f



Western Digital hard drives are garbage

I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

0
messenjah (1)
5/19/2005 1:40:02 AM
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On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

You need to quit abusing them.


-- 

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
0
spam5137 (27)
5/19/2005 2:23:04 AM
Bob wrote:
> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>
>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars 
>> are
>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
> You need to quit abusing them.

shhhh 

0
frank27 (36)
5/19/2005 2:48:39 AM
In article <1116466802.676092.89420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<messenjah@mailinator.com> wrote:

> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

Maxtor isn't bad and WDs are fine. But Seagate is pure crap.
0
rag (846)
5/19/2005 3:30:06 AM
On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

Unfortunately mileages do vary a lot among users.  Unless there's a
known issue with a certain models, usually the hard drives do well.  A
failure is either caused by a defect or by improper cooling or voltage
or from static electricity.  Voltage we can handle, we just need to
get good power supply and we can avoid static discharge with proper
handling.  Cooling is maintained with proper ventilation and fans.
Defective drives usually go bad before the warranty expires.

I haven't had any WD go bad since the old 200 MB started doing a bad
opera show and I have 4 of them right now.  I have had a bad luck with
Maxtor before with 3 of them going bad before warranty expired.  Never
had other brand going bad before (IBM, Seagate, Quantum, Connor,
Micropolis, etc and I know some are no longer around)
-- 
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late.    - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
0
impmon (42)
5/19/2005 3:34:24 AM
In message <428bf875.14054437@news-server.houston.rr.com>,
spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:

>On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
>You need to quit abusing them.

I have to say, I've heard for years that "WD" is the best, and that
Maxtor is crap, but I have used Maxtors to WDs in a ratio of about 2:1,
and I have seen 2 WDs fail, and no Maxtors.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/19/2005 3:54:01 AM
On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two years is
gonna go bad in less than a year??? 

I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in time and
I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or something prior
to the time it should've gone bad.

-- 
kai
0
5/19/2005 4:36:05 AM
On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?

Clues:
1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
them.
0
5/19/2005 5:04:44 AM
messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
last month I had a Seagate 120gig SATA fail and two weeks later a 
Seagate 80gig IDE fail. Both were on a plastic rack with a fan blowing 
over them. The other Seagate 80 & Maxtor 40 gigs are still up and 
running in the same frame. Surge supressor in DB board, powerstrip is 
also surge suppressed and PC power is supplied by a Landman 1250A UPS. 
I've replace the 2 failed drives with 120gig SATA IBM Deskstars ( one 
was under guarantee )

Was working as usual and for no reason at all I was unable to access the 
drives. No bumps, jolts etc. ...... just sitting here quietly doing my 
CAD drawings and saving as I go along and suddenly the drives no longer 
show up. Machines also run 24/7 unless we're away for the weekend.

Strangely, the Maxtor is the smallest and oldest HDD and still going 
strong. One 120 gig is my work drive and the remainder are backup units.

Any comments on the IBM Deskstars ??    So I know what to expect ;-)

Bernard
0
5/19/2005 8:12:45 AM
> I have to say, I've heard for years that "WD" is the best, and that
> Maxtor is crap, but I have used Maxtors to WDs in a ratio of about 2:1,
> and I have seen 2 WDs fail, and no Maxtors.

In recent years, I've heard Maxtors are the worst.  At least recent
models, especially the external usb drives.  The reviews I've read seem to
indicate they fail consistently after one year of use.  I have a 10G and
30G maxtor IDE drives myself.  And the 30G drive failed a couple months
ago after some seven or so years of use.  Although it's been in a box that
spent most of the past three years turned off.  The 10G seems to still be
functioning although it too has spent most of the past three years in the
same box.

I have an 80G WD usb drive, that seems fairly stable.  Although it has
it's quirks.  usb-storage doesn't seem to like large files of certain
types, but if I gzip them they seem to copy just fine, even if they're
technically larger than the originals.

I had a 300G Seagate usb/firewire drive that failed after three days. 
Although the failure was the usb casing as far as I could tell and not
the drive. I still have and use a 4.3G seagate drive in my router. Which
was a replacement for a quantum bigfoot CY drive that failed after 9
months. The replacement 300G seagate drive of the same make/model is still
working, but has quirks and is utterly unuseable for anything I plan on
keeping.  I'm thinking of cracking that case and using the IDE drive
inside it as an IDE drive since it doesn't play well with linux and
usb-storage.  It's just really frustrating to spend $300 on something and
not be able to trust it not to function for it's intended function. hdparm
supposedly has a -Z option to keep it from randomly stopping even while
copying a large file to it, or reading .mp3's from it, but I've yet to get
it to work.  Even on my other 40G seagate IDE drive. Both have model
numbers that are supposed to function on the -Z option.  But apparently
don't.  ST3.......

In the old days Maxtors were good and Western Digitals were crap.  These
days that role seems to have reversed.  Seagates have been considered good
drives as the higher price would seem to indicate.  But based on recent
notes in kernel changelogs and whatnot that seems to be changing as well. 
....adding yet another seagate drive to some blacklist or something...

Shadow_7

0
wwwShadow7 (310)
5/19/2005 9:00:39 AM
On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

I have 6 WD drives  2x80 2x120 and 2x200 gig) here up to 3 years old.  All are working just fine.  So is my
200 gig Seagate and even my 6 year old 20 gig Quantum is fine.

Come to think of it, I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a Fujitsu 40 gig unit.  In
that time I have owned somewhere around 25 hard drives.



0
5/19/2005 9:17:43 AM
> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

Six is a lot, but anecdotes as a rule are useless.  For an attempt at a
rational view of the subject, see the Reliability Survey at
http://www.storagereview.com/.

-- 
To reply by email, change "deadspam.com" to "alumni.utexas.net"

0
andrex (444)
5/19/2005 9:21:51 AM
Andrew Schulman wrote:
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
> 
> Six is a lot, but anecdotes as a rule are useless.  For an attempt at a
> rational view of the subject, see the Reliability Survey at
> http://www.storagereview.com/.
> 

Nice page, especially 
http://faq.storagereview.com/tiki-index.php?page=BrandMostReliable
0
Berend
5/19/2005 10:37:37 AM
Randall Ainsworth <rag@nospam.techline.com> writes:

> In article <1116466802.676092.89420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> <messenjah@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
> Maxtor isn't bad and WDs are fine. But Seagate is pure crap.

The opinions seem to diverge wildly on this issue.

In the last few years I've used one Seagate 40G, 5 Seagate Barracuda
120G, 2 Seagate Barracuda 160G SATA, one WD 80G, one Hitachi
Travelstar 40G, one Fujitsu-Siemens 80G laptop drive, and a bunch of
ancient Quantum Fireball SCSI drives.  The WD dropped dead a week
after the warranty expired.  The Hitachi gradually decayed, and is no
longer readable at all.  One Seagate 120G was DOA, replaced under
warranty.  One Quantum Fireball has some bad sectors.  The rest are
still working flawlessly.  All have had the power on more than off.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
5/19/2005 11:04:56 AM
On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

Who did you buy them from?  10 to 1 says all from the same outfit.

Don't be such a naive, stupid fuck, teh manufacturing process of
anything is certainly variable.  Hell bells, I bet yer dumbass bought
em from some company that said something like:
"White Label Name Brand Drives - Maxtor, Seagate, Western Digital"
Which basically means they bought the factory seconds from Western
Digital, etc, etc but then had to put a white label on em.  And given
your stupidity you probably didn't realize you were essentially being
scammed (alhtough you'd have to be pretty gawd damn RETARDED to fall
for it...you seem like the type though).

 --

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm � x �
http://www.backwater-productions.net
0
usenet197 (644)
5/19/2005 11:09:48 AM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:30:06 -0700, Randall Ainsworth
<rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote:

>In article <1116466802.676092.89420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
><messenjah@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
>Maxtor isn't bad and WDs are fine. But Seagate is pure crap.

I've had a Seagate External removable SCSI for ten years.
Have had t WD's go bad this year alone.
I'd have to disagree with you.
It also could be that WD changed a manufacturing process 
and are having some problems.
I know plenty of people who are having problems this year 
with WD drives.
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/19/2005 11:50:57 AM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
>I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
>came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
>year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
>hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
>
>Clues:
>1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
>insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
>2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
>bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
>them.

Another thing is that a lot of people do not replace the blanks over
the card busses when they remove cards. This has a profound effect on
air movement through the case, thus contributing to overheating.
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/19/2005 11:53:14 AM
Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me
> <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
> 
> >On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
> >
> >>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> >>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> >
> >I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
> >came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
> >year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
> >hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
> >
> >Clues:
> >1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
> >insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
> >2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
> >bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
> >them.
> 
> Another thing is that a lot of people do not replace the blanks over
> the card busses when they remove cards. This has a profound effect on
> air movement through the case, thus contributing to overheating.
> :-)

Hey, you, get back off topic.
;-)
-- 
Froz ...
0
5/19/2005 12:11:43 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 10:12:45 +0200, Bernard Rother
<bprotherREMOVE1@intekom.co.za> wrote:

>messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>> 
>last month I had a Seagate 120gig SATA fail and two weeks later a 
>Seagate 80gig IDE fail. Both were on a plastic rack with a fan blowing 
>over them. The other Seagate 80 & Maxtor 40 gigs are still up and 
>running in the same frame. Surge supressor in DB board, powerstrip is 
>also surge suppressed and PC power is supplied by a Landman 1250A UPS. 
>I've replace the 2 failed drives with 120gig SATA IBM Deskstars ( one 
>was under guarantee )
>
>Was working as usual and for no reason at all I was unable to access the 
>drives. No bumps, jolts etc. ...... just sitting here quietly doing my 
>CAD drawings and saving as I go along and suddenly the drives no longer 
>show up. Machines also run 24/7 unless we're away for the weekend.
>
>Strangely, the Maxtor is the smallest and oldest HDD and still going 
>strong. One 120 gig is my work drive and the remainder are backup units.
>
>Any comments on the IBM Deskstars ??    So I know what to expect ;-)

The last drive I replaced was a failed Deskstar. Perhaps a fluke as
I've seen few of them working or failed.
0
5/19/2005 1:00:12 PM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 23:34:24 -0400, Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:

>Cooling is maintained with proper ventilation and fans.

Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor report on the temperature
of my WD HD.

Is that real or bogus?


-- 

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
0
spam5137 (27)
5/19/2005 1:01:43 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:17:43 GMT, Old Bugger <grumpy@mailinator.com>
wrote:

>On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
>I have 6 WD drives  2x80 2x120 and 2x200 gig) here up to 3 years old.  All are working just fine.  So is my
>200 gig Seagate and even my 6 year old 20 gig Quantum is fine.
>
>Come to think of it, I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a Fujitsu 40 gig unit.  In
>that time I have owned somewhere around 25 hard drives.

I've very rarely seen a drive of my own fail myself.
Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long. From
what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on the market,
bar none.
0
5/19/2005 1:03:26 PM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:36:05 -0700, Perfect Reign
<theperfectreign@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

>Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two years is
>gonna go bad in less than a year??? 

I can easily beat that. I had a Caviar run 4 years 24x7 and the SMART
table had so few errors that the drive looked like new.

>I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in time and
>I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or something prior
>to the time it should've gone bad.

You're lucky if a Seagate even spins up. I had the 20 MB ST-120 which
I had to literally beat on to get it to spin up. Shugart should have
stayed bankrupt.


-- 

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
0
spam5137 (27)
5/19/2005 1:04:26 PM
messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:

>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

Maxtors are worse, in my experience.

0
chrisv (22840)
5/19/2005 1:15:59 PM
<messenjah@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:1116466802.676092.89420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>

I think they all have their share of bad lots.
I was diagnosing three Gateway Profile 5 models that would not boot/kept
auto restarting. I suspected the drives and ran the Maxtor diagnostics,
2 reported drive failing, the third claimed repaired (twice in a row).
Checked the other 23 and we have 8 more failures; all Maxtor 40GB
drives.


0
Noone18 (28)
5/19/2005 1:56:39 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 13:04:26 GMT, someone posing as Bob donned fireproof
bloomers and chiseled in the wall:

> On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:36:05 -0700, Perfect Reign
> <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
>>Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two years is
>>gonna go bad in less than a year??? 
> 
> I can easily beat that. I had a Caviar run 4 years 24x7 and the SMART
> table had so few errors that the drive looked like new.

I've got a Compaq 500MHz machine under my desk here at work that has been
in (almost) continual operation since early '00. It's running with two WD
1GB drives.  

> 
>>I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in time and
>>I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or something prior
>>to the time it should've gone bad.
> 
> You're lucky if a Seagate even spins up. I had the 20 MB ST-120 which
> I had to literally beat on to get it to spin up. Shugart should have
> stayed bankrupt.

Well, in all fairness, my second drive IS a Seagate. It is my dual-boot
with SuSE 9.2 - maybe that's why it is still working. :P

Personally, I see "white label" and I ignore. 
-- 
kai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com - www.perfectreign.com

kai:/> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
       To format a floppy, use "fdformat /dev/fd0" 
       and then "mkfs.minix /dev/fd0".
0
5/19/2005 2:13:23 PM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 23:34:24 -0400, Impmon <impmon@digi.mon>
wrote:

>On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
>Unfortunately mileages do vary a lot among users.  Unless there's a
>known issue with a certain models, usually the hard drives do well.  A
>failure is either caused by a defect or by improper cooling or voltage
>or from static electricity.  Voltage we can handle, we just need to
>get good power supply and we can avoid static discharge with proper
>handling.  Cooling is maintained with proper ventilation and fans.
>Defective drives usually go bad before the warranty expires.
>
>I haven't had any WD go bad since the old 200 MB started doing a bad
>opera show and I have 4 of them right now.  I have had a bad luck with
>Maxtor before with 3 of them going bad before warranty expired.  Never
>had other brand going bad before (IBM, Seagate, Quantum, Connor,
>Micropolis, etc and I know some are no longer around)


Don't forget about the delivery, receiving, stock clerks,
etc... the human handlers between the time it left the
factory line and arrived in your hands. 

I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
0
spam29 (1568)
5/19/2005 2:14:31 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:53:14 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma
Bin Crawdaddin) wrote:


>Another thing is that a lot of people do not replace the blanks over
>the card busses when they remove cards. This has a profound effect on
>air movement through the case, thus contributing to overheating.
>:-)

Maybe, but it's also one of the better free-n-easy ways to
get a video card to run cooler.  Personally I don't run any
boxes that don't have a front fan even if it's running so
slow it only serves to ensure enough airflow past the
drives.
0
spam29 (1568)
5/19/2005 2:16:58 PM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah wrote:

> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.


I've got an old Caviar drive in a Novell server that's 1.6 gigabytes and
has got to be 8 years old and has been turning nonstop for that same time
period.  I've seen plenty of Seagate drives self destruct. Same goes for
Maxtor although not that frequent. If you were a smart man Chuck, you'd
set yourself up with a couple WD 160 SATA drives and a RAID 1 controller.
That way you have a failover drive in case the main drive fails. But
you're not smart so i guess the point is moot.
0
meat1 (147)
5/19/2005 3:21:14 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me wrote:

> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
> 
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
> I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
> came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
> year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
> hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
> 
> Clues:
> 1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
> insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
> 2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
> bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
> them.

We're putting WD SATA drives in all our new rack mount dual Xeon rack
mount servers. Drives fail no matter what brand. Smart people buy a RAID
controller and set up a mirror. Cuck isn't too swift though so that's why
he's moaning.
0
meat1 (147)
5/19/2005 3:23:43 PM
On 18 May 2005 in alt.2600, Perfect Reign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com>
made their contribution to mankind by stating in
news:1116477366.0bf995ca581e182ead4c86f9a81cc20c@teranews: 

> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
> 
>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
> Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two
> years is gonna go bad in less than a year??? 
> 
> I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in time
> and I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or
> something prior to the time it should've gone bad.
> 

Chuck abuses his drives almost as bad as he abuses the auditory senses of 
those listening to his drunken ramblings he calls poetry.

-- 
ThePsyko
Public Enemy #7
http://prozac.iscool.net
0
thepsyko (97)
5/19/2005 3:36:29 PM
Bob wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 23:34:24 -0400, Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Cooling is maintained with proper ventilation and fans.
> 
> 
> Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor report on the temperature
> of my WD HD.
> 
> Is that real or bogus?

Probably real.  Most hard drives have had temperature sensors for a few 
years.  Any software that can access the SMART features of the drive can 
show you its temperature.

0
jpstewart (2598)
5/19/2005 3:38:22 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:23:43 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me wrote:
>
>> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>> 
>>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>> 
>> I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
>> came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
>> year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
>> hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
>> 
>> Clues:
>> 1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
>> insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
>> 2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
>> bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
>> them.
>
>We're putting WD SATA drives in all our new rack mount dual Xeon rack
>mount servers. Drives fail no matter what brand. Smart people buy a RAID
>controller and set up a mirror. Cuck isn't too swift though so that's why
>he's moaning.

