Hi;

I never bought a printer.

I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10

I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
does double sided printing, well.

About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?

Anyone care to make a recommendation?

Thanks in advance either way

Steve

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800, Steve wrote:

> Hi;
> 
> I never bought a printer.
> 
> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
> 
> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> does double sided printing, well.
> 
> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
> 
> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
> 
> Thanks in advance either way
> 
> Steve

HP All in Ones are the best supported printers. I'm using an OfficeJet Pro 
which is one of the pricier models but all HPs use the same driver. 
Printing, multiple page scanning (if the device you have has a feeder) all 
work. In addition to being supported from Printer administrator, the HPs 
with an Ethernet interface are also accessible from the browser, that's 
how you can check ink levels.

At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Hi;
> 
> I never bought a printer.
> 
> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
> 
> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> does double sided printing, well.
> 
> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
> 
> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
> 
> Thanks in advance either way
> 
> Steve

1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA! (Check
Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)

2) Brother makes some great *laser* printers, that speak PostScript
(they call it BrotherScript or BScript or some such nonsense).  Amazon
has a color all-in-one laser printer from Brother for $550.00.  It does
duplexing (double sided printing).

>                                                                                                  

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                                              

Robert Heller wrote:

> At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi;
>> 
>> I never bought a printer.
>> 
>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>> 
>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> does double sided printing, well.
>> 
>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> 
>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance either way
>> 
>> Steve
> 
> 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
> them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA! (Check
> Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)

Good thing that you are not painting with a broad brush...

BTW, I have used HP printers in linux since more than 10 years.
They worked fine

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:15:33 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>> At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi;
>>> 
>>> I never bought a printer.
>>> 
>>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>>> 
>>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>>> does double sided printing, well.
>>> 
>>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>>> 
>>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance either way
>>> 
>>> Steve
>> 
>> 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
>> them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA!
>> (Check Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)
> 
> Good thing that you are not painting with a broad brush...
> 
> BTW, I have used HP printers in linux since more than 10 years. They
> worked fine

I've been using HPs for years also. They don't last forever but I've 
always gotten my monies worth out of them. They operate seamlessly with 
Linux so I recommend them. If you are worried about DOAs buy them from 
Costco, they have an easy return policy and their prices are just as good 
as Amazon's.

At 27 Dec 2011 17:05:09 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800, Steve wrote:
> 
> > Hi;
> > 
> > I never bought a printer.
> > 
> > I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
> > 
> > I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> > does double sided printing, well.
> > 
> > About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> > linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
> > 
> > Anyone care to make a recommendation?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance either way
> > 
> > Steve
> 
> HP All in Ones are the best supported printers. I'm using an OfficeJet Pro 

I beg to differ here.  Maybe if you are using a bleeding edge distro
like Ubuntu.  Not so much otherwise.

> which is one of the pricier models but all HPs use the same driver. 
> Printing, multiple page scanning (if the device you have has a feeder) all 
> work. In addition to being supported from Printer administrator, the HPs 
> with an Ethernet interface are also accessible from the browser, that's 
> how you can check ink levels.

HP uses the most expensive ink carts.  Did you know: 4/5 of the SRP of
an OfficeJet Pro 8500 is the cost of the consumables: ink carts and
print head carts.  *Cheap* plastic gears.  Flimsy chassis.  You really
don't want this machine.

> 
> 
>                                                                                                    

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                    

Robert Heller wrote:

> At 27 Dec 2011 17:05:09 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800, Steve wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi;
>> > 
>> > I never bought a printer.
>> > 
>> > I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>> > 
>> > I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> > does double sided printing, well.
>> > 
>> > About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> > linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> > 
>> > Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>> > 
>> > Thanks in advance either way
>> > 
>> > Steve
>> 
>> HP All in Ones are the best supported printers. I'm using an OfficeJet
>> Pro
> 
> I beg to differ here.  Maybe if you are using a bleeding edge distro
> like Ubuntu.  Not so much otherwise.

HP printers have been the best supported ones in all distros since quite 
some time. You may beg and differ as much as you like

>> which is one of the pricier models but all HPs use the same driver.
>> Printing, multiple page scanning (if the device you have has a feeder)
>> all work. In addition to being supported from Printer administrator, the
>> HPs with an Ethernet interface are also accessible from the browser,
>> that's how you can check ink levels.
> 
> HP uses the most expensive ink carts.  

Again that broad brush

> Did you know: 4/5 of the SRP of
> an OfficeJet Pro 8500 is the cost of the consumables: ink carts and
> print head carts.  *Cheap* plastic gears.  Flimsy chassis.  You really
> don't want this machine.
> 

What one really does not want is the bullshit artist version of "review" you 
present here

On 2011-12-27, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> At 27 Dec 2011 17:05:09 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800, Steve wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi;
>> > 
>> > I never bought a printer.
>> > 
>> > I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>> > 
>> > I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> > does double sided printing, well.

I believe double sided is rare on "all in ones" And most tend to be
inkjet which, unless yo u only print a few 10s of pages a month, get
pretty expensive replacing the ink cartridges. Decide what you really
want and need. Do you need a scanner? or do you have this vision of once
a year maybe scanning something? How many pages a month will you print? 
You need double sided why? All those things cost money. I would much
rather go for a laser printer than for an inkjet. If you are going to be
serious about scanning, get a decent scanner, not some marketer's
afterthought. And who faxes anymore?

