http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview

Arnold

huh.  I guess there was a recent machine with sata and GbE and a
decent cpu/ram (tegra 2/1GB).  $200.  I'm still a little hesitant
about Nvidia, but to avoid further damaging relations with processor
designers I'll defer to Torvalds' statement on the matter from
Thursday in Finland.

-Nick

Sent from my N900 (RIP linux Nokia phones)

On 6/17/12, arnold@skeeve.com <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
> http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview
>
> Arnold
>
>

I have a tegra 2 and it's completely undocumented and only comes with
binary display drivers.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 09:00:00PM +0200, hiro wrote:
> I have a tegra 2 and it's completely undocumented and only comes with
> binary display drivers.

Speaking of tegra, what the hell happened with linux4tegra?  It was
announced, delayed, released, and then pulled?  Is that correct? 

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 09:00:00PM +0200, hiro wrote:
>> I have a tegra 2 and it's completely undocumented and only comes with
>> binary display drivers.
>
> Speaking of tegra, what the hell happened with linux4tegra? =C2=A0It was
> announced, delayed, released, and then pulled? =C2=A0Is that correct?
>

linux4tegra exists. I can run quake 3 and drawterm on my ac100,
connected to big TVs via HDMI :D
doesn't help plan9 though.

http://h1ro.dyndns.org/IMG_20120403_003343.jpg

do you mind quoting it here?

2012/6/17 Nick LaForge <nicklaforge@gmail.com>:
> I'm still a little hesitant
> about Nvidia, but to avoid further damaging relations with processor
> designers I'll defer to Torvalds' statement on the matter from
> Thursday in Finland.

> do you mind quoting it here?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA&feature=youtu.be&t=49m45s

Le 17/06/2012 19:20, arnold@skeeve.com a =C3=A9crit :
> http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview
>
> Arnold

Thank you a lot.  There are some nice devices I've never heard
about before, including the Cubox.

Nicolas

Another neat comparison of 44 tiny devices:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4035896/a320_downloads/SBC_comparison44.pdf

I wonder which one will run Plan9 without much of a hassle. Have to wait somebody to crack RaspberryPi.

On Sunday, 17 June 2012 18:20:35 UTC+1, (unknown)  wrote:
> http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview
> 
> Arnold

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Hi,

I am waiting for my RaspPi to start some cracking, but meanwhile you can
have a look at http://kernelnomicon.org/ which is illustrating the
progress for RPi to boot FreeBSD. It provides useful bunch of info about
booting process that RPi uses - can be a very good starting point.

On 2012-07-16 10:44 , opryymak@gmail.com wrote:
> Another neat comparison of 44 tiny devices:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4035896/a320_downloads/SBC_comparison44.pdf
>
> I wonder which one will run Plan9 without much of a hassle. Have to wai=
t somebody to crack RaspberryPi.




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On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 08:44:52AM +0000, opryymak@gmail.com wrote:
> Another neat comparison of 44 tiny devices:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4035896/a320_downloads/SBC_comparison44.pdf

I think this one looks very good too in terms of price/features, advised by some
colleagues:
http://www.fanlesstech.com/2012/07/minix-tv-box-h24.html
http://dx.com/p/h24-mini-android-4-1-network-media-player-w-wi-fi-hdmi-usb-tf-av-blue-4gb-143241

> On Sunday, 17 June 2012 18:20:35 UTC+1, (unknown)  wrote:
> > http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview
> > 
> > Arnold
> 

On Mon, 2012-07-16 at 08:44 +0000, opryymak@gmail.com wrote:
> Another neat comparison of 44 tiny devices:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4035896/a320_downloads/SBC_comparison44.pdf

No mention of the $16 Teensy?  http://www.pjrc.com/

....or the Arduino?

I'd like to share with everyone that I've just purchased one of these:
https://www.olimex.com/dev/imx233-olinuxino-micro.html

I liked how they have all their schematics and layouts are on github and 
that the freescale chip would be a bit friendlier than something from 
nvidia or broadcom (not to mention you can actually purchase low qty of 
this chip if you wanted to).  There is a larger version as well (go to 
Olimex's main site and navigate to the product family 'olinuxino').

I've always had good experiences with Olimex stuff.  I am really glad to 
see them still in operation.

-Jack

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:49:20 -0400
Wes Kussmaul <wes@authentrus.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2012-07-16 at 08:44 +0000, opryymak@gmail.com wrote:
> > Another neat comparison of 44 tiny devices:
> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4035896/a320_downloads/SBC_comparison44.pdf
> 
> No mention of the $16 Teensy?  http://www.pjrc.com/

It's an 8-bit, what are you going to put on it, CP-M? ;) Granted, some
of the old 8-bit OSs can be quite nice. I really like the one in the
Atari 800, it has a really unified device interface, but it's no Plan 9.

