I'm studying for a BS in physics.  I'd like to be able to program better, so
I can do simulation & modeling, digital signal processing, and computational
physics.  I know Matlab pretty well and know a tiny bit of Java, but this
won't go all that far in the job market.  I'd like to learn C/C++.  I guess
what I'd like to know is whether or not Fortran is still worthwhile for
these purposes?  Is it more desirable to know Fortran or Unix? or is there
some other language I should know?

Thanks in advance,
S McGovern

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Bill wrote:

> I'm studying for a BS in physics.  I'd like to be able to program better, so
> I can do simulation & modeling, digital signal processing, and computational
> physics.  I know Matlab pretty well and know a tiny bit of Java, but this
> won't go all that far in the job market.  I'd like to learn C/C++.  I guess
> what I'd like to know is whether or not Fortran is still worthwhile for
> these purposes?  Is it more desirable to know Fortran or Unix? or is there
> some other language I should know?

As far as computational physics goes, I haven't been able to avoid 
FORTRAN. Mainly I use MATLAB/Octave. Other comp types around here use 
FORTRAN, C, C++, MATLAB, Python. Be prepared to deal with (and modify or 
write) code in whatever language one's co-workers are using.

Best to learn computational methods and good programming skills, which is 
mostly independent of language. General computer skills, including 
familiarity with unix, are always useful.

-- 
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html

"Bill" <BMcGovern@cox.net> wrote in message
news:-JDJRB.A.UCG.27qJ_@lios.aq2.gweep.ca...
> I'm studying for a BS in physics.  I'd like to be able to program better,
so
> I can do simulation & modeling, digital signal processing, and
computational
> physics.  I know Matlab pretty well and know a tiny bit of Java, but this
> won't go all that far in the job market.  I'd like to learn C/C++.  I
guess
> what I'd like to know is whether or not Fortran is still worthwhile for
> these purposes?  Is it more desirable to know Fortran or Unix? or is there
> some other language I should know?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> S McGovern
>

You can always learn languages. You need *background* if you want to be more
than just a code-monkey though.

Mathematica is the ultimate formula language/program,  I think.
Check out:

http://www.wolfram.com

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/

The original simulation language was Simula. The successor to Simula was the
original "official" object-oriented language, Smalltalk. The most up-to-date
version of Smalltalk is Squeak, which was a project originally started when
"object oriented programming" and Smalltalk-inventor Alan Kay was a vice
president at Disney Imagineering.

If you want to learn to use the most cutting edge *language* for
simulations, complete with simulation projects designed for kids (hence
"Small"talk), as well as adults, you should check out Squeak:

http://www.squeakland.org

You can also join the Squeak community of world-class educators, language
designers, programmers and so on, who can help you get started and give you
ideas for new projects.

http://www.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland

http://www.squeakland.org/community/biography/links.html




-- 
New definition of irony:

'Today's liberal Democrats are like the supporters of the Third Reich of the
'30's and '40's
- they absolutely trusted the government to "make things right". '
-Comment made on the internet by an ardent GW Bush supporter.

Any major differences in OS's?  Linux, Solaris, Tru64, BSD, Windows, Mac,
BeOS?  Will Tru64 run on an Intel compatible chip?
Thanks
Steve

"Jay Braun" <lyngwyst@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4ce97a1a.0307301812.21166435@posting.google.com...
> "Bill" <BMcGovern@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<-JDJRB.A.UCG.27qJ_@lios.aq2.gweep.ca>...
> > . . . I'd like to be able to program better, so
> > I can do simulation & modeling, . . .
>
> Military simulation, if that interests you, tends to favor C++ these
> days for the modeling aspects, with Java increasing in popularity,
> especially for GUIs.  Unix variants like Linux and Solaris are the
> most popular OSs, with Windows occasionally being chosen.  Fortran
> could be encountered in legacy applications.
>
> Very few military models use special-purpose simulation languages.
> Some very large legacy simulations are written in Simscript, and some
> of these are in active maintenance and development after twenty or
> more years.
>
> You can't go wrong if you acquire basic Unix/Linux skills, learn to
> write small scripts using bash, Perl, Tcl, and/or Python, and study
> object-oriented programming in C++, Java, and/or Python.  This is true
> of fields outside of simulation as well.
>
> Jay
>

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:24:36 +0000 (UTC), "Bill" <BMcGovern@cox.net>
wrote:

>Any major differences in OS's?  Linux, Solaris, Tru64, BSD, Windows, Mac,
>BeOS?  Will Tru64 run on an Intel compatible chip?
>Thanks
>Steve

I don't see the reason why you ask this question in the context of
computer simulation...

