Hi,

I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively 
contrarian.

I'd like to build a

-- low-power
-- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
-- linux
-- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 
the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.

....type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the cost 
should likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred bucks for the 
hardware.

I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of thing.

On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a 
GPL/Open Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit a decent 
and long list of internet websites.

The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site filter for 
my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that I can modify the 
code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden to some subscription 
entity for thier interpretation of what I ought to be blocking.

Any ideas?

Rob (replies to newsgroup only please)

On 2006-05-16, Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:
> I'd like to build a
> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 

You can buy a low-power, fanless motherboard with all the required
hardware for a couple of hundred bucks, most of them run on Debian.

Davide

-- 
Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife.
-- Julius Henry "Groucho" Marx (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx)

Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively
> contrarian.
> 
> I'd like to build a
> 
> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest
> of the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.

Take a look at http://www.soekris.com site.

Vilmos

"Rob Perkins" <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote in message 
news:4cui8rF17nraqU1@individual.net...
> Hi,
>
> I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively 
> contrarian.
>
> I'd like to build a
>
> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 
> the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.
>
> ...type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the cost should 
> likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred bucks for the 
> hardware.
>
> I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of thing.
>
> On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a GPL/Open 
> Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit a decent and long 
> list of internet websites.
>
> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site filter for 
> my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that I can modify the 
> code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden to some subscription 
> entity for thier interpretation of what I ought to be blocking.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Rob (replies to newsgroup only please)

Well, what you plan to do is possible.  It is also a wasted effort.  Any 
10-year-old could defeat it in about 30 seconds or less.  You hook up cable 
modem directly to computer (bypass linux box with ethernet cable).  Then 
fire up Internet Explorer, it detects the new proxy settings, and you are 
done.  But I wouldn't have to tell a 10-year-old how to do that, they 
already know.

But if you insist on trying it, look into the mini-itx form factors with a 
VIA processor.  Should work OK with any distro of linux (try mandriva), can 
be passively cooled, won't take up much space or power, etc.  -Dave 

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:
> Hi,

> I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively 
> contrarian.

> I'd like to build a

> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 
> the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.

> ...type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the cost 
> should likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred bucks for the 
> hardware.

> I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of thing.

> On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a 
> GPL/Open Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit a decent 
> and long list of internet websites.

> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site filter for 
> my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that I can modify the 
> code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden to some subscription 
> entity for thier interpretation of what I ought to be blocking.

> Any ideas?

I have something similar running for several years now. It is
a VIA mini-ITX board with a 800Mhz Via C3. Not fanless, you
have to go down to 600MHz for that. Still quite fast enough 
for what you want. 

For the second network card, I used the single PCI slot.
There are also mini-ITX boards with two network interfaces.

As for other cooling, I have a fan in the case, but I also
use a 3.5" disk. With a 4200/5400 rpm notebook HDD you should
be fine in a metal case without cooling. 

As distro I use Debian stable, with automatic updates
every few days. No problems, except for the one time 
when PAM was changed and I had errors in /etc/shadow.

Arno

On Tue, 16 May 2006 10:59:54 -0700, Rob Perkins
<finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively 
>contrarian.
>
>I'd like to build a
>
>-- low-power
>-- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
>-- linux
>-- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 
>the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.

Sounds like a place for an old laptop. Turn off the display for bigger
savings. They have power management that will run the CPU at low power
and cycle down the drive.
I am using an old laptop as a file/print/FAX/firewall server. The
battery is pretty much toast but it will act as a short term UPS

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Rob Perkins wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively
> contrarian.
> 
> I'd like to build a
> 
> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of
> the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.
> 
> ...type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the cost
> should likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred bucks for the
> hardware.

  http://www.gumstix.com/

> I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of thing.

see the gumstix site. They supply a customized distro


- --

Lew Pitcher, IT Specialist, Corporate Technology Solutions,
Enterprise Technology Solutions, TD Bank Financial Group

(Opinions expressed here are my own, not my employer's)
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On Tue, 16 May 2006 17:59:54 UTC, Rob Perkins 
<finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:

> I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively 
> contrarian.
>  
> I'd like to build a
>  
> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 
> the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.

 http://www.pcengines.ch

Don't know about Linux support, but it certainly runs FreeBSD OK. And 
who wants to run an an upstart wannabe UNIX like Linux anyway?  :-)

-- 
Bob Eager
begin  123  a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

Arno Wagner wrote:

 > I have something similar running for several years now. It is
 > a VIA mini-ITX board with a 800Mhz Via C3. Not fanless, you
 > have to go down to 600MHz for that. Still quite fast enough
 > for what you want.

