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Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #8

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007, Alan Churchill wrote:

> It seems that a test like this would toss me out of the pool from the
> get-go. Heck, maybe that's what the goal would be ;-]

Well then, maybe the rest of us might have a chance then :)

Given that I have not used SAS regularly in months, I would be hurting.
Hopefully, I would not be tossed immediately either.

Isn't one point of the test to allow a organization to call itself a
partner or some other distinction?  Maybe to be listed among companies on
SI's websites?

Kevin

Kevin Viel, PhD
Post-doctoral fellow
Department of Genetics
Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research
San Antonio, TX 78227
0
kviel (700)
9/4/2007 10:01:56 PM
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Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #9
ALan , Lets keep this to straight SAS, I dont tell people what they should use in SAS to produce the report, but rather I say here is what the report should look like, here i sthe data set, here ar the specs, now go make it happen. If your hirng a junior level programmer they should know the data step and say proc sort, proc print, proc format. If your going after a Senior level programmer the test should be harder and reflect more things like ODs, macro, etc... In your case you dont promote straight SAS solutions and that is great, but a whole other market than a straight SAS programmer. Toby Dunn Comprimise is like telling a lie, it gets easier and easier. Each comprimise you make, that becomes your standard. Perfection doesnt exist, once you reach it, its not perfect anymore. It means something else. From: Alan Churchill <savian001@GMAIL.COM> Reply-To: Alan Churchill <savian001@GMAIL.COM> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:54:31 -0600 Well Toby, let me ask something then. Since I am not an ODS fan and haven't used proc report/tabulate for some time, would that be an automatic disqualifier since you don't allow reference books or materials? SAS does not provide tools that help me code ODS (except for EG) and therefore a reference material is all I would need. Now, it's not like I haven't used proc report (used it extensively at one time), ...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year.
I took the advanced exam this April because I wanted a relatively systematic way of assessing my knowledge of SAS in a short time span. For that purpose, it was worth it. Since I learn SAS by doing new tasks, or re-doing old tasks in a new way, I assume my knowledge of SAS is uneven, even though I am regarded as productive, and frequently creative in using SAS to solve our group's problems. I passed the test, with lower subscores on the components that I expected to be weakest on. I thought many of the questions made me think about some fundamental, sometimes subtle, features of the language. I did some guessing, but that was on my weaker topics. So the exam results, in my view, reflected something real. I agree, a prospective employer should not put much stock in SAS certification exams. Many highly effective people are not good test takers. Besides, this exam is a crude instrument. My score was identical to a colleague who still regularly asks me for guidance in finding solutions in SAS to specific problems. I probably know more SAS than he does (and he is a good SAS programmer), but you wouldn't know from the exam results. As to version 9-specific questions, I don't recall whether there was much material that was version 9 only. But I expected the test to be more oriented to "advanced" concepts than to new features of version 9. By the way, even though I passed, I can't get a SAS advanced certificate -- because I haven't taken the...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #5
Good deal Bob, atleast that company was headed in the right direction IMO... I have given such tests and taken them. I ussually give them a data set, the specs I want them to follow, and a example of what I want the output to look like. Then I tend to give them like 4 or 5 hours if they need it to complete the project. In reallity they should be done in an hour or so. The test should be challenging but not too challenging, and the solution should involve a few data steps, procedures, and some type of reporting..... Toby Dunn Comprimise is like telling a lie, it gets easier and easier. Each comprimise you make, that becomes your standard. Perfection doesnt exist, once you reach it, its not perfect anymore. It means something else. From: Bob_Abelson@HGSI.COM Reply-To: Bob_Abelson@HGSI.COM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:22:59 -0400 I interviewed at a company that gave a test where I had a half hour to produce a very simple report using PROC REPORT. I was provided all the manuals I wanted, but because I had used PROC REPORT before, I wanted none of them. I finished in five minutes, and most people on SAS-L would be able to beat that time. Bob Abelson HGSI 240 314 4400 x1374 bob_abelson@hgsi.com "toby dunn" <tobydunn@HOTMAIL.COM> Sent by: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> 09/04/2007 05:15 PM Please respond to "toby d...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #2
jontugman, Test preparation is akin to following a simple algorithm: 1. Evaluate the test and discover if it is worth taking. 2. If #1 evaluates false then go to exit. 3. Determine if your *test* knowledge of SAS is insufficient. 4. If #3 evaluates true, do the test preparation. 5. Pay the money. 6. Take the test. 7 Exit. From your standpoint, the step of paramount importance is step #1. That is where you mainly failed. From SAS' standpoint, only one step matters: #5. This is the only reason the test was created in the first place. The world would be a better place if all employers understood that as well. However, some recruiters/HRers require the certificate as a CYA backup should they accidentally hire a pure test-passer. Fortunately, I have not seen many occurrences of this nature since the inception of the boondoggle, perhaps because most candidates are almost inevitably interviewed by people qualified in SAS better than HR. And most qualified people saw the program for what it is even before its advent. SAS-L is replete with numerous posts to prove it. Needless to say, it does not imply in any way that any certificate-holder has no more SAS behind the belt than the certificate can cover. Far from that! Many fantastic real-world people have been forced into the thing by their SAS partnership business needs, many have taken it just for the heck of it because their employer would pay for it, etc. My opposition to the thing as a matter of principle is based on t...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #3
