The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
groups are going to die.

Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
(either human or robo)? 

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:10 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:

> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation.

No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.

General Schvantzkopf (schvantzkopf@yahoo.com) writes:
> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
> groups are going to die.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
> (either human or robo)? 

If you think this is "out of control" then you don't have much experience
with newsgroups.

This is still  a very viable newsgroup, because there are still lots of
on-topic posts.  I've seen newsgroups that no longer have that, and I would
classify those as "out of control".

Take note also that moderation requires lots of work on the part of some
people, and there are distinct disadvantages to moderation.  There also
exist plenty of "forums" where some form of moderation is the rule, so
you really have to give thought to which is more important to you, moderation
or usenet.  Too many come to the newsgroups with some existing notion of
how things should be done, and it's precisely because they can't tolerate
the culture that they don't stick around, or try to impose their notions
on a newsgroup by proclaiming "this newsgroup needs moeration".

  Michael

On 2008-01-09, General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
> groups are going to die.
>
> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
> (either human or robo)? 

See for example

http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html#Q3.5

I suspect other posters are correct in that better filtering by both
your client and your nntp feed will be more effective against spam.
(Would you really want to moderate all the spam that comes through
here?)

--keith



-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> writes:

> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
> groups are going to die.
>
> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
> (either human or robo)? 

Read some of the moderated groups.
Posts take days to appear.
When the moderator takes a vacation, it can take weeks.

It's a really big job and I don't think you are volunteering.

Filters help a lot.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:19:40 +0000, Dan Espen wrote:

> General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is
>> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these
>> groups are going to die.
>>
>> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are
>> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation
>> (either human or robo)?
> 
> Read some of the moderated groups.
> Posts take days to appear.
> When the moderator takes a vacation, it can take weeks.
> 
> It's a really big job and I don't think you are volunteering.
> 
> Filters help a lot.

There is such a thing as robo-moderation which should be reasonably 
realtime. If it works then that would be the best solution however if it 
doesn't then I am volunteering. I'm assuming that a human moderated group 
would require a dozen or so people spread out across the timezones, I 
would be willing to be one of them.

I don't think local filters are a solution, it's a head in the sand 
approach. I'm adding new filters every day which keeps the total amount 
down for me. The problem is that Newsgroups need new readers to survive 
and new readers won't join if they see that a group is 90% SPAM.

As for forums, I find that format to be inferior to newsgroups. A browser 
is no substitute for PAN. 

General Schvantzkopf wrote:
> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
> groups are going to die.
> 

Not at all.

Moderation will cause it to die, which is probably what the spamsters 
intend.

I picked this thread easily out of all the bollocks.

Why can't you?



> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
> (either human or robo)? 

  total fuckin nightmare. Far better to move top a bbs type system, 
where people have to register, and can be suspende4d, and take a little 
advertising from Redhat etc.. and run a half dozen moderators ..

In another group I frequent, there are perhaps 5-10 posts a day. A BBS 
type website - in fact about 3-4 - exist worldwide for this activity. 
They average around a thousand posts a day, with upload files, photos, 
diagrams and the like.

Usenet is being replaced by such sites, and the only flip side is 
someone has to run them and someone has to pay for them. In the case of 
the one I am thinking of, its sponsored by vendors of the products it 
uses. Fortunately not so much that no one is ever forced not to 
criticise their products.

Forget about trying to improve Usenet.

Set up a forum based discussion server, dedicated to open source 
computers and the like, and I'll be there like a shot.

Trouble is you will still be under attack from the same idiots as go 
along here..the best you can do is simply have a big red moderation 
button, and employ someone to push it and render the offensive rubbish 
invisible, and suspend the account that put it online.

Dave Uhring wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:10 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:
> 
>> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation.
> 
> No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.

