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Hard Disc linking

Hi,

I have just installed a second hard disc (with no links, = slave) and 
all works perfectly.

I had to work out whether the boot disc was configured as a Master or as 
Drive select so I checked the documentation that came with the disc many 
years ago.

I was surprised as to how the boot disc is configured.

All works well was I didn't alter anything but I am left curious.

The boot disc is a Maxtor 5T030H3 and is linked as follows;

Link between Pins 1 and 6
Link between Pins 2 and 3

X = Pin
O = No Pin

1   2   3   4   5
X   X  X   O  X
X   X  X   X   X
6   7  8    9   10

The manual say for a master there should be a link between 1 and 6 but 
does not show any other links present.

Now all works fine so I was curious as to what the link between 2 and 3 
is for.

Maybe it is just 'parked' there, this is making the assumption that pins 
2 and 3 are earth pins.

Does anyone know the real reason?

Thanks

0
nospam
7/27/2005 9:33:01 PM
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nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have just installed a second hard disc (with no links, = slave) and
> all works perfectly.
>
> I had to work out whether the boot disc was configured as a Master or
> as Drive select so I checked the documentation that came with the
> disc many years ago.
>
> I was surprised as to how the boot disc is configured.
>
> All works well was I didn't alter anything but I am left curious.
>
> The boot disc is a Maxtor 5T030H3 and is linked as follows;
>
> Link between Pins 1 and 6
> Link between Pins 2 and 3
>
> X = Pin
> O = No Pin
>
> 1   2   3   4   5
> X   X  X   O  X
> X   X  X   X   X
> 6   7  8    9   10
>
> The manual say for a master there should be a link between 1 and 6 but
> does not show any other links present.
>
> Now all works fine so I was curious as to what the link between 2 and
> 3 is for.

> Maybe it is just 'parked' there, this is making the assumption that pins 2 and 
> 3 are earth pins.

Yep, very likely, tho the official park position is between pins 4 and 5,
even tho there is no pin 4. Not as satisfactory tho because that only
has one pin the jumper and so it can fall off easier.

> Does anyone know the real reason?


0
Rod
7/27/2005 9:54:04 PM
Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,

> I have just installed a second hard disc (with no links, = slave) and 
> all works perfectly.

> I had to work out whether the boot disc was configured as a Master or as 
> Drive select so I checked the documentation that came with the disc many 
> years ago.

> I was surprised as to how the boot disc is configured.

> All works well was I didn't alter anything but I am left curious.

> The boot disc is a Maxtor 5T030H3 and is linked as follows;

> Link between Pins 1 and 6
> Link between Pins 2 and 3

> X = Pin
> O = No Pin

> 1   2   3   4   5
> X   X  X   O  X
> X   X  X   X   X
> 6   7  8    9   10

> The manual say for a master there should be a link between 1 and 6 but 
> does not show any other links present.

> Now all works fine so I was curious as to what the link between 2 and 3 
> is for.

> Maybe it is just 'parked' there, this is making the assumption that pins 
> 2 and 3 are earth pins.

> Does anyone know the real reason?

That looks like an incorrectly parked jumper. Either both pins are 
ground or both are connected to pull-up resistors. In both cases the
jumper does nothing and should not have any negative impact, but
still it likely is a not documented position and any kind of
problem could (unlikely in this case) result.

BTW, it is called "jumpered" because the bridges are "jumpers". 

Arno
0
Arno
7/27/2005 10:41:00 PM
On 27 Jul 2005 22:41:00 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>BTW, it is called "jumpered" because the bridges are "jumpers". 

Wait, do you think they "link start" their cars when the battery is dead
in the UK?  :)

-- 
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
0
Michael
7/27/2005 11:24:22 PM
> The manual say for a master there should be a link between 1 and 6 but
> does not show any other links present.
>
> Now all works fine so I was curious as to what the link between 2 and 3
> is for.
>
> Maybe it is just 'parked' there, this is making the assumption that pins
> 2 and 3 are earth pins.
>
> Does anyone know the real reason?

