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BBC Plus 64K - can it be software/hardware switched back to "standard" BBC B?

I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and I'd 
love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the versions of 
these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be 
software/hardware switched back to the standard BBC B?

I know the later Superior release of Elite was tweaked to play with the 
later machines, but was Aviator's code ever adapted for the newer Beebs?

Thanks

Steve
0
3/21/2008 12:24:30 PM
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:24:30 +0000, Steve wrote:

> I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and I'd 
> love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the versions of 
> these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be 
> software/hardware switched back to the standard BBC B?

Might just be a shadow screen RAM issue? ISTR having problems years
ago trying to run some games on an ACW (which is B+ based) which were
fixed by issuing a '*shadow off' before running the game.

cheers

Jules

0
3/21/2008 1:25:51 PM
Jules wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:24:30 +0000, Steve wrote:
> 
>> I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and I'd 
>> love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the versions of 
>> these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be 
>> software/hardware switched back to the standard BBC B?
> 
> Might just be a shadow screen RAM issue? ISTR having problems years
> ago trying to run some games on an ACW (which is B+ based) which were
> fixed by issuing a '*shadow off' before running the game.
> 

Thanks for the info Jules, but I can't get that command to work.  Is 
there a similar command, anyone?

Thanks anyway

Steve
0
3/21/2008 8:47:29 PM
Steve wrote:
> >> I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and I'd
> >> love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the versions of
> >> these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be

It could be that they are prodding the disk hardware directly. The
BBC B+ comes with a 1770 FDC by default, most BBC Bs used
the 8271. Programs should never prod the hardware, they should
use the defined API calls, but try telling that to programmers.
(Oh, but it works on /my/ machine...)

> > Might just be a shadow screen RAM issue? ISTR having problems years
> > ago trying to run some games on an ACW (which is B+ based) which were
> > fixed by issuing a '*shadow off' before running the game.
> Thanks for the info Jules, but I can't get that command to work.  Is
> there a similar command, anyone?

*SHADOW (ie, *SHADOW 0) - shadow screen selected after
next MODE change
*SHADOW 1 - after next MODE change MODE >127 select
shadow screen, MODE <128 select nonshadow screen.

--
JGH
0
jgh2 (975)
3/21/2008 9:36:11 PM
jgharston wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>>>> I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and I'd
>>>> love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the versions of
>>>> these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be
> 
> It could be that they are prodding the disk hardware directly. The
> BBC B+ comes with a 1770 FDC by default, most BBC Bs used
> the 8271. Programs should never prod the hardware, they should
> use the defined API calls, but try telling that to programmers.
> (Oh, but it works on /my/ machine...)
> 
>>> Might just be a shadow screen RAM issue? ISTR having problems years
>>> ago trying to run some games on an ACW (which is B+ based) which were
>>> fixed by issuing a '*shadow off' before running the game.
>> Thanks for the info Jules, but I can't get that command to work.  Is
>> there a similar command, anyone?
> 
> *SHADOW (ie, *SHADOW 0) - shadow screen selected after
> next MODE change
> *SHADOW 1 - after next MODE change MODE >127 select
> shadow screen, MODE <128 select nonshadow screen.
> 
> --
> JGH

Thanks for the info.  I've just had a look in a couple of old Acorn User 
mags - *shadow 1 turns off the extra RAM in theory, but when I load up 
either Aviator or Elite on disk I keep getting, "This programme only 
works on a BBC Microcomputer."

Agh.
0
3/22/2008 6:11:09 AM
Steve wrote:
> jgharston wrote:
>> Steve wrote:
>>>>> I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and I'd
>>>>> love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the 
>>>>> versions of
>>>>> these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be
>>
>> It could be that they are prodding the disk hardware directly. The
>> BBC B+ comes with a 1770 FDC by default, most BBC Bs used
>> the 8271. Programs should never prod the hardware, they should
>> use the defined API calls, but try telling that to programmers.
>> (Oh, but it works on /my/ machine...)
>>
>>>> Might just be a shadow screen RAM issue? ISTR having problems years
>>>> ago trying to run some games on an ACW (which is B+ based) which were
>>>> fixed by issuing a '*shadow off' before running the game.
>>> Thanks for the info Jules, but I can't get that command to work.  Is
>>> there a similar command, anyone?
>>
>> *SHADOW (ie, *SHADOW 0) - shadow screen selected after
>> next MODE change
>> *SHADOW 1 - after next MODE change MODE >127 select
>> shadow screen, MODE <128 select nonshadow screen.
>>
>> -- 
>> JGH
> 
> Thanks for the info.  I've just had a look in a couple of old Acorn User 
> mags - *shadow 1 turns off the extra RAM in theory, but when I load up 
> either Aviator or Elite on disk I keep getting, "This programme only 
> works on a BBC Microcomputer."
> 
> Agh.
I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elite 
thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro!  How you get around it I don't know.

