, and just learn how to
do tasks better. I also have a big focus on efficiency and workflows, though
from a consumer view (I am not a programmer and do not do a lot with the
command line, at least not any more - used to do more many years ago).


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 8:25:30 PM
On 9/14/15, 12:05 PM, in article
MZedncMgh5zhh2rInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>> Anonymous wrote:
>>> 
>>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Too funny.
>>>> 
>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>>> out the window.
>>>> 
>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>> 
>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
>> 
>> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
>> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
>> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
>> engineering now.
>> 
>> 
> 
> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
> of mush' in the glory of leftism,

One of the challenges here for conservatives is they tend to have a bias
against reality. We can see this with Fox "news".

* It is the least reliable news network and has a very right
  wing / Republican slant.
* It is the most trusted news source... mostly to Republicans.
* Those that view it tend to seek information from a smaller number
  of sources and tend to be less well informed.

When your world view is based on the idea that it should be accepted over
evidence and data, and education is focused on teaching evidence and data
and critical thinking skills, you are going to find that your world view is
not represented well.

This does not imply a problem with the education system (which is not to say
the education system does not have MANY problems... it does).

> radical environmentalism,

What do you mean by this? Acceptance of science?

> and reverse racism [it's all "whitey's" fault],

Can you show anyone actually pushing this idea? There may be some fringe
sources but it is not a mainstream idea.

> and failing to educate in areas that would actually STIMULATE creativity
> (music, art), 

I agree here.

> and swapping in the poetry of Maya Angeloo instead of the poetry
> of Robert Louis Stevensen.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Louis_Stevenson#Politics
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Child%27s_Garden_of_Verses
> 
> And don't forget teaching kids NOT to think for themselves.

In what way? 

> It's harder to *control* a free thinking person.  better start *EARLY* to
> PREVENT it...

Many conservatives are against education because they fear people learning.
They work to defund it and to push anti-science, right wing agendas into it.

> And the "new new math" that's part of 'common core'...  Ew.
> 
> http://truthinamericaneducation.com/common-core-state-standards/common-core-ma
> th-problems/

Show where those are tied to the common core. The site does not.
 
> These are *ALL* recipes for *FAIL* for the next generation.

But so is your misunderstanding.
 
> and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
> creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
> with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
> force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.

I agree there is too much of this. Far too much.
 
> nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!

He was not quite the great inventor many people think, but still, your
overall point is one I do not disagree with.

> Guess what HE ended up being like?  yeah.  take the best and brightest,
> dumb them down, make the nail that sticks out GET THE HAMMER, train
> people NOT to excel, NOT to do better, and NOT give rewards if they ever
> *DO* do better.
> 
> Recipe for FAIL.
> 
> No WONDER Windows 10 looks the way it does!  it was designed by the
> children of THIS kind of education system!
> 
> 



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 9:05:30 PM
On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>
>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be
>>>>>>>>>> controlled.
>>>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with
>>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally arrogant
>>>>>>>> ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they
>>>>>>>> just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way"
>>>>>>>> and tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP,
>>>>>>>> like they have some kind of policing authority or it adds weight
>>>>>>>> to their [most likely thin] position or argument.  Alternately it
>>>>>>>> may be because *THEY* don't like you, and so they want you to go
>>>>>>>> away, because they're still in Jr. High School or something.  Too
>>>>>>>> bad, they just can't have their little exclusive country club or
>>>>>>>> clique.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will do
>>>>>>>> whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>>>>
>>>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and are
>>>>> honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty honest
>>>>> about tech (though right now he is talking about OneNote and how
>>>>> great it is without, yet, saying what it does other software does
>>>>> not).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use
>>>> multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>>
>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically all
>>> I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>>
>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
>
> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep me
> with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.
>
>
>
That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me
on planet earth."
It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
0
mike
9/14/2015 9:19:26 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:19:26 -0700, mike wrote:

> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the
>>>>>>>>>>> OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be
>>>>>>>>>>> controlled.
>>>>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with
>>>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally
>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they
>>>>>>>>> just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way"
>>>>>>>>> and tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP,
>>>>>>>>> like they have some kind of policing authority or it adds weight
>>>>>>>>> to their [most likely thin] position or argument.  Alternately
>>>>>>>>> it may be because *THEY* don't like you, and so they want you to
>>>>>>>>> go away, because they're still in Jr. High School or something. 
>>>>>>>>> Too bad, they just can't have their little exclusive country
>>>>>>>>> club or clique.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will
>>>>>>>>> do whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and
>>>>>> are honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty
>>>>>> honest about tech (though right now he is talking about OneNote and
>>>>>> how great it is without, yet, saying what it does other software
>>>>>> does not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use
>>>>> multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>>>
>>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically
>>>> all I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>>>
>>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
>>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
>>
>> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep me
>> with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.
>>
>>
>>
> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
> planet earth."
> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.

Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving apps 
for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.  




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 9:26:26 PM
On 9/14/15, 2:19 PM, in article mt7dho$rqj$1@dont-email.me, "mike"
<ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

>>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use
>>>>> multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>>> 
>>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically all
>>>> I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>>> 
>>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
>>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
>> 
>> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep me
>> with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.
>> 
> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me
> on planet earth."
> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.

For me it is screencasting applications. There are simple screen recorders
for Linux, but nothing that allows me to do things I often do with the
competition (I can go into more detail if you care).

Even without that, the poor UI of every single distro is a problem in terms
of productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction. Those things matter to me.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 9:29:47 PM
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:19:26 -0700, mike wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the
>>>>>>>>>>>> OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be
>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with
>>>>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally
>>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree, they
>>>>>>>>>> just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the only way"
>>>>>>>>>> and tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT THE FUCK UP,
>>>>>>>>>> like they have some kind of policing authority or it adds weight
>>>>>>>>>> to their [most likely thin] position or argument.  Alternately
>>>>>>>>>> it may be because *THEY* don't like you, and so they want you to
>>>>>>>>>> go away, because they're still in Jr. High School or something.
>>>>>>>>>> Too bad, they just can't have their little exclusive country
>>>>>>>>>> club or clique.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will
>>>>>>>>>> do whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they are:
>>>>>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control freaks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>>>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and
>>>>>>> are honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is pretty
>>>>>>> honest about tech (though right now he is talking about OneNote and
>>>>>>> how great it is without, yet, saying what it does other software
>>>>>>> does not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do* use
>>>>>> multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically
>>>>> all I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>>>>
>>>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
>>>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
>>>
>>> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep me
>>> with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
>> planet earth."
>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
> 
> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving apps
> for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
> 

I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering

My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have tried 
Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing results. Except 
with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the errors than 
with inputting them from scratch

Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard. Setting the 
parameters right yields useable notes normally

Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.

Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high 
qualitiy note sheets


0
Peter
9/14/2015 10:35:03 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 00:35:03 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:19:26 -0700, mike wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OPPOSITE,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with
>>>>>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
>>>>>>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally
>>>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control
>>>>>>>>>>> freaks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree,
>>>>>>>>>>> they just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the
>>>>>>>>>>> only way" and tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT
>>>>>>>>>>> THE FUCK UP, like they have some kind of policing authority or
>>>>>>>>>>> it adds weight to their [most likely thin] position or
>>>>>>>>>>> argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't like
>>>>>>>>>>> you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in
>>>>>>>>>>> Jr. High School or something. Too bad, they just can't have
>>>>>>>>>>> their little exclusive country club or clique.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will
>>>>>>>>>>> do whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they
>>>>>>>>>>> are:
>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant,
>>>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control
>>>>>>>>>>> freaks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like you Bob!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
>>>>>>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>>>>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and
>>>>>>>> are honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is
>>>>>>>> pretty honest about tech (though right now he is talking about
>>>>>>>> OneNote and how great it is without, yet, saying what it does
>>>>>>>> other software does not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
>>>>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do*
>>>>>>> use multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically
>>>>>> all I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
>>>>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
>>>>
>>>> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep
>>>> me with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
>>> planet earth."
>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>> 
>> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving
>> apps for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
>> 
>> 
> I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering
> 
I've used the only 2 that I think still exist.  PhotoScore and SmartScore.  
I switched to just using PhotoScore because I found it much better at 
recognition.

> My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have
> tried Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing results.
> Except with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the
> errors than with inputting them from scratch
> 
Yep, that is a big issue for sure.  I mostly work with and play from, lead 
sheets and for them, PhotoScore is excellent.  Basically my use is to scan 
in from lead sheet books with their impossible to read font sizes and then 
convert them over for editing in Sibelius with odds and ends that help me 
in my playing.

Good enough for that, but not good enough for more complex music.

> Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard. Setting
> the parameters right yields useable notes normally
>
I never cared for that method though I know many that do that and think it 
is the best way.  Most of the professional engravers I know just manually 
enter with the software.
 
> Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.
>
It is much better now, but it is extremely crude and nowhere near the 
level of Sibelius or Finale.
 
> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
> qualitiy note sheets


I saw and played around with that a bit.  Yes it does produce some very 
nice output, but it is complex as hell.  You really have to want to use 
LilyPond to want to work with that.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 10:44:52 PM
Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote: 

> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>> 
>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support
>> at this time, but may in the future...]
>> 
>> Don't count out IBM.
>> 
> 
> Haha haaaa...
> 
> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs
> now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit
> - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the
> rug under their feet. However they were always destined for
> mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
> 

OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor 
marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2 Warp 
v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!


-- 
Optimist: Someone who doesn't know all the facts yet.
0
Diesel
9/14/2015 10:51:23 PM
"A.M" <.m@nsn.s> news:mt6r6s$5h0$1@dont-email.me Mon, 14 Sep 2015
16:06:37 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote: 

> On 2015-09-14 3:26 AM, Jenny Telia wrote:
>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support
>>> at this time, but may in the future...]
>>>
>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>
>> 
>> Haha haaaa...
>> 
>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2?
> 
> A promising operating system ruined by IBM's general incompetence.

A kickass operating system ruined by IBM's marketing incompetence. It 
was superior to Windows. More stable, more secure. More reliable. 
Awesome to develop software under, too. It was a great OS!
 
>> The Chinese make their PCs now
>> ('Lenovo')
> 
> And they are shit. My wife wanted to buy a Lenovo when she got her
> laptop in 2012 and even though I told her that they are no longer
> made by IBM, she was convinced that they were just as good. Three
> years later, the hard disk is dying and the hinges holding the lcd
> to the rest of the computer broke on their own. The LCD just hangs
> off of the computer like Ahlstrom's limp dick. It's so worthless
> that I convinced my wife that it was a perfect candidate for
> Linux. 

They aren't the same since IBM off loaded them. :( They're junk now, 
imo. As you said.
 


-- 
Optimist: Someone who doesn't know all the facts yet.
0
Diesel
9/14/2015 10:51:24 PM
On 9/14/15, 3:35 PM, in article mt7hv6$gcd$1@dont-email.me, "Peter K�hlmann"
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

>>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
>>> planet earth."
>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>> 
>> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving apps
>> for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
>> 
> 
> I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering
> 
> My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have tried
> Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing results. Except
> with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the errors than
> with inputting them from scratch
> 
> Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard. Setting the
> parameters right yields useable notes normally
> 
> Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.
> 
> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
> qualitiy note sheets

Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been encouraging you
to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of your comments.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 11:03:56 PM
Snit wrote:

> On 9/14/15, 3:35 PM, in article mt7hv6$gcd$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>>>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
>>>> planet earth."
>>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>>>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>>>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>> 
>>> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving
>>> apps for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
>>> 
>> 
>> I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering
>> 
>> My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have
>> tried Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing results.
>> Except with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the
>> errors than with inputting them from scratch
>> 
>> Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard. Setting
>> the parameters right yields useable notes normally
>> 
>> Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.
>> 
>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
>> qualitiy note sheets
> 
> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been encouraging you
> to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of your comments.
> 

It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about

It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this area than 
OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive and/or very 
expensive in comparison

It is also an area where OSX should shine. Yet it does not
0
Peter
9/14/2015 11:16:49 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 01:16:49 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/15, 3:35 PM, in article mt7hv6$gcd$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
>>>>> planet earth."
>>>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>>>>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>>>>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>>> 
>>>> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving
>>>> apps for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering
>>> 
>>> My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have
>>> tried Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing
>>> results.
>>> Except with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the
>>> errors than with inputting them from scratch
>>> 
>>> Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard.
>>> Setting the parameters right yields useable notes normally
>>> 
>>> Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.
>>> 
>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
>>> qualitiy note sheets
>> 
>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been encouraging
>> you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of your comments.
>> 
>> 
> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
> 
> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this area
> than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive and/or
> very expensive in comparison
> 
Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and 
Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software is on 
WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux may have a 
numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor software and 
only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.

> It is also an area where OSX should shine. Yet it does not


Yet it does no matter how much you wave your hands or stamp your little 
feet!


-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 11:25:48 PM
In article <d5p0v3FlgnmU3@mid.individual.net>
Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 00:35:03 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
> > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:19:26 -0700, mike wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
> >>>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
> >>>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You MS shills
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> STFU FOAD.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> WOW - an STFU troll!  Are you the same one I saw over on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu ???
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I know that when someone tells *ME* to "STFU" I do the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OPPOSITE,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just to irritate them and PROVE that *I* can *NOT* be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Or not.  my choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to have minded the "FOAD" that went along with
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> it's the "trying to silence me" via the 'STFU' that's the most
> >>>>>>>>>>> irritating.  the FOAD just kinda rolls off.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> people who try to "silence the opposition" are generally
> >>>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control
> >>>>>>>>>>> freaks.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So the 'STFU' identifies "the type".
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And instead of having a discussion or agreeing to disagree,
> >>>>>>>>>>> they just arrogantly insist that what THEY believe is "the
> >>>>>>>>>>> only way" and tell everyone who disagrees with them to SHUT
> >>>>>>>>>>> THE FUCK UP, like they have some kind of policing authority or
> >>>>>>>>>>> it adds weight to their [most likely thin] position or
> >>>>>>>>>>> argument.  Alternately it may be because *THEY* don't like
> >>>>>>>>>>> you, and so they want you to go away, because they're still in
> >>>>>>>>>>> Jr. High School or something. Too bad, they just can't have
> >>>>>>>>>>> their little exclusive country club or clique.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So yeah, I generally *HATE* who they are to the core, and will
> >>>>>>>>>>> do whatever I can to *EXPOSE* the STFU trolls for what they
> >>>>>>>>>>> are:
> >>>>>>>>>>> ignorant,
> >>>>>>>>>>> arrogant ass-hats, and potentially, bullies and control
> >>>>>>>>>>> freaks.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I like you Bob!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I see you're a BSD user, but you'd make a welcome addition to
> >>>>>>>>>> comp.os.linux.advocacy.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Why? So you can tell him that he's Snit? comp.os.linux.advocacy
> >>>>>>>>> doesn't attract anything but Windows users and liars.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> LOL! Pretty much true... but also people who use multiple OSs and
> >>>>>>>> are honest about it. Lloyd, as much as he lies about me, is
> >>>>>>>> pretty honest about tech (though right now he is talking about
> >>>>>>>> OneNote and how great it is without, yet, saying what it does
> >>>>>>>> other software does not).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 'windows users and liars'.  Well, I haven't lied on-line [when the
> >>>>>>> truth is SO much more fun, there's no need to lie!], but I *do*
> >>>>>>> use multiple operating systems.  call it "diversity".  heh.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I do it because I like fiddling with tech.  I could do practically
> >>>>>> all I do on one machine with pretty much any OS.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> "Practically" invalidates the whole concept.
> >>>>> Holler when you can do ABSOLUTELY all...
> >>>>
> >>>> iTunes, Sibelius and PhotoScore are the only applications that keep
> >>>> me with Windows and/or OSX.  Nothing like them for any other OS.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
> >>> planet earth."
> >>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
> >>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
> >>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
> >>
> >> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving
> >> apps for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
> >>
> >>
> > I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering
> >
> I've used the only 2 that I think still exist.  PhotoScore and SmartScore.
> I switched to just using PhotoScore because I found it much better at
> recognition.
>
> > My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have
> > tried Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing results.
> > Except with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the
> > errors than with inputting them from scratch
> >
> Yep, that is a big issue for sure.  I mostly work with and play from, lead
> sheets and for them, PhotoScore is excellent.  Basically my use is to scan
> in from lead sheet books with their impossible to read font sizes and then
> convert them over for editing in Sibelius with odds and ends that help me
> in my playing.
>
> Good enough for that, but not good enough for more complex music.
>
> > Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard. Setting
> > the parameters right yields useable notes normally
> >
> I never cared for that method though I know many that do that and think it
> is the best way.  Most of the professional engravers I know just manually
> enter with the software.
>
> > Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.
> >
> It is much better now, but it is extremely crude and nowhere near the
> level of Sibelius or Finale.
>
> > Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
> > qualitiy note sheets
>
>
> I saw and played around with that a bit.  Yes it does produce some very
> nice output, but it is complex as hell.  You really have to want to use
> LilyPond to want to work with that.
>
>
>
> --
> Lloyd

0
Kum
9/14/2015 11:26:21 PM
On 2015-09-14 1:42 PM, Shadow wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:06:37 -0400, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-09-14 3:26 AM, Jenny Telia wrote:
>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at this
>>>> time, but may in the future...]
>>>>
>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>
>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2?
>>
>> A promising operating system ruined by IBM's general incompetence.
> 
> 	It still is a very good operating system, if it's not
> connected to the internet.
>>
>>> The Chinese make their PCs now
>>> ('Lenovo')
>>
>> And they are shit. My wife wanted to buy a Lenovo when she got her
>> laptop in 2012 and even though I told her that they are no longer made
>> by IBM, she was convinced that they were just as good. Three years
>> later, the hard disk is dying and the hinges holding the lcd to the rest
>> of the computer broke on their own. The LCD just hangs off of the
>> computer like Ahlstrom's limp dick. It's so worthless that I convinced
>> my wife that it was a perfect candidate for Linux.
> 	
> 	I know this will come as a shock, but all laptops come
> equipped with hard drives made by  Asians. So even if you buy 100%
> American, when you open it up, you will see it is not.

Really? Lenovo, which is owned by Chinky Winkies uses Asian parts? I'M
FLABBERGASTED!

> 	As to the limp dick thing, I'm sure your wife has a share of
> the blame. Don't get depressed, it will only make matters worse.

You don't have to defend Ahlstrom. He'll wipe your dick no matter what
you do. It makes him happy.

< snip >

-- 
A.M
0
A
9/14/2015 11:33:02 PM
On 9/14/15, 4:16 PM, in article mt7kdg$p5b$1@dont-email.me, "Peter K�hlmann"
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/15, 3:35 PM, in article mt7hv6$gcd$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> That's a lot like saying, "Oxygen is the only gas that keeps me on
>>>>> planet earth."
>>>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>>>>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>>>>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>>> 
>>>> Yep, that is an issue for sure.  While there are some music engraving
>>>> apps for Linux I"m not aware of any music OCR software for it.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I am not aware of any music OCR software worth considering
>>> 
>>> My wife uses Noteediting software a lot, my daughter also. Both have
>>> tried Note OCR software under windows, with very disappointing results.
>>> Except with very simple notes, they had more work to do to correct the
>>> errors than with inputting them from scratch
>>> 
>>> Much more interesting is inputting the notes via MIDI-keyboard. Setting
>>> the parameters right yields useable notes normally
>>> 
>>> Very interesting software (multi-OS) is MuseScore.
>>> 
>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
>>> qualitiy note sheets
>> 
>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been encouraging you
>> to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of your comments.
> 
> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about

Correct! See... this is another good lesson for you: do not pretend to know
things you do not. Notice I did not jump in and say what was good or bad in
this area, as you did with sceeencasting when it was clear you were
completely ignorant about it. Learn from my example!

> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.

Could be. I have no idea.

> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this area than
> OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive and/or very
> expensive in comparison

Again, could be: but if I wanted to know I would ask someone who knew
something about computers (esp. Macs, and music). That is not you (you have
demonstrated your ignorance on basics such as how to even install a printer
/ AIO device). Remember, I showed these videos:

    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PrintFirstTime.mp4>
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/FirstScan.mov>

Then you said: <http://goo.gl/600BHt>:
    -----
    Scanning [on OS X] is not supported *at* *all* without jumping
    through several hoops. This includes hunting down 3 different
    software packages (libusb, sane-backend and sane) *and* installing
    them. Out of the box no scanning is supported at all. This is in
    stark contrast to linux where scanning is supported right from the
    start after setting up the printer

    The same is true about *all* OfficeJet Pro printers under OSX.
    -----    
So do not be offended if I do not take your word her as being of any real
value.

> It is also an area where OSX should shine. Yet it does not

Maybe. Maybe not. Wonder if someone who knows about Macs and music would be
interested in jumping in.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 11:33:16 PM
On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote: 
> 
>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support
>>> at this time, but may in the future...]
>>>
>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>
>>
>> Haha haaaa...
>>
>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs
>> now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit
>> - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the
>> rug under their feet. However they were always destined for
>> mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>
> 
> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor 
> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2 Warp 
> v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!

Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
than Windows or Linux.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/14/2015 11:42:35 PM
"Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> wrote in news:mt7824$f27$1@news.albasani.net:

> "Dr. John Grubor", one of the many K�hlmann nyms.

You are a fool. I am an American and reside in Pennsylvania.
0
Dr
9/14/2015 11:44:24 PM
On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
>>>> qualitiy note sheets
>>> 
>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been encouraging
>>> you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of your comments.
>>> 
>>> 
>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>> 
>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this area
>> than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive and/or
>> very expensive in comparison
>> 
> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and
> Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software is on
> WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux may have a
> numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor software and
> only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.

Do you know of any good titles on OS X?

>> It is also an area where OSX should shine. Yet it does not
> 
> 
> Yet it does no matter how much you wave your hands or stamp your little
> feet!



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/14/2015 11:51:03 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very high
>>>>> qualitiy note sheets
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of
>>>> your comments.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>> 
>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>> 
>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and
>> Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software is
>> on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux may
>> have a numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor
>> software and only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.
> 
> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
> 
Haven't you been reading??

Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving 
applications.
PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or at 
least I think that is true.

All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 11:53:39 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:

> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me Mon,
>> 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>
>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>
>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs now
>>> ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit - an
>>> 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the rug under
>>> their feet. However they were always destined for mediocrity. May they
>>> RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>
>>>
>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2 Warp
>> v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
> 
> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
> than Windows or Linux.

While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 11:55:07 PM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:53:39 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net,
>> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very
>>>>>> high qualitiy note sheets
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of
>>>>> your comments.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>>> 
>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>> 
>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and
>>> Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software
>>> is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux
>>> may have a numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor
>>> software and only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.
>> 
>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>> 
> Haven't you been reading??
> 
> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
> applications.
> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or at
> least I think that is true.
> 
> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.

And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html

Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/14/2015 11:57:26 PM
On 9/14/15, 4:53 PM, in article d5p503Fmug5U1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>> 
>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and
>>> Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software is
>>> on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux may
>>> have a numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor
>>> software and only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.
>> 
>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>> 
> Haven't you been reading??
> 
> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
> applications.
> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or at
> least I think that is true.
> 
> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.

Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows only.
You likely said otherwise and I missed it.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 12:03:46 AM
In article <mt61ir$17b$1@dont-email.me>
Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> 
wrote:
>
> Anonymous wrote:
>
> > In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
> > "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
> > <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
> >>
> >> > I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
> >> > this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
> >> > so that might further motivate them to join forces and
> >> > standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
> >> > version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
> >> > more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
> >> > hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
> >> > the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
> >>
> >> Too funny.
> >
> > Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
> > out the window.
> >
> > These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
> > jobs and then send the work to India.
>
> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?

I was smart enough to pocket $326K with paid travel working on 
every continent last year.  What did you make sweetypie?

0
Anonymous
9/15/2015 12:11:51 AM
Shadow wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:06:37 -0400, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> wrote:
>
>>And they are shit. My wife wanted to buy a Lenovo when she got her
>>laptop in 2012 and even though I told her that they are no longer made
>>by IBM, she was convinced that they were just as good. Three years
>>later, the hard disk is dying and the hinges holding the lcd to the rest
>>of the computer broke on their own. The LCD just hangs off of the
>>computer like Ahlstrom's limp dick. It's so worthless that I convinced
>>my wife that it was a perfect candidate for Linux.
> 	
> 	I know this will come as a shock, but all laptops come
> equipped with hard drives made by  Asians.

As I understand it, the vast majority of laptops, including the brand-names,
are made in Taiwan.

> So even if you buy 100%
> American, when you open it up, you will see it is not.

-- 
Q:	What's the difference between Bell Labs and the Boy Scouts of America?
A:	The Boy Scouts have adult supervision.
0
Chris
9/15/2015 12:22:20 AM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:03:46 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 9/14/15, 4:53 PM, in article d5p503Fmug5U1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth
>>>>> mentioning.
>>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>>> 
>>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX
>>>> and Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving
>>>> software is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at
>>>> all.  Linux may have a numbers advantage here only if you count some
>>>> really poor software and only one that is up to snuff for music
>>>> engraving.
>>> 
>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>> 
>> Haven't you been reading??
>> 
>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>> applications.
>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or
>> at least I think that is true.
>> 
>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
> 
> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows
> only.
> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.

It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either 
Sibelius or Finale that the split of professional level users between OS's 
is fairly even.
The music OCR applications in general are not loved as they have pretty 
severe limitations.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 12:22:25 AM
On 9/14/15, 5:22 PM, in article d5p6m1Fn8ueU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>> 
>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>> 
>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>>> applications. PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications
>>> left, or at least I think that is true.
>>> 
>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>> 
>> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows only.
>> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.
>> 
> It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either Sibelius
> or Finale that the split of professional level users between OS's is fairly
> even. The music OCR applications in general are not loved as they have pretty
> severe limitations.

But still, I bet, more capable than anything on Linux. Maybe Peter with his
vast knowledge of Linux software will step in to note some Linux titles
which compete well.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 12:34:44 AM
On 09/14/15 14:05, Snit so wittily quipped:
> On 9/14/15, 12:05 PM, in article
> MZedncMgh5zhh2rInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
> 
>> On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>>> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>>> Anonymous wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>>>> out the window.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>>>
>>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
>>>
>>> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
>>> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
>>> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
>>> engineering now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
>> of mush' in the glory of leftism,
> 
> One of the challenges here for conservatives is they tend to have a bias
> against reality. We can see this with Fox "news".

seriously?  *sigh*.

What's wrong with Fox?  It really *is* 'balanced', you know.  They even
let Juan Williams say whatever he wants (and other libs as well).
Point/counter-point.  NOT one-sided.

Triangle-head (Maddow) and Dough-boy (Matthews) epitomize why MSNBC is a
waste of bandwidth.  Ew.  Just 'ew'.  One-sided propoganda at its best.
 At its worst?  Ew.


<snip the other stuff, can't stomach it - pink liquid please, k-thx>


>> and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
>> creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
>> with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
>> force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.
> 
> I agree there is too much of this. Far too much.

exactly!  trying to change the brightest kids into "average".  making
mediocrity "the new normal".

>> nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!
> 
> He was not quite the great inventor many people think, but still, your
> overall point is one I do not disagree with.

ok.

0
Big
9/15/2015 12:37:44 AM
On 09/14/15 17:11, Anonymous so wittily quipped:
> In article <mt61ir$17b$1@dont-email.me>
> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Anonymous wrote:
>>
>>> In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>
>>>> Too funny.
>>>
>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>> out the window.
>>>
>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>
>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
> 
> I was smart enough to pocket $326K with paid travel working on 
> every continent last year.  What did you make sweetypie?
> 

careful, the IRS is monitoring

0
Big
9/15/2015 12:41:02 AM
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:34:44 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 9/14/15, 5:22 PM, in article d5p6m1Fn8ueU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>> 
>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>> 
>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>>> engraving applications. PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music
>>>> OCR applications left, or at least I think that is true.
>>>> 
>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>>> 
>>> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows
>>> only.
>>> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.
>>> 
>> It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either
>> Sibelius or Finale that the split of professional level users between
>> OS's is fairly even. The music OCR applications in general are not
>> loved as they have pretty severe limitations.
> 
> But still, I bet, more capable than anything on Linux. Maybe Peter with
> his vast knowledge of Linux software will step in to note some Linux
> titles which compete well.

You would be wrong.  Lilypond is very well respected but it isn't for the 
faint hearted.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 12:47:00 AM
On 9/14/15, 5:37 PM, in article
O8OdndfoRIjt9WrInZ2dnUU7-QmdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

....
>>> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
>>> of mush' in the glory of leftism,
>> 
>> One of the challenges here for conservatives is they tend to have a bias
>> against reality. We can see this with Fox "news".
> 
> seriously?  *sigh*.

Yes.

> What's wrong with Fox?

Other than that it is repeatedly found to be the least reliable source of
news? Is that not problem enough for you?

How about the fact their listeners are repeatedly found to be the least well
informed... and to get their information from the fewest sources. Does that
not concern you at all?

How about how they are the MOST trusted, even though they are the least
reliable and have the least well informed viewers.

That last one is the kicker: the conservative source is the least reliable,
has the least well informed users, AND is the most trusted.

A big blow to the conservative world-view.

MSNBC, on the other hand, is the second least reliable but the LEAST
trusted. Trying to push a liberal bias does not work well: liberals tend to
want more balanced and accurate information.

....
>>> and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
>>> creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
>>> with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
>>> force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.
>> 
>> I agree there is too much of this. Far too much.
> 
> exactly!  trying to change the brightest kids into "average".  making
> mediocrity "the new normal".

Unfortunately teachers are placed in an impossible situation: being required
to teach more and more in fewer and fewer hours... and not getting paid what
they would if they were merely babysitting. It is absurd.
 
>>> nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!
>> 
>> He was not quite the great inventor many people think, but still, your
>> overall point is one I do not disagree with.
> 
> ok.
> 



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 1:07:25 AM
On 9/14/15, 5:47 PM, in article d5p844Fnk85U1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:34:44 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/15, 5:22 PM, in article d5p6m1Fn8ueU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
>> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>>>> engraving applications. PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music
>>>>> OCR applications left, or at least I think that is true.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>>>> 
>>>> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows
>>>> only.
>>>> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.
>>>> 
>>> It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either
>>> Sibelius or Finale that the split of professional level users between
>>> OS's is fairly even. The music OCR applications in general are not
>>> loved as they have pretty severe limitations.
>> 
>> But still, I bet, more capable than anything on Linux. Maybe Peter with
>> his vast knowledge of Linux software will step in to note some Linux
>> titles which compete well.
> 
> You would be wrong.  Lilypond is very well respected but it isn't for the
> faint hearted.
> 
> 
Fair enough.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 1:07:43 AM
In article <O8OdndfoRIjt9WrInZ2dnUU7-QmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>
> On 09/14/15 14:05, Snit so wittily quipped:
> > On 9/14/15, 12:05 PM, in article
> > MZedncMgh5zhh2rInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
> > <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
> >
> >> On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
> >>> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> >>>> Anonymous wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
> >>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
> >>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
> >>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
> >>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
> >>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
> >>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
> >>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
> >>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
> >>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Too funny.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
> >>>>> out the window.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
> >>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
> >>>>
> >>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
> >>>
> >>> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
> >>> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
> >>> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
> >>> engineering now.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
> >> of mush' in the glory of leftism,
> >
> > One of the challenges here for conservatives is they tend to have a bias
> > against reality. We can see this with Fox "news".
>
> seriously?  *sigh*.
>
> What's wrong with Fox?  It really *is* 'balanced', you know.

OD on their Kool-Aid noted.

0
Kum
9/15/2015 1:44:59 AM
On 09/14/15 17:44, Dr. John Grubor wrote:
> "Cola Zealot"<Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com>  wrote in news:mt7824$f27$1@news.albasani.net:
>
>> "Dr. John Grubor", one of the many K�hlmann nyms.
>
> You are a fool. I am an American and reside in Pennsylvania.

Is that you, TMax?

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 3:11:40 AM
On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>
>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with
>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>
>> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>
> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside, depending on
> what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea
> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>
> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a commercial
> products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within the
> Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some
> commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of
> view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and the
> right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux
> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
> it.
>
> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>
>
>
>
Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or 
just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like 
Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.

I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives 
incentives to try harder.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 3:15:22 AM
On 09/14/15 13:05, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>> Anonymous wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Too funny.
>>>>
>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>>> out the window.
>>>>
>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>>
>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
>>
>> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
>> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
>> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
>> engineering now.
>>
>>
>
> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
> of mush' in the glory of leftism, radical environmentalism, and reverse
> racism [it's all "whitey's" fault], and failing to educate in areas that
> would actually STIMULATE creativity (music, art), and swapping in the
> poetry of Maya Angeloo instead of the poetry of Robert Louis Stevensen.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Louis_Stevenson#Politics
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Child%27s_Garden_of_Verses
>
> And don't forget teaching kids NOT to think for themselves.  It's harder
> to *control* a free thinking person.  better start *EARLY* to PREVENT it...
>
> And the "new new math" that's part of 'common core'...  Ew.
>
> http://truthinamericaneducation.com/common-core-state-standards/common-core-math-problems/
>
>
> These are *ALL* recipes for *FAIL* for the next generation.
>
> and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
> creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
> with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
> force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.
>
> nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!
> Guess what HE ended up being like?  yeah.  take the best and brightest,
> dumb them down, make the nail that sticks out GET THE HAMMER, train
> people NOT to excel, NOT to do better, and NOT give rewards if they ever
> *DO* do better.
>
> Recipe for FAIL.
>
> No WONDER Windows 10 looks the way it does!  it was designed by the
> children of THIS kind of education system!
>
>
I thought it was designed in India.  It has the cultures characteristics 
showing a bit.

But I agree with you on the education system.  A pure mess.
Ask any teacher today why they don't teach how to get rich.  They have 
no idea, yet it is supposed to be an education system.  Guess you have 
to send the kid to Harvard to learn the ins and outs of shady dealings 
for business.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 3:18:13 AM
On 9/14/2015 8:15 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
> On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>>
>>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with
>>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>>
>>> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
>>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>>
>> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside, depending on
>> what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea
>> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>>
>> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
>> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a commercial
>> products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within the
>> Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some
>> commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of
>> view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and the
>> right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux
>> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
>> it.
>>
>> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like
> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.

Not clear that's true.  Many linux users brag about how they bought 
expensive
hardware that was linux compatible and berate those of us who just want to
use what we already have.
Linux users get what they want from linux, or they wouldn't be using it.
They don't care what you want.  It works for them, "FOAD windows whiner!"
Making linux easier to use and promoting compatible software is just not
interesting to them.  For them, it's not broke.
They'd lose their elitist status if they fixed it so you could use it.
>
> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
> incentives to try harder.
>
Would be interesting to see the statistics on how many programmers
writing free linux code have shifted to Android in hopes of making a few
bux for their efforts via playstore.
>

0
mike
9/15/2015 3:26:34 AM
On 09/14/15 20:15, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
> On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>>
>>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with
>>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>>
>>> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
>>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>>
>> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside, depending on
>> what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea
>> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>>
>> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
>> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a commercial
>> products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within the
>> Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some
>> commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of
>> view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and the
>> right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux
>> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
>> it.
>>
>> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like
> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.

heh, I don't recall that one (the Kissinger remark) - I should look it
up, use it myself.  Goes along with Ayn Rand and "moochers and looters".

> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
> incentives to try harder.

works for me!

yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
example.  It helps the entire industry.

this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
all of the things that Windows does now.


0
Big
9/15/2015 3:40:24 AM
On 09/14/15 20:26, mike so wittily quipped:
> On 9/14/2015 8:15 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>> On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy
>>>>> with
>>>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>>>
>>>> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
>>>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>>>
>>> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside,
>>> depending on
>>> what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea
>>> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>>>
>>> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
>>> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a
>>> commercial
>>> products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within
>>> the
>>> Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some
>>> commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of
>>> view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and
>>> the
>>> right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux
>>> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
>> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like
>> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.
> 
> Not clear that's true.  Many linux users brag about how they bought
> expensive
> hardware that was linux compatible and berate those of us who just want to
> use what we already have.
> Linux users get what they want from linux, or they wouldn't be using it.
> They don't care what you want.  It works for them, "FOAD windows whiner!"
> Making linux easier to use and promoting compatible software is just not
> interesting to them.  For them, it's not broke.
> They'd lose their elitist status if they fixed it so you could use it.

heh, there's THOSE guys, too.

So "bad Linux users" include:

a) the socialists
b) the anarchists
c) the elitist snobs

and

d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
Linux does very very very well.

>>
>> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
>> incentives to try harder.
>>
> Would be interesting to see the statistics on how many programmers
> writing free linux code have shifted to Android in hopes of making a few
> bux for their efforts via playstore.

probably a LOT. But Android code is typically Java, with 'droid APIs,
not "Linux" per se.



0
Big
9/15/2015 3:42:14 AM
On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
> So "bad Linux users" include:
> 
> a) the socialists
> b) the anarchists
> c) the elitist snobs
> 
> and
> 
> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
> Linux does very very very well.

er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)

too bad I can't edit

0
Big
9/15/2015 3:43:01 AM
On 09/14/15 18:07, Snit so wittily quipped:
> On 9/14/15, 5:37 PM, in article
> O8OdndfoRIjt9WrInZ2dnUU7-QmdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
> 
> ...
>>>> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
>>>> of mush' in the glory of leftism,
>>>
>>> One of the challenges here for conservatives is they tend to have a bias
>>> against reality. We can see this with Fox "news".
>>
>> seriously?  *sigh*.
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> What's wrong with Fox?
> 
> Other than that it is repeatedly found to be the least reliable source of
> news? Is that not problem enough for you?

evidence, or heresay.

> How about the fact their listeners are repeatedly found to be the least well
> informed... and to get their information from the fewest sources. Does that
> not concern you at all?

evidence, or heresay.

> How about how they are the MOST trusted, even though they are the least
> reliable and have the least well informed viewers.

evidence, or heresay.

> That last one is the kicker: the conservative source is the least reliable,
> has the least well informed users, AND is the most trusted.
> 
> A big blow to the conservative world-view.

evidence, or heresay.

> MSNBC, on the other hand, is the second least reliable but the LEAST
> trusted. Trying to push a liberal bias does not work well: liberals tend to
> want more balanced and accurate information.

mostly it's just biased opinions from Triangle-Head, Dough-boy, and
others.  And that show about prisons.  I'd like to remove it from the
list of available channels.  I did that when I didn't need to use a
cable box, but the cable company recently changed over to "all digital"
and now I can't delete it from the list.  But I *CAN* hit the 'up' or
'down' button _REALLY_ _FAST_ and skip past it.

>> exactly!  trying to change the brightest kids into "average".  making
>> mediocrity "the new normal".
> 
> Unfortunately teachers are placed in an impossible situation: being required
> to teach more and more in fewer and fewer hours... and not getting paid what
> they would if they were merely babysitting. It is absurd.

well, the curriculum needs to stop including "liberal indoctrination"
and just get back to the 3 'R's like it USED to be.  I went to school in
the 1960's.  I saw the beginnings of all of this.  "New Math" for one.
Pretty sad.  Fortunately I learned to read using PHONICS and didn't have
to do "look/say" because I learned when I was 4.  But "they" wanted to
hold me back in KINDERGARTEN for another year because, as a
super-smart-genius-cannot-measure-my-IQ-because-it-was-pegged-high-off-scale
kid that read MEDICAL BOOKS for fun [I shit you not], I didn't have
ANYTHING in common with other kindergarteners, and so "they" wanted to
DRUG ME and HOLD ME BACK for another year because of "improper social
development".  That's how liberals do things.  The nail that sticks
out... GETS THE FUCKING HAMMER!

Fortunately my mother, family doctor, and others, put a STOP to THAT
SHIT.  Then they put me in 2nd grade for reading.  That was at least a
step in the right direction...


yeah, pretty fucking funny when I look back on things - they gave me
this IQ test, where some teacher showed me Rorschach inkblots.  I did
the usual stuff, and the BAT one definitely looked like a BAT to me.  I
like bats.  And the one that looked like chromosomes dividing?  I showed
off, typical 6 year old smart-kid, said it was "cellular mitosis",
teacher looked at me like "What the F...?" and I explained, naturally:
"See, those are like the chromosomes dividing".  Then she left the room
for a while.  I thought I was in trouble.  Then some man came in, did 3D
puzzles with blocks and timed me.  He often got a "o... k..." look on
his face.  I wish I could go back and film it.  It would make a funny movie.


0
Big
9/15/2015 3:50:41 AM
On 09/14/15 20:18, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
> On 09/14/15 13:05, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>>> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>>> Anonymous wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>>>> out the window.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>>>
>>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
>>>
>>> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
>>> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
>>> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
>>> engineering now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
>> of mush' in the glory of leftism, radical environmentalism, and reverse
>> racism [it's all "whitey's" fault], and failing to educate in areas that
>> would actually STIMULATE creativity (music, art), and swapping in the
>> poetry of Maya Angeloo instead of the poetry of Robert Louis Stevensen.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Louis_Stevenson#Politics
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Child%27s_Garden_of_Verses
>>
>> And don't forget teaching kids NOT to think for themselves.  It's harder
>> to *control* a free thinking person.  better start *EARLY* to PREVENT
>> it...
>>
>> And the "new new math" that's part of 'common core'...  Ew.
>>
>> http://truthinamericaneducation.com/common-core-state-standards/common-core-math-problems/
>>
>>
>>
>> These are *ALL* recipes for *FAIL* for the next generation.
>>
>> and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
>> creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
>> with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
>> force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.
>>
>> nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!
>> Guess what HE ended up being like?  yeah.  take the best and brightest,
>> dumb them down, make the nail that sticks out GET THE HAMMER, train
>> people NOT to excel, NOT to do better, and NOT give rewards if they ever
>> *DO* do better.
>>
>> Recipe for FAIL.
>>
>> No WONDER Windows 10 looks the way it does!  it was designed by the
>> children of THIS kind of education system!
>>
>>
> I thought it was designed in India.  It has the cultures characteristics
> showing a bit.
> 
> But I agree with you on the education system.  A pure mess.
> Ask any teacher today why they don't teach how to get rich.  They have
> no idea, yet it is supposed to be an education system.  Guess you have
> to send the kid to Harvard to learn the ins and outs of shady dealings
> for business.
> 
> 

oh, come on, now, not ALL businesses are "shady".  But a lot of them
appear to be.  They give money to politicians to buy legislation in
their favor.

Then there are the CORE businesses, the smaller ones, who are like me, I
think... [yeah, /me owns a corporation, not earning enough money with it
either, but I stick with it because I don't wanna be a wage slave]


0
Big
9/15/2015 3:52:17 AM
On 09/14/15 17:47, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:34:44 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/15, 5:22 PM, in article d5p6m1Fn8ueU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
>> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>>>
>>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>>>> engraving applications. PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music
>>>>> OCR applications left, or at least I think that is true.
>>>>>
>>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows
>>>> only.
>>>> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.
>>>>
>>> It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either
>>> Sibelius or Finale that the split of professional level users between
>>> OS's is fairly even. The music OCR applications in general are not
>>> loved as they have pretty severe limitations.
>>
>> But still, I bet, more capable than anything on Linux. Maybe Peter with
>> his vast knowledge of Linux software will step in to note some Linux
>> titles which compete well.
> 
> You would be wrong.  Lilypond is very well respected but it isn't for the 
> faint hearted.
> 

I've bookmarked the 'Lilypond' stuff for later use.  For over a decade
I've been using this application called "Noteworthy Composer" along with
Cakewalk.  On XP.  Because I don't want to upgrade *that* box to 7 only
to find out that things broke.

related, there are 'MIDI over Ethernet' thingies that I also use.  With
a small amount of effort, I think it's possible to use fluidsynth [with
a customized sound font] via an 'Ethernet MIDI' daemon under Linux or
BSD, basically listening for the UDP packets and sending commands to
fluidsynth, and generating the wavetable MIDI.  Haven't written the glue
yet, though.  Still using an older XP box with 'MIDI over Ethernet'
running over there as well, and my old SB PCI 512 [under XP] to generate
the tones.

[I did try fluidsynth on an RPi, but it's not fast enough to use as a
generic wave generator, bummer...]

0
Big
9/15/2015 4:00:04 AM
On 9/14/15, 8:50 PM, in article
iZ6dnQ5aqME1CGrInZ2dnUU7-cednZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> On 09/14/15 18:07, Snit so wittily quipped:
>> On 9/14/15, 5:37 PM, in article
>> O8OdndfoRIjt9WrInZ2dnUU7-QmdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
>> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>> 
>> ...
>>>>> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
>>>>> of mush' in the glory of leftism,
>>>> 
>>>> One of the challenges here for conservatives is they tend to have a bias
>>>> against reality. We can see this with Fox "news".
>>> 
>>> seriously?  *sigh*.
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>>> What's wrong with Fox?
>> 
>> Other than that it is repeatedly found to be the least reliable source of
>> news? Is that not problem enough for you?
> 
> evidence, or heresay.

Glad you asked. Here, just SOME evidence... much of it (though not all) from
peer-reviewed journals. Sorry... know it is overwhelming, so I have
summarized it first. But all backed up by the links I provide, below:

* Watching Fox is correlated with being less informed than watching no
  news at all or even with watching Comedy Central

* PBS & NPR viewers / listeners were the most informed

* In a study looking at multiple sources Fox news viewers were 3x as
  likely to hold a set of three misconceptions than any other source

* An internal memo from Fox was shown that demonstrated they have a
  policy of lying about science to push a right-wing agenda

* Fox news viewers were more likely to shun learning from other
  sources (they tend to want an echo-chamber)

* Fox viewers underestimated the death toll of US soldiers in Iraq more
  than viewers of other sources

* Fox news has a consistent pro-Republican bias

* Fox news is shown to repeatedly lie about global warming / climate
  change (93% of their reporting on this was dishonest or misleading
  in one report)

* Not just Republicans who watch Fox are more likely to be misinformed,
  but also Democrats

* Watching Fox news is correlated with being ignorant of climate science

* Of stories examined by Poltifact, Fox new has the lowest rating of
  accuracy

* Even though Fox is the least reliable, and its viewers the worst
  informed, conservatives tend to trust Fox over any other source!

