Hi,

We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity server.

We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.

We have installed the software, and read the documentation, but a lot of the documented commands do not seem to the present.

If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any comments/tips?

Thanks
Andrew

On Friday, July 20, 2012 9:21:27 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity server.
> 
> We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.
> 
> We have installed the software, and read the documentation, but a lot of the documented commands do not seem to the present.
> 
> If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any comments/tips?
> 
> Thanks
> Andrew

Andrew,

First question: With all due respect, are you sure that you have followed all of the instructions?

As is all too common, remote diagnosis is difficult without detailed information.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

andrewr04@gmail.com wrote 2012-07-20 15:21:
> Hi,
>
> We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity server.
>
> We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.
>
> We have installed the software,...

Do you have any idea of what version of MQ you have installed ?

> ...and read the documentation, but a lot of the documented commands do not seem to the present.

Such as ?

>
> If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any comments/tips?
>

It would probably be better if you could be more specific
about what your problem is.

Of course there is no general problem with MQ as such.
It's just another piece of software. :-)




> Thanks
> Andrew
>

Do you have any idea of what version of MQ you have installed ?

On 7/20/2012 3:08 PM, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> andrewr04@gmail.com wrote 2012-07-20 15:21:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity
>> server.
>>
>> We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.
>>
>> We have installed the software,...
>
> Do you have any idea of what version of MQ you have installed ?
>
>> ...and read the documentation, but a lot of the documented commands do
>> not seem to the present.
>
> Such as ?
>
>>
>> If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any
>> comments/tips?
>>
>
> It would probably be better if you could be more specific
> about what your problem is.
>
> Of course there is no general problem with MQ as such.
> It's just another piece of software. :-)
>
>
>
>
>> Thanks
>> Andrew
>>
>
> Do you have any idea of what version of MQ you have installed ?

See http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

>

On 2012-07-20 13:21:27 +0000, andrewr04@gmail.com said:

> Hi,
> 
> We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity server.
> 
> We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.
> 
> We have installed the software, and read the documentation, but a lot 
> of the documented commands do not seem to the present.

What commands failed?  Some post-installation WebSphere MQ series DCL commands?

Or are these missing OpenVMS DCL commands of some sort?

As an initial guess, I'd assume that the OpenVMS I64 version V?.? 
server probably didn't get rebooted after the WebSphere MQ 
installation, or somebody didn't manually reload the command tables 
(which can sometimes avoid the reboot).   Rebooting the server 
activates the updated command tables across all users.  If it's not 
WebSphere MQ DCL-based commands, then look for some sort of 
installation or startup or login procedure (script) that wasn't run.

<http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html>

> If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any 
> comments/tips?

Call IBM.  You're just installing WebSphere MQ now, which implies you 
probably have at least some sort of initial software support.  
WebSphere MQ wasn't cheap to buy, either.  Call IBM support, and have 
IBM sort out the error(s) here.

And FWIW: If you're not tied to WebSphere MQ, there's also a ZeroMQ 
port for OpenVMS: <http://www.zeromq.org/community>


-- 
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

andrewr04@gmail.com writes:

>Hi,

>We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity server.

>We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.

>We have installed the software, and read the documentation, but a lot of the documented commands do not seem to the present.

>If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any comments/tips?

Is the VMS MQ the client or the server?  Did you execute the startup .COM 
file?  Did you set your system startup to execute it upon reboot? Did it?
(I ask because I've seen an (unrelated) issue in the VMS startup procedure 
so it didn't execute MQ's client startup upon reboot)

On 7/21/2012 8:44 AM, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> And FWIW: If you're not tied to WebSphere MQ, there's also a ZeroMQ port
> for OpenVMS: <http://www.zeromq.org/community>

There are also other.

RabbitMQ and all the Java ones.

Arne

On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:21:27 PM UTC+2, (unknown) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We are trying to get IBM MQ series running on our OpenVMS Integrity server.
> 
> We want to be able to submit and retrieve files across MQ.
> 
> We have installed the software, and read the documentation, but a lot of the documented commands do not seem to the present.
> 
> If anybody has had experience with this we would realy appreciate any comments/tips?
> 
> Thanks
> Andrew

HI,

The version of IBM MQ series is MQ v6. We have now installed the full product, and the IVP completes sucessfully.

All commands are set up as symbols from a command procedure, or invoked using $ mcr <command>.

The functionality available on OpenVMS is really limited. There are 2 main procedures MQGET and MQPUT to get and put messages onto the que.

In the Windows and Linux version there are also file transfer commands. These are not available on OpenVMS.

We want to be able to transfer files using MQ. We would really appreciate any advice on how to transfer files with ASCII data records using MQ with the MQGET and MQPUT APIs?

