Please take a look at this SCA adapter:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D31494&item=3D677=
6967778&rd=3D1

I have two of these that came with a machine I bought recently.  They =
have an LED on them they have many connectors I'll count them; 1 =
(female) on back and a whole bunch of connectors (male and female) on =
front where ythe power goes.  They are made by Corporate Systems Center =
www.corpsys.com

The only markings on them I can find that seem to identify the Adapters =
are:

P  46 - 97
1 94V - 0
WO 15983 - B1
AF3354

this on the back written on the pc board.

I'm looking to get more but I would like them similar to what I have if =
necessary.  I don't even see the LEDs on any of these adapters at eBay =
although they talk about jumpers for it.

Am I looking at adapters which are not complete?

--=20
George Hester
_______________________________

I'm confused about your description, and your question.  That looks like a
standard SCA adapter.  There are only three connectors on it (unless you
count the LED pins) - SCA, M68, and Molex power.  The others (except the LED
pins) are jumpers.  The included card explains what the jumpers are.

SCA adapters are passive devices.  They are essentially a set of wires
between connector types.  There's no mystery to them.

Now what was your question?

Well if you look at those boards you will see that the LED is NOT on them.
They are on mine.  My board looks very similar to theirs the pertinent
connectors are that same.  But my boards have MANY connectors on them.
I wish I could get an image of one so you can see:

Here's as best a description as I can do.

Power Connector far left

To the right 7 side-by-side 2-pin male connectors
T the right of this the LED
Jest below that three female 9 pin connectors
Just below that 1 male 50 pin connector
Just below that  two Female 9 pin connectors
Bottom Female Connector 50 pin

Now looking at the image of what I posted this is what they have:

Power Connector far left.  In fact is the width of the board.  Mine is
slightly more than half the width of the board.

Top to the right Female Connector 50 pin
To the right 7 side-by-side 2-pin male connectors

Notice no LED on the boards at eBay.  See very much different.  My LED is
soldered right to the board

So that is why I asked are these boards at eBay incomplete?

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"DMF" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FYKdnZLwOPs9SinfRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>
> I'm confused about your description, and your question.  That looks like a
> standard SCA adapter.  There are only three connectors on it (unless you
> count the LED pins) - SCA, M68, and Molex power.  The others (except the
LED
> pins) are jumpers.  The included card explains what the jumpers are.
>
> SCA adapters are passive devices.  They are essentially a set of wires
> between connector types.  There's no mystery to them.
>
> Now what was your question?
>
>
>

Complete?  Depends on what you expect the adapter to do.  That's the real
question, isn't it?

Fwiw, I've never seen a board like the one you have.  The vast majority are
like the one pictured.  Some add a 50-pin connector.  Some add an LED
instead of just providing a pin-out for one.

Ah OK then.  The board I showed you is incomplete.  At least it doesn't have
the LED which in my book makes it incomplete if it is supposed to have one;
ie there is a pinout for it and doesn't have it. OK that's what I thought.
That doesn't mean I won't get one like those. I'm just trying figure out why
mine are so much different.  If I can find one like it I'll post a link to
it here.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"DMF" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:uY6dnUoxbfxLGijfRVn-1A@comcast.com...
> Complete?  Depends on what you expect the adapter to do.  That's the real
> question, isn't it?
>
> Fwiw, I've never seen a board like the one you have.  The vast majority
are
> like the one pictured.  Some add a 50-pin connector.  Some add an LED
> instead of just providing a pin-out for one.
>
>
>
>

Here this is very similar:

http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=3DSCA2SCSIT&variation=3D=
&aitem=3D25&mitem=3D34

--=20
George Hester
_______________________________
"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:4Pfte.26206$fp6.23073@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Ah OK then.  The board I showed you is incomplete.  At least it =
doesn't have
> the LED which in my book makes it incomplete if it is supposed to have =
one;
> ie there is a pinout for it and doesn't have it. OK that's what I =
thought.
> That doesn't mean I won't get one like those. I'm just trying figure =
out why
> mine are so much different.  If I can find one like it I'll post a =
link to
> it here.
>=20
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> "DMF" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:uY6dnUoxbfxLGijfRVn-1A@comcast.com...
> > Complete?  Depends on what you expect the adapter to do.  That's the =
real
> > question, isn't it?
> >
> > Fwiw, I've never seen a board like the one you have.  The vast =
majority
> are
> > like the one pictured.  Some add a 50-pin connector.  Some add an =
LED
> > instead of just providing a pin-out for one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=20

"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Here this is very similar:

http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=25&mitem=34

That's the standard product.  One with all those extra headers/connectors is
not anything usual.

Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't have
LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Here this is very similar:
>
>
http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
25&mitem=34
>
> That's the standard product.  One with all those extra headers/connectors
is
> not anything usual.
>
>

In message <7s0ue.31389$fp6.19203@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, George Hester 
<hesterloli@hotmail.com> writes
>Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't have
>LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
>
>--
>George Hester
>_______________________________
>"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> "George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>> Here this is very similar:
>>
>>
>http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
>25&mitem=34
>>
>> That's the standard product.  One with all those extra headers/connectors
>is
>> not anything usual.
>>
When you buy off of ebay you are always taking some risk.
But who would buy these gadgets - at 39 USD each, why not buy from a 
known source who will replace/refund unwanted/faulty connectors.

Have you noticed the transfer rates they "guarantee"?