Yeah, I really need to set up RAIDs in these servers. Right now I've
got each server backing up it's important data files on other servers
hard drives via LAN. If one dies I won't lose the data, but I'll have
to set everything back up and reconfigure it all which is a PITA.
0
5/19/2005 3:42:32 PM
On 19 May 2005 17:36:29 +0200, ThePsyko <ThePsyko@itookmyprozac.com>
wrote:

>On 18 May 2005 in alt.2600, Perfect Reign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com>
>made their contribution to mankind by stating in
>news:1116477366.0bf995ca581e182ead4c86f9a81cc20c@teranews: 
>
>> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>> 
>>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>> 
>> Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two
>> years is gonna go bad in less than a year??? 
>> 
>> I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in time
>> and I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or
>> something prior to the time it should've gone bad.
>> 
>
>Chuck abuses his drives almost as bad as he abuses the auditory senses of 
>those listening to his drunken ramblings he calls poetry.

alt.hackers.malicious closed for repairs?
0
nascarmom (1)
5/19/2005 4:06:02 PM
I stopped buying them in the mid 90s because I had 3 out of 5 fail 
within a year of being bought.  I've stuck with Seagate and Maxtor since 
and haven't had a failure.

messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
0
ha (297)
5/19/2005 4:06:14 PM
Old Bugger wrote:
> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
> 
> 
> I have 6 WD drives  2x80 2x120 and 2x200 gig) here up to 3 years old.  All are working just fine.  So is my
> 200 gig Seagate and even my 6 year old 20 gig Quantum is fine.
> 
> Come to think of it, I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a Fujitsu 40 gig unit.  In
> that time I have owned somewhere around 25 hard drives.
> 
> 
> 
I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple 
of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't 
spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that 
happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and 
allowed to cool.  Since, I have left the computers on even when gone on 
vacation (I have UPS on both), and have had no trouble with the 3 drives 
attached to my desktop computers.


-- 
Ron Hunter  rphunter@charter.net
0
rphunter (102)
5/19/2005 4:10:39 PM
On 19 May 2005 in alt.2600, Trick Dickle <nascarmom@example.com.invalid>
made their contribution to mankind by stating in
news:68ep819tuee0i54knvfpsd0gdbjnicbtej@4ax.com: 

> On 19 May 2005 17:36:29 +0200, ThePsyko <ThePsyko@itookmyprozac.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>On 18 May 2005 in alt.2600, Perfect Reign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com>
>>made their contribution to mankind by stating in
>>news:1116477366.0bf995ca581e182ead4c86f9a81cc20c@teranews: 
>>
>>> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars
>>>> are complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>>> 
>>> Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two
>>> years is gonna go bad in less than a year??? 
>>> 
>>> I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in
>>> time and I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or
>>> something prior to the time it should've gone bad.
>>> 
>>
>>Chuck abuses his drives almost as bad as he abuses the auditory senses
>>of those listening to his drunken ramblings he calls poetry.
> 
> alt.hackers.malicious closed for repairs?
> 

Nah, just got bored slapping you and your ilk around.

-- 
ThePsyko
Public Enemy #7
http://prozac.iscool.net
0
thepsyko (97)
5/19/2005 4:48:40 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:38:22 -0400, John-Paul Stewart
<jpstewart@binaryfoundry.ca> wrote:

>> Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor report on the temperature
>> of my WD HD.
 
>> Is that real or bogus?

>Probably real.  Most hard drives have had temperature sensors for a few 
>years.  Any software that can access the SMART features of the drive can 
>show you its temperature.

Yep, there it is in Everest report of SMART.

Too bad Motherboard Monitor (MBM 5) can't detect it. Or can it?


-- 

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
0
spam5137 (27)
5/19/2005 5:19:01 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:13:23 -0700, Perfect Reign
<theperfectreign@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two years is
>>>gonna go bad in less than a year??? 
 
>> I can easily beat that. I had a Caviar run 4 years 24x7 and the SMART
>> table had so few errors that the drive looked like new.

>I've got a Compaq 500MHz machine under my desk here at work that has been
>in (almost) continual operation since early '00. It's running with two WD
>1GB drives.  

I can beat that too. I just put to rest a 500 MHz K6-II system I built
in August 1999. One of the drives was in there for 2 year and then I
upgraded to one that was in there for 4 years.


-- 

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
0
spam5137 (27)
5/19/2005 5:21:06 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 14:14:31 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

Any guesses when that might happen?

I am not a disk bloater - I can run just fine with 10 GB max, as long
as I keep archive disks using a removable bay. That's how I put older
disks to work.

So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?


-- 

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
0
spam5137 (27)
5/19/2005 5:23:25 PM
spam@spamcop.com (Bob) writes:

> On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:13:23 -0700, Perfect Reign
> <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two years is
>>>>gonna go bad in less than a year??? 
>
>>> I can easily beat that. I had a Caviar run 4 years 24x7 and the SMART
>>> table had so few errors that the drive looked like new.
>
>>I've got a Compaq 500MHz machine under my desk here at work that has been
>>in (almost) continual operation since early '00. It's running with two WD
>>1GB drives.  
>
> I can beat that too. I just put to rest a 500 MHz K6-II system I built
> in August 1999. One of the drives was in there for 2 year and then I
> upgraded to one that was in there for 4 years.

My firewall is a 233 MHz Alpha machine with a 500M Quantum Fireball
SCSI disk dating from the mid-90s.  It's been doing 24/7 all along,
and no sign of error yet.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
5/19/2005 6:39:33 PM
Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
news:428c8de3.52307828@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote

>> Cooling is maintained with proper ventilation and fans.

> Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor
> report on the temperature of my WD HD.

> Is that real or bogus?

Its real, its what the SMART reports and that is done by WD. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/19/2005 6:47:35 PM
Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
news:428cca36.1046203@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> John-Paul Stewart <jpstewart@binaryfoundry.ca> wrote

>>> Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor
>>> report on the temperature of my WD HD.

>>> Is that real or bogus?

>> Probably real.  Most hard drives have had temperature
>> sensors for a few years.  Any software that can access the
>> SMART features of the drive can show you its temperature.

> Yep, there it is in Everest report of SMART.

> Too bad Motherboard Monitor (MBM 5) can't detect it. Or can it?

It can. Just a bit fiddly to setup with MBM. You have
to enable the reporting of the hard drive temp and
restart MBM before its available for selection. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/19/2005 6:49:42 PM
I have 2 120GB WD Caviar drives, seemingly identical but one reports 
temperature through the SMART page in Everest but the other (older) one does 
not.

Bill Harrison

"Bob" <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message 
news:428cca36.1046203@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:38:22 -0400, John-Paul Stewart
> <jpstewart@binaryfoundry.ca> wrote:
>
>>> Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor report on the temperature
>>> of my WD HD.
>
>>> Is that real or bogus?
>
>>Probably real.  Most hard drives have had temperature sensors for a few
>>years.  Any software that can access the SMART features of the drive can
>>show you its temperature.
>
> Yep, there it is in Everest report of SMART.
>
> Too bad Motherboard Monitor (MBM 5) can't detect it. Or can it?
>
>
> -- 
>
> Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
> http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html
>
> A liberal is a person who is so open minded
> that their brains have fallen out. 


0
5/19/2005 6:51:08 PM
"Bob" <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message 
news:428c8e4b.52411859@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:36:05 -0700, Perfect Reign
> <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>
>>Damn!  You mean the Caviar I've had in my machine for the past two years is
>>gonna go bad in less than a year???
>
> I can easily beat that. I had a Caviar run 4 years 24x7 and the SMART
> table had so few errors that the drive looked like new.
>
>>I need Superman to fly really fast backwards so we can go back in time and
>>I'll take the drive out and replace it with a Barracuda or something prior
>>to the time it should've gone bad.

> You're lucky if a Seagate even spins up.

Mindless stuff.

> I had the 20 MB ST-120 which I had to literally beat on
> to get it to spin up. Shugart should have stayed bankrupt.


0
rod_speed (125)
5/19/2005 6:51:16 PM
Bill Harrison <bill.harrison@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d6in6s$7k3$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> I have 2 120GB WD Caviar drives, seemingly identical but one reports 
> temperature through the SMART page in Everest but the other (older) one does 
> not.

WD was VERY late including the temperature in their SMART.

You likely got those drives at about the time they
eventually did that and one was before they did.


> "Bob" <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message 
> news:428cca36.1046203@news-server.houston.rr.com...
>> On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:38:22 -0400, John-Paul Stewart
>> <jpstewart@binaryfoundry.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> Speaking of cooling, Everest gives a Sensor report on the temperature
>>>> of my WD HD.
>>
>>>> Is that real or bogus?
>>
>>>Probably real.  Most hard drives have had temperature sensors for a few
>>>years.  Any software that can access the SMART features of the drive can
>>>show you its temperature.
>>
>> Yep, there it is in Everest report of SMART.
>>
>> Too bad Motherboard Monitor (MBM 5) can't detect it. Or can it?
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
>> http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html
>>
>> A liberal is a person who is so open minded
>> that their brains have fallen out.
>
> 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/19/2005 8:44:54 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 08:11:43 -0400, FrozenNorth
<frozennorth123@canada.com> wrote:

>Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me
>> <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>> >
>> >>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>> >>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>> >
>> >I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
>> >came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
>> >year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
>> >hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
>> >
>> >Clues:
>> >1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
>> >insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
>> >2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
>> >bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
>> >them.
>> 
>> Another thing is that a lot of people do not replace the blanks over
>> the card busses when they remove cards. This has a profound effect on
>> air movement through the case, thus contributing to overheating.
>> :-)
>
>Hey, you, get back off topic.
>;-)

Sorry,
My certs got the best of me for a second.
I promise it won't happen again.
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/19/2005 8:59:26 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:42:32 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:23:43 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>>> 
>>> I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
>>> came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
>>> year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
>>> hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
>>> 
>>> Clues:
>>> 1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
>>> insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
>>> 2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
>>> bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
>>> them.
>>
>>We're putting WD SATA drives in all our new rack mount dual Xeon rack
>>mount servers. Drives fail no matter what brand. Smart people buy a RAID
>>controller and set up a mirror. Cuck isn't too swift though so that's why
>>he's moaning.
>
>Yeah, I really need to set up RAIDs in these servers. Right now I've
>got each server backing up it's important data files on other servers
>hard drives via LAN. If one dies I won't lose the data, but I'll have
>to set everything back up and reconfigure it all which is a PITA.

I don't know what OS you are running but couldn't you set up an ASR
disk with the system state data saved also? If you do that you'd have
every thing backed up including your configuration data.
I think.......
Oooops......
I'm sorry....
I'm not supposed to post on topic shit....
Damn these fukkin certs !!!!!!!!!!
9 damn years in here and I am becoming a fukkin geek!!!!!!
9 damn years being a simple crustacean ......
You see what you have done to me?
Damn you people , damn you people all to hell!!!!!!!
:-(
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/19/2005 9:07:14 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:23:25 +0000, Bob wrote:

> On Thu, 19 May 2005 14:14:31 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> 
>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
> 
> Any guesses when that might happen?
> 
> I am not a disk bloater - I can run just fine with 10 GB max, as long
> as I keep archive disks using a removable bay. That's how I put older
> disks to work.
> 
> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?

In your dreams

-- 
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

0
baho-utot (104)
5/19/2005 9:20:05 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
<baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>
>In your dreams

In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.

0
LQQK (1)
5/19/2005 9:29:14 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 14:14:31 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>Don't forget about the delivery, receiving, stock clerks,
>etc... the human handlers between the time it left the
>factory line and arrived in your hands. 

Unless the drive was shipped in only anti static bag, the box it comes
in should protect from shipping and handling between the factories and
the store shelves.  

>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's
workload.  Try a 200GB video editing on the multiple RAID-0 combined
cards (probably $1,500 total), the write delay alone would cause the
user to grow white hair before it gets done revising just one frame.
-- 
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late.    - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
0
impmon (42)
5/19/2005 9:33:40 PM
Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote in message
news:ma1q81tkih3pot4b23fb1pvnla4vp63ll7@4ax.com...
> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote

>> Don't forget about the delivery, receiving, stock clerks,
>> etc... the human handlers between the time it left the
>> factory line and arrived in your hands.

> Unless the drive was shipped in only anti static bag,
> the box it comes in should protect from shipping  and
> handling between the factories and the store shelves.

Nope, some fool can drop it when packing and unpacking.

>> I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>> eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

> Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
> 1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
> now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's workload.

And its far from clear if those actually fail at a lower rate too.

> Try a 200GB video editing on the multiple RAID-0 combined
> cards (probably $1,500 total), the write delay alone would cause the
> user to grow white hair before it gets done revising just one frame.


0
rod_speed (125)
5/19/2005 9:57:44 PM
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> writes:

> Bill Harrison <bill.harrison@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:d6in6s$7k3$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>> I have 2 120GB WD Caviar drives, seemingly identical but one
>> reports temperature through the SMART page in Everest but the other
>> (older) one does not.
>
> WD was VERY late including the temperature in their SMART.

Maybe because the run so hot, and they didn't want anyone to find out.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
5/19/2005 10:57:06 PM
May you never hear the click or hard drive death, regardless of brand,
The only guarantee is that you will not have backed up your data and will 
misinterpret what happened as motherboard/power supply/whatever failure 
instead of what it actually represents. 


0
apquilts (1)
5/19/2005 11:51:46 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 23:51:46 GMT, "birdman" <apquilts@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>May you never hear the click or hard drive death, regardless of brand,
>The only guarantee is that you will not have backed up your data and will 
>misinterpret what happened as motherboard/power supply/whatever failure 
>instead of what it actually represents. 

LOL. So true. 
0
5/19/2005 11:55:56 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:33:40 -0400, Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:

>Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
>1GB range and I know<SLAP>

Shit apparently, since they're actually up to around 4GB now.

 --

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm � x �
http://www.backwater-productions.net
0
usenet197 (644)
5/20/2005 1:04:41 AM
Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
> 
.... snip ...
> I'm not supposed to post on topic shit....
> Damn these fukkin certs !!!!!!!!!!

Bye now. PLONK

-- 
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on 
 "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the 
 "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson


0
cbfalconer (19194)
5/20/2005 1:35:42 AM
In message <4f8p815bmc5b8prrofu248jetc083gcume@4ax.com>,
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

HD seek times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing.  Most people
don't seem to realize that a 1 GHz celeron computer with three separate
hard disks, properly load-balanced, will outperform a 4GHz CPU system
with a single drive in most typical applications.  Solid state storage
with fast random access times will kill much of the drag.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 3:08:52 AM
In message <428ccb26.1285828@news-server.houston.rr.com>,
spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:

>A liberal is a person who is so open minded
>that their brains have fallen out.

People who think that real issues are about liberals vs conservatives,
or visa versa, full of anecdotes about how stupid the other side is are
generally morons who cling to polarity in a state of mental insecurity.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 3:14:01 AM
In message <4U2je.9007$cP2.6732@fe06.lga>,
Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:

>I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple 
>of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't 
>spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that 
>happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and 
>allowed to cool.

Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 3:22:56 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:08:52 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:

>In message <4f8p815bmc5b8prrofu248jetc083gcume@4ax.com>,
>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

>HD seek times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing.  Most people
>don't seem to realize that a 1 GHz celeron computer with three separate
>hard disks, properly load-balanced, will outperform a 4GHz CPU system
>with a single drive in most typical applications.  Solid state storage
>with fast random access times will kill much of the drag.

....most of what you said and what the other guy said are incorrect.
First of all, solid-state devices won't ever replace mechanical hard
drives unless they can:
A. Reach the same capacities
and
B. Are reasonably priced.
Which isn't going to happen any time soon, if ever, as something
completely different will probably come along and replace both
existing technologies.

Second, a 1 Ghz Celeron would not come anywhere even the fuck close to
competing with a 4Ghz system no matter what the fuck kind or number of
drives you put in it.  I'm not going to get into it too much because
there's a whole lot of technical particulars about it, such as how
various programs and OS's handle data and processing and of course the
more obvious, such as memory, but needless to say, you're quite wrong.

 --

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm � x �
http://www.backwater-productions.net
0
usenet197 (644)
5/20/2005 3:43:47 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:35:42 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
>> 
>... snip ...
>> I'm not supposed to post on topic shit....
>> Damn these fukkin certs !!!!!!!!!!
>
>Bye now. PLONK

Where ya goin'? :-)
0
5/20/2005 4:38:18 AM
"Me" <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote in message 
news:ddqq815hm5h73scd028l8ua7012pfk40l5@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:35:42 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
>>>
>>... snip ...
>>> I'm not supposed to post on topic shit....
>>> Damn these fukkin certs !!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>Bye now. PLONK
>
> Where ya goin'? :-)

He's getting pissed on lots of plonk, silly. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 4:45:45 AM
<JPS@no.komm> wrote in message 
news:9mlq819vdcga7r7a4t6uu9v0g2lhs97ea0@4ax.com...
> In message <4U2je.9007$cP2.6732@fe06.lga>,
> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple
>>of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't
>>spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that
>>happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and
>>allowed to cool.
>
> Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
> high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

Mindless crap.

