f



printer driver driver

Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
used with new versions of windows. 

So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 

If this won't work, how come? 

It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
printers, etc. 

0
micky
8/18/2015 12:06:57 PM
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On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
> used with new versions of windows.
>
> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>
> If this won't work, how come?
>
> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
> printers, etc.
>

Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.  
The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so 
people are wary of them.  They stick their Ad in almost anything, even 
in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.  
People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.

Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.  
Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and your bank 
to cleaners.



--------------010705080306020107040303
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#cbff96">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
used with new versions of windows. 

So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 

If this won't work, how come? 

It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
printers, etc. 

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
      Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for
      new OS.  The only problem is that they have over-advertised
      themselves and so people are wary of them.  They stick their Ad in
      almost anything, even in articles when you focus on a particular
      word, something pops up.  People have said enough is enough and so
      they just ignore them.</font><br>
    <br>
    Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about
    them.  Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and
    your bank to cleaners.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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0
Good
8/18/2015 4:43:46 PM
In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
> printers, etc. 

Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?

Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
0
Stuart
8/18/2015 5:00:55 PM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:43:46
+0100, Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> wrote:

>On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>> used with new versions of windows.
>>
>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>
>> If this won't work, how come?
>>
>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>> printers, etc.
>>
>
>Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.  

That's not what I referred to.  I'm talking about one printer driver,
one total (not printer-speciffic or maker-specific, so that only one is
needed) that connects any printer driver written for say, XP, or 98, to
the newer OS.    The same driver driver for every XP printer driver. for
example. 

>The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so 
>people are wary of them.  

Wariness would not be an issue, any more than it is for imgburn or any
of the other well-known good freeware, that some people have used and
said it was good. . 

>They stick their Ad in almost anything, even 
>in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.  
>People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.

>Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.  

I've never seen what I'm talking about on the web. not even one, let
alone the "some" that you talk about below. 

>Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and your bank 
>to cleaners.
>

0
micky
8/18/2015 7:17:37 PM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
+0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>> printers, etc. 
>
>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>
>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it. 
0
micky
8/18/2015 7:18:24 PM
On 18/08/2015 18:00, Stuart wrote:
> Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to 
> make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc. 

Why not change to Ubuntu.  They keep supporting old and new printers and 
scanners and Wi-fi and all your porn sites are kept secret from Microsoft.
0
Real
8/18/2015 7:55:01 PM
In article <mr02mh$i7h$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
   Real Troll <Real.Troll@trolls.com> wrote:
> On 18/08/2015 18:00, Stuart wrote:
> > Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to 
> > make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc. 

> Why not change to Ubuntu.  They keep supporting old and new printers and
> scanners and Wi-fi and all your porn sites are kept secret from
> Microsoft.

Well, I am currently experimenting with Puppy on an EeePC.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
0
Stuart
8/18/2015 8:19:46 PM
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>> printers, etc. 
>
>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>
>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.


I do not believe that to be true.
My involvement with Microdoft over many years always with printing and inaging  
(never as an employess) has never indicated any such thins.
>-- 
>Stuart Winsor
>
>Tools With A Mission
>sending tools across the world
>http://www.twam.co.uk/

Tony

0
Tony
8/18/2015 8:24:21 PM
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>used with new versions of windows. 
>
>So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 
>
>If this won't work, how come? 
>
>It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>printers, etc.
Good idea.
Please be aware that when the internals of the OS are upgraded it may be 
impossible to remain compatible with older printer drivers without compromising 
the new OS release.
Microsoft does not write the printer drivers anyway, the printer manufacturer 
provides them.
Tony

0
Tony
8/18/2015 8:26:23 PM
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>+0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>> printers, etc. 
>>
>>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>
>>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>
>Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
That is not what happens at all.
Tony

0
Tony
8/18/2015 8:27:03 PM
Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote:
>Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>> printers, etc. 
>>
>>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>
>>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>
>
>I do not believe that to be true.
>My involvement with Microdoft over many years always with printing and inaging 
> 
>(never as an employess) has never indicated any such thins.
>>-- 
>>Stuart Winsor
>>
>>Tools With A Mission
>>sending tools across the world
>>http://www.twam.co.uk/
>
>Tony
Sorry here is it again without the typos.
I do not believe that to be true.
My involvement with Microsoft over many years always with printing and imaging  
(never as an employee) has never indicated any such thing.
Tony

0
Tony
8/18/2015 8:29:06 PM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:26:23
-0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>>printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>used with new versions of windows. 
>>
>>So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 
>>
>>If this won't work, how come? 
>>
>>It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>printers, etc.

>Good idea.
>Please be aware that when the internals of the OS are upgraded it may be 
>impossible to remain compatible with older printer drivers without compromising 
>the new OS release.

Not without compromisiing some of the new print features**, you mean,
right? 

Features most people never use, I'll bet.     The 82 or so letters,
numbers. and basic punctuation marks are the same from one OS to
another, I woudl think, but if they're not, it would be easy enough to
map one OS to another.   Plus another 10 or so printer control
characters.   99.99% of everything I write doesn't use more than that. 

Then there is graphics.   I don't know how that is controlled, but
mapping one output to the other is bound to be possible. 

**And are they still coming out with new print features?   What is left
to have?  Maybe 3-D or holograms or human bladder printing, but I'll
never want to use those. 

>Microsoft does not write the printer drivers anyway, the printer manufacturer 
>provides them.
>Tony

I assume that means that MS releases the format of the output to the
driver, of all the MS programs.   Well, iiuc not the MS programs but the
OS itself determines the output to the printer, including what is
generated by non-MS programs.  And it's uniform, no matter what program
is doing the printing, right?  Otherwise the driver would have to have
spearate sections for different programs that print.  


0
micky
8/18/2015 8:45:38 PM
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:26:23
>-0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote:
>
>>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>>that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>>the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>>>printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>>used with new versions of windows. 
>>>
>>>So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 
>>>
>>>If this won't work, how come? 
>>>
>>>It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>printers, etc.
>
>>Good idea.
>>Please be aware that when the internals of the OS are upgraded it may be 
>>impossible to remain compatible with older printer drivers without 
>>compromising 
>>the new OS release.
>
>Not without compromisiing some of the new print features**, you mean,
>right? 
Probably both. For example the interface had to change with improvements like 
USB2 and 3 upgrades which required new USB drivers which have to interface with 
the OS, it is a very complex environment. There are several examples of 
manufacturers not properly implementing USB3 (they don't always work with USB2 
connections because of enumeration issues).
>
>Features most people never use, I'll bet.     The 82 or so letters,
>numbers. and basic punctuation marks are the same from one OS to
>another, I woudl think, but if they're not, it would be easy enough to
>map one OS to another.   Plus another 10 or so printer control
>characters.   99.99% of everything I write doesn't use more than that. 
>
>Then there is graphics.   I don't know how that is controlled, but
>mapping one output to the other is bound to be possible. 
All has to be compatible. Graphical interfaces are very complex because there 
are different ways of providing graphical printing, depending on the type of 
printer (there are as you know several diffferent technologies) the driver has 
to hndle that which is why the printer manufacturer needs to provide the driver.
>**And are they still coming out with new print features?   What is left
>to have?  Maybe 3-D or holograms or human bladder printing, but I'll
>never want to use those.
Well, 3D is in its infancy, who knows what will happen but once more the OS 
provides the rules for interfacing and the driver needs to meet those rules.
I know that as new OSs are produced there have been changes to the interface, 
but you would expect that as things improve, right?
>
>>Microsoft does not write the printer drivers anyway, the printer manufacturer 
>>provides them.
>>Tony
>
>I assume that means that MS releases the format of the output to the
>driver, of all the MS programs.   Well, iiuc not the MS programs but the
>OS itself determines the output to the printer, including what is
>generated by non-MS programs.  And it's uniform, no matter what program
>is doing the printing, right?  Otherwise the driver would have to have
>spearate sections for different programs that print.
Yes Microsoft publishes a driver interface specification (not sure what they 
call it any more) and the printer manufacturers have to comply or risk issues 
with their customers.
Software suppliers have to comply with the interface also so that they can 
print, in many cases they simply call the OS print routines but in some cases 
they cannot do that and write their own routines which must comply with the 
interface.
Your proposition is probably possible, I suspect it is more complex than it 
appears at first glance and who will do it? It needs to be profitable or open 
source!

