I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
every country and expects them to clean it up.

Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
something?

Singleterry wrote:

> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
> 
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
> something?

Back when Yugoslavia was one country I visited Zagreb and the Adriatic 
coast.  The place was overrun by German tourists in tropical-print 
shirts & shorts, acting like any native who didn't speak German was an 
idiot, complaining about the trains not being _exactly_ on time, 
shortchanging, complaining, and generally acting like US citizens do 
when we visit Mexico.

I spoke college German and the natives spoke no English.  But they knew 
the same 1000 words of German that I did, so we could communicate.  I 
quickly learned that I could walk up to someone and speak English, be 
liked but not understood, I could smile and point and be respected but 
not understood, or I could speak German and be intensely disliked but 
well understood.

I quickly learned to walk up to people and say "Guten tag -- ich bin 
Americanisher" then state my needs, etc.  Then I would be liked _and_ 
understood, which was pretty cool (and I could understand them, because 
they didn't know any German words I didn't also know).

So don't think that being born German (or any other particular 
nationality) would have kept you from being part of a group that takes 
dumps on other nationalities.

For all the Germans who are now pissed at me: on the same trip I was in 
a park in Frankfurt when a little 5-year old boy was throwing rocks at 
the ducks.  I was working hard to get up my courage to go give the 
little fellow a piece of my mind -- he was definitely misbehaving and 
needed adult censure, but I was a foreigner and didn't feel I had the 
authority.  I was saved by a little old German man giving him a nice 
little dressing-down (in German, of course).  He ran off, quite unhappy.

Shortly thereafter a very well dressed, tall blond woman came to me and 
asked, in slow and American accented German, if I saw the @#$% guy who 
had accosted her little angel.  I had the pleasure of replying, quite 
coldly, in English, that her kid was out of line and if I had he was 
American I would have done the scolding myself in a language the little 
git could understand.

So don't think that being born American _or_ German (or any other 
particular nationality) would have kept you from being part of a group 
that takes dumps on other nationalities.  We just happen to have the 
power at the moment and being human we use it.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com> writes:

> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate
> it at the same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's
> because of us. Us, the overweight, pompous, arrogant population of
> America that takes a crap on every country and expects them to clean
> it up.
>
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
> Italy or something?

It's your own choice whether you are overweight, pompous and arrogant,
take a crap on every or your own country and expect others to clean it
up.

And that holds whether you are born in the U.S., England, Sweden,
Germany, Italy, or anywhere else.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

"Singleterry" <singleterry@cnn.com> wrote in message
news:1104347321.463c8af9ba38a9457b4a69d1492d2604@bubbanews...
> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at
the
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us,
the
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
>
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy
or
> something?

You'd have the same thoughts regardless of country of origin.

I sometimes whince at being British sometime. Fortunately Mathematics is
invariant to our foibles. Be proud, you've got Ed Witten, Schwartz and
Green, you also had Saturn 5, a Shuttle, a Moon Landing (that'll provoke the
conspirators).

Have a good 2005

Richard Miller

I read in sci.electronics.design that Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
wrote (in <1104347321.463c8af9ba38a9457b4a69d1492d2604@bubbanews>) about
'[OT] I hate being American', on Wed, 29 Dec 2004:
>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>
>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>something?

You will have to ask your mother. (;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com> wrote in
news:1104347321.463c8af9ba38a9457b4a69d1492d2604@bubbanews: 

> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it
> at the same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of
> us. Us, the overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that
> takes a crap on every country and expects them to clean it up.
> 
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
> Italy or something?

You're gay. I wish you were dead.

In article <1104347321.463c8af9ba38a9457b4a69d1492d2604@bubbanews>,
Singleterry  <singleterry@cnn.com> wrote:
>I hate being American.

Solution:

Step one: Leave country
Step two: Enter U.S. consulate in foreign country.  Renounce citizenship.
Step three: Spend the rest of your life as a refugee, because the US
            will treat you as the next best thing to a felon and no
            other country will want you.
Step four: Have nice day.
 
>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>something?

Solution:
They don't want you know and didn't want you then.

Singleterry wrote:

> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
> something?

Emigrate. No one is stopping you.

Bob Kolker

Singleterry wrote:
> 
> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
> 
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or
> something?

Indeed.  Leave the goodies for the deserving.  Get out.

   1) The money I make belongs to me and my family, not to a
government stooge who takes a cut and dumps the rest on slum bunnies
for squirting out babies.
   2) Elitism insists the better is preferable to the worse.  Uncle Al
is an elitist.
   3) To err is human, to forgive, divine.  Neither one is Marine
Corps policy.

-- 
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:22:06 -0800, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net>
wrote:


>   2) Elitism insists the better is preferable to the worse.  Uncle Al
>is an elitist.

And so are lots of other people.

John

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
wrote:

>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>same time. 

That is, I believe, pretty much the definition of neurosis.

>It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>every country and expects them to clean it up.

Yep, definitely neurotic.

>
>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>something?

Or Louie XIV. Why limit your vision?

John

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
wrote:

>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>
>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>something?

---
Something like a dumpster, maybe?

-- 
John Fields

Just Move Out.

> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at
the
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us,
the
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
>
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy
or
> something?
========================================

As a English World Citizen I very much sympathise with your view.

Perhaps you would have been happier if you lived in India or peace-loving
China. There's always the language difficulty of course.

But the pull of the soil under your feet cannot be denied.
---
Reg

Never too late!


"Singleterry" <singleterry@cnn.com> wrote in message 
news:1104347321.463c8af9ba38a9457b4a69d1492d2604@bubbanews...
>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at 
>the
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, 
> the
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
>
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy 
> or
> something? 

Move to the great Canadas. Regretfully, our government is tightening
refugee rights, but you can still squeeze in these next few years.

Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness
vs.

Peace, Order, Good Government

You decide!

   I just checked the OP's other messages in this group
(sci.electronics.design) and found none, then I checked his address in
the Author: field at
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en and found 25
posts in various groups starting in November, all with similarly
inflammatory subject lines.

   There are  more than enough off-topic and inflammatory threads
started by the regulars in their respective newsgroups that I read,
and it's dissapointing to see responses to the content of this
hit-and-run troller.

   Perhaps someone in authority at cnn.com should be notified of this
use of their domain.

In the newsgroups:
sci.math,comp.soft-sys.matlab,
sci.physics,
alt.math.undergrad,
rec.puzzles,sci.astro,
sci.electronics.design,
alt.worldn Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry
<singleterry@cnn.com> wrote:

   { nothing worth reading nor responding to }
-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

Singleterry wrote:
> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
> 
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
> something?

You're not talking about the REAL America. You are talking about 
corporate America. Bush and his administration are the most un-American, 
ignorant and corrupt vermin to ever gain power, and they have stolen 
over a trillion dollars of public money for their corporate cronies. 
Their method of control is entirely founded on deception and criminal 
misrepresentation, and they epitomize corporate American lackey scum. 
They have exploited the last remnants of patriotism in our society to 
pursue a campaign of military and political control in the Middle East 
that will ultimately end in failure. Not to worry- they are getting 
their ass handed to them by reality and things will get catastrophically 
worse as time goes on. The entire war on terror will be a failure ( the 
CIA, DoD, State Dept, and DoHS IG are already saying that it is-but who 
pays attention to them), the national treasury will be broke, the 
economy will probably collapse, unemployment may hit 65%, and there may 
be a total breakdown of the civil order- especially when the US is 
attacked by a WoMD. But how can you argue with God? These morons are 
trying force the "rapture" as described in Revelations. If there is a 
God, he will do something obscene to/on them and their kind. And why 
should anyone pay attention to the Bush record of being 100% wrong about 
every single projection he has made- just continue to listen to what he 
says, he has "political capital" and a "mandate", the stupid dupes and 
corrupt election officials gave it to him,- good for him.

As a World citizen, I think that you represent NOT a minority of sensible
citizens of the all powerful USA with its immense stockpile of (and
presently being used) weapons of mass destruction.  The use of such and the
after-effects exceeds the recent earthquake!

You may be unjustly accused by some of your fellow citizens of being
unpatriotic. But patriotism is not enough. (Nurse Edith Cavell, executed by
firing squad, Belgium, 1915)

I sincerely thank you very much for voicing your views. You give me hope for
the future.
----
Reg

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:52:08 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

>As a World citizen, I think that you represent NOT a minority of sensible
>citizens of the all powerful USA with its immense stockpile of (and
>presently being used) weapons of mass destruction.  The use of such and the
>after-effects exceeds the recent earthquake!
>
>You may be unjustly accused by some of your fellow citizens of being
>unpatriotic. But patriotism is not enough. (Nurse Edith Cavell, executed by
>firing squad, Belgium, 1915)
>
>I sincerely thank you very much for voicing your views. You give me hope for
>the future.
>----
>Reg
>

Come ON, Reg!  Slipping into senility in your old age ?:-)

Is it time to turn the Germans loose bombing London again, so that you
recover your memory?

Sheeeesh!

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote

> 3) To err is human, to forgive, divine.  Neither one is Marine
>    Corps policy.

Which one is it that policy forbids:

   To err
   To be human
   To forgive
   To be divine

-- 
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Quit whining and point out specifically
where the NeoCons are wrong every time they are.
Yeah, I know. Full-time job.
Suggest a concrete alternative when you bitch.
Find a guy who thinks like you do and work to get HIM elected.

My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right;
and if wrong, to be set right.  --Carl Schurz (1829-1906)
Brigade commander at Second Manassas and Fredericksburg;
Division commander at at Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, and Chattanooga.
Senator from Missouri. Secretary of the Interior.

On 29 Dec 2004 17:16:51 -0800, "JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote:

[snip]
>
>My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right;
>and if wrong, to be set right.  --Carl Schurz (1829-1906)
>Brigade commander at Second Manassas and Fredericksburg;
>Division commander at at Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, and Chattanooga.
>Senator from Missouri. Secretary of the Interior.

Amen!

Two years ago I walked Gettysburg for the first time.  Leaves you
stunned for months.

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:
> 
> "Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote
> 
> > 3) To err is human, to forgive, divine.  Neither one is Marine
> >    Corps policy.
> 
> Which one is it that policy forbids:
> 
>    To err
>    To be human
>    To forgive
>    To be divine

May you stand between a Marine and his goal.  Mean Mother Green is all
about Peace on Earth - but only behind her.

-- 
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41D34492.3050203@nospam.com:

> Singleterry wrote:
>
>> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it
>> at the same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of
>> us. Us, the overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that
>> takes a crap on every country and expects them to clean it up.
>> 
>> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
>> Italy or something?
> 
> You're not talking about the REAL America. You are talking about 
> corporate America. Bush and his administration are the most un-American,
> ignorant and corrupt vermin to ever gain power, and they have stolen 
> over a trillion dollars of public money for their corporate cronies. 

Prove it.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:43:11 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:

>Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41D34492.3050203@nospam.com:
>
>> Singleterry wrote:
>>
>>> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it
>>> at the same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of
>>> us. Us, the overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that
>>> takes a crap on every country and expects them to clean it up.
>>> 
>>> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
>>> Italy or something?
>> 
>> You're not talking about the REAL America. You are talking about 
>> corporate America. Bush and his administration are the most un-American,
>> ignorant and corrupt vermin to ever gain power, and they have stolen 
>> over a trillion dollars of public money for their corporate cronies. 
>
>Prove it.

Sheeesh!  Fred couldn't PROVE his asshole is in the back ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

JeffM wrote:

> Quit whining and point out specifically
> where the NeoCons are wrong every time they are.
> Yeah, I know. Full-time job.
> Suggest a concrete alternative when you bitch.
> Find a guy who thinks like you do and work to get HIM elected.
> 
> My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right;
> and if wrong, to be set right.  --Carl Schurz (1829-1906)
> Brigade commander at Second Manassas and Fredericksburg;
> Division commander at at Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, and Chattanooga.
> Senator from Missouri. Secretary of the Interior.


All other things being equal, you might not follow the Mugwumps.

Singleterry wrote:

> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
> 
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
> something?

So you'd be happier living in one of those countries being crapped 
"on"? What are you really saying here? Seems to me that you're a bit 
philosophically challenged. There is nothing noble about being crapped 
on, nor about crapping on others. There is nothing noble period, other 
than one's personal agenda.

It would certainly be nice to live in a less crappy world, but when 
people value their lives more than their state of affairs in it, then 
they are liable to get crapped on by those who would rather die than 
to be crapped on themselves. People crap on each other at every 
opportunity, that's what people do. If you aren't dishing out crap to 
others, then you're taking crap from others. It's a conscious decision 
to be a giver or taker of crap.

A recent winner of a one million dollar lottery related on the news 
that she had let her friends and relatives bilk her out of the entire 
account. That's real love and concern isn't it? Do you think that they 
cared that each of them had more of it than she did in the end? How 
many of them do you suppose offered  to return the money that she gave 
out of concern for them? Ha-ha. Truth is she was never concerned about 
them either, she was just lying to the world in order to save face, 
scared that she'd be perceived as, gasp, selfish. Joke's on her. The 
resentment was plainly distinguishable, and its only possible source 
was her reluctance to give it in the first place. That's what morality 
is good for, its a tool that others use to screw you in the ass.

There are no sidelines to take refuge in other than complete 
isolation, which is crappy in its own particular way, not to mention 
that fact that all of nature is also looking to get a piece of you, 
literally. Insects and wild animals will take a bite of you without 
second thought, they don't give a crap about you, would just as soon 
you were dead so that the pickings were easier. Even the trees and the 
grass that you probably think of as personal friends of yours are 
patiently awaiting you're transmutation into fertilizer.

Life is suffering.
All suffering is caused by ignorance.
Suffering can be ended by overcoming ignorance.
--Buddha

If there is a god, then he probably gave us the benefit of the doubt 
that we'd figure out early on that there isn't one.

Richard Perry

> philosophically challenged.

Those 2 words are a great description of their own context!

You win today's Recursion Award... :)

> Come ON, Reg!  Slipping into senility in your old age ?:-)
>
> Is it time to turn the Germans loose bombing London again, so that you
> recover your memory?

==============================

By far the next most likely source of weapons of mass destruction to fall on
London will be from the USA.  We have been a USA occupied country for 63
years. And the whole world knows from ill-experience what kind of things
happen to USA occupied countries if they don't behave according to USA
dictators.  Witness Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebonan, Libya, Yugoslavia,
Afganistan, and for the last 13 years, Iraq.  And other smaller countries.
You've killed more innocent people than earthquakes.


The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
many years by the USA.


THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT.

And how can you be so cruel as to say such nasty things to a poor, crippled,
defenceless old man like me?  You should be ashamed of your ignorant,
mindless self.  Have you no respect for your elders?


But I wish all USA citizens a very peaceful, happy and prosperous 2005.
After all said and done, they have the military and media means of enforcing
it, as I'm quite sure they certainly will.
----
Old Reg.

>>Carl Schurz
>> JeffM
>
>you might not follow the Mugwumps.
> TMG

Splitting from the party?
or chosing a candidate that ain't what he appears to be?
or disappearing into the mists?

>>Carl Schurz
>> JeffM
>
>you might not follow the Mugwumps.
> TMG

Splitting from the party?
or chosing a candidate that ain't what he appears to be?
or disappearing into the mists?

"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message 
news:41D311EE.C25C22A8@hate.spam.net...
>
> Indeed.  Leave the goodies for the deserving.  Get out.
>
Amen! I don't know of any US policy that prevents its citizens from leaving 
(unlike the old communist societies that had to build walls around their people 
to keep them from fleeing).

> 1) The money I make belongs to me and my family, not to a
> government stooge who takes a cut and dumps the rest on slum bunnies
> for squirting out babies.
Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed as gluttonous 
greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!) babble, the fact is, 
American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of 
"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this f'n planet.

Case in point: compare the US response to the SE Asian tsunami disaster to that 
of the nations that pitch the "Americans are a-holes" creed - 
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%255E1702,00.html Check 
out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort! They sure put their money 
where their mouth is - namely, up their own a**. It's a damned shame Singleterry 
and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.

Perion 

"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:zqydnfVKD4EFYk7cRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>
[snip]

> greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!) babble, the fact
is,
> American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
> "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this f'n
planet.

In your dreams.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

Frank Bemelman wrote:
> 
> "Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:zqydnfVKD4EFYk7cRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> >
> [snip]
> 
> > greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!) babble, the fact
> is,
> > American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
> > "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this f'n
> planet.
> 
> In your dreams.

Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last figures
I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry wrote:

> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
> same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
> overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
> every country and expects them to clean it up.
> 
> Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
> something?

You weren't actually born at all in the commonly accepted sense. You were
excreted. FOAD POS - Twice!

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:32 -0800, Uncle Al wrote:

> May you stand between a Marine and his goal.

And what would that be? Shooting a cat?

A score of your Cartoon Watcher MC tough boys would use your
very own little ass to take cover, would _one_ Hezbollah
fighter be pronounced present in their entire fucking ZONE. 

Your tough talk audience have shrunk to only Arabs. Even
THEY're getting over it, it seems. 
  
-- 

     kas nakhArad poshte man joz nAkhone angoshte man.

Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:43:11 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41D34492.3050203@nospam.com:
>>
>>
>>>Singleterry wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it
>>>>at the same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of
>>>>us. Us, the overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that
>>>>takes a crap on every country and expects them to clean it up.
>>>>
>>>>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
>>>>Italy or something?
>>>
>>>You're not talking about the REAL America. You are talking about 
>>>corporate America. Bush and his administration are the most un-American,
>>>ignorant and corrupt vermin to ever gain power, and they have stolen 
>>>over a trillion dollars of public money for their corporate cronies. 
>>
>>Prove it.
> 
> 
> Sheeesh!  Fred couldn't PROVE his asshole is in the back ;-)
> 
>                                         ...Jim Thompson

But I can prove that yours is between your lips- see your posts.

"Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef in bericht
news:41D40D02.60084609@swko.dot.net...
> Frank Bemelman wrote:
> >
> > "Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> > news:zqydnfVKD4EFYk7cRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> > >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!) babble, the
fact
> > is,
> > > American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
> > > "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this
f'n
> > planet.
> >
> > In your dreams.
>
> Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last figures
> I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.

And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
meant by 'generosity'.

If we delete those words from his reply, I think we can agree on:

"the fact is, 'America and Americans' accounts for third-world developmental
 and humanitarian aid".

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

Perion wrote:

 >
 > Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed as
 > gluttonous greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!)
 > babble, the fact is, American and Americans' generosity accounts for
 > the vast majority of "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid
 > that exists on this f'n planet.

Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula 
as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that our 
GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true. All of 
our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back because Bush 
  has bankrupted the government. Also, Bush has been famous for 
budgeting money and then refusing to spend it, humanitarian relief has 
definitely suffered under his administration, and USAID has been caught 
falsifying their data to an extreme on several occasions. It may be that 
the damage and death caused by the US in Iraq is of such astronomical 
proportions that the tsunami fiasco seems small by comparison.

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41D41FCA.2000007@nospam.com:

> Perion wrote:
> 
>> Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed as
>> gluttonous greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!)
>> babble, the fact is, American and Americans' generosity accounts for
>> the vast majority of "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid
>> that exists on this f'n planet.
> 
> Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula 
> as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that our
> GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true. All of
> our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back because Bush
> has bankrupted the government. Also, Bush has been famous for 
> budgeting money and then refusing to spend it, humanitarian relief has 
> definitely suffered under his administration, and USAID has been caught 
> falsifying their data to an extreme on several occasions. It may be that
> the damage and death caused by the US in Iraq is of such astronomical 
> proportions that the tsunami fiasco seems small by comparison.

The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million aid 
package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union promised 
to deliver a mere $4 million. 

I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the United 
States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of 
what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic, 
thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:17:39 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

>> Come ON, Reg!  Slipping into senility in your old age ?:-)
>>
>> Is it time to turn the Germans loose bombing London again, so that you
>> recover your memory?
>
[snip]
>
>The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
>many years by the USA.
>
>THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT.

You are one sick puppy.

>
>And how can you be so cruel as to say such nasty things to a poor, crippled,
>defenceless old man like me?  You should be ashamed of your ignorant,
>mindless self.  Have you no respect for your elders?
>
[snip]
>Old Reg.
>
>

ROTFLMAO!

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

> Case in point: compare the US response to the SE Asian tsunami disaster to 
> that of the nations that pitch the "Americans are a-holes" creed - 
> http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%255E1702,00.html 
> Check out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort! They sure put 
> their money where their mouth is - namely, up their own a**. It's a damned 
> shame Singleterry and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.

In fact, amazon.com, on behalf of the Red Cross, collected US $2.6 million 
for tsunami relief in voluntary donations (apparently almost all from 
Americans) in one day.

That is on top of the U.S. Government's "stingy" contribution ($35M?) and 
the money coming through other U.S. charities.

> And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
> place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
> meant by 'generosity'.

Are you counting aid through non-governmental sources?  We have a strong 
tradition of doing things privately rather than running all our money 
through our government.

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41D42589.2060005@nospam.com:

> 
> 
> Gactimus wrote:
>> Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
>> news:41D41FCA.2000007@nospam.com: 
>> 
>> 
>>>Perion wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed as
>>>>gluttonous greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!)
>>>>babble, the fact is, American and Americans' generosity accounts for
>>>>the vast majority of "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid
>>>>that exists on this f'n planet.
>>>
>>>Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula
>>>as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that
>>>our GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true.
>>>All of our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back
>>>because Bush has bankrupted the government. Also, Bush has been famous
>>>for budgeting money and then refusing to spend it, humanitarian relief
>>>has definitely suffered under his administration, and USAID has been
>>>caught falsifying their data to an extreme on several occasions. It may
>>>be that the damage and death caused by the US in Iraq is of such
>>>astronomical proportions that the tsunami fiasco seems small by
>>>comparison. 
>> 
>> The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million
>> aid package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
>> promised to deliver a mere $4 million. 
>> 
>> I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
>> United States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a
>> quarter of what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's
>> fantastic, thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!
> 
> Both amounts are mere tokens.

