You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .

Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/

More Apple "innovation!

Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either. 

OP wrote:

> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> 
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> 
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
> 
> More Apple "innovation!
> 
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.


Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
others that are coming out later this year.

Developer systems already out for this one:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-tablet-for-students/

"7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message 
news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> OP wrote:
>
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>>
>> More Apple "innovation!
>>
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>
>
> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
> others that are coming out later this year.
>
> Developer systems already out for this one:
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-tablet-for-students/

Wow!  You could buy six for the price of one iPad.  That's about right. 

On Mar 20, 2:47=A0pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > OP wrote:
>
> >> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>
> >> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>
> >>http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-conn..=
..
>
> >> More Apple "innovation!
>
> >> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>
> > Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
> > others that are coming out later this year.
>
> > Developer systems already out for this one:
> >http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-tablet...
>
> Wow! =A0You could buy six for the price of one iPad. =A0That's about righ=
t.

Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html

7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> writes:

> OP wrote:
>
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>> 
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>> 
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>> 
>> More Apple "innovation!
>> 
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>
> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
> others that are coming out later this year.

A zillion others. Yup. More half arsed crap with no fixed target to
leave Apple laughing all the way to the bank as the "community" ruptures
itself trying to support 2390249029039302 similar but not quite the same
alternative HW and SW combos. You're a fucking idiot 7.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:

> On Mar 20, 2:47 pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > OP wrote:
>>
>> >> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>
>> >> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>
>> >>http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
conn...
>>
>> >> More Apple "innovation!
>>
>> >> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>
>> > Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion others that
>> > are coming out later this year.
>>
>> > Developer systems already out for this one:
>> >http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-
tablet...
>>
>> Wow!  You could buy six for the price of one iPad.  That's about right.
> 
> Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html

Linux Based netbooks  presently 30%+ of the netbook market ...
<<http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/
Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst>

<http://www.itworld.com/channel/67382/netbook-market-share-grows>

.... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
<http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>


-- 
Rick

In comp.os.linux.advocacy Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> 7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> writes:
> 
>> OP wrote:
>>
>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>> 
>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>> 
>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>>> 
>>> More Apple "innovation!
>>> 
>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>
>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
>> others that are coming out later this year.
> 
> A zillion others. Yup. More half arsed crap with no fixed target to
> leave Apple laughing all the way to the bank as the "community" ruptures
> itself trying to support 2390249029039302 similar but not quite the same
> alternative HW and SW combos. You're a fucking idiot 7.

Given a choice, would you prefer to have, or not to have, USB on a
portable computer-like-thingie?

In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@supernews.com>,
 Rick <none@mail.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 20, 2:47 pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > OP wrote:
> >>
> >> >> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> >>
> >> >> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> >>
> >> >>http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
> conn...
> >>
> >> >> More Apple "innovation!
> >>
> >> >> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
> >>
> >> > Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion others that
> >> > are coming out later this year.
> >>
> >> > Developer systems already out for this one:
> >> >http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-
> tablet...
> >>
> >> Wow!  You could buy six for the price of one iPad.  That's about right.
> > 
> > Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....
> > 
> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html
> 
> Linux Based netbooks  presently 30%+ of the netbook market ...
> <<http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/
> Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst>
> 
> <http://www.itworld.com/channel/67382/netbook-market-share-grows>
> 
> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>

I'd have to agree.  I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and it is 
quite good.  If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on it 
again.

-- 
Lloyd

owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> writes:

> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> writes:
>> 
>>> OP wrote:
>>>
>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>> 
>>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>>>> 
>>>> More Apple "innovation!
>>>> 
>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>
>>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
>>> others that are coming out later this year.
>> 
>> A zillion others. Yup. More half arsed crap with no fixed target to
>> leave Apple laughing all the way to the bank as the "community" ruptures
>> itself trying to support 2390249029039302 similar but not quite the same
>> alternative HW and SW combos. You're a fucking idiot 7.
>
> Given a choice, would you prefer to have, or not to have, USB on a
> portable computer-like-thingie?

I would love to have a real USB port. Why do you ask? What the hell has
that to do with 7 being a dickhead and crowing about millions of
competing tablets?

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@supernews.com>,
>  Rick <none@mail.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 20, 2:47� pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OP wrote:
>>>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>>>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
>> conn...
>>>>>> More Apple "innovation!
>>>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion others that
>>>>> are coming out later this year.
>>>>> Developer systems already out for this one:
>>>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-
>> tablet...
>>>> Wow! � You could buy six for the price of one iPad. � That's about right.
>>> Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....
>>>
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html
>> Linux Based netbooks  presently 30%+ of the netbook market ...
>> <<http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/
>> Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst>
>>
>> <http://www.itworld.com/channel/67382/netbook-market-share-grows>
>>
>> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
>> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>
> 
> I'd have to agree.  I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and it is 
> quite good.  If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on it 
> again.
> 

win7 must be pretty bad.  What does Netflix need in order for it to run 
on Ubuntu?

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@supernews.com>,
>  Rick <none@mail.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 20, 2:47� pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OP wrote:
>>>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>>>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
>> conn...
>>>>>> More Apple "innovation!
>>>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion others that
>>>>> are coming out later this year.
>>>>> Developer systems already out for this one:
>>>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-
>> tablet...
>>>> Wow! � You could buy six for the price of one iPad. � That's about right.
>>> Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....
>>>
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html
>> Linux Based netbooks  presently 30%+ of the netbook market ...
>> <<http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/
>> Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst>
>>
>> <http://www.itworld.com/channel/67382/netbook-market-share-grows>
>>
>> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
>> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>
> 
> I'd have to agree.  I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and it is 
> quite good.  If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on it 
> again.
> 

I did some digging around... Netflix requires DirectX.
Someone on another site sent a letter to Netflix requesting a Linux 
version.  Not sure how that will fly.

In article <qOKdnZ3Z9aF52TjWnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@bresnan.com>,
 GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@supernews.com>,
> >  Rick <none@mail.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mar 20, 2:47� pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> OP wrote:
> >>>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> >>>>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> >>>>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
> >> conn...
> >>>>>> More Apple "innovation!
> >>>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
> >>>>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion others that
> >>>>> are coming out later this year.
> >>>>> Developer systems already out for this one:
> >>>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-
> >> tablet...
> >>>> Wow! � You could buy six for the price of one iPad. � That's about right.
> >>> Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....
> >>>
> >>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html
> >> Linux Based netbooks  presently 30%+ of the netbook market ...
> >> <<http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/
> >> Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst>
> >>
> >> <http://www.itworld.com/channel/67382/netbook-market-share-grows>
> >>
> >> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
> >> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>
> > 
> > I'd have to agree.  I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and it is 
> > quite good.  If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on it 
> > again.
> > 
> 
> I did some digging around... Netflix requires DirectX.
> Someone on another site sent a letter to Netflix requesting a Linux 
> version.  Not sure how that will fly.

It requires Silverlight and DRM.  Linux has the Moonlight project and 
has made some inroads, but so far no luck.

-- 
Lloyd

In article <ctKdnW0vQLhr3jjWnZ2dnUVZ_h6jnZ2d@bresnan.com>,
 GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@supernews.com>,
> >  Rick <none@mail.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mar 20, 2:47� pm, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> "7" <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> news:2m8pn.51976$Ym4.26054@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> OP wrote:
> >>>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> >>>>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> >>>>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
> >> conn...
> >>>>>> More Apple "innovation!
> >>>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
> >>>>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion others that
> >>>>> are coming out later this year.
> >>>>> Developer systems already out for this one:
> >>>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/marvell-teases-with-100-
> >> tablet...
> >>>> Wow! � You could buy six for the price of one iPad. � That's about right.
> >>> Yeah and they might repeat the success of Linux netbooks.....
> >>>
> >>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10239390-64.html
> >> Linux Based netbooks  presently 30%+ of the netbook market ...
> >> <<http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/
> >> Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst>
> >>
> >> <http://www.itworld.com/channel/67382/netbook-market-share-grows>
> >>
> >> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
> >> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>
> > 
> > I'd have to agree.  I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and it is 
> > quite good.  If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on it 
> > again.
> > 
> 
> win7 must be pretty bad.  What does Netflix need in order for it to run 
> on Ubuntu?

You need Silverlight and drm.  The Moonlight project is behind on 
version level with the current Silverlight, and doesn't do the DRM.  
There is ongoing work, but at the moment the luck isn't working well.

And no, W7 isn't so bad, in fact it is the best MS has done.  But 
online, windows is still windows and all the malware writers love to 
flock to it.

-- 
Lloyd

GreyCloud wrote:

> win7 must be pretty bad.  What does Netflix need in order for it to run 
> on Ubuntu?

DRM.

-- 
Enkidu

In comp.os.linux.advocacy Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> writes:
> 
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> OP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>>> 
>>>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>>>>> 
>>>>> More Apple "innovation!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>>
>>>> Then buy the Marvell Linux tablet along with a zillion
>>>> others that are coming out later this year.
>>> 
>>> A zillion others. Yup. More half arsed crap with no fixed target to
>>> leave Apple laughing all the way to the bank as the "community" ruptures
>>> itself trying to support 2390249029039302 similar but not quite the same
>>> alternative HW and SW combos. You're a fucking idiot 7.
>>
>> Given a choice, would you prefer to have, or not to have, USB on a
>> portable computer-like-thingie?
> 
> I would love to have a real USB port. Why do you ask?

Uh.. maybe the title of the thread, and 7's pointer to iPad alternatives
that *do* have USB ?  Do you *work* at this or what? 

> What the hell has
> that to do with 7 being a dickhead and crowing about millions of
> competing tablets?
> 

7's just having fun, like *most* of us here.  You need to lighten
up a little and stop taking this advocacy/anti-advocacy stuff so
seriously.  Damn, are you really as miserable as you come across?

In article <egy9a.w4t@rooftop.invalid>, owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

> Given a choice, would you prefer to have, or not to have, USB on a
> portable computer-like-thingie?


What other methods are available to communicate with said theoretical
computer-like-thingie?

Firewire?
Bluetooth?
Parallel printer port?
Ethernet?
WiFi?
Standard phone line?
Macintosh Infrared Communication Port?
Appletalk serial cable?
SCSI?
3.5 inch floppy disk?
5.25 inch floppy disk?
8 inch floppy disk?
Zip disk?
8 track tape player?
Syquest cartridge?
VCR tape used as network backup?
PunchCard?
Apple Desktop Bus?
Audio casette tape used as file storage?
Player piano spool?
Microfilm?
CR/DVD RW?
Cardbus?
Telegraph?
The proprietary connector used on some Garmin GPS?
Standard USB connector?
Mini USB connector?
Micro USB connector?


At some point in time, someone has to make a decision as to what data and
communication formats a particular device is going to be compatible with. 
You can't make it backward compatible with everything that has ever been
on the market.  My cell phone does bluetooth, and connects to the cell
phone network, and that's it.  The computer connector is proprietary and
supposedly only for "qualified technicians" to do "service" on the phone.

One of the problems with USB with this type of device is: if you have USB,
do you consider this the powered device, or the connected-to device?  For
example, if you connect your digital camera to the iPad to transfer
photos, you probably expect the iPad to be the source of USB power. 
However, if you connect the iPad to a laptop or desktop by USB, then you
are expecting the larger computer to be the source of USB power.

I'm not necessarily saying it is the right choice, but there are certainly
some conflict problems that are resolved by going to entirely wireless
communications for such a device.

-- 
-Glennl
Please note this e-mail address is a pit of spam, and most e-mail sent to this address are simply lost in the vast mess.

In article <gl4317-2103100004290001@69-30-9-146.pxd.easystreet.com>,
<gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What other methods are available to communicate with said theoretical
> computer-like-thingie?
> 
> Parallel printer port?
> 5.25 inch floppy disk?
> 8 inch floppy disk?
> Zip disk?
> 8 track tape player?
> PunchCard?
> Player piano spool?

wait just a minute. the ipad can't use any of that? 

what were they thinking???

nospam wrote:
> <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> What other methods are available to communicate with said theoretical
>> computer-like-thingie?
>>
>> Parallel printer port?
>> 5.25 inch floppy disk?
>> 8 inch floppy disk?
>> Zip disk?
>> 8 track tape player?
>> PunchCard?
>> Player piano spool?
> 
> wait just a minute. the ipad can't use any of that? 
> what were they thinking???

So an xphone instead.

xphone doesn't have a printer port, either, but it doesn't need one.

PITA to have to carry around a separate player piano, though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlxr8t1nZM

-- 
Wes Groleau

   "Ideas are more powerful than guns,
    We would not let our enemies have guns;
    why should we let them have ideas?"
                                -- Jozef Stalin

In article <ho4idl$72l$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Wes Groleau
<Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> > wait just a minute. the ipad can't use any of that? 
> > what were they thinking???
> 
> So an xphone instead.
> 
> xphone doesn't have a printer port, either, but it doesn't need one.
> 
> PITA to have to carry around a separate player piano, though!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlxr8t1nZM

since it can make toast, i'm willing to compromise on the player piano
rolls.

On Mar 20, 9:10=A0am, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-conn...
>
> More Apple "innovation!
>
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.

802.11n will be good enough for me. One less cable to futz with.

Mr X wrote:

> On Mar 20, 9:10 am, "OP" <Otto.Phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-conn...
>>
>> More Apple "innovation!
>>
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
> 
> 802.11n will be good enough for me. One less cable to futz with.


Hacked in seconds.

In article <2s6pn.16369$3D3.4199@newsfe19.iad>,
 "OP" <Otto.Philips@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> 
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> 
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-ki
> t/
> 
> More Apple "innovation!
> 
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either. 

USB is a master slave system (unlike peer to peer Firewire). Since a Mac 
or a Windows box is (via iTunes) the master to an iPad as a slave, why 
should an iPad also be a USB master? That is against the original USB 
spec. The iPad would also be required to supply either 100mA (or by 
negotiation) 500mA to the slave, which can be a pain on a low capacity 
battery. Seems like Apple are treating the camera connection kit as a 
special case (probably as USB Mass Storage device).

I am hoping that the iPad can handle an EyeFi camera memory card via 
WiFi (and I am also hope that some year, EyeFi cards are actually 
available for sale in Australia).

In article <210320100017588350%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <gl4317-2103100004290001@69-30-9-146.pxd.easystreet.com>,
> <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > What other methods are available to communicate with said theoretical
> > computer-like-thingie?
> > 
> > Parallel printer port?
> > 5.25 inch floppy disk?
> > 8 inch floppy disk?
> > Zip disk?
> > 8 track tape player?
> > PunchCard?
> > Player piano spool?
> 
> wait just a minute. the ipad can't use any of that? 
> 
> what were they thinking???


I actually once had an "interesting experience" with a "portable
computer-like-thingie" that used 8 inch floppy disks.  I believe it was a
Wang computer, and was considered "portable" because even though it
weighed some 150 pounds, you could unplug it from the wall and roll it
from building to building on the convenient four casters that were built
into it.

-- 
-Glennl
Please note this e-mail address is a pit of spam, and most e-mail sent to this address are simply lost in the vast mess.

In article <gl4317-2103101109090001@69-30-9-182.pxd.easystreet.com>,
<gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I actually once had an "interesting experience" with a "portable
> computer-like-thingie" that used 8 inch floppy disks.  I believe it was a
> Wang computer, and was considered "portable" because even though it
> weighed some 150 pounds, you could unplug it from the wall and roll it
> from building to building on the convenient four casters that were built
> into it.

apple's first portable, the mac portable, was 16 pounds. it was a
decent mac, but had the wrong name.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <210320100017588350%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> In article <gl4317-2103100004290001@69-30-9-146.pxd.easystreet.com>,
>> <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > What other methods are available to communicate with said theoretical
>> > computer-like-thingie?
>> > 
>> > Parallel printer port?
>> > 5.25 inch floppy disk?
>> > 8 inch floppy disk?
>> > Zip disk?
>> > 8 track tape player?
>> > PunchCard?
>> > Player piano spool?
>> 
>> wait just a minute. the ipad can't use any of that? 
>> 
>> what were they thinking???
> 
> 
> I actually once had an "interesting experience" with a "portable
> computer-like-thingie" that used 8 inch floppy disks.  I believe it was a
> Wang computer, and was considered "portable" because even though it
> weighed some 150 pounds, you could unplug it from the wall and roll it
> from building to building on the convenient four casters that were built
> into it.
> 

Sounds like my Octane III.

On 3/20/2010 5:18 PM, owl wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>  wrote:


>> What the hell has
>> that to do with 7 being a dickhead and crowing about millions of
>> competing tablets?
>>
>
> 7's just having fun, like *most* of us here.  You need to lighten
> up a little and stop taking this advocacy/anti-advocacy stuff so
> seriously.  Damn, are you really as miserable as you come across?


So your clownish answers really are meant to be clownish...it looked 
that way to me...

In comp.os.linux.advocacy DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
> On 3/20/2010 5:18 PM, owl wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>> What the hell has
>>> that to do with 7 being a dickhead and crowing about millions of
>>> competing tablets?
>>>
>>
>> 7's just having fun, like *most* of us here.  You need to lighten
>> up a little and stop taking this advocacy/anti-advocacy stuff so
>> seriously.  Damn, are you really as miserable as you come across?
> 
> 
> So your clownish answers really are meant to be clownish...it looked 
> that way to me...
> 

PKB

On 2010-03-21, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> In article <egy9a.w4t@rooftop.invalid>, owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Given a choice, would you prefer to have, or not to have, USB on a
>> portable computer-like-thingie?
>
>
> What other methods are available to communicate with said theoretical
> computer-like-thingie?
>
> Firewire?
> Bluetooth?
> Parallel printer port?
> Ethernet?
> WiFi?

   Standard networking would also be good.

   There are a number of well developed and robust protocols that a device
of this kind could use in order to tie itself into the rest of the content
that someone might have. A nifty tablet that's closed is like being all
dolled up with no place to go.

   The cult must perpetuate the idea that anything but a closed device
where your best option is to pay Steve for everything is the only thing
that "normal" people will ever be able to handle.

   Nevermind that whole "Macintosh" thing.

[deletia]

-- 
    ...of course if you are forced against your will to use Windows in    |||
the day time your bound to have a lot to vent about in the evening.      / | \

On 2010-03-21, Eric <eric@ericlindsay.com> wrote:
>
>
> In article <2s6pn.16369$3D3.4199@newsfe19.iad>,
>  "OP" <Otto.Philips@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>> 
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>> 
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-ki
>> t/
>> 
>> More Apple "innovation!
>> 
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either. 
>
> USB is a master slave system (unlike peer to peer Firewire). Since a Mac 
> or a Windows box is (via iTunes) the master to an iPad as a slave, why 
> should an iPad also be a USB master? That is against the original USB 
> spec. The iPad would also be required to supply either 100mA (or by 

    So the thing has different hardware that allows it to be one or the
other. It's hardly rocket science. Of course the reason to have a proper
USB port would be so that you don't have to have it tethered to a "real
computer" and can get content on and off of it without the need to go
through your iTunes account.

    They're talking up the office productivity apps yet don't have any
intention of allowing the device the sort of storage options that any
other device running similar apps would be expected to have.

> negotiation) 500mA to the slave, which can be a pain on a low capacity 
> battery. Seems like Apple are treating the camera connection kit as a 
> special case (probably as USB Mass Storage device).
>
> I am hoping that the iPad can handle an EyeFi camera memory card via 
> WiFi (and I am also hope that some year, EyeFi cards are actually 
> available for sale in Australia).


-- 
    ...of course if you are forced against your will to use Windows in    |||
the day time your bound to have a lot to vent about in the evening.      / | \

In article <slrnhqdo6o.48s.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

>    Standard networking would also be good.
> 
>    There are a number of well developed and robust protocols that a device
> of this kind could use in order to tie itself into the rest of the content
> that someone might have. A nifty tablet that's closed is like being all
> dolled up with no place to go.

good thing that it has standard networking then.

>    The cult must perpetuate the idea that anything but a closed device
> where your best option is to pay Steve for everything is the only thing
> that "normal" people will ever be able to handle.

there's no requirement to pay steve anything (other than the initial
purchase) to use it.

In article <slrnhqdofm.48s.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> > USB is a master slave system (unlike peer to peer Firewire). Since a Mac 
> > or a Windows box is (via iTunes) the master to an iPad as a slave, why 
> > should an iPad also be a USB master? That is against the original USB 
> > spec. The iPad would also be required to supply either 100mA (or by 
> 
>     So the thing has different hardware that allows it to be one or the
> other.

which is additional cost. loading it up with all possible features is a
recipe for disaster.

> It's hardly rocket science. Of course the reason to have a proper
> USB port would be so that you don't have to have it tethered to a "real
> computer" and can get content on and off of it without the need to go
> through your iTunes account.

you don't have to have it tethered and can easily get content onto and
off of it.

nospam wrote:

> In article <slrnhqdo6o.48s.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
> <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
> 
>>    Standard networking would also be good.
>> 
>>    There are a number of well developed and robust protocols that a
>>    device
>> of this kind could use in order to tie itself into the rest of the
>> content that someone might have. A nifty tablet that's closed is like
>> being all dolled up with no place to go.
> 
> good thing that it has standard networking then.
> 
>>    The cult must perpetuate the idea that anything but a closed device
>> where your best option is to pay Steve for everything is the only thing
>> that "normal" people will ever be able to handle.
> 
> there's no requirement to pay steve anything (other than the initial
> purchase) to use it.

Naturally not. The (apple controlled) apps are all free. And the DRM 
content also will cost nothing

You are a worthy member of your cargo cult
-- 
Support your local Search and Rescue unit -- get lost.

In article <ho78oi$c1n$02$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> > there's no requirement to pay steve anything (other than the initial
> > purchase) to use it.
> 
> Naturally not. The (apple controlled) apps are all free.

some are, some aren't. there's no requirement to use any of them.

> And the DRM content also will cost nothing

the music hasn't had drm for quite a while. do keep up.

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:210320102124351389%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <slrnhqdofm.48s.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
> <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> > USB is a master slave system (unlike peer to peer Firewire). Since a 
>> > Mac
>> > or a Windows box is (via iTunes) the master to an iPad as a slave, why
>> > should an iPad also be a USB master? That is against the original USB
>> > spec. The iPad would also be required to supply either 100mA (or by
>>
>>     So the thing has different hardware that allows it to be one or the
>> other.
>
> which is additional cost. loading it up with all possible features is a
> recipe for disaster.

Additional cost?  How much additionl cost on existing ten cent components 
and mature technology?

>
>> It's hardly rocket science. Of course the reason to have a proper
>> USB port would be so that you don't have to have it tethered to a "real
>> computer" and can get content on and off of it without the need to go
>> through your iTunes account.
>
> you don't have to have it tethered and can easily get content onto and
> off of it.

So a deficiency is considered to be good to you? 

On 2010-03-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <slrnhqdofm.48s.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> > USB is a master slave system (unlike peer to peer Firewire). Since a Mac 
>> > or a Windows box is (via iTunes) the master to an iPad as a slave, why 
>> > should an iPad also be a USB master? That is against the original USB 
>> > spec. The iPad would also be required to supply either 100mA (or by 
>> 
>>     So the thing has different hardware that allows it to be one or the
>> other.
>
> which is additional cost. loading it up with all possible features is a
> recipe for disaster.

    Another nice example of "the cult has announced a new messiah therefore
will will all shout down the old messiah and claim that he could never have
been our messiah in the first place" (macintosh).

    The cult will make any excuse for the abuse (and being trapped).

>
>> It's hardly rocket science. Of course the reason to have a proper
>> USB port would be so that you don't have to have it tethered to a "real
>> computer" and can get content on and off of it without the need to go
>> through your iTunes account.
>
> you don't have to have it tethered and can easily get content onto and
> off of it.

   Obvious lie.

-- 
    ...of course if you are forced against your will to use Windows in    |||
the day time your bound to have a lot to vent about in the evening.      / | \

Mocassin joe wrote:

> "nospam" wrote:
>>
>> which is additional cost. loading it up with all possible features is a
>> recipe for disaster.
> 
> Additional cost?  How much additionl cost on existing ten cent components 
> and mature technology?

"Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.

OP wrote:
> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> 

Oh noes, neither do any of the iPods which I and most of the entire world
own! @_@

> 
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>

Which is why the 1998 iMac had USB ports instead of ADB and no floppy drive.

-- 
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and Macintosh
computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/

In article <pan.2010.03.22.16.10.10.772538@nospam.invalid>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.

if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.

nospam wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
>> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
>
>if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
>money,

LOL

If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".

Idiot.

>regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced.

Yes, it is.

>in fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.

Did you forget the word "some" in front of the word "people", Apple
fanboi?

Like many other Apple products, the "cost to purchase" is subsidized
by expected sales of applications and media.

I recently bought a Dell Linux netbook with a 1.6GHz Atom processor
for $240.  Oh, and it has USB ports (and an SD-card slot).

In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> I recently bought a Dell Linux netbook with a 1.6GHz Atom processor
> for $240.  Oh, and it has USB ports (and an SD-card slot).

great. what does that have to do with an ipad? 

the fact that you think the ipad is some sort of netbook replacement is
why you don't understand that the lack of usb ports makes no difference
in how a typical user will be using the device.

nospam wrote:

>the fact that you think the ipad is some sort of netbook replacement

Idiot.  I think no such thing.  

I was merely pointing-out that USB ports are quite affordable, on even
the cost-sensitive products like netbooks, much less the
premium-priced iPad.

In article <2rbfq5h8ta7ufvur32rddr7qu8id8sm1pn@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> I was merely pointing-out that USB ports are quite affordable, on even
> the cost-sensitive products like netbooks, much less the
> premium-priced iPad.

different product, different use. just because a netbook has a
particular thing doesn't mean an ipad must also have it.

nospam wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>
>> I was merely pointing-out that USB ports are quite affordable, on even
>> the cost-sensitive products like netbooks, much less the
>> premium-priced iPad.
>
>different product, different use. just because a netbook has a
>particular thing doesn't mean an ipad must also have it.

USB ports would be "good to have" on the iPad.  Stop apologizing for
Apple's customer-hostile designs.

In article <qndfq5lk9tb6fj5c9eug2ndnb5ohnfref8@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> USB ports would be "good to have" on the iPad.  

why?

it's not an issue for the ipod touch, and after all, isn't the ipad
just a big ipod touch?

nospam wrote:

> why?

Idiot.

In article <pan.2010.03.22.19.03.33.159838@nospam.invalid>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > why?
> 
> Idiot.

in other words, there's no reason for separate usb ports. 

that's why it's not there.

On 10-03-20 12:10 , OP wrote:
> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>
> More Apple "innovation!
>
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.

Just another screwup in the iPad design.  The Apple Kool-Aid goes:

"Since this is something like (but completely different than) the 
iPhone, it doesn't need a USB port.  But, you can connect one separately 
with an adaptor.  You see, the iPad is not a computer even though it is 
one.  This (non-computer) does run applications like a computer such as 
iWork and other Apps to be sold to you via the Apps store.  You can also 
DL media from the iTunes store.  .FVL is evil because this is not a 
computer, even though it is one when we want it to be, just not when 
we're trying to explain its shortcomings."

You shall not speak against the iPad nor St-Jobs:

http://www.cultofmac.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/jobs_economist_cover.jpg


-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 10-03-22 12:10 , chrisv wrote:

> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.

You cannot say such things.  It upsets the Kool-Aid drinkers.

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 2010-03-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <pan.2010.03.22.16.10.10.772538@nospam.invalid>, chrisv
><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
>> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
>
> if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of

    Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.

    Clearly they think that there is some value in allowing their users
to have access to USB type devices to a very limited degree.

    Of course they derive some benefit from directing you through their
own proprietary interface.

> money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
> fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.


