Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.

Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
the Linturds in COLA deny exist.


http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html

http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx

"I��ve been using GNU/Linux exclusively for 8 years now. I��ve spent a lot
of time with Fedora, Gentoo and Arch Linux. I use it at home, I use it
at work and along the way I��ve converted many Windows users to Linux.
I��ve lived through a lot of driver and software problems with Linux,
hoping that the day would come when it will become a first-class citizen
of the desktop operating systems town. Alas, this day never came and
probably never will.My patience ended this week and I��ll be gradually
moving all my desktop machines back to Windows."

---Snip the gory details


"The Shit I endured"

"Non-existing ethernet/wireless drivers - not so common today, but try
remembering the time circa 2005

Non-existing/crappy audio drivers - got an X-Fi 5 years ago, ALSA driver
was released 3-4 years later and was total piece of garbage, OSS driver
was barely usable. I don��t even get me started on USB audio support -
what a joke�K

Lamest video card drivers ever - most video card drivers for Linux are
so bad I cannot even watch tear-free video. Nvidia have the only decent
video driver, but it��s far from perfect either - no KMS, poor 2D
acceleration. AMD��s drivers are a punishment from the Lord and Intel��s
constantly ��evolving�� drivers are barely usable most of the time. The
video card drivers made me buy and HD media player and an PS3 (for which
I��m thankful), but I have to ask myself - why suffer all this shit
instead of getting a normal desktop OS like OS X or Windows? Did I love
Linux that much? Did I believe that much it��s desktop day would come?
What an idiot I was.

Lack of printer drivers - that��s a funny one. Often printers listed as
having Linux drivers are mostly unusable. The printer that own is listed
as having a ��perfect�� Linux compatability in openprinting.org. If this
is perfect I cannot begin to imagine what is ��poor�� compatibility.

Crappiest suspend/resume support - laptop goes to sleep, but doesn��t
wake up. Wireless dies after wake up. Suspend/resume used to be
something mythical to most Linux users. Recently the situation has
improved a bit it��s still light years away from what you get with
Windows/OSX.

Poor power management - my older laptop��s battery lasted several weeks
while sleeping when I was using Windows on it. When I replaced it with
Linux the battery was being drained in 2 days while the laptop was
sleeping (and I had to wait about half a year for a set of wireless and
video drivers that actually made sleep a possibility)�K I��ve noticed that
as far as dynamic power management is concerned Windows generally
managed to squeeze more time out of the battery, while at the same time
my rig generated less heat (dynamic fan control is another weakness of
Linux).

I��ll stop writing about the driver problems now, because they affect so
many thing. Even my fairly advanced mouse is missing some functions in
Linux. I��m not even mentioning the things like support for ��Turbo
Memory��, Optimus, etc.

Lack of decent office software - call it OpenOffice.org and don��t insult
it anymore�K

Problematic sound architecture - let me be completely blunt - everything
sound related in Linux sucks - OSS, ALSA, PulseAudio (the sucker king).
From a technical standpoint OSS never actually sucked, but since it
wasn��t picked up by the community the project fell into oblivion. How
many of you have enjoy Dolby Digital or DTS sound from their Linux
boxes?

Poor flash support - should I explain? Have you tried it on a 64 bit
distro? Do I hate it? Sure. Do I hope HTML5 will kill it? Sure. Do I
need it? Sure. You think your video drivers work OK under Linux? Have
you tried playing a HD video clip in youtube with flash player at
full-screen? Very few Linux video drivers handle this task properly�K

Poor skype support - Same story as with flash. I keep dreaming of a
world with more intelligent users where GTalk has a conference mode and
everybody��s using it instead of skype.

Poor quality of desktop apps - Known issues in core applications such as
Nautilus don��t get fixed for years. Such things naturally piss me off.
Trying to contribute to the solution of a problem is often met with
apathy by maintainers. Btw Linux users think that Mozilla Firefox is
very slow and memory hungry - but it turns out that the Windows version
is generally performing a lot better (not to mention - supporting
hardware video acceleration).

I can keep listing things here forever. When I come to think about it
for the entire time I��ve been using Linux only one major problem got
resolved - USB devices support. I still remember the days when I had to
write auto mounting policies myself or to use mount manually all the
time. I won��t even mention the quality of most proprietary apps on
Linux, the huge amount of missing essential application and the
unavailability of mainstream video games.

So this is it! Hasta la vista, Linux! You still remain the best server
operating system, though. You��ll always have a special place in my heart
and a VMWare instance on my Windows boxes. "











-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> writes:

> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
>
> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>
> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>
> "I’ve been using GNU/Linux exclusively for 8 years now. I’ve spent a lot
> of time with Fedora, Gentoo and Arch Linux. I use it at home, I use it
> at work and along the way I’ve converted many Windows users to Linux.
> I’ve lived through a lot of driver and software problems with Linux,
> hoping that the day would come when it will become a first-class citizen
> of the desktop operating systems town. Alas, this day never came and
> probably never will.My patience ended this week and I’ll be gradually
> moving all my desktop machines back to Windows."
>
> ---Snip the gory details
>
> "The Shit I endured"
>
> "Non-existing ethernet/wireless drivers - not so common today, but try
> remembering the time circa 2005
>
> Non-existing/crappy audio drivers - got an X-Fi 5 years ago, ALSA driver
> was released 3-4 years later and was total piece of garbage, OSS driver
> was barely usable. I don’t even get me started on USB audio support -
> what a joke…
>
> Lamest video card drivers ever - most video card drivers for Linux are
> so bad I cannot even watch tear-free video. Nvidia have the only decent
> video driver, but it’s far from perfect either - no KMS, poor 2D
> acceleration. AMD’s drivers are a punishment from the Lord and Intel’s
> constantly “evolving” drivers are barely usable most of the time. The
> video card drivers made me buy and HD media player and an PS3 (for which
> I’m thankful), but I have to ask myself - why suffer all this shit
> instead of getting a normal desktop OS like OS X or Windows? Did I love
> Linux that much? Did I believe that much it’s desktop day would come?
> What an idiot I was.
>
> Lack of printer drivers - that’s a funny one. Often printers listed as
> having Linux drivers are mostly unusable. The printer that own is listed
> as having a “perfect” Linux compatability in openprinting.org. If this
> is perfect I cannot begin to imagine what is “poor” compatibility.
>
> Crappiest suspend/resume support - laptop goes to sleep, but doesn’t
> wake up. Wireless dies after wake up. Suspend/resume used to be
> something mythical to most Linux users. Recently the situation has
> improved a bit it’s still light years away from what you get with
> Windows/OSX.
>
> Poor power management - my older laptop’s battery lasted several weeks
> while sleeping when I was using Windows on it. When I replaced it with
> Linux the battery was being drained in 2 days while the laptop was
> sleeping (and I had to wait about half a year for a set of wireless and
> video drivers that actually made sleep a possibility)… I’ve noticed that
> as far as dynamic power management is concerned Windows generally
> managed to squeeze more time out of the battery, while at the same time
> my rig generated less heat (dynamic fan control is another weakness of
> Linux).
>
> I’ll stop writing about the driver problems now, because they affect so
> many thing. Even my fairly advanced mouse is missing some functions in
> Linux. I’m not even mentioning the things like support for “Turbo
> Memory”, Optimus, etc.
>
> Lack of decent office software - call it OpenOffice.org and don’t insult
> it anymore…
>
> Problematic sound architecture - let me be completely blunt - everything
> sound related in Linux sucks - OSS, ALSA, PulseAudio (the sucker king).
> From a technical standpoint OSS never actually sucked, but since it
> wasn’t picked up by the community the project fell into oblivion. How
> many of you have enjoy Dolby Digital or DTS sound from their Linux
> boxes?
>
> Poor flash support - should I explain? Have you tried it on a 64 bit
> distro? Do I hate it? Sure. Do I hope HTML5 will kill it? Sure. Do I
> need it? Sure. You think your video drivers work OK under Linux? Have
> you tried playing a HD video clip in youtube with flash player at
> full-screen? Very few Linux video drivers handle this task properly…
>
> Poor skype support - Same story as with flash. I keep dreaming of a
> world with more intelligent users where GTalk has a conference mode and
> everybody’s using it instead of skype.
>
> Poor quality of desktop apps - Known issues in core applications such as
> Nautilus don’t get fixed for years. Such things naturally piss me off.
> Trying to contribute to the solution of a problem is often met with
> apathy by maintainers. Btw Linux users think that Mozilla Firefox is
> very slow and memory hungry - but it turns out that the Windows version
> is generally performing a lot better (not to mention - supporting
> hardware video acceleration).
>
> I can keep listing things here forever. When I come to think about it
> for the entire time I’ve been using Linux only one major problem got
> resolved - USB devices support. I still remember the days when I had to
> write auto mounting policies myself or to use mount manually all the
> time. I won’t even mention the quality of most proprietary apps on
> Linux, the huge amount of missing essential application and the
> unavailability of mainstream video games.
>
> So this is it! Hasta la vista, Linux! You still remain the best server
> operating system, though. You’ll always have a special place in my heart
> and a VMWare instance on my Windows boxes. "

Yeah, I can empathise with him. It can be a struggle. Which is why I am
amazed when the COLA "lieing for Lienux" types always seem to have it
"just working" - even when someting isn't actually supported in the
kernel! True legends at work in COLA. Amazing even!

It's also why I generally buy older thinkpads or "conservative" netbooks
- my Asus runs debian stable with the liquorix kernels just
fine. Everything "just works" on it. Except for the webcam of course
which is slow, "tears" and is pretty much useless. Oh and suspend to
disk stopped working recently but suspend to ram works fine. OK, the
power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you can get
about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode about 4.5-5
hours and thats with pretty much only using Emacs/Gnus and google chrome
browser - but thats not really an issue for me since if I was on the
move and wanted long hours web browsing I could just use the built in
boot from ROM "os".

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:47:53 +0200, Hadron wrote:


> Yeah, I can empathise with him. It can be a struggle. Which is why I am
> amazed when the COLA "lieing for Lienux" types always seem to have it
> "just working" - even when someting isn't actually supported in the
> kernel! True legends at work in COLA. Amazing even!

It is truly amazing, and lest the Linturds start claiming that some of
what the guy talks about is old, and it is, the point is they have been
denying these problems for YEARS.
This is nothing new here for them.


 
> It's also why I generally buy older thinkpads or "conservative" netbooks
> - my Asus runs debian stable with the liquorix kernels just
> fine. Everything "just works" on it. Except for the webcam of course
> which is slow, "tears" and is pretty much useless. Oh and suspend to
> disk stopped working recently but suspend to ram works fine. OK, the
> power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you can get
> about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode about 4.5-5
> hours and thats with pretty much only using Emacs/Gnus and google chrome
> browser - but thats not really an issue for me since if I was on the
> move and wanted long hours web browsing I could just use the built in
> boot from ROM "os".

These are the very things that will send average Jayne running back to
Windows.

Lenovo at one time a couple of years ago sold a laptop with Linux on it
and many of the features that worked fine with Windows weren't working
with the Linux version!

This was right out of the box!!

Linux desktop is great if your needs are minimal or you like to tinker
but for an average person, Linux desktop is a horrible alternative to
Windows or OSX.


