Windows or OSX advocate:

I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.

Here are my benchmarks.
Here are some videos showing the differences.
Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?

Linux advocate:

Your benchmarks are faked.
Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
I can do all of that as well with Linux.
(Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).

Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.

On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
> Windows or OSX advocate:
> 
> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
> 
> Here are my benchmarks.
> Here are some videos showing the differences.
> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?
> 
> Linux advocate:
> 
> Your benchmarks are faked.
> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
> 
> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
> 
> 

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

-- 
 -v

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

On 5/7/15, 3:39 PM, in article
f4457031-1a16-4213-a4dc-32188b0c2ac5@googlegroups.com, "Germs"
<jeremywalmartprescottaz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Windows or OSX advocate:
> 
> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just
> does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
> 
> Here are my benchmarks.
> Here are some videos showing the differences.
> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to
> Windows or OSX.
> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the
> Windows or OSX software can?
> 
> Linux advocate:
> 
> Your benchmarks are faked.
> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as
> well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux
> application, the Linux advocate runs away).
> 
> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
> 
> 
Nailed it. Yeah, I would love to see counter examples from the "advocates".
My .sig is a great example of my doing as you note others do (though I am
not an OS X or Windows advocate, I am an advocate for informed computing -
using the best tool for the job).


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>
>> <wailings of yet another Snit sock>
>
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

Heh, no moderator, so this statement is moot:

   Submissions offered by those who may deemed to be hostile to Linux,
   including but not limited to anti-Linux propagandists, will not be
   accepted.

And the OP is one of these:

   2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists

   Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
   insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
   containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
   Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
   Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.

I.e. an asshole.

-- 
    if (argc > 1 && strcmp(argv[1], "-advice") == 0) {
	printf("Don't Panic!\n");
	exit(42);
    }
(Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS)

On 5/7/15, 5:49 PM, in article mih140$c84$3@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
<OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>> 
>>> <wailings of yet another Snit sock>
>> 
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
> 
> Heh, no moderator, so this statement is moot:
> 
>    Submissions offered by those who may deemed to be hostile to Linux,
>    including but not limited to anti-Linux propagandists, will not be
>    accepted.
> 
> And the OP is one of these:
> 
>    2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
> 
>    Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>    insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
>    containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>    Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>    Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.

Actually, your accusation of me using a sock counts as that... the OP was
quite accurate.

> I.e. an asshole.

Your baseless accusations can be shown to describe you as such, sure.

-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/7/15, 8:22 PM, in article 1mj1grcz29wgs$.g51uhaxiz2ul$.dlg@40tude.net,
"Tomas" <tgif9fri@numo.net> wrote:

....
>>> He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once
>>> in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.
>>> 
>>> Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I
>>> think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do
>>> the things consumers do.
>>> 
>>> The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice
>>> for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go
>>> with Linux.
>> 
>> The Linux kernel is excellent from everything I know... and it allows the
>> use of excellent file systems. It is ahead in those areas. But the consumer
>> UI side is a disaster, as is the application choice. It makes it a
>> non-starter for most non-fanatics who are looking for a desktop solution
>> that does even the *basics* well.
> 
> Consumers don't buy a certain system because of the kernel.

Correct: though the kernel can affect speed and stability. Imagine if Apple
tried to make OS X run on the old Mac kernel. :)

> They go where the applications are.

Largely true - though also system services. But even if you have those down
pat, without the apps the system is not going to do well.

> It's like saying "hey the tires are great on that car over there but
> it has no bluetooth, airbags or radio".
> Unless the person was interested in racing on a track, why pick that
> car?
> That's Linux.
> It's all dressed up with no place to go.

It has a strong engine but the controls are like a cockpit designed by
committee. 

> And if you don't believe that, walk up to someone in Best Buy or Frys
> and tell them how great the Linux kernel is and see what kind of
> reaction you get.

Sure: most could not care less. No reason fro them to.

> Chances are it will be along the lines of "does Linux run GTA,
> MSOFFice, Adobe etc".
> It's a fact.

No argument here.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: 
>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote: 
> >> <wailings of yet another Snit sock> 
> > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ 
>
> Heh, no moderator, so this statement is moot: 

When was there ever one?  That's a free clue to the credibility of
that FAQ's authors.

> And the OP is one of these: 
>    2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists 
> 
> Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative, 
>   insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA 
>   containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of 
>   Linux by the general computing public. For more information see 
>   Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls. 

Again, do be cautious of the propaganda and bias within the authors.
For example, author Mark Bilk was a 9-11 Conspiracy Theorist of the
"Hidden tons of thermite" ilk...even a basic scientific review revealed his 
claims to be fruitcake-class, which he then tried to hide by crafting ever 
more elaborate "explanations".  And if memory serves, some of the others
were utterly convinced that Microsoft was actively employing people to 
post in COLA, and made pointed accusations, despite having utterly no 
evidence or even a credible basis.

As such, if there was any influence on Linux adoption by COLA, it was
most likely damage caused by these fanboy lunatics wother their ludicrous claims.

-hh

On Fri, 08 May 2015 07:14:18 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
>>And the OP is one of these:
>>
>>   2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>>
>>   Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>>   insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
>>   containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>>   Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>>   Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
>>
>>I.e. an asshole.
> 
> A mentally-ill asshole.
> 
> Free Linux is a great choice for a lot of people,

If it's such a great choice why are there so few using it?
Why is it very common for someone to try Linux and then return to
Windows or OSX?

The truth is Linux is decent but the reality is the only real
advantages to the average user is the cost and when the applications
suck compared to Windows or OSX cost becomes a moot point.

> and the corporate
> loyalists just *hate* that it exists as a viable alternative, giving
> the masses so much freedom and control of their destiny.

What makes you think we are corporate loyalists?
And why would anyone want freedom?
I welcome competition from Linux but the reality is Linux can't
compete as a desktop system. Given the choice between Linux and
Windows or OSX, Linux loses 99 percent of the time.

> Sure, most people (on the desktop) are using one of the big two
> proprietary operating systems.  But, if things get too bad, GNU/Linux
> is there, and ready.

Linux is there alright.
Is it ready?
Doubtful.

On Thu, 07 May 2015 19:25:50 -0700, vallor wrote:

> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>> Windows or OSX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>
>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>
>>>  From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>
>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>>> stories to cause churn.
>> 
>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
>> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
>> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
>> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
>> 
>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>
>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>> 
>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>> 
>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>> 
> 
> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
> other Linux advocates enough credit.
> 
> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
> 
> Incidentally:
> 
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
> 
> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"

And here is where you let your geekiness get the best of you.

Compare.

Linux has snapshots:

1.Assuming you choose the corect file system. How is the user
supposed to know this?
2. Assuming you choose the correct distribution. Again, how is the
user supposed to know this?
3. Assuming the user can set it up properly.

Compare to Windows.

1. Set up from the install.
2. User selects "recovery"... duhh... real easy.

How can you even compare the two other than some stupid semantic
angle which is something Peter excels at.

On 5/8/2015 9:12 AM, Slimer wrote:
> On 2015-05-07 10:25 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux
>>>>>> and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the
>>>>>> same level as Windows or OSX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are my benchmarks. Here are some videos showing the
>>>>>> differences. Here are some screen shots showing
>>>>>> inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX. Can
>>>>>> someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as
>>>>>> well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked. Your screenshots are
>>>>>> photo-shopped. Why would anyone need to perform xyorz? I
>>>>>> can do all of that as well with Linux. (Usually followed by
>>>>>> a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well
>>>>>> however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>>
>>>> From a geek perspective I would agree but average users
>>>> outnumber geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>>
>>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and
>>>> truthful Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I
>>>> suspect he invents stories to cause churn.
>>>
>>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you
>>> point out that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a
>>> liar. I've given him many chances to show me that he isn't a
>>> complete buffoon and he failed every time so I've since binned
>>> him. He's not worth my time.
>>>
>>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur
>>>> and blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>>
>>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group
>>>> just because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>>
>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree
>>> with him, at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying
>>> and making logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous
>>> comments with no basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He
>>> believes that Linux is better for _good_ reasons and defends his
>>> position. All of us have to up our game to debate with him and
>>> that's a good thing.
>>>
>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>
>>
>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really
>> give other Linux advocates enough credit.
>>
>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he
>> pointed out that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the
>> snapshots in lvm).
>
> Except that none of us said that Linux didn't have snapshots. What we
>  said is that Windows configures them by default since 2000 whereas
> Linux requires you to have the knowledge about them and set it up
> yourself. It also has an incredibly cumbersome way of restoring in
> comparison to what Windows has used since they first implemented it.


* I'd be surprised if anyone but system administrators ever uses LVM
   anyway.  It's nearly useless for a desktop user.

* LVM snapshots are almost always managed via command line and scripts - 
which usually scares users away.  There's a graphical utility called 
system-config-lvm that comes with RedHat and CentoS, but you rarely see 
it mentioned when searching about LVM snapshots.

* the btrfs filesystem is still under development and rarely used or
   recommended.

So Linux system snapshots continue to lag way beyond Windows Restore 
Points in user availability and ease of use.



>> Incidentally:
>>
>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
>>
>> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"
>
> Let's see if they actually release it. I still remember how WinFS was
>  supposed to come with Vista.


ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS partition 
yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost exactly the same 
speed as NTFS.

Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.

On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
> Windows or OSX advocate:
>
> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
>
> Here are my benchmarks.
> Here are some videos showing the differences.
> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>
> Linux advocate:
>
> Your benchmarks are faked.
> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>
> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.

There's vallor and that's about it.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>
>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
>>
>> Here are my benchmarks.
>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>
>> Linux advocate:
>>
>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>
>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>
>>
>
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/


Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still posts here.


9 Credits

    This document was made possible by the efforts of the following
    individuals:

    +-------------------------------------------------------------+
    |                         Maintainer                          |
    | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com                       |
    |-------------------------------------------------------------|
    |                   Team Associate Members                    |
    | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM                |
    |-------------------------------------------------------------|
    |                        Contributers                         |
    | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain               |
    | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com               |
    | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com                |
    | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk                       |
    | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org                         |
    | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com                  |
    | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com                    |
    | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk   |
    | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org |
    | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net                      |
    | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch                        |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------+



I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name once 
and called herself Ed Rosten.

Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>> 
>
> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
> other Linux advocates enough credit.

Do you *really* care about the opinions of these perennial fsckwits?

They're simply manipulating you, loosening up the line a bit before
they jerk the hook into your mouth.... trolling.

> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
>
> Incidentally:
>
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
>
> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"
>
> -- 
> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little
> of robbing; and from robbing he next comes to drinking and Sabbath-breaking,
> and from that to incivility and procrastination.
> 		-- Thomas De Quincey (1785 - 1859)

<chuckle>  The quote leaves out banking and lending.

-- 
He knows not how to know who knows not also how to unknow.
		-- Sir Richard Burton

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>And the OP is one of these:
>
>   2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>
>   Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>   insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
>   containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>   Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>   Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
>
>I.e. an asshole.

A mentally-ill asshole.

Free Linux is a great choice for a lot of people, and the corporate
loyalists just *hate* that it exists as a viable alternative, giving
the masses so much freedom and control of their destiny.

Sure, most people (on the desktop) are using one of the big two
proprietary operating systems.  But, if things get too bad, GNU/Linux
is there, and ready.

-- 
"More copy cat programs stealing the hard work from someone else."  -
"True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:

> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>
>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
>>
>> Here are my benchmarks.
>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>
>> Linux advocate:
>>
>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>
>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
> 
> There's vallor and that's about it.

From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
geeks and technical people by a large number.

Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
stories to cause churn.

Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.

It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
because they pretend to be Linux advocates.  

On 5/7/15, 6:11 PM, in article 12nqq4po5psff.18ha5vj0t3nvv$.dlg@40tude.net,
"Tomas" <tgif9fri@numo.net> wrote:

>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as
>>> well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux
>>> application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>> 
>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>> 
>> There's vallor and that's about it.
> 
> From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
> geeks and technical people by a large number.
> 
> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
> stories to cause churn.

Still, he showed a level of honesty and earned some respect when he admitted
to being wrong about the Open Recent lists on OS X when he was shown a
video. No denying the benefit or insisting the video was forged... a low
bar, perhaps, but for a COLA "advocate" that makes him a saint.

> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
> 
> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.



-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/7/15, 6:33 PM, in article mih3nt$coa$1@dont-email.me, "DFS"
<nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>> 
>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just
>>> does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
>>> 
>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to
>>> Windows or OSX.
>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the
>>> Windows or OSX software can?
>>> 
>>> Linux advocate:
>>> 
>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as
>>> well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux
>>> application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>> 
>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
> 
> 
> Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still posts here.
> 
> 
> 9 Credits
> 
>     This document was made possible by the efforts of the following
>     individuals:
> 
>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>     |                         Maintainer                          |
>     | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com                       |
>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>     |                   Team Associate Members                    |
>     | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM                |
>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>     |                        Contributers                         |
>     | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain               |
>     | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com               |
>     | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com                |
>     | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk                       |
>     | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org                         |
>     | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com                  |
>     | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com                    |
>     | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk   |
>     | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org |
>     | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net                      |
>     | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch                        |
>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
> 
> 
> 
> I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name once
> and called herself Ed Rosten.

Are you sure it was not me? After all: everyone is Snit. Except for me.

It is the unofficial motto of COLA. :)

> Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.

Bilk pushed ideas that were... interesting, to say the least. :)



-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>
>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>
>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
>>>
>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>
>>> Linux advocate:
>>>
>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>
>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>
>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>
>  From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>
> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
> stories to cause churn.

Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out 
that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given 
him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he 
failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.

> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>
> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.

The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him, 
at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making 
logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no 
basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better 
for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our 
game to debate with him and that's a good thing.

It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-07 9:33 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>
>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux
>>> just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows
>>> or OSX.
>>>
>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>
>>> Linux advocate:
>>>
>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>
>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>
>
> Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still posts here.
>
>
> 9 Credits
>
>     This document was made possible by the efforts of the following
>     individuals:
>
>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>     |                         Maintainer                          |
>     | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com                       |
>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>     |                   Team Associate Members                    |
>     | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM                |
>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>     |                        Contributers                         |
>     | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain               |
>     | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com               |
>     | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com                |
>     | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk                       |
>     | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org                         |
>     | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com                  |
>     | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com                    |
>     | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk   |
>     | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org |
>     | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net                      |
>     | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch                        |
>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
> I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name once
> and called herself Ed Rosten.
>
> Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.

As a true Linux advocate, I expected no less.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>
>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>> Windows or OSX.
>>>>
>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>
>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>
>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>
>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>
>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>
>>  From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>
>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>> stories to cause churn.
> 
> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
> 
>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>
>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
> 
> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
> 
> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
> 

I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
other Linux advocates enough credit.

For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).

Incidentally:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA

"Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"

-- 
 -v

If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little
of robbing; and from robbing he next comes to drinking and Sabbath-breaking,
and from that to incivility and procrastination.
		-- Thomas De Quincey (1785 - 1859)

"Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>

>
> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him, at 
> least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making logical, 
> educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no basis 
> whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better for 
> _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our game to 
> debate with him and that's a good thing.
>
> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>

He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once 
in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.

Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I 
think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do 
the things consumers do.

The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice 
for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go 
with Linux.

On 5/7/15, 7:25 PM, in article
554c1eaf$0$19613$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com, "vallor"
<vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:

>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>> 
>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>> 
> 
> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
> other Linux advocates enough credit.
> 
> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).

I openly admit I have no clue about snapshots on Linux... though I have not
seen anything with an easy UI I have not looked much. But I think anyone who
reads Peter's comments knows he is wrong far, far more often than he is
right... making accusations of me "doctoring" logs of a program even when he
had full access to the source code, claiming to have screencasting programs
comparable to the one I speak of but for some reason he cannot name them
(spoiler: he is out and out lying and no such program exists), his claims
about OS X not being able to use OfficeJet scanners without downloading "3
different software packages", his lies about DVD playback in Debian, his
claims of Qt bugs being handled by the KDE team, his ignorance of how
shortcuts and symbolic links are similar, and even his confusion as to what
"Quit" and "Exit" do on Linux programs.

And a lot more.

Add to that his constant name calling and insults. He truly is more harm to
Linux advocacy than benefit.

-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
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* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/7/15, 7:28 PM, in article mih6tg$rvf$1@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
<zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:

> 
> "Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>> 
> 
>> 
>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him, at
>> least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making logical,
>> educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no basis
>> whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better for
>> _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our game to
>> debate with him and that's a good thing.
>> 
>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>> 
> 
> He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once
> in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.
> 
> Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I
> think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do
> the things consumers do.
> 
> The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice
> for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go
> with Linux.

