Linux?
So where *is* Linux?
After 10 years why does Microsoft still control at least 90% of the
desktop market?

Why does discussion in COLA focus on the misfires my Microsoft instead
of the success's of Linux?

Why is there so much mis-information and lies in COLA? An example is
the current Ford moves to Linux thread.

Why do Linux browsers still stink and why are Linux users so concerned
with standards and blaming Microsoft for the solid fact that the Linux
browsers do not render sites as well as Internet Explorer does?
Internet Explorer *IS* the standard and that is why website designers
make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!

Why do Linux users constantly whine about Microsoft stealing and
copying technology yet deny that kde and gnome are looking more like
Windows every day?

Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the xfree
how-to when superior tools exist?

Why does Open Office still not support Word documents properly?

If Linux is so good why do Linux users need wine?

Why can I walk through MicroCenter and see hundreds of pre-configured
systems, thousands of peripherals like video cards, CD-ROMs and so forth
yet I can't find a single system that is offered with Linux?

They even have an Apple section in the store with all the latest stuff
and they are in the process of re-organizing because the iPod demand
is so high they need more shelf space to display the stuff.

I was just in there today in the Atlanta store and Linux can only be
located in the book dept.

Face the truth linux nuts, Linux is totally and completely irrelevant
to us common desktop users.

Linux has not even made a ding in the desktop market.
Your group COLA is old, stale, redundent and full of technically inept
wingnuts that are a half a keg low and wrapped way too tight.

Linux isn't just dead as a desktop system, it truly wants to be put
out of its confused, embarrassing misery.

They shoot horses don't they?
Somebody pull the plug before rigormortis sets in on Linux.

Xomicron wrote:

> Linux?
> So where *is* Linux?
> After 10 years why does Microsoft still control at least 90% of the
> desktop market?

Linux has 16% of the desktop right now.

China just signed a license with Sun for 200 Million Linux desktops.

That's another 1/5th of the entire 1 Billion PC desktop universe.

> Why does discussion in COLA focus on the misfires my Microsoft instead
> of the success's of Linux?

Why do Steve Ballmer and Bill Gate$ rant and prance about Linux when Linux
leaders remain stoic and merely mete out good code.

> Why is there so much mis-information and lies in COLA? An example is
> the current Ford moves to Linux thread.

Why did Steve Ballmer and Bill Gate$ fund Bay Star with $100 Million in
slush fund money to try and 'stop Linux' only to watch the SCO fiasco
*explode* in their pimply faces.

> Why do Linux browsers still stink and why are Linux users so concerned
> with standards and blaming Microsoft for the solid fact that the Linux
> browsers do not render sites as well as Internet Explorer does?

Why is Mozilla and Firefox the browsers of choice, worldwide?

> Internet Explorer *IS* the standard and that is why website designers

Not according to W3C standards.  IE is a rogue browser designed to subvert
standards so Micro$oft can capitalize on its own standards.

> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!

Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is exploding.

> Why do Linux users constantly whine about Microsoft stealing and
> copying technology yet deny that kde and gnome are looking more like
> Windows every day?

That's because XP ripped off the GNOME look and feel.

> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the xfree
> how-to when superior tools exist?

Ok, now everyone's falling asleep...WTF is wvdial ?

> Why does Open Office still not support Word documents properly?

Because it's based on worldwide XML standards...something that M$ promised
to have in place by Office 10 -- but dropped the ball and failed miserably,
which is why Sun scored an enourmous deal to supply India with Open Office.

> If Linux is so good why do Linux users need wine?

Because we need to drown our sorrows in alcohol from listening to 24x7
wintroll rants from the leader of MicroCrap.

> Why can I walk through MicroCenter and see hundreds of pre-configured
> systems, thousands of peripherals like video cards, CD-ROMs and so forth
> yet I can't find a single system that is offered with Linux?

Maybe you should not wear your ski mask so far down on your eyes.

> They even have an Apple section in the store with all the latest stuff
> and they are in the process of re-organizing because the iPod demand
> is so high they need more shelf space to display the stuff.

Yeah, like a $50 dollar mp3 player that can do everything the i-Peed does.

> I was just in there today in the Atlanta store and Linux can only be
> located in the book dept.

Where the smart people shop.

> Face the truth linux nuts, Linux is totally and completely irrelevant
> to us common desktop users.

Linux is the choice of 3/4 of the world's population of desktop users. 
Brazil, India, China, Australian have all 'gone Linux'.   The Dominoes have
fallen and they can't get up...

> Linux has not even made a ding in the desktop market.
> Your group COLA is old, stale, redundent and full of technically inept
> wingnuts that are a half a keg low and wrapped way too tight.

Ok, so leave.

> Linux isn't just dead as a desktop system, it truly wants to be put
> out of its confused, embarrassing misery.

No, it wants a nice quiet home, away from needling winTrolls and rants from
Steve Ballmer and Bill Gate$

> They shoot horses don't they?

Yes, when they have outlived their usefullness -- like Windos has...

> Somebody pull the plug before rigormortis sets in on Linux.

Pull the tampon out of your ass, you'll feel a lot better...

-- 
w:04

Pepe Le Peu <aaaaaaa@mon.cheri> wrote in
news:1684168.za6OpWag6U@news.west.earthlink.net: 

>> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
>> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
>> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!
> 
> Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is exploding.

Nobody can tell.