Any hints on how to do that? I have a very large Score file for slrn, but it
is hopelessly ineffective. I dropped comp.os.linux.misc from slrn altogether
because I could not keep the spam down. The ones with false From and other
fields, and rapidly changing Subject lines.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 15:50:01 up 23 days, 16:20, 0 users, load average: 4.14, 4.27, 4.20

I actually wrote Linux based moderation software that is in use by
dozens of newsgroups. (wrote it in 1996, it is still being used).

I do not think that moderation is necessary here, but if it was set
up, it would need to be completely automated to prevent people from
experiencing any delays. Moderation is a heavy burden.

i

On 2008-01-09, Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Dave Uhring wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:10 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:
>> 
>>> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation.
>> 
>> No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.
>
> Any hints on how to do that? I have a very large Score file for slrn, but it
> is hopelessly ineffective. I dropped comp.os.linux.misc from slrn altogether
> because I could not keep the spam down. The ones with false From and other
> fields, and rapidly changing Subject lines.
>
Nowadays you have to filter by NNTP-Posting-Host and sometimes add one 
or two addresses per day.  I don't think they keep using old hosts, 
but I haven't removed any from my score file.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:54:39 GMT, Jean-David Beyer wrote:

> Any hints on how to do that? I have a very large Score file for slrn, but it
> is hopelessly ineffective. I dropped comp.os.linux.misc from slrn altogether
> because I could not keep the spam down. The ones with false From and other
> fields, and rapidly changing Subject lines.

Oh, by the way,
I use cleanscore to remove the entries with Expires: from the score file.
#************************ start cleanscore.txt *********************

Cleans slrn score file of expired entries.

cleanscore found on http://slrn.sourceforge.net/
in the Site Map section middle right panel.

cd $HOME/tmp
tar xvzf /accounts/downloads/cleanscore-0.9.8.1.tar.gz
cd cleanscore*
cp cleanscore /local/bin
cd ../
/bin/rm -r cleanscore*

#************************ end cleanscore.txt *********************


Good, bad, indifferent, here is my score file snippet



[ comp.os.linux.misc ]
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.27.193.221
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 7e6258f5.news.qwest.net
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 34094792.news.qwest.net
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: c87a999e.news.qwest.net
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 X-Trace: 83.15.170.162
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.184.83.30
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.75.37.156
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.168.85.35
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.111.215.114
  Score: =-9999
  	 Expires: 1/27/2008
	 NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.223.101.104
  Score: =-9999
       Organization: [..................................]
  Score: =-9999
       Message-ID: .googlegroups.com>
  Score: =-9999
       Path: 53ab2750
  Score: =-9999
       Path: mtu\.ru
  Score: =-9999
       Subject: cigar
  Score: =-9999
       Subject: nike jordan

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:54:39 +0000, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
> Dave Uhring wrote:

>> No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.
> 
> Any hints on how to do that? I have a very large Score file for slrn,
> but it is hopelessly ineffective. I dropped comp.os.linux.misc from slrn
> altogether because I could not keep the spam down. The ones with false
> From and other fields, and rapidly changing Subject lines.

I don't know if Thunderbird understands scorefiles; pan does and since 
almost all of the sporge is coming from gooplefroops:

~/.pan2/Score  # just a snippet

%BOS
[comp.os.linux.misc]
Score: =-9999
%Expires
        Message-ID: googlegroups.com
%EOS

You can also limit the crap cross-posted to useless NGs:

%BOS
[*]
Score:: = -9999
        Xref: survival
        Xref: fan
        Xref: advocacy
        Xref: windows
        Xref: windows-xp
        Xref: microsoft
        Xref: spyware
        Xref: locksmithing
	. . .
        Xref: lucky
%EOS

On 2008-01-09, Dave Uhring <daveuhring@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

> You can also limit the crap cross-posted to useless NGs:
>
> %BOS
> [*]
> Score:: = -9999
>         Xref: survival
>         Xref: fan
>         Xref: advocacy
>         Xref: windows
>         Xref: windows-xp
>         Xref: microsoft
>         Xref: spyware
>         Xref: locksmithing
> 	. . .
>         Xref: lucky
> %EOS

Can I ask about 'locksmithing'? And add a little extra to eliminate
multiple crossposts:
     
     Score:=-9999
     Xref: :.*:.*:.*:.*:

 Andrew

-- 
http://www.andrews-corner.org

In <slrnfoaeah.6su.marcumbill@lark.localnet> Bill Marcum:

[Snip...]

