I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.

VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.

But...

I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
Google to death already)

1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
can attach disks etc on startup.

2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.

3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt

Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH 
are also welcome.

TIA.

-- 
Paul Sture

Paul Sture wrote:

> Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH
> are also welcome.

Subscribe to the somewhat hidden Simh mailing list at
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

 John H. Reinhardt

In article <1167999813.699928.289570@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
 "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Paul Sture wrote:
> 
> > Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH
> > are also welcome.
> 
> Subscribe to the somewhat hidden Simh mailing list at
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> 

Thanks John.

-- 
Paul Sture

Not sure I uinderstand the questions, but I'll take a stab at it.

In article <paul.sture.nospam-1B07FE.12524605012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>,
	Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> 
> VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.
> 
> But...
> 
> I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
> Google to death already)
> 
> 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
> can attach disks etc on startup.

I just put all the configuration in a file and invoke the command with
that file as a parameter.  See below:

triangle# cd ./SIM/PDP11/Ultrix-11
triangle# ls 
rd52            script 
rd52.dsk        tmp1.dsk        user1.dsk
pdp11           root.dsk        tmp2.dsk
triangle# cat script
set rl0 rl02
set rl1 rl02
set rl2 rl02
set rl3 rl02
at rl0 root.dsk
at rl1 user1.dsk
at rl2 tmp1.dsk
at rl3 tmp2.dsk
set rq0 ra82
at rq0 rd52.dsk
b rl
triangle# ./pdp11 script

PDP-11 simulator V2.10-3

Sizing Memory...  
__
__Boot: rl(0,0)unix    (CTRL/C will abort auto-boot)
__
__Load device (? for help, <RETURN> if none) < ht tm ts tk rx rl rc > ? 
Simulation stopped, PC: 054726 (BIT #200,@120140)
sim> exit
Goodbye
triangle# 

> 
> 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.

Can you do that on most systems?  That's dependant on the hardware, I
think.  I know it doesn't work on my VS3100.  As a matter of fact, the
pnly machine I know that works on is my PDP-11/44.  And it is as much
PITA as an advantage lots of times. (Like, you can't run things like
Kermit or VTserver on the console!)

> 
> 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt

^E (Control-E) does it for me.

> 
> Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH 
> are also welcome.

Don't think its as off-topic here as a lot of stuff!!  :-)

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

In article <paul.sture.nospam-1B07FE.12524605012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>
>
>I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
>
>VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.
>
>But...
>
>I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
>Google to death already)
>
>1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
>can attach disks etc on startup.
>
>2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
>
>3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
>
>Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH 
>are also welcome.

I haven't played with SimH in awhile.  Last time, I think, was two VMS
boot camps ago.  I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power-
Book.  It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking.  Have you
gotten SimH running with networking on OS X?  

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

In article <paul.sture.nospam-1B07FE.12524605012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
>
> VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.
>
> But...
>
> I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
> Google to death already)
>
> 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
> can attach disks etc on startup.

I don't understand the question because to have had installed VMS, you
would have had needed a working configuration file. Colour me confused? :)

Usually all you need is a prepared SIMH configuration file. Let's say,
it's named 'vax.ini'. And let's say the SIMH VAX program is named 'vax'.

Then, all you would need to do in a Terminal window is:

% vax vax.ini

(Where '%' symbolises whatever your prompt is in Terminal.)

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question? If so, could you clarify
further, please?

> 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.

Haven't gotten that to work, so I'm not sure it's possible with SIMH.

> 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt

Which command prompt? :) VMS or MacOS X's?

If back to VMS, then just type 'cont' at the sim> prompt.

If back to MacOS X, just type ctrl-e then 'quit' and press Enter.

(Or better yet, shutdown VMS normally. When it is done, it will dump you
into the sim> prompt. From there, type 'quit' then press Enter.)

I see someone else has suggested the SIMH mailing list. I can attest to
its very helpful community, many of whose users are ex-PDP or ex-VAX.

Cheers,

-Dan

In article <paul.sture.nospam-1B07FE.12524605012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> 
> VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.
> 
> But...
> 
> I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
> Google to death already)
> 
> 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
> can attach disks etc on startup.

   After starting SIMH you can run scripts with the do command.  Takes
   one arguement:  the name of the script file.  By habit I call them .do
   files.

    sim> do myscript.do

In article <5070k9F1el5f5U1@mid.individual.net>,
 bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:

> Not sure I uinderstand the questions, but I'll take a stab at it.
> 
> In article <paul.sture.nospam-1B07FE.12524605012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>,
> 	Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> > 
> > VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.
> > 
> > But...
> > 
> > I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
> > Google to death already)
> > 
> > 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
> > can attach disks etc on startup.
> 
> I just put all the configuration in a file and invoke the command with
> that file as a parameter.  See below:
> 

<snip>

Thanks, that works fine. 


> > 
> > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> 
> Can you do that on most systems?  That's dependant on the hardware, I
> think.  I know it doesn't work on my VS3100.  As a matter of fact, the
> pnly machine I know that works on is my PDP-11/44.  And it is as much
> PITA as an advantage lots of times. (Like, you can't run things like
> Kermit or VTserver on the console!)
>

Control-E did the trick there. The MicroVaxen I saw used a physical 
switch; Control-P was on the 11-780, and certain Alphas since.
 
> > 
> > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> 
> ^E (Control-E) does it for me.
>

Control-C worked for me there. Knowing how to feed SIMH with a script 
gave me the chance (or do I mean patience?) to experiment better.

> > 
> > Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH 
> > are also welcome.
> 
> Don't think its as off-topic here as a lot of stuff!!  :-)
> 

That would be true :-)

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <00A6142D.B2816B9E@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

> I haven't played with SimH in awhile.  Last time, I think, was two VMS
> boot camps ago.  I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power-
> Book.  It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking.  Have you
> gotten SimH running with networking on OS X?  

Networking the thing, or at least seeing how far I get with networking 
is one of my aims here. I wasn't even going there with Panther, but just 
before Christmas I spotted some hopeful looking messages to the effect 
that it might work with Tiger.

So, one Tiger upgrade later, I'm looking at SIMH again...

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <paul.sture.nospam-693E7F.15391405012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>
>
>In article <00A6142D.B2816B9E@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>
>> I haven't played with SimH in awhile.  Last time, I think, was two VMS
>> boot camps ago.  I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power-
>> Book.  It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking.  Have you
>> gotten SimH running with networking on OS X?  
>
>Networking the thing, or at least seeing how far I get with networking 
>is one of my aims here. I wasn't even going there with Panther, but just 
>before Christmas I spotted some hopeful looking messages to the effect 
>that it might work with Tiger.
>
>So, one Tiger upgrade later, I'm looking at SIMH again...

