I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).

I have a US ISP that supports this modem, but, importantly, I don't
want to have to write a login macro script for a modem initialization
string. I want to, from within Linux KDE/Knome, "point and click" on a
wizard or Properties tab of an icon to set up my modem using standard,
'plain vanilla', configurations, once I enter the user's password and
log-in ID.  Just like you can do with Windows (the target PC is using
Windows 2000 now).

So, for this configuration, which is the best Linux distro?  I have
downloaded DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu (latest version, but I'm afraid it's too
big or too sophisticated for the target) Vector and Arch distros.  The
target only has a CD reader, not a DVD.

Also the target PC user only does email and light word processing and
printing of text--nothing else, save perhaps reading a PDF file (which
I assume Linux's many web browsers have a plug in to do that, or
perhaps Open Office has a reader for that).  So a distro that supports
these apps is also a requirement.

Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
me?  Please?  Pretty please?

I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
friends like these, who needs enemies?".

RL

On Jul 12, 3:59=A0am, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Also the target PC user only does email and light word processing and
> printing of text--nothing else,

Clarification:  the 'email' done is not from a stand-alone program
like Outlook, but online.  So no need for an email manager like
Outlook.

RL

In comp.os.linux.advocacy raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I ask again (for the 6th time): 

Give it up looopez.
You've done this one to death... beyond death.
NO-one is likely to try to even offer you a snippet of help this time.


-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co.uk   |                                                 |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!"          |
|            in            | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
|     Computer Science     | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"                   |

raylopez99 schreef:
> I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
> it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
> 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
> importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).
> 
> I have a US ISP that supports this modem, but, importantly, I don't
> want to have to write a login macro script for a modem initialization
> string. I want to, from within Linux KDE/Knome, "point and click" on a
> wizard or Properties tab of an icon to set up my modem using standard,
> 'plain vanilla', configurations, once I enter the user's password and
> log-in ID.  Just like you can do with Windows (the target PC is using
> Windows 2000 now).
> 
> So, for this configuration, which is the best Linux distro?  I have
> downloaded DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu (latest version, but I'm afraid it's too
> big or too sophisticated for the target) Vector and Arch distros.  The
> target only has a CD reader, not a DVD.
> 
> Also the target PC user only does email and light word processing and
> printing of text--nothing else, save perhaps reading a PDF file (which
> I assume Linux's many web browsers have a plug in to do that, or
> perhaps Open Office has a reader for that).  So a distro that supports
> these apps is also a requirement.
> 
> Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
> me?  Please?  Pretty please?
> 
> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
> the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
> friends like these, who needs enemies?".
> 
> RL

less than 5 mins of google revealed,
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-laptops/85962-lightest-smallest-pentium-ii-iii-laptop-you-have-running-linux.html
more googling might reveal other answers... ?

also, you did not tell why some of your downloads did not work out (DSL, 
Puppy ) For Ubuntu there's also a CD-download..

-- 
Luuk

Luuk wrote:
> raylopez99 schreef:
>> I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
>> it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
>> 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
>> importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).
>>
>> I have a US ISP that supports this modem, but, importantly, I don't
>> want to have to write a login macro script for a modem initialization
>> string. I want to, from within Linux KDE/Knome, "point and click" on a
>> wizard or Properties tab of an icon to set up my modem using standard,
>> 'plain vanilla', configurations, once I enter the user's password and
>> log-in ID.  Just like you can do with Windows (the target PC is using
>> Windows 2000 now).
>>
>> So, for this configuration, which is the best Linux distro?  I have
>> downloaded DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu (latest version, but I'm afraid it's too
>> big or too sophisticated for the target) Vector and Arch distros.  The
>> target only has a CD reader, not a DVD.
>>
>> Also the target PC user only does email and light word processing and
>> printing of text--nothing else, save perhaps reading a PDF file (which
>> I assume Linux's many web browsers have a plug in to do that, or
>> perhaps Open Office has a reader for that).  So a distro that supports
>> these apps is also a requirement.
>>
>> Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
>> me?  Please?  Pretty please?
>>
>> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
>> the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
>> friends like these, who needs enemies?".
>>
>> RL
> 
> less than 5 mins of google revealed,
> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-laptops/85962-lightest-smallest-pentium-ii-iii-laptop-you-have-running-linux.html 
> 
> more googling might reveal other answers... ?
> 
> also, you did not tell why some of your downloads did not work out (DSL, 
> Puppy ) For Ubuntu there's also a CD-download..
> 
I think he basically did.

He wants a plug'n'play distro that will allow him to continue to be the 
whinging lazy sod that he always has been.

All suggestions he has received meant he would have to actually think, 
and configure something manually.

Hence everyones recommendations that he sticks to windows, for which he 
is the ideal target market.

I am not sure why there seem to be so many people these days who think 
that by whining and complaining, that someone will help them up off the 
toilet and wipe their bottoms for them.

Perhaps because, to date, their mommas always have..

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:59:02 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

(snip)
> 
> Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
> me?  Please?  Pretty please?

Apparently not.
(snip)
-- 
Rick

raylopez99 wrote:
> I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
> it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
> 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
> importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).
> 
> I have a US ISP that supports this modem, but, importantly, I don't
> want to have to write a login macro script for a modem initialization
> string. I want to, from within Linux KDE/Knome, "point and click" on a
> wizard or Properties tab of an icon to set up my modem using standard,
> 'plain vanilla', configurations, once I enter the user's password and
> log-in ID.  Just like you can do with Windows (the target PC is using
> Windows 2000 now).
> 
> So, for this configuration, which is the best Linux distro?  I have
> downloaded DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu (latest version, but I'm afraid it's too
> big or too sophisticated for the target) Vector and Arch distros.  The
> target only has a CD reader, not a DVD.
> 
> Also the target PC user only does email and light word processing and
> printing of text--nothing else, save perhaps reading a PDF file (which
> I assume Linux's many web browsers have a plug in to do that, or
> perhaps Open Office has a reader for that).  So a distro that supports
> these apps is also a requirement.
> 
> Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
> me?  Please?  Pretty please?
> 
> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
> the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
> friends like these, who needs enemies?".
> 
> RL
You had to add that last paragraph, didn't you? Sigh.

IF you add the hard drive, and IF the modem isn't an internal Winmodem, 
you can install Mandriva 2008.1 without disturbing the present Windows 
2000 installation on that system, and it will work fine. You can 
download a multi-CD (I think it's 4) version for free. Keeping current 
with system updates will be a problem with dialup, but that would be the 
case with Windows, too. The KDE GUI will work fine with 512MB, but it 
will, of course, seem sluggish compared to your own Vista computer. 
(Then again, maybe not.)

The modem and several other things will be configured during the 
installation process. If the modem is external, when the installer asks 
which device to configure do NOT select "Modem." That's for an internal 
modem. Select "tty01" for the serial port, or a USB device for USB. The 
modem configuration routine may ask for inputs other than the 
username/password, but if you don't know them, use the defaults.

Firefox and OpenOffice are included, but they are the versions that were 
current when the distro was prepared, in March. There are also versions 
of Acrobat Reader available for download from Adobe, and there are 
several pdf readers included with the distro, like Ghostscript and kpdf.

If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva 
newsgroup. But I'd advise you NOT to cross post those questions to the 
advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all you 
really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for 
failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows 
advocacy group.

TJ

In comp.os.linux.advocacy TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva 
> newsgroup. 

Oh god, don't inflict him on the mandriva group too!
What have they done to deserve that?

> advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all you 
> really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for 
> failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows 
> advocacy group.

I think he knows that... And doesn't give a toss.
Otherwise he wouldn't keep asking the same questions time and time and time
and time and time and... 6... yes... time again...
Whilst utterly ignoring anyone who replies positively.
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co,uk   | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?"   |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   |                                                 |
|            in            | "I think so brain, but this time, you control   |
|     Computer Science     |  the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..."  |

Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times; why 
do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition of 
insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and expecting a 
different outcome.

Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch are 
unsuitable, please tell us WHY.

raylopez99 wrote (in part):

> Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help 
> me?

I doubt it. I think you are beyond help. Perhaps a psychotherapist could
help you, but it would take a while and a lot of work on your part.

> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.

You thought wrongly. The Linux community may _volunteer to help_ those who
are willing to participate in the process; they have no obligation to do so.
They have difficulty helping those who behave like a child having a temper
tantrum.

> But from the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with 
> friends like these, who needs enemies?".
> 
I have almost always (> 99% of the time) found participants on the
Linux-oriented newsgroups to be friendly and usually helpful. But if you
treat them like a disobedient household pet, they may become silent, or
passive-aggressive, or insulting. You have a talent for turning friends into
enemies. You should work on getting over this before you try to install
Linux or have relationships with people or anything else; getting help from
a professional will be much more help to you than upgrading from Windows to
Linux ever will be.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 09:30:01 up 16 days, 18:50, 4 users, load average: 4.15, 4.11, 4.09

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:22:01 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.advocacy TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva
>> newsgroup.
> 
> Oh god, don't inflict him on the mandriva group too! What have they done
> to deserve that?

christonabike.

>> advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all you
>> really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for
>> failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows
>> advocacy group.
> 
> I think he knows that... And doesn't give a toss. Otherwise he wouldn't
> keep asking the same questions time and time and time and time and time
> and... 6... yes... time again... Whilst utterly ignoring anyone who
> replies positively.

But still some will answer, like a knee jerk reaction. 

-- 
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?

On 2008-07-12, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> wrote:
> Luuk wrote:
>> raylopez99 schreef:
[deletia]
>
> I am not sure why there seem to be so many people these days who think 
> that by whining and complaining, that someone will help them up off the 
> toilet and wipe their bottoms for them.

     The "damsel in distress" thing only plays well if you are a damsel.

     Otherwise, it's just bound to get you beaten up or just sneered at.

>
> Perhaps because, to date, their mommas always have..
>


-- 
      If you are going to judge Linux based on how easy 
it is to get onto a Macintosh. Let's try installing          |||
MacOS X on a DELL!                                          / | \

 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------       
                http://www.usenet.com

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:59:02 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
> it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
<snip>
> 
> Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
> me?  Please?  Pretty please?
>
Perhaps, you should re-read the voluminous replies with advice on the
earlier threads. Check my second response to you:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/67f2b407e7805971

It basically says to choose one of the three recommended live CDs,
read the documentation for your chosen live CD, and then follow the
instructions to begin testing it. Until you have actually tested it, these
threads are an exercise in futility. Everyone can only attempt to
write about the potential pitfalls, but your actual experience would
probably be different.
> 
> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
> the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with friends
> like these, who needs enemies?".
> 
> RL
>
Note: comments inline.

Linux used to be a lot more difficult for newbies than it is now. Hell,
some responses claim to meet your criteria. Their chosen distributions
would do the job for you with nary a hiccup. I doubt it; that has not
been my experience. _Any_ operating system has little glitches, and
parameters which need to be fine tuned. You don't seem willing to learn
new things; so, if you already know Windows, then just stick with that. I
am sure that both you and your intended user/victim will be grateful for
that. I'm sure that if anything does go wrong, you will be able to find
more excuses from the vast ocean of Windows glitches. Write them
down- they can really come in handy.

11. "You didn't go to _that_ website, did you? Not with Internet Explorer?"

10. "When is the last time you updated your antivirus?"

9. "To be safe, just turn off you computer when you're not there."

8. "What did you expect? That's Windows 2000. It's expired."

7. "What did you expect? That's Windows XP. It's expired."

6. "What did you expect? That's Windows Vista. Your hardware isn't
/*Vista Ready*/."

5. Telephone support, phase 1:
"Reboot it. Then call me back if it still does it."

4. Telephone support, phase 2:
"On my computer, it's on the "Desktop."
You want to start with "My Computer." Click it.
Okay, just press the "Start" button. No, not the "on" switch. 
Okay, I'll be right over, and I'll bring my computer.

3. "I don't know why it does that."

2. "That _is_ weird."

1. "Maybe, you should just get a Mac."

-- 
http://xkcd.com/386/

On 2008-07-12, raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
> it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
> 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
> importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).

I'm running Slackware 12.1 on a Pentium II 450 w/ 512M ram and it runs great.

Load it and shut the Hell up or jump in front of a speeding bus and die.

nb

In comp.os.linux.misc raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
| I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
| it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
| 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
| importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).
| 
| I have a US ISP that supports this modem, but, importantly, I don't
| want to have to write a login macro script for a modem initialization
| string. I want to, from within Linux KDE/Knome, "point and click" on a
| wizard or Properties tab of an icon to set up my modem using standard,
| 'plain vanilla', configurations, once I enter the user's password and
| log-in ID.  Just like you can do with Windows (the target PC is using
| Windows 2000 now).
| 
| So, for this configuration, which is the best Linux distro?  I have
| downloaded DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu (latest version, but I'm afraid it's too
| big or too sophisticated for the target) Vector and Arch distros.  The
| target only has a CD reader, not a DVD.
| 
| Also the target PC user only does email and light word processing and
| printing of text--nothing else, save perhaps reading a PDF file (which
| I assume Linux's many web browsers have a plug in to do that, or
| perhaps Open Office has a reader for that).  So a distro that supports
| these apps is also a requirement.
| 
| Please, for the love of God, and for the SIXTH time, can somebody help
| me?  Please?  Pretty please?
| 
| I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
| the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
| friends like these, who needs enemies?".

Most of us are only familiar with a subset of distributions.  Your need are
being expressed with particulars that I'm not so sure any distribution can
meet without some changes (by you).

I know I have done similar things with Slackware and made things work quite
well on a P-II machine with 128MB RAM and 10 GB HD.  I wrote my own dialup
script back in 1995 and have been using the same one since, with only a small
change to tweak the way it slows down the dialing rate when it is unable to
get dialed in.  It works from command line.  If you want a point and click
way, you'd have to figure out how to make a graphical widget to click on that
would invoke the script.

When I created that, I had no intention for "like you can do with Windows".
I wanted something more of "like you can do with a Cisco 7500" :-)

What do you mean by "ISP that supports this modem"?  There are standards for
how modems communicate.  Are you referring to the speed (e.g. you have V.34bis
and your ISP does, too)?

For the end user graphical aspect, you'd do better with Ubuntu, particularly
Xubuntu for a smaller machine.  You just need to teach it about legacy modems,
or find its long lost knowledge of them.

Linux is NOT something you can just install and have working.  Xubuntu is quite
close to that for what a great many people do with it, and it might well be
your best starting point.  But unless you happen to be the exact target user
Xubuntu thinks of when they build their distribution (not quite), you will have
to do some of the work yourself, especially in trimming it down for 2 to 3 GB
of HD space (I once had SLS Linux running on 80MB out of a 170MB HD).

-- 
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked.  Due to ignorance |
|         by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked.  If you post to  |
|         Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP.        |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

notbob <notbob@nothome.com> writes:

>On 2008-07-12, raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I ask again (for the 6th time):  the target machine (and this time
>> it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
>> 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
>> importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).

And for the 300th time people have answered you. It is not worth dealing
with you anymore. 

Andrew Halliwell wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva 
>> newsgroup. 
> 
> Oh god, don't inflict him on the mandriva group too!
> What have they done to deserve that?
> 
>> advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all you 
>> really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for 
>> failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows 
>> advocacy group.
> 
> I think he knows that... And doesn't give a toss.
> Otherwise he wouldn't keep asking the same questions time and time and time
> and time and time and... 6... yes... time again...
> Whilst utterly ignoring anyone who replies positively.

You're right, Andrew. Lopez, forget what I said. Mandriva won't work for 
you. It's too big, you have to know your head from a hole in the ground 
to install it properly, the free version doesn't contain ALL software 
available for Linux, and besides, it's from France and you know how THEY 
are. No good would come of any attempt you might make to use it.

Really. Swear to the Deity of your choice. You'd have nothing but 
trouble with it. Find something easier, like Vista. Please.

TJ

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:04:52 +0100, Andrew Halliwell quoth:

> In comp.os.linux.advocacy raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I ask again (for the 6th time): 
> 
> Give it up looopez.
> You've done this one to death... beyond death.
> NO-one is likely to try to even offer you a snippet of help this time.

I hate to join in this thread but I wonder if the OP isn't asking for
something very simple, at this point at least.

I _think_ he wants (now at least) to be directed to a
point-and-click _utility_ that 

[a] either will set up the modem of his client. 
[b] or will start the modem connection once it is configured
[c] or both.

one person suggested using something like vdial but putting an icon on the
desktop to start it up. I don't recall the OP's response to that; since he
is still searching, either he ignored the response or it doesn't satisfy
desiderata [b] or [c].

I cannot help since I haven't dealt with modem connections in a long time
and don't know what gui utilities are out there. taking a quick look at my
SuSE setup - which won't work for him since he needs something more
streamlined - I see I haven't even installed anything modem-ish.

but there must be something in KDE or Gnome which does [b]?

not sure why posted to cola so I snipped that follow-up.


Felmon

In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:

[Snip...]

> not sure why posted to cola

It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple, no?

-- 
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
I toss GoogleGroup posts from gitgo (http://improve-usenet.org).

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:19:38 -0500, Harold Stevens wrote:

> In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:
> 
> [Snip...]
> 
>> not sure why posted to cola
> 
> It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple, no?

Exactly! And I have no doubt there will be similar seventh, eight posts
etc, until *everyone* has plonked the damn troll.

-- 
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?

On Jul 12, 4:20=A0am, Luuk <L...@invalid.lan> wrote:

>
> less than 5 mins of google revealed,http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linu=
x-laptops/85962-lightest-smalles...
> more googling might reveal other answers... ?

I appreciate your input. I just went through the thread and found a
new distro, called "dynebolic" linux.  However, without further input
from this group, I am very skeptical of the claims made about this
distro (at http://www.dynebolic.org/).  Frankly, it 'sounds too good
to be true' (and you know how that usually ends).  Anybody know about
this distro, that claims you can do everything from a live CD?  Can I
surf the web from a CD?  Again, no because you lose settings.  But
what about this distro?  Anybody use it?  Also the rest of the thread
talks about DSL, Vector, etc.

