f



Printer Ink

  I am new to this group and suspect this topic has been covered many times 
but I would appreciate advice.
  I bought a small printer about 6 months ago for about $40 Canadian.  It 
came with colour and black and white cartridges.  Yesterday I went to buy 
replacement ink cartridges and had to pay over $100 for them.  This is 
absolutely outrageous and if I had stopped and thought about it I would have 
simply purchased a new printer and thrown the old, perfectly serviceable 
one, away but this action offends me as being wasteful.  My next thought was 
that if I buy a better, more expensive, printer I should be able to get much 
more printing out of a given cartridge and save money in the long run.  I 
doubt if I got 200 pages of printing out of the last ones so that looks like 
about 50 cents per page.  Long ago I tried refilling cartridges on other 
printers but never had much success with this.
  Please advise me which printer make and model would give me adequate 
performance at optimum per page printing cost.  TIA.  If you want to reply 
directly delete the obvious bit and change the first a to "r."

  Alan C

acombellack@nspmsympatico.ca 


0
Alan
1/4/2005 1:25:17 PM
comp.periphs.printers 18139 articles. 0 followers. Post Follow

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In general, the least costly printers on initial acquisition end up the 
most costly for consumables (inks).

Middle priced inkjet printers tend to have larger cartridges, which 
decrease cost of ink, but you pay more for the printer itself.  These 
printers also tend to be more robust and sometimes faster printers as 
well, and may provide better quality output, as well.

You might wish to consider either 3rd party cartridges or refilled 
cartridges or home refilling, depending upon the brand of printer 
involved, as a way to save money and not dumping your printer when it is 
still totally functional.

Art


Alan Combellack wrote:

>   I am new to this group and suspect this topic has been covered many times 
> but I would appreciate advice.
>   I bought a small printer about 6 months ago for about $40 Canadian.  It 
> came with colour and black and white cartridges.  Yesterday I went to buy 
> replacement ink cartridges and had to pay over $100 for them.  This is 
> absolutely outrageous and if I had stopped and thought about it I would have 
> simply purchased a new printer and thrown the old, perfectly serviceable 
> one, away but this action offends me as being wasteful.  My next thought was 
> that if I buy a better, more expensive, printer I should be able to get much 
> more printing out of a given cartridge and save money in the long run.  I 
> doubt if I got 200 pages of printing out of the last ones so that looks like 
> about 50 cents per page.  Long ago I tried refilling cartridges on other 
> printers but never had much success with this.
>   Please advise me which printer make and model would give me adequate 
> performance at optimum per page printing cost.  TIA.  If you want to reply 
> directly delete the obvious bit and change the first a to "r."
> 
>   Alan C
> 
> acombellack@nspmsympatico.ca 
> 
> 

0
Arthur
1/4/2005 5:06:45 PM
Exactlly.

I need to buy around 7 new sets of cartridges for my Epson R200 each
month. Sometimes, more than 9 sets. That really costs me a lot.
I am going to try out bulk ink kit for my mass production.

0
Ronald1967
1/4/2005 10:02:00 PM
I am always amazed when people buy a basically bottom of the line 
printer for heavy and sometimes commercial usage, and then they are 
surprised by the ink use.  I suspect the R200 is a fine printer, but if 
I expected to be printing in such quantity, I would go for a more robust 
printer and install a bulk inking system ASAP.

Art

Ronald1967 wrote:

> Exactlly.
> 
> I need to buy around 7 new sets of cartridges for my Epson R200 each
> month. Sometimes, more than 9 sets. That really costs me a lot.
> I am going to try out bulk ink kit for my mass production.
> 

0
Arthur
1/6/2005 3:40:01 PM
Arthur:

Do you feel that there's
less (or more) of a problem
concerning the use of "compatible"
inks in a more expensive machine.
I have an R800 and I'm a bit anxious
about feeding it cheaper brands of ink.
Am I too overly concerned about gunking
up this machine in your opinion?

Rod

0
rostasi
1/6/2005 5:17:46 PM
It is not so much expense of the printer that's the issue (although 
obviously a really bad ink could mess up a printer head and a more 
expensive printer costs more to repair or replace...)

But that's not the real issue, in my opinion.  The real issue is what 
these compatible pigment inks are like.