Late to the Tiger cage but welcome to the ambush. ;)  Let me know how
you make out with it.  I may revisit it.

It's too bad that the Charon-VAX thing isn't available on an operating
system and only on that glorified game console. 

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

In article <slrnepslhl.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>,
 Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:

> In article <paul.sture.nospam-1B07FE.12524605012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>, 
> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> >
> > VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK.
> >
> > But...
> >
> > I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed 
> > Google to death already)
> >
> > 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
> > can attach disks etc on startup.
> 
> I don't understand the question because to have had installed VMS, you
> would have had needed a working configuration file. Colour me confused? :)
> 
> Usually all you need is a prepared SIMH configuration file. Let's say,
> it's named 'vax.ini'. And let's say the SIMH VAX program is named 'vax'.
> 

There's the crux of the problem. Because I didn't know how to invoke a 
config file, I was (mis)entering the config commands and ending up in 
knots from that.

> 
> > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> 
> Haven't gotten that to work, so I'm not sure it's possible with SIMH.

At some point I ended up with "VMS closed down, please halt console", 
and that's where I was stuck.

> > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> 
> Which command prompt? :) VMS or MacOS X's?
> 
> If back to VMS, then just type 'cont' at the sim> prompt.
> 
> If back to MacOS X, just type ctrl-e then 'quit' and press Enter.
> 
> (Or better yet, shutdown VMS normally. When it is done, it will dump you
> into the sim> prompt. From there, type 'quit' then press Enter.)
> 

CTRL-C or 'exit' seem to work here. Whatever, I feel some documentation 
coming on :-)

> I see someone else has suggested the SIMH mailing list. I can attest to
> its very helpful community, many of whose users are ex-PDP or ex-VAX.
> 

They've also got a load of downloadable message archives - I think I'll 
start there before leaping in.

-- 
Paul Sture

on 5-1-2007 17:24 VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote...

[snip]

> It's too bad that the Charon-VAX thing isn't available on an operating
> system and only on that glorified game console. 

Charon-VAX is also available on an operating system: it runs on top of 
Alpha-VMS as well as your "game console".

Wilm

In article <00A61444.81DC0E08@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

> In article <paul.sture.nospam-693E7F.15391405012007@mac.sture.homeip.net>, 
> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> >
> >
> >In article <00A6142D.B2816B9E@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
> > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> >
> >> I haven't played with SimH in awhile.  Last time, I think, was two VMS
> >> boot camps ago.  I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power-
> >> Book.  It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking.  Have you
> >> gotten SimH running with networking on OS X?  
> >
> >Networking the thing, or at least seeing how far I get with networking 
> >is one of my aims here. I wasn't even going there with Panther, but just 
> >before Christmas I spotted some hopeful looking messages to the effect 
> >that it might work with Tiger.
> >
> >So, one Tiger upgrade later, I'm looking at SIMH again...
> 
> Late to the Tiger cage but welcome to the ambush. ;)  Let me know how
> you make out with it.  I may revisit it.
> 

Better late than never. I'll let you know how it goes.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <OwAz0vhbIMkP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
 koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:

>   After starting SIMH you can run scripts with the do command.  Takes
>    one arguement:  the name of the script file.  By habit I call them .do
>    files.
> 
>     sim> do myscript.do

Noted thanks.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <459e9079$0$32136$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w5OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl> writes:
>
>
>on 5-1-2007 17:24 VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote...
>
>[snip]
>
>> It's too bad that the Charon-VAX thing isn't available on an operating
>> system and only on that glorified game console. 
>
>Charon-VAX is also available on an operating system: it runs on top of 
>Alpha-VMS as well as your "game console".

I don't have a game console; I find more useful things to spend my money
on -- like food and medication -- than on toys to make a certain Redmond
organization wealthier.

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

Wilm Boerhout <w5OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl> wrote:

> on 5-1-2007 17:24 VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote...
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> It's too bad that the Charon-VAX thing isn't available on an operating
>> system and only on that glorified game console. 
> 
> Charon-VAX is also available on an operating system: it runs on top of 
> Alpha-VMS as well as your "game console".

There's even a (somewhat limited) freeware version available which runs on 
OpenVMS/I64. [1]

Hans.

[1] http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/Tools_and_tips.htm#freeipf

Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:
> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
>> I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
....
>> 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I 
>> can attach disks etc on startup.
> 
> I don't understand the question because to have had installed VMS, you
> would have had needed a working configuration file. Colour me confused? :)
> 
> Usually all you need is a prepared SIMH configuration file. Let's say,
> it's named 'vax.ini'. And let's say the SIMH VAX program is named 'vax'.
> 
> Then, all you would need to do in a Terminal window is:
> 
> % vax vax.ini

....and if you name the .ini file after your executable name, SimH will
even find it automagically when started without parameters. That is, for
the above case, starting "vax" without parameters should do the same thing.

Disclaimer: Due to VMS version numbers, the mechanism (take the image
name, cut off any executable extension, add ".ini") does not work on
OpenVMS Alpha (nor, I'd think, I64). I have patched scp.c to make it
work there, too.

cu,
  Martin
-- 
So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!
for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
            1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de

On Jan 5, 1:41 pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> I haven't played with SimH in awhile.  Last time, I think, was two VMS
> boot camps ago.  I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power-
> Book.  It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking.  Have you
> gotten SimH running with networking on OS X?
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

I have had it working for a while now... DECnet, IP & LAT
work just fine.

Dave

Dave,

What version of OS X are you running? My guess would be 10.4.x? I was
never able to get networking to fly on my 10.3.9 system.

On Jan 8, 7:29 pm, "Galen" <gltack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> What version of OS X are you running? My guess would be 10.4.x? I was
> never able to get networking to fly on my 10.3.9 system.

Yes it is 10.4.x.  I did have it running once on a
10.3.x system but then changes were made to simh
and it broke :-(

Dave

 > I did have it running once on a
10.3.x system but then changes were made to simh
and it broke :-(

Been there, done that, still have the bruises to prove it (from beating
my head against the wall. :-)

In article <1168262812.988841.10400@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
 "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:

> On Jan 8, 7:29 pm, "Galen" <gltack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > What version of OS X are you running? My guess would be 10.4.x? I was
> > never able to get networking to fly on my 10.3.9 system.
> 
> Yes it is 10.4.x.  I did have it running once on a
> 10.3.x system but then changes were made to simh
> and it broke :-(
> 

Do you need a second NIC to get the networking going?

