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What OS version to run on a DEC 3000-M600

Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I recently 
picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the 
preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent, 
I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from 
experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.

Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS 
version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.

Thanks!

-- 
James
http://www.e-host-direct.com
Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
0
semaj (77)
7/16/2007 3:43:01 PM
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"Slor" <semaj@rols.ten> schreef in bericht
news:Xns996F775E38D4Aemuslor@216.196.97.136...
> Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I
recently
> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the
> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent,
> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from
> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS
> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- 
> James
> http://www.e-host-direct.com
> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.

James, a 3000-600 will run most versions of VMS. There is no reason why you
shouldn't run V8.3. Later versions of VMS are performance oriented and even
a 3000-600 my actually benefit. Of course Digital's time honoured advice
applies to you as well: "buy more memory":-)
Other versions that are quite stable: V7.3-2 and V7.2 or V7.1. I run 7.3 on
a Multia. It is usable, and stable.
Hans


0
hvlems (930)
7/16/2007 4:29:23 PM
Slor wrote:
> Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I recently 
> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the 
> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent, 
> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from 
> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS 
> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> 

It originally came out with 6.1 if I remember correctly. Any version 
later than that will run on it. The memory is on the lower side, but if 
you don't plan to run graphics nor heavy applications, it'll work 
sufficiently. If you can find memory to upgrade to 256MB or more, you 
can do a lot of things with it. You need to add memory in sets of eight 
(8) SIMMs. You'll find hardware documentation at http://vt100.net/manx
VMS V8.3 will work fine depending on what you will do with the machine. 
It is not significantly more resource hog than the earlier versions. 
What you install and run affects the resources more than the basic O/S.

You might have a 1GB system disk there, but 2GB or larger would be best. 
Newer 4GB or larger disks are faster and will help the machine to 
perform better, too.

You cannot expect that the machine with its 175MHz will be a blazing 
speed demon, but for exploring VMS it is a nice piece of hardware. Btw. 
the case is one of the sturdiest I've seen.

When using the latest version of VMS you also have the widest selection 
of features.


Regards,

Kari

0
uusimaki (21)
7/16/2007 4:52:19 PM
Slor wrote:
> I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I recently 
> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the 
> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent, 
> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from 
> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS 
> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.

I'd go for the latest available version that you can get your hands on, 
whether it's the hobbyist V7.3-1 distro, V7.3-2 or (for the most 
features and such) the current V8.3 distro.

The OpenVMS Alpha releases that still see ECOs released are V6.2, 
V6.2-1H3, V7.3-2, V8.2 and V8.3.  I'd not tend to prefer to use other 
releases.

Do get a CD distro here; don't try to load this box via any other means 
-- at least until you have some experience with loading OpenVMS through 
"creative" means, or another OpenVMS box running locally.  Using Linux, 
Mac OS X or some other operating system other than OpenVMS itself to 
load a VAX, Alpha or Integrity box is comparatively tricky.  The CD (or 
DVD, in the case of OpenVMS I64) makes this far easier.  Alternative 
initial system loading techniques are a comparatively advanced topic 
when you're dealing with a file system that most other operating systems 
do not recognize.

OpenVMS has always liked more RAM.  64 MB is a minimal configuration for 
an older OpenVMS Alpha box (even for an early V6.2 release); I'd tend to 
look to get a half-gig or more, or whatever the box itself supports.

High-level technical configuration details for this and other 
equivalent-vintage VAX and Alpha boxes  -- such as how much memory you 
can stuff into the box, and the associated part numbers -- are typically 
in the DIGITAL Systems and Options Catalog (SOC) documents, which are 
available via the http://www.hp.com/go/productbulletin web site.

There's a hobbyist intro here: http://64.223.189.234/node/6

-- 
www.HoffmanLabs.com
Services for OpenVMS
0
hoff13 (384)
7/16/2007 5:57:42 PM
In 2000, I had a M500 (same memory SIMMs but only takes half as many
as the M600) that came with 32MB, and I added 64MB (which displaced
16MB) and VMS 7.2 (?), giveing me 90MB.
It was much happier ... until I tried to start DECnet Plus.

