On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:

> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).

Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l" (Greek Small Letter Mu,
Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html

However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.

So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.

Regards,
-- 
RPM

Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
> 
>> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).
> 
> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
> standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
> correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l" (Greek Small Letter Mu,
> Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
> https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html
> 
> However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
> which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.
> 
> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.
> 
> Regards,

This is usenet, not a mailing list.


-- 
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).
>> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
>> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
>> standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
>> correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l" (Greek Small Letter Mu,
>> Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
>> https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html
>>
>> However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
>> which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.
>>
>> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
>> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
>> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
>> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.
>>
>> Regards,
> 
> This is usenet, not a mailing list.
> 
> 

There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those 
who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no 
longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.

Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).
>>> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
>>> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
>>> standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
>>> correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l" (Greek Small Letter Mu,
>>> Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
>>> https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html
>>>
>>> However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
>>> which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.
>>>
>>> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
>>> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
>>> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
>>> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>> 
>> This is usenet, not a mailing list.
>> 
>> 
> 
> There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those 
> who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no 
> longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.

Yeah, there are lots of groups with a mail gateway.

That doesn't change the fact the base is a usenet news group.


-- 
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).
>>>> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
>>>> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
>>>> standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
>>>> correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l" (Greek Small Letter Mu,
>>>> Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
>>>> https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html
>>>>
>>>> However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
>>>> which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.
>>>>
>>>> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
>>>> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
>>>> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
>>>> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>> This is usenet, not a mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>> There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those 
>> who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no 
>> longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.
> 
> Yeah, there are lots of groups with a mail gateway.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact the base is a usenet news group.
> 
> 
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>> Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).
>>>>> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
>>>>> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
>>>>> standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
>>>>> correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l" (Greek Small Letter Mu,
>>>>> Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
>>>>> https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html
>>>>>
>>>>> However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
>>>>> which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.
>>>>>
>>>>> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
>>>>> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
>>>>> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
>>>>> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>> This is usenet, not a mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those 
>>> who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no 
>>> longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.
>> 
>> Yeah, there are lots of groups with a mail gateway.
>> 
>> That doesn't change the fact the base is a usenet news group.
>> 
>> 
> Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the case of comp.protocols.time.ntp, AIR the mailing list came first.

But that's irrelevant.


-- 
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
[]
> There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those
> who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no
> longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.

There are free text-only news providers out there, and low-cost 
subscription ones.  Just because one ISP drops news servers it shouldn't 
be a problem for anyone.

BTW: I consider this a Usenet newsgroup, with an add-on mailing list, but 
that's probably just because it's how I started.  Is there any reason why 
NNTP per-se should mangle non-ASCII characters?  I always write ASCII "u" 
rather than the Greek "mu", but that's mainly laziness!

Cheers,
David 

David J Taylor wrote:
> 
> There are free text-only news providers out there, and low-cost 
> subscription ones.  Just because one ISP drops news servers it shouldn't 
> be a problem for anyone.

Quite.  A lot of people also use Google groups.

> 
> BTW: I consider this a Usenet newsgroup, with an add-on mailing list, but 
> that's probably just because it's how I started.  Is there any reason why 

It's also my understanding that the newsgroup came first.

> NNTP per-se should mangle non-ASCII characters?  I always write ASCII "u" 
> rather than the Greek "mu", but that's mainly laziness!

NNTP is just one transport used for USENET, although I'm not actually 
aware of any transports still in use that are not eight bit clean for
non-control characters.

Ryan Malayter wrote:
> 
> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF

On the USENET side, you had these headers, which are mutually incompatible:

    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant, or is it
> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list

The fault is arising in the gateway or your MUA.

> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.

Strictly speaking, there is no standard that permits non-ASCII material 
on USENET, although the de facto position is that MIME is permitted. 
There are still some important USENET user agents that are not MIME 
aware and USENET can get transported over non-TCP channels.