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <1168214304.211716.87660@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes:
>
>
>
>
>On Jan 5, 1:41 pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> I haven't played with SimH in awhile.  Last time, I think, was two VMS
>> boot camps ago.  I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power-
>> Book.  It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking.  Have you
>> gotten SimH running with networking on OS X?
>>
>> --
>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
>
>I have had it working for a while now... DECnet, IP & LAT
>work just fine.

Do you have a pre-built executable I could try?

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> "Galen" <gltack...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > What version of OS X are you running? My guess would be 10.4.x? I was
>> > never able to get networking to fly on my 10.3.9 system.
>> 
>> Yes it is 10.4.x.  I did have it running once on a
>> 10.3.x system but then changes were made to simh
>> and it broke :-(
> 
> Do you need a second NIC to get the networking going?

No. SimH uses the pcap library which puts the network card into
promisuous mode and sorts out packets for the emulator's MAC address.
Not very effective but cheap...

cu,
  Martin
-- 
  OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!
   The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
   God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
   earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de

Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:

> I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.

[snip]

> 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.

> 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt

Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...

SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
for the KS10 emulator is

	deposit WRU 034

to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).

You can change your VAX setup the same way.

And using ^C to exit the simulator is probably a bad idea, as filesystems may
get left in an inconsistent state.  Escape to the prompt and exit.

-- 
Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |
news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |
"You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |
                         --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |

On Jan 8, 6:32 pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <1168214304.211716.87...@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "David B Sneddon" <dbsned...@bigpond.com> writes:
>
>
> >I have had it working for a while now... DECnet, IP & LAT
> >work just fine.
>
> Do you have a pre-built executable I could try?

I do, but I don't think it will be of much use unless
you have installed the correct version of libpcap.
Once you have that, it will build fine from the kit.

>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

You are also aware that you need to run it via
sudo so that you have sufficient privilege to put
the interface into promiscuous mode?

Dave

In article <45a2971f.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,
 martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:

> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> > "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >> "Galen" <gltack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > What version of OS X are you running? My guess would be 10.4.x? I was
> >> > never able to get networking to fly on my 10.3.9 system.
> >> 
> >> Yes it is 10.4.x.  I did have it running once on a
> >> 10.3.x system but then changes were made to simh
> >> and it broke :-(
> > 
> > Do you need a second NIC to get the networking going?
> 
> No. SimH uses the pcap library which puts the network card into
> promisuous mode and sorts out packets for the emulator's MAC address.
> Not very effective but cheap...
> 

Thanks. Do the comments in the SIMH FAQ about wireless cards not being 
able to use DECNET Phase IV (or Phase V in compatibility mode) also 
apply with the pcap library?

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <mddzm8tgqgo.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:

> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> 
> > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> 
> > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> 
> Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...
> 
> SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
> character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
> to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
> EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
> for the KS10 emulator is
> 
> 	deposit WRU 034
> 
> to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).
> 
> You can change your VAX setup the same way.

That's excellent news, since by habit I use CTRL-E in the command line 
editor. More often than I thought, as I keep finding myself at the Simh> 
prompt and need to Continue.

> 
> And using ^C to exit the simulator is probably a bad idea, as filesystems may
> get left in an inconsistent state.  Escape to the prompt and exit.

OK.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <mddzm8tgqgo.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:

> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> 
> > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> 
> > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> 
> Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...
> 
> SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
> character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
> to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
> EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
> for the KS10 emulator is
> 
> 	deposit WRU 034
> 
> to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).
> 
> You can change your VAX setup the same way.
> 

After using 'deposit WRU 034' :

The good news- CTRL-E no longer drops me to the sim> prompt.

The Bad news - typing a "4" drops me to the sim> prompt.

:-(

-- 
Paul Sture

Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:
>> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
>> > Do you need a second NIC to get the networking going?
>> 
>> No. SimH uses the pcap library which puts the network card into
>> promisuous mode and sorts out packets for the emulator's MAC address.
> 
> Thanks. Do the comments in the SIMH FAQ about wireless cards not being 
> able to use DECNET Phase IV (or Phase V in compatibility mode) also 
> apply with the pcap library?

I haven't yet used WLAN with SIMH. Thanks for the pointer, though
(got to skim over the docs more often, I guess).

As all SIMH networking (I know of) uses libpcap, I'd think the WLAN
restrictions hold for that, too.

One other restriction of libpcap is that the simulated machine can't
talk to its host system over the "real" ethernet card (unless it loops
back to a second NIC on the host). The workaround is to use a TAP device
to set up a second, virtual ethernet for that connection.

cu,
  Martin
-- 
  OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!
   The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
   God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
   earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:26:31 UTC, Rich Alderson 
<news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:

> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> 
> > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> 
> > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> 
> Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...
> 
> SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
> character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
> to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
> EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
> for the KS10 emulator is
> 
> 	deposit WRU 034
> 
> to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).
> 
> You can change your VAX setup the same way.
> 
> And using ^C to exit the simulator is probably a bad idea, as filesystems may
> get left in an inconsistent state.  Escape to the prompt and exit.

Thanks for that Rich. Like Paul, I use ANSI Ctrl-E line editing 
commands a lot!!


-- 
Cheers - Dave W.

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:59:17 UTC, Paul Sture 
<paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:

> In article <mddzm8tgqgo.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
>  Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
> 
> > Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> > 
> > > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> > 
> > > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> > 
> > Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...
> > 
> > SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
> > character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
> > to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
> > EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
> > for the KS10 emulator is
> > 
> > 	deposit WRU 034
> > 
> > to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).
> > 
> > You can change your VAX setup the same way.
> > 
> 
> After using 'deposit WRU 034' :
> 
> The good news- CTRL-E no longer drops me to the sim> prompt.
> 
> The Bad news - typing a "4" drops me to the sim> prompt.
> 
> :-(
> 

Paul 
          that sounds like you've entered 34 (decimal) and not 034 
(octal), which is what I thinkl Rich intended. Maybe it's a function 
of default radix.  I haven't time to check tho' I'm afraid.

-- 
Cheers - Dave W.

In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dFMUHs56944G@dave2_os2.home.ours>,
 "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:59:17 UTC, Paul Sture 
> <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> 
> > In article <mddzm8tgqgo.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
> >  Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> > > 
> > > > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> > > 
> > > [snip]
> > > 
> > > > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> > > 
> > > > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> > > 
> > > Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...
> > > 
> > > SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
> > > character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
> > > to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
> > > EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
> > > for the KS10 emulator is
> > > 
> > > 	deposit WRU 034
> > > 
> > > to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).
> > > 
> > > You can change your VAX setup the same way.
> > > 
> > 
> > After using 'deposit WRU 034' :
> > 
> > The good news- CTRL-E no longer drops me to the sim> prompt.
> > 
> > The Bad news - typing a "4" drops me to the sim> prompt.
> > 
> > :-(
> > 
> 
> Paul 
>           that sounds like you've entered 34 (decimal) and not 034 
> (octal), which is what I thinkl Rich intended. Maybe it's a function 
> of default radix.  I haven't time to check tho' I'm afraid.