It is relatively easy in terms of ink formulation, to make a dye ink.

Dye inks are solutions, like mixing sugar and water.  The dyes dissolve 
into the liquid base, so unless the company is using really incorrect 
materials, or isn't using basic technical hygiene, you could expect the 
ink to somewhat function, and again, usually they are fairly easy to 
clean out even if a mistake is made.

Pigment is is another level of sophistication in the formulation and 
manufacturing process, and even in how the cartridges are designed.

Pigmented inks require not only carefully selected colorant, but the 
grinding process, and the resins used are critical to how bright it will 
be, how well it will adhere to papers, how well the color will cover the 
paper surface (density), if the colors will produce metamerism (were 
they change relative to one another in different lighting sources how 
translucent they will be (the ink dots intersect one another).

We really don't know what "compatible" means in this case.  The inks 
could be dyes but they "work" in a R800, or it could mean that they will 
mix with the pigment inks left in your often cartridges without clotting.

Or, maybe they are really pigment inks, but how will the heads respond 
to them?  With they have similar color gamut, will they have similar 
adhesion on the paper, will they be as scratch resistant (remembering 
pigment inks tend to sit more on the surface of the paper than dye ink) 
will they dry evenly and provide a similar gloss or matte finish?  Will 
you find similar papers that will work with them, will you need new 
driver profiles for the ink colors? Will the inks be as archival, will 
they fade evenly, which is important in keeping color balance, even if 
fading does occur, etc, etc.

It is not that I'm necessarily crazy about the amount of money Epson 
brings in on these inks, but the question may be, why did you spend so 
much on an inkjet printer, if you are going to replace the inks with an 
unknown quantity?

Pigment ink formulation is much more complex than dye inks, so I have 
more difficulty saying "any old ink will do" with pigment inks.

Art

rostasi@yahoo.com wrote:

> Arthur:
> 
> Do you feel that there's
> less (or more) of a problem
> concerning the use of "compatible"
> inks in a more expensive machine.
> I have an R800 and I'm a bit anxious
> about feeding it cheaper brands of ink.
> Am I too overly concerned about gunking
> up this machine in your opinion?
> 
> Rod
> 

0
Arthur
1/7/2005 6:34:02 PM
rostasi@yahoo.com wrote:
> Arthur:
> 
> Do you feel that there's
> less (or more) of a problem
> concerning the use of "compatible"
> inks in a more expensive machine.
> I have an R800 and I'm a bit anxious
> about feeding it cheaper brands of ink.
> Am I too overly concerned about gunking
> up this machine in your opinion?

 From this:

Nozzle Configuration

* 180 nozzles (per cartridge)

it seems the printhead is not in the printer, but in the cartridge. So, though 
the original is pigment ink, countrary to Mr Entlich, I don't see were the 
risk lies. And there certainly won't be any dye/pigment mix if you buy cartridges.

OTOH, Staples.ca offers neither your printer or ink for it and two generics I 
checked don't specify if the ink is pigment or dye. In such a case, I'd bet 
it's a dye. If it is, your printer driver being designed to shoot a different 
sort of ink, I have no idea about the results. You /might/ end up with a 
quality very different from that provided by the original ink.

But, hell, if you're really pissed off by Epson ink price and grandma will 
certainly be dead in 10 years, you might want to give it a try. I've read 
about cartridges exploding in the printer and the whole house being blown 
apart, but I don't believe this happens too often. Ink companies -- Canon, 
Epson, HP, you name it -- like to play Gasper the Ghost.

Fortunately, we all know those ink companies have no representatives not 
working for the company on this group. But do beware of top posters :)

GP

0
GP
1/7/2005 7:49:46 PM
Hahahaha! OK, I'll be careful...
So, this "uncertainty principle"
takes me to the next variation:
Do any of you have a favorite
store (online or off) that offers
the best price that you've seen
on ink. Does it all just even out
if you buy it for a coupla bucks
cheaper online and then pay a
shipping and handling price too?

rod

0
rostasi
1/7/2005 8:38:30 PM
Unlike Mr. GP, I am unaware of ANY Epson printer that has the head 
incorporated as part of the cartridge, including the R800... Therefore, 
I stand by my original comments.  I'd certainly like to read about it if 
Mr. GP can provide me a reference.

