This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!

http://www.infoworld.com/t/end-user-hardware/linux-lovers-more-likely-loathe-the-ipad-895

==============QUOTE==========

"If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
iPad."

"The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
Koelkebeck.)

Perpetuating the geek stereotype, iPad critics also tend to be young,
single men with no children and little interest in family.

Their deep interest in pure, hardcore, state-of-the-art technology
explains Independent Geeks' disdain for the iPad, according to
Koelkebeck. There's nothing particularly new or earth-shattering about
the iPad, he says, given that tablet PCs and touchscreen computers
have been around for quite some time. Through the eyes of a true tech
geek, the iPad is akin to an overgrown, overhyped iPhone that the
mainstream is seemingly gaga for, despite its relatively limited
functionality (compared to a mobile PC) -- and its closed platform."

----------------QUOTE OFF-------------------------

IOW an oddball, a square peg in a round hole, a social misift.

"If, on the other hand, you're a status-minded, highly educated
business professional who enjoys tracking the growth of your stock
portfolio between work projects, you may very well be a fan of the
device. Such are the findings of a recent study by MyType, a maker of
psychological quizzes."

IOW the rest of the world who are interested in doing something with
their lives other than hacking out "crunchy code" from the depths of
their basements.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! 

On 29/07/2010 17:46, exposer wrote:

> "If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
> playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
> iPad."

> "The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
> stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
> games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
> Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
> indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
> Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
> to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
> Koelkebeck.)

That describes me so far, except that I don't indulge in computer games 
all that much at all.

> Perpetuating the geek stereotype, iPad critics also tend to be young,
> single men with no children and little interest in family.

Like all stereotypes, this one breaks down in certain areas.

> Their deep interest in pure, hardcore, state-of-the-art technology
> explains Independent Geeks' disdain for the iPad, according to
> Koelkebeck. There's nothing particularly new or earth-shattering about
> the iPad, he says, given that tablet PCs and touchscreen computers
> have been around for quite some time. Through the eyes of a true tech
> geek, the iPad is akin to an overgrown, overhyped iPhone that the
> mainstream is seemingly gaga for, despite its relatively limited
> functionality (compared to a mobile PC) -- and its closed platform."

That's an accurate description of an iPad.  I also take many of the 
stereotypical attributes of being a 'Linux geek' as a compliment.

> IOW an oddball, a square peg in a round hole, a social misift.

The article didn't mention any of that so I'm afraid those are your 
interpretations.

> "If, on the other hand, you're a status-minded, highly educated
> business professional who enjoys tracking the growth of your stock
> portfolio between work projects, you may very well be a fan of the
> device. Such are the findings of a recent study by MyType, a maker of
> psychological quizzes."

Business is all about conformity.  That's one of the reasons why 
consumerism is having such a negative effect on society.  Or course, as 
an anti-social misfit, I suppose I'm not supposed to care about society 
(although that really seems the province of businessmen in my experience).

> IOW the rest of the world who are interested in doing something with
> their lives other than hacking out "crunchy code" from the depths of
> their basements.

A further invention on your part.  Since you seem incapable of bringing 
any honest debate to the table but prefer to behave like a guttersnipe, 
I can only assume that you deserve the title of social misfit.

> Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

And you're a sheep as well.  There's no surprise there.

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:02:40 +0100, White Spirit
<wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> wrote:

>On 29/07/2010 17:46, exposer wrote:
>

>Like all stereotypes, this one breaks down in certain areas.

Except that this was a study and they have the data to back it up.
That's the point of the article.


>> IOW an oddball, a square peg in a round hole, a social misift.
>
>The article didn't mention any of that so I'm afraid those are your 
>interpretations.

Do you know what a quote is?
Did you see this?

----------------QUOTE OFF-------------------------

No, I suppose uou didn't.



>Business is all about conformity.  That's one of the reasons why 
>consumerism is having such a negative effect on society.  Or course, as 
>an anti-social misfit, I suppose I'm not supposed to care about society 
>(although that really seems the province of businessmen in my experience).

You sound a lot like that idiot "voodoo".
Hmm...

>> IOW the rest of the world who are interested in doing something with
>> their lives other than hacking out "crunchy code" from the depths of
>> their basements.
>
>A further invention on your part.  Since you seem incapable of bringing 
>any honest debate to the table but prefer to behave like a guttersnipe, 
>I can only assume that you deserve the title of social misfit.

It's an opinion that is shared by many.
But as usual, the Linux loons go on the attack blaming others for
Linux's faults.

>And you're a sheep as well.  There's no surprise there.

See above.

You guys are so predictable!

On 29/07/2010 18:08, The Hooded Plumber wrote:

>>> IOW an oddball, a square peg in a round hole, a social misift.

>> The article didn't mention any of that so I'm afraid those are your
>> interpretations.

> Do you know what a quote is?
> Did you see this?

> ----------------QUOTE OFF-------------------------

> No, I suppose uou didn't.

Since you appear to be too dense to have picked up on it, I was pointing 
out that his extremely biased and pejorative interpretation was not an 
accurate summary of their description.

>> A further invention on your part.  Since you seem incapable of bringing
>> any honest debate to the table but prefer to behave like a guttersnipe,
>> I can only assume that you deserve the title of social misfit.

> It's an opinion that is shared by many.

No one in their right mind cares about the opinion of handful of 
unsavoury trolls.

> But as usual, the Linux loons go on the attack blaming others for
> Linux's faults.

I haven't blamed anyone for Linux's purported faults.  It's a shame that 
you have to invent things but, like the OP, you are incapable of honest 
debate.

>> And you're a sheep as well.  There's no surprise there.

> See above.

> You guys are so predictable!

It's an opinion that is shared by many ;)

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:25:06 +0100, White Spirit
<wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> wrote:


>I haven't blamed anyone for Linux's purported faults.  It's a shame that 
>you have to invent things but, like the OP, you are incapable of honest 
>debate.

Honest debate is impossible in COLA.
Less so in CSMA though, depending.

It's been tried many times before and ultimately fails.

It's a simple matter to just float the article, make a few
observations and watch the Linux roaches scatter with the discredit
and blame game routine.

Zealots are like that.
They can't handle what others see in them or their religion so
ultimately everyone else but them is wrong.

Sound familiar?
It should.

The Hooded Plumber wrote:

> You guys are so predictable!

Oh, I don't know about that, flatfish.  Where did you predict that I would 
by now be telling you that by the end of this year, Android tablets would be 
out-selling ipads by better than 2:1?
 - or maybe you'd like to predict otherwise? :-)

How's the cruise going, btw?

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:41:19 +0100, bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>The Hooded Plumber wrote:
>
>> You guys are so predictable!
>
>Oh, I don't know about that, flatfish.  Where did you predict that I would 
>by now be telling you that by the end of this year, Android tablets would be 
>out-selling ipads by better than 2:1?
> - or maybe you'd like to predict otherwise? :-)

I could care less what you predict "Bill".