-- 
    ...of course if you are forced against your will to use Windows in    |||
the day time your bound to have a lot to vent about in the evening.      / | \

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:pan.2010.03.22.16.10.10.772538@nospam.invalid...
> Mocassin joe wrote:
>
>> "nospam" wrote:
>>>
>>> which is additional cost. loading it up with all possible features is a
>>> recipe for disaster.
>>
>> Additional cost?  How much additionl cost on existing ten cent components
>> and mature technology?
>
> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
>
In fact, it doesn't even have Firewire. 

nospam wrote:

> if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
> money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
> fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.

I suspect Apple has had internal debates about this.

Since just about every device has its own proprietary cable between
itself and a standard "master" USB port, the proprietary USB cable
between the ipad and a computer is no different. At least, it is
supposed to be compatible with the proprietary cables used between
ipods/iphones and computers.

A ipad user wanting to download camera/GPS data to an ipad would need a
proprietary cable between his device and any computer anyways. So the
fact that you need a little dongle/adaptor to create standard master USB
port via the proprietary ipod connector on the ipad doesn't really add
much since you can simply have that dongle left attached to the camera's
cable. So when you need to connect camera to iapd duringa trip, you pull
out that cable and plug it between your camera and ipad.

Yeah, having a "real" master USB port on the ipad would be nice. But the
availability of an adaptor doing the same does fulfill the functionality
that is needed, albeit costlier and a bit less convenient.

"D Finnigan" <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote in message 
news:dog_cow-1269275723@macgui.com...
> OP wrote:
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>
>
> Oh noes, neither do any of the iPods which I and most of the entire world
> own! @_@

So you are claiming it's a big  iPod and not revolutionary and magical and 
you and the rest of the world have no need for USB ports.

>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>
>
> Which is why the 1998 iMac had USB ports instead of ADB and no floppy 
> drive.

So we are now going back in time.

In article <slrnhqfjto.mgc.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.

it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.

>     Clearly they think that there is some value in allowing their users
> to have access to USB type devices to a very limited degree.

some might want it, but not all will. that's why it's an accessory and
not built in.

>     Of course they derive some benefit from directing you through their
> own proprietary interface.

you mean the standard ipod dock connector that's been around for 7
years and for which there are zillions of third party devices
available?

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:

> In article <slrnhqfjto.mgc.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
> <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
>
> it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.
>
>>     Clearly they think that there is some value in allowing their users
>> to have access to USB type devices to a very limited degree.
>
> some might want it, but not all will. that's why it's an accessory and
> not built in.
>
>>     Of course they derive some benefit from directing you through their
>> own proprietary interface.
>
> you mean the standard ipod dock connector that's been around for 7
> years and for which there are zillions of third party devices
> available?

jed doesnt understand that a single HW target and single OS makes for
better applications and more return for the developers which results in
more and better QA and more redevelopment and more ... Oh. You get
it. Jed doesn't. Jed thinks Doom II is cutting edge and it takes 2 guys
a week or two to make a modern game for the PC.

In short, Jed is an idiots idiot.

On 10-03-22 13:39 , nospam wrote:
> In article<pan.2010.03.22.16.10.10.772538@nospam.invalid>, chrisv
> <chrisv@nospam.invalid>  wrote:
>
>> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
>> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
>
> if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
> money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
> fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.

You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.  I 
agree the price is agreeably lower than I expected.  The factory cost of 
adding 1 or 2 USB ports to the edge of the device is probably less than 
$2.00 all in - call it $6.00 marked up.  That beats dependence on and 
adaptor many times over.

The first time someone has a USB drive with a file on it that needs to 
go on the iPad (or v-v) and the adaptor is not around, the howls of 
derision will begin.

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

In article <b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
> >> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
> >
> > if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
> > money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
> > fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.
> 
> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports. 

neither do you.

i bet apple has a very good idea of typical usage patterns and has
sales and other data from existing products, both theirs and from
competitors, to back it up.

> I agree the price is agreeably lower than I expected.  The factory cost of 
> adding 1 or 2 USB ports to the edge of the device is probably less than 
> $2.00 all in - call it $6.00 marked up.  That beats dependence on and 
> adaptor many times over.

assuming that's true, if they sell 10 million ipads in a year, that's
$20 million in additional cost since they're not going to sell it for
$505 versus $499 to make up for the cost, not to mention the costs for
software support in iphone os.

> The first time someone has a USB drive with a file on it that needs to 
> go on the iPad (or v-v) and the adaptor is not around, the howls of 
> derision will begin.

they haven't howled all that much for usb ports on the ipod touch. 

or just get one of these: <http://www.airstash.com/>

In message <5bRpn.17017$3D3.15408@newsfe19.iad> 
  Mocassin <joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:

> "D Finnigan" <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote in message 
> news:dog_cow-1269275723@macgui.com...
>> OP wrote:
>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>
>>
>> Oh noes, neither do any of the iPods which I and most of the entire world
>> own! @_@

> So you are claiming it's a big  iPod and not revolutionary and magical and 
> you and the rest of the world have no need for USB ports.

>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>
>>
>> Which is why the 1998 iMac had USB ports instead of ADB and no floppy 
>> drive.

> So we are now going back in time.

Every single new mac since the iMac has had USB ports and no floppy
drive.



-- 
It's Tchaikovsky's 'Another One Bites the Dust',\" said Crowley, closing his
eyes as they went through Slough.

"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message 
news:4ba7deef$0$24358$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> nospam wrote:
>
>> if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
>> money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
>> fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.
>
> I suspect Apple has had internal debates about this.
>
> Since just about every device has its own proprietary cable between
> itself and a standard "master" USB port, the proprietary USB cable
> between the ipad and a computer is no different. At least, it is
> supposed to be compatible with the proprietary cables used between
> ipods/iphones and computers.
>
> A ipad user wanting to download camera/GPS data to an ipad would need a
> proprietary cable between his device and any computer anyways. So the
> fact that you need a little dongle/adaptor to create standard master USB
> port via the proprietary ipod connector on the ipad doesn't really add
> much since you can simply have that dongle left attached to the camera's
> cable. So when you need to connect camera to iapd duringa trip, you pull
> out that cable and plug it between your camera and ipad.

Junk like that usually winds up lost.


> Yeah, having a "real" master USB port on the ipad would be nice. But the
> availability of an adaptor doing the same does fulfill the functionality
> that is needed, albeit costlier and a bit less convenient.
> 

"Lewis" <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in message 
news:slrnhqfs9h.2tpm.g.kreme@cerebus.local...
> In message <5bRpn.17017$3D3.15408@newsfe19.iad>
>  Mocassin <joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> "D Finnigan" <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote in message
>> news:dog_cow-1269275723@macgui.com...
>>> OP wrote:
>>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh noes, neither do any of the iPods which I and most of the entire 
>>> world
>>> own! @_@
>
>> So you are claiming it's a big  iPod and not revolutionary and magical 
>> and
>> you and the rest of the world have no need for USB ports.
>
>>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which is why the 1998 iMac had USB ports instead of ADB and no floppy
>>> drive.
>
>> So we are now going back in time.
>
> Every single new mac since the iMac has had USB ports and no floppy
> drive.

I know. We are speaking about the iPad not having USB ports or Firewire.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:10:50 -0400, OP wrote:

> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> 
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> 
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
connection-kit/
> 
> More Apple "innovation!
> 
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.

I read this recently, forget where:

iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:42:13 -0500, Wintrolls Lie wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:10:50 -0400, OP wrote:
> 
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>> 
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>> 
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
> connection-kit/
>> 
>> More Apple "innovation!
>> 
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
> 
> I read this recently, forget where:
> 
> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!

I dunno.
I think the jury is really out on this one but my gut feeling is
that this is not going to be an iPod or iPhone.

I've been wrong before though :)

Wintrolls Lie <wintrolls.lie@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:10:50 -0400, OP wrote:
>
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>> 
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>> 
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
> connection-kit/
>> 
>> More Apple "innovation!
>> 
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>
> I read this recently, forget where:
>
> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!

Probably on your master's windows/apple hate site.

It's not even remotely funny. And the obvious comparison because of size
and it being a hand held unit is simply cretinous.

Mocassin joe wrote:
>> cable. So when you need to connect camera to iapd duringa trip, you pull
>> out that cable and plug it between your camera and ipad.
> 
> Junk like that usually winds up lost.

My anecdotal evidence contradicts.  My two sons are good at losing 
things, but somehow they managed to keep track of the cables for their 
cameras and iPods for months.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   Worksheet for “Central American Migrants” Video
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/russell?itemid=1009

Wintrolls Lie wrote:
> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!

Yes, and Ohio Art no doubt will be out of business within
a year of releasing that ridiculously limited piece of crap!

What?  They've been selling it for fifty years?  OK, but
you know their market share has to be less than fifty percent!

-- 
Wes Groleau

   Worksheet for “Central American Migrants” Video
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/russell?itemid=1009

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:12:01 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:

> Wintrolls Lie wrote:
>> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!
> 
> Yes, and Ohio Art no doubt will be out of business within
> a year of releasing that ridiculously limited piece of crap!
> 
> What?  They've been selling it for fifty years?  OK, but
> you know their market share has to be less than fifty percent!

And while Ohio Art is still making a fortune off of Etch A Sketch,
Linux, despite being free, can't even be given away.

Sad.....

In article <b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.

Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
just your half-assed opinion.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:50:57 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 3/22/2010 8:19 PM, Moshe wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:12:01 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>
>>> Wintrolls Lie wrote:
>>>> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!
>>>
>>> Yes, and Ohio Art no doubt will be out of business within
>>> a year of releasing that ridiculously limited piece of crap!
>>>
>>> What?  They've been selling it for fifty years?  OK, but
>>> you know their market share has to be less than fifty percent!
>>
>> And while Ohio Art is still making a fortune off of Etch A Sketch,
>> Linux, despite being free, can't even be given away.
>>
>> Sad.....
> 
> 
> Use Windows 7 for a while, then go back to a Gnome-based Linux distro 
> and you can see why.

Funny you should mention that because I just did that.

I've been running Windows 7 since beta days and it totally rocks,
completely for 64bit stuff.
It does what Vista, for me, never did.

I just installed Fedora 12 to see what the fuss is.
What a piece of crap.
Looks like shit.
Performs like shit.

Can't even mange to fix a 12 month old bug in ALSA.
Ardour doesn't work.
Jack doesn't work.
Can't access my other machines.
Can't access my printer on a WinXP shared machine.
Looks horrible.

What a let down.

On 3/22/2010 8:19 PM, Moshe wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:12:01 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:
>
>> Wintrolls Lie wrote:
>>> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!
>>
>> Yes, and Ohio Art no doubt will be out of business within
>> a year of releasing that ridiculously limited piece of crap!
>>
>> What?  They've been selling it for fifty years?  OK, but
>> you know their market share has to be less than fifty percent!
>
> And while Ohio Art is still making a fortune off of Etch A Sketch,
> Linux, despite being free, can't even be given away.
>
> Sad.....


Use Windows 7 for a while, then go back to a Gnome-based Linux distro 
and you can see why.

In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".


What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the slave
device?

If it were a master, then it could have such things as cameras connected
to it, but then the USB protocals wouldn't allow it to be connected to a
computer, unless the computer had a slave controller in it.

If it were a slave, then you would be able to connect it to a computer,
but not to a camera.

Unfortunately USB doesn't allow for any other type of device - it must be
either a slave device or a master.

So, if you are going to have a USB port, which type of device controller
should it get?

-- 
-Glennl
Please note this e-mail address is a pit of spam, and most e-mail sent to this address are simply lost in the vast mess.

On 3/20/2010 12:10 PM, OP wrote:
> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/
>
> More Apple "innovation!
>
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>
>

Why bother with USB?  With USB 3.0 not due to be implemented in Intel 
chipsets until next year (2011), and Intel developing Light Peak,  I 
think its probably a more prudent move for Apple to hold off a tad 
longer, and possibly go with a Light Peak interface for iPads 
requiring ultra high speed I/O bandwidth down the road.



-- 
Harry

Harry Mudd wrote:

> On 3/20/2010 12:10 PM, OP wrote:
>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>
>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>
>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
connection-kit/
>>
>> More Apple "innovation!
>>
>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>
>>
> 
> Why bother with USB?  With USB 3.0 not due to be implemented in Intel
> chipsets until next year (2011), and Intel developing Light Peak,  I
> think its probably a more prudent move for Apple to hold off a tad
> longer, and possibly go with a Light Peak interface for iPads
> requiring ultra high speed I/O bandwidth down the road.
> 

What has USB3 to do with things?
USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad

What the fanboiz don't want to admit is that apple deliberately chose to 
screw their customers by closing that thingy as much as possible.

After all, their cargo cult members will defend every move of apple, no 
matter how much it will cost them down the road
-- 
Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad

good thing it has usb 2 then.

> What the fanboiz don't want to admit is that apple deliberately chose to 
> screw their customers by closing that thingy as much as possible.

quite the opposite, actually.

> After all, their cargo cult members will defend every move of apple, no 
> matter how much it will cost them down the road

no, they just correct idiotic bullshit.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:

> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>
> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>
>> What the fanboiz don't want to admit is that apple deliberately chose to 
>> screw their customers by closing that thingy as much as possible.
>
> quite the opposite, actually.
>
>> After all, their cargo cult members will defend every move of apple, no 
>> matter how much it will cost them down the road
>
> no, they just correct idiotic bullshit.

A COLA regular recently posed the question : "when was Koehlmann last right
about anything technical?". It seemed no one could quite pick a time
when he was right about anything. He just spews hate and vitriol.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
> 
> good thing it has usb 2 then.

Actually, no, it does not
You need an additional Connection Kit for that

Just stop this outright lying, it just shows how desperate you fanboiz are

>> What the fanboiz don't want to admit is that apple deliberately chose
>> to screw their customers by closing that thingy as much as possible.
> 
> quite the opposite, actually.

Well, cargo cult members will never admit how much they like to be screwed
 
>> After all, their cargo cult members will defend every move of apple, no
>> matter how much it will cost them down the road
> 
> no, they just correct idiotic bullshit.

Since you chose to simply lie, there was not much left "corrected"
-- 
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice which can be equally well
explained by stupidity

In article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
> > 
> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
> 
> Actually, no, it does not

actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
well as charge it.

> You need an additional Connection Kit for that

nope.

> Just stop this outright lying, it just shows how desperate you fanboiz are

i'm not the one who is lying.

On 3/21/10 11:15 PM, "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

>    Standard networking would also be good.
> 
>    There are a number of well developed and robust protocols that a device
> of this kind could use in order to tie itself into the rest of the content
> that someone might have. A nifty tablet that's closed is like being all
> dolled up with no place to go.

WiFI is standard networking. That is precisely what the 802.11 series of
standards is for.

On 3/22/10 2:30 PM, "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> USB ports would be "good to have" on the iPad.  Stop apologizing for
> Apple's customer-hostile designs.
> 

I agree but that doesn't make the tradeoffs good. It is not just the small
amount of additional circuitry needed to be a USB master. The biggest factor
is likely to be power. Many of the USB devices people would like to connect
are bus-powered, like USB hard drives. Cameras are generally self-powered so
the camera interface works. I am not willing to trade off battery life or
larger batteries to connect a USB hard drive.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>> > 
>> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
>> 
>> Actually, no, it does not
> 
> actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
> into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
> well as charge it.
>

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/

>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
> 
> nope.

Quit lying
 
>> Just stop this outright lying, it just shows how desperate you fanboiz
>> are
> 
> i'm not the one who is lying.

Oh, but you are.
-- 
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, For thou art crunchy, and good
with ketchup!

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:19:51 -0400, Moshe wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:12:01 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
>> Wintrolls Lie wrote:
>>> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!
>> 
>> Yes, and Ohio Art no doubt will be out of business within a year of
>> releasing that ridiculously limited piece of crap!
>> 
>> What?  They've been selling it for fifty years?  OK, but you know their
>> market share has to be less than fifty percent!
> 
> And while Ohio Art is still making a fortune off of Etch A Sketch,
> Linux, despite being free, can't even be given away.

Why do you continue to lie? It's so..
> Sad.....

-- 
Rick

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:55:22 -0400, Moshe wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:50:57 -0500, DFS wrote:
> 
>> On 3/22/2010 8:19 PM, Moshe wrote:
>>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:12:01 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wintrolls Lie wrote:
>>>>> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and Ohio Art no doubt will be out of business within a year of
>>>> releasing that ridiculously limited piece of crap!
>>>>
>>>> What?  They've been selling it for fifty years?  OK, but you know
>>>> their market share has to be less than fifty percent!
>>>
>>> And while Ohio Art is still making a fortune off of Etch A Sketch,
>>> Linux, despite being free, can't even be given away.
>>>
>>> Sad.....
>> 
>> 
>> Use Windows 7 for a while, then go back to a Gnome-based Linux distro
>> and you can see why.
> 
> Funny you should mention that because I just did that.
> 
> I've been running Windows 7 since beta days and it totally rocks,
> completely for 64bit stuff.
> It does what Vista, for me, never did.
> 
> I just installed Fedora 12 to see what the fuss is. What a piece of
> crap.
> Looks like shit.
> Performs like shit.

Why didn't you stick with Pardus, since your friend is so happy with it?

> 
> Can't even mange to fix a 12 month old bug in ALSA. Ardour doesn't work.
> Jack doesn't work.
> Can't access my other machines.
> Can't access my printer on a WinXP shared machine. Looks horrible.
> 
> What a let down.

As oppose to your previous comments:
"I think open document standards are a good idea......

BTW I agree that giving the Linux laptops away to students is an 
excellent idea."


-- 
Rick

Robert Haar wrote:

> On 3/22/10 2:30 PM, "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> USB ports would be "good to have" on the iPad.  Stop apologizing for
>> Apple's customer-hostile designs.
>> 
> 
> I agree but that doesn't make the tradeoffs good. It is not just the
> small amount of additional circuitry needed to be a USB master. The
> biggest factor is likely to be power. Many of the USB devices people
> would like to connect are bus-powered, like USB hard drives. Cameras are
> generally self-powered so the camera interface works. I am not willing
> to trade off battery life or larger batteries to connect a USB hard
> drive.

More rather dumb apologies from the fanbois

Actually, what you are "not willing to trade off" ois irrelevant, as you 
are not forced to connect anything.
Other people might think differently, and who are you to say they should 
not?

Your cargo cult really does not spare us any idiocy to defend apples 
screwing its customers
-- 
Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

DFS pulled this Usenet boner:

> On 3/22/2010 8:19 PM, Moshe wrote:
>
> <repeated nonsense snipped>
>
> Use Windows 7 for a while, then go back to a Gnome-based Linux distro 
> and you can see why.

I completely prefer Linux over Win 7, though with a Fluxbox window manager.

Going from Linux to Win 7 is like taking a bicycle from pavement to beach
sand.

-- 
The secret source of humor is not joy but sorrow; there is no humor in Heaven.
		-- Mark Twain

D.F. Manno pulled this Usenet boner:

> In article <b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
>
> Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
> groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
> just your half-assed opinion.

Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?

-- 
Your reasoning powers are good, and you are a fairly good planner.

gl4317@yahoo.com pulled this Usenet boner:

> In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>
> What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the slave
> device?
>
> If it were a master, then it could have such things as cameras connected
> to it, but then the USB protocals wouldn't allow it to be connected to a
> computer, unless the computer had a slave controller in it.
>
> If it were a slave, then you would be able to connect it to a computer,
> but not to a camera.
>
> Unfortunately USB doesn't allow for any other type of device - it must be
> either a slave device or a master.
>
> So, if you are going to have a USB port, which type of device controller
> should it get?

Many devices allow you to pick the mode.

In any case, you're making it overly complex.  USB thumb drives are
omnipresent.

Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> > In article <hoa408$f29$0...@news.t-online.com>, Peter K=F6hlmann
> > <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> >> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>
> >> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
>
> >> Actually, no, it does not
>
> > actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
> > into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
> > well as charge it.
>
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html

Which admits that it has a USB-to-Dock Connector cable.


> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/

Which makes the same mistake as seen elsewhere on this thread:  if
there is to be a USB port, is it to be a slave (so that it can
synchronize with its host iTunes computer) or a master (for which it
then must supply bus power)?

Essentially, there's nothing magical regarding most forms of data that
it can't be resolved by going wireless.   The problem (and paradigm)
is that the traditional forms of peripherals ... external HDDs,
printers, etc ... have been wired with USB for years now, and the only
one that has jumped ... and so far, only halfway ... have been
printers.

FWIW, I was very much intrigued by that "wireless USB" adaptor that
someone posted (in this thread?) recently.  Wish I could find the post
to get its name.



> >> Just stop this outright lying, it just shows how desperate you fanboiz
> >> are
>
> > i'm not the one who is lying.
>
> Oh, but you are.

Well then child, here's the deal:  you're right in that it doesn't
have a literally TRADITIONAL "master" based USB port.  However, that
doesn't mean that it has zero I/O capabilities.


-hh

In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
> >> > 
> >> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
> >> 
> >> Actually, no, it does not
> > 
> > actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
> > into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
> > well as charge it.
>
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
> 
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/

those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
of not particularly accurate criticisms). 

the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?

look at apple's specs, where it very clearly states that it has usb:
<http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/>

In the box
   -  iPad
   -  Dock Connector to USB Cable
   -  10W USB Power Adapter

Mac system requirements
   -  Mac computer with USB 2.0 port
Windows system requirements
   -  PC with USB 2.0 port

In article <hoa7mf$ot4$12@news.eternal-september.org>, Chris Ahlstrom
<ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:

> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
> > just your half-assed opinion.
> 
> Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?

why does it matter where they do the research?

In article
<4bb226b7-622a-4ddd-b765-41940aec27bd@z4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, -hh
<recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> FWIW, I was very much intrigued by that "wireless USB" adaptor that
> someone posted (in this thread?) recently.  Wish I could find the post
> to get its name.

<http://www.airstash.com/>

In article <hoa7js$ou8$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Your cargo cult really does not spare us any idiocy to defend apples 
> screwing its customers

they're not being screwed at all, and they're more than capable of
deciding if a particular product meets their needs. they're generally
extremely satisfied (changewave surveys) with their choice. 

if an ipad doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it. why do you care if
someone else buys one and is happy with it?

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:19:46 -0700, nospam wrote:

> In article <hoa7mf$ot4$12@news.eternal-september.org>, Chris Ahlstrom
> <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> 
>> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with
>> > focus groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand,
>> > have just your half-assed opinion.
>> 
>> Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?
> 
> why does it matter where they do the research?

Because the "where", the "who" and the "how" can introduce bias into the 
study.

For instance, using a focus group made up of water color artists probably 
won't give results of how digital artists might use USB ports. 

-- 
Rick

"Wes Groleau" <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote in message 
news:ho944k$5eb$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Mocassin joe wrote:
>>> cable. So when you need to connect camera to iapd duringa trip, you pull
>>> out that cable and plug it between your camera and ipad.
>>
>> Junk like that usually winds up lost.
>
> My anecdotal evidence contradicts.  My two sons are good at losing things, 
> but somehow they managed to keep track of the cables for their cameras and 
> iPods for months.

And my MIL and SIL lost theirs in weeks. 

"D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote in message 
news:dfmanno-4206A7.21474922032010@news.albasani.net...
> In article <b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
>
> Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus
> groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have
> just your half-assed opinion.

Not really, Lord Jobs makes those decisions.  That's why no Flash, USB, SD 
Card reader or Firewire for the iPa/od. 

"Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:gdgl77-dqr.ln1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Wintrolls Lie <wintrolls.lie@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:10:50 -0400, OP wrote:
>>
>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>
>>> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
>>>
>>> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-
>> connection-kit/
>>>
>>> More Apple "innovation!
>>>
>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>
>> I read this recently, forget where:
>>
>> iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!
>
> Probably on your master's windows/apple hate site.
>
> It's not even remotely funny. And the obvious comparison because of size
> and it being a hand held unit is simply cretinous.

It kinda looks like an Etch-A-Sketch, but it's really a BIG ASSED iPOD.

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:230320100418297640%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> >> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>> >> >
>> >> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
>> >>
>> >> Actually, no, it does not
>> >
>> > actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
>> > into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
>> > well as charge it.
>>
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/
>
> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
> of not particularly accurate criticisms).
>
> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
>
> look at apple's specs, where it very clearly states that it has usb:


No, it doesn't "clearly state that it has usb". It doesn't state that 
anywhere. It's stupid to lie to further a spurious arguement.



> <http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/>
>
> In the box
>   -  iPad
>   -  Dock Connector to USB Cable
>   -  10W USB Power Adapter
>
> Mac system requirements
>   -  Mac computer with USB 2.0 port
> Windows system requirements
>   -  PC with USB 2.0 port 

In article <Qv2qn.97571$K81.8505@newsfe18.iad>, Mocassin joe
<joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:

> > look at apple's specs, where it very clearly states that it has usb:
> 
> No, it doesn't "clearly state that it has usb". It doesn't state that 
> anywhere. It's stupid to lie to further a spurious arguement.

apparently you cannot read.

> > <http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/>
> >
> > In the box
> >   -  iPad
> >   -  Dock Connector to USB Cable
> >   -  10W USB Power Adapter
> >
> > Mac system requirements
> >   -  Mac computer with USB 2.0 port
> > Windows system requirements
> >   -  PC with USB 2.0 port

On 2010-03-20 16:10:50 +0000, OP said:

> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
> 
> Buy one here for an additional $29 bucks.
> 
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit/

More 
> 
> Apple "innovation!
> 
> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.

i know what fucking faggots

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>  -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> > FWIW, I was very much intrigued by that "wireless USB" adaptor that
> > someone posted (in this thread?) recently. =A0Wish I could find the pos=
t
> > to get its name.
>
> <http://www.airstash.com/>


Ah, there it is.  Thanks!



-hh

nospam wrote:

> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
>>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
>
>it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.

That is *not* the definition of "overpriced" you fscking *idiot".  

You *seriously* think that if a product sells unit one, that it's not
"overpriced"?  You don't think people ever cough-up the money for
"overpriced" products, especially when the available products that
meet their needs are artificially restricted?

Sheesh!

>>     Clearly they think that there is some value in allowing their users
>> to have access to USB type devices to a very limited degree.
>
>some might want it, but not all will. that's why it's an accessory and
>not built in.

God damn,you are stupid.  "Every single user will want to use this" is
*not* the criteria for including a feature.  Face it, USB devices are
useful and ubiquitous.

Sheesh!

>>     Of course they derive some benefit from directing you through their
>> own proprietary interface.
>
>you mean the standard ipod dock connector that's been around for 7
>years and for which there are zillions of third party devices
>available?

And Apple charges companies how much of a licensing fee to make
devices that connect to their proprietary interface?

Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> gl4...@yahoo.com pulled this Usenet boner:
> > chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>
> > What type of USB device should it be? =A0The master controller or the s=
lave
> > device?
>
> > If it were a master, then it could have such things as cameras connecte=
d
> > to it, but then the USB protocals wouldn't allow it to be connected to =
a
> > computer, unless the computer had a slave controller in it.
>
> > If it were a slave, then you would be able to connect it to a computer,
> > but not to a camera.
>
> > Unfortunately USB doesn't allow for any other type of device - it must =
be
> > either a slave device or a master.
>
> > So, if you are going to have a USB port, which type of device controlle=
r
> > should it get?
>
> Many devices allow you to pick the mode.

Okay, but does this variation still only cost proverbially 3 cents to
add?

And what other trades does it potentially entail on the system
configuration, design and UI?


> In any case, you're making it overly complex. =A0USB thumb drives are
> omnipresent.

So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.



-hh

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:230320100531373295%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <Qv2qn.97571$K81.8505@newsfe18.iad>, Mocassin joe
> <joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> > look at apple's specs, where it very clearly states that it has usb:
>>
>> No, it doesn't "clearly state that it has usb". It doesn't state that
>> anywhere. It's stupid to lie to further a spurious arguement.
>
> apparently you cannot read.
>
>> > <http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/>
>> >
>> > In the box
>> >   -  iPad
>> >   -  Dock Connector to USB Cable
>> >   -  10W USB Power Adapter
>> >
>> > Mac system requirements
>> >   -  Mac computer with USB 2.0 port
>> > Windows system requirements
>> >   -  PC with USB 2.0 port

By repeating yourself nothing changes.  No USB port. 

nospam wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>> 
>> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports. 
>
>neither do you.

