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Some Kanguru external hard drive questions

I some some questions. Does anyone have a Kanguru Quicksilver external
hard drive? This is the url which describes it:

http://www.kanguru.com/comboquicksilver.html

There is also the older model:

http://www.kanguru.com/35portable.html

The older model is hotswappable and they say it's 'Multi Interface.'

Why would the newer quicksilver model be better? The older model only
goes up to 250 gig. The newer model goes up to 500 gig. The newer one
seems cheaper because they include the cables. With the older model,
one has to buy the cables separately.

Under the specifications, they say the older model is hotswappable
while they don't say that about the newer quicksilver model. What is
the in depth definition of 'hotswappable'??? Would the newer model have
to be rebooted when it was switched to another computer or after it was
unplugged? Aren't there problems when an external hard drive has to be
rebooted many times?

They say the older model is 'Multi-Interface.' They don't say that
about the new quicksilver model. What do they really mean by
'Multi-Interface'???

The new model says it has "Newly Designed Alloy Case allows for better
heat dissipation." Is that a real advantage or not?

They say the newer model includes "NTI Backup NOW 4 software." Isn't
that software rotten? I've heard bad things about it.

Is another brand of external hard drive better?

Sorry for the simple questions. There is a great deal I do not know.
I'm 18. I'm a senior in high school. If anyone could help me, I would
very much appreciate it.

Christine

0
Christine2006
2/20/2006 7:17:18 AM
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Per Christine2006:
>I some some questions. Does anyone have a Kanguru Quicksilver external
>hard drive? This is the url which describes it:
>
>http://www.kanguru.com/comboquicksilver.html
>
>There is also the older model:
>
>http://www.kanguru.com/35portable.html
>
>The older model is hotswappable and they say it's 'Multi Interface.'
>
>Why would the newer quicksilver model be better? The older model only
>goes up to 250 gig. The newer model goes up to 500 gig. The newer one
>seems cheaper because they include the cables. With the older model,
>one has to buy the cables separately.

What is the intended use?

I've got a couple of Kanguru's older 5.25" models that I use for rotating
backups between work and home.

Supposedly their drives are more shock-resistant than regular drives.  In
support of this, I note caveats on my two ready-made external USB drives to the
effect of "this drive is not designed to be portable".

Other than the supposed shock-resistance, though, there doesn't seem much reason
for me to have gotten the Kangurus as opposed to spending fifty dollars on a
generic USB2 wrapper and putting any old IDE drive into it.

Maybe somebody who knows can comment on the shock-resistance aspect...
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/20/2006 2:05:26 PM
Christine2006 wrote:

Hi -

I've bought some CDROM duplicators from Kanguru before, they're a pretty good outfit.
Don't have any direct experience with their USB drives though.

> Under the specifications, they say the older model is hotswappable
> while they don't say that about the newer quicksilver model. What is
> the in depth definition of 'hotswappable'??? 

 From the product info, looks like they both are.
Hotswappable is a loose term in this business, but it usually refers to the device driver treating 
the disks as removable.  This allows the operating system to flush any waiting data to the drive and 
then allow it to be disconnected.

> Would the newer model have
> to be rebooted when it was switched to another computer or after it was
> unplugged? Aren't there problems when an external hard drive has to be
> rebooted many times?

Actually, the term rebooting applies to the computer itself, and not the drive.
The 3.5" drives are usually rated for so many hours running time (100,000+ hrs)
and so many start-stop cycles (50,000+) For modern drives, this is waaay longer than most people 
will keep the devices.  So it's usually not a big deal.   See this page for Hitachi examples:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k500/7k500.htm

> They say the older model is 'Multi-Interface.' They don't say that
> about the new quicksilver model. What do they really mean by
> 'Multi-Interface'???

Kanguru uses this term for 2 classes of external drives.
The one you mention allows for USB, FireWire, PCMCIA, & Parallel (the other is EIDE).
Of these the Parallel and PCMICA are quite old, and most people would never use them. Since Apple 
decided to terminate further development of FireWire after FW-800, it can be considered 
near-obsolete as well.  Unless you plan to connect to an older computer that has only this type of 
connector, then I would avoid this model.   More interesting (and future-proof) would be their newer 
models with USB and SATA ports:  http://www.kanguru.com/qs35sata.html


> The new model says it has "Newly Designed Alloy Case allows for better
> heat dissipation." Is that a real advantage or not?

Yes, actually it can be.  I have several similar devices with plastic cases and they can act as a 
heat trap.  The drive gets very hot inside, as the plastic does not conduct the heat very well, and 
the case is too small to include a fan.  The aluminium ones are much better in this regard.  But it 
depends on how you plan to use the drive, for how long, and where it is located.


> They say the newer model includes "NTI Backup NOW 4 software." Isn't
> that software rotten? I've heard bad things about it.

Sorry, I have no experience with that product, so can offer no comments.

> Is another brand of external hard drive better?

Everybody seems to have favorites, the performance folks seem to like LaCie:
http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10036

As Pete mentioned, some people prefer to choose their own favorite disk drive, and then put it in a 
generic case with USB interface.  Others like to buy a complete unit with all the cables, power 
supply, etc. from the vendor.  The real issue from my experience is how you plan to protect your 
data.  Even the best 200+G shock-resistant drive will eventually fail (or get lost, or stolen).  You 
need to have a good backup method, and USE IT.

> I'm 18. I'm a senior in high school. 

You've got the right level of vendor scepticism,
and you were able to navigate to the right newsgroups,
so I'd say you are well above the average bear.. <g>

Eric


0
Eric
2/20/2006 8:59:10 PM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:

> Maybe somebody who knows can comment on the shock-resistance aspect...

A mythology.
The basic resistance to shock (please define in measurable terms a 
shock) is designed into the piece of hardware. There is (almost) NO 
external enclosure that will improve on the basic design.
Example: In a VERY comfortable car you put on the seat beside you an 
accelerometer and traveling on normal roads you arrive someplace to 
discover that the accelerometer is damaged.
Reading the specs you discover that it is designed to accept 100G 1/2ms 
shocks. "But, the car has springs, shock absorbers, seat cushions, air 
in tyres and so on.. where did 100g's come from?".
And then you measure, supprise!!! >100G's all over the place.
The tyres with the air, the springs, the hydraulic shock absorbers, the 
foam cushions react to the little pebbles on road and the tyres design 
like a solid, so the shocks are distributed all the time.
(from personal experience circa 1963, and physics have not changed since).

HTH

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.

0
Stanislaw
2/20/2006 9:33:17 PM
Eric.Jones wrote:

....