I got the memory through ELI.COM for about $150 (MS15-DA), which they
currently list for $145.
The next size up, MS15-EA for 128MB, they list for $545: the larger
capacity SIMMs were rare and therefore expensive.  With the M600 you
should be able to get a respectable amount of memory without getting
into the larger SIMMs.

Here's thier table for the 3000 series (I don't work for them, just
thought I'd pass along there experence...)
http://eli.com/Alpha3000400-900Series.cfm?c=112&a=category


Sean

On Jul 16, 8:43 am, Slor <se...@rols.ten> wrote:
> Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I recently
> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the
> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent,
> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from
> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS
> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Jameshttp://www.e-host-direct.com
> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.


0
sean80 (130)
7/16/2007 8:06:13 PM
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:06:13 -0700, <sean@obanion.us> wrote:

> In 2000, I had a M500 (same memory SIMMs but only takes half as many
> as the M600) that came with 32MB, and I added 64MB (which displaced
> 16MB) and VMS 7.2 (?), giveing me 90MB.
> It was much happier ... until I tried to start DECnet Plus.
>
> I got the memory through ELI.COM for about $150 (MS15-DA), which they
> currently list for $145.
> The next size up, MS15-EA for 128MB, they list for $545: the larger
> capacity SIMMs were rare and therefore expensive.  With the M600 you
> should be able to get a respectable amount of memory without getting
> into the larger SIMMs.
>
> Here's thier table for the 3000 series (I don't work for them, just
> thought I'd pass along there experence...)
> http://eli.com/Alpha3000400-900Series.cfm?c=3D112&a=3Dcategory
>
>
> Sean
>
> On Jul 16, 8:43 am, Slor <se...@rols.ten> wrote:
>> Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I  =

>> recently
>> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the
>> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too  =

>> recent,
>> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from=

>> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specif=
ic  =

>> OS
>> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Jameshttp://www.e-host-direct.com
>> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
>
>



-- =

PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
0
tom298 (792)
7/16/2007 8:35:35 PM
Hi,

<sean@obanion.us> wrote in message 
news:1184616373.784320.185070@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> In 2000, I had a M500 (same memory SIMMs but only takes half as many
> as the M600) that came with 32MB, and I added 64MB (which displaced
> 16MB) and VMS 7.2 (?), giveing me 90MB.
> It was much happier ... until I tried to start DECnet Plus.
>
[snip]

I'd go with 8.3 too but would avoid DECnet Plus, going instead with DECnet 
Phase IV. Or, if you don't need/want it, don't install DECnet at all.

Paul 


0
PEN
7/16/2007 9:42:49 PM
In article <Xns996F775E38D4Aemuslor@216.196.97.136>,
 Slor <semaj@rols.ten> wrote:

> Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I recently 
> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the 
> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent, 
> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from 
> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS 
> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.
> 
> Thanks!

I tested V8.3 with this system, with less than 64 MB.  IIRC, I started 
having some startup problems when I got a bit below 40 MB.

I had DECnet-plus and TCPIP configured with 64 MB and they both worked.  
I don' believe I configured DECwindows.

This was only a sanity check with minimum memory; I didn't run extensive 
tests, nor was I worrying about performance.

64 MB really is a practical minimum for V8.3.  You'd do better with 128 
MB or more.  Even 96 MB would be a noticeable improvement over 64MB.

64 MB kits were plentiful back in the day, and shouldn't cost much.  The 
128 and 25 MB kits were considerably rarer, and will be more expensive 
when they appear in the used market.

V7.3-2 was the last to support some of the high-end turbochannel 
graphics cards (via the Open3D layered product).  Support for the base 
graphics cards is included in the OS and is still there in V8.3.

  -- Robert
0
7/17/2007 2:37:52 AM
Slor schrieb:
> 
> Also, if increasing the RAM would help it be more suited for a specific OS 
> version, I can consider looking for more memory as well.
> 

there's this guy, Ben Myers (ben_myers@charter.net),
who posts on comp.sys.dec every now and then.
A couple of months ago he had a pile of old DEC memory on sale,
including MS15-DA IIRC. About $2 per 8MB or so.