Tony

0
Tony
8/18/2015 10:06:45 PM
In message <0r07tatluuvo69j1aaggpignaf58kfhh9u@4ax.com>, micky 
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
[things that let old hardware run under new versions of Windows]
>I've never seen what I'm talking about on the web. not even one, let
>alone the "some" that you talk about below.
[]
I've seen one for scanners; unfortunately it isn't free, and costs about 
the same as a cheap scanner. This is sad, as it's a good product; it's 
just made by a small company (Australian, I think) who aren't big enough 
to be able to offer it at a lower price. (There is a free "evaluation" 
version, but that puts overprinting on the result - it's intended for 
you to see if your scanner works with it.)

IIRR, it's called VueScan.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

She's showing her age a little bit. I always say she doesn't have teething
troubles, she has denture troubles! - Timothy West (on their narrowboat!), RT
2014-March
0
J
8/18/2015 10:26:22 PM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:06:45
-0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:26:23
>>-0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote:
>>
>>>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>>>that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>>>the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>>>>printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>>>used with new versions of windows. 
>>>>
>>>>So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 
>>>>
>>>>If this won't work, how come? 
>>>>
>>>>It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>>Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>>printers, etc.
>>
>>>Good idea.
>>>Please be aware that when the internals of the OS are upgraded it may be 
>>>impossible to remain compatible with older printer drivers without 
>>>compromising 
>>>the new OS release.
>>
>>Not without compromisiing some of the new print features**, you mean,
>>right? 
>Probably both. For example the interface had to change with improvements like 
>USB2 and 3 upgrades which required new USB drivers which have to interface with 
>the OS, it is a very complex environment. There are several examples of 
>manufacturers not properly implementing USB3 (they don't always work with USB2 
>connections because of enumeration issues).
>>
>>Features most people never use, I'll bet.     The 82 or so letters,
>>numbers. and basic punctuation marks are the same from one OS to
>>another, I woudl think, but if they're not, it would be easy enough to
>>map one OS to another.   Plus another 10 or so printer control
>>characters.   99.99% of everything I write doesn't use more than that. 
>>
>>Then there is graphics.   I don't know how that is controlled, but
>>mapping one output to the other is bound to be possible. 
>All has to be compatible. Graphical interfaces are very complex because there 
>are different ways of providing graphical printing, depending on the type of 
>printer (there are as you know several diffferent technologies) the driver has 
>to hndle that which is why the printer manufacturer needs to provide the driver.
>>**And are they still coming out with new print features?   What is left
>>to have?  Maybe 3-D or holograms or human bladder printing, but I'll
>>never want to use those.
>Well, 3D is in its infancy, who knows what will happen but once more the OS 
>provides the rules for interfacing and the driver needs to meet those rules.
>I know that as new OSs are produced there have been changes to the interface, 
>but you would expect that as things improve, right?
>>
>>>Microsoft does not write the printer drivers anyway, the printer manufacturer 
>>>provides them.
>>>Tony
>>
>>I assume that means that MS releases the format of the output to the
>>driver, of all the MS programs.   Well, iiuc not the MS programs but the
>>OS itself determines the output to the printer, including what is
>>generated by non-MS programs.  And it's uniform, no matter what program
>>is doing the printing, right?  Otherwise the driver would have to have
>>spearate sections for different programs that print.
>Yes Microsoft publishes a driver interface specification (not sure what they 
>call it any more) and the printer manufacturers have to comply or risk issues 
>with their customers.
>Software suppliers have to comply with the interface also so that they can 
>print, in many cases they simply call the OS print routines but in some cases 
>they cannot do that and write their own routines which must comply with the 
>interface.
>Your proposition is probably possible, I suspect it is more complex than it 
>appears at first glance and who will do it? It needs to be profitable or open 
>source!

I thought about it in the car today and I don't think it could be
profitable, unless it was so good the printer companies were willing to
pay for a license and so not have to write their own drivers for later
OSe.  They would of course still have to write the first driver.  But
still this idea seems totally out of the question

And I'm not able to do it now.  Not because of time but competence.   

I had another idea about 8 years ago that I was not competent to do, and
I offerred the idea to a group of people who should have wanted it as
much as I did, and everyone who commented said they saw no need for it.
I don't know why they had so little foresight. 

Almost 5 years went by and maybe doing it was in the back of my mind,
but one day I thought I knew how to do it.   I got started and had
difficulties with things that should have been easy, but that didn't
bother me too much. It just meant a little extra time.   And I was
looking into registering a domain and getting webspace to host it, and
then I thought to, again, see if it existed.  I'd looked when I first
had the idea and no one had, but this time it was there.

So I didnt' get the fun of doing or the status of having done it, but I
also don't have to do the maintenance, which might be 40 hours a year
(of actual work, not counting all the inevitable other time spent) , or
pay the cost, which might be $150 a year or more.  All in all I'm very
glad someone else did it. .   Actually, several people I think, with
more contacts than I have, to collect money and share the work.

Maybe in 5 years I'll decide I can do this.   Until then, anyone can
have my idea.  

>Tony

0
micky
8/18/2015 10:32:54 PM
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:06:57 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>used with new versions of windows. 
>
>So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 
>
>If this won't work, how come? 
>
>It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>printers, etc. 


I was having a problem with a expensive HP scanner only XP drivers.

So as the start was using the virtual XP mode under WIN 7, but a pain to
use, you have to select the USB drivers all this time, not a click and
go.