> The 3.5" drives are usually rated for so many hours running time 
> (100,000+ hrs)

Just a nit, but you'll be hard-pressed to find any modern drive with a 
rated service life greater than 5 years (about 43,830 hours).  Don't be 
confused by the rated mean-time-between-failure (MTBF) value, which can 
often be something approaching or exceeding 1,000,000 hours:  that 
figure is a purely mathematical construct used to predict the 
*likelihood* of drive failure during a given time period, and has 
nothing whatsoever to do with the drive's actual service life (at least 
beyond the fact that it will exceed the service life by a large margin).

- bill
0
Bill
2/20/2006 9:51:43 PM
Per Stanislaw Flatto:
>The basic resistance to shock (please define in measurable terms a 
>shock) is designed into the piece of hardware. There is (almost) NO 
>external enclosure that will improve on the basic design.

I didn't state it correctly.

What I meant to say was that the disk drive within was purportedly designed to
endure more/greater shock than the average bare IDE drive that one finds on the
shelf at CompUSA.

The problem I have with that assertion is my recollection of various disk drive
tests I've read long ago where part of the test involved dropping the drive
and/or PC so-and-so-many inches onto the desk while the drive was running -
seemingly an insult far in excess of anything I'd inflict by just putting the
thing in my briefcase and taking it to work...
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/20/2006 10:58:14 PM
Eric.Jones wrote:
> Christine2006 wrote:
>
> Hi -
>

Hi Eric

> I've bought some CDROM duplicators from Kanguru before, they're a pretty good outfit.
> Don't have any direct experience with their USB drives though.
>
> > Under the specifications, they say the older model is hotswappable
> > while they don't say that about the newer quicksilver model. What is
> > the in depth definition of 'hotswappable'???
>
>  From the product info, looks like they both are.

Why wouldn't they say they both are?

> Hotswappable is a loose term in this business, but it usually refers to the device driver treating
> the disks as removable.  This allows the operating system to flush any waiting data to the drive and
> then allow it to be disconnected.
>

I'm wondering if it also means that the user has to use the software
they include every time the computer boots up - if the drive had been
disconnected on the previous session. Somebody gave me that impression.
Is that right?

> > Would the newer model have
> > to be rebooted when it was switched to another computer or after it was
> > unplugged? Aren't there problems when an external hard drive has to be
> > rebooted many times?
>
> Actually, the term rebooting applies to the computer itself, and not the drive.

Ok. I was told it meant installing the software, including the drivers,
over and over. Was that wrong?

> The 3.5" drives are usually rated for so many hours running time (100,000+ hrs)
> and so many start-stop cycles (50,000+) For modern drives, this is waaay longer than most people
> will keep the devices.  So it's usually not a big deal.   See this page for Hitachi examples:
>
> http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k500/7k500.htm
>

Do you mean under the reliability part?

> > They say the older model is 'Multi-Interface.' They don't say that
> > about the new quicksilver model. What do they really mean by
> > 'Multi-Interface'???
>
> Kanguru uses this term for 2 classes of external drives.
> The one you mention allows for USB, FireWire, PCMCIA, & Parallel (the other is EIDE).
> Of these the Parallel and PCMICA are quite old, and most people would never use them. Since Apple
> decided to terminate further development of FireWire after FW-800, it can be considered
> near-obsolete as well.

I'm confused. I hadn't heard that. Isn't firewire better than USB? I
always thought it was. Why would firewire be obsolete because of Apple
when most users don't use Apple?

> Unless you plan to connect to an older computer that has only this type of
> connector, then I would avoid this model.

Why would you avoid the older model?

My problem is that from the specifications pages, they give the
impression that the older model has some important features that the
new model doesn't have. They say the older model is multi-interface and
hotswappable. Ok, maybe the new model is hotswappable. But, is it
possible the new model won't work with a Pentium 3? I'm wondering how
much they are not saying. For example, with their DVD burners, they
don't tell you beforehand that you have to buy Nero software too.

> More interesting (and future-proof) would be their newer
> models with USB and SATA ports:  http://www.kanguru.com/qs35sata.html
>

I have a problem with it. I have 2 computers. One is Pentium 4 and the
other is Pentium 3. I don't think the P3 has SATA ports. I could use it
for USB but I've been told firewire is better. Also, it doesn't say
it's hotswappable. Wouldn't that cause problems?

>
> > The new model says it has "Newly Designed Alloy Case allows for better
> > heat dissipation." Is that a real advantage or not?
>
> Yes, actually it can be.  I have several similar devices with plastic cases and they can act as a
> heat trap.  The drive gets very hot inside, as the plastic does not conduct the heat very well, and
> the case is too small to include a fan.  The aluminium ones are much better in this regard.  But it
> depends on how you plan to use the drive, for how long, and where it is located.
>

Ok.

>
> > They say the newer model includes "NTI Backup NOW 4 software." Isn't
> > that software rotten? I've heard bad things about it.
>
> Sorry, I have no experience with that product, so can offer no comments.
>
> > Is another brand of external hard drive better?
>
> Everybody seems to have favorites, the performance folks seem to like LaCie:
> http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10036
>

Is Lacie a better choice than Kanguru? With me, Kanguru always works.
I've never used Lacie. But it is tempting. Isn't Kanguru more reliable
than Lacie in the long run?

> As Pete mentioned, some people prefer to choose their own favorite disk drive, and then put it in a
> generic case with USB interface.  Others like to buy a complete unit with all the cables, power
> supply, etc. from the vendor.  The real issue from my experience is how you plan to protect your
> data.  Even the best 200+G shock-resistant drive will eventually fail (or get lost, or stolen).  You
> need to have a good backup method, and USE IT.
>

I agree. I've heard the arguments among people who say that DVD disks
have a short life and those who say they don't. The most troubling
question is how many media should one use to store important data?
There is hard drives, DVD disks, but what else is good as a 3rd and 4th
choice?

> > I'm 18. I'm a senior in high school.
>
> You've got the right level of vendor scepticism,
> and you were able to navigate to the right newsgroups,
> so I'd say you are well above the average bear.. <g>
>

Thanks. But there are many people who know much more than I do.

Christine
 
> Eric

0
Christine2006
2/21/2006 5:36:09 AM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
> >I some some questions. Does anyone have a Kanguru Quicksilver external
> >hard drive? This is the url which describes it:
> >
> >http://www.kanguru.com/comboquicksilver.html
> >
> >There is also the older model:
> >
> >http://www.kanguru.com/35portable.html
> >
> >The older model is hotswappable and they say it's 'Multi Interface.'
> >
> >Why would the newer quicksilver model be better? The older model only
> >goes up to 250 gig. The newer model goes up to 500 gig. The newer one
> >seems cheaper because they include the cables. With the older model,
> >one has to buy the cables separately.
>
> What is the intended use?
>

Use is temporary backups, and possibly one of several long term backups
for important data.