What actually happens is that you inevitably get some bleed
of the filament metal and the thin part is what fails at turnon
due to the higher current due to the cold filament. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 4:47:20 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
><JPS@no.komm> wrote in message 
>news:9mlq819vdcga7r7a4t6uu9v0g2lhs97ea0@4ax.com...
>> In message <4U2je.9007$cP2.6732@fe06.lga>,
>> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple
>>>of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't
>>>spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that
>>>happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and
>>>allowed to cool.
>>
>> Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>> high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>
>Mindless crap.
>
>What actually happens is that you inevitably get some bleed
>of the filament metal and the thin part is what fails at turnon
>due to the higher current due to the cold filament. 

Yep. The filament actually slowly vaporizes from the heat and
eventually the thin spot fails on powerup. You run into the same
problem with x-ray tubes. The filaments rarely actually get the chance
to fail in them before they become useless though. The vaporized metal
from the filament contaminates the vacuum to the point that the tube
usually starts arcing on high kV shots long before the filament
actually fails.
0
5/20/2005 5:05:31 AM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:23:25 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob)
wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 14:14:31 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
>
>Any guesses when that might happen?
>
>I am not a disk bloater - I can run just fine with 10 GB max, as long
>as I keep archive disks using a removable bay. That's how I put older
>disks to work.
>
>So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?


It is Samsung, IIRC, already with a drive in the works that
has a very large (static?  flash?) cache such that the drive
spins down and only occasionally spins up to dump the
solid-state contents to the magnetic platters.  Supposedly
Microsoft is now optimizing Windows to better optimize it
for this type of storage, but mostly want to leave the
details up to the individual drive manufacturers (which
makes sense, but may also simply be a way of passing the
buck so to speak).

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=39449&liArticleTypeID=1&liChannelID=108&src=rssfeed
0
spam29 (1568)
5/20/2005 5:19:45 AM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:33:40 -0400, Impmon <impmon@digi.mon>
wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 14:14:31 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>Don't forget about the delivery, receiving, stock clerks,
>>etc... the human handlers between the time it left the
>>factory line and arrived in your hands. 
>
>Unless the drive was shipped in only anti static bag, the box it comes
>in should protect from shipping and handling between the factories and
>the store shelves.  

A nice theory, but inevitably high shock that doesn't
immediately damage a drive might still be a contributory
factor towards early demise.  It is a cost-constrained
packaging meant for typical shipping stress.  


>
>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
>
>Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
>1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
>now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's
>workload.  Try a 200GB video editing on the multiple RAID-0 combined
>cards (probably $1,500 total), the write delay alone would cause the
>user to grow white hair before it gets done revising just one frame.

Dell et al have 4GB CF for under $240 if you can hunt down
promo codes and rebate deals, here's an example but one has
to find their own Dell/etc discounts to apply,
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0448320

Problem is, too many CF are still PIO acess only and they
chould consider setting these up as arrays for greater
throughput, probably would when it came time to expect their
use as a HDD rather than removable storage for portable
devices.

0
spam29 (1568)
5/20/2005 5:25:38 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 07:57:44 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:


>>> I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>> eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
>
>> Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
>> 1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
>> now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's workload.
>
>And its far from clear if those actually fail at a lower rate too.
>

I would tend to disagree, it seems quite clear that with
proper care (relevant to both types of storage), that memory
cards are far more reliable and long-lived... within their
limits of write cycles of course.
0
spam29 (1568)
5/20/2005 5:27:47 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:08:52 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:

>In message <4f8p815bmc5b8prrofu248jetc083gcume@4ax.com>,
>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
>
>HD seek times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing.  

In most common tasks & OS GUI, I agree.  For the most
demanding uses a power-user might subject a system too,
often not.


>Most people
>don't seem to realize that a 1 GHz celeron computer with three separate
>hard disks, properly load-balanced, will outperform a 4GHz CPU system
>with a single drive in most typical applications.  Solid state storage
>with fast random access times will kill much of the drag.

Doesn't even have to be 3 HDD, I have a box here that is
reserved for legacy uses running Win98 & DOS, in Win98 it
outright screams at common tasks compared to a brand new
"average" box... but only until something is very CPU bound,
and of course in such tasks the memory and perhaps more
further causes a difference.

It's all in what a person does with their system. I do agree
that the most common uses of a PC benefit most from fast
storage, BUT I actually have a test system I've set up Win98
on to run from a CF card (except the swapfile- ramdrive
based), and it isn't as fast the first time around loading
anything but it could partially be because of the PIO mode
the CF is using.  Next time I will be sure to get both IDE
adapter and CF card that are DMA capable.

0
spam29 (1568)
5/20/2005 5:34:42 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:r1uq81p2ifiqns1of7i0dp8rous60n937n@4ax.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>> I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>>> eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

>>> Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
>>> 1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
>>> now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's workload.

>> And its far from clear if those actually fail at a lower rate too.

> I would tend to disagree, it seems quite clear that
> with proper care (relevant to both types of storage),
> that memory cards are far more reliable and long-lived...
> within their limits of write cycles of course.

Easy to claim. Reality with consumer products is another matter entirely. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 5:51:20 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 15:51:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:r1uq81p2ifiqns1of7i0dp8rous60n937n@4ax.com...
>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>> I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>>>> eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
>
>>>> Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
>>>> 1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
>>>> now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's workload.
>
>>> And its far from clear if those actually fail at a lower rate too.
>
>> I would tend to disagree, it seems quite clear that
>> with proper care (relevant to both types of storage),
>> that memory cards are far more reliable and long-lived...
>> within their limits of write cycles of course.
>
>Easy to claim. Reality with consumer products is another matter entirely. 
>


What parts of a flash based solution do you consider unique
to it that are more subject to fail than the unique parts on
a mechanical magnetic solution?  There will always be
unforseeable failures but when the most problematic parts
are eliminated it does tend to make for more reliable
devices.

I've had 3 HDDs fail in the last 18 months (out of many, the
rate doesn't seem relatively bad), but zero flash card
failures.  One system runs from flash card, MP3 and camera
do, and I regularly use thumbdrives, etc.  I can't speak for
everyone but do feel flash is far more reliable and all the
industry studies seem to bear that out as well.
0
spam29 (1568)
5/20/2005 9:04:20 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:jkar81lau6971srhr35a66ma4ha2rnv2j1@4ax.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>>> I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>>>>> eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

>>>>> Me too.  Memory cards (CF and SD for example) are available in up to
>>>>> 1GB range and I know larger cards are available somewhere.  But right
>>>>> now it's far too expensive, small, and slow to handle today's workload.

>>>> And its far from clear if those actually fail at a lower rate too.

>>> I would tend to disagree, it seems quite clear that
>>> with proper care (relevant to both types of storage),
>>> that memory cards are far more reliable and long-lived...
>>> within their limits of write cycles of course.

>> Easy to claim. Reality with consumer products is another matter entirely.

> What parts of a flash based solution do you consider
> unique to it that are more subject to fail than the
> unique parts on a mechanical magnetic solution?

Completely irrelevant to the actual failure
in the hands of consumers actually seen.

> There will always be unforseeable failures but
> when the most problematic parts are eliminated
> it does tend to make for more reliable devices.

Completely irrelevant to the actual failure
in the hands of consumers actually seen.

> I've had 3 HDDs fail in the last 18 months (out of many, the
> rate doesn't seem relatively bad), but zero flash card failures.

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

> One system runs from flash card, MP3 and camera do,
> and I regularly use thumbdrives, etc.  I can't speak
> for everyone but do feel flash is far more reliable

How you feel is also completely irrelevant.

> and all the industry studies seem to bear that out as well.

Easy to claim. Reality with consumer products is another matter entirely.


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 10:19:48 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:


>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

The same can probably be said about you.
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/20/2005 10:51:11 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 00:38:18 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:35:42 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
>>> 
>>... snip ...
>>> I'm not supposed to post on topic shit....
>>> Damn these fukkin certs !!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>Bye now. PLONK
>
>Where ya goin'? :-)

Yeah,
Did I piss the fukker off that quick?
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/20/2005 10:52:29 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
Crawdaddin) wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>
>
>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>
>The same can probably be said about you.

Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any in the
envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...) 
0
5/20/2005 12:50:03 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:50:03 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
>Crawdaddin) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>>
>>The same can probably be said about you.
>
>Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any in the
>envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
>pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...) 

Give him a break,
He plonked me before he even got to know me....
I would imagine the only vacuum he is familiar with is 
what is between his ears.
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/20/2005 12:53:12 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:29:14 GMT, LQQK@mi.sig wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
><baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>>
>>In your dreams
>
>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.

That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.



-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
5/20/2005 12:58:51 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:58:51 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:29:14 GMT, LQQK@mi.sig wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
>><baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>>>
>>>In your dreams
>>
>>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.
>
>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.

Nor Georgians.
0
5/20/2005 1:18:03 PM
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:42:32 -0400, Me wrote:

> On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:23:43 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
> wrote:
> 
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:04:44 -0400, Me wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>>> 
>>> I've run nothing but WD Special Edition 8meg cache drives since they
>>> came out. I've had at least 8 of them spinning 24/7 for well over a
>>> year (probably 2) and have yet to see even one of them so much as
>>> hiccup. What on earth are you doing to those things?
>>> 
>>> Clues:
>>> 1.Don't wad cables up and shove them over the drives. That acts as
>>> insulation and causes them to overheat which KILLS them.
>>> 2. Most cases have a place for a case fan that blows through the drive
>>> bays FOR A REASON. Run a case fan blowing over those drives to cool
>>> them.
>>
>>We're putting WD SATA drives in all our new rack mount dual Xeon rack
>>mount servers. Drives fail no matter what brand. Smart people buy a RAID
>>controller and set up a mirror. Cuck isn't too swift though so that's why
>>he's moaning.
> 
> Yeah, I really need to set up RAIDs in these servers. Right now I've
> got each server backing up it's important data files on other servers
> hard drives via LAN. If one dies I won't lose the data, but I'll have
> to set everything back up and reconfigure it all which is a PITA.


I couldn't sleep at night if the equipment I'm in charge of didn't have
failover storage. The only one not in that catagory is my Novell 3.12
print server. But I have another drive mirrored and ready to plop in when
the old 1.6 gig WD finally bites the dust if it ever does.


0
meat1 (147)
5/20/2005 2:57:02 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:50:03 -0400, Me wrote:

> On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
> Crawdaddin) wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>>
>>The same can probably be said about you.
> 
> Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any in the
> envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
> pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...)

I don't think you can suck all the oxygen out of the capsule. One
of the reasons that inert gasses under pressure must be used when the
filament is so hot. And most light bulb failure is due to  current
inrush when first switched on causing the filament to twitch then
fracture at it's weakest point. There are lots of high dollar, high
current pro audio power amps that have a soft start circuit that allows
the devices to power up slowly. This adds life to the circuitry. And many
electronic devices are rated or spec'd by on-off cycles. Mil-spec devices
have the highest ratings for said cycles. 
0
meat1 (147)
5/20/2005 3:09:20 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:18:03 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.

>Nor Georgians.

I know a Georgian living here in Houston. He has more guns than most
Texans.

I figure when Texas secedes, Georgia will immediately follow - if they
don't beat us to it.


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
5/20/2005 3:23:23 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:09:20 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:50:03 -0400, Me wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
>> Crawdaddin) wrote:
>> 
>>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>>>
>>>The same can probably be said about you.
>> 
>> Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any in the
>> envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
>> pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...)
>
>I don't think you can suck all the oxygen out of the capsule. 

Are they not pulling a hard vacuum on standard incandescent bulbs? I
have to wonder why not if they aren't. I don't know why they couldn't
if they actually tried... they get the O2 low enough that it's
irrelevant in other forms of evacuated devices (x-ray tubes for
example... they HAVE to be a hard vacuum or they'll arc).


>One
>of the reasons that inert gasses under pressure must be used when the
>filament is so hot. And most light bulb failure is due to  current
>inrush when first switched on causing the filament to twitch then
>fracture at it's weakest point. 

Very true, but if they're pulling a hard vacuum on them the reason
that there *is* a thin point is metal evaporation, not oxidation. At
least that's certainly the case with medical x-ray tubes. 


>There are lots of high dollar, high
>current pro audio power amps that have a soft start circuit that allows
>the devices to power up slowly. This adds life to the circuitry.

Oh sure... I just bought 2 1500/3000 watt power inverters last week
with soft start. Certainly a good idea.

> And many
>electronic devices are rated or spec'd by on-off cycles. Mil-spec devices
>have the highest ratings for said cycles. 

Yep. :-)
0
5/20/2005 3:35:17 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 15:23:23 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:18:03 -0400, Me
><no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
>
>>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.
>
>>Nor Georgians.
>
>I know a Georgian living here in Houston. He has more guns than most
>Texans.
>
>I figure when Texas secedes, Georgia will immediately follow - if they
>don't beat us to it.

If I had to move, Texas is the only other state I'd really want to
live in.
0
5/20/2005 3:36:32 PM
JPS@no.komm wrote:
<snip>


   One explanation
> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

Hmmm just how could this be. Light bulbs are filled with inert gases. So 
please explain how it gets this oxygen inside the INERT gas filled bulb?
Unless there has been physical damage to the glass bulb this can not happen
0
dwmoar (127)
5/20/2005 4:18:35 PM
"Bob" <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message 
news:428e009c.2710468@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:18:03 -0400, Me
> <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
>
>>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.
>
>>Nor Georgians.
>
> I know a Georgian living here in Houston. He has more guns than most
> Texans.
>
> I figure when Texas secedes, Georgia will immediately follow - if they
> don't beat us to it.
>
>
> -- 
>
> Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
> http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html
>
> If you can read this, thank a teacher.
> If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.
> 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 6:06:46 PM
Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
news:428e009c.2710468@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> Me <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote

>>> That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.

>> Nor Georgians.

> I know a Georgian living here in Houston.
> He has more guns than most Texans.

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

> I figure when Texas secedes,

Just another pathetic little drug crazed fantasy.

Taint gunna happen, you watch.

> Georgia will immediately follow - if they don't beat us to it.

Just another pathetic little drug crazed fantasy.

Taint gunna happen, you watch. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 6:09:09 PM
Me <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote in
message news:760s81heh03spaub761bad5qbnucbrgog2@4ax.com...
> Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local> wrote
>> Me wrote
>>> Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin) wrote
>>>> JPS@no.komm wrote

>>>>> Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too
>>>>> long, they have a high risk of burning after a cooldown
>>>>> and power return.  One explanation is that they suck
>>>>> in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

>>>> The same can probably be said about you.

>>> Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any
>>> in the envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas
>>> at a specific pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...)

>> I don't think you can suck all the oxygen out of the capsule.

> Are they not pulling a hard vacuum on standard incandescent bulbs?

Nope, havent done for a long time now with normal bulbs.

> I have to wonder why not if they aren't.

Inert gas is better, reduces the rate of evaporation of the filament.

Thats the primary failure mode with incandescent bulbs.

> I don't know why they couldn't if they actually tried...

They can, but its not as good an approach as inert
gas and is harder to do too, for no useful purpose.

> they get the O2 low enough that it's irrelevant in other
> forms of evacuated devices (x-ray tubes for example...
> they HAVE to be a hard vacuum or they'll arc).

Correct, but an inert gas is better if it will work with that filling.

And halogens deliberately use a non inert gas which
redeposits the evaporated metal back on the filament.
That approach has its own disadvantages tho, the
bulb needs to run MUCH hotter to get that effect.


>>One
>>of the reasons that inert gasses under pressure must be used when the
>>filament is so hot. And most light bulb failure is due to  current
>>inrush when first switched on causing the filament to twitch then
>>fracture at it's weakest point.
>
> Very true, but if they're pulling a hard vacuum on them the reason
> that there *is* a thin point is metal evaporation, not oxidation. At
> least that's certainly the case with medical x-ray tubes.
>
>
>>There are lots of high dollar, high
>>current pro audio power amps that have a soft start circuit that allows
>>the devices to power up slowly. This adds life to the circuitry.
>
> Oh sure... I just bought 2 1500/3000 watt power inverters last week
> with soft start. Certainly a good idea.
>
>> And many
>>electronic devices are rated or spec'd by on-off cycles. Mil-spec devices
>>have the highest ratings for said cycles.
>
> Yep. :-) 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 6:14:56 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 13:53:12 +0000, Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:

> On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:50:03 -0400, Me
> <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
>>Crawdaddin) wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>>>
>>>The same can probably be said about you.
>>
>>Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any in the
>>envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
>>pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...) 
> 
> Give him a break,
> He plonked me before he even got to know me....
> I would imagine the only vacuum he is familiar with is 
> what is between his ears.
> :-)
> --
you honestly think that he could figure out HOW to plonk you? damn, when
did you become so trusting.

