This is pretty sad, I install kermit as a matter of course on all my
VMS systems, I find it very useful for quick file transfers and the
like.

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/07/1946244/Columbia-University-Ending-the-Kermit-Project

In article
<882852e6-ebd3-49a6-a2f3-c3a25957d255@r14g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
sampsa <sampsal@gmail.com> writes: 

> This is pretty sad, I install kermit as a matter of course on all my
> VMS systems, I find it very useful for quick file transfers and the
> like.
> 
> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/07/1946244/Columbia-University-Ending-the-Kermit-Project

It will still be available and one can still use it, so at worst it
means no more development.  But hey, people have been saying (although I
disagree) that the long-term solution for VMS would be to open-source
it.  If one believes that is viable, then certainly with Kermit, which 
is less than VMS in terms of size.  The message is that they are looking 
in to ways to open-source kermit.

On Apr 8, 10:47=A0am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
undress to reply) wrote:
> In article
> <882852e6-ebd3-49a6-a2f3-c3a25957d...@r14g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> sampsa <samp...@gmail.com> writes:
> > This is pretty sad, I install kermit as a matter of course on all my
> > VMS systems, I find it very useful for quick file transfers and the
> > like.
>
> >http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/07/1946244/Columbia-University-E...
>
> It will still be available and one can still use it, so at worst it
> means no more development. =A0But hey, people have been saying (although =
I
> disagree) that the long-term solution for VMS would be to open-source
> it. =A0If one believes that is viable, then certainly with Kermit, which
> is less than VMS in terms of size. =A0The message is that they are lookin=
g
> in to ways to open-source kermit.


From http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/
"Columbia is also exploring ways to make the underlying Kermit source
code available to the public after July 1st, 2011, so that ongoing
development of Kermit can continue beyond Columbia's involvement. Our
current plan is to distribute the source code in a new Open-Source
version bearing the BSD license, except for code that is not
authorized for distribution through that means. In addition, the
Kermit website will remain available for the foreseeable future, with
pages modified to indicate the new situation. The Kermit ftp archive
will also remain available for the foreseeable future."

Phillip Helbig---undress to reply <helbig@astro.multiclothesvax.de> wrote:
> sampsa <sampsal@gmail.com> writes:
>> This is pretty sad, I install kermit as a matter of course on all my
>> VMS systems, I find it very useful for quick file transfers and the
>> like.
>>
>> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/07/1946244/Columbia-University-Ending-the-Kermit-Project
>
> It will still be available and one can still use it, so at worst it
> means no more development.  But hey, people have been saying (although I
> disagree) that the long-term solution for VMS would be to open-source
> it.  If one believes that is viable, then certainly with Kermit, which
> is less than VMS in terms of size.  The message is that they are looking
> in to ways to open-source kermit.

C-Kermit (which is the one used on VMS, UNIX, and everything not Windows)
was essentially free before, see
ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/COPYING.TXT

cu,
   Martin
-- 
One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!
One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
One OS to bring them all      |   http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de

II'd like to thank Frank da Cruz and all of the people who helped him
with kermit over the years.

The end of development may be sad, but the fact still remains that Mr da
Cruz and his team (including many volunteers) have done an incredible
job over the decades of supporting and developping Kermit.

On Apr 8, 1:11=A0pm, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spam...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> II'd like to thank Frank da Cruz and all of the people who helped him
> with kermit over the years.
>
> The end of development may be sad, but the fact still remains that Mr da
> Cruz and his team (including many volunteers) have done an incredible
> job over the decades of supporting and developping Kermit.

+1  no make that +2

Wonder if Frank is retiring.  If yes, then I wish him all the best.

If he isn't, I wish him all the best anyway.

I forwarded this to alt.sys.pdp10, since Kermit originated as a way for PCs to
talk to the Columbia KL-10 running TOPS-20.

Thanks for the pointer.
-- 
Rich Alderson                                   news@alderson.users.panix.com
    the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
    to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...

Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:

> I forwarded this to alt.sys.pdp10, since Kermit originated as a 
> way for PCs to talk to the Columbia KL-10 running TOPS-20.

Since this is the VMS list, I can say that the main use I still
find for Kermit is to transfer my licenses such that networking
will work.  How do they expect one to get the license in?
(Don't say type it in by hand.)

-- glen

On 2011-04-09, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> Since this is the VMS list, I can say that the main use I still
> find for Kermit is to transfer my licenses such that networking
> will work. 

Just a few months ago, I designed Kermit into an embedded device that 
will be sitting on a VMEbus hanging off an Itanium system.

'Course, I didn't do any of the snazzy new features like enhanced
checksums or sliding windows; don't need them for the rare diagnostic
use to which it will be put.
-- 
roger ivie
rivie@ridgenet.net

glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:

> will work.  How do they expect one to get the license in?
> (Don't say type it in by hand.)


