Usenet lives or the Internet Dies!!

FRom http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/about

Archive
  	 Jan 	 Feb 	 Mar 	 Apr 	 May 	 Jun 	 Jul 	 Aug 	 Sep 	 Oct 	 Nov 	 Dec
1993 	  	  	  	  	  	  	  	1064 	1104 	810 	1235 	1601 	 
1994 	2002 	1769 	2005 	1875 	2311 	2520 	2627 	2465 	2536 	3165 	2879 	2117 	 
1995 	1955 	2258 	3042 	4870 	5324 	5289 	5036 	5362 	4049 	4041 	4388 	4956 	 
1996 	5732 	4860 	4742 	5560 	6178 	5974 	5968 	6668 	6353 	6283 	5095 	5253 	 
1997 	6333 	6282 	5316 	5516 	5347 	4590 	5368 	4259 	5300 	5738 	5533 	6325 	 
1998 	6347 	5970 	6538 	7499 	7062 	7533 	7130 	7479 	7357 	8666 	8464 	8001 	 
1999 	8595 	8704 	8403 	6933 	7834 	7666 	7046 	7128 	6852 	6266 	8265 	6925 	 
2000 	7103 	5814 	5504 	5900 	5657 	5546 	4912 	5518 	4543 	4872 	3928 	3872 	 
2001 	5259 	4138 	4113 	3996 	3860 	3998 	4770 	5092 	3743 	4149 	4614 	3410 	 
2002 	4338 	4208 	3498 	3029 	3427 	3098 	3546 	3203 	4071 	4739 	3837 	3600 	 
2003 	3824 	3367 	2965 	2933 	3447 	3968 	3150 	3305 	4122 	3799 	3347 	2742 	 
2004 	3777 	3300 	2849 	2622 	2578 	3251 	2798 	2593 	3242 	3571 	2737 	3065 	 
2005 	3360 	2273 	2436 	2419 	3508 	2821 	2090 	3103 	2715 	3215 	3846 	2938 	 
2006 	2974 	2352 	2720 	3450 	2383 	2495 	2722 	3145 	2441 	2238 	2151 	1932 	 
2007 	2047 	1974 	2167 	2008 	2204 	2164 	2894 	4562 	3615 	2646 	2838 	3254 	 
2008 	3462 	1957 	2354 	2486 	1567 	1117 	1592 	895 	1305 	1339 	959 	1085 	 
2009 	1350 	786 	991 	937 	908 	1087 	1066 	1133 	1038 	1026 	53 	80 	 
2010 	394 	833 	294 	82 	54 	110 	407 	675 	781 	768 	629 	433 	 
2011 	469 	367 	452 	426 	308 	230 	432 	253 	410 	367 	227 	267 	 
		
Top posters
This month
19 	t...@invalid.invalid
18 	t...@invalid.invalid
13 	mil...@yoyo.org
9 	tw+use...@dionic.net
9 	Rui Maciel
9 	not...@nothome.com
8 	schvantzk...@yahoo.com
8 	r...@greenend.org.uk
7 	hillgoogle@charter.net
6 	hel...@deepsoft.com

All time
5421 	p...@oboe.it.uc3m.es
4508 	michael+use...@www.heiming.de
3530 	j...@dhh.gt.org
3235 	hel...@deepsoft.com
2991 	nike_jordan_...@yahoo.com.cn
2651 	jdbe...@exit109.com
2474 	gra...@visi.com
2216 	nikejordangoo...@hotmail.com
1890 	rkiesl...@mainmatter.com
1869 	unruh-s...@physics.ubc.ca
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

The Doctor wrote:
> Usenet lives or the Internet Dies!!
> 
> FRom http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/about
> 
> Archive
>   	 Jan 	 Feb 	 Mar 	 Apr 	 May 	 Jun 	 Jul 	 Aug 	 Sep 	 Oct 	 Nov 	 Dec
> 1993 	  	  	  	  	  	  	  	1064 	1104 	810 	1235 	1601 	 
> 1994 	2002 	1769 	2005 	1875 	2311 	2520 	2627 	2465 	2536 	3165 	2879 	2117 	 
> 1995 	1955 	2258 	3042 	4870 	5324 	5289 	5036 	5362 	4049 	4041 	4388 	4956 	 
> 1996 	5732 	4860 	4742 	5560 	6178 	5974 	5968 	6668 	6353 	6283 	5095 	5253 	 
> 1997 	6333 	6282 	5316 	5516 	5347 	4590 	5368 	4259 	5300 	5738 	5533 	6325 	 
> 1998 	6347 	5970 	6538 	7499 	7062 	7533 	7130 	7479 	7357 	8666 	8464 	8001 	 
> 1999 	8595 	8704 	8403 	6933 	7834 	7666 	7046 	7128 	6852 	6266 	8265 	6925 	 
> 2000 	7103 	5814 	5504 	5900 	5657 	5546 	4912 	5518 	4543 	4872 	3928 	3872 	 
> 2001 	5259 	4138 	4113 	3996 	3860 	3998 	4770 	5092 	3743 	4149 	4614 	3410 	 
> 2002 	4338 	4208 	3498 	3029 	3427 	3098 	3546 	3203 	4071 	4739 	3837 	3600 	 
> 2003 	3824 	3367 	2965 	2933 	3447 	3968 	3150 	3305 	4122 	3799 	3347 	2742 	 
> 2004 	3777 	3300 	2849 	2622 	2578 	3251 	2798 	2593 	3242 	3571 	2737 	3065 	 
> 2005 	3360 	2273 	2436 	2419 	3508 	2821 	2090 	3103 	2715 	3215 	3846 	2938 	 
> 2006 	2974 	2352 	2720 	3450 	2383 	2495 	2722 	3145 	2441 	2238 	2151 	1932 	 
> 2007 	2047 	1974 	2167 	2008 	2204 	2164 	2894 	4562 	3615 	2646 	2838 	3254 	 
> 2008 	3462 	1957 	2354 	2486 	1567 	1117 	1592 	895 	1305 	1339 	959 	1085 	 
> 2009 	1350 	786 	991 	937 	908 	1087 	1066 	1133 	1038 	1026 	53 	80 	 
> 2010 	394 	833 	294 	82 	54 	110 	407 	675 	781 	768 	629 	433 	 
> 2011 	469 	367 	452 	426 	308 	230 	432 	253 	410 	367 	227 	267 	 
> 		
No surprise.
The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
not provide Usenet. There are some servers that do e-mail and provide a
broken interface to Usenet and e-mail using a web browser. These are
unwhieldy at best. But those users are usually trolls, flamers,
spammers, and their ilk. Most of the new users drive the older users
away and they now use mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames,
etc. They are sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever
runs one can delete an uncivil user.

