f



hard drive power sequencer, hard drive startup sequencer

Does anyone make a power sequencer that
could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
time.

*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/3/2003 12:23:37 AM
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For IDE drives? Nope, can't be done.

They only draw 2A @ 12v, so you only need a 250W power supply.

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:BfidnXwxc52mqciiXTWJkw@comcast.com...
| Does anyone make a power sequencer that
| could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
| rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
| in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
| supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
| time.
|
| *TimDaniels*

0
Eric
9/3/2003 1:52:17 AM
Dumb question, but...why?


"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:BfidnXwxc52mqciiXTWJkw@comcast.com...
> Does anyone make a power sequencer that
> could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
> rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
> in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
> supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
> time.
>
> *TimDaniels*


0
Hiawatha
9/3/2003 2:22:10 AM
"Hiawatha Bray" asked:
> Dumb question, but...why?
> 
> 
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> > could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
> > rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
> > in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
> > supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
> > time.


    Why what?

*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/3/2003 2:51:42 AM
I spin up 8 SCSI drives in this system.  I can jumper them to spin up
at so many seconds times the drive ID (which I don't like) or set them
up to spin up sequentially when each gets the right signal from the
SCSI controller at the end of the post.  Don't know of anything that
will do that with IDEs tho, sorry....

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:23:37 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

