Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
If so, with what driver?

Hans

In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
> Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
> loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> If so, with what driver?

   IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to
   connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and such), 
   but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting
   to the controller on another system.

Bob Koehler wrote:

> In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
> 
>>Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
>>loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
>>The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
>>If so, with what driver?
> 
> 
>    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to
>    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and such), 
>    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting
>    to the controller on another system.

What are we talking about here???

The CI is a hardware link between to systems in a Cluster, which vehiculates any 
kind of protocols, among them fortunately DECnet to enable inter-nodes 
communication. Never heard of any specific CYDRIVER to load to have DECnet 
working in a CI cluster...!

DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has nothing 
to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?

D.

"Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote in message 
news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
> DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has 
> nothing to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?
>
The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access 
DSSI drives from the console or VMS.  It was used to set unit node names and 
numbers (for shared buses and shadowing) and other useful parameters.  As I 
recall it was a $ SET HOST/DSSI command, something like that.

Was it VMS engineering types who so often pointed out that MOP is not 
DECnet, even if they are both on the same wire?
  Jack Peacock 

Jack Peacock wrote:
> "Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote in message 
> news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
> 
>>DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has 
>>nothing to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?
>>
> 
> The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access 
> DSSI drives from the console or VMS.  It was used to set unit node names and 
> numbers (for shared buses and shadowing) and other useful parameters.  As I 
> recall it was a $ SET HOST/DSSI command, something like that.
> 
> Was it VMS engineering types who so often pointed out that MOP is not 
> DECnet, even if they are both on the same wire?

Yep. Same as SET HOST/HSC /DUP or /LAT. Shudda remember that ones...

D.

In article <42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:
> 
> DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has nothing 
> to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?

   CI controllers originally tended to have serial ports, so that you
   could set up and manage the controllers, but IIRC DECnet was also made 
   available and you could actually use DECnet host to host (The early
   HS contollers were PDP-11 based and lots of PDP-11 did DECnet).  CI was 
   not a dumb storage bus like MASSBUS, it originally was designed to support 
   SCS protocols.  DSSI was implemented to support SCS protocols, too, and
   DSSI controllers originally did not tend to have serial ports to
   do things like controller setup, so DECnet (I think) was implemented
   enough to allow a remote terminal-like connection.

In article <7o2dndgIFp9rfFPfRVn-vg@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:
> "Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote in message 
> news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
>> DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has 
>> nothing to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?
>>
> The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access 
> DSSI drives from the console or VMS.  It was used to set unit node names and 
> numbers (for shared buses and shadowing) and other useful parameters.  As I 
> recall it was a $ SET HOST/DSSI command, something like that.
> 
> Was it VMS engineering types who so often pointed out that MOP is not 
> DECnet, even if they are both on the same wire?

   The command from the console was >>> set host/dup/dssi .  DUP is not
   MOP, I think it's derived from CTERM or RTPAD, which are DECnet
   based utilities.

   From VMS the command to get to a CI controller is $set host/hsc , and
   to get to a DSSI controller $set host/dup ; my earlier post on this
   was in error.

Jack Peacock wrote:
> The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access
> DSSI drives from the console or VMS.

No! No ! No ! 

Everyone knows that DSSI is just the Digital proprietary implementation of
SCSI. 
Everyone knows that VMS is now able to pass SCS traffic over SCSI between nodes.

Therefore, it is perfectly logical to ask whether DECNET could be routed over
DSSI :-) :-) :-)

Would it be philosophically possible to route DECNET over SCSI between 2 nodes
? Is there a huge difference in transport level phisolophy between DECNET and
SCS ? 


And the next question: 
	Will DECNET-4 be updated on VAX to support USB ?
	Will HP install support in its digital cameras and printers to support Decnet
over USB ? 
	Will HP pressure other manufacturers to support DECNET in their cameras ?

	(And the next step will be DECNET in mobile handsets via BluTooth :-)

Sorry, it's friday afternoon... :-)

"Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> schreef in bericht
news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
> Bob Koehler wrote:
>
> > In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems"
<nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
> >
> >>Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it
involved
> >>loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> >>The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> >>If so, with what driver?
> >
> >
> >    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to
> >    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and
such),
> >    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting
> >    to the controller on another system.
>
> What are we talking about here???
>
> The CI is a hardware link between to systems in a Cluster, which
vehiculates any
> kind of protocols, among them fortunately DECnet to enable inter-nodes
> communication. Never heard of any specific CYDRIVER to load to have DECnet
> working in a CI cluster...!
>
> DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has
nothing
> to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?
>
> D.

