Where do I go from here? - comp.programming

The questions is, what programming language do you recommend that I become an expert in? Before you hit reply, let me give you a background: Took C programming class in HS VB class in college (twice - beer not brains caused the failure) Military programming training in ADA and dabbled in some others. Worked as network admin, using batch files and vbscript Just finishing web programming degree, studied javascript, vbscript, asp, php, perl, JSP (next semester), sql and database. The problem is that I have never had the opportunity to really dig into any language. With school about to end I will have some free time to work on what I want, but I don't know what I want. I am currently a MS network admin. That is probably where I will stay. I took web programming, just becuase I know I will need that background in the future. I am interested in web sites. I am trying to get my own up and running. It is currently housed on a linux web server, but I can change that if I want. I want to learn something that will help with web programming, and my job as a network admin. If I was a linux admin, this would be perl, enough said. But with windows, the first thought I had was VB. But VB is really that powerful on the web (or am i wrong? I have not used .net stuff yet just older vb and vbscript). ASP doesn't help much at my job. Any ideas on where I should go now? Should I try to master PHP and VBscript?

trading_jacks said: > The questions is, what programming language do you recommend that I > become an expert in? Well, obviously it depends on what you want to do, where you want to go. If you're happy... oh, excuse me a moment. <snip> > I am currently a MS network admin. That is probably where I will stay. Where was I? Oh yes. If you're happy to stick with Microsoft stuff, you'll want to get into their .Net architecture. You are clearly aware that better operating systems exist, though, so you may find it good for your soul to - how can I put this? - um, to "minor" in Linux, PHP, MySQL or Postgresql, C or maybe C++, Perl, that sort of thing, whilst focussing primarily on improving your understanding of your current work environment. For MS, .NET is certainly where it's at right now, so I do suggest you take a long, hard look at it. > I took web programming, just becuase I know I will need that > background in the future. I am interested in web sites. I am trying > to get my own up and running. It is currently housed on a linux web > server, but I can change that if I want. I wouldn't change it, to be honest. Most Internet servers run on Linux, and there's a good reason for that. (According to legend, when Microsoft acquired Hotmail the first thing they did was move the whole deal off Linux and onto NT, and the second thing they did was move it all back again!) It will do you no harm to develop your understanding of Web programming on both platforms - MS because that's Where You Are Right Now in work terms, and Linux because you know you love it to bits. :-) > Any ideas on where I should go now? Should I try to master PHP and > VBscript? PHP will do you the world of good. But also take a closer look at VB.NET. I am no fan thereof (I think .NET sucks, to be honest), but it seems to lie in the direction you're intending to travel, so it makes sense for you to head for it, if you see what I mean. -- Richard Heathfield "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999 http://www.cpax.org.uk email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:08:32 +0000 Richard Heathfield <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > I wouldn't change it, to be honest. Most Internet servers run on Linux, > and there's a good reason for that. (According to legend, when Microsoft > acquired Hotmail the first thing they did was move the whole deal off > Linux and onto NT, and the second thing they did was move it all back > again!) Hotmail was FreeBSD not Linux - AIUI they did finally get it moved to .Net the process might have had something to do with .Net being available for FreeBSD for a while. Apart from that I second all the good advice you just gave the OP. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see | http://www.sohara.org/

"trading_jacks" <MARKFERGASON@gmail.com> wrote in message > The questions is, what programming language do you recommend that I > become an expert in? > It depends if you are serious about programming, or whether you have other motives, such as earning a good living quickly. If you are serious about programming then learn C, and learn it well, practically every interesting program is written in C. The problem is that interesting programs and programs that earn money in the short term are not the same thing. It is perfectly legitimate to want a decent job now and not focus everything on the long term. In that case, go for the shortage areas. These change all the time, and I couldn't tell you what is currently in most demand, but probably web CGI script type programming, SQL and database work, formal methods for big systems. These are only guesses. -- www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm freeware games to download.

trading_jacks wrote: > The questions is, what programming language do you recommend that I > become an expert in? > > Before you hit reply, let me give you a background: [SNIP] > > The problem is that I have never had the opportunity to really dig into > any language. With school about to end I will have some free time to > work on what I want, but I don't know what I want. > > I am currently a MS network admin. That is probably where I will stay. > I took web programming, just becuase I know I will need that > background in the future. I am interested in web sites. I am trying > to get my own up and running. It is currently housed on a linux web > server, but I can change that if I want. > > I want to learn something that will help with web programming, and my > job as a network admin. If I was a linux admin, this would be perl, > enough said. I would go with Python first and C second. Python makes an excellent sysadmin language on both Unix and Windows, but it's also a full-fledged application or web development language. Unlike the "platform independence" of Java, Python tends to be more "platform agnostic" and integrates will with the host OS--that is, in addition to nice, portable, high level features you can get easy access to the sorts of platform specifics that are a big part of an admin's day-to-day life. It can also easily fill the PHP web language niche (I recommend looking at Karragell or Django for a well-designed web framework in Python), without having you dedicate any time to a language whose use outside of web programming is rather limited. When you're ready to move on to non-admin/non-web "real application" development, Python will grow nicely...wxWidgets allows for nice platform-independent GUIs, and with a bit of investigation you can get pretty down and dirty (my window manager is written in Python). At some point you're going to want to learn C. It's still the best choice in some domains, and there's a tremendous amount of C code out there that it's nice to be able to read and change. And whether you go with Java, Python, Ruby,or whatever you can write native C extensions for most higher-level languages when you need access to low-level things (although Python 2.5's ctypes module lets you call C functions from shared libraries easily without writing any C yourself).