The Linux kernel is excellent from everything I know... and it allows the
use of excellent file systems. It is ahead in those areas. But the consumer
UI side is a disaster, as is the application choice. It makes it a
non-starter for most non-fanatics who are looking for a desktop solution
that does even the *basics* well.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/7/15, 7:55 PM, in article 1jkju2m4xkr6h.4yrololdd8w7.dlg@40tude.net,
"Tomas" <tgif9fri@numo.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 07 May 2015 19:25:50 -0700, vallor wrote:
> 
>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>>> Windows or OSX.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>> 
>>>>  From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>>>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>> 
>>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>>>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>>>> stories to cause churn.
>>> 
>>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
>>> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
>>> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
>>> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
>>> 
>>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>>>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>> 
>>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>>>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>> 
>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>> 
>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>> 
>> 
>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
>> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>> 
>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
>> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
>> 
>> Incidentally:
>> 
>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
>> 
>> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"
> 
> And here is where you let your geekiness get the best of you.
> 
> Compare.
> 
> Linux has snapshots:
> 
> 1.Assuming you choose the corect file system. How is the user
> supposed to know this?
> 2. Assuming you choose the correct distribution. Again, how is the
> user supposed to know this?
> 3. Assuming the user can set it up properly.
> 
> Compare to Windows.
> 
> 1. Set up from the install.
> 2. User selects "recovery"... duhh... real easy.
> 
> How can you even compare the two other than some stupid semantic
> angle which is something Peter excels at.

That is my understanding as well... but if someone could show me, say,
snapshots on stock Ubuntu or Mint or the like I would love to see it.

Peter has been wrong so often I do not trust a word he says.

-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/7/15, 7:18 PM, in article mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me, "Slimer"
<slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:

....
>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>> 
>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>> 
>>  From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>> 
>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>> stories to cause churn.
> 
> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.

But he *did* admit he was wrong when he was shown evidence on this:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/exit-then-rename>.

I commend him greatly for that... and you can see in the video his claim
where he was very insistent OS X would not do what it does.

>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>> 
>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
> 
> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
> 
> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.

Good point. Wish other "advocates" could rise to his level.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On Thu, 07 May 2015 20:18:27 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 5/7/15, 7:28 PM, in article mih6tg$rvf$1@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
> <zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> "Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him, at
>>> least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making logical,
>>> educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no basis
>>> whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better for
>>> _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our game to
>>> debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>> 
>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>> 
>> 
>> He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once
>> in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.
>> 
>> Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I
>> think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do
>> the things consumers do.
>> 
>> The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice
>> for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go
>> with Linux.
> 
> The Linux kernel is excellent from everything I know... and it allows the
> use of excellent file systems. It is ahead in those areas. But the consumer
> UI side is a disaster, as is the application choice. It makes it a
> non-starter for most non-fanatics who are looking for a desktop solution
> that does even the *basics* well.

Consumers don't buy a certain system because of the kernel.
They go where the applications are.
It's like saying "hey the tires are great on that car over there but
it has no bluetooth, airbags or radio".
Unless the person was interested in racing on a track, why pick that
car?
That's Linux.
It's all dressed up with no place to go.

And if you don't believe that, walk up to someone in Best Buy or Frys
and tell them how great the Linux kernel is and see what kind of
reaction you get.
Chances are it will be along the lines of "does Linux run GTA,
MSOFFice, Adobe etc".
It's a fact.

On Thu, 07 May 2015 20:19:33 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 5/7/15, 7:55 PM, in article 1jkju2m4xkr6h.4yrololdd8w7.dlg@40tude.net,
> "Tomas" <tgif9fri@numo.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 19:25:50 -0700, vallor wrote:
>> 
>>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>>>> Windows or OSX.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>>>>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>>>>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>>>>> stories to cause churn.
>>>> 
>>>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
>>>> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
>>>> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
>>>> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
>>>> 
>>>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>>>>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>>>>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>>> 
>>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>>>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>>>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>>>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>>>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>>>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>>> 
>>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
>>> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>>> 
>>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
>>> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
>>> 
>>> Incidentally:
>>> 
>>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
>>> 
>>> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"
>> 
>> And here is where you let your geekiness get the best of you.
>> 
>> Compare.
>> 
>> Linux has snapshots:
>> 
>> 1.Assuming you choose the corect file system. How is the user
>> supposed to know this?
>> 2. Assuming you choose the correct distribution. Again, how is the
>> user supposed to know this?
>> 3. Assuming the user can set it up properly.
>> 
>> Compare to Windows.
>> 
>> 1. Set up from the install.
>> 2. User selects "recovery"... duhh... real easy.
>> 
>> How can you even compare the two other than some stupid semantic
>> angle which is something Peter excels at.
> 
> That is my understanding as well... but if someone could show me, say,
> snapshots on stock Ubuntu or Mint or the like I would love to see it.

They can't and they know that.
 
> Peter has been wrong so often I do not trust a word he says.

He's an idiot.
He claims to have written or contributed to the BIOS somehow. I find
that claim highly suspect seeing as he doesn't seem to have a clue
about basic computing in general.
"A" Peter Kohlmann may have contributed to the IBM PC BIOS, but it's
not the same Peter Kohlmann posting in COLA.
No way.
A village idiot like him?
Think about that.

On 5/7/2015 10:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
> On 2015-05-07 9:33 PM, DFS wrote:
>> On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>
>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux
>>>> just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows
>>>> or OSX.
>>>>
>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>
>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>
>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>
>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>>
>>
>> Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still posts here.
>>
>>
>> 9 Credits
>>
>>     This document was made possible by the efforts of the following
>>     individuals:
>>
>>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>     |                         Maintainer                          |
>>     | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com                       |
>>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>     |                   Team Associate Members                    |
>>     | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM                |
>>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>     |                        Contributers                         |
>>     | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain               |
>>     | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com               |
>>     | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com                |
>>     | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk                       |
>>     | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org                         |
>>     | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com                  |
>>     | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com                    |
>>     | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk   |
>>     | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org |
>>     | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net                      |
>>     | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch                        |
>>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>
>>
>>
>> I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name once
>> and called herself Ed Rosten.
>>
>> Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.
>
> As a true Linux advocate, I expected no less.


heh!

A true Linux advocate would never go on a rampage for weeks like you 
did, labeling it "GNU/festering pile of shit".

Sorry, fella, but you'll have to use that one outside of cola.

> troll wrote:
>>
>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>> 
>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows or OSX.
>> 
>> Here are my benchmarks.
>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX.
>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>> 
>> Linux advocate:
>> 
>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>> 
>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.

Get a fscking "Windows or OSX advocate" in here who isn't a lying POS,
and people will be more inclined to take-seriously what they have to
say!

Sheesh.  Some ridiculous fscking *liar* is willing to twist an
advocate's words into things like "you think that a system should not
behave as a system", and claim that advocates who are against the
"choice" of restricted choice are "against choice", yet expects to be
given the time of day?

How about one of you GD assholes at least admit something as obvious
as how great GNU-style licenses are, and THEN we'll talk?

-- 
'Choice is great - which is why I am so heavily against folks such as
TomB who claim it is "opposed to what GNU/Linux is all about"'  -
some thing, lying shamelessly

On Fri, 8 May 2015 08:34:37 -0400, Tomas wrote:

> On Fri, 08 May 2015 07:14:18 -0500, chrisv wrote:
> 
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> 
>>>And the OP is one of these:
>>>
>>>   2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>>>
>>>   Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>>>   insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
>>>   containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>>>   Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>>>   Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
>>>
>>>I.e. an asshole.
>> 
>> A mentally-ill asshole.
>> 
>> Free Linux is a great choice for a lot of people,
> 
> If it's such a great choice why are there so few using it?
> Why is it very common for someone to try Linux and then return to
> Windows or OSX?
> 
> The truth is Linux is decent but the reality is the only real
> advantages to the average user is the cost and when the applications
> suck compared to Windows or OSX cost becomes a moot point.
> 
>> and the corporate
>> loyalists just *hate* that it exists as a viable alternative, giving
>> the masses so much freedom and control of their destiny.
> 
> What makes you think we are corporate loyalists?
> And why would anyone want freedom?

would = wouldn't.

On 2015-05-07 10:25 PM, vallor wrote:
> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>> Windows or OSX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>
>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>
>>>   From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>
>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>>> stories to cause churn.
>>
>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
>> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
>> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
>> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
>>
>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>
>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>
>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>
>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>
>
> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>
> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).

Except that none of us said that Linux didn't have snapshots. What we 
said is that Windows configures them by default since 2000 whereas Linux 
requires you to have the knowledge about them and set it up yourself. It 
also has an incredibly cumbersome way of restoring in comparison to what 
Windows has used since they first implemented it.

> Incidentally:
>
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
>
> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"

Let's see if they actually release it. I still remember how WinFS was 
supposed to come with Vista.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-07 10:28 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
> "Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>
>
>>
>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him, at
>> least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making logical,
>> educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no basis
>> whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better for
>> _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our game to
>> debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>
>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>
>
> He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once
> in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.
>
> Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I
> think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do
> the things consumers do.

I agree with you. That's because Windows has been ready for prime time 
for so long that they've been able to concentrate all of their efforts 
on the smaller details and provide a greater experience. Linux has only 
recently become ready for prime time. While the gap is certainly large 
at the moment between the two systems, I think that it will become a lot 
smaller in time if the right amount of effort is put into developing 
GNOME and its default bundle of software. LibreOffice, despite its 
kinks, is already good enough for most people.

> The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice
> for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go
> with Linux.

The problem that I will always have with Windows is that upgrading the 
operating system usually means that I have to upgrade my hardware as 
well. My scanner worked perfectly in XP and then made a driver for 
Vista, but I was on my own for 7 and now 8. Both systems see the 
hardware, but don't offer an appropriate driver for it. Linux doesn't 
give me this issue. Of course, the scanner didn't work at all under 
Linux with SimpleScan which just happens to be the worst piece of 
software that I have ever seen but it worked well with XSane.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-07 11:16 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 5/7/15, 7:25 PM, in article
> 554c1eaf$0$19613$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com, "vallor"
> <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>
>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>>
>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>
>>
>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
>> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>>
>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
>> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
>
> I openly admit I have no clue about snapshots on Linux... though I have not
> seen anything with an easy UI I have not looked much. But I think anyone who
> reads Peter's comments knows he is wrong far, far more often than he is
> right... making accusations of me "doctoring" logs of a program even when he
> had full access to the source code, claiming to have screencasting programs
> comparable to the one I speak of but for some reason he cannot name them
> (spoiler: he is out and out lying and no such program exists), his claims
> about OS X not being able to use OfficeJet scanners without downloading "3
> different software packages", his lies about DVD playback in Debian, his
> claims of Qt bugs being handled by the KDE team, his ignorance of how
> shortcuts and symbolic links are similar, and even his confusion as to what
> "Quit" and "Exit" do on Linux programs.
>
> And a lot more.
>
> Add to that his constant name calling and insults. He truly is more harm to
> Linux advocacy than benefit.

100% agreed. It's people like K�hlmann who will discourage people from 
even trying Linux. I doubt _anyone_ wants to be associated with that guy 
in any way.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-07 11:18 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 5/7/15, 7:28 PM, in article mih6tg$rvf$1@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
> <zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him, at
>>> least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making logical,
>>> educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no basis
>>> whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better for
>>> _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our game to
>>> debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>>
>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>
>>
>> He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once
>> in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.
>>
>> Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I
>> think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do
>> the things consumers do.
>>
>> The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice
>> for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go
>> with Linux.
>
> The Linux kernel is excellent from everything I know... and it allows the
> use of excellent file systems. It is ahead in those areas. But the consumer
> UI side is a disaster, as is the application choice. It makes it a
> non-starter for most non-fanatics who are looking for a desktop solution
> that does even the *basics* well.

GNOME is a lot better than KDE IMO, especially in the more recent 
versions. I usually favour it whenever I install Linux. It seems lighter 
as well. I dunno if you'd like to try it out and find its problems but I 
don't think that they are as numerous as KDE.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-07 11:21 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 5/7/15, 7:18 PM, in article mih6b4$ius$1@dont-email.me, "Slimer"
> <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:
>
> ...
>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>
>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>
>>>   From a geek perspective I would agree but average users outnumber
>>> geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>
>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and truthful
>>> Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I suspect he invents
>>> stories to cause churn.
>>
>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
>> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
>> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
>> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
>
> But he *did* admit he was wrong when he was shown evidence on this:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/exit-then-rename>.
>
> I commend him greatly for that... and you can see in the video his claim
> where he was very insistent OS X would not do what it does.

I'm glad that he admitted to being wrong, but I simply can't stand being 
called a liar when in real-life, people get upset at the fact that I'm 
much too honest.

>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>
>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>
>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>
>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>
> Good point. Wish other "advocates" could rise to his level.

It's not going to happen as long as you have cocksuckers like William 
Poaster and Chris Ahlstrom enforcing every stupid statement people like 
Peter K�hlmann makes.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-08 12:33 AM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/7/2015 10:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-07 9:33 PM, DFS wrote:
>>> On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and Linux
>>>>> just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as Windows
>>>>> or OSX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are my benchmarks.
>>>>> Here are some videos showing the differences.
>>>>> Here are some screen shots showing inconsistencies with Linux
>>>>> compared to Windows or OSX.
>>>>> Can someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as well as
>>>>> the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked.
>>>>> Your screenshots are photo-shopped.
>>>>> Why would anyone need to perform xyorz?
>>>>> I can do all of that as well with Linux.
>>>>> (Usually followed by a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do
>>>>> it as well however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>>>
>>>
>>> Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still posts here.
>>>
>>>
>>> 9 Credits
>>>
>>>     This document was made possible by the efforts of the following
>>>     individuals:
>>>
>>>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>     |                         Maintainer                          |
>>>     | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com                       |
>>>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>>     |                   Team Associate Members                    |
>>>     | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM                |
>>>     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>>     |                        Contributers                         |
>>>     | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain               |
>>>     | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com               |
>>>     | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com                |
>>>     | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk                       |
>>>     | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org                         |
>>>     | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com                  |
>>>     | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com                    |
>>>     | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk   |
>>>     | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org |
>>>     | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net                      |
>>>     | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch                        |
>>>     +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name once
>>> and called herself Ed Rosten.
>>>
>>> Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.
>>
>> As a true Linux advocate, I expected no less.
>
>
> heh!
>
> A true Linux advocate would never go on a rampage for weeks like you
> did, labeling it "GNU/festering pile of shit".
>
> Sorry, fella, but you'll have to use that one outside of cola.

I stand by what I said.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>Do you *really* care about the opinions of these perennial fsckwits?
>
>They're simply manipulating you, loosening up the line a bit before
>they jerk the hook into your mouth.... trolling.

The snotty bastards' goal is to attack advocates of FOSS - claim that
we are unreasonable, hypocritical, ridiculous, ignorant, unfair,
whatever.  Most of use are none of the above, obviously.

-- 
"Has the definition of open/free become 'you can customize/modify the
open and free product however you want as long as one company approves
of your changes'?"   -  trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel", claiming that
there's something "not open/free" about Google controlling Android,
Canonical controlling Ubuntu, RedHat controlling RedHat, etc.

On 5/8/2015 9:39 AM, Slimer wrote:
> On 2015-05-08 12:33 AM, DFS wrote:
>> On 5/7/2015 10:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:33 PM, DFS wrote:
>>>> On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux
>>>>>> and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the
>>>>>> same level as Windows or OSX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are my benchmarks. Here are some videos showing the
>>>>>> differences. Here are some screen shots showing
>>>>>> inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX. Can
>>>>>> someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as
>>>>>> well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked. Your screenshots are
>>>>>> photo-shopped. Why would anyone need to perform xyorz? I
>>>>>> can do all of that as well with Linux. (Usually followed by
>>>>>> a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well
>>>>>> however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still
>>>> posts here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9 Credits
>>>>
>>>> This document was made possible by the efforts of the
>>>> following individuals:
>>>>
>>>> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>>
>>>>
|                         Maintainer                          |
>>>> | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com
>>>> |
>>>> |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>>>
>>>>
|                   Team Associate Members                    |
>>>> | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM
>>>> |
>>>> |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>>>
>>>>
|                        Contributers                         |
>>>> | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain
>>>> | | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com
>>>> | | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com
>>>> | | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk
>>>> | | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org
>>>> | | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com
>>>> | | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com
>>>> | | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk
>>>> | | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org
>>>> | | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net
>>>> | | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch
>>>> |
>>>> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name
>>>> once and called herself Ed Rosten.
>>>>
>>>> Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.
>>>
>>> As a true Linux advocate, I expected no less.
>>
>>
>> heh!
>>
>> A true Linux advocate would never go on a rampage for weeks like
>> you did, labeling it "GNU/festering pile of shit".
>>
>> Sorry, fella, but you'll have to use that one outside of cola.
>
> I stand by what I said.