Idiot.

>i bet apple has a very good idea of typical usage patterns and has
>sales and other data from existing products, both theirs and from
>competitors, to back it up.

I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits by
constraining their customers in various ways.

>> I agree the price is agreeably lower than I expected.  The factory cost of 
>> adding 1 or 2 USB ports to the edge of the device is probably less than 
>> $2.00 all in - call it $6.00 marked up.  That beats dependence on and 
>> adaptor many times over.
>
>assuming that's true, if they sell 10 million ipads in a year, that's
>$20 million in additional cost since they're not going to sell it for
>$505 versus $499 to make up for the cost, not to mention the costs for
>software support in iphone os.

Idiot.  Do you think that $499 is some kind of magical perfect price?
Oh, wait, *just maybe* it just happens to be that nice, round $500
price (-1, of course, to get that all-so-popular in the retail world
pricing of X99).

*They could easily absorb that cost, you freaking idiot.*

Sheesh!

nospam wrote:

>In article <hoa7mf$ot4$12@news.eternal-september.org>, Chris Ahlstrom
><ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>
>> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
>> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
>> > just your half-assed opinion.
>> 
>> Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?
>
>why does it matter where they do the research?

Because asking idiot fanbois like you skews the research, *obviously*.

Sheesh!

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6mhhq51k4k4e0h86gubh5ccriojpg5g37i@4ax.com...

STFU you stupid useless scumbag.

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message 
news:4c49f7ee-811b-4fc7-bddb-a51ca43c9f19@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> gl4...@yahoo.com pulled this Usenet boner:
> > chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>
> > What type of USB device should it be? The master controller or the slave
> > device?
>
> > If it were a master, then it could have such things as cameras connected
> > to it, but then the USB protocals wouldn't allow it to be connected to a
> > computer, unless the computer had a slave controller in it.
>
> > If it were a slave, then you would be able to connect it to a computer,
> > but not to a camera.
>
> > Unfortunately USB doesn't allow for any other type of device - it must 
> > be
> > either a slave device or a master.
>
> > So, if you are going to have a USB port, which type of device controller
> > should it get?
>
> Many devices allow you to pick the mode.

Okay, but does this variation still only cost proverbially 3 cents to
add?

And what other trades does it potentially entail on the system
configuration, design and UI?


> In any case, you're making it overly complex. USB thumb drives are
> omnipresent.

So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.

Yes, and by that convoluted reasoning there isn't justification to add a USB 
port to my fishing reel.  Your really stretching on this.

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> > Alan Browne wrote:
>
> >> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
>
> >neither do you.
>
> Idiot.

(Oh, how so highly convincing)


>
> >i bet apple has a very good idea of typical usage patterns and has
> >sales and other data from existing products, both theirs and from
> >competitors, to back it up.
>
> I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits by
> constraining their customers in various ways.

Of course.  However, that's not anything unique to Apple, or any other
business.   As such, don't expect this (cough) profound observation
(cough) of your's to make the 11 o'clock news.


> >> I agree the price is agreeably lower than I expected. =A0The factory c=
ost of
> >> adding 1 or 2 USB ports to the edge of the device is probably less tha=
n
> >> $2.00 all in - call it $6.00 marked up. =A0That beats dependence on an=
d
> >> adaptor many times over.
>
> >assuming that's true, if they sell 10 million ipads in a year, that's
> >$20 million in additional cost since they're not going to sell it for
> >$505 versus $499 to make up for the cost, not to mention the costs for
> >software support in iphone os.
>
> Idiot. =A0Do you think that $499 is some kind of magical perfect price?
> Oh, wait, *just maybe* it just happens to be that nice, round $500
> price (-1, of course, to get that all-so-popular in the retail world
> pricing of X99).

There's reams of marketing research that illustrates the power of the
"just under X" price phychology when it comes to consumer demand and
their elasticity.   Here's a start on a primer for you:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand>


> *They could easily absorb that cost, you freaking idiot.*
>
> Sheesh!

Just like GM, and so many others bailout recipients?

If its so trivial to make money, then why don't you help out by
offering to pay for the difference?
Yes, the $6 (or whatever) lost opportunity on every unit sold.

While you're at it, you can perhaps explain to us all this corporate
strategy you're suggesting, namely of:

"We lose money on every sale, but we make it up on volume".



-hh

-hh pulled this Usenet boner:

> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>
>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. �USB thumb drives are
>> omnipresent.
>
> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.

Ay yi yi.  No use conversing on this topic any further.

-- 
Exercise caution in your daily affairs.

On 2010-03-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <slrnhqfjto.mgc.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
>
> it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.

   That's a real gem. Someone should really frame that one.

[deletia]

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \

On 2010-03-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
><alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> >> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
>> >> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
>> >
>> > if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
>> > money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
>> > fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.
>> 
>> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports. 
>
> neither do you.

....sure he does. He probably sees how people use other devices.

The fact that Apple chooses to make/sell a keyboard for the device clearly
demonstrates it should have a USB port to support HID devices if nothing
else.

Apple's current keyboards suck. Being forced to use theirs will suck.

[deletia]

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \

On 2010-03-23, D.F. Manno <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote:
>
>
> In article <b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
>
> Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
> groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
> just your half-assed opinion.

    Yes... whatever you do you must not question the leaders of the cult.

    You must not question the men in the white coats or tall hats.

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \

On 2010-03-23, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>
>
> What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the slave
> device?

    Use an A port to turn it into slave and a B port to turn it into a master.

    Rocket science it is not.

[deletia]

    Although the only reason to even turn this thing into a slave device
is this walled garden nonsense. Make it a proper machine with open access
and the need to treat this thing like an oversized ipod goes away.

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \

On 2010-03-23, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>
> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>> gl4...@yahoo.com pulled this Usenet boner:
>> > chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>>
>> > What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the slave
>> > device?
>>
>> > If it were a master, then it could have such things as cameras connected
>> > to it, but then the USB protocals wouldn't allow it to be connected to a
>> > computer, unless the computer had a slave controller in it.
>>
>> > If it were a slave, then you would be able to connect it to a computer,
>> > but not to a camera.
>>
>> > Unfortunately USB doesn't allow for any other type of device - it must be
>> > either a slave device or a master.
>>
>> > So, if you are going to have a USB port, which type of device controller
>> > should it get?
>>
>> Many devices allow you to pick the mode.
>
> Okay, but does this variation still only cost proverbially 3 cents to
> add?
>
> And what other trades does it potentially entail on the system
> configuration, design and UI?

    You mean the "problem" of adding a little extra storage transparently
to the device. This is Apple, they've been doing this stuff for nearly 30
years. 

    ...yet another example of the cult disavowing the Mac in order to
elevate this oversized ipod.

[deletia]

    With all of this "lets get rid of filesystems" nonsense Apple and 
it's cult members have been pushing recently, it really should not be
that big of a problem.

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \

On 2010-03-23, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
><peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> >> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>> >> > 
>> >> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
>> >> 
>> >> Actually, no, it does not
>> > 
>> > actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
>> > into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
>> > well as charge it.
>>
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>> 
>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/
>
> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
> of not particularly accurate criticisms). 
>
> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?

    The kindle isn't being portrayed as anything more than a book reader.

    OTOH, the ipad is being overhyped by cult members as the second coming.

[deletia]

    The Kindle also doesn't have an office suite planned for it.

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \

JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> writes:

> On 2010-03-23, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
>><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>>
>>
>> What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the slave
>> device?
>
>     Use an A port to turn it into slave and a B port to turn it into a master.
>
>     Rocket science it is not.
>
> [deletia]
>
>     Although the only reason to even turn this thing into a slave device
> is this walled garden nonsense. Make it a proper machine with open access
> and the need to treat this thing like an oversized ipod goes away.

Jed, we realise you're thicker than pig shit and as dull as ditch water,
but this is NOT a laptop or netbook. Don't you get that?

JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> writes:

> On 2010-03-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In article <slrnhqfjto.mgc.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
>><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>>
>>>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
>>
>> it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.
>
>    That's a real gem. Someone should really frame that one.
>
> [deletia]

Why? If you think its overpriced then dont buy it. Those that DONT think
that will buy it gladly. And they will.

JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> writes:

> On 2010-03-23, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>><peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>> >> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>> >> > 
>>> >> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>> >> 
>>> >> Actually, no, it does not
>>> > 
>>> > actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
>>> > into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
>>> > well as charge it.
>>>
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>>> 
>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/
>>
>> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
>> of not particularly accurate criticisms). 
>>
>> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
>
>     The kindle isn't being portrayed as anything more than a book reader.
>
>     OTOH, the ipad is being overhyped by cult members as the second
>     coming.

What cult and where? Please provide links or are you parroting your
master Peter Koehlmann? You do realise he's wrong about technical issues
more often than you don't you?

> [deletia]
>
>     The Kindle also doesn't have an office suite planned for it.

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnhqhsuq.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2010-03-23, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>
>    Although the only reason to even turn this thing into a slave device
> is this walled garden nonsense. Make it a proper machine with open access
> and the need to treat this thing like an oversized ipod goes away.


That's what Apple is betting on - many people don't want a "proper machine" 
whatever that means. People want to read email, visit some web sites, play a 
few games, etc. They are not necessarily looking for a computer or a "proper 
machine."  Somehow people like seem to think that everyone wants/needs a 
"proper machine" which in every other failed 'tablet computer' meant 
building a *computer* with a full computer OS.

This isn't intended to be a full computer so try and catch up and understand 
what it's intended purpose is.

In article <slrnhqht2v.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

>     You mean the "problem" of adding a little extra storage transparently
> to the device. This is Apple, they've been doing this stuff for nearly 30
> years. 

it's only a problem if people actually fill the storage they already
have, which most don't. the best selling ipods have been the nanos
which are currently 8-16 gig, not the ipod classic with 120-160 gig.

In article <kchhq55r31q6f11qbhvd2vv3imf4pshp6n@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits 

most companies do. otherwise they cease to exist.

> by constraining their customers in various ways.

nonsense. if people felt constrained they would buy a different product.

In article <slrnhqhsib.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> >>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
> >
> > it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.
> 
>    That's a real gem. Someone should really frame that one.

take an economics class sometime. you might even learn something,
although somehow i doubt that.

In article <slrnhqhsp6.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> >> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports. 
> >
> > neither do you.
> 
> ...sure he does. He probably sees how people use other devices.

when i see people using laptops, they rarely, if ever, have something
plugged into a usb port. the few times they do, it's usually a 3g data
card, which is built into the ipad (and has substantially cheaper usage
fees).

> The fact that Apple chooses to make/sell a keyboard for the device clearly
> demonstrates it should have a USB port to support HID devices if nothing
> else.

what other hid device were you planning on connecting? a mouse?

> Apple's current keyboards suck. 

most people are satisfied with them, but keyboard preferences vary.

> Being forced to use theirs will suck.

nobody is forcing anyone to use an apple keyboard. any bluetooth
keyboard will work with the ipad, and any usb or bluetooth keyboard
will work with macs.

In article <slrnhqht5l.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> > the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
> 
>     The kindle isn't being portrayed as anything more than a book reader.

one of the main features of the ipad is ebooks, which is why there's
apple's ibookstore, along with amazon and barnes&noble. 

>     The Kindle also doesn't have an office suite planned for it.

so amazon is constraining what you do with the kindle, but somehow it's
perfectly acceptable. hypocrisy at its finest.

In article <kiehq5hskdftph79hpq0odta61cd4uvt1l@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> >>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
> >
> >it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.
> 
> That is *not* the definition of "overpriced" you fscking *idiot".  

take an economics class sometime.

> You *seriously* think that if a product sells unit one, that it's not
> "overpriced"? 

the ipad is not a single unit sale.

> You don't think people ever cough-up the money for
> "overpriced" products, especially when the available products that
> meet their needs are artificially restricted?

learn what supply and demand is, and that different people have
different needs.

> God damn,you are stupid.  "Every single user will want to use this" is
> *not* the criteria for including a feature.  Face it, USB devices are
> useful and ubiquitous.

that must be why the kindle has usb ports. oh wait, it doesn't.

In article <hoau8n$9a1$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Ezekiel
<zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:

> That's what Apple is betting on - many people don't want a "proper machine" 
> whatever that means. People want to read email, visit some web sites, play a 
> few games, etc. They are not necessarily looking for a computer or a "proper 
> machine."  Somehow people like seem to think that everyone wants/needs a 
> "proper machine" which in every other failed 'tablet computer' meant 
> building a *computer* with a full computer OS.

exactly. 

> This isn't intended to be a full computer so try and catch up and understand 
> what it's intended purpose is.

don't expect much.

nospam wrote:

>In article <kiehq5hskdftph79hpq0odta61cd4uvt1l@4ax.com>, chrisv
><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
>> >
>> >it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.
>> 
>> That is *not* the definition of "overpriced" you fscking *idiot".  
>
>take an economics class sometime.

I have, idiot.  Take your own advice.

>> You *seriously* think that if a product sells unit one, that it's not
>> "overpriced"? 
>
>the ipad is not a single unit sale.

Idiot.  At issue was the keyboard, and your idiotic claim that "it's
only overpriced if nobody buys it".

>> You don't think people ever cough-up the money for
>> "overpriced" products, especially when the available products that
>> meet their needs are artificially restricted?
>
>learn what supply and demand is, 

I know better than you do, idiot.

>and that different people have different needs.

Evasion of my point noted.

>> God damn,you are stupid.  "Every single user will want to use this" is
>> *not* the criteria for including a feature.  Face it, USB devices are
>> useful and ubiquitous.
>
>that must be why the kindle has usb ports. oh wait, it doesn't.

The Kindle is merely an e-reader, idiot, not the muli-function device
that the iPad is.

nospam wrote:

>take an economics class sometime.

LOL

Idiot.

nospam wrote:

>In article <kchhq55r31q6f11qbhvd2vv3imf4pshp6n@4ax.com>, chrisv
><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits 
>
>most companies do. otherwise they cease to exist.

You missed my point, idiot, which is that serving "typical usage
patterns" may conflict with their desire to maximize profits by
constraining their customers.

>> by constraining their customers in various ways.
>
>nonsense. if people felt constrained they would buy a different product.

Wrong again, idiot.  People will buy the "best fit" product, *despite*
it's shortcomings.  Just because "people like and will buy the iPad"
does not mean that USB ports would not improve it, idiot.

In article <4d1iq55r1l3qpv8kncqvv22tgeiuipo3mp@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> >take an economics class sometime.
> 
> I have, idiot.  Take your own advice.

apparently you slept through it.

> Idiot.  At issue was the keyboard, and your idiotic claim that "it's
> only overpriced if nobody buys it".

so how many have they sold?

> >and that different people have different needs.
> 
> Evasion of my point noted.

it's not evasion at all. it's a fact. not everyone wants what you think
they should need. that's why there are a variety of devices available,
all with different feature sets.

> >that must be why the kindle has usb ports. oh wait, it doesn't.
> 
> The Kindle is merely an e-reader, idiot, not the muli-function device
> that the iPad is.

but the kindle could do so much more, had amazon not crippled it.

of course, it's not apple who crippled it, so it's perfectly fine.

you're a hypocrite.

nospam wrote:

>In article <slrnhqht5l.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> > the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
>> 
>>     The kindle isn't being portrayed as anything more than a book reader.
>
>one of the main features of the ipad is ebooks, which is why there's
>apple's ibookstore, along with amazon and barnes&noble. 

The point is that the Kindle is a narrow-focus device.

Idiot.

>>     The Kindle also doesn't have an office suite planned for it.
>
>so amazon is constraining what you do with the kindle, but somehow it's
>perfectly acceptable.

Ye Gods, you are fscking *stupid*.  

They are *two different product catagories*, you *idiot*.  In only
*one* of these product catagories do things like USB ports become
really useful and expected!

> hypocrisy at its finest.

Stop lying, idiot.

In article <vq1iq5luma5rl8gk01bs4mm0v4dqk0pmnq@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Ye Gods, you are fscking *stupid*.  

and you are rude, obnoxious and incapable of intelligent debate.

nospam wrote:

> In article <slrnhqht5l.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
> <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
> 
>> > the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming
>> > that?
>> 
>>     The kindle isn't being portrayed as anything more than a book
>>     reader.
> 
> one of the main features of the ipad is ebooks, which is why there's
> apple's ibookstore, along with amazon and barnes&noble.
> 
>>     The Kindle also doesn't have an office suite planned for it.
> 
> so amazon is constraining what you do with the kindle, but somehow it's
> perfectly acceptable. hypocrisy at its finest.

Amazon does not attribute all kinds of capabilities to its machine.

It is a eBook reader. And for that task, it is *better* than the iPad.

Too bad that the iPad isn't doing anything particularly well
-- 
You're not my type.  For that matter, you're not even my species

nospam wrote:

> In article <vq1iq5luma5rl8gk01bs4mm0v4dqk0pmnq@4ax.com>, chrisv
> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Ye Gods, you are fscking *stupid*.
> 
> and you are rude, obnoxious and incapable of intelligent debate.

For having an "intelligent debate" one needs intelligence on all sides.
You as a fanboi cult member don't qualify
-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

In article <hob2k7$t4h$02$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Amazon does not attribute all kinds of capabilities to its machine.

neither does apple.

> It is a eBook reader. And for that task, it is *better* than the iPad.

except when the books have colour in them, which many do. or when
ambient light is low. or when you want higher contrast than the kindle
screen, for those with vision that's not perfect. but other than that.

> Too bad that the iPad isn't doing anything particularly well

nonsense.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:36:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>-hh pulled this Usenet boner:

>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
>>> omnipresent.
>>
>> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
>> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.

>Ay yi yi.  No use conversing on this topic any further.

The analogy is spot on.  You're right that there is no use with this
idiotic bickering.  There's no need for USB on such a product.

the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.
If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth.  Ditto for
any other peripherals.   If you need networking, use BT or wifi.  

Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone.

On Mar 20, 6:16=A0pm, Lloyd Parsons <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <ctKdnW0vQLhr3jjWnZ2dnUVZ_h6jn...@bresnan.com>,
> =A0GreyCloud <m...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > > In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dn...@supernews.com>,
> > > =A0Rick <n...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> > >> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:

> > >> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
> > >> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>

> > > I'd have to agree. =A0I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and i=
t is
> > > quite good. =A0If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on i=
t
> > > again.

Have you looked at any of the Movie vending services designed for
Linux?
There are several services that only require an MPEG4 player
(commercial software, but can often be downloaded from the service
provider).  Ironically, there are several Linux powered MPEG4 player
devices on the market already.

> > win7 must be pretty bad. =A0What does Netflix need in order for it to r=
un
> > on Ubuntu?

NetFlix is just one vendor

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html

http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialVideo.html

http://linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/09/06/crossover_partone.html

http://www.governmentsecurity.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=3D2514

The specific NetFlix question is deliberately loaded and biased.
NetFlix made a deal to use Microsoft's technology exclusively.
Without SilverLight, you can't play it.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9198444724.html


BlockBuster uses a Linux based player for their video on demand.
http://openboxeebox.com/new-blockbuster-vod-box-runs-linux/

Flash can play movies from several services

In case Flash didn't come with your distribution.
http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/



> You need Silverlight and drm. =A0The Moonlight project is behind one
> version level with the current Silverlight, and doesn't do the DRM. =A0
> There is ongoing work, but at the moment the luck isn't working well.


> And no, W7 isn't so bad, in fact it is the best MS has done.

I supposed it depends on your definition and criteria of "Best".
Windows 2000 was much more efficient, gave outstanding performance for
the resources consumed, and could run in as little as 64 Meg of RAM
and use as much as 3 Gigabytes.  Windows 2000 server could use 8
Gigabytes.  Windows 7 consumes absurd amounts of resources, and wastes
most of that on nonproductive eye-candy designed to entertain you so
that you won't be as annoyed by the absurdly slow disk I/O.

I went to the MarketPro show in Meadowlands New Jersey this week-end.
The hot seller wasn't Windows 7, it was Windows XP professional.  It
seems that many people are not that happy with Windows 7 either.  This
may be a boon for Microsoft, since they will be able to collect
revenue for the OEM version AND the Windows XP "Upgrade".

> =A0But online, windows is still windows and all the malware writers love =
to flock to it.

Windows, even Windows 7 has some very well-known back doors that
Microsoft insists on keeping open and unlocked - so they can audit for
piracy and see where competitive threats are coming from and spot
emerging markets and kill them before they get too entrenched.

Windows 7 does seem to have made several good improvements.  They seem
to have cleaned up their garbage collection so that it doesn't stop
multi-media or 3D animation in sudden "pauses".  It's also much faster
in games than Vista, and much more reliable than Vista.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't compare to a Mac as shown by the
actual profits and revenues of Apple compared to the PC divisions of
Windows-only PC manufacturers.  People are still willing to spend
$1800 for a Mac Notebook but they are mostly buying Windows 7 laptops
for around $450.  Given the total costs of parts, assembly, inventory,
shipping, and retailer costs, it looks like Windows 7 will be another
money loser for Retailers and OEMs alike.

Has anybody played with the Windows 7 hypervisor to see if you could
run Linux and Windows concurrently using a dual-partition
configuration?

Rex Ballard
http://www.open4success.com

"AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in message 
news:slrnhqi3q5.tdr.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:36:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom 
> <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>-hh pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
>>>> omnipresent.
>>>
>>> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
>>> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.
>
>>Ay yi yi.  No use conversing on this topic any further.
>
> The analogy is spot on.  You're right that there is no use with this
> idiotic bickering.  There's no need for USB on such a product.
>
> the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.


So you agree with the anology that it is nothing more than a big iPod/


> If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth.  Ditto for
> any other peripherals.   If you need networking, use BT or wifi.
>
> Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone. 

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:4d1iq55r1l3qpv8kncqvv22tgeiuipo3mp@4ax.com...
> nospam wrote:
>
>>In article <kiehq5hskdftph79hpq0odta61cd4uvt1l@4ax.com>, chrisv
>><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> >>     Yet the sell an overpriced keyboard accessory.
>>> >
>>> >it's only overpriced if nobody buys it.
>>>
>>> That is *not* the definition of "overpriced" you fscking *idiot".
>>
>>take an economics class sometime.
>
> I have, idiot.  Take your own advice.
>
>>> You *seriously* think that if a product sells unit one, that it's not
>>> "overpriced"?
>>
>>the ipad is not a single unit sale.
>
> Idiot.  At issue was the keyboard, and your idiotic claim that "it's
> only overpriced if nobody buys it".
>
>>> You don't think people ever cough-up the money for
>>> "overpriced" products, especially when the available products that
>>> meet their needs are artificially restricted?
>>
>>learn what supply and demand is,
>
> I know better than you do, idiot.
>
>>and that different people have different needs.
>
> Evasion of my point noted.
>
>>> God damn,you are stupid.  "Every single user will want to use this" is
>>> *not* the criteria for including a feature.  Face it, USB devices are
>>> useful and ubiquitous.
>>
>>that must be why the kindle has usb ports. oh wait, it doesn't.
>
> The Kindle is merely an e-reader, idiot, not the muli-function device
> that the iPad is.

Sorry - correction.  The iPad doesn't seem to be so multi-function.  It 
lacks just about everything. 

Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> writes:

> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <vq1iq5luma5rl8gk01bs4mm0v4dqk0pmnq@4ax.com>, chrisv
>> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ye Gods, you are fscking *stupid*.
>> 
>> and you are rude, obnoxious and incapable of intelligent debate.
>
> For having an "intelligent debate" one needs intelligence on all sides.
> You as a fanboi cult member don't qualify

Yes my friend Peter this mostly of the truth for these Apple dorkz. for
me my Ubuntu rockzaz!  Is it the truth that you are programming the
Gnome widgets and things? This is so totally rocking for me but I prfer
CLI. This week I showed my colleagues billy boyz how to be ls'ing with a
pipe for sort! Try his in dummarse Apple OSX!

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:230320101156576761%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <hob2k7$t4h$02$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> Amazon does not attribute all kinds of capabilities to its machine.
>
> neither does apple.


I think for Jobs to tout it as "revolutionary" and "magical" says they do.


>
>> It is a eBook reader. And for that task, it is *better* than the iPad.
>
> except when the books have colour in them, which many do. or when
> ambient light is low. or when you want higher contrast than the kindle
> screen, for those with vision that's not perfect. but other than that.
>
>> Too bad that the iPad isn't doing anything particularly well
>
> nonsense.

No - true. 

In article 
<810d8716-e23c-4580-9b98-d068e8d68aae@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
 Rex Ballard <rex.ballard@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mar 20, 6:16�pm, Lloyd Parsons <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote:
> > In article <ctKdnW0vQLhr3jjWnZ2dnUVZ_h6jn...@bresnan.com>,
> > �GreyCloud <m...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> > > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > > > In article <ScSdna2FdZZouDjWnZ2dnUVZ_j-dn...@supernews.com>,
> > > > �Rick <n...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> > > >> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:05:52 -0700, KDT wrote:
> 
> > > >> ... and the return rates are a non-issue ...
> > > >> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html>
> 
> > > > I'd have to agree. �I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my Netbook and it is
> > > > quite good. �If it had Netflix capability I would never run W7 on it
> > > > again.
> 
> Have you looked at any of the Movie vending services designed for
> Linux?

No, didn't even know there was any and a google search didn't show up 
any.

> There are several services that only require an MPEG4 player
> (commercial software, but can often be downloaded from the service
> provider).  Ironically, there are several Linux powered MPEG4 player
> devices on the market already.
> 
> > > win7 must be pretty bad. �What does Netflix need in order for it to run
> > > on Ubuntu?
> 
> NetFlix is just one vendor
>
But is my preferred vendor for lots of reasons.  For streaming, because 
it does a superb job.
 
> http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html
> 
> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialVideo.html
> 
> http://linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/09/06/crossover_partone.html
> 
> http://www.governmentsecurity.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2514
> 
> The specific NetFlix question is deliberately loaded and biased.
> NetFlix made a deal to use Microsoft's technology exclusively.
> Without SilverLight, you can't play it.
> 
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9198444724.html
>
I know that.  Did a lot of reading about the different efforts, all not 
very successful.  The only one that was even close was to use VMWare and 
Windows.  But on a netbook, I wouldn't think that would be viable.
 
> 
> BlockBuster uses a Linux based player for their video on demand.
> http://openboxeebox.com/new-blockbuster-vod-box-runs-linux/
> 
That's actually quite interesting, thanks for the link.  But even 
Blockbuster doesn't do streaming to a Linux computer, and it doesn't 
seem that they do any HD streaming.  They do have newer movies that you 
pay for ($3.99 pretty reasonable for new releases).

> Flash can play movies from several services
> 
> In case Flash didn't come with your distribution.
> http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
>
I'm not impressed with Flash based movies at all, on any platform.
 
> 
> 
> > You need Silverlight and drm. �The Moonlight project is behind one
> > version level with the current Silverlight, and doesn't do the DRM. �
> > There is ongoing work, but at the moment the luck isn't working well.
> 
> 
> > And no, W7 isn't so bad, in fact it is the best MS has done.
> 
> I supposed it depends on your definition and criteria of "Best".
> Windows 2000 was much more efficient, gave outstanding performance for
> the resources consumed, and could run in as little as 64 Meg of RAM
> and use as much as 3 Gigabytes.  Windows 2000 server could use 8
> Gigabytes.  Windows 7 consumes absurd amounts of resources, and wastes
> most of that on nonproductive eye-candy designed to entertain you so
> that you won't be as annoyed by the absurdly slow disk I/O.
> 
> I went to the MarketPro show in Meadowlands New Jersey this week-end.
> The hot seller wasn't Windows 7, it was Windows XP professional.  It
> seems that many people are not that happy with Windows 7 either.  This
> may be a boon for Microsoft, since they will be able to collect
> revenue for the OEM version AND the Windows XP "Upgrade".
>
W7 on my Atom based, 1Gb netbook performs better than I had expected.  
Is it the best Windows?  Seems to me that it is, but then I don't use it 
or the netbook much.  Unless I'm away from home, I use my 27" iMac.
 