Yep, "4" = %X34

So, it's interpreting the number as hexadecimal:

$ d=%o34
$ sh sym d
  D = 28   Hex = 0000001C  Octal = 00000000034

sim> deposit wru 1C
sim> c

Just the ticket - CTRL-\ is now the escape character, and that's even 
safer for me, as I have to deliberately switch to US keyboard layout to 
achieve that :-)

-- 
Paul Sture

On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:10:17 UTC, Paul Sture 
<paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:

> In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dFMUHs56944G@dave2_os2.home.ours>,
>  "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:59:17 UTC, Paul Sture 
> > <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <mddzm8tgqgo.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
> > >  Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> > > > 
> > > > > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system.
> > > > 
> > > > [snip]
> > > > 
> > > > > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work.
> > > > 
> > > > > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt
> > > > 
> > > > Now that we know that questions 2 & 3 are linked...
> > > > 
> > > > SimH has a "processor register" called WRU that represents the interrupt
> > > > character for returning to SimH from the simulated system.  It defaults
> > > > to 005 (^E), which is deadly for Tops-20 since all privileged commands in
> > > > EXEC start with that character, so the first line in my init/command files
> > > > for the KS10 emulator is
> > > > 
> > > > 	deposit WRU 034
> > > > 
> > > > to get the ^\ proper to the KL10 and KS10 (and follow-ons).
> > > > 
> > > > You can change your VAX setup the same way.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > After using 'deposit WRU 034' :
> > > 
> > > The good news- CTRL-E no longer drops me to the sim> prompt.
> > > 
> > > The Bad news - typing a "4" drops me to the sim> prompt.
> > > 
> > > :-(
> > > 
> > 
> > Paul 
> >           that sounds like you've entered 34 (decimal) and not 034 
> > (octal), which is what I thinkl Rich intended. Maybe it's a function 
> > of default radix.  I haven't time to check tho' I'm afraid.
> 
> Yep, "4" = %X34
> 
> So, it's interpreting the number as hexadecimal:
> 
> $ d=%o34
> $ sh sym d
>   D = 28   Hex = 0000001C  Octal = 00000000034
> 
> sim> deposit wru 1C
> sim> c
> 
> Just the ticket - CTRL-\ is now the escape character, and that's even 
> safer for me, as I have to deliberately switch to US keyboard layout to 
> achieve that :-)

Grand, I'll remember that when I get on with Simh again at the w/e.

-- 
Cheers - Dave W.

In article <1168295162.229838.40670@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:

> On Jan 8, 6:32 pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> > In article <1168214304.211716.87...@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "David B 
> > Sneddon" <dbsned...@bigpond.com> writes:
> >
> >
> > >I have had it working for a while now... DECnet, IP & LAT
> > >work just fine.
> >
> > Do you have a pre-built executable I could try?
> 
> I do, but I don't think it will be of much use unless
> you have installed the correct version of libpcap.
> Once you have that, it will build fine from the kit.
> 
> You are also aware that you need to run it via
> sudo so that you have sufficient privilege to put
> the interface into promiscuous mode?
> 

Update.

I've found out that you don't need to run it via sudo. You can change 
the ownership of /dev/bpf* - though I'm in unfamiliar territory here, 
and don't know the potential security pitfalls *there*. Perhaps someone 
knowledgeable in Unix could comment on that...

Having got my Simh VMS system talking to the outside world to fetch ECOs 
etc, I then discovered that I could no longer reach the Mac from the 
outside world. This turned out to be the port forwarding behaviour of my 
router. As opposed to previous routers I have owned, with this one you 
specify the MAC address rather than the IP address. As a result, 
incoming connections were being routed to the Simh/VAX IP address rather 
than the Mac one. The only cure was to reboot the router.

This took some prolonged head scratching (and a few curses on the way) 
:-)

The solution there for me was to use my Airport card as well as the 
normal ethernet connection and use different MAC addresses for the 
Simh/VAX and the Mac itself.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <paul.sture.nospam-0FBFF7.20371517012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>
>
>In article <1168295162.229838.40670@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 8, 6:32 pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> > In article <1168214304.211716.87...@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "David B 
>> > Sneddon" <dbsned...@bigpond.com> writes:
>> >
>> >
>> > >I have had it working for a while now... DECnet, IP & LAT
>> > >work just fine.
>> >
>> > Do you have a pre-built executable I could try?
>> 
>> I do, but I don't think it will be of much use unless
>> you have installed the correct version of libpcap.
>> Once you have that, it will build fine from the kit.
>> 
>> You are also aware that you need to run it via
>> sudo so that you have sufficient privilege to put
>> the interface into promiscuous mode?
>> 
>
>Update.
>
>I've found out that you don't need to run it via sudo. You can change 
>the ownership of /dev/bpf* - though I'm in unfamiliar territory here, 
>and don't know the potential security pitfalls *there*. Perhaps someone 
>knowledgeable in Unix could comment on that...
>
>Having got my Simh VMS system talking to the outside world to fetch ECOs 
>etc, I then discovered that I could no longer reach the Mac from the 
>outside world. This turned out to be the port forwarding behaviour of my 
>router. As opposed to previous routers I have owned, with this one you 
>specify the MAC address rather than the IP address. As a result, 
>incoming connections were being routed to the Simh/VAX IP address rather 
>than the Mac one. The only cure was to reboot the router.
>
>This took some prolonged head scratching (and a few curses on the way) 
>:-)
>
>The solution there for me was to use my Airport card as well as the 
>normal ethernet connection and use different MAC addresses for the 
>Simh/VAX and the Mac itself.

Now I have a couple of questions.

1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
   was quite a CPU hog.

2. Can you access both the SimH/VAX and the Mac OS X?  

3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
   ning on the Mac?


-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> Now I have a couple of questions.
>
> 1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
>    was quite a CPU hog.

Yes it is a bit of a CPU hog but MacOS seems to handle it well
and you can do other things when simh is running.

> 2. Can you access both the SimH/VAX and the Mac OS X?

Yes, for example I can ssh from work into my iMac, start simh
then use DECnet over IP from work into the simh/VAX.

> 3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
>    ning on the Mac?