Epson's technology is based upon vibration of piezo crystals, a bit 
costly to make into a toss away cartridge, and a bit crazy, since the 
heads are good for upwards of billions of dots before failure.

If others choose to take "Mr. GP's" advice, well, there you go...

It is beginning to appear Mr. GP is of the mistaken impression that I 
have some Epson association, or that somehow I can profit from Epson 
inks, and therefore I am providing deceptive information to improve my 
financial or other wealth.  Pretty insulting, if indeed that is his 
interpretation.

The thousands of people who know me over the many years I have been on 
these forums, of course, know better...



GP wrote:

> rostasi@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
>> Arthur:
>>
>> Do you feel that there's
>> less (or more) of a problem
>> concerning the use of "compatible"
>> inks in a more expensive machine.
>> I have an R800 and I'm a bit anxious
>> about feeding it cheaper brands of ink.
>> Am I too overly concerned about gunking
>> up this machine in your opinion?
> 
> 
>  From this:
> 
> Nozzle Configuration
> 
> * 180 nozzles (per cartridge)
> 
> it seems the printhead is not in the printer, but in the cartridge. So, 
> though the original is pigment ink, countrary to Mr Entlich, I don't see 
> were the risk lies. And there certainly won't be any dye/pigment mix if 
> you buy cartridges.
> 
> OTOH, Staples.ca offers neither your printer or ink for it and two 
> generics I checked don't specify if the ink is pigment or dye. In such a 
> case, I'd bet it's a dye. If it is, your printer driver being designed 
> to shoot a different sort of ink, I have no idea about the results. You 
> /might/ end up with a quality very different from that provided by the 
> original ink.
> 
> But, hell, if you're really pissed off by Epson ink price and grandma 
> will certainly be dead in 10 years, you might want to give it a try. 
> I've read about cartridges exploding in the printer and the whole house 
> being blown apart, but I don't believe this happens too often. Ink 
> companies -- Canon, Epson, HP, you name it -- like to play Gasper the 
> Ghost.
> 
> Fortunately, we all know those ink companies have no representatives not 
> working for the company on this group. But do beware of top posters :)
> 
> GP
> 

0
Arthur
1/9/2005 3:21:43 AM
Arthur Entlich wrote:

> Unlike Mr. GP, I am unaware of ANY Epson printer that has the head 
> incorporated as part of the cartridge, including the R800... Therefore, 
> I stand by my original comments.  

Had you bottom posted, we could have talked.

GP

0
GP
1/9/2005 7:18:52 AM
GP <gilpel@inverse.nretla.org> wrote:

>Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Unlike Mr. GP, I am unaware of ANY Epson printer that has the head 
>> incorporated as part of the cartridge, including the R800... Therefore, 
>> I stand by my original comments.  
>
>Had you bottom posted, we could have talked.
>
>GP

Ah, the old "I am insulted buy your lack of good form" when you are
wrong ploy!  Arthur is correct in every statement he made and you sir
were simply wrong.  Not to worry, though as misunderstandings and
misinterpretations abound here on Usenet. ;^)

Happy New Year!

Richard
0
Richard
1/9/2005 2:16:42 PM
 I hate bottom posters.  I like to see the last comment immediately.

PJ



On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 02:18:52 -0500, GP <gilpel@inverse.nretla.org>
wrote:

>Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Unlike Mr. GP, I am unaware of ANY Epson printer that has the head 
>> incorporated as part of the cartridge, including the R800... Therefore, 
>> I stand by my original comments.  
>
>Had you bottom posted, we could have talked.
>
>GP

0
PJx
1/9/2005 9:49:50 PM
Agreed.

PJx wrote:
>  I hate bottom posters.  I like to see the last comment immediately.
> 
> PJ
> 
> 
> 
0
Airman
1/9/2005 10:43:35 PM
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:49:50 -0600, PJx <me@privacy.com> wrote:

> I hate bottom posters.

Just like I don't understand why some people are too lazy or don't
know how to edit what they are replying to instead of reposting the
entire thread in their reply.

0
SK
1/10/2005 2:23:37 AM
Reply:

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