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HP Ink in Epson Printer...OK??

Hi All,
   I have a supply of large capacity (350 ml) HP ink carts from a wide
format printer that my company no longer has. The carts are out of date
but have never been opened. I am thinking of building a CFS system for
my new Epson R300 and I wonder if the ink from the HP carts (dye based)
can be used in the Epson printer. Epson inks are dye based also so I
have a feeling this will work. If my idea is correct all I will need to
find is a set of always full chips for my Epson carts and the time and
patience to try building the continuous flow system. 
   Anyone have any thoughts on this???
0
Flyboy
10/10/2004 11:36:08 PM
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"Flyboy" <Flyboy@airport.com> wrote in message 
news:101020041936084245%Flyboy@airport.com...
> Hi All,
>   I have a supply of large capacity (350 ml) HP ink carts from a wide
> format printer that my company no longer has. The carts are out of date
> but have never been opened. I am thinking of building a CFS system for
> my new Epson R300 and I wonder if the ink from the HP carts (dye based)
> can be used in the Epson printer. Epson inks are dye based also so I
> have a feeling this will work. If my idea is correct all I will need to
> find is a set of always full chips for my Epson carts and the time and
> patience to try building the continuous flow system.
>   Anyone have any thoughts on this???

A few things to watch out for:

1.  If the ink is beyond its expiration date it may have become thicker than 
normal due to vapor loss.  This may cause issues with the nozzles clogging.
2.  Some inks use ph to control black to color bleed - the black ink may be 
somewhat acidic, the color ink basic (or vice versa) so that when they print 
black and color close together they maintain crisp edges and do not bleed 
together.  If the inks are not compatible with the ph of the Epson inks you 
will have the reaction occur in the printheads, likely ruining them.
3.  The servicing algorithms in the Epson printer will be tuned to Epson ink. 
It may or may not work with different inks; you may have to do more cleaning 
cycles.
4.  The colors may not match correctly since the color maps in the Epson 
firmware will be tuned to the Epson inks.
5.  HP Black inks are typically pigment based.  This may not be compatible with 
the Epson printhead.

Personally I would probably not try this with a new (still under warranty) 
printer - I would find a cheap old beater to experiment with....

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
MS MVP Printing/Imaging



0
Bob
10/11/2004 4:21:54 AM
In article <10mk2j9704s870d@corp.supernews.com>, Bob Headrick
<bobh@proaxis.com> wrote:

> "Flyboy" <Flyboy@airport.com> wrote in message 
> news:101020041936084245%Flyboy@airport.com...
> > Hi All,
> >   I have a supply of large capacity (350 ml) HP ink carts from a wide
> > format printer that my company no longer has. The carts are out of date
> > but have never been opened. I am thinking of building a CFS system for
> > my new Epson R300 and I wonder if the ink from the HP carts (dye based)
> > can be used in the Epson printer. Epson inks are dye based also so I
> > have a feeling this will work. If my idea is correct all I will need to
> > find is a set of always full chips for my Epson carts and the time and
> > patience to try building the continuous flow system.
> >   Anyone have any thoughts on this???
> 
> A few things to watch out for:
> 
> 1.  If the ink is beyond its expiration date it may have become thicker than 
> normal due to vapor loss.  This may cause issues with the nozzles clogging.
> 2.  Some inks use ph to control black to color bleed - the black ink may be 
> somewhat acidic, the color ink basic (or vice versa) so that when they print 
> black and color close together they maintain crisp edges and do not bleed 
> together.  If the inks are not compatible with the ph of the Epson inks you 
> will have the reaction occur in the printheads, likely ruining them.
> 3.  The servicing algorithms in the Epson printer will be tuned to Epson ink. 
> It may or may not work with different inks; you may have to do more cleaning 
> cycles.
> 4.  The colors may not match correctly since the color maps in the Epson 
> firmware will be tuned to the Epson inks.
> 5.  HP Black inks are typically pigment based.  This may not be compatible
> with 
> the Epson printhead.
> 
> Personally I would probably not try this with a new (still under warranty) 
> printer - I would find a cheap old beater to experiment with....
> 
> Regards,
> Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
> MS MVP Printing/Imaging
> 
> 
> 
Wow!
Thanks for the great information. You have given me a lot to consider.
Just wondering...All the bulk ink I see for sale with commercial, ready
made CFS units, is this ink specially formulated to be compatible with
the printer you are installing the system into? Or are these simply
generic dye based inks?

Thanks again for the info.
0
Flyboy
10/11/2004 8:30:42 PM
As you probably know not all Epson printers use dye inks, some are 
designed for pigmented.  However, many people have successfully run 
pigmented inks through the dye ink printers, and I suppose vice versa.