Don't know about that one, never tried it.
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

Dave

In article <00A61DD8.CC30AC50@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

> In article <paul.sture.nospam-0FBFF7.20371517012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> >
> >
> >Update.
> >
> >I've found out that you don't need to run it via sudo. You can change 
> >the ownership of /dev/bpf* - though I'm in unfamiliar territory here, 
> >and don't know the potential security pitfalls *there*. Perhaps someone 
> >knowledgeable in Unix could comment on that...
> >
> >Having got my Simh VMS system talking to the outside world to fetch ECOs 
> >etc, I then discovered that I could no longer reach the Mac from the 
> >outside world. This turned out to be the port forwarding behaviour of my 
> >router. As opposed to previous routers I have owned, with this one you 
> >specify the MAC address rather than the IP address. As a result, 
> >incoming connections were being routed to the Simh/VAX IP address rather 
> >than the Mac one. The only cure was to reboot the router.
> >
> >This took some prolonged head scratching (and a few curses on the way) 
> >:-)
> >
> >The solution there for me was to use my Airport card as well as the 
> >normal ethernet connection and use different MAC addresses for the 
> >Simh/VAX and the Mac itself.
> 
> Now I have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
>    was quite a CPU hog.

Yes. Simh runs in "nice" mode - at a lower priority. It appears to soak 
up all the idle CPU, but I'm not seeing any slowdown due to that. Heavy 
I/O isn't too friendly, but that's the case for Mac apps anyway on this 
system.

> 2. Can you access both the SimH/VAX and the Mac OS X?  
>

Access from where? I can use the router's port forwarding to connect 
with, say, telnet on one and ftp on the other. However, I can't yet ping 
between the two (I thought I could at one stage, but not at the moment).

> 3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
>    ning on the Mac?

Not until I can at least ping between the two - I'm not sure I trust my 
router (which is doing the wireless connection too) to be doing the 
right thing here...

Sigh, it's late here now; I'll have another go tomorrow, and see what 
tcpdump et al reveal.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <paul.sture.nospam-57BA40.02092918012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> In article <00A61DD8.CC30AC50@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
>  VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>
>> In article <paul.sture.nospam-0FBFF7.20371517012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
>> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>> >
>> >Update.
>> >
>> >I've found out that you don't need to run it via sudo. You can change 
>> >the ownership of /dev/bpf* - though I'm in unfamiliar territory here, 
>> >and don't know the potential security pitfalls *there*. Perhaps someone 
>> >knowledgeable in Unix could comment on that...

I would strongly recommend against that as it opens you up to the
possibility of less ethical users or applications listening to
everything that passes to/from you on the network -- private data,
usernames, passwords, website account information, etc. Not all users
are ethical -- i.e., hackers/crackers or virus writers. :)

sudo is by far the safest way to invoke SIMH if you desire networking.

>> Now I have a couple of questions.
>> 
>> 1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
>>    was quite a CPU hog.
>
> Yes. Simh runs in "nice" mode - at a lower priority. It appears to soak 
> up all the idle CPU, but I'm not seeing any slowdown due to that. Heavy 
> I/O isn't too friendly, but that's the case for Mac apps anyway on this 
> system.

Villy Madsen published a patch for SIMH to make it less CPU-hungry when
the emulated virtual machine is idle. That has threefold use:

	1) Doesn't drive the processor as hard -- runs cooler and
	   reduces need for fan to kick in at high RPMs [noisy]

	2) Lower CPU use saves on battery use

	3) A more responsive underlying system for running other apps

To locate the SIMH throttle patch (some 200K-ish?):

        http://68.150.97.212/simh/                                              

	or if not up, then try here instead:

        http://www.members.shaw.ca/villy.madsen                                 

I've seen Villy here on c.o.v in the past so he may be able to answer
questions regarding his patch or we may be able to assist.

-Dan

In article <paul.sture.nospam-57BA40.02092918012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>
>
>In article <00A61DD8.CC30AC50@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>
>> In article <paul.sture.nospam-0FBFF7.20371517012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
>> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >Update.
>> >
>> >I've found out that you don't need to run it via sudo. You can change 
>> >the ownership of /dev/bpf* - though I'm in unfamiliar territory here, 
>> >and don't know the potential security pitfalls *there*. Perhaps someone 
>> >knowledgeable in Unix could comment on that...
>> >
>> >Having got my Simh VMS system talking to the outside world to fetch ECOs 
>> >etc, I then discovered that I could no longer reach the Mac from the 
>> >outside world. This turned out to be the port forwarding behaviour of my 
>> >router. As opposed to previous routers I have owned, with this one you 
>> >specify the MAC address rather than the IP address. As a result, 
>> >incoming connections were being routed to the Simh/VAX IP address rather 
>> >than the Mac one. The only cure was to reboot the router.
>> >
>> >This took some prolonged head scratching (and a few curses on the way) 
>> >:-)
>> >
>> >The solution there for me was to use my Airport card as well as the 
>> >normal ethernet connection and use different MAC addresses for the 
>> >Simh/VAX and the Mac itself.
>> 
>> Now I have a couple of questions.
>> 
>> 1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
>>    was quite a CPU hog.
>
>Yes. Simh runs in "nice" mode - at a lower priority. It appears to soak 
>up all the idle CPU, but I'm not seeing any slowdown due to that. Heavy 
>I/O isn't too friendly, but that's the case for Mac apps anyway on this 
>system.

What are you running it on?  I have a 17" Powerbook G4. It would be nice
to have a portable VMS box.

I'd given up on Simh/VAX when I got my EVDO card.  I now have internet
pretty much anywhere I go -- even in a moving car on the highway.  I've
got a hack that allows me to close the Powerbook without having it go to
sleep.  I can now listen to streaming internet radio (wonder which radio
that might be :roll: ) with the Powerbook safely and securely strapped 
down.  Anyway, back to VMS... I can ssh into my systems at home and do
whatever I would do on VMS as if it was there on my Powerbook and I can
access VAX, Alpha and Itanium too; Simh/VAX is only VAX.

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

In article <00A61DD8.CC30AC50@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> Now I have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
>    was quite a CPU hog.

   SIMH out of the box is a 100% CPU load.  There's a patch around to
   make it slow down when VMS is idle.

> 2. Can you access both the SimH/VAX and the Mac OS X?  

   Yep.

> 3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
>    ning on the Mac?

   Probably requires two NICs, like it does on Windows.  Generally you
   can get one NIC to be shareable to/from outside machines, but nothing 
   knows how to route between the two OS sharing the NIC.

   It would be fairly trivial to write an X11 reflector to run on a
   third system.  If you used Multinet's IP-DECnet X11 gateway you could
   use two of these to affect such a connection (I've done this, but
   not with SIMH).