                     Pin 1
     J1 IDE Connector  |                J2 Power
   ___________ ________|_________________________
  | .................... || @ * *   o |/         \
  | .......... ......... || @ o o o o || O O O O |
  |______________________||___________||_________|
                            | | | | |    | | | |
                            | | | | |    | | | |
      J50 Master/Slave -----' | | | |    | | | `-+12V
      J48 Cable Select -------' | | |    | | `---+12V Return
      J46 4092 Cyl Limitation---' | |    | `----- +5V Return
      J44 Factory Reserved -------' |    `------- +5V
      J42 Factory Reserved ---------'

        @ = Default Jumped Positions
        * = "Spare" Jumper Position
        o = Default Open   Positions


0
Peter
7/27/2005 11:56:27 PM
Thanks everyone

Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?

Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.

Thanks again.


Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> writes
>> The manual say for a master there should be a link between 1 and 6 but
>> does not show any other links present.
>>
>> Now all works fine so I was curious as to what the link between 2 and 3
>> is for.
>>
>> Maybe it is just 'parked' there, this is making the assumption that pins
>> 2 and 3 are earth pins.
>>
>> Does anyone know the real reason?
>
>                     Pin 1
>     J1 IDE Connector  |                J2 Power
>   ___________ ________|_________________________
>  | .................... || @ * *   o |/         \
>  | .......... ......... || @ o o o o || O O O O |
>  |______________________||___________||_________|
>                            | | | | |    | | | |
>                            | | | | |    | | | |
>      J50 Master/Slave -----' | | | |    | | | `-+12V
>      J48 Cable Select -------' | | |    | | `---+12V Return
>      J46 4092 Cyl Limitation---' | |    | `----- +5V Return
>      J44 Factory Reserved -------' |    `------- +5V
>      J42 Factory Reserved ---------'
>
>        @ = Default Jumped Positions
>        * = "Spare" Jumper Position
>        o = Default Open   Positions
>
>

0
nospam
7/28/2005 3:24:40 PM
Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Thanks everyone

> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?

Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS 
serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.

> Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.

Purely software, but might force you to buy new hardware.

Arno
0
Arno
7/28/2005 3:53:22 PM
Arno Wagner wrote:

> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Thanks everyone
> 
>> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
> 
> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.

Since the mainboard BIOS is bought from Phoenix or Award or AMI or one of
their competitors and not written by the mainboard manufacturer, this
doesn't seem to be a likely motivation.

One could argue that the 32-bit addressing limit in IDE was there to "force
the customer to buy new hardware".  In fact that limit is some 5,000 times
larger than the largest drives on the market when IDE first shipped, so it
seems more likely that it never occurred to anybody that PCs would ever
have drives that big.

>> Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.
> 
> Purely software, but might force you to buy new hardware.
> 
> Arno

-- 
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
0
J
7/28/2005 4:17:54 PM
Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Thanks everyone
>
>> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
>
> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.

Mindless conspiracy theory.

>> Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.

> Purely software, but might force you to buy new hardware.


0
TonyB
7/28/2005 7:10:13 PM
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message news:dcb17406tn@news3.newsguy.com
> Arno Wagner wrote:
> 
> > Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Thanks everyone
> > 
> > > Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
> > 
> > Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
> > when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
> > this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
> > that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
> > serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.
> 
> Since the mainboard BIOS is bought from Phoenix or Award or AMI or 
> one of their competitors and not written by the mainboard manufacturer, 
> this doesn't seem to be a likely motivation.

No? 
They get it for free so they don't get to tell what it can and cannot do?

> 
> One could argue that the 32-bit addressing limit in IDE 

What 32-bit addressing limit.

> was there to "force the customer to buy new hardware".  

> In fact that limit is some 5,000 times
> larger than the largest drives on the market when IDE first shipped, 

At that time the bios interface was still limited to 540MB drives.

> so it seems more likely that it never occurred to anybody that PCs would 
> ever have drives that big.
> 
> > > Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.
> > 
> > Purely software, but might force you to buy new hardware.
> > 
> > Arno


0
Folkert
7/28/2005 10:49:07 PM
"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3ksdbhF103jhpU1@individual.net
> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Thanks everyone
> 
> > Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?

What cylinder limit.
Any drive over 8GB has a cylinder limit by default.