Xomicron wrote:

> Pepe Le Peu <aaaaaaa@mon.cheri> wrote in
> news:1684168.za6OpWag6U@news.west.earthlink.net:
> 
>>> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
>>> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
>>> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!
>> 
>> Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is exploding.
> 
> Nobody can tell.

If you live in a well, with your ears plugged with grease...perhaps...

-- 
w:04

Xomicron wrote:
> Linux?
> So where *is* Linux?

1. Way ahead of you.

2. MS Enemy #1

Cheers,
WS
-- 
Not posting from my Linux box.

On 2004-06-09, Pepe Le Peu <aaaaaaa@mon.cheri> wrote:

> Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is exploding.

I used to think Opera had a chance as well, but I finally
switched from Opera back to Mozilla because there were just too
many badly written websites that Opera didn't handle well.
Opera also crashed a lot, and the last time they "upgraded" the
UI, I didn't like the results.  They seem to have stopped
worrying about making a good browser and started working on
bloat like e-mail and such.  Maybe there's a market for the
result, but I guess I'm not part of it.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Do you need
                                  at               any MOUTH-TO-MOUTH
                               visi.com            resuscitation?

Lee Wei Shun wrote:

> Xomicron wrote:
>> Linux?
>> So where *is* Linux?
> 
> 1. Way ahead of you.
> 
> 2. MS Enemy #1
> 

The usual Bull. Copy/pasted it?
Ah, no, doesn't really work reliably in linux

Lee Wei Shun wrote:

> Xomicron wrote:
>> Linux?
>> So where is Linux?
> 
> 1. Way ahead of you.
> 
> 2. MS Enemy #1
> 

The usual not Bull. Didn't my brain used to work better?
Ah, no, doesn't really work reliably

Zeig Heil!

Pepe Le Peu wrote:

> Xomicron wrote:
>
 
[....]

> Linux has 16% of the desktop right now.

Says who?

> 
> China just signed a license with Sun for 200 Million Linux desktops.
> 
> That's another 1/5th of the entire 1 Billion PC desktop universe.

Yep, a slight chance that linux will become a professional desktop 
system in some years. Sun _is_ professional, you know.
> 
>> Why does discussion in COLA focus on the misfires my Microsoft
>> instead of the success's of Linux?
> 
> Why do Steve Ballmer and Bill Gate$ rant and prance about Linux when
> Linux leaders remain stoic and merely mete out good code.

Why don't you answer the question?

> 
>> Why is there so much mis-information and lies in COLA? An example
>> is the current Ford moves to Linux thread.
> 
> Why did Steve Ballmer and Bill Gate$ fund Bay Star with $100 Million
> in slush fund money to try and 'stop Linux' only to watch the SCO
> fiasco *explode* in their pimply faces.

Why don't you answer the question?

> 
>> Why do Linux browsers still stink and why are Linux users so
>> concerned with standards and blaming Microsoft for the solid fact
>> that the Linux browsers do not render sites as well as Internet
>> Explorer does?
> 
> Why is Mozilla and Firefox the browsers of choice, worldwide?

Huh??

> 
>> Internet Explorer *IS* the standard and that is why website
>> designers
> 
> Not according to W3C standards.  IE is a rogue browser designed to
> subvert standards so Micro$oft can capitalize on its own standards.

Who cares?

> 
>> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
>> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
>> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!
> 
> Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is
> exploding.

I downloaded and tested it under SuSE 8.1 - No, thanks.

> 
>> Why do Linux users constantly whine about Microsoft stealing and
>> copying technology yet deny that kde and gnome are looking more
>> like Windows every day?
> 
> That's because XP ripped off the GNOME look and feel.

Before it came out. ROTFL

> 
>> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the
>> xfree how-to when superior tools exist?
> 
> Ok, now everyone's falling asleep...WTF is wvdial ?
> 
>> Why does Open Office still not support Word documents properly?
> 
> Because it's based on worldwide XML standards...something that M$
> promised to have in place by Office 10 -- but dropped the ball and
> failed miserably, which is why Sun scored an enourmous deal to
> supply India with Open Office.

Again, who cares?

> 
>> If Linux is so good why do Linux users need wine?
> 
> Because we need to drown our sorrows in alcohol from listening to
> 24x7 wintroll rants from the leader of MicroCrap.

The usual linunut argument
[....]

> 
> Linux is the choice of 3/4 of the world's population of desktop
> users.

Shit? Speed? Cocaine? or just too much beer?

> Brazil, India, China, Australian have all 'gone Linux'.   The
> Dominoes have fallen and they can't get up...
 [....]

Pepe Le Peu wrote:

> Xomicron wrote:
> 
> 
>>Pepe Le Peu <aaaaaaa@mon.cheri> wrote in
>>news:1684168.za6OpWag6U@news.west.earthlink.net:
>>
>>
>>>>make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
>>>>Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
>>>>Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!
>>>
>>>Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is exploding.
>>
>>Nobody can tell.
> 
> 
> If you live in a well, with your ears plugged with grease...perhaps...
> 


tried it, didn't like it

Xomicron wrote:

> Pepe Le Peu <aaaaaaa@mon.cheri> wrote in
> news:1684168.za6OpWag6U@news.west.earthlink.net:
> 
>>> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
>>> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
>>> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!
>> 
>> Opera is the PC World editors choice browser.  It's market is
>> exploding.
> 
> Nobody can tell.

My crystal ball is at service right now :)

Robert Stankowic wrote:
> Pepe Le Peu wrote:

>> Not according to W3C standards.  IE is a rogue browser designed to
>> subvert standards so Micro$oft can capitalize on its own standards.
>
> Who cares?