   IIRC you're using UCX in the VAXcave.  I'd think an X11 reflector would
   be a trivial modification to any of the example servers and clients
   in SYS$EXAMPLES.  Maybe I'll have a go at it one of these days, I
   haven't put anything new on the Freeware in years.

In article <slrneqtj15.6ea.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>,
 Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:

> In article <paul.sture.nospam-57BA40.02092918012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> > In article <00A61DD8.CC30AC50@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
> >  VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> >
> >> In article <paul.sture.nospam-0FBFF7.20371517012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
> >> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> >> >
> >> >Update.
> >> >
> >> >I've found out that you don't need to run it via sudo. You can change 
> >> >the ownership of /dev/bpf* - though I'm in unfamiliar territory here, 
> >> >and don't know the potential security pitfalls *there*. Perhaps someone 
> >> >knowledgeable in Unix could comment on that...
> 
> I would strongly recommend against that as it opens you up to the
> possibility of less ethical users or applications listening to
> everything that passes to/from you on the network -- private data,
> usernames, passwords, website account information, etc. Not all users
> are ethical -- i.e., hackers/crackers or virus writers. :)
> 

Got you. No other users on this system, but it would only take one piece 
of malware...

> sudo is by far the safest way to invoke SIMH if you desire networking.

The direction I was thinking of was to run it in a dedicated account, 
running nothing else there. I've already determined that ACLs only work 
on the file system, and not devices on OS X. I wonder what gave me the 
idea of trying that approach? :-)

> >> Now I have a couple of questions.
> >> 
> >> 1. Can you still use the Mac when SimH/VAX is running?  I recall it
> >>    was quite a CPU hog.
> >
> > Yes. Simh runs in "nice" mode - at a lower priority. It appears to soak 
> > up all the idle CPU, but I'm not seeing any slowdown due to that. Heavy 
> > I/O isn't too friendly, but that's the case for Mac apps anyway on this 
> > system.
> 
> Villy Madsen published a patch for SIMH to make it less CPU-hungry when
> the emulated virtual machine is idle. That has threefold use:
> 
> 	1) Doesn't drive the processor as hard -- runs cooler and
> 	   reduces need for fan to kick in at high RPMs [noisy]
>

I've only heard the fan kick in at full noise about twice in the 
lifetime of this system.

> 	2) Lower CPU use saves on battery use

Good point, especially with the newer, faster CPUs. At the moment I'm 
not using mine as a portable, so battery use isn't so important.

> 	3) A more responsive underlying system for running other apps
> 
> To locate the SIMH throttle patch (some 200K-ish?):
> 
>         http://68.150.97.212/simh/                                            
>           
> 
> 	or if not up, then try here instead:
> 
>         http://www.members.shaw.ca/villy.madsen                               
>           
> 
> I've seen Villy here on c.o.v in the past so he may be able to answer
> questions regarding his patch or we may be able to assist.
> 

Thanks, I'll look at that.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <00A61E5E.913C2E22@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

> In article <paul.sture.nospam-57BA40.02092918012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> >
> >Yes. Simh runs in "nice" mode - at a lower priority. It appears to soak 
> >up all the idle CPU, but I'm not seeing any slowdown due to that. Heavy 
> >I/O isn't too friendly, but that's the case for Mac apps anyway on this 
> >system.
> 
> What are you running it on?  I have a 17" Powerbook G4. It would be nice
> to have a portable VMS box.

I'm still on on 600 MHz G3 iBook. It may be far from the latest and 
greatest, but it can be happily running hefty compiles, running Simh and 
doing audio edits at the same time. The speed of VMS on Simh reminds me 
how slow VAXen could be in real life for intensive DCL usage such as 
VMSINSTAL (and the fact that my standard installation kit used to 
include some good hard copy reading material).

> I'd given up on Simh/VAX when I got my EVDO card.  I now have internet
> pretty much anywhere I go -- even in a moving car on the highway.  I've
> got a hack that allows me to close the Powerbook without having it go to
> sleep.

That's a startling contrast to my experience only a couple of years ago. 
Meanwhile now and here, I think absolutely nothing about downloading the 
likes of Xcode (the OS X Developer Tooliit) at > 900 MB. It really is 
easier to do a download than chop it up onto a couple of CDs then put 
the bits together again when needed.

> I can now listen to streaming internet radio (wonder which radio
> that might be :roll: ) with the Powerbook safely and securely strapped 
> down.  Anyway, back to VMS... I can ssh into my systems at home and do
> whatever I would do on VMS as if it was there on my Powerbook and I can
> access VAX, Alpha and Itanium too; Simh/VAX is only VAX.

On the music front, I have recently started enjoying BBC Radio 2's 
offerings in the evenings - quite a mix of all sorts including Big 
Bands, Swing, documentaries on rock (new and old), and a bit of 
classical. What is really good about these programmes is that the 
presenters don't just announce the music played but give background 
history to put it into context.

RealPlayer is required for the BBC programmes - I record them directly 
to disk and then edit the results later to get stuff I want into iTunes 
or onto CD.

And to stay on topic, I can be working with VMS at the same time. :-)

-- 
Paul Sture

Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>> 3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
>>    ning on the Mac?
> 
>   Probably requires two NICs, like it does on Windows.  Generally you
>   can get one NIC to be shareable to/from outside machines, but nothing 
>   knows how to route between the two OS sharing the NIC.

I have SimH running on my WinXP notebook with local DECwindows. The
trick is to have a virtual NIC inside the machine to connect SimH to its
host. I use the TAP-Win32-Adapter of the OpenVPN project (www.openvpn.org).

I had it on a (now dead) notebook that ran Linux, too - look for "TUN/TAP
bridge".

cu,
  Martin
-- 
                       |  Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!
  OpenVMS: When you    |  work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
  KNOW where you want  |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
  to go today.         |  home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de

In article <paul.sture.nospam-F386E4.17114018012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>{...snip...}
>On the music front, I have recently started enjoying BBC Radio 2's 
>offerings in the evenings - quite a mix of all sorts including Big 
>Bands, Swing, documentaries on rock (new and old), and a bit of 
>classical. What is really good about these programmes is that the 
>presenters don't just announce the music played but give background 
>history to put it into context.
>
>RealPlayer is required for the BBC programmes - I record them directly 
>to disk and then edit the results later to get stuff I want into iTunes 
>or onto CD.
>
>And to stay on topic, I can be working with VMS at the same time. :-)

Check out Aural Moon (auralmoon.com).  It runs out of my basement and it
is even listed on the iTunes radio listings under "classic rock".  It is
currently running on an Itanium server running linix (using apache, php,
MySQL and Joomla).  I am hoping to migrate the whole beast to OpenVMS in
the not too distant future (assuming I can find copius ammounts of time
not all ready allocated to other interests).  

