ATAPI CD-ROM drive in a SCSI system

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I have an old SCSI based XP system with a Tekram DC-390U2W controller. 
The 3 HDs and a CD/DVD player runs off that controller. The only drive 
that is not a SCSI drive is a Plextor ATAPI CD-ROM drive on an IDE 
cable, in master configuration. These drives all run fine but for the 
life of me I can't boot from the ATAPI drive even though I just about 
tried all the boot sequences in the mobo BIOS that I could think of. I 
can boot from the SCSI CD-ROM drive but that drive is getting to be 
unreliable.

I think somehow the SCSI adapter's built-in BIOS interferes with the 
ATAPI drive's boot process but I can't figure out how to fix it. Any 
leads would be appreciated. 

0
Reply Cameo 1/11/2010 8:17:53 AM

See related articles to this posting

Cameo wrote:
> 
> I think somehow the SCSI adapter's built-in BIOS interferes with the
> ATAPI drive's boot process but I can't figure out how to fix it. Any
> leads would be appreciated.

If you select "CDROM before SCSI" in the mainboard BIOS it should work.
If not, take out the SCSI adapter and try again only with the ATAPI
drive. If it still don't work, maybe your mainboard BIOS is too old and
cannot boot from ATAPI.


Micha
0
Reply Michael 1/11/2010 9:50:09 AM

In article <hiemrd$amb$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
Cameo <cameo@cameo.invalid> wrote:
>I have an old SCSI based XP system with a Tekram DC-390U2W controller.

>... These drives all run fine but for the
>life of me I can't boot from the ATAPI drive even though I just about
>tried all the boot sequences in the mobo BIOS that I could think of ...
>I think somehow the SCSI adapter's built-in BIOS interferes with the
>ATAPI drive's boot process but I can't figure out how to fix it.

I know it's a lot of typing but could you give a little view
of what menu/choices the BIOS gives you?
Some have settings in 2 places for handling SCSI/external controllers
and for setting the boot order/priorities.

Disabling the SCSI controller's BIOS is a last resort
(since it may be hard to re-enable)
but perhaps it has a choice to UN-check for boot support.
0
Reply jeffj 1/11/2010 5:03:59 PM

"Jeff Jonas" <jeffj@panix.com> wrote in message 
news:hifllv$2va$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <hiemrd$amb$1@news.eternal-september.org>,

> I know it's a lot of typing but could you give a little view
> of what menu/choices the BIOS gives you?
> Some have settings in 2 places for handling SCSI/external controllers
> and for setting the boot order/priorities.

Sure. I made some snapshots of the MoBo BIOS screens so you have a 
better idea what I am dealing with. The pics are not very sharp due to 
some handshaking, but still readable:

This one is the top level BIOS screen, with the red highlights screen 
coming up next:

<https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMTBkYmczZnJ3cQ&hl=en>

The current boot sequence highlighted with read is shown on the 
following screen:

<https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfOGNqbWY0cmZm&hl=en>

Note, I do not show the CDROM boot option on that screen because I tried 
it before and it did not work.

The following pic shows the available boot sequences. What I find 
strange is that none of the boot sequences start with "A,CDROM.*"  or 
"CDROM,A,*" which would be more logical than the other two sequences 
containing CDROM.

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfNGNzdmM3ZmZk&hl=en

By the way, I think the SCSI boot option might be applying in cases 
where the SCSI controller does not have a built-in BIOS. However, the 
CDROM option definitely applies to drives on the EIDE bus.

> Disabling the SCSI controller's BIOS is a last resort
> (since it may be hard to re-enable)
> but perhaps it has a choice to UN-check for boot support.

I'm not even sure how to disable it in the BIOS. It doesn't seem to be 
an option that I can see. So I might have to remove the SCSI adapter 
itself which I hesitate as almost every time I open the case I enounter 
some loose contact problems afterwards. This time the PC has been 
working solidly for over a year without having to touch anything inside 
the case. It would be only after exhausting all other (soft) options.