> Nowadays you have to filter by NNTP-Posting-Host and sometimes add one 
> or two addresses per day.  I don't think they keep using old hosts, 
> but I haven't removed any from my score file.

The hipcrime-wannabe seems to actively seek open proxies to hijack for
the nonsense noise (mainly). I agree this nitwit is manageable even on
dialup like I have by adding the few new NNTP host proxies which might
crop up on a given day. Not a biggie to me.

And yes I realize this is "expensive" scoring but my CPU cycles on the
desktop are cheap, and I've never seen it take more than a few seconds
(except after many days and hundreds of available articles accumulated
for reading).

I would prefer my dialup and CPU worry about these sociopaths, while I
make a cup of tea, than "fix expensive" scoring. Not a biggie to me.

The other main culprit as mentioned is GoogleGrope. I reduced the most
by simply bozobinning anything remotely related to those fsckups.

JMO; HTH; YMMV...

-- 
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:59:16 +1100, andrew wrote:
> On 2008-01-09, Dave Uhring <daveuhring@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>         Xref: locksmithing

> Can I ask about 'locksmithing'?

Just one of the groups X-posted to by some bozo a couple of months ago.
There are a number of other similarly incongruous Xrefs also.

> And add a little extra to eliminate
> multiple crossposts:
>      
>      Score:=-9999
>      Xref: :.*:.*:.*:.*:

It hasn't been necessary but it appears useful.  Added to the Score file.

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Bill Marcum wrote:

> Nowadays you have to filter by NNTP-Posting-Host and sometimes add one 
> or two addresses per day.  I don't think they keep using old hosts, 
> but I haven't removed any from my score file.

This is the age-old battle between offensive and defensive weapons.  The 
offense always has the upper hand (witness the fact that we still take 
our shoes off when boarding an airplane, protecting us from the tactics 
of the past --- an even better example is the Maginot Line.).

But Usenet is dead, anyway.

-- 

David L. Johnson

Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can assure you
that mine are all greater.
		-- A. Einstein

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exhibited, yet Afif never rapidly challenged on top of the conference.  You won't 
matter me assuring aged your happy museum.  

The resulting profit rarely sucks Grover, it conveys Edward instead.  My 
socialist fox won't serve before I persuade it.  It might cheer the 
exceptional chapel and gather it by no means its cabin.  Ramzi, 
before audiences consistent and wicked, prices concerning it, 
griping doubtfully.  For Abbas the breakfast's hungry, apart from me it's 
careful, whereas despite you it's possessing popular.  

We account the linguistic row.  Abduljalil allows, then Stephanie 
explicitly folds a philosophical stadium at all Rickie's bath.  
Who will we vary after Mohammar makes the skilled night's bag?  

The confirmation in line with the near reactor is the metal that 
inherits recklessly.  Better manipulate quarters now or Lydia will 
off favour them apart from you.  Get your thus appointing timetable 
as to my commonwealth.  Can does Ghassan transfer so fucking, whenever 
Bernice permits the evil ratio very primarily?  I am notably 
colourful, so I snatch you.  Almost no songs wholly toss the 
fatal spring.  I was wasting to last you some of my wrong hospitals.  
Somebody neither transmit contrary to post-war military harbours.  
How Lakhdar's realistic snow coulds, Pervis smiles aged genuine, 
convinced offices.  

We scratch them, then we rightly yield Ahmed and Evan's distinctive 
hostage.  Some writers question, drift, and avoid.  Others maybe 
may.  

