Erasing disks: conclusion

Hi, Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's = link to the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the = FAQ. My initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was = not feasible as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, = my good intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy = if there is little demand for these. Finally, given that the data = sensitivity in question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward = factor that Hoff mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of = physical destruction, including the possible use of firearms, which I = first passed over as amusing are now considered as the most reasonable = alternatives. Thanks, Pat G.

In article <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F20816EA@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>, "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: > Hi, > Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's = > link to the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the = > FAQ. My initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was = > not feasible as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, = > my good intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy = > if there is little demand for these. Finally, given that the data = > sensitivity in question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward = > factor that Hoff mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of = > physical destruction, including the possible use of firearms, which I = > first passed over as amusing are now considered as the most reasonable = > alternatives. Firearms are a fast method. Another trick is to drill through them with a power drill. Rob

In article <cLNEMb0U8xb9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > > Firearms are a fast method. Another trick is to drill through them > with a power drill. > Unless you drilled every square inch of the platters I doubt that would do any good. I remember seeing a demo decades ago (it involved 8" floppies) where the disk was taken out and holes were punched in it with a paper punch. The recovery service then recovered everything except the bits that actually occupied the locations of the holes. More than enough to reconstruct much of the lost data. If it really matters, I would imagine melting the disk is really the only true solution. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

"Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: > these. Finally, given that the data sensitivity in question relates > to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward factor that Hoff mentions is > very significant. So, the suggestions of physical destruction, > including the possible use of firearms, which I first passed over as > amusing are now considered as the most reasonable alternatives. The other thing I would add, is to set up and keep a log or other records of all your drives, so if, ah when, questions are asked you can point to the data. Having a witness to the trashing is also not a bad idea. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<bp08ka$1ij9hd$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>... > In article <cLNEMb0U8xb9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > > > > Firearms are a fast method. Another trick is to drill through them > > with a power drill. > > > > Unless you drilled every square inch of the platters I doubt > that would do any good. I remember seeing a demo decades ago > (it involved 8" floppies) where the disk was taken out and > holes were punched in it with a paper punch. The recovery > service then recovered everything except the bits that actually > occupied the locations of the holes. More than enough to > reconstruct much of the lost data. > > If it really matters, I would imagine melting the disk is > really the only true solution. > > bill Here are two posts from the past discussing this: I particularly like the second one, as it displays a solution that is both twisted and very, very funny. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=0033000061571262000002L022*%40MHS&output=gplain http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CC7A748.90D725C4%40mcmail.maricopa.edu&output=gplain

Hi, I've come into this a bit late, but...... You may find the following link interesting http://www.hipaadvisory.com/tech/disksan.htm There are also a number of software packages that will overwrite disks with random patterns. Certain ones of these have been approved by the UK and US governments. One other way is to take the disk and install it on a system running a different operating system (from VMS to Windows for example), then initialise it and exercise it with a destructive diagnostic utility. For me, there is only one real question, "Do you want to sell these disks in order to recover some money"? If the answer is yes, and the data is sensitive corporate data, then using a piece of software is perfectly adequate (if you select the ones with government approval). If the answer is no, then physical destruction will always be the best way to go. Do an erase/init, take the disk out, smash it to pieces with a sledgehammer and then cook the fragments at 800 degress centigrade for about 10 minutes. That's the only way to guarantee no one will get your data back. Incidently, I work as an expert in the UK legal system occasionally and I have several pieces of software that recovers data. I also purchase a large number of disk drives from eBay (cheaper than buying new when I only need them for the odd case) and in every case, I had been able to recover data from these disks, including data relating to corporate mergers, corporate databases, confidential memos etc. etc. so beware when disposing of disks......... Ashley On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:01:13 -0600, "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> wrote: >Hi, >Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's link to the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the FAQ. My initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was not feasible as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, my good intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy if there is little demand for these. Finally, given that the data sensitivity in question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward factor that Hoff mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of physical destruction, including the possible use of firearms, which I first passed over as amusing are now considered as the most reasonable alternatives. >Thanks, >Pat G. >***************************************************** >Ashley Shepherd >email to ashley.shepherd_minusthespam_@virgin.net >*****************************************************