If the world is going to complain maybe the US should just rescind its
generosity. After all, they just blame America for all their problems
anyway. 

Gactimus wrote:
> Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:41D41FCA.2000007@nospam.com:
> 
> 
>>Perion wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed as
>>>gluttonous greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!)
>>>babble, the fact is, American and Americans' generosity accounts for
>>>the vast majority of "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid
>>>that exists on this f'n planet.
>>
>>Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula 
>>as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that our
>>GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true. All of
>>our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back because Bush
>>has bankrupted the government. Also, Bush has been famous for 
>>budgeting money and then refusing to spend it, humanitarian relief has 
>>definitely suffered under his administration, and USAID has been caught 
>>falsifying their data to an extreme on several occasions. It may be that
>>the damage and death caused by the US in Iraq is of such astronomical 
>>proportions that the tsunami fiasco seems small by comparison.
> 
> 
> The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million aid 
> package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union promised 
> to deliver a mere $4 million. 
> 
> I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the United 
> States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of 
> what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic, 
> thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!

Both amounts are mere tokens.

"Maleki" <maleki_m_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ofh2fmbdxnm1.al1vm3zvln70$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:32 -0800, Uncle Al wrote:
>
> > May you stand between a Marine and his goal.
>
> And what would that be? Shooting a cat?
>
> A score of your Cartoon Watcher MC tough boys would use your
> very own little ass to take cover, would _one_ Hezbollah
> fighter be pronounced present in their entire fucking ZONE.
>
> Your tough talk audience have shrunk to only Arabs. Even
> THEY're getting over it, it seems.

There are far more effective (militarily) methods that could be applied in
Iraq.  For instance, shooting anyone who's out after curfew, and have curfew
24 hours a day.  That would eliminate almost ALL of our casualties.  It
would also violate almost everything our military stands for (ie civilian
non-hostile casualties due to what amounts to negligence).  I think they'd
rather be insulted for having one of the best track records in the world for
killing as few civilians as possible, than have the minimal losses that a
more aggressive policy would allow for.

Then again, sounds like you're talking about Iraq (since they don't seem to
run from much of anything in Afghanistan).  There you're looking at the
difference between a primarily army and marine group, versus a group heavily
populated with national guard (who are not anywhere near as trained or
experienced, and aren't full-time soldiers).

People like to poke fun at the marines, simply because they can.  But in
terms of kill ratios, victories versus defeats, discipline, and general
effectiveness, they rate up there with what many countries are able to call
their own "elite" forces... except in great numbers.  The marines are not
quite SAS or other top-notch badasses, but then again that's what the
Special Forces, Green Berets, Rangers, and Seals are for.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

>
>Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula 
>as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that our 
>GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true. All of 
>our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back because Bush 
>  has bankrupted the government.

The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the stupid
dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent tax
revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending to
absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The Economy
Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?

> Also, Bush has been famous for 
>budgeting money and then refusing to spend it,

So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.

John

John Larkin <john@spamless.usa> wrote in
news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com: 

> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>
>>Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula 
>>as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that our
>>GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true. All of
>>our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back because Bush
>>  has bankrupted the government.
> 
> The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the stupid
> dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent tax
> revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending to
> absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
> prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The Economy
> Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
> 
>> Also, Bush has been famous for 
>>budgeting money and then refusing to spend it,
> 
> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.

Good because he sure doesn't.

In article <cul6t094njcmjlftpa4kpa7lv0phk8fb78@4ax.com>, 
thegreatone@example.com says...
> On 29 Dec 2004 17:16:51 -0800, "JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> >
> >My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right;
> >and if wrong, to be set right.  --Carl Schurz (1829-1906)
> >Brigade commander at Second Manassas and Fredericksburg;
> >Division commander at at Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, and Chattanooga.
> >Senator from Missouri. Secretary of the Interior.
> 
> Amen!
> 
> Two years ago I walked Gettysburg for the first time.  Leaves you
> stunned for months.

Never been to Gettysburg, but the one that stunned me was The Wall.

-- 
  Keith

I read in sci.electronics.design that Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote
(in <1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews>) about '[OT]
I hate being American', on Thu, 30 Dec 2004:
>The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million 
>aid package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union 
>promised to deliver a mere $4 million. 

That is completely incorrect. The British government has contributed
GBP50 million as of now, and the British public has contributed GBP20
million so far. Other EU countries have contributed around USD15 million
each at the last report I have. If there is a USD4 million figure
around, it's probably a contribution from the European Commission, not
the member states. 

-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message 
news:4688t01jstge9u0q8b17p801jvpj023b74@4ax.com...
<snip and line length corrected>
>>
>>The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from
>>the IRA  - financed for many years by the USA.
>>
>>THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT.
>
> You are one sick puppy.

The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
his statement is accurate, a large part of their
funding was from the US. The "whole world" may not
know but it is common knowledge in the UK. Let's
just hope the violence on both sides can be kept
historical, there is enough death and destruction
in the world without anyone adding to it.

Happy New Year

George

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:41D42589.2060005@nospam.com...
> > The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million
aid
> > package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
promised
> > to deliver a mere $4 million.
> >
> > I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
United
> > States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of
> > what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic,
> > thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!
>
> Both amounts are mere tokens.

Considering how many money problems the big (and supposedly rich) countries
have, it doesn't seem that a flat percentage of GDP is the best way to go
for working out aid.  For one thing, our military spending is considerably
higher, because unlike many smaller countries we actually have to worry
about being defensible... and unlike a great many smaller countries, we can
expect very little in the way of useful assistance should we need it.  Also,
with the large size of our country, we have to spend an inordinate amount of
our capital (compared to others) just maintaining our road ways, water
systems, transit systems, power, etc compared to others.

The Red Cross is primarily an American institution, as well as one founded
here (even though other countries finally got involved later in the game).
The Peace Corps (also an american institution, though we let others get
involved) has no equal and makes it's goal the prevention of later
humanitarian disasters, rather than knee-jerk wait-till-it's-broke
politically-motivated aid.

And when we offer aid, we do not run with our tail between our legs as soon
as things get unpleasant.  How often do you hear about us bailing out of a
disaster area because armed gunmen are nearby or we feel we can't guarantee
the security of our people (who are there regardless of risk)?  One of the
greatest issues our government has with the UN is their habit of often
leaving as soon as the job gets particularly difficult, when they're needed
most (and demanding that any our forces under their banner leave as well).

There is a lot more to international aid than waiting for things to get at
their worst, and then demand cash from anyone who's got it.

Keith Williams wrote:

> 
> 
> Never been to Gettysburg, but the one that stunned me was The Wall.

Which wall. The Wailing Wall? The Berlin Wall or the Wall in Washinton D.C.?

Bob Kolker

> 

In article <gFWAd.828060$8_6.127921@attbi_s04>, nowhere@nowhere.com 
says...
> 
> 
> Keith Williams wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Never been to Gettysburg, but the one that stunned me was The Wall.
> 
> Which wall. The Wailing Wall? The Berlin Wall or the Wall in Washinton D.C.?

Sorry. DC.


-- 
  Keith

Keith Williams wrote:

> Sorry. DC.

I concur. The solemnity of the scene was so palpable you could cut it 
with a knife. You can bet noone near the wall whistled or sang and the 
voices were berely above a whisper.

Bob Kolker

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:17:39 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:


>By far the next most likely source of weapons of mass destruction to fall on
>London will be from the USA.  We have been a USA occupied country for 63
>years.

Really? Last few times I was in England, I didn't see any troops in
the streets, US or German. Remind me, when did the US invade the UK?

>The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
>many years by the USA.

Right. The US is entirely responsible for the problems in Ireland, and
always has been.

>And how can you be so cruel as to say such nasty things to a poor, crippled,
>defenceless old man like me?

You forgot "illogical."

John

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:41:08 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:17:39 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
><g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>>By far the next most likely source of weapons of mass destruction to fall on
>>London will be from the USA.  We have been a USA occupied country for 63
>>years.
>
>Really? Last few times I was in England, I didn't see any troops in
>the streets, US or German. Remind me, when did the US invade the UK?
>
>>The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
>>many years by the USA.
>
>Right. The US is entirely responsible for the problems in Ireland, and
>always has been.
>
>>And how can you be so cruel as to say such nasty things to a poor, crippled,
>>defenceless old man like me?
>
>You forgot "illogical."
>
>John
>

And "senile" ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
news:1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews...
>
> The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million aid
> package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union promised
> to deliver a mere $4 million.
>
> I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
United
> States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of
> what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic,
> thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!

Another so-well-informed American idiot. Sigh.

The Netherlands *alone* donated 2 million Euro:
http://www2.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/16794261/Zalm:_Geld_mag_niet_het_probleem_zijn.html

Our vice-premier Zalm added that he would increase the amount if need be.

Since you probably don't have an idea what an Euro is, it's ~ 1.36 US$,
which
equals the donation of the Netherlands *alone* to some 2.7 million US$,
probably
more by the time you read this, with the dollar falling as it does. The
Netherlands
have 16 (17?) million habitants.

That said, a large fund raising campaign is started here, with a special TV
programme on the 6th Jan. I expect the people of the Netherlands will donate
at least another 5 million Euro. I would be dissapointed if it were less.

But of course the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

"John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted formula
> >as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming that our
> >GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true. All of
> >our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back because Bush
> >  has bankrupted the government.
>
> The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the stupid
> dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent tax
> revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending to
> absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
> prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The Economy
> Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
>
> > Also, Bush has been famous for
> >budgeting money and then refusing to spend it,
>
> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.

He's bad because he is a war criminal.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
news:41d43f19$0$6216$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
> news:1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews...
> >
> > The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million
aid
> > package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
promised
> > to deliver a mere $4 million.
> >
> > I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
> United
> > States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of
> > what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic,
> > thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!
>
> Another so-well-informed American idiot. Sigh.
>
> The Netherlands *alone* donated 2 million Euro:
>
http://www2.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/16794261/Zalm:_Geld_mag_niet_het_probleem_zijn.html
>
> Our vice-premier Zalm added that he would increase the amount if need be.
>
> Since you probably don't have an idea what an Euro is, it's ~ 1.36 US$,
> which
> equals the donation of the Netherlands *alone* to some 2.7 million US$,
> probably
> more by the time you read this, with the dollar falling as it does. The
> Netherlands
> have 16 (17?) million habitants.
>
> That said, a large fund raising campaign is started here, with a special
TV
> programme on the 6th Jan. I expect the people of the Netherlands will
donate
> at least another 5 million Euro. I would be dissapointed if it were less.
>
> But of course the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too.

All of this is academic.

I semi-regularly donate to organizations who's integrity I trust, and
yesterday I sent enough money to UNICEF to leave my wallet wincing (the
amount is private).

It's easy to point the finger, get into political debates, and lay blame on
whoever you seek to lay blame on, but the question is (directed at no one in
particular)... how much have YOU personally given?  Cash, clothing, food...
And how much attention do you pay to where your money gets spent?

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:04:01 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
wrote:

[snip]
>
>Do you have any idea where most of the money is spend on? I know: On
>projects being build by American companies. The 'generosity' is
>nothing more than a hidden way to support the local economy. But don't
>worry, all countries do this. Ever thought about the reason why first
>world countries are cancelling depts of third world countries so
>easely?

Extending your "reasoning", wouldn't it be best if we just stopped all
aid except where it is militarily beneficial to the USA ?:-)

For instance, we can't stop the "insurgents" in Iraq because we keep
thinking that you can fight thugs by following the Geneva Convention.
Therefore, I would propose we simply get out of Iraq, and then provide
Israel with nuke-capable missiles... they seem to be able to bend the
"rules" as suits their safety.

"Yeeee Haaaaa!"

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article <1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews>,
Gactimus  <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
>The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million aid 
>package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union promised 
>to deliver a mere $4 million. 

Compared to how much spent on recent warring?

Francis

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> schreef in bericht
news:41d43f19$0$6216$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
> news:1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews...
> >
> > The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million
aid
> > package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
promised
> > to deliver a mere $4 million.
> >
> > I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
> United
> > States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of
> > what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic,
> > thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!
>
> Another so-well-informed American idiot. Sigh.
>
> The Netherlands *alone* donated 2 million Euro:
>
http://www2.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/16794261/Zalm:_Geld_mag_niet_het_probleem_zijn.html
>
> Our vice-premier Zalm added that he would increase the amount if need be.

I was mistaken about the 2 million Euro. Another minister added 25 million
Euro, so it is 27 million Euro now. Or 36 million US$. From the Netherlands
*ALONE*. I have no idea about other countries, JW posted that the UK donates
70 GPB, that is 134 million US$. So the UK and the Netherlands gave at least
180 million US$. I'm sure the rest of Europe will donate some too.

Still, the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too. All bits help.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message 
>news:41D311EE.C25C22A8@hate.spam.net...
>>
>> Indeed.  Leave the goodies for the deserving.  Get out.
>>
>Amen! I don't know of any US policy that prevents its citizens from leaving 
>(unlike the old communist societies that had to build walls around their people 
>to keep them from fleeing).
>
>> 1) The money I make belongs to me and my family, not to a
>> government stooge who takes a cut and dumps the rest on slum bunnies
>> for squirting out babies.
>Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed as gluttonous 
>greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk!) babble, the fact is, 
>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of 
>"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this f'n planet.

Do you have any idea where most of the money is spend on? I know: On
projects being build by American companies. The 'generosity' is
nothing more than a hidden way to support the local economy. But don't
worry, all countries do this. Ever thought about the reason why first
world countries are cancelling depts of third world countries so
easely?

-- 
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

> The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
> his statement is accurate, a large part of their
> funding was from the US.

Maybe individuals acting secretly in the US, but certainly not the US 
government.

In this thread we have a lot of ambiguity as to governments vs. individuals.

Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
>
>The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million aid 
>package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union promised 
>to deliver a mere $4 million. 

Plus what every country donates from their own means. The Dutch
government already send over $US 32 million (that is $2 US per person
living in the Netherlands). 

-- 
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Frank Bemelman wrote:
> 
> Still, the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too. All bits help.

You are talking about government aid. Have you overlooked private 
contributions from Americans. They will far exceed what the government 
lays out.

Bob Kolker

George Dishman wrote:

> The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
> his statement is accurate, a large part of their
> funding was from the US. 

Funds were from some people in the US, not sanctioned by the US 
officially (except by Kennedy clan and fellow irish).

A lot of worldwide terrorism is financed by US persons (citizens and 
illegals), this does not make me or my country responsible.

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
news:41d44286$0$6211$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> I was mistaken about the 2 million Euro. Another minister added 25 million
> Euro, so it is 27 million Euro now. Or 36 million US$. From the
Netherlands
> *ALONE*. I have no idea about other countries, JW posted that the UK
donates
> 70 GPB, that is 134 million US$. So the UK and the Netherlands gave at
least
> 180 million US$. I'm sure the rest of Europe will donate some too.
>
> Still, the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too. All bits help.

Another thing to consider...

Almost all european countries, even the UK, have taxation that would never
work over here.  A large amount of per capita income goes to the government
to spend as it will.  Too much money goes to the US government, but nowhere
near the per capita amount (which leaves our government constantly a bit
more strapped for cash comparatively).  Thus our government is only one
component of the aid funding that leaves this country.

I don't see any of these arguments taking individual donations into account,
and at least in the US it's private donations that form the bulk of our
international aid.

In article <h4g8t01ur0gn5ui2kij92cf12m0diu15gm@4ax.com>, 
thegreatone@example.com says...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:04:01 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> >
> >Do you have any idea where most of the money is spend on? I know: On
> >projects being build by American companies. The 'generosity' is
> >nothing more than a hidden way to support the local economy. But don't
> >worry, all countries do this. Ever thought about the reason why first
> >world countries are cancelling depts of third world countries so
> >easely?
> 
> Extending your "reasoning", wouldn't it be best if we just stopped all
> aid except where it is militarily beneficial to the USA ?:-)
> 
> For instance, we can't stop the "insurgents" in Iraq because we keep
> thinking that you can fight thugs by following the Geneva Convention.
> Therefore, I would propose we simply get out of Iraq, and then provide
> Israel with nuke-capable missiles... they seem to be able to bend the
> "rules" as suits their safety.

I don't think they need our missiles.  A wink would do.

> "Yeeee Haaaaa!"

Is that your Major Kong, or Howard Dean impression?
 
-- 
  Keith

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:00:45 -0600, "Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net>
wrote:

>"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
>news:41d43f19$0$6216$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
>> news:1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews...
>> >
>> > The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million
>aid
>> > package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
>promised
>> > to deliver a mere $4 million.
>> >
>> > I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
>> United
>> > States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of
>> > what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic,
>> > thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!
>>
>> Another so-well-informed American idiot. Sigh.
>>
>> The Netherlands *alone* donated 2 million Euro:
>>
>http://www2.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/16794261/Zalm:_Geld_mag_niet_het_probleem_zijn.html
>>
>> Our vice-premier Zalm added that he would increase the amount if need be.
>>
>> Since you probably don't have an idea what an Euro is, it's ~ 1.36 US$,
>> which
>> equals the donation of the Netherlands *alone* to some 2.7 million US$,
>> probably
>> more by the time you read this, with the dollar falling as it does. The
>> Netherlands
>> have 16 (17?) million habitants.
>>
>> That said, a large fund raising campaign is started here, with a special
>TV
>> programme on the 6th Jan. I expect the people of the Netherlands will
>donate
>> at least another 5 million Euro. I would be dissapointed if it were less.
>>
>> But of course the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too.
>
>All of this is academic.
>
>I semi-regularly donate to organizations who's integrity I trust, and
>yesterday I sent enough money to UNICEF to leave my wallet wincing (the
>amount is private).
>
>It's easy to point the finger, get into political debates, and lay blame on
>whoever you seek to lay blame on, but the question is (directed at no one in
>particular)... how much have YOU personally given?  Cash, clothing, food...
>And how much attention do you pay to where your money gets spent?
>
>


US citizens privately donate about 3x as much foreign aid as the US
government does.

John

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:48:09 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:41:08 -0800, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:17:39 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
>><g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>By far the next most likely source of weapons of mass destruction to fall on
>>>London will be from the USA.  We have been a USA occupied country for 63
>>>years.
>>
>>Really? Last few times I was in England, I didn't see any troops in
>>the streets, US or German. Remind me, when did the US invade the UK?
>>
>>>The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
>>>many years by the USA.
>>
>>Right. The US is entirely responsible for the problems in Ireland, and
>>always has been.
>>
>>>And how can you be so cruel as to say such nasty things to a poor, crippled,
>>>defenceless old man like me?
>>
>>You forgot "illogical."
>>
>>John
>>
>
>And "senile" ;-)
>
>                                        ...Jim Thompson

Nobody can help getting old. Everybody can help from being
mean-spirited, bigoted, and ungrateful.

John

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highSNIPland
THIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote (in <v0f8t05ghh0vr2qrqth1fcms56hds2pdlv@
4ax.com>) about '[OT] I hate being American', on Thu, 30 Dec 2004:
>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:17:39 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
><g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>>By far the next most likely source of weapons of mass destruction to fall on
>>London will be from the USA.  We have been a USA occupied country for 63
>>years.
>
>Really? Last few times I was in England, I didn't see any troops in
>the streets, US or German. Remind me, when did the US invade the UK?

1917, I think. They never all went home after that! Never mind, we
tolerate the well-behaved ones. (;-)
>
And if you go to military districts (Chelsea, Aldershot, Warminster,
Hereford, Catterick etc.) you will probably see German soldiers, along
with those from numerous other countries.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

In article <CUWAd.257823$5K2.34915@attbi_s03>, nowhere@nowhere.com 
says...
> 
> 
> Keith Williams wrote:
> 
> > Sorry. DC.
> 
> I concur. The solemnity of the scene was so palpable you could cut it 
> with a knife. You can bet noone near the wall whistled or sang and the 
> voices were berely above a whisper.

It's been more than ten years since I was last there, but thinking 
about it still sends shivers.

-- 
  Keith

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:24:00 -0500, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote:

>In article <h4g8t01ur0gn5ui2kij92cf12m0diu15gm@4ax.com>, 
>thegreatone@example.com says...
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:04:01 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
>> wrote:
>> 
>> [snip]
>> >
>> >Do you have any idea where most of the money is spend on? I know: On
>> >projects being build by American companies. The 'generosity' is
>> >nothing more than a hidden way to support the local economy. But don't
>> >worry, all countries do this. Ever thought about the reason why first
>> >world countries are cancelling depts of third world countries so
>> >easely?
>> 
>> Extending your "reasoning", wouldn't it be best if we just stopped all
>> aid except where it is militarily beneficial to the USA ?:-)
>> 
>> For instance, we can't stop the "insurgents" in Iraq because we keep
>> thinking that you can fight thugs by following the Geneva Convention.
>> Therefore, I would propose we simply get out of Iraq, and then provide
>> Israel with nuke-capable missiles... they seem to be able to bend the
>> "rules" as suits their safety.
>
>I don't think they need our missiles.  A wink would do.
>
>> "Yeeee Haaaaa!"
>
>Is that your Major Kong, or Howard Dean impression?
> 

That would be Major (Slim Pickens) Kong ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"George Hein" <zweisteinREMOVETHIS@optonline.net> wrote in message 
news:41D445D0.409@optonline.net...
> George Dishman wrote:
>
>> The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
>> his statement is accurate, a large part of their
>> funding was from the US.
>
> Funds were from some people in the US, not sanctioned by the US officially 
> (except by Kennedy clan and fellow irish).
>
> A lot of worldwide terrorism is financed by US persons (citizens and 
> illegals), this does not make me or my country responsible.

