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X86 or PowerPc

I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
�a�AthlonXP�3000+�or�a�PowerPC�(PowerMac�G4�or�pegasos).

�VP
0
10/6/2004 12:52:45 AM
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On 2004-10-05 20:52:45 -0400, VP <vpedro.pias@sapo.pt> said:

> I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
>  a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
> 
>  VP

I know you've gotten your response in c.o.l.hardware, but as a Mac user 
I'll ask you to make your discussion based on what you use now.  I'll 
just throw to pennies in your direction...

(1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware 
is quite different from "standard" PC hardware.

(2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill 
-- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et 
al... We don't even have Fedora!  On the other hand, we've got Yellow 
Dog and Darwin.

To sum it up, and heresy be damned - Unless you need to develop for ppc 
Linux, stick with an x86 box.

0
NeoAmsterdam
10/6/2004 1:50:09 AM
But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on Mac 
hardware. ;-)

"NeoAmsterdam" <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5> wrote in message 
news:2004100521500975249%E290A5@E290A5E290A5...
> On 2004-10-05 20:52:45 -0400, VP <vpedro.pias@sapo.pt> said:
>
>> I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
>> a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
>>
>> VP
>
> I know you've gotten your response in c.o.l.hardware, but as a Mac user 
> I'll ask you to make your discussion based on what you use now.  I'll just 
> throw to pennies in your direction...
>
> (1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware is 
> quite different from "standard" PC hardware.
>
> (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill --  
> ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et al... We 
> don't even have Fedora!  On the other hand, we've got Yellow Dog and 
> Darwin.
>
> To sum it up, and heresy be damned - Unless you need to develop for ppc 
> Linux, stick with an x86 box.
> 


0
jcortel (24)
10/6/2004 1:53:13 AM
"Jon Cortelyou" <jcortel@notsxpamno.hotmail.com> writes:

> But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on Mac 
> hardware. ;-)

If the Mac hardware is given, then yes it's cool to make it usable
with linux.

But if you are to buy new hardware it's silly.  There's no specs and
no drivers for some devices integrated into Apple hardware, and other
PPC motherboards look way too expensive.  And about performace, I'm
yet to see a PPC system compiling faster than AMD / PC system...


-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/

To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.
0
spam200 (1672)
10/6/2004 3:33:30 AM
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On 2004-10-06, NeoAmsterdam <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5> wrote:

> (1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware 
> is quite different from "standard" PC hardware.

It's not all that different, really.  The primary stumbling block,
for me, at least, was booting the OS--getting quik to boot my OldWorld
box was a horrible nightmare.  Configuring yaboot was easier, but
not always consistent.  But the hardware was pretty easy to deal with.
The most difficult part is determining which kernel options correspond
to which hardware.

> (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill 
> -- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et 
> al... We don't even have Fedora!  On the other hand, we've got Yellow 
> Dog and Darwin.

Does Darwin count as a linux?

It's true that there are significantly fewer linux-ppc distros
available.  YDL is still generally behind the corresponding RH/Fedora
release.  If you're familiar with Debian then they have a ppc port,
but if you're familiar with Debian why bother with ppc hardware?

One other consideration: if the OP needs a ''user-friendly'' OS
to dual-boot with while learning linux, certainly the OS available
on ppc is much better than that for x86.  :)

- --keith

- -- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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0
10/6/2004 5:46:20 AM
VP wrote:
> I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
>  a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
> 
I bought an iBook G4 for a Linux machine. That was a mistake. Linux 
installs there, it runs, even X works, but still it is crippled for the 
use I need it or as a lecture folder: no dual display to projector, no 
WiFi. However, I have learnt to live with MacOS X. It does have a bash 
shell, you can get real GNU Emacs (not the no-X version that comes with 
Mac), LaTeX environment is even better than in Linux, most free software 
I use works similarly, pdf slides that I make in Linux look great in 
Mac.  Normally I don't boot to Linux, but I'll give Yellow Dog still one 
chance before removing all traces of Linux and liberating some hard disk 
for MacOS X. In general, the Mac environment can be made so similar to 
Linux that I can usually continue my Linux work in Mac while travelling, 
and even feel cosy (bash! emacs!). However, it is better to stick to x86 
if you want to have a Linux box.

cheers, jari oksanen
-- 
Jari Oksanen -- Oulu, Finland

0
jarioksa (5)
10/6/2004 9:49:40 AM
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:52:45 +0100, VP <vpedro.pias@sapo.pt> wrote in
<416341de$0$18166$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>:

> I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
> �a�AthlonXP�3000+�or�a�PowerPC�(PowerMac�G4�or�pegasos).