Actually I've toyed with the idea of a "Plan 9 from 8-bit space". It
would be a fun challenge, I think, and I'd be interested to find
exactly what compromises would be needed. It may even be less of a
challenge than writing drivers for the crap peripherals ARM SOCs always
seem to be burdened with, but what could you do with it when it was
done?

> 
> ...or the Arduino?

An overpriced and underpowered member of a class of devices that are
far short of running Plan 9 in the first place. And why on Earth is it
programmed in C++?


-- 
This is obviously some strange usage of the 
word "simple" that I was previously unaware of.

> Actually I've toyed with the idea of a "Plan 9 from 8-bit space". It
> would be a fun challenge, I think, and I'd be interested to find
> exactly what compromises would be needed. It may even be less of a
> challenge than writing drivers for the crap peripherals ARM SOCs always
> seem to be burdened with, but what could you do with it when it was
> done?

you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.

- erik

More to the point, you don't want any OS on an 8 bit machine.

A small driver library, maybe.  But really, 8 bit machines today are
just for fun little micro-control projects and you really don't want
an OS in the way.
The first thing I did to make an arduino useful was reclaim the timer
thread that the arduino "OS" steals from you...

Paul

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:53 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> Actually I've toyed with the idea of a "Plan 9 from 8-bit space". It
>> would be a fun challenge, I think, and I'd be interested to find
>> exactly what compromises would be needed. It may even be less of a
>> challenge than writing drivers for the crap peripherals ARM SOCs always
>> seem to be burdened with, but what could you do with it when it was
>> done?
>
> you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
>
> - erik
>

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:53:05PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> 
> you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
> 
> - erik
> 

Thanks for letting him know, erik.  Please also explain his other
hardware opinions, I think he's looking for a keyboard

--0015175def8a090d6404c509fcfd
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it's an Atmel AVR. we did z[acl] for the ATmega128 in the Berkeley mote,
which is an 8-bit AVR, and I wrote a little 16/32 bit kernel for it.

On 17 July 2012 17:51, Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> It's an 8-bit, what are you going to put on it,

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it&#39;s an Atmel AVR. we did z[acl] for the ATmega128 in the Berkeley mote=
, which is an 8-bit AVR, and I wrote a little 16/32 bit kernel for it.<br><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 17 July 2012 17:51, Ethan Grammatikidis <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eekee57@fastmail.fm" target=3D"_blank=
">eekee57@fastmail.fm</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">It&#39;s an 8-bit, what are you going to put=
 on it, </blockquote></div><br>

--0015175def8a090d6404c509fcfd--

--0015175def8a0efa2604c50a0a54
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You do on the wireless motes, because you have several networks and a file
system.
There isn't a "user mode" of course, but there are applications. ours was a
noise
monitoring system to some international noise-monitoring standard.

On 17 July 2012 18:33, Paul Lalonde <paul.a.lalonde@gmail.com> wrote:

> A small driver library, maybe.  But really, 8 bit machines today are
> just for fun little micro-control projects and you really don't want
> an OS in the way.
>

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You do on the wireless motes, because you have several networks and a file =
system.<div>There isn&#39;t a &quot;user mode&quot; of course, but there ar=
e applications. ours was a noise</div><div>monitoring system to some intern=
ational noise-monitoring standard.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 17 July 2012 18:33, Paul Lalonde <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paul.a.lalonde@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>paul.a.lalonde@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">
<div id=3D":1qj">A small driver library, maybe. =C2=A0But really, 8 bit mac=
hines today are<br>
just for fun little micro-control projects and you really don&#39;t want<br=
>
an OS in the way.</div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--0015175def8a0efa2604c50a0a54--

On Tue Jul 17 13:35:18 EDT 2012, khm-9@intma.in wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:53:05PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > 
> > you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
> > 
> > - erik
> > 
> 
> Thanks for letting him know, erik.  Please also explain his other
> hardware opinions, I think he's looking for a keyboard

it's an opinion that 8 bits don't have mmus?
that's taking relativism to a whole new level.

- erik

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 02:16:00PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> 
> it's an opinion that 8 bits don't have mmus?
> that's taking relativism to a whole new level.
> 

your original message didn't contain anything approaching useful content

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> you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.

Which, of course, doesn't say anything about wanting styx/9p
on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this
(recurring) conversation, I'm compelled to make sure everyone
has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work
to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego
Mindstorm controller over styx.

	http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/lego.pdf


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On Tue Jul 17 14:44:28 EDT 2012, a@9srv.net wrote:

> > you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
> 
> Which, of course, doesn't say anything about wanting styx/9p
> on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this
> (recurring) conversation, I'm compelled to make sure everyone
> has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work
> to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego
> Mindstorm controller over styx.
> 
> 	http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/lego.pdf

don't forget jeff's pic controllers.