Gentlemen,

way back DECnet was a protocol that ran over a multitude of carriers. DECnet
phase IV
supported ethernet, serial lines (a.k.a. DDCMP) and the CI bus. In a typical
CI cluster
with 11/750's or 11/780's one had the option to add a DEUNA or a CI
interface and run
DECnet over it. Instead of UNA-0 (circuit and line id for a DEUNA) the CI
node had
a line (and circuit) called CXY-0 or something like that.
All standard DECnet functionality was available over that circuit. Now you
may wonder why
you'd use DECnet over the CI to copy files if there was a CI bus present,
but those 7x0's had local
storage as well.

I understand the confusion with SET HOST/DUP. But that is  not DECnet at
all.
The question was: there is (was) a driver that implemented DECnet over the
CI bus, is there
a DSSI counterpart?

What amazes me is that the concept of "DECnet over CI" is forgotten....

Hans

"H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:

>Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
>loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
>The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
>If so, with what driver?

I don't know how the CYDRIVER (CUDRIVER?) was implemented, but if it was
implemented by talking to SCS, it might work over DSSI as is.  DSSI is to
software very much like a slow CI link, even though DSSI is electrically
very similar to SCSI.

If it doesn't try to second-guess SCS it wouldn't care what the port 
driver is. It would even work over ethernet (PEDRIVER) within a cluster if 
you like doing DECnet the hard way :-)

I vaguely remember that DECnet over the CI was discouraged by Digital,
the driver was inefficient or unsupported or something, better to do
DECnet over ethernet if it was available.

-Mike

"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> schreef in bericht
news:50hwIOMHoDHO@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems"
<nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
> > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it
involved
> > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> > If so, with what driver?
>
>    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to
>    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and
such),
>    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting
>    to the controller on another system.
>

Bob, that was not what I meant. Certain VAX systems (e.g. the 4000 model
100's) have sufficient
functionality built into the firmware to connect to DSSI devices. This is
also possible if VMS is
running. In fact, you need to load the same driver to talk to a DSSI device
as for the HSC50/70:
viz. the FYDRIVER.
AFAIK there is no DECnet involved to make that work. But the similatity
between DSSI and CI,
the fact that both busses use FYDRIVER for a specific purpose led me to
think that the same might
work for CYDRIVER, which implemented full DECnet functionality over the CI.

"Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> schreef in bericht
news:danbkd$r3v$1@pcls4.std.com...
> "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
>
> >Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
> >loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> >The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> >If so, with what driver?
>
> I don't know how the CYDRIVER (CUDRIVER?) was implemented, but if it was
> implemented by talking to SCS, it might work over DSSI as is.  DSSI is to
> software very much like a slow CI link, even though DSSI is electrically
> very similar to SCSI.
>
> If it doesn't try to second-guess SCS it wouldn't care what the port
> driver is. It would even work over ethernet (PEDRIVER) within a cluster if
> you like doing DECnet the hard way :-)
>
> I vaguely remember that DECnet over the CI was discouraged by Digital,
> the driver was inefficient or unsupported or something, better to do
> DECnet over ethernet if it was available.
>
> -Mike
>
Correct, but for another reason IIRC. Remember that in those days DEC was
very careful about
performance. DECnet level 1 (or circuit) routing and level 2 (area) routing
were thought to have
a serious performance impact. I remember running level 2 routing on a
microVAX II for an
area with 1021 pc's in it, all running Pathworks over DECnet without ever
seeing more than
10% cpu load on the microVAX II (which had 9 MB memory and two RD54's :-).
So running DECnet over ethernet and the CI meant that the systems involved
had to be configured
as DECnet level 1 routers. Besides performance, the cost of the DVNETRTG
license was an
important issue too.

"H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:

> Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
> loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> If so, with what driver?

CYDRIVER. CI and DSSI both use compatable port drivers. There is a short
`how to' in the FM I seem to remember. I run it between my home 4000-700s
for some time.  