>Does anyone make a power sequencer that
>could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
>rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
>in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
>supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
>time.
>
>*TimDaniels*

~~~~~~
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0
kurt_SPAMLESS
9/3/2003 3:07:10 AM
raid 0,1 would be one reason for 4 drives

"Hiawatha Bray" <watha@monitortan.com> wrote in message
news:mfc5b.20283$NC2.9200@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> Dumb question, but...why?
>
>
> "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
> news:BfidnXwxc52mqciiXTWJkw@comcast.com...
> > Does anyone make a power sequencer that
> > could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
> > rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
> > in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
> > supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
> > time.
> >
> > *TimDaniels*
>
>


0
Tom
9/3/2003 3:46:08 AM
Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:BfidnXwxc52mqciiXTWJkw@comcast.com...

> Does anyone make a power sequencer that could be used
> to startup hard drives sequentially rather than all at once?
> I'd like to put 4 HDs in my PC, and I don't want to load the
> power supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same time.

No need for anything special with 4 IDE drives.

Just use an adequate power supply.

If the power supply isnt adequate, replacing it with a bigger
supply would be a lot cheaper than a power sequencer.


0
Rod
9/3/2003 4:23:26 AM
My Dell Dimension's PSU is rated at 200w.
I'm worried that a voltage sag due to 4 HDs
spooling up simultaneously might impact
something negatively.  The subject of HD
power up sequencig came up when Barry
O'Grady said in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on
August 15th that he had such a sequencer.

*TimDaniels*

"Eric Gisin" wrote:
> For IDE drives? Nope, can't be done.
> 
> They only draw 2A @ 12v, so you only need
> a 250W power supply.
> 
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> | Does anyone make a power sequencer that
> | could be used to startup hard drives sequentially
> | rather than all at once?  I'd like to put 4 HDs
> | in my PC, and I don't want to load the power
> | supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same
> | time.

0
Timothy
9/3/2003 7:25:15 AM
"Rod Speed" wrote:
> 
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone make a power sequencer that could be used
> > to startup hard drives sequentially rather than all at once?
> > I'd like to put 4 HDs in my PC, and I don't want to load the
> > power supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same time.
> 
> No need for anything special with 4 IDE drives.
> 
> Just use an adequate power supply.
> 
> If the power supply isnt adequate, replacing it with a bigger
> supply would be a lot cheaper than a power sequencer.


    That sounds like good advice, and that may be the only
practical solution.  One problem generated by that, though,
is that Dell's motherboards and power supplies do something
weird (I'm not sure what) with the pinout in the connector
(and perhaps with the connector as well) to make their PSUs
and mobos proprietary.  And power sequencing has an extra
coolness factor that I can't ignore.   :-)


*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/3/2003 7:32:29 AM
"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> My Dell Dimension's PSU is rated at 200w.
> I'm worried that a voltage sag due to 4 HDs
> spooling up simultaneously might impact
> something negatively....


    OK, I see PC Power & Cooling has 275w
and 300w Dell replacement PSUs now for $89.
That may or may not be cost effective - the
Dell PSUs are reputedly very underrated,
and a 200w Dell PSU is supposedly the
equivalent of 3rd party PSUs rated at 250W
to 300w.  If I can get a power sequencer for
the same or less money, I'd rather go with
with the sequencer.

*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/3/2003 8:24:11 AM
"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:272cnfbaks5BOciiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
>
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> > My Dell Dimension's PSU is rated at 200w.
> > I'm worried that a voltage sag due to 4 HDs
> > spooling up simultaneously might impact
> > something negatively....
>
>
>     OK, I see PC Power & Cooling has 275w
> and 300w Dell replacement PSUs now for $89.
> That may or may not be cost effective - the
> Dell PSUs are reputedly very underrated,
> and a 200w Dell PSU is supposedly the
> equivalent of 3rd party PSUs rated at 250W
> to 300w.  If I can get a power sequencer for
> the same or less money, I'd rather go with
> with the sequencer.

Mad, and they dont exist anyway.


0
Rod
9/3/2003 10:01:20 AM
"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:soWdnagz58IiBciiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
>
> "Rod Speed" wrote:
> >
> > Timothy Daniels wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone make a power sequencer that could be used
> > > to startup hard drives sequentially rather than all at once?
> > > I'd like to put 4 HDs in my PC, and I don't want to load the
> > > power supply with spinning up all 4 HDs at the same time.
> >
> > No need for anything special with 4 IDE drives.
> >
> > Just use an adequate power supply.
> >
> > If the power supply isnt adequate, replacing it with a bigger
> > supply would be a lot cheaper than a power sequencer.
>
>
>     That sounds like good advice, and that may be the only
> practical solution.  One problem generated by that, though,
> is that Dell's motherboards and power supplies do something
> weird (I'm not sure what) with the pinout in the connector
> (and perhaps with the connector as well) to make their PSUs
> and mobos proprietary.  And power sequencing has an extra