- erik

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https://github.com/echoline/NinePea too (it needs work)
On Jul 17, 2012 11:52 AM, "erik quanstrom" <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> On Tue Jul 17 14:44:28 EDT 2012, a@9srv.net wrote:
>
> > > you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
> >
> > Which, of course, doesn't say anything about wanting styx/9p
> > on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this
> > (recurring) conversation, I'm compelled to make sure everyone
> > has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work
> > to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego
> > Mindstorm controller over styx.
> >
> >       http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/lego.pdf
>
> don't forget jeff's pic controllers.
>
> - erik
>
>

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<p><a href=3D"https://github.com/echoline/NinePea">https://github.com/echol=
ine/NinePea</a> too (it needs work)</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 17, 2012 11:52 AM, &quot;erik quanstrom&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quanstro@quanstro.net">quanstro@quanstro.net</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Tue Jul 17 14:44:28 EDT 2012, <a href=3D"mailto:a@9srv.net">a@9srv.net</=
a> wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt; you don&#39;t want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Which, of course, doesn&#39;t say anything about wanting styx/9p<br>
&gt; on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this<br>
&gt; (recurring) conversation, I&#39;m compelled to make sure everyone<br>
&gt; has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work<br>
&gt; to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego<br>
&gt; Mindstorm controller over styx.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 <a href=3D"http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/=
lego.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/=
lego.pdf</a><br>
<br>
don&#39;t forget jeff&#39;s pic controllers.<br>
<br>
- erik<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--20cf30563027e8c50a04c50b4721--

why does this have a .cpp file?

On 7/17/12, Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:
> https://github.com/echoline/NinePea too (it needs work)
> On Jul 17, 2012 11:52 AM, "erik quanstrom" <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue Jul 17 14:44:28 EDT 2012, a@9srv.net wrote:
>>
>> > > you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
>> >
>> > Which, of course, doesn't say anything about wanting styx/9p
>> > on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this
>> > (recurring) conversation, I'm compelled to make sure everyone
>> > has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work
>> > to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego
>> > Mindstorm controller over styx.
>> >
>> >       http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/lego.pdf
>>
>> don't forget jeff's pic controllers.
>>
>> - erik
>>
>>
>

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:51:13 BST Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm>  wrote:
> Actually I've toyed with the idea of a "Plan 9 from 8-bit space". It
> would be a fun challenge, I think, and I'd be interested to find
> exactly what compromises would be needed. It may even be less of a
> challenge than writing drivers for the crap peripherals ARM SOCs always
> seem to be burdened with, but what could you do with it when it was
> done?

What would be possible is to build a general purpose
building block. Something like this:
- provide a tiny thread library
- provide 9p over USB|serial|UDP
- implement a simple 9p server framework & export a server
  side interface where one can plug in sensor/actuator
  specific routines and specify the FS layout via a string.
- implement a namespace convention for discovering
  capabilities (for example a "help/" dir)
- it should be implementable as a verilog block some day!
  may be not but imagining that keeps the design simple.

Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be something
simpler.

> Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be something
> simpler.

you should read the iwp9 papers!

- erik

On 7/17/12, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:51:13 BST Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>> Actually I've toyed with the idea of a "Plan 9 from 8-bit space". It
>> would be a fun challenge, I think, and I'd be interested to find
>> exactly what compromises would be needed. It may even be less of a
>> challenge than writing drivers for the crap peripherals ARM SOCs always
>> seem to be burdened with, but what could you do with it when it was
>> done?
>
> What would be possible is to build a general purpose
> building block. Something like this:
> - provide a tiny thread library
> - provide 9p over USB|serial|UDP
> - implement a simple 9p server framework & export a server
>   side interface where one can plug in sensor/actuator
>   specific routines and specify the FS layout via a string.
> - implement a namespace convention for discovering
>   capabilities (for example a "help/" dir)
> - it should be implementable as a verilog block some day!
>   may be not but imagining that keeps the design simple.
>
> Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be something
> simpler.

well, then do it if you think so.

