f



Type A ,Type B

Hi,

Someone please differentiate Type A and Type B messages/network?
or give me poitners to where i can find them..

Thanks,
...Vinodh..

0
Vinodh
10/12/2005 9:29:00 AM
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In article <1129109340.812999.298990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
 "Vinodh Saigopal" <vinodh.sai@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Someone please differentiate Type A and Type B messages/network?
> or give me poitners to where i can find them..

What protocol are you talking about?  There's no such terms, AFAIK, in 
IP, TCP, UDP, or ICMP.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
0
Barry
10/13/2005 1:57:46 AM
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:
> In article <1129109340.812999.298990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>  "Vinodh Saigopal" <vinodh.sai@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Someone please differentiate Type A and Type B messages/network?
> > or give me poitners to where i can find them..
> 
> What protocol are you talking about?  There's no such terms, AFAIK, in 
> IP, TCP, UDP, or ICMP.

Type A messages provide all the information and context you need to
answer the question.  They're quick, to-the-point, and produce
follow-up threads that die young.

Type B messages are more relaxed and vague, and rarely lead to a clear
answer.  They tend to produce threads that live much longer.

The original posting was an example of a "Type B" message.

;-}

-- 
James Carlson, KISS Network                    <james.d.carlson@sun.com>
Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive         71.232W   Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757   42.496N   Fax +1 781 442 1677
0
James
10/13/2005 11:16:39 AM
ha..ha.. good example.

My network knowledge is weak and i cud not get any clue of this Type A
and B. The Type A and Type B I am worried about is that used in the
Airline messages traffic - esp in ticketing.

The so called experts i met cud not give me a satisfactory answer.

All i cud collect is the following from RFC 892.


        Type A: Network connection with acceptable residual error
                rate (for example not signalled by 'clear' or 'reset')
                and acceptable rate of signalled failures.

        Type B: Network connections with acceptable residual error
                rate (for example not signalled by 'clear' or 'reset')
                but unacceptable rate of signalled failures.

        Type C: Network connections with residual error rate not
                acceptable to the TS-user.

Now another question raised in my mind.. what is residual error rate
and signalled error rate?

I got answer for one..

undetected error ratio: The ratio of the number of bits, unit elements,
characters, or blocks incorrectly received and undetected, to the total
number of bits, unit elements, characters, or blocks sent. Synonyms
residual error rate, undetected error rate

Anyone can help me with definition of signalled error rate?

Rgds,
Vinodh.

0
Vinodh
10/14/2005 11:40:12 AM
In article <1129290012.015927.321560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
 "Vinodh Saigopal" <vinodh.sai@gmail.com> wrote:

> ha..ha.. good example.
> 
> My network knowledge is weak and i cud not get any clue of this Type A
> and B. The Type A and Type B I am worried about is that used in the
> Airline messages traffic - esp in ticketing.
> 
> The so called experts i met cud not give me a satisfactory answer.
> 
> All i cud collect is the following from RFC 892.

That's about the ISO Transport Protocol.  Does anyone really use that?  
It's *not* TCP/IP -- it's a protocol suite that was intended to replace 
TCP/IP networking, but never caught on widely.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
0
Barry
10/14/2005 12:26:17 PM
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:
> That's about the ISO Transport Protocol.  Does anyone really use that?  
> It's *not* TCP/IP -- it's a protocol suite that was intended to replace 
> TCP/IP networking, but never caught on widely.

ISO had a few problems ... ISO and ISO chartered standards
organizations had guidelines that only networking standards work that
conformed to OSI model could be done. very late 80s, was somewhat
involved in trying to interest ANSI x3s3.3 (US ISO chartered
organization for standards in the area of OSI level 3&4 ... network &
transport) interested in working on HSP (high-speed protocol).

it was turned down ... in part:

1) HSP would go directly from level 4/5 interface to LAN/MAC
interface, bypassing the level 3/4 interface (network/transport). this
violated OSI model ... and so couldn't be worked on.

2) HSP would support internetworking protocol ... i.e. IP. OSI model
doesn't contain an internetworking layer, supporting IP violated OSI
model and therefor couldn't be worked on.

3) HSP would go directly to the LAN/MAC inteface. LAN/MAC interface
corresponds approx. to somewhere in the middle of OSI layer 3
(networking) ... and violated OSI model, therefor anything supporting
LANs also violated OSI model and couldn't be worked on.

however, ISO was also mandated by some govs (including US federal) that
tcp/ip network would be eliminated and be replaced by ISO/OSI network.

misc. collected HSP and/or OSI postings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp

for some additional reference ... my rfc index (frames version)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

in "RFCs listed by" section, select "Term (term->RFC#)"

and in the "Acronym fastpath" section select possibly "ISO8072",
"ISO8073", "ISO8473", "ISO8879", "ISO", "ITU" and/or "ITU-T" (for part
of its life, international telecommunication standards were "ITU"),
i.e.

International Organization for Standardization  (ISO)
 3745 3629 3563 3163 2781 2556 2503 2279 2126 2044 2030 1888 1859
 1815 1781 1698 1632 1629 1575 1574 1564 1561 1554 1485 1484 1418
 1377 1330 1327 1283 1277 1240 1238 1237 1223 1214 1195 1169 1165
 1162 1161 1148 1142 1139 1138 1086 1085 1070 1069 1039 1008 1007
 1006 995 994 986 983 982 941 926 905 892

clicking on any RFC numbers, brings up that RFC summary in the lower
frame. examp:

892 -
  ISO Transport Protocol specification [Draft], International
  Organization for Standardization, 1983/12/01 (82pp) (.txt=158151)
  (Obsoleted by 905)

in rfc summary, clicking on the ".txt=nnnn" field retrieves the
actual RFC. also ...