> I've got a couple of Kanguru's older 5.25" models that I use for rotating
> backups between work and home.
>

Isn't that more than 5 years old? Sounds very relaible and durable for
the long term!

> Supposedly their drives are more shock-resistant than regular drives.  In
> support of this, I note caveats on my two ready-made external USB drives to the
> effect of "this drive is not designed to be portable".
>

Aren't they USB 1.1? I've heard backwards compatible. Are they forwards
compatible too? Don't you use USB 2.0 at work?

> Other than the supposed shock-resistance, though, there doesn't seem much reason
> for me to have gotten the Kangurus as opposed to spending fifty dollars on a
> generic USB2 wrapper and putting any old IDE drive into it.
>

Pete, isn't Kanguru more durable long-term than a generic brand?

Christine

> Maybe somebody who knows can comment on the shock-resistance aspect...
> -- 
> PeteCresswell

0
Christine2006
2/21/2006 5:37:59 AM
Bill Todd wrote:
> Eric.Jones wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > The 3.5" drives are usually rated for so many hours running time
> > (100,000+ hrs)
>
> Just a nit, but you'll be hard-pressed to find any modern drive with a
> rated service life greater than 5 years (about 43,830 hours).  Don't be
> confused by the rated mean-time-between-failure (MTBF) value, which can
> often be something approaching or exceeding 1,000,000 hours:  that
> figure is a purely mathematical construct used to predict the
> *likelihood* of drive failure during a given time period, and has
> nothing whatsoever to do with the drive's actual service life (at least
> beyond the fact that it will exceed the service life by a large margin).
>

That's my worry Bill, the long-term life. Is Kanguru more durable than
a Lacie?

Christine

> - bill

0
Christine2006
2/21/2006 5:39:00 AM
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:58:14 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
<x@y.Invalid> wrote:

>Per Stanislaw Flatto:
>>The basic resistance to shock (please define in measurable terms a 
>>shock) is designed into the piece of hardware. There is (almost) NO 
>>external enclosure that will improve on the basic design.
>
>I didn't state it correctly.
>
>What I meant to say was that the disk drive within was purportedly designed to
>endure more/greater shock than the average bare IDE drive that one finds on the
>shelf at CompUSA.
>
>The problem I have with that assertion is my recollection of various disk drive
>tests I've read long ago where part of the test involved dropping the drive
>and/or PC so-and-so-many inches onto the desk while the drive was running -
>seemingly an insult far in excess of anything I'd inflict by just putting the
>thing in my briefcase and taking it to work...


His idea is clearly wrong, contradicted by the majority of
shock absorbtion systems in existence.

ALL external enclosures will in fact reduce the resultant
shock on the drive.  A "good" one will be designed to aborb
more of it.  That may not mean it can be dropped from a few
feet onto concreate while it's running but nevertheless,
anyone who discounts the impact of tires and suspension on
shock has never driven a race-tuned car and compared it to
an old american 1970's boat.  No question about it, there's
a reason why that suspension is there besides tire contact
with the road.
0
kony
2/21/2006 10:07:28 AM
Per Christine2006:
>
>Pete, isn't Kanguru more durable long-term than a generic brand?

That's what I'm trying to determine before shooting my mouth off about how much
cheaper it is to just buy something like an ADA USB2 enclosure at CompuUSA and
stick any old IDE drive into it.

Even if Kanguru is more durable, the question would be "Is the USB2
enclosure/IDE drive durable enough?".

If you can get two or three drives for what one Kanguru costs and the drives are
durable enough I'd say that would be a lot better.   One backup drive is better
than none, but with two you can cycle them back-and-forth between home and work
- or a neighbor's house... anyplace but where they would be at risk in a minor
house fire or destructive break-in.

Three is even better.

If I sound a little paranoid about this, it may be because I've personally seen
a USB2/FireWire card go bad and fry two drives in succession before I caught on
to what was happening...

Also, if you only have one drive and that drive dies on you, you're without
backup until you can get a new one in place.
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/21/2006 1:27:52 PM
Per Christine2006:
>That's my worry Bill, the long-term life. Is Kanguru more durable than
>a Lacie?

Define "long-term".

If it's more than a few years, I'd call it moot.   

Drives keep getting bigger/cheaper/faster and replacing this years 120-gigger
three years from now will be a trivial outlay compared to it's cost today.
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/21/2006 1:30:05 PM
I haven't started using removable disk drives yet, but the Kanguru
models are definitely on my shopping list. According to their web
pile, these drives ship with protective carrying cases. I can find no
other drives that feature this form of protection.

I carry my backup media offsite rather frequently, so a carrying case
(nicely fitted, I hope) seems rather necesary.
-- 
David Arnstein                    |        Have fun with your spams:
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com         |        http://www.bluesecurity.com
0
arnstein
2/21/2006 5:12:15 PM
Christine2006 wrote:

> I'm wondering if it also means that the user has to use the software they include every time the
> computer boots up - if the drive had been disconnected on the previous session. Somebody gave me
> that impression. Is that right?

It's not clear just what type of software is being referred to here.
The basic device driver to talk to the disk would only need to be installed once.
But maybe they were thinking of additional application software, perhaps used to
provide some type of incremental backup tracking or volume management.


>> Actually, the term rebooting applies to the computer itself, and not the drive.
> 
> Ok. I was told it meant installing the software, including the drivers, over and over. Was that
> wrong?

Normally the drivers would only need to be installed once, on each machine that you
planned to connect the drive to.  Then after a reboot, the system will automatically know
to use driver XYZ when it finds device-ID 12345.

>> Since Apple decided to terminate further development of FireWire after FW-800, it can be
>> considered near-obsolete as well.
> 
> I'm confused. I hadn't heard that. Isn't firewire better than USB? I always thought it was. Why
> would firewire be obsolete because of Apple when most users don't use Apple?

Perhaps I spoke a little harshly.. Apple came up with a very good network design with firewire, and
managed to get IEEE 1394 standard blessing. It was far better than the alternatives available at the
time, although Apple originally tried to charge vendors $1.00/port royalty for every device with
firewire.  This pushed a lot of people to look for alternatives, like USB.  Later Apple backed away
from the high license fees, and came out with the FW-800 version.  Thanks to Apple's early adoption
and strong support, firewire seemed to be a winner.  In many ways (multi-channel throughput, error
handling, etc.) it is superior to USB protocols.   But with Apple's recent change of heart,
abandoning PowerPC for Intel, dropping firewire cables with the iPods, one has to wonder..
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/firewires_future_getting_doused_by_apple/

> 
>> Unless you plan to connect to an older computer that has only this type of connector, then I
>> would avoid this model.
> 
> Why would you avoid the older model?