> > �But online, windows is still windows and all the malware writers love to 
> > flock to it.
> 
> Windows, even Windows 7 has some very well-known back doors that
> Microsoft insists on keeping open and unlocked - so they can audit for
> piracy and see where competitive threats are coming from and spot
> emerging markets and kill them before they get too entrenched.
> 
> Windows 7 does seem to have made several good improvements.  They seem
> to have cleaned up their garbage collection so that it doesn't stop
> multi-media or 3D animation in sudden "pauses".  It's also much faster
> in games than Vista, and much more reliable than Vista.
> 
> Unfortunately, it still doesn't compare to a Mac as shown by the
> actual profits and revenues of Apple compared to the PC divisions of
> Windows-only PC manufacturers.  People are still willing to spend
> $1800 for a Mac Notebook but they are mostly buying Windows 7 laptops
> for around $450.  Given the total costs of parts, assembly, inventory,
> shipping, and retailer costs, it looks like Windows 7 will be another
> money loser for Retailers and OEMs alike.
> 
> Has anybody played with the Windows 7 hypervisor to see if you could
> run Linux and Windows concurrently using a dual-partition
> configuration?
> 
> Rex Ballard
> http://www.open4success.com

-- 
Lloyd

On 10-03-22 21:47 , D.F. Manno wrote:
> In article<b4KdnVfcWJJ1ejrWnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
>
> Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus
> groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have
> just your half-assed opinion.

My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.  Not have to have 
to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.

All you have is blind faith in St-Jobs - that makes you pretty half-assed.

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 10-03-23 9:29 , -hh wrote:

> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.

Do you just rely on your high school debating society B-team manual?

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

nospam wrote:

Goodbye Oxretard

PLONK!

In article 
<lloydparsons-E517A5.15173023032010@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:

> > BlockBuster uses a Linux based player for their video on demand.
> > http://openboxeebox.com/new-blockbuster-vod-box-runs-linux/
> > 
> That's actually quite interesting, thanks for the link.  But even 
> Blockbuster doesn't do streaming to a Linux computer, and it doesn't 
> seem that they do any HD streaming.  They do have newer movies that you 
> pay for ($3.99 pretty reasonable for new releases).

Further research shows that this is a dud.  Nearly no HD movies from 
Blockbuster, and the box itself isn't getting any good reviews.  It is 
sometimes good to know that bulwarks like Blockbuster don't change much!  
:)

-- 
Lloyd

In article <0JWdna5t_O7GvzTWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.  Not have to have 
> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.

that's fine, but unfortunately for you, apple isn't making the ipad for
just you. they're making it for what they think most people will be
using.

On 10-03-23 17:03 , nospam wrote:
> In article<0JWdna5t_O7GvzTWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.  Not have to have
>> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.
>
> that's fine, but unfortunately for you, apple isn't making the ipad for
> just you. they're making it for what they think most people will be
> using.

Most people will likely use the USB adaptor more than they ever want to: 
  Once and more.

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 2010-03-23, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>
>> On 2010-03-23, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
>>><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>>>
>>>
>>> What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the slave
>>> device?
>>
>>     Use an A port to turn it into slave and a B port to turn it into a master.
>>
>>     Rocket science it is not.
>>
>> [deletia]
>>
>>     Although the only reason to even turn this thing into a slave device
>> is this walled garden nonsense. Make it a proper machine with open access
>> and the need to treat this thing like an oversized ipod goes away.
>
> Jed, we realise you're thicker than pig shit and as dull as ditch water,
> but this is NOT a laptop or netbook. Don't you get that?

    Yes. It's a pregnant ipod.

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

On 2010-03-23, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
> news:slrnhqhsuq.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2010-03-23, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>    Although the only reason to even turn this thing into a slave device
>> is this walled garden nonsense. Make it a proper machine with open access
>> and the need to treat this thing like an oversized ipod goes away.
>
>
> That's what Apple is betting on - many people don't want a "proper machine" 
> whatever that means. People want to read email, visit some web sites, play a 

    It means...

        they never want to share with their friends and family.
        they never want to burn a CD.
        they never want to print a picture.

        they never want to dump their Windows PC with the copy of iTunes on it.

[deletia]

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

On 2010-03-23, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>
>> On 2010-03-23, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>><peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> >> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> Actually, no, it does not
>>>> > 
>>>> > actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
>>>> > into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
>>>> > well as charge it.
>>>>
>>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/
>>>
>>> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
>>> of not particularly accurate criticisms). 
>>>
>>> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
>>
>>     The kindle isn't being portrayed as anything more than a book reader.
>>
>>     OTOH, the ipad is being overhyped by cult members as the second
>>     coming.
>
> What cult and where? Please provide links or are you parroting your

     Your stupid lies are irrelevant.

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

On 2010-03-23, Mocassin joe <joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:230320101156576761%nospam@nospam.invalid...
>> In article <hob2k7$t4h$02$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Amazon does not attribute all kinds of capabilities to its machine.
>>
>> neither does apple.
>
>
> I think for Jobs to tout it as "revolutionary" and "magical" says they do.

    There was also some rhetoric indicating that they think that this
thing will displace netbooks.

    Now since this thing has an office suite planned for it, it is clearly
meant to be a little more than another PMP or a Kindle knockoff. The cult
members (and the sniping Lemmings) won't let actual facts get in the way
of their faith in the one true Jobs.

[deletia]

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

On 2010-03-23, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <slrnhqhsp6.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> >> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports. 
>> >
>> > neither do you.
>> 
>> ...sure he does. He probably sees how people use other devices.
>
> when i see people using laptops, they rarely, if ever, have something

    Ok. We can safely ignore you now.

    You are either blind (thus never see anything) or have the blinders
on so tight that you never see anything that might contradict the party
line coming out of Cupertino.

    Also, rare != never. Those "rare" bits tend to be the ones that separate
the really useful tools from the pointless bits of conspicous consumption.

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>  Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> >-hh pulled this Usenet boner:
> >> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>
> >>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
> >>> omnipresent.
>
> >> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
> >> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.
> >
> >Ay yi yi. =A0No use conversing on this topic any further.
>
> The analogy is spot on. =A0You're right that there is no use with this
> idiotic bickering. =A0There's no need for USB on such a product.
>
> the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.
> If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth. =A0Ditto for
> any other peripherals. =A0 If you need networking, use BT or wifi. =A0
>
> Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone.


I'm gratified that at least one person understood the analogy.


What we're seeing here is a leap to conclusions.

Specifically, we have an assumption that its OK for some devices (eg,
Kindle) to not have a USB port, but not OK for others.

The rational underlying this is because the different devices have
been pigeon-holed into different product catagories, and the it is
this catagorization that applies (or not) value to certain
features.

Okay...but who picked these product catagories?   And upon what
basis?

So is the problem with the product?  Or is it a problem based upon
what "catagory" that the device is being Pigeon-holed into, andi if
this selection was correctly done or not.


In other words, we can say: "if the iPad is a Netbook then YES, it
should have USB ports"

However, the weak link in this logic is hidden by the "IF":  how do we
determine if it really properly falls into the Netbook catagory?

Without that proof, the argument has zero basis of foundation and it
logically falls.


So:  what catagory is the iPad being put into?
Describe it in detail and not only its salient characteristics, but
why these are salient.

If you can't (or won't), then stop whining.  ;^)


-hh

On 2010-03-23, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <slrnhqht2v.mm4.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>>     You mean the "problem" of adding a little extra storage transparently
>> to the device. This is Apple, they've been doing this stuff for nearly 30
>> years. 
>
> it's only a problem if people actually fill the storage they already
> have, which most don't. the best selling ipods have been the nanos

    I feel a strange sense of deja vu here.

    I think we even have a multiple of 640K on the relevant device.

> which are currently 8-16 gig, not the ipod classic with 120-160 gig.


-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

On 2010-03-23, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:36:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>-hh pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
>>>> omnipresent.
>>>
>>> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
>>> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.
>
>>Ay yi yi.  No use conversing on this topic any further.
>
> The analogy is spot on.  You're right that there is no use with this
> idiotic bickering.  There's no need for USB on such a product.

     This is more about counteracting the essential lameness of the device
more than anything else. It's closed and under-speced. Although as long as
competitors aren't completely squeezed out of the market it ultimately 
won't matter.

     Those that find Apple devices to be lame can just use something else.

>
> the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.
> If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth.  Ditto for
> any other peripherals.   If you need networking, use BT or wifi.  
>
> Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone.

     Yup. That's the real problem. The thing is a pregnant iphone.

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

Alan Browne <alan.bro...@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> -hh wrote:
>
> > So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
> > isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.
>
> Do you just rely on your high school debating society B-team manual?

What passes for a debate around here rarely get above Elementary
School playground, so not even High School level is required.


<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Whig
%E2%80%93Cliosophic_Society>


-hh

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> > chrisv<chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits
>
> >most companies do. otherwise they cease to exist.
>
> You missed my point, idiot, which is that serving "typical usage
> patterns" may conflict with their desire to maximize profits by
> constraining their customers.

Okay, so let's play it you way:


> >> by constraining their customers in various ways.
>
> >nonsense. if people felt constrained they would buy a different product.
>
> Wrong again, idiot. =A0People will buy the "best fit" product, *despite*
> it's shortcomings. =A0Just because "people like and will buy the iPad"
> does not mean that USB ports would not improve it, idiot.

So then by your rules, the addition of a USB port (and with a price
hike), will improve the product, so Apple should do this because it
will increase their quantities of sales and, due to the price hike to
cover the increase in costs, their profits.


So how is it then that they can be as greedy as you claim they are ...
and yet fail to add a USB port in order to rake in more gold?


Please explain.


-hh

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message 
news:952e3df3-0a8e-427d-acee-26f194f77662@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>  Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> >-hh pulled this Usenet boner:
> >> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>
> >>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
> >>> omnipresent.
>
> >> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
> >> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.
> >
> >Ay yi yi. No use conversing on this topic any further.
>
> The analogy is spot on. You're right that there is no use with this
> idiotic bickering. There's no need for USB on such a product.
>
> the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.
> If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth. Ditto for
> any other peripherals. If you need networking, use BT or wifi.
>
> Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone.


I'm gratified that at least one person understood the analogy.


What we're seeing here is a leap to conclusions.

Specifically, we have an assumption that its OK for some devices (eg,
Kindle) to not have a USB port, but not OK for others.

The rational underlying this is because the different devices have
been pigeon-holed into different product catagories, and the it is
this catagorization that applies (or not) value to certain
features.

Okay...but who picked these product catagories?   And upon what
basis?

So is the problem with the product?  Or is it a problem based upon
what "catagory" that the device is being Pigeon-holed into, andi if
this selection was correctly done or not.


In other words, we can say: "if the iPad is a Netbook then YES, it
should have USB ports"

However, the weak link in this logic is hidden by the "IF":  how do we
determine if it really properly falls into the Netbook catagory?

Without that proof, the argument has zero basis of foundation and it
logically falls.


So:  what catagory is the iPad being put into?

It's a revolutionary and magical (HAR) device.

Describe it in detail and not only its salient characteristics, but
why these are salient.

Go to; Apple.com.

After about ten seconds the site will come up.  Try to find "tech specs", 
with a bit of hunting I'm sure you will find it.  Click on "tech specs", 
after another ten seconds the information you are looking for will present 
itself.  Don't look at what's there,  realize what's not.

Does Apple use Flash on their site?
Why is the Apple site so slow?
Why does your computer break quotes?

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message 
news:98c426b6-65a7-4f9c-a041-6d06aa47b9ef@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> > chrisv<chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits
>
> >most companies do. otherwise they cease to exist.
>
> You missed my point, idiot, which is that serving "typical usage
> patterns" may conflict with their desire to maximize profits by
> constraining their customers.

Okay, so let's play it you way:


> >> by constraining their customers in various ways.
>
> >nonsense. if people felt constrained they would buy a different product.
>
> Wrong again, idiot. People will buy the "best fit" product, *despite*
> it's shortcomings. Just because "people like and will buy the iPad"
> does not mean that USB ports would not improve it, idiot.

So then by your rules, the addition of a USB port (and with a price
hike), will improve the product, so Apple should do this because it
will increase their quantities of sales and, due to the price hike to
cover the increase in costs, their profits.


So how is it then that they can be as greedy as you claim they are ...
and yet fail to add a USB port in order to rake in more gold?


Please explain.

Steve Jobs. He seems to know what's good for you.  I assume he feels you are 
not capable of making your own choices. Perhaps he's right.

In article <0JWdna5t_O7GvzTWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> D.F. Manno wrote:
> > Alan Browne< wrote:
> >
> >> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
> >
> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus
> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have
> > just your half-assed opinion.
> 
> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.

Then you won't be buying an iPad. Why the fuck anybody else should care 
is beyond me.

> Not have to have 
> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.
> 
> All you have is blind faith in St-Jobs - that makes you pretty half-assed.

You don't know me or my opinion of Jobs - that assumption makes you 
fully an ass.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

In article <slrnhqibva.k1r.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

>         they never want to share with their friends and family.

the ipad has a nice screen for exactly that, or plug it into a tv.

>         they never want to burn a CD.

netbooks and the kindle don't have cd burners, why should the ipad?

>         they never want to print a picture.

they can print wirelessly, which means no cable to lose either.

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnhqibs9.k1r.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2010-03-23, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>>
>>> On 2010-03-23, gl4317@yahoo.com <gl4317@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In article <mtafq55elpvos9q2dbdb2flfjjitrq7u89@4ax.com>, chrisv
>>>><chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If they were there, they'd get used, by many, and hardly a "waste".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What type of USB device should it be?  The master controller or the 
>>>> slave
>>>> device?
>>>
>>>     Use an A port to turn it into slave and a B port to turn it into a 
>>> master.
>>>
>>>     Rocket science it is not.
>>>
>>> [deletia]
>>>
>>>     Although the only reason to even turn this thing into a slave device
>>> is this walled garden nonsense. Make it a proper machine with open 
>>> access
>>> and the need to treat this thing like an oversized ipod goes away.
>>
>> Jed, we realise you're thicker than pig shit and as dull as ditch water,
>> but this is NOT a laptop or netbook. Don't you get that?
>
>    Yes. It's a pregnant ipod.

In some circles it's called a "BIG ASSED iPOD". 

In article <slrnhqic9j.k1r.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
<jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

>     Also, rare != never. Those "rare" bits tend to be the ones that separate
> the really useful tools from the pointless bits of conspicous consumption.

no, rare means it is probably not worth bothering to add features that
only a few people actually want to use. does it mean that those people
won't buy it? yes it does, but there's not enough of them to matter.

no product can be everything to everyone.

"D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> writes:

> In article <0JWdna5t_O7GvzTWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> D.F. Manno wrote:
>> > Alan Browne< wrote:
>> >
>> >> You have no idea how the typical user may want to use USB ports.
>> >
>> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus
>> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have
>> > just your half-assed opinion.
>> 
>> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.

Then go design yourself one.

Or stop whining and buy one of the hundreds of soon to be discontinued
open alternatives ....

>
> Then you won't be buying an iPad. Why the fuck anybody else should care 
> is beyond me.

Amazing isnt it?

>
>> Not have to have 
>> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.
>> 
>> All you have is blind faith in St-Jobs - that makes you pretty half-assed.
>
> You don't know me or my opinion of Jobs - that assumption makes you 
> fully an ass.

That is totally apparent. He's a bit like Jed. If it doesn't match what
HE wants then its drek.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:27:44 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>On 2010-03-23, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:36:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>-hh pulled this Usenet boner:
>>
>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
>>>>> omnipresent.
>>>>
>>>> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
>>>> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba gear.
>>
>>>Ay yi yi.  No use conversing on this topic any further.
>>
>> The analogy is spot on.  You're right that there is no use with this
>> idiotic bickering.  There's no need for USB on such a product.

>     This is more about counteracting the essential lameness of the device
>more than anything else. It's closed and under-speced. Although as long as
>competitors aren't completely squeezed out of the market it ultimately 
>won't matter.

>     Those that find Apple devices to be lame can just use something else.

>>
>> the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.
>> If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth.  Ditto for
>> any other peripherals.   If you need networking, use BT or wifi.  
>>
>> Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone.

>     Yup. That's the real problem. The thing is a pregnant iphone.

The OS is the biggest issue.  CCPM in '83 could multitask  25 years
later, we get the ipad and it can't walk and chew gun at the same time
Take a step.  forget the walking app,  get out the chewing app.
chew. get back the walking app.  step.  get out the chewing app chew.
and each time you have to hunt out the apps out of a list of possibly
hundreds of apps.

sorry.  I'd rather take the money and get a used thinkpad.

nospam wrote:

> In article <slrnhqic9j.k1r.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
> <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
> 
>>     Also, rare != never. Those "rare" bits tend to be the ones that
>>     separate
>> the really useful tools from the pointless bits of conspicous
>> consumption.
> 
> no, rare means it is probably not worth bothering to add features that
> only a few people actually want to use. does it mean that those people
> won't buy it? yes it does, but there's not enough of them to matter.
> 
> no product can be everything to everyone.

So you have learned by now that the useless toy "iPad" actually does not 
have USB ports (only has them when connected to the Connection Kit)?

Why oh why did you claim otherwise just hours ago, against all supplied 
links? Was it your inbred utter stupidity, your belonging to the apple 
cargo cult, you being a brainless fanboi or was it a combination of all of 
those?
-- 
Just out of curiosity does this actually mean something or have some
of the few remaining bits of your brain just evaporated?

AZ Nomad wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:27:44 -0500, JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>>On 2010-03-23, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:36:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom
>>> <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>>-hh pulled this Usenet boner:
>>>
>>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In any case, you're making it overly complex. ?USB thumb drives are
>>>>>> omnipresent.
>>>>>
>>>>> So too are kickstands on bicycles ... but for some odd reason, that
>>>>> isn't an adequate justification to add a kickstand onto my scuba
>>>>> gear.
>>>
>>>>Ay yi yi.  No use conversing on this topic any further.
>>>
>>> The analogy is spot on.  You're right that there is no use with this
>>> idiotic bickering.  There's no need for USB on such a product.
> 
>>     This is more about counteracting the essential lameness of the
>>     device
>>more than anything else. It's closed and under-speced. Although as long
>>as competitors aren't completely squeezed out of the market it
>>ultimately won't matter.
> 
>>     Those that find Apple devices to be lame can just use something
>>     else.
> 
>>>
>>> the ipad is more like a phone or palm pilot than a laptop.
>>> If you need to plug in keyboard or mouse, use bluetooth.  Ditto for
>>> any other peripherals.   If you need networking, use BT or wifi.
>>>
>>> Or get a device that isn't a glorified phone.
> 
>>     Yup. That's the real problem. The thing is a pregnant iphone.
> 
> The OS is the biggest issue.  CCPM in '83 could multitask  25 years
> later, we get the ipad and it can't walk and chew gun at the same time
> Take a step.  forget the walking app,  get out the chewing app.
> chew. get back the walking app.  step.  get out the chewing app chew.
> and each time you have to hunt out the apps out of a list of possibly
> hundreds of apps.
> 
> sorry.  I'd rather take the money and get a used thinkpad.

If you actually want a tablet computer, check the "wePad"
It is announced with samples for april, production should start in may

It is slightly larger then the iPad, has a *much* higher screen 
resolution, runs a Atom processor (no problems with Flash), has USB ports 
and all other sorts of goodies, runs linux inside and will cost *less* 
than the iPad.

It will naturally multitask, it will naturally be a real computer and not 
a worthless toy

It came into being (one of the reasons) because several publishers of 
newspapers and weekly magazines in germany will not take apples 
censorship. They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their 
apps nilly willy for no good reason. 
You see, people outside the US don't take it lightly when a filthy company 
like apple simply censors along their (unpublished) "reason of the hour"

In the free world people are not accepting US style censorship, which is 
not really any better than the chinese one
-- 
It's not about, 'Where do you want to go today?' It's more like,
'Where am I allowed to go today?'

In article <slrnhqigg5.5rh.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:

> The OS is the biggest issue.  CCPM in '83 could multitask  25 years
> later, we get the ipad and it can't walk and chew gun at the same time

yes it can. the ipad can multitask, including playing music in the
background, checking email, receiving push notifications at any time
and more. the limitation is in running third party apps, but since the
apps generally save state, switching between them is essentially the
same thing as having an app switcher. 

windows phone 7 can only run one app at a time too, but of course, you
don't hear anyone bitching, do you.

bunch of hypocrites.

In article <hobgg2$l1v$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> It came into being (one of the reasons) because several publishers of 
> newspapers and weekly magazines in germany will not take apples 
> censorship.

apple is not censoring newspapers, magazines or book content.

> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their 
> apps nilly willy for no good reason. 

yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled for
no reason (or even for a reason)?

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:21:24 -0700, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <slrnhqigg5.5rh.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
>AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:

>> The OS is the biggest issue.  CCPM in '83 could multitask  25 years
>> later, we get the ipad and it can't walk and chew gun at the same time

>yes it can. the ipad can multitask, including playing music in the
>background, checking email, receiving push notifications at any time
>and more. the limitation is in running third party apps, but since the
>apps generally save state, switching between them is essentially the
>same thing as having an app switcher. 

>windows phone 7 can only run one app at a time too, but of course, you
>don't hear anyone bitching, do you.

>bunch of hypocrites.

I'll keep that in mind somebody touts a windows mobile 7 tablet
computer.

FYI:  it can multitask;  windows mobile has been a multitasking piece
of shit for a long time.

Mocassin joe wrote:
> "D Finnigan" <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote in message 
> news:dog_cow-1269275723@macgui.com...
>> OP wrote:
>>> You need a Dock Connector-to-USB adapter .
>>>
>>
>> Oh noes, neither do any of the iPods which I and most of the entire world
>> own! @_@
> 
> So you are claiming it's a big  iPod and not revolutionary and magical and

> you and the rest of the world have no need for USB ports.

Yes. :-)


> 
>>> Remember, Jobs doesn't like USB either.
>>>
>>
>> Which is why the 1998 iMac had USB ports instead of ADB and no floppy 
>> drive.
> 
> So we are now going back in time.
>

Join me, as we stroll down memory lane. :-)

nospam wrote:

> In article <hobgg2$l1v$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> It came into being (one of the reasons) because several publishers of
>> newspapers and weekly magazines in germany will not take apples
>> censorship.
> 
> apple is not censoring newspapers, magazines or book content.

Except it is. Quit this blatant lying

>> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
>> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
> 
> yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled for
> no reason (or even for a reason)?

German newspaper "Bild". German weekly magazine "Der Stern"
And they weren't the only ones


Face it: Your filthy cargo cult company *censors* according to its own 
rules
-- 
Support your local Search and Rescue unit -- get lost.

In article <hobk5q$ftj$03$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
> >> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
> > 
> > yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled for
> > no reason (or even for a reason)?
> 
> German newspaper "Bild". German weekly magazine "Der Stern"
> And they weren't the only ones

you mean bild's app where you shake the app and the girl takes off her
clothes?? that's *not* a newspaper app.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/mar/09/bild-iphone-app>

apple was getting a *lot* of complaints about apps such as that. they
don't want porn in the store, no more than walmart or numerous other
stores do. of course when someone *other* than apple chooses not to
carry porn, it's no big deal.

there are plenty of other options if you want to look at naked bodies.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):

> nospam wrote:
> 
>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>> 
>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
> 
> Actually, no, it does not
> You need an additional Connection Kit for that

Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector that go 
directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip that conforms to 
USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad, the only thing that is 
not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an adaptor. I 
believe that this is a mistake on Apple's part and the device should have a 
dedicated, standard USB port on it, but it doesn't.  If you had phrased your 
criticism that way, I would have agreed with you. But like most Apple haters, 
you just had to twist the truth to make it look like the iPad doesn't support 
USB AT ALL. And you Apple haters wonder why you're so disliked when you post 
to this NG.  

> Just stop this outright lying, it just shows how desperate you fanboiz are

Look who's talking. An Apple hater who lies to make things look as bad as 
possible for any Apple product. 

>>> What the fanboiz don't want to admit is that apple deliberately chose
>>> to screw their customers by closing that thingy as much as possible.
>> 
>> quite the opposite, actually.
> 
> Well, cargo cult members will never admit how much they like to be screwed

And liars like you will never admit the depths to which they are willing to 
sink in order to paint the objects of their hate in the darkest colors 
possible. 

>>> After all, their cargo cult members will defend every move of apple, no
>>> matter how much it will cost them down the road
>> 
>> no, they just correct idiotic bullshit.
> 
> Since you chose to simply lie, there was not much left "corrected"

The irony here is so palpable here, it feels like an elephant sitting on 
one's face.!

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:18:29 -0700, nospam wrote
(in article <230320100418297640%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>> 
>>> actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
>>> into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
>>> well as charge it.
>> 
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>> 
>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/
> 
> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
> of not particularly accurate criticisms). 
> 
> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?

Because this Peter Koehlmann jerk doesn't hate Kindle readers, he hates ALL 
APPLE products!

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:53:20 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hob2n0$t4h$02$3@news.t-online.com>):

> nospam wrote:
> 
>> In article <vq1iq5luma5rl8gk01bs4mm0v4dqk0pmnq@4ax.com>, chrisv
>> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ye Gods, you are fscking *stupid*.
>> 
>> and you are rude, obnoxious and incapable of intelligent debate.
> 
> For having an "intelligent debate" one needs intelligence on all sides.
> You as a fanboi cult member don't qualify
> 

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."

All that means is that you don't argue with yourself. Unfortunately, it also 
means that introspection isn't part of your life either - and it shows. 

Fa-groon wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
> 
>> nospam wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>> 
>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>> 
>> Actually, no, it does not
>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
> 
> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector that
> go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip that
> conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad, the only
> thing that is
> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
> adaptor. 

Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector

Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?

-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Fa-groon wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:18:29 -0700, nospam wrote
> (in article <230320100418297640%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
> 
>> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>> 
>>>> actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug
>>>> it into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more
>>>> as well as charge it.
>>> 
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>>> 
>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-
ipad/
>> 
>> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
>> of not particularly accurate criticisms).
>> 
>> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
> 
> Because this Peter Koehlmann jerk doesn't hate Kindle readers, he hates
> ALL APPLE products!

Nope. I just don't like this cult about apple. They simply try to sell 
overpriced crap

Feel free to like it
-- 
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, For thou art crunchy, and good
with ketchup!

nospam wrote:

> In article <hobk5q$ftj$03$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> >> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
>> >> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
>> > 
>> > yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled
>> > for no reason (or even for a reason)?
>> 
>> German newspaper "Bild". German weekly magazine "Der Stern"
>> And they weren't the only ones
> 
> you mean bild's app where you shake the app and the girl takes off her
> clothes?? that's *not* a newspaper app.

And apple has *no* say in telling people what they can or can't do. Or 
what they think a "newspaper app" should be. 

Absolutely none. What apple did was *censoring* others. They are not 
better than the chinese cummunists party

> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/mar/09/bild-iphone-app>
> 
> apple was getting a *lot* of complaints about apps such as that. they
> don't want porn in the store, no more than walmart or numerous other
> stores do. of course when someone *other* than apple chooses not to
> carry porn, it's no big deal.
> 
> there are plenty of other options if you want to look at naked bodies.

