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EPS Prepress For Large Format Graphics From MS Publisher -- Yikes!

Greetings.

I am with a small company that is going to a trade show and we'd like
to create some large format banners and posters.  Actually, for a
small company, we make a good showing and we expect to get a good
number of leads for our efforts.

But what efforts!  So far our efforts to create some great graphics
have been very frustrating.  And what we want to do is something not
so unusual!

WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN READING THIS STORY:  Anyone using MS
Publisher to create large format graphic objects typically for a trade
show.

PROBLEM: Enormous difficulty in getting a file out of MS Publisher and
into a format which our printing house can use.

WHY MS PUBLISHER? For simple jobs, Publisher works quite well and is
not too expensive.  We are not full-time graphics professionals --
we're in the software business.

WHAT OBJECTS ARE TO BE CREATED?  We want (1) a roll-able
vinyl-lettered banner about 8 feet by 2.5 feet (will be vinyl cut and
stuck) and (2) a pair of posters on foamcore at 20" X 40" (includes
bit-mapped graphics and will be ink-jet printed).

WHAT FORMATS DOES SHOP WANT? The shop can use the following formats:

1) All PDF (tied for 1st choice).
2) All Encapsulated Postscript [EPS] (tied for 1st choice).
3) All JPEG (2nd choice).

I suggested as well that TIFF would likely be usable in their
environment but they are not fond of it and especially can't use it
for vinyl cutting specs.  The shop itself is fairly sophisticated and
I want to conform as much as possible to their requirements.

BRIEFLY WHAT HAPPENED TODAY?

    PDF file production failed.
    EPS file production failed.
    TIFF and JPEG file production succeeded.

IN DETAIL WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH THE PDF AND EPS SITUATIONS?

I only have a low end PDF printer utility (WIN2PDF, quite nice for
document production from Word).  I decided that given my experience
with the software, which although positive, which lead me to believe
that it would not handle the large format, I would not even try to
create PDFs.

As for Encapsulated Postscript, I really thought this would work,
after reading various news group entries and the documentation.  I set
up the Microsoft commercial PS printer driver successfully.  And then
printed from it a small test.  Using Ghostscript, I was able to verify
that this method worked -- at least for the small sample, which it
turned out, was misleading.

The Microsoft output for EPS does not seem to support anything larger
than a normal 8.5 X 11 inch page.  I could not figure out how to get
the Microsoft PS printer driver to understand that it needed to output
a larger page.

WHAT RESEARCH WAS DONE?

1. Lots of newsgroup reading.
2. Lots of online help/manual reading.
3. Talked to supplier and associates.
4. Subbed question (not yet answered) to Microsoft.
5. Talked to pre-sales at Adobe.

FINAL RESULT

Fortunately, my supplier called part way through the day and suggested
that they could use JPEG, otherwise I was in trouble.  The JPEGs took
quite a while to produce, but it seems that the files are usable.

OTHER AVENUES

I've also installed the Adobe PS driver and generic PPD, which gives
you the option of printing to EPS.  Of course, you can do this without
a real printer, when you print to file.  But again, I do not see how
to get the software to realize that you want an 8 foot banner.

SUMMARY OF PROBLEM

Need a reliable method of creating a full-size EPS output file in
support of very large graphic objects.  This output file would be
usable by graphics houses to manufacture large posters and banners. 
And it seems to be the format of choice around here.

The input from any knowledgeable person, either in terms of a final
answer, or in terms of guidance concerning how to properly frame the
question, will be much appreciated, and I'm sure not just by me.

It crosses my mind that (a) MS Publisher is popular and (b) lots of
people might want to make professionally-produced banners and posters.
 Therefore, there is likely a constituency for some guidance on these
question.

Hey, maybe there's already a FAQ somewhere!  And one "check box" that
I've overlooked!

Thank you.

John
0
jhmorris (3)
4/16/2004 12:33:00 AM
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John you need to understand Publisher (pity you did not post the version =
you were attempting to use) is HIGHLY tied to the installed printer =
driver.  When you try to go outside of those printer driver parameters, =
you are deep Deep DEEP in the poo.  In Publisher 2003 you are even =
deeper in the poo EPS/PS when the file sizes get large for spooling.  I =
do not want to take anything way from Publisher, as generally it is a =
good program, however, step outside of the parameters and you are up the =
creek without a paddle and EPIRB.

The program you need to do your job is Serif PagePlus 9.0 which has CMYK =
and PDF all built in as standard and none of the limitations of =
Publisher, as well as *GREAT* drawing and effect tools, along with =
useable 3D options.  I cannot stress how powerful and useable the =
drawing and effect tools are in PagePlus 9.0

--=20

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"
------=_NextPart_000_0294_01C423A7.CC8A9000
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>John you need to understand Publisher (pity you did not post the =
version=20
you were attempting to use) is HIGHLY tied to the installed printer=20
driver.&nbsp; When you try to go outside of those printer=20
driver&nbsp;parameters, you are deep Deep DEEP&nbsp;in the poo.&nbsp; In =

Publisher 2003 you are even deeper in the poo EPS/PS when the file sizes =
get=20
large for spooling.&nbsp; I do not want to take anything way from =
Publisher, as=20
generally it is a good program, however, step outside of the parameters =
and you=20
are up the creek without a paddle and EPIRB.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The program you need to do your job is <A=20
href=3D"http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus9/index.asp">Serif =
PagePlus 9.0=20
</A>which has CMYK and PDF all built in as standard and none of the =
limitations=20
of Publisher, as well as *GREAT* drawing and effect tools, along with =
useable 3D=20
options.&nbsp; I cannot stress how powerful and useable the drawing and =
effect=20
tools are in PagePlus 9.0</DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR><BR>"If you don't know where you are going,<BR>any road =
will=20
take you there!"</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0294_01C423A7.CC8A9000--

0
donotknock (23)
4/16/2004 1:41:47 AM
JMorris <jhmorris@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> PROBLEM: Enormous difficulty in getting a file out of MS Publisher and
> into a format which our printing house can use.

The real problem is your experience in graphic arts.

Publisher is capable of creating exactly what you want it you know and
work with the limitations of the program.

The output doesn't need to be bigger than 8 1/2 x 11.

You are erroneously thinking that you need to make your file the size of
the final output. You don't. We can scale at outupt.

For vinyl cut letters you must create a vector file. You cannot use a
bitmap image. Most sign shops lack the technical ability to convert your
file to a properly stroked Illustrator file (which is what they want.)

For large format printing you need a postscript file and it works best
in RGB, odd coincidence that Publisher's output (except for the recent
pos called Pub 2003) is in rgb.

At my shop we do this on a daily basis.

So this problem has little to do with Publisher's limitations. It has
everything to do with your limitations.

I strongly suggest you hire a professional.
0
leeb (1197)
4/16/2004 10:45:59 AM
jhmorris@sympatico.ca (JMorris) wrote:
>
>I've also installed the Adobe PS driver and generic PPD, which gives
>you the option of printing to EPS.  Of course, you can do this without
>a real printer, when you print to file.  But again, I do not see how
>to get the software to realize that you want an 8 foot banner.

The "Generic" printer driver is a feature free driver designed to work
in all cases. It therefore does not support any sizes other than those
found in all printers.

"Printing" to EPS is rarely a good way of making EPS.  If an
application doesn't directly support EPS export, look for other
methods.

Why not just design the poster at a regular page size. Surely the shop
can scale an EPS?  
----------------------------------------
Aandi Inston  quite@dial.pipex.com http://www.quite.com
Please support usenet! Post replies and follow-ups, don't e-mail them.

0
quite (1321)
4/16/2004 12:28:55 PM
Using:

Publisher 2003
Windows XP Pro
384 MB memory
0
jhmorris (3)
4/16/2004 12:37:16 PM
Yip, I thought so.  EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it fails
to create the output file.
No show for a fix yet.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/16/2004 12:41:31 PM
A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from
���MS�Publisher��� <donotknock@nobodyhome.com>!"...
> Yip, I thought so.  EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it
> fails to create the output file.
> No show for a fix yet.

David,
Can you find an example of a Publisher file that refuses (in your
experience) to go to EPS or PostScript from Publisher, ZIP it and email it
to my reply address, please?
Thanks.

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher
http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/
Before reading this message, view the disclaimer:
http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm


0
the_nerd (7)
4/16/2004 2:14:37 PM
1. for the inkjet, produce your piece at reduced page size (it is important
that it be proportional!) in this case a 20x40 would scale at about 5" x
10". With the PostScript from this the print provider will have no problem
if they are capable people.

2. for the cut vinyl, the software that drives these gadgets can be quite
fussy. If it is just lettering, it world probably be fastest/cheapest to let
them set it or just give then the copy they can copy-paste. If graphics in
there, it gets more complicated because these gadgets operating on only 1
color at a time...they are not color printers. Best to ask what they need
and let them do the heavy lifting.

Actually, for banners inkjet will often produce a better looking piece.
After it's rolled and stored and unrolled several times, cut letter banners
start to get letters lifting off whereas printed banners continue to look
great.

As for PDF production, you will have to invest the proper funds for the
proper tools.

Would you build a house in the city using a hatchet and a hacksaw? No. You'd
need the tools for the job. And Acrobat is the Gold Standard.

Or you could sub the PDF production job out.

None of the probelms you are hitting are Publisher related.

(jpg or any other bitmap format is not the answer!)


0
mactno2221 (33)
4/16/2004 5:16:03 PM
Ed you dummmmmmy it is in the MSKB

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/17/2004 12:26:21 AM
Re: "...
EPS has a bug
...."

It seems that this is "true" ONLY in M$ Pubslasher ...