Well, on a new Mac you get OS X which is as good as Linux anyway. Linux on
PPC is a bit troublesome, as mentioned. Mainly, it's way behind the x86
equivalents. On the other hand, recently the Fedora-based Yellow Dog and
Debian based Ubuntu came out, and they're two excellent and up to date
distributions.

-- 
Kind regards,

Michel Klijmij
ICQ/MSN in headers    http://michel.klijmij.net/

0
spam7846 (46)
10/6/2004 11:46:59 AM
Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> writes:
> Does Darwin count as a linux?

No. Darwin counts as 4.4 BSD on a Mach  kernel.
     Linux counts as   a GNU on a Linux kernel. 

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/

To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.
0
spam200 (1672)
10/6/2004 5:23:36 PM
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:50:09 GMT,
NeoAmsterdam <%E2%90%A5@%E2%90%A5.%E2%90%A5>, in
<2004100521500975249%E290A5@E290A5E290A5> wrote:

>+ (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill 
>+ -- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian,

Ummm...I suspect that the Debian PPC folks would be surprised to hear
that...

James
-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
0
hfrarg2 (73)
10/12/2004 12:26:54 PM
Ludovic De Grave wrote:

> 
> PC is really cheaper than a ppc machine .... that the only negative point
> I can see on the board ...\

Not every PPC machine is a cakewalk to install.  I seem to have a lousy time
finding Video drivers (or the proper configuration) for many older
Macintosh Models/monitors and sound is an issue on some as well.  (though I
have better luck on X86, I am currently suffering with an audio problem
there, but community support for my ills seems a lot better).  On the MacOS
side don't expect to plug in ANY drive or gizmo in and expect to get it to
work either (i.e. DVD recorders, etc.)
Piper
No parallel or serial ports the Macs either, limits the stuff you can plug
into your machine.

If you don't have an overwhelming desire o dual boot OSX or run PPC based
code I think X86 would save you a bit of grief and frustration.

Reading on forums and such many of the Unix/Linux crowd have moved to Mac OS
X because it's just as Unixy with all the support of a commercial OS and
using utilities such as Fink they port over the PPC Linux stuff they
desire.  So I (IMHO) would do OSX on PPC and if I was going "straight
Linux", I'd go the X86 route and avoid the PPC schizophrenia.

Larry
-- 
   01000011 01001100 01000001 01010011 01010011 01001001 01000011
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS  (209) 754-1363  300-14.4k
   Set your 8-bit rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/
   01010001 01010101 01000001 01001100 01001001 01010100 01011001
0
larry507 (317)
3/28/2005 2:56:12 PM
Ok I'have a Athlon XP 2500 + Barton with XP, and linux Fedora Core 2 on
seconde boot point ... It's great ...

But I just bought a pegasos II machine to try the MorphOS system and the
YellowDogLinux system.  I installed them perfectly and they are working fine
too ...

For the moment.  I don't have any problem to tell that all the architectures
are good anough for linux ... but it depends of the money you will spend to
....

PC is really cheaper than a ppc machine .... that the only negative point I
can see on the board ...

so ....

ludovic.degrave@free.fr

"VP" <vpedro.pias@sapo.pt> a �crit dans le message de news:
416341de$0$18166$a729d347@news.telepac.pt...
> I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
> a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
>
> VP


0
3/28/2005 9:34:01 PM
On 2005-03-28, Larry Anderson <larry@portcommodore.com> wrote:

> Not every PPC machine is a cakewalk to install.  I seem to have a lousy time
> finding Video drivers (or the proper configuration) for many older
> Macintosh Models/monitors and sound is an issue on some as well.

The OP was looking to buy a new computer, so getting linux/ppc to
work on older Apple hardware isn't an issue.  Of course getting linux
onto an older Apple is going to be more difficult--not all of the
hardware specs were open, booting the older Open Firmwares was a
Nightmare of Depravity (TM), and newer linux distros, reasonably
enough, focus on newer hardware.