> > What would be possible is to build a general purpose
> > building block. Something like this:
> > - provide a tiny thread library
> > - provide 9p over USB|serial|UDP
> > - implement a simple 9p server framework & export a server
> >   side interface where one can plug in sensor/actuator
> >   specific routines and specify the FS layout via a string.
> > - implement a namespace convention for discovering
> >   capabilities (for example a "help/" dir)
> > - it should be implementable as a verilog block some day!
> >   may be not but imagining that keeps the design simple.
> >
> > Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be something
> > simpler.
> 
> well, then do it if you think so.

what i was trying to say before, is that there is already
some research in the area.  it doesn't have to be proven possible.

see:

"9p for embedded devices" http://iwp9.inf.uth.gr/.
and "levitating across the river styx"
http://4e.iwp9.org/papers/levitation.pdf

- erik

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On 2012-07-17 21:16 , erik quanstrom wrote:
>> Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be something
>> simpler.
> you should read the iwp9 papers!
>
> - erik
>

by the way, are there papers/slides from 6th(2011)? haven't seen them


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  <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2012-07-17 21:16 , erik quanstrom
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite=3D"mid:113feb48b207710d20e8f333b720fa62@brasstown.quanstro.net=
"
      type=3D"cite">
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <pre wrap=3D"">Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be somet=
hing
simpler.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap=3D"">
you should read the iwp9 papers!

- erik

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <font face=3D"Menlo"><br>
      by the way, are there papers/slides from 6th(2011)? haven't seen
      them<br>
    </font><br>
  </body>
</html>

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On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:33:59 EDT erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>  wrote:
> > > What would be possible is to build a general purpose
> > > building block. Something like this:
> > > - provide a tiny thread library
> > > - provide 9p over USB|serial|UDP
> > > - implement a simple 9p server framework & export a server
> > >   side interface where one can plug in sensor/actuator
> > >   specific routines and specify the FS layout via a string.
> > > - implement a namespace convention for discovering
> > >   capabilities (for example a "help/" dir)
> > > - it should be implementable as a verilog block some day!
> > >   may be not but imagining that keeps the design simple.
> > >
> > > Actually it doesn't have to be 9p. It can be something
> > > simpler.
> > 
> > well, then do it if you think so.
> 
> what i was trying to say before, is that there is already
> some research in the area.  it doesn't have to be proven possible.
> 
> see:
> 
> "9p for embedded devices" http://iwp9.inf.uth.gr/.
> and "levitating across the river styx"
> http://4e.iwp9.org/papers/levitation.pdf

I have read the styx papers. The concept is of course not new.
What I am talking about is packaging up as a reusable
component.  Specifically
- server side api
- ability to discover capabilities. no new client side drivers
  for each new device.

As for "simpler than 9p" I had a different thing in mind from
what is in various iwp9 papers. Not worth talking about in the
abstract.

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Arduino uses C++.  I guess it could be a .c file, though.
On Jul 17, 2012 12:14 PM, "hiro" <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> why does this have a .cpp file?
>
> On 7/17/12, Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:
> > https://github.com/echoline/NinePea too (it needs work)
> > On Jul 17, 2012 11:52 AM, "erik quanstrom" <quanstro@quanstro.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue Jul 17 14:44:28 EDT 2012, a@9srv.net wrote:
> >>
> >> > > you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
> >> >
> >> > Which, of course, doesn't say anything about wanting styx/9p
> >> > on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this
> >> > (recurring) conversation, I'm compelled to make sure everyone
> >> > has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work
> >> > to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego
> >> > Mindstorm controller over styx.
> >> >
> >> >       http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/lego.pdf
> >>
> >> don't forget jeff's pic controllers.
> >>
> >> - erik
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

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<p>Arduino uses C++.=A0 I guess it could be a .c file, though.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 17, 2012 12:14 PM, &quot;hiro&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:23hiro@gmail.com">23hiro@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=
=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
why does this have a .cpp file?<br>
<br>
On 7/17/12, Eli Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:echoline@gmail.com">echoline@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/echoline/NinePea" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://github.com/echoline/NinePea</a> too (it needs work)<br>
&gt; On Jul 17, 2012 11:52 AM, &quot;erik quanstrom&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:quanstro@quanstro.net">quanstro@quanstro.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Tue Jul 17 14:44:28 EDT 2012, <a href=3D"mailto:a@9srv.net">a@9=
srv.net</a> wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; you don&#39;t want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Which, of course, doesn&#39;t say anything about wanting styx=
/9p<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this<br=
>
&gt;&gt; &gt; (recurring) conversation, I&#39;m compelled to make sure ever=
yone<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; to export the sensors and motors connected to a Lego<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Mindstorm controller over styx.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 <a href=3D"http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/t=
runk/doc/lego.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://inferno-os.googlecode.com/svn/t=
runk/doc/lego.pdf</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; don&#39;t forget jeff&#39;s pic controllers.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; - erik<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--20cf30563027b538d104c50c229b--

> by the way, are there papers/slides from 6th(2011)? haven't seen them

; hget http://iwp9.org/iwp96e.pdf|page

- erik