Hi,

I would appreciate your feedback on this proposal:

http://clevercs.org/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=1&aid=518
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1142752188

One can view this as an alternative to programming contests for
impressing potential employers.

Would you want to be interviewed in this way?

Would you like to interview people in this way for your company?

Amir

P.S.  I'm thinking of building a quick prototype.  Any suggestions as
to which technologies I could use?  What do you think would be the best
technology to use for the broadcast aspect? vnc? something else?

In article <1142898486.335147.271410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 
amichail@gmail.com says...
> Hi,
> 
> I would appreciate your feedback on this proposal:
> 
> http://clevercs.org/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=1&aid=518
> http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1142752188
> 
> P.S.  I'm thinking of building a quick prototype.  Any suggestions as
> to which technologies I could use?  What do you think would be the best
> technology to use for the broadcast aspect? vnc? something else?

Not to rain on your parade, but the first thing I thought about was how 
to subvert it.  One could record a coding session as a macro, then 
speed it up a little and take out errors and false starts - then 
present it as 'live'...

Still it's a good idea - and one could always have an option to do a 
real on-line test where a new problem is presented to participants and 
they then try solve it live.  

- Gerry Quinn

Gerry Quinn wrote:
> In article <1142898486.335147.271410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> amichail@gmail.com says...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would appreciate your feedback on this proposal:
> >
> > http://clevercs.org/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=1&aid=518
> > http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1142752188
> >
> > P.S.  I'm thinking of building a quick prototype.  Any suggestions as
> > to which technologies I could use?  What do you think would be the best
> > technology to use for the broadcast aspect? vnc? something else?
>
> Not to rain on your parade, but the first thing I thought about was how
> to subvert it.  One could record a coding session as a macro, then
> speed it up a little and take out errors and false starts - then
> present it as 'live'...
>

I need to think about cheating a bit more, but here are some thoughts:

*  someone who rarely makes mistakes might be viewed with suspicion and
observed more closely

* there would be a chat feature that might help you catch cheating like
this

* you would never know when potential employers will be watching; it
might be just easier to code live whenever possible to maximize your
chances of being seen

* cheating for long periods of time might be too much work

In any case, what would be the point of setting up unrealistic
expections, getting a job, and then getting fired for not living up to
those expectations?

> Still it's a good idea - and one could always have an option to do a
> real on-line test where a new problem is presented to participants and
> they then try solve it live.

Yes, I could have that as well.

Amir

> 
> - Gerry Quinn

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:34:17 UTC, Gerry Quinn <gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> 
wrote:

<snip>
> Still it's a good idea - and one could always have an option to do a 
> real on-line test where a new problem is presented to participants and 
> they then try solve it live.  
> 
> - Gerry Quinn

  Hello Gerry and the group,

  I've had this done for real interviews and use it myself from time
to time.  While the discussion here has been for a coding session,
that usually accounts for a small portion of the time for positions
I've worked in.  To discover how a candidate thinks before asking
them in, we've asked them to solve a live problem.  This is usually
related to the position we're interviewing for and relatively
obfuscated.

  A good example was for a position that I was applying for with
a large medical device company.  They were down to three candidates
and needed to choose based on our ability to "hit the ground running".
We were faxed a problem description and associated requirements for
a new feature on an existing product line.  The goal was to write up
the functional specifications and estimate the time for ourselves
to complete the task.  There were no canned forms to fill in or
anything like that.  We had four hours to fax back our completed
solution.  Prior to the test we only knew that we'd receive a
typical assignment via fax and have several hours to complete it.

  They chose another person for the position and called me back
the next day stating the other person had accepted their offer.
Two days later another division offered me a position based on
the results of that test.  They were a terrific company to work
for.

  As for practicing coding sessions and such online... always
practice and improve your technique.  Always find something
else you can do to improve your worth to an employer.  Any
good employer will spot your abilities and do their best to
match you to a good position there or somewhere else that
they know about.  My current employer also has a habit of
referring good candidates to other companies in the area.

  David

  David

  

on 21 Mar 2006 03:39:25 -0800, "amichail@gmail.com" <amichail@gmail.com> wrote
this wisdom:

>Gerry Quinn wrote:
>> In article <1142898486.335147.271410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> amichail@gmail.com says...
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I would appreciate your feedback on this proposal:
>> >
>> > http://clevercs.org/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=1&aid=518
>> > http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1142752188
>> >
>> > P.S.  I'm thinking of building a quick prototype.  Any suggestions as
>> > to which technologies I could use?  What do you think would be the best
>> > technology to use for the broadcast aspect? vnc? something else?
>>
>> Not to rain on your parade, but the first thing I thought about was how
>> to subvert it.  One could record a coding session as a macro, then
>> speed it up a little and take out errors and false starts - then
>> present it as 'live'...
>>
>
>I need to think about cheating a bit more, but here are some thoughts:
>
>*  someone who rarely makes mistakes might be viewed with suspicion and
>observed more closely
>
>* there would be a chat feature that might help you catch cheating like
>this
>
>* you would never know when potential employers will be watching; it
>might be just easier to code live whenever possible to maximize your
>chances of being seen
>
>* cheating for long periods of time might be too much work

In any case cheating would prove to be HARDER work than coding live, surely?

-- 
Simon.

'Be Seeing You.
Who is number one?
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed or numbered.
Registered Linux User #300464 Machine Id #188886
Linux Counter - http://counter.li.org/
Remove the s.p.a.m to reply

Hi,

I've made some progress on a prototype:

http://vnccasts.com/

http://groups.google.com/group/VNCCasts

You can use the standard (but not "tight") vnc viewer to view the demo
"VNCCast": just click on "view" and leave the password empty.  If you
get a black screen, please try again later.

Feel free to provide more compelling content! I fully intend this to
become something like "VNC TV".

Amir

amichail@gmail.com wrote:
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
> > In article <1142898486.335147.271410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > amichail@gmail.com says...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I would appreciate your feedback on this proposal:
> > >
> > > http://clevercs.org/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=1&aid=518
> > > http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1142752188
> > >
> > > P.S.  I'm thinking of building a quick prototype.  Any suggestions as
> > > to which technologies I could use?  What do you think would be the best
> > > technology to use for the broadcast aspect? vnc? something else?
> >
> > Not to rain on your parade, but the first thing I thought about was how
> > to subvert it.  One could record a coding session as a macro, then
> > speed it up a little and take out errors and false starts - then
> > present it as 'live'...
> >
>
> I need to think about cheating a bit more, but here are some thoughts:
>
> *  someone who rarely makes mistakes might be viewed with suspicion and
> observed more closely
>
> * there would be a chat feature that might help you catch cheating like
> this
>
> * you would never know when potential employers will be watching; it
> might be just easier to code live whenever possible to maximize your
> chances of being seen
>
> * cheating for long periods of time might be too much work
>
> In any case, what would be the point of setting up unrealistic
> expections, getting a job, and then getting fired for not living up to
> those expectations?
>
> > Still it's a good idea - and one could always have an option to do a
> > real on-line test where a new problem is presented to participants and
> > they then try solve it live.
> 
> Yes, I could have that as well.
> 
> Amir
> 
> > 
> > - Gerry Quinn

gud one.

karthik balaguru