I prefer to point out how you loons had predicted the ARM processor
would be taking over the netbook market by now.

And then of course there is the classic, and repeatable "This is the
year of Linux", which we have heard for the last 17 years.

And let's not forget about Microsoft going out of business, Windows 7
being a flop, OpenOffice putting MSOffice out of business and so
forth.

Bwaaaaaaaaaa!

It's just a laundry list of failure from the Linux loon camp.


I like Android FWIW.


>How's the cruise going, btw?

You must have missed it, I didn't go.
Too much work for too little money.
A friend of mine took the gig.

Amazing how you and your alter ego quite often seem to show up at the
same time. 
Not always in this group though.

Truly amazing.

Hahahha!

exposer wrote:

> IOW the rest of the world who are interested in doing something with
> their lives other than hacking out "crunchy code" from the depths of
> their basements.
> 
> Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

er....no.... you seem to be saying that most of the world's main interest in 
life is tracking the growth of their stock portfolio.

The only correlation that I have seen is:-

1.  ipads to date have been bought by people with a lot of money (but people 
over 49 were excluded from the figures)
I would have thought that that was pretty obvious.

2. People with a lot of money, as a group, contains a higher-than-average 
proportion of people who are well-educated, business professionals, and who 
spend a lot of time tracking their stock portfolio.
I would have thought that that was pretty obvious.

3.  I'm willing to lay odds that "people who bought ipads" also have a much 
greater chance of living in the U.S. than would be the case for a random 
sample.
I would have thought that that is pretty obvious.

The Hooded Plumber wrote:

>>How's the cruise going, btw?
> 
> You must have missed it, I didn't go.
> Too much work for too little money.
> A friend of mine took the gig.

I must have missed that.

Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
 
> Amazing how you and your alter ego quite often seem to show up at the
> same time.
> Not always in this group though.
> 
> Truly amazing.
> 
> Hahahha!

Amazing indeed, and Hahahha yourself.
Is one permitted to ask what this "aler ego" of *mine* is?????
- and for that matter, which other group(s) are you talking about?  If 
there's somebody else out there who thinks that you are as much of a pillock 
as I do, it's certainly time that I made his/her acquaintance :-)

bbgruff wrote:

>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?

Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.

-- 
"You lied by omission."  -  Hadron Quark, calling an honest man a liar
because Microsoft was criticized without the disclaimer "but Linux
isn't perfect either" (regarding video players)

exposer wrote:

> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
> 
> http://www.infoworld.com/t/end-user-hardware/linux-lovers-more-likely-
loathe-the-ipad-895
> 
> ==============QUOTE==========
> 
> "If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
> playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
> iPad."
> 
> "The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
> stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
> games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
> Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
> indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
> Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
> to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
> Koelkebeck.)
> 
> Perpetuating the geek stereotype, iPad critics also tend to be young,
> single men with no children and little interest in family.


And that why geeks are making off with your girl friend and using Linux?

So that figures then the average iPiddy user is gay
and definitely not geeky.

Thats why they spend all their
day being talked down to by appil fan maids
whilst fondling abnormal porn on their iPiddy.

Thats why Steve Blow Jobs has banned normal porn from iPiddy.
He doesn't like his creations being fondled with
sticky hands. Makes for a hell of lot of returned iPiddies.

chrisv wrote:

> bbgruff wrote:
> 
>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
> 
> Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.

He's not the one who was on about cock-sucking is he?
I thought that was a pre-pubescent American kid on Summer vacation?
 

bbgruff wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
> 
>> bbgruff wrote:
>> 
>>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
>> 
>> Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.
> 
> He's not the one who was on about cock-sucking is he?
> I thought that was a pre-pubescent American kid on Summer vacation?


No they like real fun and play with real girls.

I'm afraid flatcake has fallen for Henry machines that suck.

The Hooded Plumber wrote:



>>I haven't blamed anyone for Linux's purported faults.  It's a shame that
>>you have to invent things but, like the OP, you are incapable of honest
>>debate.
> 
> Honest debate is impossible in COLA.


So you resort to nym-shifting and your tirade of anti-Linux trolling
on behalf of appil crocporation.


Journalists reading this newsgroup will have a lot to think
about how paid asstroturfers from big crocporations
have invaded Linux discussion groups now that Linux has
begun taking off.

chrisv "beady-eyed faerie; only thinks of himself; didn't have enough
oxygen at birth" wailed

> bbgruff FUCKING DOGSHIT! wrote: BUTT FLOSS! HEAD LOUSE!
> CUNT-STABBER! FARM BOY! ARSEHOLE!
>
>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
>
> Ask FUCKING ASS PIRATE! QUEER! ARSE PRINCESS! SCROTUM!
> BIKINI-STUFFERS! LOVE TRAIN! CUNTBREATH! him about his obsession
> FUCKING ARSE LICK! BED HOPPER! with sucking cocks. BOWEL! CROTCH
> ROCKET! INNARDS!
>
> -- 
> "You FUCKING SMARTALECK NIGGER! JAP! CRABS! lied by omission." 
> FUCKING ARSE-PIRATE! HOSE BAG! -  Hadron Quark, FUCKING CROTCH
> VOMITER! calling an honest man FUCKING BLACK SNAKE! a liar because
> Microsoft FUCKING ARSE-LEECH! was criticized without the FUCKING BRA
> BUDDIES! disclaimer "but Linux isn't FUCKING ANAL DANCE! perfect
> either" (regarding video FUCKING AARDVARK! players) DRIVE THAT KNIFE
> SMACK IN YOUR CUNT! BIGGUS DICKUS!


Pervert!

-- 
Pickled Chilli Mush with Muscadine Duck Lettuce

Sauced-Up Deer Heart Scrapple with Trashcan Pinto Bean Cake

Stewed Mudskipper Succotash in a Tub of Milkweed

bbgruff wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
> 
>> bbgruff wrote:
>> 
>>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
>> 
>> Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.
> 
> He's not the one who was on about cock-sucking is he?
> I thought that was a pre-pubescent American kid on Summer vacation?

Ah - OK - been back a bit, and found all the cock-sucking/fagots, etc.

So what's going on, flatfish?
Did you invent this plumber nym so that you could pretend to be some young 
kid foul-mouthing in the group, and them got caught out or something?
 - or had you just forgotten about all the obscenities and carried on using 
the nym by mistake?

It must be really difficult trying to deal with all those virtual 
personalities at the same time.  Why don't you just choose *one* and then 
stick to it?

7 "dribbling transvestite; can't get a girlfriend; easy prey to gross
distortions and phobias" ached

> bbgruff wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> bbgruff wrote:
>>>
>>>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
>>>
>>> Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.
>>
>> He's not the one who was on about cock-sucking is he?
>> I thought that was a pre-pubescent American kid on Summer vacation?
>
>
> No thuhy like real fun an' play with real girlies. *spit*
>
> Ah'm afraid flatcake has fallen fer Henry machines that suck.
>
>

Your spellchecker is fucked, you must be using Linux?

