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32 Bit or 64 Bit OS?

At first I thought if I had 64 bit hardware the best server performance 
would be had with 64 bit operating system. Now I am not sure because I 
have read about far greater memory usage for the same task on a 64 bit 
OS. I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32 bit or 64 bit OS in my 
situation.

The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.
The OS will be a guest of XenServer.
The website will be run by Drupal which requires the execution of lot of 
PHP code and several database queries for each web page served.
Memcached, XCache and Fast CGI will be in use. The server will be Lighttp.
If 32 bit the OS will probably be Debian Lenny.

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part of my email address. It is a spam jammer.
0
Artist
3/11/2010 9:29:54 PM
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> I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32 bit or 64 bit OS in my
> situation.
>
> The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
> The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.
> The OS will be a guest of XenServer.

Ask the hosting service which one they prefer, or which one most of the
other clients are using.

-- 


0
John
3/12/2010 4:39:10 AM
On 03/11/2010 04:29 PM, Artist wrote:
> At first I thought if I had 64 bit hardware the best server performance
> would be had with 64 bit operating system. Now I am not sure because I
> have read about far greater memory usage for the same task on a 64 bit
> OS. I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32 bit or 64 bit OS in my
> situation.

> The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
> The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.
> The OS will be a guest of XenServer.
> The website will be run by Drupal which requires the execution of lot of
> PHP code and several database queries for each web page served.
> Memcached, XCache and Fast CGI will be in use. The server will be Lighttp.
> If 32 bit the OS will probably be Debian Lenny.

 From my limited experience on a single core and a quad core machine ...

	Absolute minimum for 32 bit is 512M RAM and 1G for 64 bit. So it appears to 
double as one would expect.

	My quad is not a server so it is not doing four identical high load tasks at 
the same time. Rather it is doing main plus threaded side-tasks so the load is 
not max. Which is my explanation for seeing incredibly more efficient 
execution on a four core 64 bit with 4GB which is what I found to be the 
minimum for a single core, 1GB per core.

	Beyond that it is reasonable to assume you currently have apps optimized for 
64 bits on that distribution rather than the old code run through a 64 bit 
compiler with a lick and a prayer. So I would ask if what you are serving will 
benefit from faster service as in a business office LAN or not much benefit at 
all if it is stuffing data down a pipe to the web which is limited by the 
downstream bandwidth. If the former then 64. If the latter then 32.

	I don't see the issue being the code executed but data being moved in 4 or 8 
byte chunks. The code should be trivial in bytes compared to the data it 
handles. My current experience in this is finding the worthless code around a 
newspaper article is growing something short of exponential but not that 
short. Just yesterday I dug the 7kB of actual news text out of 277K of crap 
captured and I blocked all graphics. By analogy only your 7kB should be unique 
and the rest cached by the software. You still have to stuff all of that down 
the pipe. 64bits per clock is faster than 32.

-- 
It does not matter what you say.
It only matters what I hear.
	-- The Iron Webmaster, 4245
  http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ Antisemitism a10
Fri Mar 12 03:22:42 EST 2010
0
Matt
3/12/2010 8:44:03 AM
Matt Giwer wrote:
> So I would ask if 
> what you are serving will benefit from faster service as in a business 
> office LAN or not much benefit at all if it is stuffing data down a pipe 
> to the web which is limited by the downstream bandwidth. If the former 
> then 64. If the latter then 32.
> 

It is going to the web.

-- 
If you desire to respond directly remove the "sj." from the domain name 
part of my email address. It is a spam jammer.
0
Artist
3/12/2010 9:51:31 PM
On 03/12/2010 04:51 PM, Artist wrote:
> Matt Giwer wrote:
>> So I would ask if what you are serving will benefit from faster
>> service as in a business office LAN or not much benefit at all if it
>> is stuffing data down a pipe to the web which is limited by the
>> downstream bandwidth. If the former then 64. If the latter then 32.

> It is going to the web.

	Again, I have limited experience and am a home user but for ten years and I 
experiment. I do have Apache running on one for the LAN but load is 
understandably modest. ;) I have been through the 8 to 16 to 32 and the 32 to 
64 appears to be roughly the same as the other transitions.

	I would go with 32 bit OS and use the RAM for additional instances of servers 
and see how it goes. Get Siege to stress test the result if you expect a lot 
of interest. If you are not in a hurry, stress test both and let us know which 
is better.

-- 
Zionism is the legal theory that Jews have a right
to quiet possession of stolen property.
	-- The Iron Webmaster, 4227
  http://www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml a16
  Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. a16
Fri Mar 12 22:36:13 EST 2010
0
Matt
3/13/2010 4:02:32 AM
Artist wrote:
> Matt Giwer wrote:
>> So I would ask if what you are serving will benefit from faster 
>> service as in a business office LAN or not much benefit at all if it 
>> is stuffing data down a pipe to the web which is limited by the 
>> downstream bandwidth. If the former then 64. If the latter then 32.
>>
> 
> It is going to the web.
> 
The reality is, that 32 bit wont hurt much at all.

Only if you are doing very complex database searches, or manipulation of 
large bitmaps, will CPU performance impact on anything.



0
The
3/13/2010 9:24:35 AM
Artist wrote:
>
> At first I thought if I had 64 bit hardware the best server performance 
> would be had with 64 bit operating system. Now I am not sure because I 
> have read about far greater memory usage for the same task on a 64 bit 
> OS. I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32 bit or 64 bit OS in my 
> situation.