Okay, I think I need to weigh-in on this. First, the exam is designed to test what you know about how SAS works. I think it does a fair job at that. (I say so partly because I only scored 89 on the exam. Now, I didn't prepare for the exam; I was really testing the exam when I took it as opposed to using the exam to test my skills.) The exam doesn't know how well you can program. There is a big difference between having a large vocabulary and knowing the rules of grammar and knowing how to write. Similarly, there's a big difference between knowing how SAS works and knowing how to program. The exam does not test how well you can program. That said, when I look for someone to hire that I don't know, I need everything I can get to evaluate the candidate. Sure, it would be nice if they brought a portfolio of their code so I could see what they can write. That seldom happens, and when it does the code is often not really written by the applicant. So, I look for other things. An applicant often tells what they worked on, but that too can be exaggerated. What am I left with? Well, someone can program who doesn't know SAS, but probably they won't be a very good SAS programmer. I'd rather have the exam to judge than to not have the exam. If I were to apply for a job where the employer didn't know me, I would also want the certification to help them make the decision. Oh, as for the version 9 questions, I remember finding several. Just d...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #11
Kevin, Thank you for the nice words...I am sure I wouldn't have a chance on any stat exam, BTW. What I am good at is being in an absolute crisis and trying to get it solved with no time on the clock. That is why I think in a quirky manner. When the obvious isn't working, take a different path because there is simply no time left. It's what I did at MCI, SAS, and now as an independent. ....and that skill will not be measured on a certification exam or plopping me in front of a PC to hammer out an example SAS program. For any candidate, I can pick up their technical level with a few questions and watching their reactions. Alan Alan Churchill Savian www.savian.net -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin Roland Viel Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:02 PM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. On Tue, 4 Sep 2007, Alan Churchill wrote: > It seems that a test like this would toss me out of the pool from the > get-go. Heck, maybe that's what the goal would be ;-] Well then, maybe the rest of us might have a chance then :) Given that I have not used SAS regularly in months, I would be hurting. Hopefully, I would not be tossed immediately either. Isn't one point of the test to allow a organization to call itself a partner or some other distinction? Maybe to be listed among companies on SI's websites? Kevin Kevin ...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #10
I actually think you are straight-jacketing the interview for a senior person. I would definitely look for someone who thought outside of the box. That may be ways of doing things other than macros or ODS or else putting a new spin on them. I ditched most of the macro language a decade ago, for example. As a hiring manager, I always went for creativity and not specific skills on hand and was very pleased with my hires. But hey, I don't hire anymore so it isn't something I have to face. BTW, no client has ever asked me for certification nor have I been quizzed on specific SAS knowledge. YMMV. Alan Alan Churchill Savian www.savian.net -----Original Message----- From: toby dunn [mailto:tobydunn@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 7:04 PM To: savian001@GMAIL.COM; SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. ALan , Lets keep this to straight SAS, I dont tell people what they should use in SAS to produce the report, but rather I say here is what the report should look like, here i sthe data set, here ar the specs, now go make it happen. If your hirng a junior level programmer they should know the data step and say proc sort, proc print, proc format. If your going after a Senior level programmer the test should be harder and reflect more things like ODs, macro, etc... In your case you dont promote straight SAS solutions and that is great, but a whole other market than a straight SAS programmer. To...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #7
Well Toby, let me ask something then. Since I am not an ODS fan and haven't used proc report/tabulate for some time, would that be an automatic disqualifier since you don't allow reference books or materials? SAS does not provide tools that help me code ODS (except for EG) and therefore a reference material is all I would need. Now, it's not like I haven't used proc report (used it extensively at one time), it's just that I prefer other means to produce the final output. It seems that a test like this would toss me out of the pool from the get-go. Heck, maybe that's what the goal would be ;-] Alan Alan Churchill Savian www.savian.net -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of toby dunn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:34 PM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. Good deal Bob, atleast that company was headed in the right direction IMO... I have given such tests and taken them. I ussually give them a data set, the specs I want them to follow, and a example of what I want the output to look like. Then I tend to give them like 4 or 5 hours if they need it to complete the project. In reallity they should be done in an hour or so. The test should be challenging but not too challenging, and the solution should involve a few data steps, procedures, and some type of reporting..... Toby Dunn Comprimise is like telling a lie, it...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #6
I interviewed at a company that gave a test where I had a half hour to produce a very simple report using PROC REPORT. I was provided all the manuals I wanted, but because I had used PROC REPORT before, I wanted none of them. I finished in five minutes, and most people on SAS-L would be able to beat that time. Bob Abelson HGSI 240 314 4400 x1374 bob_abelson@hgsi.com "toby dunn" <tobydunn@HOTMAIL.COM> Sent by: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> 09/04/2007 05:15 PM Please respond to "toby dunn" <tobydunn@HOTMAIL.COM> To SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU cc Subject Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. Ed , I still contend and stick with they should both be able to program and know how SAS works. I prefer the intervewing company give a test, were the person being interviewed is sat in front a laptop or desktop and told to write code to solve some problems. No online help no books just the persona nd the computer. This weeds out those who can code and those who cant, from those who can you then talk to them about the code they wrote and you can deduce those who understand how SAS works and thos who dont. The pool you are left with are the qualified candidates atleast from a SAS perspective and you can make your choice from there. Toby Dunn Comprimise is like telling a lie, it gets easier and easier. Each comprimise you make, that becomes your standard. Perfection doesnt exist, once...

Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. #4
Ed , I still contend and stick with they should both be able to program and know how SAS works. I prefer the intervewing company give a test, were the person being interviewed is sat in front a laptop or desktop and told to write code to solve some problems. No online help no books just the persona nd the computer. This weeds out those who can code and those who cant, from those who can you then talk to them about the code they wrote and you can deduce those who understand how SAS works and thos who dont. The pool you are left with are the qualified candidates atleast from a SAS perspective and you can make your choice from there. Toby Dunn Comprimise is like telling a lie, it gets easier and easier. Each comprimise you make, that becomes your standard. Perfection doesnt exist, once you reach it, its not perfect anymore. It means something else. From: Ed Heaton <EdHeaton@WESTAT.COM> Reply-To: Ed Heaton <EdHeaton@WESTAT.COM> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year. Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:52:16 -0400 Okay, I think I need to weigh-in on this. First, the exam is designed to test what you know about how SAS works. I think it does a fair job at that. (I say so partly because I only scored 89 on the exam. Now, I didn't prepare for the exam; I was really testing the exam when I took it as opposed to using the exam to test my skills.) The exam doesn't know how well you can program...

SAS Advanced Programming Exam for SAS 9: SAS Joke of the year.
Sick joke, not funny. You would have thought that adding the 9 tag to the exam would have meant testing the ability of using version 9. Not so. The exam doesn't test the ability of version 9. It doesn't even test the ability of using SAS. It tests one's ability of guessing the right answer, because on a lot of the questions that's all you can do. We cannot take material out of the test centre, so I am relating these issues from memory, but 42 is the answer to the Universe, and this one did stick in my memory. Question 42: Correct answer: None of the above. They have swapped the value of one of the observations around and there is no option in the A-D to do that. At least two other questions return a different sort order to the input, with no sort order in the options. After coming across question 42, I almost walked out. But I had been preparing for this exam for weeks, and I was determined to see it through to the end. Plus I don't like throwing money away. You might call me bitter: Failed the exam by 2%, that is just one guess wrong. I normally have problems with multi-guess exams, the only exception being IQ tests which I normally score quite high on. But as with the IQ tests, this SAS advanced certification is totally meaningless. I came across a thread written some years ago, which the writers expressed the opinion that it doesn't count for anything at all. I had already paid for the exam by then, but if I had read that I wouldn't have p...