There is *no* excuse for censorship.
And because of this behaviour, european publishers are *very* shy to the 
iPad.
Just count on it: The iPad is dead in europe when apple is doing this 
stunt *ever* again. No contents, no iPad
-- 
You're not my type.  For that matter, you're not even my species

In article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector

so it truly is magical.

it connects to the usb port of a computer, yet it doesn't have a usb
connector!

In article <hobn14$938$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> And apple has *no* say in telling people what they can or can't do. Or 
> what they think a "newspaper app" should be. 

good thing they're not doing that then.

what they're doing is not carrying an app that is little more than soft
core porn in their store.

> There is *no* excuse for censorship.

so you're ok with letting children see porn?

> And because of this behaviour, european publishers are *very* shy to the 
> iPad.

their loss.

> Just count on it: The iPad is dead in europe when apple is doing this 
> stunt *ever* again. No contents, no iPad

how much are you willing to wager?

In article <230320101708572298%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <hobk5q$ftj$03$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
> > >> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
> > >> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
> > > 
> > > yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled for
> > > no reason (or even for a reason)?
> > 
> > German newspaper "Bild". German weekly magazine "Der Stern"
> > And they weren't the only ones
> 
> you mean bild's app where you shake the app and the girl takes off her
> clothes?? that's *not* a newspaper app.
> 
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/mar/09/bild-iphone-app>
> 
> apple was getting a *lot* of complaints about apps such as that. they
> don't want porn in the store, no more than walmart or numerous other
> stores do. of course when someone *other* than apple chooses not to
> carry porn, it's no big deal.
> 
Which is the one problem with the App store, that while there are other
stores besides Walmart I can go to if they decide not to carry
something you can only get iPad software from one place. With luck
there will be some other way to get software on it.

-- 
Chris Mack       "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan'             - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'

In article <230320102047266363%invid@loclanet.com>, Invid Fan
<invid@loclanet.com> wrote:

> Which is the one problem with the App store, that while there are other
> stores besides Walmart I can go to if they decide not to carry
> something you can only get iPad software from one place. 

there's nothing stopping you from using safari to visit any porn site
you want, or just load up the ipad with whatever porn movies, photos,
sounds or whatever gets you off.

> With luck
> there will be some other way to get software on it.

write the software yourself, or jailbreak it.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
> 
> so it truly is magical.
> 
> it connects to the usb port of a computer, yet it doesn't have a usb
> connector!

Are you Snit Michael Glasser? Or OxRetard?

Only those could actually be stupid enough for this kind of bullshit

What part of "the iPad does not have a USB connector" was too difficult 
for you?

Any connectivity aquired by hooking the iPad to another device does not 
count as "the iPad having that capability".

-- 
If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the remaining 3%?

In article <hobgg2$l1v$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
 Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their 
> apps nilly willy for no good reason.

Apple is not required to run ads, so pulling them is entirely within its 
rights as long as they honor existing contracts.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

In article <hobnle$4if$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> What part of "the iPad does not have a USB connector" was too difficult 
> for you?

what part of it comes with a usb cable and plugs into a usb port on a
computer is too difficult for you?

no, you can't plug a hard drive or a printer into it. so what? that's
not how it's intended to be used. you can't plug a hard drive or
printer into a kindle either, but of course, there's no issue there
because it's not filthy apple. you are as transparent as the glass on
the front of the ipad.

D.F. Manno wrote:

> In article <hobgg2$l1v$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
>  Peter K�hlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
>> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
> 
> Apple is not required to run ads, so pulling them is entirely within its
> rights as long as they honor existing contracts.
> 

Oh, and newspapers telling apple to take a hike is absolutely fine also

And that is what is actually happening right now
-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

In article <230320101746176676%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> so you're ok with letting children see porn?

Yes, better they should be ignorant of the human body and sexuality, and 
grow up with screwed-up attitudes towards sex.

Meanwhile, they can watch all the violence they want.

It's OK to show someone slashing a woman's breast but not caressing it.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

In article <hobo4s$4if$00$3@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Oh, and newspapers telling apple to take a hike is absolutely fine also
> 
> And that is what is actually happening right now

nope.

the newspaper can focus on actual news (crazy concept, i know) instead
of boobs, and apple will gladly carry it.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hobn14$938$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> And apple has *no* say in telling people what they can or can't do. Or
>> what they think a "newspaper app" should be.
> 
> good thing they're not doing that then.
> 
> what they're doing is not carrying an app that is little more than soft
> core porn in their store.

Translation: They are censoring

>> There is *no* excuse for censorship.
> 
> so you're ok with letting children see porn?

What you guys in the US describe as "porn" does not even get a yawn out of 
12 years olds in europe
Since when has the lunatic US description of "indecent" being declared the 
norm worldwide?
And since when does a filthy company like apple decide what the laws in 
other countries should be? Because the content *censored* by apple not 
only was lawful in germany, it was not even considered "indecent"

So, by what right did apple pull the apps?
It absolutely certainly wasn't the laws of germany

>> And because of this behaviour, european publishers are *very* shy to
>> the iPad.
> 
> their loss.

Hardly. Apples loss. No content, no iPad
After all, that thingy is closed like nothing else. Its useability depends 
enirely on contents provided (for a fee, naturally). No contents...
 
>> Just count on it: The iPad is dead in europe when apple is doing this
>> stunt *ever* again. No contents, no iPad
> 
> how much are you willing to wager?

I don't need to wager. Your cult leader is

And I don't see him winning with this lunacy
-- 
Try to be the best of whatever you are, even if what you are is 
no good.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hobo4s$4if$00$3@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Oh, and newspapers telling apple to take a hike is absolutely fine also
>> 
>> And that is what is actually happening right now
> 
> nope.
> 
> the newspaper can focus on actual news (crazy concept, i know) instead
> of boobs, and apple will gladly carry it.

Translation: Apple will happily *censor* like chinese communists
-- 
Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

In article <hobp83$7d4$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> > what they're doing is not carrying an app that is little more than soft
> > core porn in their store.
> 
> Translation: They are censoring

*all* stores decide what to carry and not carry. 

> >> There is *no* excuse for censorship.
> > 
> > so you're ok with letting children see porn?
> 
> What you guys in the US describe as "porn" does not even get a yawn out of 
> 12 years olds in europe

that's wonderful, but the apps store is worldwide, not exclusively
europe.

> Since when has the lunatic US description of "indecent" being declared the 
> norm worldwide?
> And since when does a filthy company like apple decide what the laws in 
> other countries should be? Because the content *censored* by apple not 
> only was lawful in germany, it was not even considered "indecent"

it's *their* store. they get to sell whatever they want. 

what prompted them pulling the skin apps was that they were getting a
*lot* of complaints. there were so many apps that were nothing more
than photos of females in very little clothing, it was interfering with
the ability to actually find useful apps. 

i know someone who was on a trip and wanted an app to find nearby
restaurants. he did a search and what came up was page after page of
boob apps, with the occasional app that checked for restaurants. *that*
is a problem.

supposedly, apple is working on creating a category just for explicit
apps, so that those who want smut can get it and those who don't won't
see it.

> So, by what right did apple pull the apps?
> It absolutely certainly wasn't the laws of germany

it's a worldwide store. 

> >> And because of this behaviour, european publishers are *very* shy to
> >> the iPad.
> > 
> > their loss.
> 
> Hardly. Apples loss. No content, no iPad
> After all, that thingy is closed like nothing else. Its useability depends 
> enirely on contents provided (for a fee, naturally). No contents...

the ipad is actually more open than the kindle, and there's going to be
a *lot* of content for it.

> >> Just count on it: The iPad is dead in europe when apple is doing this
> >> stunt *ever* again. No contents, no iPad
> > 
> > how much are you willing to wager?
> 
> I don't need to wager. Your cult leader is

of course not. you'd lose.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:33:16 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hobmkc$80m$02$2@news.t-online.com>):

> Fa-groon wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:18:29 -0700, nospam wrote
>> (in article <230320100418297640%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
>> 
>>> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>> 
>>>>> actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug
>>>>> it into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more
>>>>> as well as charge it.
>>>> 
>>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-
> ipad/
>>> 
>>> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
>>> of not particularly accurate criticisms).
>>> 
>>> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
>> 
>> Because this Peter Koehlmann jerk doesn't hate Kindle readers, he hates
>> ALL APPLE products!
> 
> Nope. I just don't like this cult about apple. They simply try to sell 
> overpriced crap
> 
> Feel free to like it
> 

Your words say one thing, but your attitude and lying says something else. 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):

> Fa-groon wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>> 
>>> nospam wrote:
>>> 
>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>> 
>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>> 
>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>> 
>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector that
>> go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip that
>> conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad, the only
>> thing that is
>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>> adaptor. 
> 
> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector

Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard. 
> 
> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?

Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did? Why do you feel 
it necessary to be so dishonest?

In article <230320101750241517%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <230320102047266363%invid@loclanet.com>, Invid Fan
> <invid@loclanet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Which is the one problem with the App store, that while there are other
> > stores besides Walmart I can go to if they decide not to carry
> > something you can only get iPad software from one place. 
> 
> there's nothing stopping you from using safari to visit any porn site
> you want, or just load up the ipad with whatever porn movies, photos,
> sounds or whatever gets you off.
> 
It has nothing to do with porn, at least in my case. I will live with
such restrictions when the benefits outweigh them, as has been the case
in general with console game systems (Sony, Nintendo etc all control
what games can be released for their systems). However, EA's attempts
to control user content in The Sims has made me give such restrictions
a closer look.

> > With luck
> > there will be some other way to get software on it.
> 
> write the software yourself, or jailbreak it.

I have the skills for neither. If I do get an iPad I will probably just
live with the apple store, but a third party app installer would be a
nice option.

-- 
Chris Mack       "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan'             - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'

On 3/23/2010 8:48 AM, chrisv wrote:

> I bet Apple has a very good idea of how to maximize profits by
> constraining their customers in various ways.


I bet the proprietary products your company sells are done so to 
maximize profits, and also constrain customers in various ways.

There's a good little hypocrite.

On 3/23/2010 6:11 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> DFS pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> On 3/22/2010 8:19 PM, Moshe wrote:
>>
>> <repeated nonsense snipped>
>>
>> Use Windows 7 for a while, then go back to a Gnome-based Linux distro
>> and you can see why.
>
> I completely prefer Linux over Win 7, though with a Fluxbox window manager.
>
> Going from Linux to Win 7 is like taking a bicycle from pavement to beach
> sand.


You must be running very old, very slow, very obsolete hardware.

Any cheapo system with a P4 ~2.6ghz+ CPU, 2gb of RAM (yes, I think it's 
ridiculous), and an ATI 9600+ card will run all versions of Win7 with 
good responsiveness.  Such a machine is about $350 today.

Even low-end Atom-based netbooks run Win7 pretty well.

Fa-groon <fa-groon@mad.com> writes:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:18:29 -0700, nospam wrote
> (in article <230320100418297640%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
>
>> In article <hoa6jo$r42$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>> 
>>>> actually, yes it does. it even includes a usb cable in the box. plug it
>>>> into a computer and transfer music, photos, videos, apps and more as
>>>> well as charge it.
>>> 
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10443031-1.html
>>> 
>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/ten-things-missing-from-the-ipad/
>> 
>> those say it lacks usb *ports*, not that it lacks usb (along with a lot
>> of not particularly accurate criticisms). 
>> 
>> the kindle doesn't have usb ports either. why aren't you slamming that?
>
> Because this Peter Koehlmann jerk doesn't hate Kindle readers, he hates ALL 
> APPLE products!

Peter Koehlmann hates everyone. We in COLA believe it's because he's a
Linux fanboi who hates himself for earning his money from being a closed
source Windows programmer and user. We suspect his career has bottomed
out as a result of constantly pushing his Windows SW company to make
Linux OSS SW only to find there is no money in it: hence he is ridiculed
and laughed at. His outlet for his frustrations and failings is COLA.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes:

> In article <hobk5q$ftj$03$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> >> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
>> >> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
>> > 
>> > yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled for
>> > no reason (or even for a reason)?
>> 
>> German newspaper "Bild". German weekly magazine "Der Stern"
>> And they weren't the only ones
>
> you mean bild's app where you shake the app and the girl takes off her
> clothes?? that's *not* a newspaper app.
>
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/mar/09/bild-iphone-app>
>
> apple was getting a *lot* of complaints about apps such as that. they
> don't want porn in the store, no more than walmart or numerous other
> stores do. of course when someone *other* than apple chooses not to
> carry porn, it's no big deal.
>
> there are plenty of other options if you want to look at naked bodies.

Das Bild is the closest Peter gets to seeing naked girls since his Mom
wont let him access "naughty sites" at home in her basement.

"D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> writes:

> In article <230320101746176676%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
>  nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> so you're ok with letting children see porn?
>
> Yes, better they should be ignorant of the human body and sexuality, and 
> grow up with screwed-up attitudes towards sex.
>
> Meanwhile, they can watch all the violence they want.
>
> It's OK to show someone slashing a woman's breast but not caressing it.

And the applications which are dedicated to generating such images are?

If you want to be a clueless dickhead, fine, but dont inflict it on the
rest of us.

Porn, like slash movies, can all be seen on the iTouch/Pad/Whatever.

What part of Apple dont carry APPSLICATIONS which specialise in it
confuses you?

you can STILL access whatever crap you want via the browser or standard
libraries of video.

Fa-groon wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
> 
>> Fa-groon wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>> 
>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>> 
>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector that
>>> go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip that
>>> conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad, the
>>> only thing that is
>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>> adaptor.
>> 
>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
> 
> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.

I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem

>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
> 
> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did? 

There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally devoid 
of any "reason"

> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?

Why do you?
-- 
If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous.

nospam wrote:

>In article <0JWdna5t_O7GvzTWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
><alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.  Not have to have 
>> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.
>
>that's fine, but unfortunately for you, apple isn't making the ipad for
>just you. 

Idiot.

>they're making it for what they think most people will be using.

They're making it for what will make them the most profit, even if
that means making design decisions, when view objectively, are
customer-hostile.

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:nq2kq5t9etkteuqffl13paa1spn8mp573s@4ax.com...

STFU you stupid ahole useless dumbfsck turd.

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:230320101756394016%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <hobnle$4if$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> What part of "the iPad does not have a USB connector" was too difficult
>> for you?
>
> what part of it comes with a usb cable and plugs into a usb port on a
> computer is too difficult for you?
>
> no, you can't plug a hard drive or a printer into it. so what? that's
> not how it's intended to be used. you can't plug a hard drive or
> printer into a kindle either,

The iPad is not a Kindle. It is a revolutionary and magical device touted by 
your Lord Steve Jobs as being  much more than a Kindle..  It does not have a 
USB port. Or an SD reader. Or Firewire. Or printing capabilities.  Is that 
the "revolutionary" part or the "magical" part?  It looks like it's another 
book reader in color.

>but of course, there's no issue there
> because it's not filthy apple. you are as transparent as the glass on
> the front of the ipad. 

"Peter K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message 
news:hocgh7$jgk$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> Fa-groon wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>
>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>
>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>>>
>>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector that
>>>> go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip that
>>>> conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad, the
>>>> only thing that is
>>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>>> adaptor.
>>>
>>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
>>
>> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.
>
> I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem
>
>>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
>>
>> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did?
>
> There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally devoid
> of any "reason"
>
>> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?
>
> Why do you?
> -- 
> If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous.

FYI:  He is a sock puppet of George Graves who is a well known lunatic.  He 
was ousted from this group in disgrace with his tail between his legs like a 
whipped cur by another troll.

If you keep picking at him, he will give one of his famous disjointed, 
raving,babbling, and rambling, diatribes. You will really appreciate it. 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

nospam wrote:
> In article <pan.2010.03.22.16.10.10.772538@nospam.invalid>, chrisv
> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> "Additional cost" is an extremely lame, dare I say "asinine", excuse for
>> not having USB ports in a premium-priced product like the iPad.
> 
> if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
> money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
> fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.

A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using a
USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
a USB cable. A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
an Ethernet cable. This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
their system using a USB drive.

Not having USB is very short sighted.

Ian
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JEDIDIAH pulled this Usenet boner:


Plonked by Subject.

-- 
You are scrupulously honest, frank, and straightforward.  Therefore you
have few friends.

Ian Hilliard <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> >
> > if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
> > money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
> > fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.
>
> A typical user IS going to want to ...

First off, there's a tad of a difference between an "if..then" logical
generalization and making a declarative prediction of the future.


> ...transfer content in an out using a USB-Stick.

Perhaps, but let's also keep in mind that USB is merely one particular
implementation *of* a capability (connectivity).   As such, the first
question to be asked is if the device already has adequate
connectivity via other means?   WiFi and Bluetooth come to mind:  how
hard would it be to back up the connectivity question to whatever
device _wrote_ onto the USB Stick and simply do a wireless transfer?
Or if its not in the temporal vicinity, then via an email (via WiFi or
3G) transfer?

When all you have is a USB "hammer", then all of your problems will
assume to be "nails".


> A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
> a USB cable.

Apple is selling an OEM solution for IIRC, $29.

> A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
> an Ethernet cable.

Have you stayed in a low range business class domestic hotel anytime
in the past, oh... half decade?   Chains like the Hampton Inn have
installed free WiFi, since this was less expensive to refit into each
room than hardwired Ethernet.

> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
> Ethernet adapter.

If you frequently encounter only a hardwired Ethernet cable, then a
whopping $25 will get you the accessory of something like a D-Link
DI-624 802.11g WIFI router.


> A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
> their system using a USB drive.

More typically, a user is probably going to want an easy way to manage
all of whatever type of data that he wishes to snych onto the device.
This is perhaps why Apple ships the iPad with a USB cable, which would
be plugged into a host Mac/PC and integrated with iTunes:  the
existing desktop/laptop serves as the server and data backup...and it
is listed on Apple's Tech Specs page as a system  requirement (just
like all of their iPods have been for years)


> Not having USB is very short sighted.

Perhaps, but you do need to make a more compelling argument to
convince some readers.   And if you're going to affirm your claim that
typical users ARE going to demand having the hardwired USB feature,
then we should probably also ask what the repercussions are if you've
made an error:  how is your prediction to be objectively and
quantitatively measured?  Otherwise, your assertion is effectively as
useless as any old random string of numbers which are claimed to be
next week's winning Powerball numbers.

If you wish to persist, then detail out your claim's metrics (win/
lose), and decide how many $$ you're going to offer up to be held by
some trustworthy third party for whatever second party may very well
disagree with you and thus, take you up on your prediction.


-hh

In article <j0mo77-ve5.ln1@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:

> D.F. Manno <dfmanno@mail.com> writes:
> > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> so you're ok with letting children see porn?
> >
> > Yes, better they should be ignorant of the human body and sexuality, and 
> > grow up with screwed-up attitudes towards sex.
> >
> > Meanwhile, they can watch all the violence they want.
> >
> > It's OK to show someone slashing a woman's breast but not caressing it.
> 
> And the applications which are dedicated to generating such images are?
> 
> If you want to be a clueless dickhead, fine, but dont inflict it on the
> rest of us.
> 
> Porn, like slash movies, can all be seen on the iTouch/Pad/Whatever.
> 
> What part of Apple dont carry APPSLICATIONS which specialise in it
> confuses you?
> 
> you can STILL access whatever crap you want via the browser or standard
> libraries of video.

The question wasn't whether Apple could keep certain apps off its 
platforms. I don't dispute that they can. The question (and you can tell 
it was the question because I quoted it in my reply) was about letting 
children watch porn. I have less of a problem with that than I do with 
letting them watch violence on movies, TV and first-person-shooters.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

In article <4baa2dca$1@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
<nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:

> A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using a
> USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
> a USB cable. 

you've done surveys? didn't think so.

> A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
> an Ethernet cable.

it's *far* more convenient to use wifi.

> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
> Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
> their system using a USB drive.

it's trivial to back up an ipad, ipod touch or iphone. oddly enough,
it's via usb.

nospam wrote:

> In article <4baa2dca$1@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
> <nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> 
>> A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using a
>> USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
>> a USB cable.
> 
> you've done surveys? didn't think so.

Well, you don't want to transfer images from the camera to your shiny new 
toy?
 
>> A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
>> an Ethernet cable.
> 
> it's *far* more convenient to use wifi.

Certainly. *Especially* when you want to transfer some photos from your 
digital camera to the iPad.
After all, everyone and his cat knows that cameras *always* have WiFi 
built in

>> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
>> Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
>> their system using a USB drive.
> 
> it's trivial to back up an ipad, ipod touch or iphone. oddly enough,
> it's via usb.

Too bad that it just does not work for the iPad without hooking it up to 
yet another gear
-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

In article <hodj82$3m0$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using a
> >> USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
> >> a USB cable.
> > 
> > you've done surveys? didn't think so.
> 
> Well, you don't want to transfer images from the camera to your shiny new 
> toy?

personally, no. i'd rather copy them to a computer and adjust them on a
22" display. if i need more space for more photos, i'll just buy more
flash cards (they're cheap) or get a hard drive based portable storage
device.

the ipad is not ideal for dumping photos during a shoot. however, for
those who do want to transfer photos directly, there's a way to do
that.

> >> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
> >> Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
> >> their system using a USB drive.
> > 
> > it's trivial to back up an ipad, ipod touch or iphone. oddly enough,
> > it's via usb.
> 
> Too bad that it just does not work for the iPad without hooking it up to 
> yet another gear

hilarious. how exactly do you do a backup without connecting it to
something else?

Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> > Ian Hilliard  <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
>
> >> A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using a
> >> USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera usin=
g
> >> a USB cable.
>
> > you've done surveys? didn't think so.
>
> Well, you don't want to transfer images from the camera to your shiny
> new toy?

It will probably be adequate for casual peepers, for the basic reason
that they're not going to have many pics and those that they do have
will be JPEGs.

However, trying to use it as a photographer's "Digital Wallet" is
problematic because of its relatively small 16-32-64GB storage
capacities.   For a baseline, Hyperdrive's current product line now
starts at 160GB and has sizes up to 640GB.


> >> A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
> >> an Ethernet cable.
>
> > it's *far* more convenient to use wifi.
>
> Certainly. *Especially* when you want to transfer some photos from your
> digital camera to the iPad.
> After all, everyone and his cat knows that cameras *always* have WiFi
> built in

If you've been paying attention to the camera market, you would know
that WiFi is one of the new emerging camera features.  A related one
is integrated GPS to permit EXIF-automated Geo-Location tagging.


> >> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
> >> Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back u=
p
> >> their system using a USB drive.
>
> > it's trivial to back up an ipad, ipod touch or iphone. oddly enough,
> > it's via usb.
>
> Too bad that it just does not work for the iPad without hooking it up to
> yet another gear

Which was the apparently-too-subtle-for-you clue that its not intended
to be a standalone (like a Netbook).


-hh

-hh wrote:
> Peter K=C3=B6hlmann<peter-koehlm...@t-online.de>  wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>> Ian Hilliard<nos...@hilliardtech.com>  wrote:
>>
>>>> A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using =
a
>>>> USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera us=
ing
>>>> a USB cable.
>>
>>> you've done surveys? didn't think so.
>>
>> Well, you don't want to transfer images from the camera to your shiny
>> new toy?
>
> It will probably be adequate for casual peepers, for the basic reason
> that they're not going to have many pics and those that they do have
> will be JPEGs.
>
> However, trying to use it as a photographer's "Digital Wallet" is
> problematic because of its relatively small 16-32-64GB storage
> capacities.   For a baseline, Hyperdrive's current product line now
> starts at 160GB and has sizes up to 640GB.
>
>
>>>> A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
>>>> an Ethernet cable.
>>
>>> it's *far* more convenient to use wifi.
>>
>> Certainly. *Especially* when you want to transfer some photos from you=
r
>> digital camera to the iPad.
>> After all, everyone and his cat knows that cameras *always* have WiFi
>> built in
>
> If you've been paying attention to the camera market, you would know
> that WiFi is one of the new emerging camera features.  A related one
> is integrated GPS to permit EXIF-automated Geo-Location tagging.
>
>
>>>> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
>>>> Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back=
 up
>>>> their system using a USB drive.
>>
>>> it's trivial to back up an ipad, ipod touch or iphone. oddly enough,
>>> it's via usb.
>>
>> Too bad that it just does not work for the iPad without hooking it up =
to
>> yet another gear
>
> Which was the apparently-too-subtle-for-you clue that its not intended
> to be a standalone (like a Netbook).
>
>
> -hh
>
There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular=20
memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.

--=20
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.    "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net           http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com

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- -hh wrote:
> Ian Hilliard <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>> if the typical user isn't going to use the usb ports, it's a waste of
>>> money, regardless of cost. the ipad is also not premium priced. in
>>> fact, people were surprised that it didn't cost *more*.
>> A typical user IS going to want to ...
> 
> First off, there's a tad of a difference between an "if..then" logical
> generalization and making a declarative prediction of the future.
> 
> 
>> ...transfer content in an out using a USB-Stick.
> 
> Perhaps, but let's also keep in mind that USB is merely one particular
> implementation *of* a capability (connectivity).   As such, the first
> question to be asked is if the device already has adequate
> connectivity via other means?   WiFi and Bluetooth come to mind:  how
> hard would it be to back up the connectivity question to whatever
> device _wrote_ onto the USB Stick and simply do a wireless transfer?
> Or if its not in the temporal vicinity, then via an email (via WiFi or
> 3G) transfer?
> 
> When all you have is a USB "hammer", then all of your problems will
> assume to be "nails".
> 
> 
>> A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
>> a USB cable.
> 
> Apple is selling an OEM solution for IIRC, $29.
> 
>> A typical user is occasionally going to want to connect to
>> an Ethernet cable.
> 
> Have you stayed in a low range business class domestic hotel anytime
> in the past, oh... half decade?   Chains like the Hampton Inn have
> installed free WiFi, since this was less expensive to refit into each
> room than hardwired Ethernet.
> 
>> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
>> Ethernet adapter.
> 
> If you frequently encounter only a hardwired Ethernet cable, then a
> whopping $25 will get you the accessory of something like a D-Link
> DI-624 802.11g WIFI router.
> 

If you have to carry this, where is the point in having a light weight
portable device.

> 
>> A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
>> their system using a USB drive.
> 
> More typically, a user is probably going to want an easy way to manage
> all of whatever type of data that he wishes to snych onto the device.
> This is perhaps why Apple ships the iPad with a USB cable, which would
> be plugged into a host Mac/PC and integrated with iTunes:  the
> existing desktop/laptop serves as the server and data backup...and it
> is listed on Apple's Tech Specs page as a system  requirement (just
> like all of their iPods have been for years)

The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement. As such, there is the need
to be able to read documents and other content provided by others. The
most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick. There aren't
always WLAN or bluetooth available. In many cases, the only way to share
documents with Windows users is by using a USB Stick.

If ITunes is where you have to get your media, then you might as well
stick with an IPod or an IPhone.

> 
> 
>> Not having USB is very short sighted.
> 
> Perhaps, but you do need to make a more compelling argument to
> convince some readers.   And if you're going to affirm your claim that
> typical users ARE going to demand having the hardwired USB feature,
> then we should probably also ask what the repercussions are if you've
> made an error:  how is your prediction to be objectively and
> quantitatively measured?  Otherwise, your assertion is effectively as
> useless as any old random string of numbers which are claimed to be
> next week's winning Powerball numbers.

I know what people do with netbooks and I do with my netbook. There is
no point in carrying something as large as an IPad, unless you can use
it like a netbook.

> 
> If you wish to persist, then detail out your claim's metrics (win/
> lose), and decide how many $$ you're going to offer up to be held by
> some trustworthy third party for whatever second party may very well
> disagree with you and thus, take you up on your prediction.
> 

The IPad is more expensive than the new generation netbooks, yet it
doesn't offer flash or the ability to exchange documents using a USB
Stick. At this point, I don't see any reason go for an IPad for $499,
when a current netbook is $399 and the next generation will be around $199.