>> > 
>> > About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> > linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> > 
>> > Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>> > 
>> > Thanks in advance either way
>> > 
>> > Steve
>> 
>> HP All in Ones are the best supported printers. I'm using an OfficeJet Pro 
>
> I beg to differ here.  Maybe if you are using a bleeding edge distro
> like Ubuntu.  Not so much otherwise.
>
>> which is one of the pricier models but all HPs use the same driver. 
>> Printing, multiple page scanning (if the device you have has a feeder) all 
>> work. In addition to being supported from Printer administrator, the HPs 
>> with an Ethernet interface are also accessible from the browser, that's 
>> how you can check ink levels.
>
> HP uses the most expensive ink carts.  Did you know: 4/5 of the SRP of
> an OfficeJet Pro 8500 is the cost of the consumables: ink carts and
> print head carts.  *Cheap* plastic gears.  Flimsy chassis.  You really
> don't want this machine.
>
>> 
>> 
>>                                                                                                    
>

At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:15:33 +0100 Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> 
> Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> > At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> Hi;
> >> 
> >> I never bought a printer.
> >> 
> >> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
> >> 
> >> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> >> does double sided printing, well.
> >> 
> >> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> >> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
> >> 
> >> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
> >> 
> >> Thanks in advance either way
> >> 
> >> Steve
> > 
> > 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
> > them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA! (Check
> > Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)
> 
> Good thing that you are not painting with a broad brush...
> 
> BTW, I have used HP printers in linux since more than 10 years.
> They worked fine

Older ones are great.  HP quality has been going down hill in recent
times.  The Wendell Free Library has a really old HP Laser printer (at
least 10 years old).  Works great with no problems -- it just wants a
<$100 toner cart each year. 

About 4 years ago the library bought a new HP OfficeJet Pro (7700 I
think).  It lasted 3 years and then died.  They bought an OfficeJet Pro
8500 just under a year ago and after 10 months or so, it died.  (And I
was never able to get it to work with xsane under CentOS 5.)  HP sent a
replacement that was DOA. We have one that works now, but I suspect that
once this one dies, the library will likely NOT buy another HP printer. 
Not worth the hassle (not to mention the high cost of ink carts).  HP's
customer service is somewhat poor as well.

> 
> 
>                                                                      

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                       

At 27 Dec 2011 18:32:37 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:15:33 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> 
> > Robert Heller wrote:
> > 
> >> At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Hi;
> >>> 
> >>> I never bought a printer.
> >>> 
> >>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
> >>> 
> >>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> >>> does double sided printing, well.
> >>> 
> >>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> >>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
> >>> 
> >>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks in advance either way
> >>> 
> >>> Steve
> >> 
> >> 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
> >> them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA!
> >> (Check Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)
> > 
> > Good thing that you are not painting with a broad brush...
> > 
> > BTW, I have used HP printers in linux since more than 10 years. They
> > worked fine
> 
> I've been using HPs for years also. They don't last forever but I've 
> always gotten my monies worth out of them. They operate seamlessly with 
> Linux so I recommend them. If you are worried about DOAs buy them from 
> Costco, they have an easy return policy and their prices are just as good 
> as Amazon's.

*I've* always found HP's *ink jet* printers a bitch to get working under
Linux.  It might be that I use a 'conservitive' distro -- CentOS -- that
does not always have the latest / bleeding edge driver software.
Brother's printers were always much easier to deal with (or at least the
only time I had to deal with a Brother ink jet all-in-one).  Of course,
*PostScript* printers (all makes) just plain work out-of-the-box,
PostScript being the 'native' printer language under Linux (and UNIX in
general). 

> 
>                       

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                             

Robert Heller wrote:

> At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:15:33 +0100 Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>> 
>> > At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> >> 
>> >> Hi;
>> >> 
>> >> I never bought a printer.
>> >> 
>> >> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>> >> 
>> >> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> >> does double sided printing, well.
>> >> 
>> >> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> >> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> >> 
>> >> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>> >> 
>> >> Thanks in advance either way
>> >> 
>> >> Steve
>> > 
>> > 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
>> > them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA!
>> > (Check Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)
>> 
>> Good thing that you are not painting with a broad brush...
>> 
>> BTW, I have used HP printers in linux since more than 10 years.
>> They worked fine
> 
> Older ones are great. 

It may come as a surprise to you: The new ones do, too

And why do you think that you can impress people with that inane bullshit 
you are spouting?

< snip garbage >

Robert Heller wrote:

> At 27 Dec 2011 18:32:37 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:15:33 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> 
>> > Robert Heller wrote:
>> > 
>> >> At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>> Hi;
>> >>> 
>> >>> I never bought a printer.
>> >>> 
>> >>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>> >>> 
>> >>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> >>> does double sided printing, well.
>> >>> 
>> >>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> >>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> >>> 
>> >>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>> >>> 
>> >>> Thanks in advance either way
>> >>> 
>> >>> Steve
>> >> 
>> >> 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
>> >> them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA!
>> >> (Check Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)
>> > 
>> > Good thing that you are not painting with a broad brush...
>> > 
>> > BTW, I have used HP printers in linux since more than 10 years. They
>> > worked fine
>> 
>> I've been using HPs for years also. They don't last forever but I've
>> always gotten my monies worth out of them. They operate seamlessly with
>> Linux so I recommend them. If you are worried about DOAs buy them from
>> Costco, they have an easy return policy and their prices are just as good
>> as Amazon's.
> 
> *I've* always found HP's *ink jet* printers a bitch to get working under
> Linux.

You mean like "plugging it in, and start using it"?

Because that is about the "bitch" to overcome

On Dec 27, 2:05=A0pm, unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:

> I believe double sided is rare on "all in ones" And most tend to be
> inkjet which, unless yo u only print a few 10s of pages a month, get
> pretty expensive replacing the ink cartridges. Decide what you really
> want and need. Do you need a scanner? or do you have this vision of once
> a year maybe scanning something? How many pages a month will you print?
> You need double sided why? All those things cost money. I would much
> rather go for a laser printer than for an inkjet. If you are going to be
> serious about scanning, get a decent scanner, not some marketer's
> afterthought. And who faxes anymore?

The fax component is mostly for job hunting.   Contracting
opportunities with government agencies with a yen for security ask for
signatures on applications.   I had a few during my last round of job
seeking that REQUIRED a printed out form, with my wet signature, faxed
to them, for the application process.  I took care of this at  Kinkos,
but it got expensive.    So, I would like a fax.

I belong to a study group for an arcane subject with expensive
books.   We frequently printout 10 page passages from one of these
books ( $100 for a copy of the books ) and make copies for our
discussions.   It would save me a LOT of money and hassles to have
something at home that could scan passages from these books and print
copies at home.   I'm big on being eco friendly, so that is why I am
into finding a printer that does double sided well.

I also like the idea of an all in one since I have limited desk space.

It is good to know what you have told me though, that I will sacrifice
quality with an all in one.