-- 
Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.
                                             West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

How soon they forget...

MOP, Maintainance and Operation Protocol, is a low level set of coms
protocols that work between *adjacent* nodes to do functions like
booting, dumping, and remote console.

DUP, Diagnostic and Utilities Protocol, is part of the MSCP/SCS
protocol suite that is use for comunicating with controlers for
diagnostic and general utility function as opposed to storage and
shovelling the bytes. An SCS port implements 3 type of transfer,
Datagram, Sequenced Messages, and Block Data. The DECnet classdriver,
for reason known only to the person who wrote it, if him, uses
datagrams. Small messages, no HW assist for sequencing and accs,
ie  the worst of the 3...

Mind you, a high cost CI line is IMO almost essential in a critical
cluster with functions distributed over the nodes.

-- 
Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.
                                             West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:

> "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
>>loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
>>The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
>>If so, with what driver?
> 
> 
> CYDRIVER. CI and DSSI both use compatable port drivers. There is a short
> `how to' in the FM I seem to remember. I run it between my home 4000-700s
> for some time.  


Yes, DSSI is still supported, and you can mix, CI, DSSI, ethernet, 
memory channel, as long as they call see each other.

Since DSSI is so close to SCSI you wonder why SCS didn't run on SCSI 
clusters.  Maybe FDDI will be next.

The future is 10 gb ethernet.

> 
> 

H Vlems wrote:
> 
> Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved
> loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> If so, with what driver?

I don't recall ever reading about a driver that would allow passing
DECnet over the DSSI bus.

Even on CI, it's meant as a high-cost fall-back only in case the
ethernet proved unusable, for whatever reason. Early CI had enough
congestion problems without adding DECnet into the mix. Even 140Mbit CI
still is less than ideal as a DECnet medium shared by the storage
interconnect. 

The ethernet LAN is almost always preferable, but I can see where it
might be helpful in special cases to pass DECnet over the CI from an
end-node to a Level-I routing node, and thence to the ethernet.

-- 
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/

Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

Coming soon:
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page

On 08 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some news:7d2ac
$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl:

> Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it 
involved
> loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> If so, with what driver?
> 
> Hans
> 
> 

CI Clusters:

SYSGEN> CONNECT CNA0 /NOADAPT /DRIVER=CNDRIVER (CI Data Link Driver)

NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1 
NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.2 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 2 

Worked fine in a CI based cluster with some 8800's, 8650's, 785, 750 and 
a 4000-300 (With a CIQBA).  Ran DECnet on the 750 and 785 that way for 
years.  The 785 had a DELUA in it.  Getting the circuits defined 
correctly took a little extra effort initially. 

DSSI runs exactly the same protocols as CI and is identical to CI except 
for the physical connections.  They both use the PADRIVER.  Never tried 
to load and use the CNDRIVER on a DSSI system.

DSSI is kinda slow, maybe 4-5 MBps tops, on a good day, downhill, with a 
very fast mule leading the way...  At least one system would require a 
functioning ethernet adapter.  Might make for an interesting experiment.  

This might help a bit although it contains no mention of DSSI circuits 
employed in the manner which you seek.  It does cover the CI portion 
which if the DSSI bus could be used, should be very similar.  

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/DECNET_OVMS_NET_
MAN.PDF

"PORT: A communications device, such as DSSI, CI, Ethernet or FDDI. Each 
CI or DSSI bus is a different local port, named PAA0, PAB0, PAC0 etc. 
All Ethernet and FDDI busses make up a single PEA0 port." 

http://mirror.sg.depaul.edu/pub/usenet-by-
group/news./OpenVMS_Frequently_Asked_Questions_(FAQ),_Part_8_9

Beach Runner wrote:

> 
> 
> prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:
> 
>> "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>> Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it 
>>> involved
>>> loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
>>> The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
>>> If so, with what driver?
>>
>>
>>
>> CYDRIVER. CI and DSSI both use compatable port drivers. There is a short
>> `how to' in the FM I seem to remember. I run it between my home 4000-700s
>> for some time.  
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, DSSI is still supported, and you can mix, CI, DSSI, ethernet, 
> memory channel, as long as they call see each other.
> 
> Since DSSI is so close to SCSI you wonder why SCS didn't run on SCSI 
> clusters.  Maybe FDDI will be next.
> 
> The future is 10 gb ethernet.
> 
>>
>>

I misread it, no  DECNET over dssi, or scsi

"Beach Runner" <bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:y1gAe.228037$w15.180272@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

> Since DSSI is so close to SCSI you wonder why SCS didn't run on SCSI
> clusters.