-- 
Reader in Invisible Writings..   Something to Ponder upon!
0
3/22/2008 5:03:31 PM
Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>> jgharston wrote:
>>> Steve wrote:
>>>>>> I have a BBC Plus 64K that I've recently completed rebuilding, and 
>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>> love to play Aviator and Elite on disk.  Unfortunately, the 
>>>>>> versions of
>>>>>> these games I have don't run on the B Plus.  Can the Plus features be
>>>
>>> It could be that they are prodding the disk hardware directly. The
>>> BBC B+ comes with a 1770 FDC by default, most BBC Bs used
>>> the 8271. Programs should never prod the hardware, they should
>>> use the defined API calls, but try telling that to programmers.
>>> (Oh, but it works on /my/ machine...)
>>>
>>>>> Might just be a shadow screen RAM issue? ISTR having problems years
>>>>> ago trying to run some games on an ACW (which is B+ based) which were
>>>>> fixed by issuing a '*shadow off' before running the game.
>>>> Thanks for the info Jules, but I can't get that command to work.  Is
>>>> there a similar command, anyone?
>>>
>>> *SHADOW (ie, *SHADOW 0) - shadow screen selected after
>>> next MODE change
>>> *SHADOW 1 - after next MODE change MODE >127 select
>>> shadow screen, MODE <128 select nonshadow screen.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> JGH
>>
>> Thanks for the info.  I've just had a look in a couple of old Acorn 
>> User mags - *shadow 1 turns off the extra RAM in theory, but when I 
>> load up either Aviator or Elite on disk I keep getting, "This 
>> programme only works on a BBC Microcomputer."
>>
>> Agh.
> I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elite 
> thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro!  How you get around it I don't know.
> 
Damn.  I really would like to use my B+ primarily but it looks like I'll 
just have to leave it on the shelf and break out my BBC Master.  Or 
finally give up and get a BBC B mainboard....
0
3/22/2008 10:40:04 PM
> I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elite 
> thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro!  How you get around it I don't know.

How aggravating would that have been to have received that message, 
after shelling out a 100 quid premium on the standard BBC B back in 1985?!

It's a bloody pain for me though.  I've been fiddling around for six 
months trying to get a decent disk drive for this machine, and then 
getting the machine to work with the drive.  I was told a couple of days 
ago it was a question of access timing, controlled by the PCB links on 
the bottom right of the keyboard.  I cut both the links (holes 3 & 4) 
and immediately could load some software.  But not my favourite games, 
Elite and Aviator!

Aw well, at least I still have my BBC Master.  There are less 
compatibility issues with these games with the Master?  The only issue 
with using the Master over the B is I have a custom-made desk I got with 
  a complete BBC B setup (70% of which didn't work at all - another 
story).  I'll have to saw a slot in the side so the wider Master will fit!


0
3/22/2008 11:06:21 PM
Steve wrote:
> > I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elite
> > thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro!  How you get around it I don't know.

Do Ctrl-Shift-Z-Break (instead of Shift-D-Break) and Acorn 1770 DFS
sets up a couple of hooks, one of which intercepts OSBYTE 0 and
OSBYTE 129 to return values pretending to be a BBC B (host=1,
type=255) instead of a B+ (host=2, type=254).

The lesson is: never write code that pretends to know what
functionality
the system is running on has. Just do the damn call and read the
results.

--
JGH
0
jgh2 (975)
3/23/2008 9:00:30 PM
jgharston wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>>> I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elite
>>> thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro!  How you get around it I don't know.
> 
> Do Ctrl-Shift-Z-Break (instead of Shift-D-Break) and Acorn 1770 DFS
> sets up a couple of hooks, one of which intercepts OSBYTE 0 and
> OSBYTE 129 to return values pretending to be a BBC B (host=1,
> type=255) instead of a B+ (host=2, type=254).
> 
> The lesson is: never write code that pretends to know what
> functionality
> the system is running on has. Just do the damn call and read the
> results.
> 
> --
> JGH

Thanks for that - I got Aviator running on my B+.  Fantastic!  Didn't 
work with Elite though.  I've got out my BBC Master from storage, but 
it's the same story: "This software requires a BBC Microcomputer."