> 
> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.
> 
> > Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.
> 
> Purely software, but might force you to buy new hardware.
> 
> Arno


0
Folkert
7/28/2005 10:49:24 PM
Folkert Rienstra <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:
> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:3ksdbhF103jhpU1@individual.net
>> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Thanks everyone
>>
>>> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
>
> What cylinder limit.
> Any drive over 8GB has a cylinder limit by default.

Wrong when LBA is used.

>> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
>> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
>> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
>> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
>> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.
>>
>>> Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.
>>
>> Purely software, but might force you to buy new hardware.


0
Rod
7/29/2005 1:28:33 AM
Previously J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Thanks everyone
>> 
>>> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
>> 
>> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
>> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
>> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
>> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
>> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.

> Since the mainboard BIOS is bought from Phoenix or Award or AMI or one of
> their competitors and not written by the mainboard manufacturer, this
> doesn't seem to be a likely motivation.

> One could argue that the 32-bit addressing limit in IDE was there to "force
> the customer to buy new hardware".  In fact that limit is some 5,000 times
> larger than the largest drives on the market when IDE first shipped, so it
> seems more likely that it never occurred to anybody that PCs would ever
> have drives that big.

Actually I expect it occured to lots of people, but they allways 
said, "what the hell, we can sell more Hardware/BIOS licenses 
that way if it does happen". I am not talking about the
32 bit limit, but also about the  set of limits that came before
it, which were many. 

Note that SCSI allways had 32bit sector addresses, even when PC
disks were limited to ~500MB by the BIOS, so there definitely were
people that expected these limits to be reached long ago. SCSI
did add longer addresses also quite some time ago.

Arno 
0
Arno
7/29/2005 2:34:36 PM
"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3kut3sFv4tfoU2@individual.net...
> Previously J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> > One could argue that the 32-bit addressing limit in IDE was there to "force
> > the customer to buy new hardware".  In fact that limit is some 5,000 times
> > larger than the largest drives on the market when IDE first shipped, so it
> > seems more likely that it never occurred to anybody that PCs would ever
> > have drives that big.
>
What 32-bit IDE limit?

> Actually I expect it occured to lots of people, but they allways
> said, "what the hell, we can sell more Hardware/BIOS licenses
> that way if it does happen". I am not talking about the
> 32 bit limit, but also about the  set of limits that came before
> it, which were many.
>
What 32-bit IDE limit?

> Note that SCSI allways had 32bit sector addresses, even when PC
> disks were limited to ~500MB by the BIOS, so there definitely were
> people that expected these limits to be reached long ago. SCSI
> did add longer addresses also quite some time ago.
>
But SCSI was limited to 8GB 10 years ago, even with 32-bit.

You two idiots can continue showing the group your ignorance of IDE.
The rest of us know the actual IDE hardware limits, and Int13 limits.


0
Eric
7/29/2005 4:55:13 PM
> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
>
> Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.

If you have an older system BIOS that does not address capacities over 2.1GB
(BIOS dated pre 1995, or if you are experiencing system hang conditions) you
will need to close the 4092 cylinder limit jumper in conjunction with your
drive selection of Master, Slave or Cable Select.


0
Peter
7/29/2005 7:35:41 PM
"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3kut3sFv4tfoU2@individual.net...

>> Note that SCSI allways had 32bit sector addresses, even when PC
>> disks were limited to ~500MB by the BIOS, so there definitely were
>> people that expected these limits to be reached long ago. SCSI
>> did add longer addresses also quite some time ago.
>>
>But SCSI was limited to 8GB 10 years ago, even with 32-bit.

And you just continue show your ignorance on most - make that all
things. Talk about dim you are a 5 watter.  Doing quite well this week
I see, no idea on hard drives, no idea on chipsets. What's next weeks
subject you want to show your ignorance of? 

Oh and before you spout any more misleading crap 9Gb SCSI drives were
working perfectly well on PC's, even those running Windoze more than
10 years ago. 