THanks you for all you advice, and sorry if the orignal question was a bit vague.

Kind regards
Andrew 

Op maandag 23 juli 2012 16:38:27 UTC+2 schreef (onbekend) het volgende:

It's still vague. For starters, read this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/512807/ibm-mq-for-file-transfer


The OpenVMS MQ implementation is not too different from other platfforms. It is definitely not true that only MQPUT and MQGET are supported. MQ 7.0 is not supported on VMS, so be aware what versions of MQ you compare. Version 7.0 
has some features and add-ons that support file transfer better.

It is possible that the number and nature of demo applications on other OS'es
is greater or different, I don't know. As far as know, none of the demo applications are recommended to be used for production purposes.

My guess is you are less puzzled by VMS than by MQ. So concentrate your
you questions in that direction:

You might want to look in directory MQS_EXAMPLES: for a start.
Actually reading the MQ documentation would not hurt either.
Google will give you a lot of hints, and even some examples.

If you are still puzzled, I would inquire at IBM what your options are. 

I have seen home-written MQ file transfers that were guaranteed to go wrong. 
The perceived reliability your company bought with MQ will not automatically extend to any home written code calling the MQ API's. Be especially aware of
code used on other platforms to either read or write files on VMS.

I would prefer any other file transfer method, but that is not relevant here.

In article <bab2e58e-5cee-4a3e-94e5-f8a548f18a1f@googlegroups.com>, andrewr04@gmail.com writes:
> 
> All commands are set up as symbols from a command procedure, or invoked using $ mcr <command>.
> 
> The functionality available on OpenVMS is really limited. There are 2 main procedures MQGET and MQPUT to get and put messages onto the que.
> 
> In the Windows and Linux version there are also file transfer commands. These are not available on OpenVMS.
> 
> We want to be able to transfer files using MQ. We would really appreciate any advice on how to transfer files with ASCII data records using MQ with the MQGET and MQPUT APIs?

   1)  Please wrap your lines at less than 80 characters, so we can read
      them.

   2)  Are you using the right tool for the job?  I thought MQ was a
      message passing tool, and you need to pass files.

Bob Koehler wrote 2012-07-23 22:50:
> In article <bab2e58e-5cee-4a3e-94e5-f8a548f18a1f@googlegroups.com>,
> andrewr04@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> All commands are set up as symbols from a command procedure, or
>> invoked using $ mcr <command>.
>>
>> The functionality available on OpenVMS is really limited. There are 2
>> main procedures MQGET and MQPUT to get and put messages onto the que.
>>
>> In the Windows and Linux version there are also file transfer
>> commands. These are not available on OpenVMS.
>>
>> We want to be able to transfer files using MQ. We would really
>> appreciate any advice on how to transfer files with ASCII data records
>> using MQ with the MQGET and MQPUT APIs?
>
> 1)  Please wrap your lines at less than 80 characters, so we can read
> them.
>
> 2)  Are you using the right tool for the job?  I thought MQ was a
> message passing tool, and you need to pass files.
>

MQ will happily handle large messages, at least up to 100 MB
if I'm not wrong. Call them "files" if you like, MQ doesn't
realy care where the data come from, it is the application
calling MQ that reads and writes the files.

Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <bab2e58e-5cee-4a3e-94e5-f8a548f18a1f@googlegroups.com>, andrewr04@gmail.com writes:
>> All commands are set up as symbols from a command procedure, or invoked using $ mcr <command>.
>>
>> The functionality available on OpenVMS is really limited. There are 2 main procedures MQGET and MQPUT to get and put messages onto the que.
>>
>> In the Windows and Linux version there are also file transfer commands. These are not available on OpenVMS.
>>
>> We want to be able to transfer files using MQ. We would really appreciate any advice on how to transfer files with ASCII data records using MQ with the MQGET and MQPUT APIs?
> 
>    1)  Please wrap your lines at less than 80 characters, so we can read
>       them.
> 
>    2)  Are you using the right tool for the job?  I thought MQ was a
>       message passing tool, and you need to pass files.
> 

Yeah, what he said ...

If you want to move files, what's wrong with FTP, SFTP, and FTPS ???