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

Am Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:35:18 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:

> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-
experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html

Saw this on tuxmachines too. I am really amazed by the amount of trolling 
in the comments. You rarely see this much in one place outside this group.

And what is to say about the article...
Mostly complaints about Software programmed and released by amd, nvidia, 
adobe, skype/now microsoft.
I totally agree: It sucks that their software is not as good on Linux as 
on Windows. But in a perfect world only the reputation of the companies 
releasing half-broken software would suffer.

"flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message 
news:1o4tb86jr4oxa$.e1ttzl54twuj.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:47:53 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>
>
>> Yeah, I can empathise with him. It can be a struggle. Which is why I am
>> amazed when the COLA "lieing for Lienux" types always seem to have it
>> "just working" - even when someting isn't actually supported in the
>> kernel! True legends at work in COLA. Amazing even!
>
> It is truly amazing, and lest the Linturds start claiming that some of
> what the guy talks about is old, and it is, the point is they have been
> denying these problems for YEARS.
> This is nothing new here for them.
>
>
>
>> It's also why I generally buy older thinkpads or "conservative" netbooks
>> - my Asus runs debian stable with the liquorix kernels just
>> fine. Everything "just works" on it. Except for the webcam of course
>> which is slow, "tears" and is pretty much useless. Oh and suspend to
>> disk stopped working recently but suspend to ram works fine. OK, the
>> power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you can get
>> about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode about 4.5-5
>> hours and thats with pretty much only using Emacs/Gnus and google chrome
>> browser - but thats not really an issue for me since if I was on the
>> move and wanted long hours web browsing I could just use the built in
>> boot from ROM "os".
>
> These are the very things that will send average Jayne running back to
> Windows.
>
> Lenovo at one time a couple of years ago sold a laptop with Linux on it
> and many of the features that worked fine with Windows weren't working
> with the Linux version!
>
> This was right out of the box!!
>
> Linux desktop is great if your needs are minimal or you like to tinker
> but for an average person, Linux desktop is a horrible alternative to
> Windows or OSX.
>

I have a couple of Linux servers running and I use Linux at work most of the 
time to develop code our customers will run on Linux servers. I could run a 
Linux desktop and I've tried and it just doesn't work for me. The choice of 
software on Windows (both proprietary and OSS) that I use isn't something 
that I can duplicate on Linux. For various reasons I can't get by with just 
OSS software alone.

A couple of months back a self-employed friend/neighbor who makes a living 
on the computer was going to replace 5-6 year old XP desktop machine. This 
person is *always* having some sort of computer/network/printer problem and 
asked me for advice. They're a non computer-geek and I ended up suggesting a 
Mac. So I ran into her the other day and she loves the Mac and wishes she 
bought one years ago. She still owns a Win7 laptop but says her next laptop 
is going to be a Mac as well.

There's really no way that I could in good conscious recommend a Linux 
desktop. If this person were a computer geek they probably wouldn't need to 
ask but then Linux would be a good fit. But to an ordinary computer user I 
don't see it as being the best solution.

Am Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:58:02 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:

> Lenovo at one time a couple of years ago sold a laptop with Linux on it
> and many of the features that worked fine with Windows weren't working
> with the Linux version!
> 
> This was right out of the box!!

So did you complain to Lenovo for not doing their jobs and release a well 
working bundle of hardware + software?

You know what happens then: The customers don't want computers where the 
vendor failed to provide a good user experience.
People can then claim people don't want computers with linux and Lenovo 
can drop the whole thing (did they?).

> Linux desktop is great if your needs are minimal or you like to tinker
> but for an average person, Linux desktop is a horrible alternative to
> Windows or OSX.

It's not really believable to assume that Lenovo really was not able to 
provide a good hardware/software bundle that works. As such a big company 
with so much money you'd really have to be incompetent to fail that.

I think of it as they just didn't put any real effort in it.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:


> I have a couple of Linux servers running and I use Linux at work most of the 
> time to develop code our customers will run on Linux servers. I could run a 
> Linux desktop and I've tried and it just doesn't work for me. The choice of 
> software on Windows (both proprietary and OSS) that I use isn't something 
> that I can duplicate on Linux. For various reasons I can't get by with just 
> OSS software alone.

For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.

 
> A couple of months back a self-employed friend/neighbor who makes a living 
> on the computer was going to replace 5-6 year old XP desktop machine. This 
> person is *always* having some sort of computer/network/printer problem and 
> asked me for advice. They're a non computer-geek and I ended up suggesting a 
> Mac. So I ran into her the other day and she loves the Mac and wishes she 
> bought one years ago. She still owns a Win7 laptop but says her next laptop 
> is going to be a Mac as well.

I have several friends like that.
They are always loading 8 million applications, weatherbug things and so
forth and they ultimately end up grinding the machine to a halt.


 
> There's really no way that I could in good conscious recommend a Linux 
> desktop. If this person were a computer geek they probably wouldn't need to 
> ask but then Linux would be a good fit. But to an ordinary computer user I 
> don't see it as being the best solution.

Me either.
I wouldn't even make it home before my cell phone would be ringing and
the person would be asking me why they can't load Quicken or some other
application they use.

These days, for people like that I suggest a Mac.
My son has a MacBook Pro and it's built like a tank.
Beautiful machine.

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

flatfish+++ wrote:

> 
> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
> 
> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
> 
> 
> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
> 
> "I’ve been using GNU/Linux exclusively for 8 years now. I’ve spent a lot
> of time with Fedora, Gentoo and Arch Linux. I use it at home, I use it
> at work and along the way I’ve converted many Windows users to Linux.
> I’ve lived through a lot of driver and software problems with Linux,
> hoping that the day would come when it will become a first-class citizen
> of the desktop operating systems town. Alas, this day never came and
> probably never will.My patience ended this week and I’ll be gradually
> moving all my desktop machines back to Windows."
> 
> ---Snip the gory details
> 
> 
> "The Shit I endured"
> 
> "Non-existing ethernet/wireless drivers - not so common today, but try
> remembering the time circa 2005
> 
> Non-existing/crappy audio drivers - got an X-Fi 5 years ago, ALSA driver
> was released 3-4 years later and was total piece of garbage, OSS driver
> was barely usable. I don’t even get me started on USB audio support -
> what a joke…



It works for me!!!


This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
departments without facts
is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.



How to attempt to create a bug with Ubuntu
------------------------------------------

Step 1. Install Ubuntu on a random PC.
        http://www.ubuntu.com/

Step 2. Remove the Ubuntu hard drive.

Step 3. Walk to a different PC with different motherboard, graphics card,
        network card, monitor, mouse, keyboard, bluetooth, wifi,
        chipset, printer, webcam and audio system.

Step 4. Connect PC direct to the internet without a firewall or router.
        Just to make life difficult, connect the PC to the dsl modem
        through the USB instead of the ethernet.

Step 5. Plug in Ubuntu hard drive.

Step 6. Press the power button and boot straight back into Linux.
        20 to 40 seconds to boot with modern PC and start browsing internet
        and finish downloading first google page.


So, OK I admit that wouldn't have generated a bug - it will all boot 
without incident. So next up is some deliberate vandalism and sabotage.

Lets yank out the internet cable and then run firefox.

<yank!>

Err... nope - no failure - firefox is still working!!!!

Doh!! 

Its still working if you live in London (or any major UK city)
and you have a wifi on your PC/netbook and you are signed
up for BT Openzone. They have 2.8 million wifi sites around
all the major cities and towns:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25812




> Lamest video card drivers ever - most video card drivers for Linux are
> so bad I cannot even watch tear-free video. Nvidia have the only decent
> video driver, but it’s far from perfect either - no KMS, poor 2D
> acceleration. AMD’s drivers are a punishment from the Lord and Intel’s
> constantly “evolving” drivers are barely usable most of the time. The
> video card drivers made me buy and HD media player and an PS3 (for which
> I’m thankful), but I have to ask myself - why suffer all this shit
> instead of getting a normal desktop OS like OS X or Windows? Did I love
> Linux that much? Did I believe that much it’s desktop day would come?
> What an idiot I was.
> 
> Lack of printer drivers - that’s a funny one. Often printers listed as
> having Linux drivers are mostly unusable. The printer that own is listed
> as having a “perfect” Linux compatability in openprinting.org. If this
> is perfect I cannot begin to imagine what is “poor” compatibility.
> 
> Crappiest suspend/resume support - laptop goes to sleep, but doesn’t
> wake up. Wireless dies after wake up. Suspend/resume used to be
> something mythical to most Linux users. Recently the situation has
> improved a bit it’s still light years away from what you get with
> Windows/OSX.
> 
> Poor power management - my older laptop’s battery lasted several weeks
> while sleeping when I was using Windows on it. When I replaced it with
> Linux the battery was being drained in 2 days while the laptop was
> sleeping (and I had to wait about half a year for a set of wireless and
> video drivers that actually made sleep a possibility)… I’ve noticed that
> as far as dynamic power management is concerned Windows generally
> managed to squeeze more time out of the battery, while at the same time
> my rig generated less heat (dynamic fan control is another weakness of
> Linux).
> 
> I’ll stop writing about the driver problems now, because they affect so
> many thing. Even my fairly advanced mouse is missing some functions in
> Linux. I’m not even mentioning the things like support for “Turbo
> Memory”, Optimus, etc.
> 
> Lack of decent office software - call it OpenOffice.org and don’t insult
> it anymore…
> 
> Problematic sound architecture - let me be completely blunt - everything
> sound related in Linux sucks - OSS, ALSA, PulseAudio (the sucker king).
> From a technical standpoint OSS never actually sucked, but since it
> wasn’t picked up by the community the project fell into oblivion. How
> many of you have enjoy Dolby Digital or DTS sound from their Linux
> boxes?
> 
> Poor flash support - should I explain? Have you tried it on a 64 bit
> distro? Do I hate it? Sure. Do I hope HTML5 will kill it? Sure. Do I
> need it? Sure. You think your video drivers work OK under Linux? Have
> you tried playing a HD video clip in youtube with flash player at
> full-screen? Very few Linux video drivers handle this task properly…
> 
> Poor skype support - Same story as with flash. I keep dreaming of a
> world with more intelligent users where GTalk has a conference mode and
> everybody’s using it instead of skype.
> 
> Poor quality of desktop apps - Known issues in core applications such as
> Nautilus don’t get fixed for years. Such things naturally piss me off.
> Trying to contribute to the solution of a problem is often met with
> apathy by maintainers. Btw Linux users think that Mozilla Firefox is
> very slow and memory hungry - but it turns out that the Windows version
> is generally performing a lot better (not to mention - supporting
> hardware video acceleration).
> 
> I can keep listing things here forever. When I come to think about it
> for the entire time I’ve been using Linux only one major problem got
> resolved - USB devices support. I still remember the days when I had to
> write auto mounting policies myself or to use mount manually all the
> time. I won’t even mention the quality of most proprietary apps on
> Linux, the huge amount of missing essential application and the
> unavailability of mainstream video games.
> 
> So this is it! Hasta la vista, Linux! You still remain the best server
> operating system, though. You’ll always have a special place in my heart
> and a VMWare instance on my Windows boxes. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

"flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message 
news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>

Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO, etc. 
But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.