Then you're a screamin' hypocrite.  No advocate would rant about
"GNU/festering pile of shit" for weeks/months (however long you said 
that particular phrase).  In fact, a true Linux advocate would rarely 
even use Windows.

You're an "advocate": not at all committed to GNU/Linux/FOSS, but 
committed to your own comfort and convenience.

Bad Slimer!

On 2015-05-08 10:27 AM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/8/2015 9:12 AM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-07 10:25 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux
>>>>>>> and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the
>>>>>>> same level as Windows or OSX.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are my benchmarks. Here are some videos showing the
>>>>>>> differences. Here are some screen shots showing
>>>>>>> inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX. Can
>>>>>>> someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as
>>>>>>> well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked. Your screenshots are
>>>>>>> photo-shopped. Why would anyone need to perform xyorz? I
>>>>>>> can do all of that as well with Linux. (Usually followed by
>>>>>>> a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well
>>>>>>> however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's vallor and that's about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> From a geek perspective I would agree but average users
>>>>> outnumber geeks and technical people by a large number.
>>>>>
>>>>> Within his world though he is probably the only honest and
>>>>> truthful Linux advocate in cola. Melzzzzz is close but I
>>>>> suspect he invents stories to cause churn.
>>>>
>>>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you
>>>> point out that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a
>>>> liar. I've given him many chances to show me that he isn't a
>>>> complete buffoon and he failed every time so I've since binned
>>>> him. He's not worth my time.
>>>>
>>>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur
>>>>> and blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group
>>>>> just because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>>>
>>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree
>>>> with him, at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying
>>>> and making logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous
>>>> comments with no basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He
>>>> believes that Linux is better for _good_ reasons and defends his
>>>> position. All of us have to up our game to debate with him and
>>>> that's a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really
>>> give other Linux advocates enough credit.
>>>
>>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he
>>> pointed out that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the
>>> snapshots in lvm).
>>
>> Except that none of us said that Linux didn't have snapshots. What we
>>  said is that Windows configures them by default since 2000 whereas
>> Linux requires you to have the knowledge about them and set it up
>> yourself. It also has an incredibly cumbersome way of restoring in
>> comparison to what Windows has used since they first implemented it.
>
>
> * I'd be surprised if anyone but system administrators ever uses LVM
>    anyway.  It's nearly useless for a desktop user.
>
> * LVM snapshots are almost always managed via command line and scripts -
> which usually scares users away.  There's a graphical utility called
> system-config-lvm that comes with RedHat and CentoS, but you rarely see
> it mentioned when searching about LVM snapshots.
>
> * the btrfs filesystem is still under development and rarely used or
>    recommended.
>
> So Linux system snapshots continue to lag way beyond Windows Restore
> Points in user availability and ease of use.

Exactly. Many people are already touting btrfs as a revolutionary 
product and applauding its development but the reality is that it still 
isn't ready for prime time. It's getting there, but it would be insane 
to depend on it at this stage of its development.

>>> Incidentally:
>>>
>>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NDA
>>>
>>> "Microsoft's ReFS File-System: Competitor To Btrfs?"
>>
>> Let's see if they actually release it. I still remember how WinFS was
>>  supposed to come with Vista.
>
>
> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS partition
> yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost exactly the same
> speed as NTFS.
>
> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.

If speed isn't improved, one has to wonder what the point of migrating 
to it is.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 2015-05-08 10:37 AM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/8/2015 9:39 AM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-08 12:33 AM, DFS wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2015 10:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>> On 2015-05-07 9:33 PM, DFS wrote:
>>>>> On 05/07/2015 06:50 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux
>>>>>>> and Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the
>>>>>>> same level as Windows or OSX.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are my benchmarks. Here are some videos showing the
>>>>>>> differences. Here are some screen shots showing
>>>>>>> inconsistencies with Linux compared to Windows or OSX. Can
>>>>>>> someone show me Linux software that can perform xyorz as
>>>>>>> well as the Windows or OSX software can?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux advocate:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your benchmarks are faked. Your screenshots are
>>>>>>> photo-shopped. Why would anyone need to perform xyorz? I
>>>>>>> can do all of that as well with Linux. (Usually followed by
>>>>>>> a hoard of Linux advocates claiming they can do it as well
>>>>>>> however when pressed for basic details, like the name of
>>>>>>> the Linux application, the Linux advocate runs away).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good Linux advocacy is completely non-existent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a single one of the "contributors" who wrote that still
>>>>> posts here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 9 Credits
>>>>>
>>>>> This document was made possible by the efforts of the
>>>>> following individuals:
>>>>>
>>>>> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>>>
>>>>>
> |                         Maintainer                          |
>>>>> | mjcr              mjcr@mindspring.com
>>>>> |
>>>>> |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>>>>
>>>>>
> |                   Team Associate Members                    |
>>>>> | TuxTrax           ARCTIC@zerojunkTUXTRAX.COM
>>>>> |
>>>>> |-------------------------------------------------------------|
>>>>>
>>>>>
> |                        Contributers                         |
>>>>> | Charlie Ebert     kd5ob@localhost.localdomain
>>>>> | | Darren            DarrenR114@Frankenstein.com
>>>>> | | Ed Allen          eallen@allenhome.kc.rr.com
>>>>> | | Edward Rosten     u98ejr@ecs.ox.ac.uk
>>>>> | | Jerry Nash        jnash@memento.org
>>>>> | | Mark Bickel       Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com
>>>>> | | Mark S Bilk       mark@cosmicpenguin.com
>>>>> | | Mark Kent         mark@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk
>>>>> | | Mart van de Wege  mvdwege.usenet@drebbelstraat20.dyndns.org
>>>>> | | Scott Bicknell    sbicknel@prodigy.net
>>>>> | | Roy Culley        rgc@swissonline.ch
>>>>> |
>>>>> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> I notice the name Edward Rosten.  Flattie misappropriated that name
>>>>> once and called herself Ed Rosten.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mart van de Wege was a piece of shit, by the way.
>>>>
>>>> As a true Linux advocate, I expected no less.
>>>
>>>
>>> heh!
>>>
>>> A true Linux advocate would never go on a rampage for weeks like
>>> you did, labeling it "GNU/festering pile of shit".
>>>
>>> Sorry, fella, but you'll have to use that one outside of cola.
>>
>> I stand by what I said.
>
>
> Then you're a screamin' hypocrite.  No advocate would rant about
> "GNU/festering pile of shit" for weeks/months (however long you said
> that particular phrase).  In fact, a true Linux advocate would rarely
> even use Windows.
>
> You're an "advocate": not at all committed to GNU/Linux/FOSS, but
> committed to your own comfort and convenience.
>
> Bad Slimer!

Just because I'm rooting for Linux and donating to its products in the 
hope that it will improve doesn't mean that I think it's perfect. As it 
stands, I can't use it. However, the philosophy behind it and the fact 
that it is in no way corrupt makes it an inviting product. I wish that 
its ecosystem didn't have so much in-fighting and that its projects 
focused on getting things working properly rather than adding more 
features, but you apparently can't have everything.

By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux exclusively. 
For the time being, it's not ready.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>
> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux exclusively.
> For the time being, it's not ready.
>
>
Liar.

On 5/8/15 4:27 PM, DFS wrote:
>
> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS partition
> yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost exactly the same
> speed as NTFS.
>
> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.
>
>
>
That is because you are dumb. When benchmarking large file writes you 
should perfomr sync and measure that time as well,as writeback cache 
size plays major role. That is why you notice NTFS is supposedly 
faster... as writeback cache on Windows is larger....

On 5/8/2015 11:34 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On 5/8/15 4:27 PM, DFS wrote:
>>
>> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS partition
>> yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost exactly the same
>> speed as NTFS.
>>
>> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.
>>
>>
>>
> That is because you are dumb. When benchmarking large file writes you
> should perfomr sync and measure that time as well,as writeback cache
> size plays major role. That is why you notice NTFS is supposedly
> faster... as writeback cache on Windows is larger....


What do you mean 'perform sync'?

And why would I mess with such stuff, when it's not at all what a 
'typical' user would do?

On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>
>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux exclusively.
>> For the time being, it's not ready.
>>
>>
> Liar.


Linux is "ready" if you're willing to do without a lot of the best 
software known to man.

I would NEVER sacrifice the sublime MS Office for that silly LibreOffice 
crapware.  Nor would the world's businesses, who depend on MS Outlook 
and would have to rewrite untold numbers of systems based on MS Office.

MS Access is by far the most widely used desktop database in the world, 
and LibreOffice Base isn't nearly up to the job of replacing it.

Nor would I sacrifice the multitude of great Windows games for the 
mostly crap games (and small number of good games) available for Linux. 
  Most of the 711,000,000 PC gamers in the world feel the same way, I'm 
sure:

http://www.pcgamer.com/there-are-711-million-pc-gamers-in-the-world-today-says-intel/


So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the 
world's users.

On 2015-05-08 12:10 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux exclusively.
>>> For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>
>>>
>> Liar.
>
>
> Linux is "ready" if you're willing to do without a lot of the best
> software known to man.

I can. It's the stability and the fact that things break after an 
upgrade that bothers me. Anyways, I'm not surprised that the Melzzzzzzz 
imbecile called me a liar again. Killfiling him looks like it was an 
excellent decision.

> I would NEVER sacrifice the sublime MS Office for that silly LibreOffice
> crapware.  Nor would the world's businesses, who depend on MS Outlook
> and would have to rewrite untold numbers of systems based on MS Office.

I can live with LibreOffice and its writer. It doesn't have a dictionary 
and proper grammar checking but I can live without both. However, Word 
and WordPerfect both seem a lot lighter than LibreOffice Writer and I 
tend to lean toward whatever doesn't bog my system down too significantly.

> MS Access is by far the most widely used desktop database in the world,
> and LibreOffice Base isn't nearly up to the job of replacing it.

I wouldn't know since I don't use desktop databases at all.

> Nor would I sacrifice the multitude of great Windows games for the
> mostly crap games (and small number of good games) available for Linux.
>   Most of the 711,000,000 PC gamers in the world feel the same way, I'm
> sure:
>
> http://www.pcgamer.com/there-are-711-million-pc-gamers-in-the-world-today-says-intel/
>
> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the
> world's users.

Exactly. The good games ARE coming for Linux, but it is mostly 
shovelware that none of us other than vallor would be willing to pay 
for. I'm sure, for instance, that Kerbal Space Program is a great game, 
but I'm not willing to spend 10$ to find out if it is if the Windows 
version of Steam allows me to purchase an Assassin's Creed or Resident 
Evil title for the same price.

Whether imbeciles like Melzzzzz want to admit it or not, it takes a very 
powerful willingness to _sacrifice_ to use Linux as your main operating 
system.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 5/8/15, 6:34 AM, in article miidvq$l52$2@dont-email.me, "Slimer"
<slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:

> On 2015-05-07 11:16 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/7/15, 7:25 PM, in article
>> 554c1eaf$0$19613$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com, "vallor"
>> <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> 
>>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>>>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>>>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>>>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>>>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>>>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>>> 
>>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
>>> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>>> 
>>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
>>> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
>> 
>> I openly admit I have no clue about snapshots on Linux... though I have not
>> seen anything with an easy UI I have not looked much. But I think anyone who
>> reads Peter's comments knows he is wrong far, far more often than he is
>> right... making accusations of me "doctoring" logs of a program even when he
>> had full access to the source code, claiming to have screencasting programs
>> comparable to the one I speak of but for some reason he cannot name them
>> (spoiler: he is out and out lying and no such program exists), his claims
>> about OS X not being able to use OfficeJet scanners without downloading "3
>> different software packages", his lies about DVD playback in Debian, his
>> claims of Qt bugs being handled by the KDE team, his ignorance of how
>> shortcuts and symbolic links are similar, and even his confusion as to what
>> "Quit" and "Exit" do on Linux programs.
>> 
>> And a lot more.
>> 
>> Add to that his constant name calling and insults. He truly is more harm to
>> Linux advocacy than benefit.
> 
> 100% agreed. It's people like K�hlmann who will discourage people from
> even trying Linux. I doubt _anyone_ wants to be associated with that guy
> in any way.
> 
And yet Vallor, clearly someone who is one of the better advocates, defends
him.

TomB could also be a decent advocate... though he had times of insanity as
well.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On Fri, 08 May 2015 11:52:23 -0400
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 5/8/2015 11:34 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > On 5/8/15 4:27 PM, DFS wrote:
> >>
> >> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS
> >> partition yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost
> >> exactly the same speed as NTFS.
> >>
> >> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > That is because you are dumb. When benchmarking large file writes
> > you should perfomr sync and measure that time as well,as writeback
> > cache size plays major role. That is why you notice NTFS is
> > supposedly faster... as writeback cache on Windows is larger....
> 
> 
> What do you mean 'perform sync'?

Perform actual write, that is flush writeback buffer to disk. 
eg:
time (cp file1 file2 && sync)
will give you actual time on Linux.

> 
> And why would I mess with such stuff, when it's not at all what a 
> 'typical' user would do?

Because, then, your benchmark is worthless ;)

> 
> 
> 
> 

On 5/8/15, 6:36 AM, in article miie20$l52$3@dont-email.me, "Slimer"
<slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:

>>> He makes some good points but also throws out a few wild/loose claims once
>>> in a while. Bottom line is that he does advocate.
>>> 
>>> Technically I think that Linux is better. But from a consumer standpoint I
>>> think that Windows is better. Technically Windows is more than capable to do
>>> the things consumers do.
>>> 
>>> The large support network and app availability make Windows a better choice
>>> for the average Joe. But if I was putting together a data-center then I'd go
>>> with Linux.
>> 
>> The Linux kernel is excellent from everything I know... and it allows the
>> use of excellent file systems. It is ahead in those areas. But the consumer
>> UI side is a disaster, as is the application choice. It makes it a
>> non-starter for most non-fanatics who are looking for a desktop solution
>> that does even the *basics* well.
> 
> GNOME is a lot better than KDE IMO, especially in the more recent
> versions. I usually favour it whenever I install Linux. It seems lighter
> as well. I dunno if you'd like to try it out and find its problems but I
> don't think that they are as numerous as KDE.

Have not used Gnome in a while, but both MATE and Cinnamon (Gnome forks) are
*far* better than KDE. You can see this in the top video in my .sig and I
think I have one or two others on my channel. It is almost too far the other
direction, though, with being quite lacking in features.

In the video below (I think) I did find a quirk with how minimizing can get
confusing, but it is an edge case few are likely to run into.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 2015-05-08 1:25 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 5/8/15, 6:34 AM, in article miidvq$l52$2@dont-email.me, "Slimer"
> <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-05-07 11:16 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> On 5/7/15, 7:25 PM, in article
>>> 554c1eaf$0$19613$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com, "vallor"
>>> <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>>>>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>>>>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>>>>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>>>>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>>>>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
>>>> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>>>>
>>>> For instance, the whole "Linux doesn't have snapshots" thing was a
>>>> complete debacle.  Peter was correct -- and what is more, he pointed out
>>>> that btrfs had it, too (when I had only considered the snapshots in lvm).
>>>
>>> I openly admit I have no clue about snapshots on Linux... though I have not
>>> seen anything with an easy UI I have not looked much. But I think anyone who
>>> reads Peter's comments knows he is wrong far, far more often than he is
>>> right... making accusations of me "doctoring" logs of a program even when he
>>> had full access to the source code, claiming to have screencasting programs
>>> comparable to the one I speak of but for some reason he cannot name them
>>> (spoiler: he is out and out lying and no such program exists), his claims
>>> about OS X not being able to use OfficeJet scanners without downloading "3
>>> different software packages", his lies about DVD playback in Debian, his
>>> claims of Qt bugs being handled by the KDE team, his ignorance of how
>>> shortcuts and symbolic links are similar, and even his confusion as to what
>>> "Quit" and "Exit" do on Linux programs.
>>>
>>> And a lot more.
>>>
>>> Add to that his constant name calling and insults. He truly is more harm to
>>> Linux advocacy than benefit.
>>
>> 100% agreed. It's people like K�hlmann who will discourage people from
>> even trying Linux. I doubt _anyone_ wants to be associated with that guy
>> in any way.
>>
> And yet Vallor, clearly someone who is one of the better advocates, defends
> him.
>
> TomB could also be a decent advocate... though he had times of insanity as
> well.