As I understand it, electrically they are very much the same but the protocol
layer is much more like CI. It would have been possible, I guess, I doubt
commodity cards would be optimized for it, though.

> Maybe FDDI will be next.

Hmm? SCS over FDDI works just fine.

> The future is 10 gb ethernet.

Yeah,  give or take a niche low latency interconnect.

In article <42CEEA2A.EE5D7BE8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:
> No! No ! No ! 
> 
> Everyone knows that DSSI is just the Digital proprietary implementation of
> SCSI. 
> Everyone knows that VMS is now able to pass SCS traffic over SCSI between nodes.

   Guess again.  Only the cables are the same.

> Therefore, it is perfectly logical to ask whether DECNET could be routed over
> DSSI :-) :-) :-)

   DECnet could be routed over continuous tape loop if you really
   wanted to.  But you may have to implement the lowest layers yourself. 
   I think the OP was interested in whether DEC supplied the lowest
   layers for DECnet over DSSI and/or CI.
   
> Would it be philosophically possible to route DECNET over SCSI between 2 nodes
> ? Is there a huge difference in transport level phisolophy between DECNET and
> SCS ? 

   Yes, it would be possible to implement DECnet over SCSI.  Yes, there
   is a hughe difference between a general purpose networking stack like
   DECnet which works on high speed LANs and low speed WANs and on a great 
   number of OS, and SCS which works only on high speed networks and
   only for one OS.

> And the next question: 
> 	Will DECNET-4 be updated on VAX to support USB ?

   I don't theink VAXen will ever get USB support.

> 	Will HP install support in its digital cameras and printers to support Decnet
> over USB ? 

   There are already lots of camera and printers supported over USB with
   nothing so complex as an entire network stack.

> 	Will HP pressure other manufacturers to support DECNET in their cameras ?

   What possible reason would anyone have for adding any network stack
   to such a simple problem?
   
> 	(And the next step will be DECNET in mobile handsets via BluTooth :-)
> 
> Sorry, it's friday afternoon... :-)

   Maybe you want DECnet support for MASSBUS drives while your at it? 
   (It's Monday AM).

koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:

>In article <42CEEA2A.EE5D7BE8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:
>> No! No ! No ! 
>> 
>> Everyone knows that DSSI is just the Digital proprietary implementation of
>> SCSI. 
>> Everyone knows that VMS is now able to pass SCS traffic over SCSI between nodes.

>   Guess again.  Only the cables are the same.

Not even the cables are the same.  As another poster pointed out, the
messages passed are nothing like SCSI packets.  They are SCS just like
you'd see on a CI.  Each DSSI drive is a node just like an HSJ on a CI
is a node.  (Neither is a full cluster member).

"Olaf Krugre" <olafkrugre@kansas.net> schreef in bericht
news:Xns96907454750A8976235896123@68.6.19.6...
> On 08 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some news:7d2ac
> $42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl:
>
> > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it
> involved
> > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> > If so, with what driver?
> >
> > Hans
> >
> >
>
> CI Clusters:
>
> SYSGEN> CONNECT CNA0 /NOADAPT /DRIVER=CNDRIVER (CI Data Link Driver)
>
> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1
> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.2 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 2
>

Olaf,

OK, thanks for the pointers. This is what I see (on both nodes):

NCP>sho know circ


Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 12-JUL-2005 20:11:00

   Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
                                              Name      Routing Node

  CI-0.0            on       -synchronizing
  CI-0.1            on       -synchronizing
  ISA-0             off
NCP>

Both nodes have DVNETRTG loaded, so it's not a license problem.
IIRC this also happened the first time I used this on a CI cluster, but
cannot remember what to do to fix it...
Any ideas?