>> A couple of months back a self-employed friend/neighbor who makes a 
>> living
>> on the computer was going to replace 5-6 year old XP desktop machine. 
>> This
>> person is *always* having some sort of computer/network/printer problem 
>> and
>> asked me for advice. They're a non computer-geek and I ended up 
>> suggesting a
>> Mac. So I ran into her the other day and she loves the Mac and wishes she
>> bought one years ago. She still owns a Win7 laptop but says her next 
>> laptop
>> is going to be a Mac as well.
>
> I have several friends like that.
> They are always loading 8 million applications, weatherbug things and so
> forth and they ultimately end up grinding the machine to a halt.
>
>

BINGO !!!  Her little "tray icon" has at least 18 apps running and there's 
all sorts of toolbars, quick-launchers and whatever else running all over 
their desktop. I know a *lot* of people like this.

And a *lot* of that is the fault of companies like HP, Adobe, Lexmark, etc. 
Examples:

From Adobe.com when you download Flash/Acro-Reader  next to the download 
button there's a checkbox (default=checked) to also download and install the 
"Google Toolbar" or the "Ask Toolbar" or whatever. People just accept the 
defaults and end up with all this crap.

The nature of my friends work requires multiple printers, scanners, etc. So 
she gets a HP Color LaserJet and the printer *instructions* say to put in 
the CD to install the drivers. Well the drivers get installed but so does 
all sorts of crappy HP utilities, launchers, tray-icons, control panel 
extensions, configuration wizards and megs of crap when all she really needs 
is a plain old "printer driver."

Also connected is a very fast monochrome HP LaserJet. Same problem with the 
install CD but now it's worse because often these stupid HP utilites get 
confused because you now have 2 copies of them installed. Neighbor also has 
a Lexmark scannner - same problem as the HP printers and now there's all 
these Lexmark icons and launch panels all over her computer.


>> There's really no way that I could in good conscious recommend a Linux
>> desktop. If this person were a computer geek they probably wouldn't need 
>> to
>> ask but then Linux would be a good fit. But to an ordinary computer user 
>> I
>> don't see it as being the best solution.
>
> Me either.
> I wouldn't even make it home before my cell phone would be ringing and
> the person would be asking me why they can't load Quicken or some other
> application they use.
>

My neighbor has a Blackberry - I wouldn't want to be the one to have to try 
and teach her how to sync that with some desktop distro.


> These days, for people like that I suggest a Mac.
> My son has a MacBook Pro and it's built like a tank.
> Beautiful machine.
>

I know that the Apple Store at the local mall seems to be always packed with 
people. They're definitely doing something right.

"Chris" <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> wrote in message 
news:it2ohq$r3p$2@inf2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de...
> Am Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:35:18 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:
>
>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-
> experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>
> Saw this on tuxmachines too. I am really amazed by the amount of trolling
> in the comments. You rarely see this much in one place outside this group.
>
> And what is to say about the article...
> Mostly complaints about Software programmed and released by amd, nvidia,
> adobe, skype/now microsoft.
>

For ages even OSS software like Firefox also ran better on Windows. When the 
maker of their hardware (AMD, Intel) doesn't support their desktop OS then 
for a lot of people this means they need to look at a different desktop OS.


> I totally agree: It sucks that their software is not as good on Linux as
> on Windows. But in a perfect world only the reputation of the companies
> releasing half-broken software would suffer.

The reality is that nobody lives in a perfect world. Outside of computer 
geeks (meant in a nice way) the average Joe has no understanding of the 
complete "software stack" from the underlying hardware to the drivers, OS 
and end-user apps. All they know is that it something doesn't work as well 
on Linux. Even if you could convince them that it's all Nvidia's fault for 
not open-sourcing their drivers to the community it doesn't matter because 
it still doesn't work as well on Linux.

7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
>> 
>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>> 
>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx

The poster is an obvious shill.

> It works for me!!!

Indeed.

Problems?  Sure.

Massive problems?  Bullshit.

> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
> departments without facts
> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.

I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems in
Windows piss you off so much?

In any case, Flounder, like DFS, obviously cherry-picks links that denigrate
Linux.  Untrustworthy to the point of shilling and FUD.  Wottasurprize.

<Cue Flounder and friends to increase rate of garbage spewage.  They're
 an unmitigated gaggle of idiocy/thuggery.>

-- 
zeal, n.:
	Quality seen in new graduates -- if you're quick.

Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>> 
>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
>>> 
>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>> 
>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>> 
>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>
> The poster is an obvious shill.
>
>> It works for me!!!
>
> Indeed.
>
> Problems?  Sure.
>
> Massive problems?  Bullshit.
>
>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>> departments without facts
>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.
>
> I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems in
> Windows piss you off so much?
>

Simple - they dont' happen nearly as often as you and other here would 
like to portray.  I can only think of one time in the last 5 or 6 years 
that I've had to actually insert a driver cd into my windows machine - 
and that was for a proprietary usb video capture device (for converting 
vhs to dvd).  Everything else has been pretty much plug it in and it 
works.

-- 
Tom Shelton

Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
>> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>>>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>>> 
>>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>>> 
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>>
>> The poster is an obvious shill.
>>
>>> It works for me!!!
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> Problems?  Sure.
>>
>> Massive problems?  Bullshit.
>>
>>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>>> departments without facts
>>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.
>>
>> I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems in
>> Windows piss you off so much?
>
> Simple - they dont' happen nearly as often as you and other here would 
> like to portray.  I can only think of one time in the last 5 or 6 years 
> that I've had to actually insert a driver cd into my windows machine - 
> and that was for a proprietary usb video capture device (for converting 
> vhs to dvd).  Everything else has been pretty much plug it in and it 
> works.

Except, of course, when it doesn't.  Like, er, the Toshiba Dynadock.  Or
Citrix servers.

What does a CD have to do with it?  Even Microsoft now knows how to get
drivers from the Web.

My point is that this guy has been using Windows for a long time, and, yes,
it has problems.  Many problems.  Even now.  And, get this... people will
tell me, "Windows gives me no problem", and yet these I hear these same
people in the next cube complaining about their Windows systems.  It's like
a selective blindness to the issues.  It's pretty weird.

Look, I use Windows, and I do believe that Windows has gotten much better as
time goes on.  But it is still fairly slow, extremely demanding of system
resources, it still shits the bed now and then, and it is extremely limited
in desktop functionality compared to the range of features you find on
Linux.

Window's main advantages are that hardware is heavy these days, and can
handle the bloatware, and that Microsoft and the vendors work pretty hard to
make sure that Microsoft software and drivers work well enough on this
Microsoft platform.

Linux?  It has to do it all on its own, and yet does a damn good job of it.

You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
personally, I don't.  Linux is only marginally more problematic than
Windows, and that is solely because Microsoft currently drives the desktop
market.

-- 
If we won't stand together, we don't stand a chance.

On 2011-06-12, Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> claimed:

> It's not really believable to assume that Lenovo really was not able to 
> provide a good hardware/software bundle that works. As such a big company 
> with so much money you'd really have to be incompetent to fail that.
>
> I think of it as they just didn't put any real effort in it.

I think of it as Flatso making enough "facts" up to supoort s/h/it's
trolling needs.

-- 
There is no hell. There is only France.
 -- Frank Zappa

Verily I say unto thee, that Chris spake thusly:
> Am Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:35:18 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:
>>
>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>
> Saw this on tuxmachines too. I am really amazed by the amount of
> trolling in the comments. You rarely see this much in one place
> outside this group.
>
> And what is to say about the article...
> Mostly complaints about Software programmed and released by amd,
> nvidia, adobe, skype/now microsoft.
> I totally agree: It sucks that their software is not as good on Linux
> as on Windows. But in a perfect world only the reputation of the
> companies releasing half-broken software would suffer.

Subject corrected.

-- 
K.                           | "The poor have flat-screen TVs."
http://slated.org            | ~ Libertarian propagandist Keith
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky   | Curtis, explaining why he thinks
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 20 days  | we shouldn't tax the rich.

On 6/12/2011 3:12 PM, Homer wrote:

<snipped>
<not read>

Homer the Sloppy Simpleton is big and sloppy, be he can't do sloppy 
seconds.

"Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> schreef in bericht 
news:it2uce$1d8$1@dont-email.me...
> Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
>>> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop 
>>>>> ware.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>>>>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>>>
>>> The poster is an obvious shill.
>>>
>>>> It works for me!!!
>>>
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>> Problems?  Sure.
>>>
>>> Massive problems?  Bullshit.
>>>
>>>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>>>> departments without facts
>>>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>>>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.
>>>
>>> I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems 
>>> in
>>> Windows piss you off so much?
>>
>> Simple - they dont' happen nearly as often as you and other here would
>> like to portray.  I can only think of one time in the last 5 or 6 years
>> that I've had to actually insert a driver cd into my windows machine -
>> and that was for a proprietary usb video capture device (for converting
>> vhs to dvd).  Everything else has been pretty much plug it in and it
>> works.
>
> Except...........

Are you pulling a Rexx here?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 

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On 06/12/2011 06:47 PM, Hadron wrote:
> flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> writes:
> 
>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
It has it's problems. But it is totally free and open - quite good deal
for the money. Other option is little better on some areas and really
worse on others and cost your arm and leg.

>>
>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
I have read this group starting from year 2003 and I have not found very
many lies about Linux capabilities - actually I don't remember seeing
single one. Maybe some posts were little over optimistic but lies - NO.
I am going to read the whole damn thing to this day. Learn advocacy
techniques and so on. Lot of good info too. Thanks for the
http://www.giganews.com .


>>
>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>>
>> "I’ve been using GNU/Linux exclusively for 8 years now. I’ve spent a lot
>> of time with Fedora, Gentoo and Arch Linux. I use it at home, I use it
>> at work and along the way I’ve converted many Windows users to Linux.
>> I’ve lived through a lot of driver and software problems with Linux,
>> hoping that the day would come when it will become a first-class citizen
>> of the desktop operating systems town. Alas, this day never came and
>> probably never will.My patience ended this week and I’ll be gradually
>> moving all my desktop machines back to Windows."
>>
Maybe your problem is that you don't use the right tool for the job. Why
you abandoned Windows totally if you now think you have to go back to
Windows? Why did you not install Linux as dual boot and test the waters.
No single OS can please everyone. And there are lot of commercial
software for the Windows for which there is no replacement in Linux.
Emphasize on COMMERCIAL - they are typically not cheap. Person with
limited money can probably do most of the same things these commercial
programs do with some extra time spent. That's a good deal if you are
poor or not rolling in money.

I know this post is trolling because Linux has got so good in latest 2-3
years that this kind of total failure is not quite probable. But if you
don't like Linux don't use it.


>> ---Snip the gory details
>>
>> "The Shit I endured"
>>
>> "Non-existing ethernet/wireless drivers - not so common today, but try
>> remembering the time circa 2005
I have not done lot wireless - I like the GB ethernet. But those few
wireless cards I have tested - most of them worked.

>>
>> Non-existing/crappy audio drivers - got an X-Fi 5 years ago, ALSA driver
>> was released 3-4 years later and was total piece of garbage, OSS driver
>> was barely usable. I don’t even get me started on USB audio support -
>> what a joke…
I have not had really big problems in the last 2 years. Only thing I
find annoying is the mixer side of things. There are plethora of them
and they are not always working fine.