>Quite.  A lot of people also use Google groups.

A lot of people ignore/drop everything from google-groupes
because they emit too much spam.

-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.

Hi there


David Woolley wrote:

<Cut>

> Strictly speaking, there is no standard that permits non-ASCII material 
> on USENET, although the de facto position is that MIME is permitted. 
> There are still some important USENET user agents that are not MIME 
> aware and USENET can get transported over non-TCP channels.

 From RFC 3977;
Although the protocol specification in this document is largely
compatible with the version specified in RFC 977 [RFC977], a number
of changes are summarised in Appendix D.  In particular:

  o  the default character set is changed from US-ASCII [ANSI1986] to
    UTF-8 [RFC3629] (note that US-ASCII is a subset of UTF-8);

That's transport, not content.
For content the RFC refers to MIME.


Regards,
Rob

David J Taylor wrote:
> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> []
>> There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those
>> who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no
>> longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.
> 
> There are free text-only news providers out there, and low-cost 
> subscription ones.  Just because one ISP drops news servers it shouldn't 
> be a problem for anyone.
> 
> BTW: I consider this a Usenet newsgroup, with an add-on mailing list, but 
> that's probably just because it's how I started.  Is there any reason why 
> NNTP per-se should mangle non-ASCII characters?  I always write ASCII "u" 
> rather than the Greek "mu", but that's mainly laziness!

Thank you.  I REALLY didn't want to have to learn to read Greek!  And 
who knows how the computer would render Greek characters if you did send 
them!!

Hi there


Ryan Malayter wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
> 
>> That may be what you expect, but you can get it 1usec (1 micro second).
> 
> Is there something wrong with the mail gateway and Unicode? I posted
> my message as text/plain with charset=UTF-8, which has been an IETF
> standard for more than a decade. And my message does, in fact, appear
> correct with UTF-8 characters such as "l"

I see a 'l' (006C) here.

> (Greek Small Letter Mu,
> Unicode 03BC) in the list archives at:
> https://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2008-October/020235.html

Charsets contradict;
'META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"'
The transport charset is ISO-8859-1. Transport overrules content.
However, non ascii is encoded as '&#ddd;', where 'ddd' is de decimal 
Unicode value, so non ascii is legible anyway.

> However, all replies to my message were in 7-bit charset="us-ascii",
> which of course mangles the non-ASCII chasracters.
> 
> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant,

Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
So what does this look like?
Euro: €
mu: µ
z-caron: ž

> or is it
> the MUAs of the respondents that is at fault? If it is the list
> itself... well, isn't it absurd to restrict content of a mailing list
> to 7-bit us-ascii? It is 2008, not 1988.

Post 1999 software should support UTF-8.


Regards,
Rob

On 2008-10-27, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com <jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote:
> Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
> [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 26 lines snipped |=---]
>>>> There IS a mailing list for those who prefer mail to news or for those 
>>>> who don't have access to news.  Comcast has announced that it will no 
>>>> longer offer access to net news effective 28 October 2008.
>>> 
>>> Yeah, there are lots of groups with a mail gateway.
>>> 
>>> That doesn't change the fact the base is a usenet news group.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
>
> In the case of comp.protocols.time.ntp, AIR the mailing list came first.

The news-group pre-dates the mailing list by many, many, years.

-- 
Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org>
NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Richard B. Gilbert
<rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
> Thank you.  I REALLY didn't want to have to learn to read Greek!  And
> who knows how the computer would render Greek characters if you did send
> them!!

There is a 99.9% chance OS supports Unicode, and most likely so do
your fonts. The computer should render them perfectly.

I think the issue is with the mail-to-NNTP gateway, which seems to add
a 7-bit header to an 8-bit UTF-8 message, which is downright silly in
2008.

This is a technical forum. Mathematical and other symbols which are
very useful in such a setting. (N<, N#, B2, b, etc.) . UTF-8 supports
these well.

