Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to?

I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for the time being that we'd rather not do that. So, the question from the Subject line is: Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? Is there a way to turn off the journalling? (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?)

On 2007-02-19, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@xmission.xmission.com> wrote: > I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version > numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, > but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this > and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 > is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. > > Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is > unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would > have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an > option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new > partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for > the time being that we'd rather not do that. > > So, the question from the Subject line is: > > Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? > > Is there a way to turn off the journalling? > (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) It can definitely be done. It effectively takes an ext3 and turns it into an ext2, because the only real difference between ext{2,3} is the journal. I found a How-To by using Google, but I don't remember the full details off the top of my head. I seem to recall it involves the tune2fs command. To add a journal, you use the -j option. A quick grep of files in my my ~/News directory seems to indicate "tune2fs -O ^has_journal -l /dev/..." would do the job. The man page seems to concur. What did Google find for you? HTH -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@verizon.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

At Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000 (UTC) gazelle@xmission.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote: > > I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version > numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, > but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this > and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 > is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. Ext2 is just ext3 without journalling. If ext3 is an option, it is possible to use ext2 (mostly shared code). Even if the *installer* script does not provide the option, it is entirely possible to sneak under the installer (I do this all of the time when I install Linux, using RedHat variations). Presumably, the installer provides server virtual terminals and one is a plain bash shell. Go there (Ctrl-Alt-Fn, where n = 1, 2, 3, ...) and use fdisk and mke2fs to make all of your file systems by hand. Then return to the installer terminal and just use your created file systems (don't reformat). The installer might complain about not formatting system file systems (/, /usr, /var), just click / select the 'OK Procede anyway' choise. > > Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is > unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would > have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an > option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new > partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for > the time being that we'd rather not do that. > > So, the question from the Subject line is: > > Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? > > Is there a way to turn off the journalling? Mount it as an ext2 file system -- just edit /etc/fstab. We once had a machine that was dual boot, RH 6.2 and RH 7.3 (or RH 9). The /home file system (shared between the two O/Ss) had been migrated from ext2 to ext3. (We needed RH 6.2 for a partitular piece of hardware, which did not behave well with a 2.4 kernel. > (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) Probably not. > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Linux Installation and Administration http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database heller@deepsoft.com -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk

In article <slrnetk8g1.p39.rob@one.localnet>, Robert M. Riches Jr. <spamtrap42@verizon.net> wrote: .... >It can definitely be done. It effectively takes an ext3 and >turns it into an ext2, because the only real difference >between ext{2,3} is the journal. Good to know. >I found a How-To by using Google, but I don't remember the >full details off the top of my head. I seem to recall it >involves the tune2fs command. To add a journal, you use the >-j option. A quick grep of files in my my ~/News directory >seems to indicate "tune2fs -O ^has_journal -l /dev/..." >would do the job. The man page seems to concur. I'm not sure I understand your vernacular here. I don't imagine you literally meant "^has_journal" or "...". >What did Google find for you? Did some googling before posting, but (obviously) didn't find anything satisfactory. Maybe all I need to do is: man tune2fs.

In article <pan.2007.02.19.22.40.29.704359@storm.ca>, Yves Bellefeuille <yan@storm.ca> wrote: >On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Kenny McCormack wrote: > >> Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? > >tune2fs -O ^has_journal Thank you. Maybe RMR really did mean: ^has_journal...

Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote: > On 2007-02-19, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@xmission.xmission.com> wrote: >> I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version >> numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, >> but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this >> and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 >> is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. >> >> Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is >> unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would >> have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an >> option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new >> partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for >> the time being that we'd rather not do that. >> >> So, the question from the Subject line is: >> >> Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? >> >> Is there a way to turn off the journalling? >> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) > > It can definitely be done. It effectively takes an ext3 and > turns it into an ext2, because the only real difference > between ext{2,3} is the journal. I think you just mount it as ext2.... I don't know what you're supposed to do if you want to remount it as ext3 though. --Yan

In article <aa737$45da2758$404a99a1$27957@news.news-service.com>, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote: >At Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000 (UTC) gazelle@xmission.xmission.com >(Kenny McCormack) wrote: > >> >> I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version >> numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, >> but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this >> and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 >> is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. > >Ext2 is just ext3 without journalling. > >If ext3 is an option, it is possible to use ext2 (mostly shared code). >Even if the *installer* script does not provide the option, it is >entirely possible to sneak under the installer (I do this all of the >time when I install Linux, using RedHat variations). Presumably, the I know what you mean, but this particular installer is pretty "rigid". I didn't see any way to back door it. (Yes, it is pretty easy in RH-land) .... >Mount it as an ext2 file system -- just edit /etc/fstab. We once had a >machine that was dual boot, RH 6.2 and RH 7.3 (or RH 9). The /home >file system (shared between the two O/Ss) had been migrated from ext2 >to ext3. (We needed RH 6.2 for a partitular piece of hardware, which >did not behave well with a 2.4 kernel. Now, that's an interesting idea! Talk about "back dooring it"... >> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) > >Probably not. We shall see.