"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in message
news:eRscqA7IEHA.3444@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Yip, I thought so.  EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it fails
> to create the output file.
> No show for a fix yet.
>
> --
>
> "If you don't know where you are going,
> any road will take you there!"
>
>


0
4/17/2004 1:21:25 AM
RSD99 thankfully there are only a handful of moooorons like you around.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/17/2004 2:18:36 AM
HeHeHeHeHe ...

STILL trying to propagate your BULL-SHEITE ... DavidA? Wonders never cease!

HeHeHeHeHe ...

PS - I'll ALWAYS be more intelligent, better educated, and well "ahead" of you! ... and
.... BTW ... "EPS" has very few bugs, none of which are anything to do with what you have
referred to when you posted:

     EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it fails
     to create the output file.
     No show for a fix yet.

That's a Micro$loth Pub$lasher BUG ... not a "bug in EPS" [otherwise known as
"Encapsulated PostScript"], which is well understood and "ISO Standardized" by the "rest
of the world" (that is, the "Real World" outside of Micro$cum).



Oh ... and BTW ... you might consider taking a course in basic ... elementary school level
.... writing skills, such as sentence structure and how to write a complete sentence, from
your local "continuation school" (or, in your case, probably the "remedial school"). It
will make your USENET postings much more understandable by the rest of the world.

Cheers and Such







"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in message
news:O1XVPJCJEHA.3704@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> "If you don't know where you are going,
> any road will take you there!"
>
>


0
4/17/2004 6:42:50 AM
RSD99 you failed duuuuuumy you cannot even comprehend and understand Englise

RSD99 if you had 1% of my intelligence and wealth you would be doing well.

RSD99 you failed forker I never said EPS had a bug.

RSD99 go to Iraq and get a job there and do something for your country - for
once.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/17/2004 7:00:52 AM
On 17 Apr 2004 01:42, "RSD99" <rsdwla.NOSPAM@gte.net> wrote:
>HeHeHeHeHe ...

>That's a Micro$loth Pub$lasher BUG ... not a "bug in EPS" [otherwise 
>known as "Encapsulated PostScript"], which is well understood and "ISO Standardized"
>by the "rest
>of the world" (that is, the "Real World" outside of Micro$cum).

RSD, the Publisher team is looking at addressing this EPS issue in the
SP1 release of Publisher 2003. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/17/2004 10:42:55 AM
A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from
���MS�Publisher��� <donotknock@nobodyhome.com>!"...
> Ed you dummmmmmy it is in the MSKB

I knooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow that it is in the MSKB.
Can you do what I ask anyway?  Please?

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher
http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/
Before reading this message, view the disclaimer:
http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm


0
the_nerd (7)
4/17/2004 11:12:10 AM
Ed stop going to bed kissing and canoodling with RSD99 and getting
his/her/its diseases.
You are bad enough without any extras.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/17/2004 11:19:55 AM
A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from
���MS�Publisher��� <donotknock@nobodyhome.com>!"...
> Ed stop going to bed kissing and canoodling with RSD99 and getting
> his/her/its diseases.
> You are bad enough without any extras.

I take it then, that you are not going to email me a file which you are
unable to generate PostScript output from through Publisher due to the
issues described in the KB article?
Would you mind telling me why?

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher
http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/
Before reading this message, view the disclaimer:
http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm


0
the_nerd (7)
4/17/2004 11:31:28 AM
Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough you
fooool.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/17/2004 11:48:18 AM
"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in 
news:OK33lHHJEHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:

> Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough you
> fooool.
> 

Can we get this juvenile crap out of CPP
0
4/17/2004 11:53:53 AM
<Brian> wrote:

> RSD, the Publisher team is looking at addressing this EPS issue in the
> SP1 release of Publisher 2003. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Maybe they can fix the installer for PUB 2003 so it actually installs a
usable postscript printer driver.

It's a sign of the stupidity of this program that it has the driver on
the disk and then doesn't install it leaving the user to go find it
later.

And then once that driver is installed it has the same problems that
Publisher has when using a previously installed driver such as the
Scitex PS/M or Dolev 800 driver.

Using either of these two drivers causes text reflows and now so does
the new driver that is the supposed savior of this wretched piece of
shit program.

Don't ask me to be the Publisher debugging tool. 

I will not start emailing files and pointing out how to make this
program better to a company ( or it's shills) that doesn't appear to
care about quality.

Very simple QA procedures such as actually trying to do what the program
claims to do would have pointed all of this out.

It's not like the Scitex driver is an odd printer drive rarely used to
write composite CMYK PS.

Before you claim that this must be a local issue please take note:

This problem happend on a virgin install of XP Pro (formatted and
installed, not an upgrade) and a new copy of Publisher 2003. Both were
purchased at the same time at Compusa.

NOTHING ELSE INSTALLED ON THE BOX.

Now if MS can't duplicate that in their QA department then they should
get out of the business.

I think the problem might get better if MS tries documents with fonts
other than Times and Arial.

Gee, people use other fonts than the TT fonts that come installed with
the operating system? How odd.

Who woulda thunk it.
0
leeb (1197)
4/17/2004 12:34:13 PM
A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from
���MS�Publisher��� <donotknock@nobodyhome.com>!"...
> Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough
> you fooool.

You have tried and it bounced?
How big is the file?

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher
http://www.mvps.org/the_nerd/
Before reading this message, view the disclaimer:
http://mvps.org/the_nerd/disclaim.htm


0
the_nerd (7)
4/17/2004 1:00:49 PM
"either of these two drivers causes text reflows" - you are talented getting
that to happen.  I don't think that is correct.

Look you need to realise there is NO NO NO NONE NONE NONE quality control at
MS and nobody gives a shit as all they want to do is get the product out the
door for more profit.
Microsoft never ever listen and have an arrogant idea that they know better
than anybody else.  Nobody worth their salt will work for MS anymore and
consequently they end up with all the failed dummy programmers that need
hand holding and bum wiping.  They would never question anything as they
have no idea about much.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/17/2004 1:09:39 PM
HeHeHeHeHe ...

Idiot

HeHeHeHeHe ...




"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in message
news:uN6Y$mEJEHA.2452@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> RSD99 you failed duuuuuumy you cannot even comprehend and understand Englise
>
> RSD99 if you had 1% of my intelligence and wealth you would be doing well.
>
> RSD99 you failed forker I never said EPS had a bug.
>
> RSD99 go to Iraq and get a job there and do something for your country - for
> once.
>
> --
>
> "If you don't know where you are going,
> any road will take you there!"
>
>


0
4/17/2004 3:51:26 PM
"Mike Powell" <nospamthankyou@optimapprreess.com.au> wrote in message
news:Xns94CECA6C75795Aussieprepressguy@203.59.27.131...
> "���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in
> news:OK33lHHJEHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
>
> > Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough you
> > fooool.
> >
>
> Can we get this juvenile crap out of CPP

But ... But ... it makes us look so mature and professional!!


0
peggy443 (117)
4/17/2004 5:39:02 PM
Mike Powell wrote:

> "���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in 
> news:OK33lHHJEHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:
> 
> 
>>Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough you
>>fooool.
>>
> 
> 
> Can we get this juvenile crap out of CPP

Why start now? :)


....Jono
0
jonomsp (185)
4/17/2004 8:27:23 PM
leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
> ( or it's shills) that doesn't appear to 
>care about quality.

Well, then I shall not reply to you with the answer. I will only reply
to those that are able to refrain from name calling/prejudices. Have a
nice day.
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/19/2004 4:18:39 PM
<Brian> wrote:

> leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
> > ( or it's shills) that doesn't appear to 
> >care about quality.
> 
> Well, then I shall not reply to you with the answer. I will only reply
> to those that are able to refrain from name calling/prejudices. Have a
> nice day.
> Brian Kvalheim
> Microsoft Publisher MVP
> http://www.mvps.org/publisher
> 
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Brian,

You're the guy who learned me that word, thanks to John Doherty.

But tell us,

Why is Publisher at the bottom of the heap of applications prepress
departments would like to get?

It's been out for years now and it's still an undesirable format to
receive data in. 

Can it now accept an eps image for placement on a page?

Has it's programmers made any effort to embrace any of the de-facto
standards that are widespread in our industry?

LIke, not using the driver to do the postscript and actually composing
the postscript from the application?

What is the excuse that the programmers and marketing wizzes of this
product use to justify not investing the time to write better
postscript?

Is it, they're gonna get the market anyway so they don't have to do a
good job?

Microsoft doesn't have enough money to pay programmers to write the
code?

There aren't people smart enough in Microsoft to figure out how to do
it?

Their focus groups of secretaries and CEO's haven't yet asked for the
feature?

What could possibly be the reason?
0
leeb (1197)
4/19/2004 6:58:59 PM
On 19 Apr 2004 13:58, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
>You're the guy who learned me that word, thanks to John Doherty.

John did learn you that word yes, however, a shill does not relate to
me. But it must be common for *usenet folks to call people names just for
the sake of doing so?
>Why is Publisher at the bottom of the heap of applications prepress 
>departments would like to get?

As opposed to what?

>It's been out for years now and it's still an undesirable format to 
>receive data in.

Why?

>Can it now accept an eps image for placement on a page?

It always has.

>Has it's programmers made any effort to embrace any of the de-facto 
>standards that are widespread in our industry?

Such as? (Remember, Publisher is not in the same market as the Adobe/Quark/Corel
product line).
>LIke, not using the driver to do the postscript and actually composing 
>the postscript from the application?
>
>What is the excuse that the programmers and marketing wizzes of this 
>product use to justify not investing the time to write better 
>postscript?