0
Reply Cameo 1/12/2010 1:44:10 AM

Cameo wrote:
> "Jeff Jonas" <jeffj@panix.com> wrote in message 
> news:hifllv$2va$1@panix5.panix.com...
>> In article <hiemrd$amb$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> 
>> I know it's a lot of typing but could you give a little view
>> of what menu/choices the BIOS gives you?
>> Some have settings in 2 places for handling SCSI/external controllers
>> and for setting the boot order/priorities.
> 
> Sure. I made some snapshots of the MoBo BIOS screens so you have a 
> better idea what I am dealing with. The pics are not very sharp due to 
> some handshaking, but still readable:
> 
> This one is the top level BIOS screen, with the red highlights screen 
> coming up next:
> 
> <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMTBkYmczZnJ3cQ&hl=en> 
> 
> 
> The current boot sequence highlighted with read is shown on the 
> following screen:
> 
> <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfOGNqbWY0cmZm&hl=en> 
> 
> 
> Note, I do not show the CDROM boot option on that screen because I tried 
> it before and it did not work.
> 
> The following pic shows the available boot sequences. What I find 
> strange is that none of the boot sequences start with "A,CDROM.*"  or 
> "CDROM,A,*" which would be more logical than the other two sequences 
> containing CDROM.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfNGNzdmM3ZmZk&hl=en 
> 
> 
> By the way, I think the SCSI boot option might be applying in cases 
> where the SCSI controller does not have a built-in BIOS. However, the 
> CDROM option definitely applies to drives on the EIDE bus.
> 
>> Disabling the SCSI controller's BIOS is a last resort
>> (since it may be hard to re-enable)
>> but perhaps it has a choice to UN-check for boot support.
> 
> I'm not even sure how to disable it in the BIOS. It doesn't seem to be 
> an option that I can see. So I might have to remove the SCSI adapter 
> itself which I hesitate as almost every time I open the case I enounter 
> some loose contact problems afterwards. This time the PC has been 
> working solidly for over a year without having to touch anything inside 
> the case. It would be only after exhausting all other (soft) options.
> 

If you have a CD-ROM on the SCSI controller, I would think THAT would be 
the CD-ROM that the BIOS is looking for when it tries to boot with that 
option.  It appears to me that the designers of the BIOS assumed there 
would only be one CD-ROM.  Have you tried removing the SCSI CD-ROM so 
there is only the ATAPI CD-ROM?

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
0
Reply Jack 1/13/2010 3:21:22 AM

Is it possible that the ATAPI CD is sitting on the secondary controller
and might it work as primary master?

My personal choice would be to find a replacement for the failing SCSI
but that has more to do with my experience with them.


0
Reply edfair 1/13/2010 3:38:48 AM

On 01/11/10 08:44 pm, Cameo wrote:

> The following pic shows the available boot sequences. What I find
> strange is that none of the boot sequences start with "A,CDROM.*" or
> "CDROM,A,*" which would be more logical than the other two sequences
> containing CDROM.
>
> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfNGNzdmM3ZmZk&hl=en

I'm surprised that there is no option that includes both CDROM and SCSI, 
nor even an A, CDROM ... option.
Is your BIOS the latest one for that motherboard? A later BIOS might 
have additional options.

> By the way, I think the SCSI boot option might be applying in cases
> where the SCSI controller does not have a built-in BIOS. However, the
> CDROM option definitely applies to drives on the EIDE bus.

>> Disabling the SCSI controller's BIOS is a last resort
>> (since it may be hard to re-enable)
>> but perhaps it has a choice to UN-check for boot support.
>
> I'm not even sure how to disable it in the BIOS. It doesn't seem to be
> an option that I can see. So I might have to remove the SCSI adapter
> itself which I hesitate as almost every time I open the case I enounter
> some loose contact problems afterwards. This time the PC has been
> working solidly for over a year without having to touch anything inside
> the case. It would be only after exhausting all other (soft) options.

Ctrl-C (or Ctrl-N, I think, on some) right after the motherboard's BIOS 
report is often the way to get into the SCSI BIOS of a 
BusLogic/LSILogic/Tekram adapter. There could be an option to make it 
unable to boot from the SCSI CD-ROM drive; I am sure that there is on my 
DC-390U3W. And again, how recent is the SCSI BIOS?