>
> also, you did not tell why some of your downloads did not work out (DSL,
> Puppy ) For Ubuntu there's also a CD-download..
>

I did not yet try any downloads.  I'm just collecting information.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Tx for your input, I've added "dynebolic" to my list of possibles, but
I need more input from user before I burn yet another CD.

RL

On Jul 12, 6:12=A0am, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> You had to add that last paragraph, didn't you? Sigh.
>
> IF you add the hard drive, and IF the modem isn't an internal Winmodem,
> you can install Mandriva 2008.1 without disturbing the present Windows
> 2000 installation on that system, and it will work fine. You can
> download a multi-CD (I think it's 4) version for free.

This is useful but contradicted by the official Mandriva site, which
claims a single ISO CD of Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring is needed.
Perhaps Mandriva charges?  I don't see why you need the 4 CD when the
official site claims 1 CD.  Please clarify.  It takes my DSL 45
minutes to download, and I'm not going to spend the time then find I
need 4 CDs rather than one.  But thanks for your input.


>  Keeping current
> with system updates will be a problem with dialup, but that would be the
> case with Windows, too. The KDE GUI will work fine with 512MB, but it
> will, of course, seem sluggish compared to your own Vista computer.
> (Then again, maybe not.)

Hahaha TJ. Very funny.

>
> The modem and several other things will be configured during the
> installation process. If the modem is external, when the installer asks
> which device to configure do NOT select "Modem." That's for an internal
> modem. Select "tty01" for the serial port, or a USB device for USB. The
> modem configuration routine may ask for inputs other than the
> username/password, but if you don't know them, use the defaults.

This is useful  "tty01" means serial.  Stuff like this is invaluable.
Yes, it's an external modem.  How the heck would I know that "tty01"
means serial unless you told me?  Another strike against Linux.  Now I
have to remember (when I do the installation, months from now) that
"tty01" means serial.  Unbelieveable.

>
> Firefox and OpenOffice are included, but they are the versions that were
> current when the distro was prepared, in March. There are also versions
> of Acrobat Reader available for download from Adobe, and there are
> several pdf readers included with the distro, like Ghostscript and kpdf.
>

Good.


> If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva
> newsgroup. But I'd advise you NOT to cross post those questions to the
> advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all you
> really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for
> failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows
> advocacy group.

OK, understood.  Tx for your help, at least you tried, albeit, like I
say above, the information you gave seems contradicted, at least in
part.

What do you expect from hobbyware / freeware I guess?

RL

On Jul 12, 6:34=A0am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times; why
> do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition of
> insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and expecting a
> different outcome.
>
> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch are
> unsuitable, please tell us WHY.

Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this
thread, you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means
"tty01" during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other
distros have this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?

RL

On Jul 12, 6:40=A0am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:

> I doubt it. I think you are beyond help. Perhaps a psychotherapist could
> help you, but it would take a while and a lot of work on your part.

Projection Jean.

>
> > I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.
>
> You thought wrongly. The Linux community may _volunteer to help_ those wh=
o
> are willing to participate in the process; they have no obligation to do =
so.
> They have difficulty helping those who behave like a child having a tempe=
r
> tantrum.

Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
suggestion.

>
> > But from the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "wit=
h
> > friends like these, who needs enemies?".
>
> I have almost always (> 99% of the time) found participants on the
> Linux-oriented newsgroups to be friendly and usually helpful.

Well the 1% hangs out here then.

> But if you
> treat them like a disobedient household pet, they may become silent, or
> passive-aggressive, or insulting. You have a talent for turning friends i=
nto
> enemies. You should work on getting over this before you try to install
> Linux or have relationships with people or anything else; getting help fr=
om
> a professional will be much more help to you than upgrading from Windows =
to
> Linux ever will be.

Again, projection.  I'm not treating anybody like a pet.  I said
please, is that not enough?

> =A0 .~. =A0Jean-David Beyer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Registered Linux User 8564=
2.

I love it.  In Linux, it's a badge of honor I suppose to be a
registered user (who do you register with, Linus himself, or his
mother?), since there's so few of them.  A 'high' number is 85000, so
you must be a newbie Jean-David Beyer.

RL

On Jul 12, 6:57=A0am, William Poaster <w...@leafnode.amd64.eu> wrote:

> But still some will answer, like a knee jerk reaction.
>
>

Is that you?  My god you're trivial.  You're diminishing daily.  Soon
you will, like the Cheshire cat, simply disappear.

RL

On Jul 12, 8:39=A0am, Douglas Mayne <d...@localhost.localnet> wrote:

>
> Perhaps, you should re-read the voluminous replies with advice on the
> earlier threads. Check my second response to you:http://groups.google.com=
/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/67f2b407e7805971

I have Ubuntu.  For some reason I rejected Slax, but I'll try
downloading it again as a backup.

>
> It basically says to choose one of the three recommended live CDs,
> read the documentation for your chosen live CD, and then follow the
> instructions to begin testing it. Until you have actually tested it, thes=
e
> threads are an exercise in futility. Everyone can only attempt to
> write about the potential pitfalls, but your actual experience would
> probably be different.

Why!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!  THis is WHY Linux is a dud, dude!  Think about
it:  my installation problems will be unreplicable, unrepeatable,
totally unlike yours?!  NOTHING in the Windows world is like this--
NOTHING!  It's true that you do get outliers, but for the most part,
Windows is REPEATABLE.

>
> > I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies. =A0But from
> > the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with friends
> > like these, who needs enemies?".
>
> > RL
>
> Note: comments inline.
>
> Linux used to be a lot more difficult for newbies than it is now. Hell,
> some responses claim to meet your criteria. Their chosen distributions
> would do the job for you with nary a hiccup. I doubt it; that has not
> been my experience.

YES YES YES.  This is exactly what I suspect.  linux is NOT easy to
install.  Ten years ago I dual booted RHAT 5.x with NT, and it took a
week.  I think it's the same now.

> _Any_ operating system has little glitches, and
> parameters which need to be fine tuned. You don't seem willing to learn
> new things; so, if you already know Windows, then just stick with that. I
> am sure that both you and your intended user/victim will be grateful for
> that. I'm sure that if anything does go wrong, you will be able to find
> more excuses from the vast ocean of Windows glitches. Write them
> down- they can really come in handy.


Hahaha.  Funny.  You and TJ should do standup.

RL

On Jul 12, 9:40=A0am, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> On 2008-07-12, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I ask again (for the 6th time): =A0the target machine (and this time
> > it's changed a bit, my apologies, hence this new thread): Pentium II,
> > 512 MB RAM, 2 or 3 GB HD (I might upgrade to 40 GB however), and,
> > importantly, a DIAL UP MODEM ONLY (Haynes compatible modem).
>
> I'm running Slackware 12.1 on a Pentium II 450 w/ 512M ram and it runs gr=
eat.
>
> Load it and shut the Hell up or jump in front of a speeding bus and die.
>
> nb

notbob, I would have believed you, but I think you're just yanking my
chain.  If I spend an hour downloading Slackware 12.1, and it fails,
you'll be laughing.  Give me (please) a URL I can see what the min
system requirements are, and I'll d/l it, otherwise not.

RL

On Jul 12, 10:56=A0am, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Andrew Halliwell wrote:
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva
> >> newsgroup.
>
> > Oh god, don't inflict him on the mandriva group too!
> > What have they done to deserve that?
>
> >> advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all yo=
u
> >> really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for
> >> failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows
> >> advocacy group.
>
> > I think he knows that... And doesn't give a toss.
> > Otherwise he wouldn't keep asking the same questions time and time and =
time
> > and time and time and... 6... yes... time again...
> > Whilst utterly ignoring anyone who replies positively.
>
> You're right, Andrew. Lopez, forget what I said. Mandriva won't work for
> you. It's too big, you have to know your head from a hole in the ground
> to install it properly, the free version doesn't contain ALL software
> available for Linux, and besides, it's from France and you know how THEY
> are. No good would come of any attempt you might make to use it.
>
> Really. Swear to the Deity of your choice. You'd have nothing but
> trouble with it. Find something easier, like Vista. Please.
>
> TJ

FU!  Now that I'm reading this, Mandriva is already half downloaded!!!
F!  Now I must abort the downlaod, though perhaps I'll keep it since
you never know.  SOB!  Now you tell me.

RL

On 2008-07-12, raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:

> notbob, I would have believed you, but I think you're just yanking my
> chain.  If I spend an hour downloading Slackware 12.1, and it fails,
> you'll be laughing.  Give me (please) a URL I can see what the min
> system requirements are, and I'll d/l it, otherwise not.

Hey, I don't give a crap if you believe me or not.  You've been trolling
this crap for weeks.  I also run it on a celeron 433 box with 256 ram (min).
Both are 440bx mobos w/ 1.1 usb.  Slackware's only requirement is an i486
cpu.  If you don't believe me, it's your loss.  

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware

nb

Felmon <davisf@lappie3.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:04:52 +0100, Andrew Halliwell quoth:
> 
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I ask again (for the 6th time): 
>> 
>> Give it up looopez.
>> You've done this one to death... beyond death.
>> NO-one is likely to try to even offer you a snippet of help this time.
> 
> I hate to join in this thread but I wonder if the OP isn't asking for
> something very simple, at this point at least.
> 
> I _think_ he wants (now at least) to be directed to a
> point-and-click _utility_ that 

Nope, he's a wintroll.
None of the suggestions offered by anyone here have been tried.
All he wants to do is fud, ignore everyone's advice and the complain that
no-one will help him.

It's not the first time he's done it. Won't be the last either.
He's a one trick pony.
 
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co.uk   |                                                 |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   | "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
|            in            |  suck is probably the day they start making     |
|     Computer science     |  vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge            |

On Jul 12, 4:56=A0pm, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

> Hey, I don't give a crap if you believe me or not. =A0You've been trollin=
g
> this crap for weeks. =A0I also run it on a celeron 433 box with 256 ram (=
min).
> Both are 440bx mobos w/ 1.1 usb. =A0Slackware's only requirement is an i4=
86
> cpu. =A0If you don't believe me, it's your loss. =A0
>
> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=3Dslackware
>

Ok, but I see it fits on 6 CDs, not one.  So I have to pay for it,
unless I want to spend a day downloading CDs (it takes 45 minutes to
dl a cd on my dsl modem).

THanks but I'll pass.  I have a half dozen distros now and in theory
one should work...

RL

Order the latest version of Slackware Linux on CD-ROM (6 CDs in all),
or the whole distribution on a single DVD from The Slackware Store.

On Jul 12, 4:21=A0pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This is useful but contradicted by the official Mandriva site, which
> claims a single ISO CD of Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring is needed.
> Perhaps Mandriva charges? =A0I don't see why you need the 4 CD when the
> official site claims 1 CD. =A0Please clarify. =A0It takes my DSL 45
> minutes to download, and I'm not going to spend the time then find I
> need 4 CDs rather than one. =A0But thanks for your input.

UPDATE: I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site,
and it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even
though it was an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it,
and tried to burn it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost
money on Mandriva--the cost of the CD.

Chalk up another victory for WIndows...

RL

On 2008-07-13, raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 12, 4:56�pm, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey, I don't give a crap if you believe me or not. �You've been trolling
>> this crap for weeks. �I also run it on a celeron 433 box with 256 ram (min).
>> Both are 440bx mobos w/ 1.1 usb. �Slackware's only requirement is an i486
>> cpu. �If you don't believe me, it's your loss. �
>>
>> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware
>>
>
> Ok, but I see it fits on 6 CDs, not one.  So I have to pay for it,
> unless I want to spend a day downloading CDs (it takes 45 minutes to
> dl a cd on my dsl modem).

....another demonstration of your insincerity.

Why am I not surprised?

[deletia]

-- 

	The social cost of suing/prosecuting individuals           ||| 
for non-commercial copyright infringement far outweighs           / | \
the social value of copyright to begin with.



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On Jul 12, 9:48=A0am, phil-news-nos...@ipal.net wrote:

> Most of us are only familiar with a subset of distributions. =A0Your need=
 are
> being expressed with particulars that I'm not so sure any distribution ca=
n
> meet without some changes (by you).

I see.  I think you're onto something.

>
> I know I have done similar things with Slackware and made things work qui=
te
> well on a P-II machine with 128MB RAM and 10 GB HD. =A0I wrote my own dia=
lup
> script back in 1995 and have been using the same one since, with only a s=
mall
> change to tweak the way it slows down the dialing rate when it is unable =
to
> get dialed in. =A0It works from command line. =A0If you want a point and =
click
> way, you'd have to figure out how to make a graphical widget to click on =
that
> would invoke the script.

Yes, indeed.  I can also spend the time learning Microsoft Visual
Studio .NET, which I'm doing, and it's time better spent,,,,,,,,

>
> When I created that, I had no intention for "like you can do with Windows=
".
> I wanted something more of "like you can do with a Cisco 7500" :-)
>
> What do you mean by "ISP that supports this modem"? =A0There are standard=
s for
> how modems communicate. =A0Are you referring to the speed (e.g. you have =
V.34bis
> and your ISP does, too)?

Yes, that's right.  My modem has V.something and 56k speed.

>
> For the end user graphical aspect, you'd do better with Ubuntu, particula=
rly
> Xubuntu for a smaller machine. =A0You just need to teach it about legacy =
modems,
> or find its long lost knowledge of them.
>

Easier said than done?

> Linux is NOT something you can just install and have working. =A0Xubuntu =
is quite
> close to that for what a great many people do with it, and it might well =
be
> your best starting point. =A0But unless you happen to be the exact target=
 user
> Xubuntu thinks of when they build their distribution (not quite), you wil=
l have
> to do some of the work yourself, especially in trimming it down for 2 to =
3 GB
> of HD space (I once had SLS Linux running on 80MB out of a 170MB HD).

I see.  So, unlike Windows, in LInux you have to tweak the OS to make
it work on your machine.  I guess that's a step up from the old LInux
days when you had to compile the source code to get binary
executables, eh?  Progress.

Well, thanks for your input.  It sounds to me like I should stick with
Windows, just like I thought.  And to think:  I was going to follow up
with a post saying "Assuming I switch to LInux, can I expect crashes
or glitches to simple programs such as a web browser, a text editor
for typing ASCII text, etc?"   I would not be surprised if Linux
crashes routinely over simple plain vanilla stuff like surfing the web
and composing a text document.

RL

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:43:05 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 12, 4:21 pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> This is useful but contradicted by the official Mandriva site, which
>> claims a single ISO CD of Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring is needed. Perhaps
>> Mandriva charges?  I don't see why you need the 4 CD when the official
>> site claims 1 CD.  Please clarify.  It takes my DSL 45 minutes to
>> download, and I'm not going to spend the time then find I need 4 CDs
>> rather than one.  But thanks for your input.
> 
> UPDATE: I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site, and
> it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even though it
> was an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it, and tried to
> burn it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost money on
> Mandriva--the cost of the CD.

MAybe you should have used the correct size medium.

> 
> Chalk up another victory for WIndows...

Which is what you really want.

> 
> RL

-- 
Rick

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:29:44 +0100, William Poaster quoth:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:19:38 -0500, Harold Stevens wrote:
> 
>> In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:
>> 
>> [Snip...]
>> 
>>> not sure why posted to cola
>> 
>> It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple, no?
> 
> Exactly! And I have no doubt there will be similar seventh, eight posts
> etc, until *everyone* has plonked the damn troll.

wow! doesn't the same law of natural selection apply to trolls as applies
to viruses? if the virus is too virulent and kills the host, then the
virus won't be reproductively successful. 

if a troll is too virulent and kills the troll-host replies, then it
won't be reproductively successful?

maybe the trick is subtle mutation combined with finding new troll-hosts.

I don't want to be a troll-sucker but I did think there was a genuine
question being asked about gui utilities for modems.

Felmon

In <pan.2008.07.13.00.56.53.733035@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:

[Snip...]

> question being asked about gui utilities for modems

I think you're late to the thread and/or exposure to this astroturfer. If
you backtrack the entire thread, I think you will see the "questions" are
circular or misdirections, and any useful advice is studiously ignored.

This is typical modus operandi for Flatfish, Moshe, and other wintrolls.

The gratuitous cola inclusion is another typical wintroll tactic. Etc....

JMO; YMMV...

-- 
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
I toss GoogleGroup posts from gitgo (http://improve-usenet.org).

raylopez99 wrote:

> I see.  I think you're onto something.

Oh! There's where that plonk button is...

-- 
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

On 2008-07-13, Rick <none@nomail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:43:05 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:
>
>> On Jul 12, 4:21 pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> This is useful but contradicted by the official Mandriva site, which
>>> claims a single ISO CD of Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring is needed. Perhaps
>>> Mandriva charges?  I don't see why you need the 4 CD when the official
>>> site claims 1 CD.  Please clarify.  It takes my DSL 45 minutes to
>>> download, and I'm not going to spend the time then find I need 4 CDs
>>> rather than one.  But thanks for your input.
>> 
>> UPDATE: I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site, and
>> it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even though it

     It's like you're a professional moron...

[deletia]

-- 
      If you are going to judge Linux based on how easy 
it is to get onto a Macintosh. Let's try installing          |||
MacOS X on a DELL!                                          / | \

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On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:59:02 -0700 (PDT), raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:

Oh shut the fuck up. 

You're too fucking stupid even to operate a toaster.

Get the neighbor's nine year old to help you.  He'll know which of CD
is supposed to face up.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:48:57 -0700, raylopez99 quoth:

> On Jul 12, 9:48 am, phil-news-nos...@ipal.net wrote:
> 
>> Most of us are only familiar with a subset of distributions.  Your
>> need are being expressed with particulars that I'm not so sure any
>> distribution can meet without some changes (by you).
> 
> I see.  I think you're onto something.
> 
> 
>> I know I have done similar things with Slackware and made things work
>> quite well on a P-II machine with 128MB RAM and 10 GB HD.  I wrote my
>> own dialup script back in 1995 and have been using the same one since,
>> with only a small change to tweak the way it slows down the dialing
>> rate when it is unable to get dialed in.  It works from command line.
>>  If you want a point and click way, you'd have to figure out how to
>> make a graphical widget to click on that would invoke the script.
> 
> Yes, indeed.  I can also spend the time learning Microsoft Visual Studio
> .NET, which I'm doing, and it's time better spent,,,,,,,,

I think the suggestion was to get a script running which, as I recall, was
pretty easy to do with vdial, and then create a link on the desktop
pointing to that script.

this is no more complicated than getting some cmd script to run in Windows
and pointing a short-cut to it. vdial makes it very easy to generate the
script.

what I _think_ you want is some gui utility which will manage the modem? I
cannot help there but I am willing to bet such can be had. when you set up
networking in SuSE, that would all have been done during installation.
it's been quite a while since I have fooled with modems so I am not able
to help much with specifics.

maybe if you opened a _separate_ thread, with a clear subject-line, and
asked about gui utilities to handle modems, things would go smoother? it
seems though you, and your respondents, are already pretty exasperated
though.