>>
>> Lamest video card drivers ever - most video card drivers for Linux are
>> so bad I cannot even watch tear-free video. Nvidia have the only decent
>> video driver, but it’s far from perfect either - no KMS, poor 2D
>> acceleration. AMD’s drivers are a punishment from the Lord and Intel’s
>> constantly “evolving” drivers are barely usable most of the time. The
>> video card drivers made me buy and HD media player and an PS3 (for which
>> I’m thankful), but I have to ask myself - why suffer all this shit
>> instead of getting a normal desktop OS like OS X or Windows? Did I love
>> Linux that much? Did I believe that much it’s desktop day would come?
>> What an idiot I was.
Youtube works fine to me. Even silverlight works - thanks to Novell.
Problem with Video Cards is that their programming info is proprietary.
I remember that ATI supposedly put the programming info public. Did this
happen or was I hallucinating?
It that is the case I should reconsider whether I buy ATI or NVidia.
Nvidia drivers have been good but open is always better.
I have not really tried INTEL video drivers. But I hope their GPUs gets
better so we would have some competition on the area.

I have been able to watch DVDs on my Linux machine. I have not done it
lately because home theater is much more comfortable. I don't yet own
Blue-Ray on my computer and have not Googled whether it would work under
Linux.

One fried of mine is a hobbyist political history writer and he collects
lot of stuff from the net in different video formats. Three years ago he
tried to watch many of them under Windows ME and failed. I set up a
Linux box with all possible codecs (legal and "illegal") and there was
not single one it could not show. I remember all the programs I used.

Bottom line is that the problems Linux has with some media formats and
GPUs are not technical but patent encumbered proprietary stuff.

>>
>> Lack of printer drivers - that’s a funny one. Often printers listed as
>> having Linux drivers are mostly unusable. The printer that own is listed
>> as having a “perfect” Linux compatability in openprinting.org. If this
>> is perfect I cannot begin to imagine what is “poor” compatibility.
Why don't you just buy HP and Samsung and be done with it. I had Epson
witch worked. Brother might work. Canon is hostile to Linux community
and so is Lexmark.

I am getting a multifunction HP laser, which is network connected and
usb connected. It even has a fax. It is brand new model and I will post
how difficult it is to get it to work with Linux. I will also install it
to Windows Vista and 7 and test to see which is harder....

>>
>> Crappiest suspend/resume support - laptop goes to sleep, but doesn’t
>> wake up. Wireless dies after wake up. Suspend/resume used to be
>> something mythical to most Linux users. Recently the situation has
>> improved a bit it’s still light years away from what you get with
>> Windows/OSX.
I haven't really tested this area much because I typically shut down the
machine. But I have few thinkpads and one Acer where OpenSUSE took care
of it automatically. But I will test when I have time.

>>
>> Poor power management - my older laptop’s battery lasted several weeks
>> while sleeping when I was using Windows on it. When I replaced it with
>> Linux the battery was being drained in 2 days while the laptop was
>> sleeping (and I had to wait about half a year for a set of wireless and
>> video drivers that actually made sleep a possibility)… I’ve noticed that
>> as far as dynamic power management is concerned Windows generally
>> managed to squeeze more time out of the battery, while at the same time
>> my rig generated less heat (dynamic fan control is another weakness of
>> Linux).
>>
>> I’ll stop writing about the driver problems now, because they affect so
>> many thing. Even my fairly advanced mouse is missing some functions in
>> Linux. I’m not even mentioning the things like support for “Turbo
>> Memory”, Optimus, etc.
Funny you take the driver problem to be biggest problem in Linux. Maybe
you have not tried a new distro. Nowadays I have way more driver
problems with Windwos than Linux. I like Linux installation very much
indeed - just start it and everything typically works even on old
hardware. Biggest problem with Windows is that devices are short lived -
typically two Windows versions, sometimes even a single version. And you
typically have to hunt them down in the net.

>>
>> Lack of decent office software - call it OpenOffice.org and don’t insult
>> it anymore…
I like OpenOffice/LibreOffice more than MS Office. Though just bought MS
Office 2010 to be able to test various things. And see what exactly is
this MS Office's 'OPEN' standard, which I hear is not quite open after
all and MS have already changed rules after ISO process..

>>
>> Problematic sound architecture - let me be completely blunt - everything
>> sound related in Linux sucks - OSS, ALSA, PulseAudio (the sucker king).
>> From a technical standpoint OSS never actually sucked, but since it
>> wasn’t picked up by the community the project fell into oblivion. How
>> many of you have enjoy Dolby Digital or DTS sound from their Linux
>> boxes?
See above

>>
>> Poor flash support - should I explain? Have you tried it on a 64 bit
>> distro? Do I hate it? Sure. Do I hope HTML5 will kill it? Sure. Do I
>> need it? Sure. You think your video drivers work OK under Linux? Have
>> you tried playing a HD video clip in youtube with flash player at
>> full-screen? Very few Linux video drivers handle this task properly…
Proprietary...

>>
>> Poor skype support - Same story as with flash. I keep dreaming of a
>> world with more intelligent users where GTalk has a conference mode and
>> everybody’s using it instead of skype.
Funny you happen to mention Skype. Skype runs on Linux servers actually.
It is going to be huge project for Microsoft to convert that on Windows
servers. Skype is proprietary program whose quality is not dependent on
Linux community. What I have little used it - it works on Linux - so
far. MS is going to axe Linux version.


>>
>> Poor quality of desktop apps - Known issues in core applications such as
>> Nautilus don’t get fixed for years. Such things naturally piss me off.
>> Trying to contribute to the solution of a problem is often met with
>> apathy by maintainers. Btw Linux users think that Mozilla Firefox is
>> very slow and memory hungry - but it turns out that the Windows version
>> is generally performing a lot better (not to mention - supporting
>> hardware video acceleration).
I use little nautilus, mostly I do my file handling on command line.
Nautilus has not crashed on me.

>>
>> I can keep listing things here forever. When I come to think about it
>> for the entire time I’ve been using Linux only one major problem got
>> resolved - USB devices support. I still remember the days when I had to
>> write auto mounting policies myself or to use mount manually all the
>> time. I won’t even mention the quality of most proprietary apps on
>> Linux, the huge amount of missing essential application and the
>> unavailability of mainstream video games.
Do you want effective working environment or game console? If first
Linux can do that in many cases. If latter get Sony PS3.

>>
>> So this is it! Hasta la vista, Linux! You still remain the best server
>> operating system, though. You’ll always have a special place in my heart
>> and a VMWare instance on my Windows boxes. "
And you will pay the license fees for all those Windows? How many
machines? How many MS Offices? How many other commercial apps? That
easily gets to thousands you know....

> 
> Yeah, I can empathise with him. It can be a struggle. Which is why I am
> amazed when the COLA "lieing for Lienux" types always seem to have it
> "just working" - even when someting isn't actually supported in the
> kernel! True legends at work in COLA. Amazing even!
Yeah not even supported in kernel - "Just working fine"
Can you refer any such posts?
> 
> It's also why I generally buy older thinkpads or "conservative" netbooks
> - my Asus runs debian stable with the liquorix kernels just
> fine. Everything "just works" on it. Except for the webcam of course
> which is slow, "tears" and is pretty much useless. Oh and suspend to
> disk stopped working recently but suspend to ram works fine. OK, the
> power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you can get
> about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode about 4.5-5
> hours and thats with pretty much only using Emacs/Gnus and google chrome
> browser - but thats not really an issue for me since if I was on the
> move and wanted long hours web browsing I could just use the built in
> boot from ROM "os".
I don't work much out my office therefore I disable power savings - gets
in the way. But I will surely test about these power saving stuffs.

Kari



- -- 
PICs, Displays,Relays - USB-SPI-I2C http://www.byvac.com
USB and FPGA boards  http://www.ztex.de

I am just a happy customer
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:43:08 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message 
> news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
>> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
>> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>>
> 
> Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO, etc. 
> But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.
> 
> 
>>> A couple of months back a self-employed friend/neighbor who makes a 
>>> living
>>> on the computer was going to replace 5-6 year old XP desktop machine. 
>>> This
>>> person is *always* having some sort of computer/network/printer problem 
>>> and
>>> asked me for advice. They're a non computer-geek and I ended up 
>>> suggesting a
>>> Mac. So I ran into her the other day and she loves the Mac and wishes she
>>> bought one years ago. She still owns a Win7 laptop but says her next 
>>> laptop
>>> is going to be a Mac as well.
>>
>> I have several friends like that.
>> They are always loading 8 million applications, weatherbug things and so
>> forth and they ultimately end up grinding the machine to a halt.
>>
>>
> 
> BINGO !!!  Her little "tray icon" has at least 18 apps running and there's 
> all sorts of toolbars, quick-launchers and whatever else running all over 
> their desktop. I know a *lot* of people like this.

Me too :)
 
> And a *lot* of that is the fault of companies like HP, Adobe, Lexmark, etc. 
> Examples:


Sure is.

The hardware companies are partly to blame.
HP offers a "driver only" download from their site but most people will
just put the CD that came with the unit in and get all the bloatware
installed as well.

> My neighbor has a Blackberry - I wouldn't want to be the one to have to try 
> and teach her how to sync that with some desktop distro.

Neither would I.


> 
>> These days, for people like that I suggest a Mac.
>> My son has a MacBook Pro and it's built like a tank.
>> Beautiful machine.
>>
> 
> I know that the Apple Store at the local mall seems to be always packed with 
> people. They're definitely doing something right.

They are listening to the consumer.....


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

Chris Ahlstrom formulated on Sunday :
> Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
>>> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>> 
>>>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>>>>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>>> 
>>> The poster is an obvious shill.
>>> 
>>>> It works for me!!!
>>> 
>>> Indeed.
>>> 
>>> Problems?  Sure.
>>> 
>>> Massive problems?  Bullshit.
>>> 
>>>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>>>> departments without facts
>>>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>>>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.
>>> 
>>> I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems in
>>> Windows piss you off so much?
>> 
>> Simple - they dont' happen nearly as often as you and other here would 
>> like to portray.  I can only think of one time in the last 5 or 6 years 
>> that I've had to actually insert a driver cd into my windows machine - 
>> and that was for a proprietary usb video capture device (for converting 
>> vhs to dvd).  Everything else has been pretty much plug it in and it 
>> works.
>
> Except, of course, when it doesn't.  Like, er, the Toshiba Dynadock.  Or
> Citrix servers.
>
> What does a CD have to do with it?  Even Microsoft now knows how to get
> drivers from the Web.
>
> My point is that this guy has been using Windows for a long time, and, yes,
> it has problems.  Many problems.  Even now.  And, get this... people will
> tell me, "Windows gives me no problem", and yet these I hear these same
> people in the next cube complaining about their Windows systems.  It's like
> a selective blindness to the issues.  It's pretty weird.
>
> Look, I use Windows, and I do believe that Windows has gotten much better as
> time goes on.  But it is still fairly slow, extremely demanding of system
> resources, it still shits the bed now and then, and it is extremely limited
> in desktop functionality compared to the range of features you find on
> Linux.
>
> Window's main advantages are that hardware is heavy these days, and can
> handle the bloatware, and that Microsoft and the vendors work pretty hard to
> make sure that Microsoft software and drivers work well enough on this
> Microsoft platform.
>
> Linux?  It has to do it all on its own, and yet does a damn good job of it.
>
> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
> personally, I don't.  Linux is only marginally more problematic than
> Windows, and that is solely because Microsoft currently drives the desktop
> market.

*Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of 
this discussion.

-- 
Tom Shelton

Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>>
>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop
>>> ware.
>>> 
>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux
>>> that the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>> 
>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>> 
>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>
> The poster is an obvious shill.

No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10 year-old,
who went off on a hysterical rant against GNU/Linux, because of minor
issues that pale into insignificance compared to much worse issues on
Windows. I hope he produces a similar rant against Windows, once he's
finally discovered that fact for himself, and matured enough to admit
it.

-- 
K.                           | "The poor have flat-screen TVs."
http://slated.org            | ~ Libertarian propagandist Keith
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky   | Curtis, explaining why he thinks
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 20 days  | we shouldn't tax the rich.

"Tom Shelton" <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> wrote in message 
news:it37t8$rtt$1@dont-email.me...
> Chris Ahlstrom formulated on Sunday :
>> Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
>>>> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The poster is an obvious shill.
>>>>
>>>>> It works for me!!!
>>>> Indeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>>>>> departments without facts
>>>>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>>>>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL 
>>>>> list.
>>>>
>>
>> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
>> personally, I don't.  Linux is only marginally more problematic than
>> Windows, and that is solely because Microsoft currently drives the 
>> desktop
>> market.
>
> *Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
> time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of this 
> discussion.
>

Chris seems much more comfortable posting back and forth with his peers like 
7, chrisv and Willy Poaster anyway.  There's so many trolls to talk about 
and only so little time.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:12:01 +0100, Homer wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris spake thusly:
>> Am Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:35:18 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:
>>>
>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>
>> Saw this on tuxmachines too. I am really amazed by the amount of
>> trolling in the comments. You rarely see this much in one place
>> outside this group.
>>
>> And what is to say about the article...
>> Mostly complaints about Software programmed and released by amd,
>> nvidia, adobe, skype/now microsoft.
>> I totally agree: It sucks that their software is not as good on Linux
>> as on Windows. But in a perfect world only the reputation of the
>> companies releasing half-broken software would suffer.


The problem is Linux.
Those same programs and hardware work fine under other operating
systems.


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:57:28 +0200, Clog_-_wog (�) wrote:

> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> schreef in bericht 
> news:it2uce$1d8$1@dont-email.me...
>> Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
>>>> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop 
>>>>>> ware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>>>>>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>>>>
>>>> The poster is an obvious shill.
>>>>
>>>>> It works for me!!!
>>>>
>>>> Indeed.
>>>>
>>>> Problems?  Sure.
>>>>
>>>> Massive problems?  Bullshit.
>>>>
>>>>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>>>>> departments without facts
>>>>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>>>>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.
>>>>
>>>> I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems 
>>>> in
>>>> Windows piss you off so much?
>>>
>>> Simple - they dont' happen nearly as often as you and other here would
>>> like to portray.  I can only think of one time in the last 5 or 6 years
>>> that I've had to actually insert a driver cd into my windows machine -
>>> and that was for a proprietary usb video capture device (for converting
>>> vhs to dvd).  Everything else has been pretty much plug it in and it
>>> works.
>>
>> Except...........
> 
> Are you pulling a Rexx here?
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Sure looks that way.
Maybe Chris Ahlstrom is sucking up to Rex Ballard again?

The others seem to be ignoring his affections :)

Subject corrected BTW

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:50:22 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "Tom Shelton" <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:it37t8$rtt$1@dont-email.me...
>> Chris Ahlstrom formulated on Sunday :
>>> Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> Chris Ahlstrom formulated the question :
>>>>> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The poster is an obvious shill.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It works for me!!!
>>>>> Indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>>>>>> departments without facts
>>>>>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>>>>>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL 
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
>>> personally, I don't.  Linux is only marginally more problematic than
>>> Windows, and that is solely because Microsoft currently drives the 
>>> desktop
>>> market.
>>
>> *Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
>> time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of this 
>> discussion.
>>
> 
> Chris seems much more comfortable posting back and forth with his peers like 
> 7, chrisv and Willy Poaster anyway.  There's so many trolls to talk about 
> and only so little time.

Looks like it's time to lower the boom on Chris Ahlstrom......

Guess where I got that so called "cherry picked rant" from????

Hahahahahhahahha!!!


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On 6/12/2011 1:49 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:


> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
> personally, I don't.


Yeah, you don't appreciate it - you only suckle on it for dear life for 
the last 15 years.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:38:20 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 6/12/2011 1:49 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
> 
>> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
>> personally, I don't.
> 
> 
> Yeah, you don't appreciate it - you only suckle on it for dear life for 
> the last 15 years.

How true.

I'm not a programmer so I am totally off base here, but he doesn't seem
to know what he is talking about much of the time.

I wonder if he really programs at all or is just some QA junkie or
glorified toner monkey.

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On 6/12/2011 1:19 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 7 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>>> Another "satisfied" Linux user finally realizes that Linux is slop ware.
>>>
>>> Interesting how he discusses the same problematic areas of Linux that
>>> the Linturds in COLA deny exist.
>>>
>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/5wgyhnx
>
> The poster is an obvious shill.
>
>> It works for me!!!
>
> Indeed.
>
> Problems?  Sure.
>
> Massive problems?  Bullshit.
>
>> This out dated style of ranting dreamt up in micoshaft/appil marketing
>> departments without facts
>> is typical of what galloping windows lusers rant about
>> and can't back up with a bright gesture such as using a Linux HCL list.
>
> I find myself asking the author, why didn't the same kinds of problems in
> Windows piss you off so much?
>
> In any case, Flounder, like DFS, obviously cherry-picks links that denigrate
> Linux.  Untrustworthy to the point of shilling and FUD.  Wottasurprize.
>
> <Cue Flounder and friends to increase rate of garbage spewage.  They're
>   an unmitigated gaggle of idiocy/thuggery.>
>

What a joke him and 7 are about. Neither one of the clowns could shine 
Flounder's shoes.

Tom Shelton wrote:

> *Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
> time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of 
> this discussion.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
-- 
Forget 0 to 60. It's 95 to 55 that counts!

[tv]

Homer wrote:

> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10 year-old

I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)
-- 
It ain't over, but the fat lady is clearing her throat.

[tv]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:48:37 -0400, Tattoo Vampire wrote:

> Tom Shelton wrote:
> 
>> *Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
>> time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of 
>> this discussion.
> 
> Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Moron......


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:49:32 -0400, Tattoo Vampire wrote:

> Homer wrote:
> 
>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10 year-old
> 
> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)

Thinking is beyond your capacity.......

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> writes:

> On 6/12/2011 1:49 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
>> personally, I don't.
>
> Yeah, you don't appreciate it - you only suckle on it for dear life for the last
> 15 years.

Exactly. He seems to appreciate the fact that he can edit and make MS SW
using us "OLPC" and "ssh".... LOL! What a weenie...

I laugh at this troll!

I had to travel to a windows office complete with doze server, office
PCs etc. In a single day, we saw enough hair-pulling wierdities and
failures to last a year on a linix setup. Everything from printers that
wouldn't connect ("That is a homegroup, not a workgroup" -- as if there
is any difference except an artificial one M$ made up to extract more
cash from hapless purchasers) ("We logged you out because you logged in
somewhere else" -- linux admins rolling on the floor dying of laughter
from that one) to ethernet connections running at 1980 speed, to mail
accounts that couldn't print, computers that couldn't export a directory
to the network, and on it went, all in a single afternoon.

Windows?  A real OS?  HA !

-- 
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net

On 2011-06-12, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
> OK, the power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you
> can get about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode
> about 4.5-5 hours (...)

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. On my Acer there's virtually no
difference between Debian Wheezy/Sid and Windows 7 wrt autonomy.  My
Debian is set up to use the 'on-demand' CPU governor by the way, so
the CPU frequency will scale according to the current load (and this
is the default).

So again: bullshit.

-- 
http://twitter.com/drumscum | http://drumscum.be
I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns
on the set, I go into the other room and read a book.
	~ Groucho Marx

Tattoo Vampire wrote:
> Homer wrote:
>
>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10
>> year-old
>
> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)

I thought the clogster was from New York or Massachusetts using
anonymising remailers to make appear as from +0200 time zone (an easy do 
in Mixmaster).

-- 
HPT

Am Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:38:13 +0200 schrieb TomB:

> On 2011-06-12, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>> OK, the power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you
>> can get about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode about
>> 4.5-5 hours (...)
> 
> Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. On my Acer there's virtually no difference
> between Debian Wheezy/Sid and Windows 7 wrt autonomy.  My Debian is set
> up to use the 'on-demand' CPU governor by the way, so the CPU frequency
> will scale according to the current load (and this is the default).
> 
> So again: bullshit.

Not completely. With my Acer 7741G I get ~ 3.5 hours battery life on 
linux and ~ 4 hours on Windows 7 (at least that's what windows 7 says, I 
haven't actually used it that long on battery as I'm only gaming there).

But when the power saving regression in the kernel is fixed I expect them 
to be on par - again.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTU2MA

But my difference from 3.5 to 4 hours is not as much as 4.5 to 13.

I don't know the specs of Hadrons "Asus" but I suspect there might be two 
graphic cards draining the power. Have seen this on a thinkpad before and 
either disabling it or using a little hack to disable it would do the 
trick.

http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T400#Getting_both_to_work
"The biggest obstacle to this, however, is keeping the second card 
powered down. Xorg drivers for a specific card ignore the existence of a 
second card and therefore the second card is left at its highest clock 
frequency, consuming a lot of power and generating heat."

TomB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2011-06-12, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>> OK, the power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you
>> can get about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode
>> about 4.5-5 hours (...)
>
> Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. On my Acer there's virtually no
> difference between Debian Wheezy/Sid and Windows 7 wrt autonomy.  My
> Debian is set up to use the 'on-demand' CPU governor by the way, so
> the CPU frequency will scale according to the current load (and this
> is the default).
>
> So again: bullshit.

Amazing the lies that spew forth against Linux, isn't it?  Brought here by
one troll and "backed up" by another troll.

-- 
Those lovable Brits department:
	They also have trouble pronouncing `vitamin'.

Tom Shelton wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom formulated on Sunday :
>
>>> Simple - they dont' happen nearly as often as you and other here would 
>>> like to portray.  I can only think of one time in the last 5 or 6 years 
>>> that I've had to actually insert a driver cd into my windows machine - 
>>> and that was for a proprietary usb video capture device (for converting 
>>> vhs to dvd).  Everything else has been pretty much plug it in and it 
>>> works.
>>
>> Except, of course, when it doesn't.  Like, er, the Toshiba Dynadock.  Or
>> Citrix servers.
>>
>> What does a CD have to do with it?  Even Microsoft now knows how to get
>> drivers from the Web.
>>
>> My point is that this guy has been using Windows for a long time, and, yes,
>> it has problems.  Many problems.  Even now.  And, get this... people will
>> tell me, "Windows gives me no problem", and yet these I hear these same
>> people in the next cube complaining about their Windows systems.  It's like
>> a selective blindness to the issues.  It's pretty weird.
>>
>> Look, I use Windows, and I do believe that Windows has gotten much better as
>> time goes on.  But it is still fairly slow, extremely demanding of system
>> resources, it still shits the bed now and then, and it is extremely limited
>> in desktop functionality compared to the range of features you find on
>> Linux.
>>
>> Window's main advantages are that hardware is heavy these days, and can
>> handle the bloatware, and that Microsoft and the vendors work pretty hard to
>> make sure that Microsoft software and drivers work well enough on this
>> Microsoft platform.
>>
>> Linux?  It has to do it all on its own, and yet does a damn good job of it.
>>
>> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
>> personally, I don't.  Linux is only marginally more problematic than
>> Windows, and that is solely because Microsoft currently drives the desktop
>> market.
>
> *Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
> time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of 
> this discussion.