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://illinois-online.org/krassa/ps101/Readings/Kull%20Ramsay%20Lewis%20200
3.pdf

-----
| Standing out in the analysis are Fox and NPR/PBS, but for opposite
| reasons. Fox was the news source whose viewers had the most
| misperceptions. NPR/PBS are notable because their viewers and
| listeners consistently held fewer misperceptions than respondents
| who obtained their information from other news sources.
| ...
| Fox is the most of consistently significant predictor of
| misperceptions.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.comm.ohio-state.edu/kgarrett/MediaMosqueRumors.pdf
-----
| In this study, the results are very clear: the more people use Fox
| News, the more rumors they have heard and the more they believe. We
| interpret this to mean that exposure to the news network promotes
| rumor contact and belief.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/
-----
| The conclusion: Sunday morning news shows do the most to help people
| learn about current events, while some outlets, especially Fox News,
| lead people to be even less informed than those who say they don�t
| watch any news at all. ... the results show us that there is
| something about watching Fox News that leads people to do worse on
| these questions than those who don�t watch any news at all.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/
Over 60% of the checked claims are rated "Mostly False", "False", or "Pants
on Fire". No other news station comes close to that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/174826/survey-nprs-listeners-best-info
rmed-fox-news-viewers-worst-informed/
-----
| The largest effect is that of Fox News: all else being equal,
| someone who watched only Fox News would be expected to answer just
| > 1.04 domestic questions correctly � a figure which is significantly
| worse than if they had reported watching no media at all. On the
| other hand, if they listened only to NPR, they would be expected to
| answer 1.51 questions correctly; viewers of Sunday morning talk
| shows fare similarly well. And people watching only The Daily Show
| with Jon Stewart could answer about 1.42 questions correctly.
-----

Watching Fox not only was found to be correlated with being less informed
than watching no news at all (it is a misinformation channel), it was
correlated with being less informed than watching a comedy channel. The
"liberal" NPR was coorelated with being most informed. Liberals tend to be
better informed and better educated.

Really, when evidence suggests watching no news at all, or Comedy Central,
leads to being better informed than a "news" station it might not be wise to
refer to them as news station at all.

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf
-----
| To answer these and other questions we developed a more systematic
| set of questions that were included in a series of three polls,
| conducted over June through September, with a total of 3,334
| respondents. This was combined with the findings from four other
| polls conducted January through May for a total data set of 8634
| respondents.
....
| Those who receive most of their news from Fox News are more likely
| than average to have misperceptions. Those who receive most of their
| news from NPR or PBS are less likely to have misperceptions. These
| variations cannot simply be explained as a result of differences in
| the demographic characteristics of each audience, because these
| variations can also be found when comparing the demographic
| subgroups of each audience.
....
| Fox News watchers were most likely to hold misperceptions� and were
| more than twice as likely than the next nearest network to hold all
| three misperceptions. In the audience for NPR/PBS, however, there
| was an overwhelming majority who did not have any of the three
| misperceptions, and hardly any had all three.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://gawker.com/5713739/fox-news-memo-dont-mention-science-without-mention
ing-anti-science
-----
Fox News Memo: Don't Mention Science Without Mentioning Anti-Science

| Subject: Given the controversy over the veracity of climate change
| data...
| 
| ...we should refrain from asserting that the planet has warmed (or
| cooled) in any given period without IMMEDIATELY pointing out that
| such theories are based upon data that critics have called into
| question. It is not our place as journalists to assert such notions
| as facts, especially as this debate intensifies.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://gabe.palomares.com.au/uni/56.full%20-%20Copy.pdf
-----
| Although the success of Fox News is something to marvel at from a
| commercial perspective, this analysis does illustrate cause for
| concern. Specifically, evidence indicates that the Fox News
| audience prefers news that shares their own point of view on
| politics and issues, while CNN and network news watchers do not. The
| findings go a step further to illustrate that Fox News viewers have
| less familiarity with issues and events in the news that may be
| critical of their point of view. The Fox audience paid less
| attention to the September 11 congressional hearings and reports of
| higher gas prices than those who watch CNN and network news.
| Finally, of the people who were unaware of how many U.S. soldiers
| had died in Iraq (almost half the sample), those who frequently
| watch Fox News were more likely than nonviewers to underestimate the
| death toll.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://archive.battlecreekenquirer.com/assets/pdf/A51963891026.pdf
-----
| In its relatively short life span, Fox News has staked out a
| distinctive reputation for delivering a proconservative perspective
| on issues and events. A systematic comparison of Fox News� coverage
| of national issues with the coverage provided by other new media and
| two ��old�� media (AP and UPI) demonstrated that Fox News�
| reputation was deserved�the outlet�s news coverage showed a
| consistently pro-Republican slant (Groeling & Baum, 2007). Despite
| the fact that real-world conditions generated significantly more
| ��bad news�� stories about Republican candidates contesting the 2006
| congressional elections (due mainly to the series of
| lobbying-related scandals involving Republican incumbents), Fox News
| was the only news outlet in which negative stories about Republicans
| did not outnumber balanced or positive stories.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/global_war
ming/Is-News-Corp-Failing-Science.pdf
-----
| Over a recent six-month period, 93 percent of Fox News Channel�s
| representations of climate science were misleading (37 out of 40
| instances).
| ...
| UCS�s examination finds that the misleading citations include broad
| dismissals of human-caused climate change, disparaging comments
| about individual scientists, rejections of climate science as a body
| of knowledge, and cherry picking of data. Fox News Channel citations
| also included several discussions in which misleading claims
| dominated accurate ones. Furthermore, much of this coverage
| denigrated climate science by either promoting distrust in
| scientists and scientific institutions or placing acceptance of
| climate change in an ideological, rather than fact-based, context.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/dec10/Misinformation_Dec10_rpt.pd
f
-----
| These effects increased incrementally with increasing levels of
| exposure and all were statistically significant. The effect was also
| not simply a function of partisan bias, as people who voted
| Democratic and watched Fox News were also more likely to have such
| misinformation than those who did not watch it--though by a lesser
| margin than those who voted Republican.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/files/Global-Warming-Fox-News.
pdf
-----
| As shown in Table 1, more exposure to Fox News was associated with
| more rejection of many mainstream scientists� claims about global
| warming, with less trust in scientists, and with more belief that
| ameliorating global warming would hurt the U.S. economy.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-the-least-trusted-tv-news-source-among-all-
americans/
-----
| The New Republic looked at the data and gleaned that Fox News, while
| the �most trusted,� also had the most deeply polarized fanbase,
| largely made up of �the Republican Party�s most conservative
| members.�
-----

So even though Fox is the least reliable, and its viewers the worst
informed, conservatives tend to trust Fox over any other source!

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://prq.sagepub.com/content/63/4/834
-----
| The content analysis demonstrates that Fox News�s coverage was more
| favorable to the Republican Party than it was to the Democratic
| Party, while CNN�s coverage was more impartial.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/10/study-media-sowed-doubt-in-cover
age-of-un-clima/196387
-----
| Doubters Dominated On Fox News, The Majority Of Whom Were
| Unqualified. Fox News tipped the balance toward those on the
| opposite side of the facts, as 69 percent of guests and 75 percent
| of mentions cast doubt on climate science. Seventy-three percent of
| doubters hosted by Fox News had no background in climate science.
-----
OK, this is from the liberal Media Matters, but Fox's response was to lie
about the consensus among scientists. If they cannot defend themselves
without lying it is hard to take them seriously. The findings of Media
Matters were largely supported elsewhere.

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://hij.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/10/13/1940161211425410.abstract
-----
| Evidence from a content analysis of climate change coverage on Fox
| News, CNN, and MSNBC during 2007 and 2008 demonstrates that Fox
| takes a more dismissive tone toward climate change than CNN and
| MSNBC. Fox also interviews a greater ratio of climate change
| doubters to believers.
| 
| That is, the views of Republicans are strongly linked with the news
| outlet they watch, regardless of how well that outlet aligns with
| their political predispositions. In contrast, Democrats don�t vary
| much in their beliefs as a function of cable news use. This
| asymmetry suggests that some Republicans, who as a group tend to be
| predisposed toward global warming skepticism, are less skeptical
| when exposed to information on the reality and urgency of climate
| change.
-----

---------------------------------------------------------------

>> How about the fact their listeners are repeatedly found to be the least well
>> informed... and to get their information from the fewest sources. Does that
>> not concern you at all?
> 
> evidence, or heresay.

Evidence. As shown.

>> How about how they are the MOST trusted, even though they are the least
>> reliable and have the least well informed viewers.
> 
> evidence, or heresay.

I do not show the "most trusted" part - but we can find that if you want!

>> That last one is the kicker: the conservative source is the least reliable,
>> has the least well informed users, AND is the most trusted.
>> 
>> A big blow to the conservative world-view.
> 
> evidence, or heresay.

Strong, well supported evidence - as you now know.

And in case you think I hand-picked those, by all means go to Google Scholar
and other reputable sources and find counter-examples. Would love to see
them!

>> MSNBC, on the other hand, is the second least reliable but the LEAST
>> trusted. Trying to push a liberal bias does not work well: liberals tend to
>> want more balanced and accurate information.
> 
> mostly it's just biased opinions from Triangle-Head, Dough-boy, and
> others.  And that show about prisons.  I'd like to remove it from the
> list of available channels.  I did that when I didn't need to use a
> cable box, but the cable company recently changed over to "all digital"
> and now I can't delete it from the list.  But I *CAN* hit the 'up' or
> 'down' button _REALLY_ _FAST_ and skip past it.

Yet you trust a source which is demonstrably even less reliable.

Why? 

And you PROVIDE a source which has got to be satire. I have added more
notes... jumped down some and read the email you got and how you faild to
understand a word of it:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/review-of-bobf-site.pdf>

>>> exactly!  trying to change the brightest kids into "average".  making
>>> mediocrity "the new normal".
>> 
>> Unfortunately teachers are placed in an impossible situation: being required
>> to teach more and more in fewer and fewer hours... and not getting paid what
>> they would if they were merely babysitting. It is absurd.
> 
> well, the curriculum needs to stop including "liberal indoctrination"

Such as? By all means point to, say, anything in the common core curriculum
you think fits this description. Point directly to the common core
curriculum, not what some partisan site says about it.

And remember: science is not "liberal", it is evidence. The fact
conservatives often work to avoid science just means anti-science is
conservative, but not the fault of liberals.

> and just get back to the 3 'R's like it USED to be.

Didn't you elsewhere talk about wanting the arts also taught - or was that
someone else? 

Anyway, teaching computers and science and history and more are also
important. 

> I went to school in
> the 1960's.  I saw the beginnings of all of this.  "New Math" for one.
> Pretty sad.  Fortunately I learned to read using PHONICS and didn't have
> to do "look/say" because I learned when I was 4.  But "they" wanted to
> hold me back in KINDERGARTEN for another year because, as a
> super-smart-genius-cannot-measure-my-IQ-because-it-was-pegged-high-off-scale
> kid that read MEDICAL BOOKS for fun [I shit you not], I didn't have
> ANYTHING in common with other kindergarteners, and so "they" wanted to
> DRUG ME and HOLD ME BACK for another year because of "improper social
> development".  That's how liberals do things.  The nail that sticks
> out... GETS THE FUCKING HAMMER!

Looking at your site, no offense, but the idea you have a super high IQ is
questionable at best. You cannot make a reasoned argument at all.

Not interested in whipping it out and comparing, but I know I was reading by
at least age 5... don't know how much before that.

> Fortunately my mother, family doctor, and others, put a STOP to THAT
> SHIT.  Then they put me in 2nd grade for reading.  That was at least a
> step in the right direction...
> 
> 
> yeah, pretty fucking funny when I look back on things - they gave me
> this IQ test, where some teacher showed me Rorschach inkblots.

The Rorschach test has nothing to do with IQ. Not a thing. It deals with
looking for personality disorders and the like.

> I did the usual stuff, and the BAT one definitely looked like a BAT to me.  I
> like bats.  And the one that looked like chromosomes dividing?  I showed off,
> typical 6 year old smart-kid, said it was "cellular mitosis", teacher looked
> at me like "What the F...?" and I explained, naturally: "See, those are like
> the chromosomes dividing".  Then she left the room for a while.  I thought I
> was in trouble.  Then some man came in, did 3D puzzles with blocks and timed
> me.  He often got a "o... k..." look on his face.  I wish I could go back and
> film it.  It would make a funny movie.

So what happened since then? Why can't you make a reasoned argument? I mean,
really: 

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/review-of-bobf-site.pdf>

You should be ashamed if you are serious.



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 4:51:59 AM
On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:

>
> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>
> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
> all of the things that Windows does now.
>
>
Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
Give poor joe average a chance to get started and start learning
before you pull the rug out from under him with another distro
or update to the current one that throws everything up in the air
just for fun.
We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
page.  And you have a chance of asking a question and getting a relevant
answer.
The gurus can still fork theirs up from the repository of infinite choice.
People would write scripts to convert the baseline to their own forked
version and it would be constructed from the exact same repository of
vetted/evaluated/compatible files.  No version issues or dependency hell.
There'd be so many forkers with nothing to do that we'd have
a flood of new/compatible/vetted software in the repository.

Once you decide to make a GUI-centric OS, you can do a LOT under the
hood with trivial changes to the GUI.  "Hey look, a new option,"
sounds a lot better than, "How the hell was I to know that there
was a new CLI option to do what I need?"

It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.

0
mike
9/15/2015 4:55:36 AM
On 9/14/15, 8:40 PM, in article
ku-dnQJLLbqiDmrInZ2dnUU7-dednZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

>> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
>> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like
>> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.
> 
> heh, I don't recall that one (the Kissinger remark) - I should look it
> up, use it myself.  Goes along with Ayn Rand and "moochers and looters".
> 
>> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
>> incentives to try harder.
> 
> works for me!
> 
> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
> example.  It helps the entire industry.
> 
> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
> all of the things that Windows does now.

I would also like to see the KDE and GNOME teams work together more on their
shared goals... and make it so developers can have software that works
seamlessly with either paradigm. By this I mean more than just running KDE
apps on GNOME based systems (and vice versa) but having UIs that are
(mostly) consistent from app to app. Well other than when developers have a
reason to make them not be - nothing forced.

Would also allow for developers to assume a standard set of tools they can
modify and tap into. Could make Linux allow for workflows and productivity
benefits that OS X and Windows could not achieve.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 6:15:04 AM
Anonymous wrote:

> In article <mt61ir$17b$1@dont-email.me>
> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
> wrote:
>>
>> Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> > In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>> > "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>> > <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>> >> > this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>> >> > so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>> >> > standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>> >> > version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>> >> > more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>> >> > hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>> >> > the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>> >>
>> >> Too funny.
>> >
>> > Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>> > out the window.
>> >
>> > These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>> > jobs and then send the work to India.
>>
>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
> 
> I was smart enough to pocket $326K with paid travel working on
> every continent last year.  What did you make sweetypie?

Oh, that obvious lie should impress me? It did. I had not expected such 
idiocy, even from you
0
Peter
9/15/2015 7:52:11 AM
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:53:39 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net,
>>> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very
>>>>>>> high qualitiy note sheets
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of
>>>>>> your comments.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
>>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>>> 
>>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and
>>>> Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software
>>>> is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux
>>>> may have a numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor
>>>> software and only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.
>>> 
>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>> 
>> Haven't you been reading??
>> 
>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>> applications.
>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or at
>> least I think that is true.
>> 
>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
> 
> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
> 
> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
> 

I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of the 
best music editors works on linux?
0
Peter
9/15/2015 8:00:48 AM
Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>> 
>> a) the socialists
>> b) the anarchists
>> c) the elitist snobs
>> 
>> and
>> 
>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>> Linux does very very very well.
>
> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>
> too bad I can't edit

But you're pretty good at making up stuff.

-- 
No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of
absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream.
Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness
within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more.
Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and
doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone
of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone.
		-- Shirley Jackson, "The Haunting of Hill House"
0
Chris
9/15/2015 10:14:00 AM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:00:48 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:53:39 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net,
>>>> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very
>>>>>>>> high qualitiy note sheets
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level
>>>>>>> of your comments.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth
>>>>>> mentioning.
>>>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX
>>>>> and Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving
>>>>> software is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at
>>>>> all.  Linux may have a numbers advantage here only if you count some
>>>>> really poor software and only one that is up to snuff for music
>>>>> engraving.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>> 
>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>> 
>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>> engraving applications.
>>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or
>>> at least I think that is true.
>>> 
>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>> 
>> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
>> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>> 
>> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
>> 
>> 
> I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of
> the best music editors works on linux?


No it doesn't.  


-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 12:12:43 PM
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:00:48 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> 
>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:53:39 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net,
>>>>> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very
>>>>>>>>> high qualitiy note sheets
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>>>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level
>>>>>>>> of your comments.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth
>>>>>>> mentioning.
>>>>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX
>>>>>> and Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving
>>>>>> software is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at
>>>>>> all.  Linux may have a numbers advantage here only if you count some
>>>>>> really poor software and only one that is up to snuff for music
>>>>>> engraving.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>> 
>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>> 
>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>>> engraving applications.
>>>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or
>>>> at least I think that is true.
>>>> 
>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>> 
>>> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
>>> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>>> 
>>> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of
>> the best music editors works on linux?
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> 

My wife has used both Sibelius and Finale on computers of friends who run 
these pograms (she is a musician and a teacher, as well as those friends).
She did not like them because both were way too complex for most tasks and 
have very steep learning curves. She felt that those programs are only OK 
for someone who does noteediting most of the time, whereas she makes music 
and teaches, noteediting is something she does not that often. 

My daughter runs "Capella" which is more than good enough for 99% of 
noteedit tasks
0
Peter
9/15/2015 12:27:39 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:27:39 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:00:48 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> 
>>> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:53:39 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net,
>>>>>> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very
>>>>>>>>>> high qualitiy note sheets
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>>>>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the
>>>>>>>>> level of your comments.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth
>>>>>>>> mentioning.
>>>>>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in
>>>>>>>> this area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are
>>>>>>>> primitive and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX
>>>>>>> and Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving
>>>>>>> software is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at
>>>>>>> all.  Linux may have a numbers advantage here only if you count
>>>>>>> some really poor software and only one that is up to snuff for
>>>>>>> music engraving.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>>>> engraving applications.
>>>>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left,
>>>>> or at least I think that is true.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>>> 
>>>> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
>>>> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>>>> 
>>>> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of
>>> the best music editors works on linux?
>> 
>> 
>> No it doesn't.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> My wife has used both Sibelius and Finale on computers of friends who
> run these pograms (she is a musician and a teacher, as well as those
> friends).
> She did not like them because both were way too complex for most tasks
> and have very steep learning curves. She felt that those programs are
> only OK for someone who does noteediting most of the time, whereas she
> makes music and teaches, noteediting is something she does not that
> often.
> 
Not a bad assessment.  Both of them do have a steep learning curve but are 
so good that the bulk of the pros in music engraving use one or both of 
them.  I use Sibelius because it allows me to do what I want to do, but if 
I don't use it for awhile it takes a bit to get back in the 'groove'.  So 
sometime back I made a little procedural note for doing what I do most of 
the time.  

That said, Lilypond even with some of the front-end stuff added isn't a 
simple program to use either.  It does produce excellent results though.

> My daughter runs "Capella" which is more than good enough for 99% of
> noteedit tasks

There are a slew of music engraving apps out there, some quite good for 
the occasional engraver.  Generally they aren't as fully featured as the 
big boys but can be more than good enough.  Depending on what you need 
from them of course.  I don't know if I'd agree with the "99%" though.

I play the organ but I don't read music very well so I work from lead 
sheets formatted in "EZ Play" format and add hints and such to the sheet 
music to aid in my playing.  Sibelius does that best I've found.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 12:35:23 PM
Peter K�hlmann wrote:

>My wife has used both Sibelius and Finale on computers of friends who run 
>these pograms (she is a musician and a teacher, as well as those friends).
>She did not like them because both were way too complex for most tasks and 
>have very steep learning curves. She felt that those programs are only OK 
>for someone who does noteediting most of the time, whereas she makes music 
>and teaches, noteediting is something she does not that often. 
>
>My daughter runs "Capella" which is more than good enough for 99% of 
>noteedit tasks

What?  There is no one "best tool" for everyone?  Even in this small
portion of the market, there is a need for multiple choices, for the
different needs and skill-sets of the users?

-- 
"too stupid to remember what he posted himself earlier this day. LOL -
what a fscking loser."  -  Ezekreep.  LOL - what a shameless fscking
liar.
0
chrisv
9/15/2015 12:42:18 PM
On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me Mon,
>>> 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>
>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs now
>>>> ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit - an
>>>> 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the rug under
>>>> their feet. However they were always destined for mediocrity. May they
>>>> RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>
>>>>
>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2 Warp
>>> v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>
>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
>> than Windows or Linux.
> 
> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(

I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
phenomenon. Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely
forgotten. Clearly, IBM was too incompetent to take the steam away from
Microsoft despite the fact that it was still the most important name in
computing at the time.

Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
-- 
A.M
0
A
9/15/2015 12:46:50 PM
On 2015-09-14 8:34 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 9/14/15, 5:22 PM, in article d5p6m1Fn8ueU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>>
>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>>
>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>>>> applications. PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications
>>>> left, or at least I think that is true.
>>>>
>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>>>
>>> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows only.
>>> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.
>>>
>> It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either Sibelius
>> or Finale that the split of professional level users between OS's is fairly
>> even. The music OCR applications in general are not loved as they have pretty
>> severe limitations.
> 
> But still, I bet, more capable than anything on Linux. Maybe Peter with his
> vast knowledge of Linux software will step in to note some Linux titles
> which compete well.

We await Peter the Kl�wn's wise words and recommendations.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/15/2015 12:48:06 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 07:42:18 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> 
>>My wife has used both Sibelius and Finale on computers of friends who
>>run these pograms (she is a musician and a teacher, as well as those
>>friends).
>>She did not like them because both were way too complex for most tasks
>>and have very steep learning curves. She felt that those programs are
>>only OK for someone who does noteediting most of the time, whereas she
>>makes music and teaches, noteediting is something she does not that
>>often.
>>
>>My daughter runs "Capella" which is more than good enough for 99% of
>>noteedit tasks
> 
> What?  There is no one "best tool" for everyone?  Even in this small
> portion of the market, there is a need for multiple choices, for the
> different needs and skill-sets of the users?

For the casual engraver the cost for Sibelius or Finale can be onerous as 
they are pro-level.  Finale has some lower level versions with some 
limitations to help meet that need.

I know you're trying to take a dig at those of us that would like to see 
some commercial success for Linux desktop, but as usual, you miss the 
point of that proposition.

An OS that wants to be commercially successful has to reach a broad 
audience, have a consistent marketing message to keep interest at a high 
enough level to keep the sales rolling in, and it needs to at least be 
consistent in its look and feel on a version basis.

In Linux desktop, the competing distros and UIs make for a confusing 
marketing message.  And that's why the commercial success for Linux 
desktop has been elusive.  It isn't that it is technically bad, it isn't.  
In fact, it is quite good.  And frankly, for most casual computer users 
most of the distros would be just fine.  But they will never know because 
of the failure of marketing guidance in just how to make a commercial 
success of a hobbyist/developer OS.

It doesn't help that most of the 'support' forums for the various distros 
read almost like here with the 'advocates' incessant desire to show their 
snobbery.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 12:50:32 PM
On 9/15/15, 1:00 AM, in article mt8j3v$bhb$7@dont-email.me, "Peter K�hlmann"
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>> 
>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>>> applications.
>>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or at
>>> least I think that is true.
>>> 
>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>> 
>> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
>> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>> 
>> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
>> 
> 
> I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of the
> best music editors works on linux?