I did find something very interesting in the past few days concerning my
Itanium box running Linux.  I'm not sure if it is hardware or if it is a
limitation of the driver in Linux.  I was experiencing some problems on
my T1 connection so I unplugged all of the lines into the router and be-
gan a week long argument with Verizon about the loop.  Eventually, they
came out and ran a new loop and installed new termination equipment.  In
the interim, I put the Linux server into my 100baseT switch.  When my T1
was back up, I removed the cable from the switch and put it back in the
router (which has only 10baseT interfaces).  Ethernet fragments galore!
It seems that the ethernet port (or its driver) settle up on the type of
ethernet it is attached to when the interface is first brough up with an
'ifup'.  I experimented with the other Itanium running VMS and it does
not produce the same problem so I suspect the Linux driver; however, my
Linux box is an older 1.4GHz Itanium and the VMS box is a newer 1.5GHz 
box.  Also, the Linux box is the beast with the failed management console
as well.  I think it is just the Intel box from hell.  Maybe the HP on
it stands for Hell Processor. :D

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

In article <45afb57b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:
> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
>> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>> 3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
>>>    ning on the Mac?
>> 
>>   Probably requires two NICs, like it does on Windows.  Generally you
>>   can get one NIC to be shareable to/from outside machines, but nothing 
>>   knows how to route between the two OS sharing the NIC.
> 
> I have SimH running on my WinXP notebook with local DECwindows. The
> trick is to have a virtual NIC inside the machine to connect SimH to its
> host. I use the TAP-Win32-Adapter of the OpenVPN project (www.openvpn.org).
> 
> I had it on a (now dead) notebook that ran Linux, too - look for "TUN/TAP
> bridge".

   Ahh, cool.  I'll have to try that.

In article <00A61E96.CD7679F1@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

> In article <paul.sture.nospam-F386E4.17114018012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> >{...snip...}
> >On the music front, I have recently started enjoying BBC Radio 2's 
> >offerings in the evenings - quite a mix of all sorts including Big 
> >Bands, Swing, documentaries on rock (new and old), and a bit of 
> >classical. What is really good about these programmes is that the 
> >presenters don't just announce the music played but give background 
> >history to put it into context.
> >
> >RealPlayer is required for the BBC programmes - I record them directly 
> >to disk and then edit the results later to get stuff I want into iTunes 
> >or onto CD.
> >
> >And to stay on topic, I can be working with VMS at the same time. :-)
> 
> Check out Aural Moon (auralmoon.com).  It runs out of my basement and it
> is even listed on the iTunes radio listings under "classic rock".  It is
> currently running on an Itanium server running linix (using apache, php,
> MySQL and Joomla).  I am hoping to migrate the whole beast to OpenVMS in
> the not too distant future (assuming I can find copius ammounts of time
> not all ready allocated to other interests).  
>

I've found Aural Moon thanks. The first attempt returned an error 
something like "no free channels", which may want to look into to, but I 
got in fine later on. The Joomla stuff looks interesting, though I 
suspect it involves the dreaded Javascript. It would certainly be nice 
to see Aural Moon running on OpenVMS.

> I did find something very interesting in the past few days concerning my
> Itanium box running Linux.  I'm not sure if it is hardware or if it is a
> limitation of the driver in Linux.  I was experiencing some problems on
> my T1 connection so I unplugged all of the lines into the router and be-
> gan a week long argument with Verizon about the loop.  Eventually, they
> came out and ran a new loop and installed new termination equipment.  In
> the interim, I put the Linux server into my 100baseT switch.  When my T1
> was back up, I removed the cable from the switch and put it back in the
> router (which has only 10baseT interfaces).  Ethernet fragments galore!
> It seems that the ethernet port (or its driver) settle up on the type of
> ethernet it is attached to when the interface is first brough up with an
> 'ifup'.  I experimented with the other Itanium running VMS and it does
> not produce the same problem so I suspect the Linux driver; however, my
> Linux box is an older 1.4GHz Itanium and the VMS box is a newer 1.5GHz 
> box.  Also, the Linux box is the beast with the failed management console
> as well.  I think it is just the Intel box from hell.  Maybe the HP on
> it stands for Hell Processor. :D

Just a thought, but I came across an article a couple of days ago about 
a particular version of the Linux kernel being broken for NFS. Maybe NFS 
isn't the only problem there.

But I'd also suspect the router here. When I had the Alpha with 2 NICs 
connected directly to mine, the 2nd NIC would always come back offline 
after a reboot, along with a gazillion Phase V OPCOM messages. Pulling 
then reinserting the cable fixed that but was a pain to have to do. 
Putting a 10/100 hub between the Alpha and the router solved the 
problem, and I no longer needed to nail the Alpha interfaces down to 10 
Mb/s.

On the Simh/iBook problem, I'm thinking of looking for a wireless to LAN 
box so that my router would clearly see 2 distinct NICs. That's the 
current theory anyway ... :-)

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <Q+9nyGnGIuW3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
 koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:

> In article <45afb57b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, 
> martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:
> > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
> >> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> >>> 3. Could I fire up X11 on the Mac and then access the SimH/VAX run-
> >>>    ning on the Mac?
> >> 
> >>   Probably requires two NICs, like it does on Windows.  Generally you
> >>   can get one NIC to be shareable to/from outside machines, but nothing 
> >>   knows how to route between the two OS sharing the NIC.
> > 
> > I have SimH running on my WinXP notebook with local DECwindows. The
> > trick is to have a virtual NIC inside the machine to connect SimH to its
> > host. I use the TAP-Win32-Adapter of the OpenVPN project (www.openvpn.org).
> > 
> > I had it on a (now dead) notebook that ran Linux, too - look for "TUN/TAP
> > bridge".
> 
>    Ahh, cool.  I'll have to try that.

With your Mac?