I do, and I build websites for a living. And so do a lot of other people
care, Bob. The fact that you and your neighbor Fritz don't care is hardly
material.

>> Brazil, India, China, Australian have all 'gone Linux'.   The
>> Dominoes have fallen and they can't get up...

Bob? I'm waiting for your "Who cares?"

Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
> Why do Linux browsers still stink and why are Linux users so concerned
> with standards and blaming Microsoft for the solid fact that the Linux
> browsers do not render sites as well as Internet Explorer does?
> Internet Explorer *IS* the standard and that is why website designers
> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!

I hate feeding trolls, but....

Go back to the US DoJ case against MS and read the findings of
fact, all 400+ of them.  One of the ways that MS broke the law is
as follows:

- They created a web creation tool which explicitly broke
  operability with Netscape.  This was a design feature of the
  web authoring tool.  I've seen that IE can render a page with a
  deliberately un-terminated table, for instance.  MS authored
  pages even go so far as to check for the browser being used and
  refuse to operate if a non IE browser is found, even though
  the page would render fine in the non-IE browser.

- They prevented IE from being removed from their OS in two ways.
  One way was the technical difficulty in doing so.  Just try to
  keep network services operable when removing IE.  Second, they
  blackmailed their customers, e.g. Compaq, to prevent them from
  offering Netscape in any visible place.

The list goes on and on and on.  Check out
http://usvms.gpo.gov/findfact.html for all the details.  On
appeal Microsoft did not dispute the facts, only the punishment.

After you're done reading the above findings of fact, then come
back here and tell us all that you still believe as you seem to
now.

bye

-- 
PLEASE post a SUMMARY of the answer(s) to your question(s)!
Unless otherwise noted, the statements herein reflect my personal
opinions and not those of any organization with which I may be affiliated.

Dump Dubbya wrote:

> Robert Stankowic wrote:
>> Pepe Le Peu wrote:
> 
>>> Not according to W3C standards.  IE is a rogue browser designed to
>>> subvert standards so Micro$oft can capitalize on its own
>>> standards.
>>
>> Who cares?
> 
> I do, and I build websites for a living. And so do a lot of other
> people care, Bob. The fact that you and your neighbor Fritz don't
> care is hardly material.
> 

Agreed. I write applications for my living, and I write them for Win32 
because that is the only way, at least here, to make enough money for 
3 meals and 2 beers per day. (I pack all the portable stuff together, 
separated from the UI and test it with gcc et al under linux for 
portability, so porting to another OS should not be too hard). I'd 
_wish_ linux gets more market share, in which case I'd switch over to 
linux development, but right now...

What I wanted to say wit "who cares" - and I aplogize if I hit a nerve 
- was, that I ccould not easily understand why a webpage builder 
would care about just a few percent surfers.
But rethinking that, I can see that it was a silly thought - a webpage 
probably _must_ work correctly with each browser, even one of them 
has just 2% market share. Programming is another story, A windows app 
is a windows app is a windows app, and I really need not care if it 
runs under MacOS, vms, linux/unix or whatever. If some linux - using 
company wants my app I will make an offer for a port, and if they 
agree, I will make the port (but that never happened yet).

Robert Stankowic wrote:

> What I wanted to say wit "who cares" - and I aplogize if I hit a nerve
> - was, that I ccould not easily understand why a webpage builder
> would care about just a few percent surfers.
> But rethinking that, I can see that it was a silly thought - a webpage
> probably _must_ work correctly with each browser, even one of them
> has just 2% market share.

You still don't get it, Bob. The whole point is that I do not want to
support standards set by a corporation. I want to support standards set by
the w3c http://www.w3.org/

Percentage of users is immaterial. This is a matter of principle. You are
unprincipled.

Robert Stankowic wrote:

> Agreed. I write applications for my living, and I write them for Win32 
> because that is the only way, at least here, to make enough money for 
> 3 meals and 2 beers per day. (I pack all the portable stuff together, 

Yes, but it obviously doesn't use enough of your time to keep you from 
trolling COLA 24 hours a day.

I guess win32 client business is going down the tubes.

Luckily I specialize in c# which means I'm primed for mono and dotgnu work.

Also, anything I write is instantly portable to Linux.

So 'Rob' maybe a little more time learning mono and a little less time 
trolling would help the old career.

Also, if you're going to post -- please do it before, not /after/ the 
two beers.

Dump Dubbya wrote:

> Robert Stankowic wrote:
> 

[....]

> 
> You still don't get it, Bob. The whole point is that I do not want
> to support standards set by a corporation. I want to support
> standards set by the w3c http://www.w3.org/
> 
> Percentage of users is immaterial. This is a matter of principle.
> You are unprincipled.

This is an argument I must (and happily do) respect.
And you are right, I am unprincipled in this matter (and many others), 
but there are as well areas, where I an pretty much principled.
Uh, and some of them are even standards. Ok, you win.:)

Pepe Le Peu wrote:
> 
> Why is Mozilla and Firefox the browsers of choice, worldwide?

Incorrect. IE has 95% of the market. Perhaps you have no clue on how to
check your website stats. 


-- 
http://www.bootdisk.com/

Plato wrote:
> Pepe Le Peu wrote:
>>
>> Why is Mozilla and Firefox the browsers of choice, worldwide?
>
> Incorrect. IE has 95% of the market. Perhaps you have no clue on how
> to check your website stats.

Yes, but Moz and FF are the browsers of /choice/  !