-- 
Solbarth
0
solbarth (1)
5/20/2005 6:41:30 PM
JPS@no.komm <JPS@no.komm> wrote:
> In message <428bf875.14054437@news-server.houston.rr.com>,
> spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:
>
>>On 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah@mailinator.com wrote:
>>
>>>I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
>>>complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.
>>
>>You need to quit abusing them.
>
> I have to say, I've heard for years that "WD" is the best, and that
> Maxtor is crap, but I have used Maxtors to WDs in a ratio of about 2:1,
> and I have seen 2 WDs fail, and no Maxtors.

My primary job is system administration, so I work with a lot of hard
drives, and push them somewhat hard.  We don't use WD, but Maxtor has
had the lowest survival rate of any of the other hard drives that
we've used since they merged with Quantum a few years back.  After
having two hard drives fail in less than six months, and then the two
replacements failing in less than six months, and then the two
replacements of *those* failing in less than six months, I finally
took the hint and stopped buying them completely.

Asking other admins, I found out it's not just me.  Doing a bit of
research on hard drives in that community gave me three brands that
are supposed to be high quality under load:

Seagate
Hitachi
Fujitsu

We're currently testing Seagate 400s (in both SATA and PATA) and are
about to start testing a batch of Hitachi (PATA only) drives, and
(knock on wood) the Seagates haven't failed yet (going about 6 months
so far).  I've found out that Seagate drives have significantly higher
startup current than Hitachis, though (2.8A vs 2.0A), which can cause
them to fail in some single external enclosure units, which tend to
have marginal power supplies.  Seagates have the better warranties,
though, which speaks well of company confidence, at least.

I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
either.

-- 
Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> a.k.a. Zed Pobre <zed@debian.org>
PGP key and fingerprint available on finger; encrypted mail welcomed.
0
zed715 (52)
5/20/2005 8:17:04 PM
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f4c6bF60o2eU1@individual.net...
>
> Bill Harrison <bill.harrison@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:d6in6s$7k3$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> > I have 2 120GB WD Caviar drives, seemingly identical but one reports
> > temperature through the SMART page in Everest but the other (older) one
does
> > not.
>
> WD was VERY late including the temperature in their SMART.

Yes I got two 120G WD drives that don't have a temp sensor. Both less than
three years old.


0
5/20/2005 8:36:35 PM
Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote in message
news:slrnd8sg61.928.zed@resonant.org...
> JPS@no.komm <JPS@no.komm> wrote
>> spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote
>>> messenjah@mailinator.com wrote

>>>> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap.
>>>> The Caviars are complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

>>> You need to quit abusing them.

>> I have to say, I've heard for years that "WD" is the best, and
>> that Maxtor is crap, but I have used Maxtors to WDs in a ratio
>> of about 2:1, and I have seen 2 WDs fail, and no Maxtors.

> My primary job is system administration, so I work with a lot of hard
> drives, and push them somewhat hard.  We don't use WD, but Maxtor
> has had the lowest survival rate of any of the other hard drives that
> we've used since they merged with Quantum a few years back.  After
> having two hard drives fail in less than six months, and then the two
> replacements failing in less than six months, and then the two
> replacements of *those* failing in less than six months, I finally
> took the hint and stopped buying them completely.

> Asking other admins, I found out it's not just me.  Doing a
> bit of research on hard drives in that community gave me
> three brands that are supposed to be high quality under load:

> Seagate
> Hitachi
> Fujitsu

Fujitsu doesnt even make 3.5" IDEs anymore and their
last, the MPG was a complete disaster failure rate wise.

> We're currently testing Seagate 400s (in both SATA and PATA) and
> are about to start testing a batch of Hitachi (PATA only) drives, and
> (knock on wood) the Seagates haven't failed yet (going about 6 months
> so far).  I've found out that Seagate drives have significantly higher
> startup current than Hitachis, though (2.8A vs 2.0A), which can cause
> them to fail in some single external enclosure units, which tend to
> have marginal power supplies.  Seagates have the better warranties,
> though, which speaks well of company confidence, at least.

> I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
> limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
> I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then, either.


0
rod_speed (125)
5/20/2005 9:19:37 PM
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Fujitsu doesnt even make 3.5" IDEs anymore and their
> last, the MPG was a complete disaster failure rate wise.

They still make SCSI drives, the MA* series, as I understand it.  I
never looked into Fujitsu personally, so I don't know much about them.
They just showed up in conversations as solid drives.

-- 
Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> a.k.a. Zed Pobre <zed@debian.org>
PGP key and fingerprint available on finger; encrypted mail welcomed.
0
zed715 (52)
5/20/2005 10:17:03 PM
In message <17uq81hc3gb32g66irr4nk11on66l60al5@4ax.com>,
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:08:52 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:

>>In message <4f8p815bmc5b8prrofu248jetc083gcume@4ax.com>,
>>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.

>>HD seek times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing.  

>In most common tasks & OS GUI, I agree.  For the most
>demanding uses a power-user might subject a system too,
>often not.

I didn't say otherwise, but the fact is, most people blame down-time
spent on mechanical seeks on something else, usually the CPU.  People go
out and buy brand-new computers with lots of GHz because their systems
are sluggish, but it isn't necessarily the CPU that is the problem; most
often it is disk head contention.

A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s can drop
4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at different ends of
the drive at the same time.

-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 11:36:26 PM
In message <3f58eqF62qlhU1@individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

><JPS@no.komm> wrote in message 
>news:9mlq819vdcga7r7a4t6uu9v0g2lhs97ea0@4ax.com...
>> In message <4U2je.9007$cP2.6732@fe06.lga>,
>> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple
>>>of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't
>>>spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that
>>>happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and
>>>allowed to cool.
>>
>> Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>> high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>
>Mindless crap.

Perhaps.  I said it was one explanation, as I heard this most recently,
from someone who said I was wrong when I claimed it had something to do
with the filament being cold.

>What actually happens is that you inevitably get some bleed
>of the filament metal and the thin part is what fails at turnon
>due to the higher current due to the cold filament. 

I've always thought it was something like that.

-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 11:39:17 PM
In message <428dc0ed.182624390@nntp.charter.net>,
Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin) wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>
>
>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>
>The same can probably be said about you.
>:-)

You can say anything you want about me, but that has no effect on what I
am or what I do.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 11:40:39 PM
In message <v2nr81trcot05hlaop0btvdo7ceikk1qfm@4ax.com>,
Me <no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
>Crawdaddin) wrote:

>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:

>>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

>>The same can probably be said about you.

>Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen".

Of course they can't.  Who said they did?  Not me.  I said that one
explanation is that the bulbs suck in oxygen when they cool down.  I
didn't even say it was my explanation.  The person who suggested that to
me said that the seal can break as the gas contracts, bringing in oxygen
which causes the filament to burn open.

>There isn't any in the
>envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
>pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...) 

No kidding.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 11:44:32 PM
In message <ocudnS-4nOTSkxPfRVn-qA@megapath.net>,
David <dwmoar@findmoore.net> wrote:

>JPS@no.komm wrote:
><snip>

>   One explanation
>> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

>Hmmm just how could this be. Light bulbs are filled with inert gases. So 
>please explain how it gets this oxygen inside the INERT gas filled bulb?
>Unless there has been physical damage to the glass bulb this can not happen

It wasn't my explanation.  I said it was *one* explanation, given to me
by someone else.  The idea was that as the gas in the bulb contracted,
air with oxygen from the environment leaks into the bulb, so the
filament burns when it restarts.

There is nothing in my statement to suggest either that this was my
idea, or that the explanation was that oxygen was always in the bulb,
and got sucked into the filament.  That is due to sociopathic nature of
most of the people who replied to me; people who look for any angle to
ridicule someone from, with their interpretations of what they read
twisted to make other people look stupid.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/20/2005 11:52:49 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

While sipping absinthe, JPS@no.komm heard a loud sucking noise coming
from alt.2600, and hastily inscribed the following unintelligible
Sanskrit in <news:8ess81l0ff2ujmdvg88nhim2kskptg7t6v@4ax.com>:

> In message <17uq81hc3gb32g66irr4nk11on66l60al5@4ax.com>,
> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:08:52 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
> 
>>>In message <4f8p815bmc5b8prrofu248jetc083gcume@4ax.com>,
>>>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>I think we'll all be happier campers when solid-state
>>>>eventually replaces the mechanical HDD.
> 
>>>HD seek times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing.  
> 
>>In most common tasks & OS GUI, I agree.  For the most
>>demanding uses a power-user might subject a system too,
>>often not.
> 
> I didn't say otherwise, but the fact is, most people blame
> down-time spent on mechanical seeks on something else, usually the
> CPU.  People go out and buy brand-new computers with lots of GHz
> because their systems are sluggish, but it isn't necessarily the
> CPU that is the problem; most often it is disk head contention.
> 
> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s can
> drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at different
> ends of the drive at the same time.

Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you just
blowing hot air to pass time? o_O

^reaper^

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0
knocking (10)
5/21/2005 12:29:33 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:18:03 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:58:51 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:29:14 GMT, LQQK@mi.sig wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
>>><baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>>>>
>>>>In your dreams
>>>
>>>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.
>>
>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.
>
>Nor Georgians.

They're too chickenshit to come down here in the swamps.
:-)

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/21/2005 1:08:58 AM
In message <e9xvk4zft9y0$.dlg@fallen.angel>,
"^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote:

>> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s can
>> drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at different
>> ends of the drive at the same time.

>Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you just
>blowing hot air to pass time? o_O

I've tested this many times, and the results are consistent.  You get
about 15 to 25x the disk speed when two files being read "at the same
time" are on different drives, than when they are on the same drive at
different extreme cylinders.
-- 

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
   John P Sheehy         <JPS@no.komm>
 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
0
JPS3767 (40)
5/21/2005 1:23:51 AM
<JPS@no.komm> wrote in message
news:h0ts81d8tqev06jl4crleqjttj9dkudpvs@4ax.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> <JPS@no.komm> wrote
>>> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:

>>>>I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple
>>>>of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't
>>>>spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that
>>>>happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and
>>>>allowed to cool.

>>> Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>> high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.

>> Mindless crap.

> Perhaps.

No perhaps about it, completely mindless silly crap.

> I said it was one explanation,

It isnt. Its just plain mindless silly crap.

> as I heard this most recently, from someone who said I was wrong
> when I claimed it had something to do with the filament being cold.

>> What actually happens is that you inevitably get some bleed
>> of the filament metal and the thin part is what fails at turnon
>> due to the higher current due to the cold filament.

> I've always thought it was something like that.

Yeah, the 'suck in oxygen' is completely silly, there
is an inert gas in most incandescents, for a reason. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/21/2005 1:26:01 AM
Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
> I've had a Seagate External removable SCSI for ten years.
> Have had t WD's go bad this year alone.
> I'd have to disagree with you.
> It also could be that WD changed a manufacturing process 
> and are having some problems.
> I know plenty of people who are having problems this year 
> with WD drives.

I know I'm too small a sample size to be statistically significant, but 
I'm still going to bitch.

I've lost all three of the last WDs I've bought, just after the warranty 
expired.  The only good thing I can say is that they failed gradually, 
and there were significant warnings in /var/log/messages prior to the 
failure. This allowed me to migrate to new drives relatively smoothly.

The most recent purchase, based on experience with WD, was a Seagate.
0
Ari_Rankum (31)
5/21/2005 2:03:30 AM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 11:26:01 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
><JPS@no.komm> wrote in message
>news:h0ts81d8tqev06jl4crleqjttj9dkudpvs@4ax.com...
>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> <JPS@no.komm> wrote
>>>> Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>I have had one HD failure in 10 years.  It was left on 24/7 for a couple
>>>>>of years, then turned off when I left town for a few days.  Wouldn't
>>>>>spin up when I returned.  A friend (IBM CE) told me that sometimes that
>>>>>happens on drives that are run for a long time, then turned off and
>>>>>allowed to cool.
>
>>>> Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>> high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>> is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>
>>> Mindless crap.
>
>> Perhaps.
>
>No perhaps about it, completely mindless silly crap.
>
>> I said it was one explanation,
>
>It isnt. Its just plain mindless silly crap.
>
>> as I heard this most recently, from someone who said I was wrong
>> when I claimed it had something to do with the filament being cold.
>
>>> What actually happens is that you inevitably get some bleed
>>> of the filament metal and the thin part is what fails at turnon
>>> due to the higher current due to the cold filament.
>
>> I've always thought it was something like that.
>
>Yeah, the 'suck in oxygen' is completely silly, there
>is an inert gas in most incandescents, for a reason. 

Are you claiming that NO oxygen molecules of ANY sort can penetrate
teh bulb?    `, )

 --

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm � x �
http://www.backwater-productions.net
0
usenet197 (644)
5/21/2005 2:03:51 AM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 02:03:30 GMT, Ari Rankum
<ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Yomamma Bin Crawdaddin wrote:
>> I've had a Seagate External removable SCSI for ten years.
>> Have had t WD's go bad this year alone.
>> I'd have to disagree with you.
>> It also could be that WD changed a manufacturing process 
>> and are having some problems.
>> I know plenty of people who are having problems this year 
>> with WD drives.
>
>I know I'm too small a sample size to be statistically significant, but 
>I'm still going to bitch.
>
>I've lost all three of the last WDs I've bought, just after the warranty 
>expired.  The only good thing I can say is that they failed gradually, 
>and there were significant warnings in /var/log/messages prior to the 
>failure. This allowed me to migrate to new drives relatively smoothly.
>
>The most recent purchase, based on experience with WD, was a Seagate.

Apparenly it's easy for the retarded to skip posts that are actually
relevant so I'll try again, a lil slower this time:

WHERE  DID  YOU  BUY  THE  DRIVES  AT?

And further, what are the SPECIFIC model numbers of the drives.

 --

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm � x �
http://www.backwater-productions.net
0
usenet197 (644)
5/21/2005 2:18:45 AM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

While sipping absinthe, JPS@no.komm heard a loud sucking noise coming
from alt.2600, and hastily inscribed the following unintelligible
Sanskrit in <news:ov2t81l7e7q4mat1lu1sofh96go6lvgm5j@4ax.com>:

> In message <e9xvk4zft9y0$.dlg@fallen.angel>,
> "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote:
> 
>>> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s
>>> can drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at
>>> different ends of the drive at the same time.
> 
>>Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you
>>just blowing hot air to pass time? o_O
> 
> I've tested this many times, and the results are consistent.  You
> get about 15 to 25x the disk speed when two files being read "at
> the same time" are on different drives, than when they are on the
> same drive at different extreme cylinders.

For starters, if you are going to use such an example to back your
claim, you need to qualify "tested" and "many times" as well as
clarify under what conditions you ran your "tests," how you were able
to determine on what cylinders these files "phyisically" resided, and
how you were able to control your concurrent reads. You also need to
describe how you identified and accounted for confounds when you ran
your "tests" as well as how you established your normative values for
later comparative analysis.

Furthermore, do you really mean disk speed or are you referring to
transfer rate or seek times? If the latter, how did you measure seek
times and what do you think accounts for the extreme variance? And
yes, an order of magnitude per second is extreme variance when you
are talking about seek times. Especially given that the example you
have provided involves concurrently reading two contiguous files, one
on the low cylinder and one on the high. In fact, even if you're
referring to transfer rate, you are still talking about a large
variance that cannot be accounted for by seek time alone.

And finally, while seek times can impact overall processing time, you
seem to completely ignore the primary problem. Computes and page
swapping. And this is driven in part by processor design and speed,
memory management, how much resident memory is available at any given
point in time, and of course, the number and type of program(s)
running. Obviously if you're doing intensive disk i/o processing, you
will see an impact from your seek times. Which is why, for example,
large database designs include both a logical and physical design.
Even so, to make a generalized statement that, and I quote, "HD seek
times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing" is... well...
completely imbecilic.

^reaper^

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0
knocking (10)
5/21/2005 3:45:35 AM
Zed Pobre wrote:

> Seagate
> Hitachi
> Fujitsu

The Seagate is probably going to be the best bet. I run a pile of 
Maxtors without any hiccups, but that doesn't really mean anything. Any 
higher end builds I do, or any Servers I put into the mix that need to 
do anything more than share out a printer will receive a Seagate drive. 
The hitachis are noisy but fast, and from working with alot of Touch 
machines, I know first hand how bad the failure rate is on the Fujitsu 
drives, so I have steered clear of them for about 4 years now.