To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
majority.


-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 13:20:01 up 32 days, 3:08, 3 users, load average: 5.17, 5.35, 5.10

In article <jdnk3a02eh5@news3.newsguy.com>,
Jean-David Beyer  <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>> Usenet lives or the Internet Dies!!
>> 
>> FRom http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/about
>> 
>> Archive
>>   	 Jan 	 Feb 	 Mar 	 Apr 	 May 	 Jun 	 Jul 	 Aug 	 Sep 	 Oct 	 Nov 	 Dec
>> 1993 	  	  	  	  	  	  	  	1064 	1104 	810 	1235 	1601 	 
>> 1994 	2002 	1769 	2005 	1875 	2311 	2520 	2627 	2465 	2536 	3165 	2879 	2117 	 
>> 1995 	1955 	2258 	3042 	4870 	5324 	5289 	5036 	5362 	4049 	4041 	4388 	4956 	 
>> 1996 	5732 	4860 	4742 	5560 	6178 	5974 	5968 	6668 	6353 	6283 	5095 	5253 	 
>> 1997 	6333 	6282 	5316 	5516 	5347 	4590 	5368 	4259 	5300 	5738 	5533 	6325 	 
>> 1998 	6347 	5970 	6538 	7499 	7062 	7533 	7130 	7479 	7357 	8666 	8464 	8001 	 
>> 1999 	8595 	8704 	8403 	6933 	7834 	7666 	7046 	7128 	6852 	6266 	8265 	6925 	 
>> 2000 	7103 	5814 	5504 	5900 	5657 	5546 	4912 	5518 	4543 	4872 	3928 	3872 	 
>> 2001 	5259 	4138 	4113 	3996 	3860 	3998 	4770 	5092 	3743 	4149 	4614 	3410 	 
>> 2002 	4338 	4208 	3498 	3029 	3427 	3098 	3546 	3203 	4071 	4739 	3837 	3600 	 
>> 2003 	3824 	3367 	2965 	2933 	3447 	3968 	3150 	3305 	4122 	3799 	3347 	2742 	 
>> 2004 	3777 	3300 	2849 	2622 	2578 	3251 	2798 	2593 	3242 	3571 	2737 	3065 	 
>> 2005 	3360 	2273 	2436 	2419 	3508 	2821 	2090 	3103 	2715 	3215 	3846 	2938 	 
>> 2006 	2974 	2352 	2720 	3450 	2383 	2495 	2722 	3145 	2441 	2238 	2151 	1932 	 
>> 2007 	2047 	1974 	2167 	2008 	2204 	2164 	2894 	4562 	3615 	2646 	2838 	3254 	 
>> 2008 	3462 	1957 	2354 	2486 	1567 	1117 	1592 	895 	1305 	1339 	959 	1085 	 
>> 2009 	1350 	786 	991 	937 	908 	1087 	1066 	1133 	1038 	1026 	53 	80 	 
>> 2010 	394 	833 	294 	82 	54 	110 	407 	675 	781 	768 	629 	433 	 
>> 2011 	469 	367 	452 	426 	308 	230 	432 	253 	410 	367 	227 	267 	 
>> 		
>No surprise.
>The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>not provide Usenet. There are some servers that do e-mail and provide a
>broken interface to Usenet and e-mail using a web browser. These are
>unwhieldy at best. But those users are usually trolls, flamers,
>spammers, and their ilk. Most of the new users drive the older users
>away and they now use mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames,
>etc. They are sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever
>runs one can delete an uncivil user.
>
>To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
>majority.
>
>
>-- 
>  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
>  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
> ^^-^^ 13:20:01 up 32 days, 3:08, 3 users, load average: 5.17, 5.35, 5.10

MAte, I am an old-timer.

I view Usenet an as Internet Bedrock.