Lee, overall you have dissatisfaction with Publisher. And since you refuse
to offer a specific set of repro steps or a sample file, it will be impossible
for us to determine what the cause of his text reflow problem or your other
postcript issues. You mention the problem is the printer driver, but you
don't explain how you know or what the symptoms were. You later mention
that the text reflow is caused by fonts, but again you don't explain how
you know or what the symptoms are.
>What could possibly be the reason?

Not sure yet. You are not willing to help. However, I am. Isn't that what
the usenet is all about?
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/19/2004 7:19:54 PM
On 19 Apr 2004 13:58, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
>What could possibly be the reason?

1. Opening a publication created with an earlier version of Pub - There
are minor changes to text engine each version, so text will render slightly
differently. (We are investigating ways to warn commercial print shops
of this in Pub12.)
2. Font substitution on file open - If print shop has a different version
of fonts than document creator and fonts are not embedded, then text may
reflow. This will not occur with any fonts that Publisher ships, only with
3rd party fonts. (We are investigating ways to warn commercial print shops
of this in Pub12.)
3. Font substitution at print - If printer driver is set to substitute
TrueType fonts with Type1 fonts, then text will reflow. (Shouldn't happen
unless prepress operator changes the default setting in the Advanced Print
Settings dialog.)
4. Changing the paper size, which can change the page size. (We are investigating
ways to change this behavior in Pub12.)
These are known text reflow issues presented to me by the Publisher team.
An FYI for you.

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/19/2004 7:24:17 PM
<Brian> wrote:

> On 19 Apr 2004 13:58, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
> >You're the guy who learned me that word, thanks to John Doherty.
> 
> John did learn you that word yes, however, a shill does not relate to
> me. But it must be common for *usenet folks to call people names just for
> the sake of doing so?
> >Why is Publisher at the bottom of the heap of applications prepress 
> >departments would like to get?
> 
> As opposed to what?
> 
> >It's been out for years now and it's still an undesirable format to 
> >receive data in.
> 
> Why?

Your comments at this point represent to me, a complete state of denial.

I listed some very specific questions. 

You danced around them, You refuse to acknowledge that pusblisher is the
bane of prepress. I will grant you that my questions had a anti
Publisher rhetorical bent to them. I couldn't resist.

But anyway, there is no point to really discussing the subject with you.

You are a Microsoft Evangelist.

To me, at least,  you seem to view this product through a veil of
religous devotion.

READ: I really don't think you are being honest or objective.
0
leeb (1197)
4/19/2004 11:12:36 PM
On 19 Apr 2004 18:12, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
>READ: I really don't think you are being honest or objective.

I am being honest. Let me know if you are interested in giving me a phone
call, and we can go over your issues in person per se and I can write down
your findings and hopefully I can also receive a problematic file from
you as well via email.
Objective, I am. I asked you for information that you are not willing
to provide. There isn't much more I can say. If Publisher is failing in
an area, I am just looking to get it fixed or improved. The Publisher team,
including their newly hired Quark program manager visit prepress shops
routinely, so they have no problems taking the time to find issues and
address them, such as the ones you have encountered. Let me know! Thanks
again Lee.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/19/2004 11:20:54 PM
<Brian> wrote:

>  I asked you for information that you are not willing
> to provide. 

I asked you to explain why publisher and it's programmers after years of
being a program have decided not to, refused to, or whatever...

Create postscript from the application, not the driver.

I'll give you one more chance.

I listed some options for you but this time in your own words tell us
why Microsoft has decided on this path.
0
leeb (1197)
4/20/2004 11:05:18 AM
On 20 Apr 2004 06:05, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
><Brian> wrote:
>
>>  I asked you for information that you are not willing to provide.
>
>I asked you to explain why publisher and it's programmers after years 
>of being a program have decided not to, refused to, or whatever...
>
>Create postscript from the application, not the driver.

From Microsoft: Publisher never had a built in PostScript Engine and instead
relied on the installed PS Driver to provide the PS Output.  Building a
PostScript Engine was estimated as requiring all DEV resources for a given
version\release.  Offering such a release or version of Publisher would
almost have no benefit to our end-users thus resulting in no reason for
our target end-users to purchase this version or upgrade.
>I'll give you one more chance.

lol

>I listed some options for you but this time in your own words tell us 
>why Microsoft has decided on this path.

I don't have all the facts, so I can't give it to you in MY words. It
would be pointless to give it to anyone on MY words as it is not my product.

Now let's go back to the issues THAT YOU have discovered and see what
we can do to address those.
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/20/2004 2:49:42 PM
FWIW: The question being discussed is:

"... Publisher never had a built in PostScript Engine and instead
relied on the installed PS Driver to provide the PS Output.  ..."

"Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]"  posted Micro$loth's "party line" that
"... Offering such a release or version of Publisher would
almost have no benefit to our end-users thus resulting in no reason for
our target end-users to purchase this version or upgrade.
...."

NOTE the phrase "... our target end-users ..."

First:
This essentially defines the Micro$cum "Target End-User(s)" to be the Micro$crew Orifice
"crowd."

Second:
This is one of the main reasons why the real-world printing and prepress world / users do
*not,* and never will,  consider Micro$loth Pub$lasher to be a serious
(professional-level) product. As long as Micro$illy continues to use a GDI-based "printer
driver" arrangement, Pub$lasher will NOT be a professional-level product ... and it will
*not* have professional-level capabilities.

Re: "... why Microsoft has decided on this path ..."

IMHO: Because Micro$loth doesn't give a DAMN about the professional-level publishing
marketplace, and is concentrating on the much larger (in their mind) "Orifice-Suite"
market.

My $0.02 worth.














"Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]" <bkvalheim@publishermvps.com> wrote in message
news:45999a22845046eca84a9cee357dc141@ghytred.com...
> On 20 Apr 2004 06:05, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
> ><Brian> wrote:
> >
> >>  I asked you for information that you are not willing to provide.
> >
> >I asked you to explain why publisher and it's programmers after years
> >of being a program have decided not to, refused to, or whatever...
> >
> >Create postscript from the application, not the driver.
>
> From Microsoft: Publisher never had a built in PostScript Engine and instead
> relied on the installed PS Driver to provide the PS Output.  Building a
> PostScript Engine was estimated as requiring all DEV resources for a given
> version\release.  Offering such a release or version of Publisher would
> almost have no benefit to our end-users thus resulting in no reason for
> our target end-users to purchase this version or upgrade.
> >I'll give you one more chance.
>
> lol
>
> >I listed some options for you but this time in your own words tell us
> >why Microsoft has decided on this path.
>
> I don't have all the facts, so I can't give it to you in MY words. It
> would be pointless to give it to anyone on MY words as it is not my product.
>
> Now let's go back to the issues THAT YOU have discovered and see what
> we can do to address those.
> Brian Kvalheim
> Microsoft Publisher MVP
> http://www.mvps.org/publisher
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
>


0
4/20/2004 4:34:47 PM
On 20 Apr 2004 11:34, "RSD99" <rsdwla.NOSPAM@gte.net> wrote:
>FWIW: The question being discussed is:
>First:
>This essentially defines the Micro$cum "Target End-User(s)" to be the 
>Micro$crew Orifice "crowd."
>
>Second:
>This is one of the main reasons why the real-world printing and 
>prepress world / users do
>*not,* and never will,  consider Micro$loth Pub$lasher to be a serious
>(professional-level) product. As long as Micro$illy continues to use a 
>GDI-based "printer driver" arrangement, Pub$lasher will NOT be a 
>professional-level product ... and it will
>*not* have professional-level capabilities.

It is not a professional-level product. Maybe you have not figured that
out yet? Publisher isn't attempting to be a professional-level product.


Lee and RMD,

Here is some more information in regards to Publisher and it's intended
audience:
"Publisher's "target customer" is the small business owner/marketer. They
usually output to inkjet printers that don't use PostScript (they are PCL
or GDI based). Even if they own a PostScript printer, it is probably tuned
to use composite RGB output, which the Windows printer driver will do pretty
well. So our target customers would not get much benefit if Publisher were
to output PostScript natively rather than through the Windows printer driver."

Some more 411 in regards to apps that output PS: It took Quark about 4
years to get their driver to work well, and until XPress 6 it was limited
to PS level 1 features. Adobe has stopped development in PostScript (version
3 was released in 1997 with no upgrades since then).
A better approach is to find each problem with our current PostScript
output (including incompatibilities with Acrobat Distiller) and address
those bugs. Do you have a specific scenario that are blocked or bug(s)
that you want fixed? Please tell us, we definitely want to know what the
problems are."

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/20/2004 5:06:04 PM

Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] wrote:

<snip>
> A better approach is to find each problem with our current PostScript
> output (including incompatibilities with Acrobat Distiller) and address
> those bugs. Do you have a specific scenario that are blocked or bug(s)
> that you want fixed? Please tell us, we definitely want to know what the
> problems are."
> 
> Brian Kvalheim
> Microsoft Publisher MVP
> http://www.mvps.org/publisher
> 
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
> 
> 
> 
The real problem, from our standpoint anyway, is that people purchase 
this admittedly low end product and expect to do high end offset/flexo 
printing from it.
We have to, in turn, get it into high end software to get it ready for 
press. Therein lies the rub.
A method for these people to send the file to an editable pdf or eps 
would be grrrreeeeat.
Of course forcing me to buy it so that I can use workarounds adds to the 
bottom line, therefore counter productive.

Wendell

0
me22158 (272)
4/20/2004 5:40:33 PM
On 20 Apr 2004 12:40, Wendell <me2@privacy.net> wrote:

>A method for these people to send the file to an editable pdf or eps 
>would be grrrreeeeat.