It does not - but it does show you were incorrect when you claimed OS X had
no such programs. The program you claim to be one of the "best" works on OS
X.

Once again you make a fool of yourself.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 4:58:43 PM
On 9/15/15, 5:12 AM, in article d5qg9rF2akaU1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>> 
>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music
>>>> engraving applications.
>>>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or
>>>> at least I think that is true.
>>>> 
>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>> 
>>> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
>>> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>>> 
>>> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of
>> the best music editors works on linux?
> 
> 
> No it doesn't.  

Right: but it does show Peter was wrong to say there was no such software on
OS X. Good that he has learned better now.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 5:00:58 PM
On 9/15/15, 5:48 AM, in article mt93uk$8br$2@dont-email.me, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s>
wrote:

> On 2015-09-14 8:34 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 9/14/15, 5:22 PM, in article d5p6m1Fn8ueU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
>> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>>>>> applications. PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications
>>>>> left, or at least I think that is true.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>>>> 
>>>> Sorry - not being familiar with them I was thinking they were Windows only.
>>>> You likely said otherwise and I missed it.
>>>> 
>>> It is interesting to note that in forums that are dedicated to either
>>> Sibelius
>>> or Finale that the split of professional level users between OS's is fairly
>>> even. The music OCR applications in general are not loved as they have
>>> pretty
>>> severe limitations.
>> 
>> But still, I bet, more capable than anything on Linux. Maybe Peter with his
>> vast knowledge of Linux software will step in to note some Linux titles
>> which compete well.
> 
> We await Peter the Kl�wn's wise words and recommendations.
> 

He responded and demonstrated his claim that OS X has no such software was
incorrect.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 5:01:29 PM
On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me Mon,
>>>> 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>
>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs now
>>>>> ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit - an
>>>>> 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the rug under
>>>>> their feet. However they were always destined for mediocrity. May they
>>>>> RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2 Warp
>>>> v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>
>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
>>> than Windows or Linux.
>>
>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
> 
> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
> phenomenon.

I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so 'WindowCreate()'
for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).

> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.

yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the box.

> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.

not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.  It's
winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the 'embedded' war
(via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it appears to be
winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid slabs and whatnot).

but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.

Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...






0
Big
9/15/2015 5:26:20 PM
On 09/15/15 03:14, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>
>>> a) the socialists
>>> b) the anarchists
>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>
>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>
>> too bad I can't edit
> 
> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
> 

eh?  ~what~ exactly have I 'made up'?

you're free to disbelieve me if you want.  It doesn't bother me.  But I
do _NOT_ lie.  I'm not a 'Clinton'.


0
Big
9/15/2015 5:27:22 PM
On 09/14/15 21:55, mike so wittily quipped:
> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>>
>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>
>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>
>>
> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.

why is THAT a BAD thing?

> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.

Standardize to *WHAT* - what YOU like?  Then we get what Windows 8.x and
Windows 10 have done.  NO! THANK! YOU!!!

how about letting people get whatever THEY want? Just make sure the
choices are well presented and easy to make.

> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
> page.

why?  (present your case, thanks).

I suggest that people are pretty smart, and can figure things out as
long as the information is presented in a reasonable way.


> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.

'forking off on their own' - you miss the benefits of freedom and
creativity by saying things like that.

_I_ shall not allow _ANYONE_ to restrict _MY_ choice, or _MY_ freedom to
"fork off on my own".




0
Big
9/15/2015 5:30:24 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:

> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
>>>>> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs
>>>>>> now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit
>>>>>> - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the
>>>>>> rug under their feet. However they were always destined for
>>>>>> mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2
>>>>> Warp v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>
>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
>>>> than Windows or Linux.
>>>
>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>> 
>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>> phenomenon.
> 
> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
> that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
> naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so 'WindowCreate()'
> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).
> 
>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
> 
> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the
> box.
> 
>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
> 
> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.  It's
> winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the 'embedded' war
> (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it appears to be
> winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid slabs and
> whatnot).
> 
> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
> 
> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...

Desktop linux has no shot at taking over the desktop.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 5:34:43 PM
On 09/14/15 21:51, Snit so wittily quipped:
>> evidence, or heresay.
> 
> Glad you asked. Here, just SOME evidence... much of it (though not all) from
> peer-reviewed journals. Sorry... know it is overwhelming, so I have
> summarized it first. But all backed up by the links I provide, below:
> 
> * Watching Fox is correlated with being less informed than watching no
>   news at all or even with watching Comedy Central

that's not EVIDENCE, it's YOUR OPINION.

> * PBS & NPR viewers / listeners were the most informed

that's not EVIDENCE, it's YOUR OPINION.  Give me something *compelling*
please, something that would work in a COURT ROOM for a LAWSUIT or
CRIMINAL TRIAL.

> * In a study looking at multiple sources Fox news viewers were 3x as
>   likely to hold a set of three misconceptions than any other source

a) what were the alleged "misconceptions" - "don't believe in man-made
global warming" was ONE of them, right?  [yeah THAT isn't a rigged survey!]

b) who conducted the survey and what were the questions?

c) what post-analysis was done to make certain that the sample was
'representative' and not skewed in any way?

> * An internal memo from Fox was shown that demonstrated they have a
>   policy of lying about science to push a right-wing agenda

a) where is this alleged 'memo'
b) what did it say exactly?
c) is there sufficient proof that it is genuine?
d) 2 words, "Dan Rather".

> * Fox news viewers were more likely to shun learning from other
>   sources (they tend to want an echo-chamber)

a) who conducted this survey
b) what was the actual data
c) what questions were asked, was the sample representative, etc. etc. etc.

> * Fox viewers underestimated the death toll of US soldiers in Iraq more
>   than viewers of other sources

same about who conducted what survey on whom and was it truly a
representative sample

> * Fox news has a consistent pro-Republican bias

based on what information?

> * Fox news is shown to repeatedly lie about global warming / climate
>   change (93% of their reporting on this was dishonest or misleading
>   in one report)

this appears to be a subjective and biased statement, based upon a
pre-loaded bias towards ANYTHING that disproves man made global warming
being "a lie".

> * Not just Republicans who watch Fox are more likely to be misinformed,
>   but also Democrats

define 'mis-informed' in this context.  If you mean that NOT towing the
lamestream media narrative being "mis-informed", then perhaps your
statement is "correct".  Note placement of quote marks, because
definition of those terms in a way that favors your statement is the
only possible method by which it can even be REMOTELY relevant.

> * Watching Fox news is correlated with being ignorant of climate science

only when you define 'being ignorant of climate science' as NOT buying
into the left-wing-agenda-driven 'man made global warming' mantra.

> * Of stories examined by Poltifact, Fox new has the lowest rating of
>   accuracy

'Poltifact' is a click-bait site.  'Politifact' is probably the one you
want to mention.  (I saw a similar clickbait 'factcheck.com' vs
'factcheck.org', interestingly enough)

and you have a link to back up that statement, right?  And you have all
of the criteria that was allegedly used to conclude that, right?

[if NOT, I call *bullshit* on your claims!]

> * Even though Fox is the least reliable, and its viewers the worst
>   informed, conservatives tend to trust Fox over any other source!

"even though" those are your OPINIONS, you have no actual FACTS to base
them upon.


> http://illinois-online.org/krassa/ps101/Readings
> /Kull%20Ramsay%20Lewis%202003.pdf

heh, no need to even READ that to know what's in it - Steven Kull, one
of the authors, wrote a book "Feeling Betrayed:  The Roots of Muslim
Anger at America" - sounds like he's right inline with Obaka's policies
towards the middle east, basically apologizing for us being America.

I didn't find info on the other 2 authors (Evan Lewis, Clay Ramsay)
quickly enough, but I don't think I'd be wrong.  I was actually looking
for a 'george soros' or 'media matters' connection to it, found THAT
instead.

yeah, I don't need to read biased material like THAT.  if you don't like
the fact that I'm rejecting the material based on who was involved in
writing it, then that would be *IRONIC* wouldn't it?


0
Big
9/15/2015 6:01:37 PM
On 09/15/15 10:34, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
>>>>>> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>>>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs
>>>>>>> now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit
>>>>>>> - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the
>>>>>>> rug under their feet. However they were always destined for
>>>>>>> mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2
>>>>>> Warp v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
>>>>> than Windows or Linux.
>>>>
>>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>>>
>>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>>> phenomenon.
>>
>> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
>> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
>> that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
>> naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so 'WindowCreate()'
>> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).
>>
>>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
>>
>> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the
>> box.
>>
>>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
>>
>> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.  It's
>> winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the 'embedded' war
>> (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it appears to be
>> winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid slabs and
>> whatnot).
>>
>> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
>>
>> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...
> 
> Desktop linux has no shot at taking over the desktop.
> 

and you say that, because... ?


0
Big
9/15/2015 6:03:43 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 11:03:43 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:

> On 09/15/15 10:34, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> 
>>> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
>>>>>>> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support
>>>>>>>>> at this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their
>>>>>>>> PCs now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in
>>>>>>>> spirit - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped
>>>>>>>> pull the rug under their feet. However they were always destined
>>>>>>>> for mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2
>>>>>>> Warp v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT
>>>>>> rather than Windows or Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>>>>
>>>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>>>> phenomenon.
>>>
>>> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
>>> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
>>> that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
>>> naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so
>>> 'WindowCreate()'
>>> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).
>>>
>>>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
>>>
>>> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the
>>> box.
>>>
>>>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>>>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
>>>
>>> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate. 
>>> It's winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the
>>> 'embedded' war (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it
>>> appears to be winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid
>>> slabs and whatnot).
>>>
>>> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
>>>
>>> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...
>> 
>> Desktop linux has no shot at taking over the desktop.
>> 
>> 
> and you say that, because... ?

Simple history and trends.  If after 20+ years of getting no traction on 
the desktop, it isn't going to happen now.  And that's because you have 
two competing interests in the linux desktop arena.

Interest #1 is the overall community that loves the plethora of distros 
and UIs.  As a free and open OS with a strong hobbyist/developer 
community behind that thought it is good.  but...

Interest #2 is the vastly smaller part that would like to get some 
commercial success with Linux desktop.  For them the number of distros 
and UIs make having a consistent marketing message nearly impossible to 
do.

Doesn't help that when Canonical made a run at that with a mix of free 
and commercial software the 'community' howled loudly.  Couple that with 
probably the poorest batch of support forums out there and almost no 
actual formal support structure and you have the prescription for failure.

Note that I'm not at all saying that Linux on the desktop isn't 
technically a good OS, just that from a marketing/sales point of view, 
there is no way to make it a commercial success.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 6:11:10 PM
On 2015-09-15 1:26 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me Mon,
>>>>> 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs now
>>>>>> ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit - an
>>>>>> 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the rug under
>>>>>> their feet. However they were always destined for mediocrity. May they
>>>>>> RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2 Warp
>>>>> v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>
>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
>>>> than Windows or Linux.
>>>
>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>>
>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>> phenomenon.
> 
> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
> that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
> naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so 'WindowCreate()'
> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).

I wouldn't know. Programming never interested me so I wouldn't know how
good IBM's development tools were. What I DO know is that the
applications which were native to OS/2 were poor ports of what had
appeared in Windows 3.1 and people were better off simply using the
Windows versions.

>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
> 
> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the box.

And there was no way Microsoft was going to help make those applications
compatible with OS/2 either. IBM would have no choice but to rely on
older 16-bit applications if Windows users expected to migrate to OS/2
without feeling too much of a sacrifice.

>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
> 
> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.  It's
> winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the 'embedded' war
> (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it appears to be
> winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid slabs and whatnot).
> 
> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
> 
> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...

I meant on the desktop.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/15/2015 6:14:20 PM
On 2015-09-15 2:03 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/15/15 10:34, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
>>>>>>> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support at
>>>>>>>>> this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their PCs
>>>>>>>> now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in spirit
>>>>>>>> - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped pull the
>>>>>>>> rug under their feet. However they were always destined for
>>>>>>>> mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2
>>>>>>> Warp v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT rather
>>>>>> than Windows or Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>>>>
>>>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>>>> phenomenon.
>>>
>>> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
>>> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
>>> that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
>>> naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so 'WindowCreate()'
>>> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).
>>>
>>>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
>>>
>>> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the
>>> box.
>>>
>>>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>>>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
>>>
>>> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.  It's
>>> winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the 'embedded' war
>>> (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it appears to be
>>> winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid slabs and
>>> whatnot).
>>>
>>> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
>>>
>>> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...
>>
>> Desktop linux has no shot at taking over the desktop.
>>
> 
> and you say that, because... ?

Probably because as it is, Linux doesn't interest most users (1.5% of
the world's desktops use it) and even those who _are_ interested tend to
get alienated fairly quickly as a result of how broken the system is.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/15/2015 6:15:54 PM
On 9/15/15, 11:01 AM, in article
pNGdnR5LaY-EwGXInZ2dnUU7-eGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> On 09/14/15 21:51, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>> evidence, or heresay.
>> 
>> Glad you asked. Here, just SOME evidence... much of it (though not all) from
>> peer-reviewed journals. Sorry... know it is overwhelming, so I have
>> summarized it first. But all backed up by the links I provide, below:
>> 
>> * Watching Fox is correlated with being less informed than watching no
>>   news at all or even with watching Comedy Central
> 
> that's not EVIDENCE, it's YOUR OPINION.

<http://illinois-online.org/krassa/ps101/Readings/Kull%20Ramsay%20Lewis%2020
03.pdf>

<http://www.comm.ohio-state.edu/kgarrett/MediaMosqueRumors.pdf>

<http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/>

<http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/174826/survey-nprs-listeners-best-inf
ormed-fox-news-viewers-worst-informed/>

<http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf>

<http://gabe.palomares.com.au/uni/56.full%20-%20Copy.pdf>

<http://archive.battlecreekenquirer.com/assets/pdf/A51963891026.pdf>

<http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/global_wa
rming/Is-News-Corp-Failing-Science.pdf>

<http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/dec10/Misinformation_Dec10_rpt.p
df>

<http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/files/Global-Warming-Fox-News
..pdf>

<http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-the-least-trusted-tv-news-source-among-all
-americans/>

<http://prq.sagepub.com/content/63/4/834>

<http://hij.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/10/13/1940161211425410.abstract>

I show you all those (and more) and you claim it is merely my "opinion".

LOL!

Is there ANY level of science you actually accept?

And your own site... why not comment on the absolute nonsense it is?

I have. :)

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/review-of-bobf-site.pdf>

You claim to be a super genius... but your site does not rise to the level
of a Jr. High paper on the topic.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/15/2015 6:16:00 PM
On 09/15/15 05:42, chrisv so wittily quipped:
> Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> 
>> My wife has used both Sibelius and Finale on computers of friends who run 
>> these pograms (she is a musician and a teacher, as well as those friends).
>> She did not like them because both were way too complex for most tasks and 
>> have very steep learning curves. She felt that those programs are only OK 
>> for someone who does noteediting most of the time, whereas she makes music 
>> and teaches, noteediting is something she does not that often. 
>>
>> My daughter runs "Capella" which is more than good enough for 99% of 
>> noteedit tasks
> 
> What?  There is no one "best tool" for everyone?  Even in this small
> portion of the market, there is a need for multiple choices, for the
> different needs and skill-sets of the users?
> 

snark detector activated.  *beep*

yeah like no "one best OS" - Surprise, Microsoft!  [of course Windows 10
epitomizes 'the suck' part of Windows, so you'd have to go back to 7 for
it to be usable again]

sorta like ".Not" wasn't the "best tool" for programming, regardless of
Mono's brief entry into the world of open source [for a short time, it
was packaged with gnome, because of ONE application, 'tomboy', which I
think created *ENOUGH* outrage that it was removed a short time later,
along with all of those Mono dependencies].

and of course, "the METRO" isn't the "best tool" for programming,
either, because it *STINKS* *ON* *ICE* and makes Java look *GOOD*!

[it even makes HTML applications in Android look *GOOD*!]

and of course, no "one best UI" either - one UI to rule them all, one UI
to find them, one UI to bring them all, and in Windows 10 [with adware
and spyware], *BIND THEM*.  And with ugly 2D window decorations, the
FLAT look like Windows 1.01 - oh, don't believe me?  HERE!

http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/win101


heh, heh, heh!

(windows 10 - they left out the '.', should be 1.0 !)

0
Big
9/15/2015 6:17:31 PM
On 09/15/2015 02:11 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 11:03:43 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>
>> On 09/15/15 10:34, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
>>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>>>>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
>>>>>>>> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of support
>>>>>>>>>> at this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their
>>>>>>>>> PCs now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in
>>>>>>>>> spirit - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped
>>>>>>>>> pull the rug under their feet. However they were always destined
>>>>>>>>> for mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss poor
>>>>>>>> marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I ran Os/2
>>>>>>>> Warp v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT
>>>>>>> rather than Windows or Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>>>>>
>>>>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>>>>> phenomenon.
>>>>
>>>> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
>>>> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I believed
>>>> that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked the function
>>>> naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so
>>>> 'WindowCreate()'
>>>> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).
>>>>
>>>>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
>>>>
>>>> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of the
>>>> box.
>>>>
>>>>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>>>>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
>>>>
>>>> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.
>>>> It's winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the
>>>> 'embedded' war (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and it
>>>> appears to be winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and 'droid
>>>> slabs and whatnot).
>>>>
>>>> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...
>>>
>>> Desktop linux has no shot at taking over the desktop.
>>>
>>>
>> and you say that, because... ?
>
> Simple history and trends.  If after 20+ years of getting no traction on
> the desktop, it isn't going to happen now.  And that's because you have
> two competing interests in the linux desktop arena.
>
> Interest #1 is the overall community that loves the plethora of distros
> and UIs.  As a free and open OS with a strong hobbyist/developer
> community behind that thought it is good.  but...
>
> Interest #2 is the vastly smaller part that would like to get some
> commercial success with Linux desktop.  For them the number of distros
> and UIs make having a consistent marketing message nearly impossible to
> do.
>
> Doesn't help that when Canonical made a run at that with a mix of free
> and commercial software the 'community' howled loudly.  Couple that with
> probably the poorest batch of support forums out there and almost no
> actual formal support structure and you have the prescription for failure.

With some of the distros you can purchase support. There are forums for 
support and then you can Google.

> Note that I'm not at all saying that Linux on the desktop isn't
> technically a good OS, just that from a marketing/sales point of view,
> there is no way to make it a commercial success.
>
>
>

The distros that are marketed and some that aren't are successful.


-- 
Caver1
0
Caver1
9/15/2015 6:22:20 PM
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:22:20 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

> On 09/15/2015 02:11 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 11:03:43 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/15/15 10:34, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
>>>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/15/15 05:46, A.M so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> On 2015-09-14 7:55 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:42:35 -0400, A.M wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2015-09-14 6:51 PM, Diesel wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jenny Telia <jnytelia@gmail.com> news:mt5sna$heq$1@dont-email.me
>>>>>>>>> Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:26:01 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 13/09/2015 20:49, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [although I like BSD, it doesn't have the same kinds of
>>>>>>>>>>> support at this time, but may in the future...]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't count out IBM.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Haha haaaa...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are they the geniuses that gave us OS2? The Chinese make their
>>>>>>>>>> PCs now ('Lenovo') and IBM have become what they always were in
>>>>>>>>>> spirit - an 'empty suit' organisation.  Yes, Bill Gates helped
>>>>>>>>>> pull the rug under their feet. However they were always
>>>>>>>>>> destined for mediocrity. May they RIP ('Rot in Peace').
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OS2/Warp was a superior OS to Windows. It suffered from piss
>>>>>>>>> poor marketing by comparison and some shady shit MS pulled. I
>>>>>>>>> ran Os/2 Warp v4 myself.. it rocked on a 486!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, OS/2 still exists as eComStation. You're free to use IT
>>>>>>>> rather than Windows or Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I loved OS/2 that ship has sailed...   :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I spent my adolescence assuming that OS/2 was going to become a
>>>>>> phenomenon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I took a class in OS/2 presentation manager programming at a local
>>>>> community college, right before Windows 3.0 was released.  I
>>>>> believed that IBM's API was superior in a lot of ways, and I liked
>>>>> the function naming better (object/verb instead of verb/object - so
>>>>> 'WindowCreate()'
>>>>> for OS/2, 'CreateWindow()' for MS Windows).
>>>>>
>>>>>> Once Windows 95 came out though, OS/2 was completely forgotten.
>>>>>
>>>>> yep.  OS/2 couldn't run the new 32-bit windows applications out of
>>>>> the box.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, the only thing standing in the way of Microsoft's complete
>>>>>> dominance of the x86 and x64 platforms is Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> not entirely.  there ARE others, but Linux is the best candidate.
>>>>> It's winning the "phone war" (via Android), it's winning the
>>>>> 'embedded' war (via busybox and OpenWRT and things like that), and
>>>>> it appears to be winning for SLABS as well (e-readers and MeGo and
>>>>> 'droid slabs and whatnot).
>>>>>
>>>>> but yeah, Linux has the best shot at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still you can't count out things like 'GhostBSD'...
>>>>
>>>> Desktop linux has no shot at taking over the desktop.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> and you say that, because... ?
>>
>> Simple history and trends.  If after 20+ years of getting no traction
>> on the desktop, it isn't going to happen now.  And that's because you
>> have two competing interests in the linux desktop arena.
>>
>> Interest #1 is the overall community that loves the plethora of distros
>> and UIs.  As a free and open OS with a strong hobbyist/developer
>> community behind that thought it is good.  but...
>>
>> Interest #2 is the vastly smaller part that would like to get some
>> commercial success with Linux desktop.  For them the number of distros
>> and UIs make having a consistent marketing message nearly impossible to
>> do.
>>
>> Doesn't help that when Canonical made a run at that with a mix of free
>> and commercial software the 'community' howled loudly.  Couple that
>> with probably the poorest batch of support forums out there and almost
>> no actual formal support structure and you have the prescription for
>> failure.
> 
> With some of the distros you can purchase support. There are forums for
> support and then you can Google.
> 
Yes, that is true.  But paid support is not the norm with Linux desktop 
and generally not available except for a very few exceptions.  The forums 
are a mess and unfortunately not well moderated.  Too many really crappy 
replies to help requests makes many just stay away after a very few 
times.  And of course the "doesn't happen to me, must be you" answers are 
all too often given.

And Google support searches are worth exactly what you pay for them.

>> Note that I'm not at all saying that Linux on the desktop isn't
>> technically a good OS, just that from a marketing/sales point of view,
>> there is no way to make it a commercial success.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> The distros that are marketed and some that aren't are successful.

Given a roughly 1.5% desktop market share, none of them are exactly 
successful from a commercial viewpoint.  RedHat probably comes closest.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/15/2015 6:54:29 PM
On 9/15/2015 1:30 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:


> _I_ shall not allow _ANYONE_ to restrict _MY_ choice, or _MY_ freedom to
> "fork off on my own".


And the result in Linux bizarro world is around 1000 distros, with only 
15 or 20 being used in large numbers (for Linux values of large numbers).