But then some one lists how to install the HP scanner under
compatibility mode with few clicks to make it work, plus you had to get
the driver from the HP site and not use the one on the CD, the CD one
would not let you install it, and they are the same version drivers.
0
Frank
8/18/2015 10:40:21 PM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:26:22
+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <0r07tatluuvo69j1aaggpignaf58kfhh9u@4ax.com>, micky 
><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>[things that let old hardware run under new versions of Windows]
>>I've never seen what I'm talking about on the web. not even one, let
>>alone the "some" that you talk about below.
>[]
>I've seen one for scanners; unfortunately it isn't free, and costs about 
>the same as a cheap scanner. This is sad, as it's a good product; it's 
>just made by a small company (Australian, I think) who aren't big enough 
>to be able to offer it at a lower price. (There is a free "evaluation" 
>version, but that puts overprinting on the result - it's intended for 
>you to see if your scanner works with it.)
>
>IIRR, it's called VueScan.

Yeah, that's it.   https://www.hamrick.com/reg.html

30 or 80 dollars.  American dollars afaict.    For the extra money you
get flim and slide scanning, OCR of text, and unnamed extra features.
I would think some people would have OCR already, even maybe from the
original ... hmm.  This isn't exactly what I had in mind, I think.  It
says it replaces the software.   I don't know i that makes it more
expensive or less. 

But still, they seem to have done it for scanners, which I was also
interested in. .   There are a lot more printers and there's a a lot
more printing being done.  Maybe greater volume would allow a lower
price, although I can see that printing is a lot more complicated than
scanning. 

He says 400,000 people use vuescan. 
0
micky
8/19/2015 12:45:47 AM
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:26:22
>+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <0r07tatluuvo69j1aaggpignaf58kfhh9u@4ax.com>, micky 
>><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>>[things that let old hardware run under new versions of Windows]
>>>I've never seen what I'm talking about on the web. not even one, let
>>>alone the "some" that you talk about below.
>>[]
>>I've seen one for scanners; unfortunately it isn't free, and costs about 
>>the same as a cheap scanner. This is sad, as it's a good product; it's 
>>just made by a small company (Australian, I think) who aren't big enough 
>>to be able to offer it at a lower price. (There is a free "evaluation" 
>>version, but that puts overprinting on the result - it's intended for 
>>you to see if your scanner works with it.)
>>
>>IIRR, it's called VueScan.
>
>Yeah, that's it.   https://www.hamrick.com/reg.html
>
>30 or 80 dollars.  American dollars afaict.    For the extra money you
>get flim and slide scanning, OCR of text, and unnamed extra features.
>I would think some people would have OCR already, even maybe from the
>original ... hmm.  This isn't exactly what I had in mind, I think.  It
>says it replaces the software.   I don't know i that makes it more
>expensive or less. 
>
>But still, they seem to have done it for scanners, which I was also
>interested in. .   There are a lot more printers and there's a a lot
>more printing being done.  Maybe greater volume would allow a lower
>price, although I can see that printing is a lot more complicated than
>scanning. 
>
>He says 400,000 people use vuescan.
There is a "sort" of standard for scanning called TWAIN which if I recall 
correctly stands for Technology Without An Interesting Name!
That probably makes it a little easier for applications like Vue Scan although 
I don't know if they use TWAIN.
There is nothing similar for printers so far as I know.
Tony

0
Tony
8/19/2015 1:11:24 AM
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:

> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:26:22
> +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <0r07tatluuvo69j1aaggpignaf58kfhh9u@4ax.com>, micky 
>><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>>[things that let old hardware run under new versions of Windows]
>>>I've never seen what I'm talking about on the web. not even one, let
>>>alone the "some" that you talk about below.
>>[]
>>I've seen one for scanners; unfortunately it isn't free, and costs about 
>>the same as a cheap scanner. This is sad, as it's a good product; it's 
>>just made by a small company (Australian, I think) who aren't big enough 
>>to be able to offer it at a lower price. (There is a free "evaluation" 
>>version, but that puts overprinting on the result - it's intended for 
>>you to see if your scanner works with it.)

/../

> Yeah, that's it.   https://www.hamrick.com/reg.html
>
> 30 or 80 dollars.  American dollars afaict.    For the extra money you
> get flim and slide scanning, OCR of text, and unnamed extra features.

/../
> But still, they seem to have done it for scanners, which I was also
> interested in. .   There are a lot more printers and there's a a lot
> more printing being done.  Maybe greater volume would allow a lower
> price, although I can see that printing is a lot more complicated than
> scanning. 

Hi Mick,
VueScan is good stuff, really! I can recommend it even though I don't
use it. Those people work hard to reverse-engineer the scanning
protocols and idiosyncracies of individual scanners.

Under linux and MacOSX we have the SANE project for scanning, and the
gutenprint project for printing. Both provide back-ends, that is,
drivers, for the hardware. Look them up online, both are free software,
and continuously improving and keeping up with the latest devices, while
adding older one as well, best of both worlds.

The SANE project to which I contributed in the past mostly for Canon
devices, has most of the capabilities of VueScan, but OCR is not part of
the project, and unfortunately also still lacking infra-red dust removal
capability for those devices that have it physically (the new PIE
backend has it, so in future other back-ends may be able to implement
such capability also).

The gutenprint project, to which I contribute as maintainer of the Canon
backend, offers varied support for a host of printers from many
different manufacturers, mostly inkjets, and dye-sublimation devices.

Since printers use different print languages and data formats, even a
back-end for one manufacturer has tons of variations to accommodate
differences. And then occasionally one needs to create a new back-end
entirely.

Gutenprint does well for standard text and graphics printing, but has no
calibration for photo printing for different media and resolutions, so
it is up to the user to adjust individual ink densities and so on for
best performance. This is an area where the project could improve, but
also impossible without access to the printer by developers, or some
automated way for users to do themselves.

Gutenprint tries to handle all linux and MacOSX versions as far back as
possible, but because of the idiosyncracies of MacOSX, support for 10.2,
then 10.3 and 10.4, and finally 10.5 had to be dropped, and the latest
version requires 10.6 or later.

Regards,
Gernot Hassenpflug
-- 
NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
0
Gernot
8/19/2015 8:32:31 AM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:32:31
+0900, Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>
>> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:26:22
>> +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <0r07tatluuvo69j1aaggpignaf58kfhh9u@4ax.com>, micky 
>>><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>>>[things that let old hardware run under new versions of Windows]
>>>>I've never seen what I'm talking about on the web. not even one, let
>>>>alone the "some" that you talk about below.
>>>[]
>>>I've seen one for scanners; unfortunately it isn't free, and costs about 
>>>the same as a cheap scanner. This is sad, as it's a good product; it's 
>>>just made by a small company (Australian, I think) who aren't big enough 
>>>to be able to offer it at a lower price. (There is a free "evaluation" 
>>>version, but that puts overprinting on the result - it's intended for 
>>>you to see if your scanner works with it.)
>
>/../
>
>> Yeah, that's it.   https://www.hamrick.com/reg.html
>>
>> 30 or 80 dollars.  American dollars afaict.    For the extra money you
>> get flim and slide scanning, OCR of text, and unnamed extra features.
>
>/../
>> But still, they seem to have done it for scanners, which I was also
>> interested in. .   There are a lot more printers and there's a a lot
>> more printing being done.  Maybe greater volume would allow a lower
>> price, although I can see that printing is a lot more complicated than
>> scanning. 
>
>Hi Mick,
>VueScan is good stuff, really! I can recommend it even though I don't
>use it. Those people work hard to reverse-engineer the scanning
>protocols and idiosyncracies of individual scanners.
>
>Under linux and MacOSX we have the SANE project for scanning, and the
>gutenprint project for printing. Both provide back-ends, that is,
>drivers, for the hardware. Look them up online, both are free software,
>and continuously improving and keeping up with the latest devices, while
>adding older one as well, best of both worlds.