I am a 'smaller  ISP that provides USEnet'
and still haning on.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

Jean-David Beyer wrote:
> The Doctor wrote:
>> Usenet lives or the Internet Dies!!
>>
>> FRom http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/about
>>
>> Archive
>>   	 Jan 	 Feb 	 Mar 	 Apr 	 May 	 Jun 	 Jul 	 Aug 	 Sep 	 Oct 	 Nov 	 Dec
>> 1993 	  	  	  	  	  	  	  	1064 	1104 	810 	1235 	1601 	 
>> 1994 	2002 	1769 	2005 	1875 	2311 	2520 	2627 	2465 	2536 	3165 	2879 	2117 	 
>> 1995 	1955 	2258 	3042 	4870 	5324 	5289 	5036 	5362 	4049 	4041 	4388 	4956 	 
>> 1996 	5732 	4860 	4742 	5560 	6178 	5974 	5968 	6668 	6353 	6283 	5095 	5253 	 
>> 1997 	6333 	6282 	5316 	5516 	5347 	4590 	5368 	4259 	5300 	5738 	5533 	6325 	 
>> 1998 	6347 	5970 	6538 	7499 	7062 	7533 	7130 	7479 	7357 	8666 	8464 	8001 	 
>> 1999 	8595 	8704 	8403 	6933 	7834 	7666 	7046 	7128 	6852 	6266 	8265 	6925 	 
>> 2000 	7103 	5814 	5504 	5900 	5657 	5546 	4912 	5518 	4543 	4872 	3928 	3872 	 
>> 2001 	5259 	4138 	4113 	3996 	3860 	3998 	4770 	5092 	3743 	4149 	4614 	3410 	 
>> 2002 	4338 	4208 	3498 	3029 	3427 	3098 	3546 	3203 	4071 	4739 	3837 	3600 	 
>> 2003 	3824 	3367 	2965 	2933 	3447 	3968 	3150 	3305 	4122 	3799 	3347 	2742 	 
>> 2004 	3777 	3300 	2849 	2622 	2578 	3251 	2798 	2593 	3242 	3571 	2737 	3065 	 
>> 2005 	3360 	2273 	2436 	2419 	3508 	2821 	2090 	3103 	2715 	3215 	3846 	2938 	 
>> 2006 	2974 	2352 	2720 	3450 	2383 	2495 	2722 	3145 	2441 	2238 	2151 	1932 	 
>> 2007 	2047 	1974 	2167 	2008 	2204 	2164 	2894 	4562 	3615 	2646 	2838 	3254 	 
>> 2008 	3462 	1957 	2354 	2486 	1567 	1117 	1592 	895 	1305 	1339 	959 	1085 	 
>> 2009 	1350 	786 	991 	937 	908 	1087 	1066 	1133 	1038 	1026 	53 	80 	 
>> 2010 	394 	833 	294 	82 	54 	110 	407 	675 	781 	768 	629 	433 	 
>> 2011 	469 	367 	452 	426 	308 	230 	432 	253 	410 	367 	227 	267 	 
>> 		
> No surprise.
> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
> not provide Usenet. There are some servers that do e-mail and provide a
> broken interface to Usenet and e-mail using a web browser. These are
> unwhieldy at best. But those users are usually trolls, flamers,
> spammers, and their ilk. Most of the new users drive the older users
> away and they now use mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames,
> etc. They are sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever
> runs one can delete an uncivil user.
> 
> To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
> majority.
> 
> 
OTOH look at this group

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/about

Jean-David Beyer wrote:
> 
> No surprise.
> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
> not provide Usenet. There are some servers that do e-mail and provide a
> broken interface to Usenet and e-mail using a web browser. These are
> unwhieldy at best. But those users are usually trolls, flamers,
> spammers, and their ilk. Most of the new users drive the older users
> away and they now use mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames,
> etc. They are sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever
> runs one can delete an uncivil user.
> 
> To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
> majority.
> 
> 
Too many people expect to use a web forum now, despite the fact that Usenet 
provides a far superior interface. One of my ISPs used to provide a customer 
support newsgroup, but then went to a web forum. I've never bothered to look 
at the web forum.

Usenet allowed people to develop a thick skin and learn the art of ignoring 
the stupid. Now they all whine and threaten to get people banned or sue.
-- 
Dave
Too many gadgets, too little time.

In article <j6p5t8-naq.ln1@llondel.org>, Dave  <noone$$@llondel.org> wrote:
>Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>> 
>> No surprise.
>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>> not provide Usenet. There are some servers that do e-mail and provide a
>> broken interface to Usenet and e-mail using a web browser. These are
>> unwhieldy at best. But those users are usually trolls, flamers,
>> spammers, and their ilk. Most of the new users drive the older users
>> away and they now use mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames,
>> etc. They are sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever
>> runs one can delete an uncivil user.
>> 
>> To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
>> majority.
>> 
>> 
>Too many people expect to use a web forum now, despite the fact that Usenet 
>provides a far superior interface. One of my ISPs used to provide a customer 
>support newsgroup, but then went to a web forum. I've never bothered to look 
>at the web forum.
>
>Usenet allowed people to develop a thick skin and learn the art of ignoring 
>the stupid. Now they all whine and threaten to get people banned or sue.
>-- 
>Dave
>Too many gadgets, too little time.

Point well taken Dave.  USenet is ordered and specific!

The web is an unorderly mess!!

I will not give up USenet unless some major disater takes place!
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.misc, in article
<jdnk3a02eh5@news3.newsguy.com>, Jean-David Beyer wrote:

>The Doctor wrote:

>> FRom http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/about

>No surprise.
>The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who
>do not provide Usenet.

Agreed

>Most of the new users drive the older users away and they now use
>mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames, etc. They are
>sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever runs one can
>delete an uncivil user.