UTF-8 is supported by all modern MUAs, and all modern MTAs, and should
be supported by all news readers and servers as well.

UTF-8 also allows the names of many forum members to be displayed
properly, which is certainly common courtesy and not possible with
US-ASCII. There are, for example, lots of Germanic and Scandinavian
names amongst the participants, and it appears at least some of those
names would properly include umlauts (such as C<).

Finally, UTF-8 is at most a few percent larger than US-ASCII for
English text (only non-ASCII characters are multi-byte), so that is
not really a concern.

Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP gateway?
-- 
RPM

Rob van der Putten wrote:
[]
> Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
> So what does this look like?
> Euro: ?
> mu: �
> z-caron: z
[]
> Regards,
> Rob

Rob,

Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using 
Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.

Cheers,
David 

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> wrote:
> Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
> So what does this look like?
> Euro: 
> mu: 5
> z-caron: 

Interesting. The non-ASCII symbols in your message appeared just fine
to me, but I assume that is because we are both using the email list.

I received your message encoded as:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

> Post 1999 software should support UTF-8.

I am in total agreement, even though I am an "ugly American."

--
RPM

Hi there


David J Taylor wrote:

> Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using 
> Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.

You convert the text without stating the charset used, which makes non 
ascii unreadable.
This is probably an Outlook bug.


Regards,
Rob

Hi there


Ryan Malayter wrote:

> Interesting. The non-ASCII symbols in your message appeared just fine
> to me,

But your post doesn't;
The Content-type is text/plain; charset="windows-1252". The content 
encoding is 7bit.
Something is seriously broken.

> but I assume that is because we are both using the email list.

I'm not. I posted via news.xs4all.nl

> I received your message encoded as:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

The original Content-Transfer-Encoding is 8 bit.

> I am in total agreement, even though I am an "ugly American."

It's a standard. I would have to look up which one.


Regards,
Rob

Rob van der Putten wrote:
> Hi there
>
>
> David J Taylor wrote:
>
>> Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using
>> Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.
>
> You convert the text without stating the charset used, which makes non
> ascii unreadable.
> This is probably an Outlook bug.
>
>
> Regards,
> Rob

Rob,

I'm using Microsoft Outlook Express, not Outlook.  They are different 
products.

I didn't knowingly "convert" the text, and my own reply to you appeared 
with the correct characters displaying.  At least, it did on my own ISP's 
news server!  Whether it got corrupted on its way to you I don't know. 
Let me see what Google Groups shows.  Can't find your or my post there 
right now.

Your message shows:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

My message shows:
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response

Whether that's my newsreader or my ISP I don't know.  My program's Send 
settings include an option for UUencode or MIME, and it's currently set yo 
UUencode, if that helps.

Cheers,
David 

David J Taylor wrote:
> Rob van der Putten wrote:
> []
> 
>>Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
>>So what does this look like?
>>Euro: ?
>>mu: �
>>z-caron: z
> 
> []
> 
>>Regards,
>>Rob
> 
> 
> Rob,
> 
> Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using 
> Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.
> 
> Cheers,
> David 
> 
> 
they are botched in the cite from your reply. ( my mozillas guess is ISO8859-1 )

uwe

David J Taylor wrote:
> Rob van der Putten wrote:
> 
>>Hi there
>>
>>
>>David J Taylor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using
>>>Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.
>>
>>You convert the text without stating the charset used, which makes non
>>ascii unreadable.
>>This is probably an Outlook bug.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Rob
> 
> 
> Rob,
> 
> I'm using Microsoft Outlook Express, not Outlook.  They are different 
> products.
> 
> I didn't knowingly "convert" the text, and my own reply to you appeared 
> with the correct characters displaying.  At least, it did on my own ISP's 
> news server!  Whether it got corrupted on its way to you I don't know. 
> Let me see what Google Groups shows.  Can't find your or my post there 
> right now.
> 
> Your message shows:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> My message shows:
> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
> 
> Whether that's my newsreader or my ISP I don't know.  My program's Send 
> settings include an option for UUencode or MIME, and it's currently set yo 
> UUencode, if that helps.

