FAT16 FS type on USB stick

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I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
upgrading.

I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.

$fdisk sda

displays

        ID:  6
System:  FAT16

for this stick.

Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
stick to backup /home?

Thanks & Best Regards,

Vwaju
New York City
0
Reply slack (4) 12/20/2009 9:14:14 PM

See related articles to this posting

Vwaju <slack@rcn.com> wrote:
> I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
> upgrading.
> 
> I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
> 
> $fdisk sda
> 
> displays
> 
>        ID:  6
> System:  FAT16
> 
> for this stick.
> 
> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
> stick to backup /home?
> 
> Thanks & Best Regards,
> 
> Vwaju
> New York City

Use tar or cpio or dump, something *designed* to do a backup, not cp.

I'd recomend tar for your case, it's the simplest to use for both the
backup & restore.

	Jerry
0
Reply Jerry 12/20/2009 9:53:56 PM


On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:

> I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
> upgrading.
> 
> I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
> 
> $fdisk sda
> 
> displays
> 
>         ID:  6
> System:  FAT16
> 
> for this stick.
> 
> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
> stick to backup /home?
> 
> Thanks & Best Regards,
> 
> Vwaju
> New York City

Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use FAT16, 
if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows box then 
format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system. Linux will 
mount the stick with just about any file system but there is no reason to 
use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
 
0
Reply General 12/20/2009 9:58:58 PM

On Dec 20, 4:58=A0pm, General Schvantzkoph <schvantzk...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:
> > I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
> > upgrading.
>
> > I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
>
> > $fdisk sda
>
> > displays
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ID: =A06
> > System: =A0FAT16
>
> > for this stick.
>
> > Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
> > stick to backup /home?
>
> > Thanks & Best Regards,
>
> > Vwaju
> > New York City
>
> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use FAT16,
> if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows box then
> format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system. Linux will
> mount the stick with just about any file system but there is no reason to
> use an inefficient one if you don't have to.

Thanks for your helpful comments, General.  gparted is not in the
Slackware 12.2 installation.  Couldn't I use fdisk?  (Or is there
another utility that I could/should use?)

Best, Vwaju
0
Reply Vwaju 12/20/2009 10:34:11 PM

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:34:11 -0800, Vwaju wrote:

> On Dec 20, 4:58 pm, General Schvantzkoph <schvantzk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:
>> > I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
>> > upgrading.
>>
>> > I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
>>
>> > $fdisk sda
>>
>> > displays
>>
>> >         ID:  6
>> > System:  FAT16
>>
>> > for this stick.
>>
>> > Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>> > stick to backup /home?
>>
>> > Thanks & Best Regards,
>>
>> > Vwaju
>> > New York City
>>
>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
>> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
>> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is
>> no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
> 
> Thanks for your helpful comments, General.  gparted is not in the
> Slackware 12.2 installation.  Couldn't I use fdisk?  (Or is there
> another utility that I could/should use?)

	I have been using fdisk to format USB sticks for some time now, 
without any problems. I use ext2, rather than ext3, and I do backups on 
my USB sticks with rsync.


0
Reply Harold 12/21/2009 12:59:37 AM

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:34:11 -0800, Vwaju wrote:

> On Dec 20, 4:58 pm, General Schvantzkoph <schvantzk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:
>> > I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
>> > upgrading.
>>
>> > I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
>>
>> > $fdisk sda
>>
>> > displays
>>
>> >         ID:  6
>> > System:  FAT16
>>
>> > for this stick.
>>
>> > Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>> > stick to backup /home?
>>
>> > Thanks & Best Regards,
>>
>> > Vwaju
>> > New York City
>>
>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
>> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
>> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is
>> no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
> 
> Thanks for your helpful comments, General.  gparted is not in the
> Slackware 12.2 installation.  Couldn't I use fdisk?  (Or is there
> another utility that I could/should use?)
> 
> Best, Vwaju

fdisk is fine, so is regular parted, or you could just use mke2fs.
0
Reply General 12/21/2009 2:42:36 AM

General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:34:11 -0800, Vwaju wrote:
>
>> On Dec 20, 4:58�pm, General Schvantzkoph <schvantzk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:
>>> > I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
>>> > upgrading.
>>>
>>> > I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
>>>
>>> > $fdisk sda
>>>
>>> > displays
>>>
>>> > � � � � ID: �6
>>> > System: �FAT16
>>>
>>> > for this stick.
>>>
>>> > Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>>> > stick to backup /home?
>>>
>>> > Thanks & Best Regards,
>>>
>>> > Vwaju
>>> > New York City
>>>
>>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
>>> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
>>> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is
>>> no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
>> 
>> Thanks for your helpful comments, General.  gparted is not in the
>> Slackware 12.2 installation.  Couldn't I use fdisk?  (Or is there
>> another utility that I could/should use?)
>> 
>> Best, Vwaju
>
> fdisk is fine, so is regular parted, or you could just use mke2fs.

