I have tried to find rules in the Dicom standard that specifies what
attributes can be used in a C-FIND Patient Root Query level = STUDY on
the Patient level. Of course the Patient ID must be specified. But is
it also possible to add a Patient Name with value = NULL specifying
you want a Patient Name returned in the answer ?

Thanks Huub van de Mortel

Hi Huub

Huub wrote:
> I have tried to find rules in the Dicom standard that specifies what
> attributes can be used in a C-FIND Patient Root Query level = STUDY on
> the Patient level.

PS 3.4 C.6.2.1.2 Study level.

For the definition of U, R and O, see C.2.2.1 Attribute Types

> Of course the Patient ID must be specified.

Actually no, it is not required.

There is no unique key at the top level of any model's query.

> But is
> it also possible to add a Patient Name with value = NULL specifying
> you want a Patient Name returned in the answer ?

Yes, anything at the patient and series levels can be included in
a study-root study level query as a zero length attributes, and
it will either be matched, returned with a value, or not returned
depending on what the model says is required and what optional keys
the SCP supports.

David

On 20 nov, 19:06, David Clunie <dclu...@dclunie.com> wrote:
> Hi Huub
>
> Huub wrote:
> > I have tried to find rules in the Dicom standard that specifies what
> > attributes can be used in a C-FIND Patient Root Query level = STUDY on
> > the Patient level.
>
> PS 3.4 C.6.2.1.2 Study level.
>
> For the definition of U, R and O, see C.2.2.1 Attribute Types
>
> > Of course the Patient ID must be specified.
>
> Actually no, it is not required.
>
> There is no unique key at the top level of any model's query.
>
> > But is
> > it also possible to add a Patient Name with value = NULL specifying
> > you want a Patient Name returned in the answer ?
>
> Yes, anything at the patient and series levels can be included in
> a study-root study level query as a zero length attributes, and
> it will either be matched, returned with a value, or not returned
> depending on what the model says is required and what optional keys
> the SCP supports.
>
> David

Hello David,

Thanks for your time and interrest in this Disccusion group for so
long now..
In your answer you refer to a study-root study level query but what I
asked for was a patient-root study level query.
C. 6.2.1.2 is also about the Study Root Query.

I'm  referring to C. 4.1.2.1

[quote] The Identifier contained in a C-FIND request shall contain a
single value in the Unique Key Attribute for each level above the
Query/Retrieve level.  No Required or Optional Keys shall be specified
which are associated with levels above the Query/Retrieve level.[/
quote]

When the Patient ID is used  an unique key at the Patient Level can a
Patient Name with value NULL also be added in order to request for a
patient name in the matches found ?. My interpretation is that the
Patient Name should not be considered as a Key Value but a "Return
Attribute" . But I cannot find something in the standard about
"Returned Attributes"  requested.

I have a PACS supplier rejecting the Query because the Patient Name
added and a Viewing application using it and both stating it is
conforming the Dicom standard.

Regards Huub

Huub wrote:

> In your answer you refer to a study-root study level query but what I
> asked for was a patient-root study level query.

Oh sorry, I read it too quickly.

Huub wrote:

> I have tried to find rules in the Dicom standard that specifies what
> attributes can be used in a C-FIND Patient Root Query level = STUDY on
> the Patient level. Of course the Patient ID must be specified. But is
> it also possible to add a Patient Name with value = NULL specifying
> you want a Patient Name returned in the answer ?

Not at the STUDY level; only the unique key of the level above may
be specified in a lower than top level query, in this case Patient
ID as you stated.

To get the Patient Name, you have to do a PATIENT level query, and
specify the Patient ID as a matching key, and the Patient Name as
empty as a return key.

The procedure is defined in PS 3.4 C.4.1.3.1.1 Hierarchical Search
Method.

The PATIENT level keys for the patient root model are specified in
PS 3.4 C.6.1.1.2 Patient Level.

The STUDY level keys for the patient root mode are specified in
PS 3.4 C.6.1.1.3 Study Level. This table includes ONLY study level
attributes as explicitly defined U, R or O, or included as optional
via the "All other Attributes at Study Level" row.

David

Hi David,

Just for clarification:

According my understanding of:

>C.4.1.2.2.1   Relational-Queries
>
>The C-FIND Service with relational-queries allows any combination of keys =
at any level in the hierarchy. [...]

if relational-query was negotiated, a C-FIND SCU is allowed to request
Patient attributes in patient-root study level query.

Right?

gunter

On Nov 23, 7:16=A0pm, David Clunie <dclu...@dclunie.com> wrote:
> Huub wrote:
> > In your answer you refer to a study-root study level query but what I
> > asked for was a patient-root study level query.
>
> Oh sorry, I read it too quickly.
>
> Huub wrote:
> > I have tried to find rules in the Dicom standard that specifies what
> > attributes can be used in a C-FIND Patient Root Query level =3D STUDY o=
n
> > the Patient level. Of course the Patient ID must be specified. But is
> > it also possible to add a Patient Name with value =3D NULL specifying
> > you want a Patient Name returned in the answer ?
>
> Not at the STUDY level; only the unique key of the level above may
> be specified in a lower than top level query, in this case Patient
> ID as you stated.
>
> To get the Patient Name, you have to do a PATIENT level query, and
> specify the Patient ID as a matching key, and the Patient Name as
> empty as a return key.
>
> The procedure is defined in PS 3.4 C.4.1.3.1.1 Hierarchical Search
> Method.
>
> The PATIENT level keys for the patient root model are specified in
> PS 3.4 C.6.1.1.2 Patient Level.
>
> The STUDY level keys for the patient root mode are specified in
> PS 3.4 C.6.1.1.3 Study Level. This table includes ONLY study level
> attributes as explicitly defined U, R or O, or included as optional
> via the "All other Attributes at Study Level" row.
>
> David