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"CS" or "Master and Slave"?

My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now; once 
it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.

I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers 
were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".  The 
shop says the manual is wrong.
Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the nicked 
cable was the problem the whole time.
Thanks. 


0
John
11/25/2004 2:45:21 PM
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John wrote:

> My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now;
> once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
> Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
> 
> I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers
> were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
> However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".  The
> shop says the manual is wrong.
> Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the nicked
> cable was the problem the whole time.
> Thanks.

If your BIOS has no problem with it, setting the jumpers to Cable Select
(CS) is simply convenient if you swap drives, remove drives, add drives
etc. It just means that you won't have to manually set the jumpers, that
the position (1 or 2) a drive has on the cable determines wether it's slave
or master. There's nothing wrong with setting the jumpers to Slave and
Master respectively, the end result is the same. CS is just easier - if
it's supported by the BIOS. If the manual for your BIOS says to set the
jumpers to CS, then it obviously supports Cable Select, so it would be the
shop who is wrong, not your manual. But either way, it makes no difference
once the system is up and running.

-- 
I win!

"Yeah dad, we'd rather have a live pussy mincing around the house than a
dead hero anyday!"
- Bart Simpson

0
DanielEKFA
11/25/2004 3:51:45 PM
John wrote:

> My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now;
> once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
> Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
> 
> I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers
> were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
> However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".  The
> shop says the manual is wrong.
> Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the nicked
> cable was the problem the whole time.

Neither is "wrong".  Whether you use cable select or master slave is mostly
a matter of taste.  Cable select can be convenient if you swap drives
regularly but if you do that you should probably go to SATA anyway.

Where was the nick in the cable?  For cable select to work one conductor has
to be cut at a certain point.  Some manufacturers of cable assemblies do
this by leaving out a contact in the connector, others by drilling a hole
in the cable.  If that's what they were referring to then you really should
find a different shop because these guys aren't staying up to date.  If
there's a cut somewhere else then that was the problem, not the cable
select.

Did you reseat the cables before you took it in?  It's amazing how many
times that fixes the problem.

> Thanks.

-- 
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
0
J
11/25/2004 4:37:29 PM
"John" <John@john.com> wrote in message news:5empd.4663$at5.222@news02.roc.ny
> My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now; once
> it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
> Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
> 
> I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers
> were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
> However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".  

> The shop says the manual is wrong.

The shop is wrong and the manual correct if the 
cable supports CableSelect which it probably does.

> Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  

Nope, Master/Slave is fine too. Cable Select is an alternative that 
sets Master or Slave automatically depending on cable position.

> Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time.
> Thanks.
0
Folkert
11/25/2004 4:55:04 PM
> Where was the nick in the cable?  For cable select to work one conductor 
> has
> to be cut at a certain point.  Some manufacturers of cable assemblies do
> this by leaving out a contact in the connector, others by drilling a hole
> in the cable.  If that's what they were referring to then you really 
> should
> find a different shop because these guys aren't staying up to date.  If
> there's a cut somewhere else then that was the problem, not the cable
> select.

The insulation was off right near one edge, the conductor was not cut 
through.  I figured I had caught it in the case when closing it, or 
something like that.
My "hypothesis" was that it  had an intermittent short that finally went 
permanent.
>
> Did you reseat the cables before you took it in?  It's amazing how many
> times that fixes the problem.
>
I reseated the cable on the motherboard but not on the harddrive.  Should 
have... 


0
John
11/25/2004 5:40:07 PM
John wrote:
>>Where was the nick in the cable?  For cable select to work one conductor 
>>has
>>to be cut at a certain point.  Some manufacturers of cable assemblies do
>>this by leaving out a contact in the connector, others by drilling a hole
>>in the cable.  If that's what they were referring to then you really 
>>should
>>find a different shop because these guys aren't staying up to date.  If
>>there's a cut somewhere else then that was the problem, not the cable
>>select.
> 
> 
> The insulation was off right near one edge, the conductor was not cut 
> through.  I figured I had caught it in the case when closing it, or 
> something like that.
> My "hypothesis" was that it  had an intermittent short that finally went 
> permanent.
> 
>>Did you reseat the cables before you took it in?  It's amazing how many
>>times that fixes the problem.
>>
> 
> I reseated the cable on the motherboard but not on the harddrive.  Should 
> have... 
> 
> 
I suspect replacing the damaged cable would have fixed the problem --
it should work with CS just as well as with master/slave.  Setting
master/slave just overrides CS; as long as you don't have another
drive on the cable that conflicts, things should be ok.