Coincidentally -- well not really because I think my excess hardware
from win98 days is what made me think abou this in the first place --
but anyhow, yesterday I listed a flatbed scanner from win98 days on
Freecycle, and within an hour I got someone who said she's interested. 

The "ad" said that it only works with a parallel port but I said some
(PCI) are as low as $5.25 and I offered to help install it, because this
scanner is new in the box and I really don't want to see it get scrapped
without ever being used. 

Anyhow, though this one only has a parallel port, it does have drivers
for up to win7.  Interesting, huh?   

I willl tell her or whoever takes it about the software above, for when
they upgrade beyond 7. 

>
>The SANE project to which I contributed in the past mostly for Canon
>devices, has most of the capabilities of VueScan, but OCR is not part of
>the project,

Can't one use separate OCR software?  

(I've always wanted to OCR something but in fact I never have a need for
it.)

> and unfortunately also still lacking infra-red dust removal
>capability for those devices that have it physically (the new PIE
>backend has it, so in future other back-ends may be able to implement
>such capability also).
>
>The gutenprint project, to which I contribute as maintainer of the Canon
>backend, offers varied support for a host of printers from many
>different manufacturers, mostly inkjets, and dye-sublimation devices.
>
>Since printers use different print languages and data formats, even a
>back-end for one manufacturer has tons of variations to accommodate
>differences. And then occasionally one needs to create a new back-end
>entirely.
>
>Gutenprint does well for standard text and graphics printing, but has no
>calibration for photo printing for different media and resolutions, so
>it is up to the user to adjust individual ink densities and so on for
>best performance. This is an area where the project could improve, but
>also impossible without access to the printer by developers, or some
>automated way for users to do themselves.
>
>Gutenprint tries to handle all linux and MacOSX versions as far back as
>possible, but because of the idiosyncracies of MacOSX, support for 10.2,
>then 10.3 and 10.4, and finally 10.5 had to be dropped, and the latest
>version requires 10.6 or later.

Well I hope the old versions are still available, and even my friend has
upgraded to 10.6, for other reasons. 
>
>Regards,
>Gernot Hassenpflug

0
micky
8/19/2015 1:17:16 PM
On 18/08/2015 17:43, Good Guy wrote:
> On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>> used with new versions of windows.
>>
>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>
>> If this won't work, how come?
>>
>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>> printers, etc.
>>
>
> Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.
> The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so
> people are wary of them.  They stick their Ad in almost anything, even
> in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.
> People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.
>
> Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.
> Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and your bank
> to cleaners.
>
>
Interesting thought, but I'm still using a printer that I bought in  the 
middle of Windows 98. Works fine in 8.1, and even behaved under 10, 
though I upgraded back to 8.1 pretty quickly (another story). It's HP 
Deskjet3845
0
Peter
8/19/2015 2:08:06 PM
In message <yol37zfisps.fsf@asahi-net.or.jp>, Gernot Hassenpflug 
<gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> writes:
[]
>VueScan is good stuff, really! I can recommend it even though I don't
>use it. Those people work hard to reverse-engineer the scanning
>protocols and idiosyncracies of individual scanners.
>
>Under linux and MacOSX we have the SANE project for scanning, and the
>gutenprint project for printing. Both provide back-ends, that is,
>drivers, for the hardware. Look them up online, both are free software,
>and continuously improving and keeping up with the latest devices, while
>adding older one as well, best of both worlds.
[]
>Regards,
>Gernot Hassenpflug

So what chance (minimal I suspect since Windows and Linux folk on the 
whole aren't too fond of each other) of someone writing a TWAIN-to-SANE, 
er, driver (translator, whatever), and a Windows driver for *the* 
gutenprint "printer" (not unlike the PDF "printer"s)?
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is the civilising influence in this country ... I think it is the most
important institution in this country. - John Humphrys, Radio Times
7-13/06/2003
0
J
8/19/2015 9:01:34 PM
In message <v209ta9to33rp7nripjgd6bep4u7v3lbl7@4ax.com>, micky 
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:32:31
>+0900, Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:
[]
>>The SANE project to which I contributed in the past mostly for Canon
>>devices, has most of the capabilities of VueScan, but OCR is not part of
>>the project,
>
>Can't one use separate OCR software?
[]
Yes; I get depressed (or used to) at how many people think OCR is a 
function of the scanner. It isn't. Most OCR software (all that I've ever 
seen) can take image files as input (albeit sometimes limited to only 
the common-with-scanner formats, such as TIFF and PDF), as well as 
directly "driving" a scanner. Certainly Omnipage, Abbyy (sp?), and 
PagePlus (I think) can.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is the civilising influence in this country ... I think it is the most
important institution in this country. - John Humphrys, Radio Times
7-13/06/2003
0
J
8/19/2015 9:06:15 PM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:06:15
+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <v209ta9to33rp7nripjgd6bep4u7v3lbl7@4ax.com>, micky 
><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:32:31
>>+0900, Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:
>[]
>>>The SANE project to which I contributed in the past mostly for Canon
>>>devices, has most of the capabilities of VueScan, but OCR is not part of
>>>the project,
>>
>>Can't one use separate OCR software?
>[]
>Yes; I get depressed (or used to) at how many people think OCR is a 

I'm glad you said "used to".  Untreated OCR depression can be as great a
problem as OCD depression, or OCW**. 

>function of the scanner. It isn't. Most OCR software (all that I've ever 
>seen) can take image files as input (albeit sometimes limited to only 
>the common-with-scanner formats, such as TIFF and PDF), as well as 
>directly "driving" a scanner. Certainly Omnipage, Abbyy (sp?), and 
>PagePlus (I think) can.

**That's what Elmer Fudd has.  Optical Character Wecognition. 
0
micky
8/19/2015 9:42:30 PM
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:

> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:32:31
> +0900, Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:
>
>>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>>
>>> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:26:22
>>> +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <0r07tatluuvo69j1aaggpignaf58kfhh9u@4ax.com>, micky 
>>>><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>>>>[things that let old hardware run under new versions of Windows]

/../

>>The SANE project to which I contributed in the past mostly for Canon
>>devices, has most of the capabilities of VueScan, but OCR is not part of
>>the project,
>
> Can't one use separate OCR software?  
>
> (I've always wanted to OCR something but in fact I never have a need for
> it.)

Of course, it is entirely a non-issue, I merely added that statement to
highlight a difference to (apparently) VueScan.