On Dec 27, 12:46=A0pm, Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> 2) Brother makes some great *laser* printers, that speak PostScript
> (they call it BrotherScript or BScript or some such nonsense). =A0Amazon
> has a color all-in-one laser printer from Brother for $550.00. =A0It does
> duplexing (double sided printing).

Noted!!!  Thanks for the good tip!

Steve wrote:

> Hi;
> 
> I never bought a printer.
> 
> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
> 
> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> does double sided printing, well.
> 
> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
> 
> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
> 
> Thanks in advance either way
> 
> Steve

Go for a laser if at all possible - the running costs are a fraction of an 
inkjet with its massively expensive cartridges.

Most printers play nice with linux, and for that you have to thank Apple in 
part - because they adopted CUPS as the primary OSX print subsystem and CUPS 
is what linux uses these days, which means the drivers[1] are readily 
available.

[1] "driver" is a bit of a misnomer as most consumer and business grade 
printers either speak PCL or postscript - but you if the printer is Apple 
supported, then you can get hold of the CUPS printer definition file, even 
if you have to rip it out of an Apple printer driver download.

In practice, you'll find a decent linux (including Ubuntu) will know about 
just about any printer you are likely to interested in.

As for make - HP and Canon are both generally well behaved devices, but HP 
have a much better track record for open source support, which in this case 
means the scanner/fax side so I would look at HP first. You'll want to 
install the hplip package(s) and that will give you (in conjunction with 
SANE) remote network scanning and some assistance with printing setup plus 
tools to check the status of the printer.

HTH

Tim

-- 
Tim Watts

On 12/27/2011 10:39 AM, Steve wrote:
> Hi;
>
> I never bought a printer.
>
> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>
> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner&  fax machine that
> does double sided printing, well.
>
> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>
> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>
> Thanks in advance either way
>
> Steve

   If you are looking at HP printers then search up a couple on the 
Internet or use an ad from the paper and start here:

http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html


   Click the 'Download HPLIP >>' button to start the compatibility 
wizard (browser based - doesn't do anything to you system, just asks 
questions about your setup) and plug in your information to see if the 
printer(s) are supported.

   I would lean towards a printer that that uses individual inks (not 
any tri-color cartridges) as you will save money by replacing only the 
colors needed. Some have 4 (1 black, 3 colors) and some have more (5 or 
6 maybe).

   If you aren't doing any color printing then maybe a black & white 
laserjet is what you are after. I just purchased an HP 5510 All-in-One 
Wireless (4 cartridges) for $69.00US and it works wonderfully. I did 
need to actually do the download/update of HPLIP though. As you can see 
by my sig i'm behind the times with upgrades... I only just upgraded 
from Ubuntu 8.04.

   As for anyone that says HP isn't supported very well, I think you'll 
find different.



-- 
Norman
Registered Linux user #461062
AMD64X2 6400+ Ubuntu 10.04 64bit

Steve wrote:
> On Dec 27, 2:05 pm, unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
> 
>> I believe double sided is rare on "all in ones" And most tend to be
>> inkjet which, unless yo u only print a few 10s of pages a month, get
>> pretty expensive replacing the ink cartridges. Decide what you really
>> want and need. Do you need a scanner? or do you have this vision of once
>> a year maybe scanning something? How many pages a month will you print?
>> You need double sided why? All those things cost money. I would much
>> rather go for a laser printer than for an inkjet. If you are going to be
>> serious about scanning, get a decent scanner, not some marketer's
>> afterthought. And who faxes anymore?
> 
> The fax component is mostly for job hunting.   Contracting
> opportunities with government agencies with a yen for security ask for
> signatures on applications.   I had a few during my last round of job
> seeking that REQUIRED a printed out form, with my wet signature, faxed
> to them, for the application process.  I took care of this at  Kinkos,
> but it got expensive.    So, I would like a fax.
> 
use a modem and a scanner IF you need to scan and fax. Mostly you dont 
of course: You just need to send a fax.


> I belong to a study group for an arcane subject with expensive
> books.   We frequently printout 10 page passages from one of these
> books ( $100 for a copy of the books ) and make copies for our
> discussions.   It would save me a LOT of money and hassles to have
> something at home that could scan passages from these books and print
> copies at home.   I'm big on being eco friendly, so that is why I am
> into finding a printer that does double sided well.
> 

home scanners are NOT photocopiers. They are way slower.

> I also like the idea of an all in one since I have limited desk space.
> 
> It is good to know what you have told me though, that I will sacrifice
> quality with an all in one.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:46:18 -0600, Robert Heller wrote:

> At Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Hi;
>> 
>> I never bought a printer.
>> 
>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>> 
>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> does double sided printing, well.
>> 
>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> 
>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance either way
>> 
>> Steve
> 
> 1) *Don't* get an HP -- HP is presently making *junk* inkjets -- avoid
> them like the plague.  Current model OfficeJets often arrive DOA! (Check
> Amazon's reviews for the OfficeJet Pro 8500.)

Disagree.  I have a two-year old OfficeJet 6500 that works great, and 
always has, including fax and scanning.

> 2) Brother makes some great *laser* printers, that speak PostScript
> (they call it BrotherScript or BScript or some such nonsense).  Amazon
> has a color all-in-one laser printer from Brother for $550.00.  It does
> duplexing (double sided printing).

Agreed.  My Brother HL5240 is the best laser I've ever had.


-- 
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he sold Eyore to the glue factory.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/politica/thanks.jpg

On 27/12/2011 19:57, Robert Heller wrote:
> At 27 Dec 2011 17:05:09 GMT General Schvantzkoph<schvantzkoph@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800, Steve wrote:
>>
>>> Hi;
>>>
>>> I never bought a printer.
>>>
>>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>>>
>>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner&  fax machine that
>>> does double sided printing, well.
>>>
>>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>>>
>>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance either way
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> HP All in Ones are the best supported printers. I'm using an OfficeJet Pro
>
> I beg to differ here.  Maybe if you are using a bleeding edge distro
> like Ubuntu.  Not so much otherwise.
>

<http://www.openprinting.org/printers> says otherwise.  You can quickly 
see that perhaps 70% of the HP printers listed are in the "works 
perfectly" category - and all but a few of the rest are "works mostly". 
  You should also find this page:

<http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html>

Clearly you need a modern version of HPLIP if you want good support of a 
new printer, but HP puts a lot of effort into their Linux software and 
drivers - all of which is fully open source.  While most printer 
manufacturers claim never to have heard of Linux, and searching their 
websites will give nothing more than forum posts asking for Linux 
drivers, HP's website above comes up high in google searches for Linux 
printers, and they explicitly list wide ranges of Linux distributions as 
compatible in the specifications for their printers.