Perce
0
Reply Percival 1/13/2010 5:36:31 PM

"Percival P. Cassidy" <Nobody@NotMyISP.net> wrote in message 
news:hil08q$l9a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Ctrl-C (or Ctrl-N, I think, on some) right after the motherboard's 
> BIOS report is often the way to get into the SCSI BIOS of a 
> BusLogic/LSILogic/Tekram adapter. There could be an option to make it 
> unable to boot from the SCSI CD-ROM drive; I am sure that there is on 
> my DC-390U3W. And again, how recent is the SCSI BIOS?

I can get into the SCSI BIOS without any problem after the mobo BIOS 
with an F2 or F6 key press. What I can try is to disable the scanning of 
the SCSI CD-ROM drive and see if that helps. There is no option to 
actually disabling the SCSI BIOS, except maybe disabling the scanning of 
the controller itself, but then how would I get it back? I'll also try 
to find a more recent SCSI BIOS from Tekram and report back later.

By the way, according to the mobo manual those D, E and F hard drives in 
the boot sequences apply for drives that might be on the primary and 
secondary EIDE buses as master and slave drives. 

0
Reply Cameo 1/13/2010 7:31:54 PM

"edfair" <edfair.44q7v3@no.email.invalid> wrote:
> Is it possible that the ATAPI CD is sitting on the secondary 
> controller
> and might it work as primary master?

   I doubt it because the ATAPI drive works fine once the PC is booted.

> My personal choice would be to find a replacement for the failing SCSI
> but that has more to do with my experience with them.

   I don't think it's failing because this is how it always worked since 
I put that ATAPI drive in it. I just didn't care that I couldn't boot 
with it as long as I could with the SCSI CD/DVD drive. But lately that 
drive started working unreliably, so I decided to take a serious look at 
why the ATAPI drive cannot boot. Apparently removing the SCSI CD/DVD 
drive from the SCSI bus scan does not help recognizing the ATAPI drive 
during bootup.

    By the way, I checked my motherboard's BIOS version and it is the 
very last one the manufacturer issued for it. I also checked the SCSI 
adapter's BIOS which is NOT the latest. Unfortunately since I bought 
that adapter, Tekram was bought up by another company which does not 
have support web site for BIOS and drivers. There are a bunch of other, 
independent web sites that claim to carry the more recent BIOS versions, 
but when I checked a few ones, I noticed that their BIOS *.bin file was 
only 32K size even though the one that is loaded right now in the 
adapter is 64K. So I don't trust those independent sites. The last thing 
I want is to irreversibly screw up that adapter. 

0
Reply Cameo 1/14/2010 6:22:17 AM

On 01/14/10 01:22 am, Cameo wrote:

>> Is it possible that the ATAPI CD is sitting on the secondary controller
>> and might it work as primary master?
>
> I doubt it because the ATAPI drive works fine once the PC is booted.
>
>> My personal choice would be to find a replacement for the failing SCSI
>> but that has more to do with my experience with them.
>
> I don't think it's failing because this is how it always worked since I
> put that ATAPI drive in it. I just didn't care that I couldn't boot with
> it as long as I could with the SCSI CD/DVD drive. But lately that drive
> started working unreliably, so I decided to take a serious look at why
> the ATAPI drive cannot boot. Apparently removing the SCSI CD/DVD drive
> from the SCSI bus scan does not help recognizing the ATAPI drive during
> bootup.
>
> By the way, I checked my motherboard's BIOS version and it is the very
> last one the manufacturer issued for it. I also checked the SCSI
> adapter's BIOS which is NOT the latest. Unfortunately since I bought
> that adapter, Tekram was bought up by another company which does not
> have support web site for BIOS and drivers. There are a bunch of other,
> independent web sites that claim to carry the more recent BIOS versions,
> but when I checked a few ones, I noticed that their BIOS *.bin file was
> only 32K size even though the one that is loaded right now in the
> adapter is 64K. So I don't trust those independent sites. The last thing
> I want is to irreversibly screw up that adapter.

AFAIK, Tekram adapters with a number part ending in zero (disregarding 
suffixes such as U2x, U3x, U4x) used chips by BusLogic, which later 
became LSILogic  -- one of the big names in SCSI devices. (The ones 
ending in 5 are another story, and I have seen recommendations to avoid 
them.)

I flashed my U3W's BIOS with a "generic" LSILogic one with no ill effects.

I know nothing about new ownership of Tekram, but it does seem strange 
that the "Support" menu item is unclickable.