/../

>>Gutenprint tries to handle all linux and MacOSX versions as far back as
>>possible, but because of the idiosyncracies of MacOSX, support for 10.2,
>>then 10.3 and 10.4, and finally 10.5 had to be dropped, and the latest
>>version requires 10.6 or later.
>
> Well I hope the old versions are still available, and even my friend has
> upgraded to 10.6, for other reasons. 

Sure, older versions (obviously with less printer support) of gutenprint
are available (and always will be, as long as the software continues to
have a place on the web). The trouble comes when people want to use a
new printer with their old MacOSX, this is simply not possible (a
backport for specific printers is possible in some cases, but ovbiously
not feasible to maintain).
-- 
NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
0
Gernot
8/20/2015 2:42:38 AM
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes:

> In message <yol37zfisps.fsf@asahi-net.or.jp>, Gernot Hassenpflug
> <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> writes:
> []
>>VueScan is good stuff, really! I can recommend it even though I don't
>>use it. Those people work hard to reverse-engineer the scanning
>>protocols and idiosyncracies of individual scanners.
>>
>>Under linux and MacOSX we have the SANE project for scanning, and the
>>gutenprint project for printing. Both provide back-ends, that is,
>>drivers, for the hardware. Look them up online, both are free software,
>>and continuously improving and keeping up with the latest devices, while
>>adding older one as well, best of both worlds.
> []
>>Regards,
>>Gernot Hassenpflug
>
> So what chance (minimal I suspect since Windows and Linux folk on the
> whole aren't too fond of each other) of someone writing a
> TWAIN-to-SANE, er, driver (translator, whatever), and a Windows driver
> for *the* gutenprint "printer" (not unlike the PDF "printer"s)?

There is a SANE for Windows actually, and conversion, etc. But it is
not part of the SANE project, it is done independently. Searching "SANE
for Windows" brings up a few interesting links I had not seen before
(since I do not search this regularly, thanks for the opportunity,
hehe):
http://sanetwain.ozuzo.net/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sanewinds/
To my surprise, and I had forgotten this, one can build SANE to run on Windows:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9278263/is-it-possible-to-use-the-sane-backend-on-windows-platforms
http://sane.10972.n7.nabble.com/sane-runs-in-windows-without-cygwin-td13328.html

Note, since SANE is a network-capable protocol, you can have a linux box
to which the scanners are connected, and run the front-end like Xsane on
your local Windows machine:
http://www.xsane.org/xsane-win32.html

For gutenprint, possibly you could build it in a Cygwin or MinGW
environment. There are plenty of projects trying to present a system,
such as winGP:
https://code.google.com/p/wingp/downloads/list
How-To use WinGP:
http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/gutenprint-the-poor-mans-rip.9549/

Gutenprint for Windows:
http://webblog.ru/Dickobraz

Also "Wutenprint":
http://wutenprint.blogspot.jp/

Another gutenprint for Windows:
https://gimper.net/search/142896/?q=gutenprint&t=resource_update&o=relevance&c[rescat]=1

-- 
NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
0
Gernot
8/20/2015 3:01:47 AM
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:08:06
+0100, Peter <peter4321@mailinator.com> wrote:

>On 18/08/2015 17:43, Good Guy wrote:
>> On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>>> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>> used with new versions of windows.
>>>
>>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>>
>>> If this won't work, how come?
>>>
>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>> printers, etc.
>>>
>>
>> Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.
>> The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so
>> people are wary of them.  They stick their Ad in almost anything, even
>> in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.
>> People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.
>>
>> Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.
>> Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and your bank
>> to cleaners.
>>
>>
>Interesting thought, but I'm still using a printer that I bought in  the 
>middle of Windows 98. Works fine in 8.1, and even behaved under 10, 
>though I upgraded back to 8.1 pretty quickly (another story). It's HP 
>Deskjet3845

You still have a parallel port, or was there USB already then? 
0
micky
8/21/2015 12:40:49 AM
On 08/18/2015 02:06 PM, micky wrote:
> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
> used with new versions of windows. 
> 
> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific, 
> 
> If this won't work, how come? 
> 
> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
> printers, etc. 
> 
From what I recall There was an `Adobe Post Script printer driver' that you 
could install on any windows box for printing. It would output Postscript 
that you could print from some application, or forward to CUPS or 
somesuch other ipp printer/server. Don't those things work for recent windowses? 




0
Johann
9/4/2015 8:04:47 PM
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:27:03 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>>+0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>> printers, etc. 
>>>
>>>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>>
>>>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>>
>>Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
>That is not what happens at all.
>Tony

When I wrote my line above 5 months ago, I was sure it sounded
sarcastic, but reading it now, it didn't even sound sarcastic to me.
But that's how I meant it.  Sorry I was misleading.
0
Micky
1/8/2016 11:13:23 AM
Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:27:03 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>dot nz> wrote:
>
>>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>>>+0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>>> printers, etc. 
>>>>
>>>>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>>>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>>>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>>>
>>>>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>>>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>>>
>>>Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
>>That is not what happens at all.
>>Tony
>
>When I wrote my line above 5 months ago, I was sure it sounded
>sarcastic, but reading it now, it didn't even sound sarcastic to me.
>But that's how I meant it.  Sorry I was misleading.
Fair enough.
Microsoft do not write the drivers for printers. The printer manufacturer has 
to do that.
So there is customer and shareholder pressure to develop new operating systems 
and the printer manufacturers have to decide whether they develop new printer 
drivers for it.

Tony

0
Tony
1/9/2016 4:10:45 AM
Tony wrote:
> Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:
>> Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> writes:
>>
>>> Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:27:03 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>>>> dot nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>>>>>> +0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>>>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>>>>>> printers, etc. 
>>>>>>> Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>>>>>> don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>>>>>> which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>>>>>> make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>>>>>> Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
>>>>> That is not what happens at all.
>>>>> Tony
>>>> When I wrote my line above 5 months ago, I was sure it sounded
>>>> sarcastic, but reading it now, it didn't even sound sarcastic to me.
>>>> But that's how I meant it.  Sorry I was misleading.
>>> Fair enough.
>>> Microsoft do not write the drivers for printers. The printer manufacturer 
>>> has 
>>> to do that.
>>> So there is customer and shareholder pressure to develop new operating 
>>> systems 
>>> and the printer manufacturers have to decide whether they develop new 
>>> printer 
>>> drivers for it.
>> Actually, as far as I can see in Japan, the printer manufacturers
>> outsource the driver writing to a 3rd-party, they do not do it
>> themselves.
>> Hence there is yet another level of contracting and negotiations,
>> cost-benefit analysis and so on involved.
>> -- 
>> NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
> Ah, I am sure you are right. And it probably makes it more difficult to justify 
> new drivers.
> I was making the point that it is the responsibility of the printer 
> manufacturer and not the responsibility of the OS developer.
> I have lost count of the number of times I have heard people blame Microsoft 
> for poorly written or non-existent hardware drivers.
> But your point is well made.
> Tony

But there are attempts at "Universal Printer Drivers".

Microsoft makes unidrv, HP has something (which could
actually be from Microsoft for all I know). This
supports PCL5/PCL6/PostScript.