> No parallel or serial ports the Macs either, limits the stuff you can plug
> into your machine.

If you have these devices.  Most new devices nowadays are USB or
Firewire, and adapters for parallel and serial devices are readily
available (though not always cheap).

> Reading on forums and such many of the Unix/Linux crowd have moved to Mac OS
> X because it's just as Unixy with all the support of a commercial OS and
> using utilities such as Fink they port over the PPC Linux stuff they
> desire.  So I (IMHO) would do OSX on PPC and if I was going "straight
> Linux", I'd go the X86 route and avoid the PPC schizophrenia.

It is hardly split-personality.  OS X can be such a dog compared to
linux/ppc.  I run linux on my iBook, and it is sluggish a lot less
often than OS X used to be.  It even behaves reasonably well with
OS X running in Mac-on-Linux (though don't expect miracles).

And let's not use the ''commercial support'' argument!  By that
argument, you'd be running Windows on your x86 hardware.  Or Solaris.

--keith

-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
see X- headers for PGP signature information

0
3/29/2005 5:04:52 AM
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I need a PPC emulator. Something like Virtual PC, but which provides a virtual PowerPC, not x86. The reason is that I run OS X and want to experiment with the OpenDarwin system, but I don't want to dual boot between systems. Is anyone able to help with some info, please? Alistair In article <8811f961.0410210733.4c34df6b@posting.google.com>, alistair_happencross@hotmail.com (Alistair Happencross) wrote: > I need a PPC emulator. Something like Virtual PC, but which provides a > virtual PowerPC, not x86. The reason is that I run OS X and want to > experiment with the OpenD...

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Does anyone know if there are tools/utilities available to do performance measurements for applications running under Linux on a PowerPC? Thanks, Chris van Engelen AimSys BV Hilversum, The Netherlands e-mail: c-v-engelen-@-aim-sys.nl (remove the dashes) "Chris van Engelen" <chris.van.engelen@freeler.nl> writes: > Does anyone know if there are tools/utilities available to do > performance measurements for applications running under > Linux on a PowerPC? Don't know about applications, but for a general assessment of machine performance you can use nbench. -- Stefano | Department of Psychology, University of Bologna Ghirlanda | Interdisciplinary cultural research, Stockholm University http://www.intercult.su.se/~stefano ...

The ultimate Linux PowerPC advocacy
<http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/news/2003-06-24.shtml> > As an Apple Authorized Reseller, Terra Soft is now receiving > pre-orders for Apple G5s. When the units are made available, Terra > Soft will prepare the drive with a partition for Yellow Dog Linux > and install Mac OS X. With the G5, Terra Soft's customer will > receive the current Yellow Dog Linux CDs, 280-page "Getting > Started" book, sticker, and T-shirt. The updated Install CDs will > be shipped at no additional charge when the G5s are supported. In > addition, those who pre-order now will receive free installation > support. YDL G5s cost the same as those sold by the online Apple Store. So you'll get the goodies for no extra charge. Hard disks are vast these days, there's plenty of room for Linux and OS X. Terra Soft will install both. > To pre-order an Apple G5, visit Terra Soft's on-line Store. <http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/purchase.php> > Terra Soft anticipates Yellow Dog Linux support for G5 by the > close of August. YDL deserves applause. But it's important to remember that Linux also gives older machines new life. So projects like Debian GNU/Linux PPC are worthy of support. <http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/> -- links <http://www.well.com/user/silly/hcc5.html> silly@well.com > Hard disks are vast these days, there's plenty of room for Linux > and OS X. Terra Soft will ins...

powerPC linux boot sequence
Any can help me to find the boot sequence of powerPC 83xx of linux kernel after the bootloader transfer control to kernel.. Please please help me.... thanks, Nabendu Nabendu wrote: > Any can help me to find the boot sequence of powerPC 83xx of linux > kernel after the bootloader transfer control to kernel.. Look in this area: arch/powerpc/platforms/83xx -- Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918 5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460 Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144 http://mnmoran.org "So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we ...