You also replied by email and I replied to that
first so I won't go into detail. This whole thing
is off-topic anyway so I probably won'r respond
further. The fund-raising organisation was official
and not banned by the US as many are elsewhere.
Turning a blind eye is no excuse.

George

>Two years ago I walked Gettysburg for the first time.
>Leaves you stunned for months.
> Jim Thompson

A segment of Ken Burns' presentation brings home
on an individual level what those men were thinking:
(from a soldier's diary, written before the battle)
[date]
Cold Harbor, Virginia
I died.

A man less elequent than Mr. Lincoln
couldn't do justice to the dedication at Gettysburg.[1]

Since my father's death (Daddy was a career military officer)
news items that call to mind the phrase
"their last full measure" bring a lump to my throat.
Daddy didn't die in the line of duty,
so I don't know quite what the connection is--it just happens.

[1]Ironically, the featured speaker (Edward Everett)
rambled on for 2 hours before the President spoke.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:18:59 -0600, "Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net>
wrote:

>"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
>news:41d44286$0$6211$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> I was mistaken about the 2 million Euro. Another minister added 25 million
>> Euro, so it is 27 million Euro now. Or 36 million US$. From the
>Netherlands
>> *ALONE*. I have no idea about other countries, JW posted that the UK
>donates
>> 70 GPB, that is 134 million US$. So the UK and the Netherlands gave at
>least
>> 180 million US$. I'm sure the rest of Europe will donate some too.
>>
>> Still, the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too. All bits help.
>
>Another thing to consider...
>
>Almost all european countries, even the UK, have taxation that would never
>work over here.  A large amount of per capita income goes to the government
>to spend as it will.  Too much money goes to the US government, but nowhere
>near the per capita amount (which leaves our government constantly a bit
>more strapped for cash comparatively).  Thus our government is only one
>component of the aid funding that leaves this country.
>
>I don't see any of these arguments taking individual donations into account,
>and at least in the US it's private donations that form the bulk of our
>international aid.
>


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/30/EDG13AI5D51.DTL

John

"Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in
news:10t8ho0sckp963a@corp.supernews.com: 

> "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
> news:41d44286$0$6211$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
>> I was mistaken about the 2 million Euro. Another minister added 25
>> million Euro, so it is 27 million Euro now. Or 36 million US$. From the
>> Netherlands *ALONE*. I have no idea about other countries, JW posted
>> that the UK donates 70 GPB, that is 134 million US$. So the UK and the
>> Netherlands gave at least 180 million US$. I'm sure the rest of Europe
>> will donate some too. 
>>
>> Still, the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too. All bits
>> help. 
> 
> Another thing to consider...
> 
> Almost all european countries, even the UK, have taxation that would
> never work over here.  A large amount of per capita income goes to the
> government to spend as it will.  Too much money goes to the US
> government, but nowhere near the per capita amount (which leaves our
> government constantly a bit more strapped for cash comparatively).  Thus
> our government is only one component of the aid funding that leaves this
> country. 
> 
> I don't see any of these arguments taking individual donations into
> account, and at least in the US it's private donations that form the
> bulk of our international aid.

The US is also providing military assets to help including an aircraft
carrier. Also, many American drug companies have donated much needed
medicine and companies like Coca-Cola have donated thousands of bottles of
water. 

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
news:41d43f7b$0$6217$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl: 

> "John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
> news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
>
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted
>>> formula as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it,
>>> claiming that our GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other,
>>> which is true. All of our developmental and humanitarian aid is being
>>> scaled back because Bush has bankrupted the government.
>>
>> The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the stupid
>> dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent tax
>> revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending to
>> absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
>> prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The Economy
>> Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
>>
>>> Also, Bush has been famous for budgeting money and then refusing to
>>> spend it, 
>>
>> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
> 
> He's bad because he is a war criminal.

I can see how a terrorist sympathizer like yourself could come to that 
conclusion.

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> schreef in bericht
news:33ium0F40ao52U1@individual.net...
>
>
> Frank Bemelman wrote:
> >
> > Still, the $15 million from the entire US is welcome too. All bits help.
>
> You are talking about government aid. Have you overlooked private
> contributions from Americans. They will far exceed what the government
> lays out.

I bet it does, I just got a bit pissed over this Gactimus idiot.


-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
news:stCdnSNiyuMl00ncRVn-gA@rcn.net...
> "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
> news:41d43f7b$0$6217$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
>
> > "John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
> > news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
> >
> >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted
> >>> formula as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it,
> >>> claiming that our GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other,
> >>> which is true. All of our developmental and humanitarian aid is being
> >>> scaled back because Bush has bankrupted the government.
> >>
> >> The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the stupid
> >> dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent tax
> >> revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending to
> >> absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
> >> prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The Economy
> >> Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
> >>
> >>> Also, Bush has been famous for budgeting money and then refusing to
> >>> spend it,
> >>
> >> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
> >
> > He's bad because he is a war criminal.
>
> I can see how a terrorist sympathizer like yourself could come to that
> conclusion.

Drop dead, you miserable piece of shit.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
news:41d453f9$0$6205$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl: 

> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
> news:stCdnSNiyuMl00ncRVn-gA@rcn.net...
>
>> "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
>> news:41d43f7b$0$6217$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
>>
>>> "John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
>>> news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted
>>>>> formula as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it,
>>>>> claiming that our GNP grew disproportionately faster than any
>>>>> other, which is true. All of our developmental and humanitarian aid
>>>>> is being scaled back because Bush has bankrupted the government.
>>>>
>>>> The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the
>>>> stupid dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent
>>>> tax revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending
>>>> to absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
>>>> prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The Economy
>>>> Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
>>>>
>>>>> Also, Bush has been famous for budgeting money and then refusing to
>>>>> spend it,
>>>>
>>>> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
>>>
>>> He's bad because he is a war criminal.
>>
>> I can see how a terrorist sympathizer like yourself could come to that
>> conclusion.
> 
> Drop dead, you miserable piece of shit.

Your cowardice and avoidance tactics are duly noted.

"Jim Thompson" wrote

> ROTFLMAO!
>
=================================

It's so easy to take the piss out of you naturally aggressive, enormously
overarmed with your weapons of mass destruction, and space-wars Yanks.

But the rest of the World can only take hope that the ordinary USA citizens
and voters will eventually see the cold light of reason and take control of
the war-like machinations, the continuous bombing of innocent populations
amounting to genocide, (indirectly of course) by the oil and energy
corporations, their bankers and their shareholders

Earthquakes do quite enough damage without even greater USA intervention.

Again, sincerely, best wishes to USA citizens for a prosperous 2005.
----
Yours, Old Reg.

Reg Edwards wrote:

> 
> It's so easy to take the piss out of you naturally aggressive, enormously
> overarmed with your weapons of mass destruction, and space-wars Yanks.
> 
> But the rest of the World can only take hope that the ordinary USA citizens
> and voters will eventually see the cold light of reason and take control of
> the war-like machinations, the continuous bombing of innocent populations
> amounting to genocide, (indirectly of course) by the oil and energy
> corporations, their bankers and their shareholders

Once we find a way of killing the people without destroying the assets, 
America will become the New Rome. Resistance is futile. The Romans did 
not give a rat's ass about the rights of the people they conquered, why 
should we?

Bob Kolker

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> writes:

> Reg Edwards wrote:
>
>> It's so easy to take the piss out of you naturally aggressive,
>> enormously overarmed with your weapons of mass destruction, and
>> space-wars Yanks.  But the rest of the World can only take hope
>> that the ordinary USA citizens and voters will eventually see the
>> cold light of reason and take control of the war-like machinations,
>> the continuous bombing of innocent populations amounting to
>> genocide, (indirectly of course) by the oil and energy
>> corporations, their bankers and their shareholders
>
> Once we find a way of killing the people without destroying the
> assets, America will become the New Rome.

Uh, wasn't that the purpose of the neutron bomb?  Killing people, but
leaving most of the buildings and machines intact?

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Reg Edwards wrote:

>>Come ON, Reg!  Slipping into senility in your old age ?:-)
>>
>>Is it time to turn the Germans loose bombing London again, so that you
>>recover your memory?

> By far the next most likely source of weapons of mass destruction to fall on
> London will be from the USA.

   On what (other than paranoid fear-mongering) do you base 
that statement?

>  We have been a USA occupied country for 63
> years.

   Tit for tat. Well, not quite; you don't have our Marines 
billeted in your homes, eating your food.

> And the whole world knows from ill-experience what kind of things
> happen to USA occupied countries if they don't behave according to USA
> dictators.  Witness Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebonan, Libya, Yugoslavia,
> Afganistan, and for the last 13 years, Iraq.  And other smaller countries.

   Just following your lead; it worked so very well for the 
British Empire.

> You've killed more innocent people than earthquakes.

   "Innocent" people?

   How many did the Empire kill?

> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
> many years by the USA.

   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever 
went to support the IRA.

   And we know why there are so many "Irish-Americans", 
don't we; look how well your government treated the Irish 
historically, and treats the few that remain.

> THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT.

   Most people "know" things that are demonstrably not true.

> And how can you be so cruel as to say such nasty things to a poor, crippled,
> defenceless old man like me?  You should be ashamed of your ignorant,
> mindless self.  Have you no respect for your elders?

   Not when they're crusty old gits. Were you a crusty young 
git?

> But I wish all USA citizens a very peaceful, happy and prosperous 2005.

   Isn't that nice. Same to you.

> After all said and done, they have the military and media means of enforcing
> it, as I'm quite sure they certainly will.

   As you no longer have.

   Mark L. Fergerson

>>where most of the money is [spent]
>> Nico Coesel
>
>Extending your "reasoning",
>wouldn't it be best if we just stopped all aid
>except where it is militarily beneficial to the USA ?:-)
> Jim Thompson
>
Substitute "stragically" for "militarily"
and that's pretty much what we do.
Only a semantic difference, really.

>simply get [US] out of Iraq
>...then provide Israel with nuke-capable missiles.
>"Yeeee Haaaaa!"
>
<image of Slim Pickins straddling an ICBM>  8-)

"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message 
news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
> Reg Edwards wrote:
>>
>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed 
>> for
>> many years by the USA.
>
>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever went to support 
> the IRA.

The organisation that collects those donations
is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
government that comes out of the taxes you pay.

George

I read in sci.electronics.design that robert j. kolker
<nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote (in <33j4vrF3vdvhlU2@individual.net>) about
'[OT] I hate being American', on Thu, 30 Dec 2004:
>The Romans did 
>not give a rat's ass about the rights of the people they conquered, why 
>should we?

Depends what you mean by 'rights'. The Romans were highly civilized for
their time and certainly didn't do Britain a lot of harm.  By the time
they left in 450AD, the Britons were begging them to stay, because the
incursive Picts, Irish and Saxons weren't a bit civilized.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
wrote (in <2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Thu, 30 Dec 2004:

>  And we know why there are so many "Irish-Americans", don't we; look 
>how well your government treated the Irish historically, and treats the 
>few that remain.

That last bit is way off. Most of Ireland is a separate country, of
course, that has done very well indeed out of EU membership. The
remaining problems with the Six Counties are now very clearly down to
the political representatives of the majority of the inhabitants, not
the British government. This is democracy at not-work.

The Reverend Ian Paisley has the same attitude as Yasser Arafat, and the
only solution may be the passage of time.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0000, "George Dishman"
<george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message 
>news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
>> Reg Edwards wrote:
>>>
>>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed 
>>> for
>>> many years by the USA.
>>
>>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever went to support 
>> the IRA.
>
>The organisation that collects those donations
>is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
>tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
>government that comes out of the taxes you pay.
>
>George
>

Charities (IRS 501-C-x corporations) don't pay taxes, NOR receive
subsidies.

Personally, I'd like to see churches taxed... particularly yours ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Everett Hickey wrote:
> "Maleki" <maleki_m_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:32 -0800, Uncle Al wrote:
>>
>>
>>>May you stand between a Marine and his goal.
>>
>>And what would that be? Shooting a cat?
>>
>>A score of your Cartoon Watcher MC tough boys would use your
>>very own little ass to take cover, would _one_ Hezbollah
>>fighter be pronounced present in their entire fucking ZONE.
>>
>>Your tough talk audience have shrunk to only Arabs. Even
>>THEY're getting over it, it seems.
> 
> 
> There are far more effective (militarily) methods that could be applied in
> Iraq.  For instance, shooting anyone who's out after curfew, and have curfew
> 24 hours a day.

Or you could set up ovens and gas chambers.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:41:36 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:24:00 -0500, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
> wrote:
> 
>>In article <h4g8t01ur0gn5ui2kij92cf12m0diu15gm@4ax.com>, 
>>thegreatone@example.com says...
>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:04:01 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [snip]
>>> >
>>> >Do you have any idea where most of the money is spend on? I know: On
>>> >projects being build by American companies. The 'generosity' is
>>> >nothing more than a hidden way to support the local economy. But don't
>>> >worry, all countries do this. Ever thought about the reason why first
>>> >world countries are cancelling depts of third world countries so
>>> >easely?
>>> 
>>> Extending your "reasoning", wouldn't it be best if we just stopped all
>>> aid except where it is militarily beneficial to the USA ?:-)
>>> 
>>> For instance, we can't stop the "insurgents" in Iraq because we keep
>>> thinking that you can fight thugs by following the Geneva Convention.
>>> Therefore, I would propose we simply get out of Iraq, and then provide
>>> Israel with nuke-capable missiles... they seem to be able to bend the
>>> "rules" as suits their safety.
>>
>>I don't think they need our missiles.  A wink would do.
>>
>>> "Yeeee Haaaaa!"
>>
>>Is that your Major Kong, or Howard Dean impression?
>> 
> 
> That would be Major (Slim Pickens) Kong ;-)

I thought so, but they're both spelled the same.  ;-)

-- 
  Keith

Frank Bemelman wrote:
> "Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
>>>>"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this
>>>> f'n
>>>planet.
>>>
>>>In your dreams.
>>
>>Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last figures
>>I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
> 
> And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
> place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
> meant by 'generosity'.

If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
aid to the tsunami victims.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in
news:10t8qkpmlvqksb9@corp.supernews.com: 

> Frank Bemelman wrote:
>
>> "Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
>>
>>> Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>>>
>>>>> American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
>>>>> "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this
>>>>> f'n planet.
>>>>
>>>> In your dreams.
>>>
>>> Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last
>>> figures I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
>> 
>> And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the
>> 20th place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure
>> what Perion meant by 'generosity'.
> 
> If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
> industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
> aid to the tsunami victims.

With all their bitching, they're lucky they get anything at all.

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1104420898.eb8c37161c2b8c47f4a498360246e13e@bubbanews...
> Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:41D41FCA.2000007@nospam.com:
>
> > Perion wrote:
> >
> >> Even though making money and private property ownership is viewed
as
> >> gluttonous greed in the anti-American knee-jerk (emphasis on
jerk!)
> >> babble, the fact is, American and Americans' generosity accounts
for
> >> the vast majority of "third-world" developmental and humanitarian
aid
> >> that exists on this f'n planet.
> >
> > Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted
formula
> > as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming
that our
> > GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true.
All of
> > our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back
because Bush
> > has bankrupted the government. Also, Bush has been famous for
> > budgeting money and then refusing to spend it, humanitarian relief
has
> > definitely suffered under his administration, and USAID has been
caught
> > falsifying their data to an extreme on several occasions. It may
be that
> > the damage and death caused by the US in Iraq is of such
astronomical
> > proportions that the tsunami fiasco seems small by comparison.
>
> The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15
million aid
> package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
promised
> to deliver a mere $4 million.

Your numbers need rather serious revising.
The amount so far contributed by the UK population and Government is
in excess of 70 million GBP, which is well in excess of 100 million
US$
I also note that you said that the US "prepared" a $15 million aid
package.  The time for preparation is past.  Tell your folk to get on
with the deployment of that package and to multiply it by at least a
factor 10 to maintain parity with the efforts of other countries.

[snip]

Franz

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:ISVAd.212$Fs7.51@fe04.lga...
> John Larkin <john@spamless.usa> wrote in
> news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com:
>
> > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the accepted
formula
> >>as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it, claiming
that our
> >>GNP grew disproportionately faster than any other, which is true.
All of
> >>our developmental and humanitarian aid is being scaled back
because Bush
> >>  has bankrupted the government.
> >
> > The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the
stupid
> > dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent tax
> > revenues, state and federal government ratched up their spending
to
> > absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
> > prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The
Economy
> > Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
> >
> >> Also, Bush has been famous for
> >>budgeting money and then refusing to spend it,
> >
> > So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
>
> Good because he sure doesn't.

That is obvious to the whole world.

Franz

"David Kastrup" <dak@gnu.org> schreef in bericht
news:x5652ksxs6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz...
> Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com> writes:
>
> > I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate
> > it at the same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's
> > because of us. Us, the overweight, pompous, arrogant population of
> > America that takes a crap on every country and expects them to clean
> > it up.
> >
> > Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
> > Italy or something?
>
> It's your own choice whether you are overweight, pompous and arrogant,
> take a crap on every or your own country and expect others to clean it
> up.
>
> And that holds whether you are born in the U.S., England, Sweden,
> Germany, Italy, or anywhere else.
>
> --
> David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Heir heir!!

"Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10t8dnjav3nvub7@corp.supernews.com...

[snip]

> For one thing, our military spending is considerably
> higher, because unlike many smaller countries we actually have to
worry
> about being defensible...

It is a great pity that Iraq did not worry more about being defensible
before you barged in there.

[snip]

Franz

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
news:41d453f9$0$6205$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
> news:stCdnSNiyuMl00ncRVn-gA@rcn.net...
> > "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
> > news:41d43f7b$0$6217$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
> >
> > > "John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
> > > news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:33:51 GMT, Fred Bloggs
<nospam@nospam.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Not as a percentage of GNP we don't. This has been the
accepted
> > >>> formula as to share of aid, but the US backed out of using it,
> > >>> claiming that our GNP grew disproportionately faster than any
other,
> > >>> which is true. All of our developmental and humanitarian aid
is being
> > >>> scaled back because Bush has bankrupted the government.
> > >>
> > >> The government is not bankrupt. The defecit is huge because the
stupid
> > >> dot-com bubble created enormous paper profits and subsequent
tax
> > >> revenues, state and federal government ratched up their
spending to
> > >> absorb it and then some, then the bottom fell out of the fake
> > >> prosperity. It all happened before 2002, when Mr. "It's The
Economy
> > >> Stupid" was running things. Nice job, huh?
> > >>
> > >>> Also, Bush has been famous for budgeting money and then
refusing to
> > >>> spend it,
> > >>
> > >> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
> > >
> > > He's bad because he is a war criminal.
> >
> > I can see how a terrorist sympathizer like yourself could come to
that
> > conclusion.
>
> Drop dead, you miserable piece of shit.

I second that.  He is precisely the kind of jingoistic prat who gives
the US such a bad name in international circles at all levels.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cr1tib$nbd$1@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> "Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:10t8dnjav3nvub7@corp.supernews.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> > For one thing, our military spending is considerably
> > higher, because unlike many smaller countries we actually have to
> worry
> > about being defensible...
>
> It is a great pity that Iraq did not worry more about being defensible
> before you barged in there.

While people over here (the US) are generally upset over how the thing was
handled (both before and after), complaints about it having been done at all
don't affect us a great deal, considering that it's widely agreed upon that
it needed to be done.  It didn't need to be done as badly as it was, and the
timing wasn't great... but unlike Iran and other neighbors of his that we
don't get along well with, he was the only one who had repeatedly used ANY
weapon at his disposal to kill ANYONE who stood in his way (just ask Iran,
or your average Kurd).  We knew Iran had similar weapons, but have never
been known to use them (plus they've always been a bit more honest, if
blunt, than Hussein - and they do change leadership periodically).

How many unstoppable human disasters have occured in Europe (where racial
holocaust seems to be a somewhat common occurance) because everyone was
afraid to get their hands a little dirty until it was too late?  Once people
begin to die by the millions (as they often do), it's a little late to start
worrying about putting a stop to what never should have been allowed to
start.

And Iraq DID worry about being defensible.  What did you think most of that
UN Food program was paying for?  Food?  Another reason the US isn't quite so
big on shelling out cash to other countries - much better to give them the
goods we intended to give them, and not worry about what they're doing with
the cash.  If they're starving, give them food.  If they're freezing, give
them heaters and blankets and clothing.  If someone's harassing them, and
their enemies aren't willing to talk, give them bullets - at extremely high
speed.  If you look at the actual aid given out by the US, we supply more
FOOD for the rest of the world than even the most prosperous agricultural
nations, even after you count cash value.

History, both recent and otherwise, demonstrates that talk is a great way to
resolve most disputes... but when it fails, it all means nothing if the
words weren't backed up by a willingness to act on them.  That applies to
aid as well as anything else.

"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
news:cr1u07$he3$1@hercules.btinternet.com: 
 
> "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
> news:41d453f9$0$6205$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
>> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
>> news:stCdnSNiyuMl00ncRVn-gA@rcn.net...
>>
>>> "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
>>> news:41d43f7b$0$6217$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
>>>
>>>> "John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
>>>> news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Bush has been famous for budgeting money and then refusing
>>>>>> to spend it, 
>>>>>
>>>>> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
>>>>
>>>> He's bad because he is a war criminal.
>>>
>>> I can see how a terrorist sympathizer like yourself could come to
>>> that conclusion.
>>
>> Drop dead, you miserable piece of shit.
> 
> I second that.  He is precisely the kind of jingoistic prat who gives
> the US such a bad name in international circles at all levels.

I see, but calling President Bush a war criminal is somehow "intelligent 
discussion".

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> 
> Or you could set up ovens and gas chambers.

Pulling our people out and nuking the place would do the trick.

As the fireballs bloom and the flesh vaporizes my statement to the Imams 
and Mullahs is : Terrorize this!