-- 
Oil Smoked Beef Jerky Casserole with Chicken-Fried Pork Rinds

Deep-Fried Toad Skin Scrapple with Kettle Fried Turnips

Pulled Carrion Beetle Pone in Salted Couch Grass

7 "piss-stained gas-queen; raging homosexual; fancies despicable
itchy-scratchies with unfit Marmite miner" spurted

> tHe hOoDeD PlUmBeR WrOtE:
>
>
>
>>>I haven't blamed anyone for Linux's purported faults.  It's a shame that
>>>you have to invent things but, like the OP, you are incapable of honest
>>>debate.
>>
>> Honest debate is impossible in COLA.
>
>
> So yOu rEsOrT To nYm-sHiFtInG AnD YoUr tIrAdE Of aNtI-LiNuX TrOlLiNg
> oN BeHaLf oF ApPiL CrOcPoRaTiOn.
>
>
> JoUrNaLiStS ReAdInG ThIs nEwSgRoUp wIlL HaVe a lOt tO ThInK AbOuT
> HoW PaId aSsTrOtUrFeRs fRoM BiG CrOcPoRaTiOnS HaVe iNvAdEd lInUx
> dIsCuSsIoN GrOuPs nOw tHaT LiNuX HaS BeGuN TaKiNg oFf.
>
Why?, ask Hans van Raaijk!

-- 
Deep-Fried Hog Heart Hash on a bed of Cornbread

Bathtub Gin Roadkill Succotash with Stewed Grits

Kool-Aid Snapping Turtle Chitlins with Pit Barbecue Cheez Whiz

7 "wheezing turd-packer; wants to fuck his sister; takes pleasure in
sordid dick-drinking with macho butt plunger" fulminated

> 'sposa' wrote:
>
>> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
>>
>> http://www.infoworld.com/t/end-user-hardware/linux-lovers-more-likely-
> loade-de-ipad-895
>>
>> ==============QUOTE==========
>>
>> "If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
>> playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
>> iPad."
>>
>> "The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
>> stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
>> games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
>> Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
>> indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
>> Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
>> to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
>> Koelkebeck.)
>>
>> Perpetuating the geek stereotype, iPad critics also tend to be young,
>> single men with no children and little interest in family.
>
>
> And dat why geeks are makin' off wid yo' fine yung bitch homey and
> usin' Linux?
>
> So's dat figures den de average iPiddy usa' be gay and definitely
> not geeky.
>
> Dats why dey spend all deir day bein' talked waaay down t' by appil
> fan maids whilst fondlin' abnormal porn on deir iPiddy.
>
> Dats why Steve Blow Jobs gots'ta banned normal porn fum iPiddy. He
> doesn't likes his creashuns bein' fondled wid sticky hands. You de
> man! Makes for some hell uh lot uh returned iPiddies. You de man!
>
"Steve Blow Jobs", now you're talking Josh!

-- 
Cheese-Filled Rat Hoe Cakes with Orange Nehi Bacon

Screen Door Grilled Jalapeno Gumbo with Moonshine Duck Lettuce

Kettle Cooked Grasshopper Stew with Grease-Fried Fritos

On 29/07/10 18:33, The Hooded Plumber wrote:

> Honest debate is impossible in COLA.

Given that I have never seen you attempt to engage in any, I'm not 
really convinced that you are in a position to make such an assertion.

> It's been tried many times before and ultimately fails.

> It's a simple matter to just float the article, make a few
> observations and watch the Linux roaches scatter with the discredit
> and blame game routine.

That's one interpretation.  The same accusation could be levelled at 
WinTrolls whenever any article is posted that is supportive of Linux or 
critical of Microsoft.

> Zealots are like that.

Do you truly believe that you and several others of your ilk are not 
zealots?

> They can't handle what others see in them or their religion so
> ultimately everyone else but them is wrong.

A more accurate assessment is that years of people trolling and 
attacking the group has polarised opinions to the point where there is 
no longer any common ground.

> Sound familiar?
> It should.

Well, yes, you do rather repeat yourself.

Verily I say unto thee, that 7 
<website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> spake thusly:
> exposer wrote:
[nothing]

> And that why geeks are making off with your 
> girl friend

Sloppy seconds after /that/ creep?

Eugh!

--
K.
http://slated.org

exposer wrote:

> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!

Is this another flatfish I see before me.....???

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:08:45 +0100, White Spirit
<wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> wrote:

>On 29/07/10 18:33, The Hooded Plumber wrote:
>
>> Honest debate is impossible in COLA.
>
>Given that I have never seen you attempt to engage in any, I'm not 
>really convinced that you are in a position to make such an assertion.

Sigh...
Well seeing as your response is the best of the bunch, and at least
you read the article, I'll favor you with a response.

I've tried it.
We have all tried it and it's impossible to hold an honest debate
here.

Extremist nuts like [Homer], 7, HPT, suckups like Ahlstrom, morons
like Terry Porter and so forth make it impossible.
They will argue to the death, their points no matter how wrong they
may be.
It's pointless to even try so why bother?

IOW when in Rome etc.

>> It's been tried many times before and ultimately fails.
>
>> It's a simple matter to just float the article, make a few
>> observations and watch the Linux roaches scatter with the discredit
>> and blame game routine.
>
>That's one interpretation.  The same accusation could be levelled at 
>WinTrolls whenever any article is posted that is supportive of Linux or 
>critical of Microsoft.

I've stated many times my dislike of Microsoft.
Was opposed to Vista, IOW agreed it wasn't what it should have been.
etc.

The problem with supportive articles for Linux, is that there are so
very few honest ones posted here.

If it isn't a SPAMMER posting misleading, incorrect and downright
lies, it's an idiot like 7 posting his usual drivel or a moron like
Terry Porter concluding that because his small Linux and technically
oriented website gets 80 percent Linux hits (something like that),
Linux is taking over.

You can't have a reasonable discussion with people like that.

>> Zealots are like that.
>
>Do you truly believe that you and several others of your ilk are not 
>zealots?

Show me where I am zealotous about Microsoft.
I'm not.
I use what works for me, including Linux.

The zealots are on the Linux side, which is fair enough since this
group is about Linux, or the Mac side.
I don't see any Windows zealtos in here at all.

You guys just don't like it when quality Windows applications are
compared to some of the junk you Linux users have.

>> They can't handle what others see in them or their religion so
>> ultimately everyone else but them is wrong.
>
>A more accurate assessment is that years of people trolling and 
>attacking the group has polarised opinions to the point where there is 
>no longer any common ground.

Advocacy groups are polarized by default.

>> Sound familiar?
>> It should.
>
>Well, yes, you do rather repeat yourself.

Yawn..