>> Linux is NOT something you can just install and have working.  Xubuntu
>> is quite close to that for what a great many people do with it, and it
>> might well be your best starting point.  But unless you happen to be
>> the exact target user Xubuntu thinks of when they build their
>> distribution (not quite), you will have to do some of the work
>> yourself, especially in trimming it down for 2 to 3 GB of HD space (I
>> once had SLS Linux running on 80MB out of a 170MB HD).
> 
> I see.  So, unlike Windows, in LInux you have to tweak the OS to make it
> work on your machine.

with all respect to Phil, this doesn't seem true to me. most of the
installs I have done are pretty painless. there can always be some gotcha,
I suppose, but that's life. Windows installs I have done have been kind of
laborious but mostly ok too (I've done Win95, Win2000 (is that the right
designation?), Win98 and XP).

in both cases, after the install, I have had to set this up or that, do
this update or the other, configure and tweak to my own tastes, and so on.
in both cases.

I believe Phil may have had in mind your rather special desiderata -
teensy hard-drive, miniscule memory, etc. a situation which would require
a hell of a lot of tweaking out of XP (if it is at all possible). but you
would expect that, right?

if I misunderstand Phil, I apologize to you. I don't think Linux _usually_
requires a lot of tweaking in other than the above sense. by 'Linux' here
I mean the distributions designed for 'ease of install'.

(I used to slap pclinux and mepis on without much thinking, and would be
done in about 20 mins and on the internet. for some reason the secretary's
machine didn't like my livecd of OpenSuse but I was able to boot to dsl
(damned small linux) in an instant and do a little backing-up of her files
to a usb-drive which had thwarted me under her XP.)

> I guess that's a step up from the old LInux days when you had to compile
> the source code to get binary executables, eh? Progress.
> 
> Well, thanks for your input.  It sounds to me like I should stick with
> Windows, just like I thought.  And to think:  I was going to follow up
> with a post saying "Assuming I switch to LInux, can I expect crashes or
> glitches to simple programs such as a web browser, a text editor for
> typing ASCII text, etc?"   I would not be surprised if Linux crashes
> routinely over simple plain vanilla stuff like surfing the web and
> composing a text document.

I think I agree with others who have advised you to stick to Windows. if
you don't really _want_ Linux to work, then anytime you _do_ encounter a
hitch or just a different way, you will be frustrated. the hitches you
encounter in Windows you either already know how to deal with or anyway,
they don't bother you.

I am not sure of your approach: you come to a group of people, tell them
what they use is crap and ask them to prove otherwise; you get the humanly
expectable scornful reactions and you then tell them you consider them
crappy people. this seems like bad social psychology and bad strategy. do
you agree?

sorry, this post is overlong. won't happen again. I cut off the follow-up
to cola since that seems irrelevant to the technical questions. I am
assuming you are asking for technical purposes.

see if someone can suggest a good gui modem utility. maybe there's
something on google.

Felmon

AZ Nomad wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:59:02 -0700 (PDT), raylopez99
> <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh shut the fuck up.
> 
> You're too fucking stupid even to operate a toaster.
> 
> Get the neighbor's nine year old to help you.  He'll know which of CD
> is supposed to face up.

Absolutely. If he's really that stupid and lazy, he just needs to back away
from the computer and leave it alone. That would be best all around.

I'm betting, though, that it's just another brand of trolling. He's had
*several* different suggestions -- which he ignores. His messages on this
subject are just another example of his trying to make "reality" out of out
of repeated lies.

-- 
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:29:44 +0100 William Poaster <wp@leafnode.amd64.eu> wrote:
| On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:19:38 -0500, Harold Stevens wrote:
| 
|> In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:
|> 
|> [Snip...]
|> 
|>> not sure why posted to cola
|> 
|> It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple, no?
| 
| Exactly! And I have no doubt there will be similar seventh, eight posts
| etc, until *everyone* has plonked the damn troll.

OTOH, if no one ever answered his question, we all as a group are as equally
responsible (though under no obligation otherwise).  If he didn't get an
answer, how does that make him a troll?  The fact that he is persistent?
Of course, if he did get an answer, then it makes no sense for him to post
again.  I have not seen his previous posts, only this "sixth" one.

-- 
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked.  Due to ignorance |
|         by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked.  If you post to  |
|         Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP.        |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:12:53 -0500, RonB <ronb02noSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>AZ Nomad wrote:

>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:59:02 -0700 (PDT), raylopez99
>> <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Oh shut the fuck up.
>> 
>> You're too fucking stupid even to operate a toaster.
>> 
>> Get the neighbor's nine year old to help you.  He'll know which of CD
>> is supposed to face up.

>Absolutely. If he's really that stupid and lazy, he just needs to back away
>from the computer and leave it alone. That would be best all around.

>I'm betting, though, that it's just another brand of trolling. He's had
>*several* different suggestions -- which he ignores. His messages on this
>subject are just another example of his trying to make "reality" out of out
>of repeated lies.

what else can you tell somebody who is incapable of inserting a CD
right ways up?

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 12, 6:12 am, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> You had to add that last paragraph, didn't you? Sigh.
>>
>> IF you add the hard drive, and IF the modem isn't an internal Winmodem,
>> you can install Mandriva 2008.1 without disturbing the present Windows
>> 2000 installation on that system, and it will work fine. You can
>> download a multi-CD (I think it's 4) version for free.
> 
> This is useful but contradicted by the official Mandriva site, which
> claims a single ISO CD of Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring is needed.
> Perhaps Mandriva charges?  I don't see why you need the 4 CD when the
> official site claims 1 CD.  Please clarify.  It takes my DSL 45
> minutes to download, and I'm not going to spend the time then find I
> need 4 CDs rather than one.  But thanks for your input.
> 
> 

As long as I started this, I might as well go through with the 
clarification. Don't blame me for the following procedure - I think it's 
stupid, too. But nobody asked me what I thought, and I didn't volunteer 
my opinion, so I have no right to complain.

The single-CD Mandriva Linux One edition is a "live" cd that can be used 
without bothering your hard drive, or it can be used in conjunction with 
the Mandriva online repositories to make a full install. What you'd want 
is the Mandriva "Free" edition. That requires clicking the other circle 
near the top of the official download page. Select a country, then a 
mirror. I recommend an ftp mirror. Click on the mirror and the dvd 
download will start automatically, because that's the one most people 
want these days. Cancel that, and click on the "if you're having 
problems" link. That will take you to the ftp file list. Download the CD 
ISOs from there. You'll need the i586 versions of Mandriva 2008.1 Free. 
Be sure to check the md5 checksums after downloading. Mandriva can't be 
held responsible for Internet-caused glitches. There are three CDs this 
time around.(There were four the last time I downloaded the CD version. 
The reason there are 3 CDs rather than the one like you have with 
Windows is that most of the apps anybody will need are on that CD set. 
With Windows, you have to spend hours installing each app separately.) 
Install time depends on the packages you select to install and the speed 
of the computer, but a basic, default dual-boot install should be 
finished within a couple of hours.

The Mandriva Free edition is called that not because it's free as in 
beer, though it is, but because it's free as in speech. The software I 
mentioned in another post when I was trying to be funny that's not 
included are some of the proprietary drivers, and software that could be 
used for illegal purposes, like dvd copying. Also, certain copyrighted 
programs, like Sun's java runtime environment and Adobe's Flashplayer 
and Acrobat Reader are not available on the CD, either. They are not 
needed for Linux to function, and can be easily downloaded afterwards, 
mostly from Mandriva Online repositories. Doing that will be one of the 
new skills that your user will need to learn. Don't expect your user to 
just sit down to any Linux distro and start using it like he had been 
for years. There is much to learn, just as there is much to learn when 
starting with Windows.

>>  Keeping current
>> with system updates will be a problem with dialup, but that would be the
>> case with Windows, too. The KDE GUI will work fine with 512MB, but it
>> will, of course, seem sluggish compared to your own Vista computer.
>> (Then again, maybe not.)
> 
> Hahaha TJ. Very funny.
> 
>> The modem and several other things will be configured during the
>> installation process. If the modem is external, when the installer asks
>> which device to configure do NOT select "Modem." That's for an internal
>> modem. Select "tty01" for the serial port, or a USB device for USB. The
>> modem configuration routine may ask for inputs other than the
>> username/password, but if you don't know them, use the defaults.
> 
> This is useful  "tty01" means serial.  Stuff like this is invaluable.
> Yes, it's an external modem.  How the heck would I know that "tty01"
> means serial unless you told me?  Another strike against Linux.  Now I
> have to remember (when I do the installation, months from now) that
> "tty01" means serial.  Unbelieveable.

I know. It got me the first time I came across it, too, back when I was 
on dialup. But think back...When you started using Windows, did you know 
every little thing there was to know about it before you started, or did 
you learn as you went along? You have to be willing to do some of your 
own thinking, rather than letting somebody like Microsoft do it all for 
you. If you want an OS with no transition learning curve, stick to the 
OS you're using now. BTW, that external/tty01 thing may just be a quirk 
with the Mandriva distro configuration tools. Other distros might not do 
that. I only have experience with Mandriva.
> 
>> Firefox and OpenOffice are included, but they are the versions that were
>> current when the distro was prepared, in March. There are also versions
>> of Acrobat Reader available for download from Adobe, and there are
>> several pdf readers included with the distro, like Ghostscript and kpdf.
>>
> 
> Good.
> 
> 
>> If you need to ask questions specific to Mandriva, try the Mandriva
>> newsgroup. But I'd advise you NOT to cross post those questions to the
>> advocacy group. It won't be appreciated by either group. And if all you
>> really want to do is advocate for Windows by setting yourself up for
>> failure with Linux, that won't be appreciated anywhere but a Windows
>> advocacy group.
> 
> OK, understood.  Tx for your help, at least you tried, albeit, like I
> say above, the information you gave seems contradicted, at least in
> part.
> 
> What do you expect from hobbyware / freeware I guess?
> 
> RL
It's comments like that last one that set people off, including me. 
They're the ones that make us all think you're just setting up those of 
us stupid enough to answer you. It's no wonder you're getting the 
responses you're getting.

TJ

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 12, 6:40 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> I doubt it. I think you are beyond help. Perhaps a psychotherapist could
>> help you, but it would take a while and a lot of work on your part.
> 
> Projection Jean.
> 
>>> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.
>> You thought wrongly. The Linux community may _volunteer to help_ those who
>> are willing to participate in the process; they have no obligation to do so.
>> They have difficulty helping those who behave like a child having a temper
>> tantrum.
> 
> Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
> every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
> suggestion.
> 

So you are  little rich boy with a toy business who can't spell.

WTF are you doing in the resl world?

go home to momma.

Or pay someone to do the install for you.

The way of the world is this, id something is nly avialable from someone 
else, and you are not paying for it, you are at the whim of the person 
who has it as to whether they will give it to you.

Irrespective of how much money they earn.

Now the last time I paid serious taxes it was about a million bucks: 
made off the sweat of my brow and the work of a lot of IT dudes who made 
a lot less than that. I respect the fact that they helped me make that 
so I didn't have to work again.

You are an insignificant arrogant little prick, and when your money runs 
out, no one will want to help you make any more. And you had better 
learn how to grovel.


>>> But from the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
>>> friends like these, who needs enemies?".
>> I have almost always (> 99% of the time) found participants on the
>> Linux-oriented newsgroups to be friendly and usually helpful.
> 
> Well the 1% hangs out here then.
> 
No, it doesn't. Your attitude has increased the 1% to 99%, that's all.

For a man who obviusly Sooo..wealthy, you seem to worry a lot about 
burning one CD and throwing it away.
So one assumes you are probably a liar as well as a insignificant little 
prick: In short you and Linux don't belong together. You want a shrink 
wrapped product tailored to YOUR exact specification. Well I suggest you 
go out and but a Mac. Thats exactly the target market that Apple like. 
Overpriced shrink wrapped crap for idiots with too much money snd no 
sense whatsoever.


>> But if you
>> treat them like a disobedient household pet, they may become silent, or
>> passive-aggressive, or insulting. You have a talent for turning friends into
>> enemies. You should work on getting over this before you try to install
>> Linux or have relationships with people or anything else; getting help from
>> a professional will be much more help to you than upgrading from Windows to
>> Linux ever will be.
> 
> Again, projection.  I'm not treating anybody like a pet.  I said
> please, is that not enough?

No, it isn't.
> 
>>   .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
> 
> I love it.  In Linux, it's a badge of honor I suppose to be a
> registered user (who do you register with, Linus himself, or his
> mother?), since there's so few of them.  A 'high' number is 85000, so
> you must be a newbie Jean-David Beyer.
> 

It doesn't take any intelligence to sneer. You haven't realised the 
first basic principle: Linux is not about money or market penetration, 
or commercial success. Its about a decent little operating system for 
those who understand what it is, and why it can work well for them.

You don't even have that basic understanding, so its never going to work 
for you - you simply are not prepared to make the mental effort to get 
to grips with it.




> RL

Felmon wrote:

> I am not sure of your approach: you come to a group of people, tell them
> what they use is crap and ask them to prove otherwise; you get the humanly
> expectable scornful reactions and you then tell them you consider them
> crappy people. this seems like bad social psychology and bad strategy. do
> you agree?

There's a name for such an approach: trolling.

> sorry, this post is overlong. won't happen again. I cut off the follow-up
> to cola since that seems irrelevant to the technical questions. I am

It's quite relevant, and effective, for trolling.

> assuming you are asking for technical purposes.

I'm sure he isn't.


Regards,

Kees.

-- 
Kees Theunissen.

On Jul 12, 9:54=A0pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> The single-CD Mandriva Linux One edition is a "live" cd that can be used

> The reason there are 3 CDs rather than the one like you have with
> Windows is that most of the apps anybody will need are on that CD set.
> With Windows, you have to spend hours installing each app separately.)
> Install time depends on the packages you select to install and the speed
> of the computer, but a basic, default dual-boot install should be
> finished within a couple of hours.
>
> The Mandriva Free edition is called that not because it's free as in

> needed for Linux to function, and can be easily downloaded afterwards,
> mostly from Mandriva Online repositories. Doing that will be one of the
> new skills that your user will need to learn. Don't expect your user to
> just sit down to any Linux distro and start using it like he had been
> for years. There is much to learn, just as there is much to learn when
> starting with Windows.
>

TJ--before I download Mandriva--and it does have a neat GUI, since
I've seen it in a store (or maybe it was plain KDE/Knome, but Mandriva
was on the splash screen)--I need to know why Mandriva Live x586
version is three CDs and not one.  DSL, Arch, Vector, etc fit on one
CD.  I have them.  Mandriva I'd like to try, since it's popular (like
Ubuntu, which I also I think have, if memory serves me, I downloaded
it last year).  But if DSL, which fits on 1 CD, is the same as
Mandriva for this old system, then I don't want to spend time
downloading three CDs.

The answer I'm looking for is this (making this up, but tells you were
I'm coming from): 'Linux DSL, Arch, etc, fit on 1 CD only because they
have very limited functionality--no apps for example, no GUI, etc--and
consequently to get full functionality you need to go online and
download the remaining programs--whether or not they are copyrighted.
By contrast, Mandriva has 3 CDs because it has much more
functionality, even for an old Pentium II like yours, because apps
like OpenOffice, etc, the GUI, etc, are loaded onto the 2 extra CDs.
But even Mandriva needs some copyrighted programs like Adobe to be
downloaded after the CD installation.  However, since you are using a
dialup modem on the target machine, and you have DSL now, it's
recommmended that you download Mandriva now on 3 CDs rather than use
Arch, DSL, etc and have to download the additional functionality later
on a dialup modem'.

That's the answer I'm looking for, to justify downloading Mandriva
now.

Thanks in advance.

RL

On Jul 12, 11:32=A0pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> raylopez99 wrote:
> > On Jul 12, 6:40 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> I doubt it. I think you are beyond help. Perhaps a psychotherapist cou=
ld

> > Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
> > every year. =A0That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for th=
e
> > suggestion.
>
> So you are =A0little rich boy with a toy business who can't spell.
>

Where is my spelling misteak, bozo?

> WTF are you doing in the resl world?
>
> go home to momma.
>
> Or pay someone to do the install for you.

No. And learn to use the backspace key you solesistic clown.

>
> The way of the world is this, id something is nly avialable from someone
> else, and you are not paying for it, you are at the whim of the person
> who has it as to whether they will give it to you.
>

True.  That's why you'll give it to me and like it.  Now give me the
information I seek.  If you don't somebody smarter will.  So STFU.

>
> Now the last time I paid serious taxes it was about a million bucks:
> made off the sweat of my brow and the work of a lot of IT dudes who made
> a lot less than that. I respect the fact that they helped me make that
> so I didn't have to work again.

Wow.  Impressive if true.  But it sounds like you're guilty.  Your
guilty conscience at exploting IT dudes to make money is showing and
telling.

>
> You are an insignificant arrogant little prick, and when your money runs
> out, no one will want to help you make any more. And you had better
> learn how to grovel.

I grovel now, to make money.  It's an art form.

>
> No, it doesn't. Your attitude has increased the 1% to 99%, that's all.

Who cares?  The supply of good samaritans who want to help in Usenet,
regardless of the abuse they receive, is endless.  It's a seller's
market for trolls, as you have shown by replying to my posts
(admittedly with very little substance, so I think I'm being taken by
a fellow troll).

>
> For a man who obviusly Sooo..wealthy, you seem to worry a lot about
> burning one CD and throwing it away.

Time =3D money.  I lost a CD (which are getting harder to find) and time
too.