I'll have to assume that in the Linux ecosystem, a Peter K�hlmann is 
somehow better than sex because I can't imagine why else he receives so 
much support from people who are clearly a lot smarter than he is.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
> >>
> >> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
> >> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
> >>
> >>
> > Liar.
> 
....
> 
> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the 
> world's users.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...

On 5/8/15, 6:37 AM, in article miie5j$l52$4@dont-email.me, "Slimer"
<slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:

....
>>> Melzzzzzz is an imbecile. He seems like a kind guy, but if you point out
>>> that you had issues of any kind, he just calls you a liar. I've given
>>> him many chances to show me that he isn't a complete buffoon and he
>>> failed every time so I've since binned him. He's not worth my time.
>> 
>> But he *did* admit he was wrong when he was shown evidence on this:
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/exit-then-rename>.
>> 
>> I commend him greatly for that... and you can see in the video his claim
>> where he was very insistent OS X would not do what it does.
> 
> I'm glad that he admitted to being wrong, but I simply can't stand being
> called a liar when in real-life, people get upset at the fact that I'm
> much too honest.

If I got bent out of shape every time someone claimed I was a liar with.
apparently, unquotable lies I would never come back to COLA. :)

I do not defend him in general, but I do think credit should be given where
it is due. He admitted to this and, surprisingly, even Ahlstrom noted the OS
X way of handling Recent Items was pretty cool (don't remember his wording).

This was after, of course, there was a big, insane debate over the feature
and how Linux handled it just as well and there was no reason to want such
lists to "track" files if they were moved or renamed.

I noted the "advocates" showed no sign of understanding the value of the
feature, was called a liar over it, then later Melzzzzzz and Ahlstrom
admitted I was right.

It is not a deal-breaking feature nor one I even speak of when someone asks
me the difference between OS X and Windows, but it is just a sign of Apple
focusing on the details and the "little things" that impact ease of use.
Since I have spoken of it in here I have seen multiple example where it
would have come in handle for people on Windows and where OS X users benefit
from it without even thinking about it.

>>>> Like I said before, I admire vallor for being an entrepreneur and
>>>> blazing trails way back then. That's a cool thing.
>>>> 
>>>> It's sad to see him hoodwinked by other idiots in this group just
>>>> because they pretend to be Linux advocates.
>>> 
>>> The thing about vallor is that as often as you might disagree with him,
>>> at least he makes a point of proving what he's saying and making
>>> logical, educated statements rather than ridiculous comments with no
>>> basis whatsoever. He's like the anti-7. He believes that Linux is better
>>> for _good_ reasons and defends his position. All of us have to up our
>>> game to debate with him and that's a good thing.
>>> 
>>> It's people like him that make me want to root for Linux.
>> 
>> Good point. Wish other "advocates" could rise to his level.
> 
> It's not going to happen as long as you have cocksuckers like William
> Poaster and Chris Ahlstrom enforcing every stupid statement people like
> Peter K�hlmann makes.

Agreed.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/8/15, 9:23 AM, in article
3c71bb43-7adb-4f69-9187-97b3ea339307@googlegroups.com, "-hh"
<recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>> On 05/07/2015 03:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>> <wailings of yet another Snit sock>
>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>> 
>> Heh, no moderator, so this statement is moot:
> 
> When was there ever one?  That's a free clue to the credibility of
> that FAQ's authors.
> 
>> And the OP is one of these:
>>    2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>> 
>> Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>>   insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
>>   containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>>   Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>>   Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
> 
> Again, do be cautious of the propaganda and bias within the authors.
> For example, author Mark Bilk was a 9-11 Conspiracy Theorist of the
> "Hidden tons of thermite" ilk...even a basic scientific review revealed his
> claims to be fruitcake-class, which he then tried to hide by crafting ever
> more elaborate "explanations".  And if memory serves, some of the others
> were utterly convinced that Microsoft was actively employing people to
> post in COLA, and made pointed accusations, despite having utterly no
> evidence or even a credible basis.

Bilk was... different. He was even more "out there" than RonB with his
claims and his conspiracy theories. And it was not just that he had odd
ideas, they were so outrageously unsupportable and even contradictory it
made it hard to take him seriously on anything.

Last I checked he still has a page of lies about me on his site. He really
could not deal with the fact I gave him a chance to back his insanity and he
failed horribly. 
 
> As such, if there was any influence on Linux adoption by COLA, it was
> most likely damage caused by these fanboy lunatics wother their ludicrous
> claims.



-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 1:41:18 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> Bilk was... different. He was even more "out there" than RonB with his
> claims and his conspiracy theories. And it was not just that he had odd
> ideas, they were so outrageously unsupportable and even contradictory it
> made it hard to take him seriously on anything.
> 
> Last I checked he still has a page of lies about me on his site. He really
> could not deal with the fact I gave him a chance to back his insanity and he
> failed horribly. 

Those snit lists were not created by Mark and you know that but you continue to conflate the two anyway. He is simply serving them up to expose you for the liar and insane troll that you are snit Michael Glasser.
Mark's conspiracy theories have nothing to do with those lists.

Read all about snit here:
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snit.html
http://usenet.sandman.net/TrollScoring/Snit

See a pattern?
You should.
Find a single person who supports snit Michael Glasser for any reasonable length of time and chances are very good you have stumbled upon a snit sock puppet because ultimately just about everyone hates snit Michael Glasser.

On 5/8/15, 11:35 AM, in article
98099068-9282-453b-9659-db253b7f20db@googlegroups.com, "Germs"
<jeremywalmartprescottaz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 1:41:18 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
>> Bilk was... different. He was even more "out there" than RonB with his
>> claims and his conspiracy theories. And it was not just that he had odd
>> ideas, they were so outrageously unsupportable and even contradictory it
>> made it hard to take him seriously on anything.
>> 
>> Last I checked he still has a page of lies about me on his site. He really
>> could not deal with the fact I gave him a chance to back his insanity and he
>> failed horribly.
> 
> Those snit lists were not created by Mark

The one created by Carroll and his ex-girlfriend was not, but his own list
of lies was. 

> and you know that but you continue to conflate the two anyway. He is simply
> serving them up to expose you for the liar and insane troll that you are snit
> Michael Glasser. 

Yet doing so without quoting a single lie of mine. How does that work, Mr.
Troll Sock?


> Mark's conspiracy theories have nothing to do with those
> lists.
> 
> Read all about snit here:
> http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html
> http://cosmicpenguin.com/snit.html
> http://usenet.sandman.net/TrollScoring/Snit
> 
> See a pattern?
> You should.
> Find a single person who supports snit Michael Glasser for any reasonable
> length of time and chances are very good you have stumbled upon a snit sock
> puppet because ultimately just about everyone hates snit Michael Glasser.

Hi Flatfish... or someone working to copy that style. Maybe Carroll.
Whatever. Who cares.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On 5/8/2015 1:32 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>>>> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Liar.
>>
> ...
>>
>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the
>> world's users.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...


What lie?

I think you have bad English comprehension skills, and didn't understand 
what he wrote.  He's not saying he uses Linux now.

On Fri, 08 May 2015 14:49:27 -0400
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 5/8/2015 1:32 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
> > DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> >>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
> >>>> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Liar.
> >>
> > ...
> >>
> >> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the
> >> world's users.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using
> > Linux...
> 
> 
> What lie?
> 
> I think you have bad English comprehension skills, and didn't
> understand what he wrote.  He's not saying he uses Linux now.
> 
> 

Don;t play stupid. You know what I mean. Slimer claims he used
Linux since 1998/9... I call that bullshit. 
Also claim that he will be using Linux anytime is bullshit Lie.

On 5/8/2015 3:12 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On Fri, 08 May 2015 14:49:27 -0400 DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2015 1:32 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400 DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using
>>>>>> Linux exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Liar.
>>>>
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for
>>>> the world's users.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using
>>> Linux...
>>
>>
>> What lie?
>>
>> I think you have bad English comprehension skills, and didn't
>> understand what he wrote.  He's not saying he uses Linux now.
>>
>>
>
> Don;t play stupid. You know what I mean. Slimer claims he used Linux
> since 1998/9... I call that bullshit. Also claim that he will be
> using Linux anytime is bullshit Lie.


No, I didn't know what you meant, because your English is all over the
place.  I can't read your mind.  When he says about Linux "For the time 
being, it's not ready." and you say "Liar", I thought you were talking 
about Linux, not about Slimer.

Fix your writing.  It's your responsibility to communicate well in 
English - it's not our responsibility to "know what you mean".

Anyway, go back about a year and you'll see Slimer posting to cola with 
Linux:  May 2014 - he posted using Pan 0.139

"OpenSUSE Tumbleweed was actually the first iteration of GNU/Linux I
liked in 2011. I've used GNU/Linux sporadically over the years (for an
extended period of time before Windows 7 was released and from 2011
until around  November 2013) and Tumbleweed seemed like the best
compromise between
static and rolling distributions. It is through OpenSUSE that I learned
the most. However, Tumbleweed often broke if I chose to use the
proprietary driver. Every time there was a kernel upgrade, I had to
manually re-install the proprietary driver which wasn't that much of a
big deal but became quite tiresome with time. I mostly hopped after that
but I have to say that Ubuntu is definitely where I will stay from now
on, especially in light of how good Mir turned out. As it is, I now view
GNU/Linux history as pre-Mir and post-Mir."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/hBQhY_Ny0j0/belFWh-DRyQJ


What's suspicious about him using Linux since 1998/1999 anyway?  I first 
used Linux in 1997 (Red Hat 4.2), just a little, then I barely looked at 
it again until June 2004 when I found cola.  Since then I've used it for 
maybe 1-2 months per year.  Do you "call that bullshit" too?

On Fri, 08 May 2015 15:59:40 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/8/2015 3:12 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 14:49:27 -0400 DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 1:32 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400 DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using
>>>>>>> Linux exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Liar.
>>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for
>>>>> the world's users.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using
>>>> Linux...
>>>
>>>
>>> What lie?
>>>
>>> I think you have bad English comprehension skills, and didn't
>>> understand what he wrote.  He's not saying he uses Linux now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Don;t play stupid. You know what I mean. Slimer claims he used Linux
>> since 1998/9... I call that bullshit. Also claim that he will be
>> using Linux anytime is bullshit Lie.
> 
> 
> No, I didn't know what you meant, because your English is all over the
> place.  I can't read your mind.  When he says about Linux "For the time 
> being, it's not ready." and you say "Liar", I thought you were talking 
> about Linux, not about Slimer.
> 
> Fix your writing.  It's your responsibility to communicate well in 
> English - it's not our responsibility to "know what you mean".
> 
> Anyway, go back about a year and you'll see Slimer posting to cola with 
> Linux:  May 2014 - he posted using Pan 0.139
> 
> "OpenSUSE Tumbleweed was actually the first iteration of GNU/Linux I
> liked in 2011. I've used GNU/Linux sporadically over the years (for an
> extended period of time before Windows 7 was released and from 2011
> until around  November 2013) and Tumbleweed seemed like the best
> compromise between
> static and rolling distributions. It is through OpenSUSE that I learned
> the most. However, Tumbleweed often broke if I chose to use the
> proprietary driver. Every time there was a kernel upgrade, I had to
> manually re-install the proprietary driver which wasn't that much of a
> big deal but became quite tiresome with time. I mostly hopped after that
> but I have to say that Ubuntu is definitely where I will stay from now
> on, especially in light of how good Mir turned out. As it is, I now view
> GNU/Linux history as pre-Mir and post-Mir."
> 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/hBQhY_Ny0j0/belFWh-DRyQJ
> 
> 
> What's suspicious about him using Linux since 1998/1999 anyway?  I first 
> used Linux in 1997 (Red Hat 4.2), just a little, then I barely looked at 
> it again until June 2004 when I found cola.  Since then I've used it for 
> maybe 1-2 months per year.  Do you "call that bullshit" too?

I'd call that another one percenter!
I once cut my hand on a Redhat 4.2 plastic CD box and have hated
Redhat ever since. 

On Fri, 08 May 2015 15:59:40 -0400
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> 
> What's suspicious about him using Linux since 1998/1999 anyway?

In SLimer case it's obvious...

  I
> first used Linux in 1997 (Red Hat 4.2), just a little, then I barely
> looked at it again until June 2004 when I found cola.  Since then
> I've used it for maybe 1-2 months per year.  Do you "call that
> bullshit" too?

No.

> 

On 2015-05-08 3:59 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/8/2015 3:12 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 14:49:27 -0400 DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 1:32 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400 DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using
>>>>>>> Linux exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Liar.
>>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for
>>>>> the world's users.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using
>>>> Linux...
>>>
>>>
>>> What lie?
>>>
>>> I think you have bad English comprehension skills, and didn't
>>> understand what he wrote.  He's not saying he uses Linux now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Don;t play stupid. You know what I mean. Slimer claims he used Linux
>> since 1998/9... I call that bullshit. Also claim that he will be
>> using Linux anytime is bullshit Lie.
>
>
> No, I didn't know what you meant, because your English is all over the
> place.  I can't read your mind.  When he says about Linux "For the time
> being, it's not ready." and you say "Liar", I thought you were talking
> about Linux, not about Slimer.
>
> Fix your writing.  It's your responsibility to communicate well in
> English - it's not our responsibility to "know what you mean".
>
> Anyway, go back about a year and you'll see Slimer posting to cola with
> Linux:  May 2014 - he posted using Pan 0.139
>
> "OpenSUSE Tumbleweed was actually the first iteration of GNU/Linux I
> liked in 2011. I've used GNU/Linux sporadically over the years (for an
> extended period of time before Windows 7 was released and from 2011
> until around  November 2013) and Tumbleweed seemed like the best
> compromise between
> static and rolling distributions. It is through OpenSUSE that I learned
> the most. However, Tumbleweed often broke if I chose to use the
> proprietary driver. Every time there was a kernel upgrade, I had to
> manually re-install the proprietary driver which wasn't that much of a
> big deal but became quite tiresome with time. I mostly hopped after that
> but I have to say that Ubuntu is definitely where I will stay from now
> on, especially in light of how good Mir turned out. As it is, I now view
> GNU/Linux history as pre-Mir and post-Mir."
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/hBQhY_Ny0j0/belFWh-DRyQJ
>
>
>
> What's suspicious about him using Linux since 1998/1999 anyway?  I first
> used Linux in 1997 (Red Hat 4.2), just a little, then I barely looked at
> it again until June 2004 when I found cola.  Since then I've used it for
> maybe 1-2 months per year.  Do you "call that bullshit" too?

I think Melzzzz has no idea what the adverb "sporadically" means and 
therefore misunderstood what I was saying.

Not that I care what you think Melzzzz, but sporadically means "on and off."

I've given Linux a fair share of chances and even used the more extreme 
forms such as Trisquel. It has disappointed me too much for me to 
continue using it for now.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 12:44:57 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/8/15, 11:35 AM, in article
> 98099068-9282-453b-9659-db253b7f20db@googlegroups.com, "Germs"
> <jeremywalmartprescottaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 1:41:18 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> >> Bilk was... different. He was even more "out there" than RonB with his
> >> claims and his conspiracy theories. And it was not just that he had odd
> >> ideas, they were so outrageously unsupportable and even contradictory it
> >> made it hard to take him seriously on anything.
> >> 
> >> Last I checked he still has a page of lies about me on his site. He really
> >> could not deal with the fact I gave him a chance to back his insanity and he
> >> failed horribly.
> > 
> > Those snit lists were not created by Mark
> 
> The one created by Carroll 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512


False. That's just another of your paranoid delusions.

> and his ex-girlfriend was not, but his own list
> of lies was. 

I have no "ex-girlfriend" that was ever involved in anything to do with you. Face it, you're an over-medicated, delusional lunatic;  as such, like most people on usenet, I don't know anyone who would care about you... at all.