Only in the sense that the other interfaces are not very useful. The drive itself seems to have the
same performance specifications.

>> More interesting (and future-proof) would be their newer models with USB and SATA ports:
>> http://www.kanguru.com/qs35sata.html
>> 
> I have a problem with it. I have 2 computers. One is Pentium 4 and the other is Pentium 3. I
> don't think the P3 has SATA ports. I could use it for USB but I've been told firewire is better.
> Also, it doesn't say it's hotswappable. Wouldn't that cause problems?

That might be a problem with SATA connect.  I don't have any first hand experience with external
SATA.  The system may consider it as a fixed disk, and not allow detaching until after system
shutdown.  As for firewire better than USB, that depends. For a single device on a single port there
will not be a big difference. Kanguru's numbers show a slight advantage for FW, when used for
backing up data.  And certainly for older systems like P3 you probably would have to get an external
interface card in any case, you certainly wouldn't want to run 10x slower via the parallel port.

> 
> Is Lacie a better choice than Kanguru? With me, Kanguru always works. I've never used Lacie. But
> it is tempting. Isn't Kanguru more reliable than Lacie in the long run?

Now we're in the grey zone of personal opinion and experience.  Having no direct experience with
either vendors portable products, I really have no idea which is more reliable.  But this thread
seems to be bringing out lots of useful information, so you have a good base to form your opinions.


> I agree. I've heard the arguments among people who say that DVD disks have a short life and those
> who say they don't. The most troubling question is how many media should one use to store
> important data? There is hard drives, DVD disks, but what else is good as a 3rd and 4th choice?

With the large drive capacities these days, even dual-layer DVD is not adequate. I am currently
using a 3-way HDD system.  The original drive stays in the system, with 1 identical drive as local
backup and 1 same-capacity, different-vendor drive as 3rd-level backup.  The latter 2 are rotated
off-site weekly.  This gives me fast delta copies via rsync, and also a small window of protection
from logical errors (ie. wrong changes/deletes) provided I notice it with the window.


CHeers, Eric
0
Eric
2/21/2006 11:11:40 PM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
> >
> >Pete, isn't Kanguru more durable long-term than a generic brand?
>
> That's what I'm trying to determine before shooting my mouth off about how much
> cheaper it is to just buy something like an ADA USB2 enclosure at CompuUSA and
> stick any old IDE drive into it.
>

Pete, I like your suggestion that I should think about this. I agree
that this really needs to be considered. The way I see it - either way
there are risks. Suppose I buy a couple smaller generic drives. The
risk is that one or both of them will give me problems. I've bought
some generic things before, they fail on me, and I end up buying a
brand name. If I bought the name brand to begin with, I wouldn't have
had the problem to start with. But, if the generics are ok, then I am
better off with 2 generics to cover the risk of one failing. More
below......

> Even if Kanguru is more durable, the question would be "Is the USB2
> enclosure/IDE drive durable enough?".
>
> If you can get two or three drives for what one Kanguru costs and the drives are
> durable enough I'd say that would be a lot better.

Ok, there is the risk that one or all of the generics might fail. Also,
getting cheaper generics doesn't look that easy. I shopped online for a
couple hours and they don't seem to be much cheaper than Kanguru. It
seems Kanguru wants to compete with the generics on price.

> One backup drive is better
> than none, but with two you can cycle them back-and-forth between home and work
> - or a neighbor's house... anyplace but where they would be at risk in a minor
> house fire or destructive break-in.
>
> Three is even better.
>

I agree. Of course, price is something to be considered too. I'm not
made of money - sadly :((  Also, do I want to spend money on this when
I could put that money into something else..?

> If I sound a little paranoid about this,

No, you don't. Be paranoid! Problems can be avoided with some good
paranoia.

> it may be because I've personally seen
> a USB2/FireWire card go bad and fry two drives in succession before I caught on
> to what was happening...
>

That is a real fear. Pete, please think of this and tell me what you
think. Why not buy a new firewire card every 6 months? Then, for
everyday use, use a cheap generic external hard drive. If it gets
fried, put in a new card first, and try a cheap generic drive first to
test it. Then, if the generic works ok, only use the better Kanguru or
Lacie drive occassionally, like once a week, to back up and store
important data. I like your suggestions and warnings and justified
paranoia. If you have a better idea, please tell me. I want to get as
much bang for my money as possible and I want to try and avoid problems
as much as possible too.

> Also, if you only have one drive and that drive dies on you, you're without
> backup until you can get a new one in place.

Good thought. But I think it might be good to have a spare card or two
to change the card first if the drive goes. Do you know if there's a
way to check a card to see if it's bad? If something goes bad, it could
be the drive or the card. Or something else?

Christine

> -- 
> PeteCresswell

0
Christine2006
2/22/2006 7:35:45 AM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
> >That's my worry Bill, the long-term life. Is Kanguru more durable than
> >a Lacie?
>
> Define "long-term".
>
> If it's more than a few years, I'd call it moot.
>

Ok, I see what you mean. But...

> Drives keep getting bigger/cheaper/faster and replacing this years 120-gigger
> three years from now will be a trivial outlay compared to it's cost today.

....suppose prices don't come down that much? And suppose I have less
money to work with in a few years than I do now? If I have something, I
really would like it to last. I want 3 years and more. I want 5 and 10
and even 15. These companies don't have to make junk. They can make
things durable. I want them to.

> -- 
> PeteCresswell

0
Christine2006
2/22/2006 7:37:03 AM
Eric.Jones wrote:
> Christine2006 wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if it also means that the user has to use the software they include every time the
> > computer boots up - if the drive had been disconnected on the previous session. Somebody gave me
> > that impression. Is that right?
>
> It's not clear just what type of software is being referred to here.
> The basic device driver to talk to the disk would only need to be installed once.
> But maybe they were thinking of additional application software, perhaps used to
> provide some type of incremental backup tracking or volume management.
>

I think they meant that the O/S was temperamental and insisted that the
driver be installed each time. Maybe there was an O/S problem for them.
I wondered about that.

>
> >> Actually, the term rebooting applies to the computer itself, and not the drive.
> >
> > Ok. I was told it meant installing the software, including the drivers, over and over. Was that
> > wrong?
>
> Normally the drivers would only need to be installed once, on each machine that you
> planned to connect the drive to.  Then after a reboot, the system will automatically know
> to use driver XYZ when it finds device-ID 12345.
>

Ok. But I've heard about this problem from more than one person. Maybe
there's a Windows bug somewhere causing these problems.