0
M.Kraemer (2048)
7/17/2007 7:42:13 AM
I have OpenVMS 8.3 running on a DEC 3000-M600 with 64MB and a PMGD-BA
(a 24 bit 3D graphics card). It was very easy to install. The box was
running tru64 V5.0.

If you need help obtaining media for OpenVMS 8.3 let me know, I may be
able to help.

Regards,

Mark

0
mark525 (244)
7/17/2007 7:59:30 AM
Thanks guys for all the feedback.

-- 
James
http://www.e-host-direct.com
Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
0
semaj (77)
7/18/2007 5:26:44 PM
On Jul 18, 12:26 pm, Slor <se...@rols.ten> wrote:
> Thanks guys for all the feedback.
>
> --
> Jameshttp://www.e-host-direct.com
> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.

James,
     if you don't mind saying, are you in the US?

Rich

0
jordan (1228)
7/19/2007 3:50:02 PM
In article <Xns996F775E38D4Aemuslor@216.196.97.136>, Slor
<semaj@rols.ten> writes: 

> Hello everyone.  I have a pretty newbie question for the group - I recently 
> picked up a 3000-M600 with 64MB of RAM, and I'm wondering what the 
> preferred OpenVMS version would be for that machine.  If I go too recent, 
> I'm concerned I might suffer performance issues, so any opinions from 
> experience with such as system would be greatly appreciated.

I'm running 7.3-2 on one and will probably move to 8.3 soon.  8.3 is 
supported on this machine.  Minimum memory requirements have increased 
over the years.  I believe 7.3-2 officially requires 64 MB.  I did run 
it (but did not install it---I swapped the system disk) on a machine 
with 48 MB, but performance was lacking.

I have 192 MB of memory in mine.  It can even run CSWB, but quite
slowly.  I would recommend more memory and installing 8.3.

0
helbig (5064)
7/19/2007 9:29:06 PM
Despite all prevention efforts, Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in 
news:1184860202.907167.195300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 18, 12:26 pm, Slor <se...@rols.ten> wrote:
>> Thanks guys for all the feedback.
>>
>> --
>> Jameshttp://www.e-host-direct.com
>> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
> 
> James,
>      if you don't mind saying, are you in the US?
> 
> Rich
> 

Yep, I'm in the US.

-- 
James
http://www.e-host-direct.com
Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
0
semaj (77)
7/23/2007 4:17:13 PM
Despite all prevention efforts, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip
Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in news:f7ol32$b4u$2@online.de: 

> 
> I have 192 MB of memory in mine.  It can even run CSWB, but quite
> slowly.  I would recommend more memory and installing 8.3.
> 

This, unsurprisingly, seems to be the recurring theme.  So far, I have yet 
to track anyone down who has memory for this system.  I tried the person 
that was recommended in one of the post, but he has long since parted with 
the memory he was selling.  Anyone here happen to have any to part with or 
know someone who might?

thanks

-- 
James
http://www.e-host-direct.com
Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
0
semaj (77)
7/23/2007 4:19:04 PM
Slor wrote:
> Despite all prevention efforts, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip
> Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in news:f7ol32$b4u$2@online.de: 
> 
> 
>>I have 192 MB of memory in mine.  It can even run CSWB, but quite
>>slowly.  I would recommend more memory and installing 8.3.
>>
> 
> 
> This, unsurprisingly, seems to be the recurring theme.  So far, I have yet 
> to track anyone down who has memory for this system.  I tried the person 
> that was recommended in one of the post, but he has long since parted with 
> the memory he was selling.  Anyone here happen to have any to part with or 
> know someone who might?
> 
> thanks
> 

Try "Memory World".  ISTR buying Alpha compatible memory from them once 
upon a time.  Genuine DEC parts may be hard to come by but there should 
be lots of "third party" memory available.