Active: 254
Dormant: 61
Discontinued: 447
Waiting List: 256

www.distrowatch.com



MS is doomed.
0
DFS
9/15/2015 7:15:16 PM
On 09/15/15 02:00, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:53:39 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:51:03 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/14/15, 4:25 PM, in article d5p3brFmidnU2@mid.individual.net,
>>>> "Lloyd Parsons"<lloydp211@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Especially on linux use Frescobaldi + LilyPond. They yield very
>>>>>>>> high qualitiy note sheets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you, Peter. These are the types of posts I have been
>>>>>>> encouraging you to write. Good to see you work to raise the level of
>>>>>>> your comments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a area in software you don't have the foggiest about
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is also a area where OSX is lacking any software worth mentioning.
>>>>>> Linux and windows have a much better selection of software in this
>>>>>> area than OSX could ever hope for. The OSX offerings are primitive
>>>>>> and/or very expensive in comparison
>>>>>>
>>>>> Absolute and complete bullshit!  Music OCR software is on both OSX and
>>>>> Windows, not on Linux at all.  Professional music engraving software
>>>>> is on WIndows and OSX and neither of them are on Linux at all.  Linux
>>>>> may have a numbers advantage here only if you count some really poor
>>>>> software and only one that is up to snuff for music engraving.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know of any good titles on OS X?
>>>>
>>> Haven't you been reading??
>>>
>>> Sibelius, Finale - the two competing professional level music engraving
>>> applications.
>>> PhotoScore, SmartScore - the only two music OCR applications left, or at
>>> least I think that is true.
>>>
>>> All are Windows and OSX cross-platform applications.
>>
>> And for the impaired mental midget Petey:
>> http://www.lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>>
>> Note: Linux, OSX and Windows all supported.
>>
>
> I know that they are. But does that detract from the fact that one of the
> best music editors works on linux?

Hah!  I doubt it.  It's like watching a Grade B movie using linux apps.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:18:12 PM
On 09/15/15 06:42, chrisv wrote:
> Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>
>> My wife has used both Sibelius and Finale on computers of friends who run
>> these pograms (she is a musician and a teacher, as well as those friends).
>> She did not like them because both were way too complex for most tasks and
>> have very steep learning curves. She felt that those programs are only OK
>> for someone who does noteediting most of the time, whereas she makes music
>> and teaches, noteediting is something she does not that often.
>>
>> My daughter runs "Capella" which is more than good enough for 99% of
>> noteedit tasks
>
> What?  There is no one "best tool" for everyone?  Even in this small
> portion of the market, there is a need for multiple choices, for the
> different needs and skill-sets of the users?
>

Multiple choices for Turdv are:

1.  A brown turd.
2.  A black turd.
3.  A multi-colored turd.
4.  Runny turds.



-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:19:50 PM
On 09/14/15 21:26, mike wrote:
> On 9/14/2015 8:15 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>> On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy
>>>>> with
>>>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>>>
>>>> I think you are right in this regards. There maybe some hope from HPs
>>>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>>>
>>> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside,
>>> depending on
>>> what you want from desktop Linux. For hobbyists and developers the idea
>>> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>>>
>>> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
>>> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a
>>> commercial
>>> products. But much of what they've done has been howled about within the
>>> Linux community. They've gone their own way and even added some
>>> commercial software into the mix. From a "I want to sell it" point of
>>> view, those are great steps. Solid message, good looking product and the
>>> right mix of free and commercial software. Unfortunately the Linux
>>> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
>> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything. Sort of like
>> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.
>
> Not clear that's true. Many linux users brag about how they bought
> expensive
> hardware that was linux compatible and berate those of us who just want to
> use what we already have.

In my case it got to be too expensive for the oracle yearly licensing 
fees, so I just went win7 on an HP tower.  Later I tried RedHat paid, 
and now back to the free version of Solaris.
It's fun but after using computers since the late 60s, the novelty is 
wearing off.  I think this is my last computer as nothing really new and 
different has shown up.

> Linux users get what they want from linux, or they wouldn't be using it.
> They don't care what you want. It works for them, "FOAD windows whiner!"
> Making linux easier to use and promoting compatible software is just not
> interesting to them. For them, it's not broke.
> They'd lose their elitist status if they fixed it so you could use it.

And that is the problem with the linux community... snobbery.  Of course 
being from the old school of IBM and then DEC, then Sun, I have to laugh.

>>
>> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
>> incentives to try harder.
>>
> Would be interesting to see the statistics on how many programmers
> writing free linux code have shifted to Android in hopes of making a few
> bux for their efforts via playstore.

Anyone that can program, and has win10 now, can get the free VS2013 that 
allows cross programming for Android, iPhone, and windows phone, plus 
the visual emulators to test the code.  So it looks like this is a 
window of opportunity.



-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:28:33 PM
On 09/14/15 21:42, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/14/15 20:26, mike so wittily quipped:
>> On 9/14/2015 8:15 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>> On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>>>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>>>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>>>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>>>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
>>>>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>>>>
>>>> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside,
>>>> depending on
>>>> what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea
>>>> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>>>>
>>>> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
>>>> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a
>>>> commercial
>>>> products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within
>>>> the
>>>> Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some
>>>> commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of
>>>> view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and
>>>> the
>>>> right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux
>>>> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
>>> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like
>>> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.
>>
>> Not clear that's true.  Many linux users brag about how they bought
>> expensive
>> hardware that was linux compatible and berate those of us who just want to
>> use what we already have.
>> Linux users get what they want from linux, or they wouldn't be using it.
>> They don't care what you want.  It works for them, "FOAD windows whiner!"
>> Making linux easier to use and promoting compatible software is just not
>> interesting to them.  For them, it's not broke.
>> They'd lose their elitist status if they fixed it so you could use it.
>
> heh, there's THOSE guys, too.
>
> So "bad Linux users" include:
>
> a) the socialists
> b) the anarchists
> c) the elitist snobs
>

LOL!!!

> and
>
> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
> Linux does very very very well.
>

Very much the point.  There is one area in the C/C++/Fortran area and 
that happens to be interval math.  The sun libs have that library.
Other than that, linux will work.
There are some that use the linux VAX simulator to do some old work.

>>>
>>> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
>>> incentives to try harder.
>>>
>> Would be interesting to see the statistics on how many programmers
>> writing free linux code have shifted to Android in hopes of making a few
>> bux for their efforts via playstore.
>
> probably a LOT. But Android code is typically Java, with 'droid APIs,
> not "Linux" per se.
>

Not my area, but there is the free VS2013 that will allow you to write 
and run code developed for the Android, iPhone, and windows phone.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:34:15 PM
On 09/15/15 04:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>
>>> a) the socialists
>>> b) the anarchists
>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>
>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>
>> too bad I can't edit
>
> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
>
You missed your calling as fairy tale writer, Creepy.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:34:47 PM
On 09/15/15 11:27, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/15/15 03:14, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>>
>>>> a) the socialists
>>>> b) the anarchists
>>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>>
>>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>>
>>> too bad I can't edit
>>
>> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
>>
>
> eh?  ~what~ exactly have I 'made up'?
>
> you're free to disbelieve me if you want.  It doesn't bother me.  But I
> do _NOT_ lie.  I'm not a 'Clinton'.
>
>
Creepy is just one weird dude.  He's an MS hater and shows no qualms 
about it, yet he makes his living in an MS shop.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:36:00 PM
On 09/14/15 21:40, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/14/15 20:15, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/14/15 11:56, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:50:22 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/13/15 13:32, Neil wrote:
>>>>> On 9/13/2015 1:46 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been hoping for linux developers to merge and agree on some kind
>>>>>> of standard, but I've been waiting for over 20 years and no soap yet.
>>>>>> But it can be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not likely to get done with any open source product because there
>>>>> are no "developer's control organizations" that limit the next guy with
>>>>> the "better" idea from revising the source code or specs. Even W3C
>>>>> (HTML) wasn't able to maintain standards beyond 4.01 so now we have
>>>>> "recommended practices", and there are a lot more reasons to
>>>>> standardize HTML than for Linux.
>>>>>
>>>> I think you are right in this regards.  There maybe some hope from HPs
>>>> "The Machine" project, but I'm not holding my breath.
>>>
>>> The problem that Linux has is both a benefit and a downside, depending on
>>> what you want from desktop Linux.  For hobbyists and developers the idea
>>> of free and open with all the distros and GUIs is a big plus.
>>>
>>> But that is what is anathema to a successful commercial product.
>>> Canonical made and is still making some very right steps for a commercial
>>> products.  But much of what they've done has been howled about within the
>>> Linux community.  They've gone their own way and even added some
>>> commercial software into the mix.  From a "I want to sell it" point of
>>> view, those are great steps.  Solid message, good looking product and the
>>> right mix of free and commercial software.  Unfortunately the Linux
>>> community will keep those that might have considered it from even trying
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Such poor attitudes, downright snobby! :(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Makes it sound like the linux community are either hard core marxists or
>> just a bunch of cheap skates that won't pay for anything.  Sort of like
>> Henry Kissingers remarks about useless eaters.
>
> heh, I don't recall that one (the Kissinger remark) - I should look it
> up, use it myself.  Goes along with Ayn Rand and "moochers and looters".
>

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2013/12/05/henry-kissinger-quotes-on-depopulation-and/

A few good quotes.

>> I think it is a good idea to sell software for linux as it gives
>> incentives to try harder.
>
> works for me!
>
> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>
> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
> all of the things that Windows does now.
>
>
Pretty much was what I mean.  Some of the apps aren't that well thought 
out, but could use a lot of improvements.  The ideas aren't bad, just 
needs to be refined.  The incentives would be to get paid for improving it.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:40:04 PM
On 09/14/15 22:55, mike wrote:
> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>
>>
>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>> community. And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable! OpenWRT is another good
>> example. It helps the entire industry.
>>
>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>
>>
> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
> Give poor joe average a chance to get started and start learning
> before you pull the rug out from under him with another distro
> or update to the current one that throws everything up in the air
> just for fun.
> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
> page. And you have a chance of asking a question and getting a relevant
> answer.
> The gurus can still fork theirs up from the repository of infinite choice.
> People would write scripts to convert the baseline to their own forked
> version and it would be constructed from the exact same repository of
> vetted/evaluated/compatible files. No version issues or dependency hell.
> There'd be so many forkers with nothing to do that we'd have
> a flood of new/compatible/vetted software in the repository.
>
> Once you decide to make a GUI-centric OS, you can do a LOT under the
> hood with trivial changes to the GUI. "Hey look, a new option,"
> sounds a lot better than, "How the hell was I to know that there
> was a new CLI option to do what I need?"
>
> It's not rocket science. All it takes is leadership and developers
> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>

I concur.  Trouble is, there isn't any leadership.  Linus could pull it 
off, if he had a mind to.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:40:59 PM
On 09/14/15 21:52, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/14/15 20:18, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>> On 09/14/15 13:05, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 09/14/15 10:52, GreyCloud so wittily quipped:
>>>> On 09/14/15 02:49, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>>>> Anonymous wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article<snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid>    wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too funny.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>>>>> out the window.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
>>>>
>>>> You can blame the NEAs agenda on that one.
>>>> This country has already gone down the tubes, thanks to them.
>>>> That's why they have to get the VISA carded foreigners to do the
>>>> engineering now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> heh, probably true.  they're busy indoctrinating the 'young skulls full
>>> of mush' in the glory of leftism, radical environmentalism, and reverse
>>> racism [it's all "whitey's" fault], and failing to educate in areas that
>>> would actually STIMULATE creativity (music, art), and swapping in the
>>> poetry of Maya Angeloo instead of the poetry of Robert Louis Stevensen.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Louis_Stevenson#Politics
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Child%27s_Garden_of_Verses
>>>
>>> And don't forget teaching kids NOT to think for themselves.  It's harder
>>> to *control* a free thinking person.  better start *EARLY* to PREVENT
>>> it...
>>>
>>> And the "new new math" that's part of 'common core'...  Ew.
>>>
>>> http://truthinamericaneducation.com/common-core-state-standards/common-core-math-problems/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These are *ALL* recipes for *FAIL* for the next generation.
>>>
>>> and don't EVEN get me started on the drugging of non-linear minded
>>> creative students that fidget because they're *BORED* in a class filled
>>> with linear-minded kids, so they get DRUGGED with Ritalin instead, to
>>> force their little minds to "dumb down" so they won't distrupt.
>>>
>>> nevermind that great inventors like THOMAS EDISON was a kid like that!
>>> Guess what HE ended up being like?  yeah.  take the best and brightest,
>>> dumb them down, make the nail that sticks out GET THE HAMMER, train
>>> people NOT to excel, NOT to do better, and NOT give rewards if they ever
>>> *DO* do better.
>>>
>>> Recipe for FAIL.
>>>
>>> No WONDER Windows 10 looks the way it does!  it was designed by the
>>> children of THIS kind of education system!
>>>
>>>
>> I thought it was designed in India.  It has the cultures characteristics
>> showing a bit.
>>
>> But I agree with you on the education system.  A pure mess.
>> Ask any teacher today why they don't teach how to get rich.  They have
>> no idea, yet it is supposed to be an education system.  Guess you have
>> to send the kid to Harvard to learn the ins and outs of shady dealings
>> for business.
>>
>>
>
> oh, come on, now, not ALL businesses are "shady".  But a lot of them
> appear to be.  They give money to politicians to buy legislation in
> their favor.
>

That's where a lot of our politicians went to college.  LOL!!!

> Then there are the CORE businesses, the smaller ones, who are like me, I
> think... [yeah, /me owns a corporation, not earning enough money with it
> either, but I stick with it because I don't wanna be a wage slave]
>

But the school system doesn't teach small business 101.
If they knew, most of them would bail out of the state school system.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/15/2015 8:44:39 PM
On 09/15/2015 04:40 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
> On 09/14/15 22:55, mike wrote:
>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>> community. And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable! OpenWRT is another good
>>> example. It helps the entire industry.
>>>
>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>
>>>
>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>> Give poor joe average a chance to get started and start learning
>> before you pull the rug out from under him with another distro
>> or update to the current one that throws everything up in the air
>> just for fun.
>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>> page. And you have a chance of asking a question and getting a relevant
>> answer.
>> The gurus can still fork theirs up from the repository of infinite choice.
>> People would write scripts to convert the baseline to their own forked
>> version and it would be constructed from the exact same repository of
>> vetted/evaluated/compatible files. No version issues or dependency hell.
>> There'd be so many forkers with nothing to do that we'd have
>> a flood of new/compatible/vetted software in the repository.
>>
>> Once you decide to make a GUI-centric OS, you can do a LOT under the
>> hood with trivial changes to the GUI. "Hey look, a new option,"
>> sounds a lot better than, "How the hell was I to know that there
>> was a new CLI option to do what I need?"
>>
>> It's not rocket science. All it takes is leadership and developers
>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>>
>
> I concur.  Trouble is, there isn't any leadership.  Linus could pull it
> off, if he had a mind to.
>
>

He has no intrest in Linux OSs.

-- 
Caver1
0
Caver1
9/15/2015 8:54:33 PM
Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 09/15/15 03:14, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>>
>>>> a) the socialists
>>>> b) the anarchists
>>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>>
>>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>>
>>> too bad I can't edit
>> 
>> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
>
> eh?  ~what~ exactly have I 'made up'?
>
> you're free to disbelieve me if you want.  It doesn't bother me.  But I
> do _NOT_ lie.  I'm not a 'Clinton'.

Moron.

-- 
You have taken yourself too seriously.
0
Chris
9/16/2015 11:59:33 AM
On 09/16/15 04:59, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On 09/15/15 03:14, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>>>
>>>>> a) the socialists
>>>>> b) the anarchists
>>>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>>>
>>>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>>>
>>>> too bad I can't edit
>>>
>>> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
>>
>> eh?  ~what~ exactly have I 'made up'?
>>
>> you're free to disbelieve me if you want.  It doesn't bother me.  But I
>> do _NOT_ lie.  I'm not a 'Clinton'.
> 
> Moron.
> 

That's Mr. Moron, SIR! to you

0
Big
9/16/2015 12:39:00 PM
On 15/09/2015 02:11, Anonymous wrote:
> In article <mt61ir$17b$1@dont-email.me>
> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Anonymous wrote:
>>
>>> In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>
>>>> Too funny.
>>>
>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>> out the window.
>>>
>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>
>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
> 
> I was smart enough to pocket $326K with paid travel working on 
> every continent last year.  What did you make sweetypie?
> 

Are you a Mule? I hear trafficking is lucrative. Do you swallow or do
you get strapped?
0
Jenny
9/16/2015 1:32:04 PM
mike wrote:

>Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>...
>We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>page. 
>...
>It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.

Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.

-- 
"What IS it with all these idiots wanting their own distro? Do they
get their own Windows? No."   -  "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark
0
chrisv
9/16/2015 2:51:30 PM
On 9/16/2015 10:51 AM, chrisv wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>> ...
>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>> page.
>> ...
>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>
> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.



'Cause that 1000-distros-plan is working just fine.


0
DFS
9/16/2015 3:03:04 PM
mike wrote:

>It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.

Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
that most do not.

Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.

-- 
"One corrupt document sent into work could cost them their job." -
"True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark, FUD'ing Open Office
0
chrisv
9/16/2015 3:20:00 PM
Jenny Telia wrote:

> On 15/09/2015 02:11, Anonymous wrote:
>> In article <mt61ir$17b$1@dont-email.me>
>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anonymous wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <snlvixoqxwco.1r7vk57ysnbkx$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>>> "p-0''0-h the cat (UK) - The voice of the Sheeple"
>>>> <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST), Bubba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm hoping that Linux developers are closely monitoring
>>>>>> this Micro$py 10 runaway train speeding down the tracks,
>>>>>> so that might further motivate them to join forces and
>>>>>> standardize the Linux OS into a Windows-like, user friendly
>>>>>> version that will become very popular among disillusioned,
>>>>>> more like betrayed and disgusted, Windows users.  And PC
>>>>>> hardware manufacturers might consider jumping ship from
>>>>>> the proprietary sinking wreck of the RM$ Titanic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Too funny.
>>>>
>>>> Once M$ put an Indian in charge of the company, all ethics went
>>>> out the window.
>>>>
>>>> These are the same scum who engineer American workers out of
>>>> jobs and then send the work to India.
>>>
>>> Those "American workers" - are they as stupid as you are, dizum coward?
>> 
>> I was smart enough to pocket $326K with paid travel working on
>> every continent last year.  What did you make sweetypie?
>> 
> 
> Are you a Mule? I hear trafficking is lucrative. Do you swallow or do
> you get strapped?


I hear he often gets stuffed
0
Peter
9/16/2015 3:58:03 PM
On 09/16/2015 11:20 AM, chrisv wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>
> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
> that most do not.
>
> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>

MSO and  PlayOnLinux works, but not needed.

-- 
Caver1
0
Caver1
9/16/2015 4:36:52 PM
On 09/16/15 08:20, chrisv so wittily quipped:
> mike wrote:
> 
>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
> 
> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
> that most do not.
> 
> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
> 

that's where *MARKETING* would come in nicely.  But such a thing does
NOT exist (that I'm aware of) for Linux and other open source operating
systems (like BSD).

I cite the 'Ernie Ball' story, from back in the noughties...

http://web.archive.org/web/20131203041308/http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html


0
Big
9/16/2015 5:37:17 PM
Big Bad Bob wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
>> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>
>that's where *MARKETING* would come in nicely. 

Yes, but...

>But such a thing does
>NOT exist (that I'm aware of) for Linux and other open source operating
>systems (like BSD).

It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
there is no money for marketing.

-- 
"It has been shown time and time again that consumers dont want/need
Linux."  -  "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark
0
chrisv
9/16/2015 5:51:23 PM
Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 09/16/15 04:59, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> On 09/15/15 03:14, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) the socialists
>>>>>> b) the anarchists
>>>>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>>>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>>>>
>>>>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>>>>
>>>>> too bad I can't edit
>>>>
>>>> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
>>>
>>> eh?  ~what~ exactly have I 'made up'?
>>>
>>> you're free to disbelieve me if you want.  It doesn't bother me.  But I
>>> do _NOT_ lie.  I'm not a 'Clinton'.
>> 
>> Moron.
>
> That's Mr. Moron, SIR! to you

At least you have a sense of humor!

-- 
Your society will be sought by people of taste and refinement.
0
Chris
9/16/2015 6:12:12 PM
In article <hq1jva596s78rbac5vrrlc23tt671o39mb@4ax.com>
chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> mike wrote:
>
> >It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
> >Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
> >renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>
> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
> that most do not.

Well...that's a generally accurate analogy.  There is a 
relationship between the use of office/work applications and 
habit of use at home - if the software is available.  People 
tend to use/stay with what they know.  It's the Wordstar vs Word 
Perfect comparison.

> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.

Many of us grew up with Windows, we know how it works and same 
hardware bare metal restores generally go pretty well.  Windows 
had to be "dumbed down" just like modern Linux to make it 
attractive to the unwashed masses.

Two things would make Linux immediately more attractive.

A bundled simple backup and restore app that any user can 
understand.

A nice bundled build of all the stupid trendy stuff people use 
so they don't have to go run it down.  Like the Android stuff 
has.

Linux Mint does a great job of most of these things, just needs 
a bit more fine tuning.  I put two decent running single core 
boxes with Linux Mint on them out by the curb with free signs, 
even tossed the distro inside each case. Both boxes disappeared 
in a few hours and one guy even left me a thank you note on the 
door a few days later.

Complicated consumes time and entertains, simple sells.

0
Anonymous
9/16/2015 6:23:35 PM
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 09:51:30 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> mike wrote:
> 
>>Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>>...
>>We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>>page.
>>...
>>It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>>willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
> 
> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.

And an even smaller mental-midget that doesn't understand how sales and 
marketing works.  And 'free market' doesn't mean 'free' in any sense you 
think you understand.  Face it, you have no business acumen whatsoever and 
even less marketing/sales skills.

The tech doesn't sell the product!




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/16/2015 6:28:03 PM
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:03:04 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 9/16/2015 10:51 AM, chrisv wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>>> ...
>>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>>> page.
>>> ...
>>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>>
>> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
>> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
>> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Cause that 1000-distros-plan is working just fine.

They just cannot believe that it could be any other way.  That's the 
problem when you have geeks thinking they have any business clues.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/16/2015 6:28:55 PM
On 9/16/15, 11:28 AM, in article d5tqliFrtnoU2@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 09:51:30 -0500, chrisv wrote:
> 
>> mike wrote:
>> 
>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>>> ...
>>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>>> page.
>>> ...
>>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>> 
>> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
>> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
>> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.
> 
> And an even smaller mental-midget that doesn't understand how sales and
> marketing works.  And 'free market' doesn't mean 'free' in any sense you
> think you understand.  Face it, you have no business acumen whatsoever and
> even less marketing/sales skills.
> 
> The tech doesn't sell the product!

A "free" market does not mean any product you put out, no matter how good or
bad, or how appealing or not, will do as well as others.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/16/2015 6:46:07 PM
On 9/16/2015 8:20 AM, chrisv wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>
> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
> that most do not.
>
> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>
I see that you're forcing YOUR choices onto others.

Choice is only helpful if it's MY choice.
0
mike
9/16/2015 7:39:24 PM
On 9/16/2015 7:51 AM, chrisv wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>> ...
>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>> page.
>> ...
>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>
> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.
>
You're not paying attention.  Too much effort on denigration and not
enough on making linux easier for the newbie.

I never advocated fewer choices.
I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are gurus.
Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
and the gurus will be unaffected.
0
mike
9/16/2015 7:51:03 PM
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:51:03 -0700, mike wrote:

> On 9/16/2015 7:51 AM, chrisv wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>>> ...
>>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>>> page.
>>> ...
>>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>>
>> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
>> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
>> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.
>>
> You're not paying attention.  Too much effort on denigration and not
> enough on making linux easier for the newbie.
> 
> I never advocated fewer choices.
> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point and STRUCTURED
> enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are
> gurus.
> Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
> and the gurus will be unaffected.