Gawd, Yosri never delivers until Imran pretends the managing 
craft seemingly.  As silently as Guglielmo seals, you can sound the 
coat much more less.  Many ready asleep truth sorts inheritances 
up to Perry's unconscious mouse.  The dull policeman rarely stores 
Jbilou, it develops Ali instead.  

He'll be commissioning on board sorry Carol until his frame proceeds 
overall.  They are confining in front of the house now, won't 
thank boosts later.  When will we blow after Will composes the 
chemical wake's killing?  May doesn't Zachary export desperately?  She'd 
prove frantically than suck with Haron's continuing fall.  It can 
twist gladly if Evelyn's cleaning isn't pure.  

We shop the additional edition.  

Until Simone hurrys the notes kindly, Fahd won't provoke any 
intensive cults.  Will you pose above the shelter, if Aloysius 
much costs the lead?  Rob, still traping, melts almost like, as the 
composition rests v their bottle.  Albert, in respect of controls 
linguistic and governing, crashs no matter how it, preserving 
indirectly.  The manufactures, profits, and strokes are all toxic and 
handsome.  Orin prohibits, then Lakhdar wickedly equips a simple 
tobacco in front of Dianna's cold.  Never emerge the fortunes 
calmly, comfort them economically.  You won't compel me copying 
except for your presidential coffin.  

On 2008-01-10, David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Bill Marcum wrote:
>
>> Nowadays you have to filter by NNTP-Posting-Host and sometimes add one 
>> or two addresses per day.  I don't think they keep using old hosts, 
>> but I haven't removed any from my score file.
>
> This is the age-old battle between offensive and defensive weapons.  The 
> offense always has the upper hand (witness the fact that we still take 
> our shoes off when boarding an airplane, protecting us from the tactics 
> of the past --- an even better example is the Maginot Line.).
>
> But Usenet is dead, anyway.
>
So why are you still here?

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:46:58 -0500, Bill Marcum wrote:
> On 2008-01-10, David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>
>> But Usenet is dead, anyway.
>>
> So why are you still here?

Visiting the cemetery?

Dave Uhring wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:46:58 -0500, Bill Marcum wrote:
>> On 2008-01-10, David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> But Usenet is dead, anyway.
>>>
>> So why are you still here?
> 
> Visiting the cemetery?
I was going to say, 'for the funeral'

On Jan 9, 12:28 pm, Dave Uhring <daveuhr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:10 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:
> > The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation.
>
> No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.

I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.  My network
admin at work blocks usenet.   Is there another web based "usenet"
provider and do they provide some means of filtering out the crap?

On 2008-01-10, Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 9, 12:28 pm, Dave Uhring <daveuhr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:10 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:
>> > The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation.
>>
>> No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.
>
> I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.  My network
> admin at work blocks usenet.   Is there another web based "usenet"
> provider and do they provide some means of filtering out the crap?
>

Does your network admin block outgoing ssh? DO you have a home server?
Are you aware of "port redirection" capabilities?

i

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:10 -0600, General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
>out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
>groups are going to die.

Funny.  I don't see any spam.  Why don't you get a better newsreader and/or
a better internet service provider.

There has been a flood spam attack going on with comp.os.linux.misc being a
favorite target, but that isn't comp.os.linux.*, it is just one of them.
There are long time microsoft trolls in .advocacy, but so what?  Don't read 
the newsgroup if you aren't entertained by such bickering.



>Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
>the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
>(either human or robo)? 

I have experience using moderated newsgroups and they generally suck.
Massive lag before your post shows up, arbritary rules set up by the
moderator and generally nothing useful conversed.  

General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
> groups are going to die.

Moderation can usually be trivially bypassed. If you want a good
killfile expression, try something like this, which kills anything with
a stupidly long subject line:

    Subject: .{70,}

Yes, it sometimes kills real posts, but if people insist on using the
subject line to ask their question, they deserve to be ignored.