-- 
Jeremy Boden

I would pay $39 if I could be guaranteed they work.  I do not want to pay $9
if I cannot be guaranteed they work.  When I see a board at eBay that says
it has a pinout for an LED but no LED then I become suspicious.  That's my
issue.  Will they work?  Oh well thanks for the help.  No I didn't check the
transfer rates.  Right now I just want to know if they'll work at all.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Jeremy Boden" <jeremy@jboden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ijoCCZF0lKuCFwF$@jboden.demon.co.uk...
> In message <7s0ue.31389$fp6.19203@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, George Hester
> <hesterloli@hotmail.com> writes
> >Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't
have
> >LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
> >
> >--
> >George Hester
> >_______________________________
> >"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >>
> >> "George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >> Here this is very similar:
> >>
> >>
>
>http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem
=
> >25&mitem=34
> >>
> >> That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
headers/connectors
> >is
> >> not anything usual.
> >>
> When you buy off of ebay you are always taking some risk.
> But who would buy these gadgets - at 39 USD each, why not buy from a
> known source who will replace/refund unwanted/faulty connectors.
>
> Have you noticed the transfer rates they "guarantee"?
>
> --
> Jeremy Boden

Idiot troll. The LED does not do anything. It is not necessary.

Stop your fucking whining and listen to what people have told you.

"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8T6ue.31528$fp6.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I would pay $39 if I could be guaranteed they work.  I do not want to pay $9
> if I cannot be guaranteed they work.  When I see a board at eBay that says
> it has a pinout for an LED but no LED then I become suspicious.  That's my
> issue.  Will they work?  Oh well thanks for the help.  No I didn't check the
> transfer rates.  Right now I just want to know if they'll work at all.
>
> --
> George Hester

Oh that was very helpful.  Thank for your wonderful help.  I did thank you
already though.  So this Troll is done making you a happy camper.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9bsak0reo@enews4.newsguy.com...
> Idiot troll. The LED does not do anything. It is not necessary.
>
> Stop your fucking whining and listen to what people have told you.
>
> "George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8T6ue.31528$fp6.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> > I would pay $39 if I could be guaranteed they work.  I do not want to
pay $9
> > if I cannot be guaranteed they work.  When I see a board at eBay that
says
> > it has a pinout for an LED but no LED then I become suspicious.  That's
my
> > issue.  Will they work?  Oh well thanks for the help.  No I didn't check
the
> > transfer rates.  Right now I just want to know if they'll work at all.
> >
> > --
> > George Hester
>
>

On 19/06/05 03:52, George Hester wrote:
> Well if you look at those boards you will see that the LED is NOT on them.
> They are on mine.  My board looks very similar to theirs the pertinent
> connectors are that same.  But my boards have MANY connectors on them.
> I wish I could get an image of one so you can see:
> 
> Here's as best a description as I can do.
> 
> Power Connector far left
> 
> To the right 7 side-by-side 2-pin male connectors
> T the right of this the LED
> Jest below that three female 9 pin connectors
> Just below that 1 male 50 pin connector
> Just below that  two Female 9 pin connectors
> Bottom Female Connector 50 pin
> 
> Now looking at the image of what I posted this is what they have:
> 
> Power Connector far left.  In fact is the width of the board.  Mine is
> slightly more than half the width of the board.
> 
> Top to the right Female Connector 50 pin

Wrong.  That is an 68-pin Wide SCSI connector, in this case LVD 
compliant at 360 MHz.

> To the right 7 side-by-side 2-pin male connectors

Wrong.  These are jumpers.

> 
> Notice no LED on the boards at eBay.  See very much different.  My LED is
> soldered right to the board

Not very practical if you want the LED to be visible on the front of the 
computer.  Hence that is normally a connector(Yes!) to allow attachment 
of a front mounted LED.

> 
> So that is why I asked are these boards at eBay incomplete?
> 
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> "DMF" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:FYKdnZLwOPs9SinfRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> 
>>I'm confused about your description, and your question.  That looks like a
>>standard SCA adapter.  There are only three connectors on it (unless you
>>count the LED pins) - SCA, M68, and Molex power.  The others (except the
> 
> LED
> 
>>pins) are jumpers.  The included card explains what the jumpers are.
>>
>>SCA adapters are passive devices.  They are essentially a set of wires
>>between connector types.  There's no mystery to them.
>>
>>Now what was your question?
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

On 19/06/05 16:47, George Hester wrote:
> Here this is very similar:
> 
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=25&mitem=34
> 

Those are old fashioned boards for Ultra Fast, Wide SCSI.  They will not 
work in LVD (Ultra2, Ultra3/Ultra160 or Ultra 320 mode).

What type of Host Adapter and SCSI periphirals do you have?

On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
> Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't have
> LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?

Depends on what you mean by "Work".
Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you 
described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very 
expensive.
There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your 
first posting:

1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large 
number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.

Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!

It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic 
information on how it works.

> 
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> 
>>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>Here this is very similar:
>>
>>
> 
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> 25&mitem=34
> 
>>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra headers/connectors
> 
> is
> 
>>not anything usual.
>>
>>
> 
> 

Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my second
post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when I saw what
I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
> > Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't
have
> > LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
>
> Depends on what you mean by "Work".
> Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you
> described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
> The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very
> expensive.
> There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your
> first posting:
>
> 1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large
> number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
> 2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
>
> Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
>
> It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
> information on how it works.
>
> >
> > --
> > George Hester
> > _______________________________
> > "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >>Here this is very similar:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> > 25&mitem=34
> >
> >>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
headers/connectors
> >
> > is
> >
> >>not anything usual.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

I have an onboard Adaptec AHA-2940/2940UW/2940D PCI SCSI Controller.  This
is what Windows XP says in Device Manager.  These connectors are the boards
I use to access the SCSI drives Metropolis 3391 9.1 GB.  The connector on
the MOBO says SCSI UW.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
news:d9stlp$97s$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> On 19/06/05 16:47, George Hester wrote:
> > Here this is very similar:
> >
> >
http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
25&mitem=34
> >
>
> Those are old fashioned boards for Ultra Fast, Wide SCSI.  They will not
> work in LVD (Ultra2, Ultra3/Ultra160 or Ultra 320 mode).
>
> What type of Host Adapter and SCSI periphirals do you have?