Bob Kolker

In article <10t8dnjav3nvub7@corp.supernews.com>,
	"Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> writes:
> "Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:41D42589.2060005@nospam.com...
>> > The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million
> aid
>> > package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union
> promised
>> > to deliver a mere $4 million.
>> >
>> > I am SO glad that we have the EU with an almost identical GDP as the
> United
>> > States and a vastly greater population to donate just over a quarter of
>> > what the United States gave in immediate foreign aid. That's fantastic,
>> > thanks Monsieur Chirac! Thanks Herr Schroeder!
>>
>> Both amounts are mere tokens.
> 
> Considering how many money problems the big (and supposedly rich) countries
> have, it doesn't seem that a flat percentage of GDP is the best way to go
> for working out aid.
>
It is very probable that the GOVERNMENTAL measures of aid are quite a bit
lower than the measures of private aid for the US.  It really isn't the
'American' philosophy for the government to confiscate, but it sometimes
does so anyway.

John

"Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in message 
news:10t8ho0sckp963a@corp.supernews.com...
....
> I don't see any of these arguments taking individual donations into 
> account,
> and at least in the US it's private donations that form the bulk of our
> international aid.

www.dec.org.uk

They opened up the site for donations yesterday and
had already received over 25 million UKP in the last
24 hours and it's still coming in at over a million
an hour.

The uk government has also increased its contribution
to 50 million (about $95M).

George

Al; Do you know which UK design firm developed the family of DDS, peer to 
peer/peer to host modular instruments that is currently marketed in the US 
as Moore Industries I/O Express? I ask you because your interests are very 
eclectic, and your posts are succinct and pertinent.
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message 
news:41D35AEC.F6DA63E3@hate.spam.net...
> "Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:
>>
>> "Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote
>>
>> > 3) To err is human, to forgive, divine.  Neither one is Marine
>> >    Corps policy.
>>
>> Which one is it that policy forbids:
>>
>>    To err
>>    To be human
>>    To forgive
>>    To be divine
>
> May you stand between a Marine and his goal.  Mean Mother Green is all
> about Peace on Earth - but only behind her.
>
> -- 
> Uncle Al
> http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
> (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
> http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf 

robert j. kolker wrote:
> 
> 
> Reg Edwards wrote:
> 
>>
>> It's so easy to take the piss out of you naturally aggressive, enormously
>> overarmed with your weapons of mass destruction, and space-wars Yanks.
>>
>> But the rest of the World can only take hope that the ordinary USA 
>> citizens
>> and voters will eventually see the cold light of reason and take 
>> control of
>> the war-like machinations, the continuous bombing of innocent populations
>> amounting to genocide, (indirectly of course) by the oil and energy
>> corporations, their bankers and their shareholders
> 
> 
> Once we find a way of killing the people without destroying the assets, 
> America will become the New Rome. Resistance is futile. The Romans did 
> not give a rat's ass about the rights of the people they conquered, why 
> should we?
> 
> Bob Kolker
> 

The Romans never could subdue Iraq either. Someone needs to get a clue. 
The last bunch of retards who likened themselves to Rome wore a swastika.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:59:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

>You're not talking about the REAL America.

Freddy speaks for the neo-commies of Europe.

vonroach wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:59:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>You're not talking about the REAL America.
> 
> 
> Freddy speaks for the neo-commies of Europe.

You mean like Putin who supports and endorses Bush.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Frank Bemelman wrote:
>> "Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
>>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>>"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
>>>>>"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this
>>>>> f'n
>>>>planet.
>>>>
>>>>In your dreams.
>>>
>>>Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last figures
>>>I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
>> 
>> And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
>> place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
>> meant by 'generosity'.
> 
> If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
> industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
> aid to the tsunami victims.

Cite please!  FWIG, the US is up to $200M, and I'm quite sure the
transportation costs (paid by guess who) will be far more than what any
pissant Europisson country could manage. ...can't even handle your own
back yard, fer chrissakes!

-- 
  Keith

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:21:54 +0000, Fred Bloggs wrote:

> 
> 
> vonroach wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:59:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>You're not talking about the REAL America.
>> 
>> 
>> Freddy speaks for the neo-commies of Europe.
> 
> You mean like Putin who supports and endorses Bush.

Oh, yeah, freddie.  They're two peas in a pod.  Putin sure liked Bush in
the Yush afair. ...Frappin' moron.

-- 
  Keith

To anybody who cares to listen.

Your intelligence, for years, has been and still is being insulted!

Non-existent weapons of mass destruction and all the other stated reasons
for the war, were and still are, just a smoke screen to distract and cover
up the real reason for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the loss of a
million innocent lives during the last 13 years, worse than earthquakes,
with future planned extensions into Central Asia up to Chinese borders.
There is also a pincer movement against Beijing via North Korea.


The true reason for the extended war, unstated but perfectly obvious for
years, is to obtain direct control, by the Oil & Energy Corporations with
their Bankers, of the vital Oil Fields and Pipelines to the west.


The continuing war in Palestine is just another sideline to the overall
general operation financed by the USA.


Bush and Blair are mere willing and paid pawns of the Corporations, now
beginning to be detested by the voters of both countries.


The remaining 5 billion of the World's population, not having the democratic
right to vote in the matter, can only hope that common sense will prevail
and Armageddon already begun, will be ultimately averted.


But I fear such warnings will remain unheeded.  The human race, even with
its gigobit microprocessors, has insufficient intelligence to cope with its
self-induced problems.  Just look at the chaotic state Windows is in!

Microsoft is just another of the undemocratic corporations which has a
budget greater than many whole countries.  It is they who are really ruling
this Earth!
----
Reg.

"Bob Stephens" <stephensyomamadigital@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1aq6qfutufejk$.k93xe4cw2fjc$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry wrote:
>
> > I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it
at the
> > same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us,
the
> > overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on
> > every country and expects them to clean it up.
> >
> > Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or
Italy or
> > something?
>
> You weren't actually born at all in the commonly accepted sense. You were
> excreted. FOAD POS - Twice!

Lucky bugger!! - best country in the World in my humble opinion!!!!
(nice people too, by the way).

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:lrqdnTX-Sqrl8UncRVn-ow@rcn.net...

[snip]
> > If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
> > industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
> > aid to the tsunami victims.
>
> With all their bitching, they're lucky they get anything at all.

You are a bloody disgusting piece of crap made in USA
You are so low that you could walk under the shadow of a snake's arse
with an umbrella over your head.

Franz.

> The uk government has also increased its contribution
> to 50 million (about $95M).
>
================================

A political publicity stunt.  �1 per head of the population. Which, as
usual, will probably never be paid.  It would mean a slight increase in
income tax which the generous British public, failing to make any
connection, will vote against as a matter of principle.

Of what use is pence to someone, a solitary family survivor, with absolutely
nothing except broken bones, not even drinking water, suffering from
dysentry or worse, lying on concrete, in a destroyed building with no roof
and no doctors (themselves casuaties) and no medicines or bandages.

Here, have a reel of Elastoplast!

Chicken feed in comparison with what's really needed.

What has been done, or is being done, about the millions of suffering
survivors of 13 years of USA weapons of mass destruction rained, at immense
cost to taxpayers, and a very few USA lives, on Iraqi and Afganistan towns
and cities?

Have the bridges across the Danube in Yugoslavia been rebuilt yet?

Have the anti-personel mines in Vietnam and Cambodia, with Agent Orange,
been cleared away yet?

The only expected beneficiaries of what amounts to genocide are the USA
controlled Oil & Energy Corporations and their Bankers.

George and Tony are merely paid pawns in the game.
----
Reg.

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message 
news:c7q8t0pksqf2ihrkbvjktda8h41k1g3rsr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0000, "George Dishman"
> <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>The organisation that collects those donations
>>is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
>>tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
>>government that comes out of the taxes you pay.
>
> Charities (IRS 501-C-x corporations) don't pay taxes,
> NOR receive subsidies.

That was my point, non-payment is equivalent
to a refund compared to organisations and
individuals who do pay.

> Personally, I'd like to see churches taxed... particularly yours ;-)

You erroneously assume I suffer from religion.
The people of Asia will be helped only by
other humans, there are no deities to wave a
magic wand and make it all better.

www.dec.org.uk

George

In article <cr3613$rm4$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
	"George Dishman" <george@briar.demon.co.uk> writes:
> 
> "Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message 
> 
>> Personally, I'd like to see churches taxed... particularly yours ;-)
> 
> You erroneously assume I suffer from religion.
> The people of Asia will be helped only by
> other humans, there are no deities to wave a
> magic wand and make it all better.
> 
Note that the 'religious institutions' tend to be very efficient
at delivering aid.  Even organizations (in the US) like the United
Way have alot of built-in overhead.  Even if I wasn't a member of
a given church, I would feel very comfortable in donating to specific
religious organizations.

John

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
>>
>> Or you could set up ovens and gas chambers.
> 
> 
> Pulling our people out and nuking the place would do the trick.
> 
> As the fireballs bloom and the flesh vaporizes my statement to the Imams
> and Mullahs is : Terrorize this!

Fight terrorism with bigger terrorism?

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

keith wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>
>>>"Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
>>>
>>>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
>>>>>>"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this
>>>>>>f'n
>>>>>
>>>>>planet.
>>>>>
>>>>>In your dreams.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last figures
>>>>I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
>>>
>>>And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
>>>place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
>>>meant by 'generosity'.
>>
>>If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
>>industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
>>aid to the tsunami victims.
> 
> Cite please!  FWIG, the US is up to $200M,

And you ask ME for a cite?  The US has promised $35M.

> and I'm quite sure the
> transportation costs (paid by guess who) will be far more than what any
> pissant Europisson country could manage. ...can't even handle your own
> back yard, fer chrissakes!

The US is increasingly becoming a third world nation while
Europe has better healthcare and lower poverty rates and you
accuse Europe of not being able to take care of its own
backyard?

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message 
news:cr32s9$96m$11@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
> news:lrqdnTX-Sqrl8UncRVn-ow@rcn.net...
>
> [snip]
>> > If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
>> > industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
>> > aid to the tsunami victims.
>>
>> With all their bitching, they're lucky they get anything at all.
>
> You are a bloody disgusting piece of crap made in USA
> You are so low that you could walk under the shadow of a snake's arse
> with an umbrella over your head.
>
> Franz.
First off, fuck you Franz!

Secondly, fuck you Franz!

Perion 

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message 
news:41d41bd1$0$6212$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
> place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
> meant by 'generosity'.
>
> If we delete those words from his reply, I think we can agree on:
>
> "the fact is, 'America and Americans' accounts for third-world developmental
> and humanitarian aid".
>
In terms of official government spending, it's true - generosity was a poor 
choice of wording. America has been steadily turning away from foreign aid over 
the past 10 - 15 years and personally, I'm glad. However (and this is a big 
however), the figures usually cited for national contribution to foreign aid 
don't take into account private, charitable, and other non-government, 
donations. Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas (year 2000 
estimates) -- more than THREE TIMES the U.S. official foreign aid of $10 
billion. Here's a brief breakdown:

1. International giving by U.S. foundations (i.e. greedy capitalist pigs) totals 
$1.5 billion per year
2. Charitable giving by those evil U.S. businesses comes to at least $2.8 
billion annually
3. American NGOs gave over $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.
4. Religious overseas ministries contribute $3.4 billion, including health care, 
literacy training, relief and development.
5. $1.3 billion by U.S. colleges are given in scholarships to foreign students 
(as many of you anti-US whiners are personally aware).
6. Personal remittances from the U.S. to developing countries came to $18 
billion in 2000

Here's my take on the foreign aid deal:
In the long run, it's easy to make the case that foreign aid is 
counter-productive for the recipient nation and is just an economic drain on the 
doner's economy (in spite of the fact that most aid is given with self-serving 
geo-political motives). In many American's minds, foreign aid is just another 
(huge) international welfare endeavor done for the usual hidden purposes of 
welfare systems - to buy influence and foster dependency. The US has been 
turning away from that worthless socialistic tactic toward a "trade, not aid" 
philosophy. Besides - who wants to give money and resources to someone in need 
when, in countless instances, those resources just end up lining the pockets of 
some foreign government bureaucrats who then turn around and bitch and whine and 
eventually call you a greedy a-hole and then stab you in the back at every 
opportunity.  It's not surprising that we have been rethinking the whole 
international welfare crap.

Historically, Americans have a long tradition of generously [yea, that's right - 
the G word] aiding the victims of foreign earthquakes, famines, and wars. Before 
World War II, private citizens provided almost all of America's foreign 
assistance. After World War II, the Truman administration decided that a larger, 
more centralized effort was necessary to revitalize the war-torn economies of 
Europe. Economic planning was the rage in Washington in the late 1940s, and 
Marshall Plan administrators exported their new-found panacea. The Marshall Plan 
poured over $13 billion [i.e. a lot of f'n bucks at the time!] into Europe and 
coincided with an economic revival across the continent. [Out of curiosity, I 
wonder how many $ billion other nations have poured into the US's development?]

Thanx to the post WW2 communist bloc's aggressive agenda of enslaving the world 
with ridiculous Marxist BS, the resulting "cold war" diverted untold hundreds of 
$billions away from potentially worthwhile and culturally productive 
expenditures just to deal with that idiotic non-sense. Since 1946, the US has 
given hundreds of $billion in humanitarian assistance to foreign countries.

As I stated earlier, I think that foreign aid is counter-productive for the 
recipient and an almost worthless drain on the doner's economy. For example, 
back in 1985 and the heyday of doling out $billions, despite receiving over $10 
billion in U.S. aid, Egypt remained desperately poor and the billions had little 
positive impact on Egypt's core economic problems. It committed to government 
dominance of the economy, and the United States made little effort to dissuade 
it from its wasteful economic policies.  Bottom line - $10 billion down the 
poop-chute. That same year AID spent $24 million in Egypt over five years trying 
to construct 29 government-run and 10 private bakeries. Egypt decided to 
decrease bread-production costs by centralizing bread baking, but the project 
was badly mismanaged: rather than hustling to build the bakeries, the contractor 
placed the original grant money in interest-bearing accounts! So, my question 
is: what the hell did we accomplish except in making some Egyptian contractors 
and a few government officials rich??? Hint: nothing except maybe pissing off 
some future Islamicists like Mohammed Ata.

In conclusion, hopefully the US will get out of the economic and political 
affairs of other nations, including foreign aid. That's what they want 
(excepting the aid, of course) and that's what a helluva lot of us Americans 
want. Foreign aid does little good in the long run except promote corruption, 
undermine local economies, develop a welfare mentality, and breed contempt. I'll 
gladly contribute to emergency relief situations as they arise, as I have in 
this particular tsunami disaster, but the hell with government sponsored aid - 
let each nation fend for itself.

Happy New Year :-)
Perion

Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in
news:10tagpvftvc5q8b@corp.supernews.com: 

> keith wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
>>>>
>>>>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority
>>>>>>>of "third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on
>>>>>>>this f'n
>>>>>>
>>>>>>planet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In your dreams.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last
>>>>>figures I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
>>>>
>>>>And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the
>>>>20th place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure
>>>>what Perion meant by 'generosity'.
>>>
>>>If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
>>>industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
>>>aid to the tsunami victims.
>> 
>> Cite please!  FWIG, the US is up to $200M,
> 
> And you ask ME for a cite?  The US has promised $35M.
> 
>> and I'm quite sure the
>> transportation costs (paid by guess who) will be far more than what any
>> pissant Europisson country could manage. ...can't even handle your own
>> back yard, fer chrissakes!
> 
> The US is increasingly becoming a third world nation while
> Europe has better healthcare and lower poverty rates and you
> accuse Europe of not being able to take care of its own
> backyard?

Europe has unemployment rates near the 10% mark and European healthcare is 
frequently on the verge of bankruptcy and highly regulated. For example, a 
recent heat wave in France killed thousands because it is illegal to have 
air conditioning in French hospitals.

Europe is becoming increasingly irrelevent.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Perion <RazroRog@hotmail.com>
wrote (in <MqudnfmEv6A1zkjcRVn-1A@comcast.com>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:
>[Out 
>of curiosity, I wonder how many $ billion other nations have poured into 
>the US's development?] 

Since 1492? 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

> Once we find a way of killing the people without destroying the assets,
> America will become the New Rome. Resistance is futile. The Romans did
> not give a rat's ass about the rights of the people they conquered, why
> should we?
>
> Bob Kolker
>
=================================

Indeed, why should you?

Your comments are amongst the few most honest to appear on these walls.
Thank you very much for making your position clear.
----
Reg.

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message 
news:gX5tjhDleV1BFwCD@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
>I read in sci.electronics.design that Perion <RazroRog@hotmail.com>
> wrote (in <MqudnfmEv6A1zkjcRVn-1A@comcast.com>) about '[OT] I hate 
> being
> American', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:
>>[Out
>>of curiosity, I wonder how many $ billion other nations have poured 
>>into
>>the US's development?]
>
> Since 1492?

Cotton pickin'?
Androcles



> -- 
> Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
> The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
> The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
> http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.12.31.03.48.16.986896@att.bizzzz...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>
> > Frank Bemelman wrote:
> >> "Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
> >>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
> >>>>"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
> >>>>
> >>>>[snip]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast
majority of
> >>>>>"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on
this
> >>>>> f'n
> >>>>planet.
> >>>>
> >>>>In your dreams.
> >>>
> >>>Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last
figures
> >>>I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
> >>
> >> And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to
the 20th
> >> place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure
what Perion
> >> meant by 'generosity'.
> >
> > If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
> > industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
> > aid to the tsunami victims.
>
> Cite please!  FWIG, the US is up to $200M,

According to the Times of this morning, the US has promised 18 M GBP
Compare this with Spain at 35 M GBP, then go anf hide your head in
shame.
And tell that prat who mentioned something under $500,000 from France
that he should up his figure by 2 orders of magnitude.  The French
contribution at present stands at 31 M GBP

Of course you americans will pay up in the end, but only after you
have been properly named and shamed by the world.

> and I'm quite sure the
> transportation costs (paid by guess who) will be far more than what
any
> pissant Europisson country could manage. ...can't even handle your
own
> back yard, fer chrissakes!

According to The Times of this morning, the planes are arriving faster
than the airports can handle them.  There is no mention of a
preponderance of americamn planes amongst them.

Franz

"Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10t8vamnad16j2d@corp.supernews.com...
> "Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:cr1tib$nbd$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> >
> > "Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > news:10t8dnjav3nvub7@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > For one thing, our military spending is considerably
> > > higher, because unlike many smaller countries we actually have
to
> > worry
> > > about being defensible...
> >
> > It is a great pity that Iraq did not worry more about being
defensible
> > before you barged in there.
>
> While people over here (the US) are generally upset over how the
thing was
> handled (both before and after), complaints about it having been
done at all
> don't affect us a great deal, considering that it's widely agreed
upon that
> it needed to be done.

If if needed to be done, it should be done by the Iraqis.
I notice you are not doing anything about Zimbabwe.  Could it be that
there is not much oil there?

>  It didn't need to be done as badly as it was, and the
> timing wasn't great... but unlike Iran and other neighbors of his
that we
> don't get along well with, he was the only one who had repeatedly
used ANY
> weapon at his disposal to kill ANYONE who stood in his way (just ask
Iran,
> or your average Kurd).

You seem to have forgotten the extent to which you supported Iraq when
it was fighting Iran.
And indeed how you supported the Taleban when the Russians were trying
to get rid of them
Was Osama not once one of your blue eyed boys?
You are the most opportunistivc gang of mafiosi on earth.

>  We knew Iran had similar weapons, but have never
> been known to use them (plus they've always been a bit more honest,
if
> blunt, than Hussein - and they do change leadership periodically).

Why then did you support Iraq against Iran?

> How many unstoppable human disasters have occured in Europe (where
racial
> holocaust seems to be a somewhat common occurance) because everyone
was
> afraid to get their hands a little dirty until it was too late?
Once people
> begin to die by the millions (as they often do), it's a little late
to start
> worrying about putting a stop to what never should have been allowed
to
> start.

Have you ever head of the organisation called the United Nations?

> And Iraq DID worry about being defensible.  What did you think most
of that
> UN Food program was paying for?  Food?  Another reason the US isn't
quite so
> big on shelling out cash to other countries - much better to give
them the
> goods we intended to give them,

Of course.  That way you retain the profit on them.

> and not worry about what they're doing with
> the cash.  If they're starving, give them food.  If they're
freezing, give
> them heaters and blankets and clothing.

What the hell do you think the present disaster aid is about?

> If someone's harassing them, and
> their enemies aren't willing to talk, give them bullets - at
extremely high
> speed.  If you look at the actual aid given out by the US, we supply
more
> FOOD for the rest of the world than even the most prosperous
agricultural
> nations, even after you count cash value.
>
> History, both recent and otherwise, demonstrates that talk is a
great way to
> resolve most disputes... but when it fails, it all means nothing if
the
> words weren't backed up by a willingness to act on them.  That
applies to
> aid as well as anything else.

Get movinng and gather some aid for the disaster area.  This is not
the time for talking bullshit.  The aid is neded NOW, TODAY, not some
time in the future.

Franz

"John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:cr20ha$1ke8$1@news.iquest.net...

[snip]

> It is very probable that the GOVERNMENTAL measures of aid are quite
a bit
> lower than the measures of private aid for the US.

In that case you should kick out that self-serving lot and opt for a
more intelligent government next
time round

[snip]

Franz

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:57:41 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

> Of course you americans will pay up in the end, but only after you
> have been properly named and shamed by the world.

No, you have the ordering wrong. We'll pay up front, for the duration of
the crisis, and on after everyone else has forgotten about it. Then you
eurotrash cunts will still find a way to blame it on us in the end.


Bob

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message 
news:cr2so7$1v3$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> To anybody who cares to listen.
>
> Your intelligence, for years, has been and still is being insulted!
>
> Non-existent weapons of mass destruction and all the other stated reasons
> for the war, were and still are, just a smoke screen to distract and cover
> up the real reason...