Thanks, Arno, I think that's precisely what I'm going for.

Do you know of good firewall softwares which can sit on debian stable, 
or the linux which comes with the VIA board, and one of those master 
seed lists I've seen around, for white/blacklisting etc?

Rob

> Well, what you plan to do is possible.  It is also a wasted effort.  Any 
> 10-year-old could defeat it in about 30 seconds or less.  You hook up cable 
> modem directly to computer (bypass linux box with ethernet cable).  Then 
> fire up Internet Explorer, it detects the new proxy settings, and you are 
> done.  But I wouldn't have to tell a 10-year-old how to do that, they 
> already know.

Mine doesn't. I've quizzed her on it, obliquely. (Her talents run in 
other directions, and she doesn't have an interest in hate or porn.) And 
my wife wants it in the house. That's pretty much the end of the 
question; we're trying to prevent predatory popups and spam with it. A 
low power linux distro seems appropriate as *part* of the strategy.

Thanks for the recommendation on hardware.

Rob

On Tue, 16 May 2006 13:34:12 -0700, Rob Perkins wrote:

> Arno Wagner wrote:
> 
>  > I have something similar running for several years now. It is a VIA
>  > mini-ITX board with a 800Mhz Via C3. Not fanless, you have to go down
>  > to 600MHz for that. Still quite fast enough for what you want.
> 
> Thanks, Arno, I think that's precisely what I'm going for.
> 
> Do you know of good firewall softwares which can sit on debian stable, or
> the linux which comes with the VIA board, and one of those master seed
> lists I've seen around, for white/blacklisting etc?
> 
> Rob

Don't know anything about Debian but Fedora Core 5 installs a firewall as
part of the standard install. That's the norm for all of the complete
distros like FC, Mandriva, SUSE. If you want to use a Debian based distro
you might want to use Ubuntu. They do a better job of keeping Ubuntu up to
date and it's probably a little more user friendly then straight Debian.

As long as you are installing Linux on a server you should also consider
putting it on your daughters machine so you can have the piece of mind of
knowing that if a virus does slip though your filtering server it won't do
any harm. OpenOffice, Evolution, Firefox, Mplayer and GAIM should give her
everything she needs, with the exception of games, and you won't have to
waste your time cleaning viruses off of her machine.

Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> writes:

>Hi,

>I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively 
>contrarian.

>I'd like to build a

>-- low-power
>-- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
>-- linux
>-- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the rest of 
>the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.

Panasonic Toughbook laptops have no fans, are low power ( last up to 7
hours on a 5AHr battery-- ie they use just a few milliwatts of power) have one ethernet and one wireless network connection--
so just put your rest of the network on the wireless ( or put your cable
modem into a wireless router)

Acually I suspect if you took off the cover, no laptop would need a fan.
Convective cooling would be fine. 


>...type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the cost 
>should likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred bucks for the 
>hardware.

Ah, now you have trouble. The low power chips (Centrino, etc) are
expensive. The low power glue chips are also expensive. But then again old
laptops can probably be had for onle a couple of hundred bucks, and as I
say, remove the cover so they can convectively cook, and you should be
fine. 



>I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of thing.

>On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a 
>GPL/Open Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit a decent 
>and long list of internet websites.

laptops will run whatever Linux you want. I have Mandriva 2006 on a 40GB
hard drive. 


>The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site filter for 
>my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that I can modify the 
>code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden to some subscription 
>entity for thier interpretation of what I ought to be blocking.

>Any ideas?

You have my idea.


>Rob (replies to newsgroup only please)

Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> writes:


>> Well, what you plan to do is possible.  It is also a wasted effort.  Any 
>> 10-year-old could defeat it in about 30 seconds or less.  You hook up cable 
>> modem directly to computer (bypass linux box with ethernet cable).  Then 
>> fire up Internet Explorer, it detects the new proxy settings, and you are 
>> done.  But I wouldn't have to tell a 10-year-old how to do that, they 
>> already know.

>Mine doesn't. I've quizzed her on it, obliquely. (Her talents run in 
>other directions, and she doesn't have an interest in hate or porn.) And 
>my wife wants it in the house. That's pretty much the end of the 
>question; we're trying to prevent predatory popups and spam with it. A 
>low power linux distro seems appropriate as *part* of the strategy.