Re: SAS 9 and SAS 8
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SAS 9 and SAS 8
Could someone send me the papers or articles that gives the differences between sas 8 and sas 9 and new function and changes in sas 9. Thanks http://support.sas.com/documentation/whatsnew/index.html and many proceedings at http://www.lexjansen.com On Nov 20, 3:28=A0pm, pausha <paus...@gmail.com> wrote: > Could =A0someone send me the papers or articles that gives the > differences between sas 8 and sas 9 and new function and changes in > sas 9. > > Thanks ...

Re: SAS System Viewer 9.1 unable to open SAS datasets ( SAS 9.1.3)
A question in return: is your table from windows? compressed from another system? and specially with personnel formats hard coded inside? Andre msiddu2000 a �crit : > SAS System Viewer 9.1 was able to open datasets that were created by > V8 engine (SAS 8.2), but is unable to open datasets that are created > with V9 engine (SAS 9.1.3). > > Does this need SAS System Viewer to be upgraded ? > or > Something else needs to be done ? > > -- Andr� WIELKI INED (Institut National d'Etudes D�mographiques) Service Informatique 133 Boulevard Davout 75980 Paris Cedex 20 m�l : wielki@ined.fr t�l : 33 (0) 1 56 06 21 54 ...

Re: PHREG SAS 8 vs SAS 9
Sorry I changed the number of loops to 10 instead of 1000 to reduce the running time. But still, it takes much longer in SAS 9 compared to SAS 8... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francois Torche" <torche@i-minds.be> Sent: Fri, December 19, 2008 13:58 Subject:PHREG SAS 8 vs SAS 9 Hi All, The following code runs in less than a minute on SAS 8.2 and more than 11 on SAS 9. I know it's something related to PHREG but I don't know why? Any help would be appreciated ;-) Thanks, François <CODE> PROC FORMAT; VALUE dis_fmt 1='Case' 0='Control'; VALUE exp_fmt 1='Vaccntd' 0='Unvaccntd'; RUN; DATA test (label = Output Case-Control Macro 19DEC08:13:18:12 Search B); Ncases = 200; C_C_Rat = 2; Vac_Cov = 0.8; Market_sh = 1; OR = 0.5; Alpha = 0.05; _theta = 2.5; Limit = 1; Uplow = "U"; OUTPUT; RUN; DATA test; SET test nobs=last; IF _N_ = last THEN CALL SYMPUT("NofTest",put(_N_,best.)); if (Vac_cov * OR)/(1-Vac_cov+Vac_cov * OR) > 1 then delete; RD = (OR-1) * Vac_cov * (1-Vac_cov) / (1-Vac_cov + OR * Vac_cov); Zalpha = PROBIT(1-Alpha/2); LABEL Ncases = "Number of cases" C_C_rat = "Case-control ratio" VAC_COV = "Vaccination coverage - baseline - P(vaccinated|not ill)" OR = "Odds Ratio" Alpha = "Alpha Error - Type I" Limit = "Upper or Lower limit for the confidence interval of OR or VE" Uplow = "Say if Limit is an upper or lower lim...

Re: SAS programming and SAS/BI
<div>Auto..,</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>&gt;From what I've read, it hasn't been to clear what all<BR>&gt;is involved with SAS/BI in terms SAS programming. &nbsp;So I take it<BR>&gt;there's really isn't much programming involved.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>IMO and IME:</div> <div>Yes and&nbsp;No; but really&nbsp;somewhere in&nbsp;between.&nbsp; One reason for&nbsp;the confusion is that SAS BI is a&nbsp;number of produ...

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Re: SAS 8.2 = SAS 8.02 ?
On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:29:57 -0500, Igor Kurbeko <ikurbeko@ATHEROGENICS.COM> wrote: >Hi, guys. > > > >Are SAS releases 8.2 and 8.02 one and the same? > > > >I wanted to apply hot fix for SAS Release 8.2 (TS2M0) B2BB97. > >But we use SAS 8.02 Hi, Igor, SAS releases 8.2, 8.02, and 8e refer to the same thing Release 8.2 (TS2M0), at least on Windows platform and likely so in other platforms. It seems an outcome of the development and marketing not in sync -- which is much frequent happening in the industry. Like Java 2 is in fact Java 1.2 and above, ms off...

Re: Running SAS programs from within a SAS program
Keith, You can use a series of %include statements naming the programs in the order you want to call them in. %include "drive:\your_folder\program name.txt" ; Mah-J M. Soobader, PhD Principal consultant STATWORKS www.statworks.com -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Keith W. Larson Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:32 PM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Running SAS programs from within a SAS program Dear All, I have several small(ish) SAS programs that convert and format DBF files. Thanks to all who helped solve...

Re: Running a SAS program within a SAS program
%include() On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Kathleen Santos <flowerpotcat@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to combine multi years of data into one. Each year has a > particular data set and a particular program to create a SAS dataset. > However, not all programs are the same (e.g. variable names may change > throughout the years). > > What I would like to do is to create one program that would call on the > other programs to create SAS datasets. Then I'll integrate them together and > do whatever I it is I need to do. > > I hope someone can help me. > > Thanks. > > Kathleen > -- =============================== WenSui Liu ChoicePoint Precision Marketing Phone: 678-893-9457 Email : wensui.liu@choicepoint.com Blog : statcompute.spaces.live.com =============================== ...

Simulator for SAS Base Programming for SAS(r) 9 Certification Exam
Here's a sneak-peek at the upcoming SAS Certification exam simulator and reviewer: http://sas2themax.com/blogs/ Requirements for Beta testers: o must be at least SAS Base Programming certified o must have a license to the SAS Online Tutor (that came with SAS 8.2 or later) o preferably a SAS book or SUGI author/presentor (optional) Happy New Year to all! Regards, Audi http://sas2themax.com ...

Re: Running a SAS program within a SAS program #2
Kathleen Based on your subject, my immediate impulse was %inlude() where you put a fileref in the quotes. However, I think you want to do something else. You say that you have individual programs that produce a set for each year. Do you store these sets somewhere or do you run the programs when you want data for a given year. I would suggest that you first get a collection of these yearly sets and run a contents on each one. Then, write a program similar to Data mylib.combined; set mylib.year1(rename = (Dates = Date ....)) mylib.year2(rename= (Sdates=Date....)) ..... ; The idea would be to get rid of the variations in the variable names. You could simply copy in the individual programs into one honking big program and keep running this until you get a uniform combined set but you will use a lot of machine cycles doing this. Assuming that you have to make several passes at the data in order to get things right, I would work from stored data sets where all you are doing is changing the rename statements. Good luck Nat Wooding Environmental Specialist III Dominion, Environmental Biology 4111 Castlewood Rd Richmond, VA 23234 Phone:804-271-5313, Fax: 804-271-2977 Kathleen Santos <flowerpotcat@GMA IL.COM> To Sent by: "SAS(r) SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Discussion" cc <SAS-...

Re: Running a SAS program within a SAS program #3
Kathleen, You can use %INCLUDE in a SAS program to call other SAS programs. Jack Clark Research Analyst Center for Health Program Development and Management University of Maryland, Baltimore County -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kathleen Santos Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:55 PM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Running a SAS program within a SAS program Hello, I would like to combine multi years of data into one. Each year has a particular data set and a particular program to create a SAS dataset. However, not all programs are the same (e.g. variable names may change throughout the years). What I would like to do is to create one program that would call on the other programs to create SAS datasets. Then I'll integrate them together and do whatever I it is I need to do. I hope someone can help me. Thanks. Kathleen ...

Re: Can a SAS program call another SAS program
> From: David Fickbohm > I am writing a report that counts the number of widgets produced by > partners. I have a small routine that finds the partners id > number and > name. Obviously I could copy this code into my program and > execute it. I was wondering if there was a more elegant way > of "Calling" a SAS program > from within a SAS program. > I am running SAS 8.1 in windows. still!?!? surely that is a typo: 9.1? i.e.: -The- 9.1==9.1.3 include it: - - - subRoutineX.sas - - - *...; - - - subRoutineX.sas end - - - - - - autoexec.sas - - - filen...

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