And the space aliens from Roswell are behind it all.  Right?

Reg Edwards wrote:

> The remaining 5 billion of the World's population, not having the democratic
> right to vote in the matter, can only hope that common sense will prevail
> and Armageddon already begun, will be ultimately averted.
> 
> 
> But I fear such warnings will remain unheeded.  The human race, even with
> its gigobit microprocessors, has insufficient intelligence to cope with its
> self-induced problems.  Just look at the chaotic state Windows is in!

Brace yourself laddy. The Imperium Americanum is on its way. Just as 
Hannibal sped up the process by which the Roman Republic became an 
Imperium, the attacks upon the U.S. by Islamofascist terrorists will 
provke the U.S. into asserting its massive power and become the New 
Rome. That is good news and bad news. The good news is the Pax Americana 
that will stabilize the world for a time. The bad news is that anyone 
who opposes it will be crushed and ground into the mud.

Bob Kolker

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> robert j. kolker wrote:
> 
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Or you could set up ovens and gas chambers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pulling our people out and nuking the place would do the trick.
>>
>> As the fireballs bloom and the flesh vaporizes my statement to the Imams
>> and Mullahs is : Terrorize this!
> 
> 
> Fight terrorism with bigger terrorism?

Fucking A! From your lips to G-D's Ear.

The idea is not merely to sink to the level of one's enemies. The idea 
is to go lower still so you can attack them from below.

Bob Kolker

  	

Memorable Quotes from
Conan the Barbarian (1982)

Mongol General: We have won again. That is good! But what is best in life?
Mongol Soldier: The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist, wind 
in your hair!
Mongol General: Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear 
the lamentation of their women!
Mongol General: That is good.

Bob Stephens wrote:

> 
> No, you have the ordering wrong. We'll pay up front, for the duration of
> the crisis, and on after everyone else has forgotten about it. Then you
> eurotrash cunts will still find a way to blame it on us in the end.

That is about right. The Eurotrash have become the political eunichs of 
the twentieth and twenty-first century. They have a grudge on anyone or 
any nation that can still get it up.

Europe shot its wad in the Great War.

Bob Kolker

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 06:48:40 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

>Microsoft is just another of the undemocratic corporations which has a
>budget greater than many whole countries.  It is they who are really ruling
>this Earth!

If Microsoft is running the show, it would certainly account for a
lot.
-- 

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:59:28 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>>
>>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>>something?
>
>---
>Something like a dumpster, maybe?

A dumpster would certainly be a better start in life than England,
nowadays.

-- 

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

Gactimus wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:


>>The US is increasingly becoming a third world nation while
>>Europe has better healthcare and lower poverty rates and you
>>accuse Europe of not being able to take care of its own
>>backyard?
> 
> Europe has unemployment rates near the 10% mark

The official _poverty_ rate in the US is one-in-eight and that
doesn't take into account the costs of fuel and housing which
are going up much faster than food costs.  The real rate is
probably twice that.  According to the CIA World Factbook, the
poverty rate in France is only 6.5% and it isn't much
consolation to being employed if you're still living in poverty.

> and European healthcare is 
> frequently on the verge of bankruptcy and highly regulated.

The US spends considerably more per capita than any other
country on earth and still doesn't cover 45 million people.
If you don't think healthcare is regulated by HMOs then you
aren't paying attention.

> For example, a 
> recent heat wave in France killed thousands because it is illegal to have 
> air conditioning in French hospitals.

Yet France still has a life expectancy two years longer than the
US and an infant mortality rate less than two-thirds that of the
US.

> Europe is becoming increasingly irrelevent.

You got an objective measure of irrelevancy?  Europe's per
capita income per hour worked is also higher than in the US.
I suppose you mean that Americans are dying, and will be
dying, in wars for oil at a much higher rate than Europeans.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Reg Edwards wrote:
> 
>> The remaining 5 billion of the World's population, not having the 
>> democratic
>> right to vote in the matter, can only hope that common sense will prevail
>> and Armageddon already begun, will be ultimately averted.
>>
>>
>> But I fear such warnings will remain unheeded.  The human race, even with
>> its gigobit microprocessors, has insufficient intelligence to cope 
>> with its
>> self-induced problems.  Just look at the chaotic state Windows is in!
> 
> Brace yourself laddy. The Imperium Americanum is on its way.

Ah, that's what the Germans said sixty five years ago about
their Third Reich.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
> Ah, that's what the Germans said sixty five years ago about
> their Third Reich.

Ah, but we have not scooped our brains out with a runciple spoon like 
the Nazis did. If the Nazi had been kinder to the Jews, they would have 
had the a-bomb first and the world would be saying "Seig Heil". America 
loves immigrants and cultural diversity, which is one of the reasons we 
have not gone to squash rot.

Bob Kolker

In sci.physics Franz Heymann <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:

> According to the Times of this morning, the US has promised 18 M GBP
> Compare this with Spain at 35 M GBP, then go anf hide your head in
> shame.
> And tell that prat who mentioned something under $500,000 from France
> that he should up his figure by 2 orders of magnitude.  The French
> contribution at present stands at 31 M GBP

> Of course you americans will pay up in the end, but only after you
> have been properly named and shamed by the world.

> > and I'm quite sure the
> > transportation costs (paid by guess who) will be far more than what
> any
> > pissant Europisson country could manage. ...can't even handle your
> own
> > back yard, fer chrissakes!

> According to The Times of this morning, the planes are arriving faster
> than the airports can handle them.  There is no mention of a
> preponderance of americamn planes amongst them.

> Franz

Sounds like piss poor planning to me.

What good is undeliverable aid?

Should the US add to the aid that is undeliverable or take the time to
see that the aid can actually be delivered to those that need it?

Seems that logistics is not in your skill set.

-- 
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:2Y2dnd2is6r44kncRVn-ig@rcn.net...
> "Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
> news:cr1u07$he3$1@hercules.btinternet.com:
>
> > "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
> > news:41d453f9$0$6205$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >
> >> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> schreef in bericht
> >> news:stCdnSNiyuMl00ncRVn-gA@rcn.net...
> >>
> >>> "Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in
> >>> news:41d43f7b$0$6217$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl:
> >>>
> >>>> "John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> schreef in bericht
> >>>> news:nm98t0l324e1c9a8355ut9tmrrjbg032e2@4ax.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Also, Bush has been famous for budgeting money and then refusing
> >>>>>> to spend it,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So he's bad for spending and bad for not spending. I get it.
> >>>>
> >>>> He's bad because he is a war criminal.
> >>>
> >>> I can see how a terrorist sympathizer like yourself could come to
> >>> that conclusion.
> >>
> >> Drop dead, you miserable piece of shit.
> >
> > I second that.  He is precisely the kind of jingoistic prat who gives
> > the US such a bad name in international circles at all levels.
>
> I see, but calling President Bush a war criminal is somehow "intelligent
> discussion".

It is much more intelligent than calling somebody a terrorist sympathizer.

Calling Bush a "war criminal" refers to the actions of the American
military, of which Bush is the commander in chief.  While he did support
that claim with facts, it is legitimate (and contestable) claim.

Calling somebody a "terrorist sympathizer" because they believe the above or
disagree with Bush is weak.  Of course, the "drop dead" response wasn't
really necessary.  More fitting would be something along the likes of "Oh,
crap.  Somebody get the mop.  Looks like Gactimus has spilled stupidity all
over the forum."

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
>>
>> Ah, that's what the Germans said sixty five years ago about
>> their Third Reich.
> 
> 
> Ah, but we have not scooped our brains out with a runciple spoon like
> the Nazis did. If the Nazi had been kinder to the Jews, they would have
> had the a-bomb first and the world would be saying "Seig Heil". America
> loves immigrants and cultural diversity, which is one of the reasons we
> have not gone to squash rot.

That's why the Amerikans are picking on the Moslems this time?
Or all the complaints about "those damn immigrants"?
Republicans don't like immigrants, except when they need cheap
labor.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

John Woodgate wrote:

> I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
> wrote (in <2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate being
> American', on Thu, 30 Dec 2004:

>> And we know why there are so many "Irish-Americans", don't we; look 
>>how well your government treated the Irish historically, and treats the 
>>few that remain.

> That last bit is way off.

   I take it you have no issues with the remainder of my rant?

> Most of Ireland is a separate country, of
> course, that has done very well indeed out of EU membership.

   Why not all of it?

> The
> remaining problems with the Six Counties are now very clearly down to
> the political representatives of the majority of the inhabitants, not
> the British government. This is democracy at not-work.

   Strikes me that's a problem for the Irish to solve. But 
they won't solve it soon because of two other problems; they 
have long memories, and some terrible things to remember.

> The Reverend Ian Paisley has the same attitude as Yasser Arafat, and the
> only solution may be the passage of time.

   If it isn't solved ballistically first. But that would 
just be another terrible (in some people's minds) thing to 
remember.

   Memories can be such good and bad things. Oh, well.

   Mark L. Fergerson

> That's why the Amerikans are picking on the Moslems this time?
> Or all the complaints about "those damn immigrants"?
> Republicans don't like immigrants, except when they need cheap
> labor.

Who is picking on whom. It was Islamofascist terrorsts who came into our 
house on 9/11 to do evil deeds. We are simply defending ourselves 
against them.

And the thousands of Asians who came from Thailand, Cambodia and Viet 
Nam were not imported as cheap labor. Many of them are quite prosperous 
now and proving again that the U.S. is a land of opportunity to those 
who are energetic and smart enough to seize opportunity.

Bob Kolker

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
wrote (in <cojBd.39262$Cl3.4565@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:

I wrote:

>> The Reverend Ian Paisley has the same attitude as Yasser Arafat, and the
>> only solution may be the passage of time.
>
>  If it isn't solved ballistically first. But that would just be another 
>terrible (in some people's minds) thing to remember.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'ballistically'. The internal armed
conflict had been going on for around 40 years with no resolution, and
people are now sick of it. It's over for around 20 years, minimum, if
not for ever. If you mean external ballistic intervention, which
aggressor do you have in mind? 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

John Woodgate wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by 'ballistically'. The internal armed
> conflict had been going on for around 40 years with no resolution, and
> people are now sick of it. It's over for around 20 years, minimum, if
> not for ever. If you mean external ballistic intervention, which
> aggressor do you have in mind? 

It will never end. The Irish are far too fond of fighting and drinking.

Bob Kolker

In article <10tbdpgjp9rcla0@corp.supernews.com>,
	Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> writes:
> robert j. kolker wrote:
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> Ah, that's what the Germans said sixty five years ago about
>>> their Third Reich.
>> 
>> 
>> Ah, but we have not scooped our brains out with a runciple spoon like
>> the Nazis did. If the Nazi had been kinder to the Jews, they would have
>> had the a-bomb first and the world would be saying "Seig Heil". America
>> loves immigrants and cultural diversity, which is one of the reasons we
>> have not gone to squash rot.
> 
> That's why the Amerikans are picking on the Moslems this time?
> Or all the complaints about "those damn immigrants"?
> Republicans don't like immigrants, except when they need cheap
> labor.
> 
Actually, the strongest anti-immigrant sentiment seem to come
from the Demoncrats (typically labor union or semi-skilled populace)
constituency.  In reality, you'll find both Demoncrats and GOPers
to advocate better control of immigration.

My own opinion (not involved with GOPers or Demons) is that immigration
should be better controlled, effectively complying with the law.  If
we need more/less immigrants, then the quotas should be adjusted.

I prefer that the law and reality both be consistent.   Either the
law needs to change, or the law needs to be better (not in a cruel
fashion) enforced.  There is a temptation to be cruel, where the
immigrants first action in their new home is to violate the law and
show disrespect against the very system that should defend their
freedom.  This tends to effectively weaken the 'freedom' for the
new (illegal) immigrant.  That illegal immigrant will always have
a potential arrest looming in the future, and that is a seriously
damaging form of emotional cruelty.  This might actually be more
cruel than providing a very aggressive border patrol and immediate
repatriation back to the middle of Mexico (FAR FAR from the US border,
mostly, this is a problem with immigration from Mexico, no matter the
originating country.)

There is a serious kind of dishonesty, where the business people
are providing jobs to people who have NO RIGHT to work in the US.
There are also alot of factors, where all of the immigration problems
cannot be solved here, especially when there is such extreme divisiveness
and knee jerk (the term jerk has multiple appropriate meanings) responses
that show inappropriate hatred, thereby proving a serious emotional
problem and emotional immaturity in those who carry the obviously
inappropriate hate around in their psyche.

John

robert j. kolker wrote:


>> That's why the Amerikans are picking on the Moslems this time?
>> Or all the complaints about "those damn immigrants"?
>> Republicans don't like immigrants, except when they need cheap
>> labor.
> 
> Who is picking on whom. It was Islamofascist terrorsts who came into our
> house on 9/11 to do evil deeds. We are simply defending ourselves
> against them.

For the 6347th time, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

> And the thousands of Asians who came from Thailand, Cambodia and Viet
> Nam were not imported as cheap labor. Many of them are quite prosperous
> now and proving again that the U.S. is a land of opportunity to those
> who are energetic and smart enough to seize opportunity.

The griping is about Mexifornia, not about the southeast Asians
any longer.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
> For the 6347th time, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

I was talking about al Quedah.

Bob Kolker

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33la9rF3urjj3U1@individual.net...
>
>
> Reg Edwards wrote:
>
> > The remaining 5 billion of the World's population, not having the
democratic
> > right to vote in the matter, can only hope that common sense will
prevail
> > and Armageddon already begun, will be ultimately averted.
> >
> >
> > But I fear such warnings will remain unheeded.  The human race, even
with
> > its gigobit microprocessors, has insufficient intelligence to cope with
its
> > self-induced problems.  Just look at the chaotic state Windows is in!
>
> Brace yourself laddy. The Imperium Americanum is on its way. Just as
> Hannibal sped up the process by which the Roman Republic became an
> Imperium, the attacks upon the U.S. by Islamofascist terrorists will
> provke the U.S. into asserting its massive power and become the New
> Rome. That is good news and bad news. The good news is the Pax Americana
> that will stabilize the world for a time. The bad news is that anyone
> who opposes it will be crushed and ground into the mud.
>
> Bob Kolker

Explain how christian fundamentalist hate-mongers are any better than
islamic fundamentalist ditto. Both seem completely and utterly deranged to
me.
As for your dreams of empire... well, you'd have to turn America into a
totalitarian state (how about a nice theocracy?) pretty quick - within the
next 4 years, preferably - and abolish (or turn into even more of a farce)
the electoral process. If America remains a democracy, the people will tire
of war and elect someone who promises to end it. That's the end of global
empire aspirations right there, and back to covertly influencing other
nations in ways favourable to America (which will eventually backfire, as
usual).

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33lidrF40j0fhU1@individual.net...
>
>
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> >
> > Ah, that's what the Germans said sixty five years ago about
> > their Third Reich.
>
> Ah, but we have not scooped our brains out with a runciple spoon like
> the Nazis did.

Not all of you, but you, your president, and your kindred spirit Daniel
Joseph Min evidently have, as have a staggering number of bible-thumping,
snake-oil selling, shotgun-toting, racoon-shooting, pickuptruck-driving,
inbred rednecks.

> If the Nazi had been kinder to the Jews, they would have
> had the a-bomb first and the world would be saying "Seig Heil".

I have a feeling you would have been excellent at that.

> America
> loves immigrants and cultural diversity, which is one of the reasons we
> have not gone to squash rot.

America used to love those things, but signs of right-wing nationalism are
growing steadily. The president is a religious nutcase with the IQ and
language skills of an 8 year old. His cronies are profiteers and corrupt to
the very core, but with minds that work somewhat better, so they can whisper
in little Dubya's ear what to do next.

You should supplement your Fox News with something else. Propaganda machines
are not reliable sources of information.

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33mmiiF4099avU1@individual.net...
>
>
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> >
> > For the 6347th time, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
>
> I was talking about al Quedah.
>
> Bob Kolker

Al-Qaeda had no demonstrable ties to Iraq under Saddam. Saddam was a
Hitler/Stalin type ruler, and would never risk supporting terrorist groups
for fear that they might turn on him. Dictators like him are exceedingly
paranoid. Al-Qaeda is there NOW, but that's because it's the easiest place
to cause trouble and hit America.

Laura wrote:

> me.
> As for your dreams of empire... 

Make that a nightmare of empire. I prefer the simple virtues of the 
Republic. I am simply predicting what will happen. Please do not shoot 
the messenger.

If we were not targetted by the Islamofascists and the Jihadis this 
would not happen.

Bob Kolker

Laura wrote:

> America used to love those things, but signs of right-wing nationalism are
> growing steadily. The president is a religious nutcase with the IQ and
> language skills of an 8 year old. His cronies are profiteers and corrupt to
> the very core, but with minds that work somewhat better, so they can whisper
> in little Dubya's ear what to do next.

Bullshit. THe administration has made it easy for illegals from Mexico 
to stay and it is the Democrats who are shitting in their britches.

Bob Kolker

Laura wrote:

>> 
> Al-Qaeda had no demonstrable ties to Iraq under Saddam. Saddam was a
> Hitler/Stalin type ruler, and would never risk supporting terrorist groups
> for fear that they might turn on him. Dictators like him are exceedingly
> paranoid. Al-Qaeda is there NOW, but that's because it's the easiest place
> to cause trouble and hit America.

The perceived threat from Saddam was that he would share WMD technology 
with the Jihadis or threaten to do so. I think the war with Iraq was a 
mistake, myself. We should have gone after Iran and North Korea first.

The brilliant Donald Rumsfeld, the biggest disaster since Robert 
Macnamarra figured we would just bitch-slap the Baathists and the rest 
of the country would fall into line. Wrongo!

It is impossible to conquer a Moslem country. You have to destroy it. 
Instead of sending troops we should have nuked the place so it would 
glow blue at night.

Bob Kolker

John Woodgate wrote:
> I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
> wrote (in <cojBd.39262$Cl3.4565@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate being
> American', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:
> 
> I wrote:

>>>The Reverend Ian Paisley has the same attitude as Yasser Arafat, and the
>>>only solution may be the passage of time.
>>
>> If it isn't solved ballistically first. But that would just be another 
>>terrible (in some people's minds) thing to remember.

> I'm not sure what you mean by 'ballistically'. The internal armed
> conflict had been going on for around 40 years with no resolution, and
> people are now sick of it. It's over for around 20 years, minimum, if
> not for ever. If you mean external ballistic intervention, which
> aggressor do you have in mind? 

   And it's said that British humor is too "dry" for 
Americans to get.

   I just meant that somebody might shoot him.

   Mark L. Fergerson

In article <zHzBd.41764$Cl3.32635@fed1read03>,
Mark Fergerson  <nunya@biz.ness> wrote:
>   And it's said that British humor is too "dry" for 
>Americans to get.
>
>   I just meant that somebody might shoot him.

It could also mean someone throwing him off a tall building. :-)

Francis

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
wrote (in <zHzBd.41764$Cl3.32635@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Sat, 1 Jan 2005:
>John Woodgate wrote:
>> I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness>
>> wrote (in <cojBd.39262$Cl3.4565@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate being
>> American', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:
>> 
>> I wrote:
>
>>>>The Reverend Ian Paisley has the same attitude as Yasser Arafat, and the
>>>>only solution may be the passage of time.
>>>
>>> If it isn't solved ballistically first. But that would just be another 
>>>terrible (in some people's minds) thing to remember.
>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by 'ballistically'. The internal armed
>> conflict had been going on for around 40 years with no resolution, and
>> people are now sick of it. It's over for around 20 years, minimum, if
>> not for ever. If you mean external ballistic intervention, which
>> aggressor do you have in mind? 
>
>  And it's said that British humor is too "dry" for 
>Americans to get.
>
>  I just meant that somebody might shoot him.
>
No-one managed to do that so far, any more than they did Arafat. That's
why I didn't see your meaning. That 'solution' would be very bad, which
is why it hasn't happened. A dead man is a dead man, but an assassinated
one is 'a martyr whose struggle will be continued for ever in his
memory'. And we know that Irish memories are very long indeed.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 08:18:30 +0100, "Laura" <laura@nospam.me> wrote:


>Explain how christian fundamentalist hate-mongers are any better than
>islamic fundamentalist ditto. Both seem completely and utterly deranged to
>me.

The Christians aren't into suicide bombing, and they let their women
drive.

>As for your dreams of empire... well, you'd have to turn America into a
>totalitarian state (how about a nice theocracy?) pretty quick - within the
>next 4 years, preferably - and abolish (or turn into even more of a farce)
>the electoral process. If America remains a democracy, the people will tire
>of war and elect someone who promises to end it. That's the end of global
>empire aspirations right there, and back to covertly influencing other
>nations in ways favourable to America (which will eventually backfire, as
>usual).
>

In 1942, the world was down to about a dozen democracies. Since just
1980, over 80 countries have transitioned to democracy. 25 years ago,
1/3 of the world's countries held free elections; today, it's 2/3.

Reconcile those numbers with "global empire" and "backfire."

John

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33mmiiF4099avU1@individual.net...
>
>
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> >
> > For the 6347th time, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
>
> I was talking about al Quedah.

Iraq had nothing to do with Al Quedah
You have now let it take root in Iraq.

Franz

John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 08:18:30 +0100, "Laura" <laura@nospam.me> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>Explain how christian fundamentalist hate-mongers are any better than
>>islamic fundamentalist ditto. Both seem completely and utterly deranged to
>>me.
> 
> The Christians aren't into suicide bombing, and they let their women
> drive.

Women aren't allowed to drive only in that good friend of the
US, Saudi Arabia.  Christian fundamentalists aren't big on
women's rights in general - reproductive freedom, for one.