On 29/06/05 04:39, George Hester wrote:
> I have an onboard Adaptec AHA-2940/2940UW/2940D PCI SCSI Controller.  This
> is what Windows XP says in Device Manager.  These connectors are the boards
> I use to access the SCSI drives Metropolis 3391 9.1 GB.  The connector on
> the MOBO says SCSI UW.

The MS Windows XP type indication is too generic.  It groups a number of 
  adapters together that are rather different in the way they interface 
with periphirals.  The AH2940 has a single-ended "narrow" or 8-bit 
interface, the AHA2940D has a (High Voltage) differential interface.
Judging by the print on the MoBo I would assume your HBA is an 
AHA2940UW, which has an "Ultra Fast" and "Wide" or 16-bit interface.

That means it can run the bus at Ultra Fast clock speed, i.e.20 Mhz (=40 
MBytes/second on the wide bus).
At that speed you should be using active termination for reliable data 
transfers.
The termination on the SCA adapter(s) you already have is passive, 
judging from the picture at the URL you provided.

That means you should not be using the termination on that adapter, but 
use a normal end-of-cable terminator internally.

Recapitulating:

The $39 SCA adapter has (a) LED(s) you cannot see from the outside and 
terminators you should not use and is not compliant with LVD.

The $9 SCA adapter has none of that but is LVD compliant up to ULTRA320.

So why would you want to spend 39 dollar and effectively get less than 
you would for $ 9 ?

> 
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:d9stlp$97s$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> 
>>On 19/06/05 16:47, George Hester wrote:
>>
>>>Here this is very similar:
>>>
>>>
> 
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> 25&mitem=34
> 
>>Those are old fashioned boards for Ultra Fast, Wide SCSI.  They will not
>>work in LVD (Ultra2, Ultra3/Ultra160 or Ultra 320 mode).
>>
>>What type of Host Adapter and SCSI periphirals do you have?
> 
> 

On 29/06/05 04:34, George Hester wrote:
> Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my second
> post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when I saw what
> I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.

They look like that because passive termination has become obsolete and 
no manufacturer I know of puts passive termination on anything these 
days, because "narrow" 50-pin cabling is not compliant with LVD and 
because the internal LED is generally rather useless compared to having 
a LED on the front panel of the machine and it saves money not to put it on.

Quite honestly I can only explain your "wondering" as a result of a lack 
of understanding of SCSI.  With respect, there is no rational 
explanation why one should expect new SCA adapters to look like those 
used before "ULTRA" SCSI was introduced.

> 
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> 
>>On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
>>
>>>Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't
> 
> have
> 
>>>LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
>>
>>Depends on what you mean by "Work".
>>Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you
>>described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
>>The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very
>>expensive.
>>There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your
>>first posting:
>>
>>1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large
>>number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
>>2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
>>
>>Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
>>
>>It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
>>information on how it works.
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>George Hester
>>>_______________________________
>>>"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>>news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>>Here this is very similar:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> 
>>>25&mitem=34
>>>
>>>
>>>>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
> 
> headers/connectors
> 
>>>is
>>>
>>>
>>>>not anything usual.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> 

"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
news:d9vfbj$3bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> On 29/06/05 04:34, George Hester wrote:
> > Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my
second
> > post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when I saw
what
> > I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.
>
> They look like that because passive termination has become obsolete and
> no manufacturer I know of puts passive termination on anything these
> days, because "narrow" 50-pin cabling is not compliant with LVD and
> because the internal LED is generally rather useless compared to having
> a LED on the front panel of the machine and it saves money not to put it
on.
>
> Quite honestly I can only explain your "wondering" as a result of a lack
> of understanding of SCSI.  With respect, there is no rational
> explanation why one should expect new SCA adapters to look like those
> used before "ULTRA" SCSI was introduced.
>
> >
> > --
> > George Hester
> > _______________________________
> > "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> >
> >>On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
> >>
> >>>Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't
> >
> > have
> >
> >>>LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
> >>
> >>Depends on what you mean by "Work".
> >>Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you
> >>described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
> >>The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very
> >>expensive.
> >>There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your
> >>first posting:
> >>
> >>1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large
> >>number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
> >>2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
> >>
> >>Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
> >>
> >>It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
> >>information on how it works.
> >>
> >>
> >>>--
> >>>George Hester
> >>>_______________________________
> >>>"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >>>>Here this is very similar:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> >
> >>>25&mitem=34
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
> >
> > headers/connectors
> >
> >>>is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>not anything usual.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >

With all due respect, "there is no rational explanation why one should
expect new SCA adapters to look like those used before "ULTRA" SCSI was
introduced," because that is what I have and they work.  That seems rational
to me not to you?