I've opened a new thread for this.

Thanks again.

Steve
0
3/24/2008 3:29:46 AM
On Mar 24, 4:29=A0am, Steve <NoSpamFo...@me.com> wrote:
> jgharston wrote:
> > Steve wrote:
> >>> I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elit=
e
> >>> thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro! =A0How you get around it I don't k=
now.
>
> > Do Ctrl-Shift-Z-Break (instead of Shift-D-Break) and Acorn 1770 DFS
> > sets up a couple of hooks, one of which intercepts OSBYTE 0 and
> > OSBYTE 129 to return values pretending to be a BBC B (host=3D1,
> > type=3D255) instead of a B+ (host=3D2, type=3D254).
>
> > The lesson is: never write code that pretends to know what
> > functionality
> > the system is running on has. Just do the damn call and read the
> > results.
>
> > --
> > JGH
>
> Thanks for that - I got Aviator running on my B+. =A0Fantastic! =A0Didn't
> work with Elite though. =A0I've got out my BBC Master from storage, but
> it's the same story: "This software requires a BBC Microcomputer."
>
> I've opened a new thread for this.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Read in another post that this incompatibility was down to Elite
prodding the FDC chip directly to implement copy protection. The B had
an 8271 FDC whereas the B+ & Master series used a WD1770...
0
garethlock (227)
4/7/2008 3:46:35 PM
garethlock@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mar 24, 4:29 am, Steve <NoSpamFo...@me.com> wrote:
>> jgharston wrote:
>>> Steve wrote:
>>>>> I remember that being quoted at the time as being humorous - i.e. Elite
>>>>> thought the B+ was not a BBC Micro!  How you get around it I don't know.
>>> Do Ctrl-Shift-Z-Break (instead of Shift-D-Break) and Acorn 1770 DFS
>>> sets up a couple of hooks, one of which intercepts OSBYTE 0 and
>>> OSBYTE 129 to return values pretending to be a BBC B (host=1,
>>> type=255) instead of a B+ (host=2, type=254).
>>> The lesson is: never write code that pretends to know what
>>> functionality
>>> the system is running on has. Just do the damn call and read the
>>> results.
>>> --
>>> JGH
>> Thanks for that - I got Aviator running on my B+.  Fantastic!  Didn't
>> work with Elite though.  I've got out my BBC Master from storage, but
>> it's the same story: "This software requires a BBC Microcomputer."
>>
>> I've opened a new thread for this.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Read in another post that this incompatibility was down to Elite
> prodding the FDC chip directly to implement copy protection. The B had
> an 8271 FDC whereas the B+ & Master series used a WD1770...

Thanks for the info.  It's one of those things "I'll get around to."  I 
have a 3.5" BBC floppy that's brand new (just needs the BBC power plug), 
and I'm thinking about using Omniflop to drop my collection of disk 
images onto floppies.  I still rather fancy a BBC B mainboard though....

Steve
0
5/17/2008 7:46:00 AM
Reply:

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Somewhere during one of the updates of Fedora Core 2, I encountered a strange problem I can't resolve. Whenever I select "back" <b> in either "less" of "man", instead of jumping back a screen at once, it slowly duplicates the top line at a rate of about one line per second until the entire screen is a series of duplicate lines at which point it suddenly transforms to the correct screen. Paging forward is normal, only backward is doing this strange slow line duplication. I have Fedora fully updated to "Core 2 Release", but the problem is still there. Any ideas? Thanks! ...

None of the ways to bring back the "safely remove hardware" arrow have worked
The little Safely Remove Hardware icon has gone missing from our computer (Windows XP). We got the following advice from a friend and have tried all these steps (except for #5--punt), to no avail. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! 1. If the computer has not been restarted since the problem began, try that. 2. Make sure a device that the computer recognizes as a removable USB device is plugged in and functioning. I would use that external hard drive, make sure the PC can see it in Windows Explorer. If the hard drive is not available, use some other removable storage device, just be sure it shows up in Windows Explorer. 3. try going to Control Panel>Taskbar and Start Menu then click 'Customize' and make sure Safely Remove Hardware is set to always show. 4. try going to Control Panel>Taskbar and Start Menu and make sure 'Hide inactive icons' is not checked. 5. punt elbarcolutra@yahoo.com wrote: >The little Safely Remove Hardware icon has gone missing from our >computer (Windows XP). We got the following advice from a friend and >have tried all these steps (except for #5--punt), to no avail. Remove all the USB hubs from the Device Manager, also the hidden ones. Restart the computer. "Device Manager Does Not Display Devices That Are Not Connected to the Windows XP-Based Computer" (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315539) -- (tm) ...