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:52:15 AM UTC+2, David Froble wrote:
> Bob Koehler wrote:
> > In article <bab2e58e-5cee-4a3e-94e5-f8a548f18a1f@googlegroups.com>, andrewr04@gmail.com writes:
> >> All commands are set up as symbols from a command procedure, or invoked using $ mcr <command>.
> >>
> >> The functionality available on OpenVMS is really limited. There are 2 main procedures MQGET and MQPUT to get and put messages onto the que.
> >>
> >> In the Windows and Linux version there are also file transfer commands. These are not available on OpenVMS.
> >>
> >> We want to be able to transfer files using MQ. We would really appreciate any advice on how to transfer files with ASCII data records using MQ with the MQGET and MQPUT APIs?
> > 
> >    1)  Please wrap your lines at less than 80 characters, so we can read
> >       them.
> > 
> >    2)  Are you using the right tool for the job?  I thought MQ was a
> >       message passing tool, and you need to pass files.
> > 
> 
> Yeah, what he said ...
> 
> If you want to move files, what's wrong with FTP, SFTP, and FTPS ???

It is complicated.

David Froble wrote 2012-07-24 04:52:
> Bob Koehler wrote:
>> In article <bab2e58e-5cee-4a3e-94e5-f8a548f18a1f@googlegroups.com>,
>> andrewr04@gmail.com writes:
>>> All commands are set up as symbols from a command procedure, or invoked
>>> using $ mcr <command>.
>>>
>>> The functionality available on OpenVMS is really limited. There are 2
>>> main procedures MQGET and MQPUT to get and put messages onto the que.
>>>
>>> In the Windows and Linux version there are also file transfer commands.
>>> These are not available on OpenVMS.
>>>
>>> We want to be able to transfer files using MQ. We would really
>>> appreciate any advice on how to transfer files with ASCII data records
>>> using MQ with the MQGET and MQPUT APIs?
>>
>>    1)  Please wrap your lines at less than 80 characters, so we can read
>>       them.
>>
>>    2)  Are you using the right tool for the job?  I thought MQ was a
>>       message passing tool, and you need to pass files.
>>
>
> Yeah, what he said ...
>
> If you want to move files, what's wrong with FTP, SFTP, and FTPS ???

Could be corparate standards. We don't know. And besides, MQ works OK
even for "moving files". MQ just sees it as a "large message".

We moved our file transfers from a VMS box to the IBM MVS mainframe
from FTP to MQ a few weeks ago. Had been using FTP for 12 years, but
latetely we got more and more trouble with the FTP solution, the
dataset where the file should be FTP'ed was sometimes "locked by
another user" and the FTP session ended with an error on the
VMS side and the VMS application had to deal with that.

Problems that MQ, by the way it is working, doesn't have. From
the VMS application side the "transfer" is always successfull.
Then it is up to MQ to deal with re-transmits and so on.

Our file transfers are now running far smoother over MQ then
over the former FTP solution.

Jan-Erik.

Op dinsdag 24 juli 2012 09:55:26 UTC+2 schreef Jan-Erik Soderholm het volge=
nde:


> dataset where the file should be FTP'ed was sometimes "locked by
> another user" and the FTP session ended with an error on the
> VMS side and the VMS application had to deal with that.
>=20

> Our file transfers are now running far smoother over MQ then
> over the former FTP solution.
>=20

If you have MQ already running, that's an idea. If you don't, you're shooti=
ng a fly with a canon and it's probably a better idea to spend a few minute=
s to improve the obviously flawed FTP solution, e.g. by creating a destinat=
ion file with a unique name and renaming it when transfer has finished, or =
putting it in a todo place, both mimicking the remote queue of MQ.=20

Jose Baars wrote 2012-07-24 10:08:
> Op dinsdag 24 juli 2012 09:55:26 UTC+2 schreef Jan-Erik Soderholm het
> volgende:
>
>
>> dataset where the file should be FTP'ed was sometimes "locked
>> by another user" and the FTP session ended with an error on the
>> VMS side and the VMS application had to deal with that.
>>
>
>> Our file transfers are now running far smoother over MQ then over the
>> former FTP solution.
>>
>
> If you have MQ already running, that's an idea. If you don't, you're
> shooting a fly with a canon and it's probably a better idea to spend a
> few minutes to improve the obviously flawed FTP solution, e.g. by
> creating a destination file with a unique name and renaming it when
> transfer has finished, or putting it in a todo place, both mimicking the
> remote queue of MQ.
>

We didn't had MQ running on *this* particular VMS box. But there was
folks who have been managing MQ on VMS for years. It took an hour
to install and setup the queues. And the receving part was already
in place. It was a breeze more or less.

And regarding the rename and unique names and so on. This is not
done as easily on MVS as on other OS's. Yes, you can send a number
of QUOTE commands over to the MVS system to specify LRECL and all
other allocation parameters, but it does get messy after a while.

Jan-Erik.

Op dinsdag 24 juli 2012 10:18:10 UTC+2 schreef Jan-Erik Soderholm het volgende:

> And regarding the rename and unique names and so on. This is not
> done as easily on MVS as on other OS's.
O, MVS and MQ and MQ experience available. Yes, I understand your choice. 