Wheats
0
nope7 (45)
5/21/2005 3:54:46 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:45:35 -0700, "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door>
wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>While sipping absinthe, JPS@no.komm heard a loud sucking noise coming
>from alt.2600, and hastily inscribed the following unintelligible
>Sanskrit in <news:ov2t81l7e7q4mat1lu1sofh96go6lvgm5j@4ax.com>:
>
>> In message <e9xvk4zft9y0$.dlg@fallen.angel>,
>> "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote:
>> 
>>>> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s
>>>> can drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at
>>>> different ends of the drive at the same time.
>> 
>>>Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you
>>>just blowing hot air to pass time? o_O
>> 
>> I've tested this many times, and the results are consistent.  You
>> get about 15 to 25x the disk speed when two files being read "at
>> the same time" are on different drives, than when they are on the
>> same drive at different extreme cylinders.
>
>For starters, if you are going to use such an example to back your
>claim, you need to qualify "tested" and "many times" as well as
>clarify under what conditions you ran your "tests," how you were able
>to determine on what cylinders these files "phyisically" resided, and
>how you were able to control your concurrent reads. You also need to
>describe how you identified and accounted for confounds when you ran
>your "tests" as well as how you established your normative values for
>later comparative analysis.
>
>Furthermore, do you really mean disk speed or are you referring to
>transfer rate or seek times? If the latter, how did you measure seek
>times and what do you think accounts for the extreme variance? And
>yes, an order of magnitude per second is extreme variance when you
>are talking about seek times. Especially given that the example you
>have provided involves concurrently reading two contiguous files, one
>on the low cylinder and one on the high. In fact, even if you're
>referring to transfer rate, you are still talking about a large
>variance that cannot be accounted for by seek time alone.
>
>And finally, while seek times can impact overall processing time, you
>seem to completely ignore the primary problem. Computes and page
>swapping. And this is driven in part by processor design and speed,
>memory management, how much resident memory is available at any given
>point in time, and of course, the number and type of program(s)
>running. Obviously if you're doing intensive disk i/o processing, you
>will see an impact from your seek times. Which is why, for example,
>large database designs include both a logical and physical design.
>Even so, to make a generalized statement that, and I quote, "HD seek
>times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing" is... well...
>completely imbecilic.

*shudder*

I love it when chix0rs talk tech.    `, )

 --

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm � x �
http://www.backwater-productions.net
0
usenet197 (644)
5/21/2005 3:57:12 AM
Sounds like a troll to me. Why waste time on such useless drivel.

"^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote in message 
news:124xrgb6trvkn.dlg@fallen.angel...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> While sipping absinthe, JPS@no.komm heard a loud sucking noise coming
> from alt.2600, and hastily inscribed the following unintelligible
> Sanskrit in <news:ov2t81l7e7q4mat1lu1sofh96go6lvgm5j@4ax.com>:
>
>> In message <e9xvk4zft9y0$.dlg@fallen.angel>,
>> "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote:
>>
>>>> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s
>>>> can drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at
>>>> different ends of the drive at the same time.
>>
>>>Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you
>>>just blowing hot air to pass time? o_O
>>
>> I've tested this many times, and the results are consistent.  You
>> get about 15 to 25x the disk speed when two files being read "at
>> the same time" are on different drives, than when they are on the
>> same drive at different extreme cylinders.
>
> For starters, if you are going to use such an example to back your
> claim, you need to qualify "tested" and "many times" as well as
> clarify under what conditions you ran your "tests," how you were able
> to determine on what cylinders these files "phyisically" resided, and
> how you were able to control your concurrent reads. You also need to
> describe how you identified and accounted for confounds when you ran
> your "tests" as well as how you established your normative values for
> later comparative analysis.
>
> Furthermore, do you really mean disk speed or are you referring to
> transfer rate or seek times? If the latter, how did you measure seek
> times and what do you think accounts for the extreme variance? And
> yes, an order of magnitude per second is extreme variance when you
> are talking about seek times. Especially given that the example you
> have provided involves concurrently reading two contiguous files, one
> on the low cylinder and one on the high. In fact, even if you're
> referring to transfer rate, you are still talking about a large
> variance that cannot be accounted for by seek time alone.
>
> And finally, while seek times can impact overall processing time, you
> seem to completely ignore the primary problem. Computes and page
> swapping. And this is driven in part by processor design and speed,
> memory management, how much resident memory is available at any given
> point in time, and of course, the number and type of program(s)
> running. Obviously if you're doing intensive disk i/o processing, you
> will see an impact from your seek times. Which is why, for example,
> large database designs include both a logical and physical design.
> Even so, to make a generalized statement that, and I quote, "HD seek
> times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing" is... well...
> completely imbecilic.
>
> ^reaper^
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
>
> iQA/AwUBQo6uxlMeYoHj2dI5EQLdHwCeKFnoCMD8H/9xaZQeFitBssR6L5wAnifw
> SBL50SePLRHjuR52btz1s5lB
> =ASmf
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 


0
moose.nyc (1)
5/21/2005 4:12:36 AM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 01:08:58 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
Crawdaddin) wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:18:03 -0400, Me
><no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:58:51 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:29:14 GMT, LQQK@mi.sig wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
>>>><baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>>>>>
>>>>>In your dreams
>>>>
>>>>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.
>>>
>>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.
>>
>>Nor Georgians.
>
>They're too chickenshit to come down here in the swamps.

I've been in those swamps... I understand why. ;-)
0
5/21/2005 4:36:33 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:57:12 -0700, Onideus Mad Hatter
<usenet@backwater-productions.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:45:35 -0700, "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door>
>wrote:
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>While sipping absinthe, JPS@no.komm heard a loud sucking noise coming
>>from alt.2600, and hastily inscribed the following unintelligible
>>Sanskrit in <news:ov2t81l7e7q4mat1lu1sofh96go6lvgm5j@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> In message <e9xvk4zft9y0$.dlg@fallen.angel>,
>>> "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s
>>>>> can drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at
>>>>> different ends of the drive at the same time.
>>> 
>>>>Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you
>>>>just blowing hot air to pass time? o_O
>>> 
>>> I've tested this many times, and the results are consistent.  You
>>> get about 15 to 25x the disk speed when two files being read "at
>>> the same time" are on different drives, than when they are on the
>>> same drive at different extreme cylinders.
>>
>>For starters, if you are going to use such an example to back your
>>claim, you need to qualify "tested" and "many times" as well as
>>clarify under what conditions you ran your "tests," how you were able
>>to determine on what cylinders these files "phyisically" resided, and
>>how you were able to control your concurrent reads. You also need to
>>describe how you identified and accounted for confounds when you ran
>>your "tests" as well as how you established your normative values for
>>later comparative analysis.
>>
>>Furthermore, do you really mean disk speed or are you referring to
>>transfer rate or seek times? If the latter, how did you measure seek
>>times and what do you think accounts for the extreme variance? And
>>yes, an order of magnitude per second is extreme variance when you
>>are talking about seek times. Especially given that the example you
>>have provided involves concurrently reading two contiguous files, one
>>on the low cylinder and one on the high. In fact, even if you're
>>referring to transfer rate, you are still talking about a large
>>variance that cannot be accounted for by seek time alone.
>>
>>And finally, while seek times can impact overall processing time, you
>>seem to completely ignore the primary problem. Computes and page
>>swapping. And this is driven in part by processor design and speed,
>>memory management, how much resident memory is available at any given
>>point in time, and of course, the number and type of program(s)
>>running. Obviously if you're doing intensive disk i/o processing, you
>>will see an impact from your seek times. Which is why, for example,
>>large database designs include both a logical and physical design.
>>Even so, to make a generalized statement that, and I quote, "HD seek
>>times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing" is... well...
>>completely imbecilic.
>
>*shudder*
>
>I love it when chix0rs talk tech.    `, )
>

Me too....
It makes me want to grab their ass with both hands.
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/21/2005 11:34:50 AM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 00:36:33 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 21 May 2005 01:08:58 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
>Crawdaddin) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:18:03 -0400, Me
>><no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:58:51 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:29:14 GMT, LQQK@mi.sig wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
>>>>><baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In your dreams
>>>>>
>>>>>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.
>>>>
>>>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.
>>>
>>>Nor Georgians.
>>
>>They're too chickenshit to come down here in the swamps.
>
>I've been in those swamps... I understand why. ;-)

What?
You dissin' my home?
You know,
the next time I make it to Eufaula,
I might just cross the river and come over there 
and teach you some respect !!!!!!
:-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomamma bin Crawdaddin                                               www.cotse.com
Brotherhood (Vice Chairman)                                                   
Anti Archangel #41                                  The difference between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy is    
Stalking Filth #69.5                                                                    that Ted Kennedy has at least one confirmed kill.   
>--|                                                            
 <:((>>>><                                                                                                         
>--|                             
--
0
Crawdad (17)
5/21/2005 11:36:38 AM
Me wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:17:43 GMT, Old Bugger <grumpy@mailinator.com>
>wrote:

>>I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a
>>Fujitsu 40 gig unit.

>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>the market, bar none.

I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one bigger than 1
gig.

But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
Microscience, and Rodime?

0
5/21/2005 12:45:54 PM
> I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one bigger than 1
> gig.

http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/computing/storage/hdd/eol/#iddesktop


0
5/21/2005 12:54:37 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:35:17 -0400, Me wrote:

> On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:09:20 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
> wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:50:03 -0400, Me wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:11 GMT, Crawdad@Bayou.com (Yomamma Bin
>>> Crawdaddin) wrote:
>>> 
>>>>On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:22:56 GMT, JPS@no.komm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Same with incandescent light bulbs.  If they run too long, they have a
>>>>>high risk of burning after a cooldown and power return.  One explanation
>>>>>is that they suck in oxygen for the first time during cooldown.
>>>>
>>>>The same can probably be said about you.
>>> 
>>> Thing is, filaments can't "suck oxygen". There isn't any in the
>>> envelope. It's either a vacuum or a specific gas at a specific
>>> pressure (halogen, xenon, etc...)
>>
>>I don't think you can suck all the oxygen out of the capsule. 
> 
> Are they not pulling a hard vacuum on standard incandescent bulbs? I
> have to wonder why not if they aren't. I don't know why they couldn't
> if they actually tried... they get the O2 low enough that it's
> irrelevant in other forms of evacuated devices (x-ray tubes for
> example... they HAVE to be a hard vacuum or they'll arc).

Is a hard vacuum completely devoid of O2? I didn't think it was possible
to evacuate all the O2. 


> 
>>One
>>of the reasons that inert gasses under pressure must be used when the
>>filament is so hot. And most light bulb failure is due to  current
>>inrush when first switched on causing the filament to twitch then
>>fracture at it's weakest point. 
> 
> Very true, but if they're pulling a hard vacuum on them the reason
> that there *is* a thin point is metal evaporation, not oxidation. At
> least that's certainly the case with medical x-ray tubes. 

Another reason for the high pressure gas is to prevent filament erosion.

> 
>>There are lots of high dollar, high
>>current pro audio power amps that have a soft start circuit that allows
>>the devices to power up slowly. This adds life to the circuitry.
> 
> Oh sure... I just bought 2 1500/3000 watt power inverters last week
> with soft start. Certainly a good idea.

My 1000 watt RMS Crown bass amp has a soft start. It's just a relay and a
big sandstone resistor.
 
>> And many
>>electronic devices are rated or spec'd by on-off cycles. Mil-spec
>>devices have the highest ratings for said cycles.
> 
> Yep. :-)

Yup.
0
meat1 (147)
5/21/2005 3:24:17 PM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:57:12 -0700, Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:

> On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:45:35 -0700, "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door>
> wrote:
> 
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>While sipping absinthe, JPS@no.komm heard a loud sucking noise coming
>>from alt.2600, and hastily inscribed the following unintelligible
>>Sanskrit in <news:ov2t81l7e7q4mat1lu1sofh96go6lvgm5j@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> In message <e9xvk4zft9y0$.dlg@fallen.angel>,
>>> "^reaper^" <knocking@deaths.door> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> A drive capable of reading a single, contiguous file at 50 MB/s
>>>>> can drop 4 or 5 MB/s total if two files are being accessed at
>>>>> different ends of the drive at the same time.
>>> 
>>>>Do any of you know at all what you're talking about? Or are you
>>>>just blowing hot air to pass time? o_O
>>> 
>>> I've tested this many times, and the results are consistent.  You
>>> get about 15 to 25x the disk speed when two files being read "at
>>> the same time" are on different drives, than when they are on the
>>> same drive at different extreme cylinders.
>>
>>For starters, if you are going to use such an example to back your
>>claim, you need to qualify "tested" and "many times" as well as
>>clarify under what conditions you ran your "tests," how you were able
>>to determine on what cylinders these files "phyisically" resided, and
>>how you were able to control your concurrent reads. You also need to
>>describe how you identified and accounted for confounds when you ran
>>your "tests" as well as how you established your normative values for
>>later comparative analysis.
>>
>>Furthermore, do you really mean disk speed or are you referring to
>>transfer rate or seek times? If the latter, how did you measure seek
>>times and what do you think accounts for the extreme variance? And
>>yes, an order of magnitude per second is extreme variance when you
>>are talking about seek times. Especially given that the example you
>>have provided involves concurrently reading two contiguous files, one
>>on the low cylinder and one on the high. In fact, even if you're
>>referring to transfer rate, you are still talking about a large
>>variance that cannot be accounted for by seek time alone.
>>
>>And finally, while seek times can impact overall processing time, you
>>seem to completely ignore the primary problem. Computes and page
>>swapping. And this is driven in part by processor design and speed,
>>memory management, how much resident memory is available at any given
>>point in time, and of course, the number and type of program(s)
>>running. Obviously if you're doing intensive disk i/o processing, you
>>will see an impact from your seek times. Which is why, for example,
>>large database designs include both a logical and physical design.
>>Even so, to make a generalized statement that, and I quote, "HD seek
>>times are the biggest bottleneck in most computing" is... well...
>>completely imbecilic.
> 
> *shudder*
> 
> I love it when chix0rs talk tech.    `, )


Print it out so you can jack off while you read it.
0
meat1 (147)
5/21/2005 3:26:52 PM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 11:24:17 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
wrote:

>Is a hard vacuum completely devoid of O2? I didn't think it was possible
>to evacuate all the O2. 

It is possible, just a matter of applying the technology correctly.
-- 
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late.    - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
0
impmon (42)
5/21/2005 5:09:40 PM
Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> writes:

> On Sat, 21 May 2005 11:24:17 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
> wrote:
>
>>Is a hard vacuum completely devoid of O2? I didn't think it was possible
>>to evacuate all the O2. 
>
> It is possible, just a matter of applying the technology correctly.

One way is to suck out as much as possible, and then introduce a small
amount of a highly reactive solid that will take care of the remaining
gas.  Cesium can be used for such purposes.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
5/21/2005 5:18:10 PM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 04:12:36 GMT, "Bullwinkle. J. Moose"
<moose.nyc@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:

>Sounds like a troll to me. Why waste time on such useless drivel.

And you want us to take you seriously with a name like Bullwinkle. J.
Moose?

What's the J stand for? Or shoud I ask?


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
5/21/2005 10:16:14 PM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 00:36:33 -0400, Me
<no-address_for_spammers@no-address.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?

>>>>>>In your dreams

>>>>>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.

>>>>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.

>>>Nor Georgians.

>>They're too chickenshit to come down here in the swamps.

>I've been in those swamps... I understand why. ;-)

You haven't been in Texas swamps. We even have Sidehill Gougers.


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
5/21/2005 10:17:50 PM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 19:18:10 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=
<mru@inprovide.com> wrote:

>One way is to suck out as much as possible, and then introduce a small
>amount of a highly reactive solid that will take care of the remaining
>gas.  Cesium can be used for such purposes.

It's called a "getter". That's how they create an O2-free environment
inside a light bulb.


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
5/21/2005 10:19:37 PM
Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
news:428fb3ce.2132593@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> <mru@inprovide.com> wrote

>> One way is to suck out as much as possible, and then introduce
>> a small amount of a highly reactive solid that will take care of the
>> remaining gas.  Cesium can be used for such purposes.

> It's called a "getter". That's how they create
> an O2-free environment inside a light bulb.

Nope, they fill it with an inert gas instead. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/21/2005 11:10:47 PM
Peter wrote:

Me wrote:

>>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>>the market, bar none.

>>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one
>>bigger than 1 gig.

>www.fujitsu.com/global/services/computing/storage/hdd/eol/#iddesktop

Fuji drives have nothing to do with Fujitsu.

0
5/22/2005 9:04:40 AM
On Sun, 22 May 2005 09:10:47 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>> It's called a "getter". That's how they create
>> an O2-free environment inside a light bulb.

>Nope, they fill it with an inert gas instead. 

They do both.

The getter is used to get the last remnants of O2 out. It's cheaper
than trying to purify the inert gas excessively.


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
5/22/2005 12:32:49 PM
Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
news:42907bbc.3192750@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>> It's called a "getter". That's how they create
>>> an O2-free environment inside a light bulb.

>> Nope, they fill it with an inert gas instead.

> They do both.

Nope, not with normal incandescent bulbs.

> The getter is used to get the last remnants of O2 out.
> It's cheaper than trying to purify the inert gas excessively.

Utterly mangled all over again. 