> > and you know that but you continue to conflate the two anyway. He is simply
> > serving them up to expose you for the liar and insane troll that you are snit
> > Michael Glasser. 
> 
> Yet doing so without quoting a single lie of mine. How does that work, Mr.
> Troll Sock?
> 
> 
> > Mark's conspiracy theories have nothing to do with those
> > lists.
> > 
> > Read all about snit here:
> > http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html
> > http://cosmicpenguin.com/snit.html
> > http://usenet.sandman.net/TrollScoring/Snit
> > 
> > See a pattern?
> > You should.
> > Find a single person who supports snit Michael Glasser for any reasonable
> > length of time and chances are very good you have stumbled upon a snit sock
> > puppet because ultimately just about everyone hates snit Michael Glasser.
> 
> Hi Flatfish... or someone working to copy that style. Maybe Carroll.
> Whatever. Who cares.

No one cares... but it's fun to watch you deny it anyway ;)


1- Adam Kesher: "Steve, IIRC Sandman's website has a member
area and a login. If you forget your password, you can ask it
to e-mail it to you, and a bot will send an e-mail.  *That*
is the e-mail Snit got from Sandman's website, and yes he's
that fucked in the head and starved for attention that he'd
claim it to be an e-mail from Sandman himself. So, don't get
sucked into his little circus.  The e-mail, in this particular
instance, did probably originate from Sandman.net."  27 Feb 2007

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/dac74355552b4cc7

2- Alan Baker: "People's perceptions of you are *formed*
by behaviour and not withstanding your occasional on topic
posts, I wish you'd leave too. Please note that despite the
amazing silliness that is Edwin, I have never made the same
wish of him."  27 Feb 2005

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4a7c3ebf3fc10221

3- amicus_curious (COLA): "Where on earth do you get the
idea that I am arguing with you, little man? Is your name
"Hadron"? Shoo! Go back to your mail order business!"
29 May 2011

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/00ee203fe6183b1b

4- Andrew J. Brehm: "You are not flamed because you speak the
truth, you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep
disrupting the newsgroup."  27 Feb 2005

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/52eab53a559e00ce

5- AZ Nomad: "The fact that you routinely change your headers
to weasel out of killfiles proves that you're an asshole."
25 Jun 2007

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/51b43d6c9613c9da

6- Andy/news/nospam: "Why do you keep these things up, Snit? Why
not just let them go away and show how responsible a member
of CSMA you are?  You could show your enemies up by being
better than them, rise above the low level you so obviously
dislike. Anything, just stop...."  26 Apr 2007

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d6ffb6b06aa237e5

7- B.B.: "Does the From: header contain the string "Snit"? If
yes, then troll. Otherwise, maybe. Dunno why I had my KF on
you set to expire, but it's fixed now."  13 Mar 2005

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/8a98d179b2ff9578

8- BaJoRi: "You know it, and I know it, and everyone else who
has read your idiocy knows it. I took your statement, showed
it to be wrong, then added even more, just to be a dick and
REALLY show you to be a fool.  You need to judiciously snip
out pertinent points because you are an intellectually dwarfed
turd-burglar."  11 Nov 2008

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.vacation.las-vegas/msg/647944511b74b82f

9- bobinnv: "I learned some time ago how much better this
group can be if you kill file Snit. I have never understood
why more people don't do the same.."  5 Aug 2006

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/0706dbef8ce1f903

10- Bob B.: "This has always been pretty much a free-for-all
group, but since Snit showed up, its become almost impossible
to have a decent discussion about anything. The solution is
to NOT REPLY TO SNIT. But for some reason, some people just
can't stop feeding him."  27 Dec 2004

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3d2f1dff196ca190

11- bunny: Subject "snit makes me sad", Text "really actually 
=3D:-(   9 Oct 2004

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4e31cb49c1e2d432

12- Brian: "LOL, Has anyone ever been more universally hated on
the USENET than Snit? Too bad he craves the hatred and negative
attention.  We will read about him in the news some day soon
going on a shooting rampage. Somebody should get the pychopath
some help before he VT's a bunch of people.  29 May 2007

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/66a89e4f5c89f489

13- buzz off: "Snit is obviously mentally ill, but you and
Steve don't help. You encourage him to post, which he doesn't
need to do. We would all be better off if you just ignore him.
17 Nov 2004

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/2ed879f256677548

14- Carlo Coggi: "He must believe he is surrounded by 'trolls'
.... in the groups he trolls in, that is.  I wondered if the
idiotrollers like snit would reply to this thread. Of course, I
didn't see his posts, only your reply".  07 Aug 2006 

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5ea48f7a84115fd1

15- C Lund: "Snit is not my responsibility. Maybe it's time
for you to learn how to use your kill-filter. I am assuming, of
course, that your Usenet browser has a kill-filter."  5 Mar 2005

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/2c390a34b05b24a9

16- cc (COLA): "You are incapable of letting anything go. In
fact, I guarantee you will respond to this post in under 3
hours. Hell, I'd be surprised if it takes longer than 30
minutes. If I really wanted to, I could make this little
side topic go on forever, because you are a complete moron
who just has to respond to anything written about or to you,
even if it just means repeating yourself."  1 Feb 2010

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/3712090033411605

17- Chance Furlong: "HPT, Wally, Sandman, C Lund, Steve
Carroll and Tim Adams are not trolls and do not troll. You,
on the other hand, are a troll."  27 Aug 2009

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/28c267f26965b43f

18- Chris Ahlstrom (COLA): "I try to go more by the contents
of the posts. Although some clowns (e.g. Snit) spew out so
much chaff it is not worth the effort." 14 Feb 2010

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/8b6a982957c7c9d5

Chris Ahlstrom (COLA): "Actually, many of the advocates are
sick to death of Snit's never-ending puerile blather about
trivialities.  The occasional reasonable conversations are
too few and far between."  6 Mar 2011

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/811326833ba71864

19- Chris Clement: "ugh....geez man.....let it go"  5 Jul 2006

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/ed093996df6547b2
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It was reported that Melzzzzz posted:

> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>> > On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>> >> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Liar.
>> 
> ...
>> 
>> So spare us your delusions.  
>> Linux is FAR from being ready for the dumb M$ windows (l)users.

I hace corrected DooFu$'s post.

> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...

As does DooFu$.

-- 
openSUSE 13.2 64-bit
KDE 4.14.6
Kernel: 4.0.0-1.1.g49e42b3.x86_64 GNU/Linux 2015-04-17

This message is virus free, as absolutely 
NO Micro$oft products were used in its preperation. 

On 5/8/2015 6:07 PM, William Poaster wrote:
> It was reported that Melzzzzz posted:
>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>>>>> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Liar.
>>>
>> ...
>>>
>>> So spare us your delusions.
>>> Linux is FAR from being ready for the dumb M$ windows (l)users.
>
> I hace corrected DooFu$'s post.

heh!  Good self-nuke there, Dumb Willie.



>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...
>
> As does DooFu$.

What lies about my Linux usage are you referring to, lamebrain?

On Fri, 8 May 2015 23:07:10 +0100, William Poaster wrote:

> It was reported that Melzzzzz posted:
> 
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>> > On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>>> >> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > Liar.
>>> 
>> ...
>>> 
>>> So spare us your delusions.  
>>> Linux is FAR from being ready for the dumb M$ windows (l)users.
> 
> I hace corrected DooFu$'s post.
    ^^^^
You're a janitor aren't you?
It's obvious.
    

On 5/8/15, 3:12 PM, in article mijcb3$hv5$4@dont-email.me, "DFS"
<nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...
>> 
>> As does DooFu$.
> 
> What lies about my Linux usage are you referring to, lamebrain?

He just has to say you lied - no need to quote them... and if he provides
quotes no need to actually show they are lies.

That is your standard, after all.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 4:19:00 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/8/15, 3:12 PM, in article mijcb3$hv5$4@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
> 
> >>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...
> >> 
> >> As does DooFu$.
> > 
> > What lies about my Linux usage are you referring to, lamebrain?
> 
> He just has to say you lied - no need to quote them... 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512


One would expect to see you post such drivel... "That is your standard, after all."

> and if he provides
> quotes no need to actually show they are lies.
> 
> That is your standard, after all.

Yeah, right <eyeroll>. Good meds again today, Snit? ;)

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On 05/08/2015 02:54 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>
>>
>> I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think you guys really give
>> other Linux advocates enough credit.
>
> Do you *really* care about the opinions of these perennial fsckwits?
>
> They're simply manipulating you, loosening up the line a bit before
> they jerk the hook into your mouth.... trolling.


Certainly a possibility, but what difference would it make, if I'm not 
compromising anything, nor expecting anything?

What I do see, though, is people expressing perceptions that I don't 
share.  And I'm not even going to start naming them, because from what I 
see, that just starts a cycle of "but...but...but..."...

-- 
  -v

"BTW uuid is a horrible thing - they can change suddenly and unexpectedly"

Husse Apr 30 2007

On Fri, 08 May 2015 17:31:29 +0200, Melzzzzz wrote:

> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>
>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>> exclusively.
>> For the time being, it's not ready.
>>
>>
> Liar.

Not ready for what? -- his proprietary auto-trolling application?

-- 
To WinDrones and iCultists obsessed with Linux. Get a life.

Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 08 May 2015 11:52:23 -0400
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2015 11:34 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>> > On 5/8/15 4:27 PM, DFS wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS
>> >> partition yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost
>> >> exactly the same speed as NTFS.
>> >>
>> >> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > That is because you are dumb. When benchmarking large file writes
>> > you should perfomr sync and measure that time as well,as writeback
>> > cache size plays major role. That is why you notice NTFS is
>> > supposedly faster... as writeback cache on Windows is larger....
>> 
>> What do you mean 'perform sync'?
>
> Perform actual write, that is flush writeback buffer to disk. 
> eg:
> time (cp file1 file2 && sync)
> will give you actual time on Linux.
>
>> And why would I mess with such stuff, when it's not at all what a 
>> 'typical' user would do?
>
> Because, then, your benchmark is worthless ;)

Well, so is DFS.  He is a benchmark for trolling ignoramuses.

You also want to drop cached items as well:

To free pagecache: # echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches

To free dentries and inodes: # echo 2 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches

To free pagecache, dentries and inodes: # echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches

(Taken from 

<http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/87908/how-do-you-empty-the-buffers-and-cache-on-a-linux-system>)

-- 
"All Bibles are man-made."
		-- Thomas Edison

Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>> > On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>> >> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Liar.
> ...
>> 
>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the 
>> world's users.

Then so is Windows.

Who do you think Microsoft keeps churning it hard with every version?

Even Microsoft knows Windows is not ready for users.  Luckily for them,
they have the OEMs sewed up, so users get to choose the one-party candidate
for their "desktops".

These trolls continue to confuse the operating system with a company
marketing a product based on the operating system.

> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...

He lies about pretty much everything.  DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's
thick as shit about some things.

Remember the companies that tried offering alternative operating systems on
their computers?

Hitachi offered BeOS as a dual boot (IIRC).  Microsoft reminded them of
their "obligations".

ASUS showed an Android-powered netbook at a trade show.  The very next day,
ASUS *apologized* to Microsoft for showing it.

Vendors like DELL offered Linux, but made the pages hard to find, with
"Dell Recommends Windows" splattered on them.

Microsoft sues Android vendors over "patents".

   http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-States-Debate-Remedies

   Kuney continued to bang the drum over Microsofts alleged pressure on OEMs
   by introducing a summer 2000 memo from Microsofts former OEM chieftain
   Joachim Kempin to Gates. "Im thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in
   the past with anti-Linux. ... They should do a delicate dance," Kempin
   said in the note. Those who did not dance to Microsofts tune would be hit
   with restricted source code deliveries, Kuney told the courtroom. Gates
   forwarded the Kempin memo to Ballmer, without questioning such
   strategies, Kuney added.

-- 
glibido:
	All talk and no action.

It was reported that Chris Ahlstrom posted:

> Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>> > On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>>> >> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > Liar.
>> ...
>>> 
>>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the 
>>> world's users.
>
> Then so is Windows.

Indeed, Windows is *far* from being ready ready for the world's users.
In 2012, M$ changed their EULA to Bar Class Action Law Suits wrt Win8.
This forbids its victim.....errr...."customers" from suing or joining in
class action suits against the company.
In the US, the 14th Amendment guarantees everyone the right of due process,
but it seems that M$ wants to ride roughshod over that.

IF M$ products *were* fit-for-use, then surely the company would not need
to take such drastic action.

Class action suits against M$, include:
Alleging  that the company issued false statements regarding the
performance of its Surface RT ...

Class action claims by Xbox 360 owners who say the video game console has
a design defect that causes game discs to be gouged, & upheld by a federal
appeals court.

A settlement was reached in a class action lawsuit about certain
Microsoft software acquired by consumers & businesses between February
18, 1995 and December 15, 2001 for use in California. 



> Who do you think Microsoft keeps churning it hard with every version?
>
> Even Microsoft knows Windows is not ready for users.  Luckily for them,
> they have the OEMs sewed up, so users get to choose the one-party candidate
> for their "desktops".
>
> These trolls continue to confuse the operating system with a company
> marketing a product based on the operating system.
>
>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...
>
> He lies about pretty much everything.  DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's
> thick as shit about some things.

+1

> Remember the companies that tried offering alternative operating systems on
> their computers?
>
> Hitachi offered BeOS as a dual boot (IIRC).  Microsoft reminded them of
> their "obligations".
>
> ASUS showed an Android-powered netbook at a trade show.  The very next day,
> ASUS *apologized* to Microsoft for showing it.
>
> Vendors like DELL offered Linux, but made the pages hard to find, with
> "Dell Recommends Windows" splattered on them.
>
> Microsoft sues Android vendors over "patents".
>
>    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-States-Debate-Remedies
>
>    Kuney continued to bang the drum over Microsofts alleged pressure on OEMs
>    by introducing a summer 2000 memo from Microsofts former OEM chieftain
>    Joachim Kempin to Gates. "Im thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in
>    the past with anti-Linux. ... They should do a delicate dance," Kempin
>    said in the note. Those who did not dance to Microsofts tune would be hit
>    with restricted source code deliveries, Kuney told the courtroom. Gates
>    forwarded the Kempin memo to Ballmer, without questioning such
>    strategies, Kuney added.
>

-- 
openSUSE 13.2 64-bit
KDE 4.14.6
Kernel: 4.0.0-1.1.g49e42b3.x86_64 GNU/Linux 2015-04-17

This message is virus free, as absolutely 
NO Micro$oft products were used in its preperation. 

On 5/9/2015 6:38 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 11:52:23 -0400
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 11:34 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>> On 5/8/15 4:27 PM, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS
>>>>> partition yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost
>>>>> exactly the same speed as NTFS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is because you are dumb. When benchmarking large file writes
>>>> you should perfomr sync and measure that time as well,as writeback
>>>> cache size plays major role. That is why you notice NTFS is
>>>> supposedly faster... as writeback cache on Windows is larger....
>>>
>>> What do you mean 'perform sync'?
>>
>> Perform actual write, that is flush writeback buffer to disk.
>> eg:
>> time (cp file1 file2 && sync)
>> will give you actual time on Linux.
>>
>>> And why would I mess with such stuff, when it's not at all what a
>>> 'typical' user would do?
>>
>> Because, then, your benchmark is worthless ;)
>
> Well, so is DFS.  He is a benchmark for trolling ignoramuses.
>
> You also want to drop cached items as well:
>
> To free pagecache: # echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>
> To free dentries and inodes: # echo 2 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>
> To free pagecache, dentries and inodes: # echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>
> (Taken from
>
> <http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/87908/how-do-you-empty-the-buffers-and-cache-on-a-linux-system>)


'Cause that's how normal people use their computers.

On 5/9/2015 6:50 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 12:10:11 -0400
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 11:31 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>>> On 5/8/15 5:21 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> By 2025, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself using Linux
>>>>> exclusively. For the time being, it's not ready.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Liar.
>> ...
>>>
>>> So spare us your delusions.  Linux is FAR from being ready for the
>>> world's users.
>
> Then so is Windows.

giggle!

"Marti, we don't care about Microsoft and its products here."
Chris "Little Beaver" Ahlstrom, Oct 2013



> Who do you think Microsoft keeps churning it hard with every version?

Same reason virtually every software product is 'churned' with every 
version.



> Even Microsoft knows Windows is not ready for users.  Luckily for them,
> they have the OEMs sewed up, so users get to choose the one-party candidate
> for their "desktops".
>
> These trolls continue to confuse the operating system with a company
> marketing a product based on the operating system.

The reason Linux marketing sucks so much is the cheapskate, freeloading 
community won't spend any money.


"Users have downloaded Luna over 2,000,000 times. Around 99.875% of 
those users download without paying. Of the tiny 0.125% who do, the most 
common payments are the default $10, followed by $1. But again, only a 
tiny fraction of one percent of users even decide to pay in the first 
place."