>  Well I suggest you
> go out and but a Mac. Thats exactly the target market that Apple like.
> Overpriced shrink wrapped crap for idiots with too much money snd no
> sense whatsoever.

And how do they make their money?  The target market?  By exploiting
IT dudes like you?

>
> > Again, projection. =A0I'm not treating anybody like a pet. =A0I said
> > please, is that not enough?
>
> No, it isn't.

Well you're a mean spirited clown, an evil clown.

>
> >> =A0 .~. =A0Jean-David Beyer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Registered Linux User 8=
5642.
>
> > I love it. =A0In Linux, it's a badge of honor I suppose to be a
> > registered user (who do you register with, Linus himself, or his
> > mother?), since there's so few of them. =A0A 'high' number is 85000, so
> > you must be a newbie Jean-David Beyer.
>
> It doesn't take any intelligence to sneer. You haven't realised the
> first basic principle: Linux is not about money or market penetration,
> or commercial success. Its about a decent little operating system for
> those who understand what it is, and why it can work well for them.

Decent Little OS sounds indecent.  Hobbyware c rap.

>
> You don't even have that basic understanding, so its never going to work
> for you - you simply are not prepared to make the mental effort to get
> to grips with it.
>

Well my IQ is over 140 and I was a millionaire by age 30.  Seems I'm
doing something right.

Goodbye clown...

RL

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 12, 6:40 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>> But from the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
>>> friends like these, who needs enemies?".
>> I have almost always (> 99% of the time) found participants on the
>> Linux-oriented newsgroups to be friendly and usually helpful.
> 
> Well the 1% hangs out here then.

Either I stated my remark in an unclear manner or you have trouble parsing
American English. I meant that 99% of the people on Linux-oriented newsgroups,
_including this one_,
were friendly and usually helpful. Some of my problems may have been too
difficult for the people here, but these problems are rare.
> 
>>   .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
> 
> I love it.  In Linux, it's a badge of honor I suppose to be a
> registered user (who do you register with, Linus himself, or his
> mother?), since there's so few of them.  A 'high' number is 85000, so
> you must be a newbie Jean-David Beyer.

Perhaps being a registered Linux user is a "badge of honor." I have never
thought of it that way. If you cared, and I do not suppose you do, you could
have found out about it. You can register yourself and your machines here:

http://counter.li.org/

The highest registered user number as of this morning is 136246.

As far as being a newbie, that is a relative term. I have been using the
UNIX Operating System since the early 1970s and Linux since about mid 1998
with 2.0.32 kernel, so I am a newbie compared with those users of Linux who
used the 0.95 kernel, but if you consider that Linux and UNIX to be fairly
equivalent, then I have been at this over 30 years -- starting with a very
early UNIX kernel that was a bunch of assembler files for the PDP-11, and my
machine was a DEC PDP-11/45 with a memory management unit -- which is a long
time in the software business. I have been paid to write computer program
since the early 1960s, before there was a UNIX Operating System, and
certainly before there was a Microsoft. I probably wrote my first program
before Bill Gates learned to talk.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 05:45:01 up 17 days, 15:05, 4 users, load average: 4.19, 4.16, 4.10

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> I ask again (for the 6th time): 


And what was wrong with damnsmalllinux?


>So, for this configuration, which is the best Linux distro?  I have
>downloaded DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu (latest version, but I'm afraid it's too
>big or too sophisticated for the target) Vector and Arch distros.  The
>target only has a CD reader, not a DVD.


That's a flat lie. DSL can be installed in 128MBytes of DISK, and you
have 2GB.  DSL can fit entirely in your 512MB of RAM with no disk.

You have LOTS of room for adding packages.


> I thought the Linux community was supposed to help newbies.  But from
> the voluminous negative replies, I can only conclude that "with
> friends like these, who needs enemies?".

We have proof that ypou are a troll, because you are not really
interested in solutions, only bitching.

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> I did not yet try any downloads.  I'm just collecting information.
> Sorry for any misunderstanding.


They you are a lazy asshole. You could be running DSL in 5 minutes and that will 
answer your questions.

But Noooooooooooo! You'd rather bitch and complain than get up off
your fat ass and actually DO SOMETHING.

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> Is that you?  My god you're trivial.  You're diminishing daily.  Soon
> you will, like the Cheshire cat, simply disappear.


Tell me - do you actually DO ANYTHING other than insult people?  I
answered your question, and gave you a distro, and you'd rather spend
your time trolling than actually something productive like trying a LiveCD.

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> UPDATE: I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site,
> and it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even
> though it was an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it,
> and tried to burn it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost
> money on Mandriva--the cost of the CD.
>
> Chalk up another victory for WIndows...


So that's your real agenda, eh? I guess you better try to install
Vista on your Pentium II. You have no other choice.

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch are
>> unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
>
> Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this
> thread, you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means
> "tty01" during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other
> distros have this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?

Sure. Because I read the documentation.
But apparently reading is not your strong point.

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
> every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
> suggestion.

Bullshit.

You are too cheap to buy a new $400 PC.

You are too cheap to hire a consultant who can solve your problem in 30 minutes.

You are too cheap that you grip about the cost of burning a CD.

My time is worth $200 an hour. But you can spend days on this problem
just to save a buck.

Again, Bullshit.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy Maxwell Lol <nospam@com.invalid> wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> Is that you?  My god you're trivial.  You're diminishing daily.  Soon
>> you will, like the Cheshire cat, simply disappear.
> 
> 
> Tell me - do you actually DO ANYTHING other than insult people?  

Of course he doesn't.

> I answered your question, and gave you a distro, and you'd rather spend
> your time trolling than actually something productive like trying a
> LiveCD.

He's got his microsoft shares to protect. He'll do anything required to keep
linux at bay in order to keep his share price up so he doesn't lose money.

And fail, miserably, of course.
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co.uk   | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste!         |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   |  I can SMELL!!!  KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and    |
|            in            |  get out the puncture repair kit!"              |
|     Computer Science     |     Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf              |

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> True.  That's why you'll give it to me and like it.  Now give me the
> information I seek.  If you don't somebody smarter will.  So STFU.

We already gave you the information, but you REFUSE to read the
documentation and too LAZY to boot up on a LiveCD of the distro to
even SEE if it's a problem.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy Maxwell Lol <nospam@com.invalid> wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> I did not yet try any downloads.  I'm just collecting information.
>> Sorry for any misunderstanding.
> 
> 
> They you are a lazy asshole. You could be running DSL in 5 minutes and that will 
> answer your questions.
> 
> But Noooooooooooo! You'd rather bitch and complain than get up off
> your fat ass and actually DO SOMETHING.
 
But if he actually INSTALLED linux, he might realise what a fool he's been
in holding onto his microsoft shares for so long! 

Can't have THAT now, can we?
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co,uk   | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?"   |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   |                                                 |
|            in            | "I think so brain, but this time, you control   |
|     Computer Science     |  the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..."  |

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> YES YES YES.  This is exactly what I suspect.  linux is NOT easy to
> install.  Ten years ago I dual booted RHAT 5.x with NT, and it took a
> week.  I think it's the same now.

10 years is about 3 generations in software time.
As I said - you can be running DSL in 5 minutes.
It has dialup modem support.
Yet you never even tried it.

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

> notbob, I would have believed you, but I think you're just yanking my
> chain.  If I spend an hour downloading Slackware 12.1, and it fails,

And how did it fail, troll?

In comp.os.linux.advocacy Maxwell Lol <nospam@com.invalid> wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> YES YES YES.  This is exactly what I suspect.  linux is NOT easy to
>> install.  Ten years ago I dual booted RHAT 5.x with NT, and it took a
>> week.  I think it's the same now.
> 
> 10 years is about 3 generations in software time.
> As I said - you can be running DSL in 5 minutes.
> It has dialup modem support.
> Yet you never even tried it.
 
And never will.
-- 
|                          |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
|  spike1@freenet.co.uk    |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
|                          |can't move, with no hope of rescue.             |
|  Andrew Halliwell BSc    |Consider how lucky you are that life has been   |
|           in             |good to you so far...                           |
|    Computer Science      |   -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 02:36:46 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 12, 9:54 pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> The single-CD Mandriva Linux One edition is a "live" cd that can be
>> used
> 
>> The reason there are 3 CDs rather than the one like you have with
>> Windows is that most of the apps anybody will need are on that CD set.
>> With Windows, you have to spend hours installing each app separately.)
>> Install time depends on the packages you select to install and the
>> speed of the computer, but a basic, default dual-boot install should be
>> finished within a couple of hours.
>>
>> The Mandriva Free edition is called that not because it's free as in
> 
>> needed for Linux to function, and can be easily downloaded afterwards,
>> mostly from Mandriva Online repositories. Doing that will be one of the
>> new skills that your user will need to learn. Don't expect your user to
>> just sit down to any Linux distro and start using it like he had been
>> for years. There is much to learn, just as there is much to learn when
>> starting with Windows.
>>
>>
> TJ--before I download Mandriva--and it does have a neat GUI, since I've
> seen it in a store (or maybe it was plain KDE/Knome, but Mandriva was on
> the splash screen)--I need to know why Mandriva Live x586 version is
> three CDs and not one. 

Why?

> DSL, Arch, Vector, etc fit on one CD.  I have

You have been told why DSL fits on one CD. For that informatio, and the 
requirements to run it, go to <http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/>

> them.  Mandriva I'd like to try, since it's popular (like Ubuntu, which
> I also I think have, if memory serves me, I downloaded it last year). 
> But if DSL, which fits on 1 CD, is the same as Mandriva for this old
> system, then I don't want to spend time downloading three CDs.

Mandriva One is a single CD. You can DL it. The requiremenst are here: 
<http://mandriva.com/en/product/mandriva-linux-one>. The don't seem to 
meet your requiremenets.

You can DL Mandriva one and run it as a LiveCD or install it in a VM.

> 
> The answer I'm looking for is this (making this up, but tells you were
> I'm coming from): 'Linux DSL, Arch, etc, fit on 1 CD only because they
> have very limited functionality--no apps for example, no GUI, etc--and
> consequently to get full functionality you need to go online and
> download the remaining programs--whether or not they are copyrighted. By
> contrast, Mandriva has 3 CDs because it has much more functionality,
> even for an old Pentium II like yours, because apps like OpenOffice,
> etc, the GUI, etc, are loaded onto the 2 extra CDs. But even Mandriva
> needs some copyrighted programs like Adobe to be downloaded after the CD
> installation.  However, since you are using a dialup modem on the target
> machine, and you have DSL now, it's recommmended that you download
> Mandriva now on 3 CDs rather than use Arch, DSL, etc and have to
> download the additional functionality later on a dialup modem'.
> 
> That's the answer I'm looking for, to justify downloading Mandriva now.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> RL

From the page listed above.

" One gives you easy and free access to the official Mandriva Linux 2008 
Spring software repositories, containing more than 17,000 packages.

The selection of applications provided by One meets all the most common 
desktop needs. Still, in case you find yourself in need of more software, 
with just a few clicks you can access the official Mandriva software 
repositories, containing over 17,000 packages. Almost any Linux 
application you might need can be found here. To read about how to access 
these repositories, click here.

What's more, the Mandriva backports system gives you the option of 
getting the very latest versions of certain applications, without waiting 
for the next Mandriva release. To find out about backports, click here."


-- 
Rick

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:29:44 +0100 William Poaster <wp@leafnode.amd64.eu>
> wrote:
> | On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:19:38 -0500, Harold Stevens wrote:
> | 
> |> In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:
> |> 
> |> [Snip...]
> |> 
> |>> not sure why posted to cola
> |> 
> |> It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple,
> |> no?
> | 
> | Exactly! And I have no doubt there will be similar seventh, eight posts
> | etc, until *everyone* has plonked the damn troll.
> 
> OTOH, if no one ever answered his question, we all as a group are as
> equally
> responsible (though under no obligation otherwise).  If he didn't get an
> answer, how does that make him a troll?  The fact that he is persistent?
> Of course, if he did get an answer, then it makes no sense for him to post
> again.  I have not seen his previous posts, only this "sixth" one.
> 

Actually I gave him a workable answer 3 times.  He could have used arch
linux which has 290.7MB CD iso or a 307.5MB USB image as installation
media.  It would install to less than 400MB on the disk, from which he
could add a GUI etc for a less than 1GB foot print,  I done (installed)
this many times.


-- 
Tayo'y mga Pinoy

raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 12, 8:39 am, Douglas Mayne <d...@localhost.localnet> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Perhaps, you should re-read the voluminous replies with advice on the
>> earlier threads. Check my second response to
>>
you:http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/67f2b407e7805971
> 
> I have Ubuntu.  For some reason I rejected Slax, but I'll try
> downloading it again as a backup.
> 
>>
>> It basically says to choose one of the three recommended live CDs,
>> read the documentation for your chosen live CD, and then follow the
>> instructions to begin testing it. Until you have actually tested it,
>> these threads are an exercise in futility. Everyone can only attempt to
>> write about the potential pitfalls, but your actual experience would
>> probably be different.
> 
> Why!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!  THis is WHY Linux is a dud, dude!  Think about
> it:  my installation problems will be unreplicable, unrepeatable,
> totally unlike yours?!  NOTHING in the Windows world is like this--
> NOTHING!  It's true that you do get outliers, but for the most part,
> Windows is REPEATABLE.
> 

Repeatable junk, garbage and BSOD and just doesn't work.

See I agree with you that windows is repeatable bad.

[putolin]
> 
> YES YES YES.  This is exactly what I suspect.  linux is NOT easy to
> install.  Ten years ago I dual booted RHAT 5.x with NT, and it took a
> week.  I think it's the same now.
> 

windows is not easy to install.

How is it I can install GNU/Linux without problems (it just works) and when
I install windows it is just terrible broken, locks up all you get for 10
minutes is the stupid black screened windows graphic upon boot attempt,
what the hell is it doing?  Linux works on this machine without error so it
MUST be windows xp.  The all hardware is good as it has been tested and
memtest ran for 1 week straight found no errors.

-- 
Tayo'y mga Pinoy

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:22:06 -0400, Maxwell Lol wrote:

> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> UPDATE: I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site, and
>> it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even though it
>> was an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it, and tried to
>> burn it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost money on
>> Mandriva--the cost of the CD.
>>
>> Chalk up another victory for WIndows...
> 
> 
> So that's your real agenda, eh? I guess you better try to install Vista on
> your Pentium II. You have no other choice.

He's lying too. I downloaded the Mandriva One Spring a while ago, & it
fits on a CD. I burnt the ISO with k3b, no problems at all.
The troll Dopez99 is just an inept lying POS.


-- 
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:18:46 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:29:44 +0100 William Poaster <wp@leafnode.amd64.eu>
> wrote:
> | On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:19:38 -0500, Harold Stevens wrote:
> | 
> |> In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:
> |> 
> |> [Snip...]
> |> 
> |>> not sure why posted to cola
> |> 
> |> It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple,
> |> no?
> | 
> | Exactly! And I have no doubt there will be similar seventh, eight posts
> | etc, until *everyone* has plonked the damn troll.
> 
> OTOH, if no one ever answered his question, we all as a group are as
> equally responsible (though under no obligation otherwise).  If he didn't
> get an answer, how does that make him a troll?  The fact that he is
> persistent? Of course, if he did get an answer, then it makes no sense for
> him to post again.  I have not seen his previous posts, only this "sixth"
> one.

He GOT answers, dozens of them. HE chose to ignore them & troll. Now the
troll admits that it "did not yet try any downloads.  I'm just collecting
information. Sorry for any misunderstanding."
And yet it bitches & moans about it not burning to a CD & not installing.
<quote> I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site, and it
was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even though it was
an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it, and tried to burn
it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost money on Mandriva--the
cost of the CD. <unquote>

The troll is lying, of course. If it had *really* downloaded the Mandriva
One Spring 2008, it would that it did fit on a cd. I burnt the ISO to a cd
ages ago, & got a Live-CD which I ran & installed Mandriva to another
machine.

-- 
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:22:50 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
>> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times;
>> why do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition
>> of insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and
>> expecting a different outcome.
>>
>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch
>> are unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
> 
> Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this thread,
> you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means "tty01"
> during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other distros have
> this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?
> 
> RL

Don't recall having any 'problem' with the modem when I first got my 
laptop or on my old compaq - both running Linux.

* JEDIDIAH peremptorily fired off this memo:

> On 2008-07-13, raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 12, 4:56�pm, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, I don't give a crap if you believe me or not. You've been trolling
>>> this crap for weeks.
>>
>> Ok, but I see it fits on 6 CDs, not one.  So I have to pay for it,
>> unless I want to spend a day downloading CDs (it takes 45 minutes to
>> dl a cd on my dsl modem).
>
> ...another demonstration of your insincerity.
>
> Why am I not surprised?

Heh heh.  Se�or Dopez is a very competent troll.

-- 
COMPASS [for the CDC-6000 series] is the sort of assembler one expects from
a corporation whose president codes in octal.
		-- J. N. Gray

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Maxwell Lol wrote:

> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
>> every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
>> suggestion.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> You are too cheap to buy a new $400 PC.
>
> You are too cheap to hire a consultant who can solve your problem in 30 minutes.
>
> You are too cheap that you grip about the cost of burning a CD.
>
> My time is worth $200 an hour. But you can spend days on this problem
> just to save a buck.
>
But I thought he said he was the "consultant", doing this install for
someone else.

I'm sure (but since there have been so many reiterations of the same
question I'm not going to go back and look) that he also claimed to be
capable, doing all kinds of things.

Which of course is a bit bogus at this point, since nobody has
"Haynes" compatible modems, and his inability to do anything reflects
his incapability.

Of course, this is irrelevant since he's trolling.

I had no problems installing about a 1997 version of Debian in a 240meg
(not gig, but meg) hard drive in 2000, though I had to be pretty selective
and I couldn't do anything but browse with a text only browser and do 
email, which wasn't that bad since I'd been relying on the shell at my
ISP to do those things.  I decided I should actually buy a reasonable
computer, so I bought a 200MHz Pentium the next year with 32megs of RAM
and a 2gig hard drive.  Tossed Slackware 7 (which I got when I found
a copy of "Slackware Linux for Dummies" (I'm not joking) at a clearance
table) on it, with virtually no problem.  Yes, I had to do some 
configuring, but that's because I was configuring to my needs.  I just
took the bits my ISP provided to set up Linux, and copy and pasted
them into the files they told me about, and there I was.