Which can be done with the level 3 PS printer driver that is included
with Publisher. However, it is of our interest to find out what the problems
that are ecountered using this option. Text reflow issues, etc.?!

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/20/2004 5:46:32 PM
 posted:
"...It is not a professional-level product. Maybe you have not figured that
out yet? Publisher isn't attempting to be a professional-level product.
...."

Brian, this is an EXACT 180 DEGREE REVERSAL in your personal position of a year (or so)
ago ... incidentally ... to the position I tried to get you to admit at that time.

Namely, that Micro$illy Pub$lasher is *NOT* a professional-level product.









"Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]" <bkvalheim@publishermvps.com> wrote in message
news:1d8e73638d6e41c994c2a63355bf29d0@ghytred.com...


0
4/20/2004 6:35:13 PM
On 20 Apr 2004 13:35, "RSD99" <rsdwla.NOSPAM@gte.net> wrote:
> posted:
>"...It is not a professional-level product. Maybe you have not figured 
>that out yet? Publisher isn't attempting to be a professional-level product.
>...."
>
>Brian, this is an EXACT 180 DEGREE REVERSAL in your personal position 
>of a year (or so) ago ... incidentally ... to the position I tried to 
>get you to admit at that time.

Wrongo!

Look at my history in these newsgroups. I am the SAME person who a year
ago copy/pasted the paragraph from the Publisher PREPRESS manual that STATES
that they are not trying to compete with the professional products and
it is not intended to be a PROFESSIONAL DTP product.
AGAIN RSD, it is YOU that insist I say it, and it is ME that continually
says that it is NOT. It is me that continues to point out that even MS
says it is not, and says so RIGHT in their prepress manual. In fact, here
is a refresher for you:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=brian%2Brsd99%2Bprofessional%2Bdtp&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Opmgl1zsBHA.1772%40tkmsftngp07&rnum=1

In the year 2002 (February), Brian says:

"> > > It's not Microsoft that is arrogant. They are supplying a $99 program.
If
> > > they wanted a full DTP program, they could surely do so and offer the
> > > program at $350 - $700. That is not their goal. We are talking high end and
> > > low end. Publisher never claimed to be high end.

In the year 2002 (February), Brian says:

"> I beg to differ. There is not anything on the box stating that it IS
a high
> end DTP program."

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=brian%2Brsd99%2Bprofessional%2Bdtp&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=euQN3QZ4BHA.2460%40tkmsftngp07&rnum=3

In the year 2002 (April), Brians says:
"Publisher is not intended to compete with high-end Desktop Publishing
(DTP) products such as PageMaker, Quark, or InDesign. Publisher does not
have all of the commercial printing features that the high-end products
have."
AND RSD, I noticed that you went suspiciously quiet after Pub2003 introduce
the CMYK composite output. Not to mention did you comment on the printers
who have using it successfully when they posted so in the prepress newsgroup.
Can you answer to that too?
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/20/2004 7:09:00 PM
There is absolutely no issue whatsoever outputting high quality work to get
offset printed in Publisher.
It is only failed poorly educated dummies that are in the printing industry
like the spineless gutless runt RSD99.
When printers get properly educated and trained, it will not be an issue.
Because the education standards are so low for printers, may I suggest they
go to the awesome printing school in Bhopal, India.
No wonder so much work is getting shipped offshore from the US as they have
to many incompetent poorly educated runts and fools in the printing
industry.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/20/2004 7:13:02 PM
RSD99 poorly educated runts like you is what is causing the crumbling of the
US printing industry.
Don't worry, the good folk in India, Singapore, Taiwan are happy for all the
printing work America sends them.
US industry is closing down daily and been shipped offshore to quality
educated workers.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/20/2004 7:15:43 PM
Brian you cannot reason with trash poorly educated runts like RSD99.
Don't waste your time on trash brainless spineless runts of the printing
industry.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/20/2004 7:18:32 PM
HeHeHeHeHe ...




Oh ... and regarding
"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"

It's obvious you don't know where you are, where you are going, and won't know when you've
gotten there.

PLEASE take my advice and enroll in your local continuation school, "Beginning English
Composition" is the suggested subject.

Now ... QUIT cross-posting to the professional forum(s).





"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in message
news:eWv#bvwJEHA.2604@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...


0
rsdwla (1)
4/20/2004 11:04:34 PM
<Brian> wrote:

> From Microsoft: Publisher never had a built in PostScript Engine and instead
> relied on the installed PS Driver to provide the PS Output.  Building a
> PostScript Engine was estimated as requiring all DEV resources for a given
> version\release.  Offering such a release or version of Publisher would
> almost have no benefit to our end-users thus resulting in no reason for
> our target end-users to purchase this version or upgrade.

Those words ring hollow to me. It's like listening to Ken Lay of enron
claim he didn't know about accounting irregularities.

Or like listening ot gun companines claim they thought anybody would
actually be harmed by their product.

It's spin.

Microsoft knows what a page layout program is and what it will be used
for. They know damm well that small business owners aren't going to run
their catalogs off on deskjet printers.

In my opinion, given the wealth of microsoft in money and human
resources it can only boil down to a decision that they don't need to do
a good job. That being mediocre is ok.

It's worse than being mediocre.

The first publisher I used was back in 1997. It is now 2004. By my math
that's 7 years. 

For those 7 years the outcry from prepress departments about publisher's
performance in our departments can't be denied.

I have to question the honesty of someone that would claim there was no
resounding complaint.

My assertion that publisher is at the bottom of the heap of applications
that the majority of prepress operators would like to receive seems to
have been sidestepped by you.

I guess you response is that Microsoft never intended Publisher to end
up in prepress department.

I find that laughable.

The very name of Microsoft Publisher suggests that is it a publishing
tool. Nowhere on the box do I see any warnings that it can't be used for
professional work.

The entire package looks as if it's being targeted at consumers who want
to make publications and get them printed. There's instructions about
preparing work for professional pinters.

If they didn't intend for it to be used for that then why is that stuff
in the documentation? NOTE: There certainly is no warnings posted
anywhere the the program the consumer is using is the bane of the
industry that they will have to interface with.

I would ask any member of this group to take this little test:

List the following applications in order of your preference to receive
data in:

Quark
Indesign
PageMaker
Illustrator
Framemaker
Freehand
MS Publisher

So I guess the answer it Publisher sucks because Microsoft never
intended for it to be good.
0
leeb (1197)
4/20/2004 11:25:57 PM
On 20 Apr 2004 18:25, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
>So I guess the answer it Publisher sucks because Microsoft never 
>intended for it to be good.

So you don't have any samples or scenarios that show your issues that
you have found. Can you provide any? --
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/21/2004 12:18:57 AM
Give it up, Lee. Brian is never going to admit that

a) the prepress and press industry despise MS Publisher (and my
experience goes back to 1993), and

b) we despise it for good reason.

Simply refuse MS Pub jobs, and tell the customer bringing them to you
to call Microsoft and complain.

djb

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 12:46:22 AM
On 20 Apr 2004 19:46, Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca>
wrote:
>Give it up, Lee. Brian is never going to admit that

Do you have some samples or scenarios to reproduce issues that you have
discovered? --
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/21/2004 12:53:44 AM
What these dummies like RSD and others fail to realise, I have been
outputting high quality offset printed work from Publisher starting version
2.0.  If you know what you are doing, it has never been an issue.  When
utilities like QABOT and Enfocus Pitstop arrived on the scene, it certainly
made life easier.

If the large majority of the rank amateur fools involved in the printing
industry went and got some proper education or did some research, they would
not dribble their puerile diarrhoea around here or anywhere else.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/21/2004 1:14:00 AM
In article <2ad57f87ac60498e81ad66b749d9db79@ghytred.com>, Brian
Kvalheim - [MS MVP] <bkvalheim@publishermvps.com> wrote:

> Do you have some samples or scenarios to reproduce issues that you have
> discovered? 

I have no current samples or scenarios. 10 years ago I decided never
again to accept a Publisher file and I have been happily MS Publisher
free ever since.

But if you're looking for a litany of them, may I suggest a search at
groups.google.com on keywords "MS Publisher" or "Microsoft Publisher"
and "sucks" will fill your requirement.

Don't restrict the usenet hierarchy you search on, though. It's
absoolutely amazing where the complaints pop up! And the date range! 

djb

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 1:39:17 AM
In article <udaBw3zJEHA.208@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>, ���MS�Publisher���
<donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote:

> If the large majority of the rank amateur fools involved in the printing
> industry went and got some proper education or did some research, they would
> not dribble their puerile diarrhoea around here or anywhere else.

And if the people who make claims like yours had the cojones to post
using their real names, they might get taken seriously.

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 1:40:31 AM
On 20 Apr 2004 20:39, Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca>
wrote:
>In article <2ad57f87ac60498e81ad66b749d9db79@ghytred.com>, Brian 
>Kvalheim - [MS MVP] <bkvalheim@publishermvps.com> wrote:
>
>> Do you have some samples or scenarios to reproduce issues that you 
>> have discovered?

Did you know that 10 years ago Publisher didn't have color seps, fonts
manger, CMYK Composite, Pantone selection, Save As PS, Trapping options,
registration settings, job details, color ramps, crop marks, etc? :-)
>
>I have no current samples or scenarios. 10 years ago I decided never 
>again to accept a Publisher file and I have been happily MS Publisher 
>free ever since.
>
>But if you're looking for a litany of them, may I suggest a search at 
>groups.google.com on keywords "MS Publisher" or "Microsoft Publisher"
>and "sucks" will fill your requirement.

