Hi, I would appreciate if someone could tell me the reason to use the
freeware ntpd rather than xntpd that is built into Solaris 8.  I have
searched but I can find no compelling argument.

Thank you in advance.

Sunil Gupta

Lockon wrote:
> Hi, I would appreciate if someone could tell me the reason to use the
> freeware ntpd rather than xntpd that is built into Solaris 8.  I have
> searched but I can find no compelling argument.

xntpd in Solaris is an older version of the freeware ntpd.

I'm not sure about this case, but, whilst strictly speaking, xntpd 
refers to the obsolete, version 3, of the freeware ntpd, some vendors, 
possibly Sun, thought they would confuse people less by keeping the old 
name.  In reality it causes great confusion.

The reason for using a current version, rather the old, or very old 
snapshot, is basically less bugs and better algorithms.

On 2009-07-27, Lockon <sunilgupta65@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would appreciate if someone could tell me the reason to use the
> freeware ntpd

What you are referring to as the "freeware ntpd" is actually The NTP
Reference Implementation from The NTP Project at the University of
Delaware. This is the original, and definitive, implementation of NTP.

The NTP Project home-page is http://www.ntp.org/

> rather than xntpd that is built into Solaris 8.

The "xntpd" in Solaris 8 is based on NTP 3.x from The NTP Project and
uses NTP Protocol version 3. This version of NTP is no longer maintained by
The  NTP Project.

The current releases of The NTP Reference Implementation utilize NTP
Protocol version 4 and include many refinements, enhancements, and bug
fixes not present in earlier releases. The current releases are:

	* Stable: ntp-4.2.4p7 2009/05/18
	* Development: ntp-dev-4.2.5p195 2009/07/27 

-- 
Steve Kostecke <kostecke@ntp.org>
NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

Thank you for the detailed explanation!

To get my feet wet, I may like to start with the built-in version;
however, will the version 3 protocol client communicate with the
current servers out there (presumably they all run protocol version
4)?

Thanks
Sunil


On Jul 27, 4:59=A0pm, Steve Kostecke <koste...@ntp.org> wrote:
> On 2009-07-27, Lockon <sunilgupt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would appreciate if someone could tell me the reason to use the
> > freeware ntpd
>
> What you are referring to as the "freeware ntpd" is actually The NTP
> Reference Implementation from The NTP Project at the University of
> Delaware. This is the original, and definitive, implementation of NTP.
>
> The NTP Project home-page ishttp://www.ntp.org/
>
> > rather than xntpd that is built into Solaris 8.
>
> The "xntpd" in Solaris 8 is based on NTP 3.x from The NTP Project and
> uses NTP Protocol version 3. This version of NTP is no longer maintained =
by
> The =A0NTP Project.
>
> The current releases of The NTP Reference Implementation utilize NTP
> Protocol version 4 and include many refinements, enhancements, and bug
> fixes not present in earlier releases. The current releases are:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 * Stable: ntp-4.2.4p7 2009/05/18
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 * Development: ntp-dev-4.2.5p195 2009/07/27
>
> --
> Steve Kostecke <koste...@ntp.org>
> NTP Public Services Project -http://support.ntp.org/

Lockon wrote:
> Thank you for the detailed explanation!
>
> To get my feet wet, I may like to start with the built-in version;
> however, will the version 3 protocol client communicate with the
> current servers out there (presumably they all run protocol version
> 4)?
>   
Version 4 servers will respond to version 3 requests and version 4 
clients can be forced to speak version 3 protocol.

Lockon wrote:
> Hi, I would appreciate if someone could tell me the reason to use the
> freeware ntpd rather than xntpd that is built into Solaris 8.  I have
> searched but I can find no compelling argument.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> Sunil Gupta

The version of xntpd distributed with Solaris 8 is eight to ten years 
old now!

A lot of work has been done on ntpd (the "x" is no longer used). 
Features have been added, bugs have been fixed, etc.  The current 
version of ntpd is V4.x.  I don't know what x=.

A committee is writing a new RFC to document NTPD V4.  If memory serves 
me, it has been at least 18 months now.  Perhaps in four or five years 
they will finish a draft that they call all agree on.  I am not going to 
hold my breath!

The version distributed with Solaris 8 is old but still works.  A new 
version MIGHT work better.  You can download the current version from 
the website: http://www.ntp.org

Lockon <sunilgupta65@gmail.com> writes:

>Hi, I would appreciate if someone could tell me the reason to use the
>freeware ntpd rather than xntpd that is built into Solaris 8.  I have
>searched but I can find no compelling argument.

xntp is ntpd 3 as far as I know. The current ntp is ntp 4 which has a
lot of improvements and changes. ntp4 is the only version which is
supported. 

Now of course what arguments you find compelling is an open question.



>Thank you in advance.

>Sunil Gupta

Unruh wrote:

> 
> xntp is ntpd 3 as far as I know. The current ntp is ntp 4 which has a
> lot of improvements and changes. ntp4 is the only version which is
> supported. 

I assume that Sun support the NTP V3 implementation that they supply, 
and wouldn't support the current one, installed lcoally.

David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.co.uk.invalid> writes:

>Unruh wrote:

>> 
>> xntp is ntpd 3 as far as I know. The current ntp is ntp 4 which has a
>> lot of improvements and changes. ntp4 is the only version which is
>> supported. 

>I assume that Sun support the NTP V3 implementation that they supply, 
>and wouldn't support the current one, installed lcoally.

And exactly what Sun support do you expect to get? Sun is not an expert
on ntp.

"Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:k4Hbm.38535$PH1.26625@edtnps82...
> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>> Unruh wrote:

>>> xntp is ntpd 3 as far as I know. The current ntp is ntp 4 which has a
>>> lot of improvements and changes. ntp4 is the only version which is
>>> supported.
>
>> I assume that Sun support the NTP V3 implementation that they supply,
>> and wouldn't support the current one, installed lcoally.
>
> And exactly what Sun support do you expect to get? Sun is not an expert
> on ntp.

"NTP? Oh, you should look <here>, then." Substitute predictable website,
mailing list, or newsgroup.

Groetjes,
Maarten Wiltink

Unruh wrote:
> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.co.uk.invalid> writes:
> 
>> Unruh wrote:
> 
>>> xntp is ntpd 3 as far as I know. The current ntp is ntp 4 which has a
>>> lot of improvements and changes. ntp4 is the only version which is
>>> supported. 
> 
>> I assume that Sun support the NTP V3 implementation that they supply, 
>> and wouldn't support the current one, installed lcoally.
> 
> And exactly what Sun support do you expect to get? Sun is not an expert
> on ntp.

Well, as the Sun NTP lead engineer, let me just say "Hurrumph"!

But more to the point, Solaris 8 is no longer supported. It is a 
perfect match, an ancient OS with an ancient NTP version.

Really, why are you using Solaris 8? Use OpenSolaris. It comes with 
NTP 4.2.5p172 already installed and fully supported.

Brian Utterback

Brian Utterback <brian.utterback@sun.com> writes:

> Unruh wrote:
>> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.co.uk.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> Unruh wrote:
>>
>>>> xntp is ntpd 3 as far as I know. The current ntp is ntp 4 which has a
>>>> lot of improvements and changes. ntp4 is the only version which is
>>>> supported. 
>>
>>> I assume that Sun support the NTP V3 implementation that they supply, and
>>> wouldn't support the current one, installed lcoally.
>>
>> And exactly what Sun support do you expect to get? Sun is not an expert
>> on ntp.
>
> Well, as the Sun NTP lead engineer, let me just say "Hurrumph"!

Hi Brian!

I was expecting you to say something ;-)

>
> But more to the point, Solaris 8 is no longer supported. It is a perfect
> match, an ancient OS with an ancient NTP version.
>
> Really, why are you using Solaris 8? Use OpenSolaris. It comes with NTP
> 4.2.5p172 already installed and fully supported.

Really? I just saw Solaris 10 with ntp 3.5.93e (FAIR), but Sun tried
hard to hide the version string.

Ulrich

Ulrich Windl wrote:
> Brian Utterback <brian.utterback@sun.com> writes:

>> Really, why are you using Solaris 8? Use OpenSolaris. It comes with NTP
>> 4.2.5p172 already installed and fully supported.
> 
> Really? I just saw Solaris 10 with ntp 3.5.93e (FAIR), but Sun tried
> hard to hide the version string.
> 
> Ulrich

OpenSolaris (/dev) has 4.2.5 today. The current OpenSolaris released 
version (/release) has the older xntpd 3.5.93e, but will get the newer 
  one when /dev rolls into /release in a couple of months. All Solaris 
versions from Solaris 2.6 to Solaris 10 have the 3.5.9e NTP, but 
Solaris 10 Update 8 (scheduled for release in two months) will have 
both xntpd 3.5.9e and ntpd 4.2.5 co-existing (but not both configured. 
One or the other please!)

But the comment still stands. Solaris 8 is at End of Support Life. 
Nobody should deploy anything new on it, and should seriously consider 
  moving to something much newer. Consider that Solaris 8 will have no 
new security patches made available for it. (At least not for free. 
There are some customers willing to pay a premium for continued support.)

Brian.

Brian Utterback wrote:
> Ulrich Windl wrote:
>> Brian Utterback <brian.utterback@sun.com> writes:
> 
>>> Really, why are you using Solaris 8? Use OpenSolaris. It comes with NTP
>>> 4.2.5p172 already installed and fully supported.
>>
>> Really? I just saw Solaris 10 with ntp 3.5.93e (FAIR), but Sun tried
>> hard to hide the version string.
>>
>> Ulrich
> 
> OpenSolaris (/dev) has 4.2.5 today. The current OpenSolaris released 
> version (/release) has the older xntpd 3.5.93e, but will get the newer 
>  one when /dev rolls into /release in a couple of months. All Solaris 
> versions from Solaris 2.6 to Solaris 10 have the 3.5.9e NTP, but Solaris 
> 10 Update 8 (scheduled for release in two months) will have both xntpd 
> 3.5.9e and ntpd 4.2.5 co-existing (but not both configured. One or the 
> other please!)
> 
> But the comment still stands. Solaris 8 is at End of Support Life. 
> Nobody should deploy anything new on it, and should seriously consider 
>  moving to something much newer. Consider that Solaris 8 will have no 
> new security patches made available for it. (At least not for free. 
> There are some customers willing to pay a premium for continued support.)
> 
> Brian.

Some shops have make a massive effort to upgrade.  I can recall a major 
upgrade of another O/S that consumed 3,000 man hours in building test 
systems, installing and testing the new O/S and the latest versions of 
everything.

The system was business critical and had to be available each and every 
business day.  Saturday morning we broke all the mirror sets, installed 
the new software and tested it AGAIN.  8:00AM Monday morning arrived 
faithfully with the new version up and running.  In early afternoon we 
felt secure enough with the new software that we resilvered the mirrors 
and committed ourselves!

If things had gone wrong we would have booted using the untouched halves 
of the mirror sets and been back where we started.