Feb 10 2015
http://blog.elementary.io/post/110645528530/payments




>> You missed the point. He is Windroid troll, he Lies about using Linux...
>
> He lies about pretty much everything.  DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's
> thick as shit about some things.
>
> Remember the companies that tried offering alternative operating systems on
> their computers?

Sure we remember them: nobody bought them.  The people demanded Windows, 
since late May 1990.


> Hitachi offered BeOS as a dual boot (IIRC).  Microsoft reminded them of
> their "obligations".

Why is obligations in quotes, Creepy, as if Hitachi didn't willingly 
sign legal agreements with Microsoft?

Explain yourself, creep.  Or slink away as you always do.


> ASUS showed an Android-powered netbook at a trade show.  The very next day,
> ASUS *apologized* to Microsoft for showing it.

Liar.


> Vendors like DELL offered Linux, but made the pages hard to find, with
> "Dell Recommends Windows" splattered on them.

The pages weren't as hard to find as Linux purchasers are.


> Microsoft sues Android vendors over "patents".

Why is patents in quotes, Creepy, as if they're not valid, 
legally-enforceable patents for technology Microsoft developed and owns 
the rights to?

Explain yourself, creep.  Or slink away as you always do.



>     http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-States-Debate-Remedies
>
>     Kuney continued to bang the drum over Microsofts alleged pressure on OEMs
>     by introducing a summer 2000 memo from Microsofts former OEM chieftain
>     Joachim Kempin to Gates. "Im thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in
>     the past with anti-Linux. ... They should do a delicate dance," Kempin
>     said in the note. Those who did not dance to Microsofts tune would be hit
>     with restricted source code deliveries, Kuney told the courtroom. Gates
>     forwarded the Kempin memo to Ballmer, without questioning such
>     strategies, Kuney added.
>

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>Remember the companies that tried offering alternative operating systems on
>their computers?
>
>Hitachi offered BeOS as a dual boot (IIRC).  Microsoft reminded them of
>their "obligations".
>
>ASUS showed an Android-powered netbook at a trade show.  The very next day,
>ASUS *apologized* to Microsoft for showing it.
>
>Vendors like DELL offered Linux, but made the pages hard to find, with
>"Dell Recommends Windows" splattered on them.

But Ezekreep claims that that's all OK.  

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head, forcing them to use Windows,
so there's nothing to complain about, you see.

Oh, and if you're not willing to pay $200 extra to buy a computer that
doesn't have Windows on it, you have "no principals" and are a
"hypocrite", according to the Kreep.

What a prick

-- 
"Tell us again how negative-feedback decreases the stability of an
amplifier."  -  trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel", lying shamelessly

Melzzzzz wrote:

> DumFSck wrote:
>> 
>> What lie?
>
>Don;t play stupid. You know what I mean. Slimer claims he used
>Linux since 1998/9... I call that bullshit. 

Dumfsck pulls the common troll tactic of asking "what lie" and then
focusing on the one issue that was not a lie while pretending not to
notice all the lies.  The dumb fsck hopes to fool some dull-witted
readers, like -highhorse or ccretin.

Who said GIMP "does the same" as Photoshop?  No one.  Who said that
Photoshop is a "waste" in all situations?  No one.  Liars.

-- 
'What -hh said about Photoshop - expensive, waste, Gimp does the same
for free - is exactly the written position of most if not all
"advocates" on cola.'  -  DumFSck, lying shamelessly

On 5/9/2015 6:50 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:


> DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's thick as shit about some things.


Want a list of your lies and idiocy?  Say when and I'll produce it.

On 2015-05-09, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 11:52:23 -0400
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2015 11:34 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
>>> > On 5/8/15 4:27 PM, DFS wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> ReFS is in WinServer 2012 R2 at least.  I created a 10GB ReFS
>>> >> partition yesterday, and did my file copy test; it ran at almost
>>> >> exactly the same speed as NTFS.
>>> >>
>>> >> Haven't looked any further into what ReFS offers above NTFS.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > That is because you are dumb. When benchmarking large file writes
>>> > you should perfomr sync and measure that time as well,as writeback
>>> > cache size plays major role. That is why you notice NTFS is
>>> > supposedly faster... as writeback cache on Windows is larger....

....and again, all of this ingores the fact that you probably want to do
more than one thing with your system. This isn't 1988 back when Norton SI
was the relevant artificial benchmark. Raw speed is less relevant for any
task that the user isn't sitting there waiting on. What's far more important
is how that task impacts the rest of the system and whether or not my genuine
"real time" tasks are negatively affected.

   It's a metric for a single-tasking DOS user.

   As a modern power user, I am far more interested in how it might interact
with the 5 other interesting things I might be doing right now.

>>> 
>>> What do you mean 'perform sync'?
>>
>> Perform actual write, that is flush writeback buffer to disk. 
>> eg:
>> time (cp file1 file2 && sync)
>> will give you actual time on Linux.
>>
>>> And why would I mess with such stuff, when it's not at all what a 
>>> 'typical' user would do?
>>
>> Because, then, your benchmark is worthless ;)
>
> Well, so is DFS.  He is a benchmark for trolling ignoramuses.
>
> You also want to drop cached items as well:
>
> To free pagecache: # echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>
> To free dentries and inodes: # echo 2 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>
> To free pagecache, dentries and inodes: # echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>
> (Taken from 
>
><http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/87908/how-do-you-empty-the-buffers-and-cache-on-a-linux-system>)
>


-- 

   Apple: Being able to install Firefox or VLC makes you a power user.   |||
                                                                        / | \

DFS wrote:

> On 5/9/2015 6:50 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
> 
>> DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's thick as shit about some things.
> 
> 
> Want a list of your lies and idiocy?  Say when and I'll produce it.

Do you build a database of the "quotes" (you mangled yourself before) like 
that lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser?

Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/9/2015 6:50 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's thick as shit about some things.
>> 
>> Want a list of your lies and idiocy?  Say when and I'll produce it.

DFS can't produce such a list.  Just a bunch of out-of-context quotes,
which still mostly make sense to me.

Well, maybe a few places where I made some mistakes.  :-)

> Do you build a database of the "quotes" (you mangled yourself before) like 
> that lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser?

Probably.  He's got all sorts of lists, no doubt.

They're funny because they often prove the opposite of the bullshit he's
trying to push.

But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and pasting
and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the flecks
of spittle hitting my face.

-- 
It would save me a lot of time if you just gave up and went mad now.

On 5/11/15, 10:21 AM, in article miqocp$f8n$2@dont-email.me, "Chris
Ahlstrom" <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

> Peter K�hlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> DFS wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5/9/2015 6:50 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> 
>>>> DFS doesn't lie as much, but he's thick as shit about some things.
>>> 
>>> Want a list of your lies and idiocy?  Say when and I'll produce it.
> 
> DFS can't produce such a list.  Just a bunch of out-of-context quotes,
> which still mostly make sense to me.
> 
> Well, maybe a few places where I made some mistakes.  :-)
> 
>> Do you build a database of the "quotes" (you mangled yourself before) like
>> that lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser?
> 
> Probably.  He's got all sorts of lists, no doubt.
> 
> They're funny because they often prove the opposite of the bullshit he's
> trying to push.
> 
> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and pasting
> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the flecks
> of spittle hitting my face.

The quotes I have of Peter show him to be dishonest and ignorant... there is
no doubt. And they do not even include his nonsense of insisting the output
of a program had to be "doctored" even when he had full access to the code.

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann, responding to Sir Slimer:
    -----
    | Anyone who gets upset that Windows or OS X uses ideas first
    | showcased on GNU/Linux don't understand the GPL license at all,
    | it seems. 
    "Ideas" have nothing to do with GPL, you imbecile Snit
    -----

  <https://stallman.org/photos/china/2000/ms_oss.html>
    -----
    But the ideas and logic of the GPL cannot be found in the Open
    Source Movement. They stem from the deeper goals and values of the
    Free Software Movement.

    The Free Software Movement was founded in 1984, but its
    inspiration comes from the ideals of 1776: freedom, community, and
    voluntary cooperation. This is what leads to free enterprise, to
    free speech, and to free software.
    -----
    
The "ideas and logic" of the GPL are tied to Stallman's views (as twisted as
they can be) of "freedom, community, and voluntary cooperation." The GPL is
about allowing others to use the ideas found in your IP. To claim ideas have
nothing to do with the GPL shows you do not understand how and why it was
developed. 

Message-ID: m525j1$pf3$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/GgFCok>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  <https://wiki.debian.org/MultimediaCodecs>
    -----
    DVD Playback
    DVDs are usually encrypted with CSS. CSS is not a codec. In any
    case, here is some information on playback of encrypted DVDs. All
    media players use libdvdcss2 in order to playback these encrypted
    DVDs. libdvdcss2 is not available in the official Debian
    repositories. 
    -----

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    || Not for "normal users", for the most part.  Browsing, email,
    || letter-writing, light "office" work, music, videos, etc. all
    || work right out of the box, even with Debian.
    | Even commercial dvds??
    Yes. That has worked since ages
    ------

Peter K�hlmann claims that DVD playback works out of the box for Debian -
and has for "ages" - even though the reality is it not only does not work,
the Debian Wiki states that that the needed codec is not even available in
their official repositories.

Message-ID: ltb2qd$vbp$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/NM6Kj7>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  <https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332544> Christoph Feck
    -----
    The tab widget is provided by the Qt library. Please report this
    issue directly to Qt developers via
    https://bugreports.qt-project.org/
    -----

  <https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-37812>
    -----
    Priority: P3: Somewhat important
    Status: Open Open
    Resolution: Unresolved
    Fix Version/s: Some future release
    -----
      
  Peter K�hlmann, in reference to that Qt library bug:
    -----
    That stupid clown Snit Michael Glasser has not the tiniest of
    clues who is to address with that "bug" ... It isn't a Qt widget
    that incompetent "computer expert" is complaining about, it is a
    KDE widget
    -----

Peter K�hlmann claims Christoph Feck of the KDE team says things which prove
he is "incompetent" and "has not the tiniest of clues who to address with
that 'bug'".
      
Message-ID: ljb27t$vfe$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/s0Jr4U>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann, referencing his own idiotic quotes:
    -----
    And what a surprise: Not a single Msg-ID supplied by that liar
    Snit... Because *if* he did supply Msg-IDs, anyone could see that
    he has doctored the posts. ... He would be shown as the imbecile
    liar he really is
    -----
Peter distances himself from his own statements saying a Msg-ID is
needed to prove he is an idiot. Done, with links. What excuse will he
make next? A claim to kill filter me so he can pretend to not see this
list is my guess! 

Message-ID: l9af1k$7ov$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/miEeYd>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    Except there are no "700 duplicative Linux distributions"
    It is (at most) about a dozen. The rest is special purpose, and
    not for the general usage on the desktop.
    -----
From <http://distrowatch.com>: "The bewildering choice and the ever
increasing number of Linux distributions can be confusing for those who are
new to Linux." 

Message-ID: jq7pqj$ro7$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/7mTTJw>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Snit: 
    ----- 
    Excellent screencasting software, similar to ScreenFlow.  And
    example of something I find key to its use:
    <http://youtu.be/To4v70huwAU>.  What OSS tool on desktop Linux
    has anything even close?
    ----- 
  Peter K�hlmann: 
    ----- 
    There are several more. Look up "Istanbul" for example or
    "Byzanz", or "Cankiri" The list can grow quite a bit, but
    these are the most used ones
    ----- 
No program Peter pointed to does the task shown in the video. Peter
never found *any* way on desktop Linux.

Message-ID: jkpf9p$545$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/cLC0Mo>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann: 
    -----
    In fact, there are at least 3 programs for screencasting which do
    either without exception *all* he "needs" or can do it combined
    with others
    -----
    | You have spoken of three programs.
    No, I have not. Your incredibly bad reading comprehension is
    rearing its ugly head again,
    -----
Both of those quotes come from the same day and the same thread and were
stated in that order. In another thread on a previous day Peter gave the
names of three screen recording programs: Istanbul, Byzanz, and Cankiri
    
Message-ID: l9scpl$fig$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/Q85TGT>
Message-ID: l9spoa$5qn$2@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/o6vJcb>
Message-ID: jkpf9p$545$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/cLC0Mo>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    When I talked about Hangout, that was obviously to anyone with a
    brain that it is a mobile app, a class of programs which will be
    more and more important
    -----
  <http://www.google.com/hangouts>
    -----
    Android Devices; iPhone, iPad & iPod; Computers; Gmail; Google+
    -----
Hmmmm, who is right about Google Hangout: Peter or Google? LOL!

Message-ID: l9n635$aga$2@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/t76po2>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    | For example, if I modified a BSD variant and tried to pass it
    | off as "Linux" to people I would be stopped. ...
    BSD allows such sheenigans
    -----
The BSD license has no power to override trademarks and "allow" this.

Message-ID: l98q2g$nj1$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/zvo4fv>
    
---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    | I was specifically in reference to "Nobody" and his incorrect
    | claim in reference to the Linux code that "Users can do anything
    | they want with it." This simply is not true.
    It *is* true. Users *can* do anything they want to with it.
    -----
Peter did also admit "they have to supply the source too if they want
to distribute the code". He never acknowledged his completely
contradictory claim was wrong.

Message-ID: l96ad6$t5b$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/IDdPqT>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    | [Shortcuts and symbolic links] are similar in usage...
    They are not even remotely "similar". Neither in usage nor in
    behaviour. If you had /any/ clue whatsoever you would know that.
    -----
It is not as if they are the same, but they clearly share many
similarities. Peter does not even know the basics on this topic.

Message-ID: l97mn6$mpb$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/0UHbhj>

---------------------------------------------------------------

    -----
    | So when I saw a sign that spoke of a "biblioth�que" I figured it
    | had to do with books ("biblio") and could guess with pretty
    | strong certainty it was a library. Similarly things like
    | "h�pital" meaning "hospital" and "m�tro" referring to the subway
    | system are not hard to figure out.
    Which does not help you a tiny little bit if you *hear* the
    language ...
    -----
When people *read* signs they need not *hear* them! Peter never
acknowledged his error and made accusations of dishonesty.

Message-ID: l92i71$s3j$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/eAm0cC>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann, after being shown these videos:
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PrintFirstTime.mp4>
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/FirstScan.mov>
  Both show an OfficeJet Pro 8600 after being connected to a network and
  being used for the first time on a Mac. And it works very, very well.
    -----
    Scanning [on OS X] is not supported *at* *all* without jumping
    through several hoops. This includes hunting down 3 different
    software packages (libusb, sane-backend and sane) *and* installing
    them. Out of the box no scanning is supported at all. This is in
    stark contrast to linux where scanning is supported right from the
    start after setting up the printer

    The same is true about *all* OfficeJet Pro printers under OSX.
    -----    
LOL! Yes, after being shown how an OfficeJet Pro works without doing
*anything* extra Peter still makes these completely incorrect claims.

Message-ID: l31oss$9o6$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/600BHt>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann 
    ----- 
    | When you launch it, the splash screen says 'gimp'
    Nope. 
    ------ 
Peter is wrong, and it is trivial to prove:
<http://www.gimp.org/about/splash/stable.html>.

Message-ID: jmmvqr$efo$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/rGhbir>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann: 
    ----- 
    The apps with "Quit" do *not* exit, they continue to run
    in the background
    ----- 
Had he known how to use "top" he would know he was wrong:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/top.mov>

Message-ID: gq8oo1$u4v$03$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/CcTIAO>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann, in reference to <http://goo.gl/IjlkV>:
    ----- 
    You both show just *again* your incredible cluelessness. That is
    *standard* X behaviour, you cretins. That Snot Michael Glasser
    knows *nothing* about that is normal, he is the worst "IT teacher"
    of all time. He knows nothing usefull about computing.
    -----
The video, of course, shows things other than just standard X
behavior. Peter never showed any understanding of this.

Message-Id: 4985cb95$0$32676$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net
<http://goo.gl/0R2qow>

---------------------------------------------------------------

In reference to: <http://goo.gl/gBV6G> / <http://goo.gl/nysWd>
  Peter K�hlmann: 
    ----- 
    | What's to understand?  I can't read, write, copy or
    | delete a root-owned folder... but I can rename it.
    Actually, no, you can't
    And stop lying. I have tested it.
    ----- 
    You have to tamper with the permissions to have it different. And
    for that reason DFS claims are simply bullshit.
    ----- 
    I can't duplicate the "problem" on any machine here.
    ----- 
    Since "Lost+found" is not created with the sticky bit at all, it
    should not exhibit the behaviour DFS claims. And I can do whatever
    I want with it on my systems (on all of them), it certainly does
    not behave in any way near that way claimed
    ----- 
Peter never admitted to his error.