>Thanks for the recommendation on hardware.

I guess you could get a closet and lock the system with the ADSL modem/port
in there. If you have wireless then there are not even any lines except the
phone line/cable line running into there.

Rob writes:
> Do you know of good firewall softwares which can sit on debian stable...

The firewall is part of the kernel.  What you want is a firewall
configurator.  I use Ipmasq on my Debian/Stable firewall (an old Aptiva).

-- 
John Hasler 
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

Unruh wrote:

> I guess you could get a closet and lock the system with the ADSL modem/port
> in there. If you have wireless then there are not even any lines except the
> phone line/cable line running into there.

Unruh, you just described the setup for all the kids' computers in my 
home, with the addition that all the computers are in common areas, and 
not the bedrooms.

Rob

Unruh wrote:

> Ah, now you have trouble. The low power chips (Centrino, etc) are
> expensive. The low power glue chips are also expensive. But then again old
> laptops can probably be had for onle a couple of hundred bucks, and as I
> say, remove the cover so they can convectively cook, and you should be
> fine. 

Yeah, I noticed that. I take your point about old laptops, but I kind of 
also wanted this to be a building project. A couple of my kids like 
watching me put PC's together.

Rob

Rob Perkins wrote:
> 
> I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively
> contrarian.
> 
> I'd like to build a
> 
> -- low-power
> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> -- linux
> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the
> rest of the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.
> 
> ...type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the
> cost should likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred
> bucks for the hardware.
> 
> I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of
> thing.
> 
> On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a
> GPL/Open Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit
> a decent and long list of internet websites.
> 
> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site
> filter for my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so
> that I can modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not
> beholden to some subscription entity for thier interpretation
> of what I ought to be blocking.

Find an old '486 machine.  I have one here that has no cpu fans,
just a heatsink.  The whole thing draws about 30 to 40 watts when
the CRT is shutdown and the disks have spun down.  It has 64 Meg of
memory.  You can probably find the equivalent for free somewhere. 
You may need to mount a modern disk (but older, slower ones eat
less power).  You need no GUI nonsense, nor any rodentia, so an 80
Mhz '486 should be more than adequate.  You probably need a
reasonably modern CD-ROM on the IDE bus to load it.  Don't forget
an emergency boot floppy - you won't boot anything from CDs there.

-- 
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on 
 "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the 
 "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>

Rob Perkins wrote:
> 
>> Well, what you plan to do is possible.  It is also a wasted effort.  
>> Any 10-year-old could defeat it in about 30 seconds or less.  You hook 
>> up cable modem directly to computer (bypass linux box with ethernet 
>> cable).  Then fire up Internet Explorer, it detects the new proxy 
>> settings, and you are done.  But I wouldn't have to tell a 10-year-old 
>> how to do that, they already know.
> 
> 
> Mine doesn't. I've quizzed her on it, obliquely. (Her talents run in 
> other directions, and she doesn't have an interest in hate or porn.) And 
> my wife wants it in the house. That's pretty much the end of the 
> question; we're trying to prevent predatory popups and spam with it. A 
> low power linux distro seems appropriate as *part* of the strategy.
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation on hardware.
> 
> Rob

visit OpenWrt.org; get a linksys WRTSL54GS, for about $100, and there is 
your firewall, filter, wifi, all in one...

--Yan

CBFalconer wrote:
> Rob Perkins wrote:
> >
> > I think unlike most modders I'm trying to do something relatively
> > contrarian.
> >
> > I'd like to build a
> >
> > -- low-power
> > -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
> > -- linux
> > -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the
> > rest of the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.
> >
> > ...type machine. The form factor should be very small, and the
> > cost should likewise be very small, maybe just a couple hundred
> > bucks for the hardware.
> >
> > I'd also like guidance on the best linux distro for this sort of
> > thing.
> >
> > On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a
> > GPL/Open Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit
> > a decent and long list of internet websites.
> >
> > The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site
> > filter for my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so
> > that I can modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not
> > beholden to some subscription entity for thier interpretation
> > of what I ought to be blocking.
>
> Find an old '486 machine.  I have one here that has no cpu fans,
> just a heatsink.

We use Pentium 100s, since it is difficult to find 100M ethernet for
486/ISA.