Generally Moore's Law has led to servers with so much RAM the extra
memory usage is trivial.  You aren't on a server.

> The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
> The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.

My laptops had twice that much RAM many years ago.  You have a memory
choked machine compared to any server class box.  That says go with 32
bit because your situation is about dealing with the tiny memory not
about improving performance.
0
Doug
3/15/2010 8:21:06 PM
Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Artist wrote:
>> At first I thought if I had 64 bit hardware the best server performance 
>> would be had with 64 bit operating system. Now I am not sure because I 
>> have read about far greater memory usage for the same task on a 64 bit 
>> OS. I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32 bit or 64 bit OS in my 
>> situation.
> 
> Generally Moore's Law has led to servers with so much RAM the extra
> memory usage is trivial.  You aren't on a server.
> 
>> The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
>> The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.
> 
> My laptops had twice that much RAM many years ago.  You have a memory
> choked machine compared to any server class box.  That says go with 32
> bit because your situation is about dealing with the tiny memory not
> about improving performance.

I've got two Debian headless servers running on 512Mbyte..they are both 
on 32 bit currently.

Performance apart from graphics image manipulation is excellent.

CPU intensive tasks do choke them a fair bit, but RAM is not a major issue.

Only when rescaling VERY large bitmaps did one go swappy on me.

For a few users, this sort of RAM is entirely adequate: the killer is 
when you have 100 plus concurrent web server sessions, that's when you 
hot the memory limits.

So for low traffic sites, fine.
0
The
3/16/2010 10:36:55 AM
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>> Artist wrote:
>>> At first I thought if I had 64 bit hardware the best server
>>> performance would be had with 64 bit operating system. Now I am not
>>> sure because I have read about far greater memory usage for the same
>>> task on a 64 bit OS. I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32
>>> bit or 64 bit OS in my situation.
>>
>> Generally Moore's Law has led to servers with so much RAM the extra
>> memory usage is trivial. You aren't on a server.
>>
>>> The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
>>> The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.
>>
>> My laptops had twice that much RAM many years ago. You have a memory
>> choked machine compared to any server class box. That says go with 32
>> bit because your situation is about dealing with the tiny memory not
>> about improving performance.
>
> I've got two Debian headless servers running on 512Mbyte..they are both
> on 32 bit currently.
>
> Performance apart from graphics image manipulation is excellent.
>
> CPU intensive tasks do choke them a fair bit, but RAM is not a major issue.
>
> Only when rescaling VERY large bitmaps did one go swappy on me.
>
> For a few users, this sort of RAM is entirely adequate: the killer is
> when you have 100 plus concurrent web server sessions, that's when you
> hot the memory limits.
>
> So for low traffic sites, fine.

The website is expected to eventually have a lot of traffic. 100 plus is 
concurrent sessions is well within the realm of possibility.

-- 
To reply directly remove the sj. from my email address. This is a spam 
jammer.
0
Artist
3/17/2010 7:59:02 PM
Artist wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>>> Artist wrote:
>>>> At first I thought if I had 64 bit hardware the best server
>>>> performance would be had with 64 bit operating system. Now I am not
>>>> sure because I have read about far greater memory usage for the same
>>>> task on a 64 bit OS. I am seeking opinions on whether to have a 32
>>>> bit or 64 bit OS in my situation.
>>>
>>> Generally Moore's Law has led to servers with so much RAM the extra
>>> memory usage is trivial. You aren't on a server.
>>>
>>>> The Hardware is an Intel Xeon processor.
>>>> The server is a VPS with 512 MB allocated.
>>>
>>> My laptops had twice that much RAM many years ago. You have a memory
>>> choked machine compared to any server class box. That says go with 32
>>> bit because your situation is about dealing with the tiny memory not
>>> about improving performance.
>>
>> I've got two Debian headless servers running on 512Mbyte..they are both
>> on 32 bit currently.
>>
>> Performance apart from graphics image manipulation is excellent.
>>
>> CPU intensive tasks do choke them a fair bit, but RAM is not a major 
>> issue.
>>
>> Only when rescaling VERY large bitmaps did one go swappy on me.
>>
>> For a few users, this sort of RAM is entirely adequate: the killer is
>> when you have 100 plus concurrent web server sessions, that's when you
>> hot the memory limits.
>>
>> So for low traffic sites, fine.
> 
> The website is expected to eventually have a lot of traffic. 100 plus is 
> concurrent sessions is well within the realm of possibility.
> 

Well MOSTLY what concurrent sessions need is lots of RAM.

If you are heading to that level, it begs the question of whether you 
should be on a shared server at all.



0
The
3/18/2010 12:36:37 AM
in 10653 20100318 003637 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>If you are heading to that level, it begs the question of whether you
>should be on a shared server at all.

No, it doesn't  ;-)

http://begthequestion.info/
0
Bob
3/18/2010 7:29:04 AM
Bob Martin wrote:
> in 10653 20100318 003637 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> If you are heading to that level, it begs the question of whether you
>> should be on a shared server at all.
> 
> No, it doesn't  ;-)
> 
> http://begthequestion.info/
:-)

Ok, I'll allow that!
0
The
3/18/2010 10:07:18 AM
Reply:

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