>>As for your dreams of empire... well, you'd have to turn America into a
>>totalitarian state (how about a nice theocracy?) pretty quick - within the
>>next 4 years, preferably - and abolish (or turn into even more of a farce)
>>the electoral process. If America remains a democracy, the people will tire
>>of war and elect someone who promises to end it. That's the end of global
>>empire aspirations right there, and back to covertly influencing other
>>nations in ways favourable to America (which will eventually backfire, as
>>usual).
> 
> In 1942, the world was down to about a dozen democracies. Since just
> 1980, over 80 countries have transitioned to democracy. 25 years ago,
> 1/3 of the world's countries held free elections; today, it's 2/3.
> 
> Reconcile those numbers with "global empire" and "backfire."

You mean like Haiti, where the US spirited off the elected
president in the middle of the night?  Or Nicaragua, where the
US supported an army of torturers and used blackmail and
millions of dollars of advertising to convince the populace to
elect the government chosen by the US?  Or are you talking
about US complicity in the coups in Chile '73 or Iran '58?
Or the US's good friend Musharraf in Pakistan who overthrew the
elected government?

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Franz Heymann wrote:

> 
> Iraq had nothing to do with Al Quedah
> You have now let it take root in Iraq.

Don't blame me. I wanted to nuke Iran and North Korea.

Bob Kolker

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jturner@localnet.com> wrote, in part:

>If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
>industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
>aid to the tsunami victims.

I expect the United States will give plenty of aid to the victims of the
tsunami, and if their initial pledge of aid is small, it is simply that
they are more interested in actually giving what aid turns out to be
needed than making any promises in advance that might not need to be
kept.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
wrote, in part:

>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>every country and expects them to clean it up.

>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>something?

You will find that people in every country are prone to the temptation
of selfishness and self-absorption. Work to lead your fellow Americans
to the path of righteousness rather than wallowing in despair.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

On 29 Dec 2004 17:16:51 -0800, "JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote, in
part:

>My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right;
>and if wrong, to be set right.  --Carl Schurz (1829-1906)

I like the last part better than the first part by itself.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

I read in sci.electronics.design that robert j. kolker
<nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote (in <33oba4F41amfjU1@individual.net>) about
'[OT] I hate being American', on Sat, 1 Jan 2005:
>
>
>Franz Heymann wrote:
>
>> 
>> Iraq had nothing to do with Al Quedah
>> You have now let it take root in Iraq.
>
>Don't blame me. I wanted to nuke Iran and North Korea.
>
I expressed here my disgust at someone who killed sparrows. I find it
utterly impossible to express the degree of disgust I feel for someone
who proposes to kill millions of people because he disagrees with the
activities of their politicians. 

Especially since, of all people in the world, US citizens are surely now
protected against any international malevolence better than any others.

Furthermore, 'nuking' N Korea and Iran would kill a great number of
people in neighbouring countries. Is that just unfortunate 'collateral'? 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

John Woodgate wrote:

> 
> Furthermore, 'nuking' N Korea and Iran would kill a great number of
> people in neighbouring countries. Is that just unfortunate 'collateral'? 

Collateral damage is one of the infellicities of modern warfare. Your 
contryman Arthur "Bomber" Harris was a master of collateral damage. His 
collateralism went a long way to shorten WW2. Our collateralism at 
Hiroshima and Nagasaki brought a 4 year war to a screetching halt.

What is not to like about collateralism.

It is based on the Ur-Principle that shit happens and better it happens 
to the other fellow than to me.

Bob Kolker

I read in sci.electronics.design that robert j. kolker
<nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote (in <33of9rF40td8rU1@individual.net>) about
'[OT] I hate being American', on Sat, 1 Jan 2005:

>What is not to like about collateralism.

Try being a collateralee.

You think it's OK to kill civilians in South Korea and China when you
nuke North Korea?

What do you think China might do? Remember, China can put five times as
many soldiers in the field as US can.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

John Woodgate wrote:
> You think it's OK to kill civilians in South Korea and China when you
> nuke North Korea?

If we use small tac nukes on the No. Koreans no harm should come to 
China. But we will have to check in with the Chinese before we do it. 
They may not take it kindly. On the other hand if we could talk the 
Chinese into doing the deed no one will be the worse for wear except the 
North Koreans who are dying of starvation anyway. Nuking them will put 
them out of their misery.

Bob Kolker

robert j. kolker wrote:
> 
> 
> Bob Stephens wrote:
> 
>>
>> No, you have the ordering wrong. We'll pay up front, for the duration of
>> the crisis, and on after everyone else has forgotten about it. Then you
>> eurotrash cunts will still find a way to blame it on us in the end.
> 
> 
> That is about right. The Eurotrash have become the political eunichs of 
> the twentieth and twenty-first century. They have a grudge on anyone or 
> any nation that can still get it up.
> 
> Europe shot its wad in the Great War.

Interesting and revealing emphasis you put on power, and none on how 
that power is used. I suppose metaphorical rape is ok for you then - as 
long some country could 'get it up', eh?

In article <CSY1y1EjJx1BFwnx@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate  <noone@yuk.yuk> wrote:
[.. Nukes for N. Korea ..]
>What do you think China might do? Remember, China can put five times as
>many soldiers in the field as US can.

They may not have to do that.  They could Fed-X a Nuke to Washington or 
just arrange a few surprises mixed in with the next load toys going to 
Walmart.  

Their Long March missile can go to orbit so it would serve as an ICBM.  
They may have a few ready to go for that purpose.

N. Kerea may also have a bomb or two and a way to deliver them.  Attacking 
4th rate powers is no longer safe, so the 5th rate ones had better 
watch out when someone wants to act macho.

-- 
--
kensmith@rahul.net   forging knowledge

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33nhemF42ms6jU5@individual.net...

[snip]

> The perceived threat from Saddam was that he would share WMD
technology
> with the Jihadis or threaten to do so.

But we all know about those "perceived threats".  Why do you risk
being ridicules by raising the issue now?

[snip]

Franz

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33nh9tF42ms6jU4@individual.net...
>
>
> Laura wrote:
>
> > America used to love those things, but signs of right-wing
nationalism are
> > growing steadily. The president is a religious nutcase with the IQ
and
> > language skills of an 8 year old. His cronies are profiteers and
corrupt to
> > the very core, but with minds that work somewhat better, so they
can whisper
> > in little Dubya's ear what to do next.
>
> Bullshit. THe administration has made it easy for illegals from
Mexico
> to stay and it is the Democrats who are shitting in their britches.

Try addressing Laura's point instead of bullshitting

Franz

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:Zuoz9hCh3s1BFw2v@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
> I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson
<nunya@biz.ness>
> wrote (in <zHzBd.41764$Cl3.32635@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate
being
> American', on Sat, 1 Jan 2005:
> >John Woodgate wrote:
> >> I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson
<nunya@biz.ness>
> >> wrote (in <cojBd.39262$Cl3.4565@fed1read03>) about '[OT] I hate
being
> >> American', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:
> >>
> >> I wrote:
> >
> >>>>The Reverend Ian Paisley has the same attitude as Yasser Arafat,
and the
> >>>>only solution may be the passage of time.
> >>>
> >>> If it isn't solved ballistically first. But that would just be
another
> >>>terrible (in some people's minds) thing to remember.
> >
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by 'ballistically'. The internal armed
> >> conflict had been going on for around 40 years with no
resolution, and
> >> people are now sick of it. It's over for around 20 years,
minimum, if
> >> not for ever. If you mean external ballistic intervention, which
> >> aggressor do you have in mind?
> >
> >  And it's said that British humor is too "dry" for
> >Americans to get.
> >
> >  I just meant that somebody might shoot him.
> >
> No-one managed to do that so far, any more than they did Arafat.
That's
> why I didn't see your meaning. That 'solution' would be very bad,
which
> is why it hasn't happened. A dead man is a dead man, but an
assassinated
> one is 'a martyr whose struggle will be continued for ever in his
> memory'. And we know that Irish memories are very long indeed.

Never mind, all that is required is a little patience until he meets
his maker naturally.  It can't be long now.  And if it takes too long,
he will become so senile that even his own ilk will disown him.

Franz

Alex Hunsley wrote:

> 
> Interesting and revealing emphasis you put on power, and none on how 
> that power is used. I suppose metaphorical rape is ok for you then - as 
> long some country could 'get it up', eh?

It is the way of the world. Rome ruled that way for seven hundred years. 
I doubt that we will last that long. When anyone gave the Romans grief, 
Ceasar sent the legions to stomp them into mush. It worked just fine. 
The Romans made an offer no sane person or group could ignore. Play 
ball, trade with us, make profits, have fun or oppose us and die. Which 
would you do?

Bob Kolker

Ken Smith wrote:

> 
> They may not have to do that.  They could Fed-X a Nuke to Washington or 
> just arrange a few surprises mixed in with the next load toys going to 
> Walmart.  

That trick will work exactly once. If done, we will go on the rampage.

Remember what we did to the Japs for killing 3000 American at Pearl 
Harbor. Two cities nuked off the face of the earth.

Bob Kolker

In article <33op1cF43ivp0U4@individual.net>,
robert j. kolker <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>
>Ken Smith wrote:
>
>> 
>> They may not have to do that.  They could Fed-X a Nuke to Washington or 
>> just arrange a few surprises mixed in with the next load toys going to 
>> Walmart.  
>
>That trick will work exactly once. If done, we will go on the rampage.

Yes, but who would the US attack, Finland, Libia or Mexico?


>Remember what we did to the Japs for killing 3000 American at Pearl 
>Harbor. Two cities nuked off the face of the earth.

Japan didn't have their own bombs.  In a war between the US and China, if 
China kills 280 million while the US kills 1 billion, the US loses the 
war.


-- 
--
kensmith@rahul.net   forging knowledge

I read in sci.electronics.design that robert j. kolker
<nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote (in <33oousF43ivp0U3@individual.net>) about
'[OT] I hate being American', on Sat, 1 Jan 2005:

>It is the way of the world. Rome ruled that way for seven hundred years. 

A bit of an overestimate, I think.

>I doubt that we will last that long. When anyone gave the Romans grief, 
>Ceasar sent the legions to stomp them into mush. 

If you mean Julius Caesar, he only flourished for about 30 years (74-44
BC). And his successors certainly didn't win all the battles; a notable
loser was Quintus Varus, who got his in 9 AD in an ambush by German
tribes.

>It worked just fine. 
>The Romans made an offer no sane person or group could ignore. Play 
>ball, trade with us, make profits, have fun or oppose us and die. Which 
>would you do?

That's about right. It lasted until about 450 AD. 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33nh75F42ms6jU3@individual.net...
>
>
> Laura wrote:
>
> > me.
> > As for your dreams of empire...
>
> Make that a nightmare of empire. I prefer the simple virtues of the
> Republic. I am simply predicting what will happen. Please do not shoot
> the messenger.
>
> If we were not targetted by the Islamofascists and the Jihadis this
> would not happen.
>
> Bob Kolker

Before them it was communism. America seems able to always find a suitable
thing and proclaim it the pinnacle of pure evil (evil empire, axis of evil).
Helps with that warm, fuzzy feeling of being the good guys, I suppose. Evil
is not a political term, and neither is good. Neither is God, for that
matter.

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33nh9tF42ms6jU4@individual.net...
>
>
> Laura wrote:
>
> > America used to love those things, but signs of right-wing nationalism
are
> > growing steadily. The president is a religious nutcase with the IQ and
> > language skills of an 8 year old. His cronies are profiteers and corrupt
to
> > the very core, but with minds that work somewhat better, so they can
whisper
> > in little Dubya's ear what to do next.
>
> Bullshit. THe administration has made it easy for illegals from Mexico
> to stay and it is the Democrats who are shitting in their britches.
>
> Bob Kolker

What republican home is complete without its own Rosita doing the cleaning
and cooking while Jos� does the gardening?
Mexican immigrants are also great for businesses, being a source of cheap
labor. And, best of all, they are guaranteed not to be moslem.
A country can be nationalist and still have a lower-class immigrant
population, there to serve their masters.

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:CSY1y1EjJx1BFwnx@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
> I read in sci.electronics.design that robert j. kolker
> <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote (in <33of9rF40td8rU1@individual.net>)
about
> '[OT] I hate being American', on Sat, 1 Jan 2005:
>
> >What is not to like about collateralism.
>
> Try being a collateralee.
>
> You think it's OK to kill civilians in South Korea and China when
you
> nuke North Korea?
>
> What do you think China might do? Remember, China can put five times
as
> many soldiers in the field as US can.

I doubt if China will be as stupid as doing that.  They will just go
on quietly buying up the US as they are doing now with all their
excess dollars, until they own the place.
And there is nothing that can be done about stopping that
{:-))

Franz

Franz

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33oousF43ivp0U3@individual.net...
>
>
> Alex Hunsley wrote:
>
> >
> > Interesting and revealing emphasis you put on power, and none on
how
> > that power is used. I suppose metaphorical rape is ok for you
then - as
> > long some country could 'get it up', eh?
>
> It is the way of the world. Rome ruled that way for seven hundred
years.
> I doubt that we will last that long. When anyone gave the Romans
grief,
> Ceasar sent the legions to stomp them into mush. It worked just
fine.
> The Romans made an offer no sane person or group could ignore. Play
> ball, trade with us, make profits, have fun or oppose us and die.
Which
> would you do?

The Chinese seem to have chosen the first.  If you continue to trade
with them with yout ever increasing export deficit, you will one day
wake up to find that you are owned by the Chinese without a shot being
fired

Franz

In article <33qappF401hiuU1@individual.net>,
   "robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote:

Robert!  Don't forget about your attributes.  This was the most
important post I wrote yesterday.

I wrote (which most ignored):
>> Are you counting aid through non-governmental sources?  We have a strong 
>> tradition of doing things privately rather than running all our money 
>> through our government.
>
>Read D'Touqueville -Democracy in America-. He made not that Americans 
>prefer to handle social problems and issues in a mostly private ad hoc 
>manner than through established government institutions. Prior to the 
>quasi-socialist welfare state that originated around the time of Woodrow 
>Wilson's administration (note, that was -before- FDR) redistribution of 
>resources to meet needs was almost exclusively a private matter. It was 
>done by individual contribution and the activities of church related 
>groups. Charity was a Christian "duty" and tzedaka a commandment for Jews.
>
>Government becoming the chief agent of redistribution was a late 
>development in the United States. Even so, Americans do most of their 
>charity by the private route.

And the UN is not one the list of charities.  THus, their
ridiculous dollar assessments and conclusions about the
skimpiness of the USA was pure and utter bullshit coming
from the committee members whose habit of rhetoric has to 
include dis'ing the US for not giving them all the money
in the world.  This rhetoric was the safety valve used
to not piss off the Chinese or Russians while nationalism
was evolving out of colonialism.  It was politically astute
to dis the US' stinginess.

For a European to take up this retorical habit to justify
his pro-terrorist stance is disgusting.  The UN can go
fuck itself.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

> 
> Are you counting aid through non-governmental sources?  We have a strong 
> tradition of doing things privately rather than running all our money 
> through our government.

Read D'Touqueville -Democracy in America-. He made not that Americans 
prefer to handle social problems and issues in a mostly private ad hoc 
manner than through established government institutions. Prior to the 
quasi-socialist welfare state that originated around the time of Woodrow 
Wilson's administration (note, that was -before- FDR) redistribution of 
resources to meet needs was almost exclusively a private matter. It was 
done by individual contribution and the activities of church related 
groups. Charity was a Christian "duty" and tzedaka a commandment for Jews.

Government becoming the chief agent of redistribution was a late 
development in the United States. Even so, Americans do most of their 
charity by the private route.

Bob Kolker

Franz Heymann wrote:
> I doubt if China will be as stupid as doing that.  They will just go
> on quietly buying up the US as they are doing now with all their
> excess dollars, until they own the place.
> And there is nothing that can be done about stopping that

If it gets too bad the U.S. will just expropriate Chinese holdings. It 
is not a common policy in the U.S. but it is legally possible to 
nationalize assets and freeze bank accounts in an "emergency". The 
Chinee own propery in the U.S. at the sufference of the U.S. government.

Bob Kolker

"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message 
news:41d448af$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...
>> The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
>> his statement is accurate, a large part of their
>> funding was from the US.
>
> Maybe individuals acting secretly in the US, but certainly not the US 
> government.

An organisation which is a registered charity in the
US and therefore gets tax breaks from the US government.

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
> 
> And the UN is not one the list of charities.

You bet is isn't! The U.N. has turned from an association of nations 
formed to fight the fascists to a third-world kaffeklatch. It is a 
gathering place and a watering hole for parasites from "developing" 
countries, i.e. countries still in the mire of primitivism and tyranny. 
It is based on the notion that African countries where clitorodectomies 
and cannibalism is practiced are somehow "equal" to civilized industrial 
nations.

Bob Kolker

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Franz Heymann wrote:
> 
>> I doubt if China will be as stupid as doing that.  They will just go
>> on quietly buying up the US as they are doing now with all their
>> excess dollars, until they own the place.
>> And there is nothing that can be done about stopping that
> 
> If it gets too bad the U.S. will just expropriate Chinese holdings. It
> is not a common policy in the U.S. but it is legally possible to
> nationalize assets and freeze bank accounts in an "emergency". The
> Chinee own propery in the U.S. at the sufference of the U.S. government.

So that's your fantasy?  Run up huge debts and then refuse to pay them
off?  The American standard of living will plummet even faster, as
there's nothing produced in this country any longer.  Not that things
won't be bad enough given the current vogue for misguided economic and
energy policies.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> So that's your fantasy?  Run up huge debts and then refuse to pay them
> off?  The American standard of living will plummet even faster, as
> there's nothing produced in this country any longer.  Not that things
> won't be bad enough given the current vogue for misguided economic and
> energy policies.

Our deficit as a proportion of GDP is quite manageable. We are much 
better off relatively than during the administration of Lyndon Fucking 
Johnson.

Bob Kolker

In article <cr8ukn$e1t$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
	"George Dishman" <george@briar.demon.co.uk> writes:
> 
> "mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message 
> news:41d448af$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...
>>> The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
>>> his statement is accurate, a large part of their
>>> funding was from the US.
>>
>> Maybe individuals acting secretly in the US, but certainly not the US 
>> government.
> 
> An organisation which is a registered charity in the
> US and therefore gets tax breaks from the US government.
> 
Much of the IRA funding was Catholic church related, and probably
difficult to seperated from normal church activities.  Unlike alot
of old-european countries (still dealing with Saddam and other terror
despots, esp oil-for-food), the US has 'learned alot' and has backed off
intimate involvements with many/most terror involved states.  Geesh,
old-Europe is still friends with the palestinian terrorists and the
terror state of Syria.  They are a little too friendly with Iran, but
oil has been shown to be a very strong motivator for the old-European
corrupt (worst of capitalism) behavior.

John

John S. Dyson wrote:
> 
> Much of the IRA funding was Catholic church related, and probably
> difficult to seperated from normal church activities. 

The U.S. government now classifies help to the IRA the the PIRA as 
aiding and abetting a terrorist organization. It is illegal. Before the 
U.S. government did nothing about it one way or the other. I serious 
doubt whether the Catholic Church, headquartered in Rome officially 
sanctioned or acted on behalf of the IRA. However in places like Boston, 
the boyos who went to Church in the same parish and were buggered by the 
same priests are inclined to help their co-ethnics on the auld sod. 
There is no way of really stopping that entirely. Just as Moslems in 
Detroit and Newark funnel their money through front organizations to al 
Quedah and the P.L.O., the boyos in Boston somehow get their money to 
thugs of the IRA. There is really no way of stopping it entirely.

It is NOT U.S. government policy to help the IRA.



  Unlike alot
> of old-european countries (still dealing with Saddam and other terror
> despots, esp oil-for-food), the US has 'learned alot' and has backed off
> intimate involvements with many/most terror involved states.  Geesh,
> old-Europe is still friends with the palestinian terrorists and the
> terror state of Syria.  They are a little too friendly with Iran, but
> oil has been shown to be a very strong motivator for the old-European
> corrupt (worst of capitalism) behavior.

The French especially. In 1940 they went to bed with the Nazis. Now they 
are French-kissing the Moslems.

France is best characterized by a Mickey-Mouse watch set to five minutes 
to one.

Bob Kolker

kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote in
news:cr78cm$b6l$2@blue.rahul.net: 

> In article <CSY1y1EjJx1BFwnx@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
> John Woodgate  <noone@yuk.yuk> wrote:
>
> [.. Nukes for N. Korea ..]
>
>> What do you think China might do? Remember, China can put five times as
>> many soldiers in the field as US can.
> 
> They may not have to do that.  They could Fed-X a Nuke to Washington or 
> just arrange a few surprises mixed in with the next load toys going to 
> Walmart.  
> 
> Their Long March missile can go to orbit so it would serve as an ICBM.  
> They may have a few ready to go for that purpose.

They won't if they don't want their country to become a smoking pile of
radioactive slag. 

robert j. kolker wrote:

> 
> 
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
>> So that's your fantasy?  Run up huge debts and then refuse to pay them
>> off?  The American standard of living will plummet even faster, as
>> there's nothing produced in this country any longer.  Not that things
>> won't be bad enough given the current vogue for misguided economic and
>> energy policies.
> 
> 
> Our deficit as a proportion of GDP is quite manageable. We are much
> better off relatively than during the administration of Lyndon Fucking
> Johnson.

Unless you work for a living.

--Jeff

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33qb4tF401hiuU2@individual.net...
>
>
> Franz Heymann wrote:
> > I doubt if China will be as stupid as doing that.  They will just
go
> > on quietly buying up the US as they are doing now with all their
> > excess dollars, until they own the place.
> > And there is nothing that can be done about stopping that
>
> If it gets too bad the U.S. will just expropriate Chinese holdings.

If you think such an example of gangsterism on the part of your
government would succeed, think again
> It
> is not a common policy in the U.S.

Agreed.  Your international skulduggerry is usually exercised in more
subtle ways.

> but it is legally possible to
> nationalize assets and freeze bank accounts in an "emergency". The
> Chinee own propery in the U.S. at the sufference of the U.S.
government.