0
rod_speed (125)
5/22/2005 6:22:09 PM
Peter wrote:

Me wrote:

>>>I've very rarely seen a drive of my own fail myself.
>>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for
>>>long. From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are
>>>the worst on the market, bar none.

>>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one
>>bigger than 1 gig.

>www.fujitsu.com/global/services/computing/storage/hdd/eol/#iddesktop

That's not Fuji but Fujitsu, a completely different company that made a
string of bad drives.

0
5/23/2005 2:34:24 AM
Rod Speed wrote:
> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
> 
>>>> It's called a "getter". That's how they create
>>>> an O2-free environment inside a light bulb.
> 
>>> Nope, they fill it with an inert gas instead.
> 
>> They do both.
> 
> Nope, not with normal incandescent bulbs.
> 
>> The getter is used to get the last remnants of O2 out.
>> It's cheaper than trying to purify the inert gas excessively.
> 
> Utterly mangled all over again.

A getter is used in vacuum tubes (valves in right-pondia).  After
pumping out and sealing there is a residue of atmosphere remaining,
consisting largely of nitrogen and oxygen.  By heating the getter
those gases will form inert compounds which are deposited on the
inside of the glass, improving the vacuum and leaving the silvery
coating on the glass in the general area of the getter.  A good
vacuum is essential to tube functionality.

-- 
 Some informative links:
   news:news.announce.newusers
   http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
   http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
   http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
   http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html


0
cbfalconer (19194)
5/23/2005 4:36:28 AM
On 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:

>
>Me wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:17:43 GMT, Old Bugger <grumpy@mailinator.com>
>>wrote:
>
>>>I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a
>>>Fujitsu 40 gig unit.
>
>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>the market, bar none.
>
>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one bigger than 1
>gig.
>
>But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
>Microscience, and Rodime?

Don't know enough about them to have an opinion really. All I've ever
had that I recall off the top of my head were Maxtor, Quantum, WD,
and one Fuji that died very early on.
0
5/23/2005 4:55:49 AM
Me wrote:
> On 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:

>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>the market, bar none.

>>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one
>>bigger than 1 gig.
>
>>But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
>>Microscience, and Rodime?
>
>Don't know enough about them to have an opinion really. All
>I've ever had that I recall off the top of my head were
>Maxtor, Quantum, WD, and one Fuji that died very early on.

Are you confusing Fuji with Fujitsu?

0
5/23/2005 9:26:08 AM
CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:42914B53.A4E08D6C@yahoo.com...
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote

>>>>> It's called a "getter". That's how they create
>>>>> an O2-free environment inside a light bulb.

>>>> Nope, they fill it with an inert gas instead.

>>> They do both.

>> Nope, not with normal incandescent bulbs.

>>> The getter is used to get the last remnants of O2 out.
>>> It's cheaper than trying to purify the inert gas excessively.

>> Utterly mangled all over again.

> A getter is used in vacuum tubes (valves in right-pondia).

And other situations where a vacuum is used.

Not with incandescent bulbs filled with an inert gas tho.

> After pumping out and sealing there is a residue of atmosphere
> remaining, consisting largely of nitrogen and oxygen.  By heating
> the getter those gases will form inert compounds which are
> deposited on the inside of the glass, improving the vacuum and
> leaving the silvery coating on the glass in the general area of the
> getter.  A good vacuum is essential to tube functionality.

> -- 
> Some informative links:
>   news:news.announce.newusers
>   http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
>   http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>   http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
>   http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html


0
rod_speed (125)
5/23/2005 9:37:37 AM
On 23 May 2005 02:26:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:

>
>Me wrote:
>> On 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:
>
>>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>>the market, bar none.
>
>>>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one
>>>bigger than 1 gig.
>>
>>>But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
>>>Microscience, and Rodime?
>>
>>Don't know enough about them to have an opinion really. All
>>I've ever had that I recall off the top of my head were
>>Maxtor, Quantum, WD, and one Fuji that died very early on.
>
>Are you confusing Fuji with Fujitsu?

Could be. Didn't realize there was a difference until you pointed it
out (thanks). Don't have the drive anymore so I can't look to see.
0
5/23/2005 1:53:39 PM
On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:53:39 -0400, Me wrote:

> On 23 May 2005 02:26:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:
> 
>>
>>Me wrote:
>>> On 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>>>the market, bar none.
>>
>>>>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one
>>>>bigger than 1 gig.
>>>
>>>>But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
>>>>Microscience, and Rodime?
>>>
>>>Don't know enough about them to have an opinion really. All
>>>I've ever had that I recall off the top of my head were
>>>Maxtor, Quantum, WD, and one Fuji that died very early on.
>>
>>Are you confusing Fuji with Fujitsu?
> 
> Could be. Didn't realize there was a difference until you pointed it
> out (thanks). Don't have the drive anymore so I can't look to see.

Fuji is GE Fuji now and as far as I know they don't make hard drives. They
might make specialty drive motors or some shit like that.  However I've
seen Fujitsu drives referenced as Fuji drives.



0
meat1 (147)
5/24/2005 2:41:29 PM
Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local> writes:

> On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:53:39 -0400, Me wrote:
>
>> On 23 May 2005 02:26:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>>Me wrote:
>>>> On 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>>>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>>>>the market, bar none.
>>>
>>>>>I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one
>>>>>bigger than 1 gig.
>>>>
>>>>>But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
>>>>>Microscience, and Rodime?
>>>>
>>>>Don't know enough about them to have an opinion really. All
>>>>I've ever had that I recall off the top of my head were
>>>>Maxtor, Quantum, WD, and one Fuji that died very early on.
>>>
>>>Are you confusing Fuji with Fujitsu?
>> 
>> Could be. Didn't realize there was a difference until you pointed it
>> out (thanks). Don't have the drive anymore so I can't look to see.
>
> Fuji is GE Fuji now and as far as I know they don't make hard drives. They
> might make specialty drive motors or some shit like that.  However I've
> seen Fujitsu drives referenced as Fuji drives.

They seem to be making aluminum disks to be used in hard drives.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
5/24/2005 3:31:55 PM
Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:

> I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
> limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
> I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
> either.

The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 

0
5/27/2005 12:00:42 AM
Neill Massello wrote:

> Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
>>limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
>>I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
>>either.
> 
> 
> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
> models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 
> 
Hi,
Enemy of anything inside PC box is heat. I have an early Deskstar(40GB)
running in it's 6th year. Occasionally there comes bad batch. WD drives
are OK drives. Better than Maxtor, IMO.
Tony
0
dragon40 (116)
5/27/2005 1:04:39 AM
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Neill Massello <neillmassello@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:

>> I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
>> limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
>> I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
>> either.

> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
> models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 

Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.

Arno

0
me4 (19624)
5/27/2005 1:43:10 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:58:51 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob) wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:29:14 GMT, LQQK@mi.sig wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20:05 GMT, Baho Utot
>><baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> So, when can I get a 10 GB solid state storage device for $50?
>>>
>>>In your dreams
>>
>>In your dreams also regarding gun confiscation.
>
>That's right. Nobody is ever going to disarm Texans.

	Until intelligence is considered a weapon.
0
kashe (32)
5/27/2005 11:28:29 PM
Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>> models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 
>
> Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
> I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
> from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.

What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?

-- 
Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> a.k.a. Zed Pobre <zed@debian.org>
PGP key and fingerprint available on finger; encrypted mail welcomed.
0
zed715 (52)
5/30/2005 3:17:03 AM
Seagate has been good for me for the $

-- 
Post your pictures and discuss photography here:

http://www.rickbakerimages.com


"Zed Pobre" <zed@resonant.org> wrote in message 
news:slrnd9kuo9.uo0.zed@resonant.org...
> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>>> models haven't had unusually high failure rates.
>>
>> Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
>> I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
>> from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.
>
> What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?
>
> -- 
> Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> a.k.a. Zed Pobre <zed@debian.org>
> PGP key and fingerprint available on finger; encrypted mail welcomed. 


0
rbaker3 (6)
5/30/2005 4:48:09 AM
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:
> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>>> models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 
>>
>> Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
>> I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
>> from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.

> What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?

I used 3 "deathstars", two in my computer at home and one in 
my computer at work. All died with massive amounts of unreadable 
sectors. I never had any other disk failure at home and only the 
normal rate (maybe a bit higher than that) at work with other brands.
But IBM/Hitachi "Deathstars" gave me 3 our of 3 failed.

In addition I know of several more that died in the same fashion.

Since you ask about Hitachi drives, I don't know what they had before 
they bought IBMs HDD division. If they had anything before I don't 
know anything about the quality of that. I also did not buy any 
IBM/Hitachi drives after the "deathstar" desaster, since that cost 
me enough nerves. And judh=ging form the commenst of some people
here that are in teh data recovery business, Hitachi is still
at the low end of the reliability spectrum. No surprise they
try to compete on speed.

Arno





0
me4 (19624)
5/30/2005 11:37:17 PM
In article <1gx6kf4.15e67uk1s0h7nxN%neillmassello@earthlink.net>,
 neillmassello@earthlink.net (Neill Massello) wrote:

> Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:
> 
> > I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
> > limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
> > I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
> > either.
> 
> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
> models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 

I've had a few Deskstar 75GXP and 120GXP drives die.  The 75GXP drives 
suffered from progressive failure, except for one that had a bad IDE 
interface from the factory.  A 120GXP warranty replacement died 
completely when my mouse fell off my desk, swung on its cord, and hit my 
computer.  It's not even worth another warranty replacement.  Rebuilding 
a system sucks.

My photos are currently on a pair of Western Digital drives that have 
been working very well.  They weren't bothered a bit by the mouse 
incident.
0
mcmurtri (754)
5/31/2005 2:31:46 AM
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> writes:

> In article <1gx6kf4.15e67uk1s0h7nxN%neillmassello@earthlink.net>,
>  neillmassello@earthlink.net (Neill Massello) wrote:
>
>> Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:
>> 
>> > I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
>> > limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
>> > I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
>> > either.
>> 
>> The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>> models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 
>
> I've had a few Deskstar 75GXP and 120GXP drives die.  The 75GXP drives 
> suffered from progressive failure, except for one that had a bad IDE 
> interface from the factory.  A 120GXP warranty replacement died 
> completely when my mouse fell off my desk, swung on its cord, and hit my 
> computer.

Being struck by a mouse should be well within the shock tolerance of a
hard drive.

> My photos are currently on a pair of Western Digital drives that have 
> been working very well.  They weren't bothered a bit by the mouse 
> incident.

My photos are on two raid-1 arrays in different countries, and on my
laptop.  Can't be too careful with things you can't recreate.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
5/31/2005 10:15:12 AM
"Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:mcmurtri-8767FE.19314630052005@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> In article <1gx6kf4.15e67uk1s0h7nxN%neillmassello@earthlink.net>,
>  neillmassello@earthlink.net (Neill Massello) wrote:
>
> > Zed Pobre <zed@resonant.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I've previously had bad experiences with IBM drives, but I'm told that
> > > limited to a single manufacturing batch, and they're much better than
> > > I think.  I wouldn't know, as I haven't bought those since then,
> > > either.
> >
> > The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
> > models haven't had unusually high failure rates.
>
> I've had a few Deskstar 75GXP and 120GXP drives die.  The 75GXP drives
> suffered from progressive failure, except for one that had a bad IDE
> interface from the factory.  A 120GXP warranty replacement died
> completely when my mouse fell off my desk, swung on its cord, and hit my
> computer.  It's not even worth another warranty replacement.  Rebuilding
> a system sucks.
>
> My photos are currently on a pair of Western Digital drives that have
> been working very well.  They weren't bothered a bit by the mouse
> incident.

I've had nothing but good performance and durability out of all the Western
Digital HD's I use (few < 5, 8, 15, 40 and 80 gigs on multiple pc's). A
couple of the smaller ones are >= 10 years, 8 gig is >= 6, 15 = 5, all at
24/7 uptime (pc's on 24/7) and other than the odd reformat for OS upgrades,
primary/slave reasons etc., they've never even "hiccupped". Same period and
have had both Maxtor and Hitachi's fail.


0
pjp
6/1/2005 12:13:47 AM
I'm the same as pjp, I've not had any problems with WD drives, either.
Their Raptor drive also works very well for me.

0
mno2go (6)
6/1/2005 5:01:49 AM
On 31 May 2005 22:01:49 -0700, mno2go@gmail.com wrote:

>I'm the same as pjp, I've not had any problems with WD drives, either.
>Their Raptor drive also works very well for me.

I believe the enemy is heat. Those who have good luck with HDs manage
to keep theirs cool.

I asked WD tech support what they considered the safe operating
temperature for their drives and they replied that 15 - 55C. I have a
temp probe (SMART) on my WD SEs and they run no hotter than 40C when I
defrag them.

My case has places for 4 fans in the front and 2 of them are directly
in front of the internal 3.5" bays. That way you can blow air from an
80mm fan right over the disks.

I also have a Kingwin KF-23 removable bay with 3 fans - 1 in the bay
and 2 in the drawer. With the tray in the bay 24x7 the hottest I have
seen the disk get is around 40C. Uusally it rides around 37C when
Windows is idling.

I also have the Enermax 352 RAID/Backup unit with its 60mm fan. The
drives in there run about the same as in the other locations.

There is no excuse for frying a HD anymore.


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
6/1/2005 12:17:17 PM
Zed Pobre wrote:
> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> 
>>>The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>>>models haven't had unusually high failure rates. 
>>
>>Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
>>I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
>>from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.
> 
> 
> What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?
> 

The 75GXP series IBM drives used a glass platter instead of the 
traditional aluminum with coating, they tried a new material, and over 
time it developed stress fractures that were simply not apparent in 
early testing. It also had some radical head designs, and there was a 
slightly higher rate of failure due to this, a trade off for increased 
speed.  Rather an issue an immediate recall as many of them would make 
it past their "useful" life (translation: warranty period), IBM chose to 
do nothing, and it created a PR disaster for them. On top of that, when 
you sent one in, you didn't always get one of the same size back, and 
sometimes you got another 75GXP which had the same potential as the one 
you sent in.  Eventually they did issue a recall, but not soon enough to 
make anyone happy.  The 75GXPs came in a lot of different sizes, and was 
a very popular drive in the corporate setting for desktops.

The technology in them was only used on that particular drive model and 
is not used in any of the Hitachis period, never was, that problem was 
well before IBM sold the division to Hitachi. You wont get this type of 
failure, they don't use the same technology and materials now.

----

The whole reason they tried the glass platters in the first place was to 
fix a problem with distortion of shape in aluminum platters.  If you 
have an electric mixer at home, put some pancake batter in it and spin 
it quickly in either direction by hand without the beaters in it. Notice 
what happens? The batter that was level gets pushed to the sides of the 
container, and the center is now lower than the sides as the material 
has been pushed to the edges.  The same thing happens on a smaller scale 
to aluminum when its spinning at a much faster speed, it literally 
becomes out of shape in places and it wasn't a problem you could just 
add more mass to the platter to fix - more mass just meant it happened 
even faster and was a lot more energy to spin up - less mass was more 
desireable, but that warped quickly at higher speeds and made the 
coatings they were using less reliable. At the time all makers were 
having problems with this distortion (and they still are). Glass seemed 
like a good idea at the time, it didn't compress like the aluminum did, 
so they figured it wouldn't spread out, and in their testing it didn't. 
But what they didn't figure on was that the forces were enough over time 
to make some areas of it brittle, the same centrifigal force was still 
in play, but the energy didn't have a handy outlet as it was working 
against the bonds in the glass constantly.  Accelerated wear teting 
failed to catch it, and the rest is history.

It seemed like the perfect material, easy to work with, able to make it 
thinner, no compression, no expansion, desirable thermal properties, 
ability to bake magnetic coatings into the glass for cheaper manufacture.

IBM isn't alone in having a line of drives that went bad before their 
time. I can remember multiple Seagates that were exceptionally 
craptastic in the 80's and 90's (and did even less than IBM to resolve 
the problem I might add, worse at a time when HD's cost far more than 
they do today). Maxtor had it's high failure period. Western Digital had 
a couple bad models as well.









0
6/1/2005 12:53:23 PM
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:17:17 GMT, spam@spamcop.com (Bob)
wrote:

>On 31 May 2005 22:01:49 -0700, mno2go@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>I'm the same as pjp, I've not had any problems with WD drives, either.
>>Their Raptor drive also works very well for me.
>
>I believe the enemy is heat. Those who have good luck with HDs manage
>to keep theirs cool.
>
>I asked WD tech support what they considered the safe operating
>temperature for their drives and they replied that 15 - 55C. I have a
>temp probe (SMART) on my WD SEs and they run no hotter than 40C when I
>defrag them.
>
>My case has places for 4 fans in the front and 2 of them are directly
>in front of the internal 3.5" bays. That way you can blow air from an
>80mm fan right over the disks.
>
>I also have a Kingwin KF-23 removable bay with 3 fans - 1 in the bay
>and 2 in the drawer. With the tray in the bay 24x7 the hottest I have
>seen the disk get is around 40C. Uusally it rides around 37C when
>Windows is idling.
>
>I also have the Enermax 352 RAID/Backup unit with its 60mm fan. The
>drives in there run about the same as in the other locations.
>
>There is no excuse for frying a HD anymore.