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/solutions/business-solutions/printingsolutions/UPD.html

I'm interested in drivers like that, as a means to
"Print to file" in PostScript format. Then, pass the
PostScript to an old copy of Acrobat Distiller. Giving
me a Print To PDF capability. One benefit of my workflow
that way, is I can make huge pages if I want. Like make
a single page 108" inches in length. This sometimes
helps with bugs in Firefox, where "only page 1 prints"
and the other pages are invisible. If you make the
page size 108", you can then manage to capture the
entire web page in one image. It's absolutely useless
for printing when made that way, but provides nice
archival storage for viewing on screen later.

This works, until you hit the coordinate space limits
of PostScript/PDF, whatever they are.

This all started, when I had a 36" wide roll-fed inkjet at work.
The driver for that, made nice big pages in PostScript,
as the device had a PostScript interpreter in it. You
could send PCL or PostScript to it. And later, I continued
to use that print driver for home usage, making my "PDF
printer" based on the driver concept. When drivers for
that printer were no longer available, I switched
over to a Universal Printer Driver that has PostScript
support (the HP one). I think I may have used that in
a Windows 7 install. I don't know if there is a solution
for a later OS or not.

    Paul
0
Paul
1/12/2016 1:01:01 AM
Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:
>Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> writes:
>
>> Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:27:03 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>>>dot nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>>>>>+0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>>>>> printers, etc. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>>>>>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>>>>>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>>>>>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
>>>>That is not what happens at all.
>>>>Tony
>>>
>>>When I wrote my line above 5 months ago, I was sure it sounded
>>>sarcastic, but reading it now, it didn't even sound sarcastic to me.
>>>But that's how I meant it.  Sorry I was misleading.
>> Fair enough.
>> Microsoft do not write the drivers for printers. The printer manufacturer 
>>has 
>> to do that.
>> So there is customer and shareholder pressure to develop new operating 
>>systems 
>> and the printer manufacturers have to decide whether they develop new 
>>printer 
>> drivers for it.
>
>Actually, as far as I can see in Japan, the printer manufacturers
>outsource the driver writing to a 3rd-party, they do not do it
>themselves.
>Hence there is yet another level of contracting and negotiations,
>cost-benefit analysis and so on involved.
>-- 
>NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
Ah, I am sure you are right. And it probably makes it more difficult to justify 
new drivers.
I was making the point that it is the responsibility of the printer 
manufacturer and not the responsibility of the OS developer.
I have lost count of the number of times I have heard people blame Microsoft 
for poorly written or non-existent hardware drivers.
But your point is well made.
Tony

0
Tony
1/12/2016 1:01:01 AM
Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> writes:

> Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:27:03 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>>dot nz> wrote:
>>
>>>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>>>>+0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>>>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>>>> printers, etc. 
>>>>>
>>>>>Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer drivers
>>>>>don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to the OS
>>>>>which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>>>>make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
>>>That is not what happens at all.
>>>Tony
>>
>>When I wrote my line above 5 months ago, I was sure it sounded
>>sarcastic, but reading it now, it didn't even sound sarcastic to me.
>>But that's how I meant it.  Sorry I was misleading.
> Fair enough.
> Microsoft do not write the drivers for printers. The printer manufacturer has 
> to do that.
> So there is customer and shareholder pressure to develop new operating systems 
> and the printer manufacturers have to decide whether they develop new printer 
> drivers for it.

Actually, as far as I can see in Japan, the printer manufacturers
outsource the driver writing to a 3rd-party, they do not do it
themselves.
Hence there is yet another level of contracting and negotiations,
cost-benefit analysis and so on involved.
-- 
NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
0
Gernot
1/12/2016 2:22:31 AM
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 20:31:35 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:



>Ah, I am sure you are right. And it probably makes it more difficult to justify 
>new drivers.
>I was making the point that it is the responsibility of the printer 
>manufacturer and not the responsibility of the OS developer.
>I have lost count of the number of times I have heard people blame Microsoft 
>for poorly written or non-existent hardware drivers.
>But your point is well made.
>Tony

IIRC, one version of Windows has Microsoft providing drivers.  W98? or
XP?  There was some controversy about it at the time.  
0
Ed
1/12/2016 11:05:50 AM
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:19:46 +0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <mr02mh$i7h$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
>    Real Troll <Real.Troll@trolls.com> wrote:
>> On 18/08/2015 18:00, Stuart wrote:
>> > Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>> > make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>
>> Why not change to Ubuntu.  They keep supporting old and new printers and
>> scanners and Wi-fi and all your porn sites are kept secret from
>> Microsoft.
>
> Well, I am currently experimenting with Puppy on an EeePC.
>
I guess you have an USB printer then.

TinyCore is more modular.

-- 
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
0
Kerr
1/12/2016 12:19:19 PM
Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>Tony wrote:
>> Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot.hassenpflug@asahinet.com> wrote:
>>> Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> writes:
>>>
>>>> Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:27:03 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>>>>> dot nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:00:55
>>>>>>> +0100, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <1fj5tatq039425u3ngn5idqu3l665nf49c@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>>   micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>>>>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>>>>>>> printers, etc. 
>>>>>>>> Beats me why Microsoft have to change things so that older printer 
>>>>>>>>drivers
>>>>>>>> don't work any way. After all, a program sends the print request to 
>>>>>>>>the OS
>>>>>>>> which then sends the information to the driver, why change stuff?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, actually Microsoft are in cahoots with hardware manufacturers to
>>>>>>>> make sure you have to keep buying new printers etc.
>>>>>>> Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.  I wonder what MS gets out of it.
>>>>>> That is not what happens at all.
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>> When I wrote my line above 5 months ago, I was sure it sounded
>>>>> sarcastic, but reading it now, it didn't even sound sarcastic to me.
>>>>> But that's how I meant it.  Sorry I was misleading.
>>>> Fair enough.
>>>> Microsoft do not write the drivers for printers. The printer manufacturer 
>>>> has 
>>>> to do that.
>>>> So there is customer and shareholder pressure to develop new operating 
>>>> systems 
>>>> and the printer manufacturers have to decide whether they develop new 
>>>> printer 
>>>> drivers for it.
>>> Actually, as far as I can see in Japan, the printer manufacturers
>>> outsource the driver writing to a 3rd-party, they do not do it
>>> themselves.
>>> Hence there is yet another level of contracting and negotiations,
>>> cost-benefit analysis and so on involved.
>>> -- 
>>> NNTP on Emacs 24.3 from Windows 7
>> Ah, I am sure you are right. And it probably makes it more difficult to 
>>justify 
>> new drivers.
>> I was making the point that it is the responsibility of the printer 
>> manufacturer and not the responsibility of the OS developer.
>> I have lost count of the number of times I have heard people blame Microsoft 
>> for poorly written or non-existent hardware drivers.
>> But your point is well made.
>> Tony
>
>But there are attempts at "Universal Printer Drivers".
>
>Microsoft makes unidrv, HP has something (which could
>actually be from Microsoft for all I know). This
>supports PCL5/PCL6/PostScript.
>
>http://www8.hp.com/us/en/solutions/business-solutions/printingsolutions/UPD.html
>
>I'm interested in drivers like that, as a means to
>"Print to file" in PostScript format. Then, pass the
>PostScript to an old copy of Acrobat Distiller. Giving
>me a Print To PDF capability. One benefit of my workflow
>that way, is I can make huge pages if I want. Like make
>a single page 108" inches in length. This sometimes
>helps with bugs in Firefox, where "only page 1 prints"
>and the other pages are invisible. If you make the
>page size 108", you can then manage to capture the
>entire web page in one image. It's absolutely useless
>for printing when made that way, but provides nice
>archival storage for viewing on screen later.
>
>This works, until you hit the coordinate space limits
>of PostScript/PDF, whatever they are.
>
>This all started, when I had a 36" wide roll-fed inkjet at work.
>The driver for that, made nice big pages in PostScript,
>as the device had a PostScript interpreter in it. You
>could send PCL or PostScript to it. And later, I continued
>to use that print driver for home usage, making my "PDF
>printer" based on the driver concept. When drivers for
>that printer were no longer available, I switched
>over to a Universal Printer Driver that has PostScript
>support (the HP one). I think I may have used that in
>a Windows 7 install. I don't know if there is a solution
>for a later OS or not.
>
>    Paul
It is a while since I worked with universal drivers but my recollection is that 
the Microsoft one is a single common package that has to have mini drivers 
interfaced to it specific to each printer,. The HP driver did indeed handle a 
wide range of HP printers.
Tony