You can't afford to annoy them.  You need to import from them because
they produce at much lower cost than you do.
They have you by the short and curlies.

Franz

"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
news:41d427dc@mustang.speedfactory.net...
> > Case in point: compare the US response to the SE Asian tsunami
disaster to
> > that of the nations that pitch the "Americans are a-holes" creed -
> >
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%255E1702,00.html
> > Check out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort! They
sure put
> > their money where their mouth is - namely, up their own a**. It's
a damned
> > shame Singleterry and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.
>
> In fact, amazon.com, on behalf of the Red Cross, collected US $2.6
million
> for tsunami relief in voluntary donations (apparently almost all
from
> Americans) in one day.

The Brits have been contributing privately at 1M UKP *per hour* for
nearly three days continuously now to one charitable fund only.  I
have to confess that it is now beginning to drop.  But there are other
funds as well..........
>
> That is on top of the U.S. Government's "stingy" contribution
($35M?) and
> the money coming through other U.S. charities.

That is out of date.  The US government has at last been shamed to a
sufficient extent to have brought its contribution more or less into
the same ball park as those of other nations.  But boy, did it take
some shaming!

Franz

"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
news:41d448af$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...
> > The IRA activity is some time in the past now, but
> > his statement is accurate, a large part of their
> > funding was from the US.
>
> Maybe individuals acting secretly in the US, but certainly not the
US
> government.

*You* were paying for personally by way of tax free concessions to the
donors.

Franz

Old Major wrote:

> 
> Unless you work for a living.

People are managing. The growth of the economy is steady and the rate of 
job production is rising. It is true we are not having a go-go decade 
like during the 90's but the dot.com thing was all smoke and mirrors anyway.

Bob Kolker

Old Major <oldmajor@localnet.com> writes:

> robert j. kolker wrote:
>
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>> 
>>> So that's your fantasy?  Run up huge debts and then refuse to pay them
>>> off?  The American standard of living will plummet even faster, as
>>> there's nothing produced in this country any longer.  Not that things
>>> won't be bad enough given the current vogue for misguided economic and
>>> energy policies.
>> Our deficit as a proportion of GDP is quite manageable. We are much
>> better off relatively than during the administration of Lyndon Fucking
>> Johnson.
>
> Unless you work for a living.

That would exclude the guy in <URL:http://www.pacifict.com/Story/>.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
wrote:

>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>
>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>something?

I'm proud to be an American
where at least I know I'm free.
And, I won't forget the men who died
who gave that right to me.
And I'll gladly stand up
next to you
and defend her still today.
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land...
God Bless the U.S.A.! 

:)

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 20:41:31 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
<notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:

>
>"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
>news:41d427dc@mustang.speedfactory.net...
>> > Case in point: compare the US response to the SE Asian tsunami
>disaster to
>> > that of the nations that pitch the "Americans are a-holes" creed -
>> >
>http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%255E1702,00.html
>> > Check out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort! They
>sure put
>> > their money where their mouth is - namely, up their own a**. It's
>a damned
>> > shame Singleterry and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.
>>
>> In fact, amazon.com, on behalf of the Red Cross, collected US $2.6
>million
>> for tsunami relief in voluntary donations (apparently almost all
>from
>> Americans) in one day.
>
>The Brits have been contributing privately at 1M UKP *per hour* for
>nearly three days continuously now to one charitable fund only.  I
>have to confess that it is now beginning to drop.  But there are other
>funds as well..........
>>
>> That is on top of the U.S. Government's "stingy" contribution
>($35M?) and
>> the money coming through other U.S. charities.
>
>That is out of date.  The US government has at last been shamed to a
>sufficient extent to have brought its contribution more or less into
>the same ball park as those of other nations.  But boy, did it take
>some shaming!
>
>Franz
>

That's absurd. The $35m was just for starters, when the extent of the
disaster wasn't known, and some fathead at the UN jumped the gun.
Meanwhile, Kofy Anan spent three more days skiing at Jackson Hole.

John

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Old Major wrote:
>> 
>>
>> Unless you work for a living.
> 
> People are managing.

People are borrowing heavily.

> The growth of the economy is steady and the rate of 
> job production is rising.

The average number of weeks unemployed is climbing back towards 20 and
the mean number of weeks unemployed is climbing back towards 10.  Even
three years after the "end" of the recession.

> It is true we are not having a go-go decade 
> like during the 90's but the dot.com thing was all smoke and mirrors 
> anyway.

Things have been going downhill since '68 but when Reagan cut taxes and
borrowed like crazy to get a short term boost for the economy things
have basically been accelerating in a negative direction.  Borrow and
spend, voodoo economics is the root of the problem.  Bush is Reagan on
steroids but even with an annual deficit of half a trillion dollars the
economy isn't picking up very well.  As fuel costs continue to escalate
because we're up against peak production and increasing demand from
China things are going to get increasingly worse.  The '90s were kind of
like the Roaring 20s (including the repeal of Glass-Steagall) and this
decade is what followed with allowances for what remains of the safety
net.  Bon voyage.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Jim Ward wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>>
>>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>>something?
> 
> I'm proud to be an American
> where at least I know I'm free.
> And, I won't forget the men who died
> who gave that right to me.
> And I'll gladly stand up
> next to you
> and defend her still today.
> Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land...
> God Bless the U.S.A.! 

Amerika Uber Alles!

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

robert j. kolker wrote:
> 
> 
> Alex Hunsley wrote:
> 
>>
>> Interesting and revealing emphasis you put on power, and none on how 
>> that power is used. I suppose metaphorical rape is ok for you then - 
>> as long some country could 'get it up', eh?
> 
> 
> It is the way of the world. 

I know that a lot of people in the world think that way. But I'm asking 
if metaphorical rape is ok *for you*. Do you disagree with the idea, 
personally, that might makes right and if you can get away with 
something: screw everything else and everyone else?


> Rome ruled that way for seven hundred years. 
> I doubt that we will last that long. When anyone gave the Romans grief, 
> Ceasar sent the legions to stomp them into mush. It worked just fine. 
> The Romans made an offer no sane person or group could ignore. Play 
> ball, trade with us, make profits, have fun or oppose us and die. Which 
> would you do?
> 
> Bob Kolker

I'm not sure, not being in that situation.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 07:17:03 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> keith wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> schreef:
>>>>
>>>>>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>American and Americans' generosity accounts for the vast majority of
>>>>>>>"third-world" developmental and humanitarian aid that exists on this
>>>>>>>f'n
>>>>>>
>>>>>>planet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In your dreams.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, it isn't a majority, but roughly 40% according to last figures
>>>>>I saw...still not inconsequential fraction.
>>>>
>>>>And welcome it is. If you compensate per capita, the US drops to the 20th
>>>>place on the list of countries that give aid. So I am not sure what Perion
>>>>meant by 'generosity'.
>>>
>>>If you regard it as percentage of GDP, then it's lowest of the
>>>industrialized countries.  Poor little Spain has promised more
>>>aid to the tsunami victims.
>> 
>> Cite please!  FWIG, the US is up to $200M,
> 
> And you ask ME for a cite?  The US has promised $35M.

Yes!  Look at the current numbers, pinko pissant.  It was more then $35M
when you posted it.  Nitwit!  Thet ammount of money won't even pay the gas
bills.

>> and I'm quite sure the
>> transportation costs (paid by guess who) will be far more than what any
>> pissant Europisson country could manage. ...can't even handle your own
>> back yard, fer chrissakes!
> 
> The US is increasingly becoming a third world nation while
> Europe has better healthcare and lower poverty rates and you
> accuse Europe of not being able to take care of its own
> backyard?

Sheesh! You really are a nutcase!

-- 
  Keith

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:23:56 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> robert j. kolker wrote:
> 
> 
>>> That's why the Amerikans are picking on the Moslems this time?
>>> Or all the complaints about "those damn immigrants"?
>>> Republicans don't like immigrants, except when they need cheap
>>> labor.
>> 
>> Who is picking on whom. It was Islamofascist terrorsts who came into our
>> house on 9/11 to do evil deeds. We are simply defending ourselves
>> against them.
> 
> For the 6347th time, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Perhaps not 9/11, but after terrorism was given no place on the planet,
including that oasis you call Iraq.
> 
>> And the thousands of Asians who came from Thailand, Cambodia and Viet
>> Nam were not imported as cheap labor. Many of them are quite prosperous
>> now and proving again that the U.S. is a land of opportunity to those
>> who are energetic and smart enough to seize opportunity.
> 
> The griping is about Mexifornia, not about the southeast Asians any
> longer.

What don't you understand about "illegal"?

-- 
  Keith

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:57:43 +0000, Franz Heymann wrote:

> 
> "John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
> news:cr20ha$1ke8$1@news.iquest.net...
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> It is very probable that the GOVERNMENTAL measures of aid are quite
> a bit
>> lower than the measures of private aid for the US.
> 
> In that case you should kick out that self-serving lot and opt for a
> more intelligent government next
> time round

Nope, we're going to re-elect George, just to piss you off!  ...even if we
have to change the rules.  If that doesn't work, there's always Jeb. 
Anything just to piss you euro-pigs off.  

-- 
  Keith

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 18:35:10 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Jim Ward wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>>>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>>>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>>>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>>>
>>>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>>>something?
>> 
>> I'm proud to be an American
>> where at least I know I'm free.
>> And, I won't forget the men who died
>> who gave that right to me.
>> And I'll gladly stand up
>> next to you
>> and defend her still today.
>> Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land...
>> God Bless the U.S.A.! 
> 
> Amerika Uber Alles!

You are nothing short of self-hating scum.  Be happy with yourself.

-- 
  Keith

keith wrote:
> 
> Nope, we're going to re-elect George, just to piss you off!  ...even if we
> have to change the rules.  If that doesn't work, there's always Jeb. 
> Anything just to piss you euro-pigs off.  

Forget Jeb. Vote for Ahnoldt, after they pass the Scwhartzernegger 
Amendment.

Bob Kolker

> 

keith wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:23:56 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>robert j. kolker wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>That's why the Amerikans are picking on the Moslems this time?
>>>>Or all the complaints about "those damn immigrants"?
>>>>Republicans don't like immigrants, except when they need cheap
>>>>labor.
>>>
>>>Who is picking on whom. It was Islamofascist terrorsts who came into our
>>>house on 9/11 to do evil deeds. We are simply defending ourselves
>>>against them.
>>
>>For the 6347th time, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
> 
> Perhaps not 9/11, but after terrorism was given no place on the planet,
> including that oasis you call Iraq.

Oh please.  The US supports terrorism all over the place.  The recent
coup in Haiti is a prime example.  The US spirits an elected president
off in the middle of the night and lets loose death squads on the
populace.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

keith wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 18:35:10 -0500, Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>Jim Ward wrote:
>>>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:08:41 GMT, Singleterry <singleterry@cnn.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I hate being American. Yes, it's true. I love our country, but hate it at the 
>>>>same time. It isn't because of George Bush, no, it's because of us. Us, the 
>>>>overweight, pompous, arrogant population of America that takes a crap on 
>>>>every country and expects them to clean it up.
>>>>
>>>>Why couldn't I have been born in England, or Sweden, or Germany, or Italy or 
>>>>something?
>>>
>>>I'm proud to be an American
>>>where at least I know I'm free.
>>>And, I won't forget the men who died
>>>who gave that right to me.
>>>And I'll gladly stand up
>>>next to you
>>>and defend her still today.
>>>Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land...
>>>God Bless the U.S.A.! 
>>
>>Amerika Uber Alles!
> 
> You are nothing short of self-hating scum.  Be happy with yourself.

I'm happy with myself, I'm appalled by the fascist US government.
"Vhen der Bushler says ve are ze master race..."

Freedom isn't free but you wouldn't know that by how quickly so many
Amerikans are giving theirs away.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

"John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> wrote in message
news:j90ht05dvfvbakbr2r9g000pqq3c9hrb9t@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 20:41:31 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
> <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
> >news:41d427dc@mustang.speedfactory.net...
> >> > Case in point: compare the US response to the SE Asian tsunami
> >disaster to
> >> > that of the nations that pitch the "Americans are a-holes"
creed -
> >> >
>
>http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%255E1702,00.
html
> >> > Check out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort! They
> >sure put
> >> > their money where their mouth is - namely, up their own a**.
It's
> >a damned
> >> > shame Singleterry and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.
> >>
> >> In fact, amazon.com, on behalf of the Red Cross, collected US
$2.6
> >million
> >> for tsunami relief in voluntary donations (apparently almost all
> >from
> >> Americans) in one day.
> >
> >The Brits have been contributing privately at 1M UKP *per hour* for
> >nearly three days continuously now to one charitable fund only.  I
> >have to confess that it is now beginning to drop.  But there are
other
> >funds as well..........
> >>
> >> That is on top of the U.S. Government's "stingy" contribution
> >($35M?) and
> >> the money coming through other U.S. charities.
> >
> >That is out of date.  The US government has at last been shamed to
a
> >sufficient extent to have brought its contribution more or less
into
> >the same ball park as those of other nations.  But boy, did it take
> >some shaming!
> >
> >Franz
> >
>
> That's absurd. The $35m was just for starters,

Nobody defined that as being "just for starters"
Your government only upped it after it had been shamed ny the way the
rest of the world was responding.

> when the extent of the
> disaster wasn't known, and some fathead at the UN jumped the gun.
> Meanwhile, Kofy Anan spent three more days skiing at Jackson Hole.

Your inability to spell his name speaks volumes for your lack of
entitlement to criticise him.

Franz

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Oh please.  The US supports terrorism all over the place.  The recent
> coup in Haiti is a prime example.  The US spirits an elected president
> off in the middle of the night and lets loose death squads on the
> populace.

That is not terrorism. It is blatant interference with Haiti. But the 
Haitians have not been able to get their act together since they 
overthrew the French rule two hundred years ago or thereabouts.

The Carribean is an American lake. Haiti is our dog and we can kick it 
anytime we wish.

Bob Kolker

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:33t40oF457mvqU4@individual.net: 

> Morituri-|-Max wrote:
> 
>> Mother Theresa.
>> 
>> Pope John Paul.
>> 
>> Bob Hope.
>> 
>> Christopher Reeves.
>> 
>> Rosa Parks.
> 
> Truly exceptional people, which is to say they are the exception, not 
> the usual. 

With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting of 
humans for his own benefit.

Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:

> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting of 
> humans for his own benefit.

  An observation of striking relevance to mathematics, physics,
puzzles, astronomy, electronics, and the world at large.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote
(in <3amdnVIaB5O2xkTcRVn-vw@rcn.net>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Mon, 3 Jan 2005:
>
>With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting of 
>humans for his own benefit.

What do you mean by 'harvesting'?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

Gactimus wrote:
> 
> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting of 
> humans for his own benefit.

Wrong. Embryos are not people. Zygotes are not people.

Bob Kolker

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:33t5jtF43mbbaU1@individual.net: 

> Gactimus wrote:
> 
>> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting
>> of humans for his own benefit.
> 
> Wrong. Embryos are not people. Zygotes are not people.

A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.
Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer to stages of
a human being's life cycle. 

Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:

> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.

  Absolutely! Each flake of skin that you shed is a human, wrongly
harvested by vacuum cleaners.

Gactimus wrote:

> 
> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.
> Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer to stages of
> a human being's life cycle. 

Bullshit. Are you a Catholic by any chance? Just remember your fellow 
Catholic Pope Pius 12 was a Nazi collaborator.

Bob Kolker

On 03 Jan 2005 16:21:22 +0100, Torkel Franzen wrote:

> Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
> 
>> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.
> 
>   Absolutely! Each flake of skin that you shed is a human, wrongly
> harvested by vacuum cleaners.

Anita Bryant had something similar to say regarding fellatio being akin to
cannibalism and therefore evil and abhorrent. Amazingly enough, she lost
50% of her supporters immediately ;)


Bob

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 15:58:31 GMT, the renowned Bob Stephens
<stephensyomamadigital@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 03 Jan 2005 16:21:22 +0100, Torkel Franzen wrote:
>
>> Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
>> 
>>> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.
>> 
>>   Absolutely! Each flake of skin that you shed is a human, wrongly
>> harvested by vacuum cleaners.
>
>Anita Bryant had something similar to say regarding fellatio being akin to
>cannibalism and therefore evil and abhorrent. Amazingly enough, she lost
>50% of her supporters immediately ;)
>
>Bob

Maybe she was doing it wrong. 


Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:47:54 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
<notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:

>
>"John Larkin" <john@spamless.usa> wrote in message
>news:j90ht05dvfvbakbr2r9g000pqq3c9hrb9t@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 20:41:31 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
>> <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
>> >news:41d427dc@mustang.speedfactory.net...
>> >> > Case in point: compare the US response to the SE Asian tsunami
>> >disaster to
>> >> > that of the nations that pitch the "Americans are a-holes"
>creed -
>> >> >
>>
>>http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%255E1702,00.
>html
>> >> > Check out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort! They
>> >sure put
>> >> > their money where their mouth is - namely, up their own a**.
>It's
>> >a damned
>> >> > shame Singleterry and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.
>> >>
>> >> In fact, amazon.com, on behalf of the Red Cross, collected US
>$2.6
>> >million
>> >> for tsunami relief in voluntary donations (apparently almost all
>> >from
>> >> Americans) in one day.
>> >
>> >The Brits have been contributing privately at 1M UKP *per hour* for
>> >nearly three days continuously now to one charitable fund only.  I
>> >have to confess that it is now beginning to drop.  But there are
>other
>> >funds as well..........
>> >>
>> >> That is on top of the U.S. Government's "stingy" contribution
>> >($35M?) and
>> >> the money coming through other U.S. charities.
>> >
>> >That is out of date.  The US government has at last been shamed to
>a
>> >sufficient extent to have brought its contribution more or less
>into
>> >the same ball park as those of other nations.  But boy, did it take
>> >some shaming!
>> >
>> >Franz
>> >
>>
>> That's absurd. The $35m was just for starters,
>
>Nobody defined that as being "just for starters"
>Your government only upped it after it had been shamed ny the way the
>rest of the world was responding.
>
>> when the extent of the
>> disaster wasn't known, and some fathead at the UN jumped the gun.
>> Meanwhile, Kofy Anan spent three more days skiing at Jackson Hole.
>
>Your inability to spell his name speaks volumes for your lack of
>entitlement to criticise him.
>

OK, maybe the snow was especially good.

John

"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cr3pd6$gag$3@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
> news:cr20ha$1ke8$1@news.iquest.net...
>
> [snip]
>
> > It is very probable that the GOVERNMENTAL measures of aid are quite
> a bit
> > lower than the measures of private aid for the US.
>
> In that case you should kick out that self-serving lot and opt for a
> more intelligent government next
> time round

Or maybe the other countries shouldn't have to rely on a communistic
approach of taxing the hell out of everyone in order to squeeze some charity
out of them?

Knee-jerk hyperaggressive response to a similar comment.

I think people in the US just think differently.  Ideally, the ONLY purpose
on tax dollars is to run the US - nothing else, and it should be minimal at
that (ie government is meant to be reduced the the minimum required).
Charity falls primarily into the realm of the individual - which is why we
manage to provide a massive amount of funding (almost half of global output)
and still look bad when Europeans want to take issue with us (by assuming
that because most of their funding comes through tax money, so must ours).

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:41D4B76C.8030400@nospam.com...
>
>
> vonroach wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:59:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You're not talking about the REAL America.
> >
> >
> > Freddy speaks for the neo-commies of Europe.
>
> You mean like Putin who supports and endorses Bush.

Heheh...  you're talking about a possible powderkeg, because you can bet
that Putin makes Georgie more nervous than any other leader out there.

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:33t686F42pmt9U2@individual.net: 

> Gactimus wrote:
> 
>> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically
>> complete. Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer
>> to stages of a human being's life cycle. 
> 
> Bullshit. Are you a Catholic by any chance? Just remember your fellow 
> Catholic Pope Pius 12 was a Nazi collaborator.

Are you a Democrat by any chance? Just remember your fellow Democratic 
Senator Robert Byrd was a Ku Klux Klan member.

Bob Stephens wrote:

> Anita Bryant had something similar to say regarding fellatio being akin to
> cannibalism and therefore evil and abhorrent. Amazingly enough, she lost
> 50% of her supporters immediately ;)

You might say that she blew it. Is it any wonder her husband left her?

Bob Kolker

Everett Hickey wrote:

> 
> I think people in the US just think differently.  Ideally, the ONLY purpose
> on tax dollars is to run the US - nothing else, and it should be minimal at
> that (ie government is meant to be reduced the the minimum required).
> Charity falls primarily into the realm of the individual - which is why we
> manage to provide a massive amount of funding (almost half of global output)
> and still look bad when Europeans want to take issue with us (by assuming
> that because most of their funding comes through tax money, so must ours).

Here is the irony. Everyone of those dollars of tax loot sent to help 
Indonesians (who are mostly Moslem) will almost certainly help some 
survivors throw in their lot with al Quedah or such like 
Islamoterrorists. All of which proves that No Good Deed will unpunished.

Bob Kolker

> 
> 

Gactimus wrote:

> 
> Are you a Democrat by any chance? Just remember your fellow Democratic 
> Senator Robert Byrd was a Ku Klux Klan member.

I have been a libertarian since I was old enough to vote. I voted 
Democrate once (for JFK) and Republican once (for Dubyah in the latest 
election. I have met John Fucking Kerry personally and I dislike him 
intensely).

Bob Kolker

"Bob Stephens" <stephensyomamadigital@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:j0c9qay3hbq7$.1mmi6jorn9uwn$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 03 Jan 2005 16:21:22 +0100, Torkel Franzen wrote:
>
> > Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
> >
> >> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically
complete.
> >
> >   Absolutely! Each flake of skin that you shed is a human, wrongly
> > harvested by vacuum cleaners.
>
> Anita Bryant had something similar to say regarding fellatio being akin to
> cannibalism and therefore evil and abhorrent. Amazingly enough, she lost
> 50% of her supporters immediately ;)
>
>
> Bob

Ah, but sperm is not a "genetically complete" human.  So I guess haploid
cells are fair game.