> >> Since Apple decided to terminate further development of FireWire after FW-800, it can be
> >> considered near-obsolete as well.
> >
> > I'm confused. I hadn't heard that. Isn't firewire better than USB? I always thought it was. Why
> > would firewire be obsolete because of Apple when most users don't use Apple?
>
> Perhaps I spoke a little harshly.. Apple came up with a very good network design with firewire, and
> managed to get IEEE 1394 standard blessing. It was far better than the alternatives available at the
> time, although Apple originally tried to charge vendors $1.00/port royalty for every device with
> firewire.  This pushed a lot of people to look for alternatives, like USB.  Later Apple backed away
> from the high license fees, and came out with the FW-800 version.  Thanks to Apple's early adoption
> and strong support, firewire seemed to be a winner.  In many ways (multi-channel throughput, error
> handling, etc.) it is superior to USB protocols.   But with Apple's recent change of heart,
> abandoning PowerPC for Intel, dropping firewire cables with the iPods, one has to wonder..
> http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/firewires_future_getting_doused_by_apple/
>

Ok. Thanks for the url. It's good.

> >
> >> Unless you plan to connect to an older computer that has only this type of connector, then I
> >> would avoid this model.
> >
> > Why would you avoid the older model?
>
> Only in the sense that the other interfaces are not very useful. The drive itself seems to have the
> same performance specifications.
>

Thanks Eric. I might have chosen what I felt was the safer choice anc
chose that older one. If I go with Kanguru, I'll take the newer one. It
is better. I called Kanguru and they too told me that I should choose
the newer one.

> >> More interesting (and future-proof) would be their newer models with USB and SATA ports:
> >> http://www.kanguru.com/qs35sata.html
> >>
> > I have a problem with it. I have 2 computers. One is Pentium 4 and the other is Pentium 3. I
> > don't think the P3 has SATA ports. I could use it for USB but I've been told firewire is better.
> > Also, it doesn't say it's hotswappable. Wouldn't that cause problems?
>
> That might be a problem with SATA connect.  I don't have any first hand experience with external
> SATA.  The system may consider it as a fixed disk, and not allow detaching until after system
> shutdown.  As for firewire better than USB, that depends. For a single device on a single port there
> will not be a big difference. Kanguru's numbers show a slight advantage for FW, when used for
> backing up data.  And certainly for older systems like P3 you probably would have to get an external
> interface card in any case, you certainly wouldn't want to run 10x slower via the parallel port.
>

That's true. But which card is least likely to fail - a USB 2.0 or a
firewire card? This is a problem.

> >
> > Is Lacie a better choice than Kanguru? With me, Kanguru always works. I've never used Lacie. But
> > it is tempting. Isn't Kanguru more reliable than Lacie in the long run?
>
> Now we're in the grey zone of personal opinion and experience.  Having no direct experience with
> either vendors portable products, I really have no idea which is more reliable.  But this thread
> seems to be bringing out lots of useful information, so you have a good base to form your opinions.
>

True. One problem is the Lacie is much more expensive. I wonder if it's
worth the extra money.

>
> > I agree. I've heard the arguments among people who say that DVD disks have a short life and those
> > who say they don't. The most troubling question is how many media should one use to store
> > important data? There is hard drives, DVD disks, but what else is good as a 3rd and 4th choice?
>
> With the large drive capacities these days, even dual-layer DVD is not adequate.

Ok. I am real confused here. Why?

>I am currently
> using a 3-way HDD system.  The original drive stays in the system, with 1 identical drive as local
> backup and 1 same-capacity, different-vendor drive as 3rd-level backup.  The latter 2 are rotated
> off-site weekly.

What brand? Do you use generics?

>This gives me fast delta copies via rsync, and also a small window of protection
> from logical errors (ie. wrong changes/deletes) provided I notice it with the window.
>

I'm not familiar with RAID. Is the system you use better than RAID?

Christine
 
> 
> CHeers, Eric

0
Christine2006
2/22/2006 7:38:11 AM
Per Christine2006:
>Good thought. But I think it might be good to have a spare card or two
>to change the card first if the drive goes. Do you know if there's a
>way to check a card to see if it's bad? If something goes bad, it could
>be the drive or the card. Or something else?

I am unaware of any way to check and I wouldn't worry to much about it - just
structure your work so that it is not a threat.


What I should be doing:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- Burning a set of DVDs annually for the whole sixty gigs

- Burning a couple of DVDs monthly for the 8 gigs or so of
  stuff that's not music or photos.

- Storing those DVDs at a neighbor's or relative's house
-----------------------------------------------------------------

For many people without a lot of photos/music, this option
is probably the best way to go.   It becomes increasingly redundant
with time as you build up many DVDs and stash them in different places.





What actually I do (with about sixty gigs of data):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Keep all data on an external USB2 drive.

2) Make regular incremental backups to three different backup drives:
   
   - Two Kanguru 120's that are alternated between home and work

   - A 300-gig IDE drive wrapped in a USB2 box that's online most of the
     time, and allows more generations of backups before it has to be 
     wiped and the backups begun anew.

3) When my "Data" drive fails:

   a) First try plugging it in to another PC just to confirm that it's 
      really the drive that's bad.
    
   b) Once it's confirmed that the Data drive is bad, I put it aside, 
      buy a new one and attempt a restore from the 300-gigger.

   c) If something goes wrong there (as in the 300-gigger failing), 
      I immediately make copies of the other backup drives using another 
      PC at another location and then come back home with the copies 
      and try to proceed with the restore.   This guards against a bad 
      USB2 card or something else weird with the home PC. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the recovery procedure sounds a little obsessive, well that's just the
way it has to be to really cover yourself.  It will rarely be needed, but
when the day comes believe me: you'll be *really* glad tb covered.

-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/22/2006 2:44:39 PM
Per Christine2006:
>...suppose prices don't come down that much? And suppose I have less
>money to work with in a few years than I do now? If I have something, I
>really would like it to last. I want 3 years and more. I want 5 and 10
>and even 15. These companies don't have to make junk. They can make
>things durable. I want them to.

Stop, rewind....  How much data are we talking about?   I've been going
on as if you had 50 gigs or so.

If you have 4 gigs or less, burning a complete DVD backup every
week/month/quarter (whatever your comfort level with lost data is...)
is the no-brainer.

640 megs or less..... CDs are even cheaper on a disc-by-disc basis.

There are, of course, considerations around DVDs and CDs - like the 
quality of the media and storage conditions.   I've burned audio 
CDs that failed after only a couple of summers in my car - but my
car gets up to well over 100 degrees F when parked in the sun in the
summer....