And everyone goes on about how Slackware is not for beginners.

   Michael

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Maxwell Lol wrote:

> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> UPDATE: I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site,
>> and it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even
>> though it was an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it,
>> and tried to burn it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost
>> money on Mandriva--the cost of the CD.
>>
>> Chalk up another victory for WIndows...
>
>
> So that's your real agenda, eh? I guess you better try to install
> Vista on your Pentium II. You have no other choice.
>
I'm confused.  What's this "Windows" distribution everyone is talking
about?

   Michael

William Poaster <wp@leafnode.amd64.eu> writes:

> And yet it bitches & moans about it not burning to a CD & not installing.
> <quote> I just downloaded the .ISO from the official Mandriva site, and it
> was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1 CD, even though it was
> an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero accepted it, and tried to burn
> it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So I lost money on Mandriva--the
> cost of the CD. <unquote>
>
> The troll is lying, of course. If it had *really* downloaded the Mandriva
> One Spring 2008, it would that it did fit on a cd. I burnt the ISO to a cd
> ages ago, & got a Live-CD which I ran & installed Mandriva to another
> machine.

There are 650MB CDRs and 700MB CDRs.
What this person claims is possible.

On Jul 13, 3:10=A0am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:

> As far as being a newbie, that is a relative term. I have been using the
> UNIX Operating System since the early 1970s and Linux since about mid 199=
8
> with 2.0.32 kernel, so I am a newbie compared with those users of Linux w=
ho
> used the 0.95 kernel, but if you consider that Linux and UNIX to be fairl=
y
> equivalent, then I have been at this over 30 years -- starting with a ver=
y
> early UNIX kernel that was a bunch of assembler files for the PDP-11, and=
 my
> machine was a DEC PDP-11/45 with a memory management unit -- which is a l=
ong
> time in the software business. I have been paid to write computer program
> since the early 1960s, before there was a UNIX Operating System, and
> certainly before there was a Microsoft. I probably wrote my first program
> before Bill Gates learned to talk.

Shiite, I'm sorry then.  I did not realize that you were a pioneer in
C. Sci.--I thought you were an ordinary chump like us.  Now I
understand why you love Linux--it's closer to the machine, for egghead
types like you.  Like I've said in another post, for very
sophisticated users like you, Linux is good.  But you have to be a
Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fully.  For most of us (and I code in C,
C++, C#, VB, and have built many a system from scratch, and had NT and
RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10 years ago), Linux has too steep of a
learning curve.

RL

On Jul 13, 5:46=A0am, Baho Utot <baho-u...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> windows is not easy to install.
>
Neither is LInux.  BTW I did download the 'slax' that the author of
that thread recommended.  Not sure though if it has dialup modem
support (I'll find out the hard way maybe, if I cant' get Windows 2000
to work better).

RL

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:00:56 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 13, 5:46 am, Baho Utot <baho-u...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> windows is not easy to install.
>>
> Neither is LInux.  

Yes, it is.

> BTW I did download the 'slax' that the author of that
> thread recommended.  Not sure though if it has dialup modem support
> (I'll find out the hard way maybe, if I cant' get Windows 2000 to work
> better).
> 
> RL

Why don't you ask in Slack related groups and forums?



-- 
Rick

raylopez99 wrote:

[putolin]

> sophisticated users like you, Linux is good.  But you have to be a
> Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fully.  For most of us (and I code in C,
> C++, C#, VB, and have built many a system from scratch, and had NT and
> RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10 years ago), Linux has too steep of a
> learning curve.

Assembling purchased parts in _NOT_ building a system from scratch.  At
least that is not my definition.  I have built up systems from assembling
parts and compiling the OS from scratch as well as writing all the scripts
to make it boot. And I still would not call that building a system from
scratch.

-- 
Tayo'y mga Pinoy

ray wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:22:50 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:
> 
>> On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times;
>>> why do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition
>>> of insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and
>>> expecting a different outcome.
>>>
>>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch
>>> are unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
>> Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this thread,
>> you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means "tty01"
>> during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other distros have
>> this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?
>>
>> RL
> 
> Don't recall having any 'problem' with the modem when I first got my 
> laptop or on my old compaq - both running Linux.

I didn't have a problem with the first versions of Mandriva (then called 
Mandrake), either. Somewhere during the transition from Mandrake to 
Mandriva, the thing cropped up during an install, and as far as I know, 
it's been there ever since. Maybe it only shows up when a motherboard 
has a CNR slot, like mine does. Come to think of it, that only came up 
AFTER I bought this computer, so that's probably it.

TJ

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 3:10 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> As far as being a newbie, that is a relative term. I have been using the
>> UNIX Operating System since the early 1970s and Linux since about mid 1998
>> with 2.0.32 kernel, so I am a newbie compared with those users of Linux who
>> used the 0.95 kernel, but if you consider that Linux and UNIX to be fairly
>> equivalent, then I have been at this over 30 years -- starting with a very
>> early UNIX kernel that was a bunch of assembler files for the PDP-11, and my
>> machine was a DEC PDP-11/45 with a memory management unit -- which is a long
>> time in the software business. I have been paid to write computer program
>> since the early 1960s, before there was a UNIX Operating System, and
>> certainly before there was a Microsoft. I probably wrote my first program
>> before Bill Gates learned to talk.
> 
> Shiite, I'm sorry then.  I did not realize that you were a pioneer in
> C. Sci.--I thought you were an ordinary chump like us.  Now I
> understand why you love Linux--it's closer to the machine, for egghead
> types like you.  Like I've said in another post, for very
> sophisticated users like you, Linux is good.  But you have to be a
> Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fully.  For most of us (and I code in C,
> C++, C#, VB, and have built many a system from scratch, and had NT and
> RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10 years ago), Linux has too steep of a
> learning curve.
> 
> RL

Not so. I don't have a Ph.D - or anywhere near it's equivalent, and the 
learning curve wasn't beyond my capabilities. In fact, I found it easier 
to learn to use Linux than Windows. Do I use it "fully?" Nope, but I use 
it more than I was ever able to use Windows.

BTW, my highest educational achievement was a BSEE in 1971, and I 
haven't been current in that field for a very long time. My life led me 
in another direction, but I didn't forget how to learn things. It 
doesn't just happen. You gotta work at anything you learn, if you are to 
truly master it.

TJ

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:26:35 +0000, Dan Espen wrote:

> William Poaster <wp@leafnode.amd64.eu> writes:
> 
>> And yet it bitches & moans about it not burning to a CD & not
>> installing. <quote> I just downloaded the .ISO from the official
>> Mandriva site, and it was 700MB+ large.  I figured it would not fit on 1
>> CD, even though it was an .ISO file, and sure enough, though Nero
>> accepted it, and tried to burn it, at the end of the burn it failed.  So
>> I lost money on Mandriva--the cost of the CD. <unquote>
>>
>> The troll is lying, of course. If it had *really* downloaded the
>> Mandriva One Spring 2008, it would that it did fit on a cd. I burnt the
>> ISO to a cd ages ago, & got a Live-CD which I ran & installed Mandriva
>> to another machine.
> 
> There are 650MB CDRs and 700MB CDRs.
> What this person claims is possible.

In that case the troll is *really* dumb for trying to burn a 700MB+ ISO
onto a 650MB cd!

-- 
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?

TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> writes:

>ray wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:22:50 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>>> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times;
>>>> why do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition
>>>> of insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and
>>>> expecting a different outcome.
>>>>
>>>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch
>>>> are unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
>>> Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this thread,
>>> you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means "tty01"

If you "know" that they you know wrong. It is /dev/ttyS0. Just as on
Windows you have to know it is COM1: 

>>> during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other distros have
>>> this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?
>>>
>>> RL
>> 
>> Don't recall having any 'problem' with the modem when I first got my 
>> laptop or on my old compaq - both running Linux.

>I didn't have a problem with the first versions of Mandriva (then called 
>Mandrake), either. Somewhere during the transition from Mandrake to 
>Mandriva, the thing cropped up during an install, and as far as I know, 

What "thing"

>it's been there ever since. Maybe it only shows up when a motherboard 
>has a CNR slot, like mine does. Come to think of it, that only came up 
>AFTER I bought this computer, so that's probably it.

>TJ

Unruh wrote:
> TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> writes:
> 
>> ray wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:22:50 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>>>> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times;
>>>>> why do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition
>>>>> of insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and
>>>>> expecting a different outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch
>>>>> are unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
>>>> Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this thread,
>>>> you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means "tty01"
> 
> If you "know" that they you know wrong. It is /dev/ttyS0. Just as on
> Windows you have to know it is COM1: 
> 
Yep, that's it. I was wrong in my nomenclature, but the idea was there. 
I wrote that off the top of my head, and it's been three years since I 
had to deal with it, and I forgot some specifics. I should have checked 
for the proper nomenclature before I typed it.

>>>> during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other distros have
>>>> this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?
>>>>
>>>> RL
>>> Don't recall having any 'problem' with the modem when I first got my 
>>> laptop or on my old compaq - both running Linux.
> 
>> I didn't have a problem with the first versions of Mandriva (then called 
>> Mandrake), either. Somewhere during the transition from Mandrake to 
>> Mandriva, the thing cropped up during an install, and as far as I know, 
> 
> What "thing"

The computer I had before this one didn't have a special internal modem 
slot, so I'm now assuming the choice wasn't presented to me when I set 
up kppp as my dialer because of that. When asked what sort of network 
device I wanted to configure, I answered "modem" and that was it. With 
the new computer, configuring "modem" didn't work. I had to specify the 
device by port. It threw me for a while, until I figured it out - which 
I did by myself BTW, without running to Usenet for help. The OP wouldn't 
have the patience for that.

That was in my earlier days with Linux. You may remember an earlier time 
of your own with Linux, back when you didn't know everything. None of us 
starts out as an expert, and most of us never achieve that lofty status. 
It doesn't prevent us from trying and learning, however.

TJ

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 12, 9:54 pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> The single-CD Mandriva Linux One edition is a "live" cd that can be
>> used
> 
>> The reason there are 3 CDs rather than the one like you have with 
>> Windows is that most of the apps anybody will need are on that CD
>> set. With Windows, you have to spend hours installing each app
>> separately.) Install time depends on the packages you select to
>> install and the speed of the computer, but a basic, default
>> dual-boot install should be finished within a couple of hours.
>> 
>> The Mandriva Free edition is called that not because it's free as
>> in
> 
>> needed for Linux to function, and can be easily downloaded
>> afterwards, mostly from Mandriva Online repositories. Doing that
>> will be one of the new skills that your user will need to learn.
>> Don't expect your user to just sit down to any Linux distro and
>> start using it like he had been for years. There is much to learn,
>> just as there is much to learn when starting with Windows.
>> 
> 
> TJ--before I download Mandriva--and it does have a neat GUI, since 
> I've seen it in a store (or maybe it was plain KDE/Knome, but
> Mandriva was on the splash screen)--I need to know why Mandriva Live
> x586 version is three CDs and not one.  DSL, Arch, Vector, etc fit on
> one CD.  I have them.  Mandriva I'd like to try, since it's popular
> (like Ubuntu, which I also I think have, if memory serves me, I
> downloaded it last year).  But if DSL, which fits on 1 CD, is the
> same as Mandriva for this old system, then I don't want to spend time
>  downloading three CDs.
> 
> The answer I'm looking for is this (making this up, but tells you
> were I'm coming from): 'Linux DSL, Arch, etc, fit on 1 CD only
> because they have very limited functionality--no apps for example, no
> GUI, etc--and consequently to get full functionality you need to go
> online and download the remaining programs--whether or not they are
> copyrighted. By contrast, Mandriva has 3 CDs because it has much more
>  functionality, even for an old Pentium II like yours, because apps 
> like OpenOffice, etc, the GUI, etc, are loaded onto the 2 extra CDs. 
> But even Mandriva needs some copyrighted programs like Adobe to be 
> downloaded after the CD installation.  However, since you are using a
>  dialup modem on the target machine, and you have DSL now, it's 
> recommmended that you download Mandriva now on 3 CDs rather than use 
> Arch, DSL, etc and have to download the additional functionality
> later on a dialup modem'.
> 
> That's the answer I'm looking for, to justify downloading Mandriva 
> now.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> RL

That's "Gnome," not "Knome."

Well, yes and no. (Remember, I've already said I don't have any
experience with other distributions.) From the way you described the
needs of the target user, any of the distros listed would provide
sufficient functionality. The Mandriva 3-cd set will have a large number
of programs and apps that would be of no use to that particular user.
However, remember that any system needs periodic maintenance, even
(gasp!) Vista and XP. Mandriva has GUI configuration tools that make
that easier than some others distros might. There also is some
documentation included that, if installed, helps you get started in
using them. But all that takes space, and if hard drive or media space
is limited, something has to be sacrificed. Most people would sacrifice 
the GUI before functionality. Even you, I think.

Now, I'm confused. You stated in another post that blank CDs are hard to 
find. I just looked at one retailer, New Egg, and I see hundreds of them 
available for, depending on your brand preference, around 20-30 cents 
each. What's the problem?

TJ

In comp.os.linux.advocacy TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Now, I'm confused. You stated in another post that blank CDs are hard to 
> find. I just looked at one retailer, New Egg, and I see hundreds of them 
> available for, depending on your brand preference, around 20-30 cents 
> each. What's the problem?

The problem is he's a troll making up excuse after excuse after excuse for
not trying any of the advised distros.

He has no intention and never did.
All he cares about is perpetuating the myth that linux is complicated and
difficult to install and use in order to convince people that windows is the
one to stick with, thus preserving the value of his microsoft shares (which
he has bragged about in COLA many times)
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co.uk   |                                                 |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   | "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
|            in            |  suck is probably the day they start making     |
|     Computer science     |  vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge            |

On Jul 13, 9:22=A0am, Rick <n...@nomail.com> wrote:

>
> Why don't you ask in Slack related groups and forums?
>

Why don't you tell me Dick?  You seems to know it all.

Ray

On Jul 13, 12:50=A0pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Unruh wrote:
> > TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
> >> ray wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:22:50 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:
>
> >>>> On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times=
;
> >>>>> why do you think you should get any different ones now? One definit=
ion
> >>>>> of insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and
> >>>>> expecting a different outcome.
>
> >>>>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arc=
h
> >>>>> are unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
> >>>> Why? =A0I'll explain my fellow Ray: =A0because like TJ says in this =
thread,
> >>>> you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means "tty01"
>
> > If you "know" that they you know wrong. It is /dev/ttyS0. Just as on
> > Windows you have to know it is COM1:
>
> Yep, that's it. I was wrong in my nomenclature, but the idea was there.
> I wrote that off the top of my head, and it's been three years since I
> had to deal with it, and I forgot some specifics. I should have checked
> for the proper nomenclature before I typed it.
>
> >>>> during installation of Mandriva. =A0I wonder if the other distros ha=
ve
> >>>> this 'feature' or 'bug'. =A0Does that make sense to you?
>
> >>>> RL
> >>> Don't recall having any 'problem' with the modem when I first got my
> >>> laptop or on my old compaq - both running Linux.
>
> >> I didn't have a problem with the first versions of Mandriva (then call=
ed
> >> Mandrake), either. Somewhere during the transition from Mandrake to
> >> Mandriva, the thing cropped up during an install, and as far as I know=
,
>
> > What "thing"
>
> The computer I had before this one didn't have a special internal modem
> slot, so I'm now assuming the choice wasn't presented to me when I set
> up kppp as my dialer because of that. When asked what sort of network
> device I wanted to configure, I answered "modem" and that was it. With
> the new computer, configuring "modem" didn't work. I had to specify the
> device by port. It threw me for a while, until I figured it out - which
> I did by myself BTW, without running to Usenet for help. The OP wouldn't
> have the patience for that.
>
> That was in my earlier days with Linux. You may remember an earlier time
> of your own with Linux, back when you didn't know everything. None of us
> starts out as an expert, and most of us never achieve that lofty status.
> It doesn't prevent us from trying and learning, however.
>
> TJ

Wow. This exchange speaks volumes. First, Unruly Unruh talks down to
TJ, though both are in the Linux camp.  So much for Linux solidarity.
Next, TJ admits that figuring out where the modem port is 'threw me'
for a while, which is sobering--how long is a 'while'?  Could be
minutes, could be days and weeks.  Finally, the implication is that
LInux is a life-long learning endeavor.  Given that much time, I'll
learn to code better, or to play chess better, or be a better person,
rather than learning how to mount a disk drive (in the Windows world,
you just stick the floppy into the slot and it works--in Linux you
have to 'mount' and 'dismount' and from a LiveCD of Ubuntu last year,
that's about the point where the program crashed and I had to do a
reboot).

RL

On Jul 13, 1:09=A0pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> That's "Gnome," not "Knome."
>
> Well, yes and no. (Remember, I've already said I don't have any
> experience with other distributions.) From the way you described the
> needs of the target user, any of the distros listed would provide
> sufficient functionality. The Mandriva 3-cd set will have a large number
> of programs and apps that would be of no use to that particular user.
> However, remember that any system needs periodic maintenance, even
> (gasp!) Vista and XP. Mandriva has GUI configuration tools that make
> that easier than some others distros might. There also is some
> documentation included that, if installed, helps you get started in
> using them. But all that takes space, and if hard drive or media space
> is limited, something has to be sacrificed. Most people would sacrifice
> the GUI before functionality. Even you, I think.

OK, I'll keep in mind (or try to remember, as so much stuff has to be
remembered it seems with Linux) that Mandriva is a very complex or
sophisticated distro.  Probably not for the target machine or user I
have in mind.

>
> Now, I'm confused. You stated in another post that blank CDs are hard to
> find. I just looked at one retailer, New Egg, and I see hundreds of them
> available for, depending on your brand preference, around 20-30 cents
> each. What's the problem?

I'm in SE Europe.  They cost about 75 cents each here.  Everything
here is more expensive, that's why all the Europeans go to NYC to
shop, and it more than pays for even the airplane ticket.

