Transfering Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help please

My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer to the VAX. I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit as a text file. Two questions/requests: 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. My competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. John Martin

On 11 Mar 2005 11:19:01 -0800, <John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com> wrote: > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer > to the VAX. > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit > as a text file. > > Two questions/requests: > > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? > > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the > format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. My > competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. > > John Martin > Why don't you connect them using ethernet? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

On 11 Mar 2005 11:31:58 -0800, <John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com> wrote: > My PC network is RJ45. I do not have a hardware hookup to BNC or > ThickWire of the VAX. > Buy a BNC/RJ45 Transceiver. Last time I bought 10 yrs ago it was around $15, of course, it could be more today -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:48:10 -0800, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > On 11 Mar 2005 11:31:58 -0800, <John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com> > wrote: > >> My PC network is RJ45. I do not have a hardware hookup to BNC or >> ThickWire of the VAX. >> > Buy a BNC/RJ45 Transceiver. Last time I bought 10 yrs ago it > was around $15, of course, it could be more today > > As I think about it, it may have been AUI/RJ45 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Tom Linden wrote: > On 11 Mar 2005 11:31:58 -0800, <John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com> > wrote: > >> My PC network is RJ45. I do not have a hardware hookup to BNC or >> ThickWire of the VAX. >> > Buy a BNC/RJ45 Transceiver. Last time I bought 10 yrs ago it > was around $15, of course, it could be more today or less... http://search.ebay.com/ethernet-transceiver_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8 -- OpenVMS - The often imitated but never advertised operating system.

John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com wrote: > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). kermit32 should still supp0ort binaries. I downloaded plenty with the old kermit. Have you tried SET FILE TYPE BINARY at the Kermit-32> prompt ? And did your PC also do a SET FILE TYPE BINARY ? I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit > as a text file. You could try to include the file in an email, have the email software convert it to MIME, and then you can extract the mime text and text transfer it, and then use the MIME utility on VMS to get it back into binary form. TCPIP Services also provides TCPIP$UUENCODE.EXE in SYS$SYSTEM, so UUENCODINg might also work if the bianry doesn't work.

John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com wrote: > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from > the Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to > transfer to the VAX. > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer > CKermit as a text file. > > Two questions/requests: > > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? > > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps > the format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. > My competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. > > John Martin Have you gone to ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vmshex/ and followed the instructions there? There are CKERMIT versions in HEX that you need and the KERMIT32 that you already have. I do not know why you say KERMIT32 is not transferring the .EXE files correctly, what are you doing and what do you see when you try? The FTP site should give you everything you need to transfer to a VAX. The .EXE should still work as long as you were in BIN mode every time you transferred the file. -- Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc. Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX www.weaverconsulting.ca

John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com wrote: > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer > to the VAX. > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit > as a text file. > > Two questions/requests: > > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? > > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the > format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. My > competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. > > John Martin John, A couple of things: - You MUST download the executable from the www site as an IMAGE file, otherwise you will have problems at this stage - You MUST upload the file from the PC to the VMS system using FIXED (SET FILE TYPE FIXED) for the same reason. - KERMIT-32 and C-KERMIT are compatible, except that the file transfer protocol defaults may not match. In particular, Kermit-32 does not support sliding windows. Check all of the settings on both sides to ensure that the protocol settings are set correctly and compatibly. You SHOULD NOT need to hexify/dehexify the files. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

On 3/11/05 11:19 AM, in article 1110568741.425394.208480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com" <John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com> wrote: > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer > to the VAX. > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit > as a text file. > > Two questions/requests: > > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? > > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the > format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. My > competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. > > John Martin > VMSKermit and some other File transfer utilities have a file format called IMAGE. Use IMAGE instead of BINARY. This will make the RMS file type Fixed length/512 byte records which is the format for executable files. If you don't have an IMAGE transfer file type, you can still use binary and then enter in the VMS command: $SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=(RFM:FIX,LRL:512) executable-file.EXE Jeff

John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com wrote: > My PC network is RJ45. I do not have a hardware hookup to BNC or > ThickWire of the VAX. John, where are you geographically ? I'm presuming you're in the UK. I have oodles of Thickwire-UTP adaptors suitable for hooking up your VAX to your "PC" network (now why does that terminology grate ?). You can have one for free if you're anywhere near me; I'm in the village of Great Chesterford, near Saffron Walden in Essex - 16 Km due south of Cambridge. Roy Omond Blue Bubble Ltd.