However, I do believe the R300 is a dye ink printer.

Dye ink formulations are all similar, BUT, they can be different in pH, 
charge, viscosity (thickness), boiling point, evaporation rate, drying 
factors, size of filtering for solids, color dye used, etc.

Keep in mind that most HP printers use a thermal method of projecting 
the ink to the paper.  That means a resistor/heater in the head warms up 
and boils the ink, and the liquid in the ink changes to vapor at the 
head and projects a drop of ink forward.

Epson printers use a piezo-electric actuator which flexes when an 
electrical current is applied, and this causes a droplet of the ink to 
spray out the nozzle.  The ink does not require any heating at all.

So, will the ink work?  It may and it may not. It may just make a mess. 
  If may work, but run or bleed on the paper and it may require 
experimentation with paper and color management to get a similar color 
result to the Epson inks.  It is unlikely to ruin the printer head, 
unless the pH is very different and it causes clots with the Epson ink 
when mixed. You may find it doesn't work very well and you have to go 
back to Epson inks.

Epson inks are alkaline, and mix well with ammoniated window cleaner
which is also quite alkaline.  SOme Lyson inks, made as substitute inks 
for Epson printers, are acidic and cannot be mixed with the Epson inks.

You may wish to test the HP inks to see if they mix with ammoniated 
window cleaner, as a check for pH.

Art
Flyboy wrote:

> Hi All,
>    I have a supply of large capacity (350 ml) HP ink carts from a wide
> format printer that my company no longer has. The carts are out of date
> but have never been opened. I am thinking of building a CFS system for
> my new Epson R300 and I wonder if the ink from the HP carts (dye based)
> can be used in the Epson printer. Epson inks are dye based also so I
> have a feeling this will work. If my idea is correct all I will need to
> find is a set of always full chips for my Epson carts and the time and
> patience to try building the continuous flow system. 
>    Anyone have any thoughts on this???

0
Arthur
10/12/2004 1:55:11 AM
In article <3QGad.11575$qU.9001@clgrps13>, Arthur Entlich
<artistic@telus.net> wrote:

> As you probably know not all Epson printers use dye inks, some are 
> designed for pigmented.  However, many people have successfully run 
> pigmented inks through the dye ink printers, and I suppose vice versa.
> 
> However, I do believe the R300 is a dye ink printer.
> 
> Dye ink formulations are all similar, BUT, they can be different in pH, 
> charge, viscosity (thickness), boiling point, evaporation rate, drying 
> factors, size of filtering for solids, color dye used, etc.
> 
> Keep in mind that most HP printers use a thermal method of projecting 
> the ink to the paper.  That means a resistor/heater in the head warms up 
> and boils the ink, and the liquid in the ink changes to vapor at the 
> head and projects a drop of ink forward.
> 
> Epson printers use a piezo-electric actuator which flexes when an 
> electrical current is applied, and this causes a droplet of the ink to 
> spray out the nozzle.  The ink does not require any heating at all.
> 
> So, will the ink work?  It may and it may not. It may just make a mess. 
>   If may work, but run or bleed on the paper and it may require 
> experimentation with paper and color management to get a similar color 
> result to the Epson inks.  It is unlikely to ruin the printer head, 
> unless the pH is very different and it causes clots with the Epson ink 
> when mixed. You may find it doesn't work very well and you have to go 
> back to Epson inks.
> 
> Epson inks are alkaline, and mix well with ammoniated window cleaner
> which is also quite alkaline.  SOme Lyson inks, made as substitute inks 
> for Epson printers, are acidic and cannot be mixed with the Epson inks.
> 
> You may wish to test the HP inks to see if they mix with ammoniated 
> window cleaner, as a check for pH.
> 
> Art
> Flyboy wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >    I have a supply of large capacity (350 ml) HP ink carts from a wide
> > format printer that my company no longer has. The carts are out of date
> > but have never been opened. I am thinking of building a CFS system for
> > my new Epson R300 and I wonder if the ink from the HP carts (dye based)
> > can be used in the Epson printer. Epson inks are dye based also so I
> > have a feeling this will work. If my idea is correct all I will need to
> > find is a set of always full chips for my Epson carts and the time and
> > patience to try building the continuous flow system. 
> >    Anyone have any thoughts on this???
> 


Wow,
You folks are great. Thanks for all the terrific info. After reading
your replies, I think I'll at least stick with compatible cartridges
for safety's sake. I surely don't want to screw up my new printer and
some of the compatibles that claim to be guaranteed seem the safest way
to go for now.
0
Flyboy
10/12/2004 10:04:13 PM
Reply:

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