f



Windows Screws Up UNIX and Linux by De^H^H^H^HGN

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Windows Newlines Will Kill Your Linux Scripts

,----[ Quote ]
| What’s going on is that you really do have a 
| fatal error in your code, and it’s an error 
| that you can’t see. In fact, it’s invisible. 
| The error is that you have uploaded a file that
| you created on a Windows machine.
`----

http://hackingthevalley.com/2011/06/21/windows-newlines-will-kill-your-linux-scripts/

Cancer in your shell, cancer on the Web...
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
6/23/2011 9:57:08 AM
comp.os.linux.advocacy 124139 articles. 3 followers. Post Follow

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Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Windows Newlines Will Kill Your Linux Scripts
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
>| What???s going on is that you really do have a 
>| fatal error in your code, and it???s an error 
>| that you can???t see. In fact, it???s invisible. 
>| The error is that you have uploaded a file that
>| you created on a Windows machine.
> `----
>
> http://hackingthevalley.com/2011/06/21/windows-newlines-will-kill-your-linux-scripts/
>
> Cancer in your shell, cancer on the Web...

Nah, just an unfortunate line-ending convention with DOS inheriting a way to
move the teletype striker back and downward.  Mac has yet another
line-ending convention.

Windows software (except for Notepad) will handle the UNIX convention (and
the forward slash) just fine.  You can have a subversion hook clean up the
line endings on check-in.

Vim will handle the files either way, suppressing the "Ctrl-M" characters.

Except when someone edits just part of the file, in which case you'll see
some of them.

But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.

-- 
Another war ... must it always be so?  How many comrades have we lost
in this way? ...  Obedience.  Duty.  Death, and more death ...
		-- Romulan Commander, "Balance of Terror", stardate 1709.2
0
ahlstromc8504 (8208)
6/23/2011 10:39:43 AM
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____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Thursday 23 Jun 2011 11:39 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> Windows Newlines Will Kill Your Linux Scripts
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>| What???s going on is that you really do have a
>>| fatal error in your code, and it???s an error
>>| that you can???t see. In fact, it???s invisible.
>>| The error is that you have uploaded a file that
>>| you created on a Windows machine.
>> `----
>>
>> http://hackingthevalley.com/2011/06/21/windows-newlines-will-kill-your-linux-scripts/
>>
>> Cancer in your shell, cancer on the Web...
> 
> Nah, just an unfortunate line-ending convention with DOS inheriting a way to
> move the teletype striker back and downward.  Mac has yet another
> line-ending convention.
> 
> Windows software (except for Notepad) will handle the UNIX convention (and
> the forward slash) just fine.  You can have a subversion hook clean up the
> line endings on check-in.
> 
> Vim will handle the files either way, suppressing the "Ctrl-M" characters.
> 
> Except when someone edits just part of the file, in which case you'll see
> some of them.
> 
> But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
> line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.

Why even keep this broken legacy? It only confuses people.

- -- 
		~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com  | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@ekiga.net (24/7)
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newsgroups3 (79677)
6/23/2011 10:45:21 AM
Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:

> Why even keep this broken legacy?

For the same reason we "keep" this broken OS called Windows: it's
protected by Microsoft's monopoly.

I was recently reminded of Microsoft's abuse of another standard, the
RFC 3676 message block delimiter, which apparently causes Windows users
a lot of problems when it's correctly implemented by correspondents'
clients, due to the proprietary and arbitrary way various Microsoft
mail/news clients handle it:

http://code.google.com/p/k9mail/issues/detail?id=1683#c2

Of course the list is endless. Is there any standard Microsoft /doesn't/
break?

-- 
K.                           | "The poor have flat-screen TVs."
http://slated.org            | ~ Libertarian propagandist Keith
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky   | Curtis, explaining why he thinks
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 31 days  | we shouldn't tax the rich.
0
usenet3690 (8688)
6/23/2011 11:54:33 AM
Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

>>>
>>> http://hackingthevalley.com/2011/06/21/windows-newlines-will-kill-your-linux-scripts/
>>>
>>> Cancer in your shell, cancer on the Web...
>> 
>> Nah, just an unfortunate line-ending convention with DOS inheriting a way to
>> move the teletype striker back and downward.  Mac has yet another
>> line-ending convention.
>> 
>> Windows software (except for Notepad) will handle the UNIX convention (and
>> the forward slash) just fine.  You can have a subversion hook clean up the
>> line endings on check-in.
>> 
>> Vim will handle the files either way, suppressing the "Ctrl-M" characters.
>> 
>> Except when someone edits just part of the file, in which case you'll see
>> some of them.
>> 
>> But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
>> line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.
>
> Why even keep this broken legacy?