There's another problem - google themselves.  This newsgroup is a
perfect example, as google allowed anonymous posting and totally
ignored any complaints of abuse.  In consequence, we were seeing tons
of advertisements for rip-off products such as womens goods, shoes,
watches, and similar.  My stats only go back to 2003, but

          2003   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   2009   2010   2011
offered  38505  34096  33645  33415  30140  18552  12145   7035   3770
kills     6139   5450   7898   7961  12628  11090   5996   2449   1309
percent   15.9   16.0   23.5   23.8   41.9   59.8   49.7   34.8   34.7

The jump in 2007 is rather noticeable

           Jan  Feb  Mar  Apr  May  Jun  Jul  Aug  Sep  Oct  Nov  Dec
offered   2067 2033 2180 2040 2142 2173 2895 3653 3198 2660 2570 2539
kills      188  362  213  202  288  592 1051 2266 2094 1899 1726 1747
percent    9.1 17.8  9.8  9.9 13.4 27.2 36.3 62.0 65.5 71.4 67.2 68.8

>To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
>majority.

[compton ~]$ grep -vE '^([%\[ ]|Score|$)' /var/spool/slrnpull/score |
 cut -d' ' -f1 | sort |
 uniq -c | column
   1326 From:                75 Message-ID:         630 Subject:
      3 Lines:               49 References:          89 Xref:
[compton ~]$ 

There are ways to improve the signal/noise ratio.  One of which was
suggested by Blinky the Shark in his "The Usenet Improvement Project"
now mirrored at http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/index.html.
I try to scan 78 Usenet groups every day, and there is a rule in my
score file that says

  Score:: =-9999
  Message-ID: googlegroups.com
  Message-ID: JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums

applicable to 28 groups at the moment.  In the other groups, if I do
reply to a google poster, my news tool automagically adds this to the
top of the post:

  NOTE: Posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums) dramatically
  reduces the chance of your post being seen.  Find a real news server.

Some get the hint.

        Old guy

In article <slrnjg18pe.pp1.ibuprofin@compton.phx.az.us>,
Moe Trin <ibuprofin@painkiller.example.tld.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Dec 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.misc, in article
><jdnk3a02eh5@news3.newsguy.com>, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>>The Doctor wrote:
>
>>> FRom http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/about
>
>>No surprise.
>>The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who
>>do not provide Usenet.
>
>Agreed
>
>>Most of the new users drive the older users away and they now use
>>mailing lists to get away from the spams, flames, etc. They are
>>sometimes moderated and even when they are not, whoever runs one can
>>delete an uncivil user.
>
>There's another problem - google themselves.  This newsgroup is a
>perfect example, as google allowed anonymous posting and totally
>ignored any complaints of abuse.  In consequence, we were seeing tons
>of advertisements for rip-off products such as womens goods, shoes,
>watches, and similar.  My stats only go back to 2003, but
>
>          2003   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   2009   2010   2011
>offered  38505  34096  33645  33415  30140  18552  12145   7035   3770
>kills     6139   5450   7898   7961  12628  11090   5996   2449   1309
>percent   15.9   16.0   23.5   23.8   41.9   59.8   49.7   34.8   34.7
>
>The jump in 2007 is rather noticeable
>
>           Jan  Feb  Mar  Apr  May  Jun  Jul  Aug  Sep  Oct  Nov  Dec
>offered   2067 2033 2180 2040 2142 2173 2895 3653 3198 2660 2570 2539
>kills      188  362  213  202  288  592 1051 2266 2094 1899 1726 1747
>percent    9.1 17.8  9.8  9.9 13.4 27.2 36.3 62.0 65.5 71.4 67.2 68.8
>
>>To bad, but the rest of us must suffer from the abuses of the (now)
>>majority.
>
>[compton ~]$ grep -vE '^([%\[ ]|Score|$)' /var/spool/slrnpull/score |
> cut -d' ' -f1 | sort |
> uniq -c | column
>   1326 From:                75 Message-ID:         630 Subject:
>      3 Lines:               49 References:          89 Xref:
>[compton ~]$ 
>
>There are ways to improve the signal/noise ratio.  One of which was
>suggested by Blinky the Shark in his "The Usenet Improvement Project"
>now mirrored at http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/index.html.
>I try to scan 78 Usenet groups every day, and there is a rule in my
>score file that says
>
>  Score:: =-9999
>  Message-ID: googlegroups.com
>  Message-ID: JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums
>
>applicable to 28 groups at the moment.  In the other groups, if I do
>reply to a google poster, my news tool automagically adds this to the
>top of the post:
>
>  NOTE: Posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums) dramatically
>  reduces the chance of your post being seen.  Find a real news server.
>
>Some get the hint.
>
>        Old guy

Google is a good archive but questionable servicewise.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
> not provide Usenet

Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
It is a sad situation.

Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:

http://www.eternal-september.org/

-T

On Monday 02 January 2012 05:21, Todd conveyed the following to 
comp.os.linux.misc...

> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who
>> do not provide Usenet
> 
> Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
> around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
> and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
> It is a sad situation.
> 
> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
> 
> http://www.eternal-september.org/

And although they do have their occasional glitches - nothing is ever 
perfect - they do provide for an excellent nntp service.

My ISP used to have its own nntp service and it was fairly good, but 
although they're still offering it today, it is now no longer run by 
themselves.  Instead, they've contracted out their nntp feed to 
highwinds-media.com, which absolutely sucks.  That's why I myself 
decided to switch to eternal-september.org now about two or maybe three 
years ago, and I'm still using it today.  They don't do binary groups, 
but I don't need those.

There are a few more free nntp servers, but some may have restrictions 
with regard to the number of posts one can make per day, and some of 
them are the favorite news gateways for trolls, so they have a bad 
reputation.  aioe.org and Giganews both fall into that category.

Therefore, I fully second the recommendation of eternal-september.org.

-- 
= Aragorn =
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

Todd wrote:
> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>> not provide Usenet
> 
> Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
> around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
> and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
> It is a sad situation.
> 

Its entirely understandable.