RL

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 12:50 pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Unruh wrote:
>>> TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> ray wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:22:50 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:
>>>>>> On Jul 12, 6:34 am, ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Please go away. You've gotten the same answers the first five times;
>>>>>>> why do you think you should get any different ones now? One definition
>>>>>>> of insanity is repeating the same experiment time after time and
>>>>>>> expecting a different outcome.
>>>>>>> Or, if you refuse to quit and if DSL, Puppy, Ubuntu, Vector and Arch
>>>>>>> are unsuitable, please tell us WHY.
>>>>>> Why?  I'll explain my fellow Ray:  because like TJ says in this thread,
>>>>>> you have to know stuff like "serial modem / external" means "tty01"
>>> If you "know" that they you know wrong. It is /dev/ttyS0. Just as on
>>> Windows you have to know it is COM1:
>> Yep, that's it. I was wrong in my nomenclature, but the idea was there.
>> I wrote that off the top of my head, and it's been three years since I
>> had to deal with it, and I forgot some specifics. I should have checked
>> for the proper nomenclature before I typed it.
>>
>>>>>> during installation of Mandriva.  I wonder if the other distros have
>>>>>> this 'feature' or 'bug'.  Does that make sense to you?
>>>>>> RL
>>>>> Don't recall having any 'problem' with the modem when I first got my
>>>>> laptop or on my old compaq - both running Linux.
>>>> I didn't have a problem with the first versions of Mandriva (then called
>>>> Mandrake), either. Somewhere during the transition from Mandrake to
>>>> Mandriva, the thing cropped up during an install, and as far as I know,
>>> What "thing"
>> The computer I had before this one didn't have a special internal modem
>> slot, so I'm now assuming the choice wasn't presented to me when I set
>> up kppp as my dialer because of that. When asked what sort of network
>> device I wanted to configure, I answered "modem" and that was it. With
>> the new computer, configuring "modem" didn't work. I had to specify the
>> device by port. It threw me for a while, until I figured it out - which
>> I did by myself BTW, without running to Usenet for help. The OP wouldn't
>> have the patience for that.
>>
>> That was in my earlier days with Linux. You may remember an earlier time
>> of your own with Linux, back when you didn't know everything. None of us
>> starts out as an expert, and most of us never achieve that lofty status.
>> It doesn't prevent us from trying and learning, however.
>>
>> TJ
> 
> Wow. This exchange speaks volumes. First, Unruly Unruh talks down to
> TJ, though both are in the Linux camp.  So much for Linux solidarity.
> Next, TJ admits that figuring out where the modem port is 'threw me'
> for a while, which is sobering--how long is a 'while'?  Could be
> minutes, could be days and weeks.  Finally, the implication is that
> LInux is a life-long learning endeavor.  Given that much time, I'll
> learn to code better, or to play chess better, or be a better person,
> rather than learning how to mount a disk drive (in the Windows world,
> you just stick the floppy into the slot and it works--in Linux you
> have to 'mount' and 'dismount' and from a LiveCD of Ubuntu last year,
> that's about the point where the program crashed and I had to do a
> reboot).
> 
> RL

OK, that tears it. I've given you more benefit of the doubt than anybody 
with half a brain would, but even I have my limits. Now you're just 
twisting my words to suit your trollish behavior, just as all the others 
said you would. Enough is too much, and after this post I will not 
respond to you again.

First off, "a while" was an afternoon, as I remember. That would be 
about the same amount of time it took me to install my last Windows 
system. Just the basic system, never mind the apps. And trust me, you'd 
need a lot more time than that to become a better person. You have much 
too much work to do in that regard.

Second, when I stick a floppy into the slot (Gawd, you still use 
FLOPPIES?) with Mandriva Linux, it just works. Mounts all by itself. 
It's the same way with the usb cable for one of my digital cameras, and 
when I stick a memory card into the card reader for the other one. Same 
thing for my external hard drive. No drivers to install, no waiting for 
a "new hardware" wizard - they just work, first time and every time. 
With Mandriva, my ethernet connection was detected and configured 
automatically right from the start, unlike Windows, where I had to 
download updated drivers from the motherboard manufacturer before I 
could use it. Linux just worked. I haven't had Linux do anything BUT 
"just work" in the last four years. And in those four years I haven't 
had to wait while my antivirus program updates its database before I can 
start work for the day. Not once. Never had to remove spyware, either. I 
didn't have to throw out a perfectly good computer because somebody in 
Redmond decided for me that I should buy a newer one to be able to use 
their new whiz-bang eye candy. I sleep well at night, secure in the 
knowledge that some zombifier won't take over my computer for 
God-know-what purpose.

And I've used all the time I've saved (not to mention piles of cash) by 
not using Windows to do a better job at my profession, spend some 
quality time with my family, and go fishing now and then.

Tell you what, Lopez... You use what you want to use, and I'll leave you 
alone. I'll use what I want to use and ignore your existence. Fair enough?

TJ

TJ wrote:

> Tell you what, Lopez... You use what you want to use, and I'll leave you
> alone. I'll use what I want to use and ignore your existence. Fair enough?

Let's just put it this way. He has a hell of a lot more choice with Linux on
that machine than he has with Windows.

But if NT is working for him, he needs to get used to the virus scanner
slowing it down to a crawl, and just keep using it.

It's either that or do a little thinking -- a little research, and maybe a
little experimentation.

Or, of course, he can post his constant whining here, if he's too lazy use
his brain for a few minutes.

-- 
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:47:25 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 13, 9:22 am, Rick <n...@nomail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Why don't you ask in Slack related groups and forums?
>>
>>
> Why don't you tell me Dick?  You seems to know it all.
> 
> Ray


Who are you talking to?


-- 
Rick

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 12, 11:32 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
>> raylopez99 wrote:
>>> On Jul 12, 6:40 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> I doubt it. I think you are beyond help. Perhaps a psychotherapist could
> 
>>> Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
>>> every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
>>> suggestion.
>> So you are  little rich boy with a toy business who can't spell.
>>
> 
> Where is my spelling misteak, bozo?
> 
                       ^^^^^^^^ right there.

>> WTF are you doing in the resl world?
>>
>> go home to momma.
>>
>> Or pay someone to do the install for you.
> 
> No. And learn to use the backspace key you solesistic clown.
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^ there's another 
one!
> 
>> The way of the world is this, id something is nly avialable from someone
>> else, and you are not paying for it, you are at the whim of the person
>> who has it as to whether they will give it to you.
>>
> 
> True.  That's why you'll give it to me and like it.  

No I wont give it to you. I dont like you or your attitude.

Now give me the
> information I seek.

Why? What good have yoo ever done me?

   If you don't somebody smarter will.

Somebody smarter already has time and again, but you were too stupid to 
listen.

Ever hear about the little boy who cried 'wolf'?


  So STFU.

Ray Lopez 'how to win friends, and influence people' chapter one.

> 
>> Now the last time I paid serious taxes it was about a million bucks:
>> made off the sweat of my brow and the work of a lot of IT dudes who made
>> a lot less than that. I respect the fact that they helped me make that
>> so I didn't have to work again.
> 
> Wow.  Impressive if true.  But it sounds like you're guilty.  Your
> guilty conscience at exploting IT dudes to make money is showing and
> telling.

I exploited no one. I have no guilt.

> 
>> You are an insignificant arrogant little prick, and when your money runs
>> out, no one will want to help you make any more. And you had better
>> learn how to grovel.
> 
> I grovel now, to make money.  It's an art form.

Well you are pretty crap at it, so you cant be making nearly as much as 
you like to make out.

> 
>> No, it doesn't. Your attitude has increased the 1% to 99%, that's all.
> 
> Who cares?  The supply of good samaritans who want to help in Usenet,
> regardless of the abuse they receive, is endless. 

I wouldn't bet on it: you have by your own admission, exhausted nearly 
all of the ones available here.


  It's a seller's
> market for trolls, as you have shown by replying to my posts
> (admittedly with very little substance, so I think I'm being taken by
> a fellow troll).

So you admit you are a troll?
Well I was having flame wars when you were in diapers. So I don't think 
there is much to be said about that.

I'm not always trolling..and certainly not without a reason. You just 
enjoy wanking, that's all. I like to help people up to a point: If they 
are just wasting time, its best to show them up quickly for what they 
are, as you have now admitted.

Then its easy for those who want to jape with you to jape, and those who 
were trying to help, to realize you never did actually want help,. just 
some amusement at somebody else's expense.


> 
>> For a man who obviusly Sooo..wealthy, you seem to worry a lot about
>> burning one CD and throwing it away.
> 
> Time = money.  I lost a CD (which are getting harder to find) and time
> too.
> 
Oh, I have enough money and plenty of time. Poor you. And CDs aren't 
hard to find.

>>  Well I suggest you
>> go out and but a Mac. Thats exactly the target market that Apple like.
>> Overpriced shrink wrapped crap for idiots with too much money snd no
>> sense whatsoever.
> 
> And how do they make their money?  The target market?  By exploiting
> IT dudes like you?

No. Like you.

> 
>>> Again, projection.  I'm not treating anybody like a pet.  I said
>>> please, is that not enough?
>> No, it isn't.
> 
> Well you're a mean spirited clown, an evil clown.

That's pretty rich. Do you honestly think I care? I stated the literal 
truth.

'Please' is not enough, you little squirt: at some time in your life you 
will come to a situation where some mean spirited hard heated bastard 
will demand payment in something a little more substantial than pretty 
words. I am just giving you a taster.

> 
>>>>   .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
>>> I love it.  In Linux, it's a badge of honor I suppose to be a
>>> registered user (who do you register with, Linus himself, or his
>>> mother?), since there's so few of them.  A 'high' number is 85000, so
>>> you must be a newbie Jean-David Beyer.
>> It doesn't take any intelligence to sneer. You haven't realised the
>> first basic principle: Linux is not about money or market penetration,
>> or commercial success. Its about a decent little operating system for
>> those who understand what it is, and why it can work well for them.
> 
> Decent Little OS sounds indecent.  Hobbyware c rap.

Now now, wash your mouth out with soap. I remember when Microsoft was 
hobbyware crap, and Apple was the same: professionals used  mainframes 
or minis, running various things, among them Unix, which performed less 
well then than Linux does today.


I bet you couldn't hook 32 terminals up to Vista, and run a 50 man 
business off it, for less than $30 per head per annuum, like I have seen 
SCO unix do. And which Linux still cAN do.

The cost of a Microsoft desktop in the city of London is estimated at 
$5600 per annum, to keep the same sort of uptime as that 386 box used to 
have.



> 
>> You don't even have that basic understanding, so its never going to work
>> for you - you simply are not prepared to make the mental effort to get
>> to grips with it.
>>
> 
> Well my IQ is over 140 and I was a millionaire by age 30.  Seems I'm
> doing something right.

Well mine was allegedly over 160 last time it was tested..and as for the 
cash, I really do not believe it, unless your daddy was a multi 
billionaire and gave it to you. No one with that sort of money is going 
to waste their time trolling here, or trying to install anything on 5 
year old plus kit..they would - if they had any sense of decency, buy 
their friend a mac and have done with it.

You are a sad little teenager, with no money at all, and an attitude 
problem that someone is going to beat out of you sooner or later.


> 
> Goodbye clown...
> 
And its silly to talk to yourself.
> RL

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> True.  That's why you'll give it to me and like it.  Now give me the
>> information I seek.  If you don't somebody smarter will.  So STFU.
> 
> We already gave you the information, but you REFUSE to read the
> documentation and too LAZY to boot up on a LiveCD of the distro to
> even SEE if it's a problem.
> 
Hes admitted hes trolling. RIP Ray Lopez.

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 3:10 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> As far as being a newbie, that is a relative term. I have been using the
>> UNIX Operating System since the early 1970s and Linux since about mid 1998
>> with 2.0.32 kernel, so I am a newbie compared with those users of Linux who
>> used the 0.95 kernel, but if you consider that Linux and UNIX to be fairly
>> equivalent, then I have been at this over 30 years -- starting with a very
>> early UNIX kernel that was a bunch of assembler files for the PDP-11, and my
>> machine was a DEC PDP-11/45 with a memory management unit -- which is a long
>> time in the software business. I have been paid to write computer program
>> since the early 1960s, before there was a UNIX Operating System, and
>> certainly before there was a Microsoft. I probably wrote my first program
>> before Bill Gates learned to talk.
> 
> Shiite, I'm sorry then.  I did not realize that you were a pioneer in
> C. Sci.--I thought you were an ordinary chump like us.  Now I
> understand why you love Linux--it's closer to the machine, for egghead
> types like you.  Like I've said in another post, for very
> sophisticated users like you, Linux is good.  But you have to be a
> Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fully.  For most of us (and I code in C,
> C++, C#, VB, and have built many a system from scratch, and had NT and
> RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10 years ago), Linux has too steep of a
> learning curve.
> 

Well that shows how little you know about it.
Or that you are lying. Its a lot easier than c++ or C, cos I have done that.

VB is a toy language as well, suitable only for people who cant write in 
anything better.


> RL

Baho Utot wrote:
> raylopez99 wrote:
> 
> [putolin]
> 
>> sophisticated users like you, Linux is good.  But you have to be a
>> Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fully.  For most of us (and I code in C,
>> C++, C#, VB, and have built many a system from scratch, and had NT and
>> RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10 years ago), Linux has too steep of a
>> learning curve.
> 
> Assembling purchased parts in _NOT_ building a system from scratch.  At
> least that is not my definition.  I have built up systems from assembling
> parts and compiling the OS from scratch as well as writing all the scripts
> to make it boot. And I still would not call that building a system from
> scratch.
> 
I've even written an operating system, C library and Forth interpreter 
for a 8086 board. And made DOS multitask with a proper pre-emptive real 
time kernel.

And written code for embedded microprocessors.

But apparently that makes me a clown..

I think Ray has a deep penis envy problem.

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> Is that you?  My god you're trivial.  You're diminishing daily.  Soon
>> you will, like the Cheshire cat, simply disappear.
> 
> 
> Tell me - do you actually DO ANYTHING other than insult people?  I
> answered your question, and gave you a distro, and you'd rather spend
> your time trolling than actually something productive like trying a LiveCD.
Hes a troll. Thats all there is to it. He likes to see other people 
rushing around doing things for him, because in real life he is too 
small to be noticed by the girls or something. Its up to you whether you 
indulge his ego or treat him like the little prick he really is.

My guess is his a teenager on vacation, and is simply bored, because he 
has no friends to play with.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I've even written an operating system

So did Rex Ballard.  But don't fret - his wouldn't actually do anything, 
either.



> VB is a toy language as well, suitable only for people who cant write in 
> anything better.

There isn't anything better for certain jobs.



> I think Ray has a deep penis envy problem.

I think you're just kind of broke and bitter.  Linux does that to you - 
that's why almost all "advocates" who develop software for a living do it on 
and with Windows.

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> notbob, I would have believed you, but I think you're just yanking my
>> chain.  If I spend an hour downloading Slackware 12.1, and it fails,
> 
> And how did it fail, troll?
> 
It failed to display pikkies of naked boys on startup, obviously.

raylopez99 wrote:
  Finally, the implication is that
> LInux is a life-long learning endeavor.  

It would be, for you.

Either because your life will be cut short or because it will take that 
long to learn to read a technical article and understand it. Or both..


> Given that much time, I'll
> learn to code better, or to play chess better, or be a better person,

That would be a good idea...

> rather than learning how to mount a disk drive (in the Windows world,
> you just stick the floppy into the slot and it works--in Linux you
> have to 'mount' and 'dismount' and from a LiveCD of Ubuntu last year,
> that's about the point where the program crashed and I had to do a
> reboot).
> 
Mmm. My windows setup does that all by itself. I don't even have to 
stick a floppy in.

Of course you COU put up with eiher dog slow disk writes, or cirreupt 
data on te disk, and have the disk juts pop out on you when you pressed 
teh buttn..just like windws.

But someone smarter than you (any one of tens of billions of people) 
decided a little complexity was worth it for the 20-100 times better 
write performance that disk caching would give you.



> RL

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 3:10 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> As far as being a newbie, that is a relative term. I have been using
>> the UNIX Operating System since the early 1970s and Linux since about
>> mid 1998 with 2.0.32 kernel, so I am a newbie compared with those users
>> of Linux who used the 0.95 kernel, but if you consider that Linux and
>> UNIX to be fairly equivalent, then I have been at this over 30 years --
>> starting with a very early UNIX kernel that was a bunch of assembler
>> files for the PDP-11, and my machine was a DEC PDP-11/45 with a memory
>> management unit -- which is a long time in the software business. I
>> have been paid to write computer program since the early 1960s, before
>> there was a UNIX Operating System, and certainly before there was a
>> Microsoft. I probably wrote my first program before Bill Gates learned
>> to talk.
> 
> Shiite, I'm sorry then.  I did not realize that you were a pioneer in C.
> Sci.--I thought you were an ordinary chump like us.  Now I understand why
> you love Linux--it's closer to the machine, for egghead types like you.

Actually, one of the main functions of an OS is to get further from the
machine. To get to a higher level of abstraction just so you can avoid the
nitty-gritty of the machine. I happen to hate the architecture of the PC in
general and the *86 processors in particular. But running Linux (or UNIX)
enables me to avoid that well over 99% of the time.

> Like I've said in another post, for very sophisticated users like you,
> Linux is good.  But you have to be a Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fully.
> 
I do not know about that. In any case, I do not have a Ph.D, but just a
humble B.S.

> For most of us (and I code in C, C++, C#, VB, and have built many a
> system from scratch, and had NT and RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10
> years ago), Linux has too steep of a learning curve.
> 
I think that depends on what OS you start with. That one is always the
easiest. So I would have to do with the Fortran Monitor System, BESYS7, and
SOS. After you learn a few machine architectures and a few operating
systems, it is fairly easy to switch from one to another without too much of
a learning curve. The only one whose learning curve was too much to bear was
Windows 2 and Windows 95. You could use them OK if you did not mind three
blue screens of death per week and programs crashing many times a day, and
..dll conflicts between some of the Microsoft provided applications. I could
not deal with that, so except for TurboTax, I gave up on Windows in mid 1998.