I find thousands of results when search for Adobe+Sucks and PageMaker+Sucks
and Quark+Sucks :-)
But my concern is to find the problems from the more vocal ones such as
yourself. It is puzzling that there are prepress/commercial printers out
there that are successfully using Publisher in their environment and others
are not. So others might have a different flow, which is where Publisher
is stumbling, or better yet, the press operator is stumbling. In either
case, scenarios and samples are best.
The thing I think prepress individuals should look at this is:

1. There are Publisher home/small business users. They create items for
print. They bring in their *.pub file to you, the printer.
2. You the printer qualifies for a free copy of Publisher (that includes
EVERY release) for your shop so that you can take these native files direct
from the consumer. Once you have the file, you as the printer outputs the
file from your copy of Publisher that was given to you by Microsoft. The
Microsoft Publisher team has included the following features in Publisher
to help you publish these items from Publisher:
1. Save as PS
2. PS Level 3 Printer Driver on your free Publisher CD
3. CMYK Composite output
4. Color Seps
5. Limited trap settings (Publisher Team assumes that printers use their
own preferred third party trap tools) 6. PrePress Manual
7. Free online listing as a printer who accepts Publisher files (which
is 4000+ and growing) 8. Pantones

So these tools, which are free to you, should help you to assist consumers.
If there is a problem from the output of the *.ps after being distilled,
etc., we need to find what the problem is. If it is something else, we
need to know.
And most importantly, consumers should know to contact the printer prior
to creating a publication for print so they can educate themselves and
learn how their printer outputs.
I too in the past have output Publisher files without issues, but it took
some education on my part, as well as some of my customers. Our shop to
date still outputs them, and we make a great margin, and still have great
output.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.

--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/21/2004 2:11:46 AM
Dave just so damn interesting how you poorly uneducated printing dummies
fall out of trees when the trees are given a shake.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/21/2004 2:15:25 AM
On 4/20/04 8:14 PM, in article udaBw3zJEHA.208@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl,
"���MS�Publisher���" wrote:

> If the large majority of the rank amateur fools involved in the printing
> industry went and got some proper education or did some research, they would
> not dribble their puerile diarrhoea around here or anywhere else.

Okay, I'll bite.

That very statement paints an extremely revealing picture of your experience
in the professional output of files for commercial offset printing. Matisse
was a better artist, and, IMO, that isn't saying much.

Those of us who spend our spare time in cpp are, quite often, professionals
with the responsibility of correcting files for final output to imagesetters
and platesetters with the intention of putting the resulting plates onto a
printing press. The amount of technological experience, education, and
research required is beyond your comprehension, so your claim that we are
"rank amateur fools" is not valid. You must be a troll.

You apparently have no concept of what takes place in a print shop, or
service bureau, if you have to ask for specific examples of the problems
that Publisher causes. Silly boy. Try it for yourself, and all will be
revealed.

Have fun promoting the piece of shit you love and endorse.

Publisher sux!!!!

Tim


0
tmonk1 (342)
4/21/2004 2:18:41 AM
But for someone like me, who has happily made te decision to ignore the
uneducated unskilled people who somehow have been led to believe that
all they need to be a designer and "publisher" is an inkjet printer and
"Publisher", the "features" and "free copy" are irrelevant.

If there are 4000+ "printers" who accept Publisher files, then more
power to them. They're welcome to all the Publisher files they can get.

I'm not interested in the "Publisher home/small business users" as a
market segment because they are, in general:

a) ignorant of, and uninterested in learning what is required to
produce a quality product, and

b) looking to get the cheapest possible job in the shortest period of
time from someone whose job they don't understand but they're convinced
is ripping them off because "you just put it in the computer and print
it, right?".

I'm happy to have them go somewhere else. They're worth neither the
time nor the effort.

djb

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 2:28:29 AM
In article <esuMFa0JEHA.2452@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, ���MS�Publisher���
<donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote:

> Dave just so damn interesting how you poorly uneducated printing dummies
> fall out of trees when the trees are given a shake.

LOL!

You're filling a much need gap, asshole. Buh-bye.

djb

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 2:30:04 AM
Dave B well why bother even posting.

We do not need fifth rate uneducated fools from the printing industry like
you around here.

P I S S off and leave us alone.
-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/21/2004 2:33:45 AM
All,

I have been lurking, mainly because I do not use Pub. But I have a 
question that needs to be answered. Are you Pub haters - wait, make that 
denigrators - saying there is no way, no matter the skill of the user, 
to produce a Pub 2003 file that is useable in a professional prepress 
environment? Or are you saying that the average Pub user cannot do it? 
There is a big difference. I have Quark and PageMaker and I dare say if 
I tried to put together a newspaper using either of them, my printer 
would reject every file I sent, because I didn't do things right. But 
then, I don't use these programs every day,  I don't know their 
weaknesses or what to avoid.

Contrary to what Brian says, from my limited experiences with Pub (I 
said I don't use it, but I have it to handle incoming ads and I get a 
few every now and then), I can get press ready output from almost every 
file I have received. Yeah, there are the idiots who want to use wizards 
to build the file and it makes fixing them a PITA, but it can be done. 
But hey, if I have to spend 10 minutes and get $140 for it, I'm okay 
with that.

Lee, I read your post (rant) about installing Pub and trying to install 
drivers. I'm not quite the pro you are, I simply print the Pub file to 
pdf and use it. I'm sure this must not be "professional" because it is 
too easy and doesn't require a lot of skill or brain power. So when the 
client sent me the ad, I made a pdf. Oh, I forgot to mention, I made a 
little over $500 for my five minutes of work.

I'm sure I am missing something. But I'm not sure exactly what. I have 
read thread after thread about how Quark, ID, Illy and other files 
submitted to you great ones have problems, but they are usually ID 10 T 
errors, never the fault of the program. But every Pub file that doesn't 
run out perfectly is because of the designer, not the program.

Can you do me a favor? Reply explaining what problems you have 
outputting a Pub file that is created by an experienced user. I'm 
confident Brian or David or someone else can submit a file for you to 
try, just in case your customers are not quite up to par. But please 
type slowly, as I must be dense since I do not get the results you 
professionals get.

Thanks,

Mike



Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <2ad57f87ac60498e81ad66b749d9db79@ghytred.com>, Brian
> Kvalheim - [MS MVP] <bkvalheim@publishermvps.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Do you have some samples or scenarios to reproduce issues that you have
>>discovered? 
> 
> 
> I have no current samples or scenarios. 10 years ago I decided never
> again to accept a Publisher file and I have been happily MS Publisher
> free ever since.
> 
> But if you're looking for a litany of them, may I suggest a search at
> groups.google.com on keywords "MS Publisher" or "Microsoft Publisher"
> and "sucks" will fill your requirement.
> 
> Don't restrict the usenet hierarchy you search on, though. It's
> absoolutely amazing where the complaints pop up! And the date range! 
> 
> djb
> 

0
wordwiz (162)
4/21/2004 2:45:57 AM
In article <4085E065.2010005@fuse.net>, Mike Koewler <wordwiz@fuse.net>
wrote:

> wait, make that 
> denigrators - saying there is no way, no matter the skill of the user, 
> to produce a Pub 2003 file that is useable in a professional prepress 
> environment?

In my experience, the market that MS has aimed the product at is one
that, in general, has neither the expertise nor the desire to gain said
expertise to produce professional level files.

I'm certain that in the right hands quality files can be produced (I
had one client that did amazing things with CorelDraw 3, for instance,
and his .prn files *always* ripped and separated flawlessly. Another
couldn't produce a black plate to save his ass), but that has not (in
my experience and opinion) been the hands that MS has marketed to.

Publisher is positioned *BY MICROSOFT* as a "consumer" product and not
a "professional" product.

The result in the professional community was *not* unpredictable.

djb

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 2:51:16 AM
In article <OFluUk0JEHA.2452@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, ���MS�Publisher���
<donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote:

> We do not need fifth rate uneducated fools from the printing industry like
> you around here.

But... I thought MS Publisher was the perfect tool...

No, wait.

That's you.

Oops. My mistake.

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 2:53:06 AM
Dave,

A follow-up, if you don't mind. If Pub were to sell for say $400-800, 
ala Quark or Indy, would that make it acceptable, since idiot or new 
users would probably shy away from it? Are you saying MS is wrong for 
offering a product at an inexpensive price that can be used by 
professionals and newbies alike?

Mike

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <4085E065.2010005@fuse.net>, Mike Koewler <wordwiz@fuse.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>wait, make that 
>>denigrators - saying there is no way, no matter the skill of the user, 
>>to produce a Pub 2003 file that is useable in a professional prepress 
>>environment?
> 
> 
> In my experience, the market that MS has aimed the product at is one
> that, in general, has neither the expertise nor the desire to gain said
> expertise to produce professional level files.
> 
> I'm certain that in the right hands quality files can be produced (I
> had one client that did amazing things with CorelDraw 3, for instance,
> and his .prn files *always* ripped and separated flawlessly. Another
> couldn't produce a black plate to save his ass), but that has not (in
> my experience and opinion) been the hands that MS has marketed to.
> 
> Publisher is positioned *BY MICROSOFT* as a "consumer" product and not
> a "professional" product.
> 
> The result in the professional community was *not* unpredictable.
> 
> djb
> 

0
wordwiz (162)
4/21/2004 3:53:28 AM
In article <4085F038.8020702@fuse.net>, Mike Koewler <wordwiz@fuse.net>
wrote:

> A follow-up, if you don't mind. If Pub were to sell for say $400-800, 
> ala Quark or Indy, would that make it acceptable, since idiot or new 
> users would probably shy away from it? Are you saying MS is wrong for 
> offering a product at an inexpensive price that can be used by 
> professionals and newbies alike?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that MS, through their development
and marketing efforts for Publisher have, either deliberately or
through a complete mis-read, created an environment where the
professional publishing and pre-press industry has little to no
interest in MS Publisher, and that "newbies" seem to think that buying
Publisher means they can produce files that can stand as peers to those
produced by pros using pro-level software.