Message-ID: ik9hu6$7li$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/LbeLp9>
Message-ID: ikaflj$1us$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/PyNcnz>
Message-ID: ike3nf$2u2$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/iQiekd>
Message-ID: ikbtti$e6r$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/P91njl>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann, speaking of HTML5:
    ----- 
    And browsers on desktop computers have little, if any, need to
    adhere to such a "standard" which has no real reason to exist
    except to support the idiotic iDevices
    ----- 
Yeah, HTML5 has no other reason to exist. LOL!

Message-ID: ijbl4c$2se$01$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/agjo2B>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4683>
    -----
    Clicking OK will restart the volume, even if no settings were
    changed. Changing this setting does not require the volume to
    be reinitialized; data is preserved.
    -----
  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    So You call having to reformat a drive in order to have that
    feature "choice"? Really?
    -----
Peter thinks "restarting" a volume reformats it even though it is
specifically stated no reinitialization is done and data is preserved.

Message-ID: jok7e8$e7k$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/RtL82B>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann, in reference to the term "DHCP network", which
  is used by Oracle, the University of Illinois, DATAQ, Netgear,
  Cisco, and other such groups, <http://goo.gl/C1TpPO>:
    -----
    No, it is technically bullshit. Nobody wanting to be taken
    seriously as being competent would *ever* use such an idiotic
    description.
    -----
So, to Peter, *none* of those groups should be seen as being competent
when it comes to networking.  None of them.  LOL!
    
Message-ID: jr35kp$bif$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/kf6zYv>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Snit, titling a thread where he made a mistake:
    -----
    Skype done.... *I* screwed up
    -----
  Peter K�hlman, referencing the same mistake:
    -----
    Snot Glasser will claim the most idiotic bullshit to wiggle out
    of the fact that he screwed up again
    -----
LOL! Just brilliant of Peter... and he never admitted to his mistake.

Message-ID: k1dtul$vhd$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/j3eShO>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter K�hlmann:
    -----
    Play Services do *not* run in the background. The Update services
    it provides *are* controllable by the user
    -----
  <https://developer.android.com/google/play-services>
    -----
    The Google Play services APK contains the individual Google
    services and runs as a background service in the Android OS. You
    interact with the background service through the client library
    and the service carries out the actions on your behalf.
    ...
    Automatic Updates
    Devices running Android 2.2 and newer and that have the Google
    Play Store app automatically receive updates to Google Play
    services.
    -----
Hmmm, who to believe about Google Play... Peter or Google. So hard to
decide!

Message-ID: la6leg$rh1$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/bg9e6e>

---------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
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On 05/07/2015 09:25 PM, vallor wrote:
> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>> Windows or OSX.

After all the years of Crapple fanbois spitting on Windows, the effort 
to make M$ and Crapple allies against Linux has to be nothing short of 
pure insanity.

The only possible rationale I can see is they want to maintain the 
status quo where your only choice is either Mac or Windows...

On 5/11/2015 9:30 PM, Nobody wrote:
> On 05/07/2015 09:25 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>>> Windows or OSX.
>
> After all the years of Crapple fanbois spitting on Windows, the effort
> to make M$ and Crapple allies against Linux has to be nothing short of
> pure insanity.
>
> The only possible rationale I can see is they want to maintain the
> status quo where your only choice is either Mac or Windows...


s/only/only good

On 5/11/2015 8:20 AM, shitv wrote:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Remember the companies that tried offering alternative operating systems on
>> their computers?
>>
>> Hitachi offered BeOS as a dual boot (IIRC).  Microsoft reminded them of
>> their "obligations".
>>
>> ASUS showed an Android-powered netbook at a trade show.  The very next day,
>> ASUS *apologized* to Microsoft for showing it.
>>
>> Vendors like DELL offered Linux, but made the pages hard to find, with
>> "Dell Recommends Windows" splattered on them.
>
> But Ezekreep claims that that's all OK.
>
> No one is holding a gun to anyone's head, forcing them to use Windows,
> so there's nothing to complain about, you see.
>
> Oh, and if you're not willing to pay $200 extra to buy a computer that
> doesn't have Windows on it, you have "no principals" and are a
> "hypocrite", according to the Kreep.


Did Zeke really misspell "principles", or is that just you being 
"intellectually superior" again?



> What a prick

What a dumbshitv.

Nobody wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 05/07/2015 09:25 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On 05/07/2015 07:18 PM, Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-07 9:11 PM, Tomas wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:04:33 -0400, Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-05-07 6:39 PM, Germs wrote:
>>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and
>>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as
>>>>>> Windows or OSX.
>
> After all the years of Crapple fanbois spitting on Windows, the effort 
> to make M$ and Crapple allies against Linux has to be nothing short of 
> pure insanity.
>
> The only possible rationale I can see is they want to maintain the 
> status quo where your only choice is either Mac or Windows...

Well, here you get to choose from "Slimer", "Tomas", and "Germs".

Pick your poison :-D

-- 
Confidence is simply that quiet, assured feeling you have before you
fall flat on your face.
		-- Dr. L. Binder

Nobody wrote:
>>>>> Windows or OSX advocate: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did some testing and comparison between Windows and Linux and 
>>>>> Linux just does not seem to be performing up to the same level as 
>>>>> Windows or OSX. 

Pretty much it, although an OS doesn't need to be the end-all, since it is 
really the Apps that are the main element of user productivity.

> After all the years of Crapple fanbois spitting on Windows, the effort 
> to make M$ and Crapple allies against Linux has to be nothing short of 
> pure insanity. 
>
> The only possible rationale I can see is they want to maintain the 
> status quo where your only choice is either Mac or Windows... 

Because to actually comprehend the prior poster's comment about 
if the products are any good or not ... is far too hard to understand.

Of course, some folk are just Sadists, who enjoy getting their eye poked.

-hh

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and pasting
>and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the flecks
>of spittle hitting my face.

Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
products, it shows that choice is not really valued.

HUH?  In what market are there *not* large variations in market-share
among the various products?

I mean, what kind fscking *idiot* and *asshole* would spew such
*obviously* incorrect, night-is-day nonsense, and use it to attack
those who are reasonable and correct?

"Ezekiel" said nothing about his shitty pal's idiocy, of course.
"Ezekiel" thinks that "DFS" is a decent and honest person.  Guffaw.

-- 
'A more equal distribution of usage would prove "choice" is valued the
way you cola idiots bleat about it'  -  DumFSck

On 5/12/2015 10:02 AM, shitv lied:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and pasting
>> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the flecks
>> of spittle hitting my face.
>
> Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
> proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
> claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
> products, it shows that choice is not really valued.


Poor little shitv, always lying and always replying 3rd-party like the 
Chris Ahlstrom man-child.  This time, you silly chickenshit, you're 
taking my words out of context and saying they apply everywhere, when I 
was discussing only the FUBAR Linux distro 'market'.

160+ desktop distros available, but 3 different surveys showed ~90% of 
users choose 1 of only 6 to 8 distros, which proves Linux users don't 
care about having many dozens of distros available, which proves there 
is too much choice, which you said cannot exist.

How about that - the piece of shitv is wrong again.



 > 'A more equal distribution of usage would prove "choice" is valued the
 > way you cola idiots bleat about it' - DFS

Yes.  100% true.

In the Linux distro market, we see a huge concentration of users in a 
tiny number of distros - which proves 'choice' isn't valued as you say 
it is.

Because you're such a fucking moron and hypocrite, you inadvertently 
contradicted yourself and supported me:

shitv Jan 2015: "the top distros have barely changed in YEARS."

heh!

You Linux idiots babble on about having choice, then you glom onto 
Ubuntu or Mint or whatever is the distro currently topping distrowatch. 
  It's a joke.



> HUH?  In what market are there *not* large variations in market-share
> among the various products?
>
> I mean, what kind fscking *idiot* and *asshole* would spew such
> *obviously* incorrect, night-is-day nonsense, and use it to attack
> those who are reasonable and correct?
>
> "Ezekiel" said nothing about his shitty pal's idiocy, of course.
> "Ezekiel" thinks that "DFS" is a decent and honest person.  Guffaw.


Nobody thinks you're decent, or honest, or morally superior, or 
intellectually superior, or whatever idiotic delusion you're spewing today.

On 2015-05-12 10:36 AM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/12/2015 10:02 AM, shitv lied:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and
>>> pasting
>>> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the
>>> flecks
>>> of spittle hitting my face.
>>
>> Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
>> proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
>> claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
>> products, it shows that choice is not really valued.
>
>
> Poor little shitv, always lying and always replying 3rd-party like the
> Chris Ahlstrom man-child.  This time, you silly chickenshit, you're
> taking my words out of context and saying they apply everywhere, when I
> was discussing only the FUBAR Linux distro 'market'.
>
> 160+ desktop distros available, but 3 different surveys showed ~90% of
> users choose 1 of only 6 to 8 distros, which proves Linux users don't
> care about having many dozens of distros available, which proves there
> is too much choice, which you said cannot exist.
>
> How about that - the piece of shitv is wrong again.

I have to admit that I subscribe to this as well. I tend to lean toward 
pure distributions; I don't like anything which is based on something else.

>  > 'A more equal distribution of usage would prove "choice" is valued the
>  > way you cola idiots bleat about it' - DFS
>
> Yes.  100% true.
>
> In the Linux distro market, we see a huge concentration of users in a
> tiny number of distros - which proves 'choice' isn't valued as you say
> it is.
>
> Because you're such a fucking moron and hypocrite, you inadvertently
> contradicted yourself and supported me:
>
> shitv Jan 2015: "the top distros have barely changed in YEARS."
>
> heh!
>
> You Linux idiots babble on about having choice, then you glom onto
> Ubuntu or Mint or whatever is the distro currently topping distrowatch.
>   It's a joke.

What's funny about those two is that they are truly geared toward the 
common man and make every package available by default whereas others 
make the installation process rather difficult and often require you to 
add repositories or build from source to get a package. You would think 
that the "genius" Linux users here would prefer the more complicated but 
cleaner approach.

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

"DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message news:mit334$jfp$1@dont-email.me...
> On 5/12/2015 10:02 AM, shitv lied:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and 
>>> pasting
>>> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the 
>>> flecks
>>> of spittle hitting my face.
>>
>> Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
>> proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
>> claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
>> products, it shows that choice is not really valued.
>
>
> Poor little shitv, always lying and always replying 3rd-party like the 
> Chris Ahlstrom man-child.  This time, you silly chickenshit, you're taking 
> my words out of context and saying they apply everywhere, when I was 
> discussing only the FUBAR Linux distro 'market'.
>
> 160+ desktop distros available, but 3 different surveys showed ~90% of 
> users choose 1 of only 6 to 8 distros, which proves Linux users don't care 
> about having many dozens of distros available, which proves there is too 
> much choice, which you said cannot exist.
>
> How about that - the piece of shitv is wrong again.
>
>

The idiotic claim some turdv makes isn't relevant. There are actual 
behavioural scientists who study this sort of thing for a living and they 
pretty much agree that "too much choice" isn't a good thing.

<quote>
Too much choice, concluded Sheena Iyengar of Columbia University and Mark 
Lepper of Stanford, is demotivating. Others have since come up with similar 
results from experiments with writing pens, gift boxes, coffee and even 
American 401(k) pension plans.

As options multiply, there may be a point at which the effort required to 
obtain enough information to be able to distinguish sensibly between 
alternatives outweighs the benefit to the consumer of the extra choice. �At 
this point�, writes Barry Schwartz in �The Paradox of Choice�, �choice no 
longer liberates, but debilitates. It might even be said to tyrannise.� In 
other words, as Mr Schwartz puts it, �the fact that some choice is good 
doesn't necessarily mean that more choice is better.�

Daniel McFadden, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley, 
says that consumers find too many options troubling because of the �risk of 
misperception and miscalculation, of misunderstanding the available 
alternatives, of misreading one's own tastes, of yielding to a moment's whim 
and regretting it afterwards�, combined with �the stress of information 
acquisition�.
</quote>
http://www.economist.com/node/17723028

Oddly enough.... choice overload is good for "brands" as the same article 
goes on to say:

<quote>
The more that options multiply, the more important brands become. Today, 
when paralysed by bewildering choice, a consumer will often turn to a brand 
that is cleverly marketed to appear to be one that others trust.
</quote>

This makes sense though. When there's so many choices that it's difficult to 
pick, consumers are going to gravitate towards a name brand that they 
recognize and trust.


Not having a clue never stopped the forthing turdv moron from making a 
idiotic claim. Even if the claim can be easily disproven.

-- 
"I have a BSEE.... Negative feedback has many benefits, but "maintaining 
stability" is not one of them. Just the opposite, in fact."
The turdv idiot and his pretend BSEE degree.


"To make systems stable, we use Negative Feedback"
MIT - http://web.mit.edu/jamwno/Public/UAT/Jim_Feedback.ppt


"Since it�s hard to make the op-amp gain stable over all operating 
conditions *negative feedback* is used to **stabilize** the op-amp"
MIT - http://www.mit.edu/~godoy/6098/study/review_all.pdf


"Negative feedback is a central concept in the design of linear amplifiers. 
It enables them to be designed with predictable, precise and **stable** 
performance."
Oxford University - 
http://www-teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk/practical_course/ELManCh14.pdf


"Black used negative feedback, which reduces the gain but makes the 
amplifier insensitive to variations in tube characteristics. This invention 
made it possible to build *stable* amplifiers with linear 
characteristics..."
Princeton University - http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9493.pdf


<quote>
(Caltech)
Negative Feedback
A major breakthrough was invention of the feedback amplifier in 1927 by 
Harold S. Black. Black used negative feedback which reduces the gain but 
makes the amplifier very insensitive to variations in tube characteristics. 
This invention made it possible to build **stable amplifiers** with linear 
characteristics.


Positive Feedback
In a system with positive feedback, the increase in some variable or signal 
leads to a situation in which that quantify is further through its dynamics. 
This has a **destabilizing** effect and is usually accompanied by a 
saturation that limits the growth of the quantity.
</quote>
http://www.cds.caltech.edu/~murray/books/AM05/pdf/am06-complete_16Sep06.pdf




<quote>
If we introduce positive, or regenerative, feedback into an amplifier 
circuit, it has the tendency of creating and sustaining oscillations.

Negative feedback, on the other hand, has a "dampening" effect on an 
amplifier. While positive feedback drives an amplifier circuit toward a 
point of instability (oscillations), negative feedback drives it the 
opposite direction: toward a point of stability.
</quote>
http://openbookproject.net/electricCircuits/Semi/SEMI_4.html#xtocid209015


<quote>
OSCILLATORS

We have already talked about FEEDBACK in terms of NEGATIVE FEEDBACK to 
stabilize a circuit. We will now cover a new term called POSITIVE FEEDBACK - 
it changes the performance of circuit completely. It makes the circuit 
OSCILLATE. Negative feedback "kills" a circuits performance - positive 
feedback makes it oscillate.
</quote>
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/TheTransistorAmplifier/TheTransistorAmplifier-P1.html

On 2015-05-12 2:27 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message news:mit334$jfp$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 5/12/2015 10:02 AM, shitv lied:
>>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>
>>>> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and
>>>> pasting
>>>> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the
>>>> flecks
>>>> of spittle hitting my face.
>>>
>>> Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
>>> proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
>>> claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
>>> products, it shows that choice is not really valued.
>>
>>
>> Poor little shitv, always lying and always replying 3rd-party like the
>> Chris Ahlstrom man-child.  This time, you silly chickenshit, you're taking
>> my words out of context and saying they apply everywhere, when I was
>> discussing only the FUBAR Linux distro 'market'.
>>
>> 160+ desktop distros available, but 3 different surveys showed ~90% of
>> users choose 1 of only 6 to 8 distros, which proves Linux users don't care
>> about having many dozens of distros available, which proves there is too
>> much choice, which you said cannot exist.
>>
>> How about that - the piece of shitv is wrong again.
>>
>>
>
> The idiotic claim some turdv makes isn't relevant. There are actual
> behavioural scientists who study this sort of thing for a living and they
> pretty much agree that "too much choice" isn't a good thing.
>
> <quote>
> Too much choice, concluded Sheena Iyengar of Columbia University and Mark
> Lepper of Stanford, is demotivating. Others have since come up with similar
> results from experiments with writing pens, gift boxes, coffee and even
> American 401(k) pension plans.