Personally, I have never had any trouble with HP all-in-one printers 
with Linux, using various different distributions.

HP are not the only printer manufacturer who actively support Linux, of 
course, but they do deserve credit for their work.

>> which is one of the pricier models but all HPs use the same driver.
>> Printing, multiple page scanning (if the device you have has a feeder) all
>> work. In addition to being supported from Printer administrator, the HPs
>> with an Ethernet interface are also accessible from the browser, that's
>> how you can check ink levels.
>
> HP uses the most expensive ink carts.  Did you know: 4/5 of the SRP of
> an OfficeJet Pro 8500 is the cost of the consumables: ink carts and
> print head carts.  *Cheap* plastic gears.  Flimsy chassis.  You really
> don't want this machine.
>

It's certainly true that HP's inks are expensive.  Like most 
manufacturers, HP wants to make a profit from making and selling their 
systems.  Like most inkjet manufacturers, the printer hardware is 
artificially cheap - perhaps even below manufacturing costs, and 
certainly below total costs including development and support.  The 
profit is made on the ink and paper.

It's useful to know and understand that - but it is a perfectly 
reasonable business model.  If you are a small user, this gives you a 
low total cost and good hardware.  If you are a big user, the total cost 
is high - so you should buy more expensive printers with lower-cost 
consumables (and a correspondingly higher build quality and expected 
lifetime).  HP will sell you those too if you want.

 
> *I've* always found HP's *ink jet* printers a bitch to get working under
> Linux.  It might be that I use a 'conservitive' distro -- CentOS -- that
> does not always have the latest / bleeding edge driver software.
> Brother's printers were always much easier to deal with (or at least the
> only time I had to deal with a Brother ink jet all-in-one).  Of course,
> *PostScript* printers (all makes) just plain work out-of-the-box,
> PostScript being the 'native' printer language under Linux (and UNIX in
> general).


You should use the right distro for the job. RHEL/CentOS/SL is a server 
distro, it's a terrible choice for desktop use. I use Fedora for my 
workstation and laptop and SL6.1 on on my servers (I have 6 servers). 
CentOS or SL do a great job in the server application as long has the 
hardware is old or at least doesn't require any new drivers. The current 
generation of PCs are fully supported but on occasion there are 
generational changes that require new drivers. When I've gotten new 
systems that don't run under CentOS/SL I put Fedora on them until RHEL 
catches up. That's the price of doing business when you run Linux on 
consumer grade equipment. Redhat spends their effort on supporting 
enterprise hardware not consumer hardware. As a result it can take a 
fairly long time for a new piece of consumer gear to get supported in RHEL. 
If CentOS doesn't support a new piece of hardware then you should put 
Fedora on at least one of your machines and attach the new kit to that 
box. When CentOS catches up you can move the device to a CentOS box.

At 28 Dec 2011 19:25:21 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
>  
> > *I've* always found HP's *ink jet* printers a bitch to get working under
> > Linux.  It might be that I use a 'conservitive' distro -- CentOS -- that
> > does not always have the latest / bleeding edge driver software.
> > Brother's printers were always much easier to deal with (or at least the
> > only time I had to deal with a Brother ink jet all-in-one).  Of course,
> > *PostScript* printers (all makes) just plain work out-of-the-box,
> > PostScript being the 'native' printer language under Linux (and UNIX in
> > general).
> 
> 
> You should use the right distro for the job. RHEL/CentOS/SL is a server 
> distro, it's a terrible choice for desktop use. I use Fedora for my 

Ah, but what if you are using a server providing printer services?

And RHEL/CentOS/SL is NOT a server distro, it is an *enterprise* distro
and that in fact *includes* desktops (workstations) and laptops and
RHEL/CentOS/SL works just fine on desktops and laptops.  

> workstation and laptop and SL6.1 on on my servers (I have 6 servers). 
> CentOS or SL do a great job in the server application as long has the 
> hardware is old or at least doesn't require any new drivers. The current 
> generation of PCs are fully supported but on occasion there are 
> generational changes that require new drivers. When I've gotten new 
> systems that don't run under CentOS/SL I put Fedora on them until RHEL 
> catches up. That's the price of doing business when you run Linux on 
> consumer grade equipment. Redhat spends their effort on supporting 
> enterprise hardware not consumer hardware. As a result it can take a 
> fairly long time for a new piece of consumer gear to get supported in RHEL. 
> If CentOS doesn't support a new piece of hardware then you should put 
> Fedora on at least one of your machines and attach the new kit to that 
> box. When CentOS catches up you can move the device to a CentOS box.

Right.  In other words, HP's InkJet *printers* are not "enterprise
hardware", including their OfficeJet Pros.

>                                               

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                             

Robert Heller wrote:

> At 28 Dec 2011 19:25:21 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>  
>> > *I've* always found HP's *ink jet* printers a bitch to get working
>> > under
>> > Linux.  It might be that I use a 'conservitive' distro -- CentOS --
>> > that does not always have the latest / bleeding edge driver software.
>> > Brother's printers were always much easier to deal with (or at least
>> > the
>> > only time I had to deal with a Brother ink jet all-in-one).  Of course,
>> > *PostScript* printers (all makes) just plain work out-of-the-box,
>> > PostScript being the 'native' printer language under Linux (and UNIX in
>> > general).
>> 
>> 
>> You should use the right distro for the job. RHEL/CentOS/SL is a server
>> distro, it's a terrible choice for desktop use. I use Fedora for my
> 
> Ah, but what if you are using a server providing printer services?