> The whole thing draws about 30 to 40 watts when

You can get it down by using flash drives.   We estimate it to be
around 20 Watts, with motherboard and flash drives only.

> the CRT is shutdown and the disks have spun down.

Make sure you don't touch the hard disks after booting; otherwise, it
will take off (sound like a jet) every few minuties.

> It has 64 Meg of
> memory.  You can probably find the equivalent for free somewhere.
> You may need to mount a modern disk (but older, slower ones eat
> less power).

Flash drives need less than 1 Watt to run.

> You need no GUI nonsense, nor any rodentia, so an 80
> Mhz '486 should be more than adequate.  You probably need a
> reasonably modern CD-ROM on the IDE bus to load it.  Don't forget
> an emergency boot floppy - you won't boot anything from CDs there.

We usually set up a primary master drive (hda) and second master drive
(hdc) to fix each other.  They almost never crash without reason
(operator error).

We can run a firewall with as little as 8M, but won't bother with less
than 32M these days.

See http://cfd.linnix.com

Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote: 

> 
> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site 
> filter for my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that 
> I can modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden 
> to some subscription entity for thier interpretation of what I 
> ought to be blocking. 

If OEMs were allowed to modify Windows, to weld whatever they wanted
into the operating system instead of having to accept whatever
Microsoft's wants welded into the operating system, personal
computers geared for children might be one of the best results. Good
luck. 

Per Rob Perkins:
> we're trying to prevent predatory popups and spam with it

Is the end user machine Linux or Windows?
-- 
PeteCresswell

Why don't you just do an "allow list" to bypass a dummy
proxy in IE ? Just put it on your daughters login. That list
is good for about 75 URLs, and if she is wanting to explore
on a subject, she can do it in your presence, and if you
approve of a site that she wants to add to the list, then
add it. The list will allow wild cards like *.edu since the
scumbags are mostly *.com.  I keep a few text files
that are copies of the list, and then I can open the browser
and cut and paste in the updated list. It costs nothing,
and works perfectly. She ain't going nowhere that is not
on that list.
Here it is:
In IE ... Tools, Internet Options, Connections, lan settings ..
Check .... Use a Proxy .....  then  Advanced
Check .. at top type in Dummy Proxy
Check .. use for all
Then see the box where you can add in the URLs
separated by ";"  . Note, you can use partial URLs like
domain.com; another domain.com ...... or you can use
the entire URL ... it is a big string, so the size is limited.
Then, when you get a site she likes, also add it to her
Favorites, so she doesn't have to remember the URLs.

johns

"linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> writes:

> CBFalconer wrote:
>> Rob Perkins wrote:
>>>
>>> -- low-power
>>> -- fanless (heatsinks, prefer to avoid water cooling)
>>> -- linux
>>> -- two Ethernet ports, one for the cable modem, and one for the
>>> rest of the net. That's right, it's a firewall/proxy machine.
>>>
>>> On that machine, I want to install linux, and on top of linux, a
>>> GPL/Open Source proxy and firewall software which I can deposit
>>> a decent and long list of internet websites.

You might also want to take a look at OpenBSD.

> Make sure you don't touch the hard disks after booting; otherwise, it
> will take off (sound like a jet) every few minuties.

Or even easier, if you cut down seriously the root partition,
you can load the whole / into RAM and run it from there. Unmount
the disks then spun them down. But you need to ensure that changes
to config files are saved somewhere else.

However, for this you need a good amount of memory.
(at work I am playing with this, but the machines have half a GB memory,
but they also run X).

>> You need no GUI nonsense, nor any rodentia, so an 80
>> Mhz '486 should be more than adequate.  You probably need a

Agree. My firewall is a 486 running OpenBSD, and it is working
flawlessly.

Vilmos

johns wrote:

> Here it is:
> In IE ... Tools, Internet Options, Connections, lan settings ..
> Check .... Use a Proxy .....  then  Advanced
> Check .. at top type in Dummy Proxy
> Check .. use for all

Not the point. It's more than just a net nanny blocker. It's also going 
to be my main firewall and router for the home network. I need something 
I can *control*, not some netgear/linksys/dlink thing.

Plus, y'know, I need an excuse to play with Linux...

Rob

Take up gaming. Beats the crap out of trying to keep
Linux running :-)

johns

In <4cvsdqF186sesU1@individual.net> Rob Perkins:

[Snip...]

> Plus, y'know, I need an excuse to play with Linux...