Type it in by hand.

glen herrmannsfeldt mentioned  on 9-4-2011 3:05:
> Rich Alderson<news@alderson.users.panix.com>  wrote:
>
>> I forwarded this to alt.sys.pdp10, since Kermit originated as a
>> way for PCs to talk to the Columbia KL-10 running TOPS-20.
>
> Since this is the VMS list, I can say that the main use I still
> find for Kermit is to transfer my licenses such that networking
> will work.  How do they expect one to get the license in?
> (Don't say type it in by hand.)
>
> -- glen

Caution: this post assumes using a PC connected to your VMS system. Stop 
reading if you're offended.

Connect to the Alpha/VAX console port using the serial port on a PC. 
Open a puTTY session to COMn. EDIT/TPU a new file. Cut and paste your 
licenses. You do have them in the form of a DCL command file, don't you? 
Otherwise I fail to see the benefits of using Kermit.

-- 
Wilm Boerhout         |
Zwolle,               |   'These are the times that try men's souls'
The Netherlands       |   (Thomas Paine, The Crisis)

glen herrmannsfeldt wrote 2011-04-09 03:05:
> Rich Alderson<news@alderson.users.panix.com>  wrote:
>
>> I forwarded this to alt.sys.pdp10, since Kermit originated as a
>> way for PCs to talk to the Columbia KL-10 running TOPS-20.
>
> Since this is the VMS list, I can say that the main use I still
> find for Kermit is to transfer my licenses such that networking
> will work.  How do they expect one to get the license in?
> (Don't say type it in by hand.)
>
> -- glen

I simply cut-n-paste the licenes (hobbyist in this case)
from the mails into a Reflection session (either on the
console port, if a new system, or over a telnet connection)
and then just run the DCL-scripts.

In article <4d9fc654$0$31437$c3e8da3$c14f6927@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> 
> > will work.  How do they expect one to get the license in?
> > (Don't say type it in by hand.)
> 
> 
> Type it in by hand.

Type the few key licences you need to get base VMS and TCP/IP up and 
running in by hand.

Or cheat and burn a CD, which is the easiest option if your target
system only has VMS and TCP/IP installed.

-- 
Paul Sture

Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout-remove@this-gmail.com> wrote:
(snip on Kermit)

> Caution: this post assumes using a PC connected to your VMS system. Stop 
> reading if you're offended.
 
> Connect to the Alpha/VAX console port using the serial port on a PC. 
> Open a puTTY session to COMn. EDIT/TPU a new file. Cut and paste your 
> licenses. You do have them in the form of a DCL command file, don't you? 
> Otherwise I fail to see the benefits of using Kermit.

I think that is what I used to do, but with Kermit instead of puTTY.

I now have it connected to the serial port of a serial/parallel
print server, such that I telnet to the print server and log in.

I war remembering wondering why you can't ftp them in in the first
place, though.  

-- glen

In article <mddaag01e0l.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:

> I forwarded this to alt.sys.pdp10, since Kermit originated as a way for PCs to
> talk to the Columbia KL-10 running TOPS-20.

   I thought Kermit pre-dated PCs, but the first use I had for it was to
   connect them to TOPS-20, also.

In article <intba1$qtr$2@dont-email.me>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:
> 
> I war remembering wondering why you can't ftp them in in the first
> place, though.  

   You just have to remember to do that before last year's licenses
   expire.

   Or, when adding a new node, ftp them to any existing system with
   access to the license database.

   It was only that first couple of licences on the first node in the
   cluster that had to be entered another way.

On 2011-04-11, Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
> In article <mddaag01e0l.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson writes:
>
>    I thought Kermit pre-dated PCs, but the first use I had for it was to
>    connect them to TOPS-20, also.

Depends on what you mean by "PC". I first used it to move files between
8" SSSD CP/M machines and a VAX-11/780.
-- 
roger ivie
rivie@ridgenet.net

In article <slrniq66ce.364.rivie@stench.no.domain>, Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> writes:
> 
> Depends on what you mean by "PC". I first used it to move files between
> 8" SSSD CP/M machines and a VAX-11/780.

   I'm thinking a system that runs miserable-DOS.  CP/M would predate
   that, IIRC.  I wonder when Kermit showed up on CP/M?

On Apr 11, 9:45=A0pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
Koehler) wrote:

> =A0 =A0I'm thinking a system that runs miserable-DOS. =A0CP/M would preda=
te
> =A0 =A0that, IIRC. =A0I wonder when Kermit showed up on CP/M?

I seem to recall it was initially developed for use with a CP/M system
of some kind (Intertec SuperBrain comes to mind) as the "client"..