Softmodem development on PowerPC under LINUX.
Dear all, I am new to SoftModem and PowerPC. My task was to develop a soft modem for a powerPC under Linux environment. In my view, a soft modem simulates the job of the hardware, which actually resides in traditional modem. That means the CPU has to take the burden of doing all the DSP stuff additionally in softmodem. For efficiency purpose I want to write the above DSP in PowerPC assembly and want to integrate this code in Linux. Can I do this? Is there any free source code already available? What in general people do to develop a softmodem. They code in assembly or C? ...

Linux for custom PowerPC board?
Can anyone suggest a Linux project that might not be too painful to get booted on a custom PowerPC (MPC855T or IBM405GPr) board? I have 1MB of FLASH and 64 to 512MB of SDRAM. Thanks. -- - Mark -> -- "Mark A. Odell" <nospam@embeddedfw.com> writes: >Can anyone suggest a Linux project that might not be too painful to get >booted on a custom PowerPC (MPC855T or IBM405GPr) board? I have 1MB of >FLASH and 64 to 512MB of SDRAM. Maybe the ELDK? See http://www.denx.de/twiki/bin/view/DULG/Manual Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- Software Enginee...

Linux powerPC smtp issue
Hi All, I have a code with cpp files and headers and I have a make file that was created for the project. I'm doing the MAKE on linux and everything works - when I use telnet to the controller that uses linux with a Power PC cpu I move to the folder and when I write down MAKE nothing happens. I was wondering how can I use this to work from intel cpu to ppc cpu? and I tried to work with CodeBlock adn I could not do a thing since the power pc cpp or gcc was not installed. Where can I find the files? are they free? Please help me out - all I want to do is to be able to send a mail from a controller - what can be simple then that :) but with no luck : ( Can some one help me with this - is there a simple smtp client that works on linux wnd PowerPC computers?? thanks On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 05:44:50 -0700 (PDT), Arye C# <arye.csharp@gmail.com>, in <5c2d0a57-0c6f-49e4-a1d2-55e427a8a8d3@i13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> wrote: > Can some one help me with this - is there a simple smtp client that > works on linux wnd PowerPC computers?? Yes, several. Take a look at: http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=lenny&arch=powerpc&searchon=names&keywords=smtp Sorting down for you (a lot of libraries, too, dealing with SMTP): esmtp - User configurable relay-only MTA msmtp - light SMTP client with support for server profiles ssmtp - extremely simple MTA to get mail off the system to a mail hub Do you have a full blown SMTP server? -- Consulting Minister...

Web resources about - X86 or PowerPc - comp.os.linux.powerpc

PowerPC G4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PowerPC G4 is a designation used by Apple Computer to describe a fourth generation of 32-bit PowerPC microprocessors . Apple has applied this ...

Defections to ARM hurt PowerPC, MIPS
The PowerPC is best known for powering old Mac computers, while MIPS processors were in the first PlayStation, NASA's New Horizons spacecraft ...

Latest Snow Leopard security update breaks popular PowerPC apps like Quicken
As part of the Mac OS X 10.7.3 update released earlier this week, Security Update 2012-001 [release notes] for Snow Leopard broke compatibility ...

Apple and IBM Introduce the PowerPC G5 Processor
WWDC 2003, San Francisco—June 23, 2003—Apple® and IBM together today introduced the world’s first 64-bit desktop processor—the PowerPC G5. Based ...

P.A. Semi’s major PowerPC announcement, and looking back at The Switch - Ars Technica
P.A. Semi licenses PowerPC from IBM and does what Moto/Freescale could not. …

Firefox 3.6 likely the last for PowerPC Macs
... Read this article by Stephen Shankland on CNET News. The current version of Firefox will likely be the end of the road for people using PowerPC ...

Snow Leopard name all about appeasing PowerPC customers
Apple's Snow Leopard announcement was a bit of a surprise to many. Not just because the new OS isn't going to support PowerPC or that there weren't ...

Apple Drops iTunes, Old Software Updates for PowerPC Macs
iTunes icons through the years. PowerPC-based Macs have long been considered dead and buried by Apple, but the company just put a few more nails ...

AMCC drives to high end of embedded PowerPC market
... drive the company into high-end embedded markets. SAN JOSE, Calif. Applied Micro Circuits Corp. (Sunnyvale, Calif.) debuts today a new PowerPC ...

Snow Leopard to drop PowerPC support?
PowerPC users, your days could be numbered. According to an alleged screenshot of Snow Leopard's system requirements, only Intel CPUs will get ...

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