Though, of course, partioning it and setting the partition type is one
operation while putting a file system on it is another.  So, for
instance, you would use fdisk to repartition it, and then e2fsck to put
the file system on.
-- 
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
0
Reply Joe 12/21/2009 6:46:28 AM

On December 20, 2009 16:14, in comp.os.linux.hardware, slack@rcn.com wrote:

> I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
> upgrading.
> 
> I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
> 
> $fdisk sda
> 
> displays
> 
>         ID:  6
> System:  FAT16
> 
> for this stick.
> 
> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
> stick to backup /home?

No, but you /can/.

First and foremost, you need a filesystem that supports Unix file attributes
(UID, GID, permission bits, etc.). You can either
  - format the USB stick with a UNIXish filesystem (ext2, minix, ...) or
  - format a loopback file on the FAT16 fs with a unixish filesystem
Make this choice first.

If you choose to wipe the entire USB stick, then you can chose to either
  - partition the USB stick, or
  - use the entire USB stick, unpartitioned

If you choose to partition the entire USB stick, then you will probably want
to flag the Linux fs partitions with the LINUX partition ID before you
format the partition with your UNIXish filesystem.

If you choose to use the entire USB stick, unpartitioned, then you format
the entire device with your UNIXish filesystem, because in such a
situation, there /is no/ partition type.

If you choose to use a loopback file on the USB stick, then you only need to
format the file with the UNIXish filesystem; your partition type (if there
is one) should remain FAT16

HTH
-- 
Lew Pitcher
Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training   | Registered Linux User #112576
Me: http://pitcher.digitalfreehold.ca/ | Just Linux: http://justlinux.ca/
----------      Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.         ------


0
Reply Lew 12/21/2009 3:51:15 PM

In article <7p7l12F5niU1@mid.individual.net>, schvantzkoph@yahoo.com
(General Schvantzkoph) writes:

> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:

<snip>

>> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>> stick to backup /home?
>
> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there
> is no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.

This might be a bit off-topic, but has anyone noticed reliability
problems when adding large files to a FAT16-formatted memory stick?
I have a 2GB stick which I use to back up files from my Windows system
at work; I've found that if I write a lot more data (several hundred
megabytes) to a partially filled stick from a Windows box, some of the
files will often encounter strange (and unrecoverable) errors when I
try to read them back.  At first I thought that my stick was going bad
and got another one - but the second one did exactly the same thing.
The only way I can get reliable results is to format the stick each
time I write a lot of data to it, although I can add a few small files
later without problems.

I now suspect that the problem is either in the Windows drivers,
or is due to some design defect in the FAT16 file system.  My
Linux boxes can read and write the FAT16 sticks with no trouble,
although I continue to avoid adding large amounts of data to a
partly-filled stick.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?  Is it another example
of typical Microsoft quality control?

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

0
Reply Charlie 12/21/2009 4:59:07 PM

On 21 Dec 09 08:59:07 -0800, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>In article <7p7l12F5niU1@mid.individual.net>, schvantzkoph@yahoo.com
>(General Schvantzkoph) writes:

>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:

><snip>

>>> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>>> stick to backup /home?
>>
>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
>> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
>> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there
>> is no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.

>This might be a bit off-topic, but has anyone noticed reliability
>problems when adding large files to a FAT16-formatted memory stick?
>I have a 2GB stick which I use to back up files from my Windows system
>at work; I've found that if I write a lot more data (several hundred
>megabytes) to a partially filled stick from a Windows box, some of the
>files will often encounter strange (and unrecoverable) errors when I
>try to read them back.  At first I thought that my stick was going bad
>and got another one - but the second one did exactly the same thing.
>The only way I can get reliable results is to format the stick each
>time I write a lot of data to it, although I can add a few small files
>later without problems.

>I now suspect that the problem is either in the Windows drivers,
>or is due to some design defect in the FAT16 file system.  My
>Linux boxes can read and write the FAT16 sticks with no trouble,
>although I continue to avoid adding large amounts of data to a
>partly-filled stick.

>Has anyone else encountered this problem?  Is it another example
>of typical Microsoft quality control?

FAT is an amazing piece of shit.  It should never have been used on
anything larger than 180K.  It takes nothing to corrupt it.
It can be reliable if your hardware is absolutely perfect.
0
Reply AZ 12/21/2009 5:33:42 PM

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:58:58 +0000, General Schvantzkoph wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:14:14 -0800, Vwaju wrote:
> 
>> I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
>> upgrading.
>> 
>> I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
>> 
>> $fdisk sda
>> 
>> displays
>> 
>>         ID:  6
>> System:  FAT16
>> 
>> for this stick.
>> 
>> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>> stick to backup /home?
>> 
>> Thanks & Best Regards,
>> 
>> Vwaju
>> New York City
> 
> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows box
> then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system. Linux
> will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is no
> reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.

Also, you won't need journaling.  So, don't use the -j option when 
formatting the USB stick to ext3.