I am sure that Apple will do their damnedest to market the IPad, but at
this point, there is no compelling reason to get one. In the mean time,
I will stick with my netbook and MacBook.

> 
> -hh

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In article <hodmv9$182$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Phillip Jones
<pjones1@kimbanet.com> wrote:

> There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular 
> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.

as little as $49:

<http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>

In article <4baa5f4f$2@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
<nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:

> The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement. 

no it isn't.

> As such, there is the need
> to be able to read documents and other content provided by others. 

it can do that.

> The
> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick.

no, the most convenient way is wirelessly.

> There aren't
> always WLAN or bluetooth available.In many cases, the only way to share
> documents with Windows users is by using a USB Stick.

maybe in some cases, but hardly 'many.'

> If ITunes is where you have to get your media, then you might as well
> stick with an IPod or an IPhone.

but with a smaller screen.  

> I know what people do with netbooks and I do with my netbook. There is
> no point in carrying something as large as an IPad, unless you can use
> it like a netbook.

nonsense.

> The IPad is more expensive than the new generation netbooks, yet it
> doesn't offer flash or the ability to exchange documents using a USB
> Stick. At this point, I don't see any reason go for an IPad for $499,
> when a current netbook is $399 and the next generation will be around $199.

then don't get one. others have different needs.

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nospam wrote:
> In article <hodj82$3m0$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>>>> A typical user IS going to want to transfer content in an out using a
>>>> USB-Stick. A typical user is going to want to hook up to a camera using
>>>> a USB cable.
>>> you've done surveys? didn't think so.
>> Well, you don't want to transfer images from the camera to your shiny new 
>> toy?
> 
> personally, no. i'd rather copy them to a computer and adjust them on a
> 22" display. if i need more space for more photos, i'll just buy more
> flash cards (they're cheap) or get a hard drive based portable storage
> device.
> 
> the ipad is not ideal for dumping photos during a shoot. however, for
> those who do want to transfer photos directly, there's a way to do
> that.
> 
>>>> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
>>>> Ethernet adapter. A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
>>>> their system using a USB drive.
>>> it's trivial to back up an ipad, ipod touch or iphone. oddly enough,
>>> it's via usb.
>> Too bad that it just does not work for the iPad without hooking it up to 
>> yet another gear
> 
> hilarious. how exactly do you do a backup without connecting it to
> something else?

I love it how fanbois will try to justify the unjustifiable to support
some company.

Apple make a lot of great products, but the only reason to buy something
is because it solves some problem. At this point, the IPad seems to be a
product without a market.

Ian
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In article <4baa6135$1@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
<nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:

> Apple make a lot of great products, but the only reason to buy something
> is because it solves some problem. At this point, the IPad seems to be a
> product without a market.

or maybe others have different needs than you do. ever think of that?

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:55:18 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hocgh7$jgk$00$1@news.t-online.com>):

> Fa-groon wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
>> 
>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>> 
>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>>>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>>> 
>>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector that
>>>> go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip that
>>>> conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad, the
>>>> only thing that is
>>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>>> adaptor.
>>> 
>>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
>> 
>> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.
> 
> I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem
> 
>>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
>> 
>> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did? 
> 
> There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally devoid 
> of any "reason"
> 
>> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?
> 
> Why do you?
> 

I'm not dishonest. I stated quite clearly that I agree with you that it was a 
mistake to leave out a standard USB port on the iPad. You cut it because it 
didn't fit your preconceived notion of an "Apple fanboi" and sounded like a 
reasonable criticism, That was dishonest and I would NEVER do that to you or 
anybody else. 

Fa-groon wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:55:18 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
> (in article <hocgh7$jgk$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
> 
>> Fa-groon wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>> 
>>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>>> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>> 
>>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter
>>>>>>> Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector
>>>>> that go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip
>>>>> that conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad,
>>>>> the only thing that is
>>>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>>>> adaptor.
>>>> 
>>>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
>>> 
>>> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.
>> 
>> I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem
>> 
>>>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
>>> 
>>> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did?
>> 
>> There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally
>> devoid of any "reason"
>> 
>>> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?
>> 
>> Why do you?
>> 
> 
> I'm not dishonest. 

You are. Extremely so. You have even lied about what I have saying

> I stated quite clearly that I agree with you that it
> was a mistake to leave out a standard USB port on the iPad. You cut it
> because it didn't fit your preconceived notion of an "Apple fanboi" 

You have simply no idea at all why I cut it, and it fits your appearance 
of a dishoenst cargo cult member nicely that you attribute reasons to me 
which come right from your nether regions

Might it somehow enter your extremely tiny brain that I did not feel it 
necessary to respond to something obvious, like "it is an error not to 
have USB ports on the iPad"?

> and sounded like a reasonable criticism, That was dishonest 

No, it was not . I usually snip those parts of a post I am not replying to
You are in no position to tell me what I have to respond to and in what 
way

> and I would NEVER do that to you or anybody else.

Irrelevant crap from a dishonest and lying apple fanboi
-- 
Ogden's Law:
 The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

In article <4baa5f4f$2@news.x-privat.org>,
 Ian Hilliard <nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:

> > More typically, a user is probably going to want an easy way to manage
> > all of whatever type of data that he wishes to snych onto the device.
> > This is perhaps why Apple ships the iPad with a USB cable, which would
> > be plugged into a host Mac/PC and integrated with iTunes:  the
> > existing desktop/laptop serves as the server and data backup...and it
> > is listed on Apple's Tech Specs page as a system  requirement (just
> > like all of their iPods have been for years)
> 
> The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement. As such, there is the need
> to be able to read documents and other content provided by others. The
> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick.

Really? This is your argument? You really think more documents get moved 
around every day on USB sticks than via, say, e-mail?


[snip]

-- 
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
> > There is a wifi =A0memory card that you use in place of your regular
> > memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
>
> as little as $49:
>
> <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>


That product is used to effectively refit an "old" [current] digital
camera with a WiFi capability.

I believe that I've read that it can also be used with an SD-CF
adaptor for use in a CF-based [dSLR] digital camera, but haven't
checked into it yet.


-hh

Ian Hilliard wrote:

> The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement. 


Actually, this is not the case. It is touted as a new device between
smartphones and laptops. (netbooks are in the laptop category).

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nospam wrote:
> In article <4baa5f4f$2@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
> <nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> 
>> The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement. 
> 
> no it isn't.

It is actually.

> 
>> As such, there is the need
>> to be able to read documents and other content provided by others. 
> 
> it can do that.
> 
>> The
>> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick.
> 
> no, the most convenient way is wirelessly.

I know from my MacBook, that it is not easy to exchange data with
Windows boxes, in particular if they Windows box is locked down. Then
there are many cases where WLAN just isn't available.

> 
>> There aren't
>> always WLAN or bluetooth available.In many cases, the only way to share
>> documents with Windows users is by using a USB Stick.
> 
> maybe in some cases, but hardly 'many.'

In my experience, in most cases. Companies don't let external parties on
their company network.

> 
>> If ITunes is where you have to get your media, then you might as well
>> stick with an IPod or an IPhone.
> 
> but with a smaller screen.  

....and a much lighter weight.

> 
>> I know what people do with netbooks and I do with my netbook. There is
>> no point in carrying something as large as an IPad, unless you can use
>> it like a netbook.
> 
> nonsense.

Where is the advantage of the $499 IPad over a $200 netbook? The netbook
gives better access to the Internet in that it can play youtube. The
IPad can't. The netbook can be used to save, process and mail pictures
while on the road. The netbook can be used to write a presentation while
sitting in cattle class on a plane. The netbook allows you to keep your
documents in an encrypted partition on a thumbdrive on your keychain.
The industry doesn't quite understand what the target market for the
IPad is and I don't either.

> 
>> The IPad is more expensive than the new generation netbooks, yet it
>> doesn't offer flash or the ability to exchange documents using a USB
>> Stick. At this point, I don't see any reason go for an IPad for $499,
>> when a current netbook is $399 and the next generation will be around $199.
> 
> then don't get one. others have different needs.

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ZnU wrote:
> In article <4baa5f4f$2@news.x-privat.org>,
>  Ian Hilliard <nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> 
>>> More typically, a user is probably going to want an easy way to manage
>>> all of whatever type of data that he wishes to snych onto the device.
>>> This is perhaps why Apple ships the iPad with a USB cable, which would
>>> be plugged into a host Mac/PC and integrated with iTunes:  the
>>> existing desktop/laptop serves as the server and data backup...and it
>>> is listed on Apple's Tech Specs page as a system  requirement (just
>>> like all of their iPods have been for years)
>> The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement. As such, there is the need
>> to be able to read documents and other content provided by others. The
>> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick.
> 
> Really? This is your argument? You really think more documents get moved 
> around every day on USB sticks than via, say, e-mail?
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 

You need access to the Internet to use email. If you were a road
warrior, you would understand that it is not always available or
affordable. Also, in my experience, those pretty presentations with a
lot of graphics end up being 20MB to 30MB. There are few mail handlers
that will handle files that big.

That is not to mention photos. 15 megapixel photos are a bit too big for
email. HD video of a presentation ends up being a few Gigabytes. That is
just too big to send wirelessly.

Ian
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Ian Hilliard <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> - -hh wrote:
> > Ian Hilliard <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> This would have been possible with an Apple USB to
> >> Ethernet adapter.
>
> > If you frequently encounter only a hardwired Ethernet cable, then a
> > whopping $25 will get you the accessory of something like a D-Link
> > DI-624 802.11g WIFI router.
>
> If you have to carry this, where is the point in having a light weight
> portable device.

Carrying along one's own Ethernet cable isn't necessarily tiny,
either.

FWIW, I have a collection of cables that I've carried over the years
for my laptops, including one of those yo-yo sized retractable ones
which often proves to be (frustratingly) a foot too short.   Roughy
speaking, a standard 5m CAT 5E cable is roughly the same 'bulk' as
this D-Link.



> >> A typical user is going to want to be able to back up
> >> their system using a USB drive.
>
> > More typically, a user is probably going to want an easy way to manage
> > all of whatever type of data that he wishes to snych onto the device.
> > This is perhaps why Apple ships the iPad with a USB cable, which would
> > be plugged into a host Mac/PC and integrated with iTunes: =A0the
> > existing desktop/laptop serves as the server and data backup...and it
> > is listed on Apple's Tech Specs page as a system =A0requirement (just
> > like all of their iPods have been for years)
>
> The IPad is touted as a netbook replacement.

The pundits are making that claim, typically in their criticisms of
the product.

But that doesn't make it so.   As such, can you name someone at Apple
who has clearly said that the iPad is a "netbook replacement"?   A
cite here would be quite helpful.


> As such, there is the need
> to be able to read documents and other content provided by others. The
> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick. There aren't
> always WLAN or bluetooth available. In many cases, the only way to share
> documents with Windows users is by using a USB Stick.

In general, I find email to be far more ubiquitous & easy, but this
does assume connectivity.  In business circles, 3G cards are expensive
but no longer rare.

I do see your point, however, and what I think that you're really
trying to say is that USB is the more convenient tool to use --> when
you're limited to doing sneaker-net transfers <--.   With that caveat,
I don't strongly disagree.   I will, however, make note that given how
many Windows laptops I've seen on WiFi trying to be their own hub, I'd
be somewhat inclined to suggest that wireless synching between
individual machines is (a) possible, and (b) likely to become more
common, assuming that malware issues can be kept in line.


> If ITunes is where you have to get your media, then you might as well
> stick with an IPod or an IPhone.

I was predominantly thinking of what I'll call the "starting" content
for a typical user, who will want to have some subset of their music,
pictures, etc, with them.   The other part of this question is the
mechanisms for accessing new content, and for that, there's the entire
internet, via a web browser and whatever wireless connection.


> >> Not having USB is very short sighted.
>
> > Perhaps, but you do need to make a more compelling argument to
> > convince some readers. =A0 And if you're going to affirm your claim tha=
t
> > typical users ARE going to demand having the hardwired USB feature,
> > then we should probably also ask what the repercussions are if you've
> > made an error: =A0how is your prediction to be objectively and
> > quantitatively measured? =A0Otherwise, your assertion is effectively as
> > useless as any old random string of numbers which are claimed to be
> > next week's winning Powerball numbers.
>
> I know what people do with netbooks and I do with my netbook. There is
> no point in carrying something as large as an IPad, unless you can use
> it like a netbook.

So how much larger is it than a Kindle?   :-)

I think that much of this entire debate is really focused on a
presumption of how the iPad gets pigeon-holed in its 'what is it?'
definition.   For example, if we say that we don't quite know what it
is...but we know that its NOT a laptop or netbook, then how much of
these debates regarding specific features become indeterminate at this
time?



> > If you wish to persist, then detail out your claim's metrics (win/
> > lose), and decide how many $$ you're going to offer up to be held by
> > some trustworthy third party for whatever second party may very well
> > disagree with you and thus, take you up on your prediction.
>
> The IPad is more expensive than the new generation netbooks, yet it
> doesn't offer flash or the ability to exchange documents using a USB
> Stick. At this point, I don't see any reason go for an IPad for $499,
> when a current netbook is $399 and the next generation will be around $19=
9.

If what you want is a netbook, then this isn't it...end of story, end
of debate.

FWIW, my Porsche does a really lousy job hauling dirt & rock like a
pickup truck can.  As such, if what I wanted was a pickup truck, then
I shouldn't have bought a sports car...end of story, end of debate.


> I am sure that Apple will do their damnedest to market the IPad, but at
> this point, there is no compelling reason to get one. In the mean time,
> I will stick with my netbook and MacBook.

FWIW, I'm currently taking a wait-and-see attitude towards the
product.  Some elements of it sound more interesting than a Kindle,
but because I recognize that I cannot assume that it is going to
replicate what I know a laptop/netbook does, the result is that
there's still a lot of blanks to be filled in for what its utility
really is.  As such, my position can be summarized as:  "I don't
necessarily know quite what it is, but I know what it is NOT".

As such, I'm trying to avoid making the basic mistake of comparing it
against what I know it isn't.


-hh

nospam wrote:
> In article<hodmv9$182$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Phillip Jones
> <pjones1@kimbanet.com>  wrote:
>
>> There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular
>> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
>
> as little as $49:
>
> <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>
last I checked when it first came out was about $250.00.

I'd consider getting one.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.    "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net           http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com

In article <4baa7bc6@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
<nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:

> >> The
> >> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick.
> > 
> > no, the most convenient way is wirelessly.
> 
> I know from my MacBook, that it is not easy to exchange data with
> Windows boxes, in particular if they Windows box is locked down. Then
> there are many cases where WLAN just isn't available.

that's an issue with the locked down windows boxes, not the ipad.

> >> There aren't
> >> always WLAN or bluetooth available.In many cases, the only way to share
> >> documents with Windows users is by using a USB Stick.
> > 
> > maybe in some cases, but hardly 'many.'
> 
> In my experience, in most cases. Companies don't let external parties on
> their company network.

some do, some don't. you can always use peer to peer, email, or access
it via their web site, something most companies have.

> >> If ITunes is where you have to get your media, then you might as well
> >> stick with an IPod or an IPhone.
> > 
> > but with a smaller screen.  
> 
> ...and a much lighter weight.

the ipad is lighter than your laptop, and do you really want to read a
book on a small screen? 

> Where is the advantage of the $499 IPad over a $200 netbook? The netbook
> gives better access to the Internet in that it can play youtube. The
> IPad can't.

it can't play youtube? what's the youtube app do then? do people even
think about what they say? apparently not.

and how does a netbook have better access to the internet than an ipad
with a built in 3g radio that has a very inexpensive data plan, with no
contract required?

> The netbook can be used to save, process and mail pictures
> while on the road. 

the ipad can do that too, but not everyone does that.

> The netbook can be used to write a presentation while
> sitting in cattle class on a plane.

not everyone does that either. i generally see people watching movies
on their laptops when on a plane.

> The netbook allows you to keep your
> documents in an encrypted partition on a thumbdrive on your keychain.

or keep them encrypted on the device itself. 

> The industry doesn't quite understand what the target market for the
> IPad is and I don't either.

the industry has an idea. others, not so much.

In article <4baa7d9c$1@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
<nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:

> You need access to the Internet to use email. 

to send/receive yes, but not to read and respond. many people use email
while offline.

> If you were a road
> warrior, you would understand that it is not always available or
> affordable.

the 3g plan for the ipad is one of the most affordable data plans ever
offered on any mobile device.

> Also, in my experience, those pretty presentations with a
> lot of graphics end up being 20MB to 30MB. There are few mail handlers
> that will handle files that big.

so how would you be sending this from a laptop?

> That is not to mention photos. 15 megapixel photos are a bit too big for
> email. HD video of a presentation ends up being a few Gigabytes. That is
> just too big to send wirelessly.

wait until you get to the office or back home. it's not like a laptop
would avoid this limitation, you know.

In article <hodunf$p5o$2@news.eternal-september.org>, Phillip Jones
<pjones1@kimbanet.com> wrote:

> >> There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular
> >> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
> >
> > as little as $49:
> >
> > <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>
> last I checked when it first came out was about $250.00.

i don't recall it ever being that expensive. i think the first one was
$99 or $129 or somewhere around there.

ironically, people said the eye-fi card was a stupid idea, would never
work because the antenna is inside the camera, it's too slow, etc. all
without ever having touched one. looks like they were wrong.

nospam wrote:

> In article <4baa7d9c$1@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
> <nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> 
>> You need access to the Internet to use email.
> 
> to send/receive yes, but not to read and respond. many people use email
> while offline.
> 
>> If you were a road
>> warrior, you would understand that it is not always available or
>> affordable.
> 
> the 3g plan for the ipad is one of the most affordable data plans ever
> offered on any mobile device.

As long as you stay in the US and in a covered area

And no, it is by no means cheap. And its going to cost you reams of dough 
if you are overseas

>> Also, in my experience, those pretty presentations with a
>> lot of graphics end up being 20MB to 30MB. There are few mail handlers
>> that will handle files that big.
> 
> so how would you be sending this from a laptop?

Insert USB stick, done

>> That is not to mention photos. 15 megapixel photos are a bit too big
>> for email. HD video of a presentation ends up being a few Gigabytes.
>> That is just too big to send wirelessly.
> 
> wait until you get to the office or back home. 

Why would he do that. By avoiding this idiotic toy and getting a netbook 
(for a lot less money) he can do it on the spot

> it's not like a laptop would avoid this limitation, you know.

It would. In several possible ways.
-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

In article <hoe0i9$vvs$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> > the 3g plan for the ipad is one of the most affordable data plans ever
> > offered on any mobile device.
> 
> As long as you stay in the US and in a covered area

nope. the ipad is unlocked out of the box. use it with whatever carrier
you want.

to quote you, "why do you lie?"

> And no, it is by no means cheap. 

it's actually much cheaper than other data plans. the current plans are
either $15/mo for 250 meg or $30/mo for unlimited, no contract, sign up
or cancel at any time.

for comparison, verizon offers 250 meg for $40 or unlimited for $60/mo
*with* a 2 year contract. their pay as you go plan is $15 *per* *day*.

> And its going to cost you reams of dough 
> if you are overseas

get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your hatred
to think of these things.

Ian Hilliard <nos...@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> ZnU wrote:
> >
> > Really? This is your argument? You really think more documents get moved
> > around every day on USB sticks than via, say, e-mail?
>
> > [snip]
>
> You need access to the Internet to use email. If you were a road
> warrior, you would understand that it is not always available or
> affordable.

True to a degree, but a Road Warrior also understands that
"affordability" is entirely negotiable, since it depends upon business
needs.   That's how 4-digit cellphone bills get justified & paid
for.


> Also, in my experience, those pretty presentations with a
> lot of graphics end up being 20MB to 30MB. There are few mail handlers
> that will handle files that big.

Yes, there are the inexperienced Powerpoint Rangers who don't know to
use MS's "save for web" before the final save for email that bomb out
your account while you're on the road.   Similarly, there's also those
trusting fools who send out PPTs rather than smaller ... and
importantly, non-editable ... PDFs.



> That is not to mention photos. 15 megapixel photos are a bit too big for
> email.

An 18MP RAW is 24 megabytes, so sure...but a full size, fine rez JPEG
is around 3.   But the key question is why would one be choosing to
send the full rez version?   Sending the full-rez version to any
destination that's not intending to print a 300dpi version is a waste
of bandwidth.

Plus an alternative is to email is to FTP it.  I haven't checked to
see if there's a dedicated iPhone FTP App, but since FTP is supported
in some web browsers, it may not necessarily even be required...anyone
know?


> HD video of a presentation ends up being a few Gigabytes. That is
> just too big to send wirelessly.

The iPad has a VGA out capability.  Granted, this isn't HD video, but
frankly, I've not seen too many HD presentations yet that didn't come
out of the PR Department's budget (as opposed to something DIY'ed by
the traveller), which took weeks of leadtime (and a budget), which got
delivered as a hardcopy optical disk.  As such, there's arguably
plenty of leadtime to rip a copy to play on a small screen, if that
was what was desired:  creating an HD presentation in the hotel room
the night before the big client meeting is always technically a
possibility, but not a particularly healthy business plan.




-hh

On Mar 24, 5:25=A0pm, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <hodunf$p5...@news.eternal-september.org>, Phillip Jones
>
> <pjon...@kimbanet.com> wrote:
> > >> There is a wifi =A0memory card that you use in place of your regular
> > >> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
>
> > > as little as $49:
>
> > > <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>
> > last I checked when it first came out was about $250.00.
>
> i don't recall it ever being that expensive. i think the first one was
> $99 or $129 or somewhere around there.
>
> ironically, people said the eye-fi card was a stupid idea, would never
> work because the antenna is inside the camera, it's too slow, etc. all
> without ever having touched one. looks like they were wrong.


FWIW, for anyone thinking about buying one, I believe that EyeFi has
just recently announced that they're coming out with a CLASS 6 (I/O
speed) version.   Given how slow SDHC is, its probably worth looking
to see how much the newer/faster version is going to cost before
deciding what to buy.


-hh

In article
<3217eb66-2bc8-48e2-8a2e-a94e1e322363@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> > That is not to mention photos. 15 megapixel photos are a bit too big for
> > email.
> 
> An 18MP RAW is 24 megabytes, so sure...but a full size, fine rez JPEG
> is around 3.   But the key question is why would one be choosing to
> send the full rez version?   Sending the full-rez version to any
> destination that's not intending to print a 300dpi version is a waste
> of bandwidth.

but then the rants wouldn't sound as good.

i'm surprised he didn't pick a 24 megapixel camera, or even the 60
megapixel phase one back. 

> Plus an alternative is to email is to FTP it.  I haven't checked to
> see if there's a dedicated iPhone FTP App, but since FTP is supported
> in some web browsers, it may not necessarily even be required...anyone
> know?

there are dozens of apps that do ftp.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hoe0i9$vvs$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> > the 3g plan for the ipad is one of the most affordable data plans
>> > ever offered on any mobile device.
>> 
>> As long as you stay in the US and in a covered area
> 
> nope. the ipad is unlocked out of the box. use it with whatever carrier
> you want.

So much for your claim of "most affordable data plans"
You have to get *another* data plan then?

> to quote you, "why do you lie?"

Yes, why do you? You have continuously lied in these threads.
 
>> And no, it is by no means cheap.
> 
> it's actually much cheaper than other data plans. the current plans are
> either $15/mo for 250 meg or $30/mo for unlimited, no contract, sign up
> or cancel at any time.

Which you just wanted to throw out, because "its not locked" and other 
meaningless fanboi drivel

And no, I would not call that "affordable". I call that "rip off"

> for comparison, verizon offers 250 meg for $40 or unlimited for $60/mo
> *with* a 2 year contract. their pay as you go plan is $15 *per* *day*.
> 
>> And its going to cost you reams of dough
>> if you are overseas
> 
> get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your hatred
> to think of these things.

Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples screwing 
its customers with just that: Spend more money

Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really are?
-- 
Only two things are infinite,
 the Universe and Stupidity.
And I'm not quite sure about the former.
        - Albert Einstein

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:240320101425502665%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <4baa7bc6@news.x-privat.org>, Ian Hilliard
> <nospam@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
>
>> >> The
>> >> most convenient way of sharing data is the USB Stick.
>> >
>> > no, the most convenient way is wirelessly.
>>
>> I know from my MacBook, that it is not easy to exchange data with
>> Windows boxes, in particular if they Windows box is locked down. Then
>> there are many cases where WLAN just isn't available.
>
> that's an issue with the locked down windows boxes, not the ipad.
>
>> >> There aren't
>> >> always WLAN or bluetooth available.In many cases, the only way to 
>> >> share
>> >> documents with Windows users is by using a USB Stick.
>> >
>> > maybe in some cases, but hardly 'many.'
>>
>> In my experience, in most cases. Companies don't let external parties on
>> their company network.
>
> some do, some don't. you can always use peer to peer, email, or access
> it via their web site, something most companies have.
>
>> >> If ITunes is where you have to get your media, then you might as well
>> >> stick with an IPod or an IPhone.
>> >
>> > but with a smaller screen.
>>
>> ...and a much lighter weight.
>
> the ipad is lighter than your laptop, and do you really want to read a
> book on a small screen?
>
>> Where is the advantage of the $499 IPad over a $200 netbook? The netbook
>> gives better access to the Internet in that it can play youtube. The
>> IPad can't.
>
> it can't play youtube? what's the youtube app do then? do people even
> think about what they say? apparently not.
>
> and how does a netbook have better access to the internet than an ipad
> with a built in 3g radio that has a very inexpensive data plan, with no
> contract required?
>
>> The netbook can be used to save, process and mail pictures
>> while on the road.
>
> the ipad can do that too, but not everyone does that.
>
>> The netbook can be used to write a presentation while
>> sitting in cattle class on a plane.
>
> not everyone does that either. i generally see people watching movies
> on their laptops when on a plane.
>
>> The netbook allows you to keep your
>> documents in an encrypted partition on a thumbdrive on your keychain.
>
> or keep them encrypted on the device itself.
>
>> The industry doesn't quite understand what the target market for the
>> IPad is and I don't either.
>
> the industry has an idea. others, not so much.

You're not winning here, son.  You're only beating a dead horse.  Face it, 
the iPoad is almost a useless POS.  A useless $500 POS. 

On 3/24/2010 12:45 AM, Hadron wrote:

> Peter Koehlmann hates everyone.

He really does.  Have you ever heard him give a kind word to anybody, 
about anything?


> We in COLA believe it's because he's a
> Linux fanboi who hates himself for earning his money from being a closed
> source Windows programmer and user. We suspect his career has bottomed
> out as a result of constantly pushing his Windows SW company to make
> Linux OSS SW only to find there is no money in it: hence he is ridiculed
> and laughed at. His outlet for his frustrations and failings is COLA.


Imagine how the angry Kohlmann harangues his wife and child:

"Nein! Nein! Nein!  I have told you before - zere will be no more 
Windows in zis houssssee!!!"

On 3/23/2010 7:33 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Nope. I just don't like this cult about apple. They simply try to sell
> overpriced crap


But it's not crap, dumbkopf, and various of their systems are not 
overpriced at all.

The software you develop - now that's crap.

On 3/23/2010 8:17 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article<hobn14$938$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>  wrote:
>>
>>> And apple has *no* say in telling people what they can or can't do. Or
>>> what they think a "newspaper app" should be.
>>
>> good thing they're not doing that then.
>>
>> what they're doing is not carrying an app that is little more than soft
>> core porn in their store.
>
> Translation: They are censoring

Like you do with your children, dumbkopf.

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:240320101154418524%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <hodmv9$182$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Phillip Jones
> <pjones1@kimbanet.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular
>> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
>
> as little as $49:

>
> <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>

A low buck POS with limitations. With MacFreaks the price alone would steer 
them away.