Good catch on the money aspect, but my feeling is that all PC stuff is
consumable:  it comes and it goes.... more like pencils than socket 
wrenches - and it's evolving at a very high pace.

For instance, I just got a 1-gig flash drive for somebody for their 
birthday.  Paid about $60 for it.   Six months ago, I paid over $60
for a 510-meg SD card for my camera.... and three years ago I paid
almost a hundred bucks for a 64-meg CF card for an earlier camera.

When I bought my first computer (a Macintosh) for about $3,000, I 
paid another $800 for a 20-meg (M-E-G...) hard drive.   The 
name brand three hundred gigger I recently bought for online backup 
set me back less than $120.   Fifteen times the storage for less
than 25% of the price...


-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/22/2006 3:02:23 PM
Per (PeteCresswell):
>Fifteen times the storage for less
>than 25% of the price...

Mea Culpa:  should read fifteen THOUSAND times the storage.

The original drive was 20 megs, not gigs....
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/22/2006 6:24:15 PM
> managed to get IEEE 1394 standard blessing. It was far better than the
>alternatives available at the
> time, although Apple originally tried to charge vendors $1.00/port royalty
for
>every device with
> firewire.

Correct, this was the major issue with 1394. In old days of 1999, the bus was
considered to be IDE replacement (instead of SATA which is much younger then
1394).

It has very good (though complex) protocol, and is very good for storage -
20MB/s USB2 attachment, 27MB/s 1394 attachment of the same portable drive (the
no-name box with Oxford Semiconductor chip inside and the standard ATA Seagate
Barracuda in it).

Nevertheless, this bad policy by Apple effectively killed the thing in favour
of much more primitive USB, which is supported for free by Intel's mobo
chipsets.

> and strong support, firewire seemed to be a winner.  In many ways (multi-
>channel throughput, error
> handling, etc.) it is superior to USB protocols.

Surely. It is not oriented - in USB, you have a host and its childern. In 1394,
you have peers.

>But with Apple's recent change of heart,
> abandoning PowerPC for Intel, dropping firewire cables with the iPods, one
has
>to wonder..

This extremely "closed" policy for Firewire prevented it from capturing the
market in early 2000ies, when there was no SATA or it was in infancy. Now it is
too late.

-- 
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

0
Maxim
2/22/2006 6:29:30 PM
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:02:23 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
<x@y.Invalid> wrote:

>Per Christine2006:
>>...suppose prices don't come down that much? And suppose I have less
>>money to work with in a few years than I do now? If I have something, I
>>really would like it to last. I want 3 years and more. I want 5 and 10
>>and even 15. These companies don't have to make junk. They can make
>>things durable. I want them to.
>
>Stop, rewind....  How much data are we talking about?   I've been going
>on as if you had 50 gigs or so.
>
>If you have 4 gigs or less, burning a complete DVD backup every
>week/month/quarter (whatever your comfort level with lost data is...)
>is the no-brainer.
>
>640 megs or less..... CDs are even cheaper on a disc-by-disc basis.
>
>There are, of course, considerations around DVDs and CDs - like the 
>quality of the media and storage conditions.   I've burned audio 
>CDs that failed after only a couple of summers in my car - but my
>car gets up to well over 100 degrees F when parked in the sun in the
>summer....


If there is only single-digit GB of data, flash memory
becomes a very good option.  Online 'sites such as
newegg.com now have 2GB Secure Digital cards for about $65.
Storage doesn't get much more reliable, I too have had
plenty of seemingly good CDR discs go foul over time and not
just those sitting in a hot car but in reasonably good
storage conditions some of them just go bad and
unfortunately it seems to be (manufacturing) lots of discs
making the best optical storage strategy to make staggered
backups with different brands of media.
0
kony
2/22/2006 6:34:13 PM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
> >Good thought. But I think it might be good to have a spare card or two
> >to change the card first if the drive goes. Do you know if there's a
> >way to check a card to see if it's bad? If something goes bad, it could
> >be the drive or the card. Or something else?
>
> I am unaware of any way to check

Well, one way of checking it would be to try a cheap drive. If it's ok,
then use the bigger more expensive drive.

I wish there was some cheap meter I could buy to check certain cards
for problems. Would it help to buy another fan for inside the PC?

> and I wouldn't worry to much about it - just
> structure your work so that it is not a threat.
>

True.

>
> What I should be doing:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> - Burning a set of DVDs annually for the whole sixty gigs
>
> - Burning a couple of DVDs monthly for the 8 gigs or so of
>   stuff that's not music or photos.
>
> - Storing those DVDs at a neighbor's or relative's house

Pete, what do you think of storing in safe deposit boxes? Or a
fireproof safe in the trunk of a car, or in a basement?

> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> For many people without a lot of photos/music, this option
> is probably the best way to go.   It becomes increasingly redundant
> with time as you build up many DVDs and stash them in different places.
>

Do you mean that it's redundant because you have many copies over time?

>
>
>
>
> What actually I do (with about sixty gigs of data):
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Keep all data on an external USB2 drive.
>
> 2) Make regular incremental backups to three different backup drives:
>
>    - Two Kanguru 120's that are alternated between home and work
>
>    - A 300-gig IDE drive wrapped in a USB2 box that's online most of the
>      time, and allows more generations of backups before it has to be
>      wiped and the backups begun anew.
>
> 3) When my "Data" drive fails:
>
>    a) First try plugging it in to another PC just to confirm that it's
>       really the drive that's bad.
>
>    b) Once it's confirmed that the Data drive is bad, I put it aside,
>       buy a new one and attempt a restore from the 300-gigger.
>
>    c) If something goes wrong there (as in the 300-gigger failing),
>       I immediately make copies of the other backup drives using another
>       PC at another location and then come back home with the copies
>       and try to proceed with the restore.   This guards against a bad
>       USB2 card or something else weird with the home PC.
>

Are you thinking that the problem might be something other than a bad
USB card? For example, the motherboard or another card might have
something wrong with it. I wonder about drives that get fried. Do you
know of any statistics on this? I wonder how often the cause is a bad
USB card? Or how often it's something with the motherboard? Or
something else? If I knew the percentages, it would give me an idea of
the most common cause of drives getting fried. Of course, it would be
good to know how often it's just the drive itself.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> If the recovery procedure sounds a little obsessive, well that's just the
> way it has to be to really cover yourself.  It will rarely be needed, but
> when the day comes believe me: you'll be *really* glad tb covered.
>

Yes, you're right. I want to be very very careful and have myself
covered for many problems. Even in that case, there are still always
problems. I've heard of many people having problems because of
lightning. I always unplug everything if I ever hear lightning. A
friend of mine, her family unplugs every appliance in their house when
there's the slightest sound or sight of lightning.