Better clear this entire concept with the wife, first...   :)

-- 
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Rob Perkins <rperkins@usa.net> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>  > I have something similar running for several years now. It is
>  > a VIA mini-ITX board with a 800Mhz Via C3. Not fanless, you
>  > have to go down to 600MHz for that. Still quite fast enough
>  > for what you want.

> Thanks, Arno, I think that's precisely what I'm going for.

> Do you know of good firewall softwares which can sit on debian stable, 
> or the linux which comes with the VIA board, and one of those master 
> seed lists I've seen around, for white/blacklisting etc?

Sorry, no. I just use netfilter to block stuff, but nothing
content oriented or dynamic. BTW, no software comes with the
VIA board. You have to install it yourself.

Arno

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2006 13:34:12 -0700, Rob Perkins wrote:

>> Arno Wagner wrote:
>> 
>>  > I have something similar running for several years now. It is a VIA
>>  > mini-ITX board with a 800Mhz Via C3. Not fanless, you have to go down
>>  > to 600MHz for that. Still quite fast enough for what you want.
>> 
>> Thanks, Arno, I think that's precisely what I'm going for.
>> 
>> Do you know of good firewall softwares which can sit on debian stable, or
>> the linux which comes with the VIA board, and one of those master seed
>> lists I've seen around, for white/blacklisting etc?
>> 
>> Rob

> Don't know anything about Debian but Fedora Core 5 installs a firewall as
> part of the standard install. 

Actually, the standard packet filter is part of the kernel. Only the
admin tools need to be installed.

> That's the norm for all of the complete
> distros like FC, Mandriva, SUSE. If you want to use a Debian based distro
> you might want to use Ubuntu. They do a better job of keeping Ubuntu up to
> date and it's probably a little more user friendly then straight Debian.

Depending on what you want, I agree. However debian stable is a
good distro to use in a headless machine. Don't know how well
Ubuntu does headless.

> As long as you are installing Linux on a server you should also consider
> putting it on your daughters machine so you can have the piece of mind of
> knowing that if a virus does slip though your filtering server it won't do
> any harm. OpenOffice, Evolution, Firefox, Mplayer and GAIM should give her
> everything she needs, with the exception of games, and you won't have to
> waste your time cleaning viruses off of her machine.

I also agree to this.

Arno

"Rob Perkins" <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:

> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a
> ad/porn/hate site filter for my kids, aged 1
> through 10. I want Open Source so that I can
> modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not
> beholden to some subscription entity for th[ei]r
> interpretation of what I ought to be blocking.

Ummm, sometime last year or the year before, the
number of web pages passed the size of the human
population. There are already lots of nanny-gate
services, with whom many of the bad-stuff purveyors
are in a constant battle of wits trying to remain
unfilterable. Do you _really_ want to attempt to
staunch that flood unassisted?

xanthian.



-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

johns wrote:
> 
> Why don't you just do an "allow list" to bypass a dummy
> proxy in IE ? Just put it on your daughters login. That list

To start with, the first step to safety is to eliminate IE.  That
is sometimes hard to do, so the next best thing is to have the
firewall reject any external communications with IE.  Then install
a safer browser, such as Firefox from mozilla.org.

This assumes the children are using winblows machines in the first
place.  If not, the festering IE sore is already healed.

-- 
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on 
 "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the 
 "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>

On Wed, 17 May 2006 00:35:42 +0000, John Doe wrote:
> Rob Perkins <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote: 
>> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site 
>> filter for my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that 
>> I can modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden 
>> to some subscription entity for thier interpretation of what I 
>> ought to be blocking. 
> 
> If OEMs were allowed to modify Windows, to weld whatever they wanted
> into the operating system instead of having to accept whatever
> Microsoft's wants welded into the operating system, personal
> computers geared for children might be one of the best results. Good
> luck.

If you aren't stuck to Windows, then there are dozens of operating systems
that you can modify to your heart's content.

Some well-known people are promoting the idea of building PCs specifically
for children.  See:

http://www.laptop.org/

-- 
mark south; echo znexfbhgu2000@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
"I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic 
globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable."
-- Gilbert & Sullivan, The Mikado

On Tue, 16 May 2006 14:17:25 -0700, Rob Perkins wrote:
> Unruh wrote:
>> Ah, now you have trouble. The low power chips (Centrino, etc) are
>> expensive. The low power glue chips are also expensive. But then again old
>> laptops can probably be had for onle a couple of hundred bucks, and as I
>> say, remove the cover so they can convectively cook, and you should be
>> fine. 
> 
> Yeah, I noticed that. I take your point about old laptops, but I kind of 
> also wanted this to be a building project. A couple of my kids like 
> watching me put PC's together.