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:01:04 +0100, bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>exposer wrote:
>
>> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
>
>Is this another flatfish I see before me.....???

You act like you've discovered the Holy Grail.

You're late to the party once again.
Someone has to keep you loons on your fins, errr, toes :)

In article <smb3565p4tlf0qlp5013nduc7494jhujta@4ax.com>,
 exposer<exposer18928frother@killmail.org> wrote:

> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
> 
> http://www.infoworld.com/t/end-user-hardware/linux-lovers-more-likely-loathe-t
> he-ipad-895
> 
> ==============QUOTE==========
> 
> "If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
> playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
> iPad."
> 
> "The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
> stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
> games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
> Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
> indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
> Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
> to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
> Koelkebeck.)

Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care 
enough about technology to pick an alternative platform rather than just 
going with the default option. Of course they're going to have higher 
standards than your average Windows user.

[snip]

-- 
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:09:10 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:


>Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care 
>enough about technology to pick an alternative platform rather than just 
>going with the default option. Of course they're going to have higher 
>standards than your average Windows user.
>
>[snip]

I don't agree totally.
I think the demographics are pretty spot on in terms of the type of
person who buys a Mac however I think there is a good portion of
status symbol, or snobbery involved.

Not as much as in the past before the iPhone and other Apple non
computer gadgets, but it is still there.

It's the same reason why people will buy a Gucci bag.
It's not that it's better than an average bag, but it's the status and
every woman (or in Marti's case, "man") knows what a Gucci bag looks
like.

My personal experience with people who have Apple products is that
they don't want to mess with the innards and most have had bad
experiences with Windows at one time or another.

They see a product that works right out of the box, maybe they have
used an iPhone or iPod etc and like the Apple mystique so they try an
Apple computer.

In the studio, the Mac still rules just because of all the above and
Linux drools because it can't manage to do what a Mac can do.
Mac of course was first with ProTools so the base is there and since
ProTools is the standard the Mac is still top choice.

Things are changing though and Windows is gaining ground.

The Hooded Plumber stated in post e6i456de7uaeh0a7ljobdomohue4v5hqgu@4ax.com
on 7/29/10 8:59 PM:

> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:09:10 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care
>> enough about technology to pick an alternative platform rather than just
>> going with the default option. Of course they're going to have higher
>> standards than your average Windows user.
>> 
>> [snip]
> 
> I don't agree totally.
> I think the demographics are pretty spot on in terms of the type of
> person who buys a Mac however I think there is a good portion of
> status symbol, or snobbery involved.

If so I do not know many such folks.  I will not say there are none, but it
is not the norm.

> Not as much as in the past before the iPhone and other Apple non
> computer gadgets, but it is still there.
> 
> It's the same reason why people will buy a Gucci bag.
> It's not that it's better than an average bag, but it's the status and
> every woman (or in Marti's case, "man") knows what a Gucci bag looks
> like.
> 
> My personal experience with people who have Apple products is that
> they don't want to mess with the innards and most have had bad
> experiences with Windows at one time or another.

That describes most people.
 
> They see a product that works right out of the box, maybe they have
> used an iPhone or iPod etc and like the Apple mystique so they try an
> Apple computer.
> 
> In the studio, the Mac still rules just because of all the above and
> Linux drools because it can't manage to do what a Mac can do.
> Mac of course was first with ProTools so the base is there and since
> ProTools is the standard the Mac is still top choice.
> 
> Things are changing though and Windows is gaining ground.
> 



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

In article <e6i456de7uaeh0a7ljobdomohue4v5hqgu@4ax.com>,
 The Hooded Plumber <dimethalchrystalexiter@fakeee.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:09:10 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> >Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care 
> >enough about technology to pick an alternative platform rather than just 
> >going with the default option. Of course they're going to have higher 
> >standards than your average Windows user.
> >
> >[snip]
> 
> I don't agree totally.
> I think the demographics are pretty spot on in terms of the type of
> person who buys a Mac however I think there is a good portion of
> status symbol, or snobbery involved.
> 
> Not as much as in the past before the iPhone and other Apple non
> computer gadgets, but it is still there.
> 
> It's the same reason why people will buy a Gucci bag.
> It's not that it's better than an average bag, but it's the status and
> every woman (or in Marti's case, "man") knows what a Gucci bag looks
> like.

I won't claim there's none of that at all with Apple products, but it is 
my experience that people who don't care about or don't recognize the 
legitimacy of criteria like design or user experience in their computing 
products often mistake those who _do_ care for snobs or status seekers, 
when they're not.

High fashion isn't particularly analogous, because design there doesn't 
focus on _use cases_ the same way it ideally does with computing 
products. A better analogy is to architecture, which at its best 
similarly combines aesthetic concerns with technical ones, to produce 
something uniquely intended for a particular use case. (What Apple tries 
to do.) And at its worst, produces cookie-cutter McMansions with lots of 
features (Granite countertops! Sunken living room!) but no real 
attention to detail and no overall vision. (The approach taken by many 
of Apple's competitors.)

[snip]

-- 
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes

On 30/07/2010 03:43, The Hooded Plumber wrote:

> You guys just don't like it when quality Windows applications are
> compared to some of the junk you Linux users have.

The other comments were moot but I think this one bears commenting on.

Personally, none of the Linux software I use is junk.  It's stable, does 
the job perfectly and is feature-rich.  I don't find any fault with the 
GUIs.  I won't deny that video editing, music production and programmes 
like Photoshop are more mature than alternatives available for Linux, 
but Linux is slowly catching up in that regard.  However, I do think 
that JACK is too difficult to configure for many users and could do with 
better integration.  Another point of contention is the choice of office 
suites, but I must say that I prefer OpenOffice to Microsoft Office, 
which I have felt for a long time is bloated, although it does seem 
stable these days.

In any event, as far as I am concerned, the few advantages presented by 
Windows in having certain professional programmes is far outweighed by 
the performance of the operating system itself.  I have always found 
Windows to be sluggish, sometimes unresponsive, and prone to instability 
that can cause a crash at the worst possible time.  I have lost count of 
the number of times I have been debugging with Visual Studio and believe 
that I have finally traced an obscure bug when everything locks up and 
has to be manually reset.  I would prefer to be employed developing for 
Linux in the first instance, but experiences like that (and many others 
I could mention) certainly act as a spur.

Another irritating aspect of Windows is the necessity for anti-virus 
software.  I have never seen an AV programme that doesn't slow Windows 
down and my work machine is painful enough already at start-up.

Verily I say unto thee, that bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> spake 
thusly:
> exposer wrote:


> > This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!


> Is this another flatfish I see before me.....???

Out damn-ed spot.

--
K.
http://slated.org

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Hash: SHA1

On 07/30/2010 04:12 AM, White Spirit wrote:
> (snip)
> Another irritating aspect of Windows is the necessity for anti-virus
> software.  I have never seen an AV programme that doesn't slow Windows
> down and my work machine is painful enough already at start-up.