--
George Hester
_______________________________

No reason.  So Arie you are saying the connectors I posted at eBay will
work?  That is basically all I want.  The LED is pretty but not necessary I
am just trying to make sure that what I buy will work.  And since I could
not compare what I saw at eBay satisfactorily with what I have and what I
have works I asked my original question.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
news:d9vegc$357$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> On 29/06/05 04:39, George Hester wrote:
> > I have an onboard Adaptec AHA-2940/2940UW/2940D PCI SCSI Controller.
This
> > is what Windows XP says in Device Manager.  These connectors are the
boards
> > I use to access the SCSI drives Metropolis 3391 9.1 GB.  The connector
on
> > the MOBO says SCSI UW.
>
> The MS Windows XP type indication is too generic.  It groups a number of
>   adapters together that are rather different in the way they interface
> with periphirals.  The AH2940 has a single-ended "narrow" or 8-bit
> interface, the AHA2940D has a (High Voltage) differential interface.
> Judging by the print on the MoBo I would assume your HBA is an
> AHA2940UW, which has an "Ultra Fast" and "Wide" or 16-bit interface.
>
> That means it can run the bus at Ultra Fast clock speed, i.e.20 Mhz (=40
> MBytes/second on the wide bus).
> At that speed you should be using active termination for reliable data
> transfers.
> The termination on the SCA adapter(s) you already have is passive,
> judging from the picture at the URL you provided.
>
> That means you should not be using the termination on that adapter, but
> use a normal end-of-cable terminator internally.
>
> Recapitulating:
>
> The $39 SCA adapter has (a) LED(s) you cannot see from the outside and
> terminators you should not use and is not compliant with LVD.
>
> The $9 SCA adapter has none of that but is LVD compliant up to ULTRA320.
>
> So why would you want to spend 39 dollar and effectively get less than
> you would for $ 9 ?
>
> >
> > --
> > George Hester
> > _______________________________
> > "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:d9stlp$97s$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> >
> >>On 19/06/05 16:47, George Hester wrote:
> >>
> >>>Here this is very similar:
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> > 25&mitem=34
> >
> >>Those are old fashioned boards for Ultra Fast, Wide SCSI.  They will not
> >>work in LVD (Ultra2, Ultra3/Ultra160 or Ultra 320 mode).
> >>
> >>What type of Host Adapter and SCSI periphirals do you have?
> >
> >

On 30/06/05 23:40, George Hester wrote:
> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:d9vfbj$3bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> 
>>On 29/06/05 04:34, George Hester wrote:
>>
>>>Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my
> 
> second
> 
>>>post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when I saw
> 
> what
> 
>>>I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.
>>
>>They look like that because passive termination has become obsolete and
>>no manufacturer I know of puts passive termination on anything these
>>days, because "narrow" 50-pin cabling is not compliant with LVD and
>>because the internal LED is generally rather useless compared to having
>>a LED on the front panel of the machine and it saves money not to put it
> 
> on.
> 
>>Quite honestly I can only explain your "wondering" as a result of a lack
>>of understanding of SCSI.  With respect, there is no rational
>>explanation why one should expect new SCA adapters to look like those
>>used before "ULTRA" SCSI was introduced.
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>George Hester
>>>_______________________________
>>>"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They don't
>>>
>>>have
>>>
>>>
>>>>>LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
>>>>
>>>>Depends on what you mean by "Work".
>>>>Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you
>>>>described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
>>>>The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very
>>>>expensive.
>>>>There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your
>>>>first posting:
>>>>
>>>>1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large
>>>>number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
>>>>2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
>>>>
>>>>Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
>>>>
>>>>It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
>>>>information on how it works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>George Hester
>>>>>_______________________________
>>>>>"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>>>>Here this is very similar:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> 
>>>>>25&mitem=34
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
>>>
>>>headers/connectors
>>>
>>>
>>>>>is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>not anything usual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> 
> With all due respect, "there is no rational explanation why one should
> expect new SCA adapters to look like those used before "ULTRA" SCSI was
> introduced," because that is what I have and they work.  That seems rational
> to me not to you?
> 
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> 

Dear George,

I'll try again to explain in more detail.

The SCA adapter you have "looks" like it does because it has passive 
terminators (the three yellow resistor SIL-packs) on board and some 
jumpers to enable or disable these terminators and because it has a 
"narrow" or 8-bit 50-pin connector.  All that was fine in the days of 5 
and 10 MHz SCSI bus speed and SCA-1.  Since ULTRA SCSI and above 
(Ultra2, Ultra3/160, Ultra320) the SCSI bus can operate at speeds in 
excess of 20 MHz (40, 80, 160 Mhz).
At these speeds and for some other technical reasons, passive 
termination does not work reliably if at all and in the case of a LVD 
bus it simply does not work.
So it has become obsolete and I know of no manufacturer that still 
incorporates passive termination on SCSI interfaces.

You state that you have Ultra SCSI working with these adapters.  That is 
very well possible.  What you do not explain is what termination you 
use.  You could use an separate end-of-cable terminator of the active 
sort or you could even use the build-in termination of some other 
non-SCA SCSI device, active or not.
Perhaps you do not use active termination at all but passive 
termination.  Perhaps even the terminators on the SCA adapter.  All that 
is possible and may work, albeit that in the case of passive termination 
the bus probably runs at a lower speed, i.e. 10 Mhz (=20 MB/sec), not at 
20 MHz (=40 MB/sec).
Unless you do some measuring you would not neccesarily know the true bus 
speed.
But in the right circumstances, only one device on the bus, a short 
internal cable, you could be lucky and get away with it.
A matter of chance.