Take a look at the parts listed at

http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/

Both Damn Small Linux (link above) and Puppy Linux
(http://www.puppyos.com) will run happily off a smallish flash memory, or
boot off a CD and run entirely in RAM. Only needs about 128 Mb or so,
depending on apps you want.

(Not an endorsement, not a customer, no connection, void where prohibited
by liquor licensing laws etc.)

-- 
mark south; echo znexfbhgu2000@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
"I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic 
globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable."
-- Gilbert & Sullivan, The Mikado

johns wrote:
> Take up gaming. Beats the crap out of trying to keep
> Linux running :-)

I have a lev 60 rogue and a lev 59 priest on Detheroc, World of Warcraft.

Rob

I'm not stuck on Windows, I don't even promote Windows. However, as
an unusually active personal computer user, I benefit from all of
the applications Windows supports and all of the hardware which
comes with drivers written for Windows. 


Mark South <mark.south null.invalid> wrote:

>
> Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.vmunix.org!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.cw.net!cw.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.de!news.net.uni-c.dk!dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail
> From: Mark South <mark.south null.invalid>
> Organization: Southern Enterprises
> Subject: Re: Creating a low-power machine
> Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:57:51 +0200
> User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2.91 (As She Crawled Across the Table)
> Message-ID: <pan.2006.05.17.11.57.48.308441 bluewin.ch>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.os.linux.misc
> References: <4cui8rF17nraqU1 individual.net> <Xns97C5C759392B10123456789 207.115.17.102>
> Reply-To: mark.south null.invalid
> x-genuine-south-post: true
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> Xref: prodigy.net alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:465851 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:193077 comp.os.linux.misc:736165
> 
> On Wed, 17 May 2006 00:35:42 +0000, John Doe wrote:
>> Rob Perkins <finitedev community.nospam> wrote: 
>>> The purpose of the machine is to serve as a ad/porn/hate site 
>>> filter for my kids, aged 1 through 10. I want Open Source so that 
>>> I can modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not beholden 
>>> to some subscription entity for thier interpretation of what I 
>>> ought to be blocking. 
>> 
>> If OEMs were allowed to modify Windows, to weld whatever they wanted
>> into the operating system instead of having to accept whatever
>> Microsoft's wants welded into the operating system, personal
>> computers geared for children might be one of the best results. Good
>> luck.
> 
> If you aren't stuck to Windows, then there are dozens of operating systems
> that you can modify to your heart's content.
> 
> Some well-known people are promoting the idea of building PCs specifically
> for children.  See:
> 
> http://www.laptop.org/
> 
> -- 
> mark south; echo znexfbhgu2000 lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
> "I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic 
> globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable."
> -- Gilbert & Sullivan, The Mikado
> 
> 
> 

Mark South wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2006 14:17:25 -0700, Rob Perkins wrote:
> 
>>Unruh wrote:
>>
>>>Ah, now you have trouble. The low power chips (Centrino, etc) are
>>>expensive. The low power glue chips are also expensive. But then again old
>>>laptops can probably be had for onle a couple of hundred bucks, and as I
>>>say, remove the cover so they can convectively cook, and you should be
>>>fine. 
>>
>>Yeah, I noticed that. I take your point about old laptops, but I kind of 
>>also wanted this to be a building project. A couple of my kids like 
>>watching me put PC's together.
> 
> 
> Take a look at the parts listed at
> 
> http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/

Well, I bought an EPIA ML6000 board as a base for my device, so we'll go 
from there. I was intrigued by the USB pen thing. Is there a download 
for that, as a pen image (I already have several USB flash devices)

Rob

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> "Rob Perkins" <finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:
> 
> 
>>The purpose of the machine is to serve as a
>>ad/porn/hate site filter for my kids, aged 1
>>through 10. I want Open Source so that I can
>>modify the code if I want to, and so that I'm not
>>beholden to some subscription entity for th[ei]r
>>interpretation of what I ought to be blocking.
> 
> 
> Ummm, sometime last year or the year before, the
> number of web pages passed the size of the human
> population. There are already lots of nanny-gate
> services, with whom many of the bad-stuff purveyors
> are in a constant battle of wits trying to remain
> unfilterable. Do you _really_ want to attempt to
> staunch that flood unassisted?