If you're extra paranoid (like me) try ESET NOD32 Beta:
http://beta.eset.com/linux

It works and is really fast.

- -- 
People should read more.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:MithrandirAgain
"All that is gold does not glitter,
not all those who wander are lost;
the old that is strong does not wither,
deep roots are not reached by the frost.
- From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
a light from the shadows shall spring;
renewed shall be blade that was broken,
the crownless again shall be king."
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Homer wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee, that bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> spake
> thusly:
>> exposer wrote:
> 
> 
>> > This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
> 
> 
>> Is this another flatfish I see before me.....???
> 
> Out damn-ed spot.

Is it true that "There's no plaice like gnome"?

 - and if so, what about the corollary?
     "No gnome(users) like plaice"? :-)

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:vak35657tosjmcfmtvdf29fsg78bunl90i@4ax.com...
> bbgruff wrote:
>
>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
>
> Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.
>


chrisv is a cock sucking liar. chrisv is a piece of shit.

The Hooded Plumber <dimethalchrystalexi...@fakeee.org> wrote:
> ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> >Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care
> >enough about technology to pick an alternative platform rather than just
> >going with the default option. Of course they're going to have higher
> >standards than your average Windows user.
>
> >[snip]
>
> I don't agree totally.
> I think the demographics are pretty spot on in terms of the type of
> person who buys a Mac however I think there is a good portion of
> status symbol, or snobbery involved.
>
> Not as much as in the past before the iPhone and other Apple non
> computer gadgets, but it is still there.

Naturally (obviously?), its not going to be a simplistic binary yes/no
(all-or-nothing) situation:  the Devil is in the Details in terms of
ascertaining what percentage this may be ... and the threshold upon
which that may (or may not) become significant.

Say for sake of illustration that the percentages of 'Status Symbol'
based buyers is 50% ... does this then invalidate the 50% balance who
weren't buying it as a Status Symbol?    Probably not.   And as the SS
%'s become even lower, even less so.


> It's the same reason why people will buy a Gucci bag.
> It's not that it's better than an average bag, but it's the status and
> every woman (or in Marti's case, "man") knows what a Gucci bag looks
> like.

FWIW, this observation is far from unique to Apple...or even High
Fashion.   Spend some time with sports car enthusiasts and you'll find
that there's an acknowledgement that some owners are "Gold Chainer"
types who bought a sports car for its marquee/reputation ... not for
what it can do.

   ...and these Gold-Chainer's are often very easily spotted out if
they
   venture out onto the track, as their ignorance often means that
they
   forgo preparations (such as walking the Autocross track layout).
Thus,
   by the 4th cone, they're off-course and DNF'ed despite owning an
expensive
   aftermarketed turbo-machine that's invariably black and
meticulously detailed.


> My personal experience with people who have Apple products is that
> they don't want to mess with the innards and most have had bad
> experiences with Windows at one time or another.


First part:   this statement tries to infer that "Tinkering in the
Guts (Innards)" is for some reason a positive attribute:  how is this
so?   I agree that *historically* this used to be true, but after 20+
years of technological advancements in PCs, isn't it about time that
we can put the BS of having to cope with unreliable junk behind us?
While there certainly are some hobbiests who enjoy it, the reality is
that this activity is very strongly shrinking across the entire
market, as over 50% of all personal computers being sold in the
Western markets are laptops.

Second part:  pretty much everyone who has any computer experience has
Windows experience.   As such, its pretty unlikely that they've not
had a 'bad' Windows experience at one time or another.  As such, isn't
the underlying message here perhaps that the general consumer is
getting fed up with the mainstream supplier of junky product and is
increasingly willing to try the smaller upstart?

For a parallel, look at the history of the USA's automobile market:
Detroit's "Big 3" were dominant in the marketpalce through the 1970s,
but they failed to improve their game (ie, make more reliable
products) and were slowly-but-surely overtaken by upstarts (Japan
manufacturers) who offered better value to consumers.  In the end,
consumers voted with their wallet - - despite the fact that this other
product had a higher initial purchase price.


> They see a product that works right out of the box, maybe they have
> used an iPhone or iPod etc and like the Apple mystique so they try an
> Apple computer.

There's a lot to be said about "mindshare" and "halo products".
Bottom line is that they aren't frivolities to be utterly ignored in
terms of promoting one's brand.


> In the studio, the Mac still rules just because of all the above and
> Linux drools because it can't manage to do what a Mac can do.
> Mac of course was first with ProTools so the base is there and since
> ProTools is the standard the Mac is still top choice.

Personally, I don't think that Linux is a horrible product:  its
desktop incarnation is merely is at a huge disadvantage (which is IMO
quite likely to be insurmountable) because of its business structure -
- or more accurately, its lack thereof, which prevents it from gaining
ground through resourcing and brand promotion.  The fact that Linux
has had success in non-desktop areas illustrate its worth.


> Things are changing though and Windows is gaining ground.

On the one hand, we could say "It had damn better be able to!" given
its overall market dominance.

However, I do think you're right in a way, because even as relatively
small as the Mac market is, it is broken down into sub-segments and
the handwriting that I currently see on the wall is that:

   ... while Apple is making good inroads into the home consumer
segment (IIRC, up to roughly now 10% total (home+business) marketshare
in the USA, which probably breaks down to roughly 20% share in the
home computer demographic) ...

when it comes to looking at Apple's "Pro" product lines, they appear
to me to be weak and thus, they are vulnerable.

For an example on the latter, Apple just announced a refresh on their
Mac Pro (available in August).  Not only was it 17 months between
refreshes, but at the base model's end, it essentially consisted of
merely:

*  a tiny (2.66GHz to 2.8GHz) speed bump
*  replaced an obsolete 640GB HDD with a soon-to-be-obsolete 1TB HDD
*  replaced an obsolete Graphics card with a current-state-of-the-
shelf model
*  zero new I/O ports (no USB3, or FW1600 or FW3200)
*  zero change to internal SATA  (still SATA-II, not -III)
*  etc
*  zero price reduction

Golly, how utterly underwhelming.  Combine this with similarly "stale"
Pro software tools - - this hardly bodes well for maintaining status
quo within this market subsegment.



-hh

bbgruff wrote:

>bbgruff wrote:
>> chrisv wrote:
>>> bbgruff wrote:
>>> 
>>>>Tell me though - why do you keep nym-shifting, flatfish?
>>> 
>>> Ask him about his obsession with sucking cocks.
>> 
>> He's not the one who was on about cock-sucking is he?
>> I thought that was a pre-pubescent American kid on Summer vacation?
>
>Ah - OK - been back a bit, and found all the cock-sucking/fagots, etc.
>
>So what's going on, flatfish?
>Did you invent this plumber nym so that you could pretend to be some young 
>kid foul-mouthing in the group, and them got caught out or something?
> - or had you just forgotten about all the obscenities and carried on using 
>the nym by mistake?