IOW, if you spend any time at all explaining the differences between IE and
gecko browsers to anyone, they always choose the gecko browser -- *always* !

And if you simply let them test drive a browser like Mozilla, you don't have
to do any explaining. They just _demand_ to use it in future.  :-)  True.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Xomicron
<xomicron@wp.pl>
 wrote
on Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:46:17 -0700
<OXW7C$hTEHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>:
> Linux?
> So where *is* Linux?

Where is it supposed to be?  On the desktop?  Serving users?
Up your [censored]?

> After 10 years why does Microsoft still control at least 90% of the
> desktop market?

Because Microsoft performs well enough for most people, and
because most people don't know there's a better solution
out there.  Presumably this is changing.

>
> Why does discussion in COLA focus on the misfires my Microsoft instead
> of the success's of Linux?

I can't say for sure, but part of it might be because we like
to see Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot.  :-)  Then
again, the successes are there, just hidden; a true OS is
well-nigh invisible and the only thing one sees is the
actual results.

>
> Why is there so much mis-information and lies in COLA? An example is
> the current Ford moves to Linux thread.

You'll have to be more specific.  I did dredge up

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/20689.html

but that doesn't go into detail as to whether Linux is being
used, or not -- I'd have to dig.  And IBM is apparently of
two minds of it all; most of their consumer equipment has
XP on it, AFAICT.

>
> Why do Linux browsers still stink and why are Linux users so concerned
> with standards and blaming Microsoft for the solid fact that the Linux
> browsers do not render sites as well as Internet Explorer does?

You'll have to be more specific on *that*.  Browsers do not
include Smell-O-Vision. :-)  Also, IE and CSS2 have problems.

> Internet Explorer *IS* the standard and that is why website designers
> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!

They do if they want customers therefrom.  At 3% of
the market (a lowball estimate to the higher 16%) it's
not horribly significant, perhaps -- but that market
is growing, and a lot of Windows users do use Mozilla
or Firefox.

Ignore it at one's peril.

>
> Why do Linux users constantly whine about Microsoft stealing and
> copying technology yet deny that kde and gnome are looking more like
> Windows every day?

I'll admit I'm of two minds about that.

>
> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the xfree
> how-to when superior tools exist?

Such as?

I use ppp.  I don't need graphical thingies to connect to the Net.
As for xfree, take your pick; there are at least three configurators
out there (one of them proprietary to ATI, admittedly).

>
> Why does Open Office still not support Word documents properly?

Because the Word format keeps changing?

>
> If Linux is so good why do Linux users need wine?

Linux is a kernel.  Wine solves a completely different problem.

>
> Why can I walk through MicroCenter and see hundreds of pre-configured
> systems, thousands of peripherals like video cards, CD-ROMs and so forth
> yet I can't find a single system that is offered with Linux?

Because the contract disallows it.  Next Q!

>
> They even have an Apple section in the store with all the latest stuff
> and they are in the process of re-organizing because the iPod demand
> is so high they need more shelf space to display the stuff.
>
> I was just in there today in the Atlanta store and Linux can only be
> located in the book dept.
>
> Face the truth linux nuts, Linux is totally and completely irrelevant
> to us common desktop users.
>
> Linux has not even made a ding in the desktop market.
> Your group COLA is old, stale, redundent and full of technically inept
> wingnuts that are a half a keg low and wrapped way too tight.
>
> Linux isn't just dead as a desktop system, it truly wants to be put
> out of its confused, embarrassing misery.
>
> They shoot horses don't they?
> Somebody pull the plug before rigormortis sets in on Linux.

And what would we replace it with?

FreeBSD?  Now there's a notion -- at least the FreeBSD trolls
are *intelligent*.

HURD?  Not quite finished but looks like it's wiggling.

FreeDOS?  Duh...monotasking.  Duh.  Still, it's a start.

BeOS?  Dead.  (Regrettable, admittedly; I would have liked to at
least look at it.)

MacOS?  Apple-specific, though someone out there's probably trying
to figure out how to port it to x86 machinery.

AmigaOS?  One can dream, although it's unlikely at this point.

Windows?  Act now and get a FREE Upgrade to the Virus-O'-The-Day!  And
we'll throw in an extra helping of adware as well!

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.

Xomicron wrote:
> 
> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the xfree
> how-to when superior tools exist?

i dont use dialup anymore, but how is wvdial "outdated".  Is there a 
more advanced way to do this now???

-- 
Luke Albers
Georgia Institute of Technology, Electrical Engineering
Email:  gtg940r@mail.gatech.edu
Web:    www.lukealbers.com

In comp.os.linux.misc Luke Albers <gtg940r@mail.gatech.edu> wrote:
> Xomicron wrote:
>> 
>> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the xfree
>> how-to when superior tools exist?

> i dont use dialup anymore, but how is wvdial "outdated".  Is there a 
> more advanced way to do this now???

I can't think of one...
Check modem, send reset, sent init, send dialup command, wait, send user,
send pass, wait, when ppp stuff's detected, hand over to it...

Either that, or the other variants all covered by wvdial (unless the "isp"
is using non-standard practices).

Seems pretty straightforward to me. It's the only way TO do it.

Xomicron wrote:

> Linux?
> So where *is* Linux?
> After 10 years why does Microsoft still control at least 90% of the
> desktop market?