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
>> Oh please.  The US supports terrorism all over the place.  The recent
>> coup in Haiti is a prime example.  The US spirits an elected president
>> off in the middle of the night and lets loose death squads on the
>> populace.
> 
> That is not terrorism. It is blatant interference with Haiti. But the
> Haitians have not been able to get their act together since they
> overthrew the French rule two hundred years ago or thereabouts.
> 
> The Carribean is an American lake. Haiti is our dog and we can kick it
> anytime we wish.

You mean if al Qaeda sent armed groups of thugs across Amerika to kill
its political opponents that wouldn't be terrorism?  I'm glad you
cleared that up for me.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

> You mean if al Qaeda sent armed groups of thugs across Amerika to kill
> its political opponents that wouldn't be terrorism?  I'm glad you
> cleared that up for me.

No. It would be War. We should not treat al Quedah activities any other 
way than acts of War. Al Islam requires a war and a jihad against the 
dar al Harb (that is us) and the Jews. We just got a taste of War such 
as we have not had since Pearl Harbor. The reaction should be the same: 
utter destraction of our enemies. Eventually we will have to kill all or 
most Moslems to have a minute's peace.

Bob Kolker

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 08:18:30 +0100, "Laura" <laura@nospam.me> wrote:

>Explain how christian fundamentalist hate-mongers are any better than
>islamic fundamentalist ditto.

There are far, far less of them. And they are disinclined towards
kidnapping and suicide bombings.

John

robert j. kolker wrote:

> 
> 
>> You mean if al Qaeda sent armed groups of thugs across Amerika to kill
>> its political opponents that wouldn't be terrorism?  I'm glad you
>> cleared that up for me.
> 
> No. It would be War. We should not treat al Quedah activities any other
> way than acts of War. Al Islam requires a war and a jihad against the
> dar al Harb (that is us) and the Jews. We just got a taste of War such
> as we have not had since Pearl Harbor. The reaction should be the same:
> utter destraction of our enemies. Eventually we will have to kill all or
> most Moslems to have a minute's peace.

So when we oust the elected president of Haiti and allow death squads to
kill political opponents all over that country it is an act of war. 
Thanks for clearing that up.

Now stop bitching about other countries supporting terrorism.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> 
> So when we oust the elected president of Haiti and allow death squads to
> kill political opponents all over that country it is an act of war. 
> Thanks for clearing that up.

Foreign enemies first. They have no rights under our laws.

If thine enemy smite thee on thy check, rip his head off and shit down 
his neck.

Bob Kolker

I read in sci.electronics.design that Everett Hickey <everett@ev1.net>
wrote (in <10tisf1ileq563a@corp.supernews.com>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Mon, 3 Jan 2005:

>I think people in the US just think differently.  Ideally, the ONLY 
>purpose on tax dollars is to run the US - nothing else, and it should be 
>minimal at that (ie government is meant to be reduced the the minimum 
>required). Charity falls primarily into the realm of the individual - 
>which is why we manage to provide a massive amount of funding (almost 
>half of global output) and still look bad when Europeans want to take 
>issue with us (by assuming that because most of their funding comes 
>through tax money, so must ours).

The BBC just broadcast an obviously faked video about that. It showed
two Republicans and a Democrat together without a fist-fight resulting,
not even an exchange of insults. It also showed someone described as a
'President' who seemed to be in full possession of his faculties and not
a candidate for protective detention. Apparently two of these three
people, one Republican and one Democrat, are alleged to be going to co-
operate (!) to promote contributions from US citizens and corporations
to the disaster relief fund. Utterly beyond belief!

Thank goodness we have these OT threads on Usenet to explain to us what
the real state of politics in USA is today. 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:vZKOQVClMb2BFw6T@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
> I read in sci.electronics.design that Everett Hickey <everett@ev1.net>
> wrote (in <10tisf1ileq563a@corp.supernews.com>) about '[OT] I hate being
> American', on Mon, 3 Jan 2005:
>
> >I think people in the US just think differently.  Ideally, the ONLY
> >purpose on tax dollars is to run the US - nothing else, and it should be
> >minimal at that (ie government is meant to be reduced the the minimum
> >required). Charity falls primarily into the realm of the individual -
> >which is why we manage to provide a massive amount of funding (almost
> >half of global output) and still look bad when Europeans want to take
> >issue with us (by assuming that because most of their funding comes
> >through tax money, so must ours).
>
> The BBC just broadcast an obviously faked video about that. It showed
> two Republicans and a Democrat together without a fist-fight resulting,
> not even an exchange of insults. It also showed someone described as a
> 'President' who seemed to be in full possession of his faculties and not
> a candidate for protective detention. Apparently two of these three
> people, one Republican and one Democrat, are alleged to be going to co-
> operate (!) to promote contributions from US citizens and corporations
> to the disaster relief fund. Utterly beyond belief!
>
> Thank goodness we have these OT threads on Usenet to explain to us what
> the real state of politics in USA is today.

I'm not sure what that response had to do with anything I said...  I'd think
you were agreeing with me except there was a bit much sarcasm there.  :)

Dear Gactimus:

"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message 
news:3badnWIbF7HZ_0TcRVn-gg@rcn.net...
> "robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
> news:33t5jtF43mbbaU1@individual.net:
>
>> Gactimus wrote:
>>
>>> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting
>>> of humans for his own benefit.
>>
>> Wrong. Embryos are not people. Zygotes are not people.
>
> A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.
> Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer to stages of
> a human being's life cycle.

Fat cells are stem cells.  Bone marrow is mostly stem cells.  When we get 
the chance to look, we'll find out what makes them different from embryonic 
cells.  Then we can work with the patient's own cells.

Then maybe "tissue" or "unborn babies" or the emotional-tag-of-the-day can 
go straight to the trash heap.  Perhaps that will make you happier?

David A. Smith 

robert j. kolker wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
>>
>> So when we oust the elected president of Haiti and allow death squads to
>> kill political opponents all over that country it is an act of war. 
>> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Foreign enemies first. They have no rights under our laws.

What the hell are you talking about?  Haiti didn't do anything to the\
USA.  If you're not incarcerated, you probably should be.

--Jeff

-- 
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation.  War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

Singleterry wrote:
> 
> I hate being American. Yes, it's true. 

Can you legally renounce your citizenship?

I read in sci.electronics.design that Everett Hickey <everett@ev1.net>
wrote (in <10tjj4she16rb89@corp.supernews.com>) about '[OT] I hate being
American', on Mon, 3 Jan 2005:
>I'm not sure what that response had to do with anything I said...  I'd 
>think you were agreeing with me except there was a bit much sarcasm 
>there.  :) 

The point of the 'faked' video was that the two former Presidents would
encourage the US public to contribute to the disaster relief, and your
post was about such contributions traditionally being the mainstay of
the US national effort, rather than government contributions.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

In article <vcbacrq36vy.fsf@beta19.sm.ltu.se>,
   Torkel Franzen <torkel@sm.luth.se> wrote:
>Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
>
>> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting 
of 
>> humans for his own benefit.
>
>  An observation of striking relevance to mathematics, physics,
>puzzles, astronomy, electronics, and the world at large.

Yet it does demonstrate how cranks think.  Given fact x produces
conclusion y where the relationship between x and y is that
they are letters of the alphabet.

/BAH


Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

In article <3badnWIbF7HZ_0TcRVn-gg@rcn.net>,
   Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
>"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
>news:33t5jtF43mbbaU1@individual.net: 
>
>> Gactimus wrote:
>> 
>>> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting
>>> of humans for his own benefit.
>> 
>> Wrong. Embryos are not people. Zygotes are not people.
>
>A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.

The scab I scratched off yesterday is also genentically complete.
Are you suggesting that I scratched a human being off my skin?


>Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer to stages of
>a human being's life cycle. 

You forgot the last one, dead body.

/BAH


Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

> 
> The scab I scratched off yesterday is also genentically complete.
> Are you suggesting that I scratched a human being off my skin?

Its dead jm --- Leonard McCoy, Starfleet.

Bob Kolker

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:Z-SdnavKt4RjNUfcRVn-qw@rcn.net...
> In article <3badnWIbF7HZ_0TcRVn-gg@rcn.net>,
>    Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
> >"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
> >news:33t5jtF43mbbaU1@individual.net:
> >
> >> Gactimus wrote:
> >>
> >>> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the harvesting
> >>> of humans for his own benefit.
> >>
> >> Wrong. Embryos are not people. Zygotes are not people.
> >
> >A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete.
>
> The scab I scratched off yesterday is also genentically complete.
> Are you suggesting that I scratched a human being off my skin?
>
>
> >Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer to stages of
> >a human being's life cycle.
>
> You forgot the last one, dead body.

I thought of mentioning that, until I decided that a corpse represents
what's left after the life cycle is over, not the end stage of the life
cycle itself.  I guess the end of the "life cycle" would be cellular death.
After that, it's just meat and a resource for something else's life cycle.

In article <10tjmt3pclr3g3e@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeffrey Turner  <jturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>> Foreign enemies first. They have no rights under our laws.
>
>What the hell are you talking about?  Haiti didn't do anything to the\
>USA.  If you're not incarcerated, you probably should be.

Sounds like he's been watching too much MTV International Deathmatch.

Francis

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:23:13 -0500, robert j. kolker wrote:

> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Or you could set up ovens and gas chambers.
> 
> Pulling our people out and nuking the place would do the trick.
> 
> As the fireballs bloom and the flesh vaporizes my statement to the Imams 
> and Mullahs is : Terrorize this!
> 

Since when Imams and Mullahs have been behind this. God
forbid you haven't seen that day yet. 

So you grew old living your life with feelings like that.
Hmm. Centuries of living like rats DOES bring a person to
where you are. You're excused. 


-- 

     Amadeh gure kiyo bekaneh?

I read in sci.electronics.design that Maleki <maleki_m_@hotmail.com>
wrote (in <10ubxf82kf5go$.4dzdpeucloc8.dlg@40tude.net>) about '[OT] I
hate being American', on Tue, 4 Jan 2005:

>Since when Imams and Mullahs have been behind this. God forbid you 
>haven't seen that day yet. 

We are getting considerable grief from some clerics in UK. It's quite
possible that they are here because at home they would be distinctly
unwelcome. In that case, they are giving all of their kind a bad name. 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk 

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33tihcF45hk79U1@individual.net...
>
>
> > You mean if al Qaeda sent armed groups of thugs across Amerika to
kill
> > its political opponents that wouldn't be terrorism?  I'm glad you
> > cleared that up for me.
>
> No. It would be War. We should not treat al Quedah activities any
other
> way than acts of War.

It is to be hoped fervently that you will win it more successfully
that you are managing to win your war in Iraq, even with British
"help".
Or Vietnam
Or Korea
Or Afghanistan

[snip]

Franz

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:nf5jt05q8lrciv4rifsobma5nosc6vt1gv@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 08:18:30 +0100, "Laura" <laura@nospam.me> wrote:
>
> >Explain how christian fundamentalist hate-mongers are any better
than
> >islamic fundamentalist ditto.
>
> There are far, far less of them. And they are disinclined towards
> kidnapping and suicide bombings.

Only because they have been in a slow but steady and welcome decline
since they last indulged in terrorist practices during the
inquisition.

Franz

"Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10tisf1ileq563a@corp.supernews.com...
> "Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:cr3pd6$gag$3@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > "John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
> > news:cr20ha$1ke8$1@news.iquest.net...
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > It is very probable that the GOVERNMENTAL measures of aid are
quite
> > a bit
> > > lower than the measures of private aid for the US.
> >
> > In that case you should kick out that self-serving lot and opt for
a
> > more intelligent government next
> > time round
>
> Or maybe the other countries shouldn't have to rely on a communistic
> approach of taxing the hell out of everyone in order to squeeze some
charity
> out of them?
>
> Knee-jerk hyperaggressive response to a similar comment.
>
> I think people in the US just think differently.

Agreed.  It is a mode of thought which I don't particularly admire,
judging by the examples to be seen in this thread.

>  Ideally, the ONLY purpose
> on tax dollars is to run the US - nothing else,

You appear not even to be successful at that, since your government is
congenitally unable to balance the books.

> and it should be minimal at
> that (ie government is meant to be reduced the the minimum
required).
> Charity falls primarily into the realm of the individual - which is
why we
> manage to provide a massive amount of funding (almost half of global
output)
> and still look bad when Europeans want to take issue with us (by
assuming
> that because most of their funding comes through tax money, so must
ours).

Actually, as in most things you are wrong.  The UK government
contribution per capita (or per GDP, take your choice) is slightly
more than that of the USA at the last count.  And the UK personal
contribution is larger than its government contribution.  And it is
still growing at slightly below 1M UKP per hour, even after four days
(if I rmember correctly) days.  The rate is now beginning to subside,
though.

Franz

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:h4g8t01ur0gn5ui2kij92cf12m0diu15gm@4ax.com...

[snip]

> For instance, we can't stop the "insurgents" in Iraq because we keep
> thinking that you can fight thugs by following the Geneva
Convention.

Such as
Guantanamo Bay
That shithouse prison  you ran in Iraq
Bombarding civilians with malice aforethought.

> Therefore, I would propose we simply get out of Iraq, and then
provide
> Israel with nuke-capable missiles... they seem to be able to bend
the
> "rules" as suits their safety.

I doubt if even your government is capable of such stupidity, but I am
probably wrong.

Franz

This thread has been immense fun, but it is beginning to pall.  How
about joining me in a belated new year resolution to call it a day?

Franz

Dear Franz Heymann:

"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message 
news:cretk3$8s$16@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> This thread has been immense fun, but it is beginning to pall.  How
> about joining me in a belated new year resolution to call it a day?

Joyous New Year then!

David A. Smith 

In article <10tld6f8kjmkf4e@corp.supernews.com>,
   "Everett Hickey" <everett@ev1.net> wrote:
><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:Z-SdnavKt4RjNUfcRVn-qw@rcn.net...
>> In article <3badnWIbF7HZ_0TcRVn-gg@rcn.net>,
>>    Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
>> >"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in
>> >news:33t5jtF43mbbaU1@individual.net:
>> >
>> >> Gactimus wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> With the exception of Christopher Reeves, who supported the 
harvesting
>> >>> of humans for his own benefit.
>> >>
>> >> Wrong. Embryos are not people. Zygotes are not people.
>> >
>> >A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically 
complete.
>>
>> The scab I scratched off yesterday is also genentically complete.
>> Are you suggesting that I scratched a human being off my skin?
>>
>>
>> >Zygote, fetus, infant, child, adolescent and adult all refer to stages 
of
>> >a human being's life cycle.
>>
>> You forgot the last one, dead body.
>
>I thought of mentioning that,

I was just nitpiking; in this newsgroup (sci.physics) there are a
plethora of people who don't know about the last step.

> .. until I decided that a corpse represents
>what's left after the life cycle is over, not the end stage of the life
>cycle itself.  I guess the end of the "life cycle" would be cellular 
death.
>After that, it's just meat and a resource for something else's life cycle.

Bacteria don't die; the purpose for some is to start the decay
process which is a slow recycling of matter.

/BAH

>

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
> Reg Edwards wrote:
>

> > The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  -
financed for
> > many years by the USA.
>
>    You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever
> went to support the IRA.

Then you do not realise that the organisations collecting for the IRA
in your country are recognised charities with the usual tax
concessions for charities, so in fact you are contributing indirectly?

[snip]

Franz

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:c7q8t0pksqf2ihrkbvjktda8h41k1g3rsr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0000, "George Dishman"
> <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
> >news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
> >> Reg Edwards wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  -
financed
> >>> for
> >>> many years by the USA.
> >>
> >>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever went
to support
> >> the IRA.
> >
> >The organisation that collects those donations
> >is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
> >tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
> >government that comes out of the taxes you pay.
> >
> >George
> >
>
> Charities (IRS 501-C-x corporations) don't pay taxes,

THat's the point. Try to think just one stage further.

[snip]

Franz

Reg Edwards wrote:
> 
> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
> many years by the USA.

You mean Noraid.  I wonder how many contributors to Noraid died in the
WTC.

George Cox wrote:

> Reg Edwards wrote:
> 
>>The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  - financed for
>>many years by the USA.
> 
> 
> You mean Noraid.  I wonder how many contributors to Noraid died in the
> WTC.

Not enough.

-- 
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:40:24 +0000, Franz Heymann wrote:

> 
> "Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
> news:c7q8t0pksqf2ihrkbvjktda8h41k1g3rsr@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0000, "George Dishman"
>> <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
>> >news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
>> >> Reg Edwards wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the IRA  -
> financed
>> >>> for
>> >>> many years by the USA.
>> >>
>> >>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever went
> to support
>> >> the IRA.
>> >
>> >The organisation that collects those donations
>> >is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
>> >tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
>> >government that comes out of the taxes you pay.
>> >
>> >George
>> >
>>
>> Charities (IRS 501-C-x corporations) don't pay taxes,
> 
> THat's the point. Try to think just one stage further.

Ok France,  Lets think this one through...  The US government exempts the
Catholic Church from taxes.  Some leadership of the Catholic Church rapes
young boys.  Therefor, the US government condones rape and pedophilia? You
are a sick (and insanely stupid) SOB!

-- 
  Keith

"Perion" <RazroRog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zqydnfVKD4EFYk7cRVn-qw@comcast.com...

[snip]

> Check
> out France's embarrassing $175,000 national effort!

Acquire the correct figures and apologise.  The last figure I know
about is  is actually 120 M Euros.  It is probably out of date by now.

> They sure put their money
> where their mouth is

They certainly do.

 - namely, up their own a**. It's a damned shame Singleterry
> and the rest of his ilk weren't born there.

You have just made an ill-mannered, ill-informed fool of yourself.

I am waiting for the apology.

Franz

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.06.02.30.22.124691@att.bizzzz...
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:40:24 +0000, Franz Heymann wrote:
>
> >
> > "Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
> > news:c7q8t0pksqf2ihrkbvjktda8h41k1g3rsr@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0000, "George Dishman"
> >> <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
> >> >news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
> >> >> Reg Edwards wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the
RA  -
> > financed
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> many years by the USA.
> >> >>
> >> >>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever
went
> > to support
> >> >> the IRA.
> >> >
> >> >The organisation that collects those donations
> >> >is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
> >> >tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
> >> >government that comes out of the taxes you pay.
> >> >
> >> >George
> >> >
> >>
> >> Charities (IRS 501-C-x corporations) don't pay taxes,
> >
> > THat's the point. Try to think just one stage further.
>
> Ok France,

Who might she be?
  Lets think this one through...  The US government exempts the
> Catholic Church from taxes.  Some leadership of the Catholic Church
rapes
> young boys.  Therefor, the US government condones rape and
pedophilia?

No.  The conclusion is thay *you* are paying for some of the
cativities of the catholic church

If you cannot even get my name straight, there is not much likelihood
that you would be capable of understanding the argument about tax
reliefs..
So be it.

> You
> are a sick (and insanely stupid) SOB!

Franz

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:27:35 +0000, Franz Heymann wrote:

> 
> "keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.01.06.02.30.22.124691@att.bizzzz...
>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:40:24 +0000, Franz Heymann wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
>> > news:c7q8t0pksqf2ihrkbvjktda8h41k1g3rsr@4ax.com...
>> >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0000, "George Dishman"
>> >> <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
>> >> >news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
>> >> >> Reg Edwards wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the
> RA  -
>> > financed
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> many years by the USA.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever
> went
>> > to support
>> >> >> the IRA.
>> >> >
>> >> >The organisation that collects those donations
>> >> >is registered as a charity in the US so it gets
>> >> >tax concessions, in a sense a subsidy from your
>> >> >government that comes out of the taxes you pay.
>> >> >
>> >> >George
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Charities (IRS 501-C-x corporations) don't pay taxes,
>> >
>> > THat's the point. Try to think just one stage further.
>>
>> Ok France,
> 
> Who might she be?
>   Lets think this one through...  The US government exempts the
>> Catholic Church from taxes.  Some leadership of the Catholic Church
> rapes
>> young boys.  Therefor, the US government condones rape and
> pedophilia?
> 
> No.  The conclusion is thay *you* are paying for some of the
> cativities of the catholic church

Ok, by your (il)logic we're also paying for rape and pedophilia.  You
are one sick EuroPeon, France.

> If you cannot even get my name straight, there is not much likelihood
> that you would be capable of understanding the argument about tax
> reliefs..

I *can* get it straight.  In fact I have.

> So be it.

It is.

>> You
>> are a sick (and insanely stupid) SOB!

Yep.  I was right.

-- 
  Keith

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:33qm40F428rvjU1@individual.net...

[snip]

> It is NOT U.S. government policy to help the IRA.

It was.  If that is not so, why did the US government allow the
collectors of funds for the IRA to retain charitable status?

[snip]

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:

 > "Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
 > news:2kZAd.24799$Cl3.6946@fed1read03...
 >
 >> Reg Edwards wrote:

 >>> The only terrorist attacks on the UK have been from the 
IRA  -
 >>> financed for
 >>> many years by the USA.

 >>   You mean "Irish-Americans". Not a penny of my taxes ever
 >> went to support the IRA.

 > Then you do not realise that the organisations collecting 
for the IRA
 > in your country are recognised charities with the usual tax
 > concessions for charities,

   Yes, I know that.

 > so in fact you are contributing indirectly?

   Does not follow. A tax not charged does not equal money 
given. It equals a disbursement from their total budget not 
made, not an increase in their total budget. Yes, I know it 
tracks back to a tax deduction for the donors, but I'm not 
giving them any money either. Ultimately, it amounts to a 
smaller total tax collected, not monies transferred from me 
to anyone.

   Mark L. Fergerson