90% of the server cost and 5% of customers wanted it?

I never ran a BINARY server, but boy just running a text only server was 
the single most expensive bit of kit we ever bought.

Usenet as a distributed system made huge sense when all we had was 
UUCP..random phone calls to randomly available machines was utterly 
resilient and diverse, even if messages did sometimes creep in weeks 
after the response to them had vanished..and by the most amusing routes 
sometimes.

With a  more or less resilient IP network capable of instant 
dissemination, there is very little point in having more than one giant 
server per country, if that.



> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
> 
> http://www.eternal-september.org/
> 

As do albasani.

But I think its entirely in the best interest of the Internet at large 
that usenet becomes a minority interest thing.

It belongs to a past age, and although it has a place today, its a niche 
place. I happen to like that niche, but more and more I use it less an 
less..how often dose one post here, get no reply, and find the answer on 
a website somewhere?


MUCH of what it used to do is served far far better by specialist web 
based fora.

They have a far better signal to noise ratio by and large.

And frankly are simpler to set up than a news group


> -T
> 

On 02/01/2012 13:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Todd wrote:
>> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>>> not provide Usenet
>>
>> Noticed that. Even the smaller providers that have survived
>> around these parts have dumped nntp servers. It is both annoying
>> and sad. Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>> It is a sad situation.
>>
>
> Its entirely understandable.
>
> 90% of the server cost and 5% of customers wanted it?
>
> I never ran a BINARY server, but boy just running a text only server was
> the single most expensive bit of kit we ever bought.
>
> Usenet as a distributed system made huge sense when all we had was
> UUCP..random phone calls to randomly available machines was utterly
> resilient and diverse, even if messages did sometimes creep in weeks
> after the response to them had vanished..and by the most amusing routes
> sometimes.
>
> With a more or less resilient IP network capable of instant
> dissemination, there is very little point in having more than one giant
> server per country, if that.
>

There is nothing wrong with that.  As far as I can tell, most Usenet 
access is handled by just a few large servers - small ISP's, and even 
many big ones, don't bother having their own servers.  They simply make 
deals with the big Usenet providers to allow access for their customers. 
  That works perfectly well, and is a tiny cost.

>
>
>> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>>
>> http://www.eternal-september.org/
>>
>
> As do albasani.
>
> But I think its entirely in the best interest of the Internet at large
> that usenet becomes a minority interest thing.
>
> It belongs to a past age, and although it has a place today, its a niche
> place. I happen to like that niche, but more and more I use it less an
> less..how often dose one post here, get no reply, and find the answer on
> a website somewhere?
>
>
> MUCH of what it used to do is served far far better by specialist web
> based fora.
>

There are plenty of types of discussion that is better served by web 
sites, especially if searching, cross-linking, file attachment, or 
complex layout is useful.  But there are lots of other types of forum 
for which newsgroups are vastly better.  They are hugely more efficient 
when there is a group with a large number of new threads - your 
newsreader can pick up all the new threads in all your subscribed 
newsgroups before a browser can load the first page of a web forum.


> They have a far better signal to noise ratio by and large.
>
> And frankly are simpler to set up than a news group
>

New newsgroups are much harder to set up than a new web forum - no 
doubts there.

In article <jdrbd1$kqs$1@dont-email.me>, Todd  <Todd@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>> not provide Usenet
>
>Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
>around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
>and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>It is a sad situation.
>
>Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>
>http://www.eternal-september.org/
>
>-T
>

 still provider nntp service at www.nk.ca via INN .

I also provide feeds as seen in the Top 1000 .
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

In article <jds4s4$qj4$1@dont-email.me>,
Aragorn  <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>On Monday 02 January 2012 05:21, Todd conveyed the following to 
>comp.os.linux.misc...
>
>> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>
>>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who
>>> do not provide Usenet
>> 
>> Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
>> around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
>> and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>> It is a sad situation.
>> 
>> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>> 
>> http://www.eternal-september.org/
>
>And although they do have their occasional glitches - nothing is ever 
>perfect - they do provide for an excellent nntp service.
>
>My ISP used to have its own nntp service and it was fairly good, but 
>although they're still offering it today, it is now no longer run by 
>themselves.  Instead, they've contracted out their nntp feed to 
>highwinds-media.com, which absolutely sucks.  That's why I myself 
>decided to switch to eternal-september.org now about two or maybe three 
>years ago, and I'm still using it today.  They don't do binary groups, 
>but I don't need those.
>
>There are a few more free nntp servers, but some may have restrictions 
>with regard to the number of posts one can make per day, and some of 
>them are the favorite news gateways for trolls, so they have a bad 
>reputation.  aioe.org and Giganews both fall into that category.
>
>Therefore, I fully second the recommendation of eternal-september.org.
>
>-- 
>= Aragorn =
>(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

Encourage ISPs to go INN.  