Large amounts of money, mainly. They've got huge resources to draw on. And
people have grown familiar with Windows products. In general, people fear
the unknown. Persuading them that Linux might be a better choice of OS for
them isn't always going to be easy. Also, it's only recently that Linux has
begun to turn more towards teh desktop market

> 
> Why does discussion in COLA focus on the misfires my Microsoft instead
> of the success's of Linux?

It doesn't, not exclusively. Trolls troll, that's all they're good for.

> 
> Why is there so much mis-information and lies in COLA? An example is
> the current Ford moves to Linux thread.

The lies are usually told by trolls, to stir up trouble. 

> 
> Why do Linux browsers still stink and why are Linux users so concerned
> with standards and blaming Microsoft for the solid fact that the Linux
> browsers do not render sites as well as Internet Explorer does?

Linux browsers don't stink, in my opinion. I've seldom if ever had a problem
with sites which stick to the correct standards, when using Mozilla and
others.

> Internet Explorer *IS* the standard and that is why website designers
> make certain that their code works with Internet Explorer.
> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!

Thn they are stupid. IE is not the only browser for Windows, and Windows is
not the only operating system used by people surfing the web. The proportion
of others may be fairly small, but that is no reason to lock them out. 

> 
> Why do Linux users constantly whine about Microsoft stealing and
> copying technology yet deny that kde and gnome are looking more like
> Windows every day?

You are beginning to sound like DFS. And equally tediously. Gnome and KDE
aren't the whole of Gnu/Linux. Nor are they really all that Windows-like,
any more than the standard Mac environment is. On a flat, two-dimensional
screen, there are only so many ways a menu can display its contents. 

> 
> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial and the xfree
> how-to when superior tools exist?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If a simple tool will accomplish the task,
there's nothing wrong in using it. Even outdated tools may have their place
- a while back I had to use wvdial to get a connection on dial-up while my
brother helped me troubleshoot a problem.

> 
> Why does Open Office still not support Word documents properly?

Haven't had any difficulties with the ones I've tried. Maybe your Office
docs are badly formatted. And MS Office formats are kept pretty closed,
aren't they? 

> 
> If Linux is so good why do Linux users need wine?

Some, unfortunately, are locked into using Windows for a few tasks. Wine is
one way of accessing Windows apps without having to maintain a dual-boot.
But not all users will need or want it.

> 
> Why can I walk through MicroCenter and see hundreds of pre-configured
> systems, thousands of peripherals like video cards, CD-ROMs and so forth
> yet I can't find a single system that is offered with Linux?

Maybe you should ask Microsoft...

> 
> They even have an Apple section in the store with all the latest stuff
> and they are in the process of re-organizing because the iPod demand
> is so high they need more shelf space to display the stuff.

And your point is?

Personally, I've rarely seen a Mac on sale anywhere. Though I have seen a
couple of Mac laptops. Very nice-looking they were too, but horrendously
expensive. Maybe if I win the lottery <some hopes! more chance of being hit
by an asteroid, so they tell me>

> 
> I was just in there today in the Atlanta store and Linux can only be
> located in the book dept.
> 
> Face the truth linux nuts, Linux is totally and completely irrelevant
> to us common desktop users.

You are irrelevant to we linux users, who have no desire to be common. We
use the system we like and enjoy.

> 
> Linux has not even made a ding in the desktop market.
> Your group COLA is old, stale, redundent and full of technically inept
> wingnuts that are a half a keg low and wrapped way too tight.

So why do you remain here? Go back to your troll-infested windows group.

> 
> Linux isn't just dead as a desktop system, it truly wants to be put
> out of its confused, embarrassing misery.

You merely show your ignorance with that foolish remark.
 
> 
> They shoot horses don't they?
> Somebody pull the plug before rigormortis sets in on Linux.

You're so lame you aren't even amusing.

-- 
Kier

Xomicron wrote:
> Nobody can tell.

Ask your friends at Microsoft,
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+behind+$12+million+payment+t
+Opera/2100-1032_3-5218163.html?tag=macintouch

> Xomicron wrote:
> 
> Why do Linux users suggest outdated methods like wvdial 
and the xfree
> how-to when superior tools exist?
>

XombieCrotch trolls again!

Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<OXW7C$hTEHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
> After 10 years why does Microsoft still control at least 90% of the
> desktop market?

Software support and hardware support. I'd dump XP for Linux this
afternoon if Linux could run all my software and if the hardware would
all work.

> Why do Linux browsers still stink

Uh, they don't. I dumped IE a year or more back for Mozilla and hate
having to go back to IE for the few sites that refuse to use standard
HTML that works with all browsers. I don't understand why anyone still
uses IE at all, with all the security holes and popup ads.

> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!

If they don't care, then they're idiots. The sad thing is that the
management don't understand enough about the technology to realise
when their web developers are idiots.

> Linux isn't just dead as a desktop system, it truly wants to be put
> out of its confused, embarrassing misery.

LOL... I'm not sure whether you're a troll or just a VMS-- user who's
desperate to believe that Windows isn't facing a major threat from
Linux. For the things that the average low-end user does (email, web
browsing, word processing on standard low-end hardware) Linux is
probably a better OS than Windows these days, and available to anyone
for just the cost of a few blank CDs.