0
Tony
1/12/2016 8:02:46 PM
micky wrote:
> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
> used with new versions of windows.
>
> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>
> If this won't work, how come?
>
> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
> printers, etc.
>
   Naturally! Have you not heard about the new "economy" where you toss 
anything and everything older than 2 years old?
   Petty soon, you must toss anything that gets dusty.
   Why the hell else are we way over 20 trillion in debt.

0
Robert
8/18/2016 1:01:01 AM
Good Guy wrote:
> On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>> used with new versions of windows.
>>
>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>
>> If this won't work, how come?
>>
>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>> printers, etc.
>>
>
> Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.
> The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so
> people are wary of them.  They stick their Ad in almost anything, even
> in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.
> People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.
>
> Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.
> Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and your bank
> to cleaners.
>
>
   Well,there is NOTHING for the Panasonic KX-P1093 (including NO manuals).

0
Robert
8/18/2016 1:01:01 AM
Robert Baer wrote:
> Good Guy wrote:
>> On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>>> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>> used with new versions of windows.
>>>
>>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>>
>>> If this won't work, how come?
>>>
>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>> printers, etc.
>>>
>>
>> Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.
>> The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so
>> people are wary of them.  They stick their Ad in almost anything, even
>> in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.
>> People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.
>>
>> Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.
>> Some are good and some are pure evil.  they will take you and your bank
>> to cleaners.
>>
>>
>   Well,there is NOTHING for the Panasonic KX-P1093 (including NO manuals).
> 

Don't forget, that for old kit, there are *two* classes of drivers.

1) The manufacturer driver. They get tired of making drivers for
    new OSes, and after five years, stop doing that.

2) Microsoft sometimes cooks up "universal" drivers for a class of
    device. These may work out-of-the-box. Or, the driver package is
    a kit, requiring a minimal amount of work by the manufacturer.
    Universal drivers are possible, when there is a semblance of
    an industry standard mode of operation.

It is the Type (2) drivers that you should be looking for.

I'm not an expert on Dot Matrix, but I'm willing to bet
there is some crusty old solution for them which is not (1).

http://geos-infobase.de/ND_DOCS/273IBM.HTM

    Panasonic KX-P1093 (IBM Mode) {x1}

So for some reason, they recommend IBM Mode for yours.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/177512

   "Dot-Matrix Guidelines

    Almost all dot-matrix printers emulate an Epson or an IBM printer.
    Exceptions to this rule include Toshiba, Texas Instruments,
    some Okidata and C.Itoh printers. All Panasonic, Star Micronics,
    and Citizen dot-matrix printers default to an Epson emulation
    mode but can also emulate an IBM printer if you change the
    printer settings.

    In general, try an Epson printer driver first, and then try
    an IBM driver if necessary.

    Determine if the printer is a 9-pin or a 24-pin printer.
    If a driver is installed, you can determine this by viewing
    the available graphics resolutions. A 9-pin printer uses
    resolution settings that are increments of 120 x 72.
    A 24-pin printer uses resolution settings that are increments
    of 120 x 180 or 180 x 180. Then, determine if the printer is
    capable of printing in color and if the printer uses a wide
    carriage (can take paper that is up to 14 7/8 inches wide).

    Use the following table to determine which driver to use.
   "

Naturally, there isn't a hope of getting such info
for a modern OS. But, try the terminology in a search
and see what pops up.

For example, every user is expected to be a rocket scientist.
Here, a user launched his own rocket, with only a few
burn marks from the experience.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/what-dot-matrix-or-impact-printers-will-work-with/5ecd7423-fa7c-4922-a0f7-f6b70d631635?auth=1

    Paul
0
Paul
8/18/2016 9:08:03 AM
Paul wrote:
> Robert Baer wrote:
>> Good Guy wrote:
>>> On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>>>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for
>>>> old
>>>> printers. So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>>> used with new versions of windows.
>>>>
>>>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>>>
>>>> If this won't work, how come?
>>>>
>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>> printers, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.
>>> The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so
>>> people are wary of them. They stick their Ad in almost anything, even
>>> in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.
>>> People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.
>>>
>>> Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.
>>> Some are good and some are pure evil. they will take you and your bank
>>> to cleaners.
>>>
>>>
>> Well,there is NOTHING for the Panasonic KX-P1093 (including NO manuals).
>>
>
> Don't forget, that for old kit, there are *two* classes of drivers.
>
> 1) The manufacturer driver. They get tired of making drivers for
> new OSes, and after five years, stop doing that.
>
> 2) Microsoft sometimes cooks up "universal" drivers for a class of
> device. These may work out-of-the-box. Or, the driver package is
> a kit, requiring a minimal amount of work by the manufacturer.
> Universal drivers are possible, when there is a semblance of
> an industry standard mode of operation.
>
> It is the Type (2) drivers that you should be looking for.
* So far,drivers for the Epson FX-100, FX-80, FX-80+ and the LX-80 
all(more or less) work. 9-pin Epson generic driver works.
   Problem is graphics is all low resolution.

>
> I'm not an expert on Dot Matrix, but I'm willing to bet
> there is some crusty old solution for them which is not (1).
>
> http://geos-infobase.de/ND_DOCS/273IBM.HTM
*  Check; found that early in the game; used their list that had the 
P1093 included and tried drivers listed (those available); about half 
worked.
   Note "NewDeal print drivers will not work with other Windows, OS/2, 
or DOS programs."; What "other" windows programs?
   AND, "You must have NewDeal software to use NewDeal print drivers."
   Well, they DO NOT say this mythical software will run in (any version 
you care to list) Windows.
   Lastly,they DO NOT SAY where to get it...and how much...