I have an idea for a program, actually, which would help with that. But 
the main focus isn't to filter out what people actively go looking for, 
it's to filter what people actively push at an innocent person, putting 
in a typo or some such.

Rob

John Doe wrote:
> I'm not stuck on Windows, I don't even promote Windows. However, as
> an unusually active personal computer user, I benefit from all of
> the applications Windows supports and all of the hardware which
> comes with drivers written for Windows. 

Let me offer, too, (with the hope that it doesn't alienate the Smart 
People here) that I simply don't care about Windows enough to be swayed 
by haughty opinions against it.

Rob

On Wed, 17 May 2006 15:17:56 UTC, Rob Perkins 
<finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
> > I'm not stuck on Windows, I don't even promote Windows. However, as
> > an unusually active personal computer user, I benefit from all of
> > the applications Windows supports and all of the hardware which
> > comes with drivers written for Windows. 
> 
> Let me offer, too, (with the hope that it doesn't alienate the Smart 
> People here) that I simply don't care about Windows enough to be swayed 
> by haughty opinions against it.

The problem with this thread is that it probably shouldn't have been 
posted to a non hardware newsgroup...

 http://quotes.fivegeeks.net/QUOTES-CS-05.html#q123aaa76

-- 
Bob Eager
begin  123  a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

On 17 May 2006 15:52:39 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

>The problem with this thread is that it probably shouldn't have been 
>posted to a non hardware newsgroup...

Looks like a pretty "Miscellaneous" topic to me. It has touched on
hardware, software, security and filters, along with the normal thread
drift we always see.  

On Wed, 17 May 2006 18:27:09 UTC, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

> On 17 May 2006 15:52:39 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> >The problem with this thread is that it probably shouldn't have been 
> >posted to a non hardware newsgroup...
> 
> Looks like a pretty "Miscellaneous" topic to me. It has touched on
> hardware, software, security and filters, along with the normal thread
> drift we always see.  

I agree. But that's probably more a result of the cross-posting!
-- 
Bob Eager
begin  123  a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:03:25 -0700, Rob Perkins wrote:
> Mark South wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 May 2006 14:17:25 -0700, Rob Perkins wrote:
>>>Unruh wrote:
>>>>Ah, now you have trouble. The low power chips (Centrino, etc) are
>>>>expensive. The low power glue chips are also expensive. But then again old
>>>>laptops can probably be had for onle a couple of hundred bucks, and as I
>>>>say, remove the cover so they can convectively cook, and you should be
>>>>fine. 
>>>
>>>Yeah, I noticed that. I take your point about old laptops, but I kind of 
>>>also wanted this to be a building project. A couple of my kids like 
>>>watching me put PC's together.
>> 
>> Take a look at the parts listed at
>> 
>> http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/
> 
> Well, I bought an EPIA ML6000 board as a base for my device, so we'll go 
> from there. I was intrigued by the USB pen thing. Is there a download 
> for that, as a pen image (I already have several USB flash devices)

Typically, one downloads the CD iso image, burns it to a CD-RW ('cos the
next time you want it there'll be a newer version :-) and boots that. 
Then the running live system has utilities to make a USB image.  I have
put DSL on a USB key and a USB ZIP drive, while Puppy has installer
entries in the menu.  Puppy 2-alpha has a universal installer that does
the same stuff.  It's falling-off-a-log easy.

-- 
mark south; echo znexfbhgu2000@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
"I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic 
globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable."
-- Gilbert & Sullivan, The Mikado

Warning Troll post ahead.............;^)










creating a low power machine......put an AMD in it?  Use a 'new' mac?

On Tue, 16 May 2006 14:17:25 -0700, Rob Perkins
<finitedev@community.nospam> wrote:

>Yeah, I noticed that. I take your point about old laptops, but I kind of 
>also wanted this to be a building project. A couple of my kids like 
>watching me put PC's together.

I'd say scrounge for junkers.  People are throwing away good ones.  I
have a machine with a via PM266 something-or-other board, and it's
actually a pretty decent board if you don't care about high
performance.  It's stable and easy to work with.   You should be able
to get one cheap or free nowadays.  It takes a celeron or P4 chip, has
integrated sound/gfx, and it's tiny.  

Charlie