Did the mentally-ill POS respond?

The troll is probably thinking "I'm not mentally-ill.  There's nothing
wrong with someone my age to getting his kicks with such lies and
filth.  I can act normal when I want to."

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:43:50 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:


>I won't claim there's none of that at all with Apple products, but it is 
>my experience that people who don't care about or don't recognize the 
>legitimacy of criteria like design or user experience in their computing 
>products often mistake those who _do_ care for snobs or status seekers, 
>when they're not.

Sometimes but the two are not mutually exclusive.
"Caring" about computing can mean many things.

Some people, who just want things to work when they plug it in and not
be concerned about the bits and bytes are sometimes considered people
who don't care.
Especially by Linux dweebs.

>High fashion isn't particularly analogous, because design there doesn't 
>focus on _use cases_ the same way it ideally does with computing 
>products. A better analogy is to architecture, which at its best 
>similarly combines aesthetic concerns with technical ones, to produce 
>something uniquely intended for a particular use case. (What Apple tries 
>to do.) And at its worst, produces cookie-cutter McMansions with lots of 
>features (Granite countertops! Sunken living room!) but no real 
>attention to detail and no overall vision. (The approach taken by many 
>of Apple's competitors.)

Disagree.
There is a certain snob factor with Apple products.
IMHO most of it comes from quality and innovation, but it's there
anyway.

Fashion is a perfect example.

Why do you think Apple made the ear buds white for example?
Why do you think Apple put the light up logo on the lid of the
Macbooks?
etc.

Answer is so OTHER people know the user is a Machead, partially to
advertise the Mac, but more so to build the ego of the user.

It's like people who wear a fancy sweater with the tag outside the
garment.
Or people who keep their ski lift tickets on their jacket for weeks
after they left the slope.

>[snip]

On 2010-07-30, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> In article <smb3565p4tlf0qlp5013nduc7494jhujta@4ax.com>,
>  exposer<exposer18928frother@killmail.org> wrote:
>
>> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
>> 
>> http://www.infoworld.com/t/end-user-hardware/linux-lovers-more-likely-loathe-t
>> he-ipad-895
>> 
>> ==============QUOTE==========
>> 
>> "If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
>> playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
>> iPad."
>> 
>> "The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
>> stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
>> games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
>> Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
>> indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
>> Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
>> to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
>> Koelkebeck.)
>
> Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care 

....except the iPad is not a Mac. It is an overgrown iPod.

[deletia]

-- 
    ...of course if you are forced against your will to use Windows in    |||
the day time your bound to have a lot to vent about in the evening.      / | \

In article <slrni567ec.qs8.jedi@nomad.mishnet>,
 JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> On 2010-07-30, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In article <smb3565p4tlf0qlp5013nduc7494jhujta@4ax.com>,
> >  exposer<exposer18928frother@killmail.org> wrote:
> >
> >> This article nails the Linux loons perfectly!!
> >> 
> >> http://www.infoworld.com/t/end-user-hardware/linux-lovers-more-likely-loath
> >> e-t
> >> he-ipad-895
> >> 
> >> ==============QUOTE==========
> >> 
> >> "If you're a self-directed, science-minded nonconformist who enjoys
> >> playing video games on your Linux PC, you probably don't much like the
> >> iPad."
> >> 
> >> "The iPad haters, aka the Independent Geeks, fit the classic male geek
> >> stereotype: They shun conformity, prize self direction, enjoy video
> >> games, and are interested in science, electronics, computers, and the
> >> Internet. They're also partial to Linux: "One of the strongest single
> >> indicators of being an iPad critic is a preference for the Linux over
> >> Windows or Macintosh." (Interestingly, "even Mac users are more likely
> >> to criticize the product than Windows users," according to
> >> Koelkebeck.)
> >
> > Makes sense. Mac users are a self-selected group of people who care 
> 
> ...except the iPad is not a Mac. It is an overgrown iPod.

I was responding to the sentence "even Mac users are more likely to 
criticize the product than Windows users", which I'm pretty sure is 
about Mac users.

-- 
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes

In article <27v55698ljqpvvm08pn7v7fopadh67seud@4ax.com>,
 The Hooded Plumber <dimethalchrystalexiter@fakeee.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:43:50 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> >I won't claim there's none of that at all with Apple products, but 
> >it is my experience that people who don't care about or don't 
> >recognize the legitimacy of criteria like design or user experience 
> >in their computing products often mistake those who _do_ care for 
> >snobs or status seekers, when they're not.
> 
> Sometimes but the two are not mutually exclusive. "Caring" about 
> computing can mean many things.

Yes, it can. But it _can't_ mean what most Windows users do, namely 
picking the 'default option' without giving it any particular thought.

> Some people, who just want things to work when they plug it in and 
> not be concerned about the bits and bytes are sometimes considered 
> people who don't care. Especially by Linux dweebs.
> 
> >High fashion isn't particularly analogous, because design there 
> >doesn't focus on _use cases_ the same way it ideally does with 
> >computing products. A better analogy is to architecture, which at 
> >its best similarly combines aesthetic concerns with technical ones, 
> >to produce something uniquely intended for a particular use case. 
> >(What Apple tries to do.) And at its worst, produces cookie-cutter 
> >McMansions with lots of features (Granite countertops! Sunken living 
> >room!) but no real attention to detail and no overall vision. (The 
> >approach taken by many of Apple's competitors.)
> 
> Disagree. There is a certain snob factor with Apple products. IMHO 
> most of it comes from quality and innovation, but it's there anyway.
> 
> Fashion is a perfect example.
> 
> Why do you think Apple made the ear buds white for example? Why do 
> you think Apple put the light up logo on the lid of the Macbooks? 
> etc.
> 
> Answer is so OTHER people know the user is a Machead, partially to 
> advertise the Mac, but more so to build the ego of the user.
> 
> It's like people who wear a fancy sweater with the tag outside the 
> garment. Or people who keep their ski lift tickets on their jacket 
> for weeks after they left the slope.

I didn't say there were no purely stylistic or branding elements to 
Apple products. Merely that fashion is an inapt comparison because high 
fashion items are distinguished from regular items of the same type 
_solely_ by stylistic and branding elements. This is not true of Apple 
products; Apple has a design philosophy that also influences 
_substantive_ design criteria (e.g. the iPad's form factor, which 
actually allows it to be used differently from a device that, say, 
weighed twice as much) and product functionality.

-- 
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes

chrisv wrote:
> bbgruff wrote:
> 
>> So what's going on, flatfish? Did you invent this plumber nym so
>> that you could pretend to be some young kid foul-mouthing in the
>> group, and them got caught out or something? - or had you just
>> forgotten about all the obscenities and carried on using the nym by
>> mistake?
> 
> Did the mentally-ill POS respond?