Demotivating is an excellent word to describe its effects. Every time I 
try Linux, no matter which distribution I try, I always end up feeling 
like I made the wrong choice because so many others are available. You'd 
think that there would be one distribution for every need but it's more 
like there's one distribution for every person on Earth. How to choose 
which is right for you is unclear and actually rather daunting.

> As options multiply, there may be a point at which the effort required to
> obtain enough information to be able to distinguish sensibly between
> alternatives outweighs the benefit to the consumer of the extra choice. �At
> this point�, writes Barry Schwartz in �The Paradox of Choice�, �choice no
> longer liberates, but debilitates. It might even be said to tyrannise.� In
> other words, as Mr Schwartz puts it, �the fact that some choice is good
> doesn't necessarily mean that more choice is better.�

Exactly. There is no need for so many distributions to cater to the same 
user. If making just one distribution is a bad thing, then why not strip 
it down to a more manageable six and have each of them compete for 
users? History shows that healthy competition makes everything better 
whether it's computing (IBM vs. Apple vs. Atari vs. Amiga), video games 
(Nintendo vs. Sega) or even sports entertainment (WWF vs. WCW in the mid 
90s). However, hundreds of distributions are no longer competing as much 
as they are creating a redundancy problem.

> Daniel McFadden, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley,
> says that consumers find too many options troubling because of the �risk of
> misperception and miscalculation, of misunderstanding the available
> alternatives, of misreading one's own tastes, of yielding to a moment's whim
> and regretting it afterwards�, combined with �the stress of information
> acquisition�.
> </quote>
> http://www.economist.com/node/17723028

Which explain distro-hopping very well.

< snip >

-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

"Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mitld5$gr$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2015-05-12 2:27 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message 
>> news:mit334$jfp$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 5/12/2015 10:02 AM, shitv lied:
>>>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and
>>>>> pasting
>>>>> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the
>>>>> flecks
>>>>> of spittle hitting my face.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
>>>> proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
>>>> claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
>>>> products, it shows that choice is not really valued.
>>>
>>>
>>> Poor little shitv, always lying and always replying 3rd-party like the
>>> Chris Ahlstrom man-child.  This time, you silly chickenshit, you're 
>>> taking
>>> my words out of context and saying they apply everywhere, when I was
>>> discussing only the FUBAR Linux distro 'market'.
>>>
>>> 160+ desktop distros available, but 3 different surveys showed ~90% of
>>> users choose 1 of only 6 to 8 distros, which proves Linux users don't 
>>> care
>>> about having many dozens of distros available, which proves there is too
>>> much choice, which you said cannot exist.
>>>
>>> How about that - the piece of shitv is wrong again.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The idiotic claim some turdv makes isn't relevant. There are actual
>> behavioural scientists who study this sort of thing for a living and they
>> pretty much agree that "too much choice" isn't a good thing.
>>
>> <quote>
>> Too much choice, concluded Sheena Iyengar of Columbia University and Mark
>> Lepper of Stanford, is demotivating. Others have since come up with 
>> similar
>> results from experiments with writing pens, gift boxes, coffee and even
>> American 401(k) pension plans.
>
> Demotivating is an excellent word to describe its effects. Every time I 
> try Linux, no matter which distribution I try, I always end up feeling 
> like I made the wrong choice because so many others are available. You'd 
> think that there would be one distribution for every need but it's more 
> like there's one distribution for every person on Earth. How to choose 
> which is right for you is unclear and actually rather daunting.
>
>> As options multiply, there may be a point at which the effort required to
>> obtain enough information to be able to distinguish sensibly between
>> alternatives outweighs the benefit to the consumer of the extra choice. 
>> �At
>> this point�, writes Barry Schwartz in �The Paradox of Choice�, �choice no
>> longer liberates, but debilitates. It might even be said to tyrannise.� 
>> In
>> other words, as Mr Schwartz puts it, �the fact that some choice is good
>> doesn't necessarily mean that more choice is better.�
>
> Exactly. There is no need for so many distributions to cater to the same 
> user. If making just one distribution is a bad thing, then why not strip 
> it down to a more manageable six and have each of them compete for users? 
> History shows that healthy competition makes everything better whether 
> it's computing (IBM vs. Apple vs. Atari vs. Amiga), video games (Nintendo 
> vs. Sega) or even sports entertainment (WWF vs. WCW in the mid 90s). 
> However, hundreds of distributions are no longer competing as much as they 
> are creating a redundancy problem.

The reality is that there's no way to stop someone from releasing their own 
distro. In some cases it doesn't matter if it's basically the same thing as 
a dozen existing distros. Someone wants their 5 minutes of fame so they 
release yet another distro that doesn't serve any real purpose. That's not 
going to be stopped.

Even though new distros can't be prevented, don't try and convince me that 
more and more choices is always better. Because it's not. To me "meaningful 
choice" is useful but choice simply for the sake of "more choice" is a 
hinderance.


-- 
This reminds me of a Relf classic.

    "Testing is how you know
     if the  code works or not,
     not compile-time warnings."
     -  Jeff Relf

Heh.  One doesn't need to be a pro, to know how stupid that is...


New thread from turdv displaying his ignorance
June 13, 2014
<d6plp958n3o545aqg62banloa9sip3ds6n@4ax.com>

On 2015-05-12 4:01 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
> "Slimer" <slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote in message news:mitld5$gr$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 2015-05-12 2:27 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
>>> news:mit334$jfp$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 5/12/2015 10:02 AM, shitv lied:
>>>>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But now we've done it.  The poor excitable sap will be copying and
>>>>>> pasting
>>>>>> and posting yet another compoast pile here.  I can already feel the
>>>>>> flecks
>>>>>> of spittle hitting my face.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty funny, to have some idiotic liar like "DFS" threatening to post
>>>>> proof of alleged advocate idiocy and lies.  That dumb fsck actually
>>>>> claimed if there are large variations in market-share among various
>>>>> products, it shows that choice is not really valued.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poor little shitv, always lying and always replying 3rd-party like the
>>>> Chris Ahlstrom man-child.  This time, you silly chickenshit, you're
>>>> taking
>>>> my words out of context and saying they apply everywhere, when I was
>>>> discussing only the FUBAR Linux distro 'market'.
>>>>
>>>> 160+ desktop distros available, but 3 different surveys showed ~90% of
>>>> users choose 1 of only 6 to 8 distros, which proves Linux users don't
>>>> care
>>>> about having many dozens of distros available, which proves there is too
>>>> much choice, which you said cannot exist.
>>>>
>>>> How about that - the piece of shitv is wrong again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The idiotic claim some turdv makes isn't relevant. There are actual
>>> behavioural scientists who study this sort of thing for a living and they
>>> pretty much agree that "too much choice" isn't a good thing.
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> Too much choice, concluded Sheena Iyengar of Columbia University and Mark
>>> Lepper of Stanford, is demotivating. Others have since come up with
>>> similar
>>> results from experiments with writing pens, gift boxes, coffee and even
>>> American 401(k) pension plans.
>>
>> Demotivating is an excellent word to describe its effects. Every time I
>> try Linux, no matter which distribution I try, I always end up feeling
>> like I made the wrong choice because so many others are available. You'd
>> think that there would be one distribution for every need but it's more
>> like there's one distribution for every person on Earth. How to choose
>> which is right for you is unclear and actually rather daunting.
>>
>>> As options multiply, there may be a point at which the effort required to
>>> obtain enough information to be able to distinguish sensibly between
>>> alternatives outweighs the benefit to the consumer of the extra choice.
>>> �At
>>> this point�, writes Barry Schwartz in �The Paradox of Choice�, �choice no
>>> longer liberates, but debilitates. It might even be said to tyrannise.�
>>> In
>>> other words, as Mr Schwartz puts it, �the fact that some choice is good
>>> doesn't necessarily mean that more choice is better.�
>>
>> Exactly. There is no need for so many distributions to cater to the same
>> user. If making just one distribution is a bad thing, then why not strip
>> it down to a more manageable six and have each of them compete for users?
>> History shows that healthy competition makes everything better whether
>> it's computing (IBM vs. Apple vs. Atari vs. Amiga), video games (Nintendo
>> vs. Sega) or even sports entertainment (WWF vs. WCW in the mid 90s).
>> However, hundreds of distributions are no longer competing as much as they
>> are creating a redundancy problem.
>
> The reality is that there's no way to stop someone from releasing their own
> distro. In some cases it doesn't matter if it's basically the same thing as
> a dozen existing distros. Someone wants their 5 minutes of fame so they
> release yet another distro that doesn't serve any real purpose. That's not
> going to be stopped.
>
> Even though new distros can't be prevented, don't try and convince me that
> more and more choices is always better. Because it's not. To me "meaningful
> choice" is useful but choice simply for the sake of "more choice" is a
> hinderance.

The only distributions which should exist are the ones which are the 
"originals." Debian, Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, openSUSE, etc.. 
Everything else is just derivative.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 5/12/2015 4:01 PM, Ezekiel wrote:


> The reality is that there's no way to stop someone from releasing their own
> distro. In some cases it doesn't matter if it's basically the same thing as
> a dozen existing distros. Someone wants their 5 minutes of fame so they
> release yet another distro that doesn't serve any real purpose. That's not
> going to be stopped.
>
> Even though new distros can't be prevented, don't try and convince me that
> more and more choices is always better. Because it's not. To me "meaningful
> choice" is useful but choice simply for the sake of "more choice" is a
> hinderance.


Nearly 90% of Linux users stick with 1 of 6-8 desktop distros, out of 
the 160+ available.

3 polls proving it:

http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/253

http://opensource.com/life/14/1/which-version-linux-do-you-use

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/21/6661393/tell-me-why-you-use-linux-everyday

On 5/12/2015 4:11 PM, Slimer wrote:


> The only distributions which should exist are the ones which are the
>  "originals." Debian, Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, openSUSE, etc..

That would make the hobbyware world appear much less chaotic.



> Everything else is just derivative.


A direct result of open source and GPL licensing.

If you look thru this mess http://futurist.se/gldt/ you can find
derivative crapware 5 deep: distro based on a distro based on
a distro based on a distro based on a distro.

Debian / Knoppix / Kurumin / Dizinha / NeoDizinha

Red Hat / Fedora / Moblin2 / MeeGo / Tizen

Red Hat / Fedora / Moblin2 / MeeGo / Mer

Probably more, but they quit tracking them 2.5 years ago, in late 2012.

"DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message news:mitq0c$ifh$1@dont-email.me...
> On 5/12/2015 4:01 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>
>> The reality is that there's no way to stop someone from releasing their 
>> own
>> distro. In some cases it doesn't matter if it's basically the same thing 
>> as
>> a dozen existing distros. Someone wants their 5 minutes of fame so they
>> release yet another distro that doesn't serve any real purpose. That's 
>> not
>> going to be stopped.
>>
>> Even though new distros can't be prevented, don't try and convince me 
>> that
>> more and more choices is always better. Because it's not. To me 
>> "meaningful
>> choice" is useful but choice simply for the sake of "more choice" is a
>> hinderance.
>
>
> Nearly 90% of Linux users stick with 1 of 6-8 desktop distros, out of the 
> 160+ available.
>
> 3 polls proving it:
>
> http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/253
>
> http://opensource.com/life/14/1/which-version-linux-do-you-use
>
> http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/21/6661393/tell-me-why-you-use-linux-everyday
>
>

I believe it. These are the best supported and most popular distros. There's 
really no good reason not to use one of these if someone is an ordinary 
end-user.

That's why I'd say that these half-dozen or so are a "meaningful choice" for 
someone that's looking for a distro. Stuff like RoboLinux (#20) aren't all 
the useful of a choice for anyone.

On 2015-05-12 5:14 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/12/2015 4:11 PM, Slimer wrote:
>
>
>> The only distributions which should exist are the ones which are the
>>  "originals." Debian, Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, openSUSE, etc..
>
> That would make the hobbyware world appear much less chaotic.

It would also make the bugs easier to fix as there would be fewer 
configurations to deal with. That's what made Windows so complicated to 
fix and why Macs had an advantage for so long. By creating so many 
different distributions, the developers are indeed giving a great deal 
of freedom to current and potential users but also creating unsolvable 
problems.

>> Everything else is just derivative.
>
>
> A direct result of open source and GPL licensing.
>
> If you look thru this mess http://futurist.se/gldt/ you can find
> derivative crapware 5 deep: distro based on a distro based on
> a distro based on a distro based on a distro.
>
> Debian / Knoppix / Kurumin / Dizinha / NeoDizinha
>
> Red Hat / Fedora / Moblin2 / MeeGo / Tizen
>
> Red Hat / Fedora / Moblin2 / MeeGo / Mer
>
> Probably more, but they quit tracking them 2.5 years ago, in late 2012.

It's anarchy.


-- 
Slimer
Encrypt.

On 5/8/2015 8:14 AM, shitv wrote:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> And the OP is one of these:
>>
>>    2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>>
>>    Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>>    insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to COLA
>>    containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>>    Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>>    Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
>>
>> I.e. an asshole.
>
> A mentally-ill asshole.
>
> Free Linux is a great choice for a lot of people, and the corporate
> loyalists just *hate* that it exists as a viable alternative, giving
> the masses so much freedom and control of their destiny.


X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564  (Windows only)

Good one, hypocrite!



> Sure, most people (on the desktop) are using one of the big two
> proprietary operating systems.  But, if things get too bad, GNU/Linux
> is there, and ready.

Things won't ever get that bad.

Regardless, Linux isn't nearly ready.  For example, Linux Mint 17.1 
Cinnamon has now video-crashed 4x on me, in the space of ~15 hours of use.

"Linux just works"
"Boy is Microsoft doomed"

On 2015-06-11 8:16 AM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/8/2015 8:14 AM, shitv wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> And the OP is one of these:
>>>
>>>    2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>>>
>>>    Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>>>    insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles
>>> to COLA
>>>    containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to acceptance of
>>>    Linux by the general computing public. For more information see
>>>    Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
>>>
>>> I.e. an asshole.
>>
>> A mentally-ill asshole.
>>
>> Free Linux is a great choice for a lot of people, and the corporate
>> loyalists just *hate* that it exists as a viable alternative, giving
>> the masses so much freedom and control of their destiny.
>
>
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564  (Windows only)
>
> Good one, hypocrite!

He just never learns, does he? I believe that he said he uses Forte 
Agent because he's on a Windows machine at work which indicates that he 
roams USENET rather than do his actual job. What an excellent employee!

>> Sure, most people (on the desktop) are using one of the big two
>> proprietary operating systems.  But, if things get too bad, GNU/Linux
>> is there, and ready.
>
> Things won't ever get that bad.
>
> Regardless, Linux isn't nearly ready.  For example, Linux Mint 17.1
> Cinnamon has now video-crashed 4x on me, in the space of ~15 hours of use.
>
> "Linux just works"
> "Boy is Microsoft doomed"

I'm gearing up to install Linux for the first time on my laptop. 
Apparently, I can look forward to a shimmering image, an illuminated 
keyboard which doesn't illuminate at all and wireless which doesn't 
enable at all.

But Linux _just_ _works_ so I'll be fine.


-- 
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.

DFS wrote:

> On 5/8/2015 8:14 AM, shitv wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> And the OP is one of these:
>>>
>>>    2.2.4 Anti-Linux Propagandists
>>>
>>>    Anti-Linux Propagandists are those who regularly post argumentative,
>>>    insulting, distracting, untrue, and generally unpleasant articles to
>>>    COLA containing propaganda designed slow and even prevent to
>>>    acceptance of Linux by the general computing public. For more
>>>    information see Anti-Linux Propagandists and Trolls.
>>>
>>> I.e. an asshole.
>>
>> A mentally-ill asshole.
>>
>> Free Linux is a great choice for a lot of people, and the corporate
>> loyalists just *hate* that it exists as a viable alternative, giving
>> the masses so much freedom and control of their destiny.
> 
> 
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564  (Windows only)
> 
> Good one, hypocrite!
> 
> 
> 
>> Sure, most people (on the desktop) are using one of the big two
>> proprietary operating systems.  But, if things get too bad, GNU/Linux
>> is there, and ready.
> 
> Things won't ever get that bad.
> 
> Regardless, Linux isn't nearly ready.  For example, Linux Mint 17.1
> Cinnamon has now video-crashed 4x on me, in the space of ~15 hours of use.
> 
> "Linux just works"
> "Boy is Microsoft doomed"

The herd should force Turdv to use linux.  That way we won't see him post in 
here.