Nonsense.  Drives kept far cooler than your removable bays
can manage and ran from very high-end power still fail.
Heat or power "can" easily damage drives but are most
definitely not the only causes.

In that regard, WD drives are a little worse than many as
their flipped-circuit-board design protects parts from
physical installation (scraping) damage better but also
reduce the airflow further to the PCB mounted parts.
Regardless, they do usually stay cool enough with moderate
airflow.
0
spam29 (1568)
6/1/2005 3:40:40 PM
"Timbertea" <timbusenet@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:7dine.1087$RV5.584@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> Zed Pobre wrote:
>> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>>>>models haven't had unusually high failure rates.
>>>
>>>Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
>>>I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
>>>from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.
>>
>>
>> What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?

> The 75GXP series IBM drives used a glass platter instead of the traditional 
> aluminum with coating, they tried a new material, and over time it developed 
> stress fractures that were simply not apparent in early testing.

Doesnt explain why the drive gone bad could
normally be returned from the dead using the diag.

Only to fail again later, and usually again being revivable using the diag.

It also had some radical head designs, and there was a
> slightly higher rate of failure due to this, a trade off for increased speed. 
> Rather an issue an immediate recall as many of them would make it past their 
> "useful" life (translation: warranty period), IBM chose to do nothing, and it 
> created a PR disaster for them. On top of that, when you sent one in, you 
> didn't always get one of the same size back, and sometimes you got another 
> 75GXP which had the same potential as the one you sent in.  Eventually they 
> did issue a recall, but not soon enough to make anyone happy.  The 75GXPs came 
> in a lot of different sizes, and was a very popular drive in the corporate 
> setting for desktops.
>
> The technology in them was only used on that particular drive model and is not 
> used in any of the Hitachis period, never was, that problem was well before 
> IBM sold the division to Hitachi. You wont get this type of failure, they 
> don't use the same technology and materials now.
>
> ----
>
> The whole reason they tried the glass platters in the first place was to fix a 
> problem with distortion of shape in aluminum platters.  If you have an 
> electric mixer at home, put some pancake batter in it and spin it quickly in 
> either direction by hand without the beaters in it. Notice what happens? The 
> batter that was level gets pushed to the sides of the container, and the 
> center is now lower than the sides as the material has been pushed to the 
> edges.  The same thing happens on a smaller scale to aluminum when its 
> spinning at a much faster speed, it literally becomes out of shape in places 
> and it wasn't a problem you could just add more mass to the platter to fix - 
> more mass just meant it happened even faster and was a lot more energy to spin 
> up - less mass was more desireable, but that warped quickly at higher speeds 
> and made the coatings they were using less reliable. At the time all makers 
> were having problems with this distortion (and they still are). Glass seemed 
> like a good idea at the time, it didn't compress like the aluminum did, so 
> they figured it wouldn't spread out, and in their testing it didn't. But what 
> they didn't figure on was that the forces were enough over time to make some 
> areas of it brittle, the same centrifigal force was still in play, but the 
> energy didn't have a handy outlet as it was working against the bonds in the 
> glass constantly.  Accelerated wear teting failed to catch it, and the rest is 
> history.
>
> It seemed like the perfect material, easy to work with, able to make it 
> thinner, no compression, no expansion, desirable thermal properties, ability 
> to bake magnetic coatings into the glass for cheaper manufacture.
>
> IBM isn't alone in having a line of drives that went bad before their time. I 
> can remember multiple Seagates that were exceptionally craptastic in the 80's 
> and 90's (and did even less than IBM to resolve the problem I might add, worse 
> at a time when HD's cost far more than they do today). Maxtor had it's high 
> failure period. Western Digital had a couple bad models as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 


0
rod_speed (125)
6/1/2005 6:52:57 PM
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:52:57 +1000, someone posing as Rod Speed donned
fireproof bloomers and chiseled in the wall:

> "Timbertea" <timbusenet@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
> news:7dine.1087$RV5.584@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> Zed Pobre wrote:
>>> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
>>>>>models haven't had unusually high failure rates.
>>>>
>>>>Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
>>>>I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a belivable explanation
>>>>from them what went wrong and why the problem is gine now.
>>>
>>>
>>> What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?
> 
>> The 75GXP series IBM drives used a glass platter instead of the traditional 
>> aluminum with coating, they tried a new material, and over time it developed 
>> stress fractures that were simply not apparent in early testing.
> 
> Doesnt explain why the drive gone bad could
> normally be returned from the dead using the diag.
> 
> Only to fail again later, and usually again being revivable using the diag.
> 
> It also had some radical head designs, and there was a

Could you get this thing back on topic????

I'm not seeing anything here about hampsters, duct tape, beer, overweight
dancers or poodles!

C'mon, folks, get with it!

-- 
kai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com - www.perfectreign.com

kai:/> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
       To format a floppy, use "fdformat /dev/fd0" 
       and then "mkfs.minix /dev/fd0".
0
6/1/2005 7:37:49 PM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:40:02 -0700, messenjah wrote:

> I've had six of them go within the year, total crap. The Caviars are
> complete junk. Stick with Maxtor or Seagate.

I've got a 2.5GByte Western Digital Caviar (AC32500H), that's been going
fine since I bought it, way back in about 1997 (at a guess)...

Here it is:
$ grep hdb /etc/fstab
/dev/hdb8 /opt reiserfs notail 1 2
/dev/hdb7 /tmp reiserfs notail 1 2
/dev/hdb5 /usr/src reiserfs notail 1 2
/dev/hdb6 /var/spool reiserfs notail 1 2

No critical data there.



Beef.
0
beef (17)
6/1/2005 9:01:07 PM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave wrote:

> 
> Me wrote:
> 
>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:17:43 GMT, Old Bugger <grumpy@mailinator.com>
>>wrote:
> 
>>>I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a
>>>Fujitsu 40 gig unit.
> 
>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>the market, bar none.
> 
> I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one bigger than 1
> gig.

Oops! Are they really all that bad?

My hdc is a Fuji 6.4GB (MPF3102AT, from around 2002, I think).

I had a few intermittent problems with mine not being seen at boot time, a
couple of years ago. I put it down to a feeble PSU and maybe flaky
mainboard (BP6). It's ben faultless since I changed for a higher-rated PSU
and an Asus A7N8X-E.

> 
> But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
> Microscience, and Rodime?


Who? Not seen them yet...


Beef
0
beef (17)
6/1/2005 9:12:48 PM
On Mon, 23 May 2005 02:26:08 -0700, rantonrave wrote:

> 
> Me wrote:

> Are you confusing Fuji with Fujitsu?

I just did :-(


Beef
0
beef (17)
6/1/2005 9:14:26 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <pan.2005.06.01.21.12.43.741503@pas_de_SPAM_chez_moi.zz>,
Beef  <beef@pas_de_SPAM_chez_moi.zz> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave wrote:
>> But what do you think of other modern brands, like Tulin, Priam,
>> Microscience, and Rodime?
>
>Who? Not seen them yet...

Sounds to me like your sarcasm detector needs adjustment.

(Clue: the aforementioned hard-drive manufacturers went out of business long
ago.)

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCnjvkVgTKos01OwkRAtKdAJ9ymMvgkv/mZ+N6kxKMIO1xLCgV4ACgw6ur
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=mjhO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
0
salfter (232)
6/1/2005 10:44:33 PM
Timbertea wrote:
> 
.... snip ...
> 
> The 75GXP series IBM drives used a glass platter instead of the
> traditional aluminum with coating, they tried a new material, and
> over time it developed stress fractures that were simply not
> apparent in early testing. It also had some radical head designs,
> and there was a slightly higher rate of failure due to this, a
> trade off for increased speed.  Rather an issue an immediate
> recall as many of them would make it past their "useful" life
> (translation: warranty period), IBM chose to do nothing, and it
> created a PR disaster for them. On top of that, when you sent one
> in, you didn't always get one of the same size back, and
> sometimes you got another 75GXP which had the same potential as
> the one you sent in.  Eventually they did issue a recall, but not
> soon enough to make anyone happy.  The 75GXPs came in a lot of
> different sizes, and was a very popular drive in the corporate
> setting for desktops.
> 
> The technology in them was only used on that particular drive
> model and is not used in any of the Hitachis period, never was,
> that problem was well before IBM sold the division to Hitachi.
> You wont get this type of failure, they don't use the same
> technology and materials now.
> 
> ----
> 
> The whole reason they tried the glass platters in the first place
> was to fix a problem with distortion of shape in aluminum platters. 
> If you have an electric mixer at home, put some pancake batter in
> it and spin it quickly in either direction by hand without the
> beaters in it. Notice what happens? The batter that was level gets
> pushed to the sides of the container, and the center is now lower
> than the sides as the material has been pushed to the edges.  The
> same thing happens on a smaller scale to aluminum when its
> spinning at a much faster speed, it literally becomes out of shape
> in places and it wasn't a problem you could just add more mass to
> the platter to fix - more mass just meant it happened even faster
> and was a lot more energy to spin up - less mass was more
> desireable, but that warped quickly at higher speeds and made the
> coatings they were using less reliable. At the time all makers
> were having problems with this distortion (and they still are).
> Glass seemed like a good idea at the time, it didn't compress like
> the aluminum did, so they figured it wouldn't spread out, and in
> their testing it didn't. But what they didn't figure on was that
> the forces were enough over time to make some areas of it brittle,
> the same centrifigal force was still in play, but the energy
> didn't have a handy outlet as it was working against the bonds in
> the glass constantly.  Accelerated wear teting failed to catch it,
> and the rest is history.
> 
> It seemed like the perfect material, easy to work with, able to
> make it thinner, no compression, no expansion, desirable thermal
> properties, ability to bake magnetic coatings into the glass for
> cheaper manufacture.
> 
> IBM isn't alone in having a line of drives that went bad before
> their time. I can remember multiple Seagates that were exceptionally
> craptastic in the 80's and 90's (and did even less than IBM to
> resolve the problem I might add, worse at a time when HD's cost
> far more than they do today). Maxtor had it's high failure period.
> Western Digital had a couple bad models as well.

A nice exposition of the causes and thought processes behind them. 
I would conclude that one is generally better off, in reliability
terms, by getting slower drives.  That should make 5400 RPM quite
desirable.  As far as I am concerned speeds remain more than
adequate.

-- 
 Some informative links:
   news:news.announce.newusers
   http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
   http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
   http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
   http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html


0
cbfalconer (19194)
6/1/2005 10:59:16 PM
On 01 Jun 2005 22:44:33 GMT, salfter@salfter.diespammersdie.dyndns.org
(Scott Alfter) wrote:

>>Who? Not seen them yet...
>
>Sounds to me like your sarcasm detector needs adjustment.
>
>(Clue: the aforementioned hard-drive manufacturers went out of business long

So he'd be waiting for the aforementioned hard drive to show up as he
said "...yet"  I hope he has something to do to pass the long wait. =)

Speaking of extinct or obsecure drive manufactors, whatever happened
to Winchester?  I have a huge hard drive sitting around gathering dust
because I don't know how to hook it up or what its power requirement
is.  It's 50MB but weights like a typical sack of cement mix and
probably has power requirement that would melt my house's fuse panel.
-- 
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late.    - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
0
impmon (42)
6/1/2005 11:31:35 PM
Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> writes:

> On 01 Jun 2005 22:44:33 GMT, salfter@salfter.diespammersdie.dyndns.org
> (Scott Alfter) wrote:
>
>>>Who? Not seen them yet...
>>
>>Sounds to me like your sarcasm detector needs adjustment.
>>
>>(Clue: the aforementioned hard-drive manufacturers went out of business long
>
> So he'd be waiting for the aforementioned hard drive to show up as he
> said "...yet"  I hope he has something to do to pass the long wait. =)
>
> Speaking of extinct or obsecure drive manufactors, whatever happened
> to Winchester?  I have a huge hard drive sitting around gathering dust
> because I don't know how to hook it up or what its power requirement
> is.  It's 50MB but weights like a typical sack of cement mix and
> probably has power requirement that would melt my house's fuse panel.

Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives made by IBM,
but became a generic term for a hard drive.  The name somehow derives
from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
6/2/2005 1:30:49 AM
Beef <beef@pas_de_SPAM_chez_moi.zz> writes:

> On Sat, 21 May 2005 05:45:54 -0700, rantonrave wrote:
>
>> 
>> Me wrote:
>> 
>>>On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:17:43 GMT, Old Bugger <grumpy@mailinator.com>
>>>wrote:
>> 
>>>>I have only had 1 drive fail over the past 10 years.  It was a
>>>>Fujitsu 40 gig unit.
>> 
>>>Oh, and God couldn't keep a Fuji drive up and running for long.
>>>From what I've read in the reviews Fuji drives are the worst on
>>>the market, bar none.
>> 
>> I've never seen a review of a Fuji drive or heard of one bigger than 1
>> gig.
>
> Oops! Are they really all that bad?
>
> My hdc is a Fuji 6.4GB (MPF3102AT, from around 2002, I think).

The drive of that model number is a 10GB Fujitsu.  One of the many
Fuji companies makes aluminum disks to be used in hard drives, but
there's no way of telling what's inside a given drive.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
6/2/2005 1:34:51 AM
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 03:30:49 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=
<mru@inprovide.com> wrote:

>Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives made by IBM,
>but became a generic term for a hard drive.  The name somehow derives
>from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.

30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.


-- 

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

0
spam5137 (27)
6/2/2005 7:35:25 AM
Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
news:429eb692.60489078@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= <mru@inprovide.com> wrote

>> Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives
>> made by IBM, but became a generic term for a hard drive.
>> The name somehow derives from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.

> 30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.

Wrong. 


0
rod_speed (125)
6/2/2005 10:26:42 AM
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> writes:

> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
> news:429eb692.60489078@news-server.houston.rr.com...
>> =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= <mru@inprovide.com> wrote
>
>>> Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives
>>> made by IBM, but became a generic term for a hard drive.
>>> The name somehow derives from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.
>
>> 30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.
>
> Wrong. 

That explanation can be found on various places on the net.  A little
googling will, however, lead you to an IBM page [1] with a different
story.  The drive had two spindles, each holding 30MB.

1. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
6/2/2005 12:41:35 PM
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:41:35 +0200, M�ns Rullg�rd wrote:

> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
>> news:429eb692.60489078@news-server.houston.rr.com...
>>> =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= <mru@inprovide.com> wrote
>>
>>>> Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives
>>>> made by IBM, but became a generic term for a hard drive.
>>>> The name somehow derives from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.
>>
>>> 30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.
>>
>> Wrong. 
> 
> That explanation can be found on various places on the net.  A little
> googling will, however, lead you to an IBM page [1] with a different
> story.  The drive had two spindles, each holding 30MB.
> 
> 1. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html

I wonder what kind of beer they drank while coming up with that. 

Hard drive beer?


-- 
kai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com - www.perfectreign.com

kai:/> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
       To format a floppy, use "fdformat /dev/fd0" 
       and then "mkfs.minix /dev/fd0".
0
6/2/2005 12:57:27 PM
PerfectReign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:41:35 +0200, M�ns Rullg�rd wrote:
>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
>>> news:429eb692.60489078@news-server.houston.rr.com...
>>>> =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= <mru@inprovide.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>> Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives
>>>>> made by IBM, but became a generic term for a hard drive.
>>>>> The name somehow derives from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.
>>>
>>>> 30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.
>>>
>>> Wrong. 
>> 
>> That explanation can be found on various places on the net.  A little
>> googling will, however, lead you to an IBM page [1] with a different
>> story.  The drive had two spindles, each holding 30MB.
>> 
>> 1. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html
>
> I wonder what kind of beer they drank while coming up with that. 

Well, we all know it's bad to drink and drive.

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
6/2/2005 1:00:36 PM
M�ns Rullg�rd <mru@inprovide.com> wrote in message
news:yw1xu0khx75s.fsf@ford.inprovide.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> writes
>> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote
>>> =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= <mru@inprovide.com> wrote

>>>> Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives
>>>> made by IBM, but became a generic term for a hard drive.
>>>> The name somehow derives from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.

>>> 30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.

>> Wrong.

> That explanation can be found on various places on the net.  A
> little googling will, however, lead you to an IBM page [1] with a
> different story.  The drive had two spindles, each holding 30MB.

> 1. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html

Correct. 


0
rod_speed (125)
6/2/2005 7:15:20 PM
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> writes:

> Bob <spam@spamcop.com> wrote in message
> news:429eb692.60489078@news-server.houston.rr.com...
>> =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= <mru@inprovide.com> wrote
>
>>> Winchester was a name originally applied to some drives
>>> made by IBM, but became a generic term for a hard drive.
>>> The name somehow derives from the Winchester 30-30 rifle.
>
>> 30 MB capacity, 30 msec seek time.
>
> Wrong. 