A.L.

"Bill" <BMcGovern@cox.net> wrote in message news:<-JDJRB.A.UCG.27qJ_@lios.aq2.gweep.ca>...
> I'm studying for a BS in physics.  I'd like to be able to program better, so
> I can do simulation & modeling, digital signal processing, and computational
> physics.  I know Matlab pretty well and know a tiny bit of Java, but this
> won't go all that far in the job market.  I'd like to learn C/C++.  I guess
> what I'd like to know is whether or not Fortran is still worthwhile for
> these purposes?  Is it more desirable to know Fortran or Unix? or is there
> some other language I should know?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> S McGovern

- you don't need to know computer languages to do modelling, there are
lots of good programs that let you model in more natural languages.
Relevbant society pages are Society for Computer Simulation and
EUROSIM (probably the best, look at their Argesim page.

For new numerical work in physics as such, Fortran is still best;
otherwise C++ or perhaps Visual Basic are more directly useful,
especially if you want to do Windows programming.

But I suggest you use the Linux operating system, which comes with
excellent free compilers.  Look at freshmeat.com for scientific
programs. OPEN DESIRE is a free simulation program for
differential-equation-type simulation. The most powerful modelling
language is Dymola, but this is not free; there is a free trial
package (dynasim.com). SIMULINK does block-diagram programming, but it
is slow and fairly expensive. Tjere is, zaltogether, an embarrassment
of riches; good luck. GAK

Meindert de Jong schrieb am Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:19:38 +0000 (UTC):
> Greetings. FORTRAN is an all purpose simulation langueage. You may find a 
> paper of ours in my websites: http://www.geocities.com/meindertdejong/ and 
> http://www.geocities.com/biosanitation/  With a physical-mathematical paper 
> on simulation of spore dispersal in a vegetation. It took me many years of 
> work. My newsserver account is about to expire. This week! Please use 
> Meindert.dejong@wur.nl And I appreciate some feed back. In article <c3e4b7cc.0308100931.5f18e98e@posting.google.com>, neurokorn@aol.com (G.A. Korn) writes:
>>"Bill" <BMcGovern@cox.net> wrote in message news:<-JDJRB.A.UCG.27qJ_@lios.aq2.gweep.ca>...
>>> I'm studying for a BS in physics.  I'd like to be able to program better, so
>>> I can do simulation & modeling, digital signal processing, and computational
>>> physics.  I know Matlab pretty well and know a tiny bit of Java, but this
>>> won't go all that far in the job market.  I'd like to learn C/C++.  I guess
>>> what I'd like to know is whether or not Fortran is still worthwhile for
>>> these purposes?  Is it more desirable to know Fortran or Unix? or is there
>>> some other language I should know?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> S McGovern
>>
>>- you don't need to know computer languages to do modelling, there are
>>lots of good programs that let you model in more natural languages.
>>Relevbant society pages are Society for Computer Simulation and
>>EUROSIM (probably the best, look at their Argesim page.
>>
>>For new numerical work in physics as such, Fortran is still best;
>>otherwise C++ or perhaps Visual Basic are more directly useful,
>>especially if you want to do Windows programming.
>>
>>But I suggest you use the Linux operating system, which comes with
>>excellent free compilers.  Look at freshmeat.com for scientific
>>programs. OPEN DESIRE is a free simulation program for
>>differential-equation-type simulation. The most powerful modelling
>>language is Dymola, but this is not free; there is a free trial
>>package (dynasim.com). SIMULINK does block-diagram programming, but it
>>is slow and fairly expensive. Tjere is, zaltogether, an embarrassment
>>of riches; good luck. GAK
>>
> 

Do you really think that it's a good suggestion to learn FORTRAN these
days? I have to admit that my FORTRAN experience is little. I had to
take a FORTRAN program of a simulation of moving particles in a box and
extend it to my boss's needs. I chose to reprogram it in C++. The
program was quite easy to translate as the syntax was quite readable,
except for the quite cryptic "a.eq.b" saying a equal to b.
My point is that these days C/C++ is becoming more and more like an
industry standard. Knowing how to program in C/C++ is likely to give you
an advantage when you're looking for a job in real life. And I don't
think that there are a lot of things that you can do in FORTRAN but not
in C/C++.