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:08:32 +0000, Richard Heathfield <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >PHP will do you the world of good. But also take a closer look at VB.NET. I >am no fan thereof (I think .NET sucks, to be honest), but it seems to lie >in the direction you're intending to travel, so it makes sense for you to >head for it, if you see what I mean. If you prefer C to VB then you might want to pick C# for your .NET language rather than VB.NET. There is not a major difference since all .NET languages are dominated by the .NET part so the only real difference is often the syntax used. C# is closer to C++ and Java in style than VB which might make it easier to add either of those two languages to your repetoire later should you need to. rossum

> I would go with Python first and C second. I have heard of phython, but never used it. I liked its wide range of applications. This was my Idea for my first project for my new language, let me know how you think python would handle it. I want to create an in house web app that integrates our vbs logon scripts (that pull computer and user info), with a helpdesk trouble ticket program. Nothing fancy, just some backend programming to a database (probably mysql) and a simple web interface for users to submit tickets and admins to view, update and complete them. Email capability a plus. This would be best if it could run on a current system, as they would not approve another server just for this. I could add a linux box, but the two of us that would like to see more linux are outranked by the two who like things where they are. I think I will also start to (re)learn C, as it seems that everyone agrees that becoming a well versed c programmer will enable me to learn most everything else in the future. Should I work at regular C, C++ or C#? Also my intentions for this are not to find a job at all (at least not in the next few years). I have a good job. I like my job. I gave up a higher paying job for this one (if you know what industrial engineering is you understand why). This job lets me do what I want with the network (except move it to linux, but I did get them to buy some linux thin clients!). That is why I wanted some advice on where to go. I have the freedom to work with whatever I want here. So it looks like python is the leader at this point. Thanks for all your help guys.

trading_jacks wrote: > > I would go with Python first and C second. > > I have heard of phython, but never used it. I liked its wide range of > applications. > > This was my Idea for my first project for my new language, let me know > how you think python would handle it. > > I want to create an in house web app that integrates our vbs logon > scripts (that pull computer and user info), with a helpdesk trouble > ticket program. Nothing fancy, just some backend programming to a > database (probably mysql) and a simple web interface for users to > submit tickets and admins to view, update and complete them. Email > capability a plus. This would be best if it could run on a current > system, as they would not approve another server just for this. I > could add a linux box, but the two of us that would like to see more > linux are outranked by the two who like things where they are. This is a very simple application and you'd have no problems writing it in Python, Perl, Ruby, php, Java, or whatever. I don't know what you're running for your web server, but any of the above (including Python) can be run inside IIS. You would have to install the Python (or whatever) interpreter and either some sort of ISAPI or run as CGI/FastCGI/something else IIS supports.

trading_jacks wrote: > > I would go with Python first and C second. > > > I have heard of phython, but never used it. I liked its wide range of > applications. One other thing I forgot to mention: if you do move to .NET in the future, the IronPython implementation runs with (and integrates with) ..NET; Microsoft actively supports its development. So you can run your Python code in a .NET framework. There's a similar Jython implementation for Java, but it's not as well maintained.

Frankly, I disagree with much of this advice. I know exactly the situation you're in. :) Grow when/where you can, but stick to your core strengths. In the future, should you be seeking a job, it's highly unlikely that anyone will be asking for a MS server admin but with additional non-MS coding experience. Imagine you're a blank table and you're constructing your skill set with legos. Right now you're building a tower with MS legos. Yes, you can begin building a secondary tower with Python legos instead of ..NET...but why exactly? Yes, you will have the benefit of a broader level of industry experience, but I'm unsure what real advantage that will give you. I do know what disadvantage you'll get though: you will fall behind in any one "niche." Niche skillsets are the wave of the current and future. Expand your knowledge, but hold onto your niche. If you're sure---really *sure*---you want to go into web dev (not just the typical nickel and dime admin stuff you're referring to), then do so with both feet and make web dev your niche (and expect a temporary drop in pay until you get up to par with the rest of your web dev peers) instead of watering down your current niche w/ relatively "exotic" (I use that term lightly) solutions to common problems. I hope I'm making sense. Also recognize that many folks on this forum have pet languages that they will always endorse when questions like this emerge. In other words: 1.) If your question is: 'what programming language do I use to solve problem X?' Then my answer would probably be html/javascript (since you've already indicated that's your company's current standard?). Why change up? 2.) If your question is: 'what programming language should I learn for future success given my past experience?' Then my answer would be to begin installing Visual Studio and get crackin. 3.) If your question is #1+#2 then begin installing Visual Studio. After all, .NET supports HTML and Javascript just as well as VB and C#. 4.) If your question is something else, then post it.