    Mark

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 04:15:15 -0700, Mark wrote:

> Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<OXW7C$hTEHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
>> After 10 years why does Microsoft still control at least 90% of the
>> desktop market?
> 
> Software support and hardware support. I'd dump XP for Linux this
> afternoon if Linux could run all my software and if the hardware would
> all work.
> 
>> Why do Linux browsers still stink
> 
> Uh, they don't. I dumped IE a year or more back for Mozilla and hate
> having to go back to IE for the few sites that refuse to use standard
> HTML that works with all browsers. I don't understand why anyone still
> uses IE at all, with all the security holes and popup ads.
> 
>> Do you think anyone cares if their site works with Konqueror, or
>> Galeon or any of the other shit Linux browsers? Of course not!
> 
> If they don't care, then they're idiots. The sad thing is that the
> management don't understand enough about the technology to realise
> when their web developers are idiots.
> 
>> Linux isn't just dead as a desktop system, it truly wants to be put
>> out of its confused, embarrassing misery.
> 
> LOL... I'm not sure whether you're a troll or just a VMS-- user who's
> desperate to believe that Windows isn't facing a major threat from
> Linux. For the things that the average low-end user does (email, web
> browsing, word processing on standard low-end hardware) Linux is
> probably a better OS than Windows these days, and available to anyone
> for just the cost of a few blank CDs.
> 
>     Mark

Well, the average Windows user who attempts to download and 
then configure Linux might be dismayed, to say the least.  The
browsers have to be messed with just to get plugins to work, 
for example.

The (nominally expensive) boxed sets one can purchase from the
Linux outfits directly are the way to go for newbies, imo, 
because everything is ready to go;  not much in the way of
configuration except what one needs to personalize their OS.

I've been doing it both ways for a while, now.. I love the
learning experience of working with the download versions, 
but have bought the SuSE 9.0 boxed set, just to see the
difference, and there is a big difference, for me, anyway.

But these big, hysterical put-downs of Linux that we see in
posts on usenet just tell me that it's a user who didn't
like to do the work that may have been needed to get things
up and running like they might have had it in XP or whatever.
Or maybe they just couldn't figure it out;  I've been there
(still trying to get good streaming video/audio at foxnews.com,
for example, *without* pulling down literally 90% of my cpu).

    -- Nonny

          -- Nonny

Mark wrote:
> [snip]
>
> LOL... I'm not sure whether you're a troll or just a VMS-- user who's
> desperate to believe that Windows isn't facing a major threat from
> Linux. For the things that the average low-end user does (email, web
> browsing, word processing on standard low-end hardware) Linux is
> probably a better OS than Windows these days, and available to anyone
> for just the cost of a few blank CDs.
> 
>     Mark

The price of a few blank CDs? You're paying that much? Just boot off 
your floppy/network/boot-partition, and you can install from the 
downloaded image.

And with the money you'll save, you could...you could...uh...buy candy?

Nonny Moose <webmaster@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.06.11.13.32.01.947978@microsoft.com>...
> The
> browsers have to be messed with just to get plugins to work, 
> for example.

Well, I can't think of a single plug-in that I really want. Flash is
almost entirely used for 'style over content' sites and stupid
animated ads, Quicktime sucks and I always end up downloading the file
to watch seperately since the Quicktime player is slightly less
retarded than the plugin, and, uh... actually I think those are the
only two plugins I have installed on Windows.

    Mark

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:10:20 -0700, Mark wrote:

> Nonny Moose <webmaster@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.06.11.13.32.01.947978@microsoft.com>...
>> The
>> browsers have to be messed with just to get plugins to work, 
>> for example.
> 
> Well, I can't think of a single plug-in that I really want. Flash is
> almost entirely used for 'style over content' sites and stupid
> animated ads, Quicktime sucks and I always end up downloading the file
> to watch seperately since the Quicktime player is slightly less
> retarded than the plugin, and, uh... actually I think those are the
> only two plugins I have installed on Windows.
> 
>     Mark

But that doesn't change the fact that Linux browsers have to be messed
with just to get simple plugins to work.
Windows IE works with all of them.
Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers?
I think not.
SWAMPSTER

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:

> Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think not.
> SWAMPSTER

So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" windows and leave linux
newsgroups out of that.

steph wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:
>
>> Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think
>> not. SWAMPSTER
>
> So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" windows and leave linux
> newsgroups out of that.

So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" linux and leave windows
newsgroups out, you fuckwitted trollop?


-- 
Kadaitcha Man: Registered Linux User #344402
Akhenaten: Registered Linux Machine #235500
gentoo SMP Linux kernel 2.6.6 <-- rolled my own

Kadaitcha Man wrote:


> So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" linux and leave windows
> newsgroups out, you fuckwitted trollop?

and miss a chance to educate the /unwashed/ ?

why ?


-- 
w:04

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:32:46 +0000, Kadaitcha Man wrote:

> steph wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:
>>
>>> Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think
>>> not. SWAMPSTER
>>
>> So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" windows and leave linux
>> newsgroups out of that.
> 
> So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" linux and leave windows
> newsgroups out, you fuckwitted trollop?

Because the idiot who is trolling linux newsgroups doesn't probably read
them.

Swampee <swampee@florida.org> wrote in message news:<2iumu8Fs2k5hU2@uni-berlin.de>...
> But that doesn't change the fact that Linux browsers have to be messed
> with just to get simple plugins to work.

Which plugins are actually beneficial to the average user? At work
I've deliverately avoided installing _any_ plugins because of the
annoying ways that marketing scum use them.

> Windows IE works with all of them.

That's why the 'IE experience' is full of pointless Flash ads, popup
windows, spyware and other annoyances. And I particularly love that
bloody dialog box that comes up every single time I go to some
retarded Flash ad site telling me that 'it might not be displaying
correctly because I don't have the right plugin'... Gee, you'd think
that by the thousandth time I've got that message I might know already
and not need to be told again.