Stef
0
Reply Stefan 12/21/2009 6:23:47 PM

Stefan Patric wrote:

[putolin]

>> 
>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows box
>> then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system. Linux
>> will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is no
>> reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
> 
> Also, you won't need journaling.  So, don't use the -j option when
> formatting the USB stick to ext3.
> 
> 

That would be formatting the stick to ext2... not ext3


0
Reply GangGreene 12/22/2009 1:19:02 AM

On 2009-12-21, Lew Pitcher <lpitcher@teksavvy.com> wrote:

> On December 20, 2009 16:14, in comp.os.linux.hardware, slack@rcn.com wrote:
>
>> I want to backup /home on my Slackware Linux 12.2 installation before
>> upgrading.
>> 
>> I have a Dane Elec 2GB USB stick for the back up.
>> 
>> $fdisk sda
>> 
>> displays
>> 
>>         ID:  6
>> System:  FAT16
>> 
>> for this stick.
>> 
>> Do I need to create a Linux partition (ID: 83) before I can use the
>> stick to backup /home?
>
> No, but you /can/.
>
> First and foremost, you need a filesystem that supports Unix file attributes
> (UID, GID, permission bits, etc.). You can either
>   - format the USB stick with a UNIXish filesystem (ext2, minix, ...) or
>   - format a loopback file on the FAT16 fs with a unixish filesystem
> Make this choice first.

Sounds like a lot of bother. Since the OP is using this for backup, 
what's wrong with simply packing the files, *nix attributes and all, 
into a tarball, cpio, whatever archive and simply storing that on the 
vfat filesystem?  

-- 

-John (john@os2.dhs.org)
0
Reply John 12/22/2009 3:15:29 AM

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:19:02 -0500, GangGreene wrote:

> Stefan Patric wrote:
> 
> [putolin]
> 
> 
>>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
>>> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
>>> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there
>>> is no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
>> 
>> Also, you won't need journaling.  So, don't use the -j option when
>> formatting the USB stick to ext3.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> That would be formatting the stick to ext2... not ext3

Essentially, yes.  But to avoid confusion, I worded it the way I did.  
Also, there are distinct, but minor differences, between the two.  Ext3 
is not just ext2 with a journal.

Here's a quick overview of several Linux filesystems, including ext2 & 3:

   http://colbyframeco.com/~maco/nix/fs.pdf


Stef

   
0
Reply Stefan 12/22/2009 7:00:07 AM

On 2009-12-22, Stefan Patric <not@thisaddress.com> wrote:

> is not just ext2 with a journal.

I have ext2 and ext3 and vfat files on the same vfat flash drive.  I can't
say about archiving.  Otherwise, works fine.  Provide umask access for
reg users when mounting drive and they too can copy from key.

nb     
0
Reply notbob 12/22/2009 2:42:49 PM

GangGreene wrote:
> Stefan Patric wrote:
> 
> [putolin]
> 
>>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows box
>>> then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system. Linux
>>> will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is no
>>> reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
>> Also, you won't need journaling.  So, don't use the -j option when
>> formatting the USB stick to ext3.
>>
>>
> 
> That would be formatting the stick to ext2... not ext3

Actually a usb stick might be one of the smarter places to use
a journal since it may be yanked out at any time, possibly without
unmounting. The journal will reduce the chances of corruption and loss.
Not that I'm in any way suggesting that removal with unmounting is ok.
0
Reply Joe 12/22/2009 7:18:21 PM

Joe Beanfish wrote:

> GangGreene wrote:
>> Stefan Patric wrote:
>> 
>> [putolin]
>> 
>>>> Use gparted to reformat it to EXT3. There is no reason to ever use
>>>> FAT16, if it's important to you to be able to plug it into a Windows
>>>> box then format it to FAT32, but EXT3 is a much better file system.
>>>> Linux will mount the stick with just about any file system but there is
>>>> no reason to use an inefficient one if you don't have to.
>>> Also, you won't need journaling.  So, don't use the -j option when
>>> formatting the USB stick to ext3.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> That would be formatting the stick to ext2... not ext3
> 
> Actually a usb stick might be one of the smarter places to use
> a journal since it may be yanked out at any time, possibly without
> unmounting. The journal will reduce the chances of corruption and loss.
> Not that I'm in any way suggesting that removal with unmounting is ok.

It depends, if you are using it for a backup infrequenly then ext3 is ok, 
but if your running an OS which writes very frequently thyen you have the 
potentical to ruin the usb drive due to too many writes.


0
Reply GangGreene 12/22/2009 11:07:21 PM

I demand that Charlie Gibbs may or may not have written...

[snip]
> This might be a bit off-topic, but has anyone noticed reliability problems
> when adding large files to a FAT16-formatted memory stick? I have a 2GB
> stick which I use to back up files from my Windows system at work; I've
> found that if I write a lot more data (several hundred megabytes) to a
> partially filled stick from a Windows box, some of the files will often
> encounter strange (and unrecoverable) errors when I try to read them back.

Are you *sure* that the actual capacity of the stick is what's claimed?

[snip]
-- 
| Darren Salt            | linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Doon
| using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds    ,demon,co,uk    | Northumberland | Army
| + http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/

Mr Flibble says... "GAME OVER, BOYS!"
0
Reply Darren 12/25/2009 3:43:47 PM
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