That's an interesting approach.



-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/16/2015 7:56:24 PM
To be honest, it's not really a shocking revelation. Microsoft is really tr=
ying to push it's little data mining creature on every computer out there. =
Generally, I feel like Linux should get a good jump in the userbase pretty =
soon. At least not until they find the way to get hardware restrictions and=
 not get into a lot of trouble at the same time.
0
Arc
9/16/2015 8:10:17 PM
mike wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>
>> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
>> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
>> that most do not.
>>
>> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
>> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>>
>I see that you're forcing YOUR choices onto others.

I see that you are a bald-faced liar.

One more like that and I'm sending you deep, "mike".

>Choice is only helpful if it's MY choice.

-- 
"Typical shifty freetard response as expected."  -  "True Linux
advocate" Hadron Quark
0
chrisv
9/16/2015 8:15:17 PM
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:10:17 -0700, Arc Futahito wrote:

> To be honest, it's not really a shocking revelation. Microsoft is really
> trying to push it's little data mining creature on every computer out
> there. Generally, I feel like Linux should get a good jump in the
> userbase pretty soon. At least not until they find the way to get
> hardware restrictions and not get into a lot of trouble at the same
> time.

And another one that believes that because of the supposed superiority of 
desktop linux that it will garner some meaningful share.  The tech 
dumpsters are full of great products that never made it in the real world 
because of decisions made about how to present it to the public.  Or they 
fixed a problem/need that didn't really exist.

Face it, desktop linux is a fine OS with exactly zero compelling reasons 
to switch to it and a whole slew of business reasons why no one is.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/16/2015 8:20:49 PM
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:15:17 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> mike wrote:
> 
>> chrisv wrote:
>>> mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux. Most
>>>> every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that renders
>>>> linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>>
>>> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
>>> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
>>> that most do not.
>>>
>>> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
>>> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>>>
>>I see that you're forcing YOUR choices onto others.
> 
> I see that you are a bald-faced liar.
> 
> One more like that and I'm sending you deep, "mike".
> 
>>Choice is only helpful if it's MY choice.

and another truth that chrisv doesn't like and he posts about it from 
windows again.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/16/2015 8:21:37 PM
In article <cbjjva93q9b93u29m4s3bl3m7345ml35v6@4ax.com>
chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> mike wrote:
>
> > chrisv wrote:
> >> mike wrote:
> >>
> >>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
> >>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
> >>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
> >>
> >> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
> >> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
> >> that most do not.
> >>
> >> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
> >> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
> >>
> >I see that you're forcing YOUR choices onto others.
>
> I see that you are a bald-faced liar.
>
> One more like that and I'm sending you deep, "mike".
>
> >Choice is only helpful if it's MY choice.
>
> --
> "Typical shifty freetard response as expected."  -  "True Linux
> advocate" Hadron Quark

0
Duval
9/16/2015 8:21:58 PM
On 9/16/15, 1:20 PM, in article d5u190FtiqpU3@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:10:17 -0700, Arc Futahito wrote:
> 
>> To be honest, it's not really a shocking revelation. Microsoft is really
>> trying to push it's little data mining creature on every computer out
>> there. Generally, I feel like Linux should get a good jump in the
>> userbase pretty soon. At least not until they find the way to get
>> hardware restrictions and not get into a lot of trouble at the same
>> time.
> 
> And another one that believes that because of the supposed superiority of
> desktop linux that it will garner some meaningful share.  The tech
> dumpsters are full of great products that never made it in the real world
> because of decisions made about how to present it to the public.  Or they
> fixed a problem/need that didn't really exist.
> 
> Face it, desktop linux is a fine OS with exactly zero compelling reasons
> to switch to it and a whole slew of business reasons why no one is.

But it does seem that MS is learning from Google how to gather and monetize
people's information. I am happy that Linux distros generally do this less
AND that Apple is differentiating itself by doing this less than MS and
Google. 

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/16/2015 8:44:50 PM
mike wrote:

> On 9/17/2015 3:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>>>
>>>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>>>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>>>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>>>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are
>>>> gurus. Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
>>
>> Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.
>>
>>>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>>>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>>>
>>> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'
> 
>> And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
>> laptops.
>>
>> "mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
>> deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
>> pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
>> (though slightly less so these days) company.
>>
> Methinks the ignorance is owned by the linux zealots.
> Bitching about evil M$ won't get desktop linux anywhere.
> The linux "team(s)" need to use the same techniques proven by M$
> if they want to invade the desktop market beyond the gurus and
> hobbyists.  A fleet of 100 random distros rowing in all directions
> is hardly a threat.
> Yes, I know that you don't want to...but I do wish we had a viable
> alternative to MS on the desktop.

We have. Since years. And you can stuff your "fleet of 100 random distros". 
It is a bullshit argument, since at most around 10 distros are used for 
deneral desktop usage. The other distros are "special purpose" or distros 
for linux specialists

0
Peter
9/17/2015 1:01:01 AM
On 09/16/15 10:51, chrisv so wittily quipped:
> Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
>>> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>>
>> that's where *MARKETING* would come in nicely. 
> 
> Yes, but...
> 
>> But such a thing does
>> NOT exist (that I'm aware of) for Linux and other open source operating
>> systems (like BSD).
> 
> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
> there is no money for marketing.
> 

what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to MONETIZE
open source operating systems...

I think that if INTEL wants to sell computers, and MICROSOFT is SCREWING
THE POOCH, that maybe it's time for Intel and AMD and Lenovo and HP and
Acer and others to, well, *COUGH* *UP* *SOME* *CASH* and get a marketing
campaign going for Linux, and they [and we] ALL benefit!


0
Big
9/17/2015 6:31:41 AM
On 09/16/15 11:23, Anonymous so wittily quipped:
> Linux Mint does a great job of most of these things, just needs 
> a bit more fine tuning.

and it doesn't look like gnome 3 or unity.

> Complicated consumes time and entertains, simple sells.

possibly, possibly not.  you can have BOTH, I think (both complex AND
simple), by use of default and advanced configs.



0
Big
9/17/2015 6:33:12 AM
On 09/16/15 11:12, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On 09/16/15 04:59, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 09/15/15 03:14, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
>>>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 09/14/15 20:42, Big Bad Bob so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> So "bad Linux users" include:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a) the socialists
>>>>>>> b) the anarchists
>>>>>>> c) the elitist snobs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> d) the rest of us, who just want an OS that does things for us that
>>>>>>> Linux does very very very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> er, 'd' not being "bad" (oops)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> too bad I can't edit
>>>>>
>>>>> But you're pretty good at making up stuff.
>>>>
>>>> eh?  ~what~ exactly have I 'made up'?
>>>>
>>>> you're free to disbelieve me if you want.  It doesn't bother me.  But I
>>>> do _NOT_ lie.  I'm not a 'Clinton'.
>>>
>>> Moron.
>>
>> That's Mr. Moron, SIR! to you
> 
> At least you have a sense of humor!
> 

I don't take anything on USENET all that seriously.  and if someone on
USENET who acted like an asshat did so IRL, I'd probably punch him in
the face.  *oops*.  So it's to be expected on USENET since fists can't
fit in TCP packets.


0
Big
9/17/2015 6:36:10 AM
On 09/16/15 11:28, Lloyd Parsons so wittily quipped:
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 09:51:30 -0500, chrisv wrote:
> 
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>>> ...
>>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>>> page.
>>> ...
>>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>>
>> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
>> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
>> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.
> 
> And an even smaller mental-midget that doesn't understand how sales and 
> marketing works.  And 'free market' doesn't mean 'free' in any sense you 
> think you understand.  Face it, you have no business acumen whatsoever and 
> even less marketing/sales skills.
> 
> The tech doesn't sell the product!

unfortunately, all too often the case.



0
Big
9/17/2015 6:37:32 AM
On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
> On 9/16/2015 7:51 AM, chrisv wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
>>> ...
>>> We need ONE standard desktop linux so everybody can start on the same
>>> page.
>>> ...
>>> It's not rocket science.  All it takes is leadership and developers
>>> willing to follow the plan instead of forking off on their own.
>>
>> Another mental-midget who thinks that fewer choices will make Linux
>> appeal to more people.  Another ignorant wannabe dictator who thinks
>> that committees and five-year plans can beat the free market.
>>
> You're not paying attention.  Too much effort on denigration and not
> enough on making linux easier for the newbie.
> 
> I never advocated fewer choices.

extremists can't see that

> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are gurus.
> Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
> and the gurus will be unaffected.


usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'

0
Big
9/17/2015 6:38:38 AM
Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>
>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are gurus.
>> Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.

Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.

>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>
> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'

And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
laptops.

"mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
(though slightly less so these days) company.

-- 
The ripest fruit falls first.
		-- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"
0
Chris
9/17/2015 10:05:04 AM
On 9/17/2015 3:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>>
>>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are gurus.
>>> Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
>
> Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.
>
>>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>>
>> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'

> And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
> laptops.
>
> "mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
> deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
> pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
> (though slightly less so these days) company.
>
Methinks the ignorance is owned by the linux zealots.
Bitching about evil M$ won't get desktop linux anywhere.
The linux "team(s)" need to use the same techniques proven by M$
if they want to invade the desktop market beyond the gurus and 
hobbyists.  A fleet of 100 random distros rowing in all directions
is hardly a threat.
Yes, I know that you don't want to...but I do wish we had a viable
alternative to MS on the desktop.
0
mike
9/17/2015 10:57:30 AM
Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> mike wrote:
>
>> On 9/17/2015 3:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>>>>
>>>>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>>>>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>>>>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>>>>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are
>>>>> gurus. Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
>>>
>>> Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.
>>>
>>>>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>>>>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>>>>
>>>> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'
>> 
>>> And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
>>> laptops.
>>>
>>> "mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
>>> deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
>>> pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
>>> (though slightly less so these days) company.
>>>
>> Methinks the ignorance is owned by the linux zealots.
>> Bitching about evil M$ won't get desktop linux anywhere.
>> The linux "team(s)" need to use the same techniques proven by M$
>> if they want to invade the desktop market beyond the gurus and
>> hobbyists.  A fleet of 100 random distros rowing in all directions
>> is hardly a threat.
>> Yes, I know that you don't want to...but I do wish we had a viable
>> alternative to MS on the desktop.
>
> We have. Since years. And you can stuff your "fleet of 100 random distros". 
> It is a bullshit argument, since at most around 10 distros are used for 
> deneral desktop usage. The other distros are "special purpose" or distros 
> for linux specialists

"mike" is simply a troll, who lets facts go in one ear and out the other.

As witness his total disregard of my argument concerning the lack of success
of Canonical, who did exactly what he wanted, and still couldn't overcome
the enormous infrastructure revolving around Microsoft products and
services.

He is an idiot.

-- 
Q:	Why did the lone ranger kill Tonto?
A:	He found out what "kimosabe" really means.
0
Chris
9/17/2015 11:47:52 AM
On 9/17/2015 7:33 AM, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> On 9/17/2015 3:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>>>>
>>>>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>>>>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>>>>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>>>>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are
>>>>> gurus. Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
>>>
>>> Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.
>>>
>>>>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>>>>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>>>>
>>>> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'
>>
>>> And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
>>> laptops.
>>>
>>> "mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
>>> deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
>>> pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
>>> (though slightly less so these days) company.
>>>
>> Methinks the ignorance is owned by the linux zealots.
>> Bitching about evil M$ won't get desktop linux anywhere.
>> The linux "team(s)" need to use the same techniques proven by M$
>> if they want to invade the desktop market beyond the gurus and
>> hobbyists.  A fleet of 100 random distros rowing in all directions
>> is hardly a threat.
>> Yes, I know that you don't want to...but I do wish we had a viable
>> alternative to MS on the desktop.
>
> We have. Since years.

Horseshit.

A viable alternative to Windows means acceptable, if not good, 
substitutes exist for ALL the apps that run on Windows.  In lots of 
cases, Linux doesn't have them.

Here are the recent Top 100 Amazon software sellers.  30+ of them are in 
accounting, dictation, illustration, language, Photoshop/related, 
personal finance and tax.  If they even exist, the FOSS versions are 
mostly bogus.

You can lower your standards and delude yourself and lie like an idiot 
on cola, but Linux/FOSS can't compete.

======================================================================
Sep 12 Amazon Top 100 software sellers

19	QuickBooks Pro Small Business Account...	accounting
26	QuickBooks Pro Small Business Account...	accounting
87	QuickBooks Mac Small Business Account...	accounting

81	Adobe Acrobat X Standard	Adobe Acrobat
93	Adobe Acrobat Pro DC Windows [Download]	Adobe Acrobat

9	Amazon Cloud Drive Desktop [PC] [Down...	Amazon cloud
61	Amazon Cloud Drive Desktop [Mac] [Dow...	Amazon cloud

3	Norton Security (For 5 Devices) [Down...	anti-malware
6	Avast Free Antivirus 2015 [Download]	anti-malware
8	Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 (3 PCs)	anti-malware
10	Norton Security (For 5 Devices)	anti-malware
14	Norton Security with Backup (For 10 D...	anti-malware
15	Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 3 Us...	anti-malware
20	McAfee Total Protection  2015 3 PCs	anti-malware
22	McAfee 2015 Total Protection 3PC [Onl...	anti-malware
30	Norton Security with Backup (For 10 D...	anti-malware
31	SecureAnywhere AntiVirus 2015 3 Devic...	anti-malware
44	SecureAnywhere Internet Security Comp...	anti-malware
54	360 Total Security - Free Antivirus &...	anti-malware
60	Kaspersky Anti-Virus 2015 1 User, 1 Year	anti-malware
63	AntiVirus 2015 3 Device 1 Year PC	anti-malware
69	Trend Micro Maximum Security 2015 - 3...	anti-malware
73	McAfee 2015 LiveSafe 1 Yr, Unlimited...	anti-malware
78	Norton Security for One Device [Downl...	anti-malware
82	Kaspersky Anti-Virus 2015 3 User, 1 Year	anti-malware
90	Internet Security Complete 2015 - 1 Y...	anti-malware

34	Dragon NaturallySpeaking Home 13.0, E...	dictation
55	Dragon NaturallySpeaking Premium 13.0...	dictation
99	Dragon NaturallySpeaking Home 13.0 [D...	dictation

72	Easy VHS to DVD 3 Plus	DVD converter

71	Adobe Flash Player 16 for Windows [Do...	Flash

48	Manga Studio 5	illustrations

1	Kindle for PC [Download]	Kindle
4	Kindle for Mac [Download]	Kindle

91	Learn Spanish: Rosetta Stone Spanish...	language

42	LibreOffice v4.3 for PC [Open Source...	LibreOffice

66	onlineTV [Download]	misc
92	PrintMaster 18.1	misc

16	Quicken Deluxe Personal Finance & Bud...	money mgmt
28	Quicken For Mac Personal Finance & Bu...	money mgmt
47	Quicken Deluxe Personal Finance & Bud...	money mgmt

5	Office Mac Home and Student 2011 - 1P...	MS Office
11	Microsoft Office Home and Student 201...	MS Office
18	Microsoft Office Home and Business 20...	MS Office
36	Office Home & Business 2013 Key Card...	MS Office
37	Office Home & Student 2013 Key Card 1...	MS Office
39	Microsoft Office 365 University 4-yea...	MS Office
41	Microsoft Office 365 Home 1yr Subscri...	MS Office
43	Office 365 Personal 1yr Subscription...	MS Office
45	Office 365 Home 5 PCs or Macs Key Car...	MS Office
46	Office Mac 2011 Home and Business 201...	MS Office
59	Office Mac Home & Student 2011 Key Ca...	MS Office
62	Microsoft Publisher 2013 (1PC/1User)...	MS Office
68	Microsoft Office 365 Personal 1yr Sub...	MS Office
80	Microsoft Office Home and Student 201...	MS Office
89	Microsoft Office Home & Business 2010...	MS Office
94	Microsoft Office 365 Small Business P...	MS Office
96	Microsoft Outlook 2013 (1PC/1User) [D...	MS Office
97	Excel Budget Software and Checkbook R...	MS Office
98	Office 365 University 4yr Academic Ke...	MS Office

2	Amazon Music with Prime Music [PC] [D...	music
12	Amazon Music with Prime Music [Mac] [...	music

7	Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit, Sys...	OS
17	Windows 7 Professional SP1 64bit (OEM...	OS
23	Windows 7 Professional SP1 64bit (OEM...	OS
24	Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64 Bit Syst...	OS
25	Microsoft Windows 8.1 - Full Version	OS
29	Microsoft Windows 10 Home | USB Flash...	OS
32	Microsoft Windows 10 Home | Download	OS
35	Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit Syste...	OS
50	Windows 7 Professional SP1 32bit (OEM...	OS
52	Windows 8.1 System Builder OEM DVD 64...	OS
58	Windows 8 Pro Upgrade 32/64 Bit (Prod...	OS
74	Microsoft Windows 10 Pro | Download	OS
75	Microsoft Windows 10 Pro | USB Flash...	OS
77	Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit, Sys...	OS
83	Windows 8.1 Pro System Builder OEM DV...	OS
84	Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 32bit (OEM...	OS
53	Mac OS X version 10.6.3 Snow Leopard...	OS (Mac)

56	Quicken Premier Personal Finance & Bu...	personal finance
64	Quicken Home & Business Personal Fina...	personal finance
79	Quicken Starter Edition Personal Fina...	personal finance

13	Adobe Photoshop Elements 13	Photoshop
21	Adobe Photoshop & Premiere Elements 13	Photoshop
27	Adobe Photoshop Elements 13 [Download]	Photoshop
40	Adobe Photoshop & Premiere Elements 1...	Photoshop
49	Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 6	Photoshop
57	Adobe Photoshop Elements 13 [Mac Down...	Photoshop
65	Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 6 - Mac [Do...	Photoshop
95	Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan...	Photoshop

33	CCleaner Free [Download]	system utility
76	System Mechanic Free - Version 14.6 [...	system utility

38	TurboTax Business 2014 Fed + Fed Efil...	tax
51	TurboTax Deluxe 2014 Fed + State + Fe...	tax
67	H&R Block Tax Software Deluxe + State...	tax
70	TurboTax Home & Business 2014 Fed + S...	tax
86	TurboTax Deluxe 2014 Fed + State + Fe...	tax
100	TurboTax Premier 2014 Fed + State + F...	tax

88	Typing Instructor for Kids Platinum 5	typing
85	WordPerfect Office X7 Home and Student	WordPerfect Office
======================================================================


> And you can stuff your "fleet of 100 random distros".
> It is a bullshit argument, since at most around 10 distros are used for
> deneral desktop usage. The other distros are "special purpose" or distros
> for linux specialists

Idiot.

The other 1008 distros include hundreds dedicated to 'general desktop 
usage' but nobody cares about them.


Recently:

Active: 254
Dormant: 61
Discontinued: 447
Waiting List: 256
Total: 1018

www.distrowatch.com


0
DFS
9/17/2015 12:08:39 PM
Big Bad Bob wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>> 
>> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
>> there is no money for marketing.
>
>what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to MONETIZE
>open source operating systems...

Obviously, the emerging business model is to give-away, or heavily
subsidize, the "product", and later make money from "app stores", ads,
and such.  FOSS does facilitate these businesses.

>I think that if INTEL wants to sell computers, and MICROSOFT is SCREWING
>THE POOCH, that maybe it's time for Intel and AMD and Lenovo and HP and
>Acer and others to, well, *COUGH* *UP* *SOME* *CASH* and get a marketing
>campaign going for Linux, and they [and we] ALL benefit!

Well, there is no money in trying to sell something that is free.  So,
no money in marketing "Linux".  

Free software *can* facilitate the sale of hardware and the
above-mentioned apps and services.  But, in no market can a
new/obscure product compete against the market leader, unless it can
undercut the market leader in price, and the desktop PC market is so
fscked-up that Windows PC's generally cost no more, or even less, than
PC's with Free operating systems installed.  It's FUBAR.

-- 
"Firstly they think people should give their work away."  -  "True
Linux advocate" Hadron Quark, attacking FOSS advocates with lies
0
chrisv
9/17/2015 12:13:32 PM
On 9/17/2015 6:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and laptops.
>
>powerful and unscrupulous
> (though slightly less so these days) company.



"Marti, we don't care about Microsoft and its products here."
Chris "Little Beaver" Ahlstrom, Oct 2013




0
DFS
9/17/2015 12:16:09 PM
On 9/17/2015 8:13 AM, shitv wrote:
> Big Bad Bob wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
>>> there is no money for marketing.
>>
>> what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to MONETIZE
>> open source operating systems...
>
> Obviously, the emerging business model is to give-away, or heavily
> subsidize, the "product", and later make money from "app stores", ads,
> and such.  FOSS does facilitate these businesses.
>
>> I think that if INTEL wants to sell computers, and MICROSOFT is SCREWING
>> THE POOCH, that maybe it's time for Intel and AMD and Lenovo and HP and
>> Acer and others to, well, *COUGH* *UP* *SOME* *CASH* and get a marketing
>> campaign going for Linux, and they [and we] ALL benefit!
>
> Well, there is no money in trying to sell something that is free.  So,
> no money in marketing "Linux".
>
> Free software *can* facilitate the sale of hardware and the
> above-mentioned apps and services.  But, in no market can a
> new/obscure product compete against the market leader, unless it can
> undercut the market leader in price, and the desktop PC market is so
> fscked-up that Windows PC's generally cost no more, or even less, than
> PC's with Free operating systems installed.  It's FUBAR.


Everywhere else you babble "the free market rulez", but somehow the 
destktop OS market is an exception?

Good one, turd!


Note: if you weren't so stupid and uninformed you'd know why a 
Windows-preinstalled system can sometimes cost less (depends on the 
vendor) than one with no OS or Linux or FreeDOS.




0
DFS
9/17/2015 12:20:17 PM
On 9/17/2015 7:47 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:


> Microsoft products and services.


"Marti, we don't care about Microsoft and its products here."
Chris "Little Beaver" Ahlstrom, Oct 2013




0
DFS
9/17/2015 12:21:36 PM
On 09/17/15 04:47, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
> the lack of success of Canonical, who did exactly what he wanted,
> and still couldn't overcome the enormous infrastructure revolving
> around Microsoft products and services.

Canonical and Ubuntu miss the boat by making 'Unity' their flagship,
daring to embed ads in the search [like microsoft's adware in W10], and
so on.  I like ubu's cutting edge packages, but I don't like the
defaults at *ALL* [gnome 3 and unity stink].  But switch to Mate, and
everything seems ok.  VERY easy to work with.

it might ALSO be worth pointing out that Linspire's big mistake was the
use of subscriptions, something Microsoft seems to be moving TOWARDS...


0
Big
9/17/2015 5:17:07 PM
On 09/17/15 05:13, chrisv so wittily quipped:
> Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
>>> there is no money for marketing.
>>
>> what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to MONETIZE
>> open source operating systems...
> 
> Obviously, the emerging business model is to give-away, or heavily
> subsidize, the "product", and later make money from "app stores", ads,
> and such.  FOSS does facilitate these businesses.

very true, and it's why it has a BETTER chance of success, because I
really think people are about to *REJECT* the idea, particularly with
windows 10.

For worldwide net stats, W10 is relatively flat in the ~6% range,
despite being *FREE*, with a quick spike up front to about 5%, and most
of that is 8.x users switching to 10.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-daily-20150801-20150917

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-201531-201538


and NOW it's leveling off, even going DOWN a bit...