On 2007-02-19, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@xmission.xmission.com> wrote: > In article <pan.2007.02.19.22.40.29.704359@storm.ca>, > Yves Bellefeuille <yan@storm.ca> wrote: >>On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Kenny McCormack wrote: >> >>> Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? >> >>tune2fs -O ^has_journal > > Thank you. Maybe RMR really did mean: ^has_journal... Oops. Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry for the apparent typo. -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@verizon.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

On 2007-02-19, CptDondo <yan@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> wrote: > Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote: >> On 2007-02-19, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@xmission.xmission.com> wrote: >>> I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version >>> numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, >>> but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this >>> and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 >>> is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. >>> >>> Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is >>> unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would >>> have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an >>> option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new >>> partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for >>> the time being that we'd rather not do that. >>> >>> So, the question from the Subject line is: >>> >>> Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? >>> >>> Is there a way to turn off the journalling? >>> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) >> >> It can definitely be done. It effectively takes an ext3 and >> turns it into an ext2, because the only real difference >> between ext{2,3} is the journal. > > I think you just mount it as ext2.... > > I don't know what you're supposed to do if you want to remount it as > ext3 though. Leaving the journal in place and just mounting it as ext2 should be viable. Getting rid of the journal should also work and avoids wasting the journal's space allocation and avoids any risk of later applying a stale journal. -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@verizon.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

gazelle@xmission.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes: > In article <aa737$45da2758$404a99a1$27957@news.news-service.com>, > Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote: >>At Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000 (UTC) gazelle@xmission.xmission.com >>(Kenny McCormack) wrote: >>Mount it as an ext2 file system -- just edit /etc/fstab. We once had a >>machine that was dual boot, RH 6.2 and RH 7.3 (or RH 9). The /home >>file system (shared between the two O/Ss) had been migrated from ext2 >>to ext3. (We needed RH 6.2 for a partitular piece of hardware, which >>did not behave well with a 2.4 kernel. > > Now, that's an interesting idea! Talk about "back dooring it"... > >>> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) I've had ext3 turn into ext2 just be rebooting an old release. Getting back to ext3 required some command as I remember...

>>>> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) > > I've had ext3 turn into ext2 just be rebooting an old release. > > Getting back to ext3 required some command as I remember... Early versions of fsck.ext2, if I recall, would get rid of the journal - and in order to get it back, you'd have to use a more recent version of tune2fs. However, as you say, that would have to be an old OS - I haven't had that happen in a very long time. steve

Kenny McCormack <gazelle@xmission.xmission.com> did eloquently scribble: > In article <pan.2007.02.19.22.40.29.704359@storm.ca>, > Yves Bellefeuille <yan@storm.ca> wrote: >>On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Kenny McCormack wrote: >> >>> Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? >> >>tune2fs -O ^has_journal > Thank you. Maybe RMR really did mean: ^has_journal... He wouldn't've said it if he didn't mean it. the ^ means "not" man tune2fs for more. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | spike1@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a | | | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit | |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit | | in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that| | Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Schvantzkoph wrote: > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote: > .... snip ... >> >> Is there a way to turn off the journalling? >> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) > > Change /etc/fstab to mount the partitions as EXT2 instead of EXT3 > then do a reboot or just unmount the partitions and then remount > them. EXT3 is just EXT2 plus a journal. But don't try going the other way, or the fit will hit the shan. -- <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt> <http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423> "A man who is right every time is not likely to do very much." -- Francis Crick, co-discover of DNA "There is nothing more amazing than stupidity in action." -- Thomas Matthews

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:00:24 -0500, CBFalconer wrote: > General Schvantzkoph wrote: >> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote: >> > ... snip ... >>> >>> Is there a way to turn off the journalling? >>> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) >> >> Change /etc/fstab to mount the partitions as EXT2 instead of EXT3 >> then do a reboot or just unmount the partitions and then remount >> them. EXT3 is just EXT2 plus a journal. > > But don't try going the other way, or the fit will hit the shan. > You can go the other way as long as you do a tune2fs -j again.