I honestly don't see how MS can recover (except as they always seem to
do... buy the competing products and kill them </sarcasm>) and move
Publisher beyond the low-end consumer product that they've spent so
long marketing it as.

Put it this way... If Microsoft thinks that Publisher can compete with
products at the $800 price point, why are they foregoing all that
revenue? Why aren't they at the major publishing conferences (Nexpo,
Seybold, etc) pushing MSP as an alternative to Xpress, Indesign,
Creator, Ventura, Frame, Draw...?

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 4:11:12 AM
Dave,

Thank you for your thoughts. From what you have written, MS hasn't done 
anything wrong, except capitalize on idiots who look for a low cost 
product but somehow expect it to perform like one that is high-end.

I can agree with that, but I cannot find fault with MS for its actions. 
I know, there will always be those who blame Phillip Morris for causing 
cancer, because they make a product that used, as designed, may cause 
health problems (and have for many people). But the bottom line, as a 
capitalist, is that this isn't a fault of MS. The program works as 
advertised. It's the users who are idiots.

Thanks for taking time to respond and help me prove my point.

Mike

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <4085F038.8020702@fuse.net>, Mike Koewler <wordwiz@fuse.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>A follow-up, if you don't mind. If Pub were to sell for say $400-800, 
>>ala Quark or Indy, would that make it acceptable, since idiot or new 
>>users would probably shy away from it? Are you saying MS is wrong for 
>>offering a product at an inexpensive price that can be used by 
>>professionals and newbies alike?
> 
> 
> No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that MS, through their development
> and marketing efforts for Publisher have, either deliberately or
> through a complete mis-read, created an environment where the
> professional publishing and pre-press industry has little to no
> interest in MS Publisher, and that "newbies" seem to think that buying
> Publisher means they can produce files that can stand as peers to those
> produced by pros using pro-level software.
> 
> I honestly don't see how MS can recover (except as they always seem to
> do... buy the competing products and kill them </sarcasm>) and move
> Publisher beyond the low-end consumer product that they've spent so
> long marketing it as.
> 
> Put it this way... If Microsoft thinks that Publisher can compete with
> products at the $800 price point, why are they foregoing all that
> revenue? Why aren't they at the major publishing conferences (Nexpo,
> Seybold, etc) pushing MSP as an alternative to Xpress, Indesign,
> Creator, Ventura, Frame, Draw...?
> 

0
wordwiz (162)
4/21/2004 4:35:25 AM
In article <4085FA0D.4030001@fuse.net>, Mike Koewler <wordwiz@fuse.net>
wrote:

> Thanks for taking time to respond and help me prove my point.

You actually believe that?

LOL!

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 4:39:07 AM
"���MS�Publisher���"  posted
"... like the spineless gutless runt RSD99...."

Careful ... Mr. David Allenberg ... your lack of intelligence and poor education is
showing. Additionally, you have made some ASSumptions that are not true.






"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in message
news:#YKlDuwJEHA.3428@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...


0
4/21/2004 6:17:03 AM
Dave B is anything the PERFECT tool of course not.

Oh geezzz I see you are one of the those damn canacanackers always
subservient to your American masters.
We have great pity on you poor canacanackers.  The Asians came in and took
all your economy away while you were sleeping.  They slipped in through the
front door and out the back door with your economy.  Now you are reduced to
spamming pornography and paedophilia for economy.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/21/2004 6:47:11 AM
Talk about "fuzzy thinking" ...





"���MS�Publisher���" <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote in message
news:#wtO9x2JEHA.3184@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Dave B is anything the PERFECT tool of course not.
>
> Oh geezzz I see you are one of the those damn canacanackers always
> subservient to your American masters.
> We have great pity on you poor canacanackers.  The Asians came in and took
> all your economy away while you were sleeping.  They slipped in through the
> front door and out the back door with your economy.  Now you are reduced to
> spamming pornography and paedophilia for economy.
>
> --
>
> "If you don't know where you are going,
> any road will take you there!"
>
>


0
4/21/2004 6:55:04 AM
RSD99 what is it like to be such a sick demented runt of society.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/21/2004 7:32:58 AM
<Brian> wrote:

> On 20 Apr 2004 18:25, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
> >So I guess the answer it Publisher sucks because Microsoft never 
> >intended for it to be good.
> 
> So you don't have any samples or scenarios that show your issues that
> you have found. Can you provide any? --
> Brian Kvalheim
> Microsoft Publisher MVP
> http://www.mvps.org/publisher
> 
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

NO.

I am not going to be your QA department.

You certainly need one.

I have already lost too much money as a result of this program. I am not
going to further my losses with no apparent gain by dearchiving the jobs
and providing you and your associate (MS) with the data for quality
assurance that you should already have after so many years.

If Microsoft is interested they can rent my time and come into my shop
and sit at a computer and run the Publisher work that comes in.

But then why aren't they setting up a QA department where they write the
software?
0
leeb (1197)
4/21/2004 10:02:09 AM
Mike Koewler <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote:

> Lee, I read your post (rant) about installing Pub and trying to install
> drivers. I'm not quite the pro you are, I simply print the Pub file to
> pdf and use it. I'm sure this must not be "professional" because it is
> too easy and doesn't require a lot of skill or brain power. So when the
> client sent me the ad, I made a pdf. Oh, I forgot to mention, I made a
> little over $500 for my five minutes of work.

These comments are pre- pub 2003

Printing composite only produced RGB postscript. Too many man hours
spent in Pitstop and Scitex re-coloring.

Characters dropped at end of lines.

Using the Scitex or Acrobat Distiller drivers type would clip in text
boxes. It was as if the tracking was extended but the text box wasn't. 

If you never saw this, I don't believe you've ran enough Publisher. It
was consistent with the Scitex and Distiller driver.

Word Art? Chance of success with Word Art is worse than a flip of a
coin.

Rotated text? Almost never works. Just drops out.

Post Pub 2003.

Waste of time and money.

I converted the box to FreeBSD to develope web applications and practice
PHP and PERL. A much more rewarding experience. The copy and XP and
Pub2003 currently sit on a shelf.

We are seriously considering no longer supporting Publisher at all. I
will install Pub 2003 on a W2K box and see it it's any better.

But I think in the long run and in the interest of making a profit I'll
have to suggest Publisher users go elsewhere.

I'm not sure where they'll go since we are one fo the few places that
will accept it in my state.

I can also look at attaching a sur-charge for it. Something like double
the price if it's Publisher.

Microsoft should just sell a copy of Acrobat with each Publisher and
have a direct PDF export.

Publisher might have a place in the color copy output where separations
are not required. I'm not in that business and don't intend to be.

I recently had a printer call and ask if we could take a publisher file
and make a pdf for them.

I said yes but the charge would be hefty. 
For the 4 page document I want 300 dollars to do it.
0
leeb (1197)
4/21/2004 10:02:10 AM

Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] wrote:
<snip>
> 2. You the printer qualifies for a free copy of Publisher (that includes
> EVERY release) for your shop so that you can take these native files direct
> from the consumer. 
> <snip again>
> --
> Brian Kvalheim
> Microsoft Publisher MVP
> http://www.mvps.org/publisher
> 
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
> 
> 
We purchased our copy in order to accept .pub files and convert them. I 
didn't realize that there was an offer to printers of free copies.
How do we qualify and get a copy?

Wendell

0
me22158 (272)
4/21/2004 12:00:40 PM
On 21 Apr 2004 07:00, Wendell <me2@privacy.net> wrote:
>We purchased our copy in order to accept .pub files and convert them. I 
>didn't realize that there was an offer to printers of free copies.
>How do we qualify and get a copy?

Hi Wendell, the program is free to all commercial printers. It's called
the PSPP program: http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/preview.aspx?AssetID=HA010772371033&CTT=98

In addition, you get free unlimited commercial printing support with a
dedicated support number for commercial printers.
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/21/2004 12:12:46 PM
On 21 Apr 2004 05:02, leeb@digitalgraphics.net (Lee Blevins) wrote:
><Brian> wrote:
>If Microsoft is interested they can rent my time and come into my shop 
>and sit at a computer and run the Publisher work that comes in.

Lee, where are you located? Microsoft's Commercial Printing Team will
visit your commercial print shop if you are in the Washington/Seattle area.
Outside of that, I don't know. I would have to check.

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



0
bkvalheim1 (36)
4/21/2004 12:20:12 PM
Lee "I have already lost too much money as a result of this program" only
because you are just another failed poorly educated printer.
To damn lazy to do some basic research, probably to dumb to be able to learn
how to work with it properly, and to damn dumb to ask others who know the
right questions.  Kiss your jobs goodbye by the day.  The Indians and Asians
are more than happy to take all the work you yankees send them.  I am sure
they do not care what format it is in because they will be well trained and
educated and if they do not have the knowledge they will go and obtain it
from somebody who knows.  Don't worry America one day soon you will have a
Chinese head of state running yankee land.  They just about own it now, so
wont take long to take over the board.

-- 

"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"


0
donotknock (23)
4/21/2004 12:44:50 PM
Thanks Brian.