That explanation can be found in various places on the net.  A little
googling will, however, lead you to an IBM page [1] with a different
story.  The drive had two spindles, each holding 30MB.

1. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3340.html

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@inprovide.com
0
mru10 (361)
6/2/2005 7:23:29 PM
"Timbertea" <timbusenet@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:7dine.1087$RV5.584@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com
> Zed Pobre wrote:
> > Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > > The Deskstar 75GXP and 60GXP were disasters, but (AFAIK) the recent
> > > > models haven't had unusually high failure rates.
> > > 
> > > Some people seem to still make bad experiences with them. Personally
> > > I will stay away from IBM/Hitachi until I see a believable explanation
> > > from them what went wrong and why the problem is gone now.
> > 
> > 
> > What problems have you had with Hitachi drives?
> > 
> 
> The 75GXP series IBM drives used a glass platter instead of the
> traditional aluminum with coating, 

So did SCSI drives before that and so did several drive series after 
the 75gxp.

> they tried a new material, and over
> time it developed stress fractures that were simply not apparent in
> early testing. It also had some radical head designs, and there was a
> slightly higher rate of failure due to this, a trade off for increased speed. 

That's a load of bullshit. 

> Rather an issue an immediate recall as many of them would make
> it past their "useful" life (translation: warranty period), IBM chose to
> do nothing, and it created a PR disaster for them. On top of that, when
> you sent one in, you didn't always get one of the same size back, and
> sometimes you got another 75GXP which had the same potential as the one
> you sent in.  Eventually they did issue a recall, but not soon enough to
> make anyone happy.  The 75GXPs came in a lot of different sizes, and was
> a very popular drive in the corporate setting for desktops.
> 
> The technology in them was only used on that particular drive model and
> is not used in any of the Hitachis period, never was, that problem was
> well before IBM sold the division to Hitachi. 

Bull.

> You wont get this type of failure, they don't use the same technology 
> and materials now.

Nonsense.

> 
> ----
> 
> The whole reason they tried the glass platters in the first place was to
> fix a problem with distortion of shape in aluminum platters.  

Nope, false again.

[rest of bullshit snipped]
0
6/17/2005 8:19:32 PM
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Hi. I am trying to make an image of my freshly reformatted Western Digital 40 GB 7200 rpm HDD. I am useing Windows 98 SE and just FYI Motherboard=Abit BH6 Processor=Intel Tualatin 1.4Ghz Celron RAM=512 MB PC100 SDRAM Hard Drive 1=WD 40GB 7200RPM Hard Drive 2=Maxtor 80GB 7200RPM Sound=Soundblaster 64PCI CDRW=Norcent 52x32x52 Video= ATI Radeon 8500DV No matter whether I use the rescue disks or the Drive Image software itself, I keep getting this error on reboot Error #91 I have gone to the Norton website only to find that I need to clear my MBR useing the a:\>fdisk /...

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Western Digital WD3200JB (8M cache, but not the fancy RAID edition.) Has anyone tried these? Can anyone comment on their reliability? They cost about the same as a 300Gb drive (from any manufacturer), and, all other things being equal, the extra 20Gb is worth having. In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage A. J. Moss <ajmoss@macpaint.fsworld.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > Western Digital WD3200JB (8M cache, but not the fancy RAID edition.) > Has anyone tried these? Can anyone comment on their reliability? They are a bit too new for that. Ask again in 2 years or so. > The...

Western Digital Hard Drive New
I ran the basic new hard drive with: In the lower windowpane on the right hand side, you should see unallocated space for the drive. Right-click anywhere on the unallocated space to see a menu of available options. Click on Create Partition The Create Partition Wizard will appear. Click on Next. Leave Primary partition selected and click Next. Choose the partition size and click Next. Leave Assign a drive letter. selected and click Next. Leave Format this partition with the following settings: selected and choose the file system you want. Select Perform a quick format a...

Western Digital 160GB + Noisey Hard Drive
I have a few questions. First how long does a hard disk last. I got an ex office computer which I knew was left switched on all the time at an office. Anyway when I got it and turned it on it was very noisey. I assumed it was the fan and/or the hard drive. Anyway it came with a 10 gig hard drive and i definitely wanted more. So I got a western digital 160gb and when I turned it on without the 10gigI could hardly here it - brilliant. That was 9 months ago and now the new drive is starting to get a little noisey. Its kind of high pitched constant drone. I assume it is the bearings or s...

FA: 60gig Western Digital Hard Drive
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5128013656 PS - i have a bunch of 6.4 gig hard drives for sale too, 5 for $50 to email me go to my auction and click the "HERE" in the description. ...

Western Digital hard drive lost power
Hello, It seems as though I have a hard-drive that has lost power ... I cannot hear it spinning and cannot access the 3 volumes on it. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with this type hard-drive failure and who (what company) would be a reliable source for recovering the data. The drive is a Western Digital IDE 40gb, Thanks, Roger roger <rogerh@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:jdKUd.9944$Ba3.1734@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > It seems as though I have a hard-drive that has lost power ... I cannot hear > it spinning and cannot acce...

Western Digital ATA Hard Drive with 10,000RPM
What do you think about the new Western Digital 74GB Serial ATA Hard Drive with 10,000 RPM? -- Ryan Atici atici_ryan_osmanli@hotpop.com To send email, remove _osmanli "Ryan Atici" <atici_ryan_OSMANLI@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:2gt85gF69mnaU1@uni-berlin.de... > What do you think about the new Western Digital 74GB Serial ATA Hard Drive > with 10,000 RPM? They rock! > > What do you think about the new Western Digital 74GB Serial ATA Hard Drive > > with 10,000 RPM? > > They rock! Is the performance difference signifi...

Backup OS-9 hard drives on PC hardware.
When I was trying to back up my SyQuest EZ135 SCSI hard drive on a PC, I ran in to an interesting problem. I had the PC (parallel) version of the EZ135, and a SCSI version (hooked to my OS-9 machine). When I inserted a non-DOS formatted platter, the PC would not recognize it. The BIOS (or something) wanted the first sector to be PC-ish. So, my solution was to write a quick program in C to back up the first 512 bytes (sector) of the OS-9 disk, and copy the 512-byte sector from a PC disk to the OS-9 disk. This created an OS-9 disk (unusuable) that would be recognized by the PC. From...

Western Digital "My Book"
Hi I got a 160GB one on sale. MODEL: WDG1U1600N http://wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=217 I want to take out the hard drive to put in a computer. Then put another HD into the My Book enclosure. Is there any easy way to do this? I have it pried half way apart. I don't want to ruin it. Thanks ZD ...

Linux hard drive sequence ( Drive letter assignments )
Does Linux enumerate the hard drives in a different sequence than Windows? If I place a hard drive on my mobo's main primary IDE channel, it shows up as "C:" in Windows 2000 (the first hard drive), but as "/hde" in Linux. To get it to show up as "/hda", I need to place it on my mobo's primary IDE RAID channel (which is an on-board HighPoint). - David D P.S., I initially posted this is a different ng, but then decided that this ng would be more appropriate. My apologies for the cross-post. "David D." <daviddiamond.remove-if-not-spam@...

External Hard Drive (USB) recognizes hardware but not drives
I pulled a IBM Travelstar disk from a T21 (I know it works fine, the problem on the laptop was with the motherboard). I connected it to a Argosy HD260 external hard disk case (USB connection). On connecting to an XP box, the system recognizes an IBM-DJSA-220 USB Device, but no drive letter appear (the disk was used on Win2K, so I assume it is NTFS, and has two partitions). How can I see the two volumes on the disk to access the data? Thanks <aribloch@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1164540238.912622.152430@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > I pulled a IBM Travelstar disk from a T21 (I know it works fine, the > problem on the laptop was with the motherboard). I connected it to a > Argosy HD260 external hard disk case (USB connection). On connecting to > an XP box, the system recognizes an IBM-DJSA-220 USB Device, but no > drive letter appear (the disk was used on Win2K, so I assume it is > NTFS, and has two partitions). > > How can I see the two volumes on the disk to access the data? > > Thanks aribloch: These USB external HDD non-recognition problems in the XP environment have been a source of continuing irritation (not to say aggravation) to many of us. For what it's worth we've put together a kind of checklist for troubleshooting this kind of problem which I've listed below. But before getting to them you might want to try the following... I'm assuming your reference ...

Lacie D2 ethernet drive or western digitals NAS drive
I have the Lacie D2 eithernet drive and can see it on the network and connect to it, but cannot get this to reconnect when either powering up or rebooting. I have to got Finder, then find server than connect to the IP address and connect from there. I did try an alias but I dont want a shortcut on the desktop all I want is the drive name to show up on the desktop. I want to do this all through the Mac OS, I do NOT want to use Lacie's software. I have even called Applecare twice and explained it thoroughly and they say its Lacie's problem, Called Lacie and they say its Apples ...

Hardware hard in Linux?
OK, here's the scenario. Dual boot box consisting of a P4P-800-E DLX, Nvidia video card, printer, scanner, bells, whistles, and it's something I'm proud of. The Linux side is running Slack 10.2 with a custom 2.6.16 kernel and gware Gnome for the desktop. Mrs. Phist decided to buy me a wireless keyboard and mouse since my old ones are almost five years old and I've beaten them all to hell. She's not the most tech savvy person in the world and just went to Best Buy and got a Microsoft keyboard/mouse combo for about $40 CAN. Not a bad deal, but I'm going from PS2 wired k...

new hard drive + old hard drive
I think I need you guys help here. My old custom-built computer's hard drive is running out of space and it's messed up and registry doesn't look good. I was given used 20GB and try to install as local(bootable) hard drive(C:) and want to use old hard drive(13GB) as back-up storage(F:) I have XP installed now and have a CD for XP and want to clean install on new 20GB. I know to how to hook up and set up master and slave and configure bios etc and install XP with clean installation. What I want to find out is I want to use the program in old hard drive. As far as I know,I...

Creating a hard drive image
Hi, I have never seen this sort of hardware setup before (setup sun and ia servers before, worked with old hardware before, but never saw this setup). What this site has is a rack of boards, that sort of look like old mainframe multiplexer controller boards ... but htis one rack has a SPARC board that connects to a box above it, which holds an enclosed hard drive, about 20 gb. It reportedly (couldnt connect to it one day to run commands to see exactly what it has hardware and software wise) is running 5.7 SunOS under a WinXP OS. It reportedly has five 4gb partitions, one or more of which m...

B&W G3
I just bought a B&W G3 with an early version of OSX installed. I was going to put OS 9 on it so I could use Classic, but when I boot off the OS 9.1 CD, it doesn't recognize the hard drive and asks if I want to initialize it. I'm afraid I'd lose OSX if I do that. Are there some hard drives which OS X can detect which OS 9 can't? This is a 350 MHz G3 with 384 MB RAM and a Rev. B motherboard. The hard drive is a Quantum Fireball CX. I couldn't find a model number on it. It's an IDE drive and is divided into two partitions, both of which are about 6 GB according to th...

8668c hard drive is dead, wont accept any other hard drive
we had a power outage and i lost my WD 30gig, the recovery CD wont even format it, i tool a maxtore 6.4 from working pc and put it in the HP, the bios reads the maxtor but all i see after that is a flashing dot nothing more, nothing less. i took an old fujitsu 8.4 and did the recovery , smae thing happened , that flashing dot again should i use only WD or what is the problem exactly??? one more question, i tried to take that WD off the case to send it for warranty but it sounded like escaping from jail is much easier, the screws r soldered into the sheets and i cant it off, any help with that as well? thnx Check the drive jumper settings on any replacement drive. Make sure the drive is set to the master jumper setting. Next, enter the system BIOS setup and make sure that the drive has been detected properly by the BIOS. Then boot from a Windows setup diskette for your operating system, FDISK to create a FAT32 partition, reboot, FORMAT the partition, then try the recovery... Ben Myers On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 03:27:29 GMT, "cell phone repair" <noneishere@cellrepair.us> wrote: >we had a power outage and i lost my WD 30gig, the recovery CD wont even >format it, i tool a maxtore 6.4 from working pc and put it in the HP, the >bios reads the maxtor but all i see after that is a flashing dot nothing >more, nothing less. > >i took an old fujitsu 8.4 and did the recovery , smae thing happened , that >flashing dot again > >should i ...

Premade external hard drive or internal hard drive with enclosure?
Hi, My WD mybook external hardrive died, and now i need a new one for my laptop (which has th elaptop firewire conneciton, which isn't the same as the pc firewire connection that most external harddrives come with, thus need to use usb) So I'm thinking of getting the following toshiba 320 gb external ( see link below). However I have also been considering getting a regular internal harddrive and enclosure. would this be better in terms of reliability and speed? How difficult is this to set up? If this is better any recommendations for a 300-500 gb drive and enclosure? T...

Linux cannot see hard drive
Hi guys, I have a problem with my linux install that is driving me up the wall, please help! The problem lies with my hard disks and partitions. Brief Machine spec: AMD Athlon 1800+ XP 640MB RAM 40GB IDE HDD (Connected to primary IDE port on MoBo) 40GB SCSI HDD (Connected to Hewlett Packard RAID card) Dual Boot SuSE 9.1 Pro / Win XP Pro KDE 3.3.3 I originally had the following partitions: SCSI Disk --------- Windows XP (C:\ Drive) - NTFS Shared Data - NTFS IDE Disk -------- SuSE Swap - Swap SuSE / - Reiser Everything was running great until I decided to reformat the Shared Data partition to use FAT32 so that data could be more reliably shared between SuSE and Windows. I formatted the partition as FAT32 using Windows but when I booted to SuSE the partition is no longer available. Not only is the partition not available but it would appear the Linux no longer sees the whole SCSI HDD. If I try mounting the drive using mount /dev/sdax /mnt I recieve an error: mount: /dev/sdax is not a valid block device. The output of fdisk -l only shows the IDE HDD (hda). I'm at work at the moment so I can't actually post the output. I know that the SCSI is connected properly and working fine as Windows boots from this drive and Windows can see all the partitions no probs. Also, if I run the SuSE install program (from the boot CD) the partitioning recommended by YaST includes the SCSI drive with all its partitions so I'm conv...

Are Western Digital drives reliable?
I has a Fujitsu 6Gb HDsix years, never had a problem with it, no bad sectors or anything. Had my Western 80Gb 7 months and it's developing bad sectors. Am I just unlucky to get a bad HD? Was made in Malaysia. Western is sending me a replacement. My experience with Western Digital is that they are very reliable and compatible. It sounds like you either had bad luck or did something to the drive yourself. Drives can be damaged by static electricity or moving them while they are running or bumping them or dropping them or not having sufficient cooling inside the case ... ...

OS on an external hard drive ?
Hi, does anyone know if it is possible to run a laptop using an alternative operating system on an external hard drive? Effectively running the hard drive as a separate computer using the patop's keyboard etc. Any advice would be welcome Thanks Rick "Rick Savery" <ricksavery@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:fcE3h.2706$YA3.1483@newsfe7-win.ntli.net... > Hi, does anyone know if it is possible to run a laptop using an > alternative > operating system on an external hard drive? Effectively running the hard > drive as a separate computer using the laptop's keyboard etc. > Any advice would be welcome > Thanks > Rick > To keep it easy, it all depends on the motherboard BIOS options. If the BIOS options are not there to boot from USB or Fiberwire then you are usually out of luck unless you use a form of dual boot setup on your primary hard drive. Go to your BIOS settings and see what choices you have for boot devices, and see if they be set to boot in your choice starting order. On some you can choose to have a USB device as your first choice to boot from, rather than say the CDROM or IDE Drive. If the computer detects a valid USB drive it will boot from the OS contained on it. You might need to temporarily set the boot order to allow CDROM first and USB Second with no other devices in order to force the motherboard to allow installing the OS of your choice on the USB drive. When the USB drive is configured you should set the...

hard drive power sequencer, hard drive startup sequencer
Does anyone make a power sequencer that could be used to startup hard drives sequentially rather than all at once? I'd like to put 4 HDs in my PC, and I don't want to load the power supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same time. *TimDaniels* For IDE drives? Nope, can't be done. They only draw 2A @ 12v, so you only need a 250W power supply. "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:BfidnXwxc52mqciiXTWJkw@comcast.com... | Does anyone make a power sequencer that | could be used to startup hard drives sequentially | rathe...

External hard drives and linux
Hi experts/wizards/gurus, I'm considering getting an external drive for my laptop (dual boot, WinXP/Debian Sarge, GRUB with the WinXP bootloader moved to some partition or other, not sure which one). Any recommendations, warnings, gotchas? E.g. is there any chance of Linux incompatibility? How well does cfdisk and/or parted work? Will manually partitioning the drive make it hard to use the Windows backup software? How reliable are the things, and what kind of performance can I expect over USB 1.1 ? I'm considering the Seagate 300 GB, $200 after rebates from Fry's, or a cheape...

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