Adminstrative rights

If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
other things that I've missed.

0
dnlwhite (9)
8/5/2006 2:56:03 AM
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Doug wrote:
> If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
> lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
> view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
> they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
> Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
> GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
> other things that I've missed.
> 

What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the 
developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine 
to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about 
this.

Duane :)
0
Duane
8/5/2006 9:54:41 AM
Duane Arnold wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
> > lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
> > view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
> > they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
> > Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
> > GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
> > other things that I've missed.
> >
>
> What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the
> developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine
> to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about
> this.


While developers need admin rights for some tasks, it's quite possible
(and common in larger shops) for the developers to normally run as a
non-admin user, and to "RunAs" for those relatively few tasks for which
you need admin rights.  MS has several articles on the subject, this
one should also answer a number of the OP's question:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/tchDevelopingSoftwareInVisualStudioNETWithNon-AdministrativePrivileges.asp

0
robertwessel2 (1674)
8/5/2006 10:08:11 AM
Doug said:

> If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
> lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
> view, what kind of issues would that raise?

It depends. Is it an issue if all your good developers suddenly decide the 
bureaucracy is too much for them, and decide to go el$ewhere, leaving you 
to hire a bunch of wannabees in their place? If not, then I recommend you 
do this straight away, since you sure can't trust those wannabees with 
admin rights.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
0
invalid171 (7009)
8/5/2006 10:21:52 AM
robertwessel2@yahoo.com wrote:
> Duane Arnold wrote:
> 
>>Doug wrote:
>>
>>>If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
>>>lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
>>>view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
>>>they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
>>>Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
>>>GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
>>>other things that I've missed.
>>>
>>
>>What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the
>>developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine
>>to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about
>>this.
> 
> 
> 
> While developers need admin rights for some tasks, it's quite possible
> (and common in larger shops) for the developers to normally run as a
> non-admin user, and to "RunAs" for those relatively few tasks for which
> you need admin rights.  MS has several articles on the subject, this
> one should also answer a number of the OP's question:
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/tchDevelopingSoftwareInVisualStudioNETWithNon-AdministrativePrivileges.asp
> 

That's why they have Quality Assurance testing with machines setup in 
that environment. The QA tester would not have admin rights and would 
test all aspects of the solution for success or failure.

It's not or should not be the responsibility of the developer to be 
running in a situation at his or her workstation to be testing user 
rights. He or she may run as a non-admin is a limited role as an 
end-user. But that is far and in between that it would ever happen that 
a developer would not be developing solutions with non-admin rights. 
That testing of rights belongs elsewhere.

It's not even an issue as far as I am concerned that the application 
developer must have Admin rights on the Windows NT based O/S. I have 
never not been given admin rights or even seen or heard of a developer 
not given admin rights in any shop larger or small anywhere and I have 
worked for his or her workstation. And I have worked in a mixture of 
small, large and very large shops as a full-time and contractor over the 
years and I have never seen it.

So no, I don't think it's a common occurrence  (any where) that the 
developer on the MS platform using a machine that has a Windows NT based 
O/S installed is not given Admin rights.

Duane :)
0
Duane
8/5/2006 10:49:51 AM
Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Doug said:
> 
> 
>>If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
>>lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
>>view, what kind of issues would that raise?
> 
> 
> It depends. Is it an issue if all your good developers suddenly decide the 
> bureaucracy is too much for them, and decide to go el$ewhere, leaving you 
> to hire a bunch of wannabees in their place? If not, then I recommend you 
> do this straight away, since you sure can't trust those wannabees with 
> admin rights.
> 

This is too ridiculous.

Duane
0
Duane
8/5/2006 11:01:11 AM
I agree that it's not a good situation.  However, it may become the
situation that I and other developers have to live in where I
work...before they make that situation a reality, I was hoping to
provide them with some things that they would prevent us from being
able to do in this situation.    I can only think of a few but was
wondering if others might have more concrete things that I could use as
well.

0
dnlwhite (9)
8/5/2006 2:10:27 PM
Doug wrote:
> I agree that it's not a good situation.  However, it may become the
> situation that I and other developers have to live in where I
> work...before they make that situation a reality, I was hoping to
> provide them with some things that they would prevent us from being
> able to do in this situation.    I can only think of a few but was
> wondering if others might have more concrete things that I could use as
> well.
> 

It shouldn't make a difference. If they are trying to prevent things 
from making it into a production environment from a developer's 
workstation things like wrong versions of DLL(s) with ActiveX controls 
or OCX(s) etc, etc that break production applications, then they should 
implement a build machine solution.

One machine that all applications are built from that has all the 
approved things that area allowed to be installed in the production 
environment. No developer is allowed to make a build from his or her 
machine and install it in a production or even a test environment.