For the time being, I have my filters fully enabled.  Not seeing the
filth from these slimes is refreshing.  Good to see the air is clean for
a change.  :-)

-- 
HPT

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:35:13 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:

>In article <27v55698ljqpvvm08pn7v7fopadh67seud@4ax.com>,
> The Hooded Plumber <dimethalchrystalexiter@fakeee.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:43:50 -0400, ZnU <znu@fake.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> >I won't claim there's none of that at all with Apple products, but 
>> >it is my experience that people who don't care about or don't 
>> >recognize the legitimacy of criteria like design or user experience 
>> >in their computing products often mistake those who _do_ care for 
>> >snobs or status seekers, when they're not.
>> 
>> Sometimes but the two are not mutually exclusive. "Caring" about 
>> computing can mean many things.
>
>Yes, it can. But it _can't_ mean what most Windows users do, namely 
>picking the 'default option' without giving it any particular thought.

Most people have been taught that "default" means overall works best.
How many times do you see dialog boxes that say something like "choose
defaults unless you are an experienced user" or something like that.


>> Some people, who just want things to work when they plug it in and 
>> not be concerned about the bits and bytes are sometimes considered 
>> people who don't care. Especially by Linux dweebs.
>> 
>> >High fashion isn't particularly analogous, because design there 
>> >doesn't focus on _use cases_ the same way it ideally does with 
>> >computing products. A better analogy is to architecture, which at 
>> >its best similarly combines aesthetic concerns with technical ones, 
>> >to produce something uniquely intended for a particular use case. 
>> >(What Apple tries to do.) And at its worst, produces cookie-cutter 
>> >McMansions with lots of features (Granite countertops! Sunken living 
>> >room!) but no real attention to detail and no overall vision. (The 
>> >approach taken by many of Apple's competitors.)
>> 
>> Disagree. There is a certain snob factor with Apple products. IMHO 
>> most of it comes from quality and innovation, but it's there anyway.
>> 
>> Fashion is a perfect example.
>> 
>> Why do you think Apple made the ear buds white for example? Why do 
>> you think Apple put the light up logo on the lid of the Macbooks? 
>> etc.
>> 
>> Answer is so OTHER people know the user is a Machead, partially to 
>> advertise the Mac, but more so to build the ego of the user.
>> 
>> It's like people who wear a fancy sweater with the tag outside the 
>> garment. Or people who keep their ski lift tickets on their jacket 
>> for weeks after they left the slope.
>
>I didn't say there were no purely stylistic or branding elements to 
>Apple products. Merely that fashion is an inapt comparison because high 
>fashion items are distinguished from regular items of the same type 
>_solely_ by stylistic and branding elements. This is not true of Apple 
>products; Apple has a design philosophy that also influences 
>_substantive_ design criteria (e.g. the iPad's form factor, which 
>actually allows it to be used differently from a device that, say, 
>weighed twice as much) and product functionality.

Of course it does, I never say it didn't.
The snob factor is there and a certain type of user buys Macs over
Windows or Linux machines.
I'm simply saying that the demographics in that study ring true and
match my experience.

This could go on forever, I think we should just agree to disagree.

In article 
<e87ba82a-bb96-45b3-843a-aab062306c5f@u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>,
 -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

[snip]

> For an example on the latter, Apple just announced a refresh on their
> Mac Pro (available in August).  Not only was it 17 months between
> refreshes, but at the base model's end, it essentially consisted of
> merely:
> 
> *  a tiny (2.66GHz to 2.8GHz) speed bump
> *  replaced an obsolete 640GB HDD with a soon-to-be-obsolete 1TB HDD
> *  replaced an obsolete Graphics card with a current-state-of-the-
> shelf model
> *  zero new I/O ports (no USB3, or FW1600 or FW3200)
> *  zero change to internal SATA  (still SATA-II, not -III)
> *  etc
> *  zero price reduction
> 
> Golly, how utterly underwhelming.  Combine this with similarly "stale"
> Pro software tools - - this hardly bodes well for maintaining status
> quo within this market subsegment.

The Mac Pro line is almost the same as what you get from Dell in the 
form of, say, a custom-configured Dell Precision T7500, at almost the 
same price. The lackluster upgrade has more to do with there being 
little movement at the high-end of the PC market these days -- in terms 
of processors, for instance, Apple's pretty much just offering what 
Intel's got virtually as soon as Intel actually has it in enough 
quantity.

Faster FireWire makes little sense with Light Peak coming next year. USB 
3 would have been nice, but it's a lot easier to wait for Intel to 
integrate it. SATA-II vs. SATA-III makes nearly no difference as an 
internal interface, since there's a separate channel for each drive, and 
how many individual drives can exceed SATA-II's bandwidth?

The issue with pro software tools -- specifically with Final Cut, 
because Logic Pro got a big overhaul and 64-bit support in January and 
Aperture had a major update in February -- is almost certainly 
lifecycle-related. The Final Cut 7 release was likely a bit lackluster 
precisely _because_ most of the resources are dedicated to a multi-year 
project to move the suite to 64-bit Cocoa and probably retool it for 
Core Image, OpenCL and GCD. Wait and see if I'm not right.

-- 
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes

ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> =A0-hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > For an example on the latter, Apple just announced a refresh on their
> > Mac Pro (available in August). =A0Not only was it 17 months between
> > refreshes, but...
>
> The Mac Pro line is almost the same as what you get from Dell in the
> form of, say, a custom-configured Dell Precision T7500, at almost the
> same price.

Agreed for a DP model.   There's been extensive complaints (ala
'xMac') for a single processor configuration which is 'competitive' to
an i7 configuration.

> The lackluster upgrade has more to do with there being
> little movement at the high-end of the PC market these days -- in terms
> of processors, for instance, Apple's pretty much just offering what
> Intel's got virtually as soon as Intel actually has it in enough
> quantity.

Except they were figuratively "Last to Market" with the six-cores.

> Faster FireWire makes little sense with Light Peak coming next year.

Except that FW1600 chips have been available since 2008...for all of
$3.50/unit price (in Qty).

> USB 3 would have been nice, but it's a lot easier to wait for Intel to
> integrate it.

True, but the expectations of the Top-Of-The-Line is that you'll get
new features before they become mainstream.

> SATA-II vs. SATA-III makes nearly no difference as an
> internal interface, since there's a separate channel for each drive, and
> how many individual drives can exceed SATA-II's bandwidth?

Today, or within the expected lifespan of the product?   That's the
future-proofing angle.

Secondly, of a spinning disk, or of a SSD?

The limit for SATA-II is 300 MB/s, and SSDs are already at 355 MB/s
(read) on SATA-III and 400 MB/s on FibreChannel...and these are for
single units, not RAID.

http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-fastest.html

> The issue with pro software tools -- specifically with Final Cut,
> because Logic Pro got a big overhaul and 64-bit support in January and
> Aperture had a major update in February -- is almost certainly
> lifecycle-related. The Final Cut 7 release was likely a bit lackluster
> precisely _because_ most of the resources are dedicated to a multi-year
> project to move the suite to 64-bit Cocoa and probably retool it for
> Core Image, OpenCL and GCD. Wait and see if I'm not right.