That is not what SCSI cabling now is designed for.  In particular the $9 
SCA adapters are explicitly advertised to be ULTRA320 compliant.  That 
means that passive termination is definitely useless because ULTRA320 
uses Low Voltage Differential signals on the bus and that just does not 
work with passive termination.
For the same reason there is no 50-pin connector on that adapter, 
ULTRA320 is almost exclusively used on hard disk drives with a "Wide" 
(=16 bit) interface and that excludes the 50-pin connectors.
You may also note that this adapter is lower than your older ones.  That 
is because it is made to fit behind a low profile 3.5" device, 
aproximately 25 mm high.
The older ones were made to fit behind a "half height" drive, 
approximately 40 mm high, so they had some more space for extra components.

I hope it is now clear to you why you cannot expect this SCA adapter to 
look like your other ones.

Regards,

Arie Bant.

On 30/06/05 23:44, George Hester wrote:
> No reason.  So Arie you are saying the connectors I posted at eBay will
> work?  That is basically all I want.  The LED is pretty but not necessary I
> am just trying to make sure that what I buy will work.  And since I could
> not compare what I saw at eBay satisfactorily with what I have and what I
> have works I asked my original question.
> 
> --
> George Hester

Dear George,

Of course I cannot categorically claim that these $9 adapters will work.
But I see absolutely no reason why they would not work.
I am using some very much like these myself without any problem at all.
I estimate the chance they will work at 99.99 % or higher.
That is allowing for 1 in 10,000 to be a faulty one that slipped through 
quality control.  I am sure if you happen to get that one, they will 
replace it for you.

Arie Bant.

> _______________________________
> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:d9vegc$357$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> 
>>On 29/06/05 04:39, George Hester wrote:
>>
>>>I have an onboard Adaptec AHA-2940/2940UW/2940D PCI SCSI Controller.
> 
> This
> 
>>>is what Windows XP says in Device Manager.  These connectors are the
> 
> boards
> 
>>>I use to access the SCSI drives Metropolis 3391 9.1 GB.  The connector
> 
> on
> 
>>>the MOBO says SCSI UW.
>>
>>The MS Windows XP type indication is too generic.  It groups a number of
>>  adapters together that are rather different in the way they interface
>>with periphirals.  The AH2940 has a single-ended "narrow" or 8-bit
>>interface, the AHA2940D has a (High Voltage) differential interface.
>>Judging by the print on the MoBo I would assume your HBA is an
>>AHA2940UW, which has an "Ultra Fast" and "Wide" or 16-bit interface.
>>
>>That means it can run the bus at Ultra Fast clock speed, i.e.20 Mhz (=40
>>MBytes/second on the wide bus).
>>At that speed you should be using active termination for reliable data
>>transfers.
>>The termination on the SCA adapter(s) you already have is passive,
>>judging from the picture at the URL you provided.
>>
>>That means you should not be using the termination on that adapter, but
>>use a normal end-of-cable terminator internally.
>>
>>Recapitulating:
>>
>>The $39 SCA adapter has (a) LED(s) you cannot see from the outside and
>>terminators you should not use and is not compliant with LVD.
>>
>>The $9 SCA adapter has none of that but is LVD compliant up to ULTRA320.
>>
>>So why would you want to spend 39 dollar and effectively get less than
>>you would for $ 9 ?
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>George Hester
>>>_______________________________
>>>"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:d9stlp$97s$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 19/06/05 16:47, George Hester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Here this is very similar:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> 
>>>25&mitem=34
>>>
>>>
>>>>Those are old fashioned boards for Ultra Fast, Wide SCSI.  They will not
>>>>work in LVD (Ultra2, Ultra3/Ultra160 or Ultra 320 mode).
>>>>
>>>>What type of Host Adapter and SCSI periphirals do you have?
>>>
>>>
> 

"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message news:d9vegc$357$1@news.freedom2surf.net
> On 29/06/05 04:39, George Hester wrote:
> > I have an onboard Adaptec AHA-2940/2940UW/2940D PCI SCSI Controller.
> > This  is what Windows XP says in Device Manager.  These connectors are the 
> > boards I use to access the SCSI drives Metropolis 3391 9.1 GB.  The connector 
> > on the MOBO says SCSI UW.
> 
> The MS Windows XP type indication is too generic.  
> It groups a number of adapters together that are rather different 
> in the way they interface with periphirals.  

Nope. It's the driver for the 7870, 7880 and 7895 series chips.

> The AH2940 has a single-ended "narrow" or 8-bit interface, 

> the AHA2940D has a (High Voltage) differential interface.

Nope. That is the AHA2944. The 2940D is the 2940Dual.

> Judging by the print on the MoBo I would assume your HBA is an
> AHA2940UW, which has an "Ultra Fast" and "Wide" or 16-bit interface.
> 
> That means it can run the bus at Ultra Fast clock speed, i.e.20 Mhz (=40
> MBytes/second on the wide bus).
> At that speed you should be using active termination for reliable data
> transfers.
> The termination on the SCA adapter(s) you already have is passive,

> judging from the picture at the URL you provided.

Which apparently he *doesn't* have.