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:52:15 -0400, David Froble wrote:

> Yeah, what he said ...
> 
> If you want to move files, what's wrong with FTP, SFTP, and FTPS ???

As I understand it, MQ offers a robust way to guarantee that the message 
gets through.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_WebSphere_MQ

"Messages will be delivered once and once only, irrespective of errors 
and network problems."

It runs on multiple platforms so MQ on VMS talks to MQ everywhere else. 
You don't have to delve into the idiosyncrasies of FTP/SFTP etc on 
different platforms.

FWIW at previous job, before moving to MQ we used HYPERchannel in 
preference to FTP etc.  It was impressively fast for its day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Systems_Corporation

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1044.html

We also used something called SUFTP but a brief search on that draws a 
blank.

-- 
Paul Sture

Paul Sture wrote 2012-07-24 12:09:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:52:15 -0400, David Froble wrote:
>
>> Yeah, what he said ...
>>
>> If you want to move files, what's wrong with FTP, SFTP, and FTPS ???
>
> As I understand it, MQ offers a robust way to guarantee that the message
> gets through.
>
>  From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_WebSphere_MQ
>
> "Messages will be delivered once and once only, irrespective of errors
> and network problems."

As far as the application is concerned, the "delivery" is to the local
MQ instance on the local box, and that usualy always is a success.

Then it's up to MQ to deliver the message to where ever it
was destinated.

Is the case I was talking about, it is a full MQ server install
on VMS. You can also install only the client kit it which case
you always need another box with the server part and the
actual MQ-queues. Apart from the two-system solution, that is
from the applications standpoint just the same, it is the same
API's you are calling anyway.

Jan-Erik.



>
> It runs on multiple platforms so MQ on VMS talks to MQ everywhere else.
> You don't have to delve into the idiosyncrasies of FTP/SFTP etc on
> different platforms.
>
> FWIW at previous job, before moving to MQ we used HYPERchannel in
> preference to FTP etc.  It was impressively fast for its day.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Systems_Corporation
>
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1044.html
>
> We also used something called SUFTP but a brief search on that draws a
> blank.
>

On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 11:28:59 UTC+1, Jan-Erik Soderholm  wrote:
> Paul Sture wrote 2012-07-24 12:09:
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:52:15 -0400, David Froble wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, what he said ...
> >>
> >> If you want to move files, what's wrong with FTP, SFTP, and =
FTPS ???
> >
> > As I understand it, MQ offers a robust way to guarantee that the mes=
sage
> > gets through.
> >
> >  From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_WebSphere_MQ
> >
> > "Messages will be delivered once and once only, irrespective of=
 errors
> > and network problems."
>=20
> As far as the application is concerned, the "delivery" is to th=
e local
> MQ instance on the local box, and that usualy always is a success.
>=20
> Then it's up to MQ to deliver the message to where ever it
> was destinated.
>=20
> Is the case I was talking about, it is a full MQ server install
> on VMS. You can also install only the client kit it which case
> you always need another box with the server part and the
> actual MQ-queues. Apart from the two-system solution, that is
> from the applications standpoint just the same, it is the same
> API's you are calling anyway.
>=20
> Jan-Erik.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> > It runs on multiple platforms so MQ on VMS talks to MQ everywhere el=
se.
> > You don't have to delve into the idiosyncrasies of FTP/SFTP etc =
on
> > different platforms.
> >
> > FWIW at previous job, before moving to MQ we used HYPERchannel in
> > preference to FTP etc.  It was impressively fast for its day.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Systems_Corporation
> >
> > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1044.html
> >
> > We also used something called SUFTP but a brief search on that draws=
 a
> > blank.
> >

I concur with other opinions - MQ is an assured message delivery system and=
 usually IBM/Sterling's Connect:Direct would be used for file transfers. Ho=
wever, it is very capable under OpenVMS and MQ Clusters map nicely to VMSCl=
usters. (The symbols are obtained by: @SYS$MANAGER:MQS_SYMBOLS). I also con=
cur with another comment that all the usual MQ API calls are supported unde=
r VMS but the API is only supported from specific languages. C, C++, Cobol =
and a few others.

The IBM supplied examples are called using the foreign command syntax but s=
ome of them are a bit fussy regarding the case. Especially so of the queue =
manager argument.

Here's a noddy compile and link procedure:

$!
$! Compile and link MQ program
$!
$! Gerald Marsh - 1-JAN-2000
$!
$       IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN -
                INQUIRE P1 "Source File"
$!
$       CC/INCLUDE_DIR=3D(MQS_INCLUDE:,SYS$DISK:[]) 'P1'
$       LINK 'P1',SYS$INPUT:/OPTIONS
SYS$SHARE:MQM/SHAREABLE
$       EXIT