Whatever for, Tom?  I work all day in a heavy Windows infrastructure
managed under the auspices of NMCI.  I see the problems the Windows side of
it has, and I experience the bloat of Windows 7 on my own VM and on my
work partner's Windows 7 Ultimate box.

You need to face facts, Tom... If it weren't for vendors clambering all over
Windows systems keeping them protected and keeping them going, they wouldn't
last a month, *especially* in the hands of the *average* user.

I say it is *Windows* that isn't ready for the desktop.  How can I say this?
Here's how:

A rule has come down the pike at work saying that anyone on a "technical"
seat is going to have to get *security certification* to maintain that seat.
Otherwise they will be forced onto a highly-controlled (e.g. *no* installing
of any of your own software) seat.

That is how difficult it is to maintain a safe Windows networked
environment.  You need to be an expert user to maintain Windows.

-- 
Q:	Why haven't you graduated yet?
A:	Well, Dad, I could have finished years ago, but I wanted
	my dissertation to rhyme.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> That is how difficult it is to maintain a safe Windows networked
> environment.  You need to be an expert user to maintain Windows.

That's why I got rid of it for the most part in our offices. There is one
machine in each office that's set up with Windows for two apps we need. They
are not connected to the Internet. All the other machines run Linux.
-- 
When the snow melts, where does all the white go?

[tv]

Verily I say unto thee, that High Plains Thumper spake thusly:
> Tattoo Vampire wrote:
>> Homer wrote:
>>
>>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10 year-old
>>
>> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)
>
> I thought the clogster was from New York or Massachusetts using
> anonymising remailers to make appear as from +0200 time zone (an easy
> do in Mixmaster).

I'm talking about the original article's author, Bozhidar Batsov:

http://stackoverflow.com/users/291550/bozhidar-batsov

-- 
K.                           | "The poor have flat-screen TVs."
http://slated.org            | ~ Libertarian propagandist Keith
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky   | Curtis, explaining why he thinks
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 21 days  | we shouldn't tax the rich.

On 6/13/2011 4:05 AM, Ron House wrote:

<snipped>
<yawn>

Stage-hook the exit is to your right.

Homer wrote:
> High Plains Thumper spake thusly:
>> Tattoo Vampire wrote:
>>> Homer wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10
>>>> year-old
>>>
>>> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)
>>
>> I thought the clogster was from New York or Massachusetts using
>> anonymising remailers to make appear as from +0200 time zone (an
>> easy do in Mixmaster).
>
> I'm talking about the original article's author, Bozhidar Batsov:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/users/291550/bozhidar-batsov

I looked just now at the earlier link you provided. Geeze, what a moron.
There's nothing wrong with the Linux desktop, nor has there ever been.
I've been using Linux since SuSE 5.3, over a decade.

It does an excellent job of organising and launching applications, is
easy to use, customise, configure, etc. It's been on Microsoft's radar
screen for a long time, because it is a desktop threat.

They would like to declare the the Linux desktop is dead, but that still
doesn't account for all the downloads of Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint, etc.
desktop versions and variants.

I showed my niece in law Ubuntu, spoke of its security over Windows, she
was impressed, now wants it.

Soon we'll have another added to the fold, to the Wintrolls' chagrins.

-- 
HPT

Ezekiel wrote:

>The reality is that nobody lives in a perfect world. Outside of computer 
>geeks (meant in a nice way) the average Joe has no understanding of the 
>complete "software stack" from the underlying hardware to the drivers, OS 
>and end-user apps. All they know is that it something doesn't work as well 
>on Linux. Even if you could convince them that it's all Nvidia's fault for 
>not open-sourcing their drivers to the community it doesn't matter because 
>it still doesn't work as well on Linux.

The reality is also that far more people use Windows than what really
"should" be, and that Linux is a great alterative tool that does what
many people need just fine, right "out of the box", while being more
secure for our routine online activities.

Ezekiel wrote:

>Chris seems much more comfortable

Shouldn't you remove Quack's thumb from your rear-end, before posting
that nonsense, fsckwit?

Tom Shelton wrote:

>Chris Ahlstrom formulated on Sunday :
>>
>> You can appreciate the Microsoft infrastructure it you want, but,
>> personally, I don't.  Linux is only marginally more problematic than
>> Windows, and that is solely because Microsoft currently drives the desktop
>> market.
>
>*Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's 
>time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of 
>this discussion.

Yeah, because what he wrote is *so* unreasonable.  Not.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>Window's main advantages are that hardware is heavy these days, and can
>handle the bloatware, and that Microsoft and the vendors work pretty hard to
>make sure that Microsoft software and drivers work well enough on this
>Microsoft platform.

And we must not forget that Windows somes pre-installed, so an OEM
vetted everything and made sure it worked, before you even get the
machine.

If Linux PC's were sold the same way, the majority of the "forum
problems" that trolls like to paste in here would evaporate.

>Linux?  It has to do it all on its own, and yet does a damn good job of it.

-- 
"Dont even begin to suggest the same % of Windows users have issues as
they don't."  -  "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

On 2011-06-13, the following emerged from the brain of Chris:
> Am Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:38:13 +0200 schrieb TomB:
>> On 2011-06-12, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>>> OK, the power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7
>>> you can get about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power
>>> mode about 4.5-5 hours (...)
>> 
>> Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. On my Acer there's virtually no
>> difference between Debian Wheezy/Sid and Windows 7 wrt autonomy.
>> My Debian is set up to use the 'on-demand' CPU governor by the way,
>> so the CPU frequency will scale according to the current load (and
>> this is the default).
>> 
>> So again: bullshit.
>
> Not completely. With my Acer 7741G I get ~ 3.5 hours battery life on
> linux and ~ 4 hours on Windows 7 (at least that's what windows 7
> says, I haven't actually used it that long on battery as I'm only
> gaming there).

I have the exact same laptop. Yes, W7 initially claims ~4 hrs on
battery power, but I never saw it last that long. Perhaps when you
leave it sitting idle for four hours? On my Acer, both GNU/Linux and
Win7 can get 3 to 3.5 hrs. our of the battery.
>
> But when the power saving regression in the kernel is fixed I expect
> them to be on par - again.
>
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTU2MA
>
> But my difference from 3.5 to 4 hours is not as much as 4.5 to 13.
>
> I don't know the specs of Hadrons "Asus" but I suspect there might
> be two graphic cards draining the power. Have seen this on a
> thinkpad before and either disabling it or using a little hack to
> disable it would do the trick.

Okay, so or he's too dense to look for a solution for a real problem,
or he's simply bullshitting.

> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T400#Getting_both_to_work
> "The biggest obstacle to this, however, is keeping the second card
> powered down. Xorg drivers for a specific card ignore the existence
> of a second card and therefore the second card is left at its
> highest clock frequency, consuming a lot of power and generating
> heat."


-- 
http://twitter.com/drumscum | http://drumscum.be
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
	~ Albert Einstein

On 2011-06-12, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>
> "flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message 
> news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
>> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
>> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>>
>
> Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO, etc. 
> But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.

   ...then why put up with either Windows or Macs?

[deletia]

   I have a multitude of suitable devices. Some are better supported in
Linux than in MacOS and some are even better supported in Linux than
Windows. The whole "monopoly" thing in Windows is not what it is cracked
up to be. It has "holes" where either Microsoft or the herd of Lemming
users has decided to intentionally ignore/suppress things.

   If you are going to just run free software on a non-free OS then 
you don't have to worry about dealing with a malware prone OS or 
overpaying for your hardware.

-- 

    MSOffice is completely unremarkable except for the fact          ||| 
    that it is most compatable with itself.                         / | \

On 2011-06-12, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:12:01 +0100, Homer wrote:
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris spake thusly:
>>> Am Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:35:18 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:
>>>>
>>>> http://batsov.com/Linux/Windows/Rant/2011/06/11/linux-desktop-experience-killing-linux-on-the-desktop.html
>>>
>>> Saw this on tuxmachines too. I am really amazed by the amount of
>>> trolling in the comments. You rarely see this much in one place
>>> outside this group.
>>>
>>> And what is to say about the article...
>>> Mostly complaints about Software programmed and released by amd,
>>> nvidia, adobe, skype/now microsoft.
>>> I totally agree: It sucks that their software is not as good on Linux
>>> as on Windows. But in a perfect world only the reputation of the
>>> companies releasing half-broken software would suffer.
>
>
> The problem is Linux.
> Those same programs and hardware work fine under other operating
> systems.

   Yes. It's the fault of Linux that Adobe can't get it's act together
despite the fact that the "slopware" from the community has been adequately
supporting the features available in Linux for years.

   No. It's not Adobe's fault for not being able to be the equal of a dozen
or more "amateur" projects. It's the fault of Linux.

-- 

    MSOffice is completely unremarkable except for the fact          ||| 
    that it is most compatable with itself.                         / | \

"High Plains Thumper" <hpt@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht 
news:4df5d7f3$0$3528$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...
> Tattoo Vampire wrote:
>> Homer wrote:
>>
>>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10
>>> year-old
>>
>> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)
>
> I thought the clogster was from New York or Massachusetts using
> anonymising remailers to make appear as from +0200 time zone (an easy do 
> in Mixmaster).
>
It's "Massachusetts", definitely, how did you nail me, genius?
<aside>
Dumbfucked dickhead!
--
Hoge (High) Vlaktes (Plains) Neuker (Thumper) is een pafferige achterbakse 
vage slet zonder hersens! 

"Clog_-_wog (®)" <clog_-_wog@anonimous.eu> writes:

> "High Plains Thumper" <hpt@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
> news:4df5d7f3$0$3528$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...
>> Tattoo Vampire wrote:
>>> Homer wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10
>>>> year-old
>>>
>>> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)
>>
>> I thought the clogster was from New York or Massachusetts using
>> anonymising remailers to make appear as from +0200 time zone (an easy do in
>> Mixmaster).
>>
> It's "Massachusetts", definitely, how did you nail me, genius?
> <aside>
> Dumbfucked dickhead!
> --
> Hoge (High) Vlaktes (Plains) Neuker (Thumper) is een pafferige achterbakse vage
> slet zonder hersens! 

Is Wendy Toiletwater showing off about his Poasteresque 1337 header
skillz again? LOL! What a loonytune. I bet Creepy thinks HPT is a genius
too!

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:8i1cv6la0b3fd15a8783d8635nfhaqllcn@4ax.com...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>

snip - more DOCUMENTED lies from the useless piece of shit turd.