I have next to no difficulty in using it.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

In article <jds7b0$clq$1@news.albasani.net>,
The Natural Philosopher  <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Todd wrote:
>> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>>> not provide Usenet
>> 
>> Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
>> around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
>> and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>> It is a sad situation.
>> 
>
>Its entirely understandable.
>
>90% of the server cost and 5% of customers wanted it?
>
>I never ran a BINARY server, but boy just running a text only server was 
>the single most expensive bit of kit we ever bought.
>
>Usenet as a distributed system made huge sense when all we had was 
>UUCP..random phone calls to randomly available machines was utterly 
>resilient and diverse, even if messages did sometimes creep in weeks 
>after the response to them had vanished..and by the most amusing routes 
>sometimes.
>
>With a  more or less resilient IP network capable of instant 
>dissemination, there is very little point in having more than one giant 
>server per country, if that.
>
>
>
>> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>> 
>> http://www.eternal-september.org/
>> 
>
>As do albasani.
>
>But I think its entirely in the best interest of the Internet at large 
>that usenet becomes a minority interest thing.
>
>It belongs to a past age, and although it has a place today, its a niche 
>place. I happen to like that niche, but more and more I use it less an 
>less..how often dose one post here, get no reply, and find the answer on 
>a website somewhere?
>
>
>MUCH of what it used to do is served far far better by specialist web 
>based fora.
>
>They have a far better signal to noise ratio by and large.
>
>And frankly are simpler to set up than a news group
>
>
>> -T
>> 

The media wants to discourag usenet.  I was surprised
when UUNet canada dropped usenet sending me scrambling for feeds.

Thank goodnes for inn-workers otherwise 
I would have been dead.

IT seems lie of USenet is dying is being used to kill usenet
in a propaganda fashion.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

In article <cs6dnRoGgdUcN5zSnZ2dnUVZ7vWdnZ2d@lyse.net>,
David Brown  <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>On 02/01/2012 13:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Todd wrote:
>>> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>>>> not provide Usenet
>>>
>>> Noticed that. Even the smaller providers that have survived
>>> around these parts have dumped nntp servers. It is both annoying
>>> and sad. Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>>> It is a sad situation.
>>>
>>
>> Its entirely understandable.
>>
>> 90% of the server cost and 5% of customers wanted it?
>>
>> I never ran a BINARY server, but boy just running a text only server was
>> the single most expensive bit of kit we ever bought.
>>
>> Usenet as a distributed system made huge sense when all we had was
>> UUCP..random phone calls to randomly available machines was utterly
>> resilient and diverse, even if messages did sometimes creep in weeks
>> after the response to them had vanished..and by the most amusing routes
>> sometimes.
>>
>> With a more or less resilient IP network capable of instant
>> dissemination, there is very little point in having more than one giant
>> server per country, if that.
>>
>
>There is nothing wrong with that.  As far as I can tell, most Usenet 
>access is handled by just a few large servers - small ISP's, and even 
>many big ones, don't bother having their own servers.  They simply make 
>deals with the big Usenet providers to allow access for their customers. 
>  That works perfectly well, and is a tiny cost.
>
>>
>>
>>> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>>>
>>> http://www.eternal-september.org/
>>>
>>
>> As do albasani.
>>
>> But I think its entirely in the best interest of the Internet at large
>> that usenet becomes a minority interest thing.
>>
>> It belongs to a past age, and although it has a place today, its a niche
>> place. I happen to like that niche, but more and more I use it less an
>> less..how often dose one post here, get no reply, and find the answer on
>> a website somewhere?
>>
>>
>> MUCH of what it used to do is served far far better by specialist web
>> based fora.
>>
>
>There are plenty of types of discussion that is better served by web 
>sites, especially if searching, cross-linking, file attachment, or 
>complex layout is useful.  But there are lots of other types of forum 
>for which newsgroups are vastly better.  They are hugely more efficient 
>when there is a group with a large number of new threads - your 
>newsreader can pick up all the new threads in all your subscribed 
>newsgroups before a browser can load the first page of a web forum.
>
>
>> They have a far better signal to noise ratio by and large.
>>
>> And frankly are simpler to set up than a news group
>>
>
>New newsgroups are much harder to set up than a new web forum - no 
>doubts there.

IT is easy when you know how.  I still
keep a lot of old skill sets just in case.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <jds7b0$clq$1@news.albasani.net>,
> The Natural Philosopher  <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Todd wrote:
>>> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>>>> not provide Usenet
>>> Noticed that.  Even the smaller providers that have survived
>>> around these parts have dumped nntp servers.  It is both annoying
>>> and sad.  Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>>> It is a sad situation.
>>>
>> Its entirely understandable.
>>
>> 90% of the server cost and 5% of customers wanted it?
>>
>> I never ran a BINARY server, but boy just running a text only server was 
>> the single most expensive bit of kit we ever bought.
>>
>> Usenet as a distributed system made huge sense when all we had was 
>> UUCP..random phone calls to randomly available machines was utterly 
>> resilient and diverse, even if messages did sometimes creep in weeks 
>> after the response to them had vanished..and by the most amusing routes 
>> sometimes.
>>
>> With a  more or less resilient IP network capable of instant 
>> dissemination, there is very little point in having more than one giant 
>> server per country, if that.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>>>
>>> http://www.eternal-september.org/
>>>
>> As do albasani.
>>
>> But I think its entirely in the best interest of the Internet at large 
>> that usenet becomes a minority interest thing.
>>
>> It belongs to a past age, and although it has a place today, its a niche 
>> place. I happen to like that niche, but more and more I use it less an 
>> less..how often dose one post here, get no reply, and find the answer on 
>> a website somewhere?
>>
>>
>> MUCH of what it used to do is served far far better by specialist web 
>> based fora.
>>
>> They have a far better signal to noise ratio by and large.
>>
>> And frankly are simpler to set up than a news group
>>
>>
>>> -T
>>>
> 
> The media wants to discourag usenet.  I was surprised
> when UUNet canada dropped usenet sending me scrambling for feeds.
> 
> Thank goodnes for inn-workers otherwise 
> I would have been dead.
> 
> IT seems lie of USenet is dying is being used to kill usenet
> in a propaganda fashion.

Look its not that at all.