Wendell

Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] wrote:

> On 21 Apr 2004 07:00, Wendell <me2@privacy.net> wrote:
> 
>>We purchased our copy in order to accept .pub files and convert them. I 
>>didn't realize that there was an offer to printers of free copies.
>>How do we qualify and get a copy?
> 
> 
> Hi Wendell, the program is free to all commercial printers. It's called
> the PSPP program: http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/preview.aspx?AssetID=HA010772371033&CTT=98
> 
> In addition, you get free unlimited commercial printing support with a
> dedicated support number for commercial printers.
> Brian Kvalheim
> Microsoft Publisher MVP
> http://www.mvps.org/publisher
> 
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
> 
> 
> 

0
me22158 (272)
4/21/2004 1:19:13 PM
HeHeHeHeHe .....









0
4/21/2004 4:15:09 PM
Dave,

We've known each other for years now.

The only way you and Western Producer would ever see a MS Publisher file is
if an advertiser sent one in. And in that case your ad folks would likely
reject it because it doesn't meet the mech specs on the rate card.
If they don't, they need a stern talking to...not because of MS Publisher
but deviation from the production standards for the paper. I suspect a
native XP file might meet similar rejection, but maybe not.

I, on the other hand, end up accepting virtually anything. Have to. Someone
walks into one of my client print shops and hands over the disc they were
told to deliver (which means they have no idea what's on it!) and it ends up
in my folder for the next pickup.

MS Publisher used to be a major PIA for me in Pub98 days. Not so anymore,
especially if they have used the Pack N Go wizard to handle packaging the
file. Where there's an output problem, it is most often something I haven't
done right or some process I'm not handling right. I do know you can't work
MSPub files in quite the same way you do Quark or InDesign or any of the
others. It is simply too closely linked up with the printer
driver...something I hope will be changed in future releases. Little by
little I'm starting to respect Publisher more and more. (and, frankly, I
wish I got more than the few jobs I get in it each month...I can use the
work<G>).

For example: Granted most Publisher users are folks who have "more
important" jobs within an organization...whether it is receptionist or
Company owner. These people are the small print shop's Bread and freaking
Butter! They make a red and black flyer and it's all RGB. Gees what a mess.
Try to fix that in Quark or InDesign. It usually takes abut 15 seconds in
Publisher...if you know how to do it. If you don't, it's fight with the PDF
for 15-30 minutes or so and sometimes that doesn't even work.

I have problems with Illustrator files for the same reason otehrs have
problems with Corel files or MS Publisher files...because I'm not familiar
enough with it to know how to fix the stupid things people do with it and if
I spent a couple hours seriously working with Illy the issues would likely
go away.

But then, if I did that I might run low on things to bitch about since
Publisher is getting more predictable<BG>



>
> The result in the professional community was *not* unpredictable.


0
mactno2221 (33)
4/21/2004 5:08:02 PM
In article <e0k3HP8JEHA.2884@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, Mac Townsend
<mactno@crapadcomgraphics.com> wrote:

<snip>

As I said earlier, I don't have any "known issues" with Publisher files
because I specifically refuse to accept them.

As I said earlier, I'm delighted to send Publisher files to other shops.

As I said earlier, Microsoft is to blame for the lack of acceptance of
Publisher files by many, many professional shops.

As I said earlier, I have no idea how or even if MS can change that.
And that's fine because I don't care.

You've made business decisions that mean you "have to" accept
"virtually anything". I've made different decisions that mean I don't.

djb

-- 
Was that last sig line lame or what?
0
dave14 (1200)
4/21/2004 5:30:18 PM
���MS�Publisher��� <donotknock@nobodyhome.com> wrote:

> Lee "I have already lost too much money as a result of this program" only
> because you are just another failed poorly educated printer.
> To damn lazy to do some basic research, probably to dumb to be able to learn
> how to work with it properly, and to damn dumb to ask others who know the
> right questions.  Kiss your jobs goodbye by the day.  The Indians and Asians
> are more than happy to take all the work you yankees send them.  I am sure
> they do not care what format it is in because they will be well trained and
> educated and if they do not have the knowledge they will go and obtain it
> from somebody who knows.  Don't worry America one day soon you will have a
> Chinese head of state running yankee land.  They just about own it now, so
> wont take long to take over the board.

I've never had a kill list but it's starting to look like it's time.
0
leeb (1197)
4/22/2004 12:02:41 AM
<Brian> wrote:

> Lee, where are you located? Microsoft's Commercial Printing Team will
> visit your commercial print shop if you are in the Washington/Seattle area.
> Outside of that, I don't know. I would have to check.

Rhode Island.

But seriously, all this work can be done at your location.

The problem you have is getting real world publisher documents to check
out.

Perhaps you should start an free local service where you convert
publlisher docs to workable PDFs. Maybe even setup a web site where
Publisher service bureaus can post problem docs and you have a couple
wizzes there that fix them for output.

A simple form system where a user fills in the printer driver, os
version and all the particulars.

Then M$ gets the test data to try to output and sees the problems.

I'm sympathetic to the problem. I've worked in support for a
software/system company and there was never a real devoted effort to get
real world data or commit resources to such an endeavor.

Then after you get the data, you need a culture cleansing at M$. 

For the engineers to have such a pathetic program after so many years
there needs to be public spankings. Start in all departments.

Marketing, engineering, sales, etc.
0
leeb (1197)
4/22/2004 12:02:43 AM
Mac,

Thanks for the note.  I had no idea when I submitted the question that
it would trigger a 70 reply debate.  Sounds like it was a good
question.

So, for the record, thanks to everyone, I guess.  Here's what
happened:

The two posters and the banner were ALL done in JPEG.  And then banner
was vinyl cut and the posters ink jetted.  Apparently the shop had no
problem with the JPEGs.  And the results were spectacular, if I do say
so myself.

So, why do I use Publisher rather than something with proper pre-press
etc.?  We are a small company with smarts.  And we aren't graphics
professionals and don't want to spend dollars and time on Illustrator
etc.

However, we've taken a few basic graphics courses and have done quite
a bit of good looking basic stuff over the years (you can't go wrong
with a limited number of fonts, a sense of proportion and three
columns . . .)

MS Publisher is something one almost knows already if one knows Word
well.  And it does a pretty good job actually in a very short period
of time.  There's just that pesky little pre-press problem.

John
0
jhmorris (3)
4/28/2004 1:30:46 AM
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Has anybody got the dongleless Publiser+ app for sale at a reasonable price? Regards, Ralph -- ______________________________________________________________________ Ralph King rmking@nospamcwgsy.net (remove nospam to reply) ______________________________________________________________________ In message <4c0d38a601rmking@cwgsy.net> Ralph <rmking@nospamcwgsy.net> wrote: > Has anybody got the dongleless Publiser+ app for sale at a reasonable > price? Computer Concepts s...

Impression Publisher graphics
Evening All, Once again I'm thwarted by Impression Publisher. More specifically, the lack of graphics loaders. I usually import Drawfiles from !Riscript PDF documents into Imp.Pub so that forms etc. can be completed within frames and pages; very useful for repetitive planning applications and the like. But, I've just transferred 4 pages of a PDF document, and each page registers at 4Mb. It simple B&W, so I assume there must be something lurking within that has ramped up the memory. Now that Computer Concepts don't support the app anymore (IIRC), can anyone: a) sell me the ...

Where to publish?
Hello, I have made a small, but interesting observaion on the representation of suffix trees, and got my paper rejected by Information Processing Letters as the "technical contribution is not strong enough", accompanied by a suggestion to try someplace else. I'm interested in a peer-reviewed journal that would publish small, clever algorithms on data structures. Any suggestions? -- Daniel ...

New ebook about publishing : Self-Publishing Simplified
Hi everyone, from time to time several of us at Outskirts Press have posted with articles and tips from our free e-University courses. Lately, we've all been busy getting our ebook publishing guide finalized and now it is available for free from http://outskirtspress.com You can decide whether or not it is right for you. Here is an excerpt. Hopefully it helps some of you. Cheers, Gem ----- When the movie studio system was formed in the early 1900s, actors were signed to exclusive deals, treated like commodities, and paid pennies. The studios maintained all the control and m...

How to publish...
.... my own (hypothetical) game design document? Have I to send it by email to anyone I know? Or, have I to show it personally to a software house? Thanks for the answers :P In article <457dd22a$0$22397$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>, Emanuele Colucci <emack@gameprog.it> wrote: > ... my own (hypothetical) game design document? > Have I to send it by email to anyone I know? Or, have I to show it > personally to a software house? > > Thanks for the answers :P <http://tinyurl.com/161> Hope that helps! -- Please take off your pants or I...

Problem loading Imp.Publisher+ files into Publisher
A customer of ours has Impression Publisher PLUS V 5.13 on one computer ant Impression Publisher V 4.13 on another. If he tries to read has Publisher Plus documents on Publisher V 4.13 he gets an error saying he needs a later version of Publisher! I thought Publisher + 5.13 & Publisher 4.13 were both the latest versions, and that they each could read each others files. Also I have no problem here reading Pub+ 5.13 docs on 4.06 Publisher! Any ideas why? and a fix? n.b. I don't think the customer can/wants to copy V5.13 to the other machine because, I can't remember why but I kn...

iWorks and MS Publisher.
Anyone know if you can import and edit Publisher files in Pages 2 ?!?! Thanks In article <1156298417.152117.65500@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "JW" <Watnots@gmail.com> wrote: > Anyone know if you can import and edit Publisher files in Pages 2 ?!?! > > Thanks As far as I know, there's nothing out there that reads Publisher files. Once they're in this application, they're there to stay. See if you can get another format. There doesn't seem to be any sort of Publisher conversion program or tool on MacOS X. -- DeeDee, don't press t...