"chrisv" is a liar. "chrisv" is a piece of shit.

stupid shit "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:tu1cv6hme04sat465oiqu56gq4vo3c0qio@4ax.com...


shut the fsck up and quit lieing you mentally ill piece of shit.

"chrisv" is a liar. "chrisv" is a mentally ill piece of shit.

"flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> schreef in bericht 
news:1ohf6n2sg1ei9$.1s6luzj50au5e.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:48:37 -0400, Tattoo Vampire wrote:
>
>> Tom Shelton wrote:
>>
>>> *Sigh*...  Chris - reading through this has made me realize, that it's
>>> time to just go back to lurking.  There simply is no point in any of
>>> this discussion.
>>
>> Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
>
> Moron......
>
The turtle waxer had his ass kicked so many times over the years that it 
must look like ground beef, by now. 

chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Ezekiel wrote:
>
>>Chris seems much more comfortable
>
> Shouldn't you remove Quack's thumb from your rear-end, before posting
> that nonsense, fsckwit?

They're all idiots.  *yawn*  So what else is new?

"7" is head and shoulders above the COLA trolling crew, amazingly enough.

-- 
Serving coffee on aircraft causes turbulence.

On 6/13/2011 4:05 AM, Ron House wrote:
> I laugh at this troll!
> 
> I had to travel to a windows office complete with doze server, office
> PCs etc. In a single day, we saw enough hair-pulling wierdities and
> failures to last a year on a linix setup. 


Where a "Linux year" is defined as 30 minutes.

Meanwhile:
http://ubuntuforums.org
http://forums.opensuse.org/
http://fedoraforum.org/
http://forums.linuxmint.com/
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/
http://forums.debian.net/
http://forum.mandriva.com/
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/forumdisplay.php?forumid=14
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/


Here are a few classics from the "stable", "perfect for desktops and
laptops" Ubuntu:

=======================================================================
"I pray for a fix for the random freezes...Windows works just fine"
#208 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=21


"hard locks...very much flawed...XP/Vista/7 don't crash"
#929 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=93


"many problems...Evolution double copies my email...calendar loses
entries...fortunately Windows and Office Outlook is more reliable"
#1179 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465548&page=118


"random freezes...Win7 runs perfectly"
#682 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=69


"clean install...random freezes...Win7 runs fine"
#670 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=67


"forced reboots every 40 minutes"
#583 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=59


"runs Windows without a hitch...Ubuntu lockup/freezes at least 3 to 5
times per day"
#821 and #829 at
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=83


"reseated memory and Windows stopped crashing...Ubuntu didn't"
#892 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=90


"hibernate hangs...ethernet disabled...no network...shutdown hangs...CD
won't write...printer won't print"
#1090 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465548&page=109


"freezes constantly...embarrassed to show my friends...they get NO
freezes on Windows"
#354 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=36


"3-5 lockups per day...unusable...given up on it"
#821 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=83


"2 days of struggles...it's easier to use the Redmond products"
#1074 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465548&page=108


"too many bugs to recommend to non-hackers...I question the feasibility
of Linux for casual desktop users"
#1004 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=101

=======================================================================

One of my personal favorites is:

"a change to video brightness freezes the keyboard"
#1223 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=123



The kualitee is astounding...






> Everything from printers that
> wouldn't connect ("That is a homegroup, not a workgroup" -- as if there
> is any difference except an artificial one M$ made up to extract more
> cash from hapless purchasers) ("We logged you out because you logged in
> somewhere else" -- linux admins rolling on the floor dying of laughter
> from that one) to ethernet connections running at 1980 speed, to mail
> accounts that couldn't print, computers that couldn't export a directory
> to the network, and on it went, all in a single afternoon.
> 
> Windows?  A real OS?  HA !



When does the "Principle Of Goodness" kick in?  Right after the
"Principle Of Hypocrisy" I guess...

On 6/13/2011 7:31 AM, Tattoo Vampire wrote:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> That is how difficult it is to maintain a safe Windows networked
>> environment.  You need to be an expert user to maintain Windows.
>
> That's why I got rid of it for the most part in our offices. There is one
> machine in each office that's set up with Windows for two apps we need. They
> are not connected to the Internet. All the other machines run Linux.


User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1


Good one, slob!

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:42:44 -0600, High Plains Thumper wrote:

 http://stackoverflow.com/users/291550/bozhidar-batsov
> 
> I looked just now at the earlier link you provided. Geeze, what a moron.
> There's nothing wrong with the Linux desktop, nor has there ever been.
> I've been using Linux since SuSE 5.3, over a decade.
> 
> It does an excellent job of organising and launching applications, is
> easy to use, customise, configure, etc. It's been on Microsoft's radar
> screen for a long time, because it is a desktop threat.

So why do you have to pirate Maya and use Adobe Photoshop George
Hostler?


Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:33:04 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:



> 
> "7" is head and shoulders above the COLA trolling crew, amazingly enough.

Slurp.......

Why not ask 7 for some proof of his European Inventor Of The Year Award,
Chris Ahlstrom.....

Let's put him to the test...


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:25:37 +0200, Clog_-_wog (�) wrote:

> "High Plains Thumper" <hpt@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht 
> news:4df5d7f3$0$3528$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...
>> Tattoo Vampire wrote:
>>> Homer wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, he's a 26 year old Bulgarian with the mentality of a 10
>>>> year-old
>>>
>>> I thought Clogwog was from Poland or somewhere... ;-)
>>
>> I thought the clogster was from New York or Massachusetts using
>> anonymising remailers to make appear as from +0200 time zone (an easy do 
>> in Mixmaster).
>>
> It's "Massachusetts", definitely, how did you nail me, genius?
> <aside>
> Dumbfucked dickhead!

Notice how HPT seems to be an expert at using anonymous remailers?

That's because he pollutes the groups using them under different nyms.

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:14:55 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> TomB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On 2011-06-12, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>>> OK, the power management is rubbish compared to win 7 - in Win 7 you
>>> can get about 13 hours out of it, with Debian in low power mode
>>> about 4.5-5 hours (...)
>>
>> Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. On my Acer there's virtually no
>> difference between Debian Wheezy/Sid and Windows 7 wrt autonomy.  My
>> Debian is set up to use the 'on-demand' CPU governor by the way, so
>> the CPU frequency will scale according to the current load (and this
>> is the default).
>>
>> So again: bullshit.
> 
> Amazing the lies that spew forth against Linux, isn't it?  Brought here by
> one troll and "backed up" by another troll.

Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508





-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> writes:

> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:33:04 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> 
>> "7" is head and shoulders above the COLA trolling crew, amazingly enough.
>
> Slurp.......
>
> Why not ask 7 for some proof of his European Inventor Of The Year Award,
> Chris Ahlstrom.....
>
> Let's put him to the test...

Or the GPL code for his "Gambas" Transaction Manager. Is Ahsltrom
serious? What a weenie.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:10:15 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 6/13/2011 4:05 AM, Ron House wrote:
>> I laugh at this troll!
>> 
>> I had to travel to a windows office complete with doze server, office
>> PCs etc. In a single day, we saw enough hair-pulling wierdities and
>> failures to last a year on a linix setup. 
> 
> 
> Where a "Linux year" is defined as 30 minutes.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> http://ubuntuforums.org
> http://forums.opensuse.org/
> http://fedoraforum.org/
> http://forums.linuxmint.com/
> http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/
> http://forums.debian.net/
> http://forum.mandriva.com/
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/forumdisplay.php?forumid=14
> http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/
> 
> 
> Here are a few classics from the "stable", "perfect for desktops and
> laptops" Ubuntu:
> 
> =======================================================================
> "I pray for a fix for the random freezes...Windows works just fine"
> #208 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=21
> 
> 
> "hard locks...very much flawed...XP/Vista/7 don't crash"
> #929 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=93
> 
> 
> "many problems...Evolution double copies my email...calendar loses
> entries...fortunately Windows and Office Outlook is more reliable"
> #1179 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465548&page=118
> 
> 
> "random freezes...Win7 runs perfectly"
> #682 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=69
> 
> 
> "clean install...random freezes...Win7 runs fine"
> #670 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=67
> 
> 
> "forced reboots every 40 minutes"
> #583 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=59
> 
> 
> "runs Windows without a hitch...Ubuntu lockup/freezes at least 3 to 5
> times per day"
> #821 and #829 at
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=83
> 
> 
> "reseated memory and Windows stopped crashing...Ubuntu didn't"
> #892 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=90
> 
> 
> "hibernate hangs...ethernet disabled...no network...shutdown hangs...CD
> won't write...printer won't print"
> #1090 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465548&page=109
> 
> 
> "freezes constantly...embarrassed to show my friends...they get NO
> freezes on Windows"
> #354 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=36
> 
> 
> "3-5 lockups per day...unusable...given up on it"
> #821 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=83
> 
> 
> "2 days of struggles...it's easier to use the Redmond products"
> #1074 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465548&page=108
> 
> 
> "too many bugs to recommend to non-hackers...I question the feasibility
> of Linux for casual desktop users"
> #1004 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=101
> 
> =======================================================================
> 
> One of my personal favorites is:
> 
> "a change to video brightness freezes the keyboard"
> #1223 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478787&page=123
> 
> 
> 
> The kualitee is astounding...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Everything from printers that
>> wouldn't connect ("That is a homegroup, not a workgroup" -- as if there
>> is any difference except an artificial one M$ made up to extract more
>> cash from hapless purchasers) ("We logged you out because you logged in
>> somewhere else" -- linux admins rolling on the floor dying of laughter
>> from that one) to ethernet connections running at 1980 speed, to mail
>> accounts that couldn't print, computers that couldn't export a directory
>> to the network, and on it went, all in a single afternoon.
>> 
>> Windows?  A real OS?  HA !
> 
> 
> 
> When does the "Principle Of Goodness" kick in?  Right after the
> "Principle Of Hypocrisy" I guess...

Linux is untested slop ware.
There is little to no accountability so they just churn the shit out
pile after pile.

How the COLA Linux vermin can continue to pull the "works for me" line
is a mystery.

They LIE for LIEnux.



-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:29:19 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> writes:
> 
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:33:04 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> "7" is head and shoulders above the COLA trolling crew, amazingly enough.
>>
>> Slurp.......
>>
>> Why not ask 7 for some proof of his European Inventor Of The Year Award,
>> Chris Ahlstrom.....
>>
>> Let's put him to the test...
> 
> Or the GPL code for his "Gambas" Transaction Manager. Is Ahsltrom
> serious? What a weenie.

Sadly I think he is serious.

Like most Linturds, Chris Ahlstrom attaches himself to a band of losers.

-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

On 6/13/2011 12:45 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:

> Linux is untested slop ware. There is little to no accountability so
> they just churn the shit out pile after pile.
>
> How the COLA Linux vermin can continue to pull the "works for me"
> line is a mystery.
>
> They LIE for LIEnux.



The deluded geeks on cola accept the bullshit problems as the "Linux 
experience".  Remember raytard telling us "one or two minor problems in 
10 years of using Linux", or Telnet's claim that he had "Absolutely no 
problems with Linux in 13 years"?

What kind of dishonest person would say something like that?