Hans

On 12 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some news:5402b
$42d4081a$513b9a2c$22077@news.versatel.nl:

> 
> "Olaf Krugre" <olafkrugre@kansas.net> schreef in bericht
> news:Xns96907454750A8976235896123@68.6.19.6...
>> On 08 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some 
news:7d2ac
>> $42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl:
>>
>> > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it
>> involved
>> > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
>> > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
>> > If so, with what driver?
>> >
>> > Hans
>> >
>> >
>>
>> CI Clusters:
>>
>> SYSGEN> CONNECT CNA0 /NOADAPT /DRIVER=CNDRIVER (CI Data Link Driver)
>>
>> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1
>> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.2 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 2
>>
> 
> Olaf,
> 
> OK, thanks for the pointers. This is what I see (on both nodes):
> 
> NCP>sho know circ
> 
> 
> Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 12-JUL-2005 20:11:00
> 
>    Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
>                                               Name      Routing Node
> 
>   CI-0.0            on       -synchronizing
>   CI-0.1            on       -synchronizing
>   ISA-0             off
> NCP>
> 
> Both nodes have DVNETRTG loaded, so it's not a license problem.
> IIRC this also happened the first time I used this on a CI cluster, 
but
> cannot remember what to do to fix it...
> Any ideas?
> 
> Hans
> 

See the circuit definitions?

NCP> SHOW CIRC CI-0.0 CHAR (Or LIST)

Note the tributary that it points to.

There must be a matching circuit and tributary on the other host for it 
to sync up with.

For example:

NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 4 (On Host "NODEA")

would expect to see,

NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.4 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1 (On Host "NODEB")

The .1 and .4 corresponded with the CI node number.  

"Olaf Krugre" <olafkrugre@kansas.net> schreef in bericht
news:Xns969299CDE7BB98976235896123@68.6.19.6...
> On 12 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some news:5402b
> $42d4081a$513b9a2c$22077@news.versatel.nl:
>
> >
> > "Olaf Krugre" <olafkrugre@kansas.net> schreef in bericht
> > news:Xns96907454750A8976235896123@68.6.19.6...
> >> On 08 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some
> news:7d2ac
> >> $42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl:
> >>
> >> > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it
> >> involved
> >> > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> >> > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> >> > If so, with what driver?
> >> >
> >> > Hans
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> CI Clusters:
> >>
> >> SYSGEN> CONNECT CNA0 /NOADAPT /DRIVER=CNDRIVER (CI Data Link Driver)
> >>
> >> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1
> >> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.2 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 2
> >>
> >
> > Olaf,
> >
> > OK, thanks for the pointers. This is what I see (on both nodes):
> >
> > NCP>sho know circ
> >
> >
> > Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 12-JUL-2005 20:11:00
> >
> >    Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
> >                                               Name      Routing Node
> >
> >   CI-0.0            on       -synchronizing
> >   CI-0.1            on       -synchronizing
> >   ISA-0             off
> > NCP>
> >
> > Both nodes have DVNETRTG loaded, so it's not a license problem.
> > IIRC this also happened the first time I used this on a CI cluster,
> but
> > cannot remember what to do to fix it...
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Hans
> >
>
> See the circuit definitions?
>
> NCP> SHOW CIRC CI-0.0 CHAR (Or LIST)
>
> Note the tributary that it points to.
>
> There must be a matching circuit and tributary on the other host for it
> to sync up with.
>
> For example:
>
> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 4 (On Host "NODEA")
>
> would expect to see,
>
> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.4 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1 (On Host "NODEB")
>
> The .1 and .4 corresponded with the CI node number.
>
>

The two cluster nodes are called CHROOM and CERIUM, their CI line and
circuit characteristics are:

CHROOM:

NCP>sho circ ci-0.0 char



Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:46:47


Circuit = CI-0.0


State = on

Substate = -synchronizing

Service = enabled

Cost = 10

Hello timer = 15

Tributary = 1

Maximum buffers = 9

Verification = disabled


NCP>sho line ci-0 char



Line Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:48:06


Line = CI-0


Receive buffers = 4



CERIUM:

NCP>sho circ ci-0.1 char


Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:46:28

Circuit = CI-0.1

State                    = on
Substate                 = -synchronizing
Service                  = enabled
Cost                     = 10
Hello timer              = 15
Tributary                = 0
Maximum buffers          = 9
Verification             = disabled