>
> Panasonic KX-P1093 (IBM Mode) {x1}
>
> So for some reason, they recommend IBM Mode for yours.
* Saw that. Where the heck are their "drivers",etc?
   All useless blabber as fa as i can tell.

>
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/177512
* USEFUL chart and info
>
> "Dot-Matrix Guidelines
>
> Almost all dot-matrix printers emulate an Epson or an IBM printer.
> Exceptions to this rule include Toshiba, Texas Instruments,
> some Okidata and C.Itoh printers. All Panasonic, Star Micronics,
> and Citizen dot-matrix printers default to an Epson emulation
> mode but can also emulate an IBM printer if you change the
> printer settings.
>
> In general, try an Epson printer driver first, and then try
> an IBM driver if necessary.
* Good point; will fiddle with IBM drivers;maybe i can get hi-res (AKA 
readable) graphics.

>
> Determine if the printer is a 9-pin or a 24-pin printer.
> If a driver is installed, you can determine this by viewing
> the available graphics resolutions. A 9-pin printer uses
> resolution settings that are increments of 120 x 72.
* Thanks; my fiddling tells me it is 9-pin.

> A 24-pin printer uses resolution settings that are increments
> of 120 x 180 or 180 x 180. Then, determine if the printer is
> capable of printing in color and if the printer uses a wide
> carriage (can take paper that is up to 14 7/8 inches wide).
>
> Use the following table to determine which driver to use.
> "
>
> Naturally, there isn't a hope of getting such info
> for a modern OS. But, try the terminology in a search
> and see what pops up.
>
> For example, every user is expected to be a rocket scientist.
> Here, a user launched his own rocket, with only a few
> burn marks from the experience.
>
> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/what-dot-matrix-or-impact-printers-will-work-with/5ecd7423-fa7c-4922-a0f7-f6b70d631635?auth=1
   Methinks he should have upgraded by returning to what he had for OS 
(XP?) and the older Quickbooks.
   Also bitch like crazy to QB about their (in effect) useless software).
   Maybe even take them to small claims court: time wasted, equipment 
rendered truly useless, money lost, etc.


>
>
> Paul

0
Robert
8/19/2016 1:01:01 AM
Paul wrote:
> Robert Baer wrote:
>> Good Guy wrote:
>>> On 18/08/2015 13:06, micky wrote:
>>>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>>>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>>>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for
>>>> old
>>>> printers. So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>>>> used with new versions of windows.
>>>>
>>>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>>>
>>>> If this won't work, how come?
>>>>
>>>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>>>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>>>> printers, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course there are people writing drivers for old printers for new OS.
>>> The only problem is that they have over-advertised themselves and so
>>> people are wary of them. They stick their Ad in almost anything, even
>>> in articles when you focus on a particular word, something pops up.
>>> People have said enough is enough and so they just ignore them.
>>>
>>> Do a search and you will find lots of them but be careful about them.
>>> Some are good and some are pure evil. they will take you and your bank
>>> to cleaners.
>>>
>>>
>> Well,there is NOTHING for the Panasonic KX-P1093 (including NO manuals).
>>
>
> Don't forget, that for old kit, there are *two* classes of drivers.
>
> 1) The manufacturer driver. They get tired of making drivers for
> new OSes, and after five years, stop doing that.
>
> 2) Microsoft sometimes cooks up "universal" drivers for a class of
> device. These may work out-of-the-box. Or, the driver package is
> a kit, requiring a minimal amount of work by the manufacturer.
> Universal drivers are possible, when there is a semblance of
> an industry standard mode of operation.
>
> It is the Type (2) drivers that you should be looking for.
>
> I'm not an expert on Dot Matrix, but I'm willing to bet
> there is some crusty old solution for them which is not (1).
>
> http://geos-infobase.de/ND_DOCS/273IBM.HTM
>
> Panasonic KX-P1093 (IBM Mode) {x1}
>
> So for some reason, they recommend IBM Mode for yours.
>
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/177512
>
> "Dot-Matrix Guidelines
>
> Almost all dot-matrix printers emulate an Epson or an IBM printer.
> Exceptions to this rule include Toshiba, Texas Instruments,
> some Okidata and C.Itoh printers. All Panasonic, Star Micronics,
> and Citizen dot-matrix printers default to an Epson emulation
> mode but can also emulate an IBM printer if you change the
> printer settings.
>
> In general, try an Epson printer driver first, and then try
> an IBM driver if necessary.
>
> Determine if the printer is a 9-pin or a 24-pin printer.
> If a driver is installed, you can determine this by viewing
> the available graphics resolutions. A 9-pin printer uses
> resolution settings that are increments of 120 x 72.
> A 24-pin printer uses resolution settings that are increments
> of 120 x 180 or 180 x 180. Then, determine if the printer is
> capable of printing in color and if the printer uses a wide
> carriage (can take paper that is up to 14 7/8 inches wide).
>
> Use the following table to determine which driver to use.
> "
>
> Naturally, there isn't a hope of getting such info
> for a modern OS. But, try the terminology in a search
> and see what pops up.
>
> For example, every user is expected to be a rocket scientist.
> Here, a user launched his own rocket, with only a few
> burn marks from the experience.
>
> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/what-dot-matrix-or-impact-printers-will-work-with/5ecd7423-fa7c-4922-a0f7-f6b70d631635?auth=1
>
>
> Paul
   Reference:  the Epson FX-80 driver for the Panasonic KX-P1093.

   The KB177512 article was the most useful, but the FX-850 seems to be 
for a 24-pin printer and drives the KX-P1093 absolutely NUTS.
   The IBM Generic Graphics driver produces graphics with worse 
resolution (read: crappy); there is no "wide" version available.
   The IBM Proprinter and Proprinter XL drivers work; the Epson FX-80 is 
just as good.
   The Epson FX-1050 driver looks the same, ditto for the Epson 9-pin 
driver.
   BUT..
   Hold onto your hat!
   Using the Epson JX-80 (color) driver gives excellent results!

   Much thanks!
   ((now to see if that driver exists in Win7))

0
Robert
8/19/2016 1:01:01 AM
Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> writes:

> micky wrote:
>> Seems to me, someone should be able to write a printer driver driver,
>> that will take the output from XP, 7, 8, or 10 and convert it to what
>> the output from win98 or XP would look like, to be used as input for old
>> printers.   So that old printers -- and other accessories -- could be
>> used with new versions of windows.
>>
>> So it woudln't have to be printer-specific,
>>
>> If this won't work, how come?
>>
>> It annoys me that not only do they want us to buy a new version of
>> Windows, which often means a new computer, but then we have to buy new
>> printers, etc.
>>
>   Naturally! Have you not heard about the new "economy" where you toss
> anything and everything older than 2 years old?

Yeah, sad but true.

>   Petty soon, you must toss anything that gets dusty.

A lot of women, especially here in Japan, already live in that economy:
anything older than the last year's fashion must go, regardless of its
condition.

Regards,
Gernot
-- 
NNTP on Emacs 24.5 from Windows 7
0
Gernot
8/19/2016 6:54:14 AM
Reply:

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