On 2011-04-11 22:45, Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article<slrniq66ce.364.rivie@stench.no.domain>, Roger Ivie<rivie@ridgenet.net>  writes:
>>
>> Depends on what you mean by "PC". I first used it to move files between
>> 8" SSSD CP/M machines and a VAX-11/780.
>
>     I'm thinking a system that runs miserable-DOS.  CP/M would predate
>     that, IIRC.  I wonder when Kermit showed up on CP/M?

According to history, more or less day 1. The three use cases at 
Columbia to start with was DEC-20, some IBM system, and CP/M.

	Johnny

-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

In article <invspk$nnv$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>
>>     I'm thinking a system that runs miserable-DOS.  CP/M would predate
>>     that, IIRC.  I wonder when Kermit showed up on CP/M?
> 
> According to history, more or less day 1. The three use cases at 
> Columbia to start with was DEC-20, some IBM system, and CP/M.

   OK, so unless that IBM system was a PC (doesn't really sound like
   it), kermit predates kermit for MS-DOS.

On 12/04/11 16:18, Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article<invspk$nnv$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist<bqt@softjar.se>  writes:
>>>
>>>      I'm thinking a system that runs miserable-DOS.  CP/M would predate
>>>      that, IIRC.  I wonder when Kermit showed up on CP/M?
>>
>> According to history, more or less day 1. The three use cases at
>> Columbia to start with was DEC-20, some IBM system, and CP/M.
>
>     OK, so unless that IBM system was a PC (doesn't really sound like
>     it), kermit predates kermit for MS-DOS.
>
>
I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall using Kermit over dial-up lines 
between PDPs running RSTS in the '70s (before the advent of the PC)


-- 
Mike R.
Home: http://alpha.mike-r.com/
QOTD: http://alpha.mike-r.com/php/qotd.php
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:23:44 +0300, Henry Crun wrote:

> On 12/04/11 16:18, Bob Koehler wrote:
>> In article<invspk$nnv$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny
>> Billquist<bqt@softjar.se>  writes:
>>>>
>>>>      I'm thinking a system that runs miserable-DOS.  CP/M would
>>>>      predate that, IIRC.  I wonder when Kermit showed up on CP/M?
>>>
>>> According to history, more or less day 1. The three use cases at
>>> Columbia to start with was DEC-20, some IBM system, and CP/M.
>>
>>     OK, so unless that IBM system was a PC (doesn't really sound like
>>     it), kermit predates kermit for MS-DOS.
>>
>>
> I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall using Kermit over
> dial-up lines between PDPs running RSTS in the '70s (before the advent
> of the PC)

You are remembwering wrong. The protocol was not first used until 1981, 
and that was between a Superbrain and a DECSystem-20.

However, there certainly was a Kermit implementation for RSTS - probbaly 
around 1982-1983.

If it'd been around earlier, I wouldn't have had to invent it. I remember 
having to transfer files between operating systems on PDP-11s back in 
1975, and did so using a protocol that I invented myself - the programs 
were in Macro-11. That protocol looks much like a basic Kermit...!



-- 
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> wrote:

(snip)
> I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall using Kermit 
> over dial-up lines between PDPs running RSTS in the '70s 
> (before the advent of the PC)

The web site says 1981, which is not long before the IBM PC.

I do believe it was more used between DEC machines before the
IBM PC became so popular.  The first one I remember was between
RT-11 and TOPS-20.  Before KERMIT, we had a no error checking,
no flow control, transfer system.

-- glen

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:31:13 +0000, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:

> Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> wrote:
> 
> (snip)
>> I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall using Kermit over
>> dial-up lines between PDPs running RSTS in the '70s (before the advent
>> of the PC)
> 
> The web site says 1981, which is not long before the IBM PC.

Well, the IBM PC *was* 1981. But it definitely didn't appear there until 
later. The PC BIOS had a major bug when dealing with serial ports, but it 
needed software to set up serial ports anyway.

-- 
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article <90jiasFr1iU27@mid.individual.net>,
 Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:31:13 +0000, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> 
> > Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> wrote:
> > 
> > (snip)
> >> I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall using Kermit over
> >> dial-up lines between PDPs running RSTS in the '70s (before the advent
> >> of the PC)
> > 
> > The web site says 1981, which is not long before the IBM PC.
> 
> Well, the IBM PC *was* 1981. But it definitely didn't appear there until 
> later. The PC BIOS had a major bug when dealing with serial ports, but it 
> needed software to set up serial ports anyway.

A friend I met half a dozen years later had worked with early PCs for 
business applications and reckoned the commercially sane way to do it 
was to use dBase.  That apparently shielded you from many/most of the 
hardware and OS bugs.

-- 
Paul Sture