Well, one can for sure ignore your rubbish about HP printers.
On *all* distros, server or desktop

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:07:45 -0600, Robert Heller wrote:

> At 28 Dec 2011 19:25:21 GMT General Schvantzkoph
> <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> > *I've* always found HP's *ink jet* printers a bitch to get working
>> > under Linux.  It might be that I use a 'conservitive' distro --
>> > CentOS -- that does not always have the latest / bleeding edge driver
>> > software. Brother's printers were always much easier to deal with (or
>> > at least the only time I had to deal with a Brother ink jet
>> > all-in-one).  Of course, *PostScript* printers (all makes) just plain
>> > work out-of-the-box, PostScript being the 'native' printer language
>> > under Linux (and UNIX in general).
>> 
>> 
>> You should use the right distro for the job. RHEL/CentOS/SL is a server
>> distro, it's a terrible choice for desktop use. I use Fedora for my
> 
> Ah, but what if you are using a server providing printer services?
> 
> And RHEL/CentOS/SL is NOT a server distro, it is an *enterprise* distro
> and that in fact *includes* desktops (workstations) and laptops and
> RHEL/CentOS/SL works just fine on desktops and laptops.
> 
>> workstation and laptop and SL6.1 on on my servers (I have 6 servers).
>> CentOS or SL do a great job in the server application as long has the
>> hardware is old or at least doesn't require any new drivers. The
>> current generation of PCs are fully supported but on occasion there are
>> generational changes that require new drivers. When I've gotten new
>> systems that don't run under CentOS/SL I put Fedora on them until RHEL
>> catches up. That's the price of doing business when you run Linux on
>> consumer grade equipment. Redhat spends their effort on supporting
>> enterprise hardware not consumer hardware. As a result it can take a
>> fairly long time for a new piece of consumer gear to get supported in
>> RHEL. If CentOS doesn't support a new piece of hardware then you should
>> put Fedora on at least one of your machines and attach the new kit to
>> that box. When CentOS catches up you can move the device to a CentOS
>> box.
> 
> Right.  In other words, HP's InkJet *printers* are not "enterprise
> hardware", including their OfficeJet Pros.
> 
>

If you can buy it at Costco it's not an enterprise device. All ink jet 
printers are consumer devices including OfficeJets. Consumer devices have 
model changes every few months, enterprise hardware has much longer life 
cycles. HP is really good about supporting Linux, their Linux drivers are 
always up to date. However if your distro doesn't include the new driver 
then it's the fault of the distro not HP. RHEL is very slow to incorporate 
new drivers. It's totally focused on stability at the expense of 
compatibility with newer hardware especially consumer hardware which 
changes at a far faster rate then RHEL. RHEL is a terrible distro to use 
for desktop type purposes. Not only does it do a poor job of supporting 
new hardware, it also does a poor job of supporting the few desktop apps 
that they include (Firefox is only at 3.x for example). The reason to use 
RHEL and clones is to run commercial software that needs a stable target 
so that they can qualify it. I use SL6.1 to run FPGA development tools, 
all of which are certified for RHEL. If the machine has a screen on it I 
use Fedora. Fedora provides me with up to date desktop type software, 
compatibility with recent hardware and it's just as stable (in the sense 
that it doesn't crash) as the RHEL clones. I assume you are a 
sophisticated user, if you are using CentOS then you must be. You are 
certainly capable of running a mixed environment, CentOS on most of your 
systems and Fedora on one or two if you have something that isn't CentOS 
compatible.

 

On Dec 27, 5:13=A0pm, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> home scanners are NOT photocopiers. They are way slower.

Thanks for the heads up.

I am willing to live with that in exchange for avoiding the cost and
hassles of going to Fed Ex kinkos.   Not to mention saving space.

On Dec 28, 4:18=A0am, David Brown <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
wrote:
> On 27/12/2011 19:57, Robert Heller wrote:
> <http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html>
>
> Clearly you need a modern version of HPLIP if you want good support of a
> new printer, but HP puts a lot of effort into their Linux software and
> drivers - all of which is fully open source. =A0While most printer
> manufacturers claim never to have heard of Linux, and searching their
> websites will give nothing more than forum posts asking for Linux
> drivers, HP's website above comes up high in google searches for Linux
> printers, and they explicitly list wide ranges of Linux distributions as
> compatible in the specifications for their printers.
>
> Personally, I have never had any trouble with HP all-in-one printers
> with Linux, using various different distributions.

Useful!   Bookmarked!

I've heard the brand "Brother" mentioned a lot.  Do they place nice
with Linux too?

On Dec 27, 4:01=A0pm, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
> Go for a laser if at all possible - the running costs are a fraction of a=
n
> inkjet with its massively expensive cartridges.

I visited the printer section at an Office Depot last night to
browse.  I noticed about a dozen laser models, but several dozen ink
jet models.

Are ink jet printers more modern or technically superior?

It will be an *occasional* use for me, but will laser printers do a
nice job with photographs?

Am I asking too much for one machine?

Price isn't so much an issue, but space.   I really don't have to buy
a rack, put it together and move furniture around.

On Dec 27, 10:39=A0am, Steve <tinker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> I never bought a printer.
>
> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>
> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
> does double sided printing, well.
>
> About how much will I have to spend? =A0 =A0Are there any printers as a
> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>
> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>
> Thanks in advance either way
>
> Steve

Thanks for all of the USEFUL info guys.

As a result I am going to pay more attention to HP or Brother
printers.  Lasers or multi-cartridges to save on operating costs.

Would not have known these things if not for your tips.

Thanks.

On Saturday 31 December 2011 14:52, Steve conveyed the following to 
comp.os.linux.misc...

> On Dec 28, 4:18 am, David Brown <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
> wrote:
>> On 27/12/2011 19:57, Robert Heller wrote:
>> <http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html>
>>
>> Clearly you need a modern version of HPLIP if you want good support
>> of a new printer, but HP puts a lot of effort into their Linux
>> software and drivers - all of which is fully open source.  While most
>> printer manufacturers claim never to have heard of Linux, and
>> searching their websites will give nothing more than forum posts
>> asking for Linux drivers, HP's website above comes up high in google
>> searches for Linux printers, and they explicitly list wide ranges of
>> Linux distributions as compatible in the specifications for their
>> printers.
>>
>> Personally, I have never had any trouble with HP all-in-one printers
>> with Linux, using various different distributions.
> 
> Useful!   Bookmarked!
> 
> I've heard the brand "Brother" mentioned a lot.  Do they place nice
> with Linux too?