> 
> That means you should not be using the termination on that adapter, but
> use a normal end-of-cable terminator internally.
> 
> Recapitulating:
> 
> The $39 SCA adapter has (a) LED(s) you cannot see from the outside and
> terminators you should not use and is not compliant with LVD.
> 
> The $9 SCA adapter has none of that but is LVD compliant up to ULTRA320.
> 
> So why would you want to spend 39 dollar and effectively get less than
> you would for $ 9 ?
> 
> > 
> > --
> > George Hester
> > 
> > "Arie Bant" abant@mail.com> wrote in message news:d9stlp$97s$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> > 
> > > On 19/06/05 16:47, George Hester wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Here this is very similar:
> > > > 
> > 
> > http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=25&mitem=34
> > 
> > > Those are old fashioned boards for Ultra Fast, Wide SCSI.  They will not
> > > work in LVD (Ultra2, Ultra3/Ultra160 or Ultra 320 mode).
> > > 
> > > What type of Host Adapter and SCSI periphirals do you have?

Whatever all that means I can see you put some thought into it.  I will keep
that for reference thanks.

--
George Hester
_______________________________
"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
news:da2ahd$vug$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> On 30/06/05 23:40, George Hester wrote:
> > "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:d9vfbj$3bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> >
> >>On 29/06/05 04:34, George Hester wrote:
> >>
> >>>Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my
> >
> > second
> >
> >>>post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when I saw
> >
> > what
> >
> >>>I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.
> >>
> >>They look like that because passive termination has become obsolete and
> >>no manufacturer I know of puts passive termination on anything these
> >>days, because "narrow" 50-pin cabling is not compliant with LVD and
> >>because the internal LED is generally rather useless compared to having
> >>a LED on the front panel of the machine and it saves money not to put it
> >
> > on.
> >
> >>Quite honestly I can only explain your "wondering" as a result of a lack
> >>of understanding of SCSI.  With respect, there is no rational
> >>explanation why one should expect new SCA adapters to look like those
> >>used before "ULTRA" SCSI was introduced.
> >>
> >>
> >>>--
> >>>George Hester
> >>>_______________________________
> >>>"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They
don't
> >>>
> >>>have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
> >>>>
> >>>>Depends on what you mean by "Work".
> >>>>Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you
> >>>>described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
> >>>>The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very
> >>>>expensive.
> >>>>There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your
> >>>>first posting:
> >>>>
> >>>>1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large
> >>>>number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
> >>>>2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
> >>>>
> >>>>Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
> >>>>
> >>>>It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
> >>>>information on how it works.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>George Hester
> >>>>>_______________________________
> >>>>>"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >>>>>>Here this is very similar:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> >
> >>>>>25&mitem=34
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
> >>>
> >>>headers/connectors
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>not anything usual.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> > With all due respect, "there is no rational explanation why one should
> > expect new SCA adapters to look like those used before "ULTRA" SCSI was
> > introduced," because that is what I have and they work.  That seems
rational
> > to me not to you?
> >
> > --
> > George Hester
> > _______________________________
> >
>
> Dear George,
>
> I'll try again to explain in more detail.
>
> The SCA adapter you have "looks" like it does because it has passive
> terminators (the three yellow resistor SIL-packs) on board and some
> jumpers to enable or disable these terminators and because it has a
> "narrow" or 8-bit 50-pin connector.  All that was fine in the days of 5
> and 10 MHz SCSI bus speed and SCA-1.  Since ULTRA SCSI and above
> (Ultra2, Ultra3/160, Ultra320) the SCSI bus can operate at speeds in
> excess of 20 MHz (40, 80, 160 Mhz).
> At these speeds and for some other technical reasons, passive
> termination does not work reliably if at all and in the case of a LVD
> bus it simply does not work.
> So it has become obsolete and I know of no manufacturer that still
> incorporates passive termination on SCSI interfaces.
>
> You state that you have Ultra SCSI working with these adapters.  That is
> very well possible.  What you do not explain is what termination you
> use.  You could use an separate end-of-cable terminator of the active
> sort or you could even use the build-in termination of some other
> non-SCA SCSI device, active or not.
> Perhaps you do not use active termination at all but passive
> termination.  Perhaps even the terminators on the SCA adapter.  All that
> is possible and may work, albeit that in the case of passive termination
> the bus probably runs at a lower speed, i.e. 10 Mhz (=20 MB/sec), not at
> 20 MHz (=40 MB/sec).
> Unless you do some measuring you would not neccesarily know the true bus
> speed.
> But in the right circumstances, only one device on the bus, a short
> internal cable, you could be lucky and get away with it.
> A matter of chance.
>
> That is not what SCSI cabling now is designed for.  In particular the $9
> SCA adapters are explicitly advertised to be ULTRA320 compliant.  That
> means that passive termination is definitely useless because ULTRA320
> uses Low Voltage Differential signals on the bus and that just does not
> work with passive termination.
> For the same reason there is no 50-pin connector on that adapter,
> ULTRA320 is almost exclusively used on hard disk drives with a "Wide"
> (=16 bit) interface and that excludes the 50-pin connectors.
> You may also note that this adapter is lower than your older ones.  That
> is because it is made to fit behind a low profile 3.5" device,
> aproximately 25 mm high.
> The older ones were made to fit behind a "half height" drive,
> approximately 40 mm high, so they had some more space for extra
components.
>
> I hope it is now clear to you why you cannot expect this SCA adapter to
> look like your other ones.
>
> Regards,
>
> Arie Bant.

On 03/07/05 02:52, George Hester wrote:
> Whatever all that means I can see you put some thought into it.  I will keep
> that for reference thanks.

My pleasure George.

My advice to you is, if you want to work with SCSI, you should try and 
learn so much about it that at least you know what it is about at a 
conceptual level and where you can find specific info if you need it.
Search Google for "SCSI Glossary".

For now, what did you not understand that makes you say "Whatever all 
that means"?

Arie Bant.