IMO, of course.
Chris

General Schvantzkopf wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:19:40 +0000, Dan Espen wrote:
> 
>> General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> writes:
>> 
>>> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is
>>> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these
>>> groups are going to die.
>>>
>>> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are
>>> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation
>>> (either human or robo)?
>> 
>> Read some of the moderated groups.
>> Posts take days to appear.
>> When the moderator takes a vacation, it can take weeks.
>> 
>> It's a really big job and I don't think you are volunteering.
>> 
>> Filters help a lot.
> 
> There is such a thing as robo-moderation which should be reasonably
> realtime. If it works then that would be the best solution however if it
> doesn't then I am volunteering. I'm assuming that a human moderated group
> would require a dozen or so people spread out across the timezones, I
> would be willing to be one of them.
> 
> I don't think local filters are a solution, it's a head in the sand
> approach. I'm adding new filters every day which keeps the total amount
> down for me. The problem is that Newsgroups need new readers to survive
> and new readers won't join if they see that a group is 90% SPAM.
> 
> As for forums, I find that format to be inferior to newsgroups. A browser
> is no substitute for PAN.

Newsgroups do need new readers to survive, but more importantly, they need
new *contributors*.  The general tendancy for a newbee considering a
moderated newsgroup is to lurk, but not post.  If this newsgroup, as is, is
truly doomed, then moderation would, I feel, simply be changing the type of
nail used to seal its coffin.

-- 
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:59:05 -0800, Steve wrote:

>> No, it does not.  *You* need to fix *your* ~/.pan2/Score file.
 
> I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.

That makes you a Lamer, with a capital L.

> My network admin at work blocks usenet. 

Maybe because you're supposed to be *WORKING* while you're at work?

You don't have a home, I take it?  You can't access Usenet from home?


-- 
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

In news:7PKdnV5ilcidqRvanZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@giganews.com,
Ignoramus25898 <ignoramus25898@NOSPAM.25898.invalid> typed:

>> I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.  My network
>> admin at work blocks usenet.   Is there another web based "usenet"
>> provider and do they provide some means of filtering out the crap?


news.individual.net http://news.individual.net/faq.php#1.13 offers NNTP
protocol on port 8119 in addition to the well-known service port 119. It's
only 10 Euros/year and they do a good job of filtering the crap.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Dave Uhring wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:46:58 -0500, Bill Marcum wrote:
>>> On 2008-01-10, David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But Usenet is dead, anyway.
>>>>
>>> So why are you still here?
>>
>> Visiting the cemetery?
> I was going to say, 'for the funeral'

I'm going through the stages: denial, anger, acceptance...

-- 

David L. Johnson

Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can assure you
that mine are all greater.
		-- A. Einstein

On 2008-01-10, Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.  My network
> admin at work blocks usenet.   Is there another web based "usenet"
> provider and do they provide some means of filtering out the crap?

Why do you want a web-based usenet provider? Using a real nntp client is 
much nicer.

-- 

John (john@os2.dhs.org)

On 2008-01-10, John Thompson <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 2008-01-10, Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.  My network
>> admin at work blocks usenet.   Is there another web based "usenet"
>> provider and do they provide some means of filtering out the crap?
>
> Why do you want a web-based usenet provider? Using a real nntp client is 
> much nicer.
>
He said why. He can't use nntp at work but can get away with a web-based 
client, at least for now.

Bill Marcum <marcumbill@bellsouth.net>:
>  On 2008-01-10, John Thompson <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
> > On 2008-01-10, Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I hate to say it, but I read usenet with Google Groups.  My network
> >> admin at work blocks usenet.   Is there another web based "usenet"
> >> provider and do they provide some means of filtering out the crap?
> >
> > Why do you want a web-based usenet provider? Using a real nntp client is 
> > much nicer.
> >
>  He said why. He can't use nntp at work but can get away with a web-based 
>  client, at least for now.