Absolutely!  They even provide the source code for their utilities under 
the GPL (or a comparable license).  I've always used Brother and I have 
very good experiences with them.

-- 
= Aragorn =
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 05:52:16 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 28, 4:18=A0am, David Brown <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
> wrote:
> > On 27/12/2011 19:57, Robert Heller wrote:
> > <http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html>
> >
> > Clearly you need a modern version of HPLIP if you want good support of a
> > new printer, but HP puts a lot of effort into their Linux software and
> > drivers - all of which is fully open source. =A0While most printer
> > manufacturers claim never to have heard of Linux, and searching their
> > websites will give nothing more than forum posts asking for Linux
> > drivers, HP's website above comes up high in google searches for Linux
> > printers, and they explicitly list wide ranges of Linux distributions as
> > compatible in the specifications for their printers.
> >
> > Personally, I have never had any trouble with HP all-in-one printers
> > with Linux, using various different distributions.
> 
> Useful!   Bookmarked!
> 
> I've heard the brand "Brother" mentioned a lot.  Do they place nice
> with Linux too?

Generally, yes.

> 
>                                                                                                                           

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                               

At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 05:57:11 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 27, 4:01=A0pm, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
> > Go for a laser if at all possible - the running costs are a fraction of a=
> n
> > inkjet with its massively expensive cartridges.
> 
> I visited the printer section at an Office Depot last night to
> browse.  I noticed about a dozen laser models, but several dozen ink
> jet models.
> 
> Are ink jet printers more modern or technically superior?

Neither. The difference in model count is mostly a matter of marketing
and market forces. Ink jet printers are 'cheaper' to build or more
specificly, there is a larger market for cheap ink jet printers, so
there are lots of cheap ink jet printers. People looking at laser
printers want a solid, long lasting machine and are more deserning. 
The markets are different and the product selection reflects this.

> 
> It will be an *occasional* use for me, but will laser printers do a
> nice job with photographs?

Depends.  There is no reason a good quality laser printer should not do
a 'nice job' with photographs.  But you get what you pay for.

> 
> Am I asking too much for one machine?

Possibly.  Getting a laser printer that can print photographic quality
prints is going to be expensive and way overkill for 'occasional' use.
It depends on what you mean by 'occasional' and 'nice job with
photographs' -- *both* can be highly subjective! Getting an ink jet
that can do that would be initially cheaper, but costly in terms of
consumables.  In *both* cases getting a printer than can do
photographic quality prints can still be overkill if 99% of the time
you are just printing B&W text documents, with the odd bar chart
graphic or something like that. It is a matter of tradeoffs, and you
will have to weigh the costs and benefits involved. 

> 
> Price isn't so much an issue, but space.   I really don't have to buy
> a rack, put it together and move furniture around.

A lasser printer will take up more space than an ink jet, but again it
depends.  There are some compact laser printers available.

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                               

Steve wrote:
> On Dec 27, 4:01 pm, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
>> Go for a laser if at all possible - the running costs are a fraction of an
>> inkjet with its massively expensive cartridges.
> 
> I visited the printer section at an Office Depot last night to
> browse.  I noticed about a dozen laser models, but several dozen ink
> jet models.
> 
> Are ink jet printers more modern or technically superior?
> 
> It will be an *occasional* use for me, but will laser printers do a
> nice job with photographs?
> 
I have an HP CP15252n

It worked better with Linux, than with a MAC - the MAC is old and the HP 
drivers only worked with intel and or Lion or better - we are still tigered!


I had do download an addon package and pretend it was an older printer.

But HPLIPS or whatever it is worked on my debian setup.

Its EXPENSIVE to use. about 30p a sheet I reckon of there is suigificant 
colour on it.

  Its almost cheaper to buy a new printer than 4 new cartridges/drums 
for it.

But the photograph rendition is superb. It would probably be even better 
with the correct glossy paper.

Ideal for occasional color printing - for volume Id go up to a Ricoh or 
similar.

The fact that its pure network means you can out it anywhere there is an 
Ethernet connection.




> Am I asking too much for one machine?
> 

I would say so, yes.

Get a separate USB scanner.


> Price isn't so much an issue, but space.   I really don't have to buy
> a rack, put it together and move furniture around.
> 
> 
?

I don't use scanners much. For many applications I use a digital camera 
  and post process with the GIMP.:-)

Its more or less good enough for text.


I only use the scanners for when utterly accurate rendition is needed.
Mostly scale drawings and the like.
> 

Steve wrote:
> On Dec 27, 10:39 am, Steve <tinker...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi;
>>
>> I never bought a printer.
>>
>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>>
>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>> does double sided printing, well.
>>
>> About how much will I have to spend?    Are there any printers as a
>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>>
>> Anyone care to make a recommendation?
>>
>> Thanks in advance either way
>>
>> Steve
> 
> Thanks for all of the USEFUL info guys.
> 
> As a result I am going to pay more attention to HP or Brother
> printers.  Lasers or multi-cartridges to save on operating costs.
> 
Don't expect these to be low on either - many 'home' printers are sold 
at a virtual oss, and the money made on toner/drums.

That's why I still have an old HP laserjet 5MP for doing the 'bulk' 
black and white work.

> Would not have known these things if not for your tips.
> 
> Thanks.

On 2011-12-27, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> At 27 Dec 2011 17:05:09 GMT General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:39:36 -0800, Steve wrote:

>>> I have a PC at home running Ubuntu 10.10
>>> 
>>> I would like to get a combination printer, scanner & fax machine that
>>> does double sided printing, well.
>>> 
>>> About how much will I have to spend?  Are there any printers as a
>>> linux user I am better off going for or avoiding?
>> 
>> HP All in Ones are the best supported printers. I'm using an OfficeJet Pro 
>
> I beg to differ here.  Maybe if you are using a bleeding edge distro
> like Ubuntu.  Not so much otherwise.

I'd have to agree that HP's Linux support is the best I've seen.
Earlier this week I was at my parent's house and wanted to print
something from my Gentoo Laptop.  They have an OfficeJet
something-or-other multi-function printer on their LAN.  After an
"emerge HPLIP" I pointed a browser at CUPS using localhost:631,
clicked "add a printer", CUPS scanned the network, found the HP
printer, and a few clicks later I was printing a PDF just fine.

> HP uses the most expensive ink carts.  Did you know: 4/5 of the SRP of
> an OfficeJet Pro 8500 is the cost of the consumables: ink carts and
> print head carts.  *Cheap* plastic gears.  Flimsy chassis.  You really
> don't want this machine.

If you care about per-page cost, then you get a Laser printer.  I've
got an HP LaserJet 1320 (Postscript), and it's always worked perfectly
with Linux.  I've had it for about 7 years now, and haven't had to buy
anything but paper.  At the office we've got a LaserJet 5 (PCL) on the
LAN, and it works perfectly with Linux also.

If only Google Maps had a "print in B/W" button.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Isn't this my STOP?!
                                  at               
                              gmail.com            

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011, Steve wrote:

> I visited the printer section at an Office Depot last night to
> browse.  I noticed about a dozen laser models, but several dozen ink
> jet models.
>
> Are ink jet printers more modern or technically superior?
>
I'm pretty sure inkjets are older, but that doesn't mean a thing.  Unix is 
older than most operating systems, and it's still working fine in the form 
of Linux.

I used dot matrix printers up until I started using Linux, June 2001.  At 
a garage sale, I saw a $20 inkjet, the owner even said the cartridge was 
empty, but I was willing to pay at that point.  I bought a refill kit, and 
started to play with the novelty of fast graphic printing, so I likely did 
print more that month than usual.  The refill lasted about a month, which 
was a real disappointment.  And then I was out in rain and I noticed the 
pages smeared when wet, completely useless for a lot of things I wanted 
printing for. So I never refilled that inkjet.  I actually have quite a 
few in the basement, found lying on the sidewalk, waiting to find one 
complete with cartidges or cartridges that fit one I already have, to 
refill so I can have a color printer when I need it.  But I really haven't 
fussed in that department, I don't need color much, and I figure the 
cartridge would dry up by the time I need it.

I was lucky, about the same time I found that inkjet printer, I found a 
small postscript laser printer.  I didn't use it much, cant' remember why, 
but then a few months later when I found a laser printer at a rummage sale 
for $25, I grabbed it.  When the cartridge ran out, I abandoned that one, 
since there seemed to be a problem with printing (I was never sure if it 
was just because the "ink" was low, but it was an odd printer so I wasnt' 
willing to spend the money to refill it).  And then I found an HP-4P for 
$15 at a Rotary Club sale.  That was 2003 or so, I've used it since, I've 
bought new cartridges, it's a great printer.  I'd never go to inkjet 
unless I wanted color and decided a color laser was too expensive for me. 
This laser printer had about 3000 pages on it, really low, I've racked up 
quite a bit on it, haven't even checked in a while.  If it dies, I'll look 
for another used laser printer, I've even seen them lying on the sidewalk, 
but since I had one that works, didn't bother bringing them home.

People want cheap.  I paid $500 for my first printer, in the fall of 1982. 
Really slow, really ugly printout, no proper descenders, it was about as 
cheap as i could get and paid the money so I could print out programs.  My 
second printer came in 1984, a daisywheel printer for about $400, slow and 
I had to load each new sheet of paper myself like a typewriter, but it was 
cheap and gave great printout.  My third printer came in 1989, about $300 
for another dot matrix, but now one that was good enough for "near letter 
quality", it was faster that the previous two and gave good enough 
printout that I retired the daisywheel.  It still works, as does the Apple 
Imagewriter that I got used when I used a Macintosh for a few years.

You can get inkjet printers for under a hundred dollars.  They have been 
made cheaper because demand allows for streamlining of the manufacturing 
process, but they are also made cheaper because the masses want cheap. 
That inkjet printer I bought used in 2001 did sell for hundreds of dollars 
new, now few would tolerate such a high price.

    Michael

At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:01:17 -0500 Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

> 
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011, Steve wrote:
> 
> > I visited the printer section at an Office Depot last night to
> > browse.  I noticed about a dozen laser models, but several dozen ink
> > jet models.
> >
> > Are ink jet printers more modern or technically superior?
> >
> I'm pretty sure inkjets are older, but that doesn't mean a thing.  Unix is 
> older than most operating systems, and it's still working fine in the form 
> of Linux.

Laser printing is the 'older' technology, in that the first laser
printers predated the first ink jet printers.  Both technologies have
advanced over the years, so both are just as 'modern'.  I am not sure
if one is technically superior over the other.  They are different and
have different issues.  It is something of an apples vs. oranges
comparison. 

> 
> I used dot matrix printers up until I started using Linux, June 2001.  At 
> a garage sale, I saw a $20 inkjet, the owner even said the cartridge was 
> empty, but I was willing to pay at that point.  I bought a refill kit, and 
> started to play with the novelty of fast graphic printing, so I likely did 
> print more that month than usual.  The refill lasted about a month, which 
> was a real disappointment.  And then I was out in rain and I noticed the 
> pages smeared when wet, completely useless for a lot of things I wanted 
> printing for. So I never refilled that inkjet.  I actually have quite a 
> few in the basement, found lying on the sidewalk, waiting to find one 
> complete with cartidges or cartridges that fit one I already have, to 
> refill so I can have a color printer when I need it.  But I really haven't 
> fussed in that department, I don't need color much, and I figure the 
> cartridge would dry up by the time I need it.

Yes, ink jets have many negative issues: costly ink, water soluable ink
(which smears and runs when wet), etc.  Lasers have the down side of
using heat, which can be a problem for some print media, which might not
handle the heat well, OTOH, ink jets can't print on certain sorts of
media because the water soluable ink won't stick.