In article <hoe40n$296$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> > the 3g plan for the ipad is one of the most affordable data plans
> >> > ever offered on any mobile device.
> >> 
> >> As long as you stay in the US and in a covered area
> > 
> > nope. the ipad is unlocked out of the box. use it with whatever carrier
> > you want.
> 
> So much for your claim of "most affordable data plans"
> You have to get *another* data plan then?

no, you don't have to. it comes with wifi. there's no requirement to
use a 3g data plan whatsoever.

and what if the user doesn't have another data plan? not everyone does,
you know. however, if they have a phone that can tether and a suitable
data plan on it, they can go that route.

so many choices, from a company that controls everything. crazy, huh?

and i doubt very many people will want to swap sim cards between a
phone and an ipad each time they want to use one or the other. what if
they need to make a phone call at the same time they're using the ipad?


> > to quote you, "why do you lie?"
> 
> Yes, why do you? You have continuously lied in these threads.

nope.

> >> And no, it is by no means cheap.
> > 
> > it's actually much cheaper than other data plans. the current plans are
> > either $15/mo for 250 meg or $30/mo for unlimited, no contract, sign up
> > or cancel at any time.
> 
> Which you just wanted to throw out, because "its not locked" and other 
> meaningless fanboi drivel

it's not 'fanboi drivel' to say that it's unlocked when it is in fact,
unlocked. 

if it were locked, you'd be criticizing that. it doesn't matter what
apple does, you hate it, just because it's apple. fortunately, the vast
majority of people are not as closed minded.

> And no, I would not call that "affordable". I call that "rip off"

of course! 

a data plan that is drastically cheaper than any other data plan being
offered by competing carriers, and one without any contract whatsoever,
is a rip off. they should have made it more expensive to match what's
out there. 

crazy.

> >> And its going to cost you reams of dough
> >> if you are overseas
> > 
> > get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your hatred
> > to think of these things.
> 
> Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples screwing 
> its customers with just that: Spend more money

how is it spending more money if you buy a sim local to whatever
country you're visiting to avoid the 'reams of dough' that would be
incurred because of roaming? do you even think these things through?

> Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really are?

what i realize is how utterly ridiculous and hypocritical your posts
are.

In article <aBwqn.46545$sx5.11770@newsfe16.iad>, Mocassin joe
<joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:

> >> There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular
> >> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
> >
> > as little as $49:
> >
> > <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>
> 
> A low buck POS with limitations. With MacFreaks the price alone would steer 
> them away.

you can't see past your hatred of all things mac to even realize that
the card is for a *camera* and doesn't need a mac at all. how sad.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:38:34 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hodpnq$1b5$03$1@news.t-online.com>):

> Fa-groon wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:55:18 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>> (in article <hocgh7$jgk$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>> 
>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>> 
>>>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>>>> (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter
>>>>>>>> Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector
>>>>>> that go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip
>>>>>> that conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the iPad,
>>>>>> the only thing that is
>>>>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>>>>> adaptor.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
>>>> 
>>>> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.
>>> 
>>> I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem
>>> 
>>>>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
>>>> 
>>>> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did?
>>> 
>>> There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally
>>> devoid of any "reason"
>>> 
>>>> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?
>>> 
>>> Why do you?
>>> 
>> 
>> I'm not dishonest. 
> 
> You are. Extremely so. You have even lied about what I have saying
> 
>> I stated quite clearly that I agree with you that it
>> was a mistake to leave out a standard USB port on the iPad. You cut it
>> because it didn't fit your preconceived notion of an "Apple fanboi" 
> 
> You have simply no idea at all why I cut it, and it fits your appearance 
> of a dishoenst cargo cult member nicely that you attribute reasons to me 
> which come right from your nether regions
> 
> Might it somehow enter your extremely tiny brain that I did not feel it 
> necessary to respond to something obvious, like "it is an error not to 
> have USB ports on the iPad"?
> 
>> and sounded like a reasonable criticism, That was dishonest 
> 
> No, it was not . I usually snip those parts of a post I am not replying to
> You are in no position to tell me what I have to respond to and in what 
> way
> 
>> and I would NEVER do that to you or anybody else.
> 
> Irrelevant crap from a dishonest and lying apple fanboi
> 

Go to hell, koehlmann, I am tired of arguing with a lying, irrational, 
Apple-hating cheapskate Linux lover like you. Go back over to COLA where you 
belong. 

Fa-groon wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:38:34 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
> (in article <hodpnq$1b5$03$1@news.t-online.com>):
> 
>> Fa-groon wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:55:18 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>> (in article <hocgh7$jgk$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>> 
>>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>>> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter Köhlmann
>>>>>>> wrote (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter
>>>>>>>>> Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector
>>>>>>> that go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip
>>>>>>> that conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the
>>>>>>> iPad, the only thing that is
>>>>>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>>>>>> adaptor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
>>>>> 
>>>>> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.
>>>> 
>>>> I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem
>>>> 
>>>>>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did?
>>>> 
>>>> There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally
>>>> devoid of any "reason"
>>>> 
>>>>> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?
>>>> 
>>>> Why do you?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm not dishonest.
>> 
>> You are. Extremely so. You have even lied about what I have saying
>> 
>>> I stated quite clearly that I agree with you that it
>>> was a mistake to leave out a standard USB port on the iPad. You cut it
>>> because it didn't fit your preconceived notion of an "Apple fanboi"
>> 
>> You have simply no idea at all why I cut it, and it fits your
>> appearance of a dishoenst cargo cult member nicely that you attribute
>> reasons to me which come right from your nether regions
>> 
>> Might it somehow enter your extremely tiny brain that I did not feel it
>> necessary to respond to something obvious, like "it is an error not to
>> have USB ports on the iPad"?
>> 
>>> and sounded like a reasonable criticism, That was dishonest
>> 
>> No, it was not . I usually snip those parts of a post I am not replying
>> to You are in no position to tell me what I have to respond to and in
>> what way
>> 
>>> and I would NEVER do that to you or anybody else.
>> 
>> Irrelevant crap from a dishonest and lying apple fanboi
>> 
> 
> Go to hell, koehlmann, I am tired of arguing with a lying, irrational,
> Apple-hating cheapskate Linux lover like you. Go back over to COLA where
> you belong.

Too bad for cretins like you that I have never been anywhere else than in 
COLA when telling you what kind of bullshitters you apple cult members 
really are.

It was *your* ilk which invaded COLA with your idiotic drivel about the 
even more idiotic "iPad"

I know it is way too difficult for your extremely tiny brains to grasp, 
but actually most linux users simply laugh about that stupid device
-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

-hh wrote:
> So:  what catagory is the iPad being put into?
> Describe it in detail and not only its salient characteristics, but
> why these are salient.
> If you can't (or won't), then stop whining.  ;^)

And if you can or will, stop whining.

What is the value of putting a "category" label on it?

The question of _practical_ value is does it have what you want or not?

Then you can answer, should you buy it or not?

If you are not employed by Apple's marketing department,
why do you* care about anyone else's answer?

*you = anyone reading, not 'hh

-- 
Wes Groleau

   Methods meddling by amateurs
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=889

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:240320101556049740%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <aBwqn.46545$sx5.11770@newsfe16.iad>, Mocassin joe
> <joemocasanto@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> >> There is a wifi  memory card that you use in place of your regular
>> >> memory card. Last I heard it was couple of hundred bucks though.
>> >
>> > as little as $49:
>> >
>> > <http://www.eye.fi/products/connectx2>
>>
>> A low buck POS with limitations. With MacFreaks the price alone would 
>> steer
>> them away.
>
> you can't see past your hatred of all things mac to even realize that
> the card is for a *camera* and doesn't need a mac at all. how sad.

Yeah - all things Apple are shit. 

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> > > That is not to mention photos. 15 megapixel photos are a bit too big =
for
> > > email.
>
> > An 18MP RAW is 24 megabytes, so sure...but a full size, fine rez JPEG
> > is around 3. =A0 But the key question is why would one be choosing to
> > send the full rez version? =A0 Sending the full-rez version to any
> > destination that's not intending to print a 300dpi version is a waste
> > of bandwidth.
>
> but then the rants wouldn't sound as good.
>
> i'm surprised he didn't pick a 24 megapixel camera, or even the 60
> megapixel phase one back.

FWIW, I recalled my sizes incorrectly:  2-3MB is for an 8MP JPEG.  For
an 18MP JPEG, it grows to around 5-6MB.  Both are at the camera's
maximum ("Fine") JPEG setting, so minimal compression.


> > Plus an alternative is to email is to FTP it. =A0I haven't checked to
> > see if there's a dedicated iPhone FTP App, but since FTP is supported
> > in some web browsers, it may not necessarily even be required...anyone
> > know?
>
> there are dozens of apps that do ftp.

I'm not surprised.


-hh

D.F. Manno wrote:
> Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
> groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
> just your half-assed opinion.

Don't criticize Le Bornefesse.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   Methods meddling by amateurs
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=889

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:59:09 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
(in article <hoech6$6mj$03$1@news.t-online.com>):

> Fa-groon wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:38:34 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>> (in article <hodpnq$1b5$03$1@news.t-online.com>):
>> 
>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:55:18 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>> (in article <hocgh7$jgk$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>> 
>>>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:31:06 -0700, Peter Köhlmann wrote
>>>>>> (in article <hobmga$80m$02$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Fa-groon wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:08:51 -0700, Peter 
>>>>>>>> Köhlmann
>>>>>>>> wrote (in article <hoa408$f29$00$1@news.t-online.com>):
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In article <hoa23k$ems$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Peter
>>>>>>>>>> Köhlmann 
>>>>>>>>>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> USB2 is plenty fast enough for toys like the iPad
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> good thing it has usb 2 then.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Actually, no, it does not
>>>>>>>>> You need an additional Connection Kit for that
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Are you serious? There are a series of pins on the iPad connector
>>>>>>>> that go directly to a USB 2.0 chip (or circuitry on a larger chip
>>>>>>>> that conforms to USB protocols). USB 2.0 IS implemented in the
>>>>>>>> iPad, the only thing that is
>>>>>>>> not  on the iPad is a standard USB connector. For that you need an
>>>>>>>> adaptor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Translation: The iPad does not have a USB connector
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Because you didn't say that to begin with, you dishonest bastard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did. That you are a MAK user and unable to read is not my problem
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Don't you cargo cult members ever try to appear reasonable?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why? So you can snip the reasonable parts like you just did?
>>>>> 
>>>>> There were no "reasonable parts". You guys are fanboiz and totally
>>>>> devoid of any "reason"
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why do you feel it necessary to be so dishonest?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why do you?
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not dishonest.
>>> 
>>> You are. Extremely so. You have even lied about what I have saying
>>> 
>>>> I stated quite clearly that I agree with you that it
>>>> was a mistake to leave out a standard USB port on the iPad. You cut it
>>>> because it didn't fit your preconceived notion of an "Apple fanboi"
>>> 
>>> You have simply no idea at all why I cut it, and it fits your
>>> appearance of a dishoenst cargo cult member nicely that you attribute
>>> reasons to me which come right from your nether regions
>>> 
>>> Might it somehow enter your extremely tiny brain that I did not feel it
>>> necessary to respond to something obvious, like "it is an error not to
>>> have USB ports on the iPad"?
>>> 
>>>> and sounded like a reasonable criticism, That was dishonest
>>> 
>>> No, it was not . I usually snip those parts of a post I am not replying
>>> to You are in no position to tell me what I have to respond to and in
>>> what way
>>> 
>>>> and I would NEVER do that to you or anybody else.
>>> 
>>> Irrelevant crap from a dishonest and lying apple fanboi
>>> 
>> 
>> Go to hell, koehlmann, I am tired of arguing with a lying, irrational,
>> Apple-hating cheapskate Linux lover like you. Go back over to COLA where
>> you belong.
> 
> Too bad for cretins like you that I have never been anywhere else than in 
> COLA when telling you what kind of bullshitters you apple cult members 
> really are.
> 
> It was *your* ilk which invaded COLA with your idiotic drivel about the 
> even more idiotic "iPad"

I never invaded anywhere, I merely responded to an Apple Hating jerk who will 
say anything twist any words to make the object of his hate look bad. 
> 
> I know it is way too difficult for your extremely tiny brains to grasp, 
> but actually most linux users simply laugh about that stupid device

You mean the same way Mac users laugh at the idea of Linux as a viable 
desktop OS? Yeah, I get it. The iPad OS isn't free, doesn't run on computers 
that you cheapskates dumpster-dived to get, works instantly out-of-the-box 
and the apps might actually cost money.  Too bad.

nospam wrote:

>that's an issue with the locked down windows boxes, not the ipad.

Too fscking stupid to understand that "wireless transfer of data" just
isn't easy, in many situations.  So incredibly ignorant and naive.

In article <m1pmq5ljp447vadda7oeihltediuokg5n2@4ax.com>, chrisv
<chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Too fscking stupid to understand that "wireless transfer of data" just
> isn't easy,

maybe not for you, but most people have no problems using wireless. in
fact, it's very easy.

nospam wrote:

> In article <m1pmq5ljp447vadda7oeihltediuokg5n2@4ax.com>, chrisv
> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Too fscking stupid to understand that "wireless transfer of data" just
>> isn't easy,
> 
> maybe not for you, but most people have no problems using wireless. in
> fact, it's very easy.

So you had, in your infinite dishonesty (after all, you are a Mac user) to 
snip his post out of context.

You are really a worthless POS. But then, I already said that you are a 
Mac user
-- 
Just out of curiosity does this actually mean something or have some
of the few remaining bits of your brain just evaporated?

In article <250320100653597575%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> maybe not for you, but most people have no problems using wireless. in
> fact, it's very easy.

.... and slower than ratshit.
-- 
Very old woody beets will never cook tender.
  -- Fannie Farmer

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:250320100653597575%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <m1pmq5ljp447vadda7oeihltediuokg5n2@4ax.com>, chrisv
> <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Too fscking stupid to understand that "wireless transfer of data" just
>> isn't easy,

Snipping in your failed attempt to win?  You are quite the worm.

In article <hoe40n$296$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
 Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> nospam wrote:
> > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> > 
> >> And its going to cost you reams of dough if you are overseas
> > 
> > get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your hatred
> > to think of these things.
> 
> Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples screwing 
> its customers with just that: Spend more money
> 
> Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really are?

On this point, you're the fool. Any half-competent travel agent or 
travel writer will tell people with GSM phones to buy a SIM card 
in-country to avoid paying the exorbitant overseas roaming charges.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

D.F. Manno wrote:

> In article <hoe40n$296$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
>  Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> nospam wrote:
>> > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> > 
>> >> And its going to cost you reams of dough if you are overseas
>> > 
>> > get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your
>> > hatred to think of these things.
>> 
>> Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples
>> screwing its customers with just that: Spend more money
>> 
>> Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really
>> are?
> 
> On this point, you're the fool. Any half-competent travel agent or
> travel writer will tell people with GSM phones to buy a SIM card
> in-country to avoid paying the exorbitant overseas roaming charges.
> 

Yes, just as i said. "Buy *another* one". And another. And yet another
-- 
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
                -- Henry Spencer

Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
> D.F. Manno wrote:
> > In article <hoe40n$296$0...@news.t-online.com>,
> > =A0Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> >> nospam wrote:
> >> > Peter K=F6hlmann wrote:
>
> >> >> And its going to cost you reams of dough if you are overseas
>
> >> > get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your
> >> > hatred to think of these things.
>
> >> Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples
> >> screwing its customers with just that: Spend more money
>
> >> Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really
> >> are?
>
> > On this point, you're the fool. Any half-competent travel agent or
> > travel writer will tell people with GSM phones to buy a SIM card
> > in-country to avoid paying the exorbitant overseas roaming charges.
>
> Yes, just as i said. "Buy *another* one". And another. And yet another


Here's the question:  how much of an effort is it worth to lower your
expenses?

For example, a USA smartphone "roaming" in EU can easily incur an
additional $300/week in expenses.   Do you think saving $300 per
occasion worth the effort buying a local SIM?

Not to be too insulting, but for the "Linux cheapskate" stereotype, I
don't see how they could possibly say No.


Get a clue, Peter:  you're going to pay for Service one way or the
other.



-hh

-hh wrote:

> Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
>> D.F. Manno wrote:
>> > In article <hoe40n$296$0...@news.t-online.com>,
>> > Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>> >> nospam wrote:
>> >> > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>> >> >> And its going to cost you reams of dough if you are overseas
>>
>> >> > get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your
>> >> > hatred to think of these things.
>>
>> >> Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples
>> >> screwing its customers with just that: Spend more money
>>
>> >> Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really
>> >> are?
>>
>> > On this point, you're the fool. Any half-competent travel agent or
>> > travel writer will tell people with GSM phones to buy a SIM card
>> > in-country to avoid paying the exorbitant overseas roaming charges.
>>
>> Yes, just as i said. "Buy *another* one". And another. And yet another
> 
> 
> Here's the question:  how much of an effort is it worth to lower your
> expenses?
> 
> For example, a USA smartphone "roaming" in EU can easily incur an
> additional $300/week in expenses.   Do you think saving $300 per
> occasion worth the effort buying a local SIM?
> 
> Not to be too insulting, but for the "Linux cheapskate" stereotype, I
> don't see how they could possibly say No.
> 
> 
> Get a clue, Peter:  you're going to pay for Service one way or the
> other.
> 

Well, the apple fanboiz wanted it compared to the Kindle. With the 
argument that the kindle costs "only" $10 less than a iPad. And what kind 
of "hypocazy" it is to slam the iPad for it being incredibly overpriced, 
while nothing is said of the Kindle

Well, the cost of the kindle includes the online costs. For lifetime of 
the device. The iPad does not, you pay. And pay. And pay

Either you cretinous cult members stop making incorrect arguments, or they 
will be thrown back into your ugly faces

Got it? Idoubt it that you can actually muster the necessary 2 braincells
-- 
All things are possible, except skiing thru a revolving door.

On 2010-03-24, Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> wrote:
>
>
> In article <230320101708572298%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
><nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article <hobk5q$ftj$03$2@news.t-online.com>, Peter Köhlmann
>> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>> > >> They had *lots* of problems with apple simply pulling their
>> > >> apps nilly willy for no good reason.
>> > > 
>> > > yea sure they did. which newspaper publisher has had an app pulled for
>> > > no reason (or even for a reason)?
>> > 
>> > German newspaper "Bild". German weekly magazine "Der Stern"
>> > And they weren't the only ones
>> 
>> you mean bild's app where you shake the app and the girl takes off her
>> clothes?? that's *not* a newspaper app.
>> 
>> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/mar/09/bild-iphone-app>
>> 
>> apple was getting a *lot* of complaints about apps such as that. they
>> don't want porn in the store, no more than walmart or numerous other
>> stores do. of course when someone *other* than apple chooses not to
>> carry porn, it's no big deal.
>> 
> Which is the one problem with the App store, that while there are other
> stores besides Walmart I can go to if they decide not to carry
> something you can only get iPad software from one place. With luck
> there will be some other way to get software on it.

    Since the ipad is not a proper phone, it provides more potential for
jailbreaking. A lot of people might not want to risk bricking their phone
but trying to crack "just some computer" is probably something that they
would be more comfortable with.

    People loved to crack the AppleTV for awhile.

-- 

   Unauthorized distribution of your work is going to happen. That      ||| 
particular genie left the bottle a long time ago. You can either be    / | \ 
cool about it and possibly gain from it or big the biggest jerk you   
can be and alienate potential fans.

Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
> -hh wrote:
> > Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> D.F. Manno wrote:
> >> > In article <hoe40n$296$0...@news.t-online.com>,
> >> > Peter K=F6hlmann <peter-koehlm...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> >> >> nospam wrote:
> >> >> > Peter K=F6hlmann wrote:
>
> >> >> >> And its going to cost you reams of dough if you are overseas
>
> >> >> > get a local sim and it won't be, but you can't see through your
> >> >> > hatred to think of these things.
>
> >> >> Yes, always "just buy another one". You guys apologize for apples
> >> >> screwing its customers with just that: Spend more money
>
> >> >> Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you cargo cult members really
> >> >> are?
>
> >> > On this point, you're the fool. Any half-competent travel agent or
> >> > travel writer will tell people with GSM phones to buy a SIM card
> >> > in-country to avoid paying the exorbitant overseas roaming charges.
>
> >> Yes, just as i said. "Buy *another* one". And another. And yet another
>
> > Here's the question: =A0how much of an effort is it worth to lower your
> > expenses?
>
> > For example, a USA smartphone "roaming" in EU can easily incur an
> > additional $300/week in expenses. =A0 Do you think saving $300 per
> > occasion worth the effort buying a local SIM?
>
> > Not to be too insulting, but for the "Linux cheapskate" stereotype, I
> > don't see how they could possibly say No.
>
> > Get a clue, Peter: =A0you're going to pay for Service one way or the
> > other.
>
> Well, the apple fanboiz wanted it compared to the Kindle. With the
> argument that the kindle costs "only" $10 less than a iPad. And what kind
> of "hypocazy" it is to slam the iPad for it being incredibly overpriced,
> while nothing is said of the Kindle
>
> Well, the cost of the kindle includes the online costs. For lifetime of
> the device.

Factually incorrect.

The "pay once" only applies for the market for which it was
purchased.  The new Global version of the Kindle does works in Europe,
but if it was purchased in the US you are charged with "roaming"
charges each time you download something via the 3G wireless when out
of the USA.

Currently, this extra cost is a surcharge of $1.99 per book, $4.99 per
week for newspapers/magazines.


> The iPad does not, you pay. And pay. And pay

Just like nearly all other cellular services, and yet this criticism
is being leveled _only_ at Apple?   How hypocritically convenient!

> Either you cretinous cult members stop making incorrect arguments, or the=
y
> will be thrown back into your ugly faces

Likewise.


> Got it? Idoubt it that you can actually muster the necessary 2 braincells

Perhaps not, but at least those "2 braincells" have noticed that you
very conveniently ignored the point being made, which is that roaming
charges suck, regardless of what product it is at hand.

FWIW, I think that my personal cellphone bill record ... which FYI
wasn't on an Apple product ... is $1500 in roaming in a single monthly
bill.  As such, it makes your scratching over nickels and dimes to be
quite childlike.


-hh

In article <hohoqc$kf5$00$3@news.t-online.com>, Peter K�hlmann
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> > On this point, you're the fool. Any half-competent travel agent or
> > travel writer will tell people with GSM phones to buy a SIM card
> > in-country to avoid paying the exorbitant overseas roaming charges.
> > 
> Yes, just as i said. "Buy *another* one". And another. And yet another

except that it's not buy another. since the ipad is pay as you go, you
cancel one and switch to a sim local to the other country. then when
you return, you switch back. but why let facts get in the way.

not to mention that the price of a local sim is negligible in
comparison to the airfare, hotel, ground transportation, food and other
expenses incurred on an overseas trip.

On 2010-03-23, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <slrnhqibva.k1r.jedi@nomad.mishnet>, JEDIDIAH
><jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>>         they never want to share with their friends and family.
>
> the ipad has a nice screen for exactly that, or plug it into a tv.

    That wasn't quite the sort of sharing I was talking about.

    I wasn't just talking about "show and tell".

>
>>         they never want to burn a CD.
>
> netbooks and the kindle don't have cd burners, why should the ipad?

    My netbook can drive a CD burner.

    You might want to clue yourself in before next time.

>
>>         they never want to print a picture.
>
> they can print wirelessly, which means no cable to lose either.

    That remains to be seen. I can't imagine a device this crippled
having a proper printing system. That's assuming they can get 
connected to a printer and all of the "lets go out of our way to 
cater to the crippled monopolyware" sort of steps are handled ahead
of time.

-- 

   Unauthorized distribution of your work is going to happen. That      ||| 
particular genie left the bottle a long time ago. You can either be    / | \ 
cool about it and possibly gain from it or big the biggest jerk you   
can be and alienate potential fans.

[snips]

nospam wrote:

> when i see people using laptops, they rarely, if ever, have something
> plugged into a usb port. the few times they do, it's usually a 3g data
> card, which is built into the ipad (and has substantially cheaper usage
> fees).

That may be true with Apple machines, it ain't true here.

My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
it.

The wife's netbook has the USB mouse, USB key and a USB DVD drive
attached pretty much all the time.  Plus a USB printer, though she swaps
the key and printer back and forth - only so many USB slots.

We each have the same basic problem: too few USB ports per machine. 
Yes, we could get USB hubs, but that's not the point... the notion
people don't use USB on laptops is laughable.

Oh, and yes, we also have a USB roaming wireless network adapter, which
we share about.

And let's not forget the USB phones, which we transfer contacts, photos,
etc, to and from.

Or the USB digital camera.

Or the...

In article <6mj287-tmq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> > when i see people using laptops, they rarely, if ever, have something
> > plugged into a usb port. the few times they do, it's usually a 3g data
> > card, which is built into the ipad (and has substantially cheaper usage
> > fees).
> 
> That may be true with Apple machines, it ain't true here.

it's not just macs.

> My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
> happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
> it.

doesn't sound like a laptop. nice try though.

> The wife's netbook has the USB mouse, USB key and a USB DVD drive
> attached pretty much all the time.  Plus a USB printer, though she swaps
> the key and printer back and forth - only so many USB slots.

ok sample size of one, or two if you also count yours. 

how is that representative of the millions of users out there? 

hint: it isn't.

> We each have the same basic problem: too few USB ports per machine. 
> Yes, we could get USB hubs, but that's not the point... the notion
> people don't use USB on laptops is laughable.

step outside your house for a change. look at people who use laptops in
coffee shops, airports, hotels, conferences, schools, workplaces, etc.
rarely are they using usb devices plugged into their laptops. ignore
the ones using macs if you want. doesn't matter.

and as for people who plug a mouse into a laptop, that's mainly because
the laptop has a shitty trackpad or other pointing device. in other
words, that's not a feature.

On Mar 27, 8:15=A0pm, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snips]
>
> nospam wrote:
> > when i see people using laptops, they rarely, if ever, have something
> > plugged into a usb port. the few times they do, it's usually a 3g data
> > card, which is built into the ipad (and has substantially cheaper usage
> > fees).
>
> That may be true with Apple machines, it ain't true here.

YMMV.  It comes down to utilization factors.


> My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
> happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
> it.
>
> The wife's netbook has the USB mouse, USB key and a USB DVD drive
> attached pretty much all the time. =A0Plus a USB printer, though she swap=
s
> the key and printer back and forth - only so many USB slots.
>
> We each have the same basic problem: too few USB ports per machine.
> Yes, we could get USB hubs, but that's not the point... the notion
> people don't use USB on laptops is laughable.

Our telecommuting Windows laptop typically has 3 connections:  power,
ethernet and a USB mouse.  Of course, this makes sense from the
perspective that its going to be running for 8 hours.

On the road, its pretty strictly zero hardwired connections other than
power.   Used to use USB thumb drives fairly occasionally, but a
security vulnerability had IT slam the door on all use of them 1.5
years ago.



> Oh, and yes, we also have a USB roaming wireless network adapter, which
> we share about.
>
> And let's not forget the USB phones, which we transfer contacts, photos,
> etc, to and from.
>
> Or the USB digital camera.
>
> Or the...

YMMV.   My Blackberry and other phones doesn't really cross with the
laptop much, except when it is in its docking station.  The rest of
the cellphones aren't "smart" phones to need such a hookup.

For the digital camera, I've occasionally borrowed my Blackberry
recharging cable to do double duty, but most times not:   when on the
road, there's not really enough hours in the day to start to play with
post-processing, so I just carry alternative means of data storage
until I can be back home.   Currently, I can store around 60GB without
even bothering to pull out my redundant digital wallets, which are by
today's standards old and small:  they only add another 40GB.

There's no doubt that a hardwired port can be beneficial today.  The
real question is to what degree is it appropriate for the device in
question and the task at hand .. there are going to be applications
where the shortcoming simply isn't that big of a deal.  Too much of
this debate regarding the iPad is because people are trying to
shoehorn force-fit it into the current paradigm / categorization of a
laptop or netbook, which IMO is a significant error.