So that's Microsoft's attempt at marketing a FREE operating system (for
now), which really is NOT free because of the adware and spyware
embedded in it.  THAT and it stinks on ice because of the 2D look
[instead of XP and 7's 3D skeumorphic look], the "start thing" with its
alphabetized 'all apps(sic)' list, "the METRO" in general, FORCED
updates for home users, yotta yotta.

point being, FREE isn't the issue here.  USABILITY and SUPPORT are.

And existing companies like RH *could* take advantage of that.


0
Big
9/17/2015 5:37:01 PM
In article <eLydnbeTycvIZ2fInZ2dnUU7-VmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>
> On 09/17/15 05:13, chrisv so wittily quipped:
> > Big Bad Bob wrote:
> >
> >> chrisv wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
> >>> there is no money for marketing.
> >>
> >> what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to MONETIZE
> >> open source operating systems...
> >
> > Obviously, the emerging business model is to give-away, or heavily
> > subsidize, the "product", and later make money from "app stores", ads,
> > and such.  FOSS does facilitate these businesses.
>
> very true, and it's why it has a BETTER chance of success, because I
> really think people are about to *REJECT* the idea, particularly with
> windows 10.
>
> For worldwide net stats, W10 is relatively flat in the ~6% range,
> despite being *FREE*, with a quick spike up front to about 5%, and most
> of that is 8.x users switching to 10.
>
> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-daily-20150801-20150917
>
> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-201531-201538
>
>
> and NOW it's leveling off, even going DOWN a bit...
>
>
> So that's Microsoft's attempt at marketing a FREE operating system (for
> now), which really is NOT free because of the adware and spyware
> embedded in it.  THAT and it stinks on ice because of the 2D look
> [instead of XP and 7's 3D skeumorphic look], the "start thing" with its
> alphabetized 'all apps(sic)' list, "the METRO" in general, FORCED
> updates for home users, yotta yotta.
>
> point being, FREE isn't the issue here.  USABILITY and SUPPORT are.
>
> And existing companies like RH *could* take advantage of that.

0
Anonymous
9/17/2015 5:53:43 PM
In article <P8mdnbL2RrA3aGfInZ2dnUU7-KOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>
> On 09/17/15 04:47, Chris Ahlstrom so wittily quipped:
> > the lack of success of Canonical, who did exactly what he wanted,
> > and still couldn't overcome the enormous infrastructure revolving
> > around Microsoft products and services.
>
> Canonical and Ubuntu miss the boat by making 'Unity' their flagship,
> daring to embed ads in the search [like microsoft's adware in W10], and
> so on.  I like ubu's cutting edge packages, but I don't like the
> defaults at *ALL* [gnome 3 and unity stink].  But switch to Mate, and
> everything seems ok.  VERY easy to work with.
>
> it might ALSO be worth pointing out that Linspire's big mistake was the
> use of subscriptions, something Microsoft seems to be moving TOWARDS...

0
Nomen
9/17/2015 6:03:37 PM
On 9/16/15, 11:33 PM, in article
YbGdnf8M05Eiw2fInZ2dnUU7-Q-dnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Big Bad Bob"
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> On 09/16/15 11:23, Anonymous so wittily quipped:
>> Linux Mint does a great job of most of these things, just needs
>> a bit more fine tuning.
> 
> and it doesn't look like gnome 3 or unity.
> 
>> Complicated consumes time and entertains, simple sells.
> 
> possibly, possibly not.  you can have BOTH, I think (both complex AND
> simple), by use of default and advanced configs.

I agree. You can even have it with tools that take you from the simple to
the complex. OS X is simple, but then it has Automator which is for more
advanced users and a full UNIX command line (which you can tie into
Automator). It allows both novice users and advanced users to be more
productive in many ways.

With that said, it is in places LACKING in what you describe, advanced
configs. I wish it had more of these.



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/17/2015 6:42:38 PM
On 09/17/15 05:33, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> On 9/17/2015 3:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>>>>
>>>>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>>>>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>>>>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>>>>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are
>>>>> gurus. Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
>>>
>>> Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.
>>>
>>>>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>>>>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>>>>
>>>> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'
>>
>>> And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
>>> laptops.
>>>
>>> "mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
>>> deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
>>> pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
>>> (though slightly less so these days) company.
>>>
>> Methinks the ignorance is owned by the linux zealots.
>> Bitching about evil M$ won't get desktop linux anywhere.
>> The linux "team(s)" need to use the same techniques proven by M$
>> if they want to invade the desktop market beyond the gurus and
>> hobbyists.  A fleet of 100 random distros rowing in all directions
>> is hardly a threat.
>> Yes, I know that you don't want to...but I do wish we had a viable
>> alternative to MS on the desktop.
>
> We have. Since years. And you can stuff your "fleet of 100 random distros".
> It is a bullshit argument, since at most around 10 distros are used for
> deneral desktop usage. The other distros are "special purpose" or distros
> for linux specialists
>
It is a valid argument dummy.
When your resources are scattered to the four winds you have nothing to 
use but your own windy Bullshit.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/18/2015 7:17:14 PM
On 09/17/15 05:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/17/2015 3:05 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>> Big Bad Bob wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/16/15 12:51, mike so wittily quipped:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I advocate ORGANIZED CHOICE with a common starting point
>>>>>> and STRUCTURED enhancements via GUI, click here to install this,
>>>>>> and a COMMON repository that's always evaluated and self-consistent.
>>>>>> PLUS full support for the current chaos for those who think they are
>>>>>> gurus. Nobody has to give up ANYTHING.
>>>>
>>>> Already provided by Ubuntu, and supported by a very wealthy man.
>>>>
>>>>>> Just add an option to the install menu, "Make it as hard as possible"
>>>>>> and the gurus will be unaffected.
>>>>>
>>>>> usually called 'custom install' or 'advanced settings'
>>>
>>>> And still unable to break into Microsoft's turf, consumer desktops and
>>>> laptops.
>>>>
>>>> "mike" is not only ill-informed and unwisely opinionated, but he is
>>>> deliberately ignoring that the PC market, unlike any other, is severely
>>>> pathological, and basically controlled by a powerful and unscrupulous
>>>> (though slightly less so these days) company.
>>>>
>>> Methinks the ignorance is owned by the linux zealots.
>>> Bitching about evil M$ won't get desktop linux anywhere.
>>> The linux "team(s)" need to use the same techniques proven by M$
>>> if they want to invade the desktop market beyond the gurus and
>>> hobbyists.  A fleet of 100 random distros rowing in all directions
>>> is hardly a threat.
>>> Yes, I know that you don't want to...but I do wish we had a viable
>>> alternative to MS on the desktop.
>>
>> We have. Since years. And you can stuff your "fleet of 100 random distros".
>> It is a bullshit argument, since at most around 10 distros are used for
>> deneral desktop usage. The other distros are "special purpose" or distros
>> for linux specialists
>
> "mike" is simply a troll, who lets facts go in one ear and out the other.
>
> As witness his total disregard of my argument concerning the lack of success
> of Canonical, who did exactly what he wanted, and still couldn't overcome
> the enormous infrastructure revolving around Microsoft products and
> services.
>
> He is an idiot.
>


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/18/2015 7:17:49 PM
>snip

This was one long thread.  What I don't understand is what makes people think
MS will change any of their ways?  MS will always try to control everything
no matter what.

EZoto


0
Euclides
9/19/2015 7:30:56 PM
On 09/19/15 12:30, Euclides Zoto so wittily quipped:
>> snip
> 
> This was one long thread.

with the crossposting, especially


> What I don't understand is what makes people think
> MS will change any of their ways?  MS will always try to control everything
> no matter what.

at times they realize how much it hurts their customer relationships
with "us customers" to act like big brother or 'the borg' and they
occasionally 'get it right' and do the RIGHT thing.  Or appear to.

but yeah.


0
Big
9/20/2015 10:20:19 PM
On 09/14/2015 04:19 PM, mike wrote:
> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

[...]

> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.

I do have at least one "gottahave" that keeps me using Windows for my 
personal use, and that's TurboTax.

I tried running it under WINE, and it almost installed, until it got to 
the part where it checked for .net.  Then it was an endless cycle of 
"fixing .net," reboot, get to the same point... rinse and repeat...

It turns out that WINE can only use .net 4.0.  Using the updater 
included with WINE to go to .net 4.5 ends up with M$ checking for an 
"authentic" Windows install, and WINE doesn't count as that.

I found and posted an article that said M$ had specifically targeted 
WINE to keep .net from running on it.

Using Windows apps means being locked into Windows, even when it is 
possible to run those apps on other OS.

0
Nobody
9/20/2015 10:37:04 PM
On 9/20/15, 3:37 PM, in article mtnceh$6lr$1@news.albasani.net, "Nobody"
<nobody@invalid.com> wrote:

>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
> 
> I do have at least one "gottahave" that keeps me using Windows for my
> personal use, and that's TurboTax.

It runs on OS X, too. I used to work for Intuit... pretty much same program
for either platform. But, sure, if that is your need for something other
than Linux than Windows will be much cheaper for that purpose.

> I tried running it under WINE, and it almost installed, until it got to
> the part where it checked for .net.  Then it was an endless cycle of
> "fixing .net," reboot, get to the same point... rinse and repeat...
> 
> It turns out that WINE can only use .net 4.0.  Using the updater
> included with WINE to go to .net 4.5 ends up with M$ checking for an
> "authentic" Windows install, and WINE doesn't count as that.
> 
> I found and posted an article that said M$ had specifically targeted
> WINE to keep .net from running on it.
> 
> Using Windows apps means being locked into Windows, even when it is
> possible to run those apps on other OS.

In this case I run TurboTax fine on another OS. But Linux has pretty limited
choices.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/20/2015 10:39:59 PM
On 9/20/2015 6:37 PM, Nobody wrote:
> On 09/14/2015 04:19 PM, mike wrote:
>> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>
> I do have at least one "gottahave" that keeps me using Windows for my
> personal use, and that's TurboTax.
>
> I tried running it under WINE, and it almost installed, until it got to
> the part where it checked for .net.  Then it was an endless cycle of
> "fixing .net," reboot, get to the same point... rinse and repeat...
>
> It turns out that WINE can only use .net 4.0.  Using the updater
> included with WINE to go to .net 4.5 ends up with M$ checking for an
> "authentic" Windows install, and WINE doesn't count as that.
>
> I found and posted an article that said M$ had specifically targeted
> WINE to keep .net from running on it.

Written by some lying Linux idiot, of course.

Why can't you find it again?



> Using Windows apps means being locked into Windows, even when it is
> possible to run those apps on other OS.

Poor NoBrains, always has to act the anti-MS idiot.  It's not MS's fault 
your crappy OS can't compete in the real world.


5 people say .NET 4.0 installs and runs fine on various Linux distros
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=17886

5 people say .NET 4.5 installs and runs fine on various Linux distros
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25478

What you meant to say was "Using Linux means settling for less choice in 
software".


0
DFS
9/20/2015 10:55:33 PM
In article <e72dnZGAOKOprGLInZ2dnUU7-KWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>
> On 09/19/15 12:30, Euclides Zoto so wittily quipped:
> >> snip
> >
> > This was one long thread.
>
> with the crossposting, especially
>

To unrelated groups too.

0
Douglas
9/20/2015 11:22:03 PM
On 9/16/2015 2:39 PM, mike wrote:
> On 9/16/2015 8:20 AM, chrisv wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>
>> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
>> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
>> that most do not.
>>
>> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
>> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>>
> I see that you're forcing YOUR choices onto others.

How did making an honest observation do that?

> Choice is only helpful if it's MY choice.

Who's keeping you from handing your money over to M$?
0
Nobody
9/21/2015 7:55:00 AM
On 9/14/2015 11:55 PM, mike wrote:
> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>
>>
>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>
>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>
>>
> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
> How about a little STANDARDIZATION with a side of STABILITY.
> Give poor joe average a chance to get started and start learning
> before you pull the rug out from under him with another distro
> or update to the current one that throws everything up in the air
> just for fun.

Use Ubuntu.  LTR only.  Ignore the rest.

Non-problem solved.

0
Nobody
9/21/2015 8:07:57 AM
Nobody wrote:

> On 9/16/2015 2:39 PM, mike wrote:
>> On 9/16/2015 8:20 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>> mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>>>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>>>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>>
>>> Many do, yes, but many only think they do.  MSO is a prominent example
>>> of software that many home users think that they need, but the fact is
>>> that most do not.
>>>
>>> Without a doubt, many more people could do just fine with GNU/Linux
>>> than what are using it today.  They just don't know it.
>>>
>> I see that you're forcing YOUR choices onto others.
> 
> How did making an honest observation do that?

Well, for those Hadrons it is "forcing choice onto others"  if you tell them 
that they *have* a choice. Can't have that

>> Choice is only helpful if it's MY choice.
> 
> Who's keeping you from handing your money over to M$?

You naturally. You tell him that he has a choice. Members of the "OSS 
culling committee" don't like it if people can chose something they haven't 
approved of

As he already wrote, choice is only good if it is *his* choice
0
Peter
9/21/2015 8:08:38 AM
mike wrote:

> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> 
>>
>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>
>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>
>>
> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.

Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you have 
always been.
And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying 
menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
0
Peter
9/21/2015 8:10:53 AM
On 09/20/2015 07:55 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 9/20/2015 6:37 PM, Nobody wrote:
>> On 09/14/2015 04:19 PM, mike wrote:
>>> On 9/14/2015 1:04 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:01:04 -0700, mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/14/2015 12:12 PM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:10:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 09/14/15 09:34, Snit so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>> On 9/14/15, 6:18 AM, in article mt6hcg$r1r$1@dont-email.me, "A.M"
>>>>>>>> <.m@nsn.s>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2015-09-13 2:26 PM, Nobody wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/15 01:56, Nobody so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/13/2015 12:48 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/15 15:46, Lehman so wittily quipped:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <mt294d$g0m$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> It only takes one "gottahave" to nix the exit to desktop linux.
>>> Most every windows desktop user has at least one "gottahave" that
>>> renders linux unacceptable FOR THEM.
>>
>> I do have at least one "gottahave" that keeps me using Windows for my
>> personal use, and that's TurboTax.
>>
>> I tried running it under WINE, and it almost installed, until it got to
>> the part where it checked for .net.  Then it was an endless cycle of
>> "fixing .net," reboot, get to the same point... rinse and repeat...
>>
>> It turns out that WINE can only use .net 4.0.  Using the updater
>> included with WINE to go to .net 4.5 ends up with M$ checking for an
>> "authentic" Windows install, and WINE doesn't count as that.
>>
>> I found and posted an article that said M$ had specifically targeted
>> WINE to keep .net from running on it.
>
> Written by some lying Linux idiot, of course.
>
> Why can't you find it again?
>
>
>
>> Using Windows apps means being locked into Windows, even when it is
>> possible to run those apps on other OS.
>
> Poor NoBrains, always has to act the anti-MS idiot.  It's not MS's fault
> your crappy OS can't compete in the real world.
>
>
> 5 people say .NET 4.0 installs and runs fine on various Linux distros
> https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=17886
>
> 5 people say .NET 4.5 installs and runs fine on various Linux distros
> https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25478
>
> What you meant to say was "Using Linux means settling for less choice in
> software".
>
  What he is saying is "M$ is acting like a gestapo squad"


0
sbd
9/21/2015 11:35:40 AM
On 09/21/15 02:10, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another good
>>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>>
>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>
>>>
>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>
> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you have
> always been.
> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"

Do you have proof that this is Hadron?

You're just guessing is all.

It also sounds like hadron is living rent-free in all the advocates 
heads too.  LOL!!!


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/21/2015 5:58:27 PM
GreyCloud wrote:

> On 09/21/15 02:10, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another
>>>> good
>>>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>>>
>>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>>>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>
>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>> have always been.
>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
> 
> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?

Do I need "proof"? 
Do I need proof to see that you are a demented senile old fool?
0
Peter
9/21/2015 6:41:39 PM
On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>> 
>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>> have always been.
>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>> 
>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
> 
> Do I need "proof"?

No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through baseless
and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I expect of you.

Comes down to you feel poorly about yourself and your knowledge so you lash
out against others. You do this time and time again. If you could gain some
technical skills and self confidence you would not demonstrate such
behavior.

> Do I need proof to see that you are a demented senile old fool?



-- 
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0
Snit
9/21/2015 8:41:10 PM
Snit wrote:

> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>>> have always been.
>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>> 
>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>> 
>> Do I need "proof"?
> 
> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through baseless
> and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I expect of
> you.

Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You know, 
that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and mangles 
qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is nothing 
honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of festering 
elephant dung
0
Peter
9/21/2015 8:45:59 PM
On 09/21/15 12:41, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> On 09/21/15 02:10, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>> mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>>>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another
>>>>> good
>>>>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>>>>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>
>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>> have always been.
>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>
>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>
> Do I need "proof"?
> Do I need proof to see that you are a demented senile old fool?

You are still guessing.  Which one could only conclude that you are a 
moron.   LOL!!!


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/21/2015 8:49:58 PM
On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter K�hlmann"
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>>>> have always been.
>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>> 
>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>> 
>>> Do I need "proof"?
>> 
>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through baseless
>> and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I expect of
>> you.
> 
> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You know,
> that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and mangles
> qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is nothing
> honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of festering
> elephant dung

Ah, yes, all these horrible things I do which you cannot show evidence for.

Or maybe you are just lashing out to deal with your poor self esteem, lack
of technical skills, and anger at having been shown to be so amazingly wrong
so often. 

Here is a good example of your idiocy to show... then maybe you can respond
by showing were I was equally wrong (and refused to admit it!)

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    I have a pretty good idea why you try to avoid sites like YouTube:
    They can be commented. And you fear the comments more than
    everything else
    -----

  Snit:
    -----
    You can block comments on YouTube.
    -----
    
  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    Really? Do you really think that your Firefox extension will still
    work? Why would YouTube allow to disable comments? They have
    activly disabled all extensions which tried to do that And the
    mere fact that you know about disabling comments (even if it does
    not work anymore) shows that you have tried to do just that.
    Because you can't stand having comments about your idiocy
    -----
    
Peter thinks a local Firefox extension could disable comments on a public
server (until YouTube "disabled" that ability), showing ignorance one might
expect from an octogenarian newbie. More detail here:
<http://youtu.be/iFFF_DQPgiI>. Note: comments are on. :)

Message-ID: mo9g7c$c25$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/Sux1iL>



And off you run, snipping and crying to your mommy because you have been
called out again. Good day!


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
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* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/21/2015 9:06:34 PM
On 2015-09-21 2:41 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> GreyCloud wrote:
> 
>> On 09/21/15 02:10, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>> mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>>>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another
>>>>> good
>>>>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform" and
>>>>> KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>
>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>> have always been.
>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>
>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
> 
> Do I need "proof"? 
> Do I need proof to see that you are a demented senile old fool?

Seriously Peter, you've been becoming a lot more fun to read in the past
few posts. Couldn't you have just said "no" and kept it going? We all
WANT to like you.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/21/2015 9:12:07 PM
GreyCloud wrote:

> On 09/21/15 12:41, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/21/15 02:10, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>> mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>>>>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>>>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform"
>>>>>> and KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>>>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>>>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>
>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>>> have always been.
>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>
>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>
>> Do I need "proof"?
>> Do I need proof to see that you are a demented senile old fool?
> 
> You are still guessing.  Which one could only conclude that you are a
> moron.   LOL!!!
> 

Guessing what? You provide enough evidence to prove that you are a senile 
old demented fool 

0
Peter
9/21/2015 9:14:53 PM
On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter K�hlmann"
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>>>> have always been.
>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>> 
>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>> 
>>> Do I need "proof"?
>> 
>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through baseless
>> and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I expect of
>> you.
> 
> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You know,
> that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and mangles
> qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is nothing
> honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of festering
> elephant dung

Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was when I showed
Windows 10 in Parallels needing three clicks in Tablet Mode to open Task
View when you have minimized Notepad.

Turns out the Parallels tech support was able to replicate it easily AND
people on MS's site talk about at least something similar without even using
Parallels:

<http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_desk
top/windows-10-tablet-mode-experience-is-much-worse/7bf4aafa-802a-4224-80d5-
7a7f2e5f52ee?auth=1> OR <http://goo.gl/7OWQJ9>
    -----
    In Tablet Mode, clicking with a mouse/trackpad on Task Bar buttons
    often does not register clicks, and need to be clicked 2/3 times
    before it register. Works fine with touch instead (it seems a bug
    with the "pop-up tooltip" when the mouse cursor pass by);
    -----

Once again your accusation comes from you being technologically incompetent.

Sad how you lash out with accusations when you have NO support at all.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
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* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/21/2015 11:46:06 PM
Snit wrote:

> On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as
>>>>>> you have always been.
>>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>>> 
>>>> Do I need "proof"?
>>> 
>>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through
>>> baseless and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I
>>> expect of you.
>> 
>> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You
>> know, that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and
>> mangles qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is
>> nothing honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of
>> festering elephant dung
> 
> Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was 

correct. You *have* doctored videos. Repeatedly

So no matter what you claim to "prove" with your videos, it is always to be 
viewed as extremely fishy and doctored, with a extremely high probability

*None* of your "evidence" can ever be trusted, because you are not 
trustworthy and known to be lying even if the truth would have served you 
better
0
Peter
9/22/2015 7:41:36 AM
On 9/22/15, 12:41 AM, in article mtr0jr$hfq$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as
>>>>>>> you have always been.
>>>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do I need "proof"?
>>>> 
>>>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through
>>>> baseless and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I
>>>> expect of you.
>>> 
>>> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You
>>> know, that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and
>>> mangles qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is
>>> nothing honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of
>>> festering elephant dung
>> 
>> Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was
> 
> correct. You *have* doctored videos. Repeatedly
> 
> So no matter what you claim to "prove" with your videos, it is always to be
> viewed as extremely fishy and doctored, with a extremely high probability
> 
> *None* of your "evidence" can ever be trusted, because you are not
> trustworthy and known to be lying even if the truth would have served you
> better



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
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* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
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* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/22/2015 12:41:58 PM
On 9/22/15, 12:41 AM, in article mtr0jr$hfq$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

....
>>> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You
>>> know, that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and
>>> mangles qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is
>>> nothing honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of
>>> festering elephant dung
>> 
>> Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was when I showed Windows
>> 10 in Parallels needing three clicks in Tablet Mode to open Task View when
>> you have minimized Notepad.
>> 
>> Turns out the Parallels tech support was able to replicate it easily AND
>> people on MS's site talk about at least something similar without even using
>> Parallels:
>> 
>> <http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-
>> insider_desktop/windows-10-tablet-mode-experience-is-much-worse/
>> 7bf4aafa-802a-4224-80d5-7a7f2e5f52ee?auth=1> OR
>> <http://goo.gl/7OWQJ9>
>>     -----
>>     In Tablet Mode, clicking with a mouse/trackpad on Task Bar buttons
>>     often does not register clicks, and need to be clicked 2/3 times
>>     before it register. Works fine with touch instead (it seems a bug
>>     with the "pop-up tooltip" when the mouse cursor pass by);
>>     -----
>> 
>> Once again your accusation comes from you being technologically incompetent.
>> 
>> Sad how you lash out with accusations when you have NO support at all.
> 
> correct. 