Ashley Shepherd wrote: > > > Incidently, I work as an expert in the UK legal system occasionally > and I have several pieces of software that recovers data. I also > purchase a large number of disk drives from eBay (cheaper than buying > new when I only need them for the odd case) and in every case, I had > been able to recover data from these disks, including data relating to > corporate mergers, corporate databases, confidential memos etc. etc. > so beware when disposing of disks......... > > So, this thread now begs the question, "Do you allow field service to take away a faulty disk that they have replaced?" -- tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk

Ashley Shepherd wrote: > There are also a number of software packages that will overwrite disks > with random patterns. Certain ones of these have been approved by the > UK and US governments. VMS has that. SYS$EXAMPLES:DOD_ERAPAT.MAR > For me, there is only one real question, "Do you want to sell these > disks in order to recover some money"? It isn't a question of recovering money, it is a question of helping someone who might need such drives which have become hard to find due to their age and progression of protocols. Also, while this is a very "soft" reason, it is perhaps better to give it to a fellow decus member for $1 than to sell it on Ebay since the odds of the decus member actively seeking to recover your data are pretty low.

Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3FB4F7F8.9ECB94E@blueyonder.co.uk>... > Ashley Shepherd wrote: > > > > > > > Incidently, I work as an expert in the UK legal system occasionally > > and I have several pieces of software that recovers data. I also > > purchase a large number of disk drives from eBay (cheaper than buying > > new when I only need them for the odd case) and in every case, I had > > been able to recover data from these disks, including data relating to > > corporate mergers, corporate databases, confidential memos etc. etc. > > so beware when disposing of disks......... > > > > > > So, this thread now begs the question, "Do you allow field service to take > away a faulty disk that they have replaced?" The question you just begged brings to mind one of the best told-over-a-pint field service stories that I've ever heard. There is a certain agency of the federal government located in the state of Maryland at an installation with Meade as part of its name. This particular agency is reputed to have a multi-acre basement full of some of the nicest computers that our money can buy. Once Upon A Time, a DEC Field Engineer was in this basement replacing a failed component in one of these nice computers, and, out of habit, he red-tagged it and started to put it in his tool case for return to Logistics. He froze as he heard the double click of an M-16 bolt being pulled back and released as his Marine escort chambered a round and then asked him politely to please dispose of the part in the proper receptacle for secure disposal. And since there's another thread going about disk erasure, I've read that these same folks have shredders that'll take care of those pesky disk drives in one bite. Good luck getting them to let you in to use them, though. :^) ======================== William W. Webb- EMS Operations, OpenVMS Systems Support USPS DSSC Annex - 4730 Hargrove Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 919.325.7500x4186 * * * - email is first initial last name at email stop usps stop gov

William Webb wrote: > There is a certain agency of the federal government located in the > state of Maryland at an installation with Meade as part of its name. That information is public, you need not try to conceal it. Since I am in Canada where we still have freedom of speech: It is the NSA, headquartered at Fort Meade Maryland. http://www.nsa.gov <expecting the men in black to show up before I even press send :-) >

In article <3FB56075.D7B7EBB@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > William Webb wrote: >> There is a certain agency of the federal government located in the >> state of Maryland at an installation with Meade as part of its name. > > That information is public, you need not try to conceal it. Since I am in > Canada where we still have freedom of speech: It is the NSA, headquartered at > Fort Meade Maryland. > > http://www.nsa.gov Despite the behaviour of the current administration, no such agency has it's own sign on the side of the highway now. Just don't try to drive up that exit ramp.

This guy has the right idea, seem to destroy everything (Media Player clip) mms://stream.techtv.com/windows/unscrewed/2003/us030918a_165_0.asf "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> wrote in message news:EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F20816EA@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu... Hi, Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's link to the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the FAQ. My initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was not feasible as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, my good intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy if there is little demand for these. Finally, given that the data sensitivity in question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward factor that Hoff mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of physical destruction, including the possible use of firearms, which I first passed over as amusing are now considered as the most reasonable alternatives. Thanks, Pat G.