On 2007-02-20, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote: > General Schvantzkoph wrote: >> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote: >> > ... snip ... >>> >>> Is there a way to turn off the journalling? >>> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) >> >> Change /etc/fstab to mount the partitions as EXT2 instead of EXT3 >> then do a reboot or just unmount the partitions and then remount >> them. EXT3 is just EXT2 plus a journal. > > But don't try going the other way, or the fit will hit the shan. As long as you don't try to apply a journal that has become stale, you should be able (with proper procedure) to convert from ext2 to ext3 without creating a mess. Back on Redhat 7.2, 7.3, 8.0, or 9, I converted from ext2 to ext3 by simply doing 'tune2fs -j' on the applicable partitions and updating initrd to include the ext3 module. Other than forgetting to update initrd the first time through, it worked without any problems. -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@verizon.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote: > I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version > numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, > but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this > and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 > is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. > > Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is > unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would > have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an > option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new > partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for > the time being that we'd rather not do that. > > So, the question from the Subject line is: > > Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? > > Is there a way to turn off the journalling? > (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) The easiest way to permanently turn off journaling is to go into /etc/fstab (as root) and change the filesystem of the partition in question from ext3 to ext2, and reboot. Done. (You'll have to erase the journal manually, but I usually don't bother. It won't make any difference other than taking up a little disk space.) I'm sure there are other, more involved ways to do the same thing -- this IS Linux, after all -- but this is the way I do it when I have to. To temporarily turn off journaling without rebooting, use the remount option in the mount command setting the filesystem type to ext2. man mount for more. When you reboot, journaling will be re-enabled. Or you can use -j option in tune2fs to make a new journal without rebooting. Stef

Stefan Patric <tootek2@yahoo.com> writes: >On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote: >> I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version >> numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, >> but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this >> and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 >> is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. >> >> Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is >> unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would Uh, why do you think it will either cause problems or is unnecessary? This just seems bizzare. Many have told you how to turn journaling off , but it is like getting advice on how to amputate a foot when you say your foot is giving you trouble while walking. >> have preferred to install it as ext2, but, as stated, this was not an >> option. Clearly, there are ways to do this by formatting a new >> partition as ext2 and then copying everything over, but let's assume for >> the time being that we'd rather not do that. >> >> So, the question from the Subject line is: >> >> Turn "journalling" off on ext3: How to? >> >> Is there a way to turn off the journalling? >> (Or is this something I really shouldn't be doing?) >The easiest way to permanently turn off journaling is to go into >/etc/fstab (as root) and change the filesystem of the partition in >question from ext3 to ext2, and reboot. Done. (You'll have to erase >the journal manually, but I usually don't bother. It won't make any >difference other than taking up a little disk space.) I'm sure there are >other, more involved ways to do the same thing -- this IS Linux, after all >-- but this is the way I do it when I have to. >To temporarily turn off journaling without rebooting, use the remount >option in the mount command setting the filesystem type to ext2. man >mount for more. When you reboot, journaling will be re-enabled. Or you >can use -j option in tune2fs to make a new journal without rebooting. >Stef

In article <ermaht$ap6$1@aioe.org>, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote: >Stefan Patric <tootek2@yahoo.com> writes: > >>On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:01:30 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote: > >>> I'm an old Linux hand, having installed several versions with version >>> numbers below 1.0. I've been away from it for a while (still using it, >>> but less involved in keeping track of the day-to-day revisions of this >>> and that). I recently installed Knoppix on a laptop, and found that ext2 >>> is not a filesystem choice. The choices are ext3, reiserfs, and jfs. >>> >>> Now, my issue is that given the situation, I think that journalling is >>> unnecessary and, in fact, that it is causing me problems. So, I would > >Uh, why do you think it will either cause problems or is unnecessary? This >just seems bizzare. Many have told you how to turn journaling off , but it >is like getting advice on how to amputate a foot when you say your foot is >giving you trouble while walking. Sometimes exactly that is necessary. Anyway, I knew that, despite my best efforts, eventually someone would come along and post that sort of knee-jerk (to continue the human anatomy metaphor...) response.