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnivc3ff.8jt.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2011-06-12, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message
>> news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
>>> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
>>> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>>>
>>
>> Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO, 
>> etc.
>> But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.
>
>   ...then why put up with either Windows or Macs?
>

Linux = run OSS apps.
Windows/Mac = run OSS apps  *OR*  run proprietary apps.

Exactly what part of using Windows/Mac also gives the user access to their 
choice of either OSS or proprietary apps is so complicated that it needs 
further explanation?

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:00:23 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 6/13/2011 12:45 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
> 
>> Linux is untested slop ware. There is little to no accountability so
>> they just churn the shit out pile after pile.
>>
>> How the COLA Linux vermin can continue to pull the "works for me"
>> line is a mystery.
>>
>> They LIE for LIEnux.
> 
> 
> 
> The deluded geeks on cola accept the bullshit problems as the "Linux 
> experience".  Remember raytard telling us "one or two minor problems in 
> 10 years of using Linux", or Telnet's claim that he had "Absolutely no 
> problems with Linux in 13 years"?
> 
> What kind of dishonest person would say something like that?

I remember Telnet Terry Porter's claims and how the Linturds in COLA
circled the wagons to protect him.

There is just so much evidence exposing Linux for the slop ware it
really is I can't believe these Linturds could think they can get away
with all their lies.


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Linux's dismal desktop market share:

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/05/12/the-top-20-strongholds-for-desktop-linux/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html 

Desktop Linux on Life Support:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/is-linux-on-the-desktop-dead--961508

Am Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:16:29 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:

> There is just so much evidence exposing Linux for the slop ware it
> really is I can't believe these Linturds could think they can get away
> with all their lies.

I only have one question: If Linux is so unreliable slopware how come it 
runs fine for so many people?

Yes, occassionally something goes wrong. For example some days ago my X 
crashed. Do you know why?

Backtrace:
[ 46246.742] 0: /usr/bin/X (xorg_backtrace+0x26) [0x49f556]
[ 46246.742] 1: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x60cf9) [0x460cf9]
[ 46246.742] 2: /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x7f6d7e148000+0xf750) 
[0x7f6d7e157750]
[ 46246.742] 3: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so 
(amd_xserver110_xf86SetDesiredModes+0x198) [0x7f6d7b1d7a48]
[ 46246.743] 4: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so 
(amd_xf86SetDesiredModes+0xd) [0x7f6d7ac6464d]
[ 46246.743] 5: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so 
(xdl_xs110_atiddxDisplayEnableDisplays+0x4b) [0x7f6d7ad7ba6b]
[ 46246.743] 6: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so 
(xdl_xs110_atiddxDisplayViewportCallbackDPMS+0x7b) [0x7f6d7ad7f14b]
[ 46246.744] 7: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so 
(atiddxDisplayViewportCallbackDPMS+0xd) [0x7f6d7ac625ed]
[ 46246.744] 8: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so 
(amd_xserver110_xf86DisableUnusedFunctions+0x9e) [0x7f6d7b1d7fde]
[ 46246.744] 9: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so (0x7f6d7a90f000
+0x8d0995) [0x7f6d7b1df995]
[ 46246.744] 10: /usr/bin/X (RRCrtcSet+0x92) [0x4c0212]
[ 46246.744] 11: /usr/bin/X (ProcRRSetCrtcConfig+0x3f3) [0x4c1453]
[ 46246.745] 12: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x2e8d9) [0x42e8d9]
[ 46246.745] 13: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x22b7e) [0x422b7e]
[ 46246.745] 14: /lib/libc.so.6 (__libc_start_main+0xed) [0x7f6d7d0cef6d]
[ 46246.745] 15: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x22e6d) [0x422e6d]
[ 46246.745] Segmentation fault at address 0xa8
[ 46246.745] 
Fatal server error:
[ 46246.745] Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting

If you guessed: "Because Linux is slopware" you are wrong.
It was as usually the high quality closed source Software provided by 
some 3rd party company.

What evidence do you have for your claims?

Am Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:28:05 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:

> Watching Linux Fail:
> http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/

Still no evidence?

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:51:30 +0000, Chris wrote:

> What evidence do you have for your claims?

Flatline--- is a serial FUDder... he doesn't *do* evidence.

-- 
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581 
CentOS 5.6 or VectorLinux Deluxe 6.0
or Linux Mint 10

On 2011-06-13, Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:16:29 -0400 schrieb flatfish+++:
>
>> There is just so much evidence exposing Linux for the slop ware it
>> really is I can't believe these Linturds could think they can get away
>> with all their lies.
>
> I only have one question: If Linux is so unreliable slopware how come it 
> runs fine for so many people?

    According to the Lemming troll mentality it doesn't of course.

    The idea is that some bug/problem report somewhere means that it must
be broken for everyone everywhere. That's a really interesting idea. Of 
course they don't apply it evenhandely.

[deletia]

-- 
	The best OS in the world is ultimately useless         |||
	if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates.      / | \

On 2011-06-13, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
> news:slrnivc3ff.8jt.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2011-06-12, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
>>>> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
>>>> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO, 
>>> etc.
>>> But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.
>>
>>   ...then why put up with either Windows or Macs?
>>
>
> Linux = run OSS apps.
> Windows/Mac = run OSS apps  *OR*  run proprietary apps.

   So?

   Although, if you are gonna whine about the payware then Microsoft
simply mops the floor with Apple. Sure, Windows has it's own inherent
problems but it's got the "well, I wanna PAY for software thing" sewn
up much much better than Apple.

   A Mac is this strange middle ground. It's not nearly as well supported
as Windows and it's not nearly as open as Linux. It's like the worst of 
both worlds.

-- 
	The best OS in the world is ultimately useless         |||
	if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates.      / | \

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrniveq0d.3j9.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2011-06-13, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>> news:slrnivc3ff.8jt.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>> On 2011-06-12, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
>>>>> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
>>>>> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO,
>>>> etc.
>>>> But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.
>>>
>>>   ...then why put up with either Windows or Macs?
>>>
>>
>> Linux = run OSS apps.
>> Windows/Mac = run OSS apps  *OR*  run proprietary apps.
>
>   So?

"So" that's the answer to why "put up with either Windows or Macs."  It's 
the greater range of available software.  Believe it or not most people 
actually use "software" and not fiddle around with the OS all day long.

Ezekiel wrote:

>Believe it or not most people 
>actually use "software" and not fiddle around with the OS all day long.

Believe it or not, modern Linux distros have plenty of software, for a
large chunk of the market.  Many people have no need of those "Windows
only" apps.

How many times does this need to be explained to you, you fsckwitted
asshole?

JEDIDIAH wrote:

> Chris wrote:
>>
>> I only have one question: If Linux is so unreliable slopware how come it 
>> runs fine for so many people?
>
>    According to the Lemming troll mentality it doesn't of course.
>
>    The idea is that some bug/problem report somewhere means that it must
>be broken for everyone everywhere. That's a really interesting idea. Of 
>course they don't apply it evenhandely.

Of course.  And M$ thugs like "Hadron" attack people as "liars" if
they claim that it worked for them.

-- 
"its much more constructive than telling lies about how great Linux is
and how crap MS are doing."  -  "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

useless asshole "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:psrev6pnqhhivhudcu4t05s649506gi683@4ax.com...

snip - UNREAD.

more DOCUMENTED lies from the trolling fsckwit piece of shit turd.

"chrisv" is a liar. "chrisv" is a piece of shit.

useless shit "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:m0sev6p53mhhucm1a7h7971r2f2akaj2gg@4ax.com...


snip - UNREAD.

more DOCUMENTED lies from the useless piece of shit turd.

"chrisv" is a liar. "chrisv" is a stupid piece of shit.

In reply to chrisv who posted:

> Ezekiel wrote:
>
>>Believe it or not most people 
>>actually use "software" and not fiddle around with the OS all day long.
>
> Believe it or not, modern Linux distros have plenty of software, for a
> large chunk of the market.  Many people have no need of those "Windows
> only" apps.
>
> How many times does this need to be explained to you, you fsckwitted
> asshole?

Ah, but he's right in one respect. He just missed a few things out.

Believe it or not most people actually use their Linux "software" and not
fiddle around with the OS all day long getting rid of adware,  trojans &
viruses. 

There see? Much more accurate. :-)

-- 
The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out.
"Microsoft has vast resources, literally billions of dollars in cash, or liquid assets reserves. 
Microsoft is an incredibly successful empire built on the premise of market dominance with low-quality goods." 
-- Former White House adviser Richard A. Clarke --

On 2011-06-14, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
> news:slrniveq0d.3j9.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2011-06-13, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnivc3ff.8jt.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>>> On 2011-06-12, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "flatfish+++" <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:tpuzl8y7frlh.1hmmx2llh4ohq.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:16:30 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For servers or programmers Linux may be just the thing.
>>>>>> For average desktop users, the Linux/foss applications are very poor
>>>>>> compared to the ones offered for Windows and Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mac/Windows users can run mos OSS apps if they want too - Firefox, OO,
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> But they can't do the opposite and run MSO or some other required app.
>>>>
>>>>   ...then why put up with either Windows or Macs?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Linux = run OSS apps.
>>> Windows/Mac = run OSS apps  *OR*  run proprietary apps.
>>
>>   So?
>
> "So" that's the answer to why "put up with either Windows or Macs."  It's 
> the greater range of available software.  Believe it or not most people 
> actually use "software" and not fiddle around with the OS all day long.

    You jokers don't do a very good job of demonstrating that actually.

-- 

   Unauthorized distribution of your work is going to happen. That      ||| 
particular genie left the bottle a long time ago. You can either be    / | \ 
cool about it and possibly gain from it or big the biggest jerk you   
can be and alienate potential fans.

JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2011-06-14, Ezekiel <zeke@nosuchmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "So" that's the answer to why "put up with either Windows or Macs."  It's 
>> the greater range of available software.  Believe it or not most people 
>> actually use "software" and not fiddle around with the OS all day long.
>
>     You jokers don't do a very good job of demonstrating that actually.

'Having a greater range of available software' in this case is simply much
like 'having a greater range of available car manufacturers'.

A lot of heat generated over minor feature differences.

-- 
What is tolerance? -- it is the consequence of humanity.  We are all formed
of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly --
that is the first law of nature.
		-- Voltaire

On 2011-06-14, the following emerged from the brain of JEDIDIAH:
>
>    A Mac is this strange middle ground. It's not nearly as well
>    supported as Windows and it's not nearly as open as Linux. It's
>    like the worst of both worlds.

:-)

There's some truth to that. In the sigmachine it goes.

-- 
http://twitter.com/drumscum | http://drumscum.be
Hasta la vista, baby.
	~ T-101

TomB stated in post 20110615013410.882@usenet.drumscum.be on 6/14/11 4:36
PM:

> On 2011-06-14, the following emerged from the brain of JEDIDIAH:
>> 
>>    A Mac is this strange middle ground. It's not nearly as well
>>    supported as Windows and it's not nearly as open as Linux. It's
>>    like the worst of both worlds.
> 
> :-)
> 
> There's some truth to that. In the sigmachine it goes.

The Mac is a bit in the middle: OSS does a great job on back ends but not
such a great job on user interfaces - and Apple uses each where they work
best.  This does lead to some weaknesses as well, of course, but it allows
Apple's products to, in general, be top of their class.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]