-- 
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
0
CJT
11/25/2004 6:53:44 PM
"DanielEKFA" <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam> wrote in message news:30mdb9F326vg2U1@uni-berlin.de
> John wrote:
> 
> > My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now;
> > once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
> > Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
> > 
> > I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers
> > were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
> > However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".  
> > The  shop says the manual is wrong.
> > Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the nicked
> > cable was the problem the whole time.
> > Thanks.
> 
> If your BIOS has no problem with it, setting the jumpers to Cable Select
> (CS) is simply convenient if you swap drives, remove drives, add drives
> etc. It just means that you won't have to manually set the jumpers, that
> the position (1 or 2) a drive has on the cable determines wether it's slave
> or master. There's nothing wrong with setting the jumpers to Slave and
> Master respectively, the end result is the same. CS is just easier - 

> if it's supported by the BIOS. 

Clueless. 
The bios has nothing to do with it.

> If the manual for your BIOS says to set the
> jumpers to CS, then it obviously supports Cable Select, so it would be the
> shop who is wrong, not your manual. But either way, it makes no difference
> once the system is up and running.
0
Folkert
11/25/2004 11:26:19 PM
In article <co5330026am@news1.newsguy.com>, jclarke@nospam.invalid 
says...
> John wrote:
> 
> > My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now;
> > once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
> > Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
> > 
> > I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers
> > were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
> > However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".  The
> > shop says the manual is wrong.
> > Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the nicked
> > cable was the problem the whole time.
> 
> Neither is "wrong".  Whether you use cable select or master slave is mostly
> a matter of taste.  Cable select can be convenient if you swap drives
> regularly but if you do that you should probably go to SATA anyway.

  Cable Select also requires a cable that supports it. I think most of 
the newer 80-wire do, but many older 40-wire don't.

-- 
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the 
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
0
Andrew
11/26/2004 2:26:52 PM
Andrew Rossmann wrote:

> In article <co5330026am@news1.newsguy.com>, jclarke@nospam.invalid
> says...
>> John wrote:
>> 
>> > My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now;
>> > once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
>> > Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
>> > 
>> > I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the
>> > jumpers
>> > were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
>> > However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". 
>> > The shop says the manual is wrong.
>> > Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the
>> > nicked cable was the problem the whole time.
>> 
>> Neither is "wrong".  Whether you use cable select or master slave is
>> mostly
>> a matter of taste.  Cable select can be convenient if you swap drives
>> regularly but if you do that you should probably go to SATA anyway.
> 
>   Cable Select also requires a cable that supports it. I think most of
> the newer 80-wire do, but many older 40-wire don't.

The second sentence in the next paragraph, which you snipped, was
"For�cable�select�to�work�one�conductor�has to be cut at a certain point."

-- 
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
0
J
11/26/2004 4:37:07 PM
Folkert Rienstra wrote:

> "DanielEKFA" <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam> wrote in message
> news:30mdb9F326vg2U1@uni-berlin.de
>> John wrote:
>> 
>> > My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year now;
>> > once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time.
>> > Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime.
>> > 
>> > I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the
>> > jumpers
>> > were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
>> > However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".
>> > The  shop says the manual is wrong.
>> > Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the
>> > nicked cable was the problem the whole time.
>> > Thanks.
>> 
>> If your BIOS has no problem with it, setting the jumpers to Cable Select
>> (CS) is simply convenient if you swap drives, remove drives, add drives
>> etc. It just means that you won't have to manually set the jumpers, that
>> the position (1 or 2) a drive has on the cable determines wether it's
>> slave or master. There's nothing wrong with setting the jumpers to Slave
>> and Master respectively, the end result is the same. CS is just easier -
> 
>> if it's supported by the BIOS.
> 
> Clueless.
> The bios has nothing to do with it.
> 