Christine
 
> -- 
> PeteCresswell

0
Christine2006
2/24/2006 7:43:16 AM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
> >...suppose prices don't come down that much? And suppose I have less
> >money to work with in a few years than I do now? If I have something, I
> >really would like it to last. I want 3 years and more. I want 5 and 10
> >and even 15. These companies don't have to make junk. They can make
> >things durable. I want them to.
>
> Stop, rewind....  How much data are we talking about?   I've been going
> on as if you had 50 gigs or so.
>

I have about 600 gigs. Also, I want to buy something for my younger
brother. He doesn't live with me - sadly :(((((
He has about 800 gigs.

> If you have 4 gigs or less, burning a complete DVD backup every
> week/month/quarter (whatever your comfort level with lost data is...)
> is the no-brainer.
>

True.

> 640 megs or less..... CDs are even cheaper on a disc-by-disc basis.
>

True.

> There are, of course, considerations around DVDs and CDs - like the
> quality of the media and storage conditions.   I've burned audio
> CDs that failed after only a couple of summers in my car - but my
> car gets up to well over 100 degrees F when parked in the sun in the
> summer....
>

Quality of the media - a big topic itself. What brand of DVD disks do
you like the best?

>
> Good catch on the money aspect, but my feeling is that all PC stuff is
> consumable:  it comes and it goes.... more like pencils than socket
> wrenches - and it's evolving at a very high pace.
>

You're right there Pete. But, it will hit a point where it hits a
floor. TVs are not expensive but their price will never fall to one
penny.

> For instance, I just got a 1-gig flash drive for somebody for their
> birthday.  Paid about $60 for it.   Six months ago, I paid over $60
> for a 510-meg SD card for my camera.... and three years ago I paid
> almost a hundred bucks for a 64-meg CF card for an earlier camera.
>
> When I bought my first computer (a Macintosh) for about $3,000, I
> paid another $800 for a 20-meg (M-E-G...) hard drive.   The
> name brand three hundred gigger I recently bought for online backup
> set me back less than $120.   Fifteen times the storage for less
> than 25% of the price...
>

That's true. But things are still expensive. When you add up all the
things you need to add to a computer, it adds up and up. You're right
that prices are falling but they'll only fall so far.

Christine

 
> 
> -- 
> PeteCresswell

0
Christine2006
2/24/2006 7:44:33 AM
kony wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:02:23 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
> <x@y.Invalid> wrote:
>
> >Per Christine2006:
> >>...suppose prices don't come down that much? And suppose I have less
> >>money to work with in a few years than I do now? If I have something, I
> >>really would like it to last. I want 3 years and more. I want 5 and 10
> >>and even 15. These companies don't have to make junk. They can make
> >>things durable. I want them to.
> >
> >Stop, rewind....  How much data are we talking about?   I've been going
> >on as if you had 50 gigs or so.
> >
> >If you have 4 gigs or less, burning a complete DVD backup every
> >week/month/quarter (whatever your comfort level with lost data is...)
> >is the no-brainer.
> >
> >640 megs or less..... CDs are even cheaper on a disc-by-disc basis.
> >
> >There are, of course, considerations around DVDs and CDs - like the
> >quality of the media and storage conditions.   I've burned audio
> >CDs that failed after only a couple of summers in my car - but my
> >car gets up to well over 100 degrees F when parked in the sun in the
> >summer....
>
>
> If there is only single-digit GB of data, flash memory
> becomes a very good option.  Online 'sites such as
> newegg.com now have 2GB Secure Digital cards for about $65.
> Storage doesn't get much more reliable, I too have had
> plenty of seemingly good CDR discs go foul over time and not
> just those sitting in a hot car but in reasonably good
> storage conditions some of them just go bad and
> unfortunately it seems to be (manufacturing) lots of discs
> making the best optical storage strategy to make staggered
> backups with different brands of media.

That's the problem Kony. What brand of DVD disks do you like the best?
This is a big topic.

Christine

0
Christine2006
2/24/2006 7:45:38 AM
Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
> > managed to get IEEE 1394 standard blessing. It was far better than the
> >alternatives available at the
> > time, although Apple originally tried to charge vendors $1.00/port royalty
> for
> >every device with
> > firewire.
>
> Correct, this was the major issue with 1394. In old days of 1999, the bus was
> considered to be IDE replacement (instead of SATA which is much younger then
> 1394).
>
> It has very good (though complex) protocol, and is very good for storage -
> 20MB/s USB2 attachment, 27MB/s 1394 attachment of the same portable drive (the
> no-name box with Oxford Semiconductor chip inside and the standard ATA Seagate
> Barracuda in it).
>
> Nevertheless, this bad policy by Apple effectively killed the thing in favour
> of much more primitive USB, which is supported for free by Intel's mobo
> chipsets.
>
> > and strong support, firewire seemed to be a winner.  In many ways (multi-
> >channel throughput, error
> > handling, etc.) it is superior to USB protocols.
>
> Surely. It is not oriented - in USB, you have a host and its childern. In 1394,
> you have peers.
>
> >But with Apple's recent change of heart,
> > abandoning PowerPC for Intel, dropping firewire cables with the iPods, one
> has
> >to wonder..
>
> This extremely "closed" policy for Firewire prevented it from capturing the
> market in early 2000ies, when there was no SATA or it was in infancy. Now it is
> too late.
>

Maxim, are you really sure it's too late? Many people like firewire.
Won't the demand of people keep firewire alive? I know SATA is a threat
but TV didn't make radio obsolete.

Christine


> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com

0
Christine2006
2/24/2006 7:46:33 AM
Per Christine2006:

>Pete, what do you think of storing in safe deposit boxes? Or a
>fireproof safe in the trunk of a car, or in a basement?

I don't like the car because of temperature in the summer.  If you already
have a safe deposit box, that would seem ideal - good temp control.

Basement, dunno - humidity, moisture, fungus...  also presumably
in the same dwelling as the original.

I stash some of mine in a neighbor's house.   I take care of their
cat when they're away and they store my backups.


>Do you mean that it's redundant because you have many copies over time?

Yes.  More copies = better.  More copies in more places = even better.


>Are you thinking that the problem might be something other than a bad
>USB card?  If I knew the percentages, it would give me an idea of
>the most common cause of drives getting fried. Of course, it would be
>good to know how often it's just the drive itself.

To me, it all boils down to:

1) Stuff happens
2) Sometimes it's something in the PC that will cook the next drive.

I don't know (or even want to know...) enough to second guess/predict
anything - so I just tailor my handling of the situation to work around
it.    The lightning thing you describe below is an example.   With dialup,
I'd guess that a lightning hit on the phone line could do something
I wouldn't like.  