That's particularly true for VS 6 solutions. It can also be applied to 
..NET solutions as well where things must be installed for workstation or 
client server solution. One machine where the build must be done that 
has all the approved things that are allowed to be installed in a test, 
QA or production environment. That also applies to .NET WEB solutions as 
  well where the WEB solution is going to be installed with an install 
package on the WEB server.

No builds of install packages from the developer's workstation should be 
allowed to be installed in the environments.

Now, if the developer is installing things on the workstation that have 
not been approved to run or his or her workstation, then IT management 
runs a remote network application that scans the machine for non 
approved applications and remove them.  Management should follow up with 
a stern warning or a reprimand if it continues to happen.

In addition to what you have talked about as far as GAC or particularly 
for VS 6 solutions, things cannot be installed into the System32 
directory without admin rights and a lot of things are installed in to 
that directory, even in a delopment situation.

Yeah, management may want to go there with the lock down and try to go 
with it. But they may have to back off on it.

Duane :)




0
Duane
8/5/2006 3:04:57 PM
Duane Arnold wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
> > lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
> > view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
> > they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
> > Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
> > GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
> > other things that I've missed.
> >
>
> What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the
> developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine
> to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about
> this.

Obviously you've worked in more civilised places than me.
I've never worked in a company where anyone outside of the IT
department has had admin rights.

0
robert.thorpe (1138)
8/5/2006 7:39:51 PM
Rob Thorpe wrote:
> Duane Arnold wrote:
> 
>>Doug wrote:
>>
>>>If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
>>>lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
>>>view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
>>>they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
>>>Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
>>>GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
>>>other things that I've missed.
>>>
>>
>>What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the
>>developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine
>>to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about
>>this.
> 
> 
> Obviously you've worked in more civilised places than me.
> I've never worked in a company where anyone outside of the IT
> department has had admin rights.
> 
And somehow the application developer working in the IT department is 
NOT part of the IT department?

I am confused. What is your post about? ;-)

Duane :)

0
Duane
8/5/2006 8:12:25 PM
Duane Arnold wrote:
> Rob Thorpe wrote:
> > Duane Arnold wrote:
> >
> >>Doug wrote:
> >>
> >>>If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
> >>>lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
> >>>view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
> >>>they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
> >>>Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
> >>>GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
> >>>other things that I've missed.
> >>>
> >>
> >>What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the
> >>developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine
> >>to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about
> >>this.
> >
> >
> > Obviously you've worked in more civilised places than me.
> > I've never worked in a company where anyone outside of the IT
> > department has had admin rights.
> >
> And somehow the application developer working in the IT department is
> NOT part of the IT department?

In Europe programmers are generally part of the Engineering department
of companies.  I've only known one programmer who was part of IT
department of his company.

> I am confused. What is your post about? ;-)

Just pointing out other people do things in worse ways unfortunately.

0
robert.thorpe (1138)
8/6/2006 5:52:10 PM
Rob Thorpe wrote:
> Duane Arnold wrote:
> 
>>Rob Thorpe wrote:
>>
>>>Duane Arnold wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Doug wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If developers (i.e. programmers in languages such as C# and/or VB 6.0)
>>>>>lost administrative rights to their computers, from a general point of
>>>>>view, what kind of issues would that raise?   From what I can think of,
>>>>>they'd lose the ability to create things such as Windows Services,
>>>>>Add-In tools and possibly even the ability to install files into the
>>>>>GAC on their machine.  I'm not sure if I'm right and/or if there are
>>>>>other things that I've missed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is you're concern about this? It's an automatic/given that the
>>>>developer on the Windows platform must have Admin rights on the machine
>>>>to develop solutions at the workstation period. There are no buts about
>>>>this.
>>>
>>>
>>>Obviously you've worked in more civilised places than me.
>>>I've never worked in a company where anyone outside of the IT
>>>department has had admin rights.
>>>
>>
>>And somehow the application developer working in the IT department is
>>NOT part of the IT department?
> 
> 
> In Europe programmers are generally part of the Engineering department
> of companies.  I've only known one programmer who was part of IT
> department of his company.

It's different strokes for different strokes I guess.
> 
> 
>>I am confused. What is your post about? ;-)
> 
> 
> Just pointing out other people do things in worse ways unfortunately.

You're one of the few people in that area of the world that seems to be 
*cool*. You and a couple of others I have met out here and one *cool* 
English cat that knows his stuff I am working with here at the place I 
am currently contracting.

Other than that, everyone else I have met seems to be in some kind of 
French Revolution with mob rules. ;-)

Have a nice day!

Duane :)


0
Duane
8/6/2006 6:27:09 PM
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