> coolness factor that I can't ignore.   :-)

Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.


0
Rod
9/3/2003 10:02:28 AM
"Rod Speed" wrote:
> 
> Mad, and they dont exist anyway.


    That's me - if they don't exist,
    look harder.   :-)


*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/3/2003 10:34:43 AM
"Rod Speed" wrote:
> Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.


    You know, that's interesting.  What does the BIOS do
    while it's waiting for the Master hard drive to spool up?
    I mean, there must be a wait involved since it starts up
    immediately up application of power while the hard drive
    takes several seconds to come up to speed.  There must
    be a signal from the hard drive that tells the BIOS that it
    can proceed with the boot strap loading.  It would seem
    that it wouldn't be too hard to extend that wait until all the
    hard drive spool-ups have completed before proceeding.


*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/3/2003 10:43:49 AM
On 2003-09-03 12:43, Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote:
> 
>>Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.
> 
> 
> 
>     You know, that's interesting.  What does the BIOS do
>     while it's waiting for the Master hard drive to spool up?
>     I mean, there must be a wait involved since it starts up
>     immediately up application of power while the hard drive
>     takes several seconds to come up to speed.  There must
>     be a signal from the hard drive that tells the BIOS that it
>     can proceed with the boot strap loading.  It would seem
>     that it wouldn't be too hard to extend that wait until all the
>     hard drive spool-ups have completed before proceeding.
> 
> 
> *TimDaniels*

Depends on what BIOS you are using; you should wait for IDE master/slave 
negotiations to complete. If the drives don't power up at roughly the 
same time, this negotiation fails, and you may only see a single drive 
on each IDE cable. (or none, in some odd situations)

Powering all +5V immediately, and only delaying +12V, would likely 
result in diagnostic errors in the drives own firmware, and possibly 
cause the drive to have random lockups at boot, unless the internal 
logic is designed with power sequencing in mind.

Ask the drive manufacturer directly, and see what they say.

SCSI is much better at this than IDE, since SCSI drives have a motor-on 
command that lets the controller start up the drives in sequence.
(it usually requires a drive strap setting + controller configuration)

/Rolf

0
Rolf
9/3/2003 3:18:20 PM
"Rolf Blom" <allspam@round.bin> wrote in message news:0Dn5b.25$VS2.59950@uab.ericsson.se...
> On 2003-09-03 12:43, Timothy Daniels wrote:
> > "Rod Speed" wrote:
> > 
> >>Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >     You know, that's interesting.  What does the BIOS do
> >     while it's waiting for the Master hard drive to spool up?
> >     I mean, there must be a wait involved since it starts up
> >     immediately up application of power while the hard drive
> >     takes several seconds to come up to speed.  There must
> >     be a signal from the hard drive that tells the BIOS that it
> >     can proceed with the boot strap loading.  It would seem
> >     that it wouldn't be too hard to extend that wait until all the
> >     hard drive spool-ups have completed before proceeding.
> > 
> > 
> > *TimDaniels*
> 
> Depends on what BIOS you are using; you should wait for IDE master/slave 
> negotiations to complete. If the drives don't power up at roughly the 
> same time, this negotiation fails, and you may only see a single drive 
> on each IDE cable. (or none, in some odd situations)
> 
> Powering all +5V immediately, and only delaying +12V, would likely 
> result in diagnostic errors in the drives own firmware, and possibly 
> cause the drive to have random lockups at boot, unless the internal 
> logic is designed with power sequencing in mind.
> 
> Ask the drive manufacturer directly, and see what they say.
> 
> SCSI is much better at this than IDE, since SCSI drives have a motor-on 
> command that lets the controller start up the drives in sequence.

IDE has that too since ATA/ATAPI-5.

> (it usually requires a drive strap setting + controller configuration)
> 
> /Rolf
>
0
Folkert
9/3/2003 5:13:45 PM
Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:qA-dnbNRy8TpXsiiXTWJjg@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Mad, and they dont exist anyway.

> That's me - if they don't exist, look harder.   :-)

That wont exist if there is no market for the product.

And it wouldnt work anyway, the motherboard bios will have given
up looking for hard drives by the time the last one is powered up.


0
Rod
9/3/2003 6:08:07 PM
Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:sNKdnXCfnPsKWMiiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.

> You know, that's interesting.  What does the BIOS do
> while it's waiting for the Master hard drive to spool up?

It basically interrogates the drive on its details. Since the
drive is powered up and is itself waiting till the drive spins
up, it works fine. The bios doesnt wait forever and its very
unlikely indeed to still be polling for drives at the time that the
last drive of the 4 has been powered up by a power sequencer.

> I mean, there must be a wait involved since it starts
> up immediately up application of power while the hard
> drive takes several seconds to come up to speed.

Yes, but the drive electronics is obviously up and it can
take a second or so to reply to the request for its details.

> There must be a signal from the hard drive that tells the
> BIOS that it can proceed with the boot strap loading.

Not really. Initially the bios interrogates the drives on
their capabilitys, as part of the AUTO config mechanism,
and once its determined what drives are connected, then
just reads the MBR off the drive its been told to boot off,
identifys the partition to boot from and starts doing that etc.