For sale: games for Amstrad & Acorn BBC & Acorn Electron & Commodore 64 & Commodore Vic20 & Dragon 32 & Oric & Sinclair ZX81 & Sinclair ZX Spectrum (16k & 48k) & IBM PC (5.25" & 3.5" & CD)
I have many old games, on 5.25" & 3.5" & CD for PC and on tapes for Amstrad & Acorn BBC & Acorn Electron & Commodore 64 & Commodore Vic20 & Dragon 32 & Oric & Sinclair ZX81 & Sinclair ZX Spectrum (16k & 48k). I need to sell some of them. Would you like to buy any? I have bank accounts in the U.K.; the Republic of Ireland; Sweden; Germany; the Netherlands and Italy, so I can accept payment in a number of currencies and in a number of ways. I live at 2461 Via Tosco Romagnola, Titignano, 56023 Cascina (PI), Italy. Send me an email or a lett...

Re: "out" and "in out"
"no reliable initial value" means, you cannot rely on the value, but it may have a value. This depends on the parameter passing mechanism, which is _not_ related to the parameter mode (contrary to what many people think). So the parameter mode is there (nearly) solely for the information of the reader. The parameter passing mechanism for all kinds of parameters is defined in the RM. There are parameters passed by copy (in and out), by reference; for some it is explicitly left undefined. In your case, the passing mechanism is by reference, so you get what you get. But don't rely on this, rely only on the mode, i.e. the parameter st is undefined upon entering the procedure modify, so when you only write component 2, upon return, only component 2 has been written. Under slight variations, the result of your code might be <garbage character>U<garbage character>. Another thing: Don't rely upon s1'First = 1. Component 2 might not exist. You could call modify like so: X: String (25..30); modify (X); Now s1(2) inevitably will raise Constraint_Error. ____________________________________________________ Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 "Christoph Karl Walter Grein" <AdaMagica@web.de> wrote: > > In your case, the passing mechanism is by reference, so you get what you get. But don't rely on this, rely only on the mode, i.e. the parameter st is undefined...

"==" is NOT TRUE "==", WHY?
[CODE START] x=5; y=8; if (x + y + 1E-15 == 13) a = 3 else a = 8 end [CODE END] When x + y + 1E-15, the code above returns a = 8. When x + y + 1E-16, the code above returns a = 3. Why? Kindly advise. Thanks. "onemilimeter Chen" <onemm@example.com> wrote in message <g7adrj$5tr$1@fred.mathworks.com>... > [CODE START] > x=5; > y=8; > if (x + y + 1E-15 == 13) > a = 3 > else > a = 8 > end > [CODE END] > > When x + y + 1E-15, the code above returns a = 8. > When x + y + 1E-16, the code above returns a = 3. > > Why? ...

why have both "." and "->" ?
I used to remember why c++ needed both ? Could somebody help me here ? For example class A{ f(); }; A* aa; You could do either "aa->f()" or "(*aa).f()". So why does C++ need both operators. Raj "raj" <rajkumar@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:d7fee6d0.0406230748.694b966b@posting.google.com... > I used to remember why c++ needed both ? > Could somebody help me here ? > > For example > > class A{ > f(); > }; > > A* aa; > > You could do either "aa->f()" or "(*aa).f()". So why does C++ need both operators. > > Raj There is a difference I believe that xxxx->yyyy is used if xxxx is a pointer to an object/class and xxxx.yyyyy if xxxx is the object/classs > class A{ > f(); > }; > > A* aa; > > You could do either "aa->f()" or "(*aa).f()". So why does C++ need both operators. IMHO it's simply convenience. Bye, Marco raj wrote: > > You could do either "aa->f()" or "(*aa).f()". So why does C++ need both > operators. The second form involves more typing and requires more effort to read. -- Russell Hanneken eunaarxra@cbobk.pbz Use ROT13 to decode my email address. In message <WOhCc.15115$Wr.8451@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Russell Hanneken <me@privacy.net> writes >raj wrote: >> >> You could do either "aa->f()" or "(*aa...

what does the "+" and the "-" mean?
I recently read what the "+" and the "-" signs mean for compact discs. Of course, a friend has just asked me and I now forget. I've searched all over the place with no results. Anyone know? TIA! .. -------------------------------------- Mike Richter, were you born with "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face? -------------------------------------- roscoe james wrote: > > I recently read what the "+" and the "-" signs mean for compact discs. Of > course, a friend h...

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