So, FORTRAN knowers, maybe my program was badly done and a bad example
for good FORTRAN; can someone tell me what are the advantages of
FORTRAN? Or would you agree that it is a bit 'outdated'?


ciao
Stefan


-- 
Fishing for the good times starts with throwing in your lies.
 (Tom Waits)

In article <bh8rva$uold0$1@ID-195411.news.uni-berlin.de>, Stefan M�rkl wrote:
> Meindert de Jong schrieb am Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:19:38 +0000 (UTC):
> > Greetings. FORTRAN is an all purpose simulation langueage. You may find a 
> > paper of ours in my websites: http://www.geocities.com/meindertdejong/ and 
> > http://www.geocities.com/biosanitation/  With a physical-mathematical paper 
> > on simulation of spore dispersal in a vegetation. It took me many years of 
> > work. My newsserver account is about to expire. This week! Please use 
> > Meindert.dejong@wur.nl And I appreciate some feed back. In article 
<c3e4b7cc.0308100931.5f18e98e@posting.google.com>, neurokorn@aol.com (G.A. Korn) 
writes:
> >>"Bill" <BMcGovern@cox.net> wrote in message 
news:<-JDJRB.A.UCG.27qJ_@lios.aq2.gweep.ca>...
> >>> I'm studying for a BS in physics.  I'd like to be able to program better, so
> >>> I can do simulation & modeling, digital signal processing, and computational
> >>> physics.  I know Matlab pretty well and know a tiny bit of Java, but this
> >>> won't go all that far in the job market.  I'd like to learn C/C++.  I guess
> >>> what I'd like to know is whether or not Fortran is still worthwhile for
> >>> these purposes?  Is it more desirable to know Fortran or Unix? or is there
> >>> some other language I should know?
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks in advance,
> >>> S McGovern
> >>
> >>- you don't need to know computer languages to do modelling, there are
> >>lots of good programs that let you model in more natural languages.
> >>Relevbant society pages are Society for Computer Simulation and
> >>EUROSIM (probably the best, look at their Argesim page.
> >>
> >>For new numerical work in physics as such, Fortran is still best;
> >>otherwise C++ or perhaps Visual Basic are more directly useful,
> >>especially if you want to do Windows programming.
> >>
> >>But I suggest you use the Linux operating system, which comes with
> >>excellent free compilers.  Look at freshmeat.com for scientific
> >>programs. OPEN DESIRE is a free simulation program for
> >>differential-equation-type simulation. The most powerful modelling
> >>language is Dymola, but this is not free; there is a free trial
> >>package (dynasim.com). SIMULINK does block-diagram programming, but it
> >>is slow and fairly expensive. Tjere is, zaltogether, an embarrassment
> >>of riches; good luck. GAK
> >>
> > 
> 
> Do you really think that it's a good suggestion to learn FORTRAN these
> days? I have to admit that my FORTRAN experience is little. I had to
> take a FORTRAN program of a simulation of moving particles in a box and
> extend it to my boss's needs. I chose to reprogram it in C++. The
> program was quite easy to translate as the syntax was quite readable,
> except for the quite cryptic "a.eq.b" saying a equal to b.
> My point is that these days C/C++ is becoming more and more like an
> industry standard. Knowing how to program in C/C++ is likely to give you
> an advantage when you're looking for a job in real life. And I don't
> think that there are a lot of things that you can do in FORTRAN but not
> in C/C++.
> 
> So, FORTRAN knowers, maybe my program was badly done and a bad example
> for good FORTRAN; can someone tell me what are the advantages of
> FORTRAN? Or would you agree that it is a bit 'outdated'?
> 
> ciao
> Stefan

If you want to work as a programmer of computers, then learn C/C++; but if you want 
to work in Engineering programming numerical solutions for computer, then FORTRAN is 
still most appropriate. 

Kelvin B. Hales
Kelvin Hales Associates Limited
Consulting Process Control Engineers
E-mail: khales@khace.com
Web: www.khace.com