> 
> --
> George Hester
> _______________________________
> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:da2ahd$vug$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> 
>>On 30/06/05 23:40, George Hester wrote:
>>
>>>"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:d9vfbj$3bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 29/06/05 04:34, George Hester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my
>>>
>>>second
>>>
>>>
>>>>>post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when I saw
>>>
>>>what
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.
>>>>
>>>>They look like that because passive termination has become obsolete and
>>>>no manufacturer I know of puts passive termination on anything these
>>>>days, because "narrow" 50-pin cabling is not compliant with LVD and
>>>>because the internal LED is generally rather useless compared to having
>>>>a LED on the front panel of the machine and it saves money not to put it
>>>
>>>on.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Quite honestly I can only explain your "wondering" as a result of a lack
>>>>of understanding of SCSI.  With respect, there is no rational
>>>>explanation why one should expect new SCA adapters to look like those
>>>>used before "ULTRA" SCSI was introduced.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>George Hester
>>>>>_______________________________
>>>>>"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They
> 
> don't
> 
>>>>>have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Depends on what you mean by "Work".
>>>>>>Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things you
>>>>>>described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
>>>>>>The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but very
>>>>>>expensive.
>>>>>>There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in your
>>>>>>first posting:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the large
>>>>>>number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the terminators.
>>>>>>2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
>>>>>>information on how it works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>George Hester
>>>>>>>_______________________________
>>>>>>>"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>>>>>>Here this is very similar:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem=
> 
>>>>>>>25&mitem=34
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
>>>>>
>>>>>headers/connectors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>not anything usual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>With all due respect, "there is no rational explanation why one should
>>>expect new SCA adapters to look like those used before "ULTRA" SCSI was
>>>introduced," because that is what I have and they work.  That seems
> 
> rational
> 
>>>to me not to you?
>>>
>>>--
>>>George Hester
>>>_______________________________
>>>
>>
>>Dear George,
>>
>>I'll try again to explain in more detail.
>>
>>The SCA adapter you have "looks" like it does because it has passive
>>terminators (the three yellow resistor SIL-packs) on board and some
>>jumpers to enable or disable these terminators and because it has a
>>"narrow" or 8-bit 50-pin connector.  All that was fine in the days of 5
>>and 10 MHz SCSI bus speed and SCA-1.  Since ULTRA SCSI and above
>>(Ultra2, Ultra3/160, Ultra320) the SCSI bus can operate at speeds in
>>excess of 20 MHz (40, 80, 160 Mhz).
>>At these speeds and for some other technical reasons, passive
>>termination does not work reliably if at all and in the case of a LVD
>>bus it simply does not work.
>>So it has become obsolete and I know of no manufacturer that still
>>incorporates passive termination on SCSI interfaces.
>>
>>You state that you have Ultra SCSI working with these adapters.  That is
>>very well possible.  What you do not explain is what termination you
>>use.  You could use an separate end-of-cable terminator of the active
>>sort or you could even use the build-in termination of some other
>>non-SCA SCSI device, active or not.
>>Perhaps you do not use active termination at all but passive
>>termination.  Perhaps even the terminators on the SCA adapter.  All that
>>is possible and may work, albeit that in the case of passive termination
>>the bus probably runs at a lower speed, i.e. 10 Mhz (=20 MB/sec), not at
>>20 MHz (=40 MB/sec).
>>Unless you do some measuring you would not neccesarily know the true bus
>>speed.
>>But in the right circumstances, only one device on the bus, a short
>>internal cable, you could be lucky and get away with it.
>>A matter of chance.
>>
>>That is not what SCSI cabling now is designed for.  In particular the $9
>>SCA adapters are explicitly advertised to be ULTRA320 compliant.  That
>>means that passive termination is definitely useless because ULTRA320
>>uses Low Voltage Differential signals on the bus and that just does not
>>work with passive termination.
>>For the same reason there is no 50-pin connector on that adapter,
>>ULTRA320 is almost exclusively used on hard disk drives with a "Wide"
>>(=16 bit) interface and that excludes the 50-pin connectors.
>>You may also note that this adapter is lower than your older ones.  That
>>is because it is made to fit behind a low profile 3.5" device,
>>aproximately 25 mm high.
>>The older ones were made to fit behind a "half height" drive,
>>approximately 40 mm high, so they had some more space for extra
> 
> components.
> 
>>I hope it is now clear to you why you cannot expect this SCA adapter to
>>look like your other ones.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Arie Bant.
> 
> 

On 04/07/05 02:20, Arie Bant wrote:
> On 03/07/05 02:52, George Hester wrote:
> 
>> Whatever all that means I can see you put some thought into it.  I 
>> will keep
>> that for reference thanks.
> 
> 
> My pleasure George.
> 
> My advice to you is, if you want to work with SCSI, you should try and 
> learn so much about it that at least you know what it is about at a 
> conceptual level and where you can find specific info if you need it.
> Search Google for "SCSI Glossary".