<John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com> wrote in message news:1110568741.425394.208480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer > to the VAX. > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit > as a text file. > > Two questions/requests: > > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? > > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the > format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. My > competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. > > John Martin You should get an "evaluation" copy of reflection from www.wrq.com It uses a file transfer protocol that can handle image files and has a bootstrap method for uploading itself. Phil

Jeff Cameron wrote: > If you don't have an IMAGE transfer file type, you can still use binary and > then enter in the VMS command: > > $SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=(RFM:FIX,LRL:512) executable-file.EXE Unfortunately not with Kermit-32 as it used 510 byte RMS records when storing in binary mode. Of course you can convert the record format but just changing the attribute won't work. -- Alan Greig

On 3/12/05 5:33 AM, in article 1110634430.022792.252980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote: > Jeff Cameron wrote: > >> If you don't have an IMAGE transfer file type, you can still use > binary and >> then enter in the VMS command: >> >> $SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=(RFM:FIX,LRL:512) executable-file.EXE > > Unfortunately not with Kermit-32 as it used 510 byte RMS records when > storing in binary mode. Of course you can convert the record format but > just changing the attribute won't work. > -- > Alan Greig > I don't know exactly what you mean? I use Kermit-32, and I have transferred VAX and Alpha Executable images using both these methods for years now, with no problem. Jeff

Jeff Cameron wrote: > I don't know exactly what you mean? I use Kermit-32, and I have transferred > VAX and Alpha Executable images using both these methods for years now, with Actually re-reading - the clue is in your statement "VAX and Alpha" If you really are running Kermit-32 on an Alpha then I'm astounded. I *think* it did VEST as I tried it for a laugh about '92. I have never heard of anyone actually compiling it on an Alpha. Frank da Cruz would probably turn a funny colour at the very thought. Kermit-32 shared sourcecode with TOPS-10 Kermit-36 and was written in Bliss. It is very, very old and only implements a subset of current Kermit protocols. -- Alan Greig

On 3/13/05 9:59 AM, in article 1110736766.989544.70070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote: > > Jeff Cameron wrote: > >> I don't know exactly what you mean? I use Kermit-32, and I have > transferred >> VAX and Alpha Executable images using both these methods for years > now, with > > Actually re-reading - the clue is in your statement "VAX and Alpha" If > you really are running Kermit-32 on an Alpha then I'm astounded. I > *think* it did VEST as I tried it for a laugh about '92. I have never > heard of anyone actually compiling it on an Alpha. Frank da Cruz would > probably turn a funny colour at the very thought. > > Kermit-32 shared sourcecode with TOPS-10 Kermit-36 and was written in > Bliss. It is very, very old and only implements a subset of current > Kermit protocols. > > -- > Alan Greig > Thank you, I will check it out and find out for certain. I base my conclusion on the prompt being Kermit-32. Jeff

In article <1110568741.425394.208480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com writes: > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer > to the VAX. Executables have no file attribute requirements. The linker creates them in fixed 512 byte blocks, but the image activator ignores that. The image activator simply maps the disk blocks to memory pagelets. Which means every byte in the data blocks of the file has to be a byte of executable image. As long as you do all your transfers in a mode such as FTP binary, which do absolutely nothing as far as "meta data" is concerned, you will get a useable image. This is one of the reasons VMS patches have been distributed as self expaning archives in executable image format.

John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com wrote: > > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world. > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from the > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfer > to the VAX. > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully support > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX but > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermit > as a text file. > > Two questions/requests: > > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessary > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself? > > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the > format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version. My > competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand the > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have. I don't know if this can help, but if you can manage to get a block-by-block VMS DUMP of the file transfer program and/or the IP software saveset(s) or whatever, I have a piece of DCL that will convert the DUMP output back to fixed-512. From there you can SET FILE/ATTR to correct the file format (RFM), the longest record length (LRL), etc. I'd expect it to be torturously slow on any VAX prior to a VAX 6000-400 or better, but if you can let in run overnight (or two), it should work just fine. See this URL: http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ ....and get: http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/dmp2bin.dcl Rename it to a .COM before you run it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page