Perce

0
Reply Percival 1/14/2010 2:31:26 PM

"Percival P. Cassidy" <Nobody@NotMyISP.net> wrote in message 
news:hin9pn$9qe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> AFAIK, Tekram adapters with a number part ending in zero (disregarding 
> suffixes such as U2x, U3x, U4x) used chips by BusLogic, which later 
> became LSILogic  -- one of the big names in SCSI devices. (The ones 
> ending in 5 are another story, and I have seen recommendations to 
> avoid them.)

Indeed, it uses the 53C895 chip, but I'm not sure what you were implying 
with the BusLogic brand. Sounds like a bad news though you're not saying 
why.

> I flashed my U3W's BIOS with a "generic" LSILogic one with no ill 
> effects.

Did you gain anything with the new flash?

> I know nothing about new ownership of Tekram, but it does seem strange 
> that the "Support" menu item is unclickable.

Actually, I found the following Tekram site in Taiwan that seems to have 
some links to BIOS downloads, but in mainland China. Those links don't 
work but it's probably for the better because I'm not sure I would trust 
Chinese sites with downloading anything.

http://www.tekram.com.tw/SoftwareUpdate.ASP?Product=DC-390U2_Series

By the way, I need to correct something I wrote earlier about the 
32K/64K BIOS size issue. The 64 K size seems to exist only with the BIOS 
that came on the original Tekram install diskette (Ver. 3.02.) Right now 
I am running Ver. 3.20 and that apparently came in 32K size as I was 
able to find it in an obscure directory. (It's been almost 10 years 
since that BIOS update.) The only thing that comes to mind about this 
BIOS size discrepancy is that though the full BIOS may be 64K in the 
form of two 32K pages, but a BIOS update can update only half of it. 
Thus the 32K size in the update version. That would also explain why a 
new flash utility comes with each BIOS update. Does this sound 
reasonable?

I do have a newer, version 3.23, that I must have saved in the same 
obscure directory years ago from the Tekram site but I never got around 
flashing it. That is also 32K size. Judging from what I was able to see 
on Internet searches, the latest version out there is ver. 3.26 which I 
found but I'm not sure if I could trust it because it has the an odd 
size of 33K. 

0
Reply Cameo 1/14/2010 7:51:59 PM

On 01/14/10 02:51 pm, Cameo wrote:

>> AFAIK, Tekram adapters with a number part ending in zero (disregarding
>> suffixes such as U2x, U3x, U4x) used chips by BusLogic, which later
>> became LSILogic -- one of the big names in SCSI devices. (The ones
>> ending in 5 are another story, and I have seen recommendations to
>> avoid them.)

> Indeed, it uses the 53C895 chip, but I'm not sure what you were implying
> with the BusLogic brand. Sounds like a bad news though you're not saying
> why.

I meant Tekram model numbers ending in 5, which I have been told use 
chips other than BusLogic/LSILogic.

>> I flashed my U3W's BIOS with a "generic" LSILogic one with no ill
>> effects.
>
> Did you gain anything with the new flash?

Not that I recall, but I was trying to solve a problem that I mistakenly 
thought was a problem with the SCSI adapter but turned out to have an 
entirely different cause.

>> I know nothing about new ownership of Tekram, but it does seem strange
>> that the "Support" menu item is unclickable.
>
> Actually, I found the following Tekram site in Taiwan that seems to have
> some links to BIOS downloads, but in mainland China. Those links don't
> work but it's probably for the better because I'm not sure I would trust
> Chinese sites with downloading anything.
>
> http://www.tekram.com.tw/SoftwareUpdate.ASP?Product=DC-390U2_Series

Many (most?) of the Taiwanese companies manufacture in China or 
elsewhere these days as wages in Taiwan become sufficient for people to 
live on. No language barrier for Mainland China and most Taiwanese.

If it's an official Tekram Web site, I'd say it should be safe.

> By the way, I need to correct something I wrote earlier about the
> 32K/64K BIOS size issue. The 64 K size seems to exist only with the BIOS
> that came on the original Tekram install diskette (Ver. 3.02.) Right now
> I am running Ver. 3.20 and that apparently came in 32K size as I was
> able to find it in an obscure directory. (It's been almost 10 years
> since that BIOS update.) The only thing that comes to mind about this
> BIOS size discrepancy is that though the full BIOS may be 64K in the
> form of two 32K pages, but a BIOS update can update only half of it.
> Thus the 32K size in the update version. That would also explain why a
> new flash utility comes with each BIOS update. Does this sound reasonable?
>
> I do have a newer, version 3.23, that I must have saved in the same
> obscure directory years ago from the Tekram site but I never got around
> flashing it. That is also 32K size. Judging from what I was able to see
> on Internet searches, the latest version out there is ver. 3.26 which I
> found but I'm not sure if I could trust it because it has the an odd
> size of 33K.

Maybe that is a function of the file system used by the machine where 
it's stored.

Are you sure there's no option in the SCSI BIOS to prevent the machien 
from trying to boot from the SCSI CD-ROM? And what happens if there's no 
CD in that drive? Doesn't it just go on to the next drive on the list?

Perce
0
Reply Percival 1/14/2010 8:27:20 PM

Kinda sounds like you need to either find a more reliable SCSI unit or a
replacement controller that allows you to disable the boot capabilities
from the SCSI controller.

My experience has been primarily with Adaptec 2940s and later SCO stuff
recently and booting off the SCSI bus. The Tekram stuff I worked with
was probably 14 or 15 years ago, and I don't recall ever using a CD with
them. 

Sorry I've been no help.


0
Reply edfair 1/15/2010 4:00:17 AM

"Percival P. Cassidy" <Nobody@NotMyISP.net> wrote in message 
news:hinul1$p0q$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Indeed, it uses the 53C895 chip, but I'm not sure what you were 
>> implying
>> with the BusLogic brand. Sounds like a bad news though you're not 
>> saying
>> why.
>
> I meant Tekram model numbers ending in 5, which I have been told use 
> chips other than BusLogic/LSILogic.

I know that's what you meant. I was just trying to confirm that my 
adapter also uses an LSI chip Otherwise my system recognizes the adapter 
not as Tekram, but as LSI Logic 8951u/8952u card.

> Many (most?) of the Taiwanese companies manufacture in China or 
> elsewhere these days as wages in Taiwan become sufficient for people 
> to live on. No language barrier for Mainland China and most Taiwanese.
>
> If it's an official Tekram Web site, I'd say it should be safe.

OK, but the link to the mainland Chinese download site does not work. 
I'm not sure if it's temporary or permanent.

> Maybe that is a function of the file system used by the machine where 
> it's stored.
>
> Are you sure there's no option in the SCSI BIOS to prevent the machien 
> from trying to boot from the SCSI CD-ROM? And what happens if there's 
> no CD in that drive? Doesn't it just go on to the next drive on the 
> list?

I checked and rechecked, but could not see it.
By the way, I did get an LSI BIOS from their web site and it flashed all 
right. It also booted fine except with some error msg about not being 
able to save in the nonvolatile memory and reverting to the default. I 
could not boot from the ATAPI drive with this LSI BIOS either. So I 
reverted back to the Tekram 3.23 BIOS that at list gives me more 
configurability. 

0
Reply Cameo 1/15/2010 4:48:48 AM

Cameo wrote:
> I checked and rechecked, but could not see it.
> By the way, I did get an LSI BIOS from their web site and it flashed all 
> right. It also booted fine except with some error msg about not being 
> able to save in the nonvolatile memory and reverting to the default. I 
> could not boot from the ATAPI drive with this LSI BIOS either. So I 
> reverted back to the Tekram 3.23 BIOS that at list gives me more 
> configurability.

Frankly, I think you are barking up the wrong tree when you try to 
upgrade the Tekram SCSI controller firmware.  The system IS trying to 
boot off the SCSI CD now, right?  So how could upgrading that firmware 
help the ATAPI CD-ROM boot? It has to be a motherboard issue, if you ask 
me.  And if removing the SCSI CD-ROM didn't allow the ATAPI unit to boot 
(and you should try this just to see, not a permanent thing), then that 
motherboard isn't going to boot off it no matter what.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
0
Reply Jack 1/15/2010 10:59:30 AM

"Jack Bauer" <jb@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
news:hiphpg$2dak$1@adenine.netfront.net...
> Frankly, I think you are barking up the wrong tree when you try to 
> upgrade the Tekram SCSI controller firmware.  The system IS trying to 
> boot off the SCSI CD now, right?  So how could upgrading that firmware 
> help the ATAPI CD-ROM boot? It has to be a motherboard issue, if you 
> ask me.  And if removing the SCSI CD-ROM didn't allow the ATAPI unit 
> to boot (and you should try this just to see, not a permanent thing), 
> then that motherboard isn't going to boot off it no matter what.

Well, you might be right, especially after what I've read in one of the 
LSI README file before I tried that BIOS. The document was saying this:

"The SDMS SCSI BIOS provides support for the BIOS Boot Specification 
(BBS),
which allows you to choose which device to boot from by selecting the 
priority.

To use this feature, the system BIOS must also be compatible with the 
BBS. If
your system supports the BBS, then you will use the system BIOS setup 
menu to
select the boot and drive order. In the system BIOS setup, the Boot 
Connection
Devices menu appears with a list of available boot options."

So, as the LSI BIOS didn't work for me either, it indeed might be the 
motherboard's BIOS not conforming to this BBS standard that would allow 
both BIOSes "talking" to each other. I am just about at end of the rope 
on this issue.

0
Reply Cameo 1/15/2010 8:27:05 PM

Have you considered replacing the SCSI controller?  I know some Adaptec
stuff from the time of the 2940s allow you to control the boot
capability of CDs on the bus, forcing the ATAPI drive to be active.

It has been a while but I don't recall any issues pulling drives off
other controllers and dropping them onto Adaptecs except for the usual
things Unix complains about when you change the boot devices.


0
Reply edfair 1/16/2010 3:39:26 AM

At Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:39:26 -0600 edfair <edfair.44vwmx@no.email.invalid> wrote:

> 
> 
> Have you considered replacing the SCSI controller?  I know some Adaptec
> stuff from the time of the 2940s allow you to control the boot
> capability of CDs on the bus, forcing the ATAPI drive to be active.
> 
> It has been a while but I don't recall any issues pulling drives off
> other controllers and dropping them onto Adaptecs except for the usual
> things Unix complains about when you change the boot devices.

The 'fake' CHS addressing of the old *ISA* Adaptecs (aha-15xx) are
incompatible with the newer *PCI* Adaptecs (aha-29xxx).  Note these
issues only relate to hard drives and not to CD-ROMs.  CD-ROMs use a
different SCSI command set protocol, which is the same across all SCSI
HBAs.

> 
> 
>                                                                                               

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Download the Model Railroad System
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows
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0
Reply Robert 1/16/2010 2:24:43 PM

"edfair" <edfair.44vwmx@no.email.invalid> wrote in message 
news:edfair.44vwmx@no.email.invalid...
>
> Have you considered replacing the SCSI controller?  I know some 
> Adaptec
> stuff from the time of the 2940s allow you to control the boot
> capability of CDs on the bus, forcing the ATAPI drive to be active.
>
> It has been a while but I don't recall any issues pulling drives off
> other controllers and dropping them onto Adaptecs except for the usual
> things Unix complains about when you change the boot devices.

This Tekram card is an LVD/SE wide Ultra2 controller with that can 
support older Fast SCSI devices as well without degradation of the speed 
of the LVD drives (dual bus system.) That's why I can run both my SCSI 
CD-ROM drive and the LVD hard drives at their maximum transfer speeds. 
To get a corresponding Adaptec controller would probably be too much 
invenstment in such an old PC.

I would have retired it years ago but for two things: first, it was one 
I built from selected components in '99 so I feel special attachment to 
it, and second, it's been rock solid. Those SCSI HDs costed me probably 
more than double of similar non-SCSI HDs, but they sure seem to be much 
more reliable, too. I might also add that for most tasks I need a PC 
for, the system is still pretty adequate. I have a newer notebook for 
tasks needing more resources.

By the way, I wonder when the ATAPI became a standard. A suspect later 
than 2000, when the last BIOS for this Abit motherboard was issued, so 
maybe that's why support for it is not in its BIOS. I added the Plextor 
ATAPI drive to the system several years later. Originally I wanted the 
second CD drive also to be SCSI because the first one was only a reader, 
but by then SCSI CD writers were hard to find as even Plextor was making 
mostly ATAPI drives.

0
Reply Cameo 1/16/2010 6:56:08 PM

Then there is the possibility of throwing a PCI ATAPI controller in
place of the onboard and using the bios from it to control the booting. 
Haven't ever done it, all mine are multiple SCSI controllers (up to 3)
under unix to get what I want to work.


0
Reply edfair 1/19/2010 4:48:35 AM

"edfair" <edfair.450tpi@no.email.invalid> wrote in message 
news:edfair.450tpi@no.email.invalid...
>
> Then there is the possibility of throwing a PCI ATAPI controller in
> place of the onboard and using the bios from it to control the 
> booting.
> Haven't ever done it, all mine are multiple SCSI controllers (up to 3)
> under unix to get what I want to work.

Hm, I don't think I have any open slots left for that. 

0
Reply Cameo 1/19/2010 8:37:46 AM

In article <higk54$jn2$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Cameo
<cameo@cameo.invalid> writes

I can't see your screenshots.  Google Docs says they don't exist.

>By the way, I think the SCSI boot option might be applying in cases 
>where the SCSI controller does not have a built-in BIOS.

No, it's just misleading terminology.  "Boot from SCSI" on older BIOSes
simply means that the motherboard BIOS offers the opportunity to add-in
cards with their own onboard BIOS to boot.  They don't have to be SCSI,
for example you can boot from a network card using BOOTP or TFTP.

This was so confusing for users that the wording used was changed. It's
now something like "Attempt boot from other devices" or "Boot from
external device", "Boot from add-in card", etc.

> However, the 
>CDROM option definitely applies to drives on the EIDE bus.

Agreed.

I know you're reluctant to dive in, but temporarily unplugging the SCSI
card and seeing if the machine will now boot from cdrom is the way
forward.  If it doesn't, the cdrom is most likely bad.

If you don't actually boot from SCSI, then disabling the SCSI BIOS will
make POST quicker.  Windows will still find the card and initialise it
and make the attached devices available.

-- 
(\__/)   
(='.'=)  Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(")  http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png


0
Reply Mike 4/27/2010 4:53:15 AM

In article <hinul1$p0q$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Percival P.
Cassidy <Nobody@NotMyISP.net> writes

>I meant Tekram model numbers ending in 5, which I have been told use 
>chips other than BusLogic/LSILogic.

Certainly one was the AMD PCscsi chip, Am53c975 IIRC.  Nothing wrong
with it, it has good driver support.  I had a Tekram DC395 until
recently, this used Tekram's own chipset.

Tekram changed hands several times.  I have a feeling they may have been
borged into LSI Logic.

To the OP: to be honest, I wouldn't bother flashing the BIOS on the
card.  Adaptec 2940UWs and 29160s are dirt cheap on eBay and will Just
Work.  You may not even need the sacrificial goat and black candles.

-- 
(\__/)   
(='.'=)  Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(")  http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png


0
Reply Mike 4/27/2010 5:05:10 AM

In article <hit2oo$9pn$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Cameo
<cameo@cameo.invalid> writes

>By the way, I wonder when the ATAPI became a standard. A suspect later 
>than 2000, when the last BIOS for this Abit motherboard was issued, so 
>maybe that's why support for it is not in its BIOS.

Unlikely.  If you are offered the option to change the boot order to
something including "CDROM", the BIOS will understand ATAPI.

Hint: in the hard disc detection utility, or during the POST sequence,
if the CDROM is identified by make and model, the BIOS can talk ATAPI.

Finally, as another posted said, make sure the CDROM is attached to the
primary IDE controller if you're only using the one.

> I added the Plextor 
>ATAPI drive to the system several years later. Originally I wanted the 
>second CD drive also to be SCSI because the first one was only a reader, 
>but by then SCSI CD writers were hard to find as even Plextor was making 
>mostly ATAPI drives.

I've just chucked out a load of narrow SCSI stuff, including adapters,
CD-writers and a Plextor 12/20 PleX CD drive that would read anything -
even badly scratched discs that other drives wouldn't touch.

-- 
(\__/)   
(='.'=)  Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(")  http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png


0
Reply Mike 4/27/2010 5:12:06 AM
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