On second thought, this is your best bet: 
http://www.paralan.com/gloswdlist.html

The others seem rather outdated and even plain wrong here and there.
There is a lot of mis-information about SCSI.
But it is the best, perhaps even only, universal standard bus for 
computer peripherals we have at this moment.
If IBM had chosen the SCSI-bus for the PC, back in 82(PC-XT) or 
84(PC-AT), as many commentators at the time thought they should have, we 
would all be using it now, MoBos would all have a SCSI HBA, SCSI drives 
would be as cheap as ATA drives now, ATA would not exist and the 
ridiculous religious arguments about ATA-vs-SCSI would not take place.
> 
> For now, what did you not understand that makes you say "Whatever all 
> that means"?
> 
> Arie Bant.
> 
>>
>> -- 
>> George Hester
>> _______________________________
>> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:da2ahd$vug$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>
>>> On 30/06/05 23:40, George Hester wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:d9vfbj$3bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 29/06/05 04:34, George Hester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well thank you that was my intent all along.  The ones you see at my
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> second
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> post are the ones I have.  So I think you can understand why when 
>>>>>> I saw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> what
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I saw at eBay I was wondering why they didn't look like mine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They look like that because passive termination has become obsolete 
>>>>> and
>>>>> no manufacturer I know of puts passive termination on anything these
>>>>> days, because "narrow" 50-pin cabling is not compliant with LVD and
>>>>> because the internal LED is generally rather useless compared to 
>>>>> having
>>>>> a LED on the front panel of the machine and it saves money not to 
>>>>> put it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Quite honestly I can only explain your "wondering" as a result of a 
>>>>> lack
>>>>> of understanding of SCSI.  With respect, there is no rational
>>>>> explanation why one should expect new SCA adapters to look like those
>>>>> used before "ULTRA" SCSI was introduced.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> George Hester
>>>>>> _______________________________
>>>>>> "Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:d9sua3$9dt$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21/06/05 23:24, George Hester wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes but will the ones I see at eBay work?  That's my issue.  They
>>
>>
>> don't
>>
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LEDs what else don't they have?  The ability to work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on what you mean by "Work".
>>>>>>> Just having had a second glance I noticed that some of the things 
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> described as connectors are not, they are Jumpers.
>>>>>>> The adapters your URL pointed at are infact not so standard, but 
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>>> There are two differences with the cheaper ones you pointed at in 
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> first posting:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1   These have built-in SCSI terminators, rather unusual and the 
>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>> number of jumpers looks to be there to enable/disable the 
>>>>>>> terminators.
>>>>>>> 2   These are not LVD compatible, i.e only useful with old kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did I say they are expensive?  Shamefully so!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems your understanding of SCSI could do with reading some basic
>>>>>>> information on how it works.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> George Hester
>>>>>>>> _______________________________
>>>>>>>> "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:yXmte.338823$cg1.129226@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:Msgte.26217$fp6.5436@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>>>>>>> Here this is very similar:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=SCA2SCSIT&variation=&aitem= 
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> 25&mitem=34
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's the standard product.  One with all those extra
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> headers/connectors
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> not anything usual.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> With all due respect, "there is no rational explanation why one should
>>>> expect new SCA adapters to look like those used before "ULTRA" SCSI was
>>>> introduced," because that is what I have and they work.  That seems
>>
>>
>> rational
>>
>>>> to me not to you?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> George Hester
>>>> _______________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dear George,
>>>
>>> I'll try again to explain in more detail.
>>>
>>> The SCA adapter you have "looks" like it does because it has passive
>>> terminators (the three yellow resistor SIL-packs) on board and some
>>> jumpers to enable or disable these terminators and because it has a
>>> "narrow" or 8-bit 50-pin connector.  All that was fine in the days of 5
>>> and 10 MHz SCSI bus speed and SCA-1.  Since ULTRA SCSI and above
>>> (Ultra2, Ultra3/160, Ultra320) the SCSI bus can operate at speeds in
>>> excess of 20 MHz (40, 80, 160 Mhz).
>>> At these speeds and for some other technical reasons, passive
>>> termination does not work reliably if at all and in the case of a LVD
>>> bus it simply does not work.
>>> So it has become obsolete and I know of no manufacturer that still
>>> incorporates passive termination on SCSI interfaces.
>>>
>>> You state that you have Ultra SCSI working with these adapters.  That is
>>> very well possible.  What you do not explain is what termination you
>>> use.  You could use an separate end-of-cable terminator of the active
>>> sort or you could even use the build-in termination of some other
>>> non-SCA SCSI device, active or not.
>>> Perhaps you do not use active termination at all but passive
>>> termination.  Perhaps even the terminators on the SCA adapter.  All that
>>> is possible and may work, albeit that in the case of passive termination
>>> the bus probably runs at a lower speed, i.e. 10 Mhz (=20 MB/sec), not at
>>> 20 MHz (=40 MB/sec).
>>> Unless you do some measuring you would not neccesarily know the true bus
>>> speed.
>>> But in the right circumstances, only one device on the bus, a short
>>> internal cable, you could be lucky and get away with it.
>>> A matter of chance.
>>>
>>> That is not what SCSI cabling now is designed for.  In particular the $9
>>> SCA adapters are explicitly advertised to be ULTRA320 compliant.  That
>>> means that passive termination is definitely useless because ULTRA320
>>> uses Low Voltage Differential signals on the bus and that just does not
>>> work with passive termination.
>>> For the same reason there is no 50-pin connector on that adapter,
>>> ULTRA320 is almost exclusively used on hard disk drives with a "Wide"
>>> (=16 bit) interface and that excludes the 50-pin connectors.
>>> You may also note that this adapter is lower than your older ones.  That
>>> is because it is made to fit behind a low profile 3.5" device,
>>> aproximately 25 mm high.
>>> The older ones were made to fit behind a "half height" drive,
>>> approximately 40 mm high, so they had some more space for extra
>>
>>
>> components.
>>
>>> I hope it is now clear to you why you cannot expect this SCA adapter to
>>> look like your other ones.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Arie Bant.
>>
>>
>>