0
rgilbert88 (4439)
7/23/2007 6:09:56 PM
In article <Xns99767D7D1E6E8emuslor@216.196.97.136>,
 Slor <semaj@rols.ten> wrote:

> Despite all prevention efforts, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip
> Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in news:f7ol32$b4u$2@online.de: 
> 
> > 
> > I have 192 MB of memory in mine.  It can even run CSWB, but quite
> > slowly.  I would recommend more memory and installing 8.3.
> > 
> 
> This, unsurprisingly, seems to be the recurring theme.  So far, I have yet 
> to track anyone down who has memory for this system.  I tried the person 
> that was recommended in one of the post, but he has long since parted with 
> the memory he was selling.  Anyone here happen to have any to part with or 
> know someone who might?
> 
> thanks

DEC 3000 systems (EXCEPT for the model 300 flavors, which are different) 
take memory in groups of 8 identical SIMMs.  Memory wasn't particularly 
standardized back then (1992), and these SIMMs don't match any PC memory 
AFAIK.

DEC 3000-M600 systems take either 1 or 2 memory kits (8 or 16 SIMMs 
total).

DEC part numbers for memory kits were:
MS15-BA (16 MB kit)   - discontinued early, rare, I've never seen them
MS15-CA (32 MB kit)
MS15-DA (64 MB kit)
MS15-EA (128 MB kit)  - originally expensive, now uncommon
MS15-FA (256 MB kit)  - originally very expensive, now rare

These are all 100-pin SIMMs.

The 32 MB kit only has RAM chips on 1 side; the 64 MB kit uses the same 
board, with chips on both sides.

Similarly, the 128 MB kit has chips on 1 side; the 256 MB kit has chips 
on both sides.

In addition to DEC, a few other vendors made compatible memory.  
Kingston and DataRAM at least.

I find a few kits available on ebay now.  I searched for MS15-CA, 
MS15-DA, and so on.  I see all kit sizes from 32 MB up to 256 MB.
0
7/24/2007 1:48:28 AM
Despite all prevention efforts, Robert Deininger
<rdeininger@mindspring.dot.com> wrote in
news:rdeininger-8E3557.21482623072007@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net
..mx: 

> The 32 MB kit only has RAM chips on 1 side; the 64 MB kit uses the same 
> board, with chips on both sides.
> 
> Similarly, the 128 MB kit has chips on 1 side; the 256 MB kit has
> chips on both sides.
> 
> In addition to DEC, a few other vendors made compatible memory.  
> Kingston and DataRAM at least.
> 
> I find a few kits available on ebay now.  I searched for MS15-CA, 
> MS15-DA, and so on.  I see all kit sizes from 32 MB up to 256 MB.
> 

Thanks for all the info.  It's easier to seach eBay knowing the model 
numbers. :)

-- 
James
http://www.e-host-direct.com
Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
0
semaj (77)
7/24/2007 7:40:27 PM
On Jul 23, 11:17 am, Slor <se...@rols.ten> wrote:
> Despite all prevention efforts, Rich Jordan <jor...@ccs4vms.com> wrote innews:1184860202.907167.195300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jul 18, 12:26 pm, Slor <se...@rols.ten> wrote:
> >> Thanks guys for all the feedback.
>
> >> --
> >> Jameshttp://www.e-host-direct.com
> >> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
>
> > James,
> >      if you don't mind saying, are you in the US?
>
> > Rich
>
> Yep, I'm in the US.
>
> --
> Jameshttp://www.e-host-direct.com
> Reliable web hosting from $12/year.

James,
     the email address for you that shows up in google groups is
invalid.  Send me an email please; I have a small memory kit you can
have.

Rich


0
jordan (1228)
7/25/2007 8:53:43 PM
Despite all prevention efforts, Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote
in news:1185396823.058113.41750@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com: 

> James,
>      the email address for you that shows up in google groups is
> invalid.  Send me an email please; I have a small memory kit you can
> have.
> 

Sent!

-- 
James
http://www.e-host-direct.com
Reliable web hosting from $12/year.
0
semaj (77)
7/26/2007 4:45:32 AM
Reply: