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Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS but getting off topic

Naveen wrote:
"Long/short: Get to know and be very nice to your local systems
administrator. Then PC SAS = UNIX SAS"

meaning that the system admin controls the resources available to your jobs
and you want the admin to like you.

This brings to mind a tale of back in the days when jobs were submitted on
decks of punch cards. Long jobs might fill a card box but smaller ones were
held together with rubber bands. At the computing center in Ames, Iowa,
supposedly if you wanted special treatment, you might slip a piece of hard
candy under the rubber band.




Nat Wooding
Environmental Specialist III
Dominion, Environmental Biology
4111 Castlewood Rd
Richmond, VA 23234
Phone:804-271-5313, Fax: 804-271-2977



             NMani
             <naveen.manivanna
             n@GMAIL.COM>                                               To
             Sent by: "SAS(r)          SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
             Discussion"                                                cc
             <SAS-L@LISTSERV.U
             GA.EDU>                                               Subject
                                       Re: Difference Between PC SAS and
                                       UNIX SAS
             06/06/2008 02:02
             PM


             Please respond to
                   NMani
             <naveen.manivanna
               n@GMAIL.COM>






On Jun 5, 1:28 pm, suthakari...@yahoo.com (Suthakar Iyer) wrote:
> Hi,
> Whether there is any difference between PC SAS and UNIX SAS  from the
functionality or user point of view.
>
> If there is a difference , kindly can you mention it.
>
> Thanks for the help in advance.
>
> Suthakar
>
>

On Jun 5, 1:28 pm, suthakari...@yahoo.com (Suthakar Iyer) wrote:
> Hi,
> Whether there is any difference between PC SAS and UNIX SAS  from the
functionality or user point of view.
>
> If there is a difference , kindly can you mention it.
>
> Thanks for the help in advance.
>
> Suthakar
>
>

I've noticed a BIG difference in speed (favoring PC SAS over UNIX SAS)
but not one that necessarily has anything to do with the difference in
programs..

Administrators on UNIX machines will often set up the machine such
that a user running a job will get high CPU priority for x minutes/
hours, but the job will be dropped down to the lowest CPU priority
thereafter. This prevents one or two users from slowing down the
system for everyone else and will also make long jobs run even longer.
This can be easily solved using the 'nice' command, but that requires
superuser status to increase CPU priority(though you can decrease it
yourself). Most of the time, if you don't 'nice' to the lowest
priority before logging out, your job will get killed anyway. It took
me a while to figure out why my 30-40 minute jobs lasted lasted 4+
hours and half the time were getting killed the second I logged off.

Long/short: Get to know and be very nice to your local systems
administrator. Then PC SAS = UNIX SAS

From my experience, most windows systems running SAS are set up as
workstations. They run exactly as workstations should run and thus not
much different from UNIX SAS in terms of running code. People tend to
prefer the PC SAS interface to create and test code, but running and
deploying will always be much easier to manage on UNIX.


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6/6/2008 6:18:04 PM
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Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS but getting off topic #2
I still use the word "cards" rather than "datalines" in SAS programs to = indicate inline data; it does remind me how much easier life is than = when we had to type our SAS/SPSS programs up using punched cards. =20 AMES! What a coincidence- I was in Iowa City at the same time! Nat, are = you from Iowa? I came to Iowa City from the Boston area, and = essentially never left. Mary Howard Research Assistant III Dept. of Ophthalmology Univ. of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nat Wooding=20 To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS but getting off = topic Naveen wrote: "Long/short: Get to know and be very nice to your local systems administrator. Then PC SAS =3D UNIX SAS" meaning that the system admin controls the resources available to your = jobs and you want the admin to like you. This brings to mind a tale of back in the days when jobs were = submitted on decks of punch cards. Long jobs might fill a card box but smaller ones = were held together with rubber bands. At the computing center in Ames, = Iowa, supposedly if you wanted special treatment, you might slip a piece of = hard candy under the rubber band. Nat Wooding Environmental Specialist III Dominion, Environmental Biology 4111 Castlewood Rd Richmond, VA 23234 Phone:804-271-5313, Fax: 804-271-2977 NMani ...

Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS but getting off topic #3
Mary I was at NCSU and left in 1973. One of the young stat profs, Ron Gallant, if memory serves, came up with the Ames story. And I, too, do not recall the days of punched cards at all fondly. 1) you had to wait for a job to be read in. 2) cards became damaged on the edges from wear and had to be replaced regularly 3) you could drop the deck and scramble it. There were ways around this but they were imperfect 4) I had one experience with a new card reader which, upon encountering a damaged card, made you think that it was a different card that was the problem and one or more of your cards from that was read through the reader was/were never seen by the system. 5) try inserting new characters between columns on a punch card. There are more of these but I would rather not remember them. Nat vironmental Specialist III Dominion, Environmental Biology 4111 Castlewood Rd Richmond, VA 23234 Phone:804-271-5313, Fax: 804-271-2977 Mary <mlhoward@AVALON. NET> To Sent by: "SAS(r) SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Discussion" cc <SAS-L@LISTSERV.U GA.EDU> Subject Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS but getting off topic 06/...

Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS
I'm not aware of any differences in SAS. For sure, there are some differences for external interfaces. E.g. there are no drive letters in UNIX (C:\a\b\). Normally the path delimiters are slashes (/) instead on back-slashes (\) in UNIX, but you can use both in SAS (c:/a/b). And all the commands are different (cp instead of copy, ls instead of dir, mkdir instead of md, ...) As far as you don't need that external commands, SAS is all the same on both platforms. Some limitations could be different - not the SAS limits, but OS limits. A few years ago you could not have more than 2 GB as dataset size (that limitations is gone for long time, only as example). There might be a difference. On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:28:09 -0700, Suthakar Iyer <suthakariyer@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >Hi, >Whether there is any difference between PC SAS and UNIX SAS &nbsp;from the functionality or user point of view. >&nbsp; >If there is a difference , kindly can you mention it. >&nbsp; >Thanks for the help in advance. >&nbsp; >Suthakar >&nbsp; >&nbsp; ...

Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS #3
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 05:51:32 -0700, Lou <lpogoda@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: >On Jun 5, 11:50 pm, PaulOK <nancynpaul-s...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> On Jun 5, 5:53 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@verizon.net> wrote: >> .... >> >> > In my limited experience, there are minor programming differences - you use >> > a forward slash instead of a backward slash in path names for example, >> >> .... >> Actually one can use either forward or backward slashes in Windows SAS >> programs. > >Yes one can use either in SAS for Windows, but not in SAS for Unix > >> >> libname datalib "c:/data/project/work"; >> >> works exactly the same as >> >> libname datalib "c:\data\project\work"; >> >> .... >> >> > Lastly, the documentation for SAS on Unix is riddled with misinformation and >> > in some cases is flatly wrong - obviously copied from some other platform >> > (probably Windows) and not checked for accuracy or applicability. >> >> Could you provide a specific example where the UNIX SAS documentations >> is 'flatly wrong'. > > >I'm not currently working in a place that has a unix environment, so >this is from memory. Where I was working a couple of years ago, the >company had made the decision to go to SAS on Unix, bought a shiny new >server, installed SAS, etc. I was par...

Re: Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS #2
I cannot give a complete list by any means for these two systems but there are functions listed in TS486 that are specific to windows and afaik, Sleep is one of these. I suggest that you look at the Companion to the ... Operating System in the online docs for each of these and compare the two systems. Nat Wooding Environmental Specialist III Dominion, Environmental Biology 4111 Castlewood Rd Richmond, VA 23234 Phone:804-271-5313, Fax: 804-271-2977 Suthakar Iyer <suthakariyer@YAH OO.COM> To Sent by: "SAS(r) SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Discussion" cc <SAS-L@LISTSERV.U GA.EDU> Subject Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS 06/05/2008 02:28 PM Please respond to suthakariyer@yaho o.com Hi, Whether there is any difference between PC SAS and UNIX SAS &nbsp;from the functionality or user point of view. &nbsp; If there is a difference , kindly can you mention it. &nbsp; Thanks for the help in advance. &nbsp; Suthakar &nbsp; &nbsp; ----------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message contains information w...

Difference Between PC SAS and UNIX SAS
Hi, Whether there is any difference between PC SAS and UNIX SAS &nbsp;from the functionality or user point of view. &nbsp; If there is a difference , kindly can you mention it. &nbsp; Thanks for the help in advance. &nbsp; Suthakar &nbsp; &nbsp; "Suthakar Iyer" <suthakariyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:221005.80242.qm@web50610.mail.re2.yahoo.com... > Hi, > Whether there is any difference between PC SAS and UNIX SAS &nbsp;from the functionality or user point of view. > &nbsp; > If there is a difference , kindly can you mention it. > &nbsp; > Thanks for the help in advance. > &nbsp; > Suthakar > &nbsp; > &nbsp; In my limited experience, there are minor programming differences - you use a forward slash instead of a backward slash in path names for example, and case matters in file names for Unix but not for Windows. These are operating system issues - how you specify the physical location of a file varies with the OS. The more noticeable differences are interface issues. SAS on Unix doesn't have an application work space - the program, log, output, and other windows of a SAS session are loose objects on the desktop, while on Windows these objects are all collected within the application work space. I think this is a SAS issue - I remember back in version 6 that SAS had an application work space on Unix, and why it doesn't in version 9 is beyond me. Other appearance ...

Re: Transfering datasets to Unix /SAS from PC/SAS
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Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #33
paul_dorfman@MERCK.COM replied: > >Sander, > >It was in 1994. Yes, from what I have seen, SAP's ETL/reporting >abilities are more than rudimentary (kudos to SAS for having noted that >and utilized the niche). However, consulting fees charged to "tailor" >SAP to a particular business environment (which in reality means >tailoring the particular bussiness environment to SAP) are not >rudimentary by any measure. I do not about now (must have subsided a >bit, but then maybe not), but I distinctly remember that circa 1997 >~$250/hr was nothing special ...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #16
Von: SAS(r) Discussion Im Auftrag von Alan Churchill Gesendet: Montag, 18. September 2006 13:47 Betreff: Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS Whale vs school of minnows is the popular analogy. Alan While our popular analogy is: How many Cessna's does it take to replace a Boeing 747? 8^) Robert ...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #15
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Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #10
I started off on mainframes with ISPF and JCL 24 years ago. Didn't make the complete move to Windows until around 1998 or 1999. Been doing Windows exclusively since then. Just letting you that I've spent years in both worlds. First, perhaps this is just a matter of taste, but I find the Windows development environment far superior to the mainframe. I do admit that I've not heard of syntax highlighting or other enhancements you mention. Nor do I know of anyone else who has. I guess this is not more widely known because the mainframe types that I've run into aren't rea...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #24
I agree that the days of large mainframe purchases are nearing their end, but for a slightly different reason - licensing costs. MVS is very expensive compared to Linux, and doesn't make up for the increased licensing fees by reducing the need for support personnel. In the case of SAS, you can buy a server license that's just big enough to suit your needs, instead of a license for a machine where 99% of the users will never invoke SAS, directly or indirectly. MVS is much better at resource control than Unix (and I think it's Unix that's replacing MVS, not Windows), but it...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #21
Ben, The utilization issue is the whole point of grid computing. This is already seen at the places I mentioned where CPU utilizations are certainly not at 1%. Many of the benefits of mainframes can be found in clusters. Also, clusters can be upgraded much easier and are probably less prone to outages. I doubt that the MF will hold out any advantages over a cluster approach and hence why I think the death of the MF may be here. Alan Alan Churchill Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies" www.savian.net -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LIS...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #31
Sander, It was in 1994. Yes, from what I have seen, SAP's ETL/reporting abilities are more than rudimentary (kudos to SAS for having noted that and utilized the niche). However, consulting fees charged to "tailor" SAP to a particular business environment (which in reality means tailoring the particular bussiness environment to SAP) are not rudimentary by any measure. I do not about now (must have subsided a bit, but then maybe not), but I distinctly remember that circa 1997 ~$250/hr was nothing special in that realm. Good for those who managed to get in THAT niche :). Kind regards ------------ Paul Dorfman Jax, FL ------------ +-----Original Message----- +From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On +Behalf Of Sander Burggraaff +Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:14 AM +To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU +Subject: Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS + + +Paul, that was somewhere in the eighties I hope? + +I sometimes hear about companies where the management wants to get rid +of SAS. There is a steel manufacturing company for instance which tried +to free itself from SAS. They even removed their own SAS support +department. + +The problem was... nobody stopped using SAS... LOL! + +Years after that decision there were still productions programs running +in SAS. Apparently they kept paying licensing fees. Last year the +management decided that they might have made the wrong choice and have +turned around completely. + +I have never understood what people ha...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #28
What was it recently? No camera phones. That didn't last long because they are all now camera phones. I went onsite at one place that disabled USB ports to block USB keys. Another place said that Visual Studios was a security risk. On that one, they finally backed down when I simply said "prove it". It's non-ending with them. That's why a lot of companies outsource the function because they hinder business. Alan Alan Churchill Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies" www.savian.net -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LI...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #29
the Dilbert character "Mordac, Preventer of Information Technology" I remember hearing so many stories of the bizzare "rules" some shops would adopt. Paul has a story about use of Tabulate at one shop he worked. --Joe ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:13:02 -0600 >From: Alan Churchill <SASL001@SAVIAN.NET> >Subject: Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS >To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > >What was it recently? No camera phones. That didn't last long because they >are all now camera phones. I went onsite at one place that disabled USB &g...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #30
Joe is right. In short, many years ago (in a gigantic mainframe shop) I was asked to "look at" a tabulate-like report produced by 100,000+ lines of Cobol code b/c something was wrong with the numbers. I am not a Tabulate expert, so it took me a whole hour to write the Table statement producing about the same as Cobol - only with correct figures (since it was Tabulate doing the aggregation). SAS programs had been then prohibited from production (Cobol-only), so using my output (together with Tabulate formatting) as a template, two highly qualified Cobol programmers were given a month ...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #12
Von: SAS(r) Discussion Im Auftrag von Alan Churchill Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. September 2006 03:30 Betreff: Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS My guess is that mainframes are on the way out and with it ISPF. I wouldn't have said that in the 90s but today's environment shows that the future is grid computing and services oriented. Google, EBay, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. of the world prove that the largest data lifting out there can be done with massive clusters of intel/amd hardware and that the definite move in the industry is SOA. [...] Alan ------------------------------------------------...

Custom script for SAS/Connect from PC/SAS to UNIX
What I am trying to do is to call a specific UNIX script that points users to the correct -work and -sort directories on the UNIX side when they are using SAS/Connect on their PC. We have specific work/sort directories that users are suppose to use for their work/sort. I have thought of having users specify in their Options statement but with thousands of programs that was met with stony silence. Currently we are using the PC/SAS call below to log onto the UNIX, %LET MYNODE=XXXXXXXX sasspawn; /* XXXXXXXX = server name */ options comamid=tcp; options remote= MYNODE; filename rlink clear; f...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #35
As I recall, at an SUGI opening session around 1999 or 2000, Dr. Goodnight remarked that one firm had solved their Y2K problems by electing to install SAP. The installation was so costly that they went bankrupt. Nat Wooding ----------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message contains information which may be legally confidential and/or privileged and does not in any case represent a firm ENERGY COMMODITY bid or offer relating thereto which binds the sender without an additional express written confirmation to that effect. The information is intended s...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #34
In the late 80's, I watched an IT department refuse to give our outlying lab enough computing power. So our lab put in some unix boxes, and one of our guys installed a Wollongong setup so that the unix network could talk with the VAX that was all we were supposed to have. The IT guys flew out to argue with us that unix was a bad decision. They said, "You can't talk to the VAX systems!" We said, "We do already. Look! It's already up and running!" Their response: "No, you can't get that to work." None are so blind as those who will not see. ...

Re: PC SAS vs. Mainframe SAS #11
My guess is that mainframes are on the way out and with it ISPF. I wouldn't have said that in the 90s but today's environment shows that the future is grid computing and services oriented. Google, EBay, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. of the world prove that the largest data lifting out there can be done with massive clusters of intel/amd hardware and that the definite move in the industry is SOA. I think the large Unix boxes will be similarly challenged. No ill will but no one is keeping up with the AMD/Intel war. SAS 9.2, hopefully, will introduce web services to SAS customers. That should...

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