That, of course, is a good example of one of the main reasons for
preferring Linux over Windows. Windows assumes that the user is an
idiot, and doesn't even have a box I can tick to take it out of
'Stupid Mode', whereas Linux generally assumes that the user has an IQ
of at least 50.

    Mark

Kadaitcha Man spurted/dribbled:
> steph wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think
>>>not. SWAMPSTER
>>
>>So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" windows and leave linux
>>newsgroups out of that.
> 
> 
> So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" linux and leave windows
> newsgroups out, you fuckwitted trollop?

as a woman, I object to the term "fuckwitted trollop".  I know several
women, who while for all intents and purposes ARE Trollops, none of them
are fuckwitted, and you would be very surprised, that in fact they are
both very intelligent, more so than most men.

Now much my fucking Rug.
-- 
Frau Himmel
Still trying to outrun the death grip clutches of The Strangler

much  ?? please explain 

Frau Himmel wrote:
> 
> Kadaitcha Man spurted/dribbled:
> > steph wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think
> >>>not. SWAMPSTER
> >>
> >>So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" windows and leave linux
> >>newsgroups out of that.
> >
> >
> > So why don't you stick with your "wonderful" linux and leave windows
> > newsgroups out, you fuckwitted trollop?
> 
> as a woman, I object to the term "fuckwitted trollop".  I know several
> women, who while for all intents and purposes ARE Trollops, none of them
> are fuckwitted, and you would be very surprised, that in fact they are
> both very intelligent, more so than most men.
> 
> Now much my fucking Rug.
> --
> Frau Himmel
> Still trying to outrun the death grip clutches of The Strangler

-- 
X-No-Archive: Yes

 Frau Himmel  spewed out this bit, and i'll scatter some bits :

> Now much my fucking Rug.

Was that an invite to eat your nasty arse, hairy arse, festered up cunt ?

-- 
Mhzjunkie

Programmer: alt.os.windows-xp
1 PRINT "Windows XP ERROR"
GOTO 1
END

was that supposed to be "munch" ???

-- 
YFIO
Z�RiX  (<>..<>)




">
> Now much my fucking Rug.
> -- 
> Frau Himmel
> Still trying to outrun the death grip clutches of The Strangler
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Oy! Listen to atec's latest shpiel, fixed so as not to top-post.
>> Now much my fucking Rug.
>
> much  ?? please explain

Obviously, she wants too see more of William Shatner.

- -- 
mark allen adams, jr.
usenet (at) mark (hyphen) adams (dot) com
fix the email address to reply

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On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:10:20 -0700, Mark wrote:
> 
>> Nonny Moose <webmaster@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:<pan.2004.06.11.13.32.01.947978@microsoft.com>...
>>> The
>>> browsers have to be messed with just to get plugins to work, for
>>> example.
>> 
>> Well, I can't think of a single plug-in that I really want. Flash is
>> almost entirely used for 'style over content' sites and stupid animated
>> ads, Quicktime sucks and I always end up downloading the file to watch
>> seperately since the Quicktime player is slightly less retarded than the
>> plugin, and, uh... actually I think those are the only two plugins I
>> have installed on Windows.
>> 
>>     Mark
> 
> But that doesn't change the fact that Linux browsers have to be messed
> with just to get simple plugins to work. Windows IE works with all of
> them.
> Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think not.
> SWAMPSTER

Mozilla Plugin list:

Java(TM) Plug-in 1.4.2_04-b05
Kaffeine Starter Plugin
gxine starter plugin
Default Plugin
Shockwave Flash
DjVuLibre-3.5.13
MozPlugger 1.5.2

PS. I didn't have to CONFIGURE any of these and they all work!!

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:26:15 +1000, KenSol wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:14 -0400, Swampee wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:10:20 -0700, Mark wrote:
>> 
>>> Nonny Moose <webmaster@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:<pan.2004.06.11.13.32.01.947978@microsoft.com>...
>>>> The
>>>> browsers have to be messed with just to get plugins to work, for
>>>> example.
>>> 
>>> Well, I can't think of a single plug-in that I really want. Flash is
>>> almost entirely used for 'style over content' sites and stupid animated
>>> ads, Quicktime sucks and I always end up downloading the file to watch
>>> seperately since the Quicktime player is slightly less retarded than the
>>> plugin, and, uh... actually I think those are the only two plugins I
>>> have installed on Windows.
>>> 
>>>     Mark
>> 
>> But that doesn't change the fact that Linux browsers have to be messed
>> with just to get simple plugins to work. Windows IE works with all of
>> them.
>> Does Linux and it's sorry assed collection of shit browsers? I think not.
>> SWAMPSTER
> 
> Mozilla Plugin list:
> 
> Java(TM) Plug-in 1.4.2_04-b05
> Kaffeine Starter Plugin
> gxine starter plugin
> Default Plugin
> Shockwave Flash
> DjVuLibre-3.5.13
> MozPlugger 1.5.2
> 
> PS. I didn't have to CONFIGURE any of these and they all work!!