Ah, the socially retarded troll boy! :D You're such a fool - to think you'd
actually say this, LOL! Oh, I'm glad I somehow failed to add you to my
killfile on the last pathetic ramble you spewed out, otherwise I wouldn't
have seen this. LOL :D Hee hee hee :D Ahhhh... 

Now let's see if I can get you added to that killfile of mine this time...
Oh yeah, that's the stuff!

PLONK

>> If the manual for your BIOS says to set the
>> jumpers to CS, then it obviously supports Cable Select, so it would be
>> the shop who is wrong, not your manual. But either way, it makes no
>> difference once the system is up and running.

-- 
I win!

"Yeah dad, we'd rather have a live pussy mincing around the house than a
dead hero anyday!"
- Bart Simpson

"I pitty the fool who derives self esteem from mocking other people's
clothes!"
- Mr. T

0
DanielEKFA
11/27/2004 3:32:03 PM
DanielEKFA wrote:

> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> 
>> "DanielEKFA" <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam> wrote in message
>> news:30mdb9F326vg2U1@uni-berlin.de
>>> John wrote:
>>> 
>>> > My eMachine 1860, running WXP,  has been flakey on boot for a year
>>> > now; once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the
>>> > time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS"
>>> > everytime.
>>> > 
>>> > I took it in to the shop.  They found a cable was nicked and the
>>> > jumpers
>>> > were wrong.  They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well.
>>> > However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS".
>>> > The  shop says the manual is wrong.
>>> > Does it matter as long as the machine is working?  Presumably the
>>> > nicked cable was the problem the whole time.
>>> > Thanks.
>>> 
>>> If your BIOS has no problem with it, setting the jumpers to Cable Select
>>> (CS) is simply convenient if you swap drives, remove drives, add drives
>>> etc. It just means that you won't have to manually set the jumpers, that
>>> the position (1 or 2) a drive has on the cable determines wether it's
>>> slave or master. There's nothing wrong with setting the jumpers to Slave
>>> and Master respectively, the end result is the same. CS is just easier -
>> 
>>> if it's supported by the BIOS.
>> 
>> Clueless.
>> The bios has nothing to do with it.
>> 
> 
> Ah, the socially retarded troll boy! :D You're such a fool - to think
> you'd actually say this, LOL! Oh, I'm glad I somehow failed to add you to
> my killfile on the last pathetic ramble you spewed out, otherwise I
> wouldn't have seen this. LOL :D Hee hee hee :D Ahhhh...
> 
> Now let's see if I can get you added to that killfile of mine this time...
> Oh yeah, that's the stuff!
> 
> PLONK

Actually, for once he's right.  Cable Select is not a BIOS function, it's
hardware, the IDE equivalent of the twisted cable that is used for diskette
drives.  The only difference between cable select and jumpering for
master/slave is that when cable select is used which is master and which is
slave is determined by the position of the drive on the cable instead of by
an explicit jumper setting.

>>> If the manual for your BIOS says to set the
>>> jumpers to CS, then it obviously supports Cable Select, so it would be
>>> the shop who is wrong, not your manual. But either way, it makes no
>>> difference once the system is up and running.
> 

-- 
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
0
J
11/27/2004 6:15:31 PM
"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>Andrew Rossmann wrote:
>> 
>>   Cable Select also requires a cable that supports it. I think most of
>> the newer 80-wire do, but many older 40-wire don't.
>
>The second sentence in the next paragraph, which you snipped, was
>"For�cable�select�to�work�one�conductor�has to be cut at a certain point."

Or the appropriate pin removed from the connector...

0
chrisv
11/30/2004 6:36:07 PM
Reply: