I have a strange problem with my server:

When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
DAC960PJ Raid Controller.

When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
(2500 Mb)
8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
no complaints about the speed.

Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
Only system startup takes 4ever.

Any idea what I'm missing?

What does NVRAM error log show?  are you saying it takes 15 minutes to
POST?

On 23 Feb 2004 06:05:50 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:

>I have a strange problem with my server:
>
>When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
>windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
>It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
>DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
>
>When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
>which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
>(2500 Mb)
>8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
>the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
>system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
>no complaints about the speed.
>
>Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
>Only system startup takes 4ever.
>
>Any idea what I'm missing?

There are no errors at all. And it does not take 15 minutes to post,
the delay starts at the moment the system starts to boot the OS. From
the moment the controller says found 2 system drives till the login
screen takes about 25 minutes total.

Before that it detects all the hardware that's in the machine. (An
onboard SCSI controller with the CD-drive and DLT unit attached).

All the post messages show within reasonable time but when the system
starts to read from the disks to check which OS to boot the delay
starts.

I also inserted an IDE disk and installed an OS onto that disk. When
you boot from the IDE disk. The System is up and running within a few
minutes maybe 2 or so.

I noticed that when you try to boot from the array the disk led's are
blinking out of synch. After about 80% of the bar is filled (in the
starting Windows screen) it jumps to 100% and after that everything is
working fine and the leds are blinking synchronized.

The partition the system tries to boot from is 2 gig big so I don't
think any init limitations are acting up right now (but I'm not sure
though).

I allready tried the following:
1) Tried another Firmware/Bios/Bootblock combo
2) Deleted the 2 system drives and tried to start with only 1
3) Moved the Controller to another PCI slot
4) Made an array with only 2 disks physically attached (removed the
other 4)
5) Removed all Other hardware, even the bay with the CD-drive and DLT
unit.

None solved the problem :o( .


idunno <idunnojack2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<quls30hvdrnvkpo0rs5pf00kngk1o93v0v@4ax.com>...
> What does NVRAM error log show?  are you saying it takes 15 minutes to
> POST?
> 
> On 23 Feb 2004 06:05:50 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:
> 
> >I have a strange problem with my server:
> >
> >When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
> >windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
> >It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
> >DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
> >
> >When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
> >which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
> >(2500 Mb)
> >8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
> >the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
> >system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
> >no complaints about the speed.
> >
> >Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
> >Only system startup takes 4ever.
> >
> >Any idea what I'm missing?

Maurice wrote:
> 
> I have a strange problem with my server:
> 
> When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
> windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
> It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
> DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
> 
> When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
> which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
> (2500 Mb)
> 8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
> the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
> system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
> no complaints about the speed.
> 
> Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
> Only system startup takes 4ever.
> 
> Any idea what I'm missing?

Get hold of the Microsoft utility BOOTVIS.

This may help, depending on how much time it's taking to boot is down to
Windows.

Odie

-- 
RetroData
The Data Recovery Experts
Not cheap.  Just inexpensive.  And effective.
www.retrodata.co.uk

On 27 Feb 2004 00:22:09 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:

>There are no errors at all. And it does not take 15 minutes to post,
>the delay starts at the moment the system starts to boot the OS. From
>the moment the controller says found 2 system drives till the login
>screen takes about 25 minutes total.

quite strange.  You are a better man than me - I don't have your
patience and would have decided to assume after 5 or 10 minutes it was
broken.
>
>Before that it detects all the hardware that's in the machine. (An
>onboard SCSI controller with the CD-drive and DLT unit attached).

good
>
>All the post messages show within reasonable time but when the system
>starts to read from the disks to check which OS to boot the delay
>starts.

then it sounds windows/windows driver related.  However I don' think
the actual mylex driver really comes into play until after the Windows
200 server splash screen is displayed.  <scratching head>

>
>I also inserted an IDE disk and installed an OS onto that disk. When
>you boot from the IDE disk. The System is up and running within a few
>minutes maybe 2 or so.
>
>I noticed that when you try to boot from the array the disk led's are
>blinking out of synch. After about 80% of the bar is filled (in the
>starting Windows screen) it jumps to 100% and after that everything is
>working fine and the leds are blinking synchronized.

do you enable patrol read?  Is sync enbled?  Maybe there are a lot of
media errors and when one drive skips for a media error, the array
desyncs and then needs to resync?  Later on in the disk it is healthy
and there is no penalty.  Just a guess though.
>
>The partition the system tries to boot from is 2 gig big so I don't
>think any init limitations are acting up right now (but I'm not sure
>though).
>
>I allready tried the following:
>1) Tried another Firmware/Bios/Bootblock combo

is the driver from the same software kit?  Maybe windows is using an
older driver for a while, then times out and finds the right one?
Maybe checking out the Device manager in Safe mode or MS support tools
like Odie's recommendation of bootvis?

Did you encounter this problem during windows setup or right after a
fresh install or has this at some point crept into the system?

>2) Deleted the 2 system drives and tried to start with only 1
>3) Moved the Controller to another PCI slot
>4) Made an array with only 2 disks physically attached (removed the
>other 4)
>5) Removed all Other hardware, even the bay with the CD-drive and DLT
>unit.
>
>None solved the problem :o( .

They shouldn't.  It doesn't sound like there is that kind of a
hardware error or hardware/bios/IRQ conflict.
>
>
>idunno <idunnojack2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<quls30hvdrnvkpo0rs5pf00kngk1o93v0v@4ax.com>...
>> What does NVRAM error log show?  are you saying it takes 15 minutes to
>> POST?
>> 
>> On 23 Feb 2004 06:05:50 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:
>> 
>> >I have a strange problem with my server:
>> >
>> >When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
>> >windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
>> >It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
>> >DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
>> >
>> >When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
>> >which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
>> >(2500 Mb)
>> >8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
>> >the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
>> >system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
>> >no complaints about the speed.
>> >
>> >Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
>> >Only system startup takes 4ever.
>> >
>> >Any idea what I'm missing?

Odie <odie_ferrous@athotmaildot.com> wrote in message news:<4040686D.F8C1A87B@athotmaildot.com>...
> Maurice wrote:
> > 
> > I have a strange problem with my server:
> > 
> > When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
> > windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
> > It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
> > DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
> > 
> > When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
> > which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
> > (2500 Mb)
> > 8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
> > the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
> > system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
> > no complaints about the speed.
> > 
> > Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
> > Only system startup takes 4ever.
> > 
> > Any idea what I'm missing?
> 
> Get hold of the Microsoft utility BOOTVIS.
> 
> This may help, depending on how much time it's taking to boot is down to
> Windows.
> 
> Odie

I don't think bootvis will help much in this case because the delay
start even before windows is starting up any drivers. It even takes a
very long time to read the boot.ini file

idunno <idunnojack2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<5991401m37tpuj196aeql21h69ocni7fpb@4ax.com>...
> On 27 Feb 2004 00:22:09 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:
> 
> >There are no errors at all. And it does not take 15 minutes to post,
> >the delay starts at the moment the system starts to boot the OS. From
> >the moment the controller says found 2 system drives till the login
> >screen takes about 25 minutes total.
> 
> quite strange.  You are a better man than me - I don't have your
> patience and would have decided to assume after 5 or 10 minutes it was
> broken.

That's what I did the first x times but I was getting very tired of it
and I just left the machine and went out to play. When I took a look
at it after half an hour I noticed Win2k was ready to log in :D

> >
> >Before that it detects all the hardware that's in the machine. (An
> >onboard SCSI controller with the CD-drive and DLT unit attached).
> 
> good
> >
> >All the post messages show within reasonable time but when the system
> >starts to read from the disks to check which OS to boot the delay
> >starts.
> 
> then it sounds windows/windows driver related.  However I don' think
> the actual mylex driver really comes into play until after the Windows
> 200 server splash screen is displayed.  <scratching head>
> 

I don't think it's driver related because it's allready slow before
anything is loaded. It takes a very long time to read the boot.ini
file and that's before anything is loaded


> >
> >I also inserted an IDE disk and installed an OS onto that disk. When
> >you boot from the IDE disk. The System is up and running within a few
> >minutes maybe 2 or so.
> >
> >I noticed that when you try to boot from the array the disk led's are
> >blinking out of synch. After about 80% of the bar is filled (in the
> >starting Windows screen) it jumps to 100% and after that everything is
> >working fine and the leds are blinking synchronized.
> 
> do you enable patrol read?  Is sync enbled?  Maybe there are a lot of
> media errors and when one drive skips for a media error, the array
> desyncs and then needs to resync?  Later on in the disk it is healthy
> and there is no penalty.  Just a guess though.

To B honest: I have no idea what patrol read is. I also tried to set
all channels to async mode, that didn't solve the problem :( I suppose
none of the drives are damaged because it doesn't matter on which
array you install Windows.

> >
> >The partition the system tries to boot from is 2 gig big so I don't
> >think any init limitations are acting up right now (but I'm not sure
> >though).
> >
> >I allready tried the following:
> >1) Tried another Firmware/Bios/Bootblock combo
> 
> is the driver from the same software kit?  Maybe windows is using an
> older driver for a while, then times out and finds the right one?
> Maybe checking out the Device manager in Safe mode or MS support tools
> like Odie's recommendation of bootvis?
> 
> Did you encounter this problem during windows setup or right after a
> fresh install or has this at some point crept into the system?

I encountered it right after setup. Setup itself when flawless... 
I'll try bootvis but as I wrote I don't think it will make any
difference because the delay starts at the beginning of the bootproces
and looks like it isn't OS related.

The drivers is from the same SW kit...

> 
> >2) Deleted the 2 system drives and tried to start with only 1
> >3) Moved the Controller to another PCI slot
> >4) Made an array with only 2 disks physically attached (removed the
> >other 4)
> >5) Removed all Other hardware, even the bay with the CD-drive and DLT
> >unit.
> >
> >None solved the problem :o( .
> 
> They shouldn't.  It doesn't sound like there is that kind of a
> hardware error or hardware/bios/IRQ conflict.
> >
> >
> >idunno <idunnojack2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<quls30hvdrnvkpo0rs5pf00kngk1o93v0v@4ax.com>...
> >> What does NVRAM error log show?  are you saying it takes 15 minutes to
> >> POST?
> >> 
> >> On 23 Feb 2004 06:05:50 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:
> >> 
> >> >I have a strange problem with my server:
> >> >
> >> >When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
> >> >windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
> >> >It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
> >> >DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
> >> >
> >> >When the system starts up it finds the 2 system drives. Only one of
> >> >which is formatted. At the moment I only have one partition configured
> >> >(2500 Mb)
> >> >8 Gb Disk Bios is configured at the array controller. (in order for
> >> >the bios to boot from the array) After windows is started up (comlete
> >> >system startup takes about 25 minutes) everything is working fine and
> >> >no complaints about the speed.
> >> >
> >> >Even the copy action during the install of windows goes very fast.
> >> >Only system startup takes 4ever.
> >> >
> >> >Any idea what I'm missing?

"Maurice" <mr_oinki@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7683d3ab.0402291401.79e59073@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
> > > windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
> > > It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
> > > DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
> > >
> I don't think bootvis will help much in this case because the delay
> start even before windows is starting up any drivers. It even takes a
> very long time to read the boot.ini file

The initial boot process (ntldr/etc, ntoskrnl and boot devices) is all read by
BIOS Int13. Did you try the debug option in boot.ini? I suggest looking at any
BIOS option that may have been changed.

On 29 Feb 2004 14:09:32 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:

[snip]

>To B honest: I have no idea what patrol read is. 

You can enable patrol read in EZassist, GAM, or SAN array manager.
Enabling Patrol read makes the controller scan the media surface for
defects and remaps in the background according to a specified
schedule.  If you are using a raid level with ECC data, I believe and
data in bad sectors is rebuilt from the redundant data.  Other
manufacturers do this but may use different names.  For example IBM
calls it data scrubbing.  AFAIK they do not make it available for
RAID0 while Mylex/LSI don't care if there is ECC data when fixing the
media errors.

[snip]

Have the latest BIOS?
http://www.fsc-pc.de/support/Description.asp?drvid=9229

There seem to have been some fixes re hang & Win2k issues (but not
yours).

Are you sure your firmware version is not conflicting with your mobo
capabilities re XBDA?
http://www.lsilogic.com/downloads/downloads.do?product=2255

Did you run the dac960 diagnostics?

Have you tried disabling non-essential devices from BIOS like IDE and
serial ports, etc.?  Reserving irq for the RAID controller or clearing
CMOS / ESCD, changing boot order?  (sorry, just grasping for
straws...)

Does the computer behave the same if you boot off a dos boot floppy?
What about with a NTDETECT troubleshooting floppy?

NTDETECT Debug information?
http://www.jsiinc.com/SUBK/tip5200/rh5207.htm

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:<c1tts701k0v@enews1.newsguy.com>...
> "Maurice" <mr_oinki@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7683d3ab.0402291401.79e59073@posting.google.com...
> > > >
> > > > When I start it up it takes up to 15 minutes to show the starting
> > > > windows 2000 Server screen in which you have the option to press F8.
> > > > It's a Fujitsu Siemens Primergy 670-20 Single P3-600 with a mylex
> > > > DAC960PJ Raid Controller.
> > > >
> > I don't think bootvis will help much in this case because the delay
> > start even before windows is starting up any drivers. It even takes a
> > very long time to read the boot.ini file
> 
> The initial boot process (ntldr/etc, ntoskrnl and boot devices) is all read by
> BIOS Int13. Did you try the debug option in boot.ini? I suggest looking at any
> BIOS option that may have been changed.