-- 
0
Frank
7/29/2005 9:18:29 PM
"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3kut3sFv4tfoU2@individual.net...
> Previously J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
> > Arno Wagner wrote:
> 
> >> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> Thanks everyone
> >> 
> >>> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
> >> 
> >> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
> >> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
> >> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
> >> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
> >> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.
> 
> > Since the mainboard BIOS is bought from Phoenix or Award or AMI or one of
> > their competitors and not written by the mainboard manufacturer, this
> > doesn't seem to be a likely motivation.
> 
> > One could argue that the 32-bit addressing limit in IDE was there to "force
> > the customer to buy new hardware".  In fact that limit is some 5,000 times
> > larger than the largest drives on the market when IDE first shipped, so it
> > seems more likely that it never occurred to anybody that PCs would ever
> > have drives that big.
> 
> Actually I expect it occured to lots of people, but they allways 
> said, "what the hell, we can sell more Hardware/BIOS licenses 
> that way if it does happen". 

> I am not talking about the 32-bit limit, but also about the  set of limits 
> that came before  it, which were many. 

Nope, ATA started with 28-bit (not 32-bit) right from ATA-1.

> 
> Note that SCSI allways had 32bit sector addresses, even when PC
> disks were limited to ~500MB by the BIOS, so there definitely were
> people that expected these limits to be reached long ago. SCSI
> did add longer addresses also quite some time ago.
> 
> Arno
0
Folkert
7/29/2005 10:37:41 PM
"Peter" <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:7yvGe.6681$q23.1140806@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
> >
> > Is it a hardware issue or an OS issue.
> 
> If you have an older system BIOS that does not address capacities over 2.1GB

Not necessarily a problem.

> (BIOS dated pre 1995, 

> or if you are experiencing system hang conditions) 

Right.

> you will need to close the 4092 cylinder limit jumper 

Or 2 GB capacity limitation jumper. 4092 assumes a 16 head translation.

> in conjunction with your  drive selection of Master, Slave or Cable Select.
> 
>
0
Folkert
7/29/2005 10:38:57 PM
"Frank" <emptyemail@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:0n6le19h3eplu7epmptul11p193n84rksf@4ax.com...
> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3kut3sFv4tfoU2@individual.net...
>
> >> Note that SCSI allways had 32bit sector addresses, even when PC
> >> disks were limited to ~500MB by the BIOS, so there definitely were
> >> people that expected these limits to be reached long ago. SCSI
> >> did add longer addresses also quite some time ago.
> >>
> >But SCSI was limited to 8GB 10 years ago, even with 32-bit.
>
> And you just continue show your ignorance on most - make that all
> things. Talk about dim you are a 5 watter.  Doing quite well this week
> I see, no idea on hard drives, no idea on chipsets. What's next weeks
> subject you want to show your ignorance of?
>
Tell us more about the 32-bit limit in IDE. Remember snipping that part?

Then tell us how a 10 year old BIOS supports more than 8GB.
Provide the date and version number of Adaptec's BIOS doing so.

> Oh and before you spout any more misleading crap 9Gb SCSI drives were
> working perfectly well on PC's, even those running Windoze more than
> 10 years ago.
>
So think Martin is right? Then help him out. He's losing his mind.

Perhaps you should shut up and listen to those of us who know their stuff.


0
Eric
7/30/2005 2:30:32 AM
Arno Wagner wrote:

> Previously J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
>> Arno Wagner wrote:
> 
>>> Previously nospam <nospam@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Thanks everyone
>>> 
>>>> Why would you want/need to have a cylinder limit?
>>> 
>>> Simple: For software that was designed to stop working
>>> when a certain number of cylinders is exceeded. Some say
>>> this is simply lack of vision, but I strongly suspect
>>> that doing this type of coding in a mainboard BIOS
>>> serves to force the customer to buy new hardware.
> 
>> Since the mainboard BIOS is bought from Phoenix or Award or AMI or one of
>> their competitors and not written by the mainboard manufacturer, this
>> doesn't seem to be a likely motivation.
> 
>> One could argue that the 32-bit addressing limit in IDE was there to
>> "force
>> the customer to buy new hardware".  In fact that limit is some 5,000
>> times larger than the largest drives on the market when IDE first
>> shipped, so it seems more likely that it never occurred to anybody that
>> PCs would ever have drives that big.
> 
> Actually I expect it occured to lots of people, but they allways
> said, "what the hell, we can sell more Hardware/BIOS licenses
> that way if it does happen". I am not talking about the
> 32 bit limit, but also about the  set of limits that came before
> it, which were many.