I have built digital systems from scratch (i.e., resistors, diodes,
transistors, small scale ICs, ...), and I assembled my main computer here
from, I would not say scratch, but I bought the box, power supply,
motherboard, memory modules, processors, hard drives, fans, and so on and
put it all together. A colleague and I designed a system to do real time
moving image processing in the early 1970s which was quite a challenge at
the time with machines whose memory had a 1.9 microsecond cycle time and we
had only 16384 words of memory. I wrote the operating system for it.

I have programmed in about a dozen assemblers for the IBM 704 and up series
of computers, their System/360 series, the General Electric 635 and 645,
some Control Data machines (I forgot which ones), Honeywell DDP-224, Western
Electric 32000 and 32100 series processors, CRISP processors, and I forget
what else. I have even written optimizers for the C and C++ compilers. I
have also programmed in various flavors of FORTRAN, Algol 60, PL/I, SNOBOL4,
BLODIB (and wrote a similar compiler for BLODI4) and I forget what else.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 20:20:01 up 18 days, 5:40, 4 users, load average: 4.06, 4.13, 4.16

Jean-David Beyer wrote:

> I think that depends on what OS you start with. That one is always the
> easiest. So I would have to do with the Fortran Monitor System, BESYS7, and
> SOS. After you learn a few machine architectures and a few operating
> systems, it is fairly easy to switch from one to another without too much of
> a learning curve. The only one whose learning curve was too much to bear was
> Windows 2 and Windows 95. You could use them OK if you did not mind three
> blue screens of death per week and programs crashing many times a day, and
> .dll conflicts between some of the Microsoft provided applications. I could
> not deal with that, so except for TurboTax, I gave up on Windows in mid 1998.
>
Sounds similar in some ways to some of my experiences. After getting my 
degree I programmed in Fortran and assembler on an HP 2116 minicomputer 
for the US Army. (I was drafted.) As I remember it, that wasn't a bad 
curve, but there was some help from HP. After my service there was a 
12-year gap before I purchased my own computer, an Atari 8-bit. That one 
was easy to learn, because information abounded for it, and user groups 
were helpful and friendly in those days. I loved coding in Atari Basic 
on that machine, and still would if it made any sense to do so. I went 
from there to an Atari ST, then Windows 98, 98SE, and finally, 
Mandrake/Mandriva Linux. Of them all, the only one I developed an active 
dislike for was Windows. I don't even use any tax programs. I'd rather 
do it by hand than with Windows. We diverge greatly from there. I've 
never so much as assembled my own computer, though I am planning on 
doing that next time I need one.

TJ

Harold Stevens wrote:

> In <pan.2008.07.12.22.12.50.165385@lappie3.invalid> Felmon:
> 
> [Snip...]
> 
>> not sure why posted to cola
> 
> It's not about modems, or anything tech. It's about trolling. Simple, no?
> 

You bet it's about trolling.

The liar "Raylopez99", has been pulling this in COLA for months.
Although COLA is _not_ a technical group. Many gave him answers, but he
simply ignores it. It's *nothing* but flamebait.

Please save your energy for someone who actually wants technical help
with GNU/Linux.

Cheers

-- 
|_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
|_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
|0|0|0| http://ubuntusteunpuntdaalhof.googlepages.com

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:39:02 -0400, TJ quoth:

> raylopez99 wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 3:10 am, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> As far as being a newbie, that is a relative term. I have been using
>>> the UNIX Operating System since the early 1970s and Linux since about
>>> mid 1998 with 2.0.32 kernel, so I am a newbie compared with those
>>> users of Linux who used the 0.95 kernel, but if you consider that
>>> Linux and UNIX to be fairly equivalent, then I have been at this over
>>> 30 years -- starting with a very early UNIX kernel that was a bunch of
>>> assembler files for the PDP-11, and my machine was a DEC PDP-11/45
>>> with a memory management unit -- which is a long time in the software
>>> business. I have been paid to write computer program since the early
>>> 1960s, before there was a UNIX Operating System, and certainly before
>>> there was a Microsoft. I probably wrote my first program before Bill
>>> Gates learned to talk.
>> 
>> Shiite, I'm sorry then.  I did not realize that you were a pioneer in
>> C. Sci.--I thought you were an ordinary chump like us.  Now I
>> understand why you love Linux--it's closer to the machine, for egghead
>> types like you.  Like I've said in another post, for very sophisticated
>> users like you, Linux is good.  But you have to be a Ph.D. or
>> equivalent to use it fully.  For most of us (and I code in C, C++, C#,
>> VB, and have built many a system from scratch, and had NT and RHAT 5
>> dual booted at one time 10 years ago), Linux has too steep of a
>> learning curve.
>> 
>> RL
> 
> Not so. I don't have a Ph.D - or anywhere near it's equivalent, and the
> learning curve wasn't beyond my capabilities. In fact, I found it easier
> to learn to use Linux than Windows. Do I use it "fully?" Nope, but I use
> it more than I was ever able to use Windows.
> 
> BTW, my highest educational achievement was a BSEE in 1971, and I
> haven't been current in that field for a very long time. My life led me
> in another direction, but I didn't forget how to learn things. It
> doesn't just happen. You gotta work at anything you learn, if you are to
> truly master it.
> 
> TJ

thanks. I think some of the other responses kind of lost the thread of
raylopez99's argument which was that you would practically _need_ to be a
proficient computer engineer or scientist in order to use Linux.

you have brought us back to the point: you can enjoy Linux without being a
computer professional. of course it always makes sense to talk
about figuring out ways of _improving_ it for non-professionals (of which
I am one).

there are a lot of barriers including its 'unfamiliarity' and people's
reluctance about learning new computer-related things. one of the
secretaries here is simply one of the sharpest individuals I know but
she seldom tries to explore the computer. consequently I am sometimes
surprised at what she doesn't know, often very useful things but she never
'clicked around' to have a look-see. this is using XP.

I am clipping off cola but I am reaching the conclusion people are right
that all of this is a trolling expedition. too bad. some of the technical
conversation was interesting.

Felmon

On 2008-07-13, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Maxwell Lol wrote:
>
>> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
>>> every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
>>> suggestion.
>>
>> Bullshit.
>>
>> You are too cheap to buy a new $400 PC.
>>
>> You are too cheap to hire a consultant who can solve your problem in 30 minutes.
>>
>> You are too cheap that you grip about the cost of burning a CD.
>>
>> My time is worth $200 an hour. But you can spend days on this problem
>> just to save a buck.
>>
> But I thought he said he was the "consultant", doing this install for
> someone else.
>
> I'm sure (but since there have been so many reiterations of the same
> question I'm not going to go back and look) that he also claimed to be
> capable, doing all kinds of things.

This is the third time the prick has done this in the last 2 years.

A fucking arsehole scum-sucking troll of the lowest order. It's purpose
is to waste your time and to sap your energy.

Ignore it.

-- 
Regards,

Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

On 2008-07-13, Maxwell Lol <nospam@com.invalid> wrote:
> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> YES YES YES.  This is exactly what I suspect.  linux is NOT easy to
>> install.  Ten years ago I dual booted RHAT 5.x with NT, and it took a
>> week.  I think it's the same now.
>
> 10 years is about 3 generations in software time.
> As I said - you can be running DSL in 5 minutes.
> It has dialup modem support.
> Yet you never even tried it.
>

This also is a troll lie. I've installed Redhat 5.0 and it took around
an hour on an old Pentium 1 with fuck all memory.... and around 5 gig of
HD.



-- 
Regards,

Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> wrote:
> On 2008-07-13, Maxwell Lol <nospam@com.invalid> wrote:
>> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> YES YES YES.  This is exactly what I suspect.  linux is NOT easy to
>>> install.  Ten years ago I dual booted RHAT 5.x with NT, and it took a
>>> week.  I think it's the same now.
>>
>> 10 years is about 3 generations in software time.
>> As I said - you can be running DSL in 5 minutes.
>> It has dialup modem support.
>> Yet you never even tried it.
>>
> 
> This also is a troll lie. I've installed Redhat 5.0 and it took around
> an hour on an old Pentium 1 with fuck all memory.... and around 5 gig of
> HD.

Luxury. My first was SuSE 5.2 on a 486 with 16meg of RAM and a 400meg hard
drive.

Had to do a little chopping and changing to do everything I wanted,
uninstall staroffice to install something else and vice versa, But that only
took a minute or two.
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co.uk   | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste!         |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   |  I can SMELL!!!  KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and    |
|            in            |  get out the puncture repair kit!"              |
|     Computer Science     |     Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf              |

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:02:11 +0000, Gregory Shearman wrote:

> On 2008-07-13, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>
>>> raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Ah, so I have to suck up to IT dudes who make less than I pay in taxes
>>>> every year.  That's now how I run my business Jean, but thanks for the
>>>> suggestion.
>>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>>
>>> You are too cheap to buy a new $400 PC.
>>>
>>> You are too cheap to hire a consultant who can solve your problem in 30
>>> minutes.
>>>
>>> You are too cheap that you grip about the cost of burning a CD.
>>>
>>> My time is worth $200 an hour. But you can spend days on this problem
>>> just to save a buck.
>>>
>> But I thought he said he was the "consultant", doing this install for
>> someone else.
>>
>> I'm sure (but since there have been so many reiterations of the same
>> question I'm not going to go back and look) that he also claimed to be
>> capable, doing all kinds of things.
> 
> This is the third time the prick has done this in the last 2 years.
> 
> A fucking arsehole scum-sucking troll of the lowest order. It's purpose is
> to waste your time and to sap your energy.
> 
> Ignore it.

In this thread in comp.os.linux.misc, Dopez99 has practically admitted
it's a troll:

<quote>
so I think I'm being taken by a fellow troll.
<unquote>

In the same thread, it also admits it's using a *pirated* version of
Vista:

<quote>
I have to say I had huge problems installing a SATA drive on an apparent
pirate version of Vista--finally got it to work, but it was a three day
affair.
<unquote>

Thread: Please, for the SIXTH time, can somebody recommend a Linux distro for an old PC?
comp.os.linux.misc - July 13th & 14th 2008.

It also makes spurious claims such as, it was a millionaire at 30 &
has an IQ of 140.
Yet it can't burn an ISO properly, because (it says) it was a 700+ MB
Mandriva ISO download & it was sure it wouldn't fit on a cd. The troll
said it used Nero which proved him right. Err...what if the clown was
only using a 650MB cd, well that's even *if* he'd downloaded the ISO in
the *first* place?  
Then it started bitching about the cost of CDs, which are *cheap*......but
didn't it claim to be a millionaire?

-- 
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?

On Jul 13, 2:39=A0pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Second, when I stick a floppy into the slot (Gawd, you still use
> FLOPPIES?) with Mandriva Linux, it just works. Mounts all by itself.
> It's the same way with the usb cable for one of my digital cameras, and
> when I stick a memory card into the card reader for the other one. Same
> thing for my external hard drive. No drivers to install, no waiting for
> a "new hardware" wizard - they just work, first time and every time.
> With Mandriva, my ethernet connection was detected and configured
> automatically right from the start, unlike Windows, where I had to
> download updated drivers from the motherboard manufacturer before I
> could use it. Linux just worked. I haven't had Linux do anything BUT
> "just work" in the last four years. And in those four years I haven't
> had to wait while my antivirus program updates its database before I can
> start work for the day. Not once. Never had to remove spyware, either. I
> didn't have to throw out a perfectly good computer because somebody in
> Redmond decided for me that I should buy a newer one to be able to use
> their new whiz-bang eye candy. I sleep well at night, secure in the
> knowledge that some zombifier won't take over my computer for
> God-know-what purpose.

So you must be one of the few that's had such a pleasant experience.
No doubt you're using very modern hardware, unlike the target machine,
and perhaps you just lucked out.

>
> And I've used all the time I've saved (not to mention piles of cash) by
> not using Windows to do a better job at my profession, spend some
> quality time with my family, and go fishing now and then.
>
> Tell you what, Lopez... You use what you want to use, and I'll leave you
> alone. I'll use what I want to use and ignore your existence. Fair enough=
?
>
> TJ

Yes, very fair.  Goodbye TJ.

RL

On Jul 13, 4:50=A0pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> raylopez99 wrote:

> >> So you are =A0little rich boy with a toy business who can't spell.
>
> > Where is my spelling misteak, bozo?
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0^^^^^^^^ right there.

Bait, hook, sucker fish (you).

> > No. And learn to use the backspace key you solesistic clown.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ^^^^^^^^^^ there's another
> one!
>

It's American english.

>
> So you admit you are a troll?
> Well I was having flame wars when you were in diapers. So I don't think
> there is much to be said about that.
>

So you admit to being a troll?  Noted.

> I'm not always trolling..and certainly not without a reason. You just
> enjoy wanking, that's all. I like to help people up to a point: If they
> are just wasting time, its best to show them up quickly for what they
> are, as you have now admitted.
>
> Then its easy for those who want to jape with you to jape, and those who
> were trying to help, to realize you never did actually want help,. just
> some amusement at somebody else's expense.
>

So you admit I'm amusing?  Thanks.  From one fellow troll to another.

>
> >> For a man who obviusly Sooo..wealthy, you seem to worry a lot about
> >> burning one CD and throwing it away.
>
> > Time =3D money. =A0I lost a CD (which are getting harder to find) and t=
ime
> > too.
>
> Oh, I have enough money and plenty of time. Poor you. And CDs aren't
> hard to find.
>

They are too, here where I live.  Not the city of London either. And
Linux won't do you much good here.  Or a computer for that matter.

> > Well you're a mean spirited clown, an evil clown.
>
> That's pretty rich. Do you honestly think I care? I stated the literal
> truth.
>

I know you don't care.  Because you made your ill-gotten gains off the
sweat of the brow of the working man, as an Marxist will tell you.
Around here, that would not be appreciated.  So please stay in the
City of London and don't come here unless it's for holiday and you're
willing to spend lots of your hard earned cash.  No, not lots.  All of
it.

>
> Now now, wash your mouth out with soap. I remember when Microsoft was
> hobbyware crap, and Apple was the same: professionals used =A0mainframes
> or minis, running various things, among them Unix, which performed less
> well then than Linux does today.
>

Yes, those were the days my friend, we'd thought they never end.  But
end they did.  And you're old.

> I bet you couldn't hook 32 terminals up to Vista, and run a 50 man
> business off it, for less than $30 per head per annuum, like I have seen
> SCO unix do. And which Linux still cAN do.
>

What?  You crazy or what?  I remember back in the early 1990s an IT
guy said you could do that with 386 machines and Windows 3.1.
Allowing for exaggeration, that's pretty impressive.  I'm sure you
meant something other than "Vista", right?  Surely a solecism on your
part, old man?

> The cost of a Microsoft desktop in the city of London is estimated at
> $5600 per annum, to keep the same sort of uptime as that 386 box used to
> have.

Says a white paper sponsored by the Linux community?  The business
community says otherwise--and they vote with their dollar$.

> > Well my IQ is over 140 and I was a millionaire by age 30. =A0Seems I'm
> > doing something right.
>
> Well mine was allegedly over 160 last time it was tested..

Retest it then.  I see signs of dementia.  And I'm a doctor.

>  and as for the
> cash, I really do not believe it, unless your daddy was a multi
> billionaire and gave it to you.

Good guess!

> No one with that sort of money is going
> to waste their time trolling here, or trying to install anything on 5
> year old plus kit..they would - if they had any sense of decency, buy
> their friend a mac and have done with it.

So you like Macs then.  Contradicts your earlier point about only
idiots buying Macs--unless you're also a trolling idiot.

>
> You are a sad little teenager, with no money at all, and an attitude
> problem that someone is going to beat out of you sooner or later.
>

Is that gonna be you old man?  First you have to catch me in your
wheelchair.

>
> > Goodbye clown...
>
> And its silly to talk to yourself.
>

Goodbye Ray.  Because we know that you and I are the same person,
don't we?  For the rest of you reading this thread, you just wasted a
few precious minutes of your life doing nothing.

RL

On Jul 13, 4:52=A0pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:

> Well that shows how little you know about it.
> Or that you are lying. Its a lot easier than c++ or C, cos I have done th=
at.
>
> VB is a toy language as well, suitable only for people who cant write in
> anything better.
>

Yeah, VB is a toy language, and that's why with .NET and CLI, Visual
Studio has evolved into a visual 'drag-and-drop' programming API, like
VB, and with C# replacing Java and being cross-platform, in theory you
should be able to write once in Windows and deploy everywhere, even on
a Linux machine.

Any other boneheaded statements you want to make, Natty Philosewer?

RL

On Jul 13, 4:55=A0pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:

>
> I think Ray has a deep penis envy problem.

No, that's what they do in those English boarding schools.  And that's
why you have such severe piles.

RL

On Jul 13, 5:02=A0pm, "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:

>
> I think you're just kind of broke and bitter. =A0Linux does that to you -
> that's why almost all "advocates" who develop software for a living do it=
 on
> and with Windows.

Right you are DFS.  These guys couldn't shoot themselves out of a
paper bag.

And in other news:  relearning Windows Forms after a short break from
the real world (I don't program for a living) and it's surprising how
easy it was to relearn it.  In a few days I was up to speed.  I will
learn LINQ soon, and relearn ASP.NET, to integrate with the dB and
ADO.NET programming I did last year.  And yes, Visual Basic was great
as a tool used in Access to build a professional looking database in
about a week--it was scary how easy it was (and I don't have much VB
programming experience at all--I have a C/C++/C# background).

Microsoft (MSFT), market cap:  234 billion. Red Hat (RHT): 3.7
billion, only 1.6% as big.  But, Red Hat, they have a good heart,
don't they?

RL

On Jul 13, 5:40=A0pm, Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Actually, one of the main functions of an OS is to get further from the
> machine. To get to a higher level of abstraction just so you can avoid th=
e
> nitty-gritty of the machine. I happen to hate the architecture of the PC =
in
> general and the *86 processors in particular. But running Linux (or UNIX)
> enables me to avoid that well over 99% of the time.

Backwards compatibility is why the *86 is what it is--near, far
pointers to give but one example, at least until Windows NT/98 rolled
around.