This hint pointed me somewhat in the right direction..
Debug messages didn't generate anything usefull but I found some
interting options searching for modifying boot.ini

I disabled the SCSI BIOS (again) reinstalled Win2k (and Win2k3 later)
but with ntloader, boot.ini and NTdetect.com at the IDE disk. But this
time I also copied de DAC960NT.sys to the root of the IDE drive and
renamed it to NTBOOTDD.SYS

This time the sytem booted rapidly... even very rapidly.. 

After this I formated a floppy drive and copied the above mentioned
files to it. This also works perfect when I boot from Floppy... I
wander what will happen when I enable the controller BIOS again and
disable the IDE disc.

2morrow I'm free but the day after I might try it again. The problem
is that you have to reinstall after you change the disk BIOS Option
are: 2 Gig, 8 Gig & Disabled.

On 2 Mar 2004 17:29:15 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:

>> The initial boot process (ntldr/etc, ntoskrnl and boot devices) is all read by
>> BIOS Int13. Did you try the debug option in boot.ini? I suggest looking at any
>> BIOS option that may have been changed.
>
>This hint pointed me somewhat in the right direction..
>Debug messages didn't generate anything usefull but I found some
>interting options searching for modifying boot.ini
>
>I disabled the SCSI BIOS (again) reinstalled Win2k (and Win2k3 later)
>but with ntloader, boot.ini and NTdetect.com at the IDE disk. But this
>time I also copied de DAC960NT.sys to the root of the IDE drive and
>renamed it to NTBOOTDD.SYS
>
>This time the sytem booted rapidly... even very rapidly.. 
>
>After this I formated a floppy drive and copied the above mentioned
>files to it. This also works perfect when I boot from Floppy... I
>wander what will happen when I enable the controller BIOS again and
>disable the IDE disc.
>
>2morrow I'm free but the day after I might try it again. The problem
>is that you have to reinstall after you change the disk BIOS Option
>are: 2 Gig, 8 Gig & Disabled.

Well you already have some options at least as far as work arounds.
But does anyone here understand these symptoms?  Is this problem
BIOS/Firmware or NTDETECT or something else?

idunno <idunnojack2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<05bc405v14j56i0v7lmduj26r1lfltqrf8@4ax.com>...
> On 2 Mar 2004 17:29:15 -0800, mr_oinki@yahoo.com (Maurice) wrote:
> 
> >> The initial boot process (ntldr/etc, ntoskrnl and boot devices) is all read by
> >> BIOS Int13. Did you try the debug option in boot.ini? I suggest looking at any
> >> BIOS option that may have been changed.
> >
> >This hint pointed me somewhat in the right direction..
> >Debug messages didn't generate anything usefull but I found some
> >interting options searching for modifying boot.ini
> >
> >I disabled the SCSI BIOS (again) reinstalled Win2k (and Win2k3 later)
> >but with ntloader, boot.ini and NTdetect.com at the IDE disk. But this
> >time I also copied de DAC960NT.sys to the root of the IDE drive and
> >renamed it to NTBOOTDD.SYS
> >
> >This time the sytem booted rapidly... even very rapidly.. 
> >
> >After this I formated a floppy drive and copied the above mentioned
> >files to it. This also works perfect when I boot from Floppy... I
> >wander what will happen when I enable the controller BIOS again and
> >disable the IDE disc.
> >
> >2morrow I'm free but the day after I might try it again. The problem
> >is that you have to reinstall after you change the disk BIOS Option
> >are: 2 Gig, 8 Gig & Disabled.
> 
> Well you already have some options at least as far as work arounds.
> But does anyone here understand these symptoms?  Is this problem
> BIOS/Firmware or NTDETECT or something else?

I suspect the BIOS of the controller is causing the problems. But I'm
not sure. I tried a few BIOS versions during the process but none
showed any improvement.

At the moment we're busy with the server playing around but as soon as
the next install will take place I'll enable the BIOS again. Till that
time I'll make a few copies of the floppy for "redundacy" :D

Thnx for the help and tips so far.. I'm still very curious if someone
has an explanation for this problem...