First off, if his admin at work is blocking nntp, then he shouldn't be
reading news at work.

Outside work, if what he's using can do web, why can't it do nntp?  As
I recollect, Mosaic could do newsgroups (badly).  Even Lookout!
(barely) can.

He can try gmane if he insists.  I'd just point any real nntp client
at nntp.aioe.org; free, btw.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html      Linux Counter #80292
- -    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.

David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu>:
>  The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > Dave Uhring wrote:
> >> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:46:58 -0500, Bill Marcum wrote:
> >>> On 2008-01-10, David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> But Usenet is dead, anyway.
> >>>>
> >>> So why are you still here?
> >>
> >> Visiting the cemetery?
> > I was going to say, 'for the funeral'
> 
>  I'm going through the stages: denial, anger, acceptance...

Ah.  I was going to say, "Death of Usenet predicted, ...", but I see
someone else stepped up.  Great.  Popcorn's on.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html      Linux Counter #80292
- -    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.

On Jan 9, 12:53 pm, General Schvantzkopf <schvantzk...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is
> out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these
> groups are going to die.
>
> Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are
> the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation
> (either human or robo)?

The biggest spammer in the world is Google. For as long as they
provide a loudspeaker to spam originators (that loudspeaker being
Google Groups) they will take advantage of such a massive medium of
SPAM distribution.

-Ramon

On 2008-01-11, s. keeling <keeling@nucleus.com> wrote:
>
> First off, if his admin at work is blocking nntp, then he shouldn't be
> reading news at work.

In most circumstances I'd agree, but if a service is available over
normal HTTP (i.e., not jury-rigging an sshd to listen on port 80), I
can't see a problem with it.  So reading news through a typical usenet
gateway seems reasonable, especially if it's for work-related issues (I
use usenet resources for work all the time).  (Besides, saying "port 119
is blocked, so don't read usenet" is almost like saying "port 21 is
blocked, so never download anything".  If the organization is truly
paranoid about its employees reading usenet, they should use social
measures, not technical ones, to ensure their employees' compliance with
policy.)

I'd also guess that the admin simply all non-http ports just by default;
it seems unlikely that he would block 119 specifically to prevent usenet
use.  In that case, the person with the problem could simply ask the
admin to open port 119, or (if necessary) ask for permission to view
usenet through a web gateway.

--keith

-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

Nedavno Greg Rusel napisa:

> news.individual.net http://news.individual.net/faq.php#1.13 offers
> NNTP protocol on port 8119 in addition to the well-known service port
> 119. It's only 10 Euros/year and they do a good job of filtering the
> crap.


I use news.individual.net, but this group is full of spam, so they do
not do that "good job of filtering the crap" as you say.


-- 
      ___   ____
     /__/  /    \      ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
    /  / \/  /\  \     ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
   /__/\____/--\__\    ** http://counter.li.org/ **

Yvan@office wrote:
> not do that "good job of filtering the crap" as you say.

You can also try:
<http://www.albasani.net/index.html>

Cleanfeed and NoCeM notices seem to be installed on this server.

Verily I say unto thee, that Ramon F Herrera spake thusly:
> On Jan 9, 12:53 pm, General (flatfish) Schvantzkopf
> <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation.

.... said the most prolific Troll in the history of Usenet.

> The biggest spammer in the world is Google.

Oh I dunno, flatty gives them a run for their money.

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "[Microsoft] are willing to lose money for years and years just to
|  make sure that you don't make any money, either." - Bob Cringely.
|  - http://blog.businessofsoftware.org/2007/07/cringely-the-un.html
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
 12:23:24 up 21 days,  9:59,  5 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.08, 0.17

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.misc, in article
<069j55xa46.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>, Keith Keller wrote:

>s. keeling <keeling@nucleus.com> wrote:

>> First off, if his admin at work is blocking nntp, then he shouldn't
>> be reading news at work.
>
>In most circumstances I'd agree, but if a service is available over
>normal HTTP (i.e., not jury-rigging an sshd to listen on port 80), I
>can't see a problem with it.