Perhaps & hopefully.


-hh

[snips]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:12:57 +0100, White Spirit wrote:

> On 30/07/2010 03:43, The Hooded Plumber wrote:
> 
>> You guys just don't like it when quality Windows applications are
>> compared to some of the junk you Linux users have.
> 
> The other comments were moot but I think this one bears commenting on.
> 
> Personally, none of the Linux software I use is junk.  It's stable, does
> the job perfectly and is feature-rich.  I don't find any fault with the
> GUIs.  

One does have to wonder.  With all the available options for just about 
any conceivable task under Linux, why is it that these goobers insist 
upon only using the ones they perceive to be the worst?

Take email, as an example.  If you don't like Thunderbird, try 
Evolution.  Or kmail.  Or mutt.  Or any of something like a dozen or more 
other options.

If all they're using is the "junk", they have nobody to blame but 
themselves.  The stuff I use is, for _my_ needs, very well-suited; it 
works the way I like, its stable, reliable, functional, flexible and 
easy. Maybe, in their eyes, that makes it "junk".  If so, I'd suggest the 
problem lies in their perceptions, having little to do with reality.

On 02/08/2010 01:59, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:

> One does have to wonder.  With all the available options for just about
> any conceivable task under Linux, why is it that these goobers insist
> upon only using the ones they perceive to be the worst?

I have reached the conclusion that they don't know any better.  They 
don't like choice.  I think it's fair to say that they need to be told 
which programmes to use.  If it involves any thought on their part then 
it's dismissed as being too complicated.  If Uncle Bill or a large 
software house says that programme X is the de facto standard then and 
only then will they take the time to learn it, and rather than 
dismissing the programme as being too complicated they will instead form 
a superiority complex and refer to themselves as 'power users'.

> Take email, as an example.  If you don't like Thunderbird, try
> Evolution.  Or kmail.  Or mutt.  Or any of something like a dozen or more
> other options.

Too much choice bewilders them.  Their conditioned minds are confused, 
as though they are in a hall of mirrors.

> If all they're using is the "junk", they have nobody to blame but
> themselves.  The stuff I use is, for _my_ needs, very well-suited; it
> works the way I like, its stable, reliable, functional, flexible and
> easy. Maybe, in their eyes, that makes it "junk".  If so, I'd suggest the
> problem lies in their perceptions, having little to do with reality.

I installed KDEnlive for my girlfriend the other day as she needed to do 
some video editing.  She asked if there was anything as simple and easy 
to use as some software she had seen running on a Mac.  KDEnlive seemed 
to have all the right features and KDE applications tend to be very user 
friendly so it was my first choice.  It took her very little time to 
learn to use it and it did the job perfectly.

Verily I say unto thee, that Kelsey Bjarnason spake thusly:

(P.S.: article formatted upside down, for Windows users' benefit).

The problem is that GNU/Linux doesn't really have an E-mail client that
promotes Microsoft's "standard" for top-posting, like that "Outlook"
garbage. If we had one of those, I'm sure the Windows Dilberts would be
drooling all over it.

> Take email, as an example.  If you don't like Thunderbird, try 
> Evolution.  Or kmail.  Or mutt.  Or any of something like a dozen or
> more other options.

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:18:04 +0100, Homer wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Kelsey Bjarnason spake thusly:
> 
> (P.S.: article formatted upside down, for Windows users' benefit).
> 
> The problem is that GNU/Linux doesn't really have an E-mail client that
> promotes Microsoft's "standard" for top-posting, like that "Outlook"
> garbage. If we had one of those, I'm sure the Windows Dilberts would be
> drooling all over it.
> 
>> Take email, as an example.  If you don't like Thunderbird, try
>> Evolution.  Or kmail.  Or mutt.  Or any of something like a dozen or
>> more other options.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

(Snort)

[snips]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:30:21 +0100, bbgruff wrote:

> It must be really difficult trying to deal with all those virtual
> personalities at the same time.  Why don't you just choose *one* and
> then stick to it?

DuFuS and Hardon have exactly two things in their favour: they're 
geographically distant, and they (seem to) stick to the same idents, 
meaning once plonked, always plonked.

Homer wrote:

> Windows Dilberts

LOL

-- 
Regards,
[tv]
Owner/proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

....Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard?

High Plains Thumper wrote:

>chrisv wrote:
>> bbgruff wrote:
>> 
>>> So what's going on, flatfish? Did you invent this plumber nym so
>>> that you could pretend to be some young kid foul-mouthing in the
>>> group, and them got caught out or something? - or had you just
>>> forgotten about all the obscenities and carried on using the nym by
>>> mistake?
>> 
>> Did the mentally-ill POS respond?
>
>For the time being, I have my filters fully enabled.  Not seeing the
>filth from these slimes is refreshing.  Good to see the air is clean for
>a change.  :-)

I'll have to assume that the mentally-ill troll did not respond.

Amazingly, that filthy asshole sometimes posts opinions that are
supposed to be respected!

Yeah, right!

chrisv wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> chrisv wrote:
>>> bbgruff wrote:
>>> 
>>>> So what's going on, flatfish? Did you invent this plumber nym
>>>> so that you could pretend to be some young kid foul-mouthing in
>>>> the group, and them got caught out or something? - or had you
>>>> just forgotten about all the obscenities and carried on using
>>>> the nym by mistake?
>>> 
>>> Did the mentally-ill POS respond?
>> 
>> For the time being, I have my filters fully enabled.  Not seeing
>> the filth from these slimes is refreshing.  Good to see the air is
>> clean for a change.  :-)
> 
> I'll have to assume that the mentally-ill troll did not respond. 
> Amazingly, that filthy asshole sometimes posts opinions that are 
> supposed to be respected! Yeah, right!

Oh, at this point I could care less if the idiot Wintrolls respond.  I
was having a little fun with Snit through Tatoo Vampire's posts.  TV
really got his goat good, from what I gathered.  Interesting what bleeds
through.

But seriously, and it has been a hard lesson.  What these Wintrolls
spout is pure nonsense as cowardly Internet bullies that they are.  It
is amazing what people will say in an Internet forum, that they would
never state in public or as a matter of fact to a person privately
face-to-face.

That goes for Ezekiel, Gary Stewart AKA Flatfish and oodles of nyms,
DFS, Hadron, Duane Arnold "The Bee" and nyms, Michael Glasser and nyms
(he's the worst of the lot), the clogtroll, Tim Smith, etc.

In that is a demonstration of their cowardice.  Anything not of truth is
cowardice.

They remain kill filed.  :-)

(Bomp, bomp, bomp) another one bites the dust! - Queen.

-- 
HPT