But it's back to "stuff happens".   I'm not suggesting that somebody turn their
whole life inside-out just because of something that has a one in two million
chance of happening;  but if most eventualities can be dealt with by just
exercising a little discipline at restore time and having a couple of extra
backup copies in different places, that seems reasonable to me.

>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> If the recovery procedure sounds a little obsessive, well that's just the
>> way it has to be to really cover yourself.  It will rarely be needed, but
>> when the day comes believe me: you'll be *really* glad tb covered.
>>
>
>Yes, you're right. I want to be very very careful and have myself
>covered for many problems. Even in that case, there are still always
>problems. I've heard of many people having problems because of
>lightning. I always unplug everything if I ever hear lightning. A
>friend of mine, her family unplugs every appliance in their house when
>there's the slightest sound or sight of lightning.
>
>Christine
> 
>> -- 
>> PeteCresswell
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/24/2006 2:01:44 PM
Per Christine2006:
>I have about 600 gigs. Also, I want to buy something for my younger
>brother. He doesn't live with me - sadly :(((((
>He has about 800 gigs.

Gigs or megs?
-- 
PeteCresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/24/2006 2:02:16 PM
On 23 Feb 2006 23:45:38 -0800, "Christine2006"
<christinehwfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:


>That's the problem Kony. What brand of DVD disks do you like the best?
>This is a big topic.

Taiyo Yuden, made in Japan.

0
kony
2/24/2006 6:04:46 PM
kony wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2006 23:45:38 -0800, "Christine2006"
> <christinehwfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >That's the problem Kony. What brand of DVD disks do you like the best?
> >This is a big topic.
>
> Taiyo Yuden, made in Japan.

My choice too. I haven't had any problem with them. But, I don't know
if they will last 5 or 10 years. I've heard some people say that DVDs
might deteriorate after 2 years.

0
Christine2006
2/27/2006 5:19:09 AM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
> >I have about 600 gigs. Also, I want to buy something for my younger
> >brother. He doesn't live with me - sadly :(((((
> >He has about 800 gigs.
>
> Gigs or megs?
> --
> PeteCresswell

Gigs. Of course as explained in:

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~introcsp/misc/Megabytes.htm

the IBM Dictionary of computing defines a megabyte as 1,000,000 bytes.
But, Eric S. Raymond in The New Hacker's Dictionary, says a megabyte is
always 1,048,576 bytes on the argument that bytes should naturally be
computed in powers of two. So when someone buys an 80 gig drive,
according to Raymond's definition, the drive really only has 74.56
gigs. When I say 600 gigs, I mean 600 gigs under IBM's definition. I
used that definition because that's the definition that drive makers
use. That would be 558 gigs under Raymond's definition.

Christine

0
Christine2006
2/27/2006 5:20:38 AM
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Christine2006:
>
> >Pete, what do you think of storing in safe deposit boxes? Or a
> >fireproof safe in the trunk of a car, or in a basement?
>
> I don't like the car because of temperature in the summer.  \

Good point. But suppose one has a garage (protecting against summer
heat) and wants to have a backup in case there is a house fire?

> If you already
> have a safe deposit box, that would seem ideal - good temp control.
>

True. But, it's just one place. Like you suggested, I'd like to have a
number  of places.

> Basement, dunno - humidity, moisture, fungus...  also presumably
> in the same dwelling as the original.
>

Ok. Some basements can be humid, have moisture and have fungus
problems. But some basements are clean and dry. It's one place where
one could put a fireproof safe. But, like you mentioned, if there was a
fire, the safe might protect things, but the heat of a fire might hurt
the DVDs or hard drives.

> I stash some of mine in a neighbor's house.   I take care of their
> cat when they're away and they store my backups.
>

That's a good idea - if you have one good neighbor. But, I really don't
trust my neighbors.

>
> >Do you mean that it's redundant because you have many copies over time?
>
> Yes.  More copies = better.  More copies in more places = even better.
>

That's what I want to do.

>
> >Are you thinking that the problem might be something other than a bad
> >USB card?  If I knew the percentages, it would give me an idea of
> >the most common cause of drives getting fried. Of course, it would be
> >good to know how often it's just the drive itself.
>
> To me, it all boils down to:
>
> 1) Stuff happens
> 2) Sometimes it's something in the PC that will cook the next drive.
>
> I don't know (or even want to know...) enough to second guess/predict
> anything - so I just tailor my handling of the situation to work around
> it.

Good point.

> The lightning thing you describe below is an example.   With dialup,
> I'd guess that a lightning hit on the phone line could do something
> I wouldn't like.
>

Well, some people have PCs they plug into an electrical outlet. I think
you're thinking of a laptop run on a battery. I know some people who've
lost their computers because of lightning strikes.

> But it's back to "stuff happens".   I'm not suggesting that somebody turn their
> whole life inside-out just because of something that has a one in two million
> chance of happening;  but if most eventualities can be dealt with by just
> exercising a little discipline at restore time and having a couple of extra
> backup copies in different places, that seems reasonable to me.
>

That's true.

Now, I have a new problem. I started with a new Kanguru drive. I lose
all data from that drive when I shut down the PC. I am not sure what
I'm doing wrong. I'll start a new topic for this.

Christine

> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> If the recovery procedure sounds a little obsessive, well that's just the
> >> way it has to be to really cover yourself.  It will rarely be needed, but
> >> when the day comes believe me: you'll be *really* glad tb covered.
> >>
> >
> >Yes, you're right. I want to be very very careful and have myself
> >covered for many problems. Even in that case, there are still always
> >problems. I've heard of many people having problems because of
> >lightning. I always unplug everything if I ever hear lightning. A
> >friend of mine, her family unplugs every appliance in their house when
> >there's the slightest sound or sight of lightning.
> >
> >Christine
> > 
> >> -- 
> >> PeteCresswell
> -- 
> PeteCresswell

0
Christine2006
2/27/2006 5:22:12 AM
"Christine2006" <christinehwfoster@yahoo.com> writes:
> > I stash some of mine in a neighbor's house.   I take care of their
> > cat when they're away and they store my backups.
> >
> That's a good idea - if you have one good neighbor. But, I really don't
> trust my neighbors.

A simple approach: do differential backups to DVD-R or CD-R and buy a
bunch of cardboard CD mailers from ebay.  These are self-sealing and
simple to use.  Get a friend in some other state to let you mail him a
CD/DVD once in a while, and he saves it in a box or on a spindle for
you, and you do the same for him.  Do this with multiple friends in
multiple states/countries if you're really paranoid.
0
Paul
2/27/2006 5:43:13 AM
Reply:

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