Once again, Peter, you have been bitten by whatever bug it is in your Linux
system that keeps snipping context. Or maybe it is you. Either way I did you
the favor of returning the context you removed.

In that context you can see where your most recent accusations were proved
false. I did not "doctor" videos - I showed Windows as it is in the
Parallels VM, and made it clear I used Parallels. More than that, I showed
you the bug I demonstrated, or at least one very similar to it, has been
found outside of the use of Parallels.

In other words: your accusation is nonsense.

> You *have* doctored videos. Repeatedly

Coming from your perspective, of one who cannot recognize KDE or Windows, I
am sure you are sincere. But your ignorance is no excuse for your
accusations. You are simply fabricating claims to try to deal with your own
insecurities and ignorance of technology.

I mean, really, you *are* completely clueless about technology. Here is just
one example:

  Peter K�hlmann <http://goo.gl/CcTIAO>:
    ----- 
    The apps with "Quit" do *not* exit, they continue to run
    in the background
    ----- 

You repeatedly post such nonsense. Then when called on it you attack those
who point out your errors instead of admitting to your errors.

> So no matter what you claim to "prove" with your videos, it is always to be
> viewed as extremely fishy and doctored, with a extremely high probability

By someone as ignorance and insecure as you, sure.

> *None* of your "evidence" can ever be trusted, because you are not
> trustworthy and known to be lying even if the truth would have served you
> better

By someone as ignorance and insecure as you, sure.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/22/2015 12:51:02 PM
On 9/22/15, 5:41 AM, in article D2269AA6.5CA7E%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 9/22/15, 12:41 AM, in article mtr0jr$hfq$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as
>>>>>>>> you have always been.
>>>>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do I need "proof"?
>>>>> 
>>>>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through
>>>>> baseless and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I
>>>>> expect of you.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You
>>>> know, that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and
>>>> mangles qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is
>>>> nothing honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of
>>>> festering elephant dung
>>> 
>>> Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was
>> 
>> correct. You *have* doctored videos. Repeatedly
>> 
>> So no matter what you claim to "prove" with your videos, it is always to be
>> viewed as extremely fishy and doctored, with a extremely high probability
>> 
>> *None* of your "evidence" can ever be trusted, because you are not
>> trustworthy and known to be lying even if the truth would have served you
>> better
> 
> 
Sorry for this post... hit "send" before I meant to.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/22/2015 1:35:15 PM
On 2015-09-22 3:41 AM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as
>>>>>>> you have always been.
>>>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I need "proof"?
>>>>
>>>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through
>>>> baseless and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I
>>>> expect of you.
>>>
>>> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You
>>> know, that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and
>>> mangles qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is
>>> nothing honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of
>>> festering elephant dung
>>
>> Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was 
> 
> correct. You *have* doctored videos. Repeatedly
> 
> So no matter what you claim to "prove" with your videos, it is always to be 
> viewed as extremely fishy and doctored, with a extremely high probability
> 
> *None* of your "evidence" can ever be trusted, because you are not 
> trustworthy and known to be lying even if the truth would have served you 
> better

Do you have evidence that they were doctored?

No, of course you don't. You never do.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/22/2015 1:59:03 PM
On 9/22/15, 6:59 AM, in article mtrmng$tp$2@dont-email.me, "A.M" <.m@nsn.s>
wrote:

> On 2015-09-22 3:41 AM, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>> Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/21/15, 1:45 PM, in article mtpq6j$2na$3@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/21/15, 11:41 AM, in article mtpite$4qa$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>>>>> K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as
>>>>>>>> you have always been.
>>>>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do I need "proof"?
>>>>> 
>>>>> No: you can continue to make a complete fool of yourself through
>>>>> baseless and unsupported accusations. In fact, that is exactly what I
>>>>> expect of you.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh, here comes the "honest" and "honorable" Snit Michael Glasser. You
>>>> know, that lying swine who is everything but "honest" or "honorable" and
>>>> mangles qutoes for his "proof". Or fakes videos. You name it. There is
>>>> nothing honest about you, and your "proof" is always just a giant pile of
>>>> festering elephant dung
>>> 
>>> Your most recent accusation of my doctoring a video was
>> 
>> correct. You *have* doctored videos. Repeatedly
>> 
>> So no matter what you claim to "prove" with your videos, it is always to be
>> viewed as extremely fishy and doctored, with a extremely high probability
>> 
>> *None* of your "evidence" can ever be trusted, because you are not
>> trustworthy and known to be lying even if the truth would have served you
>> better
> 
> Do you have evidence that they were doctored?
> 
> No, of course you don't. You never do.
> 

Hey, I have videos of File Explorer and MS Paint having Ribbons. Given how
Peter knows they have existed unchanged since Windows was released this is
not possible and my videos must be forged. :)

<https://youtu.be/HGGLxC4AwHg>

Yes, Peter is THAT lost about technology.

Really comes down to that: he is so ignorant about Linux and Windows and OS
X that any video he sees that does not fit his demented world view he
insists must be forged.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/22/2015 4:53:52 PM
On 9/13/2015 2:12 PM, Cola Zealot wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>
>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one serious
>>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when users
>>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>
>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said] this
>>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install over
>>>> and over again?
>>>>
>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>
>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>
>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>
>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>
>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a 3-6GB
>>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>
>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>
>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>
>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>> complete madness.
>>>>
>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>
>>>> What To Do
>>>>
>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>
>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows folder.
>>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>>> downloading it again!
>>>>
>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and will
>>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>
>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>
>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>
>>
>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>
> Me too, I installed / upgrade Win 10 on a few old boxes using the
> MediaCreationToolx64.exe
> The Win 10 Update, KB3035583, is an optional update, I've seen it
> because I have updates set to "Let me look at them first".
> I do not need KB3035583, so nothing was forced upon me.

It made the evening news that M$ is forcing downloads of Win10.  It 
comes down as a hidden file.  My local TV news station said the only way 
to avoid it is to disable automatic updates.   Of course that leaves 
your current OS vulnerable, something they neglected to mention.

0
Nobody
9/23/2015 12:00:30 AM
On 09/21/15 15:14, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> On 09/21/15 12:41, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/21/15 02:10, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>>> mike wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/14/2015 8:40 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yeah, too many socialist types making loud noises in the Linux
>>>>>>> community.  And yet, a LOT of true capitalists, who recognize that an
>>>>>>> occasional "co-op" effort is highly profitable!  OpenWRT is another
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>> example.  It helps the entire industry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is the kind of thing that could make Linux "the next platform"
>>>>>>> and KEEP it that way, indefinitely, giving people INFINITE choice
>>>>>>> possibilities, along with supported hardware, supported software, and
>>>>>>> all of the things that Windows does now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Desktop linux already has WAY too much CHOICE.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Hadron Msg-ID Larry. Good to see that you are still as stupid as you
>>>>> have always been.
>>>>> And naturally you are still a rabid hater of choice and card carrying
>>>>> menmber of the "OSS culling committee"
>>>>
>>>> Do you have proof that this is Hadron?
>>>
>>> Do I need "proof"?
>>> Do I need proof to see that you are a demented senile old fool?
>>
>> You are still guessing.  Which one could only conclude that you are a
>> moron.   LOL!!!
>>
>
> Guessing what?

You always guess.  That's your problem.

You provide enough evidence to prove that you are a senile
> old demented fool
>

Says the demented old turd.  LOL!!!


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/23/2015 12:43:09 AM
On 2015-09-22 8:00 PM, Nobody wrote:
> On 9/13/2015 2:12 PM, Cola Zealot wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>> serious
>>>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when
>>>>> users
>>>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>
>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>
>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>> this
>>>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install
>>>>> over
>>>>> and over again?
>>>>>
>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>
>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>> 3-6GB
>>>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>
>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize>  Folder Options>  View>  Show hidden
>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>
>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>
>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>
>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>>
>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>> folder.
>>>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>>>> downloading it again!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>> will
>>>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>
>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>>
>> Me too, I installed / upgrade Win 10 on a few old boxes using the
>> MediaCreationToolx64.exe
>> The Win 10 Update, KB3035583, is an optional update, I've seen it
>> because I have updates set to "Let me look at them first".
>> I do not need KB3035583, so nothing was forced upon me.
> 
> It made the evening news that M$ is forcing downloads of Win10.  It
> comes down as a hidden file.  My local TV news station said the only way
> to avoid it is to disable automatic updates.   Of course that leaves
> your current OS vulnerable, something they neglected to mention.

Except that that is not accurate. Disabling automatic updates doesn't
somehow make your system vulnerable since the updates still come. You
simply have to go through the process manually rather than trust
Microsoft to apply them for you. This is _not at all_ different than
what Linux does.


-- 
A.M
0
A
9/23/2015 1:51:51 PM
On 09/22/15 18:00, Nobody wrote:
> On 9/13/2015 2:12 PM, Cola Zealot wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:48:05 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/12/15 11:49, Jeremy Bentham wrote:
>>>>> The saga continues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Following news that Windows 10 automatically downloads onto Windows 7
>>>>> and Windows 8 for users who choose to upgrade,
>>>>> Microsoft MSFT +0.00% has now confirmed it has taken things one
>>>>> serious
>>>>> step further: Windows 10 will now download on computers even when
>>>>> users
>>>>> chose NOT to upgrade.
>>>>>
>>>>> This somewhat shocking development was discovered by The Inquirer when
>>>>> a reader reported Windows 10 had been downloaded onto their computer
>>>>> despite the fact they expressly declined the opportunity to upgrade:
>>>>>
>>>>> “The symptoms are repeated failed ‘Upgrade to Windows 10' in the WU
>>>>> update history and a huge 3.5GB to 6GB hidden folder labelled
>>>>> ‘$Windows.~BT’,” the reader explained. “I thought Microsoft [said]
>>>>> this
>>>>> ‘upgrade’ was optional. If so, why is it being pushed out to so many
>>>>> computers where it wasn’t reserved, and why does it try to install
>>>>> over
>>>>> and over again?
>>>>>
>>>>> He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered
>>>>> connections went over their data cap for August because of this
>>>>> unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week
>>>>> or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to
>>>>> it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the
>>>>> computer is booted.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft Confirms New Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Astonishingly this is not a one-off error. Speaking to The Inquirer,
>>>>> Microsoft confirmed this is now something they are doing to all
>>>>> computers running Windows 7 and Windows 8:
>>>>>
>>>>> “For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>> Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
>>>>> downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade. When the
>>>>> upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10
>>>>> on the device,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now let’s be clear here: with regards to Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>> “individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through
>>>>> Windows Update” is essentially everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> So unless you expressly chose to switch off all Windows updates (not
>>>>> recommended), you will be receiving (and have already received) a
>>>>> 3-6GB
>>>>> silent download. As The Inquirer reader points out, this can be found
>>>>> at: C:\$windows.~BT
>>>>>
>>>>> Note this is a hidden folder so to view it you need to open File
>>>>> Explorer and go to: Organize> Folder Options> View> Show hidden
>>>>> files, folders, and drives.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Fall Out
>>>>>
>>>>> So what to make of this? Quite frankly, while opinions remain divided
>>>>> over Windows 10’s forced updates, for Microsoft to presumptuously take
>>>>> a substantial chunk of every Windows 7 and Windows 8 user’s storage
>>>>> (and data allowance) downloading Windows 10 even if they specifically
>>>>> state they do not want to upgrade is a big step too far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I cannot see what Microsoft is trying to achieve here. When
>>>>> a user wants Windows 10 they will expect a large download to begin and
>>>>> there to be some waiting time. But Microsoft downloading Windows 10
>>>>> anyway just to skip this wait for users who don’t want Windows 10 is
>>>>> complete madness.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are your options…
>>>>>
>>>>> What To Do
>>>>>
>>>>> For those determined not to have their hard drive storage space and/or
>>>>> Internet data allowance wasted by Windows 10, the options are limited.
>>>>>
>>>>> The most drastic step is to disable Windows Update completely,
>>>>> but I would not recommend it as you are then trapped in a manual cycle
>>>>> of vetting every update to keep your computer update and secure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile the alternative for those who have already had Windows 10
>>>>> downloaded on their systems is simply to delete the C:\$windows
>>>>> folder.
>>>>> Then again Microsoft has not disclosed whether it will simply start
>>>>> downloading it again!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have reached out to Microsoft for further clarification here and
>>>>> will
>>>>> update the post when/if the company responds.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the meantime we are fast seeing Microsoft approach a dangerous
>>>>> crossing. It has already released updates on Windows 7 and Windows 8
>>>>> which add detailed user tracking akin to Windows 10 and now it is
>>>>> downloading Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers computers
>>>>> whether users want it or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft needs to be very careful. It took decades to build up user
>>>>> trust, but now it risks tearing everything down in just a few months…
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/12/microsoft-
>>>>> confirms-windows-10-now-forced-onto-windows-7-and-windows-8/
>>>>>
>>>> That's rather odd... I have win7 and it hasn't downloaded win10 yet.
>>>> Nor was it forced upon me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wasn't forced on any of my boxes either.
>>>
>> Me too, I installed / upgrade Win 10 on a few old boxes using the
>> MediaCreationToolx64.exe
>> The Win 10 Update, KB3035583, is an optional update, I've seen it
>> because I have updates set to "Let me look at them first".
>> I do not need KB3035583, so nothing was forced upon me.
>
> It made the evening news that M$ is forcing downloads of Win10. It comes
> down as a hidden file. My local TV news station said the only way to
> avoid it is to disable automatic updates. Of course that leaves your
> current OS vulnerable, something they neglected to mention.
>
No it doesn't.   I have automatic updates off, but I also have "I'll 
decide" on.  I've yet to get win10 forced on me.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/23/2015 6:22:50 PM
On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:22:50 -0600, GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>
wrote:

>No it doesn't.   I have automatic updates off, but I also have "I'll 
>decide" on.  I've yet to get win10 forced on me.

	OMG, that's dangerous. Microsoft warned us a year ago that the
reason people had to "upgrade" from XP was because of the updates.
Which are all security, I'm sure. How do you live without automatic
security updates ?
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012
0
Shadow
9/23/2015 8:46:58 PM
On 09/23/15 14:46, Shadow wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:22:50 -0600, GreyCloud<cumulus@mist.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No it doesn't.   I have automatic updates off, but I also have "I'll
>> decide" on.  I've yet to get win10 forced on me.
>
> 	OMG, that's dangerous. Microsoft warned us a year ago that the
> reason people had to "upgrade" from XP was because of the updates.
> Which are all security, I'm sure. How do you live without automatic
> security updates ?
> 	[]'s

Easy, I read what the updates are supposed to solve.  If they aren't 
security updates, I don't select them.   Quite easy.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."
0
GreyCloud
9/24/2015 10:04:28 PM
On 09/17/2015 12:37 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 09/17/15 05:13, chrisv so wittily quipped:
>> Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
>>>> there is no money for marketing.
>>>
>>> what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to MONETIZE
>>> open source operating systems...
>>
>> Obviously, the emerging business model is to give-away, or heavily
>> subsidize, the "product", and later make money from "app stores", ads,
>> and such.  FOSS does facilitate these businesses.
>
> very true, and it's why it has a BETTER chance of success, because I
> really think people are about to *REJECT* the idea, particularly with
> windows 10.
>
> For worldwide net stats, W10 is relatively flat in the ~6% range,
> despite being *FREE*, with a quick spike up front to about 5%, and most
> of that is 8.x users switching to 10.
>
> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-daily-20150801-20150917
>
> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-201531-201538
>
>
> and NOW it's leveling off, even going DOWN a bit...
>
>
> So that's Microsoft's attempt at marketing a FREE operating system (for
> now), which really is NOT free because of the adware and spyware
> embedded in it.

I haven't run into a problem with that yet.  I deleted the free games I 
downloaded from their store because the UI really stinks.   No way to 
restart the game, no way to go back to starting defaults, etc.

It is cool the way an installing app also shows up as an icon in the 
start menu list with a progress bar under it.

> THAT and it stinks on ice because of the 2D look
> [instead of XP and 7's 3D skeumorphic look],

It's funny how all the trolls who call Linux desktops "ugly" have been 
silent about that.

> the "start thing" with its
> alphabetized 'all apps(sic)' list,

Yes, it's a pain when you look for "Thunderbird" under "t" and it's not 
there, and you have to remember "MOZILLA Thunderbird," and look under 
"m."  Lots of cases like that.

> "the METRO" in general, FORCED
> updates for home users, yotta yotta.

Being secure, or at least the Windows definition of "secure," means 
having automatic updates always enabled.

> point being, FREE isn't the issue here.  USABILITY and SUPPORT are.
>
> And existing companies like RH *could* take advantage of that.

Indeed.

0
Nobody
9/26/2015 7:30:31 PM
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:30:31 -0500, Nobody wrote:

> On 09/17/2015 12:37 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 09/17/15 05:13, chrisv so wittily quipped:
>>> Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a two-edged sword - the product is free, but this means that
>>>>> there is no money for marketing.
>>>>
>>>> what to do about THAT then... *SOMEHOW* there can be a way to
>>>> MONETIZE open source operating systems...
>>>
>>> Obviously, the emerging business model is to give-away, or heavily
>>> subsidize, the "product", and later make money from "app stores", ads,
>>> and such.  FOSS does facilitate these businesses.
>>
>> very true, and it's why it has a BETTER chance of success, because I
>> really think people are about to *REJECT* the idea, particularly with
>> windows 10.
>>
>> For worldwide net stats, W10 is relatively flat in the ~6% range,
>> despite being *FREE*, with a quick spike up front to about 5%, and most
>> of that is 8.x users switching to 10.
>>
>> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-daily-20150801-20150917
>>
>> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-201531-201538
>>
>>
>> and NOW it's leveling off, even going DOWN a bit...
>>
>>
>> So that's Microsoft's attempt at marketing a FREE operating system (for
>> now), which really is NOT free because of the adware and spyware
>> embedded in it.
> 
> I haven't run into a problem with that yet.  I deleted the free games I
> downloaded from their store because the UI really stinks.   No way to
> restart the game, no way to go back to starting defaults, etc.
> 
I haven't deleted any games yet, but yeah, I noticed that too.  A little 
irritating huh? 

> It is cool the way an installing app also shows up as an icon in the
> start menu list with a progress bar under it.
> 
You may have noticed if you did an upgrade that some apps had to be re-
downloaded and had a little down-arrow icon in their tile too.

>> THAT and it stinks on ice because of the 2D look [instead of XP and 7's
>> 3D skeumorphic look],
> 
> It's funny how all the trolls who call Linux desktops "ugly" have been
> silent about that.
> 
>> the "start thing" with its alphabetized 'all apps(sic)' list,
> 
> Yes, it's a pain when you look for "Thunderbird" under "t" and it's not
> there, and you have to remember "MOZILLA Thunderbird," and look under
> "m."  Lots of cases like that.
> 
Yep, sure are.  But once I took some time to move some things to the 
'start tiles' and the taskbar I seldom go there any more.

>> "the METRO" in general, FORCED updates for home users, yotta yotta.
> 
> Being secure, or at least the Windows definition of "secure," means
> having automatic updates always enabled.
> 
The only problem is that sometimes MS screws up a update which can cause 
real issues.  Overall I've not had the issue and even had auto updates on 
in W8/W8.1 too.

>> point being, FREE isn't the issue here.  USABILITY and SUPPORT are.
>>
>> And existing companies like RH *could* take advantage of that.
> 
> Indeed.

I can't fault the 'desktop mode' much.  It works just fine for me.  I'm 
not at all enamored of the 'tablet mode' though.  Just too damned half-
assed to be really useful.  And I'm one that really liked the 'Modern UI' 
on my laptops/hybrids.

Wifi is still twitchy as hell.  Fixed for awhile, then an update which 
makes it twitchy again, followed by one to fix it ad nauseum!  :(




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/26/2015 9:01:28 PM
On 9/26/15, 2:01 PM, in article d6ofd8Fgql3U1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:

....
>>> So that's Microsoft's attempt at marketing a FREE operating system (for
>>> now), which really is NOT free because of the adware and spyware
>>> embedded in it.
>> 
>> I haven't run into a problem with that yet.  I deleted the free games I
>> downloaded from their store because the UI really stinks.   No way to
>> restart the game, no way to go back to starting defaults, etc.
>> 
> I haven't deleted any games yet, but yeah, I noticed that too.  A little
> irritating huh? 

I used to play the online versions of Backgammon and Checkers sometimes...
but those are gone unless I want to tie into their store. Not worth it to
me. Maybe at some point I will.

>> It is cool the way an installing app also shows up as an icon in the
>> start menu list with a progress bar under it.
>> 
> You may have noticed if you did an upgrade that some apps had to be re-
> downloaded and had a little down-arrow icon in their tile too.

Sounds similar to OS X and iOS. I assume Android does something similar,
too.
 
>>> THAT and it stinks on ice because of the 2D look [instead of XP and 7's
>>> 3D skeumorphic look],
>> 
>> It's funny how all the trolls who call Linux desktops "ugly" have been
>> silent about that.
>> 
>>> the "start thing" with its alphabetized 'all apps(sic)' list,
>> 
>> Yes, it's a pain when you look for "Thunderbird" under "t" and it's not
>> there, and you have to remember "MOZILLA Thunderbird," and look under
>> "m."  Lots of cases like that.
>> 
> Yep, sure are.  But once I took some time to move some things to the
> 'start tiles' and the taskbar I seldom go there any more.

Or just do a search for Thunderbird and it shows right up. I did turn off
the news and other things that show up when you just click search.

>>> "the METRO" in general, FORCED updates for home users, yotta yotta.
>> 
>> Being secure, or at least the Windows definition of "secure," means
>> having automatic updates always enabled.
>> 
> The only problem is that sometimes MS screws up a update which can cause
> real issues.  Overall I've not had the issue and even had auto updates on
> in W8/W8.1 too.

I have had them on for years with no significant complaints.

>>> point being, FREE isn't the issue here.  USABILITY and SUPPORT are.
>>> 
>>> And existing companies like RH *could* take advantage of that.
>> 
>> Indeed.
> 
> I can't fault the 'desktop mode' much.  It works just fine for me.

Mostly agree though I do not like the tiles in the Start menu. If you want
to add a lot of programs easier to have it as a list. They should have that
at least as an option (maybe they do - have only looked briefly).

> I'm not at all enamored of the 'tablet mode' though.  Just too damned half-
> assed to be really useful.  And I'm one that really liked the 'Modern UI' on
> my laptops/hybrids.

I have noted some areas where I think it can be improved, but overall I
think it seems OK. Then again I am using it on a desktop (and in a VM at
that) and not on an actual tablet. That could make a difference in how one
sees it!

> Wifi is still twitchy as hell.  Fixed for awhile, then an update which
> makes it twitchy again, followed by one to fix it ad nauseum!  :(

Is this common or specific to your hardware?



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

0
Snit
9/26/2015 9:51:51 PM
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:51:51 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 9/26/15, 2:01 PM, in article d6ofd8Fgql3U1@mid.individual.net, "Lloyd
> Parsons" <lloydp211@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Wifi is still twitchy as hell.  Fixed for awhile, then an update which
>> makes it twitchy again, followed by one to fix it ad nauseum!  :(
> 
> Is this common or specific to your hardware?

Fairly common from what I read.  And it has shown up on a Yoga 2 Pro, 
SurfacePro2 and HP AIO desktop at times.  Not always the same time 
though.  Every time I have the issue non-Windows boxes don't have a 
problem.




-- 
Lloyd
0
Lloyd
9/26/2015 10:03:57 PM
Reply:

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