> It would seem that it wouldn't be too hard to extend that wait until
> all the hard drive spool-ups have completed before proceeding.

Yes, there isnt any technical reason why say you
couldnt specify in the bios to allow say 10 secs for
all the drives to have spun up, but few bios have that.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to just get a better
power supply instead of farting around like that, and
thats why few bios have anything like that.

SCSI drives do have that capability, and the
bios on the SCSI card allow for that capability.



0
Rod
9/3/2003 6:16:22 PM
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rolf Blom <allspam@round.bin> wrote:
> On 2003-09-03 12:43, Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" wrote:
[...]
> Depends on what BIOS you are using; you should wait for IDE master/slave 
> negotiations to complete. If the drives don't power up at roughly the 
> same time, this negotiation fails, and you may only see a single drive 
> on each IDE cable. (or none, in some odd situations)

> Powering all +5V immediately, and only delaying +12V, would likely 
> result in diagnostic errors in the drives own firmware, and possibly 
> cause the drive to have random lockups at boot, unless the internal 
> logic is designed with power sequencing in mind.

> Ask the drive manufacturer directly, and see what they say.

> SCSI is much better at this than IDE, since SCSI drives have a motor-on 
> command that lets the controller start up the drives in sequence.
> (it usually requires a drive strap setting + controller configuration)

Some older IDE drives had an disable-aito-spin jumper. This
is not quite the same as sequenced spin-up, but might serve 
as well. Unfortunatetely this jumper seems gone today.

Arno

-- 
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
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0
Arno
9/4/2003 9:43:18 AM
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:08:07 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
>message news:qA-dnbNRy8TpXsiiXTWJjg@comcast.com...
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>> Mad, and they dont exist anyway.
>
>> That's me - if they don't exist, look harder.   :-)
>
>That wont exist if there is no market for the product.
>
>And it wouldnt work anyway, the motherboard bios will have given
>up looking for hard drives by the time the last one is powered up.

I have a card that is used for that purpose. It connects in line with the
power to a drive and delays the feeding of power on startup.


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
0
Barry
9/6/2003 3:34:34 AM
"Barry OGrady" wrote:
> I have a card that is used for that purpose. It connects
> in line with the power to a drive and delays the feeding
> of power on startup.


    There you are!  OK, where did you get it?  Is it still
    available?  Does it work with up to 4 IDE hard drives?


*TimDaniels*
0
Timothy
9/6/2003 7:33:51 AM
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 00:33:51 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

>
>"Barry OGrady" wrote:
>> I have a card that is used for that purpose. It connects
>> in line with the power to a drive and delays the feeding
>> of power on startup.
>
>
>    There you are!  OK, where did you get it?  Is it still
>    available?  Does it work with up to 4 IDE hard drives?

It was installed in an old mini computer that had a full height
40 meg hard drive. Oddly enough it wasn't being used. it was just sitting
there. It's only for one drive. I have no idea where to get one now.

It could be built quite simply. Just a delay circuit switching a relay.

>*TimDaniels*


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
0
Barry
9/6/2003 6:32:19 PM
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ss9klvcu99qn3glc1486gegh1rs2na6o2e@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 00:33:51 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Barry OGrady" wrote:
> >> I have a card that is used for that purpose. It connects
> >> in line with the power to a drive and delays the feeding
> >> of power on startup.
> >
> >
> >    There you are!  OK, where did you get it?  Is it still
> >    available?  Does it work with up to 4 IDE hard drives?
>
> It was installed in an old mini computer that had a full height
> 40 meg hard drive. Oddly enough it wasn't being used. it was just sitting
> there. It's only for one drive. I have no idea where to get one now.
>
> It could be built quite simply. Just a delay circuit switching a relay.

Trouble is that by the time all 4 drives have been spun
up, the bios has stopped checking for IDE drives visible.

You could kludge it massively by having that card also just
hit the system reset line again after all drives were powered
up, so the bios goes thru the check for visible drives again,
but thats a massive kludge when it makes a hell of a lot more
sense to just use an adequate power supply so you dont need
to sequence the drives at all.


0
Rod
9/6/2003 7:11:30 PM
"Rod Speed" opined:
> ....it makes a hell of a lot more
> sense to just use an adequate power supply
> so you dont need to sequence the drives at all.


    I agree.  But yimminy, it ain't "elegant".   :-)
    I wonder what the effect is, after all, of a
    voltage sag on start up.  Are any ungood
    "consequences" likely?    


*TimDaniels*



0
Timothy
9/7/2003 12:50:16 AM
Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:G3idnQV76rzrHceiXTWJkA@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote

>> ....it makes a hell of a lot more sense to just use an adequate
>> power supply so you dont need to sequence the drives at all.

>     I agree.  But yimminy, it ain't "elegant".   :-)

Lot more elegant than that collosal kludge that resets the
system after the last drive has been powered up so the
bios can scan for drives present with all drives powered up.

> I wonder what the effect is, after all, of a voltage sag on start up.