Well here are mine, and like you I didn't have to do anything:

application/x-java-vm 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1.3 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.2.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.2.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.3 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.3.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.4 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.4.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.4.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;jpi-version=1.4.2_03 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1.3 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.2.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.2.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.3 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.3.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.4 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.4.1 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.4.2 	Java 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;jpi-version=1.4.2_03 	Java 		Yes
MozPlugger 1.5.1

    File name: mozplugger.so
    MozPlugger version 1.5.1, written by Fredrik H�binette <hubbe@hubbe.net> and Louis Bavoil <louis@bavoil.net>.
    For documentation on how to configure mozplugger, check the man page. (type man mozplugger)

MIME Type 	Description 	Suffixes 	Enabled
video/mpeg 	MPEG animation 	mpeg, mpg, mpe 	Yes
video/x-mpeg 	MPEG animation 	mpeg, mpg, mpe 	Yes
video/x-mpeg2 	MPEG2 animation 	mpv2, mp2ve 	Yes
video/msvideo 	AVI animation 	avi 	Yes
video/x-msvideo 	AVI animation 	avi 	Yes
video/fli 	FLI animation 	fli, flc 	Yes
video/x-fli 	FLI animation 	fli, flc 	Yes
application/x-mplayer2 	Windows Media 	wmv,asf,mov 	Yes
video/x-ms-asf 	Windows Media 	asf,asx,wma,wax,wmv,wvx 	Yes
video/x-ms-wmv 	Windows Media 	wmv 	Yes
image/x-macpaint 	Quicktime animation 	pntg,mov 	Yes
video/quicktime 	Quicktime animation 	mov,qt 	Yes
video/x-quicktime 	Quicktime animation 	mov,qt 	Yes
video/dl 	DL animation 	dl 	Yes
video/x-dl 	DL animation 	dl 	Yes
video/sgi-movie 	SGI animation 	movie,movi,mv 	Yes
video/x-sgi-movie 	SGI animation 	movie,movi,mv 	Yes
video/anim 	IFF animation 	iff,anim5,anim3,anim7 	Yes
video/x-anim 	IFF animation 	iff,anim5,anim3,anim7 	Yes
audio/mid 	MIDI audio file 	midi,mid 	Yes
audio/x-mid 	MIDI audio file 	midi,mid 	Yes
audio/midi 	MIDI audio file 	midi,mid 	Yes
audio/x-midi 	MIDI audio file 	midi,mid 	Yes
audio/mp3 	MPEG audio 	mp3 	Yes
audio/x-mp3 	MPEG audio 	mp3 	Yes
audio/mpeg2 	MPEG audio 	mp2 	Yes
audio/x-mpeg2 	MPEG audio 	mp2 	Yes
audio/mpeg3 	MPEG audio 	mp3 	Yes
audio/x-mpeg3 	MPEG audio 	mp3 	Yes
audio/mpeg 	MPEG audio 	mpa,abs,mpega 	Yes
audio/x-mpeg 	MPEG audio 	mpa,abs,mpega 	Yes
audio/mpeg-url 	MPEG music resource locator 	m3u 	Yes
audio/x-mpeg-url 	MPEG music resource locator 	m3u 	Yes
audio/mpegurl 	MPEG music resource locator 	m3u 	Yes
audio/x-mpegurl 	MPEG music resource locator 	m3u 	Yes
audio/x-ogg 	OGG audio 	ogg 	Yes
audio/x-scpls 	OGG audio 	pls 	Yes
application/x-ogg 	OGG audio 	ogg 	Yes
application/ogg 	OGG audio 	ogg 	Yes
audio/basic 	Basic audio file 	au,snd 	Yes
audio/x-basic 	Basic audio file 	au,snd 	Yes
audio/wav 	Microsoft wave file 	wav 	Yes
audio/x-wav 	Microsoft wave file 	wav 	Yes
image/sun-raster 	SUN raster image 	rs 	Yes
image/x-sun-raster 	SUN raster image 	rs 	Yes
image/x-rgb 	RGB Image 	rgb 	Yes
image/x-portable-pixmap 	PPM Image 	ppm 	Yes
image/x-portable-graymap 	PGM Image 	pgm 	Yes
image/x-portable-bitmap 	PBM Image 	pbm 	Yes
image/x-portable-anymap 	PBM Image 	pnm 	Yes
image/tiff 	TIFF image 	tiff,tif 	Yes
image/x-tiff 	TIFF image 	tiff,tif 	Yes
Default Plugin

    File name: libnullplugin.so
    The default plugin handles plugin data for mimetypes and extensions that are not specified and facilitates downloading of new plugins.

MIME Type 	Description 	Suffixes 	Enabled
* 	All types 	.* 	Yes
Shockwave Flash

    File name: libflashplayer.so
    Shockwave Flash 6.0 r81

MIME Type 	Description 	Suffixes 	Enabled
application/x-shockwave-flash 	Shockwave Flash 	swf 	Yes
application/futuresplash 	FutureSplash Player 	spl 	Yes
nppdf.so

    File name: nppdf.so

MIME Type 	Description 	Suffixes 	Enabled
application/pdf 	Portable Document Format 	pdf 	Yes
RealPlayer(tm) 8.0 Plug-In

    File name: rpnp.so
    RealPlayer(tm) 8.0 LiveConnect-Enabled Plug-In

MIME Type 	Description 	Suffixes 	Enabled
audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin 	RealPlayer Plugin Metafile


I haven't had any troubles yet.
Maybe I need some good porn site to *screw* things up :) :)

-- 
Patricia Fitzhenry
Remove DEL to reply
Registered Linux user #358464

KenSol wrote:

KenSol? Is that a brand name for alcohol based anal wipes?

Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Patricia:

> I haven't had any troubles yet.
> Maybe I need some good porn site to *screw* things up :) :)

I didn't know the gentle gender went to porn sites.

-- 
Free as in freedom