I have been on the other side as an ISP and usenet was something about 
1% of the customers used, that caused > 10% 0f all support calls and 
cost 60% of all the non transport server costs.
It may be simple at the client end but handling gigabytes of news daily 
is tough work and expensive.

And the vast majority of 'new internet users' didn't want it. They 
wanted email and web access. Then they wanted moving pictures.

Usenet doesn't scale well. The web did.


Ergo its a perfectly reasonable decision to hive off usenet to a few 
paying large companies that do it properly and not keep trying to do it 
for a tinpot ISP service yourself.

Theres no conspiracy: Juts plain economics. You want it? Then buy it or 
accept text only from the few freebies around.

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <cs6dnRoGgdUcN5zSnZ2dnUVZ7vWdnZ2d@lyse.net>,
> David Brown  <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>> On 02/01/2012 13:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Todd wrote:
>>>> On 12/31/2011 10:25 AM, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>>>> The smaller ISPs that provided Usenet servers are all going out of
>>>>> business, being replaced by the monopoly servers such as Verizon who do
>>>>> not provide Usenet
>>>> Noticed that. Even the smaller providers that have survived
>>>> around these parts have dumped nntp servers. It is both annoying
>>>> and sad. Oh, and no refunds either after they dropped the service.
>>>> It is a sad situation.
>>>>
>>> Its entirely understandable.
>>>
>>> 90% of the server cost and 5% of customers wanted it?
>>>
>>> I never ran a BINARY server, but boy just running a text only server was
>>> the single most expensive bit of kit we ever bought.
>>>
>>> Usenet as a distributed system made huge sense when all we had was
>>> UUCP..random phone calls to randomly available machines was utterly
>>> resilient and diverse, even if messages did sometimes creep in weeks
>>> after the response to them had vanished..and by the most amusing routes
>>> sometimes.
>>>
>>> With a more or less resilient IP network capable of instant
>>> dissemination, there is very little point in having more than one giant
>>> server per country, if that.
>>>
>> There is nothing wrong with that.  As far as I can tell, most Usenet 
>> access is handled by just a few large servers - small ISP's, and even 
>> many big ones, don't bother having their own servers.  They simply make 
>> deals with the big Usenet providers to allow access for their customers. 
>>  That works perfectly well, and is a tiny cost.
>>
>>>
>>>> Eternal September still provides a free nntp server:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eternal-september.org/
>>>>
>>> As do albasani.
>>>
>>> But I think its entirely in the best interest of the Internet at large
>>> that usenet becomes a minority interest thing.
>>>
>>> It belongs to a past age, and although it has a place today, its a niche
>>> place. I happen to like that niche, but more and more I use it less an
>>> less..how often dose one post here, get no reply, and find the answer on
>>> a website somewhere?
>>>
>>>
>>> MUCH of what it used to do is served far far better by specialist web
>>> based fora.
>>>
>> There are plenty of types of discussion that is better served by web 
>> sites, especially if searching, cross-linking, file attachment, or 
>> complex layout is useful.  But there are lots of other types of forum 
>> for which newsgroups are vastly better.  They are hugely more efficient 
>> when there is a group with a large number of new threads - your 
>> newsreader can pick up all the new threads in all your subscribed 
>> newsgroups before a browser can load the first page of a web forum.
>>
>>
>>> They have a far better signal to noise ratio by and large.
>>>
>>> And frankly are simpler to set up than a news group
>>>
>> New newsgroups are much harder to set up than a new web forum - no 
>> doubts there.
> 
> IT is easy when you know how.  I still
> keep a lot of old skill sets just in case.
#
IF you are running an INN server then yes it is. But a user in userland? 
they don't know where to begin, but they can paste up HTML anywhere.

On 2012-01-02, Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:

> highwinds-media.com, which absolutely sucks.  

Yeah, I tossed my provider that used highwinds, too.  They were jes
horrible.  I went with news.individual.net, the German provider that
charges a measly USD$13 yr.  Excellent service.  Highly recommended:

http://www.individual.net/

nb

-- 
vi --the root of evil

The Doctor wrote:

> I will not give up USenet unless some major disater takes place!

Well, I now have to subscribe to a commercial UseNet provider. It is a
shame, since I am already paying Verizon for this (they did not lower my
rated when they discontinued UseNet) and do not get it from them.

There are two forms in which we will get this disaster of which you speak:

1.) the trolls, spammers, and their icky iolk take over Usenet with
their damned web-browser interfaces and drive away so many Usenet
citizens that there is no point in continuing.

2.) The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.

I think 1 and 2 reinforce each other.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 15:20:01 up 34 days, 5:08, 4 users, load average: 5.94, 5.71, 5.34

In article <slrnjg3tg3.2nb.notbob@nbleet.hcc.net>,
notbob  <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:
>On 2012-01-02, Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>
>> highwinds-media.com, which absolutely sucks.  
>
>Yeah, I tossed my provider that used highwinds, too.  They were jes
>horrible.  I went with news.individual.net, the German provider that
>charges a measly USD$13 yr.  Excellent service.  Highly recommended:
>
>http://www.individual.net/
>
>nb
>
>-- 
>vi --the root of evil

US$13 is rather ceaping yourself out of the market.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

In article <jdt3uj014e7@news6.newsguy.com>,
Jean-David Beyer  <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> I will not give up USenet unless some major disater takes place!
>
>Well, I now have to subscribe to a commercial UseNet provider. It is a
>shame, since I am already paying Verizon for this (they did not lower my
>rated when they discontinued UseNet) and do not get it from them.
>
>There are two forms in which we will get this disaster of which you speak:
>
>1.) the trolls, spammers, and their icky iolk take over Usenet with
>their damned web-browser interfaces and drive away so many Usenet
>citizens that there is no point in continuing.
>
>2.) The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.
>
>I think 1 and 2 reinforce each other.
>
>-- 
>  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
>  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
> ^^-^^ 15:20:01 up 34 days, 5:08, 4 users, load average: 5.94, 5.71, 5.34

The bigger they are, hopefully sooner the harder they fall.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

Jean-David Beyer writes:
> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.

Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

In article <87y5tpojxu.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>,
John Hasler  <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Jean-David Beyer writes:
>> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.
>
>Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
>commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.
>-- 
>John Hasler 
>jhasler@newsguy.com
>Dancing Horse Hill
>Elmwood, WI USA

Unless these entities fade, no internet as we know it.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

Jean-David Beyer writes:
> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.

I wrote:
>Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
>commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.

The Doctor writes:
> Unless these entities fade, no internet as we know it.

Usenet predates the Internet as we know it.  It does not require the
Internet at all.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

John Hasler wrote:

> Jean-David Beyer writes:
>> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.
> 
> Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
> commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.

Nö, es ist nicht PtP.
Es benötigt Newsserver wie "Inn", und deshalb auch wie auch immer geartete 
"ISP", da ein Newsserver auch ein "Internet Service" darstellt

In article <87r4zhogea.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>,
John Hasler  <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Jean-David Beyer writes:
>> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.
>
>I wrote:
>>Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
>>commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.
>
>The Doctor writes:
>> Unless these entities fade, no internet as we know it.
>
>Usenet predates the Internet as we know it.  It does not require the
>Internet at all.
>-- 
>John Hasler 
>jhasler@newsguy.com
>Dancing Horse Hill
>Elmwood, WI USA

NNTP Port 119 and I wonder if UUCP technology will
still be around?
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

In article <jdterg$li3$1@dont-email.me>,
Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=  <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>John Hasler wrote:
>
>> Jean-David Beyer writes:
>>> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.
>> 
>> Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
>> commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.
>
>Nö, es ist nicht PtP.
>Es benötigt Newsserver wie "Inn", und deshalb auch wie auch immer geartete 
>"ISP", da ein Newsserver auch ein "Internet Service" darstellt
>
>

In English please?
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

The Doctor writes:
> NNTP Port 119 and I wonder if UUCP technology will still be around?

It's still in Debian.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

In article <87mxa5odk4.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>,
John Hasler  <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>The Doctor writes:
>> NNTP Port 119 and I wonder if UUCP technology will still be around?
>
>It's still in Debian.
>-- 
>John Hasler 
>jhasler@newsguy.com
>Dancing Horse Hill
>Elmwood, WI USA

UUCP does not require TCP.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising! 
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !

The Doctor writes:
> UUCP does not require TCP.

As I said, Usenet does not require the Internet, and UUCP is still
available in Debian.
-- 
John Hasler 
ihnp4!stolaf!bungia!foundln!john
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

I wrote:
> Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
> commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.

Peter Köhlmann writes:
> Nö, es ist nicht PtP.

Yes it is.  News servers exchange news via a peer-to-peer protocol: there
is no client-server relationship.  The original newsreaders were
local-only programs that read from the news spool maintained on the
local machine by the local newsserver right there on your VAX.  Modern
ones essentially incorporate crippled newsservers and exchange news with
news services using exactly the same protocol that news servers use
among themselves.  Inn is Free Software as are Cnews and Leafnode and
all are in Debian.  You can set up your own news service whenever you
wish.  There is no need for any centralization.


-- 
John Hasler 
ihnp4!stolaf!bungia!foundln!john
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <87r4zhogea.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>,
> John Hasler  <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> Jean-David Beyer writes:
>>> The large ISPs will drive the others out of business.
>> I wrote:
>>> Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
>>> commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.
>> The Doctor writes:
>>> Unless these entities fade, no internet as we know it.
>> Usenet predates the Internet as we know it.  It does not require the
>> Internet at all.
>> -- 
>> John Hasler 
>> jhasler@newsguy.com
>> Dancing Horse Hill
>> Elmwood, WI USA
> 
> NNTP Port 119 and I wonder if UUCP technology will
> still be around?

for sure it can, and its still around in some 3rd world countries.

And its still part of every *nix release, buried in the  packages.

As long as you can buy modems, it will work.


It is after all very simple - its a file copy program. What you do with 
it after the files GET transferred is what counts.

John Hasler wrote:
> I wrote:
>> Usenet can exist without the participation of ISPs or any other
>> commercial entities.  It's the original peer to peer system.
> 
> Peter Köhlmann writes:
>> Nö, es ist nicht PtP.
> 
> Yes it is.  News servers exchange news via a peer-to-peer protocol: there
> is no client-server relationship.  The original newsreaders were
> local-only programs that read from the news spool maintained on the
> local machine by the local newsserver right there on your VAX.  Modern
> ones essentially incorporate crippled newsservers and exchange news with
> news services using exactly the same protocol that news servers use
> among themselves.  Inn is Free Software as are Cnews and Leafnode and
> all are in Debian.  You can set up your own news service whenever you
> wish.  There is no need for any centralization.
> 
> 
yup and you can do it over any file transfer protocol you can find. port 
119 TCP and UUCP being the two most used.

Its not a bad way to hack together an in house or in campus bulletin 
board either.

On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012, at 01:25:34h +0000,
The Natural Philosopher explained:

> It is after all very simple - its a file copy program.
> What you do with it after the files GET transferred is what counts.

Ignore most of the content with a killfile filter?   ;)  ;)