MS Publisher file
Is there any linux program which can read MS Publisher (.pub) files ? If not, is there any way of converting a .pub file from within linux to some other format which is readable by some linux program ? Thanks -- jabali Please send e-mails to jabali@freeuk.com "Jabali Pragya" <jabali@XSPAMfreeuk.com> wrote in message news:7z20d.6679$v93.1759@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > Is there any linux program which can read MS Publisher (.pub) files ? If > not, is there any way of converting a .pub file from within linux to some > other format which is readable by some linu...

Printing with MS Publisher
Need advice on printing from Microsoft Publisher I use Publisher to create business cards, and then print them on an Avery form with 10 cards per sheet. Until recently, Publisher printed 10 cards per sheet, in 2 columns of 5. Now it only prints 4 in a single column centered on page. I've tried to change settings under Print\Page Options, but cannot change it back to 10 cards per sheet. Have also tried to select an Avery form under Page Setup, but the business card form (or anything close to it) isn't there. Any suggestions? Thanks. ...

PC Game publishers should follow what this Music publisher is thinking on doing
PC Game publishers should follow what this Music publisher is thinking on doing "EMI Considering Dropping DRM From Its CDs" http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/emi-considering-dropping-drm-from-its-cds-229929.php Basically what EMI is considering is removing copy-protection from their Retail Music CDs. That is exactly what I've been asking PC Game publishers to do, remove the copy-protection from Retail PC Game CD/DVD Some actually do it, like Relic, id, Epic, but others still insist on using copy-protection and sometime the more agressive type. If EMI really goes fo...

Something like MS Publisher
I have just made the switch from PC to MAC and generally am very pleased. One thing I do miss is MS Publisher, which I used to create greeting cards and personalized calendars (inserting pictures in blank squares). Is there a similar simple-minded program for OS X? I have installed Office for MAC, but do not have nor intend to have virtual PC. TIA Rosemary In article <dale_thomp-543747.08481127012004@corp.supernews.com>, Dale Thompson <dale_thomp@sinewave.com.invalid> wrote: > I have just made the switch from PC to MAC and generally am very > pleased. One thing ...

Publisher postscript files are too large!!
Hi, I am using MS Publisher 2003 to convert a pub document into a postscript file. The problem I am having is that the resulting PS file is huge. For example, a 2mb Publisher file ends up as a 90mb postscript file. I know that this should not be the case (or at least, I know that it can be avoided) because I used Publisher 2003 about six months ago to convert an almost identical file to PostScript and the file only ended up as 6mb. Interestingly, I had to download Microsoft's Generic Color PS because everytime I tried to save to Postscript using the Adobe PDF printer, it crashed after about a minute. Any ideas on what is happening here... and more importantly, how I can get around it. Thanks, Johannes Stavrogin <silentio@dccnet.com> was very recently heard to utter: > I am using MS Publisher 2003 to convert a pub document into a > postscript file. The problem I am having is that the resulting PS > file is huge. For example, a 2mb Publisher file ends up as a 90mb > postscript file. Does your file contain high-resolution compressed images or gradient fills? -- Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher Stavrogin <silentio@dccnet.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I am using MS Publisher 2003 to convert a pub document into a > postscript file. The problem I am having is that the resulting PS > file is huge. For example, a 2mb Publisher file ends up as a 90mb > postscript file. > > > I know that this should not...

exporting publishable 3D graphics
I need to export a 3D graphics object generated with ListPlot3D to be used in a publication. I'm compiling with PDFLatex so I need to export to a png, jpg, or pdf file. If I export as a png, the text and axes are pixelated to the extent that the image is unusable. Increasing the resolution doesn't help. If I export the plot as a pdf, the text looks good (because it's exported as fonts), but the file size is enormous. Presumably, this is because Export saves the surface in a vector format, which would be terribly inefficient for something created using ListPlot3...

Publish with MS Word problem
I had some access 97 reports that I used to publish to MS Word that worked before we upgraded to Access 2K and Word 2K. Although there were some minor discrepancies, I was able to tweak the access reports and fix those problems. After the upgrade to Office 2K, when I publish the report to MS Word a ..rtf document is created instead of a .doc document and it has many problems. i.e., lines don't show up, words are missing, sentences are truncated, paragraphs are split into numerous smaller paragraphs, ... I researched the problem a little and found out that certain problems could be elim...

mac equivalent to MS Publisher
Hi All, my 13yo neice needs something equivalent to MS Publisher for a school project. Any freeware/low end apps anyone could suggest? Chris Brown neurosurgery University of Adelaide In article <42127948$1@yorrell.saard.net>, Chris Brown <cbrown@medicine.adelaide.edu.au> wrote: > my 13yo neice needs something equivalent to MS Publisher for a school > project. Any freeware/low end apps anyone could suggest? Pages, Appleworks... -- "The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B, sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows Chris Brown wrote: > my 13yo neice needs something equivalent to MS Publisher for a school > project. Any freeware/low end apps anyone could suggest? try PhotoLine 32 from www.pl32.com. It's an image processing software, but has many dtp features. You can create an empty page in letter format, place images, vector graphics and text on it. Text can flow between text layers and to other pages. You can save the result in PDF-format. Gerhard Huber -- PhotoLine 32 Shareware Bildbearbeitung f�r Windows und MacOS www.pl32.com thank you both regards chris ...

Photoshop Plug-In for MS Publisher?
Is there a Photoshop 6.0 plug-in for Microsoft Publisher 98 files? Thanks >Is there a Photoshop 6.0 plug-in for Microsoft Publisher 98 files? No. Absolutely not. MS Publisher is not a graphics program; it is a page-layout program. Opening a page-layout file in a graphics program is a bit like opening a word processor file in AutoCAD. You can get a rasterized version of a Publisher page into Photoshop by creating a PDF from the Publisher document, then opening the PDF in Photoshop. But doing this will rasterize (break up into pixels) everything on the page, including text. Why do you ...

MS Home Publishing 2000
I know this is not a great DTP programme, but can anyone tell me how to change the default font in this programme? Many thanks ...

Choice of format for web publishing
I'd like to raise an issue that is somewhat outside the focus of this newsgroup although related, which is the ideal document format for web publication. In terms of likely future trends, what is the ideal format for the publication of technical documents (by "technical", I mean documents that are paginated, have bibliography and footnotes), The reason for my question is that I've become involved in a project to develop an on-line journal in the humanities. The publisher intends to solicite manuscripts in Word and convert them to PDF (using Chicago Style Sheet, w...

Converting MS Publisher File ?
Can anyone give an easy way to converter a MS Publisher file to a PDF or = other format that I can place easily into Pagemaker 7.0? I downloaded the Adobe converter but it is not working - likely a later = version of Publisher was used. Thanks in advance! Claude Balls Been there, done that. The easiest method would be to download and install CutePDF. It acts as a PDF printer. So all you have to do is "print to" CutePDF and you have a PDF that you can import into your fave Adobe app!! CutePDF, by the way, is free. :) HTH!! :) -- Connie :) http://sewverycre...

.pub (Microsoft Publisher) format
Can any open-source program read this format? Bob T. Bob Tennent wrote: > Can any open-source program read this format? > > Bob T. A quick google search doesn't look hopeful. An alternative is to Wine or Crossover if you really want to use MS Publisher. In comp.os.linux.misc Bob Tennent <BobT@cs.queensu.ca>: > Can any open-source program read this format? Check if the doze app can export to anything useful, ..eps/.ps/.pdf and use http://www.scribus.org.uk/ to import and work with it. Don't expect general availability of OSS software to import evil/undocument...

Web resources about - EPS Prepress For Large Format Graphics From MS Publisher -- Yikes! - comp.publish.prepress

Video game publisher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A video game publisher is a company that publishes video games that they have either developed internally or have had developed by a video game ...

It's Up to Agencies, Advertisers and Publishers to Improve Digital Ads
Look up from your mobile phone for a moment. When was the last time you clicked on a sponsored link or banner ad? I'm guessing not very often. ...

Next Up for Facebook Messenger: Content from Publishers?
The next addition to Facebook Messenger may be content sent directly by publishers via the application. Three sources told Marketing Land that ...

Why are some of gaming’s biggest publishers abandoning E3?
... marketing and hype that is the Electronic Entertainment Expo will be a little less hype-filled this year, as some of gaming's biggest publishers ...

Outbrain acquires Revee in order to tell publishers how much revenue each individual article is pulling ...
... sites such as CNN and ESPN, has acquired Los Angeles-based software firm Revee and it is now launching a product that it claims will let publishers ...

IDG Contributor Network: Why publishers should pay more attention to on-site search
... Lechat, head of content for SitePoint , a go-to publication for Web developers, to get her take on how important on-site search is to publishers ...

Union Leader Publisher On Christie Endorsement: We Got 'Egg On Our Faces'
New Hampshire Union Leader's Joe McQuaid published a strongly worded editorial on how wrong he was in endorsing Gov. Chris Christie, this morning. ...

Docu Filmmaker, Political Activist Hamilton Fish Named Publisher Of ‘The New Republic’
... of a storied political dynasty, documentary filmmaker and progressive political activist, will take the reins of The New Republic as publisher ...

Harmonix drops Mad Catz as Rock Band 4's co-publisher
... In a press release sent out this afternoon, Harmonix revealed that Performance Designed Products (PDP) is Rock Band 4 's new co-publisher. ...

'Dark Souls' publisher brings 'Necropolis' to PS4, Xbox One
Here's one to add to your video game watch list: Necropolis is a stylish, hardcore dungeon-diving game from Harebrained Schemes, the studio behind ...

Resources last updated: 3/10/2016 8:53:30 AM