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <paul.sture.nospam-2D6984.13041220012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>
>
>In article <00A61E96.CD7679F1@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>
>> In article <paul.sture.nospam-F386E4.17114018012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul 
>> Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
>> >{...snip...}
>> >On the music front, I have recently started enjoying BBC Radio 2's 
>> >offerings in the evenings - quite a mix of all sorts including Big 
>> >Bands, Swing, documentaries on rock (new and old), and a bit of 
>> >classical. What is really good about these programmes is that the 
>> >presenters don't just announce the music played but give background 
>> >history to put it into context.
>> >
>> >RealPlayer is required for the BBC programmes - I record them directly 
>> >to disk and then edit the results later to get stuff I want into iTunes 
>> >or onto CD.
>> >
>> >And to stay on topic, I can be working with VMS at the same time. :-)
>> 
>> Check out Aural Moon (auralmoon.com).  It runs out of my basement and it
>> is even listed on the iTunes radio listings under "classic rock".  It is
>> currently running on an Itanium server running linix (using apache, php,
>> MySQL and Joomla).  I am hoping to migrate the whole beast to OpenVMS in
>> the not too distant future (assuming I can find copius ammounts of time
>> not all ready allocated to other interests).  
>>
>
>I've found Aural Moon thanks. The first attempt returned an error 
>something like "no free channels", which may want to look into to, but I 
>got in fine later on. The Joomla stuff looks interesting, though I 
>suspect it involves the dreaded Javascript. It would certainly be nice 
>to see Aural Moon running on OpenVMS.

'Tis not an error... there are only about 175 "free listening" slots.
We encourage "patronage" which is cheap and gets the patron the 128K,
not the free 56K stream.

Joomla is alot of PHP and JavaScript... the dreaded AJAX. 


>> I did find something very interesting in the past few days concerning my
>> Itanium box running Linux.  I'm not sure if it is hardware or if it is a
>> limitation of the driver in Linux.  I was experiencing some problems on
>> my T1 connection so I unplugged all of the lines into the router and be-
>> gan a week long argument with Verizon about the loop.  Eventually, they
>> came out and ran a new loop and installed new termination equipment.  In
>> the interim, I put the Linux server into my 100baseT switch.  When my T1
>> was back up, I removed the cable from the switch and put it back in the
>> router (which has only 10baseT interfaces).  Ethernet fragments galore!
>> It seems that the ethernet port (or its driver) settle up on the type of
>> ethernet it is attached to when the interface is first brough up with an
>> 'ifup'.  I experimented with the other Itanium running VMS and it does
>> not produce the same problem so I suspect the Linux driver; however, my
>> Linux box is an older 1.4GHz Itanium and the VMS box is a newer 1.5GHz 
>> box.  Also, the Linux box is the beast with the failed management console
>> as well.  I think it is just the Intel box from hell.  Maybe the HP on
>> it stands for Hell Processor. :D
>
>Just a thought, but I came across an article a couple of days ago about 
>a particular version of the Linux kernel being broken for NFS. Maybe NFS 
>isn't the only problem there.
>
>But I'd also suspect the router here. When I had the Alpha with 2 NICs 
>connected directly to mine, the 2nd NIC would always come back offline 
>after a reboot, along with a gazillion Phase V OPCOM messages. Pulling 
>then reinserting the cable fixed that but was a pain to have to do. 
>Putting a 10/100 hub between the Alpha and the router solved the 
>problem, and I no longer needed to nail the Alpha interfaces down to 10 
>Mb/s.

There are ONLY to things connected to the router.  The Arual Moon Itanium
server and a connection from my DECbridge90 which filters all of the non-
IP traffic to the router.  This problem only started recently and only if
the Itanium is connected.


>On the Simh/iBook problem, I'm thinking of looking for a wireless to LAN 
>box so that my router would clearly see 2 distinct NICs. That's the 
>current theory anyway ... :-)

It's called a WAP.  I played around with my WAP placing it on the Power-
Book's 10/100/1K ethernet port and configuring it with one address.  Then
I configured the WAP and the wireless with another...  I could, with some
mucking about with the Powerbooks routes, talk to myself.  It was a very
schizophrenic experience. :)

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
           
  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 

Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:
>> martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:
>> > I have SimH running on my WinXP notebook with local DECwindows. [...]
>> > I had it on a (now dead) notebook that ran Linux, too - look for
>> > "TUN/TAP bridge".
>> 
>> Ahh, cool.  I'll have to try that.
> 
> With your Mac?

Though I don't have a Mac, IMHO OS X should be unixy enough...

Googling for "tun tap Mac OS X" yields as the first hit
http://www-user.rhkh.uni-kl.de/~nissler/tuntap/ titled
"tun/tap driver for Mac OS X", so it should be doable.

http://www.retrocomputinggeek.com/index/retrowiki/SIMHNetworking/
describes how to use the tun/tap devices.

cu,
  Martin
-- 
                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!
 UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
 It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
 who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de

In article <45b25e48.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,
 martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:

> Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:
> > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:
> >> martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:
> >> > I have SimH running on my WinXP notebook with local DECwindows. [...]
> >> > I had it on a (now dead) notebook that ran Linux, too - look for
> >> > "TUN/TAP bridge".
> >> 
> >> Ahh, cool.  I'll have to try that.
> > 
> > With your Mac?
> 
> Though I don't have a Mac, IMHO OS X should be unixy enough...
> 
> Googling for "tun tap Mac OS X" yields as the first hit
> http://www-user.rhkh.uni-kl.de/~nissler/tuntap/ titled
> "tun/tap driver for Mac OS X", so it should be doable.
> 
> http://www.retrocomputinggeek.com/index/retrowiki/SIMHNetworking/
> describes how to use the tun/tap devices.
> 

Thanks, will have a look.

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <00A61FF6.A73B2983@SendSpamHere.ORG>,
 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

> 'Tis not an error... there are only about 175 "free listening" slots.
> We encourage "patronage" which is cheap and gets the patron the 128K,
> not the free 56K stream.

Understood.

> Joomla is alot of PHP and JavaScript... the dreaded AJAX. 

Eek. Looking on the positive side, hosting it on VMS should help greatly 
with the job of locking it down against attacks.

> 
> There are ONLY to things connected to the router.  The Aural Moon Itanium
> server and a connection from my DECbridge90 which filters all of the non-
> IP traffic to the router.  This problem only started recently and only if
> the Itanium is connected.

FWIW, Googling on "fragmented packets" turns up multi-platform 
vulnerabilities to DoS attacks...
 
> 
> >On the Simh/iBook problem, I'm thinking of looking for a wireless to LAN 
> >box so that my router would clearly see 2 distinct NICs. That's the 
> >current theory anyway ... :-)
> 
> It's called a WAP.  I played around with my WAP placing it on the Power-
> Book's 10/100/1K ethernet port and configuring it with one address.  Then
> I configured the WAP and the wireless with another...  I could, with some
> mucking about with the Powerbooks routes, talk to myself.  It was a very
> schizophrenic experience. :)

Thanks. Both of us might report back if we all decide to go that route 
:-)

-- 
Paul Sture

In article <paul.sture.nospam-4D7B74.13052120012007@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:
> In article <Q+9nyGnGIuW3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
>  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:
> 
> With your Mac?

   No, sadly my SIMH is sittin' on that other box.