First, BIOS manufacturers don't sell to end users, so they would not be
likely to be selling new licenses as a result of the limits, and second the
only people running the kind of machines that were in existence when the
limits were established are a few hobbyists with a taste for antiques.

> Note that SCSI allways had 32bit sector addresses, even when PC
> disks were limited to ~500MB by the BIOS, so there definitely were
> people that expected these limits to be reached long ago. SCSI
> did add longer addresses also quite some time ago.
> 
> Arno

-- 
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
0
J
8/1/2005 8:38:57 PM
Reply:

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I have a couple of old Classic MPE V/E boxes which I fire up periodically. Everything runs at present, but the hard drive bearings are starting to sing and warn me of their impending failure. If you remember, the old Classic boxes use HPIB (GPIB, IEEE-488) as the interface for hard drives. As HPIB hard drives are getting pretty rare, I'm wondering if anyone has been successful in putting a GPIB-to-PCI interface card in a Windows PC, writing code for the PC to make its GPIB interface look to the Classic 3000 like a 7937, and then successfully running the Classic 3000 wi...

Backup OS-9 hard drives on PC hardware.
When I was trying to back up my SyQuest EZ135 SCSI hard drive on a PC, I ran in to an interesting problem. I had the PC (parallel) version of the EZ135, and a SCSI version (hooked to my OS-9 machine). When I inserted a non-DOS formatted platter, the PC would not recognize it. The BIOS (or something) wanted the first sector to be PC-ish. So, my solution was to write a quick program in C to back up the first 512 bytes (sector) of the OS-9 disk, and copy the 512-byte sector from a PC disk to the OS-9 disk. This created an OS-9 disk (unusuable) that would be recognized by the PC. From...

pc.hardware.storage - backup strategy
So here I am: I chose to use 2 hard drives one master & one to be used to store a "backup" of the primary/master/whatever. (don't mention the war! - meant to say RAID) How do I set up xp + whatever application and/or procedure, to create the best/easiest/current capability to restore, after a hardware failure of the master. you may have seen this asked before, by me. sorry should be raid 1 but i may not have a choice, so was looking for second best. any recommendations for another group? DonLogan <navajo@neonfeather.com> wrote: > So here I am...

Re: Classic MPE Hardware to PC Hard Drive Question
remember a hpib small drive was just a regular drive sometimes with a hpib interface board hooked to it... was so with workstations and I assume the small 3000 drives same? My 3000 drive times were with the washing machine sized oldies (7925 etc. Thanks, Ed Sharpe, Archivist for SMECC Web Site at _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org/) We are always looking for items to add to the museum's display and ref. library - please advise if you have anything we can use. Coury House / SMECC 5802 W. Palmaire Ave. Phone 623-435-1522 Glendale Az 85301...

Risc PC 600 broken
Hi everyone, My old Risc PC 600, which has been sitting in a storeroom for 8 years, unsurprisingly, doesn't work. My brother discovered that the CMOS battery has leaked onto the motherboard, which is likely to be the culprit. I'm likely to throw the whole machine in the local recycling centre, but would like to recover the hard disc contents before I do so. I was wondering if anyone could assist in installing my 200mb hard disc to their RPC, and transfer the contents to CD-ROM, so I can use it with Virtual Risc PC? There is potentially lots of good stuff on there (games I wrote, game...

[Q] Hard links and soft links?
Hi, I would like to know which files are linked to a certain file? For example, After doing these, ln -s ORIG /somewhere/softlinks ln -s ORIG /somewhere2/softlinks ln ORIG /somewhere/hardlinks1 ln ORIG /somewhere2/hardlinks2 Before deleting the file named ORIG, I would like to know what files (the full path of the link files) are linked to the file ORIG. TIA. On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:18:23 GMT, "Tester A." <benew666@hotmail.com> wrote: > Before deleting the file named ORIG, I would like to know what files (the > full path of the link files) are linked to the fi...

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