The code is not under the control of the community.

> It only confuses people.

You are kind of right about the confusion, though.  One can announce, loudly
and repetitively, that #include statements should use "/", not "\" in the
path, and that the "/" will also work with Microsoft's C run-time library,
and you *still* get boneheads who will litter the code with needless "\"
characters.

We've even had people get confused about the difference between the "\\"
needed in C code and the "\" needed for paths in, say, a database or text
file, so that we end up seeing paths like:

   C:\\app\\directory\\path

in configuration files, and it persists because the Microsoft C run-time
will accept a double slash just fine.

-- 
  May I ask a question?
0
ahlstromc8504 (8208)
6/23/2011 12:14:23 PM
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____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Thursday 23 Jun 2011 13:14 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>>>>
>>>> http://hackingthevalley.com/2011/06/21/windows-newlines-will-kill-your-linux-scripts/
>>>>
>>>> Cancer in your shell, cancer on the Web...
>>> 
>>> Nah, just an unfortunate line-ending convention with DOS inheriting a way to
>>> move the teletype striker back and downward.  Mac has yet another
>>> line-ending convention.
>>> 
>>> Windows software (except for Notepad) will handle the UNIX convention (and
>>> the forward slash) just fine.  You can have a subversion hook clean up the
>>> line endings on check-in.
>>> 
>>> Vim will handle the files either way, suppressing the "Ctrl-M" characters.
>>> 
>>> Except when someone edits just part of the file, in which case you'll see
>>> some of them.
>>> 
>>> But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
>>> line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.
>>
>> Why even keep this broken legacy?
> 
> The code is not under the control of the community.
> 
>> It only confuses people.
> 
> You are kind of right about the confusion, though.  One can announce, loudly
> and repetitively, that #include statements should use "/", not "\" in the
> path, and that the "/" will also work with Microsoft's C run-time library,
> and you *still* get boneheads who will litter the code with needless "\"
> characters.
> 
> We've even had people get confused about the difference between the "\\"
> needed in C code and the "\" needed for paths in, say, a database or text
> file, so that we end up seeing paths like:
> 
>    C:\\app\\directory\\path
> 
> in configuration files, and it persists because the Microsoft C run-time
> will accept a double slash just fine.

Slashes are at least visible. A few years ago I wasted about 3 hours trying
to figure out why I couldn't compile my TeX document, finally
realising that it was with DOS-style newlines.

- -- 
		~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com  | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@ekiga.net (24/7)
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
6/23/2011 1:06:23 PM
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____/ Homer on Thursday 23 Jun 2011 12:54 : \____

> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
> 
>> Why even keep this broken legacy?
> 
> For the same reason we "keep" this broken OS called Windows: it's
> protected by Microsoft's monopoly.
> 
> I was recently reminded of Microsoft's abuse of another standard, the
> RFC 3676 message block delimiter, which apparently causes Windows users
> a lot of problems when it's correctly implemented by correspondents'
> clients, due to the proprietary and arbitrary way various Microsoft
> mail/news clients handle it:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/k9mail/issues/detail?id=1683#c2
> 
> Of course the list is endless. Is there any standard Microsoft /doesn't/
> break?

In OOXML, Microsoft even 'standardised' the bugs (e.g. fake leap year hack).

- -- 
		~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com  | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@ekiga.net (24/7)
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
6/23/2011 1:07:09 PM
"Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
news:1529548.uA9gRusQuh@schestowitz.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Windows Newlines Will Kill Your Linux Scripts
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | What's going on is that you really do have a
> | fatal error in your code, and it's an error
> | that you can't see. In fact, it's invisible.
> | The error is that you have uploaded a file that
> | you created on a Windows machine.
> `----
>

somehow both OSX and Windows can manage to deal with different line endings.

yet linux is too stupid to know how to handle with two very common types of 
line endings without choking and puking.




0
fink6586 (5)
6/23/2011 1:12:01 PM
"Fredrick Finkleton Sr." <fink@nospam.com> writes:

> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
> news:1529548.uA9gRusQuh@schestowitz.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Windows Newlines Will Kill Your Linux Scripts
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | What's going on is that you really do have a
>> | fatal error in your code, and it's an error
>> | that you can't see. In fact, it's invisible.
>> | The error is that you have uploaded a file that
>> | you created on a Windows machine.
>> `----
>>
>
> somehow both OSX and Windows can manage to deal with different line endings.
>
> yet linux is too stupid to know how to handle with two very common types of 
> line endings without choking and puking.

Well its all down to people writing apps that dont know any better.

The established apps lile vim and emacs cope just fine.

Its called "legacy" and it happens.

0
hadronquark (21814)
6/23/2011 1:14:29 PM
Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> writes:

> "Fredrick Finkleton Sr." <fink@nospam.com> writes:
>
>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
>> news:1529548.uA9gRusQuh@schestowitz.com...
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Windows Newlines Will Kill Your Linux Scripts
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | What's going on is that you really do have a
>>> | fatal error in your code, and it's an error
>>> | that you can't see. In fact, it's invisible.
>>> | The error is that you have uploaded a file that
>>> | you created on a Windows machine.
>>> `----
>>>
>>
>> somehow both OSX and Windows can manage to deal with different line endings.
>>
>> yet linux is too stupid to know how to handle with two very common types of 
>> line endings without choking and puking.
>
> Well its all down to people writing apps that dont know any better.
>
> The established apps lile vim and emacs cope just fine.
>
> Its called "legacy" and it happens.

As usual "advocates" run from the facts. I saw that Chris A put Roy an
co right on this too....
0
hadronquark (21814)
6/24/2011 4:39:49 AM
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Roy Schestowitz wrote this:
> 
>>> But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
>>> line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.
>>
>> Why even keep this broken legacy?
> 
> The code is not under the control of the community.

Microsoft if they continue to keep within tradition, is a for profit
entity. They won't fix something that doesn't affect their profit. That
includes security issues, IMHO.

Solution is simple. Don't use Windows to develop software running on Linux.

-- 
HPT

0
hpt (1981)
6/24/2011 10:17:54 AM
High Plains Thumper wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote this:
>> 
>>>> But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
>>>> line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.
>>>
>>> Why even keep this broken legacy?
>> 
>> The code is not under the control of the community.
>
> Microsoft if they continue to keep within tradition, is a for profit
> entity. They won't fix something that doesn't affect their profit. That
> includes security issues, IMHO.
>
> Solution is simple. Don't use Windows to develop software running on Linux.

Roy's OthelloMaster software is a good case in point.  Not only are the
files CR-LF-ended, the files all have the executable bit set, which happens
when you let Windows touch 'em (although the latest Visual Studio now seems
to leave the executable bits off... or maybe it is an improvement to
the shared folder feature of VirtualBox.) I need to ask him why
there are no project or makefiles in it.

But, personally, while I *greatly* prefer developing in Linux using basic
tools (they're just so fscking FAST), I also like making sure the code
builds and runs in Windows.  And vice versa, for projects where Windows is
the actual target.

It's a fruitful way to uncover hidden assumptions that lead to bugs.

-- 
egrep patterns are full regular expressions; it uses a fast deterministic
algorithm that sometimes needs exponential space.
		-- unix manuals
0
ahlstromc8504 (8208)
6/24/2011 10:57:06 AM
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Hash: SHA1

____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 24 Jun 2011 11:57 : \____

> High Plains Thumper wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote this:
>>> 
>>>>> But even Visual Studio now knows the difference and will ask you which
>>>>> line-ending convention you'd like it to use when saving the file.
>>>>
>>>> Why even keep this broken legacy?
>>> 
>>> The code is not under the control of the community.
>>
>> Microsoft if they continue to keep within tradition, is a for profit
>> entity. They won't fix something that doesn't affect their profit. That
>> includes security issues, IMHO.
>>
>> Solution is simple. Don't use Windows to develop software running on Linux.
> 
> Roy's OthelloMaster software is a good case in point.  Not only are the
> files CR-LF-ended, the files all have the executable bit set, which happens
> when you let Windows touch 'em (although the latest Visual Studio now seems
> to leave the executable bits off... or maybe it is an improvement to
> the shared folder feature of VirtualBox.) I need to ask him why
> there are no project or makefiles in it.
> 
> But, personally, while I *greatly* prefer developing in Linux using basic
> tools (they're just so fscking FAST), I also like making sure the code
> builds and runs in Windows.  And vice versa, for projects where Windows is
> the actual target.
> 
> It's a fruitful way to uncover hidden assumptions that lead to bugs.