NCP>sho line ci-0 char


Line Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:49:32

Line = CI-0

Receive buffers          = 4


NCP>

H Vlems wrote:
> 
> "Olaf Krugre" <olafkrugre@kansas.net> schreef in bericht
> news:Xns969299CDE7BB98976235896123@68.6.19.6...
> > On 12 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some news:5402b
> > $42d4081a$513b9a2c$22077@news.versatel.nl:
> >
> > >
> > > "Olaf Krugre" <olafkrugre@kansas.net> schreef in bericht
> > > news:Xns96907454750A8976235896123@68.6.19.6...
> > >> On 08 Jul 2005, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> posted some
> > news:7d2ac
> > >> $42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl:
> > >>
> > >> > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it
> > >> involved
> > >> > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.
> > >> > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?
> > >> > If so, with what driver?
> > >> >
> > >> > Hans
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> CI Clusters:
> > >>
> > >> SYSGEN> CONNECT CNA0 /NOADAPT /DRIVER=CNDRIVER (CI Data Link Driver)
> > >>
> > >> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1
> > >> NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.2 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 2
> > >>
> > >
> > > Olaf,
> > >
> > > OK, thanks for the pointers. This is what I see (on both nodes):
> > >
> > > NCP>sho know circ
> > >
> > >
> > > Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 12-JUL-2005 20:11:00
> > >
> > >    Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
> > >                                               Name      Routing Node
> > >
> > >   CI-0.0            on       -synchronizing
> > >   CI-0.1            on       -synchronizing
> > >   ISA-0             off
> > > NCP>
> > >
> > > Both nodes have DVNETRTG loaded, so it's not a license problem.
> > > IIRC this also happened the first time I used this on a CI cluster,
> > but
> > > cannot remember what to do to fix it...
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Hans
> > >
> >
> > See the circuit definitions?
> >
> > NCP> SHOW CIRC CI-0.0 CHAR (Or LIST)
> >
> > Note the tributary that it points to.
> >
> > There must be a matching circuit and tributary on the other host for it
> > to sync up with.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.1 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 4 (On Host "NODEA")
> >
> > would expect to see,
> >
> > NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT CI-0.4 STATE ON TRIBUTARY 1 (On Host "NODEB")
> >
> > The .1 and .4 corresponded with the CI node number.
> >
> >
> 
> The two cluster nodes are called CHROOM and CERIUM, their CI line and
> circuit characteristics are:
> 
> CHROOM:
> 
> NCP>sho circ ci-0.0 char
> 
> Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:46:47
> 
> Circuit = CI-0.0
> 
> State = on
> 
> Substate = -synchronizing
> 
> Service = enabled
> 
> Cost = 10
> 
> Hello timer = 15
> 
> Tributary = 1
> 
> Maximum buffers = 9
> 
> Verification = disabled
> 
> NCP>sho line ci-0 char
> 
> Line Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:48:06
> 
> Line = CI-0
> 
> Receive buffers = 4
> 
> CERIUM:
> 
> NCP>sho circ ci-0.1 char
> 
> Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:46:28
> 
> Circuit = CI-0.1
> 
> State                    = on
> Substate                 = -synchronizing
> Service                  = enabled
> Cost                     = 10
> Hello timer              = 15
> Tributary                = 0
> Maximum buffers          = 9
> Verification             = disabled
> 
> NCP>sho line ci-0 char
> 
> Line Volatile Characteristics as of 14-JUL-2005 00:49:32
> 
> Line = CI-0
> 
> Receive buffers          = 4
> 
> NCP>

So, it seems Olaf is recommending using, for example, SHOW
CLUSTER/CONTINUOUS  and ADD CIRC to display the CI node numbers, then
make the appropriate entries in NCP on each machine that you want have
talk to a partner via the CI.

-- 
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/

Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

Coming soon:
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page

Yesterday eveing it was not possible to operate the DSSI cluster owing
to the outside temperature: my "computer room" is too hot. With a
couple of systems up and running the temperatuer rises quickly over 35
Celsius and that damages disks.
It gave me the opportunity to reread Olaf's mail again. Observations:
1 CNDRIVER loads without a problem
2 The DECnet line CI-0 is up and displays no errors
3 The circuit is up, substate synchronizing
It seems that DSSI behaves quite similar to a CI bus. The tributary
addresses may possibly need to match the DSSI node numbers, which are
definitely not 0 and 1.
If the weather permits I'll run a new test this evening.

Thanks for all the suggestions,

Hans