That can be bad for the drives.

> Are any ungood "consequences" likely?

Yes, and some drives will just shut down when they see the
12V rail drop below what they consider to be acceptible.

They wont necessarily keep checking that in case the sag is temporary.



0
Rod
9/7/2003 3:43:41 AM
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:16:22 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
>message news:sNKdnXCfnPsKWMiiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>> Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.
>
>> You know, that's interesting.  What does the BIOS do
>> while it's waiting for the Master hard drive to spool up?
>
>It basically interrogates the drive on its details. Since the
>drive is powered up and is itself waiting till the drive spins
>up, it works fine. The bios doesnt wait forever and its very
>unlikely indeed to still be polling for drives at the time that the
>last drive of the 4 has been powered up by a power sequencer.
>
>> I mean, there must be a wait involved since it starts
>> up immediately up application of power while the hard
>> drive takes several seconds to come up to speed.
>
>Yes, but the drive electronics is obviously up and it can
>take a second or so to reply to the request for its details.
>
>> There must be a signal from the hard drive that tells the
>> BIOS that it can proceed with the boot strap loading.
>
>Not really. Initially the bios interrogates the drives on
>their capabilitys, as part of the AUTO config mechanism,
>and once its determined what drives are connected, then
>just reads the MBR off the drive its been told to boot off,
>identifys the partition to boot from and starts doing that etc.
>
>> It would seem that it wouldn't be too hard to extend that wait until
>> all the hard drive spool-ups have completed before proceeding.
>
>Yes, there isnt any technical reason why say you
>couldnt specify in the bios to allow say 10 secs for
>all the drives to have spun up, but few bios have that.
>
>Makes a hell of a lot more sense to just get a better
>power supply instead of farting around like that, and
>thats why few bios have anything like that.
>
>SCSI drives do have that capability, and the
>bios on the SCSI card allow for that capability.
>
>

I've got a funny drive that has a problem starting up sometimes.  It
squawks real ugly, and then in a few seconds you can hear it click and
spin up.  System boots up fine. But it's not the boot drive (one of
three in there).  I set the bios memory test to the long version to
give the drives time to get up and running. 

I was pretty annoyed with the last couple of drives I bought, the
power connector is getting to be a little too cheap and flimsy these
days.  You can feel the frail little bastard flexing when you push in
the powersuppy connector.  Not surprising if they go bad.  Suckers
used to be rock solid.  Cheap bastards ;) 

0
shmoe
9/8/2003 12:57:34 PM
<shmoe@woe.com> wrote in message news:qjuolvobfllkg9vlqdmnmtrgjbqvm606c9@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:16:22 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
> >message news:sNKdnXCfnPsKWMiiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
> >> Rod Speed wrote
> >
> >>> Its unlikely to work, the bios will have given up on the drives.
> >
> >> You know, that's interesting.  What does the BIOS do
> >> while it's waiting for the Master hard drive to spool up?
> >
> >It basically interrogates the drive on its details. Since the
> >drive is powered up and is itself waiting till the drive spins
> >up, it works fine. The bios doesnt wait forever and its very
> >unlikely indeed to still be polling for drives at the time that the
> >last drive of the 4 has been powered up by a power sequencer.
> >
> >> I mean, there must be a wait involved since it starts
> >> up immediately up application of power while the hard
> >> drive takes several seconds to come up to speed.
> >
> >Yes, but the drive electronics is obviously up and it can
> >take a second or so to reply to the request for its details.
> >
> >> There must be a signal from the hard drive that tells the
> >> BIOS that it can proceed with the boot strap loading.
> >
> >Not really. Initially the bios interrogates the drives on
> >their capabilitys, as part of the AUTO config mechanism,
> >and once its determined what drives are connected, then
> >just reads the MBR off the drive its been told to boot off,
> >identifys the partition to boot from and starts doing that etc.
> >
> >> It would seem that it wouldn't be too hard to extend that wait until
> >> all the hard drive spool-ups have completed before proceeding.
> >
> >Yes, there isnt any technical reason why say you
> >couldnt specify in the bios to allow say 10 secs for
> >all the drives to have spun up, but few bios have that.
> >
> >Makes a hell of a lot more sense to just get a better
> >power supply instead of farting around like that, and
> >thats why few bios have anything like that.
> >
> >SCSI drives do have that capability, and the
> >bios on the SCSI card allow for that capability.
> >
> >
>
> I've got a funny drive that has a problem starting up sometimes.  It
> squawks real ugly, and then in a few seconds you can hear it click and
> spin up.  System boots up fine. But it's not the boot drive (one of
> three in there).  I set the bios memory test to the long version to
> give the drives time to get up and running.
>
> I was pretty annoyed with the last couple of drives I bought, the
> power connector is getting to be a little too cheap and flimsy these
> days.  You can feel the frail little bastard flexing when you push in
> the powersuppy connector.  Not surprising if they go bad.  Suckers
> used to be rock solid.  Cheap bastards ;)

Thats more the printed circuit board that the power connector is soldered to.

Yes, some are a significant worry on that score. Plenty arent tho.


0
Rod
9/8/2003 7:10:17 PM
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