> 
> I was lucky, about the same time I found that inkjet printer, I found a 
> small postscript laser printer.  I didn't use it much, cant' remember why, 
> but then a few months later when I found a laser printer at a rummage sale 
> for $25, I grabbed it.  When the cartridge ran out, I abandoned that one, 
> since there seemed to be a problem with printing (I was never sure if it 
> was just because the "ink" was low, but it was an odd printer so I wasnt' 
> willing to spend the money to refill it).  And then I found an HP-4P for 
> $15 at a Rotary Club sale.  That was 2003 or so, I've used it since, I've 
> bought new cartridges, it's a great printer.  I'd never go to inkjet 
> unless I wanted color and decided a color laser was too expensive for me. 
> This laser printer had about 3000 pages on it, really low, I've racked up 
> quite a bit on it, haven't even checked in a while.  If it dies, I'll look 
> for another used laser printer, I've even seen them lying on the sidewalk, 
> but since I had one that works, didn't bother bringing them home.
> 
> People want cheap.  I paid $500 for my first printer, in the fall of 1982. 
> Really slow, really ugly printout, no proper descenders, it was about as 
> cheap as i could get and paid the money so I could print out programs.  My 
> second printer came in 1984, a daisywheel printer for about $400, slow and 
> I had to load each new sheet of paper myself like a typewriter, but it was 
> cheap and gave great printout.  My third printer came in 1989, about $300 
> for another dot matrix, but now one that was good enough for "near letter 
> quality", it was faster that the previous two and gave good enough 
> printout that I retired the daisywheel.  It still works, as does the Apple 
> Imagewriter that I got used when I used a Macintosh for a few years.
> 
> You can get inkjet printers for under a hundred dollars.  They have been 
> made cheaper because demand allows for streamlining of the manufacturing 
> process, but they are also made cheaper because the masses want cheap. 
> That inkjet printer I bought used in 2001 did sell for hundreds of dollars 
> new, now few would tolerate such a high price.
> 
>     Michael
> 
> 
>              

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
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On Dec 31, 10:20=A0am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> Don't expect these to be low on either - many 'home' printers are sold
> at a virtual oss, and the money made on toner/drums.
>
> That's why I still have an old HP laserjet 5MP for doing the 'bulk'
> black and white work.

I hear you, but right now I am relying on Fedex/Kinkos photocopy
shops.  Any home machine will be a highly visible improvement in cost
and hassle for me.

At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:20:28 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 31, 10:20=A0am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> > Don't expect these to be low on either - many 'home' printers are sold
> > at a virtual oss, and the money made on toner/drums.
> >
> > That's why I still have an old HP laserjet 5MP for doing the 'bulk'
> > black and white work.
> 
> I hear you, but right now I am relying on Fedex/Kinkos photocopy
> shops.  Any home machine will be a highly visible improvement in cost
> and hassle for me.

It is a trade off: if your photocopy needs are large enough to make 'out
sourcing' (eg Kinkos) to be less cost effective than the costs
associated with an all-in-one, then yes, get the all-in-one.  But you
really need to be sure you have taken all factors into account and
performed an *accurate and complete* cost analysis.  Many people don't
always do that and end up finding that even though there is a certain
cost and hassle dealing with a photocopy shop, it turns out that getting
an all-in-one is actually more costly and/or more hassle than they
thought. Sometimes a 'seat of the pants' analysis is not partitularly
accurate... The same actually also applies to printing photographs --
printers that produce photographic quality prints might not be very cost
effective doing bulk black and white document printing.  Another trade
off that many people don't always calculate accurately...

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                                                                        

Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:20:28 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 31, 10:20=A0am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> Don't expect these to be low on either - many 'home' printers are sold
>>> at a virtual oss, and the money made on toner/drums.
>>>
>>> That's why I still have an old HP laserjet 5MP for doing the 'bulk'
>>> black and white work.
>> I hear you, but right now I am relying on Fedex/Kinkos photocopy
>> shops.  Any home machine will be a highly visible improvement in cost
>> and hassle for me.
> 
> It is a trade off: if your photocopy needs are large enough to make 'out
> sourcing' (eg Kinkos) to be less cost effective than the costs
> associated with an all-in-one, then yes, get the all-in-one.  But you
> really need to be sure you have taken all factors into account and
> performed an *accurate and complete* cost analysis.  Many people don't
> always do that and end up finding that even though there is a certain
> cost and hassle dealing with a photocopy shop, it turns out that getting
> an all-in-one is actually more costly and/or more hassle than they
> thought. Sometimes a 'seat of the pants' analysis is not partitularly
> accurate... The same actually also applies to printing photographs --
> printers that produce photographic quality prints might not be very cost
> effective doing bulk black and white document printing.  Another trade
> off that many people don't always calculate accurately...
> 
Frankly, the number of people who seem to be able to calculate any trade 
off at all can be counted....

At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:52:06 +0000 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> 
> Robert Heller wrote:
> > At Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:20:28 -0800 (PST) Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Dec 31, 10:20=A0am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Don't expect these to be low on either - many 'home' printers are sold
> >>> at a virtual oss, and the money made on toner/drums.
> >>>
> >>> That's why I still have an old HP laserjet 5MP for doing the 'bulk'
> >>> black and white work.
> >> I hear you, but right now I am relying on Fedex/Kinkos photocopy
> >> shops.  Any home machine will be a highly visible improvement in cost
> >> and hassle for me.
> > 
> > It is a trade off: if your photocopy needs are large enough to make 'out
> > sourcing' (eg Kinkos) to be less cost effective than the costs
> > associated with an all-in-one, then yes, get the all-in-one.  But you
> > really need to be sure you have taken all factors into account and
> > performed an *accurate and complete* cost analysis.  Many people don't
> > always do that and end up finding that even though there is a certain
> > cost and hassle dealing with a photocopy shop, it turns out that getting
> > an all-in-one is actually more costly and/or more hassle than they
> > thought. Sometimes a 'seat of the pants' analysis is not partitularly
> > accurate... The same actually also applies to printing photographs --
> > printers that produce photographic quality prints might not be very cost
> > effective doing bulk black and white document printing.  Another trade
> > off that many people don't always calculate accurately...
> > 
> Frankly, the number of people who seem to be able to calculate any trade 
> off at all can be counted....

Yep.  It is what sells ink carts...  HP, et. al. are laughing all the
way to the bank...

>                                                    

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
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