905
 ISO Transport Protocol specification ISO DP 8073, McKenzie A.,
 1984/04/01 (154pp) (.txt=249214) (Obsoletes 892) (Ref'ed By 1191,
 1583, 1700, 1981, 2178, 2328, 2642, 2740, 2896)

obviously, IETF didn't reciprocate ... even tho, internetworking
protocol violated OSI model and therefor couldn't be worked on by any
ISO organization ... OSI didn't violate any IETF model.

-- 
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
0
Anne
10/14/2005 2:14:32 PM
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:
> In article <1129290012.015927.321560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>  "Vinodh Saigopal" <vinodh.sai@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > ha..ha.. good example.
> > 
> > My network knowledge is weak and i cud not get any clue of this Type A
> > and B. The Type A and Type B I am worried about is that used in the
> > Airline messages traffic - esp in ticketing.
> > 
> > The so called experts i met cud not give me a satisfactory answer.
> > 
> > All i cud collect is the following from RFC 892.
> 
> That's about the ISO Transport Protocol.  Does anyone really use that?  
> It's *not* TCP/IP -- it's a protocol suite that was intended to replace 
> TCP/IP networking, but never caught on widely.

The real question, I think, is why the original poster is reading this
particular RFC.

What problem is he trying to solve that involves RFC 892?

-- 
James Carlson, KISS Network                    <james.d.carlson@sun.com>
Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive         71.232W   Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757   42.496N   Fax +1 781 442 1677
0
James
10/14/2005 8:43:57 PM
In article <xoavvezzygky.fsf@sun.com>,
 James Carlson <james.d.carlson@sun.com> wrote:

> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:
> > In article <1129290012.015927.321560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> >  "Vinodh Saigopal" <vinodh.sai@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > ha..ha.. good example.
> > > 
> > > My network knowledge is weak and i cud not get any clue of this Type A
> > > and B. The Type A and Type B I am worried about is that used in the
> > > Airline messages traffic - esp in ticketing.
> > > 
> > > The so called experts i met cud not give me a satisfactory answer.
> > > 
> > > All i cud collect is the following from RFC 892.
> > 
> > That's about the ISO Transport Protocol.  Does anyone really use that?  
> > It's *not* TCP/IP -- it's a protocol suite that was intended to replace 
> > TCP/IP networking, but never caught on widely.
> 
> The real question, I think, is why the original poster is reading this
> particular RFC.
> 
> What problem is he trying to solve that involves RFC 892?

He suggested that this protocol is used in the airline industry, and I 
wouldn't be totally surprised if it's true.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
0
Barry
10/15/2005 12:30:56 AM
James Carlson <james.d.carlson@sun.com> writes:
> The real question, I think, is why the original poster is reading this
> particular RFC.
>
> What problem is he trying to solve that involves RFC 892?

as indicated in previous post ... somewhat minor nit; rfc892 was a
draft dec. 1983 ... and was obsoleted in apr. 1984 by rfc905 if
nothing else, all references should be to rfc905 rather than rfc892.

also ... the notes from 905 would imply that it might be inappropriate
to ask any question related to the matter in any sort of tcp/ip forum.

from 905:

ISO Transport Protocol Specification
ISO DP 8073

Status of this Memo:       

This document is distributed as an RFC for information only.  It does
not specify a standard for the ARPA-Internet.

Notes:

1) RFC 892 is an older version of the ISO Transport Protocol
Specification.  Therefore this RFC should be assumed to supercede RFC
892.

2) This document has been prepared by retyping the text of
ISO/TC97/SC16/N1576 and then applying proposed editorial corrections
contained in ISO/TC97/SC16/N1695.  These two documents, taken
together, are undergoing voting within ISO as a Draft International
Standard (DIS).

.... snip ...

-- 
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
0
Anne
10/15/2005 12:53:14 AM
Vinodh Saigopal wrote:

> ha..ha.. good example.
> 
> My network knowledge is weak and i cud not get any clue of this Type A
> and B. The Type A and Type B I am worried about is that used in the
> Airline messages traffic - esp in ticketing.
>
> The so called experts i met cud not give me a satisfactory answer.
> 
> All i cud collect is the following from RFC 892.

I think you're looking in the wrong place for what you're describing.  Take
a look at RFC 2351 and google "MATIP".

> 
> 
>         Type A: Network connection with acceptable residual error
>                 rate (for example not signalled by 'clear' or 'reset')
>                 and acceptable rate of signalled failures.
> 
>         Type B: Network connections with acceptable residual error
>                 rate (for example not signalled by 'clear' or 'reset')
>                 but unacceptable rate of signalled failures.
> 
>         Type C: Network connections with residual error rate not
>                 acceptable to the TS-user.
> 
> Now another question raised in my mind.. what is residual error rate
> and signalled error rate?
> 
> I got answer for one..
> 
> undetected error ratio: The ratio of the number of bits, unit elements,
> characters, or blocks incorrectly received and undetected, to the total
> number of bits, unit elements, characters, or blocks sent. Synonyms
> residual error rate, undetected error rate
> 
> Anyone can help me with definition of signalled error rate?
> 
> Rgds,
> Vinodh.

-- 
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
0
J
10/23/2005 9:02:34 PM
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