my guess is OE converted to ISO8859-1 but did not tell anyone
( no encoding info in your post here. )

uwe

Uwe Klein wrote:
> David J Taylor wrote:
>> Rob van der Putten wrote:
>> []
>>
>>> Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
>>> So what does this look like?
>>> Euro: ?
>>> mu: �
>>> z-caron: z
>>
>> []
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob
>>
>>
>> Rob,
>>
>> Those characters display correctly on my NNTP feed from my ISP, using
>> Microsoft Outlook Express for news-reading.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>>
> they are botched in the cite from your reply. ( my mozillas guess is
> ISO8859-1 )
> uwe

Not here, they're not.  Enough off-topic from me, though, for now.

Cheers,
David 

Uwe Klein wrote:
[]
> my guess is OE converted to ISO8859-1 but did not tell anyone
> ( no encoding info in your post here. )
>
> uwe

Thanks, Uwe.  If there's a setting I have wrong, I'll gladly alter it.

Cheers,
David 

Hi there


David J Taylor wrote:

> Thanks, Uwe.  If there's a setting I have wrong, I'll gladly alter it.

Google;
Outlook Express, missing "charset=";
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.sys.hp.hardware/2005-09/msg00167.html

<Quote>
Your posting uses local language characters like u+umlaut, but
it does not contain the required MIME headers which specify the correct
character set (probably ISO-8859/1). You can fix this as follows:

Tools -> Options... -> Send -> News Sending Format -> Plain Text
Settings... You probably have "Message format" set to "Uuencode" (which
is some stupid OE default). If so, set it to "MIME", set "Encode text
using:" to "None" and do *not* set (i.e. no tic-mark) "Allow 8-bit
characters in headers".

You may want to set the "Mail Sending Format" the same.
</Quote>


Regards,
Rob

Rob van der Putten wrote:
[]
> Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?
> So what does this look like?
> Euro: €
> mu: µ
> z-caron: ž
[]
> Regards,
> Rob

Rob,

This is a second reply to your post, with Outlook Express set to MIME 
encoding as you suggested.  My e-mail settings were already set that way.

Thanks for your time in sorting this out, and my apologies to others who 
are probably bored silly!

David

On 2008-10-27, Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> wrote:

> Ryan Malayter wrote:
>
>> So is it the pipermail gateway that is not Unicode compliant,
>
> Does it just convert mail to news? On news to mail as well?

Pipermail is just Mailman's archive mechanism. It has _nothing_ to do
with the gateway.

> So what does this look like?

FWIW I received this article from my ISP's upstream news-server. Here
are the relevant headers:

| Path: kostecke.net!s02-b32!num01.iad!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com! \
| 	news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com! \
| 	cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nx02.iad.newshosting.com! \
| 	newshosting.com!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!xs4all! \
| 	transit4.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
| User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.17) \
| 	Gecko/20080829 Iceape/1.1.12 (Debian-1.1.12-1)
| MIME-Version: 1.0
| Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
| Subject: Re: list posts in UTF-8
| References: <5d7f07420810261914i4e6ebe47l61937e523065d3bc@mail.gmail.com>
| In-Reply-To: <5d7f07420810261914i4e6ebe47l61937e523065d3bc@mail.gmail.com>
| Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
| Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
| Lines: 47
| Message-ID: <4905bcfb$0$184$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
| X-Trace: 1225112827 news.xs4all.nl 184 [::ffff:aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]:4480

I am using slrn packaged for Debian Stable (version 0.9.8.1pl1-28) in
both a 'screen in ssh in an xterm' session and at an 80 column x 60 line
console (using using a font chosen for readability) and on the standard
80x25 Linux console.

> Euro: ?

This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.