>
> > Like I've said in another post, for very sophisticated users like you,
> > Linux is good. =A0But you have to be a Ph.D. or equivalent to use it fu=
lly.
>
> I do not know about that. In any case, I do not have a Ph.D, but just a
> humble B.S.

Well that's still impressive, and I guess they didn't have as much
resume and degree inflation back in those days.

>
> > For most of us (and I code in C, C++, C#, VB, and have built many a
> > system from scratch, and had NT and RHAT 5 dual booted at one time 10
> > years ago), Linux has too steep of a learning curve.
>
> I think that depends on what OS you start with. That one is always the
> easiest. So I would have to do with the Fortran Monitor System, BESYS7, a=
nd
> SOS. After you learn a few machine architectures and a few operating
> systems, it is fairly easy to switch from one to another without too much=
 of
> a learning curve. The only one whose learning curve was too much to bear =
was
> Windows 2 and Windows 95. You could use them OK if you did not mind three
> blue screens of death per week and programs crashing many times a day, an=
d
> .dll conflicts between some of the Microsoft provided applications. I cou=
ld
> not deal with that, so except for TurboTax, I gave up on Windows in mid 1=
998.

You should have stuck around--Windows 98 was better, NT 4.0 better,
2000/XP (based on NT) better, and dare I say it, but if you have the
right powerful hardware, Vista could be the best in terms of features
and stability (they have a few bugs still, but they're working on
them).

>
> I have built digital systems from scratch (i.e., resistors, diodes,
> transistors, small scale ICs, ...), and I assembled my main computer here
> from, I would not say scratch, but I bought the box, power supply,
> motherboard, memory modules, processors, hard drives, fans, and so on and
> put it all together. A colleague and I designed a system to do real time
> moving image processing in the early 1970s which was quite a challenge at
> the time with machines whose memory had a 1.9 microsecond cycle time and =
we
> had only 16384 words of memory. I wrote the operating system for it.

Wow.  Impressive.  I've written a program in assembly language once,
and designed some combinational and state machine circuits for fun.

>
> I have programmed in about a dozen assemblers for the IBM 704 and up seri=
es
> of computers, their System/360 series, the General Electric 635 and 645,
> some Control Data machines (I forgot which ones), Honeywell DDP-224, West=
ern
> Electric 32000 and 32100 series processors, CRISP processors, and I forge=
t
> what else. I have even written optimizers for the C and C++ compilers. I
> have also programmed in various flavors of FORTRAN, Algol 60, PL/I, SNOBO=
L4,
> BLODIB (and wrote a similar compiler for BLODI4) and I forget what else.

Impressive.  I hope you made money doing so, at least as much money as
the evil clown in this thread claims he made.

Good luck with Linux.  Seems like you are what I consider the
archetypal Linux user--a very smart person who is steeped in
electronics and love to tinker for the sake of tinkering.  For you,
Linux is perfect and I commend you.  For the rest of us, I think we'll
stick with Windows or Mac OS.

RL

On Jul 13, 6:16=A0pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> Sounds similar in some ways to some of my experiences. After getting my
> degree I programmed in Fortran and assembler on an HP 2116 minicomputer
> for the US Army. (I was drafted.) As I remember it, that wasn't a bad
> curve, but there was some help from HP. After my service there was a
> 12-year gap before I purchased my own computer, an Atari 8-bit. That one
> was easy to learn, because information abounded for it, and user groups
> were helpful and friendly in those days. I loved coding in Atari Basic
> on that machine, and still would if it made any sense to do so. I went
> from there to an Atari ST, then Windows 98, 98SE, and finally,
> Mandrake/Mandriva Linux. Of them all, the only one I developed an active
> dislike for was Windows. I don't even use any tax programs. I'd rather
> do it by hand than with Windows. We diverge greatly from there. I've
> never so much as assembled my own computer, though I am planning on
> doing that next time I need one.
>
> TJ


Thanks TJ for sharing that.  Again, it reinforces my point that Linux
users should properly be hobbyists who are well acquainted with PCs
and electronics--for them, Linux works and is fine.

RL

On Jul 14, 2:02=A0am, Gregory Shearman <ZekeGreg...@netscape.net> wrote:

> This is the third time the prick has done this in the last 2 years.
>
> A fucking arsehole scum-sucking troll of the lowest order. It's purpose
> is to waste your time and to sap your energy.
>
> Ignore it.
>

Why don't you take your own advice then, Genpoo?  Whose stopping you?
Obsessive-Compulsive are we?  20 mg Prozac will cure that.

RL

On Jul 14, 2:36=A0am, Andrew Halliwell <spi...@ponder.sky.com> wrote:

> Luxury. My first was SuSE 5.2 on a 486 with 16meg of RAM and a 400meg har=
d
> drive.
>
> Had to do a little chopping and changing to do everything I wanted,
> uninstall staroffice to install something else and vice versa, But that o=
nly
> took a minute or two.


Lies.  Why do UK citizens make such good liars?  It's like they train
for lying in the City of London.  Nothing takes "a minute or two".
You replying to this post takes longer than that.

Tell us how long it really took--in days or weeks.

RL

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 4:50 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
>>
> Says a white paper sponsored by the Linux community?  The business
> community says otherwise--and they vote with their dollar$.
> 

No, says the head of IT in a london bank.

>>> Well my IQ is over 140 and I was a millionaire by age 30.  Seems I'm
>>> doing something right.
>> Well mine was allegedly over 160 last time it was tested..
> 
> Retest it then.  I see signs of dementia.  And I'm a doctor.
> 

Oh dear oh dear. A liar possibly, a doctor not.


>>  and as for the
>> cash, I really do not believe it, unless your daddy was a multi
>> billionaire and gave it to you.
> 
> Good guess!
> 
>> No one with that sort of money is going
>> to waste their time trolling here, or trying to install anything on 5
>> year old plus kit..they would - if they had any sense of decency, buy
>> their friend a mac and have done with it.
> 
> So you like Macs then.  Contradicts your earlier point about only
> idiots buying Macs--unless you're also a trolling idiot.

No I don't like macs. Although I have one here. I got it free.
And got it working.

But they are totally suitable for little rich kids who want to know 
nothing about how computers work, and yet feel flattered by their 
fashion accessory.


> 
>> You are a sad little teenager, with no money at all, and an attitude
>> problem that someone is going to beat out of you sooner or later.
>>
> 
> Is that gonna be you old man?  First you have to catch me in your
> wheelchair.

NO, its not 'gonna be me': that wasn't a threat, it was a scientific 
prediction.

> 
>>> Goodbye clown...
>> And its silly to talk to yourself.
>>
> 
> Goodbye Ray.  Because we know that you and I are the same person,
> don't we?  For the rest of you reading this thread, you just wasted a
> few precious minutes of your life doing nothing.
> 

well that's what you want to do, waste time, yours and others.

> RL

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 4:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> 
>> Well that shows how little you know about it.
>> Or that you are lying. Its a lot easier than c++ or C, cos I have done that.
>>
>> VB is a toy language as well, suitable only for people who cant write in
>> anything better.
>>
> 
> Yeah, VB is a toy language, and that's why with .NET and CLI, Visual
> Studio has evolved into a visual 'drag-and-drop' programming API, like
> VB, and with C# replacing Java and being cross-platform, in theory you
> should be able to write once in Windows and deploy everywhere, even on
> a Linux machine.

I'm glad you agree wih me.


> 
> Any other boneheaded statements you want to make, Natty Philosewer?

your lack of spelling is showing again.

> 
> RL
> 

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 6:16 pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Sounds similar in some ways to some of my experiences. After getting my
>> degree I programmed in Fortran and assembler on an HP 2116 minicomputer
>> for the US Army. (I was drafted.) As I remember it, that wasn't a bad
>> curve, but there was some help from HP. After my service there was a
>> 12-year gap before I purchased my own computer, an Atari 8-bit. That one
>> was easy to learn, because information abounded for it, and user groups
>> were helpful and friendly in those days. I loved coding in Atari Basic
>> on that machine, and still would if it made any sense to do so. I went
>> from there to an Atari ST, then Windows 98, 98SE, and finally,
>> Mandrake/Mandriva Linux. Of them all, the only one I developed an active
>> dislike for was Windows. I don't even use any tax programs. I'd rather
>> do it by hand than with Windows. We diverge greatly from there. I've
>> never so much as assembled my own computer, though I am planning on
>> doing that next time I need one.
>>
>> TJ
> 
> 
> Thanks TJ for sharing that.  Again, it reinforces my point that Linux
> users should properly be hobbyists who are well acquainted with PCs
> and electronics--for them, Linux works and is fine.
> 

Hobbyists or professionals.

As you say consumer dummies should stick to windows or Macs.

go suck on a vista.


> RL

raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 2:36�am, Andrew Halliwell <spi...@ponder.sky.com> wrote:
> 
>> Luxury. My first was SuSE 5.2 on a 486 with 16meg of RAM and a 400meg hard
>> drive.
>>
>> Had to do a little chopping and changing to do everything I wanted,
>> uninstall staroffice to install something else and vice versa, But that only
>> took a minute or two.
> 
> 
> Lies.  Why do UK citizens make such good liars?  

Lies? HAH!
That's the truth, idiot. With careful package selection, even 10 years
later, you could EASILY fit ANY distribution onto a 1 gig drive.


It's like they train
> for lying in the City of London.  Nothing takes "a minute or two".

Replacing one package for another does.
That's what package managers are for. And YaST is (or at least, back then,
WAS) one of the best. 
-- 
|   spike1@freenet.co.uk   |   Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a    |
|                          | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|   Andrew Halliwell BSc   | operating system originally  coded for a 4 bit |
|            in            |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|     Computer Science     |        can't stand 1 bit of competition.       |

raylopez99 wrote:
> 
> Thanks TJ for sharing that.  Again, it reinforces my point that Linux
> users should properly be hobbyists who are well acquainted with PCs
> and electronics--for them, Linux works and is fine.
> 
> RL

I thought you said you had to have a Ph.D. to use Linux, and now you say
they should be hobbyists well acquainted with PCs and electronics.

I cannot imagine that a Ph.D. would be required to write code for a
computer, and many users never write code anyway. If you are programming
something very new in a new field, a Ph.D. in the relevant subject area
might be helpful, but chances are it would not be in Computer Science, but
mathematics, chemistry, physics, psychology, or whatever. The only time a
degree in computer science would be helpful would be if you were designing
something new in the compiler or operating system area.

While I used to design electronics, it is not necessary to use a computer. A
little knowledge of electronics -- at the technician level -- might be
helpful if you put your own box together or if you need to do some simple
maintenance or upgrading.

And the need for the Ph.D. or the electronics knowledge would be the same
irrespective of the OS one is using.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
 ^^-^^ 07:25:01 up 19 days, 16:45, 4 users, load average: 4.25, 4.18, 4.14

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:17:06 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 13, 6:16 pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds similar in some ways to some of my experiences. After getting my
>> degree I programmed in Fortran and assembler on an HP 2116 minicomputer
>> for the US Army. (I was drafted.) As I remember it, that wasn't a bad
>> curve, but there was some help from HP. After my service there was a
>> 12-year gap before I purchased my own computer, an Atari 8-bit. That
>> one was easy to learn, because information abounded for it, and user
>> groups were helpful and friendly in those days. I loved coding in Atari
>> Basic on that machine, and still would if it made any sense to do so. I
>> went from there to an Atari ST, then Windows 98, 98SE, and finally,
>> Mandrake/Mandriva Linux. Of them all, the only one I developed an
>> active dislike for was Windows. I don't even use any tax programs. I'd
>> rather do it by hand than with Windows. We diverge greatly from there.
>> I've never so much as assembled my own computer, though I am planning
>> on doing that next time I need one.
>>
>> TJ
> 
> 
> Thanks TJ for sharing that.  Again, it reinforces my point that Linux
> users should properly be hobbyists who are well acquainted with PCs and
> electronics--for them, Linux works and is fine.
> 
> RL


You mean like all those house wives in Taiwan (IIRC) though bought EEEs 
instead of Windows machines?


-- 
Rick

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:07:22 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

> On Jul 13, 5:02 pm, "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I think you're just kind of broke and bitter.  Linux does that to you -
>> that's why almost all "advocates" who develop software for a living do
>> it on and with Windows.
> 
> Right you are DFS.  These guys couldn't shoot themselves out of a paper
> bag.
> 
> And in other news:  relearning Windows Forms after a short break from
> the real world (I don't program for a living) and it's surprising how
> easy it was to relearn it.  In a few days I was up to speed.  I will
> learn LINQ soon, and relearn ASP.NET, to integrate with the dB and
> ADO.NET programming I did last year.  And yes, Visual Basic was great as
> a tool used in Access to build a professional looking database in about
> a week--it was scary how easy it was (and I don't have much VB
> programming experience at all--I have a C/C++/C# background).
> 
> Microsoft (MSFT), market cap:  234 billion. Red Hat (RHT): 3.7 billion,
> only 1.6% as big.  But, Red Hat, they have a good heart, don't they?
> 
> RL


.... and yest Red Hat is kicking Microsoft's butt in the Enterprise 
market. Enterprise.. you know, where the software has to work.
-- 
Rick

raylopez99 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 2:39 pm, TJ <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Second, when I stick a floppy into the slot (Gawd, you still use
>> FLOPPIES?) with Mandriva Linux, it just works. Mounts all by itself.
>> It's the same way with the usb cable for one of my digital cameras, and
>> when I stick a memory card into the card reader for the other one. Same
>> thing for my external hard drive. No drivers to install, no waiting for
>> a "new hardware" wizard - they just work, first time and every time.
>> With Mandriva, my ethernet connection was detected and configured
>> automatically right from the start, unlike Windows, where I had to
>> download updated drivers from the motherboard manufacturer before I
>> could use it. Linux just worked. I haven't had Linux do anything BUT
>> "just work" in the last four years. And in those four years I haven't
>> had to wait while my antivirus program updates its database before I can
>> start work for the day. Not once. Never had to remove spyware, either. I
>> didn't have to throw out a perfectly good computer because somebody in
>> Redmond decided for me that I should buy a newer one to be able to use
>> their new whiz-bang eye candy. I sleep well at night, secure in the
>> knowledge that some zombifier won't take over my computer for
>> God-know-what purpose.
> 
> So you must be one of the few that's had such a pleasant experience.
> No doubt you're using very modern hardware, unlike the target machine,
> and perhaps you just lucked out.
> 
One more time I find myself foolishly sucked in, just so I can clarify a 
distortion. My "very modern hardware:"

Processor: AMD Athlon XP 1900+
Motherboard: Biostar M7VIG Pro-D
RAM: 512 MB PC2100 DDR
Hard Drives: 1 40 GB Maxtor, 1 80 GB Western Digital, 1 160GB external 
usb Western Digital
Keyboard: Kensington wireless
Mouse: Logitech wireless
DVD burner: LG 18x Super-Multi

The computer, with 40Gb drive, 256M RAM, and corded keyboard and mouse, 
was purchased in October 2003, from a small, now-defunct company. While 
newer than the fictitious machine used to suck me into this thread, it's 
hardly "very modern."

Oh, and I forgot to mention... When I purchased and installed my DVD 
burner a year ago, Linux accepted it without all the folderol that 
Windows seems to find necessary to accept new hardware. It just noticed 
it was there, and used it, just like everything else.

I was on a brief pleasure trip a few days ago, and used a computer 
provided by the motel for guest use to send an email. The computer was 
using XP, and I was forced to use IE to send the email. Never have I 
used anything worse. My 1990-vintage Atari ST was faster and easier. 
What a piece of crap.

TJ

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>raylopez99 wrote:

*plonk*

Jean-David Beyer wrote:

>raylopez99 wrote:

*plonk*

Maxwell Lol wrote:

>raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:

*plonk*

TJ wrote:

>raylopez99 wrote:

*plonk*

Andrew Halliwell wrote:

>Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> wrote:
>> 
>> This also is a troll lie. I've installed Redhat 5.0 and it took around
>> an hour on an old Pentium 1 with fuck all memory.... and around 5 gig of
>> HD.
>
>Luxury. My first was SuSE 5.2 on a 486 with 16meg of RAM and a 400meg hard
>drive.
>
>Had to do a little chopping and changing to do everything I wanted,
>uninstall staroffice to install something else and vice versa, But that only
>took a minute or two.

Yeah?  Mine was Slack 0.99 on a 12MHz 386SX w/4 Meg RAM and dual
floppies.   8)

chrisv, ye muddle-mettled distrustful recreant, that is the foul fiend
Flibbertigibbet, ye bitched:

> TJ wrote:
>
>>raylopez99 wrote:
>
> *plonk*


*plonk* 

chrisv, ye boozy sly and constant knave, thy days are foul and thy drink
dangerous, ye yielded:

> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>
>>raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> *plonk*


*plonk* 

chrisv, ye loggerheaded scurvy politician, despised substance of
divinest show, ye indicted:

> Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>>raylopez99 wrote:
>
> *plonk*


*plonk* 

chrisv, ye beslubbering recreant and most degenerate traitor, a bawd, a
broker, that all changing word, ye lectured:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>raylopez99 wrote:
>
> *plonk*


*plonk* 

chrisv, ye venomed new tuners of accent, o most insatiate and luxurious
woman, ye ministered:

> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>
>>raylopez99 <raylopez99@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> *plonk*


*plonk* 

-- 
alt.usenet.kooks
"We are arrant knaves all, believe none of us."
Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1 [129]

Hammer of Thor: February 2007. Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook,
Line & Sinker: September 2005, April 2006, January 2007.
Official Member: Cabal Obsidian Order COOSN-124-07-06660
Official Overseer of Kooks & Trolls in 24hoursupport.helpdesk

Member of:
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   Cog in the AUK Hate Machine List

Find me on Google Maps: 24�39'47.13"S, 134�4'20.18"E

Join me for dinner. I'm cooking adulterated hagfish tumor and quagga
heart compote con detestable Persian cat artery with apple compote con
nasty bullhead tumor and turkey buzzard bowels conserve, arranged in a
randomly twitching cup chock full of decayed remnants of rat brain and
particles of pistachio nut in dog pee, a side of lymphoma and a gallon
of spinach juice.

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> writes:

> Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>>raylopez99 wrote:
>
> *plonk*

If you plonked him, you only have to do it once.

Will there be a "For the last time..."