IIRC, there was a compile script in it.

- -- 
		~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com  | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@ekiga.net (24/7)
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newsgroups3 (79677)
6/24/2011 3:22:11 PM
Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 24 Jun 2011 11:57 : \____
>
>> Roy's OthelloMaster software is a good case in point.  Not only are the
>> files CR-LF-ended, the files all have the executable bit set, which happens
>> when you let Windows touch 'em (although the latest Visual Studio now seems
>> to leave the executable bits off... or maybe it is an improvement to
>> the shared folder feature of VirtualBox.) I need to ask him why
>> there are no project or makefiles in it.
>
> IIRC, there was a compile script in it.

Ah, I see it, the Perl script called "cogl".

By the way, I hope you don't mind my jesty jousting with you.  :-)

-- 
The use of money is all the advantage there is to having money.
		-- B. Franklin
0
ahlstromc8504 (8208)
6/24/2011 4:45:08 PM
Am Thu, 23 Jun 2011 09:12:01 -0400 schrieb Fredrick Finkleton Sr.:

> somehow both OSX and Windows can manage to deal with different line
> endings.
> yet linux is too stupid to know how to handle with two very common types
> of line endings without choking and puking.

So if "Linux" is having problems with line endings how is it that the 
Windows 7 notepad doesn't recognize it as a line ending when I write the 
\n character to a file, say from a java program? Is \n not supposed to be 
a line ending?
0
chrisdhaag (716)
6/24/2011 4:51:49 PM
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____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 24 Jun 2011 17:45 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 24 Jun 2011 11:57 : \____
>>
>>> Roy's OthelloMaster software is a good case in point.  Not only are the
>>> files CR-LF-ended, the files all have the executable bit set, which happens
>>> when you let Windows touch 'em (although the latest Visual Studio now seems
>>> to leave the executable bits off... or maybe it is an improvement to
>>> the shared folder feature of VirtualBox.) I need to ask him why
>>> there are no project or makefiles in it.
>>
>> IIRC, there was a compile script in it.
> 
> Ah, I see it, the Perl script called "cogl".
> 
> By the way, I hope you don't mind my jesty jousting with you.  :-)

Compile GL IIRC. I wrote it when I was 20; didn't have good practices back then.

- -- 
		~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com  | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@ekiga.net (24/7)
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
6/24/2011 5:08:47 PM
"Chris" <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> wrote in message 
news:iu2fb5$9va$4@inf2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de...
> Am Thu, 23 Jun 2011 09:12:01 -0400 schrieb Fredrick Finkleton Sr.:
>
>> somehow both OSX and Windows can manage to deal with different line
>> endings.
>> yet linux is too stupid to know how to handle with two very common types
>> of line endings without choking and puking.
>
> So if "Linux" is having problems with line endings how is it that the
> Windows 7 notepad doesn't recognize it as a line ending when I write the
> \n character to a file, say from a java program? Is \n not supposed to be
> a line ending?

here is a clue for you newbie - notepad may show the file strangely but it 
still works cuz you can always scroll or search for whatever you are looking 
for.

but with linux hobbyware acording to spamowitz - "Windows Newlines Will Kill 
Your Linux Scripts"

get it now? notepad does not get killed the same way a simple newline will 
KILL a hobbyware script.





0
pop5665 (14)
6/24/2011 6:21:36 PM
On 6/24/2011 2:21 PM, Arkadi Popov wrote:

<snipped>

BWAAAAAAAA it up your ass with a twist.

0
big803 (36)
6/24/2011 6:33:19 PM
Am Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:21:36 -0400 schrieb Arkadi Popov:

> here is a clue for you newbie - notepad may show the file strangely but
> it still works cuz you can always scroll or search for whatever you are
> looking for.

Wat.

But here is a question: Why don't you post with your usual nickname? Are 
you ashamed of what you write?

(Will you really tell me that I shouldn't assume that?)

> but with linux hobbyware acording to spamowitz - "Windows Newlines Will
> Kill Your Linux Scripts"

Come on, how many people are there calling Roy "spamowitz"?

By the way: 8 of 10 posts of this nickname are pure spam.

> gett it now? notepad does not get killed the same way a simple newline
> will KILL a hobbyware script.

I'm not sure if a batch script with "wrong" line endings will run well on 
Windows. Can you test it?
0
chrisdhaag (716)
6/24/2011 7:22:53 PM
Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 24 Jun 2011 17:45 : \____
>
>> Ah, I see it, the Perl script called "cogl".
>> 
>> By the way, I hope you don't mind my jesty jousting with you.  :-)
>
> Compile GL IIRC. I wrote it when I was 20; didn't have good practices back then.

I completely understand.  I've been going over old code, upgrading it remove
warnings in VS 2010 (and gcc).  Some of my oldest code is... embarrassing to
me.

-- 
Death wish, n.:
	The only wish that always comes true, whether or not one wishes it to.
0
ahlstromc8504 (8208)
6/24/2011 11:41:24 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 25 Jun 2011 00:41 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 24 Jun 2011 17:45 : \____
>>
>>> Ah, I see it, the Perl script called "cogl".
>>> 
>>> By the way, I hope you don't mind my jesty jousting with you.  :-)
>>
>> Compile GL IIRC. I wrote it when I was 20; didn't have good practices back
>> then.
> 
> I completely understand.  I've been going over old code, upgrading it remove
> warnings in VS 2010 (and gcc).  Some of my oldest code is... embarrassing to
> me.

I compiled this for Windows by quickly tossing all the code into one file in VS (not
my machine, I didn't use Windows) and then making a .EXE about 5-10 times slower than
the equivalent Linux binary for Red Hat (no Fedora at the time). It only took a couple
of hours and I hadn't used VS or Windows for this program before that. I realised
that unless I make this .EXE my friends wouldn't be able to give it a quick run. That
Windows compilation came much later, around the time I put the code in SourceForge.

- -- 
		~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com  | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@ekiga.net (24/7)
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAk4FJWcACgkQU4xAY3RXLo45vQCbBOyFwiTH4phcoBTLHdbTFa8z
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
6/25/2011 12:01:42 AM
In article <itv5ak$j6g$5@dont-email.me>,
 Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote:
> 
> Nah, just an unfortunate line-ending convention with DOS inheriting a way to
> move the teletype striker back and downward.  Mac has yet another
> line-ending convention.

Mac uses newline, just like Unix (which is not surprising, since OS X is 
a certified Unix). Before OS X it used carriage return.

CRLF is generally the standard of the internet--nearly every standard 
line-oriented protocol specifies CRLF--so it is something software 
should be prepared to deal with. For example, HTTP, SMTP, FTP, IRC, 
POP3, and IMAP all specify that lines are terminated with CRLF.

CRLF was the standard on TOPS-10, RT-11, and most other early non-Unix 
ASCII systems, CP/M (which is how it got to DOS and then Windows and 
OS/2), Atari ST, Symbian and Palm.

CR was the standard on 8-bit Commodore, Acorn, TRS-80, Apple II, Mac OS 
up to 9, and OS-9.

LF was the standard on Multics and Unix, BeOS, Amiga, and RISC OS.

-- 
--Tim Smith
0
reply_in_group (13194)
6/26/2011 6:46:33 AM
Tim Smith wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> In article <itv5ak$j6g$5@dont-email.me>,
>  Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Nah, just an unfortunate line-ending convention with DOS inheriting a way to
>> move the teletype striker back and downward.  Mac has yet another
>> line-ending convention.
>
> Mac uses newline, just like Unix (which is not surprising, since OS X is 
> a certified Unix). Before OS X it used carriage return.

Thanks for the correction, Timmy.

> CRLF is generally the standard of the internet--nearly every standard 
> line-oriented protocol specifies CRLF--so it is something software 
> should be prepared to deal with. For example, HTTP, SMTP, FTP, IRC, 
> POP3, and IMAP all specify that lines are terminated with CRLF.
>
> CRLF was the standard on TOPS-10, RT-11, and most other early non-Unix 
> ASCII systems, CP/M (which is how it got to DOS and then Windows and 
> OS/2), Atari ST, Symbian and Palm.
>
> CR was the standard on 8-bit Commodore, Acorn, TRS-80, Apple II, Mac OS 
> up to 9, and OS-9.
>
> LF was the standard on Multics and Unix, BeOS, Amiga, and RISC OS.

A byte saved is a byte earned.

-- 
When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite.
		-- Winston Churchill, on formal declarations of war
0
ahlstromc8504 (8208)
6/26/2011 1:09:43 PM
Reply:

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