> mu: �

This is a hex B5 and renders properly in the xterm and the 25 line
console. It looks like a squashed upper-case A with an acute accent on
the 60 line console.

> z-caron: ?

This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.

-- 
Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org>
NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

On 2008-10-27, Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP
> gateway?

It is not that simple.

-- 
Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org>
NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

Hi there


Steve Kostecke wrote:

> Pipermail is just Mailman's archive mechanism. It has _nothing_ to do
> with the gateway.

Anyone using the gateway?

<Cut>

> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I don't think news servers do charset conversions.

<Cut>

> I am using slrn packaged for Debian Stable (version 0.9.8.1pl1-28) in
> both a 'screen in ssh in an xterm' session and at an 80 column x 60 line
> console (using using a font chosen for readability) and on the standard
> 80x25 Linux console.

My 80x25 Linux console is UTF-8.

> This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.

Euro should be hex E2 82 AC

> This is a hex B5

Greek mu should be hex C2 B5

> and renders properly in the xterm and the 25 line
> console. It looks like a squashed upper-case A with an acute accent on
> the 60 line console.

> This is a hex 3F and renders as a question-mark everywhere.

z-caron should be hex C5 BE

I assume you are using ISO-8859-1 as your default locale. ISO-8859-1
does not contain a Euro or z-caron.


Regards,
Rob
-- 
Anglo-Saxon management is a memetic virus

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> wrote:

> But your post doesn't;
> The Content-type is text/plain; charset="windows-1252". The content
> encoding is 7bit.
> Something is seriously broken.

It certainly is, considering my message was a reply to your UTF-8
message. Gmail apparently sends *new* messages as UTF-8, but replied
to your UTF-8 with charset="windows-1252". That is seriously broken
behavior on Gmail's part.

However, replies to other UTF-8 messages in Gmail (email not
NNTP-to-email such as yours) seem to use UTF-8 just fine. Maybe the
huge stream of headers confused Gmail... the content-type header was
on line #61 in your post!

I'll have to check to see if I get the same behavior from Thunderbird.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org> wrote:
>> Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP
>> gateway?
>
> It is not that simple.

Apparently not, based on the variety of behaviors people have
reported. I'm sorry I brought it up, and will try to restrict myself
to the US-ASCII character set.
--
RPM

On 2008-10-27, Ryan Malayter <malayter@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> ATTRIBUTION MISSING wrote:
>>
>>> Is this just a setting that could to be changed on the email-to-NNTP
>>> gateway?
>>
>> It is not that simple.
>
> Apparently not, based on the variety of behaviors people have
> reported.

There is a 7-bit / 8-bit setting in the MIME processing portion of the
gateway (demime 1.1d). Although I have changed this to 8-bit there is
no guarantee that everything will work properly.

> I'm sorry I brought it up, and will try to restrict myself to the
> US-ASCII character set.

You are likely not aware of the historical back ground of the
comp.protocols.time.ntp newsgroup and the questions@ntp.org mailing
list.

The comp.protocols.time.ntp newsgroup was created on June 27th, 1990,
(see http://groups.google.com/group/comp.protocols.time.ntp/\
browse_thread/thread/606893475b5fc71d#).

The questions@ntp.org mailing list was created on July 18th, 2003 to
provide an e-mail interface to the newsgroup and initially used the
Mailman nntp gateway.

In mid 2005, following some heated discussion about broken article
threading (more contentious than the the coments in this thread), we
switched to my gateway implementation. Since then the current gateway
has handled over 16,500 articles. Although it thas been quite reliable,
the occasional issues which arise tend to be discussed in traditional
Usenet manner.

The gateway includes a MIME processor to prevent mailing list
subscribers from sending HTML, and other undesireable MIME entities, to
the newsgroup. We are currently using a customized version of demime
1.1d but an equivalent filter (or a suitably modified version of demime)
could be easily substituted if someone were willing to provide it.

-- 
Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org>
NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/