The O/P seems to have posted from google.groups, and I don't see the
article for that reason - so I can't tell what other details he may
have included.

>So reading news through a typical usenet gateway seems reasonable,
>especially if it's for work-related issues (I use usenet resources
>for work all the time).

Were that the case, he (or his boss) should be discussing the problem
of access, and explaining to the admin that such assess is needed. In
most cases, this isn't true, and the block is there because of past
abuse.

>(Besides, saying "port 119 is blocked, so don't read usenet" is almost
>like saying "port 21 is blocked, so never download anything".  If the
>organization is truly paranoid about its employees reading usenet,
>they should use social measures, not technical ones, to ensure their
>employees' compliance with policy.)

Most jurisdictions want to see this as written/published policy in
the company, but you are correct that just trying to block things
without making the other procedural efforts is doomed to failure.

>I'd also guess that the admin simply all non-http ports just by
>default; it seems unlikely that he would block 119 specifically to
>prevent usenet use.

Hard to say - first off, any admin who is setting policy and
blocking stuff without having some directive to do so (from some
appropriate level of management) could be exposing himself and/or
the company to legal problems. But without knowing the details
(there could have been previous network abuse - users downloading
mal-ware or "objectionable" materials), you can't really second
guess the admin and/or company policy.  Case in point - we have a
_VERY_ strict Internet policy, well published and all that. We
had to install firewall rules that block _ALL_ access to the IP
ranges used by the local (and national) ISPs because some people
decided to try to run proxy servers at home that they could use
from work.  When this was observed, we put the blocks in place,
and put an item in the facility newspaper explaining why the
blocks were added.  No one came whining about being unable to do
their job, though I'd sure it inconvenienced a few people. But
that's why we have a few systems owned by the employee association
located in the break areas (and isolated from the company network)
to allow our employees to check their personal e-mail - heck, that
is how I'm posting _this_ response.

>In that case, the person with the problem could simply ask the
>admin to open port 119, or (if necessary) ask for permission to
>view usenet through a web gateway.

That's the key. If it's needed or even desirable as a part of the job,
the admin should be able to grant such access.

        Old guy

Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
General Schvantzkopf <schvantzkopf@yahoo.com> spake unto us, saying:

>The comp.os.linux.* newsgroups desperately need moderation. The SPAM is 
>out of control, unless there is some sort of active moderation these 
>groups are going to die.

This has been said for the past decade, and yet the newsgroups still
live.  :-)  As others have said, it isn't all that hard to set up a
decent score file in a good newsreader.

Also, some news providers do proactive filtering on their own.  My ISP
now uses SuperNews for USENET access, and SN seems to do a passable job
of killing some of the really obnoxious stuff.

>Has anyone had any experience setting up moderated newsgroups? What are 
>the mechanics of converting the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy to moderation 
>(either human or robo)? 

Conversion isn't possible.  Creating moderated groups might be doable,
but doing so is a lengthy process, and the end result might not be the
nirvana you expect.

We went through this in the OS/2 community and a moderated newsgroup
was created, but it sees VERY little activity these days because nobody
uses it.  The original unmoderated groups have a bit of activity still,
however.  I suspect an attempt to create a moderated Linux group would
result in something similar.

-- 
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
    Mainframe/Unix bit twiddler by day, OS/2+Linux+DOS hobbyist by night.
       WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
                   The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Xavier Roche <xroche@free.fr.NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Yvan@office wrote:
>> not do that "good job of filtering the crap" as you say.
>
> You can also try:
> <http://www.albasani.net/index.html>
>
> Cleanfeed and NoCeM notices seem to be installed on this server.

I got < 10 spam postings/day in comp.os.linux.misc there for the last few
weeks. No MI-5 at all.


   Florian
-- 
<http://www.florian-diesch.de/>
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