FWIW, I'm not trying to claim that the iPad is some Godsend device.
Frankly, I'm non-committal and still trying to figure out if it is
worth the price tag, mostly because I'm not fully convinced that I
know the answer to the question of "What is it?" - - it is,
admittedly, intriguing ... but that alone doesn't make it compelling.


-hh

nospam wrote:

> In article <0JWdna5t_O7GvzTWnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.  Not have to have 
>> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.
>
> that's fine, but unfortunately for you, apple isn't making the ipad for
> just you. they're making it for what they think most people will be
> using.

Apparently, Apple is offering an adapter which provides USB and SD
connectors.  Presumably this means they think USB and SD support are
important enough to offer them.

So, did they build them in like most everyone else does, at the cost of
maybe a couple extra bucks' price on the tag?  No, they offered a more
expensive option, which actually makes the whole "dangly thing"
situation _worse_ than if the ports were built in, and reqiuring
another, small, easy-to-misplace item instead.

It's a great way to make more money off the devices.  It's a *lousy* way
to support USB or SD, or improve the "dangly bit" problem.

$29 to go from "No danglies, but no USB" to "USB, but way excessive
danglies and easy to lose", rather than $5 or so to get the sort of
normal USB support one would expect in such a device. Yeah, good call
- for the profit margin.

nospam wrote:

> In article <hoa7mf$ot4$12@news.eternal-september.org>, Chris Ahlstrom
> <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>
>> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
>> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
>> > just your half-assed opinion.
>> 
>> Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?
>
> why does it matter where they do the research?

Well, let's see:

If I'm doing a study on whether I should set up a store in town selling
Adult products, notably kink-friendly toys and the like, should I do my
market research at:

a) The local church
b) The local play party
c) The local play party and several other adult-oriented events

Since you need to ask the question, presumably you think the local
church would be an ideal place for such research.

You can't be that stupid, can you?

In article <92n287-rss.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apparently, Apple is offering an adapter which provides USB and SD
> connectors.  Presumably this means they think USB and SD support are
> important enough to offer them.

they're important to some people, but apple doesn't think there are
enough of them to warrant putting into the device. 

whether that's true or not remains to be seen. if apple sells zillions
of the adapters, then obviously there's a demand and the next model
might have a built in slot. if they don't sell that well, then apple's
decision to leave them out was wise.

In article <dbn287-33t.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
> >> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
> >> > just your half-assed opinion.
> >> 
> >> Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?
> >
> > why does it matter where they do the research?
> 
> Well, let's see:
> 
> If I'm doing a study on whether I should set up a store in town selling
> Adult products, notably kink-friendly toys and the like, should I do my
> market research at:
> 
> a) The local church
> b) The local play party
> c) The local play party and several other adult-oriented events
> 
> Since you need to ask the question, presumably you think the local
> church would be an ideal place for such research.

that's one of the more creative comebacks i've seen in a while.

> You can't be that stupid, can you?

nope. but apparently you are. 

go learn about doing actual market research.

In article <92n287-rss.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>,
 Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> nospam wrote:
> > Alan Browne wrote:
> >
> >> My opinion is that I want USB ports right on the iPad.  Not have to have 
> >> to carry yet another small, easy to lose accessory in my briefcase.
> >
> > that's fine, but unfortunately for you, apple isn't making the ipad for
> > just you. they're making it for what they think most people will be
> > using.
> 
> Apparently, Apple is offering an adapter which provides USB and SD
> connectors.  Presumably this means they think USB and SD support are
> important enough to offer them.
> 
> So, did they build them in like most everyone else does, at the cost of
> maybe a couple extra bucks' price on the tag?

You don't know what it would cost. You're pulling that number out of 
your ass.

> No, they offered a more
> expensive option, which actually makes the whole "dangly thing"
> situation _worse_ than if the ports were built in, and reqiuring
> another, small, easy-to-misplace item instead.

You would rather force everybody to pay for USB/SD support, including 
those who don't want and may never need it, because you want it. Why 
should everybody pay for what you want?

> It's a great way to make more money off the devices.

You don't know that, either. Let's say it costs $3 to put it in every 
iPad, adding $10 to the retail price (because a price ending in nine is 
important), versus $30 for the adapter, which they sell for $50. Let's 
say they sell 2 million iPads the first year, and only 50,000 adapters. 
Putting it in every iPad would have meant $14 million in added revenue, 
while the adapters would mean only $1 million.

So it's not automatically true that going the adapter route means more 
money for Apple. It depends on numbers that nobody has, not you, not 
even Apple, not yet.

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

In article <6mj287-tmq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>,
 Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
> happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
> it.
> 
> The wife's netbook has the USB mouse, USB key and a USB DVD drive
> attached pretty much all the time.  Plus a USB printer, though she swaps
> the key and printer back and forth - only so many USB slots.
> 
> We each have the same basic problem: too few USB ports per machine. 
> Yes, we could get USB hubs, but that's not the point... the notion
> people don't use USB on laptops is laughable.
> 
> Oh, and yes, we also have a USB roaming wireless network adapter, which
> we share about.
> 
> And let's not forget the USB phones, which we transfer contacts, photos,
> etc, to and from.
> 
> Or the USB digital camera.

If you're already lugging that much stuff around with you, what's one 
more adapter?

-- 
D.F. Manno
dfmanno@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

 "D.F. Manno" <dfma...@mail.com> wrote:
> =A0Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, they offered a more
> > expensive option, which actually makes the whole "dangly thing"
> > situation _worse_ than if the ports were built in, and reqiuring
> > another, small, easy-to-misplace item instead.
>
> You would rather force everybody to pay for USB/SD support, including
> those who don't want and may never need it, because you want it. Why
> should everybody pay for what you want?

I predominantly use CF.  So since the argument is to be a "Photo Do
All", you have to add a CF slot too.

BTW, my brother uses some lousy Olympus cameras ... xD card.  Add that
slot too.

That pretty much leave's Sony's Memory Stick out in the cold.  Yup,
one more card slot.

Of course, there's also mini-SD and micro-SD .. should Apple put in
two more ports for these, so as to avoid having introducing two tiny
"easy to misplace" SD adaptors?


Damn that slippery slope!   :-)



-hh

On Mar 28, 12:17=A0am, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> =A0"D.F. Manno" <dfma...@mail.com> wrote:
>
> > =A0Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > No, they offered a more
> > > expensive option, which actually makes the whole "dangly thing"
> > > situation _worse_ than if the ports were built in, and reqiuring
> > > another, small, easy-to-misplace item instead.
>
> > You would rather force everybody to pay for USB/SD support, including
> > those who don't want and may never need it, because you want it. Why
> > should everybody pay for what you want?
>
> I predominantly use CF. =A0So since the argument is to be a "Photo Do
> All", you have to add a CF slot too.
>
> BTW, my brother uses some lousy Olympus cameras ... xD card. =A0Add that
> slot too.
>
> That pretty much leave's Sony's Memory Stick out in the cold. =A0Yup,
> one more card slot.
>
> Of course, there's also mini-SD and micro-SD .. should Apple put in
> two more ports for these, so as to avoid having introducing two tiny
> "easy to misplace" SD adaptors?
>
> Damn that slippery slope! =A0 :-)
>
> -hh

I have a Dell monitor that has an 11-1 card reader. My laptop 13-1
card reader.   reads them all except CF cards I believe. Only my
Prosumer Canon 50D uses it though. Even my new 7D has gone SDHC.

Quit making excuses for Apple bilking you.

[snips]

nospam wrote:

>> My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
>> happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
>> it.
>
> doesn't sound like a laptop. nice try though.

Don't care what it sounds like - it's a laptop.  And when it goes mobile
with me, those devices generally all go with it.


>> The wife's netbook has the USB mouse, USB key and a USB DVD drive
>> attached pretty much all the time.  Plus a USB printer, though she swaps
>> the key and printer back and forth - only so many USB slots.
>
> ok sample size of one, or two if you also count yours. 
>
> how is that representative of the millions of users out there? 
>
> hint: it isn't.

Doesn't need to be.  You made an assertion where even a trivial sampling
is sufficient to show it bullshit.  I gave you just such a sampling.

If you want to add the laptops around the office, there's about six of
them - *all* with USB mice.

Or friend Claire's machine - USB mouse, USB printer.

Most of the laptop users I know who also use desktops regularly also
have USB keys, for efficient transferring of data... to and from their
laptops.  If you need to take data off the PC and onto the laptop, it
makes more sense to plug in they key, copy and go, than to dig out the
laptop, fire it up, log in, mount a share (or equivalent), copy the data
over, log out, shut down the laptop, pack it away and _then_ go.

In fact, *every* person I've met who uses the laptop for more than just
occasional use (eg checking emails while on the road) has at least one
or two USB devices for the machine.


>> We each have the same basic problem: too few USB ports per machine. 
>> Yes, we could get USB hubs, but that's not the point... the notion
>> people don't use USB on laptops is laughable.
>
> step outside your house for a change. look at people who use laptops in
> coffee shops, airports, hotels, conferences, schools, workplaces, etc.

Perfect example - coffee shops.  I tend to go to these moderately
frequently, as do a lot of laptop-using folks - almost all of whom have
mice, and from the dongles stuck in the USB ports, they tend to be USB
mice.

And, of course, there's a *wide* variety of USB mice for laptops
available at most any computer retailer - a product which would be hard
to find if, as you assert, there was no market for it, it being such a
rarely-used item.

> rarely are they using usb devices plugged into their laptops. ignore
> the ones using macs if you want. doesn't matter.

Actually, they _often_ have such devices.  USB mice, because
I'm far from the only one who hates the track pads.  USB thumb drives,
because transferring data via stick is endlessly more efficient in many
cases.

> and as for people who plug a mouse into a laptop, that's mainly because
> the laptop has a shitty trackpad or other pointing device. in other
> words, that's not a feature.

Actually, the trackpad in my laptop is particularly nice.  Sensitive to
motion, it allows quick but precise positioning.  Not quite so sensitive
to pressure, but if you tap it, it acts as a mouse button.  It has two
"regular" mouse buttons as well, and a "slider" which works to control
vertical scroll bars.  Very slick, works like a charm.  It also has an
on/off button, used to enable and disable the track pad, and it's
virtually always in the "off" position - because despite it being a
particularly _good_ trackpad, it's still a _trackpad_, which is just
nowhere near as comfortable a device to use as a mouse, at least for me,
and, judging by the popularity of laptop mice, this is true for many
other people as well.

So, yeah, sorry, having USB is a definite feature, and *not* having it
is about as brain-dead as you can get - unless you're after additional
coin by charging for additional devices to fix  your own damned design
flaws.

In article
<9651680b-51dc-496e-b757-b6297b8382ca@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a Dell monitor that has an 11-1 card reader. My laptop 13-1
> card reader.   reads them all except CF cards I believe. Only my
> Prosumer Canon 50D uses it though. Even my new 7D has gone SDHC.

how many types of cards do you have? 1? maybe 2?

do you really think apple should have put a card reader in the ipad
that can read 13 types of cards?

In article
<d36a3b39-d07b-474f-8c01-b0d5851b3322@j21g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> I predominantly use CF.  So since the argument is to be a "Photo Do
> All", you have to add a CF slot too.
> 
> BTW, my brother uses some lousy Olympus cameras ... xD card.  Add that
> slot too.
> 
> That pretty much leave's Sony's Memory Stick out in the cold.  Yup,
> one more card slot.
> 
> Of course, there's also mini-SD and micro-SD .. should Apple put in
> two more ports for these, so as to avoid having introducing two tiny
> "easy to misplace" SD adaptors?

don't forget those old cameras that took pcmcia cards. you just never
know who might still be using one.

D.F. Manno wrote:

> In article <6mj287-tmq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>,
>  Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
>> happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
>> it.
>> 
>> The wife's netbook has the USB mouse, USB key and a USB DVD drive
>> attached pretty much all the time.  Plus a USB printer, though she swaps
>> the key and printer back and forth - only so many USB slots.
>> 
>> We each have the same basic problem: too few USB ports per machine. 
>> Yes, we could get USB hubs, but that's not the point... the notion
>> people don't use USB on laptops is laughable.
>> 
>> Oh, and yes, we also have a USB roaming wireless network adapter, which
>> we share about.
>> 
>> And let's not forget the USB phones, which we transfer contacts, photos,
>> etc, to and from.
>> 
>> Or the USB digital camera.
>
> If you're already lugging that much stuff around with you, what's one 
> more adapter?
>

What's one more completely pointless adapter that has no justification
for existiing, apart from Apple being too barking stupid to put a USB
port on a machine which so obviously needs one?  And then *charging* you
to pay for this fix to its idiotic design flaw?

Oh, nothing at all.

Of course, one might note that the USB keys, which typically hold the
most sensitive data, _also_ tend to have loops to attach them to
keychains, necklaces and the like - I didn't see any such thing on this
adapter.  Apparently, fiddly items which might get lost easily shouldn't
be designed to be attached to anything.  Can't charge twice for it if
the user can't lose it, right?

And where, exactly, did you get the notion we cart all this stuff around
with us?  We certainly don't take the printer, as a rule.  The USB keys
go on chains, for safe keeping, and the rest are items too big to
overlook - you won't find the external drive hiding behind the coffee
cup, or worse, on the chair where you didn't see it before you sat on it.

The mice are a good size, too - none of this "micromouse" crap, these
are full-sized mice.

Besides which, of what relevance is mobility to whether there is a USB
port on the device or not?  Oh, right, you're just dodging the MaxiPad's
idiotic design flaws by bringing in screaming irrelevancies.  

D.F. Manno wrote:

> You don't know that, either. Let's say it costs $3 to put it in every 
> iPad, adding $10 to the retail price (because a price ending in nine is 
> important), versus $30 for the adapter, which they sell for $50.


It is also quite possible that Apple started off with intentions to put
as much on the device as they could, including firewire, USB/master and
USB/slave, 3d HD camera, dolby 5.1 microphones, holographic 3d screen
display etc etc.

Then, when the "dream" device is priced, they say "we have to cut some
things" (or if the hardware required to implement everything is too big).

And when they start to cut stuff out is when they have to start to
prioritise. Between removing USB-master plug and removing the button to
prevent automatic orientation changes, they would have looked at the
marketing value of each feature against the hardware cost of each and
decided that cutting the USB-master was the least-worse decision.

In article <4m2387-525.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> My machine regularly has a USB wireless mouse, an external drive (which
> >> happens to be eSata, but supports USB), and a 16Gb USB key hanging off
> >> it.
> >
> > doesn't sound like a laptop. nice try though.
> 
> Don't care what it sounds like - it's a laptop.  And when it goes mobile
> with me, those devices generally all go with it.

you carry all that stuff wherever you go??

> Doesn't need to be.  You made an assertion where even a trivial sampling
> is sufficient to show it bullshit.  I gave you just such a sampling.

nope. i made an assertion based on several years of seeing people in
public and what they do with their computers. just the other day at the
airport and on the plane, nobody had anything plugged into their
laptops, other than a power cord (and only sometimes).

> > rarely are they using usb devices plugged into their laptops. ignore
> > the ones using macs if you want. doesn't matter.
> 
> Actually, they _often_ have such devices.  USB mice, because
> I'm far from the only one who hates the track pads.  USB thumb drives,
> because transferring data via stick is endlessly more efficient in many
> cases.

you haven't used good trackpads then. there are some shitty ones, and
there are some very good ones. 

> > and as for people who plug a mouse into a laptop, that's mainly because
> > the laptop has a shitty trackpad or other pointing device. in other
> > words, that's not a feature.
> 
> Actually, the trackpad in my laptop is particularly nice.

i thought you hated them.

> So, yeah, sorry, having USB is a definite feature, and *not* having it
> is about as brain-dead as you can get - unless you're after additional
> coin by charging for additional devices to fix  your own damned design
> flaws.

which still doesn't answer the question on what would you do with a
mouse on a device that has no cursor and is designed for touch.

In article <4a3387-ve5.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> > If you're already lugging that much stuff around with you, what's one 
> > more adapter?

> What's one more completely pointless adapter that has no justification
> for existiing, apart from Apple being too barking stupid to put a USB
> port on a machine which so obviously needs one?  And then *charging* you
> to pay for this fix to its idiotic design flaw?

or maybe they realize that it's not really a flaw.

what's stupid are the idiots who whine that the ipad isn't what *they*
think it should be.

don't like it? don't buy it. 

if it's really a flaw, sales will suck and next year there will be some
changes.

> Of course, one might note that the USB keys, which typically hold the
> most sensitive data, _also_ tend to have loops to attach them to
> keychains, necklaces and the like - I didn't see any such thing on this
> adapter.  Apparently, fiddly items which might get lost easily shouldn't
> be designed to be attached to anything.  Can't charge twice for it if
> the user can't lose it, right?

do you actually go out in public with a usb keychain around your neck?

> And where, exactly, did you get the notion we cart all this stuff around
> with us?  

probably because you listed them.

> We certainly don't take the printer, as a rule. 

that's a relief.

> The mice are a good size, too - none of this "micromouse" crap, these
> are full-sized mice.

of course not. do you tie it to a button loop so you don't lose it?
after all, it's too big to fit in a pocket.

In article <4baedef5$0$9619$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> It is also quite possible that Apple started off with intentions to put
> as much on the device as they could, including firewire, USB/master and
> USB/slave, 3d HD camera, dolby 5.1 microphones, holographic 3d screen
> display etc etc.

how is anyone going to watch avatar on the ipad if there's no
holographic 3d screen. 

nevermind usb, that was a big mistake right there.

it's going to fail.

[snips]

D.F. Manno wrote:

>> So, did they build them in like most everyone else does, at the cost of
>> maybe a couple extra bucks' price on the tag?
>
> You don't know what it would cost. You're pulling that number out of 
> your ass.

For $83, I can get a board which contains:

Intel Atom processor
Sata Controller
IDE Controller
GB Lan
5.1 Audio controller
Video controller
PCI slot
Mini-DIN mouse port
Mini-DIN keyboard port
IEEE Parallel port
RS-232 Serial Port
RJ-45 Network Jack
3 miniphone audio ports (mic, line in, line out)
1 S/PDIF connector
**FOUR** USB ports
**TWO** additional USB connectors (for front-panel hookups)

If they can stuff all that on a board for $83 - that's $83 Cdn - then
sorry, the notion that USB ports cost more than a buck or two a pop,
tops, is simply lunacy.

I know you Apple Fanbois love to defend Apple's idiocies at whatever
cost, but let's not be *too* damned foolish about it, what say?

> You would rather force everybody to pay for USB/SD support, including 
> those who don't want and may never need it, because you want it. Why 
> should everybody pay for what you want?

You really are insane, aren't you?

Apple *could* have chosen to use industry-standard connectors, available
for cheap almost everywhere.  No, not them.  They chose, instead, to do
the R&D and testing and package design and so on and so fifth, to build
their own screwball connectors, then _more_ to design "adapters" to turn
these screwball connectors into something useful to the rest of the
world.

In your mind, it's *cheaper* to design and test your own custom crap,
than to use existing, tested, proven technologies which are available
for pennies a piece?

Oh, and *who* exactly gets to pay for this idiocy?  Right - *every*
*single* *user*.  Don't whine to me about "everyone should pay" - whine
to Apple.


>> It's a great way to make more money off the devices.
>
> You don't know that, either. 

Bullshit I don't.  Apple's store says the price for these things is $30.
We *know*, *absolutely*, that the cost of a USB port *cannot* even
approach that, as I can get a board with 4 ports, plus all the other
doodads *and* a CPU, for $83... when the USB ports on the board would
have to cost $120 between the four of them just to make costs *equal* to
the Apple adapter idiocy.

And, let's be honest, Apple is not going to sell these adapters for $30,
if that's what it costs to make them.  If they're selling for $30, they
probably cost less than $5 to actually make - meaning the user is paying
a minimum 500% markup for a device which, had Apple used standard
components, would certainly have cost less than the adapter did before
the markup - and not required Apple R&D to waste time reinventing the
wheel (and passing on those costs to _every_ user) rather than using
existing, standard technologies.


> Let's say it costs $3 to put it in every 
> iPad, adding $10 to the retail price (because a price ending in nine is 
> important), 

Oh, let's not.  Let's do a little digging.  Here's a comment I ran
across:

<quote>
For example, the ECS RS485M-M,[6] a typical modern budget motherboard for computers based on AMD processors, has on-board support for a very large range of peripherals:

    * disk controllers for a floppy disk drive, up to 2 PATA drives, and up to 6 SATA drives (including RAID 0/1 support)
    * integrated ATI Radeon graphics controller supporting 2D and 3D graphics, with VGA and TV output
    * integrated sound card supporting 8-channel (7.1) audio and S/PDIF output
    * Fast Ethernet network controller for 10/100 Mbit networking
    * USB 2.0 controller supporting up to 12 USB ports
    * IrDA controller for infrared data communication (e.g. with an IrDA-enabled cellular phone or printer)
    * temperature, voltage, and fan-speed sensors that allow software to monitor the health of computer components

Expansion cards to support all of these functions would have cost
hundreds of dollars even a decade ago; however, as of April
2007[update] such highly-integrated motherboards are available for as
little as $30 in the USA.
</quote>

That's controllers for *12* USB devices - plus all the other goodies -
for $30.  Using your $3 per port figure, that means the USB
alone constitutes $36 of this board's $30 price tag. 

Hmm.  I see a problem there.  Well, maybe it's because of the fact these
are just controllers, not ports.  What with mass production, a cable to
run from the controller to the case and provide a mounting should be
well under a dollar, but let's call it a buck - meaning that, for
comparison, we should be using a price of $2 per controller.  Or $24 of
the board's $30 cost.  Just for USB.

Sorry, it's crap.  The fact is, USB support is dirt cheap.  Cheap enough
that a $30 board can include support for a dozen USB ports, because,
frankly, the cost is so close to zero as makes no nevermind.

But Apple, well, no, see, when *they* do USB, it's got to cost $3 a
port, because - why was that?  Because you're asserting Apple are
incompetent fuckups who need $3 a pop to do what everyone else manages
to do essentially for free?  If you think Apple are such worthless
screwups, why are you defending them?

Oh, no, wait, I made a mistake.  Your assertion is that it's better for
everyone to pay a portion of the cost for Apple to research, design,
develop, test and produce their own connectors, rather than using
commonplace connectors which are so cheap as to be virtually free - but
somehow you seem to be arguing that the "effectively free" option is the
one it's somehow bad for people to be paying for, rather than the option
involving the R&D and testing and whatnot.  Sorry, doesn't make much
sense.


> versus $30 for the adapter, which they sell for $50.

$50?  To get what, *one* USB port?  Which a $30 board can offer by the
dozen?  

> Let's 
> say they sell 2 million iPads the first year, and only 50,000 adapters. 
> Putting it in every iPad would have meant $14 million in added revenue, 
> while the adapters would mean only $1 million.

Let's say they do put a USB port in each device, selling 2 million of
them.  That's about, oh, 50 cents for the port, if you include cabling
and case mounting, sure.  Now, exactly how much did they spend designing
and creating their screwball alternate connector?  Remove the R&D and
related costs from each device.

Or, in short, by selling the adapters, they add on $50 a pop for what
the consumer would otherwise have had for free.  And you're suggesting
this *isn't* all about raking in the cash?



> So it's not automatically true that going the adapter route means more 
> money for Apple.

The hell it doesn't.

> It depends on numbers that nobody has, not you

Exact numbers?  No.  However, if a $30 board can provide a dozen USB
connectors, plus a mess of other goodies - network, 7.1 audio, video,
IDE, SATA, parallel, floppy, serial, IRDA, temperature sensors, fan
speed sensors, voltage sensors, VGA and TV out, RAID, and who knows what
other bells and whistles... there's no way in hell it can do this if USB
support is $3 a pop.

So what's wrong with Apple, that it costs them $3 a pop to do what
everyone else is doing essentially for free?

nospam wrote:

> In article <dbn287-33t.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > Apple does. They've done this thing called "market research," with focus 
>> >> > groups and surveys and stuff like that. You, on the other hand, have 
>> >> > just your half-assed opinion.
>> >> 
>> >> Where does Apple do all this "research"?  Outside Apple stores?
>> >
>> > why does it matter where they do the research?
>> 
>> Well, let's see:
>> 
>> If I'm doing a study on whether I should set up a store in town selling
>> Adult products, notably kink-friendly toys and the like, should I do my
>> market research at:
>> 
>> a) The local church
>> b) The local play party
>> c) The local play party and several other adult-oriented events
>> 
>> Since you need to ask the question, presumably you think the local
>> church would be an ideal place for such research.
>
> that's one of the more creative comebacks i've seen in a while.
>
>> You can't be that stupid, can you?
>
> nope. but apparently you are. 
>
> go learn about doing actual market research.

Sorry, but it wasn't *me* that asked the asinine question "why does it
matter where they do the research?".  The moron who asked that obviously
hasn't got a fucking clue about the matter.  If he had, he wouldn't need
to ask the question, as our little example above demonstrates.  

One can extend this notion almost endlessly, of course.  One could ask
"what's the most popular OS used by internet users?"  One possible
mechanism for finding this out is to examine the logs of major servers,
see what OS is used to access them.  Of course, if one does this with,
say, microsoft.com, guess what?  Most people are likely to be running
Windows.  Now try it at apple.com - what's that?  Most folks are running
some version of MacOS?  Imagine that.

Whoops, two *completely* different results, defined solely by *where*
the research was done.

Or we could look at something different, such as, oh, acceptance of
evolution versus belief in creationism.  Since our moron up there
doesn't seem to think _where_ the research is done, we should expect the
same results if we do our testing at Caltech as if we do it at Patriot
Bible University.

The fact our resident moron can even *ask* why location matters in
relation to such testing is sufficient on its face to demonstrate he's
far too clueless about anything relevant to have any opinion on the
matter other than the one he pulled while trying to fling faeces.

Since you seem to be claiming some sort of relevant knowledge of the
matter, you should really go have a talk with him, before he asks any
further asinine questions.

In article <au5387-i67.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

> If they can stuff all that on a board for $83 - that's $83 Cdn - then
> sorry, the notion that USB ports cost more than a buck or two a pop,
> tops, is simply lunacy.

and what about writing the necessary drivers, documentation, testing,
etc. ? all that happens magically?

> Apple *could* have chosen to use industry-standard connectors, available
> for cheap almost everywhere.  No, not them.  They chose, instead, to do
> the R&D and testing and package design and so on and so fifth, to build
> their own screwball connectors, then _more_ to design "adapters" to turn
> these screwball connectors into something useful to the rest of the
> world.

what screwball connector is that? the dock connector?

the dock connector is the way it is because they needed *both* firewire
and usb (the original ipod was just firewire, and even had a standard
firewire socket). they also wanted line level (and later video) output
as well as remote control input, with the convenience of just *one*
connector. 

had they used 'industry standard connectors' the ipod would have been
ridiculously huge because it would have needed an array of sockets on
the side. that would have been *stupid*. very stupid. 

> In your mind, it's *cheaper* to design and test your own custom crap,
> than to use existing, tested, proven technologies which are available
> for pennies a piece?

sometimes it can be.

> Bullshit I don't.  Apple's store says the price for these things is $30.
> We *know*, *absolutely*, that the cost of a USB port *cannot* even
> approach that, as I can get a board with 4 ports, plus all the other
> doodads *and* a CPU, for $83... when the USB ports on the board would
> have to cost $120 between the four of them just to make costs *equal* to
> the Apple adapter idiocy.

since it's so cheap to make one, perhaps you should start manufacturing
them and undercut apple. you could charge $20-25, and since it is just
a buck or two to make, you would make a nice healthy profit. 

when can we expect the first shipment?

> So what's wrong with Apple, that it costs them $3 a pop to do what
> everyone else is doing essentially for free?

kindle did the same thing, nobody is bitching.